Military Review

Ballad of "Winchester": steps to perfection

85
Ballad of "Winchester": steps to perfection
The immediate predecessor of the M1894 Winchester - the M1886 Winchester chambered for the .45-70 caliber


“Here even the blind will understand what the matter is,” he said.
This bullet with a soft nose and a steel shirt
and yours with a soft nose and a steel shirt.
Here thirty - thirty;
and yours is thirty - thirty.
This is the factory D. and T.,
and yours - factory D. and T.
Let's go ashore and see
how did you arrange everything. "

("Smoke Bellew" Jack London)

Weapon and firms. Let's start with the fact that once again we recall that ... gunsmith John Mosex Browning was a very talented designer and, which is also very important, he never sat idle.

No sooner had his M1885 rifle go into production, than after it he designed another, truly iconic model of the M1886 "Winchester". I must say that after the release of the M1873 "Winchester", it was soon followed by the M1876 model, which differed only in that it became the first model of this company's carbine, which could fire powerful rifle cartridges with a central ignition of .45-75 caliber.

This cartridge was very similar to the army .45-70 Government, so there is a clear purpose to seduce the American army with this model. Moreover, the difference consisted only in a heavier receiver, which was required to withstand the high pressure developed by the rifle cartridge at the time of the shot.

The 1876 model was also produced for .40-60, .45-60 and .50-95 Express cartridges. This model has gained particular popularity among bison hunters and it is clear why - due to its exceptional destructive power.

However, the cartridges in this rifle were old, filled with black powder!


The receiver of the M1886 rifle. Its differences from earlier models are immediately noticeable. On the receiver there are no removable "cheeks" and a tide for mounting the reload lever. The box itself is solid-milled and open from above.

Stage one: model 1886


As for the 1886 model, designed by John Browning, it was created in order to fire even more powerful rifle cartridges than the 1876 model, say, such as .45-70, .45-90 and .50- 110 Express.

Therefore, he had to redo the design of its mechanism, which had not changed since 1873, and at the same time completely change the shutter locking system.

However, the cartridges for this rifle were still filled with black powder. However, the strength of both the barrel and its bolt were such that in 1903 the M1886 barrels were bored for .33 WCF (8,6 mm) smokeless powder cartridges.

In 1935, Winchester introduced a slightly modified M1886 called the Model 71 chambered for the .348 Winchester (8,8mm) cartridge. In total, more than 1886 copies of the M160 rifles were produced.


The receiver of the M1992 rifle of the year practically did not differ from the previous sample.

Stage two: model 1892


The next step on the way to the most perfect "Winchester" was the model developed by Browning in 1892. Moreover, when the company asked him to make an improved version of the M1886, capable of competing with a recent model of a similar rifle from the Marlin firm, Browning said that he would do the job in less than a month. And if he is late, he will not take money from the company.

As a result, two weeks later, he presented a prototype of the M1892 rifle. Initially, it used .32-20 (7,94mm), .38-40 (10,17mm) and .44-40 Winchester (10,8mm) cartridges, followed by a variant in 1895. 25-20 (6,6mm). A certain number of M1892 in 1936-1938. was produced in caliber .218 Bee (5,7 mm). But the .44-40 caliber rifles proved to be the most popular, far ahead of all others in terms of sales.


This photo clearly shows the main difference between the M1892 and the rifles of 1873 and 1876. The shutter became rectangular, sliding in the grooves of the receiver (before that it was round). And there was a U-shaped wedge locking it, which was lowered and raised with the same bracket-lever. He moved in the grooves of the receiver and entered the grooves of the bolt.


But in this photo you can clearly see the M1892 shutter, the ejector spring located on top of it and two protrusions of the U-shaped locking wedge that hold the shutter in the locked position.

The great popularity of this model is evidenced by the fact that the M1892 was used by Admiral Robert E. Peary during his travels to the North Pole.

And Secretary of War Patrick Hurley on December 13, 1932, the Winchester firm donated the millionth rifle. Famed Amazon explorer Percy Fawcett was also armed with this rifle.

And the British Royal Navy used 21 copies of this "Winchester" during the First World War. Interestingly, at the very beginning of the same World War I, the Royal Flying Corps purchased model 000 rifles chambered for .1886-45 Sharps (90 mm), equipped with special incendiary bullets designed to ignite hydrogen in German airships.


A still from the 1948 movie "Burning California", where the locking wedge on the M1892 bracket-lever is very clearly visible.

The Garat, Anitua & Sia company of Eibar in Spain copied the 1892 model.

And began to produce under the name "Tiger" chambered for .44 Largo (.44-40 Winchester) with a 22-inch barrel, 12-cartridge magazine and a saddle ring, and many rifles were equipped with swivels.

Well, in total, from 1915 to 1937, 1 of these rifles were produced. Since 034, they have been issued to various Spanish paramilitaries, including the Civil Guard. "Tigers" in the 687s were sold in large numbers to the countries of South America and even to the United States.


Cartridge .44-40 Winchester

Winchester ceased production of the M1892 in 1941.

But firms such as Browning, Chiappa, and then Amadeo Rossi in Brazil and Winchester's subsidiary in Japan continued to produce it.

In 1997, Winchester again produced a limited production of the M1892. And in November 2006, she announced the release of Model 1892, the 100th anniversary model "John Wayne" chambered for .44-40.

In early 2012, the company again produced a number of large loop carbines on the reload lever in four calibers: .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .44-40 (44 WCF) and .45 Colt. At the same time, only the initial release of rifles of this model amounted to 1 007 608 copies.


Barrel and magazine


Aiming frame


A still from the 1956 movie "The Searchers". In the hands of John Wayne just M1892. He can often be seen in films about 1876. But unhistoricality is a common flaw in modern cinema. There are excellent examples of the opposite, though.

The third stage: "Winchester" М1894


Model "Winchester" 1894 American historians of weapons R.L. Wilson and Hal Herring named

"The most advanced lever action rifle."

And this is most likely true. Because they were produced the most of all - a total of 7,5 million copies.


Receiver М1894


One M1894 rifle is on display at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in the weapons and armor section. This rifle, engraved and inlaid in gold and platinum, ranks among the most ornate Winchester lever action shotguns of the early XNUMXth century.


The blued receiver, lever and rifle barrel are decorated with swirls and inlaid with gold and platinum wire, framing three gold-encrusted and engraved scenes depicting a mountain lion, deer and bear fighting two dogs. The butt and foreline are embellished with floral carvings. These decorations reproduce designs from the Winchester Arms Company Highly Embellished Arms catalog published in 1897. Highly Embellished Arms is the first to systematize factory-made Winchesters for its line of rifles, offering customers ten receiver designs and eight stock designs at varying prices. These include play scenes surrounded by swirls and foliage motifs combined with swirls. The design was primarily developed by the Winchester factory engravers Herman Leslie Ulrich and William E. Stokes. This rifle has a Style # 1 engraving and A style applied carving (the most expensive options available), replicating the decorations on the very first rifle featured in this catalog. Materials: steel, gold, platinum, silver, wood (walnut), leather, textiles. Dimensions: length 101,6 cm; barrel length 21 inches (53,3 cm); caliber 0,30 inches (7,62 mm). Weight 3114 g

First of all, we note that the M1894 was the first American magazine rifle in which cartridges with smokeless powder were to be used.

Initially, it was also created for black powder cartridges: .32-40 Winchester and .38-55 Winchester. However, the Winchester company at this time was already engaged in the development of the .30-30 Winchester or .30 WCF (Winchester Centerfire - that is, the centerfire cartridge), which eventually became synonymous with the 1894 model itself.

The cartridge allowed, with a smaller caliber of 7,85 mm, to have an muzzle velocity of 759 m / s, which was unrealistic for rifles that fired black powder cartridges. True, the receiver had to be lengthened. Because the sleeves of the new smokeless powder cartridges were significantly longer than the old ones.


Cartridges from left to right: 5.56x45NATO, .30-30 Winchester or .30 WCF, and .308 Winchester

The combination of the firepower of the Model 1894 with its compact, lightweight (3,1 kg) and easy-to-carry design of the gun itself made it a very popular rifle among American hunters. Especially those that hunted white-tailed deer in the dense forests of the eastern United States.

And it was not for nothing that it was the first rifle sold in more than 7 copies. Moreover, in 000 the Winchester company presented the millionth model of 000 to President Calvin Coolidge. The $ 1894 ½ million was donated to President Harry Truman on May 1927, 1. And the two-millionth rifle in 8 was given to President Dwight D. Eisenhower.


M1894 rifle scope chambered for .25-35 WCF

During World War I, the US government purchased 1800 M1894 rifles with 50 .000-30 rounds of ammunition for the US Army Liaison Corps personnel stationed in the Pacific Northwest, in order to prevent a strike from workers from causing delays in the production of Sitka spruce lumber. for the production of fuselages and wings of military aircraft.


"Back" of the M1894 bolt chambered for .30-30 WCF

In order not to waste Lee-Enfield rifles, the British Royal Navy in 1914 also purchased about 5000 M1894 rifles in .30-30 caliber for the crews of patrol ships and minesweepers.

France followed the example of the British and also bought 15100 carbines with belt swivels on the left side of the stock and barrel and a metric rifle scope. These carbines were issued to motorcyclist couriers, gunners, railway personnel and some balloon units. Samples captured by German forces were designated Gewehr 248 (e).


On the M1894, the locking frame was made differently than on the M1892. Here the shutter just rested against it and that's it. A round "target" on the plate served to hit the trigger, and in turn transmitted the blow to the striker.

But in World War II, "Winchester" M1894 was used by Canadian rangers on the Pacific coast, which were supposed to protect the west coast of Canada from a possible Japanese invasion.

Model 1894 for its long history It was also produced as Model 55 (in production from 1924 to 1932 with a barrel length of 610 mm) and Model 64 (in production from 1933 to 1957 and with a barrel of 660 mm).


М1894 chambered for .30-30 WCF: bolt and feeder

In 1964, the production of the M1894 was improved to make it less expensive to manufacture.

But, as was the case with the M1892 and M1886 models, the price of older rifles only increased from this. And then something happened that should have happened.

Since there were fewer long cartridges in the under-barrel magazine (7–8 versus 12–15 in the 1973 Winchester), the M1894 model was also produced for short revolving cartridges. So the usual tubular magazine, as before, began to hold from 9 to 13 rounds.


"Winchester" М1894 in the cinema: "Among the kites" - a 1964 film. Stuart Granger (Shetterhand) holds just one of the models of this rifle.

The design of the M1894 was significantly stronger than the 1866, 1873, and 1876 models based on the Benjamin Henry system. It can be fired with any modern high pressure revolving cartridges. For example, such as .44 Magnum.


Carbine produced by the company "Chiappa" M1892 ("Bounty Hunter"), "Mare's leg" with a holster. It has a 12-inch round barrel chambered for the .44 Magnum cartridge. Equipped with an enlarged cocking lever loop and a seat ring on the left receiver. Walnut stock and forend. Modeled after the carbine used by Steve McQueen on the late 50s television show Wanted: Dead or Alive.

The production of М1894 in the USA ceased in 2006.

At this time, there were 14 versions of the M1894 in the company's catalog.

Well, in 2010, Winchester Repeating Arms re-released the 1894 rifle in two "limited edition" models in honor of the 200th anniversary of Oliver F. Winchester, who was born in New England in 1810.

PS


Photos courtesy of Alain Daubresse.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
The ballad about "Winchester": a weapon for the Terminator and not only ...
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 4 March 2021 18: 21
    +8
    Now this already looks like those hard drives that are in the movies!)))
    Well, 7000000 is an impressive figure)
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. kalibr
      4 March 2021 18: 32
      +11
      In fact, this is not very much. There are many more Winchesters. But not all of them are "hard drives" that is the trick. But more on that in the following articles.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 4 March 2021 19: 04
        +5
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the article hi but ... what about the 1895 Winchester Repeating Arms Co produced under the Russian cartridge 7,62x54R, because it was supplied to Russia, where it was used in the First World War and in the Civil War. Three hundred thousand pieces were released ... Or there will be a separate article about him request
        1. kalibr
          4 March 2021 19: 07
          +7
          Quote: Hunter 2
          ... there will be a separate article about him
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 4 March 2021 19: 44
            +3
            Already pending
            1. kalibr
              4 March 2021 21: 36
              +4
              It has already been written, so the queue is not far off ...
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 March 2021 19: 34
        +4
        Vyacheslav Olegovich thanks!
        Regards, Vlad!
  2. Theodore
    Theodore 4 March 2021 18: 31
    +5
    Well, you could reload them with one hand! With a bolt, this will not work ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 March 2021 21: 28
      +4
      Quote: Theodore
      Well, you could reload them with one hand! With a bolt, this will not work ...

      But it is inconvenient to recharge while lying down.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 4 March 2021 21: 52
        +4
        Greetings Vlad. Actually, in the "growth" trench it was not so critical. I believe there were pros and cons. Olegovich will post the article - we will discuss it.
        The most important omission in my opinion - it was necessary to arm CAVALERISTS with Winchesters (Cossacks, horse life guards of all).
        And in Russia, most of the hard drives ended up in infantry units.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 March 2021 22: 40
          +4
          Good night, Alexey, about the inconvenience of shooting while lying down from a hard drive - this is not my personal experience, but only a reading of eyewitnesses and authors of those events.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 4 March 2021 23: 06
            +4
            Yes, I do not argue at all! Of course, you need to roll over on your side or stand up in the "appropriate" position laughing
            Therefore, I am sure - it was necessary to arm the Cavalry!
          2. GTYCBJYTH2021
            GTYCBJYTH2021 5 March 2021 10: 57
            +1
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Good night, Alexey, about the inconvenience of shooting while lying down from a hard drive - this is not my personal experience, but only a reading of eyewitnesses and authors of those events.

            Quote: Hunter 2
            Yes, I do not argue at all! Of course, you need to roll over on your side or stand up in the "appropriate" position laughing
            Therefore, I am sure - it was necessary to arm the Cavalry!

            So there is no difficulty for shooting "prone" from the hard drive - turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise - and reload! In the last century, in Kamchatka-Chukotka, he lived and served, so every first Chukchi reindeer breeder had such a trunk ...
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 March 2021 12: 59
              0
              Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
              So there is no difficulty for shooting "prone" from the hard drive - turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise - and reload!

              In the heat of battle, the soldiers clinging to the ground with a brace. What is not good.
              1. GTYCBJYTH2021
                GTYCBJYTH2021 5 March 2021 15: 46
                +1
                Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
                So there is no difficulty for shooting "prone" from the hard drive - turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise - and reload!

                In the heat of battle, the soldiers clinging to the ground with a brace. What is not good.

                The Chukchi shoot deftly ..... and surprisingly well ....... The film "Dark Valley" -Sam Reilly showed the villains how to shoot a Vinch ...... And the Chukchi leader gave our colonel a walrus penis with local inlays and rare winchester with cartridges ..... Here the collapse of the country, reduction ..... I do not know how he took it to the mainland, but took it out !!!
        2. kalibr
          5 March 2021 06: 41
          +3
          I, Alexey, have a photo (it will be) where I reload it. Terribly inconvenient!
  3. Undecim
    Undecim 4 March 2021 18: 33
    +12
    However, the strength of both the barrel and its bolt were such that in 1903 the barrels of the M1886 were reamed for .33 WCF (8,6 mm) smokeless powder cartridges.
    Not re-drilled, but "re-drilled". Just the strength of the barrel was not enough, so for the Model 1886 chambered for .33 WCF a new alloy steel barrel was designed. By the way, all black powder barrels were of a larger caliber: .45-70, .45-90 WCF, .40-82 WCF, .40-65 WCF, .38-56 WCF, .50-110 Winchester, .40-70 WCF, .38-70.

    Winchester Model 1886 Express Rifle chambered for 50-100 Express. Starting price from $ 500 to $ 000.
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 4 March 2021 21: 26
      +4
      Quote: Undecim
      Not re-drilled, but "re-drilled"

      By the way, yes! Reaming 11.4 mm to 8.6 mm is problematic. smile
      1. kalibr
        4 March 2021 21: 54
        +5
        Of course it was necessary to write "rearranged". But when you write quickly, sometimes ... one thing is in your head, but your hands write another ... sometimes I myself am surprised. For example, in some places it says "M1994", although I checked both when I finished and when I laid out the text. This is probably functional illiteracy. There seems to be an innate literacy ... Why not have innate inattention? When I write for TM, I am constantly reminded of the "yo". And I keep forgetting it, I write "e".
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 4 March 2021 22: 14
          +6
          When I write for TM, I am constantly reminded of the "yo". And I keep forgetting it, I write "e".
          According to the rules of Russian spelling, the use of the letter ё in most cases is optional (i.e., optional).
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, here's another, fresh, so to speak, topic. After all, the pores that run around the letter ё are not a bit lower in intensity than the disputes between the Normanists and Slavophiles. I think a story like "the scoundrel Karamzin - invented the same letter -" e "would be interesting.
          1. kalibr
            5 March 2021 06: 39
            +2
            Quote: Undecim
            a story like "the scoundrel Karamzin - invented the same letter -" e "would be interesting.

            Not a philologist at all!
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 5 March 2021 07: 17
              +3
              Not a philologist at all!
              The gods do not burn pots.
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 March 2021 13: 02
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Undecim
              a story like "the scoundrel Karamzin - invented the same letter -" e "would be interesting.

              Not a philologist at all!

              I suggest Vyacheslav Olegovich to mention an extraordinary article on weapons!
              I am joking, do not be offended!
  4. polpot
    polpot 4 March 2021 18: 38
    +6
    Thanks for the great article and illustrations.
  5. WHAT IS
    WHAT IS 4 March 2021 18: 41
    +11
    Legendary weapon! Thanks for the interesting article.
  6. mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 4 March 2021 18: 45
    +8
    I am reading your article, Vyacheslav Olegochich, and the music of Marikone is already playing in my head.
    1. kalibr
      4 March 2021 19: 08
      +5
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      and the music of Marikone is already playing in my head.

      I have not even heard, alas. I'm a narrow specialist, so ...
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 4 March 2021 19: 16
        +4
        This is a very good line of music for the best westerns or westerns, I don’t know how correctly.
        "Bad, foreign, evil"
      2. Van 16
        Van 16 4 March 2021 19: 29
        +8
        "I haven't even heard, alas."

        Probably heard, just did not attach any importance. Ennio Morricone, the legendary composer, has written a lot of good music for many films, including Spaghetti Westerns. The coolest thing is in the "Professional" with Belmondo hi
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 4 March 2021 20: 29
          +5
          "wrote a lot of good music" I remember him from the series: "Octopus", when I hear his music, I immediately remember: "Commissioner Catania" -Placida. I also remember his music in some: "spagetywesterne", the name flew out of my head
        2. Alien From
          Alien From 4 March 2021 21: 34
          +1
          I would like to learn how to insert videos or pictures into the forum (Morricone is one of the best composers in the world!
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 5 March 2021 07: 40
            +3
            It's not difficult at all. Click on the corresponding icon and paste the link, if a picture, or a code, if a video. Here is not the most complicated manual, here on the old AI or in Samizdat ... tin!
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 4 March 2021 19: 30
        +3
        Come on! I will never believe that you have not watched the legendary trilogy of Sergio Leone.
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 4 March 2021 19: 35
          +3
          Greetings Anton, I also can't believe that I haven't seen these films by Sh.V.O! Clint Eastwood became a Movie Star with these films, one of the best Western actors!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 4 March 2021 19: 46
            +3
            My respect, Alexey! Now, after thinking a little, and knowing Shpakovsky relatively well, I realized that this was possible.
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 4 March 2021 19: 49
              +3
              So even the USSR released them for hire. belay maybe I just forgot request
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 4 March 2021 20: 09
                +3
                The memory of a single human individual clings to individual "landmarks". For me, for example, the first official concert of the Spleen group will forever remain a landmark in my life, and the fact that the Rolling Stones never arrived in St. Petersburg is somehow purple ...
                1. Hunter 2
                  Hunter 2 4 March 2021 20: 13
                  +5
                  This is YES ... crying For example, I am one of the few people in the world who fell asleep at a Metallica concert drinks
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 4 March 2021 20: 31
                    +6
                    Exactly. Once, I spent some time on the countersignatures of lovely ladies on the "great Eifman" ... "You here, girls, have a taste of the ballet" incorruptible ", and I will go to vodka with the" ballet "editors to have a bite."
                  2. Alien From
                    Alien From 4 March 2021 21: 36
                    +1
                    I guess :) You were at the festival ....?)
                  3. mr.ZinGer
                    mr.ZinGer 4 March 2021 22: 33
                    0
                    .Metallics sucks, Pink floyd $ Doors rules.
              2. vladcub
                vladcub 4 March 2021 20: 53
                +2
                I just tried to remember which Leone films I watched on TV? And now nothing is remembered
            2. kalibr
              4 March 2021 21: 50
              +1
              No, "Wicked ..." I saw ...
          2. kalibr
            4 March 2021 21: 38
            +3
            Of course, I've seen the films. But I don't remember the music ...
            1. Richard
              Richard 5 March 2021 08: 37
              +3
              Films I saw music I do not remember ...

              arranged a chamomile here - I remember, I don't remember (c) laughing
        2. Abram Ivanovich
          Abram Ivanovich 4 March 2021 21: 01
          -3
          Why would a shkolot watch it? Let it be better not to skip lessons, otherwise he writes how he left the forest.
      4. ZAV69
        ZAV69 4 March 2021 19: 31
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        I have not even heard, alas. I'm a narrow specialist, so ...

        Didn't you watch "Bad, Bad, Good"?
    2. Abram Ivanovich
      Abram Ivanovich 4 March 2021 20: 53
      0
      Don't call Morricone that name. For maricon in translation is a common man.
    3. Alien From
      Alien From 4 March 2021 21: 32
      0
      This is you "cool" put it)) hi
  7. PilotS37
    PilotS37 4 March 2021 18: 46
    +5
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! You continue to pamper us ...
    Such a question: did not the cartridges in the under-barrel magazine heat up during firing? Didn't you have a problem with that?
    1. kalibr
      4 March 2021 19: 09
      +3
      Quote: PilotS37
      and the cartridges in the under-barrel magazine did not heat up when firing? Didn't you have a problem with that?

      This is the question !!! Taking off my hat! I never thought about it, but I never read about it. There was also a crack. The barrel and magazine did not touch.
      1. PilotS37
        PilotS37 5 March 2021 16: 23
        0
        There was also a crack. The barrel and magazine did not touch.

        If you fire a lot of shots in a row, the barrel will get hot and the "crack" won't save you! (Kalashnikov constantly indulges us with such stories.)
        But there are other places too:
        1) a section of the barrel, where the red-hot powder gases come out;
        2) the breech, where hot powder gases can also penetrate during fast reloading.
  8. vladcub
    vladcub 4 March 2021 19: 00
    +5
    Good evening. Today there are no Samsonovs and I have not missed V.O
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 4 March 2021 19: 43
      +7
      Quote: vladcub
      Good evening. Today there are no Samsonovs and I have not missed V.O

      Where will he go? belay here: Russia is not ready for a war with Turkey
      Today, 11:00 ... just a fierce flight of thought laughing laughing laughing
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 4 March 2021 20: 48
        +4
        It's my luck that I rarely watch Opinion
  9. Undecim
    Undecim 4 March 2021 19: 02
    +8
    The cartridge allowed, with a smaller caliber of 7,85 mm, to have an muzzle velocity of 759 m / s, which was unrealistic for rifles that fired black powder cartridges.
    The comparison is somewhat incorrect. 759 m / s is for a bullet weighing 8 grams. If we take a bullet weighing 11 grams, then the muzzle velocity will be 679 m / s. The .32-40 Winchester cartridge for black powder with the same bullet has an initial velocity of 530 m / s.
    1. kalibr
      4 March 2021 19: 10
      +3
      Quote: Undecim
      some

      This is not critical!
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 4 March 2021 19: 36
        +2
        This is not critical!
        L'exactitude est la politesse des rois and historians writing about technology.
        1. kalibr
          4 March 2021 21: 48
          +3
          ".... And the duty of all honest people" - I heard about this, but it does not always work out.
    2. Bormanxnumx
      Bormanxnumx 4 March 2021 19: 24
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      If we take a bullet weighing 11 grams, then the muzzle velocity will be 679 m / s. The .32-40 Winchester cartridge for black powder with the same bullet has an initial velocity of 530 m / s.

      And the bourgeois write that on black powder, the .32-40 cartridge provided a 10.7g bullet with a speed of 1,440 ft / s (439m / s.)
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 4 March 2021 20: 52
        +4
        And the bourgeois write
        1. Bormanxnumx
          Bormanxnumx 4 March 2021 22: 24
          +1
          I walked through the bourgeoisie regarding cartridges with a speed of 1752 ft / s - so they write that these are smokeless powder cartridges and they went into production in 1918 + in parallel, a smokeless powder cartridge with the ballistics of the "smoky" original 1440ft / s was released. in the table they are the most.
          Literally write: "From a comparison of the two catalogs mentioned there is really three types of .32-40 smokeless cartridges; namely, a bulk smokeless, one that develops the velocity of approximately the same as the black powder cartridge; a“ high velocity "cartridge of 1,752 feet velocity, and a" high power "cartridge of 2,065 feet velocity."
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 4 March 2021 22: 39
            +3
            If judging that RELODER smokeless powder is indicated, then yes.
            All kinds of equipment options can be viewed - https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/32-40/192
          2. Undecim
            Undecim 4 March 2021 23: 07
            +3
            Walked through the bourgeoisie regarding cartridges at a speed of 1752 ft / s - so they write that these are smokeless powder cartridges
            I double-checked the gunpowder in the table - really all smokeless.
          3. Undecim
            Undecim 4 March 2021 23: 26
            +2
            Walked through the bourgeoisie regarding cartridges at a speed of 1752 ft / s - so they write that these are smokeless powder cartridges
            They write that on black.
            The standard factory 165 gr. load exited the muzzle at 1,440 fps (440 m / s) and 755 ft-lbs (1,024 Joules). High-velocity offerings raised that to 1,752 fps (534 m / s) and 1,125 ft-lbs (1,525 Joules) but because the .32 and .38 rifles were built with the old, softer steel suitable for lead bullets and black powder these high -velocity loadings should not be used in the old Ballard or Stevens 44 model rifles.
            http://rileman1.blogspot.com/2016/12/32-40-winchester-8-x-535-mm-r.html
            1. Bormanxnumx
              Bormanxnumx 5 March 2021 07: 47
              +1
              In the text you quoted, it is not written that
              the high-speed 1752 fps cartridge is loaded with black powder, and it is indicated that it is not intended for old rifles designed for cartridges with a smoke and a soft lead bullet.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 5 March 2021 12: 18
                +3
                Yes, I agree. Apparently, we are talking about cartridges with smokeless powder.
  10. vladcub
    vladcub 4 March 2021 19: 42
    +5
    "they were still equipped with black powder" now I tried to remember: when did the smokeless powder appear? It seems that Mauser has been on smokeless powder since 1889, and in RI since 1891.
    I don’t know how true this is, Vika hasn’t tested it and can shake it off, but the priority is in smokeless powder for the frogs. And the Russians and the Germans had variations in French
  11. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 4 March 2021 20: 05
    +2
    Good evening everyone. Vyacheslav Olegovich almost screwed up.
    "Marlene rifles" will there be materials about her?
    1. kalibr
      4 March 2021 21: 41
      +4
      Probably Marlin. Of course there will be: “Marlin” against “Winchester”. She is already ready and on moderation ...
  12. Mooh
    Mooh 4 March 2021 20: 36
    +4
    Really no one but me, no one noticed that the floor of the article M1892 is called M1992?
    And in essence, the topic is interesting, but the article is written in such a way that nothing is clear. It is clear that the models differed from each other in the design of the shutter and the receiver, a few words have been written about this, but for a person who personally did not disassemble the hard drive, it is not possible to understand what exactly, and most importantly why, it was changed.
  13. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 4 March 2021 20: 40
    +3
    "cartridges with center firing", and before that there were: rimfire? And another question: starting with: "Henry's guns", did you use revolver cartridges (then there were no pistols)? If so, the effective shot was: 150 meters?
    1. kalibr
      4 March 2021 21: 43
      +4
      Quote: Astra wild2
      then there were no pistols

      They also used revolving and carbine cartridges. Or pistol in revolvers ... which side to look at.
  14. Alien From
    Alien From 4 March 2021 21: 02
    +4
    You know friends .....) I personally always like the elaboration of details ...... Olegovich-Well done! hi
  15. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 4 March 2021 21: 04
    +2
    "there are excellent examples of the opposite" Vyacheslav Olegovich, name these films?
    1. kalibr
      4 March 2021 21: 45
      +2
      Yes, here at least films with Eastwood ... "Evil ..." is the same ...
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 5 March 2021 14: 12
        +1
        Thank. But a few words about: "can you see in films about 1876" how many hard drives in 1876 were produced and how many of them survived by the middle of the 20th century? And there are much more hard drives in 1894. And then it is not the props that makes the film.
        What I wanted to say in defense of the creators of Westerns
        1. kalibr
          5 March 2021 15: 40
          0
          Quote: Astra wild2
          And then it is not the props that makes the film.

          But it allows you to insert some chips into the film that give it a special vitality and authenticity!
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 5 March 2021 18: 48
            0
            Maybe you are right
  16. vladcub
    vladcub 4 March 2021 21: 16
    +4
    "Faithful hand", "Among the kites," it is difficult to name a western, except a la Cooper, where there is no Winchester or Colt. I will revisit some westerns if possible. They were all different, but in any case better than "Someone else's relatives" or "Dog"
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 5 March 2021 00: 35
      +4
      Hello Slava. Watch The Magnificent Seven, if you haven't, and certainly in our dub, with which the film was at the box office. We have a better sense of humor, no offense to the filmmakers, be it said. I mean, of course, the 1960 movie, not the modern u-tomb with a black man in the lead role. smile
      Starring Yul Brynner and Steve McQueen.



      By the way, the third from left to right Mexican is not Winchester, but his own Henry. I just noticed it myself.



      In my opinion, this is a Western of "all times and peoples". good
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 5 March 2021 05: 42
        +2
        It's still not "pure" Henry, but already Henry-Winchester, at first the lack of a forend confused me, but our Lexus slightly corrected me.
      2. kalibr
        5 March 2021 06: 23
        +3
        Quote: Sea Cat
        In my opinion, this is a Western of "all times and peoples".

        + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
  17. Dimide
    Dimide 4 March 2021 22: 03
    -1
    The article is, as always, on the level, professional criticisms only add completeness to the picture.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, have you not forgotten about the legendary product of the brothers Emil and Leon? wassat
    1. kalibr
      5 March 2021 06: 25
      +3
      Quote: Dimid
      legendary product of brothers Emil and Leon

      Lies waiting for an hour!