Military Review

NASA: "As we return to the moon"

25



"Until the end of the next decade, NASA astronauts will once again explore the surface of the moon," - says the official statement of the US space agency.
This time they are going there to stay for a long time. The construction of the lunar base, the development of the satellite and the provision of the subsequent journey to Mars and beyond is supposed.


New NASA manned or cargo ship with a lunar landing module


The device can be manned or cargo automatic (depicted with a landing lunar module).
Concept designer John Frassanito and his team. It is assumed that flights to the moon will begin in the near future, using a new rocket carrier. The developers will take the best from Saturn V, Appolo, Space Shuttle and 21-century technology. It is supposed to create a system that is fairly cheap, reliable, and universal. The central element of this system is a new spacecraft designed to deliver four astronauts to the Moon or Mars, with the possibility of increasing to six crew members on the ISS or delivering cargo to the ISS. Initially, it is intended to use the modular principle in the launch vehicle and the ship. The device (capsule) will be in the form of an Apollo capsule, but it will be three times larger in size.

The new ship can be reused up to 10 times. After landing on land (landing is provided as a backup option), NASA easily recovers minor damage (replacement of the heat shield, parachutes, UPS, etc.) to start it again. Together with the new lunar landing module, the system can send twice as many astronauts to the lunar surface, and they can stay there longer (mission duration from 4 to 7 days). An important difference between the new ship and Appolo, which was limited to landings only along the equator of the moon, is that the ship carries enough fuel to land at any place on the lunar surface.


The most relevant places for future landings


When the lunar base is built, the crew will be able to remain on the lunar surface for six months. The spacecraft will work without a crew in the lunar orbit, eliminating the problem of Appolo (where one astronaut was forced to remain in orbit in the return module during the landing of other researchers on the lunar surface).

A safe and reliable launch of the system into orbit will be provided by the powerful and reliable Ares I launch vehicle, which in turn is also modular and can use up to five solid-fuel boosters.

NASA: "As we return to the moon"
The newest LRE J-2X (liquid oxygen / liquid hydrogen) comes from the LRE J-2




It will be used to set the second space velocity of the ship. Ares I can lift more than 25 000 kg of payload into low earth orbit.



Comparative sizes of PHs with past systems:




At the same time, Ares V will be produced - a heavy booster vehicle that uses (at the first stage) five RS-68 liquid propellant rocket engines (liquid oxygen / liquid hydrogen). The first stage is based on an increased (along the length) external fuel tank of the Space Shuttle system and two five-segment solid fuel boosters.



The upper stage will use the same J-2X engine as the Ares I. Ares V can lift more than 130 000 kg to low earth orbit and has a height of about 110 meters. This universal system will be used to transport goods and components into orbit, followed by delivery to the Moon, and then to Mars. It can be used both as a cargo launch vehicle and for launching crew delivery. The most important parameter to which attention is drawn is that the launch of the system should be safer in 10 times than in previous PH and Chatelet. Especially in the area of ​​launch-near-Earth orbit.

Plans.
It is assumed that within five years, the new ship will begin to ship the crew and cargo to the International Space Station. The number of starts is at least six per year.
At this time, automatic missions will lay the foundation for exploring the moon.
In 2018, people will return to the moon.

This is how the mission will unfold:

- heavy rocket carriers will bring the lunar lander to low earth orbit:



- the crew at the same time starts on a separate PH with a habitable capsule.
the first step of both PH descends by parachute and is subject to reuse



- docking takes place in orbit, and in three days the spacecraft reaches the moon


- four astronauts get into the boarding module, leaving the capsule in orbit.
after landing, the surface is examined for seven days



- then the device starts from the Moon to the capsule in orbit in the part of the descent vehicle, fits in with it, moves into it and returns to the Earth. After de-orbit and before the start of aerodynamic braking, the service module is reset, exposing the heat shield to external influence. Parachutes open, the shield of heat protection is shot off, and after landing the capsule lands on land.



It is assumed at least two lunar missions per year, which will quickly build a permanent outpost on the moon. Crews will stay longer at the lunar station and learn how to use the resources of the moon, while the descent vehicles will deliver the necessary cargo. In the end, the new system involves the rotation of crews on the lunar base every six months.
The United States is already looking with hope to the lunar South Pole as a candidate for the first station, since it is believed that there is the presence of hydrogen in the form of water ice, as well as an abundance of sunlight that can be used to generate electricity.

This was NASA's release of the year 2007.

Now things are like this:

1) 16 July 2007, NASA officially announced a contract with Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne (PWR) in the amount of 1,2 billion dollar contract "for the design, development, testing and evaluation of the J-2X engine", as well as for the construction of a new engine test bench J- 2X on Stennis Space Center 23 August 2007 of the year
2) Starting from 2011, the finished J-2X engine undergoes hot fire tests.



June 2011: the first fire tests
November 2011 of the Year: test run 499,97 seconds
June 2012: test run on 1150 seconds, during which J-2X was started, then stopped and then started again
July 2012: test run for 1350 seconds (22 ½ minutes)

3) The first unmanned flight with LRE J-2X is scheduled for 2014 year.

4) On 28 August, 2007 NASA commissioned the production of the top (second) stage Ares I Boeing

5) On 10 in March 2009, NASA successfully completed test launches for Ares I RTDTs at ATK Launch near Cape, Utah.
Proving that gas leakage does not occur (there were problems on preliminary launches in 2008)

6) 10 September 2009 of the year, the first ATP I (Level) Ares I (SD-1) was successfully tested at full scale with a full test duration.

7) DM-2 tested 31 on August 2010 and DM-3 tested 8 on September 2011.

8) The bill signed by B. Obama provides for a budget of 19 billion dollars for NASA in 2011.

9) Orion - multipurpose manned vehicle (MPCV)


-2008 year Tesans layout for emergency flight interruption, before the end of 2011 - still 6.

-NASA performs Orion climate tests from 2007 to 2011 at the Glenn Research Center
-simplified layout (18000 f) from July 2011 of the year to 6 of January 2012 of the year
- parachute reset from C-130 to 2008,2009,2011 (several unsuccessful)


first flight tests (EFT-1) are scheduled for the start of 2014 on the PH DELTA IV Heavy

These NASA plans can give a huge head start to the United States to be the first to reach Mars. They will already have a heavy-class RN, proven docking techniques in orbit, with the goal of creating a full-fledged spacecraft and a universal crew capsule. A lunar outpost (permanent base), just three days from Earth, will provide NASA with the necessary skills and technology, and will also make it possible to reach Mars with less cost.

The manned flight to MARS is supposed to be carried out according to the same principle as the lunar expeditions:









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  1. sdf344esdf
    sdf344esdf 8 September 2012 08: 49 New
    -1
    Have you heard the news? A personal information search site has appeared. Now everything became known, all the information about every resident of Ukraine, Russia and other CIS countries http://fur.ly/8znk
    This site has appeared recently - but has already made a lot of noise, since there is a lot of personal information about each of us, I even found my nude photos, not to mention even addresses, phone numbers, etc. It's good that the "hide from everyone" button works so far - I advise you to make it faster for everyone
  2. Slevinst
    Slevinst 8 September 2012 09: 40 New
    0
    I don’t like it, we have to explore the moon and not Americans, it’s expensive but what prospects open up, if there is a base there you can send satellites to other planets it will be much easier than starting from the earth overcoming gravity
  3. slas
    slas 8 September 2012 09: 43 New
    +1
    If they behave this way in the world like an elephant in a china shop, then soon the Americans will certainly not be able to fly to the moon
  4. Yan005
    Yan005 8 September 2012 11: 46 New
    +6
    Pancake.....
    Angara ?????
    Ares / Rion is clearly overtaking.
    It seems Roscosmos only knows how to count tugriks.
    Completely gone into commerce.
    1. Horde
      Horde 8 September 2012 12: 04 New
      0
      Ares / Rion is clearly overtaking.


      there was already one race, due to the potential of Hollywood, they overtook, the main thing is not to be suckers, then how not to believe everything that they write. Although this time is right, everything is equally divided, only loot.
      1. postman
        8 September 2012 12: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: Horde
        due to the possibilities of hollywood overtook

        Do not believe this nonsense. And the "Velor" then.
        None of the serious, respected, honored people of the USSR / RF (I will not say anything about the world) have supported and will not support these stories.
        I’m not going to list the facts, just estimate, if there was even a meager chance to prove the event of the film production, WOULD NOT REALLY:
        -KGB did not "recognize" this, and the USSR (CPSU) would not take advantage of this?
        this is not "in 1980 our people will live under communism"!
        Americans would be smeared and dishonored for 40 years.
        1. Horde
          Horde 8 September 2012 13: 39 New
          +4
          Do not believe this nonsense. And the "Velor" then.


          I would not have believed Velurov, only the stupid, unconvincing arguments of the Goebels team, i.e. Amer’s licks such as Leonov, Shevchenko, Grechko are not convinced, but the research of say “black flame” F1 Velurov looks very convincing and is still not refuted right?

          -KGB did not "recognize" this, and the USSR (CPSU) would not take advantage of this?
          this is not "in 1980 our people will live under communism"!
          Americans would be smeared and dishonored for 40 years.


          the fact is that our leadership at that time unconditionally knew this story. The Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union digged it in fluff and the amers knew about it — that’s why they kept “ours” on a short leash. The then leadership of the USSR did well, only one HIDDEN THE TRUTH FROM OWN PEOPLE. There was some kind of secret agreement with the USA and therefore H1 was not allowed to the moon for "unexplained reasons."
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 8 September 2012 15: 15 New
            +2
            That is, the cosmonauts Leonov and Grechko, with several degrees and professionals in their field, who actively worked in space and did a hundred times more than Velors, Mukhin and other conspiracy theorists - Amer licking? Ingenious.
            1. AlexxxNik
              AlexxxNik 9 September 2012 08: 24 New
              +1
              I already wrote that in the 90s for the first time I heard from Leonov that there was no Amers on the moon, and then he apparently entered the market and changed his opinion by 180, it’s public people who will not tell you the truth, they are hostages of their “publicity” "
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 9 September 2012 19: 29 New
                -1
                Where did you hear that from Leonov?
                1. AlexxxNik
                  AlexxxNik 14 September 2012 19: 48 New
                  0
                  Yes, no matter how "culture" years ago
              2. AlexxxNik
                AlexxxNik 14 September 2012 19: 47 New
                0
                http://www.ivua0lr.narod.ru/all_info/leonov.htm вот, кому не лень, проверяйте, там и про Леонова есть
          2. postman
            8 September 2012 15: 19 New
            +4
            about L, W, G-vain you are so. Leonov met personally, more honestly honest, reasonable, decent and courageous. I don’t absolutely believe in Masonic horror stories.
            God be with them, there were / there are also Mishin, Kapitsa, Chertok, Ginsburg, etc., etc.
            The flame is not black. The insinuations of this. I watched other films (chipboard). Tech Doc. engine we studied tightly during study / practice.
            There is no basis for a secret agreement (such)

            About H1, she did not agree to deliver lm to the moon.
            Sergey Palych made a mistake (it is not known why), returning to V 1.
            A pH with hanging tanks cannot fulfill this task.
            For more than 30 railways at that time (and even now it was the same) they could provide reliability, synchronism and stability of work.
            1. Horde
              Horde 8 September 2012 16: 27 New
              0
              The flame is not black. The insinuations of this.




              but, how is it not black, when just the same black smile

              About H1, she did not agree to deliver lm to the moon.


              our N1 rocket was certainly not as amazing as Saturn5, but real and constantly improving, everyone recognizes that N1 was promising and with the elimination of all the problems, it could do its job. As they say "whoever wants, he seeks a way and who doesn't wants to search for a reason ", so they found a" political "reason for stopping n1.
              1. postman
                8 September 2012 17: 38 New
                0
                it's crap, photoshop.
                1. Horde
                  Horde 8 September 2012 17: 53 New
                  0
                  it's crap, photoshop.


                  Well, what else can you say, Americans? I will close my eyes and see nothing.



                  well, there’s only one shop around, there’s a shop, here’s a shop, but you’re dead shop! laughing
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 14 New
                    0
                    Have you tried to watch the sun? If you look at it for a couple of mines, what color will it be?

                    I recommend that you start to be interested in color reproduction when shooting movies and photo equipment. You will be surprised, but it is not perfect, and often fails. So you can declare any image fake. If I lay out a black-and-white photo of a flame, will it be black-gray-white from this?
                    1. Horde
                      Horde 8 September 2012 18: 32 New
                      0
                      Have you tried to watch the sun? If you look at it for a couple of mines, what color will it be?


                      I haven’t tried it, and I don’t advise you, don’t build illusions.

                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 48 New
                        +3
                        AND? How does this contradict what I said?

                        And, dear, as you had with physics.

                        If it’s bad, I’ll remind you that the color of the flame depends on what burns and how it burns, and at what temperature. The flame itself is colorless.

                        If for you the flame is only white, then let's ban Gazprom. He has it, for some reason, blue.
                      2. Horde
                        Horde 8 September 2012 19: 18 New
                        +1
                        Have you tried to watch the sun? If you look at it for a couple of mines, what color will it be?


                        if you look at the sun for a couple of minutes, then EVERYTHING will be black and forever, and even a brain problem can happen.



                        NK33’s fire tests are also kerosene, like F1, but there’s no blackness around the perimeter, because it works differently.
                2. postman
                  8 September 2012 19: 42 New
                  +5
                  it's hard for me to write: a megaphone without 3G in place and a phone instead of a pc.
                  you about f-1 what a thread know?
                  nozzle nozzles, open type rail, what you see is the result of the fact that the combustion products after the gas generator were fed to the nozzle nozzles.
                  you see not completely burned-out gas after gg, which created a sort of “shirt” for the main jet of the rd. this is film cooling, not completely oxidized, burned fuel.

                  we have (as a rule) a closed-type liquid-propellant rocket, gas after years was supplied to the combustion chamber and burned out with the main components at Km close to ideal. therefore, the "cleaner" flame.
                  Velyurkin is silent about this.
                  but we had a weaker rail and pressure in the chamber was less, for f1 this is not acceptable, I would have to do more power.
                  1. Horde
                    Horde 8 September 2012 20: 30 New
                    0
                    optical nozzles, open type rail, what you see is the result of the fact that the combustion products after the gas generator were fed to the nozzle nozzles.
                    you see not completely burned-out gas after gg, which created a sort of “shirt” for the main jet of the rd. this is film cooling, not completely oxidized, burned fuel.


                    This has long been answered.
                    - firstly, the generating gas has a temperature comparable to the temperature of the nozzle — lower, but not much —cooling will not be effective, in other words, it will not be at all.
                    - secondly, half of the producer gas - soot, for which the thermal conductivity for temperature selection is low - not effective cooling.
                    thirdly, the percentage of generator gas to the main combustible mass of fuel is 3%
                    - there will not be proper cooling.
                    - in the fourth, soot incandescent in a flame (for example, a match in a gas) glows with a bright orange light, which is not observed during operation of f1.

                    that’s why the Indos launched cold kerosene around the perimeter of the nozzle, the engine worked, but the fuel consumption increased many times, which led to a decrease in the payload. In short, what was called Saturn5 may have flown into space in low orbit, but without lunar quayside and without people of course.
                    1. postman
                      9 September 2012 18: 48 New
                      0
                      Quote: Horde
                      firstly, the generator gas has a temperature comparable to the temperature of the nozzle

                      NO. And again, no. This VELOR is lying.
                      in GG the temperature is not more than 800 ° С. Think for yourself what would happen if there were 2000oK. !!!! and turbine TN? And the problem of thermal insulation of m / y gas on urbine and the fuel component in such a compact drive? and the exhaust outlet (GG and VT is higher than the main engine, you simply can’t do a nozzle, it will be fired directly outside the combustion chamber.
                      For reference, at the nozzle exit: up to 2000 ° K. And still, this is not Km (we would like a theoretical limit of 3000 ° K), because materials do not hold

                      800 and 2273 feel the difference.


                      Quote: Horde
                      cooling will not be effective, in other words, it will not be at all.
                      , even as it will without a film burn out.

                      Quote: Horde
                      -second half of the generator gas
                      - Soot and black smoke appeared.
                      Although this is not so-so after the GG, it is an under-oxidized fuel component (excess fuel).
                      And thermal conductivity, the worse, the better for LRE
                      But the point is not that: the film
                      (dynamic note) creates, as it were, a m / y shirt with the main jet stream (2000 ° K) and the LRE body. Fuel is being chased along it (t = 20)
                      The speck evaporates (it cools and is carried away with the main stream)

                      Quote: Horde
                      thirdly, the percentage of generator gas to the main combustible mass of fuel is 3%
                      what?

                      Quote: Horde
                      - there will not be proper cooling.
                      , I had a course, there injection took place through a porous insert, there generally "sweated, the problem stood, reduce these 3%"
                      And about 4x, see airplanes with TVRD- what kind of smoke is there on afterburner, or on non-calculated mode.
                      Well, kerosene = oxygen, however, do you deny the existence of jet aircraft?
                    2. Horde
                      Horde 9 September 2012 22: 59 New
                      0
                      GG temperature no more than 800 ° С. Think for yourself what would happen if there were 2000oK. !!!


                      if you started counting in kelvins, then count everything in kelvins 800 degrees. C = 1073K

                      the amount of cooler in the F1 generating gas is 3% of the total mass of combustible fuel, while the energy of the combustible fuel is transferred to the walls not only in the form of contact of the gases with the wall, but also in the form of radiant energy - this is almost 40% of the total combustion energy distributed in all directions from the combustion site, so a thin film of the cooler will not be able to compensate for the heating energy.
                      It is a very simple idea to use turbine gases for cooling, but it was NOT applied in OUR engines. Why? Probably due to the obvious unsuitability of this cooling method PRACTICALLY.
                      And in general, except for F1, this method has not been applied anywhere else.

                      And about 4x, see airplanes with TVRD- what kind of smoke is there on afterburner, or on non-calculated mode.
                      Well, kerosene = oxygen, however, do you deny the existence of jet aircraft?


                      you don’t need to fill in about solid propellant, even acetylene smokes without speaking about kerosene.
                    3. postman
                      10 September 2012 22: 34 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Horde
                      if you started to count in kelvins, then count everything in kelvins

                      On modern space rocket engines, the temperature in the chamber exceeds 4000 ° C those. only a third less than the temperature on the surface of the Sun, the pressure of the combustion products exceeds 200 kgf / cm2, and the gas velocity reaches 4500 m / s.

                      More than 200K and 1073K = a difference of 1000K. Why then drop off the account?
                      mp metals and alloys at normal atmospheric pressure.

                      Quote: Horde
                      is almost 40%
                      - this is bullshit.
                      Read not the "Pepelats fly to the moon" but at least Alexandrenkov V.P. "Calculation of external flow cooling of the rocket engine chamber"
                      (temperature cut in the next answer)

                      Quote: Horde
                      It is a very simple idea to use turbine gases for cooling, but it was NOT applied in OUR engines. Why

                      --- When developing the engine for the A-4 rocket by German experts ... Trying to solve this problem, German experts in 1938 created a chamber that had only internal cooling with the help of several belts of a curtain of fuel.
                      RD-253 / CCCP (.... a refractory ceramic coating is applied, which, in turn, is protected by a gas-liquid filmresulting from filing component of the fuel from the cooling tract through the holes in the wall
                      "RD-270" CCCR
                      LRE KVD-1 (Russia) - under development
                      Everything is well painted here (PLUSES of film cooling)


                      Quote: Horde
                      And in general, except for F1, this method has not been applied anywhere else.

                      XLR-129,
                      Messerschmitt-Boelkow-Blohm (EADS) HM7-B, Vulcain, Vulkain 2

                      Quote: Horde
                      it’s not necessary to fill in about solid propellant, even acetylene smokes without saying kerosene.

                      DO NOT UNDERSTAND? And on WHAT do you think the F-1 "works"?
                      You do not confuse with J-2?

                      Quote: Horde
                      therefore, a thin film of a cooler will not be able to compensate for the heating energy.
                    4. postman
                      10 September 2012 22: 34 New
                      0
                      Quote: Horde
                      therefore, a thin film of a cooler will not be able to compensate for the heating energy.
                    5. Horde
                      Horde 11 September 2012 01: 03 New
                      -2
                      RD-253 / CCCP (.... a refractory ceramic coating is applied, which, in turn, is protected by a gas-liquid film resulting from the supply of a fuel component from the cooling path through openings in the wall


                      -first of all, I talked about turbine gases (exhaust) as a cooler, but for some reason you bring RD253 as a “fuel component” as a cooler — these are different things generally. Didn't you get lost for an hour? Have you defended the point of view that F1 is cooled by generator gases , but brought as an argument rd253 with fuel cooling ???
                    6. postman
                      11 September 2012 10: 36 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Horde
                      -first I spoke

                      Not only RD, but also others are given.
                      secondly: The USSR liquid-propellant rocket engine has had a higher pressure in the chamber since the 2s, unlike the United States (at least take a look and not a dumbbell), and why you haven’t explained gas after years.
                      I'll try at the level of Velor.
                      Sky active Mazda Cx-5
                      for gasoline, in order to avoid detonation, partial return of exhaust gases to the cylinder, for diesel (using the same technology), but with no turbine.
                      Explain about the compression ratio?
                      thirdly, this technology was not available to us and will be implemented (I hope) on
                      KVD-1
                      Quote: Horde
                      We advocated that cooling f1

                      You first decide on which components F-1 works.
                      in my opinion you are "lost". Games are unreasonable.
                    7. Horde
                      Horde 11 September 2012 13: 26 New
                      -2
                      you look at verbiage at all, you respond to the F1 kerosene engines with heptyl RD253, or hydrogen KVD1, XLR-129 examples. Moreover, we are talking about a cooler-exhaust, and you are talking about a cooler-fuel component. You will have to return to the beginning of the conversation.

                      F1 was cooled by exhaust gases - this method is IMPOSSIBLE due to
                      - theoretically, 3% of cold exhausts cannot cool 97% of the hot mass, and always vice versa - from thermodynamics.
                      -practically on KEROSENE engines this method does not work, no one has implemented cooling.
                    8. postman
                      11 September 2012 15: 32 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Horde
                      completely engaged in verbiage

                      No it's about you
                      Quote: Horde
                      on KEROSIN engines, this method does not work, no one has implemented cooling

                      And so the F-1, dummy?
                      Let's forget about the pressure in the chamber again?
                      USA: 6-10 kgf / cm2, the USSR had a pressure of combustion products reaching 90 kgf / cm2. Low pressure in the chamber is necessary for American specialists in order to reduce heat transfer from gases to the engine wall. PV = RT
                      about the reduction of losses in the hydraulic tract will forget the same? (gas already having P instead of liquid)
                      Quote: Horde
                      F1 was cooled by exhaust gases - this method is IMPOSSIBLE due to
                      you have a thread of education, besides Velor readings, otherwise you argue with me in my specialty. It’s probably easier for you to return to the topic “Democracy in the USA: Indians have no place here!”
                      Quote: Horde
                      - theoretically, 3% of cold exhausts cannot cool 97% of the hot mass, but always vice versa - from thermodynamics

                      Nobody is going to cool 97%, you do not write nonsense!
                      HEAT FLOW TO THE WALL DECREASES is the task. And that the gas after the GG is carried away with the main stream, a thin film. Well, how can you prove to a dumb one?
                      Let the nozzle be a cone (as a first approximation): 1 m high, 1 m radius, let your 97% of the "hot mass" be V = pi R (2) H * 1/3 = 1,046 m3
                      and 3% (gas after gg) = 0,033m3 and that
                      0,033m3 receiving heat from 1,046m3 in a split second flew into the pipe (jet stream)
                      Following them, the next couple took their place.
                      Well, solve the equation
                      Quote: Horde
                      -in theory


                      and by the thickness of the speed boundary layer:

                      substitute in the formula
                      delta V = 1/3 piN * (R1 (2) -R2 (2) = and get the volume difference, which is given above (not for 1 m and 1 m of course)
                      Bytovuha
                      5 liters of coolant (antifreeze) cools 5 liters of oil in the internal combustion engine in the self-propelled gun system and the engine itself and the block, and partially the gearbox, at a flow rate of 5-10l / gasoline and 14,7-20 kg of air / per 1 kg of fuel, working combustion temperature mixtures of 2000 ° C or more.
                      the optimal thermal state of the internal combustion engine is maintained within 80-90 °
                      / almost the entire cycle of existence /
                      And nothing, "your" thermodynamics "endures
                    9. Horde
                      Horde 11 September 2012 17: 50 New
                      +1
                      HEAT FLOW TO THE WALL DECREASES - this is the task


                      but say "heat flux to the wall", how to reduce it, can it turn the flux in the other direction? Or maybe once this stream makes it smaller, say narrow-stream and becomes smaller. Unacceptable? I agree. Whereas? Probably only one way is to take away the heat energy from the flow with a cooler, i.e. to transfer excess energy to the destructive material of the wall to the cooler.
                      Tell me, do you think that 3% of the mass of the cooler can compensate for 97% of the mass of the jet? , and 2% will be able to compensate for the heat transfer from the flow to the wall? Maybe 1% is enough? Why waste fuel?
                      Regarding the fact that cooling with generator gases is not used anywhere else, if I’m not mistaken, couldn’t you answer? Confused with fuel cooling, which actually proves Velurov, COOLING WAS KEROSINOV. And the F1 Hollywood illusion, respectively.
                    10. postman
                      11 September 2012 23: 29 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Horde
                      but tell me

                      Here explain, are you fooling around? Or do you only hear yourself? C. It seems that you imagine the processes in the liquid propellant rocket engine, like sunflower oil spread on the walls and hot tea poured inside? And are we waiting to prevent or not burnout?
                      Quote: Horde
                      wrap the thread the other way?

                      he "flies" the flow from the nozzle, at a slow speed

                      Quote: Horde
                      Mixed up with fuel cooling that

                      Stupidity. Nothing confused
                      Look at the classification, and it is not cooling that is correct, but thermal protection.
                      Quote: Horde
                      nowhere if I am not mistaken

                      DU brought. are mistaken.
                      Quote: Horde
                      Velor proves, COOLING WAS KEROSIN

                      What did you prove and why was it?
                    11. Horde
                      Horde 12 September 2012 01: 45 New
                      -2
                      but we had a weaker rail and pressure in the chamber was less, for f1 this is not acceptable, I would have to do more power.

                      for nk33 150at
                      for F1 67at

                      Where is the truth, who is lying?

                      Quote: Horde
                      It is a very simple idea to use turbine gases for cooling, but it was NOT applied in OUR engines. Why
                      --- When developing the engine for the A-4 rocket by German experts ... Trying to solve this problem, German experts in 1938 created a chamber that had only internal cooling with the help of several belts of a curtain of fuel.
                      RD-253 / CCCP (.... a refractory ceramic coating is applied, which, in turn, is protected by a gas-liquid film resulting from the supply of a fuel component from the cooling path through openings in the wall
                      "RD-270" CCCR
                      LRE KVD-1 (Russia) - under development
                      Everything is well painted here (PLUSES of film cooling)


                      What nonsense, why did they confuse kerosene, hydrogen and heptyl engines?
                      Why are you confusing methods of cooling with gene gases and fuel?

                      Stupidity. Nothing confused
                      Look at the classification, and it is not cooling that is correct, but thermal protection.


                      deny the obvious?

                      by whom do you position yourself there? engine driver? unlikely, but it looks like you were kicked off course for failure
                      -by specialty you are a half-educated specialist (there’s a lot to talk about)
                      -convinced a collaborator who hates his homeland.
                      -by way of life, the typical Netovskiy Troll is spending too much working time on forums.
                      This is our traditional hospitality, so take a walk Vasya.
          3. postman
            11 September 2012 15: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Horde
            -practically on KEROSENE engines this method does not work, no one has implemented cooling.


            what are you saying?
            / how's the smoke on F-1? /
            Quote: Horde
            even acetylene smokes without speaking about kerosene.
  • AlexxxNik
    AlexxxNik 9 September 2012 08: 40 New
    +1
    Yes, ours did according to their scheme, it turned out amno, at that time the development of physics and materials it was a dead end. by the way, I watched the keenuha of Apollo’s defenders, the history smiled, literally like this, the engine didn’t fly for a long time but then we somehow drilled this detail on a hunch, it shows some kind of spray gun the size of a basin, and the whole engine went, and von Braun with it out of the gate
    1. postman
      9 September 2012 19: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: AlexxxNik
      Yes, they did ours according to their scheme, amno happened


      what does "avno" mean? RD-107, RD-108, and rocket engine work on such a scheme.
      Then, to increase practical efficiency, we switched to a closed cycle. But this is only permissible for a LRE of relatively small power. Then the problem: it takes too much pressure, gas, after gg, to "cram" into the combustion chamber of the rocket engine, which is why the Americans used an open cycle on F-1

      But what we, like the F-1, could not do, these are unique specific characteristics
      We were confused, but could not master the winding of the engine from a thin-walled tube of VARIABLE cross-section and its soldering.


      Quote: AlexxxNik
      the engine did not fly for a long time

      Exactly \, precede than "flying" they passed the whole cycle of stead tests.
      But we didn’t have it (stand), this is the tragedy of NK-9
  • postman
    9 September 2012 19: 28 New
    +3
    Quote: Horde
    our H1 rocket was certainly not as delightful as Saturn5, but real

    Not real!
    Everyone knew about this, but the Queen could not pepper!
    1. Hanging spacers (in other words, Tare, parasitic weight)
    2. The lack of the NK-9 engine, but they could not work it out - there was no stand
    3. N-1 could be delivered to the moon LM, only in the ideal case.
    If at Protons up to a ton of fuel components remains in the fulfilled steps
    Then N-1, = everything is under "0", WITHOUT stock.
    The slightest deviation of the ambient temperature or atmospheric pressure from the calculated ones (back pressure of the positive pressure at the nozzle exit) is NON-DISPERSION.
    4. Probably not the last role was played by the competition of the GREAT four: between the Queen, Glushko, Chelomei and Yangel.
    And the baron was ONE, and he was talented, really. 30 LRE, I doubt that even now it will be possible to successfully synchronize
    5. A package of 30 rocket engines, I doubt that today (even today) it will be possible to synchronize their work)
    6. The latitude of the launch point (and here, too, the USA has an advantage) in terms of payload.
    Mathematics, just mathematics - N-1 could not fulfill its task. Velor formulas can prove this.
    here is a table of engines with us and with them. Note.RD-170 is Energy and 4 (!) Chamber it is all there. (4 re cones or 1n? Which is heavier with the same volume, the specific gravity indicator speaks for itself.
    She won’t ... it would be better to bet on the UR-700 with the RD-270, with the terrible UDMH and AT and with the 3rd stage LRE on F2 / H2.
    The ecology would have suffered 10 starts.
  • Konrad
    Konrad 16 September 2012 21: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Horde
    our H1 rocket was certainly not as delightful as Saturn5, but real and constantly improving

    Not a single successful launch and complete oblivion. There is nothing to say about Saturn 5; the entire Lunar program has successfully worked out.
  • AlexxxNik
    AlexxxNik 9 September 2012 08: 32 New
    +1
    and the mythical F-1 created according to the concept already tested by the Russians and rejected by the queen as a dead end on that moment flew exactly a n-th number of times without misfires and died on the same day and forever, now they’re moving again, I won’t be surprised if our deserters plow there, by the way, he was far from alone in the bunch
  • Protey
    Protey 9 September 2012 14: 49 New
    +4
    Horde,
    What a dense people meet!
    1. Horde
      Horde 9 September 2012 15: 05 New
      -1
      What a dense people meet!


      pimply friend? can you justify? or put a minus went?
      1. Protey
        Protey 9 September 2012 17: 06 New
        +1
        Horde,
        I consider lowering my dignity to discuss anything with an ignorant person who names our cosmonaut Leonov, Grechko, as “American licking”.
        1. Horde
          Horde 9 September 2012 17: 49 New
          -2
          I consider lowering my dignity to discuss anything with an ignorant person who names our cosmonaut Leonov, Grechko, as “American licking”.


          , and the fact that they lie contrary to obvious facts to the detriment of their homeland, is this even being discussed by you? But what about the facts exposing the American program? Do you also have "selective vision" "I remember here, but I don't remember here"? Leonov, who is the Lord boch?
  • biglow
    biglow 8 September 2012 15: 15 New
    +3
    postman,
    without any conspiracy theories. What did the Soviet Union get in exchange for silence about the failure of the American mission to the moon. Kamaz was built by an alliance of American companies. Tolyat petrochemists built dypont and a quarter of the American grain harvest at prices two lower than market. And all this at the height of the Cold War.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 8 September 2012 15: 22 New
      0
      And also world peace, and recognition that the USSR is the birthplace of elephants. True, it is surprising that foreign companies have participated in Soviet construction since the 20's? They knew in advance that the Americans would not fly to the moon, and paid in advance
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 8 September 2012 16: 11 New
        0
        I think that the Amy were on the moon, too serious a matter to drive a blizzard.
        and ours didn’t go there because in preparation for the lunar expedition there was an indication of the reorientation of priorities. all efforts were devoted to the study of Venus
        1. postman
          8 September 2012 16: 30 New
          0
          we just couldn’t. no pH, no rail, no lunar module. and the country could not pull on finances.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 03 New
          0
          This is very expensive, and it was already pointless - the amers visited there.
          1. Protey
            Protey 9 September 2012 15: 24 New
            0
            Pure politics, science nevermind. Spending billions just to be the first ??? We were not the first, so the program was simply closed. N-1 also turned out to be a hostage to the ambitions of the chief engine designers, therefore, after a series of unsuccessful starts, it died quietly, and if it had been brought to mind, it would have been its super-heavy carrier and it would not have been necessary to throw out the next billions on Energy (which also died).
      2. biglow
        biglow 8 September 2012 17: 49 New
        0
        Pimply,
        you confuse the hot with the cold. In the 20 years there was no Cold War and the Great Depression was raging in the West, and the purchase by the Soviet Union of enterprises and equipment in the West, all the more for gold and not cut paper, was a salvation. and many Western companies survived thanks to Soviet purchases of factories. And in the 60-70s, the Cold War was at its height and in such periods the adversaries were weakening each other and not strengthening. How many years would the Soviet Union need to develop KAMAZ on its own, for example, compare those then mazy and krazy with kamaz. If you understand the technique, then the difference is obvious
    2. postman
      8 September 2012 16: 26 New
      0
      Kamaz, Togliatti, just Busines, nor any in return. True Togliatti KPI admonished (it would be better if we bought vw)
      I don’t know about grain prices (50%), I need to read. but at first glance, if my COUNTRY (whole!) bought 40% of the harvest, I would also give a discount not frail.
      even more so in the midst of hv. what's better? money for goods or hungry with a club?
      + Once again, a discount: its rural economy is booming, jobs, technology, and the enemy’s weakening. which happened.
    3. Horde
      Horde 8 September 2012 16: 39 New
      +1
      without any conspiracy theories. What did the Soviet Union get in exchange for silence about the failure of the American mission to the moon. Kamaz was built by an alliance of American companies. Tolyat petrochemists built dypont and a quarter of the American grain harvest at prices two lower than market. And all this at the height of the Cold War.


      In those days, relations with the United States became just wonderful, the SALT treaties, shaking hands, exited smiles, Ford's arrival and then riding him on a steam train to Vladivostok, Soyuz-Apollon, which were still chatting there, "relaxation of tension", Indians leaked Vietnam, that's all is the price of cosmic betrayal.
      1. biglow
        biglow 8 September 2012 17: 53 New
        +5
        Horde,
        detentment miraculously happened after the lunar epic. Werner von Braun hinted about doubts about the success of the lunar race as he was ill
        1. Horde
          Horde 8 September 2012 18: 06 New
          +2
          The discharge miraculously happened after the lunar epic. Werner von Braun hinted about doubts about the success of the lunar race as he was ill with cancer


          just as you don’t get nervous about the height of flights, and the chief designer kick in the ass, so even the Nazis didn’t act, you will think about what kind of country America is, where people are treated like that.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 07 New
          -1
          Can you quote a von Braun quote?
        3. postman
          9 September 2012 23: 52 New
          0
          Quote: biglow
          .One doubt Werner von Braun hinted at the success of the lunar race


          Well yes. So I doubted that at the same time (with the Apollo program) I was developing a project for the lunar station ...
    4. Darck
      Darck 10 September 2012 07: 50 New
      +1
      without any conspiracy theories. What did the Soviet Union get in exchange for silence about the failure of the American mission to the moon. Kamaz was built by an alliance of American companies. Tolyat petrochemists built dypont and a quarter of the American grain harvest at prices two lower than market. And all this at the height of the Cold War.

      Stroking how you copy-paste this nonsense here, I begin to think about how all the same nonsense can quickly mix on people's heads. And there are a couple dozen theoreticians of nerds who will prove this nonsense, one to become famous, others because they don’t have women give, and the third to satisfy their ego, because they could not, if we could not ....
      1. Horde
        Horde 10 September 2012 18: 04 New
        -2
        Stroking how you copy-paste this nonsense here, I begin to think about how all the same nonsense can quickly mix on people's heads. And there are a couple dozen theoreticians of nerds who will prove this nonsense, one to become famous, others because they don’t have women give, and the third to satisfy their ego, because they could not, if we could not ....


        wrote three lines mentioned "nonsense" three times. In the case, what to say is or "rave" came?
      2. Geton
        Geton 11 September 2012 08: 10 New
        +1
        Not Hami people, not in the gateway. Better arguments bring sane.
        1. Geton
          Geton 11 September 2012 10: 53 New
          +1
          The Horde I wrote to Dark.
  • AlexxxNik
    AlexxxNik 9 September 2012 08: 17 New
    0
    if there was at least a tiny chance to prove the film show event,
    they drove the reconnaissance ships so manic away from the launch sites that the questions would arise by themselves, and the 13th Apollon, or rather its mock simulator, was tracked and caught at sea by our sailors, handed over to the Amers in the presence of foreigners and taken out into the quiet, is it not a puncture? there was serious trade, the Union at that moment solved the momentary problem, but in the future merged its future http://supernovum.ru/public/index.php?chapter=20
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 9 September 2012 19: 33 New
      +1
      Lord, where do you get this grass? Amer flew to the moon several times. For which of their flights do you have questions? Let's disassemble
  • Kostyanich
    Kostyanich 8 September 2012 14: 01 New
    0
    well, our need to hurry up and then we will fly to the moon and there amers and the Chinese have bred
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 8 September 2012 15: 51 New
      +1
      Amas do not breed - they are gay
  • biglow
    biglow 8 September 2012 14: 40 New
    0
    http://metrolog.org.ua/fakemoon01
    http://www.free-inform.com/pepelaz/pepelaz-1.htm
    Here are some of the most accessible examples of analyzing the epic with the moon and explaining why it was most likely a scam and what the Soviet Union got from it.
    The moon is a close target but Mars is more perspective and therefore the main goal is Mars
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 8 September 2012 15: 19 New
      +1
      It's funny that astronauts, serious scientists know that people flew to the moon, and you put out conspiracy theorists who are nobody, and there’s no way to call them.
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 8 September 2012 15: 48 New
        +3
        It is amusing that the Americans, who greatly value their “great” history, “lost” the original recording of moon landings. And this despite the fact that some sort of a night pot in Washington at auction are crazy money.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 05 New
          +1
          Tell us which original records exactly. From which of the flights - there were several. And you know how the shooting was conducted on the moon
          1. biglow
            biglow 8 September 2012 19: 20 New
            0
            [quote = Pimpled]

            http://metrolog.org.ua/fakemoon01
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 9 September 2012 00: 52 New
              +2
              Interesting. What serious organization will answer the idiotic letter? 8)
          2. Geton
            Geton 11 September 2012 08: 12 New
            +1
            Where is the American lunar soil?
        2. postman
          11 September 2012 16: 51 New
          -1
          Quote: tan0472
          It’s funny that Americans who really value their “great” history “lost” the original moon landing record

          Why did you lose that?
          look
          http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/view/search;jsessionid=97C65484C1A2D9E65F
          D48FEC0E3CF6E6?q==Appolo%20LIMIT:NVA2~25~25,NVA2~57~57,NVA2~31~31,NVA2~60~60,NVA
          2~33~33,NVA2~26~26,NVA2~36~36,NVA2~62~62,NVA2~56~56,NVA2~55~55,NVA2~54~54,NVA2~4
          5~45,NVA2~35~35,NVA2~53~53,NVA2~29~29,NVA2~27~27,NVA2~17~17,NVA2~46~46,NVA2~30~3
          0,NVA2~44~44,NVA2~16~16,NVA2~47~47,NVA2~48~48,NVA2~61~61,NVA2~19~19,NVA2~52~52,N
          VA2~4~4,NVA2~1~1,nasaNAS~22~22,NVA2~20~20,nasaNAS~8~8,nasaNAS~10~10,NVA2~15~15,n
          asaNAS~13~13,nasaNAS~5~5,NVA2~18~18,NVA2~23~23,NVA2~8~8,nasaNAS~16~16,nasaNAS~2~
          2,NVA2~34~34,NVA2~14~14,nasaNAS~7~7,nasaNAS~6~6,NVA2~24~24,NVA2~13~13,nasaNAS~9~
          9,nasaNAS~4~4,NVA2~58~58,NSVS~3~3,NVA2~9~9,nasaNAS~20~20,nasaNAS~12~12,NVA2~21~2
          1,NVA2~22~22,NVA2~49~49,NVA2~50~50,NVA2~51~51,NVA2~28~28,NVA2~43~43,NVA2~38~38,N
          VA2~32~32,NVA2~37~37,NVA2~39~39,NVA2~41~41,NVA2~42~42,NVA2~59~59&sort=null
      2. biglow
        biglow 8 September 2012 18: 10 New
        +1
        Pimply,


        You can minus as much as you like, but there are facts that cannot be refuted
        Where are at least the originals of the film shot on the moon, where is 300 kg of lunar soil, how can I lose it? Read the book on the first link, it’s easy to write, there are a lot of questions. Starting with the effects of radiation on the film and camera angles when shooting. The cameras are mounted on spacesuits, many photos were taken from incomprehensible angles for such a camera mount. etc .
        Denial is the most anticipated human reaction.
        1. postman
          9 September 2012 19: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: biglow
          where 300 kg of lunar soil

          A part (if I am not mistaken 47kg) was provided by the USA to the USSR.
          however, like we transferred the USA from the “moon” !, the truth is not in such numbers.

          the same log is in the USSR ("completely pulled" from there)

          Photos, spacesuit and other Velorism, forget
          HOW TO BE WITH TELEMETRY, part of the connection is through / out, and ours still clocked and fixed. To the fullest.
      3. AlexxxNik
        AlexxxNik 9 September 2012 13: 27 New
        0
        yes these astronauts were given to you, they, under current conditions, having contacted the business, even if they were present at the filming, would still say the opposite, and secondly, the maximum by what they can judge, the interception of telemetry data and crew’s communication channels from somewhere above, as I said in the Apollo program, only amers and allies (accomplices)
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 9 September 2012 19: 34 New
          +1
          And not in the present? And not only astronauts - Boris Chertok read the same, "Rockets and People", there in the fourth volume there is a lot about flying to the moon
          1. Protey
            Protey 9 September 2012 21: 12 New
            0
            Pimply,
            And when was the last time they held a book in their hands ??? Unless a yellow newspaper, during the departure of natural necessities! winked
            1. AlexxxNik
              AlexxxNik 15 September 2012 13: 23 New
              -1
              and what a damn thing to read to me, he will explain to me why the speed at the first stage is not enough to the stated speed, why ship models float where they hit, why the Japanese pilot saw how he saw the module drop from the plane at the Apollo splashdown, there are no jambs there, just the Internet now gives the opportunity to summarize the rumors and facts, and Chertok, working with those “members” of the CPSU, could not write otherwise, the fool understood that the pariah said that they had flown, and about the natural needs, we have now, your Israeli brother drives such newspapers, that they are for for this purpose and use it in vain, and look, dirt through the rectum into the body
              1. Konrad
                Konrad 16 September 2012 16: 50 New
                +1
                Quote: AlexxxNik
                why should I read a damn thing,

                Well, it’s better to read what they write on fences or in a public toilet — it arouses trust in such people.
    2. postman
      8 September 2012 16: 33 New
      -2
      the analysis is done there by people, as pimpled correctly wrote, who are nobody and there is no way to call them.

      What is Mars more promising than the moon?
      NOTHING.
      then Venus, there transurans there is a chance to find
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 07 New
        +1
        Venus is much more problematic than landing on Mars.
        1. postman
          8 September 2012 19: 49 New
          +2
          on energy-to achieve: no! (the sun helps)
          and the USSR proved this in their own experience.
          landing easier: atmospheric density. worse take-off
          1. Rumata
            Rumata 8 September 2012 19: 59 New
            +1
            Quote: Postman
            on energy-to achieve: no! (the sun helps)
            and the USSR proved this in their own experience.
            landing easier: atmospheric density. worse take-off

            More than 10 seconds harder to survive astronauts. Atmospheric pressure is almost 100 times higher, that is, about 100 atmospheres. The temperature reaches 500 degrees Celsius, add to this the frantic hurricane winds at an altitude of 40-50km (200-300m \ s) which will make it very difficult to descend or take off.
            s, s
            For comparison, 5 on the tornado scale, that is, the strongest that pull out houses - it is about 120-130m \ s, and the Hurricane is about 40m \ s
            1. postman
              9 September 2012 18: 32 New
              +2
              Quote: Rumata
              More than 10 seconds harder to survive astronauts. Atmospheric pressure is almost 100 times higher, i.e. about 100 atmospheres

              Hey.
              1.Not necessarily the same astronaut? Can use drones
              2. pressure 93 atm and 470-480 °, TRUE, BUT:
              -Do not drive! Landing can be done: Maxwell Mountains (11 km), or the areas of Alpha and Beta

              / As you can see, both temperature and pressure are already “easier” about 59 atmospheres, about 380 ° C)
              3. 93 atmospheres = 930m depth for water. Do they work? and not 10 seconds.
              470 °, the same if you look not very and catastrophically, an outer space suit: from minus 150 ° C to plus 150 ° C !! (half in the sun at +, the other at -).
              work for hours!
              Moreover, there are no problems with heat sink on Venus (but in a vacuum, and which one)

              the range of operating temperatures is from -35 to 300 degrees Celsius. The time of the protective action with a heat flux of up to 5 kW / m and a temperature of 300 degrees Celsius 30 minutes
              And this one:

              Nitti K-tech, destruction temperature 425 ° С
              But it’s practically “consumer goods” in comparison with a spacesuit.
              3.And why not use (at such an atmosphere density) something like an airship and not sink to a hot surface?

              In any case, VENERA is candidate No. 1 for terraforming. Because almost everything is there.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 9 September 2012 19: 36 New
                0
                This is a solution to a huge number of tasks, and a big risk. Mars is easier.
              2. Konrad
                Konrad 16 September 2012 16: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Postman
                And on Venus there are no problems with heat sink

                And where to remove the heat (???) if around 500 degrees !!!
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 9 September 2012 00: 53 New
            +1
            Pressure, temperature. Look at the history of Soviet probes, how much they worked and why
            1. postman
              9 September 2012 23: 34 New
              0
              Eugene.
              and the history of Soviet probes on Mars?
              How many "horrible" (fly away from the sun)? and how many of them suddenly became a satellite and ism (conclusion heavy Proton launch vehicle)? -cosmos, probes, satellites- there are all kinds of things that crashed during landing (atmosphere)?
              Venus 1-16, mention unified MVs, I will not


              In the future, the USSR managed to achieve success in the study of Venus AMS so much that it began to be called the "Russian planet"


              Waiting for: Venus-Glob (or EVE-2), Venus-D
      2. biglow
        biglow 8 September 2012 18: 08 New
        0
        postman,
        in short, radiation on the moon is very high for a person and being there will kill a person. It is too cold on the dark side. Therefore, the moon will be mastered at the first stage by robots until a deep base is created. And on Mars there is an atmosphere and there are more options for its development. More here
        http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/ там есть с кем поговорить на эти темы
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 28 New
          0
          Do not tell about radiation on the moon in more detail.
          1. biglow
            biglow 8 September 2012 19: 22 New
            +1
            Pimply,
            radiation belt van alen
            1. postman
              8 September 2012 19: 47 New
              -1
              while flying to Mars, the dose will receive more.
              on Mars it is also practically absent (if I’m not mistaken)
              there are no atm on the moon. and gravity is 6 times less.
              Mars in the near future simply cannot be mastered with chemistry.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 9 September 2012 01: 06 New
              +2
              I recommend reading what Van Alen’s radiation belt is before using special terminology. And also about the protective measures, and about the speed with which the belt was overcome.

              Also remember about the flights of Soviet lunar stations - Oh MIRACLE! - brought soil, which lies in many museums OPEN.

              Although the level of radiation in the Van Allen belts is very significant, the Apollo flew through them in a few hours - the dose of radiation received was negligible. An additional dose reduction was obtained by the appropriate choice of the flight path. The concentration of charged particles in the Van Allen belts is maximum above the earth's equator and decreases strongly towards the poles. Therefore, the lunar trajectories of the Apollo in the initial section passed north or south of the equatorial plane.
      3. AlexxxNik
        AlexxxNik 15 September 2012 13: 32 New
        0
        practice shows that enthusiastic amateurs often understand much more about the issue than many "professionals" from science, and flicking regalia in the absence of arguments on the internet can hardly convince anyone, this is at the RAS
    3. biglow
      biglow 8 September 2012 17: 57 New
      0
      biglow,
      You can minus as much as you like, but there are facts that cannot be refuted
      Where are at least the originals of the film shot on the moon, where is 300 kg of lunar soil, how can I lose it? Read the book on the first link, it’s easy to write, there are a lot of questions. Starting with the effects of radiation on the film and camera angles when shooting. The cameras are mounted on spacesuits, many photos were taken from incomprehensible angles for such a camera mount. etc .
      Denial is the most anticipated human reaction.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 8 September 2012 18: 06 New
        0
        There was no film on the moon, do you know?

        And which of the films - flights was several
        1. biglow
          biglow 8 September 2012 19: 22 New
          +1
          read the book here, everything is written there
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 9 September 2012 01: 07 New
            0
            I read. Do you really believe in this pseudoscientific nonsense? Tell me what you have in physics?
        2. biglow
          biglow 10 September 2012 13: 26 New
          0
          pimpled here is the camera

          70 mm. Hasselblad cassette camera, which was rigidly attached to the space suit of astronaut Apolon 11 mission Neil Armstrong
          1. AlexxxNik
            AlexxxNik 15 September 2012 13: 14 New
            0
            Yes, I wouldn’t take photos and videos at all, this is a typical chatter of the question, besides the photos there are so many jambs that these shadows will just seem like pampering
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 8 September 2012 15: 49 New
    +3
    space exploration veterans said they first wanted to launch pigs as more like humans. but someone at the top said:
    - submit the headlines in the Western press: "Russian pigs in space"?
    I had to run the dogs, but it didn't help much. Western newspapers heading "Russian dogs in space"
  • Rumata
    Rumata 8 September 2012 19: 43 New
    -2
    Again, conspiracy about the landing on the moon, how cute =)
  • Prosto vovochka
    Prosto vovochka 8 September 2012 20: 06 New
    +1
    Not sport, amers were there. I first congratulated Armstrong on landing, after he said something there about the steps. Just outside the field of view, the camera came up and congratulated.
  • iwind
    iwind 10 September 2012 00: 35 New
    +2
    Rumata,
    What surprises me more is the recreation of some people on a flight. As if it somehow humiliates or offends them. For how many, in spite of all the facts, are ready to shout "was not, this is all a hoax! 1111"
    And somehow they even suddenly forget that the flight was not one, I even clarify a little there were six.
    but still it's really so cute ...
    1. postman
      12 September 2012 14: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: iwind
      And somehow they even suddenly forget that

      And they forget that at Cape Canaverel, there were only third-party viewers (with binoculars, photos, movie cameras) tens of thousands + of cinema, television reporters and journalists nemeryanno + and foreign representatives.
      and everyone saw that Saturn 5
      Xnumx length m
      Diameter 10,1 m
      Starting weight 296

      1. Was delivered to the starting position
      2.Uploaded
      3. Launched and took off
      4. The separation of the steps.
      5. Telemetry.
      6. Turned back.




      Forgetting Operation Crossroad (Jamming USSR Tracking Ships)
      July 16, 1969. On warships, at electronic intelligence points and at electronic counteraction stations, they “played” a combat alert even at night. The Americans were ready to immediately open fire to defeat if they considered that signals were generated on Soviet ships that could interfere with the normal flight of the rocket.

      At 8 a.m. local time, the Americans recorded the inclusion of equipment on Soviet ships at full capacity. True, there were no suspicious impulses - the Soviet ships continued their activities to collect information about the American continent and the US armed forces.
      At 8 a.m., Orion aircraft equipped with an electronic countermeasure system approached Soviet ships. Ships have reduced the distance to our ships to the minimum possible.
      At 8 a.m., coast stations, equipment on airplanes and ships, designed to interfere, were turned on at full power in all previously identified ranges of Soviet systems.
      At 8 hours 32 minutes, the Saturn-5 rocket with the Apollo 11 ship rushed up.
      At 8 41 a.m., Apollo 11 entered low Earth orbit.
      At 8 hours 45 minutes shutdown of most systems on Soviet ships was recorded.
      At 8 hours 47 minutes, the Americans stopped jamming Soviet ships.
      At 8 hours and 50 minutes, ships of the 2nd Fleet received orders to sheathe guns. Orion aircraft left the area



      The only argument:
      No one did such an F-1 engine after, and so said one Veluyurov.
      WHAT DIDN'T YELL THAT IN THE 60S ??? in hot pursuit: This is all a movie production, Hollywood
      Beeping started after the movie (again, made in the USA)
      1. AlexxxNik
        AlexxxNik 15 September 2012 13: 09 New
        -2
        by the way, they tracked the fall point of dummies, despite the jamming and the Apollo 13 skeleton was successfully caught by our "fishermen", then, in the presence of the Hungarians, it was transferred to the Amer icebreaker in my opinion, and without any noise was taken out in the n-th direction, and about such the engine, and amers didn’t do it, they are starting from scratch now, I won’t be surprised if, with our or Ukrainian participation
  • Gonoriy
    Gonoriy 16 August 2015 11: 39 New
    0
    Very interesting article. But still, the Americans are probably too in a hurry with forecasts.