Military Review

Bayonets in battle: yesterday and today ...

156

In the photo, clearly Soviet militias are being trained in bayonet combat under the guidance of an instructor. But look what kind of rifles they have and what kind of bayonets are they wearing?


For more than three centuries stories bayonet, it was used in battle repeatedly, but every decade less and less. As a result, in our days, even a one-on-one duel of a soldier with a bayonet with an adversary with an adversary is called a "bayonet attack" and rewarding for this ... the Military Cross!

I write in measured verse
Not too quick.
Let him talk about the war
Throwing away all the tinsel
And does not sound
Antediluvian cymbal.
Hurray for victory without speeches
And no noise effects.
Now the course of the war depends
From the powerful muscles of the machines.
She's in hand
Crafts and artisans.
“A utilitarian look at the fight of The Monitor by Herman Melville. (translated by Ign. Ivanovsky)

History weapons. So, the creation of the bayonet in the middle of the XNUMXth century led to the fact that the bayonet attack became the main tactic of the infantry during the XNUMXth and even at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. However, already in the XNUMXth century, many military men noted that the presence of a bayonet no longer leads to such frequent close combat as before. Instead, one side usually fled before the actual bayonet battle began. It was increasingly believed that the use of bayonets was primarily associated, so to speak, with the level of the soldier's morale, since it gave a clear signal to both his own and the enemy about his full readiness to kill at close range.

Bayonets in battle: yesterday and today ...
Robert Hillingfot. "Redan attack on Malakhov Kurgan!" It seems to be a bayonet, yes, but in the center the Scotsman became so brutal that he strangles our soldier ...

Recall that bayonet attack was a common tactic even during the Napoleonic Wars. But even then, detailed lists of casualties in battles showed that in many battles only less than 2% of all treated wounds were inflicted with bayonets. Antoine-Henri Jomini, a famous military writer who served in various armies of the Napoleonic era, wrote, for example, that most bayonet attacks resulted in one side simply fleeing even before close contact was established between opponents. Bayonet fighting did take place, but mostly on a small scale, when the units of the opposing sides collided with each other in a confined space, for example, during the assault on fortifications or when ambushed on rough terrain. Fear of hand-to-hand combat in all other cases prompted people to flee in advance of meeting the battle lines. That is, the bayonet became more and more a means of psychological influence and was less and less used to inflict wounds.


Triangular bayonet on the Martini-Henry rifle. Battle of Izandlvan - during the Anglo-Zulu War on January 22, 1879

During the American Civil War (1861-1865), the bayonet, as it turned out, was responsible for less than 1% of losses on the battlefield, that is, it was used only sporadically. But although such attacks brought few casualties, they nevertheless often determined the outcome of the battle. In addition, bayonet training could be used to simply prepare recruits for action on the battlefield.


An English soldier during the Second Boer War with a Lee-Metford rifle with a blade bayonet. Illustration by artist A. Kokorin from the book by Louis Bussenard "Captain Tear the Head" (Penza Book Publishing House, 1956)

But there were also exceptions. Thus, although the Battle of Gettysburg was won by the Union armies mainly through massive artillery fire, the decisive contribution to victory was associated with the bayonet attack at Little Round Hill, when the 20th Maine Volunteer Infantry Regiment, seeing that it was running out of ammunition, joined the bayonets and rushed into the attack, surprising the Southerners and capturing many of the surviving soldiers of the 15th Regiment of Alabama and other Confederate regiments.

The vision of the battles of the First World War evokes in our minds popular images from the movies, where waves of soldiers with bayonets sited rushing forward under a hail of enemy fire bullets. Although this was the standard method of warfare at the start of the war, it was rarely successful. The losses of the British on the first day of the Battle of the Somme were the worst in the history of the British army: 57 soldiers and officers who were out of action, 470 of whom were killed.


Moroccan gumiers, 1914

During World War I, no man's land was often hundreds of yards across. This area was usually pitted with craters from artillery and mortar shells, and sometimes poisoned with chemical weapons. Protected by machine guns, mortars, artillery and arrows, the positions of both sides were also covered with rows of barbed wire, land mines, and also littered with the rotting corpses of those who had not passed through it earlier. Therefore, it is not surprising that a bayonet attack through such a "no-man's land" was such a difficult moral and physical test that it often led to the complete destruction of entire battalions, and therefore such attacks ... were tried in every possible way to avoid!


British Native Infantry, 1915 With Lee-Enfield rifles ...

Already at the beginning of the 1904th century, the proliferation of machine guns made bayonet attacks questionable. So, during the siege of Port Arthur (1905-XNUMX), the Japanese several times attacked its fortifications with masses of infantry with bayonets attached, went to the Russian artillery and machine guns, suffering huge losses. One of the descriptions we know of what was seen there after the attack is this:

"A solid mass of corpses covered the cold earth like a carpet."


A still from the movie "The Man with a Gun", 1938. Look how he is wearing a bayonet ...

True, during the Second Sino-Japanese War, the Japanese were able to effectively use bayonet attacks against poorly organized and armed Chinese troops. However, the Russian soldiers, as noted by military observers and journalists from different countries, were attacked with shouts of "Banzai!" did not make any impression.


It is interesting that needle bayonets were also used on rifles of the 30s of the last century. For example, this was the bayonet of the French rifle MAC-36


And this is his handle, with which he was attached under the barrel in a special socket!

Almost the same thing happened in World War II. The surprise Banzai bayonet attack was effective against small groups of US soldiers who were not trained for this form of combat. But by the end of the war, the Japanese were suffering horrific losses in such attacks. As a result, the Japanese simply squandered valuable human resources in them, which hastened their defeat.


“We are from Kronstadt”, 1936. Attacking even such a liquid line of defense with infantry lines, and even a machine gun, was just the height of madness or despair. Although, of course, the defenders could run out of cartridges ...

Some Japanese commanders, such as General Tadamichi Kuribayashi, recognized the futility and futility of such attacks and categorically forbade their men to carry out them. And the Americans were really surprised that the Japanese did not use such attacks in the Battle of Iwo Jima.

The combination of infiltration and bayonet attack by PLA units during the Korean War was very cleverly used. The typical Chinese attack took place at night. Several groups of five were sent to look for the weakest point in the enemy's defense. They had to crawl discreetly to UN positions within grenade throw range, and then suddenly attack the defenders with bayonets attached to break through the defenses, relying on shock and confusion.


And this is how our red sailors go into a bayonet attack in the same film!

If the initial blow did not break through the defenses, additional groups were advanced to help. As soon as a gap formed, the bulk of the Chinese soldiers poured into it, who moved to the rear and attacked on the flanks. Often such short attacks were repeated until either the defenses were broken or the attackers were completely destroyed.


German soldiers of WWII are trained in bayonet combat

Such attacks made a strong impression on the UN forces that fought in Korea. Even the term "human wave" appeared, which was widely used as a cliché by both journalists and the military to describe an attack by an overwhelming number of Chinese on the front. But this, however, did not correspond to reality at all, since small groups acting covertly and against a weak spot in the line of defense could not be called a "wave". In fact, the Chinese rarely used infantry masses in attacking enemy positions, since the firepower of the UNPO troops in Korea was extremely high.


American bayonet for Springfield rifle in .30-40-02 caliber

However, this does not exclude the fact that in Korea ... the Americans themselves went to bayonet attacks! For example, in the US Army Infantry Museum in Fort Benning, Georgia, there is a diorama depicting an attack by the officer of the 27th Infantry Regiment of the US Army Lewis Millett at Hill 180, for which he received the Medal of Honor.

Historian S. L. A. Marshall described this attack as "the most genuine bayonet attack since Cold Harbor," since of the 50 North Koreans and Chinese killed there, about 20 were stabbed to death with bayonets. Subsequently, this place was named: Bayonet Hill. The medal was officially presented to Millet by President Harry S. Truman in July 1951, and then he was awarded the second most important award of the American army - the Distinguished Service Cross, due to the fact that in the same month he led another such bayonet attack. Apparently, he just liked "this case", especially since in both cases he was lucky to stay alive ...


Distinguished Service Cross - USA Award

Interestingly, during the Korean War, the French battalion and the Turkish brigade were also not averse to hitting the enemy with hostility!

In 1982, the British Army used bayonet attacks during the Falklands War. In particular, the 3rd Battalion of the Parachute Regiment during the Battle of Mount Longdon and the 2nd Battalion of the Scottish Guards during the last assault on Mount Tumbledown.

In 1995, during the siege of Sarajevo, French infantry from the 3rd Marine Infantry Regiment from the Blue Helmets launched a bayonet attack against Serb forces at the Vrbani Bridge. As a result of the collision, two people were killed, another seventeen were injured.

During the Second Gulf War and the War in Afghanistan, British Army units also carried out bayonet attacks. In 2004 in Iraq, at the Battle of Danny Boy, Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders' mortar battery positions were attacked by more than a hundred Mahdi Army personnel. As a result of the ensuing hand-to-hand combat, more than 40 rebels were killed, and 35 bodies were picked up (many sailed along the river) and 9 prisoners were taken. Sergeant Brian Wood of the Royal Regiment of the Princess of Wales was awarded the Military Cross for his participation in this battle.


Military Cross - British award

In 2009, Lieutenant James Adamson of the Royal Regiment of Scotland was awarded the Military Cross for the fact that, while on duty in Afghanistan, he first shot one Taliban fighter, and when he ran out of ammunition and another Taliban appeared, he hit him with a bayonet. In September 2012, Lance Corporal Sean Jones of the Princess of Wales Regiment was awarded the Military Cross for his involvement in the October 2011 bayonet attack.

To be continued ...
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 February 2021 05: 06
    +11
    Thanks for continuing the topic, although much is debatable.
    For example, I wondered how bayonet fighting differs from hand-to-hand combat?
    Good day to everyone, your Kote!
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 16 February 2021 05: 22
      +11
      Hello, hello! hi
      Yes, that's right, it's difficult to draw a clear border here. As it was in the song: "You hit with a bayonet, but better hit with your hand ..." (c).
      I join the gratitude to Vyacheslav. drinks
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 05: 53
        +5
        Konstantin, didn't you live in the museum of the Soviet Army?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 16 February 2021 06: 37
          +7
          No, Vladimir hi , I "lived" in the weapons department of the State Historical Museum, but in the storehouse of the SA Museum I was hanging around regularly, less often in the Mosfilm armory.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 07: 05
            +3
            Quote: Sea Cat
            No, Vladimir, I "lived" in the weapons department of the State Historical Museum, but I used to hang out in the storehouse of the SA museum regularly, less often in the Mosfilm armory.

            What did I ask? Here, the other day I came across this pornography, a photo from the CA museum:
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 16 February 2021 07: 10
              +6
              Volodya, and what pornography is, I somehow did not understand. request
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 07: 12
                +6
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Volodya, and what pornography is, I somehow did not understand.

                Look at the knife. Screwed through the blade with a screw, you scum. Fuck, don't get up.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 16 February 2021 07: 16
                  +7
                  You can't really see it here, the devil only knows. I'm not familiar with the current employees, but those whom I knew for a long time in retirement, or ... well, you know.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 07: 22
                    +3
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    You can't really see it here, the devil only knows.

                    Such a cool bitch fucked up, would kill them.
                  2. Mister X
                    Mister X 18 February 2021 18: 45
                    +1
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    You can't really see it here, the devil only knows. I am not familiar with current employees

                    hi
                    My attempt to find out failed
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 19 February 2021 15: 12
                      +1
                      Hi Michael! hi

                      It's good that they answered at all, we could have ignored it. smile
                      1. Mister X
                        Mister X 19 February 2021 15: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Hi Michael!

                        Hi Constantine! hi
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        might not have paid attention

                        For this, I warmly thanked the employee of the museum.
                        On occasion, I will always assert that true professionals work in the museum in the Soviet Army.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 February 2021 16: 27
                        +1
                        It used to be that way, it's nice to know that this has not changed. smile
                      3. Mister X
                        Mister X 19 February 2021 17: 41
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        nice to know that it hasn't changed

                        At least Elena Alexandrovna Porodina, the scientific secretary of the museum.

                        I knew a girl who was selling stationery in a large company.
                        There were several of them on the phone, but the rest did not really fiddle with clients.
                        And it was easy for this one to jump into the warehouse, try on a folder with a ruler, see what colors the markers were left, etc.
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 February 2021 17: 55
                        +1
                        There are, of course, People, but there are few of them, and more and more like that shoemaker: "If only they would fall off their hands, they would fall off their feet themselves." smile
                      5. Mister X
                        Mister X 19 February 2021 18: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        more and more like that shoemaker: "If only they would fall off their hands, they would fall off their feet themselves"

                        Your truth smile
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 February 2021 19: 12
                        +1
                        Unfortunately, it is universal. request Go to Shpak about early firearms, there is already sabantuy. wink
                      7. Mister X
                        Mister X 19 February 2021 19: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Go to Shpak about early firearms, there is already sabantuy.

                        Saw the headline until I'm ready to read.
                        Let them continue without me wink

                        I have a leg of pork in the oven.
                        Homemade peppercorns are tired of waiting ...
                        I will leave spiritual food for later drinks
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 February 2021 19: 40
                        +1
                        Demon tempter! I can't, yesterday I got vaccinated from Kovidu ... negative
                      9. Mister X
                        Mister X 19 February 2021 21: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        I can't, yesterday I got vaccinated from Kovidu ...

                        But we can!
                        Instead of vaccination, because we do not know when they will start to vaccinate.
                        Not a single batch of "miraculous injections" has been brought to the country.
                      10. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 February 2021 21: 33
                        0
                        I have a friend, one of the leading doctors, so he ordered when and where exactly, which we did. And with my age God himself ordered me to inject myself. Yesterday the first, in March the second. And all the holidays without alcohol, the rarest case in my practice. wink
                      11. Mister X
                        Mister X 19 February 2021 22: 48
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        all holidays without alcohol, the rarest case in my practice

                        There is no vaccine in Moldova, but there is alcohol.
                        During the holidays I will drink to your health!
                      12. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 February 2021 23: 19
                        +1
                        Thank you, I'll get back to normal, I'll do the same. smile drinks
  • Catfish
    Catfish 16 February 2021 07: 21
    +3
    No, it doesn't look like a screw. I took out the contrast in Photoshop, look.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 07: 24
      +4
      Quote: Sea Cat
      No, it doesn't look like a screw. I took out the contrast in Photoshop, look.

      There shouldn't be anything there. From the word "in general".
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 16 February 2021 07: 30
        +1
        Can't there be something like a stopper so that it doesn't fall out of the scabbard?
        So this is just an ordinary Finnish woman.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 07: 47
          +5
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Can't there be something like a stopper so that it doesn't fall out of the scabbard?

          There were none. They shoved them at least half a hand into the sheath.
      2. sleeve
        sleeve 16 February 2021 14: 45
        +1
        Bullet-free?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 14: 47
          0
          Quote: sleeve
          Bullet-free?

          The museum workers riveted so that they would not lose the knife.
      3. The comment was deleted.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 19 February 2021 15: 25
          -1
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Look above, there is Michael (Mister X), answered from the museum.

          Yeah, the secretary sits and the photo determines what it is. wink
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 February 2021 22: 50
    +1
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Volodya, and what pornography is, I somehow did not understand.

    Look at the knife. Screwed through the blade with a screw, you scum. Fuck, don't get up.

    What else to do? Remember the phrase that has become, perhaps, a "classic": "How is it in Russia? They steal!" ...?
  • Mister X
    Mister X 18 February 2021 18: 43
    +2
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Look at the knife. Screwed through the blade with a screw, you scum. Fuck, don't get up.

    hi
    I turned to the museum for explanations, I am attaching the answer.
    A better photo was not provided to me, so I could not find out anything about the bolt.
    Maybe go to Patriot Park on Minsk highway
  • Mister X
    Mister X 16 February 2021 19: 18
    +1
    .
    hi
    It's strange that the author missed the Patriotic War of 1812


    Borodino. Attack of the Semyonovsky Life Guards Regiment

    History is replete with bayonet attacks by both the Russians and the French.
    There were not only those killed, but also survivors.

    In a bayonet battle, division commanders, Generals Neverovsky and Vorontsov, were wounded and carried away from the battlefield.

    General Bonami, taken from the Raevsky battery, was all stabbed with bayonets
    I saw him; his face was so hacked and bloodied that it was impossible to distinguish a single feature

    - wrote Nikolai Muravyov, who served as quartermaster in 1812.
  • Alien From
    Alien From 16 February 2021 21: 58
    0
    And I join in all the thanks! An interesting series of articles from a respected author hi
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 05: 30
    +10
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    For example, I wondered how bayonet fighting differs from hand-to-hand combat?

    And nothing, probably ...
    1. CastroRuiz
      CastroRuiz 16 February 2021 14: 41
      -7
      Postroilis kolkhozniki prikolno. :)))
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 15: 25
        +2
        Quote: CastroRuiz
        Postroilis kolkhozniki prikolno. :)))

        You yourself are a collective farmer. And this is the militia, you must understand.
      2. Fat
        Fat 16 February 2021 18: 46
        +1
        Not cool. Techniques are learned slowly, otherwise it is generally useless. The capitalist Ford method. The action is broken down into small details. This is how the skill is developed.
    2. boni592807
      boni592807 23 February 2021 19: 12
      +2
      mordvin 3 (Vladimir), February 16, 2021 05:30, NEW
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      For example, I wondered how bayonet fighting differs from hand-to-hand combat?

      And nothing, probably ...

      Colleagues, it is somehow inconvenient for you and in this resource too .. repeat
      . Bayonet battle - one of the parts of the Republic of Belarus. This was during the RI and the USSR (especially before the Second World War), after the Second World War, a lot of things were emasculated (both bayonet fighting and the RB itself). Sources of the sea, there would be a desire ...
      By the way, our potential "partners" do not forget about the above, incl. and now ... We are also watching, reading ... Yours faithfully, .... hi
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 05: 36
    +8
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    For example, I wondered how bayonet fighting differs from hand-to-hand combat?

    Here, for sure, nothing, I found more pictures.

  • Civil
    Civil 16 February 2021 07: 40
    +6
    And this is how our red sailors go into a bayonet attack in the same film!


    They stayed only in films. About bayonet (hand-to-hand), on the site of memoirs of veterans is.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 16 February 2021 08: 09
    +4
    I do not know. But even in 1991 at the military school I was introduced to the techniques of bayonet fighting. True, this was argued as a way of conducting actions when the cartridges ran out and classes were held in preparation for guard duty. And a minimum of fighting techniques (hand-to-hand combat) - later on physical.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, traditionally thanks for the material.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 16 February 2021 13: 08
      +8
      But even in 1991 at the military school I was introduced to the techniques of bayonet fighting. True, this was argued as a way of conducting actions when the cartridges ran out and classes were held in preparation for guard duty.

      We were also taught. In the 4th year, some villain jumped from the roof of the warehouse to the sentry and grabbed his machine gun. The sentry applied the technique of "disarming the enemy when approaching from the front," bounced off the attacker and stabbed him in the stomach with a bayonet. The enemy fell. Having distorted the bolt, the sentry gave a turn at close range. The attacker, with a bayonet wound and several bullet wounds, died in hospital. Thanks to the cadet. And we are a real fact from life that we need both hand-to-hand combat and bayonet.
    2. garri-lin
      garri-lin 16 February 2021 19: 10
      +1
      Bayonet and hand-to-hand combat were closely taught to those who would have to fight in various kinds of rooms with concrete walls. In a turnout of 5,45, you won't shoot much. Rsskazyval VDVshni served in the mid-90s.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 February 2021 08: 50
    +7
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    how bayonet fighting differs from hand-to-hand combat

    I wish you good health, Vladislav! hi In modern descriptions, the concept of "hand-to-hand combat" is often replaced by "close combat" ... because. , even with a "close contact" with the enemy, the outcome of the case was often not decided by a bayonet or a knife; a point-blank shot from a machine gun or a pistol!
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 February 2021 11: 53
      +4
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      In modern descriptions, the concept of "hand-to-hand combat" is often replaced by "close combat" ... because. , even in case of "close contact" with the enemy, the outcome of the case was often not decided by a bayonet or a knife; a point-blank shot from a machine gun or a pistol

      What's the difference? The Germans did not see the difference between "close combat" and "hand-to-hand". Because the move (and the outcome) is always unpredictable. Spanga "Nahkampfspange" (this one)

      was issued for participation in close combat. You can call it melee - there is no difference. And the criterion of "proximity" was - to see the whites of the enemy's eyes (... das Weiße im Auge des Feindes)
      If semantics is so important, then is this instruction on close combat or melee?

      ))
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 14: 52
        0
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        If semantics is so important, then is this instruction on close combat or melee?

        Isn't it all the same? The main thing is to kill the enemy.

  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 16 February 2021 11: 33
    +5
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    For example, I wondered how bayonet fighting differs from hand-to-hand combat?

    I read all the comments and returned to yours. You set the tone. It differs in words. wink We can say that bayonet fighting is part of hand-to-hand combat. A bayonet thrust is the first phase, then there may be a blow with a butt ... There are tricks on how to knock out the enemy's weapon even with a front sight. wink
    With the advent of automatic weapons and mechanization, classic combat has changed. Especially in cities. Even a whole type of cavalry troops disappeared. The bayonet has changed. He is now required versatility - to stab the enemy, and open a can of stew, and cut a branch ....
    Training the soldier in hand-to-hand combat is part of the moral preparation for facing the enemy face to face. Running in with tanks is also a part of moral preparation.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 February 2021 17: 17
      +1
      Thank you all very much for the detailed comments!
      I will express my opinion.
      What is "fight"?
      Combat is an organized armed confrontation limited on the ground and in time. A battle is an aggregate of strikes, fire and maneuver of troops (forces) coordinated in purpose, place and time. It is the main active form of combat operations of military units and units of forces - military personnel, subunits, units (ships)

      He took the first definition of the floor that came across. In principle, I agree, except for "organization". If one of the parties is not organized, then the meaning of the term (concept) will not change.
      Now "types (forms) of combat clashes"? In fact, there is an endless variety of them, but we are interested in the key feature - distance. In this connection, we distinguish two modem: long-range (distant, remote) and near (hand-to-hand).
      Again
      The main active phases of a combat encounter (attack, defense) can also be distinguished.
      Move on. What is broader in the conceptual apparatus according to formal logic: close combat, hand-to-hand combat, bayonet combat.
      Close combat is the broadest concept that does not deny the use of all available types of weapons, both cold and firearms.
      Hand-to-hand combat - according to the established practice, the content is analogous to "neighbor".
      Bayonet fighting - the ability and skills associated with the use of edged weapons. Narrower than the first two.
      Thus, I personally got the following: bayonet fighting is a subspecies of hand-to-hand (melee) combat. Currently, as a factor of an unexpected set of circumstances (out of ammunition, etc.). Which is not considered as the main method in the management of the unit.
      Now let's look at what a bayonet attack is. Bayonet attack and defense are essentially outdated methods of achieving assigned tasks in dense infantry formations (battles, squares). In fact, a kind of recreation of the phalanx. It was effective once again in a close formation, when the commander has the ability to control the unit. This technique died in the First World War. With the advent of automatic guns and shrapnel.
      Count the attempts to "go with hostility" during the Second World War? I think it is not true, it was already in fact a battle that was not correct, which should have been avoided. Was he organized, as opposed to acting in a column or square conditionally.
      In fact, as the comrades put it - close combat.
      Well, somewhere like that.
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 16 February 2021 18: 38
    +1
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Thanks for continuing the topic, although much is debatable.
    For example, I wondered how bayonet fighting differs from hand-to-hand combat?
    Good day to everyone, your Kote!

    Comrade Kote hi
    I remember that the program of hand-to-hand combat in the SSS Armed Forces included bayonet fighting, bayonet-knife fighting and small infantry shovels. We also had an optional fight with a short lance - a stick, in fact. Each type had its own "kata" of varying difficulty. And so an assault rifle with a bayonet is a dangerous and versatile thing: you can stab with a bayonet, hit with a stock, a magazine, you can block someone else's weapon, a lot of things can be done if you do this.
    1. Fat
      Fat 19 February 2021 05: 13
      0
      You have noted correctly. For a sentry on duty, hand-to-hand skills are often much more important than marksmanship. The skill of "bayonet" fighting turns out to be more important. Therefore, when carrying out a Combat mission of protection and defense, the sentry is always equipped with a bayonet on alert ...
      I went to the belt every other day. and why I remember the tool on the barrel. Driven by training. After all, the sentry has nothing, except for 2 equipped magazines and a bayonet, but skills, character ... and hope.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 19 February 2021 18: 21
        0
        Quote: Thick
        You have noted correctly. For a sentry on duty, hand-to-hand skills are often much more important than marksmanship. The skill of "bayonet" fighting turns out to be more important. Therefore, when carrying out a Combat mission of protection and defense, the sentry is always equipped with a bayonet on alert ...
        I went to the belt every other day. and why I remember the tool on the barrel. Driven by training. After all, the sentry has nothing, except for 2 equipped magazines and a bayonet, but skills, character ... and hope.

        I agree in everything, friend, except for 2 equipped stores. It seems that there were 4 loaded, if 7,62 and 5 stores, if 5,45.
        1. Fat
          Fat 19 February 2021 18: 43
          +1
          It's good that I did not go to the SPS, it was not our competence.
          AKM - Our Everything was ... Even now I transfer the cassette to the store and vice versa in less than half a minute ... skill, etit.
          Two! we had two, one side-by-side, the second - in the pouch there are only 60 reportable death units 7,62.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 26 February 2021 15: 43
            0
            Quote: Thick
            It's good that I did not go to the SPS, it was not our competence.
            AKM - Our Everything was ... Even now I transfer the cassette to the store and vice versa in less than half a minute ... skill, etit.
            Two! we had two, one side-by-side, the second - in the pouch there are only 60 reportable death units 7,62.

            Yes exactly. Blunted, sorry.
  • Mister X
    Mister X 16 February 2021 18: 56
    0
    hi
    The bullet is a fool. The bayonet is great!
    Save the bullet for 3 days, and sometimes for the whole campaign, as there is nowhere to take.
    Shoot rarely, but accurately; bayonet if tight.
    The bullet will cheat, the bayonet will not cheat: the bullet is a fool, the bayonet is great!
    * Suvorov Alexander Vasilievich
    Treatise for officers and non-commissioned officers
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 19 February 2021 10: 19
      0
      Quote: Mister X
      The bullet is a fool. The bayonet is great!
      Save the bullet for 3 days, and sometimes for the whole campaign, as there is nowhere to take.
      Shoot rarely, but accurately; bayonet if tight.
      The bullet will cheat, the bayonet will not cheat: the bullet is a fool, the bayonet is great!
      * Suvorov Alexander Vasilievich
      Treatise for officers and non-commissioned officers

      We read carefully about this -

      1. Mister X
        Mister X 19 February 2021 13: 29
        +1
        Quote: Tank Hard
        We read carefully about this.

        there are no tricks in the "Regulations on the infantry combat service" of 1881

        The simpler, the better the soldiers will learn.
        And the more accurate and fatal will be the blow.
        Russia is not Japan, and a bayonet is not a halberd to swing over your head.

        Fencing textbook by N. Sokolov (1843)
        In it, the chief fencing teacher of the Guardsmen also examines bayonet fighting.
        The technique of bayonet fencing was deliberately kept as simple as possible to provide the best opportunity for mass, army training.
        In Sokolov's textbook, there are only 3 basic defense positions (not counting the additional protection from a saber strike from above), and in the manual for 1907 - only 2.

        Alex Valville, a recognized authority on Russian fencing classics.
        He generally takes the bayonet to the first place (just before the sword) for "horror".

        1938 Hand-to-Hand Combat Training Manual
        It contains a considerable arsenal of bayonet techniques, creatively developing the legacy of the First World War and the Civil War.
        On the basis of the NPRB-38 in 1940, Major Nechaev created a methodological manual on bayonet combat and rifle techniques for the command staff of the Red Army, taking into account the combat experience of 1938-1940.

  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 16 February 2021 05: 14
    +5
    Look at how he is wearing a bayonet ...
    laughing Damn, I didn't notice ...
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 16 February 2021 05: 19
    +10
    What are we all about "foreignism"? I would look for an author about the "bayonet battle" in Afghanistan, which he received development, including the development of new methods of both defense and defense for the AK, because the spooks also did not shun hand-to-hand combat.
    1. AUL
      AUL 16 February 2021 08: 07
      +4
      I got the impression that this is a translation of an article from some amerskoy magazine, where several of our photos are inserted.
      1. Proctologist
        Proctologist 16 February 2021 13: 13
        0
        Of course!
        During World War I, no man's land was often in the hundreds yards across.
  • Destiny
    Destiny 16 February 2021 05: 30
    +21

    Agafonov Semyon Mikhailovich
    Squad Commander of the 181st Special Reconnaissance Detachment of the Northern Fleet, Petty Officer 1st Class, perhaps the best Soviet master of hand-to-hand combat. Behind him he had more than 50 successful amphibious operations behind enemy lines, where his ability to silently lay a dozen people in a trench came in handy.
    He heroically proved himself at the memorable Cape Krestovoy: he was one of the first to break through the ranks of the Germans and personally captured an entire artillery battery and two machine guns. Later, under the incessant heavy fire of the enemy, he volunteered, together with a small group, to cover the retreating forces of the soldiers. When a day later the crossing of the latter ended, the Red Army men, doomed to death or captivity, led by Agafonov, were able to break through to the boats. During the ensuing bayonet and hand-to-hand combat with the many times superior enemy, the landing was able to destroy more than a hundred Germans, and Agafonov himself replenished his personal account with 20 enemy "heads".

    By the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of November 5, 1944, for courage and heroism shown in battles against the Nazi invaders, Sergeant Major Semyon Mikhailovich Agafonov was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union with the award of the Order of Lenin and the Gold Star medal.
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 16 February 2021 05: 34
    +12
    To rush into a bayonet attack, you need to have strong eggs, especially if the enemy has placed mines in front, shot every meter of the battlefield and is psychologically ready to go into a bayonet attack. And then not everyone will be able to stick a bayonet correctly in the eye, neck, liver, heart and turn the bayonet inside a person a couple of times. Psychological preparation is very important in this matter.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 February 2021 06: 52
      +3
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      To rush into a bayonet attack, you need to have strong eggs, especially if the enemy has placed mines in front, shot every meter of the battlefield and is psychologically ready to go into a bayonet attack. And then not everyone will be able to stick a bayonet correctly in the eye, neck, liver, heart and turn the bayonet inside a person a couple of times. Psychological preparation is very important in this matter.

      Yes, this is an ordinary infantry attack (ground attack) with the dominant role of firearms laughing It's just that if you come close to the enemy and you have nothing to shoot with (there is no time to change the store, for example), then in your hands you have a kind of spear from an assault rifle and a bayonet on it. For the rest, absolutely standard psychological preparation of a stormtrooper, only instead of poking a flash suppressor in the face or sternum, you do it with a bayonet with a knife)))
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 16 February 2021 07: 02
        +3
        You tell a botanist from a school bench when a hefty fellow with a terrible face rushes at him and even threatens to offend his mother. smile Of course, you can't catch a peasant with such a performance, but you can easily take a non-fledgling youth on a weak one. How many of them break down in the army under the pressure of their grandfathers ... Then disentangle them with crossbows and executions. In order to avoid such cases with Shamsutdinov, I first of all paid attention to the psychological treatment of recruits, to teach a person not to be afraid of threats and insults, and, of course, to the ability to defend himself in a fight with a numerous enemy, including a bayonet, a knife and any object at hand.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 16 February 2021 07: 23
          0
          Although the army teaches first of all to kill the enemy ... quickly and efficiently. what
          1. Prisoner
            Prisoner 16 February 2021 07: 44
            +4
            Not the entire army is taught to do this explicitly. It is one thing when gunners from howitzers struck or helicopter pilots processed enemy positions with NURS. They may not see the result of their work, at least the process of destruction of manpower. Special forces require strong training. Especially after leaving the reserve, it is important. For some reason it seems so to me.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 16 February 2021 19: 09
              0
              Quote: Captive
              Not the entire army is taught to do this explicitly. It is one thing when gunners from howitzers struck or helicopter pilots processed enemy positions with NURS. They may not see the result of their work, at least the process of destruction of manpower. Special forces require strong training. Especially after leaving the reserve, it is important. For some reason it seems so to me.

              A normal scout from special forces after leaving for the reserve needs only normal work in civilian life, and nothing else.
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 February 2021 12: 58
            +2
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            although the army teaches first of all to kill the enemy ... quickly and effectively

            what does all these banzai attacks with bayonets have to do with "fast and effective"? What kind of snot about some "fellow", prush on "not fledgling youth"? What, nafig, "psychological treatment" of yesterday's puberty, who entered the army for only a year?
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 February 2021 07: 49
          +2
          For starters, a soldier must learn to fear his sergeant more than anyone else. laughing
          But then you need order in the army.
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 16 February 2021 08: 13
            +3
            Discipline is, of course, above all, but a sergeant can intimidate a recruit so that he then, in a fit of vengefulness, can shoot in the back. So here you have to look at who you are scaring ... a normal person or a vengeful scumbag.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 16 February 2021 08: 16
              +1
              This also happens - but rarely
              The main thing, intimidating is not to mock
              Shout, drive, but not scoff
              1. Fat
                Fat 16 February 2021 08: 41
                +8
                Greetings Albert.
                "If you love soldiers like children, then you can go with them to any gorge. If you love them like your own beloved son, then you can even go to death with them."
                Sun Tzu. Art of War.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 16 February 2021 08: 52
                  +3
                  Greetings! hi
                  I do not agree with Sun))
                  1. aglet
                    aglet 16 February 2021 14: 05
                    +4
                    "I do not agree with Sun))"
                    So do I.
                    "wherever you kiss a soldier, everywhere ..."
                    such a popular saying goes on sun
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 16 February 2021 15: 32
                      0
                      Quote: aglet
                      "I do not agree with Sun))"
                      So do I.
                      "wherever you kiss a soldier, everywhere ..."
                      such a popular saying goes on sun

                      I have not heard, but I completely agree with her good laughing
                    2. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 16 February 2021 19: 21
                      +1
                      Quote: aglet
                      "I do not agree with Sun))"
                      So do I.
                      "wherever you kiss a soldier, everywhere ..."
                      such a popular saying goes on sun

                      There is such a saying, and there are reasons for this, probably. But from experience I know - how you treat the service, so does she (and the soldier too) treat you. I did not have a soldier who in the 2nd year of service would meet this "criterion". Yes, I had to have sex with others a lot, but even those on whom they had already put an end to it, in the end became real soldiers. As the unforgettable teacher in psychology said - you have to work!
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 February 2021 20: 11
                        +1
                        It is absolutely necessary to work, but I wrote about KMB. In your organic part, you work with people, and at KMB you work with children who came from a citizen.
                      2. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 16 February 2021 21: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        It is absolutely necessary to work, but I wrote about KMB. In your organic part, you work with people, and at KMB you work with children who came from a citizen.

                        Oh, you're fucking interesting. And where do they come from? And in comparison with the training of the KMB in the part - a sanatorium.
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 February 2021 21: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        It is absolutely necessary to work, but I wrote about KMB. In your organic part, you work with people, and at KMB you work with children who came from a citizen.

                        Oh, you're fucking interesting. And where do they come from? And in comparison with the training of the KMB in the part - a sanatorium.

                        Well, of course, damn it, interesting - I served in Israel lol Our KMB and other courses (in combat units) are held mainly in training units.
                        In short - from the recruiting station people go to the KMB
                      4. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 16 February 2021 21: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        It is absolutely necessary to work, but I wrote about KMB. In your organic part, you work with people, and at KMB you work with children who came from a citizen.

                        Oh, you're fucking interesting. And where do they come from? And in comparison with the training of the KMB in the part - a sanatorium.

                        Well, of course, damn it, interesting - I served in Israel lol Our KMB and other courses (in combat units) are held mainly in training units.
                        In short - from the recruiting station people go to the KMB

                        Freebie, in general laughing On the walls of the training school where I underwent my initial training, it was written: whoever does not die in Novoselytsy, Buchenwald is terrible for him. Verbatim. Well, like, dark military humor. But, indeed, the order in the military school is a continuous liberalism after that. laughing
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 17 February 2021 09: 24
                        0
                        Well ... KMB they are of different duration and degree of complexity)).
                      6. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 18 February 2021 18: 23
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Well ... KMB they are of different duration and degree of complexity)).

                        KMB was only a month old.
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 18 February 2021 18: 39
                        +1
                        And I have six months laughing Was supposed to be 4 months, but because of Ramadan it lasted from November to the end of April)) We were pulled up to reinforce the police
                      8. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 18 February 2021 19: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        And I have six months laughing Was supposed to be 4 months, but because of Ramadan it lasted from November to the end of April)) We were pulled up to reinforce the police

                        I wanted to put you +, but drunk I pressed the wrong direction (. Half a year KMB - I would also serve like that laughing
                      9. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 18 February 2021 22: 09
                        0
                        They were slightly different with us laughing
    2. Momotomba
      Momotomba 16 February 2021 22: 25
      0
      Quote: aglet
      wherever you don't kiss a soldier, everywhere ... "

      we used to say: "Wherever you kiss a soldier, you only kiss him ..." laughing
  • Fat
    Fat 16 February 2021 19: 27
    +1
    I do not quite agree, but I am calm for the purity of the quote.
    What do you teach your son? How to be in a complex world? How to distinguish scoundrels from their own. How?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 February 2021 20: 19
      0
      About the army? ))
      Away from the bosses, closer to the kitchen.
      Gold sinks and shit always stays on the surface.
      That which does not kill tempers, and that which kills hardens your mother.
      The man in the tank burns out faster.
      Sappers - a diamond heart, gold hands, legs - titanium.
      If the attack is going too smoothly, know that you are on the right track straight into an ambush.
      An infantry error - an infantryman dies.
      Artillery error - infantryman dies.
      How they will have you at the KMB is negligible compared to how they will have your fiancée while you are in the army.
      Better letting you go to court, two guards, than four colleagues carry your coffin to the grave.
      hi
      1. Fat
        Fat 16 February 2021 22: 19
        0
        Cool, Bro! good
        It's funny that they took it out.
        As a fellow countryman said: "Never burned in the tank" fellow
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 February 2021 21: 00
    0
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    not everyone will be able to stick a bayonet correctly into the eye, neck, liver, heart and twist the bayonet inside a person a couple of times ..

    Even "looking" into the depths of history for thousands of years, one can find examples in written sources of that time, how human nature resists killing his own kind! Already at that time, such facts were noted when legionnaires in battle struck with a sword flat, and not with the point or cutting side of the weapon! It is difficult for a mentally healthy person (and even a beast ...) to "just" destroy their own kind! Sociologists argue that this is precisely the reason lies in the US concept of remote warfare!
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    To rush into a bayonet attack, you need to have strong eggs,

    There are stories of front-line soldiers about hand-to-hand combat ... Cases were mentioned when in battle it was enough just to touch the enemy with a bayonet, as he fell dead ... such physiological tension was present in the soldiers! It is akin to historical examples, when a person sentenced to death was blindfolded and "hit" with a finger (or a rolled towel ...) on the neck ... a person immediately died ...
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 19: 51
    0
    no need to twirl the bayonet, not sadists. once.
    beating off. lunge prick, bounce, etc.
    But it is imperative to look in the eyes, and to beat in the face.
    So you go wild. My grandfather told me. He had 7 Germans in a bayonet.
  • Fat
    Fat 16 February 2021 06: 03
    +14
    Greetings. Vyacheslav Olegovich. You described a hand-to-hand situation using a bayonet. Already in the late 40s, early 50s.
    I'm not entirely sympathetic to the message of the article (or misunderstood)
    Bayonet, close combat is inevitable in a number of situations. As a way to do without a lot of blood, oddly enough the same. Simply attached bayonet-knives and magazines in position "To fight doubts about the seriousness of the intentions of a small group in relation to the crowd, causes a serious cooling of aggressiveness.
    It is necessary to seriously master the techniques of bayonet fighting. If you want to survive. Then not even a duralumin oar, but a stick will give you a chance to stand and put a group of villains to flight.
    Why am I? The fact is that my father was a bayonet instructor during the formation of the 5th Airborne Division 39th Rifle Division. As a graduate of the ShMK, he had to teach the newly arriving commanders the skills of fighting with a bayonet-knife. (VDK were equipped with SVT) 39 RD initially, in autumn 42 the same.
    My father almost got under the tribunal, carrying out the order of some "Thomas from the reserve". He cut in a short "sparring" some senior commander of the Bayonet Master Type of the times of counterrevolution. The freak insisted on lifting the security restrictions. In short. Gymnast, belt pants in the trash, bruise in the face. Cancellation of classes. Arrest - abuse of authority of the instructor - trek to the guard watch under escort without a belt through the location.
    The father spoke, the khan thought. So no, the abused major came and defended it, like it's his own fault.
    So my father went to Stalingrad as privates of the mortar crew ...
    The possession of weapons was preserved.
    Father once brushed aside five marauders at the boat station ... with an oar. God forgive me. not duralumin. I guarded our "Veterok" type. Adrenaline-filled panties. I remember. For life - a skill is never superfluous. Nowhere clearer.
    1. aglet
      aglet 16 February 2021 14: 20
      0
      "As a graduate of the ShMK, he had to teach the newly arriving commanders the skills of fighting with a bayonet-knife"
      it is very interesting how he got these skills, there were no bayonet knives in the armament of the spacecraft at that time. shmk is a school for junior commanders? in our opinion, sergeant training, no? there they taught mainly machine gunners, riflemen, radio operators, miners and even cooks. but not bayonet-knives.
      "train newly arrived commanders"
      but they did not come from anywhere, at least not in the quantity to train them as sergeants, they still served in the same 5th Airborne Forces, and then they were transferred to the 39th Infantry Division
      1. Fat
        Fat 16 February 2021 18: 31
        0
        It's trite! The airborne corps were equipped with SVT and ABC without exception. 5 VDK from March to September, in the suburbs stood after the battles in the baltics. Reorganized into 39th Rifle Division in September 1942. Then it, VDK5, was recreated. A 39 held the defense at the Krasny Oktyabr plant in Stalingrad. Father "left" two days before our offensive, a mine fragment in the knee, while organizing the battery life. How then he got to Our shore does not know. And that was an impossible ass.
        In Stalingrad, "former paratroopers" were killed very, very much. 39 RD was lucky (2 other SDs simultaneously formed on the basis of 3 VDK like. I will not say in memory, they perished almost without exception at the tractor plant)
        in February 43, she became a Guards ... 39GSD with a glorious path.
        And ... Yes, in every VDK there was a SMK. They didn't cook from the street. My father knew German well (two courses in Yingaz) ... Well, of course the cooks, the al-clerk prepared ... wassat
        You are an adult! Look about the storming of Stalingrad yourself - you will not find it, write to me in a personal, I will give a link to the murderous documentary articles. With respect.
        The son of a soldier.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 16 February 2021 07: 07
    +11
    But look what kind of rifles they have and what kind of bayonets are they wearing?


    The first on the left has a French rifle by Nicolas Lebel "Le fusil modèle 1886". The third, it seems, also has it. You can't really understand the rest.

    The second (it seems) rifle of Emile Berthier arr. 1907/15.

    A complete set of bayonets for the French army during the First World War.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 07: 11
      +5
      Quote: Sea Cat
      The first on the left has a French rifle by Nicolas Lebel "Le fusil modèle 1886". The third, it seems, also has it.

      The militia, you see. They had both Lewis and Arisaki.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 16 February 2021 07: 13
        +7
        And where to go, not to shove machine guns with bare hands. And Lewis was a very good machine gun, the British also used it with success in World War II.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 10: 50
          +6
          And where to go, not to shove machine guns with bare hands. And Lewis was a very good machine gun, the British also used it with success in World War II.

          The militia also saw the Polish version of the BAR. Apparently, a trophy from the 1939 campaign.

          In general, take a look at the footage of the November 1941 parade. Antique artillery flashes there! Not the main shots, but you can make out. Anti-aircraft guns are partly represented by Lender's guns. Part of the divisions are French Schneider's guns of 1897, never in service with the Russian / Soviet army. Apparently, the same is the trophy of the Polish campaign. They took out everything that was for the war! drinks
          To the author of the article - it is written easily, unobtrusively, clearly. Thank! hi
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 16 February 2021 11: 22
            +4
            Exactly, Polish BAR Browning wz. 1928.

            Yes, at that parade I also noticed a sort of artillery "archaic". smile
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 11: 55
              +6
              Yes, at that parade I also noticed a sort of artillery "archaic".

              What was at hand was put out! That is, part of our reserves then approached museum exhibits. request at least those supplies that could be put on the parade without prejudice to the defense at the moment. soldier
              In 1945, the Germans will do the same - handing out rare samples (often without cartridges) to pensioners and Hitler Youth. It won't help them ... negative
              Exactly, Polish BAR Browning wz. 1928.

              It is interesting that Taras in his book "Operation Weiss" writes that the Poles released it without a license. He's probably twitching. Surprisingly different - in the Polish army, as well as in the US army, it was the main light machine gun. Although in Poland at the beginning of the war there were several models of light machine guns in service - where they got it, the noble ones. There they had Shosha, and something else ...

              It was a variant of the CSRG M1915 machine gun, converted in the early twenties to the 7.92x57 Mauser cartridge. In total, several thousand machine guns were converted in Poland. The machine gun received a protruding magazine receiver similar to the American M1918, but the front grip was located in the old place, behind the magazine.
              http://vault8.pro/pulemet-shosha-nespravedlivaja-zhertva-chernogo-piara/
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 16 February 2021 12: 38
                +4
                Kohl, thank you, I not only have not seen such a variant of "Shosha", but have not heard about it either. good
                And Taras, in my opinion, is too great a gunsmith to trust his word. negative
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 12: 56
                  +3
                  Kohl, thank you, I not only have not seen such a variant of "Shosha", but have not heard about it either.

                  Uncle Kostya, just found it today. when I was looking for pictures to answer you. drinks Here is the link:
                  http://vault8.pro/pulemet-shosha-nespravedlivaja-zhertva-chernogo-piara/
                  The "great accumulators" - the Germans - did not disdain them either.
                  It should be noted that during the Second World War, the Shosh machine gun was officially adopted by the Nazi army. In the Wehrmacht, the Shosh machine gun received the following names - 8 mm French - MG-156 (f); 7,65 mm Belgian - MG-126 (b); 7,62 mm Yugoslav - MG-147 (j).
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 16 February 2021 14: 05
                    +4
                    And where are the Polish ones? !!!
                    In fact, in the photo there are some incomprehensible SS men with our corporal stripe, such were worn only by traitors from various formations in the Wehrmacht and in the SS.


                    Then it is understandable why they were given such crap: "God forbid that we do not want." laughing
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 14: 31
                      +2
                      In fact, in the photo there are some incomprehensible SS men with our corporal stripe, such were worn only by traitors from various formations in the Wehrmacht and in the SS.

                      If this is RONA - this is the Kaminsky brigade?
                      The devil only knows what a riffraff. Yes, I checked, there were no such shoulder straps in the "German" SS. But if shoulder straps are embarrassing, then "SS" buttonholes are embarrassing to these shoulder straps. request I did not find a photo of RON with such buttonholes - only with similar buttonholes of the Wehrmacht. Apparently, runic letters were not relied on to Hitler's accomplices, well-wishers. negative
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 14: 59
                        +2
                        I do not understand, but what is wrong with the photo? This is a trophy, they captured it from the guardians.
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 15: 01
                        +2
                        I do not understand, but what is wrong with the photo?

                        It is not clear what kind of unit. Some kind of non-German riffraff, it seems.
                      3. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 15: 14
                        +2
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Some kind of non-German riffraff, it seems.

                        And this is not the first world war?
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 15: 29
                        +3
                        And this is not the first world war?

                        The front has SS runes on the helmet. The very back has the same runes in the buttonhole.
                        And helmets during WWI were of a slightly different shape - with larger fields.
                      5. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 15: 35
                        +2
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        The front has SS runes on the helmet.

                        Yes, I'm blunt here. But I found:
                        It should be noted that during the Second World War, the Shosh machine gun was officially adopted by the Nazi army.

                        https://8war.ru/vooruzhenie/pulemet-shosha.html
                      6. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 15: 42
                        +5
                        Yes, I also posted a link to another site above - but with the same photos. good Thank you! drinks
                        But from yours:
                        Under ideal conditions, a clean, well-groomed machine gun would jam after 300 rounds. In the field, in the mud and trenches of the western front, it broke down after 100. And anyone who had to fire as many as 100 shots is obviously in danger and needs to shoot more.
                        If the option for the French army was problematic, then the "American" version, carelessly converted for the 30.06 cartridge, was even worse. During tests carried out by the American Expeditionary Forces, 40% of the machine guns had to be abandoned ..

                        Hmm ... request
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 16 February 2021 15: 05
              +2
              Here are the buttonholes of the SS "fellow-well-wishers".
            3. saygon66
              saygon66 17 February 2021 15: 20
              +2
              - It looks like a Finnish SS volunteer battalion
              - Eastern "volunteers" were forbidden to wear the insignia used in the Wehrmacht, and even more so the runes ...
            4. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 17 February 2021 15: 22
              +3
              It looks like a Finnish SS volunteer battalion

              By the way, I found the "sleeper" at one Latvian "figure" - the photo below.
              Anything can be. It seems to me that Himmler himself, in his overgrown multi-haired SS, would have broken his head.
            5. saygon66
              saygon66 17 February 2021 15: 30
              +2
              - "Sleepers" are similar, but Latvians have a three-color shield sewn on the sleeve, above the elbow, and the bespectacled man has a corner of the patch on the jacket cuff

              - That's how these ...
            6. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 17 February 2021 15: 35
              +3
              - "Sleepers" are similar, but Latvians have a three-color shield sewn on the sleeve, above the elbow, and the bespectacled man has a corner of the patch on the jacket cuff

              Indeed, so you start to take apart the little things in the photo, and you will be amazed. Thank you, Konstantin! good And these Finnish "figures" belonged to any division?
            7. saygon66
              saygon66 17 February 2021 15: 40
              +2
              -5th Panzer Division "Viking", and then 11th Division "Nordland"
            8. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 17 February 2021 15: 49
              +3
              -5th Panzer Division "Viking", and then 11th Division "Nordland"

              Where were the Scandinavian well-wishers gathered? And in the 6th division "Nord" they did not participate, it seems?
            9. saygon66
              saygon66 17 February 2021 15: 57
              +2
              - As far as I know, mountain rifle "Nord" was recruited from the citizens of the Reich, and all "racially close" served in "volunteer -" Freiwilligen "units ... And, yes," Nord "was noted in Finland and Norway, as well as near Murmansk, where fought unsuccessfully ...
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 14: 42
    +2
    from various formations in the Wehrmacht and in the SS.

    Found a similar figure - at the bottom right, the holder of glasses.

    Written by the Latvian SS Legion.
    https://www.ritmeurasia.org/news--2019-10-07--uroki-zhestjanoj-gorki-rossija-zavodit-ugolovnye-dela-na-latyshskih-legionerov-45279
    Assassins, in short. negative
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 16 February 2021 14: 59
      +2
      I found this kind of crap, but in general, the devil will break his leg in this case for the Fritzes, I suppose themselves. confused. laughing
    2. saygon66
      saygon66 17 February 2021 15: 32
      +1
      - These are generally the insignia "Afrikakorpus". smile
      - Tropical dress ...
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 15: 53
    +1
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Assassins, in short.

    What more!
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 16: 18
    +4
    What more!

    Fighter Vasily Vataman cries for them ... Near the town of Neisse in March 1945, a faustpatron in hand-to-hand combat scored either 8, or 10, or even 13 Nazis. In any case, he received the Order of the Patriotic War II degree for this battle.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 16: 44
    0
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Fighter Vasily Vataman cries for them ... Near the city of Neisse in March 1945, a faustpatron in hand-to-hand combat scored either 8, or 10, or even 13 panazis. In any case, he received the Order of the Patriotic War II degree for this battle.

    I forgot about the story, about our machine gunner, who was tired of retreating, and he put a column of Fritzes at the entrance to the city. I can't remember about him in any way.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 17: 01
    +3
    I forgot about the story, about our machine gunner, who was tired of retreating, and he put a column of Fritzes at the entrance to the city. I can't remember about him in any way.

    I haven’t heard about this, but Alexey Makarovich Smirnov looked very good with MG-42. soldier

    The Germans were rightly afraid of him:
    “On July 20.07.43, 283,0, in the region of height 40, the enemy with a force of up to 17 Hitlerites attacked the battery, comrade. Smirnov, encouraging the fighters, rushed into battle with his personal weapons and fought off the attack with rifles and machine guns. 7 Nazis remained on the battlefield, he personally took XNUMX Nazis prisoner.
    Apparently there is a typo here - I think 44.
    https://warspot.ru/12992-boevoy-put-lyubimogo-aktyora
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 16 February 2021 17: 10
    +2
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    The Germans were rightly afraid of him:

    No, not him. Here, I found it.
    “Don steppes, sweltering summer of XNUMX. The forces of the Steppe and Voronezh fronts are rolling back to Stalingrad. Continuous retreat. Escape. Father - the commander of a sapper platoon, along with his unit goes in the tail of the troops. Mining waste. The stragglers, the most exhausted, pass by. That peasant, as he told, he then remembered.

    A hunted uncle sits by the rubble, smokes. Look - under your feet. No pilot, no belt. Nearby is "Maxim". There is no second issue either. He smoked, got up, picked up the machine gun, rolled on. Duffle bag on a white back, down to the ground. Father said that even then he thought that the soldier would not get there. The old one is already over forty. Broke down, says the man. You can immediately see ...

    The sappers also retreated. They did not have time to move away, they hear - a battle in the village. Parts of the rearguard stood up. Order back. The Germans surrender the village without a fight. Enter. An infantry battalion is in the central square. As the Fritzes walked in formation, they lay down in a row. About a hundred and fifty people. Something unprecedented. Then, in the 42nd, there were still no weapons of mass destruction. Many are still showing signs of life. They finished it off immediately ...

    Calculated the situation in the shelling sector. Found in a couple of minutes. The one is lying - broken. The Germans chopped it into mincemeat with bayonets. "Maksimka" lifted its trunk into the sky, soars. The canvas tape is empty. The peasant had only one box. And more and not needed - would not have time.

    The winners walked to themselves, fucking like a parade - a marching column of five, or six, as they have it according to the charter. The patrol rattled on a motorcycle - the village is free! Like, "Russian shvayne" skedaddle. But not all…

    One is tired of running. The peasant decided to stand up to the last for Russia, for Mother ... He lay down in the front garden between the lilacs, kissed the frame of the sight on the road, led the barrel right and left. Okay ... Now - wait.

    And I probably didn't wait long. Handsome men are walking. Well, he gave it - from thirty meters! Left to right, in line. A machine-gun bullet at point-blank range, about five people will sew right through and not choke. Then again back and forth, over those who were from their knees, but lay down looking around. Then on the ground, according to the dear, so that they do not lie on it without asking. And so he drove from side to side until all two hundred and seventy cartridges were spat out in them.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 February 2021 17: 12
    +4
    Here, I found it.

    Honor and glory. And eternal memory.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 16 February 2021 17: 48
    +4
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Fighter Vasily Vataman cries for them ... Near the town of Neisse in March 1945, a faustpatron in hand-to-hand combat scored either 8, or 10, or even 13 Nazis. In any case, he received the Order of the Patriotic War II degree for this battle.

    But this girl is what:

    Well, how could they have won? hi
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 February 2021 09: 41
    +2
    Well, how could they have won?

    Against Baida, their chances were nil. angry However, a heroic girl! love
  • Fat
    Fat 16 February 2021 22: 45
    +1
    Konstantin, thank you. Where does it come from. 1943 Military Translation Manual. In his hands he held ... This is not from that manual. The case when "details" are important.
    Did you find it before and put it on display only now?
    You cannot perceive the depths of my regret. in such a case, you must immediately share.
    people should know how traitors endowed themselves with "ranks-titles" and for what "merits"
  • Avior
    Avior 16 February 2021 08: 10
    +6
    The very fundamental possibility of bayonet combat is inextricably linked with the capabilities of the enemy's fire density.
    The higher the possibilities for the density of fire, the lower the probability of bayonet combat.
    And if the mere appearance of a unitary cartridge allowed bayonet fighting, then the appearance of magazine rifles and a special machine gun sharply reduced its possibility in principle. A similar situation with the cavalry, by the way. Gradually, the role of a war horse was reduced to a vehicle for transporting mobile infantry units, and with the massive motorization of the army, this became impossible, perhaps at the parade. Saturation of the enemy ranks with automatic weapons made such a battle a case with a special set of circumstances. The appearance of submachine guns, mass arming with machine guns, the proliferation of mortars already practically severely limited bayonet combat, and the transition of armies to fully automatic weapons made it possible only by a coincidence. It was not for nothing that the Americans removed the bayonet from the army, it remained only in the MP for now.
    And somehow everyone forgot about the famous attempt at bayonet fighting :))))
    1. Avior
      Avior 16 February 2021 08: 27
      +5
      However, I forgot about another well-known example of a bayonet psychic attack :))))

      smile
      1. kamakama
        kamakama 16 February 2021 09: 35
        +5

        here is a somewhat non-classical, but in the sense of the bayonet attack. In general, filmmakers can shoot anything. There is no point in letting the enemy get closer, except to protect the cartridges. But this is very dangerous - the advantage of the equipped position is lost. The enemy already has speed, is already at full height, he has a high morale, and the defenders still need to get up from the trench, group up, and the formation for bayonet combat is different from small one. If they ran to "Chapaev", the people in the rifle trenches would simply be trampled
        1. Avior
          Avior 16 February 2021 10: 00
          +7
          In Chapaev, the machine gun began to be used at 30 meters, at a distance of throwing grenades. If the attackers had thrown grenades at this moment and would have made a dash immediately after that, then the bayonet could well have been successful, besides, most of the defending bayonets either did not have at all or did not join.
          But there, both sides have a lot of ridiculous decisions.
          Starting from the attack on the machine gun in close ranks, at a leisurely pace.
        2. Avior
          Avior 16 February 2021 23: 16
          0
          at first I also thought the tactic was strange
          But on reflection, I came to the conclusion that she was quite thoughtful
          Close up, not a single cartridge leaves by, you can shoot quickly and without aiming, just load in time
          The fact that they retreated to the second obstacle made it possible to slow down the attackers at the required distance for shooting. The attackers did not have weapons for combat at a distance - they would have bows or javelins in the right amount, and if the attackers had taken cover behind the fence, there would have been hedgehogs from the defenders.
          Although, of course, tactics are risky, if there are enough cartridges, fire must be opened from a long distance, they could have been crushed if it had not been possible to keep the rate of fire
          1. kamakama
            kamakama 17 February 2021 10: 24
            0
            Well, this is the point of engineering obstacles such as barbed wire (spotting, Bruno's spiral) - to detain the enemy at a certain line, and not stop. So that the enemy would be marking time, and be a good target, but he himself would not shoot. Such structures do not make sense without fire cover.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 16 February 2021 12: 49
        +3
        Just now I noticed that a bayonet had been attached to one "Sturmgever" here. laughing
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 16 February 2021 12: 49
      +3
      And somehow everyone forgot about the famous attempt at bayonet fighting :))))

      Sergey, hello. hi Yes, there was no such attack, you yourself laugh, as the Kappelevites did not have the Markov uniform. One of the Vasilievs (they are not brothers) served in the Civilian Division of General Markov, so, you see, he remembered his exuberant youth and beautiful form, he played himself there, in the form of a lieutenant.
      No wonder this episode of "Chapaev" made a parody, which you posted below.
      But the Vasilievs' attack was brilliantly removed. good
      1. Avior
        Avior 16 February 2021 13: 04
        +4
        Good afternoon.
        I understand that this is an artistic device in the film.
        And it looks interesting.
        But simply visual-bayonet in close rows on a machine gun in the general case is suicide.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 16 February 2021 13: 53
          +1
          Here I agree completely.
  • kamakama
    kamakama 16 February 2021 09: 22
    +3
    In fact, as it was noticed long ago and as can be seen in one of the first photos, before the beginning of the 20th century, a rifle with a bayonet is actually a spear from which you can also shoot. A bayonet fight (namely a battle, not an attack) requires a complete failure in reconnaissance, because a mass of people is needed, approaching a distance of 10-20 meters. And this is real now, as it was noticed, only during the clash of small units (in urban battles, for example, a massive bayonet attack is unrealistic), when reconnaissance is minimal, or as a means of despair when the ammunition runs out or mass shelling of defensive positions, when you die anyway, so even in the fresh air.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 February 2021 10: 04
    +5
    Very interesting article! Moreover, it touches upon "nuances" that many have not thought about! The answer is given to the question: "Does a fig need a bayonet or a knife at the beginning of the 21st century?" ...! The controversy: "Does a modern soldier need a bayonet?" Was also waged in the second half of the last century ... In a number of armies, assault rifles without bayonets were introduced into infantry armament! In the last century, there was a discussion in the United States about the bayonet in the American army ... One well-known general spoke up in defense of the bayonet ... He stated that even in the case when an American soldier would never be able to use a bayonet, but knowing that He is trained in bayonet combat and he has a bayonet, the soldier will act confidently and boldly in battle, without fear of close combat! Perhaps the general was prompted to this statement by the results of the ground battles in Vietnam! In order to neutralize the absolute superiority of the American troops in equipment and weapons, the Vietnamese widely used close combat tactics, using then cold weapons! The Americans were not ready for this! There were cases when the soldiers, seeing the attacking Vietnamese "with bayonets at the ready", forgot that they had rifles, forgot to shoot (!) And in fear "gave a crack"! It was then necessary to return training in hand-to-hand combat to the infantry! (True, I heard that at the beginning of this century, the US Army still decided to abandon bayonets ... in any case, new rifles entering the troops are not equipped with bayonets! But I did not check the reliability of this!)
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 February 2021 10: 20
    +5
    Vyacheslav Olegovich! You wrote a very interesting article and gave several examples of the use of edged weapons in modern times! But I want to remind you of the recent events in Karabakh! In the descriptions of the battles in Karabakh, there is a story of the capture of Shusha by the Azerbaijani special forces as a result of close (hand-to-hand) combat with the use of knives and pistols ... in any case, the Azeris say so! "Fresh tradition, but hard to believe!" What do you know about this "episode"? It goes well with your article!
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 February 2021 11: 26
    +5

    Yes, this is not "training". The zoldates are pinned under the camera.
    This:

    training.
    and instruction:

    1. Trapp1st
      Trapp1st 16 February 2021 12: 48
      +7
      Bayonet attack training, judging by the helmet end 30s
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 February 2021 13: 18
        +3
        Quote: Trapp1st
        Bayonet attack training, judging by the helmet end 30s


        canadian army. Apparently, the 20th.
        ))
        1. saygon66
          saygon66 17 February 2021 15: 37
          +1
          - Modern Japanese!


  • Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil 16 February 2021 11: 53
    +3
    Robert Hillingfot. "Redan attack on Malakhov Kurgan!" It seems to be a bayonet, yes, but in the center the Scotsman became so brutal that he strangles our soldier ...
    The eye hurt. Maybe it's Reduta after all? Redan is from the field of shipbuilding.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 16 February 2021 15: 17
      +7
      Redan is from the field of shipbuilding.
      And also from the fortification area.

      Redan or redant - an open field fortification, consisting of two faces at an angle of 60 - 120 degrees, protruding towards the enemy, and allowing to conduct rifle and artillery oblique fire.
      The Allies called the Third Bastion the Great Redan, located at the Bomborskaya height, which is located in Sevastopol on the Ship side between the Dock and Laboratory beams, a kilometer from the Malakhov Kurgan.
  • CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 16 February 2021 14: 58
    +3
    Vdol dorogi zashumeli, zagudeli provoda,
    shtik bolshoy na maliy ne meniayu nikogda.
    Iz Marsha kolkhoznikov. :)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 February 2021 23: 38
    +1

    This video is an attempt to show how the bayonet was worn in the "inoperative" position ...
  • Kamaz
    Kamaz 17 February 2021 04: 16
    +1
    At the expense of the bayonet attack in the Falkland Malvinas, complete nonsense. Yes, the British brought the Nepalese reckless mercenaries of the Gurks, they went on the attack at night only with crooked knives. So all these idiots were stopped by one Argentine machine gunner for 10 hours
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 17 February 2021 16: 53
      0
      - Where does this information come from?
      - In 1982, in the battle for Tumbledown Hill, the Scottish Guards (2nd Battalion) and the Gurkha (Own, Duke of Edinburgh Regiment), being on the left flank of the attack on Tumbledown Hill, at 2:30 a.m., as a result of a bayonet attack on the 5th position battalion of marines of Argentina, captured the height. It is mentioned that one of the British stabbed two Argentines, breaking a bayonet in the second ...
  • Konnick
    Konnick 17 February 2021 12: 18
    0
    For example, I will now cite lines from the award for the squad commander of the 46th separate motorcycle regiment, which in April of the 42nd became the 2nd Guards for the battles near Rzhev. This regiment was armed with 100% PPSh since October 41st, i.e. they had no bayonets.

    Award for Guards Chief Yudin Pyotr Andreevich, born in 1915 presented to the Order of the Patriotic War, 2nd degree. Nationality Russian. He has three wounds ...

    Guards senior Yudin P.A., in battles against the German fascist invaders in the area of ​​Rzhev for the villages: Polunino, Durakovo from 14.8.42 to 30.8.42; Rzhev from 22.09.42/30.09.42/4.12.42 to 9.12.42/XNUMX/XNUMX, Litvinovo from XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, skillfully organized the battle of his squad, his squad MANY TIMES WAS HAND-TO-HAND FIGHTS IN THE ENEMY'S TRENCHES AND IN THESE BATTLES WAS THE WINNER ...

    Polunino, Durakovo, Litvinovo ... in these places the most fierce battles took place near Rzhev. hand-to-hand fighting in the presence of automatic weapons took place only in trenches, in an open field it did not make sense. No master of bayonet combat with a rifle will be able to counter an enemy with an automatic weapon.

    PS
    Yudin P.A. died on January 21, 45th, as a mechanic-driver of the IS-2 tank, 1st Guards Tank Corps, 15th Guards. tank brigade. Went through the whole war ...
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 20: 08
      0
      I tell how my grandfather told. At 41 they left Yelnya after the landing. I had to go hand-to-hand. but PPSh refused him. I picked up a three-line. Stabbed seven. left the environment.