Military Review

So how can we repeat it?

156
Last week, space events were marked by two moments at once: the announcement of the withdrawal of the Russian side from the ISS program by 2024 and 50 years since the creation of the first orbital station.


These two points are very closely related.


Yes, once upon a time, 50 years ago, a country that was a leader was the first in the world to launch the Salyut-1 orbital station into space. It happened on April 19, 1971. And already on October 11, 1971, having spent 175 days in orbit, the station was de-orbited by MCC commands and entered the dense layers of the atmosphere. Unburned debris fell into the Pacific Ocean.

During this time, only two expeditions were sent to the station, Soyuz-10 (commander V. A. Shatalov, A. S. Eliseev and N. N. Rukavishnikov) docked, but the cosmonauts could not open the hatch and go to the station. The flight in coupled lasted 5 hours and 30 minutes, after which undocking took place and Soyuz-10 returned to Earth.

The second expedition aboard Soyuz-11 (commander G. T. Dobrovolsky, V. N. Volkov and V. I. Patsaev) docked and carried out the flight program, despite the fact that they had to fight with smoke and extinguish another fire on board. ... On the way back, Soyuz-11 depressurized and the cosmonauts died.

With regard to Salyut-1, we can say that the first pancake came out lumpy. But then other "Salutes" and "Mir" followed, treacherously de-orbiting and flooded in the ocean "as unnecessary."

And now, 50 years later, it turns out that Russia is again at the beginning of the path that another country has traveled. But the USSR had slightly different resources and opportunities. Soviet engineers and workers in the space industry were really the best in the world.

But the main thing was that they worked without looking back at anyone and without someone else's help. During the Cold War, you could only count on yourself.

Today the situation is very similar. And sanctions, and actually lost positions in space exploration, and the destroyed space industry - everything is there. It is very difficult to say even when it was more difficult - in 1971 or in 2021.

It seems to me that it was easier in 1971. Then there was a wide road and perspective ahead. Today it is hard to believe in the prospect, because Borisov and Rogozin talk about it, who only know how to say what. Things are much worse for them.

So how can we repeat it?
ISS station in June 1999. Zarya and Unity.

However, one cannot but agree that the ISS is everything. The station began on November 20, 1998 with the Zarya module, which is exactly everything. And the further, the more dangerous its exploitation will become.

Well, the American "Unity" is not much younger. In general, the ISS resource can be extended after 2024, but this, you see, does not mean that the station will function normally. Indeed, the risk is very high.
But now we are not talking about the risk of being on board the 25-year-old ISS, but about the risks that are associated with attempts to go our own way and the construction of a Russian space station.

In fact - deeply welcome. But at the same time there is an understanding that everything is not easy.

Optimism may be inspired by the work on the Mir-2 station, the continuation of the Mir, which Russia refused.

In general, the work was carried out and implemented, Mir-2 was built, this is the Zvezda module, which operates as a life support module for the Russian segment of the ISS station.


Yes, there is no question of using the Zvezda. She is only two years younger than Zarya. So, it will not work to undock the Russian segment. Moreover, the more frequent air leaks at the station are possibly caused by the fact that 90% of the ships and 100% of the orbit corrections were made precisely through the "Zvezda" and its three ports. It is the Progress trucks docked to the Zvezda that correct the ISS orbit with their engines, which does not have a positive effect on the tightness.

Well, the American position is no less destructive for the ISS. Americans are strongly opposed to extending the life of the station beyond 2024. And since the American contribution to the ISS is the most significant and significant, after their departure from the ISS program, it will cease to exist as an international platform altogether. And everyone will have to scatter to the national rooms after the exploitation of such a luxurious apartment as the ISS.

But there is nothing to be done about this, politics everywhere laid its paw. Even in space.

And now it was reported that after 2024 Russia will also not participate in the ISS project, but will be engaged in the construction of its own orbital station.

It's time.

The role of cabbies at the ISS is really unprofitable for us, cosmonauts have long complained about the lack of work opportunities, since the pragmatic Europeans, Japanese and Americans themselves operate their scientific modules quite well, not particularly pleasing our free time.

By the way, having your own station is very useful, if only because it is possible, as in the good old Soviet times, to do things that the “partners” do not need to know about.

But what can Roskosmos really offer in terms of building a new orbital station "only for its own"?

In our difficult times, there are a lot of people who want to be smart and teach how to do it. But in the present situation, after so many publications on near-space and space topics, I would just like to speculate about whether we can do it again?

Yes, a good slogan for the next 10 years is “Can we repeat it?”. And it would be perfectly fine to remove the question mark from the phrase.

So, what do we have in general?

And we have something. Yes, not God knows how much, but there is. And, starting from this, it is quite possible to collect something in orbit.

1. Module "Science".


Not for the night, to be honest, the aforementioned, ill-fated Science module. Which has been going since 1995 and still nothing. However, history We have already described the misadventures of this module more than once, so we will not repeat ourselves.

But, in essence, what is "Science"? Initially, it was a backup for the Zarya module, into which Mir-2 was transferred. Zarya became the center around which the entire ISS gathered. Why can't Nauka be the same for the Russian station? The life support system in the module is present initially, so ...

Yes, they once again tried to push Nauka into space and dock to the ISS. I think in our case it will be imprudent. The module has a resource of 10 years. ISS will be sentenced in three years. Meaning?

If I were in the place of the leadership of Roskosmos (God forbid, of course), I would find microcracks that do not allow to pass tests for leaks, rust somewhere, in short, I would simply delay the launch of Nauka into space to the maximum.

And then I would bring it out. As the initial segment of the ROSS (Russian Orbital Service Station).

Not the worst option, I think. Considering that "Science" was supposed to be launched again on April 20, 2021, and in news the tape is completely silent today - the "leak", apparently, was found.

2. Universal module "Berth"


Useful thing: 6 docking points, storage space for arriving goods. The term of work is at least 30 years. The only drawback is that the "Prichal" should dock with the "Science", it was created for it, and docking with any other module jeopardizes the normal operation of all docking stations.

The Prichal has already been assembled, tested and ready to launch. Waiting for the "Science" to be launched into space.

Positive point.

3. NEM-1. Scientific and energy module.


Large module, larger in volume than "Science" and "Prichal" combined. The volume of NEM-1 is 92 cubic meters. "Nauka" - 70, "Prichal" - 19. Together this is a rather serious volume of space that can be filled with equipment for research and experiments.

Together, this will amount to 181 cubic meters. For comparison: the volume of the Russian segment of the ISS is 203 cubic meters.

In addition, additional fuel tanks are planned on the module, the fuel from which will be used to adjust the station's orbit. This is a very useful option, considering that there are no such tanks on Nauka.

The module is practically assembled today. The debugging and testing will take some more time, the postponement of the NEM-1 launch from 2019 to 2025 may also play into the hands of the Russian cosmonautics.

Yes, in a peculiar way, but the case when our inability to bring projects to completion on time can play a positive role. Naturally, in the event that they are finished and launched into space.

And then indeed, at the turn of 2025, we will be able to see the Russian station in near-earth orbit. With Russian cosmonauts and scientists working exclusively in the interests of our country. Not queuing up for foreign modules on the ISS.

And yes, on the ISS it will also be possible to see what is still useful in our unit.

In general, given that the resource of the first Russian (actually Soviet) modules Zarya and Zvezda has actually been exhausted, it is really not worth holding onto the ISS. The so-called partnership in space is still experiencing tremendous pressure from politicians, so if it really makes sense to bet on international cooperation, then not with the Americans and Europeans.

It is believed that the Chinese would be much more suitable for us as partners in space. Moreover, they are making tremendous strides in space exploration.

Our country has everything to continue work in space. There is a huge baggage of Soviet developments, there are factories, not everything has yet been auctioned off and ruined by "effective managers", there are people who can work with their heads and hands, and not with their tongues.

The main disadvantage of Russian cosmonautics today is that no one is responsible for tactical failures and strategic failures. More precisely, people in charge are appointed at the very bottom. Like a storekeeper.

10 years of taunting Musk have led to the fact that Roscosmos is now in a situation of catching up in terms of reusable ships, reusable stages, lunar rockets and everything else.

Can we repeat it? Exactly?

And they won't wait for us. By 2024, I don’t know if it’s a coincidence or how, but the American company Axiom Space plans to dock the first commercial module to the American Harmony module. And a little later, two more. This is a space hotel project for tourists who are able to pay for a flight into orbit. And if the ISS project is closed, they plan to equip these modules with an independent life support system and ... and the commercial orbital station is ready.

But the Americans have the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway (LOP-G) project, which they plan to place in orbit around the Moon. And, accordingly, to study the Moon and the specifics of long-term expeditions in space. And if the LOP-G project begins to be implemented, then naturally, there will be no talk of any funding for the ISS.

Although, of course, while a near-lunar station is being built, it is better to have something operational in orbit. Beautiful plans for the future, you know, have the peculiarity of not coming true.

But we shouldn't look back at Americans or Europeans. Not worth it at all. Roscosmos has too many problems associated with the creation of its own orbital station and the continuation of work on the exploration of near space. And very little time.

The year 2024, unfortunately, is very close. This is not a story that in 2035 or 2050 we will grow cucumbers on the Moon or Mars. We will not have time to look back at such a pace, and the ISS will already begin its sliding from orbit towards the Pacific Ocean.

And the main thing here is that the Russian space structures were ready for this moment not in words, but in deeds. So that, firstly, all cosmic perspectives do not end up in the same place as the Mir station, and secondly, so that in orbit there will be something that will continue what was begun sixty years ago.

So can we repeat it, or what?
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  1. Flashpoint
    Flashpoint April 22 2021 04: 34
    -18%
    When will Russian bears grow buckwheat on Mars? And then the earthly buckwheat is already boring.
    We urgently need to ask the bears minister for space bear affairs.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty April 22 2021 05: 55
      +3
      A novel, most likely, "or how!" The lack of our own microelectronics is also a disadvantage for us! So, we will fight with problems, along the way creating new problems for ourselves, where can we go without them!
      1. Flashpoint
        Flashpoint April 22 2021 06: 00
        +14
        Quote: Thrifty
        A novel, most likely, "or how!" The lack of our own microelectronics is also a disadvantage for us! So, we will fight with problems, along the way creating new problems for ourselves, where can we go without them!

        The bulk of the problems - from the lack of a clear vector of movement and understanding of the problems themselves. In fact, it is a crooked management.
        At the expense of China, they are not our helpers. You need to rely on your own ground, otherwise China will pull the blanket over itself.
        In the overall standings, let them repeat themselves, plans and PR are not so interesting to listen to against the background of great stagnation.
        1. Civil
          Civil April 22 2021 07: 49
          +8
          The bulk of the problems - from the lack of a clear vector of movement and understanding of the problems themselves. In fact, it is a crooked management.

          There is very much even - to retain power and transfer it to their children-grandchildren. Excellent management for the task at hand, excellent power resources to keep the natives in order.
          At the expense of China, they are not our helpers. You need to rely on your own ground, otherwise China will pull the blanket over itself.

          China wants to get the USSR's work on the lunar program, the PRC is developing the Earth's orbit on its own.
          In the overall standings, let them repeat themselves, plans and PR are not so interesting to listen to against the background of great stagnation.

          The main thing for minimal money is to knock down an orbital station from what it was, and it is even better to pull for years, reporting each new bolt screwed to the modules as an achievement ... and then either a donkey or a padish.
          1. Achilles
            Achilles April 22 2021 09: 03
            +1
            Two options for the flight of Russian cosmonauts to the moon

          2. Cosm22
            Cosm22 April 22 2021 10: 01
            +1
            Everything is so, only China on the lunar program has already bypassed the USSR by an order of magnitude.
            1. Volder
              Volder April 22 2021 10: 12
              -3
              Quote: Cosm22
              China on the lunar program has already bypassed the USSR by an order of magnitude.
              Your unfounded words are inappropriate. To find out the facts about the number of lunar missions of the USSR and China, it is enough just to hammer into the search engine: Moon exploration
              1. Cosm22
                Cosm22 April 22 2021 11: 08
                +9
                And what does the number of lunar missions have to do with the country's technical and technological potential?
                If they all followed the same pattern and the same pattern?
                China did what neither the USSR nor the United States could do. He was able to carry out automatic docking and undocking of spacecraft in a circumlunar orbit and successfully deliver lunar soil to Earth in an amount of 1731 grams at a time. Compare this with the amount of soil equal to 324 grams delivered to the USSR in 3 approaches. In this case, part of the soil was taken from the surface by the manipulator, and part from under it with the help of a drill. This is the question of unfounded words.
                In addition, the potential of Chang'e-5 turned out to be so capacious that the spacecraft, after delivering the capsule with the soil to Earth, extended the scientific program and at the moment it continues space research. Who else in the world can boast of such an achievement? Something similar was done only by the United States at one time in the framework of the Apollo program.
                For Russia, for example, today a feasible task is only to drop the probe onto the lunar surface; there is no talk at all about the return of the spacecraft.
                Lunar rovers made in the USSR and China will be measured?
                1. Achilles
                  Achilles April 22 2021 20: 43
                  -5
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  For Russia, for example, today a feasible task is only to drop the probe onto the lunar surface; there is no talk at all about the return of the spacecraft.
                  Lunar rovers made in the USSR and China will be measured?

                  China currently has a proton-class rocket and can launch up to 20 tons. and this is not enough to launch a manned lunar program, but for this you need a completely different rocket and this rocket is now in China only on paper in the form of drawings. You don't have to lift China to the skies. Russia is still in the forefront and we will succeed.
                  1. Cosm22
                    Cosm22 April 22 2021 22: 38
                    +8
                    First, Changzheng-5 can push 25 tons to LEO without any problems. Alas, Proton-M falls short of this figure.
                    Secondly, no one in the world has superheavy today, except for Musk with his Falcon Heavy.
                    Thirdly, honor and praise to China that it has a heavyweight "Changzheng-9" "only on paper in the form of drawings." For Russia does not even have this.
                    Roskosmos is only feverishly rushing between kerosene, methane and hydrogen, trying to determine at least the appearance of its heavyweight.
                2. Valerikk
                  Valerikk April 26 2021 13: 14
                  0
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  He was able to carry out automatic docking and undocking of spacecraft in a circumlunar orbit and successfully deliver 1731 grams of lunar soil to Earth at a time.

                  What year was that?
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  Compare this with the amount of soil equal to 324 grams delivered to the USSR in 3 approaches.

                  And what year was that?
                3. Jager
                  Jager April 27 2021 19: 40
                  +1
                  There is no need to compare the first successes of 50 years ago with modern Chinese ones. Elementary because of the difference in technical means. If the USSR had the same modern microelectronics as it is now, Soviet cosmonauts would have been driving moonshine from wheat grown on Mars long ago.
        2. Achilles
          Achilles April 22 2021 09: 08
          -7
          I hope that the new orbital station will be called Mir-2. In the future, an orbital complex will appear on its basis, from which launches to the Moon and Mars will be possible.
          If the construction of a new DOS (long-term orbital station) is carried out only by means of rockets such as the Proton (cargo mass = 22 tons), then 20 launches will cost the Russian treasury $ 1,5-2 billion.
          If Energia does the same (cargo mass = 98 tons, 4-5 launches), then the amount will be the same, approximately $ 1,4-1,7 billion.
          When using MAKS, a multipurpose aerospace system (cargo mass = 30 tons), the same 20 launches will cost $ 100-150 million. True, the creation of MAKS will cost about $ 2 billion.
          What will Roscosmos choose?
          I believe that investing in MAKS is a profitable investment in the future of Russian cosmonautics. At the output, we will receive, firstly, a launch system not tied to launch sites - about 11 non-class airfields with a runway length of over 3 km are suitable for cosmodromes.
          Secondly, the satellite constellation replenishment system, the cosmonaut emergency rescue system, the satellite inspection system and the space reconnaissance system, which is not afraid of anti-satellite weapons.
          1. Cosm22
            Cosm22 April 22 2021 10: 05
            +1
            MAKS is a chimera from the category of Rogozin's lunar bases.
            What are 30 tons? Together with the OS? And the weight is purely PN what? Is there a carrier? It is not and never will be.
            Why post this nonsense the second time in a row?
            1. Passing
              Passing April 22 2021 18: 13
              -5
              MAX is not a chimera, but our only chance to "catch up and overtake".
              We have no chance to compete with Musk in rockets, his cost per kilogram of cargo is already cheaper than that of Proton, and this is for a one-time scheme, the only option for us is a scheme that gives, on a conceptual level, a radical advantage over the reusable Faotkon-9. And the only practically feasible option is something like MAKS.
              Either we will do it, or we will let it go miserable and only for ourselves, because the country is poor, and there is no glimpse of the chances of becoming rich.
              1. Achilles
                Achilles April 22 2021 20: 46
                -5
                Quote: Passing by
                MAX is not a chimera, but our only chance to "catch up and overtake".
                We have no chance to compete with Musk in rockets, his cost per kilogram of cargo is already cheaper than that of Proton, and this is for a one-time scheme, the only option for us is a scheme that gives, on a conceptual level, a radical advantage over the reusable Faotkon-9. And the only practically feasible option is something like MAKS.
                Either we will do it, or we will let it go miserable and only for ourselves, because the country is poor, and there is no glimpse of the chances of becoming rich.

                There are simply people who do not understand basic things.
              2. Cosm22
                Cosm22 April 22 2021 23: 32
                +5
                I don't even know ... Should I start from scratch, or what?
                The first and lethal question is - is there a carrier plane?
                The answer is categorical: it does not exist and never will be. He was, they made Mriya a specialist for MAKS, but then they were smart enough to imagine what could happen to the devices at the time of undocking with the OS engine running and they ditched this crazy idea. Mriya began to carry Buran and the elements of the Energy structure. Besides, remind me where Mriya is now? Does Russia have its own aircraft of such payload? Not. Can she build it? Not. At this point, the discussion could end. But we will continue.
                What kind of load can an orbiting plane carry? Why even remember about him in the topic of the orbital station? What thirty tons of PN are we talking about? Is it along with the OS? And without him? Who needs such a scanty PN?
                After all, even Stratolaunch Systems (an analogue of which cannot be created in Russia in principle) is capable of displaying only light satellite-like launch vehicles. Remind the weight of the space station modules? What are we talking about? But the comment in the thread about the orbital station. Laughter is like ...
                It is necessary not to be engaged in nonsense, but in business. If the country is poor, then maybe there is no need to burn expensive engines in the first flight? And take a closer look at what the same Musk is doing? It will not be possible to catch up with it, of course, but you can try to at least reduce the cost of launching the launch vehicle. True, for this you need to work. Head and hands. I don’t want to. It is much more pleasant to sit on the legacy of Korolev and Glushko. It's endless to modernize something.
                1. Achilles
                  Achilles April 23 2021 08: 28
                  -6
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  I don't even know ... Should I start from scratch, or what?
                  The first and lethal question is - is there a carrier plane?

                  Are you pretending to be stupid or what? Can you read or what? I wrote it would take about $ 2 billion to create a multipurpose aerospace system. This system is a profitable investment in the future of Russian cosmonautics in many respects and this needs to be understood
                  1. Cosm22
                    Cosm22 April 23 2021 09: 33
                    -1
                    For the too smart: Elon Musk received $ 165 million from PayPal, of which $ 100 million was invested in the creation of SpaceX. Only $ 100 million. This was enough at first to start laying the mighty state-owned Roscosmos on both blades.
                    It is not the amount of money that matters (although you cannot do without it), but the head. Ideas are important, it is important to correctly prioritize and highlight accents. If Musk was doing such nonsense as the AKC, no one would know his last name.
                    Two billion? What for? To put the minimum ST into orbit?
                    It is good that even RK understands the absurdity of this nonsense and does not engage in such nonsense.
                    1. fuffi
                      fuffi April 26 2021 13: 13
                      +1
                      Some fairy tales for advertising the Mask about a penny for which he made the "impossible". And with the same money he developed all the rockets? And Ksmodrom for the same money? ))) The same tales as about how Navalny exists on donations from his hamsters
                  2. 3danimal
                    3danimal April 23 2021 09: 39
                    +2
                    Where does 2 billion come from? How did you make the calculations?
                    Is there production capacity for this, amid the difficulties with the Il-112?
                2. Passing
                  Passing April 23 2021 11: 18
                  -3
                  I don't even know ... Should I start from scratch, or what?
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  Is there a carrier plane?
                  The answer is categorical: it does not exist and never will be.

                  It's not even a question of lack of funding, it's just a matter of correctly prioritizing. There is money for a not-so-needed Il-106 designed to replace the Il-76 and An-124 at the same time. Maybe we can postpone an unnecessary project and invest in a really needed one?
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  but then they were smart enough to imagine what could be with the devices at the time of undocking when the OS engine was running, and they ditched this crazy idea.

                  It's funny, about the idea of ​​Musk to return the first stage, our managers from space also twisted their finger at their temples in chorus, and as a result flew big.
                  You don't even need to guess about the release of super-heavy and oversized cargo from an airplane, it is 100% real. This has been demonstrated by the Americans dozens of times, and in the seventies, in our time. For those who were especially stubborn in their cabbychegon, they even dumped forty tons with the engine starting in the air. The question is closed once and for all.
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  What kind of load can an orbiting plane carry?

                  The MAKS project implied the output of 18 tons to LEO. Is it really not enough? No question, Mriya is not the crown of creation, a bunch of new technologies have come to aviation, from digital design to materials. Let's do much better. There will be as much as needed. The question is in the correct prioritization.
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  After all, even Stratolaunch Systems ... is capable of displaying only light satellite-type monitors.

                  Six tons is not a light load. Why there is so little, while MAKS has many times more, is a separate question. I don't know what kind of amateurs are developing Stratolaunch Systems, but MAKS was developed by the same professionals as Buran. Buran flew, the characteristics were confirmed. MAKS did not fly, but that the characteristics would be confirmed, the probability is very high.
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  It is necessary not to be engaged in nonsense, but in business.

                  They took it off the tongue! Correctly prioritize, and implement them, regardless of ... This is how nations become great. And the rest huddle in corners and mutter something about "objective circumstances."
                3. dog of war
                  dog of war April 26 2021 00: 41
                  -1
                  Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but about Mriya, where did you get the idea that it was made specifically for MAKS? As far as I know, it was done exclusively within the framework of the Energia-Buran program, and only then the MAKS project arose and it was proposed to use Mriya.
        3. Maki Avellevich
          Maki Avellevich April 24 2021 09: 41
          +1
          Quote: Flashpoint
          The bulk of the problems - from the lack of a clear vector of movement and understanding of the problems themselves. In fact, it is a crooked management.

          why are we going into space?
          a clear task must be set.

          for example: we go into space so as not to give the Chinese / Americans, etc. overtake us in this matter.
          it is possible and so, but I think this is not sufficient. smallish.

          a more worthy goal: we go into space to secure the future of humanity through expansion.
          we will get sources of energy, knowledge, new colonies (who knows when we bang on each other on earth).

          such a goal is romantic, dignified, and challenging. it is not a pity to spend money and energy of many generations on it.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 22 2021 15: 11
        -3
        Quote: Thrifty
        The lack of our own microelectronics is also a disadvantage for us!

        On the scale of the project in question, the capacities and competencies of our DOE are quite sufficient.
      3. businessv
        businessv April 22 2021 21: 14
        -1
        Quote: Thrifty
        The lack of our own microelectronics is also a disadvantage for us!
        I think that we are solving this issue with the PRC, it is also into their hands - technologies with technolonies, like the base, but the Chinese are excellent performers, and we are the "inspirers" (especially Rogozin). smile Seriously, it is not enough to have technology and sites for placement, you still need to be absolutely sure what exactly is planned to be done. Thank God, we still have very strong specialists who can fix this, but their number is decreasing. Thanks to Roman for the article, it was interesting and an intelligent analysis of the situation was made.
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 April 22 2021 04: 36
    +16
    Space should be headed by a specialized specialist, not a National Bolshevik journalist with a fat hare.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. sniperino
      sniperino April 22 2021 05: 18
      -5
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Space should be led by a specialized specialist
      Manager of the Universe?
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. April 22 2021 05: 25
        -3
        Lord God or what?
        I'm afraid God will send us an asteroid of a decent size ... to reeducate human civilization. what
        1. magdama
          magdama April 22 2021 07: 14
          -6
          Yes, I would rather ...
      2. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 April 22 2021 05: 27
        +10
        Well, I cannot name the names, but I am always tormented by the question why Rogozin has less merit and money than Musk, but more?
        1. magdama
          magdama April 22 2021 07: 18
          +7
          Maybe he is "a person close to the emperor"?
        2. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A April 22 2021 08: 15
          +3
          Quote: Pessimist22
          Well, I cannot name the names, but I am always tormented by the question why Rogozin has less merit and money than Musk, but more?


          Are you unfamiliar with the principles of good nutrition?

          Insulinemic index of foods?
          The glycemic index of foods?
          You can eat very little - but constantly get fat!
          It all depends on the foods you "like" to eat.

          So in Russia, they are simply not interested in these issues until obesity of the 2nd degree comes, or diabetes mellitus.

          It's a pity.
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 April 22 2021 10: 14
            -9
            So in Russia, they are simply not interested in these issues until obesity of the 2nd degree comes, or diabetes mellitus.

            yes, crowing about diabetes in Russia amid obesity problems among Americans laughing
            bias? no, I have not heard what it is lol
        3. Boris55
          Boris55 April 22 2021 08: 47
          -24%
          Quote: Pessimist22
          I am always tormented by the question why Rogozin has less merit and money than Musk, but more?

          Hari, then both of them be healthy, they do not interfere with the telly, but there is no business, either one or the other, both are swindlers.
    3. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS April 22 2021 06: 02
      +13
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Space should be led by a specialized specialist, not a journalist

      The journalist categorically disagrees with you. "The only one who can be without specialized education in the rocket and space industry is the general director of Roscosmos," he said at a meeting of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics named after K. E. Tsiolkovsky.
      1. Civil
        Civil April 22 2021 09: 15
        +7
        Quote: WHAT IS
        The journalist categorically disagrees with you. "The only one who can be without specialized education in the rocket and space industry is the general director of Roscosmos," he said at a meeting of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics named after K. E. Tsiolkovsky.

        laughing laughing lol Rogozin - Boch of cosmonautics
    4. Serg65
      Serg65 April 22 2021 08: 01
      +2
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Space should be led by a specialized specialist

      what so Lavrenty Palych was a specialized specialist?
      1. Civil
        Civil April 22 2021 09: 16
        +2
        Quote: Serg65
        so Lavrenty Palych was a specialized specialist?

        Lavrenty Palych did not hold a post in astronautics.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 April 22 2021 10: 55
          +5
          Quote: Civil
          Lavrenty Palych did not hold a post in astronautics.

          what Those. Korolev directly supervised the Soviet cosmonautics?
          1. novel66
            novel66 April 22 2021 11: 23
            +1
            no, Sergey Palych was engaged in technology ... but how ... there are no such people now, that's it, little dog mother, effective ...
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 April 22 2021 11: 49
              +4
              Quote: novel xnumx
              Sergey Palych was engaged in technology

              Exactly, and Lavrenty was in charge!
              hi Don't cry Roma, you will have everything ..... just work honestly (L.P. Beria)
              1. novel66
                novel66 April 22 2021 11: 55
                +2
                for power hurt
                1. novel66
                  novel66 April 22 2021 11: 57
                  +2
                  great people ... our central square
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 April 22 2021 11: 59
                    +6
                    although in the original photo they are more fun
                2. Serg65
                  Serg65 April 22 2021 12: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  for power hurt

                  And the state will have everything, the person who said this phrase "it is insulting for the state" did he think that soon the gardens in the Caspian will bloom?
          2. Civil
            Civil April 22 2021 11: 48
            -3
            Quote: Serg65
            what Ie Korolev directly supervised the Soviet cosmonautics?

            No, I was a journalist lol
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 April 22 2021 13: 18
              +3
              Quote: Civil
              No, I was a journalist

              Vadim, you need to know the history of your Motherland, all the more so for you!
              1. Civil
                Civil April 22 2021 13: 23
                +2
                Quote: Serg65
                Quote: Civil
                No, I was a journalist

                Vadim, you need to know the history of your Motherland, all the more so for you!

                On May 13, 1946, a special committee on jet technology was created under the Council of Ministers of the USSR, in which representatives of the RNII, such as SP Korolev, who became chairman of the Council of Chief Designers, took part [25]. In the same year, at the suggestion of the Minister of Armaments D.F.Ustinov, rocketry was separated into a separate branch. With the support of the USSR Ministry of Aviation Industry, which included the RNII of the USSR Ministry of Armament with the NII-16 created on May 1946, 88, and the Ministry of Agricultural Engineering, the ground was prepared for the creation of a special ministry for the rocket and space industry.

                The Ministry of General Machine Building of the USSR was established on April 2, 1955 by the Decree of the USSR Armed Forces, [26] [27] [28] with the most active participation of the USSR Academy of Sciences and its leading scientists [29] [30]. The first minister was appointed Major General of the Engineering and Artillery Service Pyotr Nikolaevich Goremykin, who previously held the post of Minister of Agricultural Engineering of the USSR from June 1946 to March 1951 [31] [32].

                On May 10, 1957, the Ministry of General Machine Building of the USSR merged with the Ministry of Defense Industry of the USSR under the leadership of Rodion Yakovlevich Malinovsky for reasons of secrecy in order to prepare the launch of the first satellite and the first man into space [33]. In 1959, Vladimir Chelomey became the general designer of aviation, rocket and rocket-space technology of the USSR Ministry of General Affairs [34]. In 1965, the post of Deputy Minister of the Ministry of General Machinery was taken by L. I. Gusev
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 April 22 2021 14: 40
                  +6
                  Quote: Civil
                  On May 13, 1946, a special committee on jet technology was created under the Council of Ministers of the USSR

                  The chairman of this committee was L.P. Beria!
                  Quote: Civil
                  S.P. Korolev, who became the chairman of the Board of Chief Designers

                  Those. Korolev became the chairman of the Council of Chief Designers under the Special Committee!
                  In those days, Beria oversaw all the ministries related to defense ... including Ustinov, who was directly subordinate to Beria!
                  1. Civil
                    Civil April 22 2021 14: 52
                    +2

                    The chairman of this committee was L.P. Beria!

                    Confused, he was the chairman of the Special Committee under the Council of Ministers of the USSR.

                    The Chairman of the Ad Hoc Committee on jet technology was Malenkov By Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR of May 13, 1946 No. 1017-419 "Questions of jet armament" 1, a Special Committee on jet technology was created under the Council of Ministers, which was headed by G.M. Malenkov. D.F. Ustinov, I.G. Zubovich, members of the committee - N.D. Yakovlev, P.I. Kirpichnikov, A.I. Berg, P.N. Goremykin, I.A. Serov, N.E. Nosovsky. Their choice is explained by the following circumstances.
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 22 2021 15: 13
          +3
          Quote: Civil
          Lavrenty Palych did not hold a post in astronautics.

          and in the atomic project did not take?
          1. Civil
            Civil April 22 2021 15: 23
            0
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

            and in the atomic project did not take?

            He was the chairman of the Special Committee under the Council of Ministers of the USSR. Precisely for the nuclear project.
  3. Ka-52
    Ka-52 April 22 2021 04: 38
    +3
    but the American company Axiom Space plans to dock the first commercial module to the American Harmony module.

    Americans will reduce any progress to the entertainment industry. But when that mankind dreamed of the vastness of the universe, and secrets, of conquest ...
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 April 22 2021 04: 46
      +1
      Utopian dreams of Soviet romantics, in reality life on Mars is impossible, I personally think that only robots can do something on the Moon and Mars.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 April 22 2021 05: 03
        +10
        Utopian dreams of Soviet romantics

        it is not a matter of utopia, but of goals. If the goal is the sphere of consumption, then we get what we get now: all progress has been reduced to the development of tools and means of entertainment. I think I will not be mistaken if I say that there are orders of magnitude more programmers employed in the field of writing programs for iPhones than for writing programs for observing outer space. Hence the expectation - after short years of insight and dreams in the 60s and 70s. mankind is again slipping into primeval ages.
        - I also had one like this - I made wings.
        - Oh well.
        - I put him on a barrel of gunpowder, let him fly.
        Ivan Vasilievich changes his profession ©
        1. Pessimist22
          Pessimist22 April 22 2021 05: 22
          -1
          Capitalists need profit now, not dreams of distant planets and gardens on Mars in the future, but I don’t think it is possible to make a profit from the exploitation of the bowels of Mars and the Moon in the coming decades, but a lot of money is being invested there, maybe this is just a financial bubble, my opinion is better to invest in the Arctic, since it is more profitable and cheaper for the ruling class of Russia to send "robots" there than dreams of stations on the Moon.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 22 2021 15: 31
        +3
        Quote: Pessimist22
        Utopian dreams of Soviet romantics, in reality life on Mars is impossible, I personally think that only robots can do something on the Moon and Mars.

        Not! We must believe !!!
    2. Avior
      Avior April 22 2021 05: 45
      +8
      To date, all space tourists in space flew under contracts with Russia :) to the Russian segment of the station

      https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Космический_туризм

      For the Americans, this was prohibited by law, and in tourism they played supporting roles.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins April 22 2021 06: 03
        +4
        Against the background of constant reports about the delivery of objects (not even the space sphere) "with a shift" to the right, I think the date indicated by Roman is slightly optimistic ...
      2. Ka-52
        Ka-52 April 22 2021 10: 07
        +1
        To date, all space tourists in space flew under contracts with Russia :) to the Russian segment of the station

        yeah? What about Space Adventures? belay who brought about a dozen space tourists to the ISS?
        and our program was, so to speak, an attempt to survive, to raise money in the conditions of chronic underfunding of the first half of the 2000s. It is not for nothing that after 2015 the Roskosmos space tourism program was practically blown away.
        1. Avior
          Avior April 22 2021 10: 16
          +5
          What about Space Adventures?

          very simple
          in tourism, supporting roles were

          Currently, the only used space tourism destination is the International Space Station (ISS). The flights are carried out by Russian Soyuz spacecraft to the Russian segment of the ISS.

          The organization of tourist flights is carried out by Roskosmos and the American Space Adventures. Space Adventures has been cooperating with Roscosmos since 2001; in total, with the help of this company, seven tourists have already visited space (data at the end of 2012), and one of them (Charles Simonyi) twice.

          Space tourists are trained in Star City, the city of Shchelkovo near Moscow,
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 April 22 2021 10: 42
            -2
            in tourism, supporting roles were

            about the "auxiliary" role all the same on what basis?
            here it is
            Space tourists are trained in Star City, the city of Shchelkovo near Moscow,

            not a foundation. For example, I, Space Adventures, entered into a contract with a certain person X for a space tourism service. He attracted the company Roskosmos as a contractor, which for a certain cost drove the tourist through the MBK and the training and education center. Well, they also took over the transfer into orbit. It doesn't smell of any secondary roles here))
            1. Avior
              Avior April 22 2021 10: 53
              +5
              Roskosmos provided training, secured a place on the ISS, and ensured delivery to the ISS. Roscosmos is a monopolist in all three positions.
              Space Adventures has been advertised by Roskosmos and has found applicants. Never a monopolist in this matter.
              We signed a contract together.
              If Roscosmos had gotten ahead of it, it would have done without the Americans. The same cannot be said about the Americans.
              hi
    3. Niko
      Niko April 22 2021 07: 28
      +4
      Quote: Ka-52
      but the American company Axiom Space plans to dock the first commercial module to the American Harmony module.

      Americans will reduce any progress to the entertainment industry. But when that mankind dreamed of the vastness of the universe, and secrets, of conquest ...

      If you consider the "entertainment industry" that American space exploration programs have actually been running for decades (and not just miserable floundering in low-earth orbit), then yes, you are right.
    4. military_cat
      military_cat April 22 2021 08: 16
      +9
      Quote: Ka-52
      Americans will reduce any progress to the entertainment industry

      Americans on the ISS receive Bose-Einstein condensate, this is the fifth state of matter after solid, liquid, gas and plasma. On Earth, obtaining it is very difficult and unstable due to the action of gravity. https://nplus1.ru/news/2020/06/11/BEC-orbit

      Meanwhile, the Russian segment is preparing to make "the first ever feature film shot in space."
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 April 22 2021 10: 03
        -4
        Meanwhile, the Russian segment is preparing to make "the first ever feature film shot in space."

        yeah, kissing the Americans' ass is great for you ... And the experiments "Catalyst" and Plasma Crystal Plus ", and" Biopolymer ", and" Restoration ", and" Epsilon-NEP "and dozens of other scientific developments only on the ISS. Speaking of scientific programs with the help of satellites, where do you come from those who have Matrassia, hamburger + Coca-Cola - the idols of our time?
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 April 22 2021 12: 27
          +4
          Dozens of Russian scientific developments in 23 years is, of course, cool.
          But not enough, frankly. Cause? Why are we silent about it?
          And the reason is mundane. Russian cosmonauts have nowhere and nothing to work on.
          For the MLM module specially designed for these purposes has been found on Earth for a quarter of a century. And in light of the past news about the possible death of the ISS in 2024-2025. its launch to the current station generally loses all meaning.
          And without it, the scientific work of Russian crews is extremely limited. The scientific equipment in the Zarya and Zvezda modules is very scarce and only allows some experiments. So sometimes Russian cosmonauts are forced to stand, figuratively speaking, in line at 3 foreign laboratories - the American Destiny, the Japanese Kibo and the European Columbus, submitting applications for scientific work in advance and agreeing on schedules.
          However, now there is no time for scientific work at all. The main task of the crew is to search for air leaks in the Russian segment and seal the holes.
        2. Sarboz
          Sarboz April 25 2021 09: 15
          -2
          Quote: Ka-52
          Where do you come from those who have Matrassia, hamburger + Coca-Cola - the idols of our time?

          At VO, a whole lobby has formed, defending the superiority of everyone and everything over Russia. If you listen to them, we are lagging behind in development not only from the USA, EU, Israel, Turkey, but also from Luxembourg and Papua New Guinea. Who are these people?
          It is clear that some of them are trolls, they stupidly work out their bread. Some of them are residents of some special former republics of the Union, offended by the fact that Russia sucked the juices from them all the Soviet years and now haunts them - these are the Baltic States, UA, Georgia. Emigrants of all stripes are extremely partial to Russia, they just cannot forgive the Motherland for the education given to them for free, which now allows them to maintain a good level of discussion on various serious topics.
          But the most dangerous are the admirers of everything western, living in Russia. They are convinced traitors, collaborators. If it happened on the Bolotnaya Maidan like the Kiev one, they would not hesitate to smash their fellow citizens, who value a strong sovereign Russia.
    5. spirit
      spirit April 22 2021 12: 17
      +3
      Well, yes, Rogozin, for the sake of propaganda, shoots the film on the ISS for budget money (and not private), thereby disrupting scientific and working expeditions that were already on schedule negative
  4. Alien From
    Alien From April 22 2021 04: 54
    +3
    Thank you Roman! A very sober assessment of reality. And yes, yours is always closer to the body.
  5. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. April 22 2021 04: 57
    0
    Of course, what Roman listed and voiced is interesting.
    But these are all momentary, tactical plans.
    Space exploration by Russia requires strategic plans and strict implementation of them.
    We are constantly solving firefighting tasks at once.
    Well, let's drive the station into orbit what but this is not enough, the tasks should be more ambitious ... with a long-range sight to the orbit of the moon.
  6. clerk
    clerk April 22 2021 05: 10
    -2
    ... So can we repeat it, or what?
    Well, let's believe - let's say there are modules. And the trampoline works - what are we going to run on? Losing a rocket with commercial satellites is a shame, but not critical. But to lose a rocket with a module is to disrupt the whole program ...
    1. Errr
      Errr April 22 2021 07: 21
      +6
      Quote: clerk
      And the trampoline works - what are we going to run on?
      MLM-U "Science" and the scientific-energy module (SEM) are pulled out by Protons-M, and UM "Prichal" - by Soyuz-2.
  7. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 22 2021 05: 12
    +3
    For once and for all I agree with the author of the article.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome April 22 2021 05: 25
      +9
      I'm 58 and I definitely won't see RCCs. for today's Russia is not the USSR, which flew into space 16 years after the Second World War, now, when the tsar is driving gas and oil to the west and east, there is nothing to wait, the ministers are dull, they only personify the rot of the system. 20 years of promises and getting up from his knees .... zadolbalo.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 22 2021 05: 49
        +9
        Quote: Aerodrome
        I'm 58 and I definitely won't see RCCs.

        I'm more, but I will definitely try - in spite of these talkers who hope that we will not live.
        ==========
        Russia is a country of the Kulibins and Lefties. People in the barn, on their knees with meager funds from the household budget, create machines and mechanisms that even seasoned Americans admire. For 30 years Russia has been listening to excuses about the impossibility of one or the other. But in fact, it is simply impossible to listen to this, irresponsible chatter. In the old days, such people would have been impaled, or given "... years without the right to correspond." And we have to contemplate from day to day their aging, filled with fat and hell knows what their faces and ... hope.
        Hope for what? That bees will oppose honey, or that they will harness a swan, crayfish, pike and quivering doe in one cart? They are not able to tear away from themselves. Therefore, they are recruited to the principle.
        1. WHAT IS
          WHAT IS April 22 2021 06: 28
          +11
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Russia is a country of the Kulibins and Lefties.

          With such handlers and effective managers as we have, only the Kulibins and Lefties have all hope.
        2. andrew42
          andrew42 April 23 2021 19: 46
          0
          This country will be ruined by the Manager. As soon as this word took root in us, it became clear - that's it, the end of the ballet. Of course, behind the signboard of the Manager there can be a really great organizing director, or a talented high-level technical specialist, or a really (and not on duty) creative PR person, or an enterprising huckster. It happens. But in the overwhelming majority of cases the Manager with all his collective image is such a manager who has grasped the "functionality", with a position, - give me "resources", I will manage them. And also a golden parachute. The personal typical strategy of the Manager is to promise a smart future to the "owner", to achieve local and temporary financial improvements for the show in the shortest possible time, ruin the systemic work at the same time, cut the perspective, and blame the specialists. This situation is evident in the mass of small and medium-sized companies. Why should "at the top" be different?
  8. shinobi
    shinobi April 22 2021 06: 11
    +11
    In general, the future station is more of an orbital shipyard. This is if you carefully read the statements of Rosskosmos, the main task of which is the assembly of manned spacecraft for long-distance missions. The purpose of a nuclear tug becomes clear. ready-made segments for assembly to the station.
    P.S. Thermal and radiation aging of materials, general wear of mechanisms, etc. Yes, just obsolescence. Therefore, a cascade failure of systems is not far off. Carrying out anology, imagine a car that was produced in '18, which was intensively operated without any full-fledged maintenance, carrying out minor cosmetic repairs. will she still hold out?
    1. Disant
      Disant April 22 2021 10: 07
      +2
      The purpose of the nuclear tug is becoming clear: it will carry ready-made segments for assembly from low support towers to the station.

      ROSS is going without a nuclear tug - Errr answered above in the comments.
      .
      - for lunar and other more or less short-term missions, the tug will operate from the orbit of the ROSS (Russian orbital station) and further into space there and back. ROSS will operate as a gas station (gas station) - it will refuel the Nucleon for Lunar Flights with xenon (iodine) for electric jet engines.
      .
      - for flights into deep space "Nucleon for Long-Range Flights" if they return for refueling, then only for the sake of experiment - why return a nuclear-electric power outlet from Jupiter's orbits? It is needed there - the fuel in the orbit of other planets and their satellites can not be particularly spent on maneuvers. You can sound everything to death there. In general, it will be necessary to look at the resource of a nuclear reactor - is it advisable to return to Earth's orbit for refueling with xenon (iodine).
      .
      - Also developing the King of geostationary orbits of the Earth - "NuclonGeostationar". They will hang in these orbits or pick up satellites, as you wrote, and drag them there. But I don't see the point of dragging - is there a canteen for eating satellites on the geostationary? Three or four Kings with a payload have been hanged - and that's enough.
      .
      In general, if the design is economically viable, I see no reason for expensive satellites to fly without a so-called tug.
      The cost of some American satellites is under 5BILLION. DOLLARS !!)))!. BILLION.! DOLLARS))
      so we are, for 3 BILLION rubles. a year FOR ALL Roscosmos can't afford five or two nuclear tugs? laughing
      1. shinobi
        shinobi April 23 2021 00: 30
        +1
        The current nucleon is a prototype. And it is not for long-distance flights. Initially it was stated that it would not fly beyond the reference moon. Then the scribblers turned everything over. The main task is to transport cargo from low orbits to higher ones. Plans for the construction of the ROSS station are going separately. from the use of the tug, it will be assembled according to the old and already worked out scheme.
        1. Disant
          Disant April 23 2021 01: 30
          +2
          The main task, the transportation of goods from low orbits to higher

          to drive a nuclear tug in low orbits is blasphemy and dangerous: a lot of rubbish.
          Most likely you are confusing with FEROM - a project of an interorbital tug, developed in the zero years.
          .
          And it is not for long-distance flights. Initially it was stated that it would not fly beyond the reference moon. It was then that the scribblers twisted everything.

          This year, they will only begin to develop specific options for the use of a nuclear tug, because there are a billion of them.
          The contract for the development of the preliminary design of the tug under the contract - until 2024.
          .
          What is posted from the options I wrote above:
          .
          - "Nucleon small for the Geostationary" for additional launch into the geostationary orbit - that is, to drag the satellite not in height, but primarily in the inclination of the orbit (A.S. Koroteev, scientific director of the MV Keldysh center, cost calculations). Cooling system - balls)). orbital raising was not discussed.
          .
          - "Nucleon for Lunar flights" (Solovyov V.A.-scientific director of the Faculty of Space Research, Lomonosov Moscow State University. Transport system Earth-Moon-Earth)
          .
          - "Nucleon for Long-Range Flights" (Rogozin DO. Route Earth-Venus-Moon Jupiter)
          .
          I will add - they will run in and put production ON THE FLOW - after all, the main method of movement in space for the next one hundred to two hundred years))) but then detonation engines with a mortar plate in the tail are stepping on the tail
          1. shinobi
            shinobi April 23 2021 12: 30
            0
            Wait and see
    2. Sarboz
      Sarboz April 25 2021 09: 47
      0
      Quote: shinobi
      PS: The author dragged the WORLD in vain, she was drowned due to the full development of all mental resources, at the time of the flooding the station was already completely dead and did not give in to resuscitation.

      It has been a long time since such statements about the Mir station have been heard. You yourself then imagine what you are talking about. The construction of the station was finally completed only in 1996! And in 1999 it had already exhausted all its resources and was de-orbited. Its architecture was such that any module could be replaced. The traitors in the government made the decision that was sent to them from overseas.
      It's simple, the Americans by that time dragged us into their ISS project, which they could not create without Russian experience. Since 1998, we have been engaged in the construction of our segment. The Americans could not allow Russia to have its own station. To flood the station, the late Nemtsov even attracted loans from commercial banks. They found the bastards of money to destroy their fully functional huge orbital station of 7 segments in order to build and maintain the American ISS. And they did not find money to update their modern station in a regular mode.
      1. shinobi
        shinobi April 26 2021 07: 19
        0
        Why didn't you update? You yourself answered your own question. The basic module on which everything was attached, how much did it hit at that time?, Was already completely finished. What should have been built in 5 years, they were building 15. , the fact that they are creatures is a fact, but without them everything fell apart. And MIR is still a continuation of the Salutes, and there the basic module rarely worked for more than 5-6 years.
  9. Li17
    Li17 April 22 2021 06: 50
    +4
    Iron is all good ... But where, or more precisely, where will the specialists come from. I do not mean the Rogozins and Serdyukovs, but real professionals who were trained in schools and institutes. Maybe someone will name what is left in this area?
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 22 2021 07: 52
      +2
      are cutting down rapidly ... there are few left
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 22 2021 12: 48
      0
      The space industry now employs over 50000 specialists under the age of 35.
      1. Sarboz
        Sarboz April 25 2021 10: 30
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        The space industry now employs over 50000 specialists under the age of 35.

        You don't understand anything. These are 50000 effective managers who have eaten away mum. All of them are children of the "journalist". drinks
    3. Sarboz
      Sarboz April 25 2021 10: 25
      0
      Quote: lithium17
      But where, or more precisely, where the specialists will come from. I do not mean the Rogozins and Serdyukovs, but real professionals who were trained in schools and institutes. Maybe someone will name what is left in this area?

      And what, Voenmekh, MAI, GUAP, MEPhI have already been closed? Samara State Aerospace University named after academician S.P. Korolev, Siberian State Aerospace University named after academician M.F. Reshetnev in Krasnoyarsk. Did the adversaries cover up everything?
  10. Niko
    Niko April 22 2021 07: 34
    +3
    The question "can we repeat it?" It is very indicative. Everyone goes forward, and very quickly, and we will think: "can we repeat the day before yesterday?" .And write again twenty years later that such a success is ONLY thanks to the
  11. The comment was deleted.
    1. Ronald Reagan
      Ronald Reagan April 22 2021 09: 07
      -1
      There is nothing wrong with cutting costs. wink
      1. novel66
        novel66 April 22 2021 10: 35
        0
        workers, good sir !! which then you will not take anywhere, and there will be no new ones, because there will be no one to teach !!
  12. Boris55
    Boris55 April 22 2021 08: 44
    -4
    Shoigu was appointed "overseer" for this project. rest assured - we will have our own station!
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 22 2021 10: 35
      0
      only if he gets up to the machine
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 April 22 2021 11: 17
        0
        Quote: novel xnumx
        only if he gets up to the machine

        Do you think that he is collecting hypersound and other new weapons in the taiga? laughing
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 22 2021 11: 18
          0
          I live in Korolev and what I know on Energia ... myself, only myself ..
  13. Volder
    Volder April 22 2021 10: 07
    -2
    Whether the Americans were on the moon or not is no longer relevant. A new lunar race is now underway! Russia has a chance to win by being the first to land on the moon, and here's why:
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 22 2021 10: 36
      -1
      no chance ... with such a guide - a dead end
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 April 22 2021 12: 54
        0
        The next 9 years will show everything and the Soyuz 5 ship Orel Angara 5P Angara 5V Amur LNG SV Wing satellite constellation Sphere YEPDU Nuclon super-heavy rocket Yenisei unmanned mini-spacecraft from NPO Molniya the second and third stages of the Vostochny cosmodrome new space station, etc. All of the above is already being done not in words but in deeds.
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 22 2021 14: 07
          -2
          yah?? nicely...
        2. 3danimal
          3danimal April 22 2021 23: 51
          -3
          What is the vulnerability of such statements:
          they forget that the competitor who has the best results here and now (Falcon Heavy, in high - flight within the next year - the SLS rocket is ready) will sit on the fence and wait for Rogozin to bring everything up and organize.
          With a budget difference of 10 times ..
          https://tass.ru/ekonomika/7734535/amp

          Moreover, it is clearly not possible to increase the financial return 10 times by paying pennies to Russian engineers.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal April 22 2021 23: 42
      -1
      Here the question is: who now has the most lifting rocket?
      SpaceX has 63t on LEO (flies regularly).
      SLS is in a high state of readiness, the first launch at the end of the 21st - the first half of the 22nd year. And her 95t on LEO is displayed, in further plans - to bring up to 130t, "catching up" with Saturn-5.
      You need something similar to Roscosmos to talk about victory.
      About the Apollo program: in those years, NASA received a gigantic funding of 4-5% of the entire (very) rather large US budget. In subsequent years - around 1%. And the launch of Saturn 5 cost about $ 3,5 billion in modern prices.
  14. sevtrash
    sevtrash April 22 2021 10: 45
    -1
    It is quite possible that the Americans just need the refusal of Russia from the ISS - but they no longer need the Russian segment, they have already received everything from cooperation. Actually, constant leaks can be the reason for the refusal from the Russian segment by both the Americans and Russia. Nothing can be done, and the danger is for everyone. And the Americans and Europeans have already bypassed the Russian part of the ISS in terms of equipment, convenience, and functionality. Financial and intellectual resources are incomparable. Perhaps this is also a reason for creating (or declaring the creation) of your own station - such as direct comparison is impossible and the lag will not be so striking.
    So, the ISS, apparently, will remain, but without the Russian segment.
    Will they be able to build their own station? The groundwork is there, the carriers seem to be too. So, yes, they can. Of course, if there is a financial component. The level of research carried out by Americans, Europeans, and Japanese will not be - again, incomparable financial and intellectual resources - but it will be possible to solve some of our tasks. Whether it will be worth the resources spent is a big question. It may be cheaper to send automatic stations. And in general, there are a lot of problems with various satellites that need to be done, updated, etc. From this point of view, an inhabited station is too luxurious, the Chinese will pull, Russia is unlikely.
    And at the heart of everything is the level of the economy, which is not encouraging. Add to it the level of cutting (theft, that is). And sanctions, of course. So, first, a normal economy, limiting theft-sawing, resuming cooperation with the United States and the rest of the developed world, only then the station. But there are no prospects for this, those who are in power and live so well for themselves, and the biomass / electorate can be told different tales, eat where they go.
  15. Old26
    Old26 April 22 2021 14: 32
    +6
    Quote: Cosm22
    Why post this nonsense the second time in a row?

    And I thought that I had already started glitches. However, no.
    Dear Achilles, if you have already copied your post into this topic, then I will answer you a second time. so

    Quote: Achilles
    I hope that the new orbital station will be called Mir-2

    Without touching the prices for the withdrawal, I propose to consider the reality of what you are offering

    As for the name of the station, I think that it will hardly be called by the same name (albeit with an alphanumeric index). In fact, the ISS was a variant of the station, made on the basis of developments for Mir-2 and Freedom. Rather, they will call it something else, for example, "Rus"

    Quote: Achilles
    If the construction of a new DOS (long-term orbital station) is carried out only by means of rockets such as the Proton (cargo mass = 22 tons), then 20 launches will cost the Russian treasury $ 1,5-2 billion.


    The whole question is, will the Proton launch vehicle be operated by the time we plan a new station ??? And if Proton will not be used, then on the basis of what carrier?

    Quote: Achilles
    If Energia does the same (cargo mass = 98 tons, 4-5 launches), then the amount will be the same, approximately $ 1,4-1,7 billion.


    Exactly this WILL NOT DO "Energy". Simply due to the fact that the "Energy" carrier does not exist now. And who should do it? Then "Energia" was made by the whole Soviet Union, but now ??? Isn't it easier to make a new super heavy one ??

    Quote: Achilles
    When using MAKS, a multipurpose aerospace system (cargo mass = 30 tons), the same 20 launches will cost $ 100-150 million. True, the creation of MAKS will cost about $ 2 billion.


    MAKS was designed for a payload of 5-8 tons, but no more. If we take into account your load of 30 tons, then the shuttle should have dimensions close to the "Buran". And its take-off weight was 105 tons of EMNIP. Plus a tank with fuel, How many hundreds of tons should this aircraft have a carrying capacity ????

    Quote: Achilles
    What will Roscosmos choose?

    From what you suggested, most likely NOTHING
  16. Martin
    Martin April 22 2021 15: 32
    0
    In fact - deeply welcome. But at the same time there is an understanding that everything is not easy.
    "It's just that only cats will be born." ©
    For some reason, many authors on VO criticize Russian reality in such a way that they wanted to and, oh!, Everything should appear at the snap of their fingers. And they also cite Musk or the United States as an example. You might think that they have all the wishes come up "at once". I assure you not. "Even though it's strange to you" ©
    In addition to the presence / absence of specialists, technologies, effective managers, etc. (emphasize the necessary, delete the unnecessary) there is also such a concept - resources. They are not unlimited. There are exactly as many of them as the state was able to earn. And the issue of priorities for the distribution of these resources determines, among other things, the possibilities of space projects. What is more important TODAY, "guns" or "butter"? I'm not talking about Russia, this is about any state. the Americans launched a helicopter on Mars and received 5 grams of oxygen from carbon dioxide (ibid.). Well done. How much money is spent on this? And how many lives could this money save from covid? Priorities, priorities ...
    For a long time and sluggishly made modules for the Russian segment? I think it's a matter of resources. Throw in some money - everyone runs in as if they were looking. Will it be possible to complete these segments and assemble a Russian station from them? It will succeed if ... If the resources planned for this are not diverted to some next "fire" in the form of a pandemic, a dam break, unfriendly actions of "sworn friends", etc.
    By the way, about "friends". The aforementioned American "lunar" or "hotel" plans will also be fulfilled only if there is a priority for resources. They are not limitless among the amers, they are not limitless. Here is the US leaving Afghanistan. Why would that? Is the peacefulness off scale? Not. Resources were needed elsewhere. Where? God knows! Maybe the same pandemic, or maybe Navalny will pay extra. Although, no, Navalny is also a closed project. Well, it means that the fighters guarding the White House will be transferred to the salary.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. vadim dok
    vadim dok April 22 2021 16: 27
    0
    ISS Russia and others
  19. Alexander Ivanov_10
    Alexander Ivanov_10 April 22 2021 17: 32
    -1
    There was NO mockery of the Mask! Review. There were warnings about the response to the sanctions. Don't be confused !!!
    One manned flight of Musk does not mean anything yet. The Shuttle program also began with fanfare. A total of 14 dead astronauts. Kingdom them heavenly. The Americans knew about the defective seals of the solid fuel accelerator and about the falling off heat and thermal protection.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 22 2021 17: 50
      +4
      "One manned flight of Musk does not mean anything yet." Actually, there were two and the third will be the other day. The Shuttle program also began with fanfare. A total of 14 dead astronauts. Yes, because NASA was greedy for the Shuttle design and Congress refused from the SAS system catapults, as well as from the heat-resistant chromium-nickel-titanium alloy for the shuttle hull - if all this were all 14 astronauts had survived. and they would be alive and well.
      1. Alexander Ivanov_10
        Alexander Ivanov_10 April 23 2021 10: 03
        +2
        Good two. But not 50 years of trouble-free flights (without the death of astronauts). Yes, NASA was greedy. Is Musk not? We just don't know yet.
        There are problems in our astronautics, I do not argue (and who does not have them?). But it is not necessary to paint ours with black paint, but theirs - pink. Everything can be fixed, if there is a desire.
        Can they repeat the flight to the moon? If, of course, they were there?
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal April 23 2021 21: 46
          -2
          But not 50 years of trouble-free flights (without the death of astronauts). Yes, NASA was greedy. Is Musk not? We just don't know yet.

          Time will pass, the result will be visible.
          Musk has significantly reduced the cost of launching a commercial satellite, that's a fact.
      2. Alexander Ivanov_10
        Alexander Ivanov_10 April 27 2021 08: 16
        0
        Musk said that the conquest of Mars will require human sacrifice.
        Already justified in advance https://aif.ru/society/science/mask_zayavil_chto_pokorenie_marsa_potrebuet_chelovecheskih_zhertv
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal April 27 2021 19: 54
          0
          You can remember how cosmonauts died in the 60s. Raw technologies request
          The difficulty is in what: if an accident occurred on the Moon (or on the way to it, as on Apollo 13), the crew can be returned in 3 days.
          The flight to Mars / back takes at least 3 months, to the optimal positions of the planets.
          And if someone needs complex qualified help, then you may not have time to bring it home.
  20. 16112014nk
    16112014nk April 22 2021 17: 58
    +3
    ... can we repeat it, or what?
    First, we need to make a "left turn" in economics and politics. Only then will it be possible to "repeat".
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal April 22 2021 23: 31
      -2
      Left - is it to a planned economy?
      You must have missed grocery coupons request
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 16: 26
        0
        We recently discussed the introduction of food coupons during our right turn. And in the same spiritless USA, they have been available for a long time. But evil, of course, is exclusively a left turn. Yeah. "This is different." By the way, plans in the economy do not interfere with China.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal April 27 2021 19: 15
          0
          In China, all the most developed industries are represented by private companies and there is a market economy, did you know?
          This is by no means a hindrance for conducting domestic policy with a social bias, the Swedes will not let them lie.
          Are there coupons in the US? That is, without them they will NOT sell you butter in the store ?? laughing
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 19: 32
            0
            Quote: 3danimal
            there is a market economy, didn't you know?

            They knew.
            Quote: 3danimal
            This is by no means a hindrance for conducting domestic policy with a social bias, the Swedes will not let them lie.

            Social policy is when benefactors from the surplus value squeezed out of you throw something on the social network so that tomorrow, angry, you don't stick a pitchfork in their side?
            Quote: 3danimal
            Are there coupons in the US? That is, without them they will NOT sell you butter in the store ??

            They will sell if there is money. And if there is no money, then "go from here boy, no one promised to feed on the way to the bright capitalist future."
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal April 27 2021 20: 30
              0
              no one promised to feed. "

              "Those who do not work eat irregularly and in canteens for homeless people."
              I worked, studied, and continue to work in a large company. I chose a direction that is always in demand (electricity, energy).
              And the money is quite enough.
              Also there. Those few acquaintances who left, as one say: if you work, want to work, you will not be in poverty.
              There are a lot of Russian-speaking bloggers talking about their arrangement in different countries.
              benefactors from the surplus value squeezed out of you throw something on the social network so that tomorrow, angry, you don't stick a pitchfork in their side?

              Wrung out? A contract is concluded with the employee. He, depending on his ambitions and demand, chooses an employer himself.
              The employer pays taxes, which are quite high in Sweden. (Just imagine for a second that you are ... the owner of a small car service.)
              And the government for a large part of them (this is where the welfare state is manifested) pays for citizens' education, travel by public transport, organizes inexpensive municipal housing and NOT beggarly pensions.
              In the Union, in the same way, the profit from the plant went to the budget (but you did not know how large its share is).
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 20: 44
                0
                Quote: 3danimal
                I worked, studied, and continue to work in a large company. I chose a direction that is always in demand (electricity, energy).

                Well done.
                Quote: 3danimal
                Those few acquaintances who left, as one say: if you work, want to work, you will not be in poverty.

                In "this country" you can also live well. Not even bothering yourself too much with work. Muchooooo better than any Nicaraguans, Somalis or Haitians with Indians.
                Quote: 3danimal
                Wrung out? A contract is concluded with the employee.

                Well yes. And the treaty has nothing to do with it. This is the basic mezzanism of the capitalist system. It is strange that an adherent of capitalism does not know about this.
                Quote: 3danimal
                In the Union, the profit from the plant went to the budget in the same way.

                No, not the same. There was no squeezing out of surplus value in the USSR. And other exploitation of man by man. Under the USSR, all profits went to the budget. Under capitalism, only a fraction. The capitalist puts the other part into his pocket. That is, the money that you earned is received by someone else and spends not in your favor, but in your favor.
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal April 27 2021 21: 09
                  0
                  Muchooooo better than any Nicaraguans, Somalis or Haitians with Indians.

                  Let's bring some more savages of the Amazon, they have survival every day.
                  The capitalist puts the other part into his pocket.

                  Have you ever thought that from this profit put into your pocket you need to pay salaries, a social package, purchase equipment, materials, update equipment and make repairs to premises? Pay for advertising, to sell products?
                  Yes, payments to top managers are extremely overstated in our country (especially in state corporations, compare the incomes of Sechin and Tim Cook).
                  But in a number of developed countries (Japan, for example) the head of the company receives about 10 average (for the enterprise) salaries.
                  And the profit is made by .. shareholders.
                  For example. I bought 3 years ago a certain number of shares of my company and apart from my salary, 90-100 thousand rubles “fall” on the card once a quarter.
                  There are many countries where an excellent balance has been built and the presence of private property does not interfere with the high standard of living of the majority of citizens.
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 21: 54
                    0
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    Let's bring some more savages of the Amazon, they have survival every day.

                    Why not? Everything is relative. Russians live much better than the vast majority of the population of this planet.
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    Have you ever thought that from this profit put into your pocket you need to pay salaries, social benefits, purchase equipment, materials, update equipment and repair premises?

                    Have you ever thought about how, before writing, to put it mildly, it is not very smart to read what is surplus value?
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    Yes, payments to top managers are extremely overstated in our country (especially in state corporations, compare the incomes of Sechin and Tim Cook).

                    It's not about how much Tim Cook or Sechin gets. The fact is that capitalism is a constant decrease in costs and therefore the growth in the income of an employee is seriously lagging behind the growth in labor productivity. Wages in different countries vary greatly in terms of purchasing power. And also a carriage and a cart of all sorts of bad things. But those who are well settled in the current system often simply do not understand this. The brain refuses to perceive the harsh reality so it is more convenient for it, well, until the pitchfork flies to the side.
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal April 27 2021 22: 39
                      0
                      The brain refuses to perceive the harsh reality so it is more convenient for it, well, until the pitchfork flies to the side.

                      Is that a hairpin to me ??
                      I was born and lived all my life in a city with not the best ecology and climate.
                      But good salaries. I have been working for 17 years.
                      The fact is that capitalism is a constant decrease in costs and therefore the growth in the income of an employee is seriously lagging behind the growth in labor productivity.

                      Looks like you've read a lot of campaign material. smile
                      A concrete example: you have a car service.
                      The prices for the Services are competitive. You hire several workers, offering them average wages in a given area. Bonuses / increases the salary of more valuable specialists. In many countries, it is practiced to give them a share in the business.
                      You have to: pay taxes, rent land / premises, loan for equipment, purchase new + consumables.
                      Yes, in the end you are left with several times the salary of an ordinary auto mechanic. But the business management is on you, the risks, it was your idea and initiative.
                      And he just comes to work.
                      Again, if you try to reduce salaries, you will lose specialists, they will go to less greedy employers.
                      Something like this. Don't get too deep in theory. There was such a subject from which all the techies (including my parents) spat - "scientific communism". The rear verdict is boltology. smile
                      1. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 April 28 2021 09: 41
                        0
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Is that a hairpin to me ??

                        This is not a hairpin and not specifically to you. So, a statement of fact. There are a lot of people like you.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Looks like you've read a lot of campaign material.

                        You see, what I am writing about, I came to this on my life experience. Although, yes, I also read campaign materials and other books on the topic.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        A concrete example: you have a car service.

                        This particular example of nichrome does not speak of the general situation. But in fact, we often have a fucking owner of a car service and people who work for food for an irregular working day.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Again, if you try to reduce salaries, you will lose specialists, they will go to less greedy employers.

                        Why cut wages? Just don't index them normally in the inflation rate and you can set the price for services lower. And leaving for another is not always an option. There may be no vacancies, the salary is the same or lower, the commute to work is far away, and there are still a lot of economic and non-economic reasons.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        There was such a subject from which all the techies (including my parents) spat - "scientific communism". The rear verdict is boltology.

                        The fact that you are a techie does not insure you against misunderstanding of any things. Your parents didn’t understand the question and didn’t understand the word at all. And they are not alone. There are still billions of them on the planet.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        And he just comes to work.

                        Gorgeous. And of course it does nothing there? And you pay him purely out of the kindness of your heart? And if it weren't for the workers, would you do everything yourself?
  21. 3danimal
    3danimal April 22 2021 18: 28
    +1
    treacherously de-orbited and sunk in the ocean "as unnecessary."

    Again "Lament of Yaroslavna" ...
    Inquire about the state of the station at the end of the 90s, orbital altitude and opportunities to raise it.
    1. Non-fighter
      Non-fighter April 22 2021 18: 43
      +4
      As practice shows, 20-25 years is the maximum service life for a module, then everything starts to crumble. Along the cracks in the transition compartment - so the Mir was made in the same way, the cracks did not have time to appear.
      On the postponement of the launch times of the modules to the right in order to use them in our station ... please note that any object with an atmosphere is a sealed sieve. Gaskets, sealants, etc. Yes, and cable routes, plastic parts .. The list goes on. Everything has a lifespan. They have been doing "Science" since 1995. I read open sources, and that's not all, and it seems to me that either it is being launched now to fly at least five years, or for scrapping here on earth :(
  22. Simargl
    Simargl April 22 2021 19: 29
    +2
    The problem of the WORLD is a radial docking scheme and an almost obvious desire to determine the resource of the elements.
    The ISS problem is a radial sequential scheme.
    Without a docking ring, changing modules is a chore.
    And the ring scheme is a large number of modules (at least 8 if the docking / swivel is separate).
  23. bk0010
    bk0010 April 22 2021 21: 32
    +4
    "Mir", treacherously de-orbited and flooded in the ocean "as unnecessary."
    Not treacherously, but just in time: Mir worked for 3 terms, the news constantly reported about repairs in orbit (no, and the repairs gave valuable experience, but there must be time for the main tasks), they managed to flood before the dead appeared.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx April 23 2021 06: 50
      +2
      Everyone had already forgotten that everything was falling there one after another. But ... Betrayal is everywhere. wink
  24. mmaxx
    mmaxx April 23 2021 06: 48
    0
    The following phrase clearly speaks of the author's competence against the Rogozins and Borisovs:
    "If I were in the place of the leadership of Roskosmos (God forbid, of course), I would find microcracks that do not allow to pass tests for leaks, rust somewhere, in short, I would simply delay the launch of Nauka into space to the maximum. "
    Here it is clear that Rogozin is at least responsible for something (at least for money), and the author only knows how it should be.
    The money has been spent, the work has been done, there is no launch. Who is guilty? Leadership. Who is right? Critics. It's funny. The work ends with the launch. And payment goes on completion. And here - to delay the launch until no one knows what ... Good advice.
    wassat
  25. EvilLion
    EvilLion April 23 2021 11: 31
    -2
    And the Su-57 is not serial. I remind you.
  26. Phoenix
    Phoenix April 23 2021 12: 15
    +4
    A waterfall of empty words, repeating the same thing three times in different formulations ... Was it worth writing such an article if it was possible to list the modules under construction in one paragraph?
    From the important thing that the author missed:
    -Station visited, not inhabited
    -Orbit is polar and higher, this opens up the possibility of observing the entire surface of the Earth
    -The ROSS project provides for the assembly of satellites, docking of interplanetary ships, refueling
    -The implementation period is super short, which means that the work has been going on for a long time and confidently.
  27. Hog
    Hog April 23 2021 13: 54
    0
    So can we repeat it, or what?

    Hope we can do it again.
    PS: Hope dies last!
  28. lazy
    lazy April 23 2021 15: 05
    +1
    first understand which one is needed? continuation of the fireworks, peace, microseconds to take a blood test 100500 times? I was still a schoolboy as the following questions were posed; obtaining new materials in zero gravity, the possibility of a long stay in human space, the possibility of growing plants for nutrition and production of oxygen. In fact, the materials are bad at the station, microgravity and vibration, so the materials are better on some smaller satellites, neither tomatoes nor tanks with chlorella, but the merit of the USSR and Russia that a person can be in space for more than a year, but a flight to Mars and even the Moon is an open question since in the years under the radiation belts, even the Bion satellites were not launched above. while the USSR was spending money on the station, the Americans launched voyagers and the Hubble, and now we have only American data on the distant outskirts of the system and space. I'm not saying that the station is not needed, the question is what so as not to crush the water in the mortar. well, inform taxpayers about what they are doing there (and this is not a video of how cosmonauts catch water balls with their mouths) let them be inferior to the hubble pictures in terms of entertainment, but at least understanding why they are all spinning and spinning there
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. Basarev
    Basarev April 23 2021 17: 59
    0
    But most likely, with the fall of the ISS, Russian space will end. By that time, the Americans will be carrying astronauts on their reusable rockets for several years - more and cheaper. I'm afraid we will have to buy seats ... And they may not be provided. Europeans, too, seem to move in reusability, and if not, they will not have any problems, the Americans will cordially let their friends in. Do you really have to bow to the Chinese in space?
  31. looker-on
    looker-on April 23 2021 18: 12
    0
    Like a fly in the ointment about the fact that there is someone to build and create. It looks like soon there will be no one (:
    The outflow of scientists and highly qualified specialists from Russia has accelerated 9 times over the past 5 years. This was announced on Tuesday by the Chief Scientific Secretary of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) Nikolai Dolgushkin during the General Meeting of the Academy.
    According to him, the massive departure of scientific personnel to work abroad "plays an important role" in the catastrophic reduction in the number of researchers in Russia.
    If in 2012 14 thousand scientists left the country every year, now it is already 70 thousand. "Russia is the only developed country where the number of scientists has been decreasing for several decades in a row," TASS quoted Dolgushkin as saying.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal April 23 2021 21: 53
      -1
      The outflow of scientists and highly qualified specialists from Russia has accelerated 9 times over the past 5 years. This was announced on Tuesday by the Chief Scientific Secretary of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) Nikolai Dolgushkin during the General Meeting of the Academy.

      It is not surprising, given the many examples when the Chekists "nightmare" scientists.
      I discussed something NOT secret with my colleagues (and modern research suggests a similar thing, science is international), the person was soldered to a “high treason”. Major received a bonus and a promotion - profit request
      The second point is the poor organization of research, you can wait a very long time for equipment or materials for research (and this takes up the time of maximum human activity).
      The third is salaries. Here I recall the "solemn" establishment of a minimum of 17000 rubles for young scientists in one of the regions ..
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 16: 28
        0
        Quote: 3danimal
        Here I recall the "solemn" establishment of a minimum of 17000 rubles for young scientists in one of the regions

        Well, not in writing to the market. What's wrong? Capitalist Adept Don't Like Side Effects?
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal April 27 2021 19: 18
          0
          This is different. For some reason, they did not fit only into OUR market.
          A lot of them travel to other countries and are in demand there. Therefore, the problem is in our internal priorities.
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 19: 41
            0
            Quote: 3danimal
            For some reason, they did not fit only into OUR market.

            Is it only ours? Are you hiding something from us?
            Quote: 3danimal
            A lot of them travel to other countries and are in demand there.

            Maybe the climate is better there. And in general, unclaimed losers with awesome CSV and crooked hands often dump.
            Quote: 3danimal
            Therefore, the problem is in our internal priorities.

            What are these priorities?
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal April 27 2021 19: 58
              0
              Maybe the climate is better there

              Probably. Business climate, investment.
              And in general, unclaimed losers with awesome PSV and crooked hands often dump.

              Let me tell you a secret - it's always a tricky decision. And usually those who can easily find work leave. Scientists, programmers.
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 20: 04
                0
                Quote: 3danimal
                Business climate, investment.

                Nifiga did not understand. So who are we talking about? About effective managers or scientists? They, in theory, should be engaged in science, and not bargain.
                Quote: 3danimal
                Let me tell you a secret - it's always a tricky decision. And usually those who can easily find work leave.

                In the 90s, everyone fell. So yours is usually a very loose concept. And now, often reaching the pinnacle of success, such as working as a dishwasher at McDonald's, these people teach us about life through your Internet.
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal April 27 2021 20: 17
                  0
                  Has something happened since 2012?
                  https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4782133

                  A short video, watch to the end:
                  https://youtu.be/1CEWPz_dfq4
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 20: 32
                    0
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    Has something happened since 2012?

                    Something happened much earlier. For example, in 1991 we became a country of backward peripheral capitalism. With all the accompanying consequences. Here, of course, a lot can be remembered. All this set of objective circumstances led to what we have at the moment. And what do you suggest? How can this state of affairs be corrected? What are the prerequisites for this in the framework of the current OEF?
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal April 27 2021 20: 42
                      0
                      Common words.
                      In a fragment of the interview, a specific problem is indicated that prompted a very good specialist to leave - poor organization and logistics of research.
                      For example, in 1991 we became a country of backward peripheral capitalism

                      And at 88-90m you were shining with health? Do you remember coupons, empty counters?
                      1. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 April 27 2021 21: 15
                        0
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        In a fragment of the interview, a specific problem is indicated that prompted a very good specialist to leave - poor organization and logistics of research.

                        It is strange that the logistics did not prevent the developers of the same vaccine against the coronavirus, or, say, physicists in Dubna are poorly organized to synthesize new elements.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        And at 88-90m you were shining with health? Do you remember coupons, empty counters?

                        No, they did not shine. And yet, yes, I remember. But if on the way to socialism we took a very wrong turn, then the rollback to the previous OEF was generally a fabulous permanent breaking through of the bottoms. With which can only be compared with the Great Patriotic War or the Mongol-Tatar invasion. And science is not in a vacuum. There are no enterprises for which development is required, there is no payment for development. The majority, including you, simply do not realize the scale of the tragedy. Yes, in the west there is better science. But all these are tears in comparison with the fact that we could be able to break through to real socialism.
                      2. 3danimal
                        3danimal April 27 2021 22: 17
                        0
                        It is strange that the logistics did not prevent the developers of the same vaccine against the coronavirus, or, say, physicists in Dubna are poorly organized to synthesize new elements.

                        Individual successes do not change the whole picture.
                        And there are already about a dozen vaccines in the world.
                        But if on the road to socialism we took a very wrong turn,

                        Yes, there is no special road. Nothing is free, the social sector perfectly exists with high taxes in a developed economy (in Sweden, for 10 million people, the budget is 4/5 of ours).
                        then rollback to the previous OEF

                        Well, yes, the Bolsheviks said that the system they were building was the most advanced (all those who disagreed were expelled, imprisoned or killed) good
                        No, they did not shine. And yet, yes, I remember.

                        And the most interesting thing is that coupons were (with short interruptions) all the years of the existence of the USSR.
                        Most, including you, simply do not realize the scale of the tragedy

                        How can I remember that we switched to "you"?
                        I am aware of the scale we have reached after 70 years of rape in the economy. The collapse would have occurred earlier, but the sale of hydrocarbons helped out for some time.
                        Oil dollars with which went to a noticeable increase in military spending, instead of reforms in the spirit of NEP-2. (What the Chinese did).
                        if we can break through to real socialism.

                        Let's talk about the terms:
                        What is real "socialism"?
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                      5. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 April 28 2021 12: 49
                        0
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        What difference does it make if the Swedish government is guided (in practice) by the wishes of the voters? Which do not do to cancel the social program yet.
                        (Although this is not always about efficiency).

                        And what about nothing but Sweden? There is also Haiti, which is also a capitalist state. India is there too. And shining hail on the hill If you look in this direction, not everything turns out so unambiguously? smile
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Neither side canceled all previous laws and courts, replacing them with a roar. tribunals.

                        Quote: 3danimal
                        And I am not guided by emotions, I just compare the numbers.

                        You really decide somehow. Guided or not.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        In the US Civil War, 620-750 thousand people died.
                        We have about 10 million.

                        Wikipedia says something about a million dead. She also speaks of the total US population of about 31,5 million at that time. At the same time, the country was not exhausted by the world war, the climate and yields are better. We have 175 million people in 1917. So count it. In general, it's all lyrics. Twice as much, half as much. Different circumstances, different degrees of bitterness, different numbers of victims, and there is no need to make something terrible out of the Bolsheviks. Your capitalists killed a lot more people in the First World War, and you are not making any claims to them. You only get hysterical from the Bolsheviks.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        How about China? Xiaoping took and introduced the NEP, his country is now 2 the world's economy.

                        Yeah, and China also received markets for technology and investment. Just.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        And when did it belong to the people in the USSR?
                        It was built from above, the tops; whitewashed in the civil Lenin and company) imposed the will on the lower classes.

                        You don't understand how it works at all. You will never impose anything on anyone if there are no objective prerequisites for that.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Motivation to work is tied to physiology, which cannot be avoided.
                        Utopia.

                        I've already heard this stupidity a hundred times. If you do not distinguish yourself from the monkey at all, then this is very sad. Although ... maybe you're not so wrong in this case.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        The Khmer Rouge is another example.

                        So what? Humanity has made thousands of such terrible mistakes. Do you want me to hysterical with you at the mention of the Khmers? I'm not going to do that. I have always been, is and will be sorry for people who have become victims of tragic mistakes and someone else's greed. But I will not fight in a hypocritical hysteria.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Absolutization and passing it off as the only true one is sectarianism.

                        Note, I said that it is not necessary to turn the teaching of Marx into a dogma, and you began to scream that I am absolutizing it. Demagogy detective.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Yeah, become the number 1 economy

                        This is if they are given. Once upon a time there was a lot of talk about Japan and the USSR was the second economy and showed high growth rates, and what is the result? You only see it in the elven books about the economics of fair competition. But in reality, trade wars, protectionism and finally a war of iron and blood.
                      6. 3danimal
                        3danimal April 28 2021 21: 43
                        0
                        Once upon a time there was a lot of talk about Japan and the USSR was the second economy and showed high growth rates, and what is the result?

                        The union did not carry out market reforms (NEP), collapsed. Growth rates (in tons of cast iron, liters of milk turned out to be biased and exaggerated). Total inefficiency of the commanders of the economy.
                        Japan has become the third economy in the world.
                        Their budget is 6 times ours (Chinese - 10 times).
                        Different circumstances, different degrees of bitterness, different numbers of victims, and there is no need to make something terrible out of the Bolsheviks.

                        You really decide somehow. Guided or not.



                        The terror continued after the end of hostilities.
                        Lenin overturned the old laws and courts, introducing roaring tribunals guided by "revolutionary instincts." An immense field for lawlessness, does not come to mind ??
                        If you do not distinguish yourself from the monkey at all, then this is very sad.

                        Are you descended from people from the planet Nibiru? laughing (and not from a common ancestor with a monkey?)
                        Motivation for work should be conditioned by material benefits. And not with posters in the entrance.
                        All this was clearly manifested in the Union.
                        Subscriptions, eyewash.
                        You will never impose anything on anyone if there are no objective prerequisites for that.

                        But you realized everything No.
                        The same USA was formed "from below", on mutually beneficial terms.
                        The Bolsheviks imposed their will on the civilian parts of Russia conquered during the course. They planted their local leadership.
                        Yeah, and China also received markets for technology and investment. Just.

                        And the Union had the CMEA. It was necessary to engage in reforms. But in the 70s, oil prices increased and they decided not to strain.
                        Wikipedia says something about a million dead.

                        I took the death toll from Wikipedia. About a million were injured.
                        And what about nothing but Sweden? There is also Haiti, which is also a capitalist state. India is there too.

                        Why look up to the worst?
                        There are developed countries. Norway, Finland, Switzerland. France.
                      7. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 April 28 2021 23: 01
                        0
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Japan has become the third economy in the world.

                        But she did not become the first.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        The union did not carry out market reforms (NEP), collapsed.

                        Or, on the contrary, it collapsed due to the transition to a market economy.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        The terror continued after the end of hostilities.

                        So what? Hand face. Will you be bored for a long time with your fabulous elven views on history?
                        I see this terror continues to this day, so you just can't calm down.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Are you descended from people from the planet Nibiru?

                        Of course not. Only I have somewhat left in my development from a common ancestor with monkeys. You apparently did not succeed. By the way, I wonder, do you motivate with bananas?
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Motivation for work should be conditioned by material benefits.

                        Motivation owes nothing to anyone.
                        The growth of productive forces will lead to the fact that material benefits, if they will motivate, then only minimally. This is the question of motivation.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        But you realized everything

                        Not everything, but I realized this long ago.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        The same USA was formed "from below", on mutually beneficial terms.
                        The Bolsheviks imposed their will on the civilian parts of Russia conquered during the course. They planted their local leadership.

                        As much as the blood from the eyes almost went. Don't write that anymore. Try to impose your will alone in your enterprise. I believe you will succeed. How do you become a gendir write congratulations.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        And the Union had the CMEA.

                        I didn't talk about that a bit. And so yes CMEA was not arguing.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        It was necessary to engage in reforms.

                        And I don’t argue here. Only not by those who irrevocably moved the country towards capitalism.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        I took the death toll from Wikipedia. About a million were injured.

                        Dead, missing civilians. About a million.
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Why look up to the worst?

                        USA is the worst? This one is very insulting to Biden you said. And yet, yes, we must consider all the capitalist countries, otherwise it will not be objective. But yes, I understand it is more convenient for you. In general, a good technique. Consider the average standard of living, say Russians, focusing exclusively on the oligarchs. This is generally a fairy tale turns out then according to this method. Each of them has a yacht worth half a billion and 10 billions in their account. laughing
  • squid
    squid April 24 2021 06: 02
    -1
    No need to "repeat". Orbital stations are not needed. Manned space is not needed. Waste ineffective waste of a lot of money. The costs are huge and there is no return. As it was once aptly noted, "one Hubble telescope provided more scientific data than all the orbital stations combined." But reusable rockets are needed. As well as overhead satellite platforms, interorbital tugs, etc., etc. And the budget for them is not rubber. So the recent decision to recreate the ancient "world" in orbit is a rainy day for Russian space.
    1. Tambov-there is god
      Tambov-there is god April 24 2021 15: 00
      0
      And Hollywood and Hubla will outwit. Carrying a blizzard.
  • Tambov-there is god
    Tambov-there is god April 24 2021 14: 59
    0
    Don't like Rogozin and Borisov? Entrust this case to Zyuganov and Rashkin, they will do it. Yeah.
  • anclevalico
    anclevalico April 27 2021 07: 55
    -1
    We will not repeat it with Rogozin.
  • Tambov-there is god
    Tambov-there is god April 28 2021 21: 36
    0
    I think that P-stan will not bring reusable ships to real operation. And Hollywood won't help here.