1600 kg of thrust. New tests of a ramjet pulsating detonation engine

In order to create a technological reserve for further development aviation, rocket technology and astronautics in our country, several promising projects are being developed, incl. a fundamentally new engine. Recently, it was announced that tests of a ramjet pulsating detonation engine were completed. So far, only the technology demonstrator has been tested at the stand, but even it shows a significant increase in the main characteristics.

Latest news

On April 9, the press service of the UEC-UMPO enterprise (part of the United Engine Corporation and Rostec) reported on the latest successes in the field of engine building. OKB im. A.M. The cradles from the UEC-UMPO have successfully carried out the first stage of testing the demonstrator of the new engine.

The direct-flow pulsating detonation engine (PPDD) with a block of gas-dynamic resonators in the demonstrator version confirmed the possibility of obtaining high technical characteristics. The thrust of the product reached 1600 kg. In some modes, the engine showed an increase in specific thrust up to 50% relative to products of other existing schemes. The specific fuel consumption was reduced accordingly.

The use of engines with such characteristics will significantly increase the basic parameters and capabilities of aircraft. The maximum range and payload can be increased by 1,3-1,5 times. An increase in thrust-to-weight ratio will also improve maneuverability and flight dynamics.

It should be noted that the development of a domestic ramjet detonation engine began a long time ago. The first reports about this project, developed at the OKB im. The cradles appeared back in 2011. Already in 2013, one of the first experimental engines was tested. He created a thrust of only 100 kg, but showed a sharp increase in efficiency and other parameters.

In the future, the design was improved and increased in size, with a simultaneous increase in key characteristics. To date, the demonstrator engine has a thrust of 1600 kg - 16 times more than the very first prototype. It is expected that the current project will be developed, and thanks to this, an even more powerful engine will appear.

Technological fundamentals

The concept of the RPME or pulse detonation engine (PDE) has been actively developed in different countries over the past several decades. In the conditions of laboratories and test benches, quite interesting results have already been obtained, but not a single engine of a new class has yet reached implementation in practice.

To date, several basic designs of the IDD have been developed and tested. The simplest one involves the creation of a product that includes an air intake device, the so-called. traction wall and detonation tube-chamber. When the air-fuel mixture burns, a detonation wave is formed, hitting the traction wall and creating thrust. On the basis of such devices, multitube engines can be created.

More complex, but effective is the PDD with a high-frequency resonator. Its design is distinguished by the presence of a reactor and a resonator. The reactor is a special device that provides a more complete combustion of the air-fuel mixture. The resonator allows for more efficient use of the energy of detonation waves. Such an engine can be used as a stand-alone product or as a more efficient replacement for the "traditional" afterburner of a turbojet engine.

OKB im. Cradle develops and tests precisely the circuit with a block of gas-dynamic resonators. Its high potential has been repeatedly confirmed by tests of various prototypes, and now another similar product is being tested.

RPM and IDD of all schemes have certain advantages over gas turbine ones. First of all, it is less complex design. In IDD there are no moving parts difficult to manufacture, experiencing high mechanical and thermal loads. In addition, such an engine has lower requirements for the parameters of the flow path. Thanks to this, the detonation engine can be made using existing technologies and materials.

Due to a different thermodynamic cycle, specific fuel consumption is reduced, which can be used to improve certain characteristics of the aircraft. Depending on the tasks set, you can abandon the economy in favor of increasing thrust or keep it by increasing the flight range.

Applications

The organization-developer of the new technology demonstrator believes that the engines of the new class can be widely used in various fields. Traffic rules will be useful in the further development of aviation, incl. super- and hypersonic; they can be used in new aerospace systems. The new engine is seen as a useful addition to rocket and jet propulsion systems.

RPMEs have design and technological advantages over gas turbine products with the same parameters. According to the OKB them. A.M. Carrycots, this is also a commercial and economic advantage. An aircraft with such an engine will have high technical characteristics, but the cost of development, production and operation will remain at an acceptable level.

At the same time, the proposed designs of IDD are not without drawbacks. So, like other ramjet engines, detonation has a limited range of operating speeds. To start, he needs an initial acceleration - with the help of a different engine. In the case of missiles, this can be a liquid or solid propellant propulsion system, and the aircraft can have a separate turbojet engine for takeoff and landing and acceleration modes.

Due to technical and operational constraints, the direction of ramjet pulsating motors has been underdeveloped in the past. As a result, new IDD projects are still at the development and testing stage. There are still no full-fledged high-performance samples suitable for implementation in real projects of aviation or space technology.

For their appearance, further continuation of work is necessary with a gradual solution of all key tasks. An increase in thrust is required to reach the level of modern turbojet engines, an increase in the resource and the achievement of high reliability. Work of this kind is going on right now and is already yielding certain results. But the creation of a full-fledged IDD / PDAA for practical use is still a matter of the distant future.

Work for the future

The direct-flow pulsating detonation engine has a number of important features and is of great interest in the context of the further development of aviation, rocket and space technology. However, the development of this direction and the development of workable structures with a sufficient level of characteristics turns out to be a very difficult and time-consuming process. So, over the past 10 years, domestic traffic regulations developed by "UEC-UMPO" have shown a significant increase in performance, but still have not reached implementation in practice.

Nevertheless, the work continues and gives cause for optimism. The last news show significant progress, and also allow us to expect that the industry will boast of new successes in the near future. Thus, the appearance of aircraft with pulsating detonation engines is still an event of the middle or long-term prospects, but each new stage of development and testing brings it closer.

Comments

[mark1]

I wish OKB them Lyulka (and UEC) seven-league steps and always in the right direction

[Thrifty]

Mark1 - you can wish anything, the main thing is that the work is not slowed down under various pretexts, so that the finished product eventually goes into the series, and does not remain a demonstrator.

[mark1]

All I can is to wish ... -I can light a candle ...

[ammunition]

Quote: mark1

I wish OKB them Lyulka (and UEC) seven-league steps

It would be nice to keep information about the work on such an engine a secret. And then ... the impression that the journalists do not leave this OKB.
When the Americans were developing the bomb, journalists from Los Alamos did not report. -))

[mark1]

Yes, it would not be bad, of course, but Americans also publish about their successes in this area. So they probably talk about what is possible.

[Blackmokona]

The Americans even flew this, the whole problem is that for more than 100 years they have been trying to develop and put into service the countries of the world
But so far no one has been able to make a flight copy with normal parameters.

[Trapp1st]

for more than 100 years they have been trying to develop this diamond and put into service the countries of the world

[venik]

Quote: BlackMokona

for more than 100 years they have been trying to develop this diamond and put into service the countries of the world

=======
Are you confusing anything? Here, as for the PUVRD (pulsating air-jet engine), then yes! He is really about 100 years old ... By the way, he became first a jet engine that had practical application (V-1):

But he was never DETAILED (there is a completely different "physics"!)

By the way, with a similar product (PuVRD) met "live" when in our aircraft modeling circle on the city Young Technician Stations (oh, and it was a long time ago ...), high school students made a PUVRD (according to drawings from the magazine "Modelist-Constructor") and a cord model for it (by the way, it looked like a great "V-2") and went to test the "product" on our an unofficial "testing ground" - a wasteland on the outskirts of the city, not far from the new buildings of a new microdistrict ...
The sight was UNFORGETTABLE! "Brought" this "hurdy-gurdy", with great difficulty - only from the third or fourth time! She described 2 or 3 circles and died out safely! And then smoke, smoke and soot was: mom, don't cry! And already How this "hurdy-gurdy" CRASHED !!!!
In short: The second flight did not take place: a "delegation" of indignant residents of neighboring houses (and it was half a kilometer before them) rushed in, led by a district police officer and demanded: "Stop this immediately ugliness! "..... Eh! If only it weren't district - maybe I would have seen the second flight!

[Mikhail3]

Quote: ammunition

It would be nice to keep information about the work on such an engine a secret. And then ... the impression that the journalists do not leave this OKB.

So you need to get money from anyone. Engine development is expensive. And the state support reaches the laboratory so emaciated that it is enough to buy a custom-made article about grandiose successes. Never mind, soon DARPA will take it all for maintenance ...

[lomax77]

You are wrong)) The scientists themselves were broadcasting from Los Alamos. So much has been said about this that sometimes it seems that up to half of the participants in the Manhattan Project reported to Comrade Stalin. You can take your hat off to the intelligence super pros.

[Ka-52]

RPM and IDD of all schemes have certain advantages over gas turbine ones.

Detonation is 4 times cheaper than an air-jet of similar power. There are no mechanical parts in it. No shoulder blades. No shaft. No bearings. Structurally, the detonation is primitive compared to other reactive ones.

[Andrey Korotkov]

Quote: Ka-52

RPM and IDD of all schemes have certain advantages over gas turbine ones.

Detonation is 4 times cheaper than an air-jet of similar power. There are no mechanical parts in it. No shoulder blades. No shaft. No bearings. Structurally, the detonation is primitive compared to other reactive ones.

Somehow they are confused by the shortcomings, like development, of course, but not at this stage

[Ka-52]

OKB im. A.M. The cradles from the UEC-UMPO have successfully carried out the first stage of testing the demonstrator of the new engine.

Direct-flow pulsating detonation engine (ППДД)

in the design bureau it is called PuVRDD - a pulsating air-jet detonation engine.

[gridasov]

It is interesting how, within the framework of the law of conservation of energy, it is possible to increase traction by reducing fuel consumption. I know how to increase the energy density of the stream forming the waste of the masses. But in this algorithm of generating processes this is very doubtful. And the quality factor of the design is worth doubting. In general, a useless business without theoretical justification. and In addition, the impossibility of scaling both the process and the device.

[aybolyt678]

I know, you know, is there any hope of developing a nuclear engine for space launch?

[gridasov]

Of course there is the possibility of creating a nuclear engine. In addition, at different levels of energy density or material enrichment. The question is how to transform radial radiation into linear one and close the cycle of energy carrier turnover in the form of a mobile aggregate state of matter.

[Undecim]

It has been a long time since your bot was heard. Was it on prevention? Or did you close the turnover cycle?

[aybolyt678]

Quote: gridasov

The question is how to transform radial radiation into linear one and close the cycle of energy carrier turnover in the form of a mobile aggregate state of matter.

In my opinion, the question is to eliminate the diffusely habitual system of thinking of those in power and form a vector one aimed at a real breakthrough?

[vvvjak]

Quote: gridasov

It is interesting how, within the framework of the law of conservation of energy, it is possible to increase traction by reducing fuel consumption.

Increase engine efficiency.

[gridasov]

Children need to be told about efficiency!

[vvvjak]

What a question, that’s the answer.

[Svetlana]

Quote: vvvjak

Increase engine efficiency.

According to the laws of thermodynamics, an engine with a Carnot cycle has the maximum efficiency. The Carnot cycle has 2 adiabats and 2 isotherms. There are no shock adiabats in the Carnot cycle. When striving to increase the efficiency of open-cycle jet engines, it is also necessary to strive to choose reversible thermodynamic processes. The shock adiabat is an irreversible thermodynamic process. Therefore, the efficiency of an engine built on a shock adiabat will be lower than the efficiency of an engine built on a thermodynamic process close to adiabatic.
Another unpleasant moment is a decrease in the resource of the engine, in which detonation occurs. It was to prevent detonation in the cylinders of the internal combustion engine that an anti-knock additive, tetraethyl lead, was previously added to gasoline.

[vvvjak]

Quote: Svetlana

When striving to increase the efficiency of open-cycle jet engines, one should also strive to choose reversible thermodynamic processes.

"A reversible thermodynamic process is a thermodynamic process that allows the system to return to its original state without leaving any changes in the environment. "
“All real processes proceed with a finite speed. They are accompanied by friction, diffusion and heat transfer at a finite difference between the temperatures of the system and the environment. Consequently, they are all non-equilibrium and irreversible."

Quote: Svetlana

When trying to improve efficiency

"Carnot's theorem is a theorem on the efficiency of heat engines. According to this theorem, the efficiency of the Carnot cycle does not depend on the nature of the working fluid and the design of the heat engine and is a function of heater and refrigerator temperatures"

[gridasov]

On such a theoretical basis, there will be no progress.

[vvvjak]

Quote: gridasov

On such a theoretical basis, there will be no progress.

What does progress have to do with it? When the relativistic theory of motion appeared, nobody canceled Newtonian mechanics.

[Svetlana]

Quote: vvvjak

"All real processes proceed with a finite speed. They are accompanied by friction, diffusion and heat exchange at a finite difference between the temperatures of the system and the environment. Therefore, they are all non-equilibrium and irreversible."

All processes are irreversible. But some are more irreversible. The measure of the irreversibility of the process is entropy. In a thermodynamic process proceeding along the adiabat, the entropy remains constant. In the thermodynamic process proceeding along the Hugoniot shock adiabat, the entropy increases. The entropy of the gas in the detonation engine behind the shock wave is greater than before it, i.e. the entropy in the shock wave increases.
The difference between the entropies of a perfect gas in the processes of shock and isentropic compression (up to the same density) is equal to the heat capacity Cv multiplied by the logarithm of the ratio of the shock and isentropic compression pressures. (see https://studopedia.ru/16_74735_entropiya-pri-udarnom-szhatii.html)

[vvvjak]

Quote: Svetlana

The entropy of the gas in the detonation engine behind the shock wave is greater than before it, i.e. the entropy in the shock wave increases.

I agree. But the temperature of the process will increase (compared to a conventional engine), and hence the efficiency (accordingly, the entropy will decrease). It takes a long time to count everything.
Py.Sy. Your link is not working

[Svetlana]

Quote: vvvjak

Here you need to count everything for a long time.

You can not count for a long time. Using the infinity calculus, we will show that the thrust of an engine based on adiabatic (isentropic) compression is greater than the thrust of an engine based on compression by a detonation shock wave.
With isentropic compression, the gas can be compressed as many times as desired, that is, the density can be increased to infinity with an unlimited increase in pressure. Correspondingly, the temperature of a perfect gas also grows indefinitely during isentropic compression.
In shock compression of a gas, the density of a perfect gas can be increased only by a finite number of times.
The thrust of a jet engine (RD) is proportional to the product of density and the square of the gas speed. The square of the speed is proportional to the temperature. taxiway thrust is proportional to the product of density and temperature. Applying adiabatic compression, we obtain a thrust greater than applying shock compression, due to the fact that the density of the compressed gas is limited during shock compression. The product of two infinities (temperature and density under adiabatic compression) is always greater than the product of a finite quantity (gas density) by an infinite value (gas temperature) under shock compression.

[vvvjak]

In fact, you have repeated information from a previous comment, with which I have already agreed. All other things being equal, these statements are valid. In this case, they are not equal. Example; we wanted to boil the water in the kettle (to get a useful job) and turned on the hotplate for 10 minutes. (in this case, the gas burned out to Q heat). But we are not looking for easy ways and decided to boil the kettle by simply warming up with matches, as a result, we burned 200 boxes of matches (to obtain the same Q heat as with gas), spent half a day, and as a result, for us, the work is exactly 0 (water in the kettle is almost not heated). Although, I suspect that the very process of burning a match will occur with less entropy than burning a gas. For example, look on the Internet how the process of explosion and combustion of TNT is going on, it is not very correct to equate these processes. Although if we take on a global scale (planet Earth, as a closed thermodynamic system), the process of heating with gas will occur with greater entropy than matches.

[yehat2]

Quote: gridasov

I wonder how, within the framework of the law of conservation of energy, you can increase traction by reducing fuel consumption

As I understand it, there is an optimization of fuel combustion and an increase in momentum due to a wave-like build-up. This is roughly the same as the difference between a blowout with a fist (conventional jet engine) and at the moment of maximum speed.

[gridasov]

That's right +! Reducing the pulse time period results in an efficient process. But here you need to understand that the energy needed to be taken away,. Therefore, the reduction in the pulse period is associated with the fact that the fuel burns-explodes in the entire volume at the same time. And this is a separate topic and technological process. In general, I see that scientists and engineers do not work with complex problem solving methods. They just don't understand the mathematical underpinnings of this analysis.

[yehat2]

why are you confusing the question? Why do you need some kind of complex solution, if a full-fledged mathematical model has been formed and has already been repeatedly tested on experimental models?
As for scientists and engineers, they have specific tasks, and not a free scientific search. It was in the USSR that there were scientists, like Bartini or Lavrentyev, who could simply come up with a topic, substantiate its need for the Academy of Sciences and deal with it, having received funding. Now the process is very different.

[gridasov]

Humanity is stuck in the evolution of intelligence and the development of technology. There are all the basics for moving in the atmosphere with speeds an order of magnitude higher and in interplanetary flights as well.

[yehat2]

you do not have the facts to confirm this, and technology and science abruptly stopped developing with the collapse of the USSR. And ... you are speaking an order of magnitude higher. Above what?
I won't even discuss interplanetary flights. Our science is not seriously mobilized for this research.

[gridasov]

For literate scientists, the term abruptly is worth replacing with the concept of algorithmically grounded stages of the process. Mathematics, do you know it is more convenient as a language

[aybolyt678]

Quote: yehat2

Our science is not seriously mobilized for these studies.

Science, it is now on guard of money ..... there are no devotees now. Moreover, for seventy years there have been no serious scientific discoveries, some breakthroughs at the intersection of sciences called technologies. And that is not with us while abroad. A big, supposedly scientist - in fact, just an administrator for the distribution of cash flows .. Usually they masterfully master the art of flattery and hypocrisy. I saw a meeting of "major" scientists with Putin on the subject of Covid, and it became sickening from the behavior of some.
so it is with the Cosmos - there are streams, there are cutting mechanisms and no one wants to break the existing system. But fundamentally, it is necessary to switch to nuclear engines. This will be the JUMP.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: yehat2

As I understand it, there is an optimization of fuel combustion and an increase in momentum due to a wave-like build-up. This is roughly the same as the difference between a blowout with a fist (conventional jet engine) and at the moment of maximum speed.

The gas outflow rate is higher, the combustion efficiency is slightly better.
The wall thickness of the detonation chamber is at times!
With an increase in pressure in the LPRE compressor station, the wall thickness grows exponentially, the cooling (volumetric fuel consumption through the cooling jacket) - exponentially (which is why it is very profitable to use supercooled methane as fuel in modern LPRE - the mass fuel consumption decreases = the cooling jacket is thinner, the weight decreases High pressure fuel pump - total mass of liquid fuel)

In a detonation engine, the issue of durability in operating mode, the process of organizing cooling and mass is not clear.
Most likely, this will result in disposable air launch products - for example, long-range hypersonic V-V missiles.

[Sergey Valov]

“As in the framework of the law of conservation of energy, it is possible to increase the thrust by reducing the fuel consumption” - by reducing the temperature of the gases at the outlet from the nozzle.

[gridasov]

The temperature should be within the limits of the nozzle. Be an order of magnitude lower than outside this nozzle. In addition, the nozzle itself should be somewhat, if not with an additional function that increases the speed of the outflowing stream

[gridasov]

By using the potential energy of the energy carrier substance, causing these internal possibilities from within the substance itself, and not by the application of external initiating factors. In the nozzle, the flow turns into everything else, if anyone noticed. This means that the difference in speed in the central zone of the flow and in the near-wall zone must be used to create a spin of rotation along the corresponding vector.

[Genry]

Quote: gridasov

It is interesting how, within the framework of the law of conservation of energy, it is possible to increase traction by reducing fuel consumption.

It's elementary. Even a smart student knows that an increase in temperature in the combustion chamber increases efficiency.
Compared to a turbojet engine: there are no turbines with delicate blades in this engine, so the temperature can be significantly increased.
Compared to ramjet: here, due to resonance, there is a higher pressure at the moment of combustion of a portion of fuel, therefore, the temperature is higher.

[Ka-52]

Even a smart student knows that an increase in temperature in the combustion chamber increases efficiency.

the problem with a conventional engine is that the fuel does not have time to burn completely. By increasing the fuel feed rate, we only worsen the efficiency. The solution is found in the correct ratio of the HTS components (reaching a stoichiometric mixture) and controlled ignition.

[Genry]

Quote: Ka-52

The solution is found in the correct ratio of the VTS components (reaching a stoichiometric mixture), controlled ignition.

The ratio of components is only a condition for completeness of combustion - but does not determine the efficiency of a heat engine. The efficiency increases with an increase in the temperature difference between the refrigerator and the combustion chamber.
See Karnot's thermodynamic cycle.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A6%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BB_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE

[gridasov]

Quite right! Therefore, the best fuel is not a mixture, but a relatively homogeneous substance. And again, this is the question of how quickly you can transform a fairly simple substance into a set of even simpler ones, so that they then reunite themselves. Therefore, Carnot is brilliant in that he saw and substantiated a closed physical process. But he did not solve the technical problem of organizing the effective transformation of the energy carrier into its various states.

[gridasov]

How to technically solve the problems of regulating the composition of the mixture and to avoid this regulation altogether. !

[gridasov]

if we consider all the stages of the processes at the level of electromagnetic, then it is impossible to have only a high temperature without its polarized level

[Genry]

Quote: gridasov

if we consider all the stages of the processes at the level of electromagnetic, then it is impossible to have only a high temperature without its polarized level

What medications do you take - you cannot drive a car in any way.

[gridasov]

By the way, I'm on the tram now!

[gridasov]

Taking an analysis to the next level will optimize that analysis.

[Genry]

Your AI is jammed.

[gridasov]

In principle, such comments are not discussed since the simplicity and one-sidedness of reasoning in this case is obvious. [Quote] [/ quote] on

[Undecim]

It is interesting how, within the framework of the law of conservation of energy, it is possible to increase traction by reducing fuel consumption.

Gridasov, sit down, unsatisfactory. You have succeeded in generating all sorts of pseudoscientific billibers. But with classical knowledge you have a problem. Have you heard about the specific impulse?

[ultra]

Improving engine efficiency.

[Ka-52]

When the air-fuel mixture burns, a detonation wave is formed, hitting the traction wall and creating thrust.

not so simple. Combustion of fuel assemblies occurs in conventional piston and turbojet engines. But there the burning speed is ~ 35m / s at t of the order of 2500 gr. Detonation combustion occurs at a speed of 3000 m / s, and the combustion temperature reaches 4000g. Feel the difference, as they say. To create detonation combustion, it is necessary not only to ignite the fuel assembly, but to create over-compression zones in its flow, generating a detonation wave. There are several ways. In the photo from the article with PPDD, this task is performed by those tubes on the side (tn "Shchetinin ignition").

[gridasov]

It should be said that the detonation wave is radial! Plus that the explosion of the fuel mixture should take place in the entire volume at the same time.

[Ka-52]

Plus that the explosion of the fuel mixture should take place in the entire volume at the same time.

not. It is not about "the whole volume". The fact is that in ordinary, deflagration combustion, the combustion front propagates linearly, with a certain constant speed given by t. And during detonation combustion, zones of ultra-high pressure and t arise due to gas-dynamic discontinuities or resonances. it is in these zones that shock waves are generated. Therefore, it is important to provide conditions for the appearance of a detonation wave. This cannot be done by simple ignition. This is usually done on simple turbojet engines, due to the use of vortex burners

[gridasov]

You think and speak correctly. However, this is exactly what I am talking about, and the main ability to carry it out will lead to success.

[Sergey Valov]

"The burning rate is ~ 35m / s" - this is not the burning rate, it is most likely the speed of the exhaust gases (meters do not burn ). Burning rate is measured in grams / sec.

[Ka-52]

"The burning speed is ~ 35m / s" - this is not the burning speed, it is most likely the speed of the exhaust gases (meters do not burn smile). Burning rate is measured in grams / sec.

these are not grams or kilograms. This is the speed of propagation of the combustion wave in the fuel-air mixture. What does the exhaust gases have to do with it ???

[Sergey Valov]

Now I understand what you mean, thanks. At that time, there was no your next post when everything becomes clear.

[Alexy]

Those. ICE will still serve. And then: green energy, electric movement almost tomorrow.

[yehat2]

I wonder how the reliability of the engine
ramjet or turbojet, except for surge, practically have no failures

[gridasov]

At high process speeds, the flow will stall

[vadimtt]

These engines are unlikely for manned aircraft. More likely for drones and missiles. The noise level will not be inferior to the infamous "supersonic propeller". But the increase in performance is certainly impressive, one might say revolutionary.

PS: Back in school (80s) I made pulsed vrd for aircraft models, the idea and scheme is simple, but it's not easy to do, there are nuances

[yehat2]

Quote: vadimtt

but it's not easy to do, there are nuances

about the nuances, that's for sure.
it is no coincidence that only the 16th version of the engine became quite interesting
but about the noise - this is a special issue. Maybe there will be a lot of noise itself, but at the same time at such frequencies and resonances that it will not be particularly noticeable.
for example, we hardly hear ultrasound.

[vadimtt]

Depends on the specific design, where the resonance will be, in the case of an annular detonation wave, megahertz are also possible. But the trouble is that from an ultrasound of 160-170 dB, which you will not hear, nevertheless, your teeth will get enough sleep, your eyes will flow out and your hearing will disappear forever, and maybe even worse

[gridasov]

You're right! However, this is the level of special operational capabilities of the process support. And this is already a question of the operator's intelligence.

[Nikodim]

Quote: Undecim

It is interesting how, within the framework of the law of conservation of energy, it is possible to increase traction by reducing fuel consumption.

Gridasov, sit down, unsatisfactory. You have succeeded in generating all sorts of pseudoscientific billibers. But with classical knowledge you have a problem. Have you heard about the specific impulse?

Sometimes it seems to me that Gridasov is a bot. And the real one. I mean, the program. And the developer of this bot is testing it on VO

[gridasov]

I will be grateful if I hear your opinion. I personally think this is a more complex and meaningful parameter.

[yehat2]

if it's a bot, it's pretty smart
because he can reply to the topic.

[gridasov]

I think that so far there is no terminology for a term that the human brain as a natural intelligence can be mobilized into work as an AI, but not in the framework of working with an information product in the form of statistical data and memory, but in the framework of work as an analysis of multivariate structures and construction algorithmically connected systems from this so-called information.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Dead-end path of development.
How many years rocket science has been struggling with pulsations, bellows have been introduced into the fuel path of a liquid-propellant rocket engine, and then - no, no, they will spontaneously and uncontrollably appear in the Soyuz launch vehicle.
The detonation chamber will be relatively heavy - since it is problematic to provide a thrust impulse in one direction, which means that a significant part will be wasted on the walls of the chamber itself.
Another question is to synchronize and close detonation waves from several points of initiation to each other - it is possible to mutually reinforce wave processes in the right directions and to cancel secondary ...
Well, experts in gas dynamics know better.

[gridasov]

Again, if we consider hydro-gas dynamics as electro-magnetic processes, then I note that the detonation process occurs at the moment of the acquisition of spin by the jet. Well, scientists will understand this sometime later. This occurs as a process of energy optimization in a flow, plasma, etc. Therefore, detonation should be perceived not as an abstract negative process comparable to cavitation, but as an opportunity to use the potential energy of the fuel and the flow in general.

[bootlegger]

Dead end, but if you look strategically.
It is clear that this will be the last chemical fuel engine. Detonation is simply the most efficient way to extract this energy. There is nowhere to go in this direction.
So is it worth wandering into this dead end? Even if it is high-tech. Waste time on things that cannot be developed and improved. Is it better to spend energy on the development of engines with nuclear power?
The prospects there are much more interesting.

[gridasov]

In the world, a conflict is brewing between the scientific and the military. The military, as customers, urge scientists to solve problems that the latter are no longer able to solve. Therefore, we will wait and see the tragicomedy.

[Tektor]

This prototype is fully suitable as the second stage of the 79M6 Contact missile-interceptor developed by the Fakel ICB.

[Ruslan Sledkov]

A few months ago I read that the detonation engine is very voracious compared to the turbojet engine. And here, on the contrary, they write about the efficiency of this engine. Maybe a detonation engine is more economical than a turbojet engine operating in afterburner mode? Who will explain?

[gridasov]

Confusion needs to be cleared up. Undoubtedly, the efficiency of the engine in an atmosphere of elastic media is the higher the higher the capacity of the rejection of the masses. But the question of efficiency is based on what is fuel, as a working fluid

[bootlegger]

In rocket propulsion there is a concept of specific impulse. Simplifying, this is how many seconds a kilogram of fuel can give a kilogram of thrust. Or, in another form, it is the rate of expiration of fuel combustion products.
It is clear that in aircraft engines the first option is conditional. There is an oxidizing agent in the air of the atmosphere and it is difficult to bring to a common denominator.
But if we take the expiration rate, then everything is a little clearer. The exhaust velocity of the combustion products of the oxygen-hydrogen pair is more than 4000 m / s, and the detonation gives these parameters 2 times higher. So the theoretical gain is 2 times the specific impulse. Although the aircraft engine will have less ..

[lomax77]

And how is this engine better than what the Americans put on the SR-50 71 years ago?

[vadimtt]

Well, in theory, it's better that with such an engine, the blackbird, taking off in Germany, would fly through the entire USSR and land in Japan, and all this without refueling / outboard tanks, which was not provided at all

[lomax77]

The need for overclocking engines somewhat offset the anticipated savings. Is not it? ))

[vadimtt]

Solid fuel boosters can be shot off))

[lomax77]

Aha)) And this bat-plane will rush in the atmosphere at supersonic without interruption. It remains only to make the appropriate interceptor tanker.

[Nikolaevich I]

"... we need a starting turbojet engine ..."! And if a "hybrid"? At the end of the last century, much was written about "hybrid" engines for aerospace systems! For example. such "hybrids" as: 1. Ramjet + turbojet engine; 2.Rampjet engine + turbojet engine + rocket engine ...

[ieskela13]

The idea of ​​this engine is mine, I sent such a project with such an engine to the plant a moment in 2015 and then before 2020 I sent 3 more different engines with the same principle to the factory. 2020 months made and tested according to my characteristics, these engines accelerate the plane to 4 km per hour I was the first to develop such engines in 50000 But I did not receive a penny for my developments, I not only developed the engines but also all the main technologies and parts and components for fighters of the 2015th generation and also fuselages of civil and transport aircraft in the amount of 7 pieces including fuselages of stealth fighters and stealth bombers Fuselages of civil aircraft oval elps-shaped and diamond-shaped with wing geometry that have not yet existed And about money, no one is going to pay me for my developments since the goods at the factories were sent ahead without contracts and advances

[gridasov]

It is impossible to create an efficient engine without understanding the essence of the processes in hydro-gasdynamic and plasma processes. It is impossible without understanding the transient processes and optimal algorithms for the stages of transformation of matter and energy. Therefore, everything is not so simple.

[czes]

Since top-secret research is published in the open press, there is only one conclusion that can be drawn: they are futile.

[gridasov]

They are hopeless as a result of activities alone. But not like the others. Everything will not develop according to the usual algorithms.

[AML]

Quote: gridasov

It is interesting how, within the framework of the law of conservation of energy, it is possible to increase traction by reducing fuel consumption.

Increase the temperature and the degree of combustion, thereby increasing the speed of the outflow of gases.

[gridasov]

This answer is fraught with significant developments at each stage. It is correct to increase the temperature of the working fluid, but this is a stage of preceding and ensuring an even higher T .. It is correct that the combustion rate is high, but how to ensure the removal of the previous portion of the working fluid, etc. And there are many technological nuances. That is why we are talking about new technologies for analysis and modeling of coordinated processes and new ones in devices in general.

[AML]

New, well forgotten old. I recently learned that there are water valves without a single moving part. Surely, something similar is used here.

[gridasov]

I would like to note that this principle was used to build a pump by Magomet Sagov for the percolation of liquids. But Sagov is understandable, but why Tesla worked only with a plane, and not with the spatial parameters of the impact on the flow, it is not clear. But Schauberger also made the process very difficult. Everything is simpler and more efficient

[Jager]

I read two paragraphs - you can recognize Ryabov in any article. Talent, how to get an article from a few sentences and a bucket of "water".

[Lew]

I think that this traffic pressure is a very distant future, if in 10 years from 110kg of thrust to 1600kg ...