Military Review

Heavy British "Bulldog" ...

95

Vebley No. 2 five-shot revolver, British Bulldog (circa 1889) (Royal Arsenal, Leeds)


The larger the bullet, the stronger its impact. Even if she does not kill, she is guaranteed to knock down, and this is what the shooter most often achieves. But in long-barreled revolvers, the recoil when firing such bullets was very high. That's when short-barreled British Bulldogs appeared ...

Forget crossbows and pikes -
Retired on time
Cast in stainless nickel
Heavy British Bulldog!

Didn't come off the conveyor belt -
Handmade and plan,
Systems "Vebley" or "Trenter",
Bland Price or even Varnan.

Or maybe Francott's systems,
Lying at the bottom of the holster
Where Abadi's door is the gate
Gateway to other worlds!
Gordon Lindsay

Weapon and firms. There is no doubt that the interest of the readership in the "revolving series" is very high. And I myself am interested in all the "tricks" of this topic to understand and admire all these deadly "toys". It should be noted, however, that the series would not have taken place if it were not for the kind attitude of various "overseas" and European "partners" towards us, who, without hesitation and setting any commercial conditions, agreed to provide me with photographs of their samples of ancient weapons. Just like the keeper of the fonts from the local history museum in Perm, where I wrote, and from where I literally immediately received photographs of the Goltyakov's "Galan" they had. It is pleasant to deal with such people and absolutely unpleasant with our museum workers, who either do not answer letters at all, or ... demand some incredible money for their photographs. Well, God be their judge!

One of the readers asked me to write about ... "revolver", and there will certainly be material about it and even, most likely, more than one. But there is no way a suitable epigraph can be found for an article about him. But for the material about the English Bulldog revolver, he was found almost instantly. And if so, then let him go first. So today we will have история about the blunt-nosed, short and very deadly revolver, named after the dog's breed and, as they say, was the favorite weapon (when he needed it!) of the legendary detective Sherlock Holmes!

Heavy British "Bulldog" ...
.450 nickel plated "Webley" five-shot "British Bulldog" double action, central action, Model 1872. Design: Philip Vebley and Son. Barrel length 64 mm. Nearby is his patron. Produced for .442 Vebley (11,2 mm), 450 Adams (11,5 mm), .445 (11,3 mm) Bulldog cartridges. There were also 12,7 mm caliber models!

And it so happened that Philip Vebley, together with his son, a native of Birmingham, where they had a small enterprise "Webley & Son Company", already producing revolvers, in 1867 decided to create a special revolver for the Royal Irish Constabulary. Decided and done. And the very next year, the first production Webley RIC model was adopted by the police (constables) in Ireland. The Webley RIC model 1867 revolver was designated "Webley RIC No. 1". And the commercial sample of this model, released in 1872 - "Webley RIC No. 2". The characteristic features of both revolvers were the presence of a pear-shaped barrel with a bar at the top, tightly screwed into a frame, which was one-piece. The drum was smooth; only the late (released in 1883) "new model" - "Webley RIC No. 1 New Model", received its characteristic valleys. The trigger mechanism on all models was double-acting, and the extractor rod was located inside the hollow axis of the drum. Caliber .442 (М1867), then .450 and even .476. The barrel length of the first model was 112 mm and 89 mm for the second. Weight, respectively, 900 g for the first and 800 g for the second. The revolver received a rather peculiar name "Ulster Bulldog" and served in one way or another in the British police ... more than 50 years, becoming one of the most popular and recognizable samples of Vebley's weapons.


Revolver "Trenter" M.1868 (commercial model). Photo by Alain Daubresse

Interestingly, this revolver was very similar to another English revolver - "Trenter" M.1868 (commercial model). Moreover, the British War Office actively purchased them for the army during the war with the Zulu. And it is understandable why: they were simple in design, produced in single and double action, and also favorably differed from all others in their caliber, the designation of which ("450") was knocked out on their barrel.


Revolver "Ulster Bulldog": "Vebley" RIC No. 1 (early model). Caliber 11,2 mm. Weight 900 g. Drum for six rounds. Photo by Alain Daubresse

Now it is difficult to say who influenced whom more - the father and son of Vebley on the Trenter or Trenter on the Vebley, but in the end, both of them had their own large-caliber revolver. And here Vebley, and this was already 1872, decided to further improve this revolver. To reduce its metal consumption, it has a very short barrel, just 2,5 inches (64 mm) long, for very large .442 Vebley or .450 Adams cartridges, five-round drum. The revolver was named "British Bulldog" - under this name and went down in history. Later, Vebley's firm also produced smaller revolvers chambered for .320 and .380 calibers, but they were not named "British Bulldog".


Cartridge caliber .450 Adams

Henry Vebley registered it as a trademark only in 1878. From that time to the present, this term has come to denote any double-action short-barreled revolver with a folding ejector and a short handle of a characteristic shape. They were intended primarily for wearing in a coat pocket, so many of them have survived to this day in very good condition, since they were practically not used.


American Bulldog advertisement

An important advantage of this revolver was also the fact that it did not have ... not a single patented part, that is, it was all "made up" of "cubes", the validity of the patents for which had passed. That is, it could be produced by any manufacturer, and they could differ only by the emblem. For example, Vebley had a blunt winged bullet, while others, say, having slightly changed the design, could put their own brand on almost exactly the same revolver.


"The last stronghold of Caster." Figure: Liliana and Freda Funkenov. Perhaps only they most accurately conveyed everything that happened in that fatal battle, and used for this all the available information


The famous illustrator Giuseppe Rava, for example, armed "his Caster" with something incomprehensible at all ...


However, even the Americans themselves, in their drawings, made literally in hot pursuit of these events, disagreed on what Caster was still armed with in his last battle. Library of Congress


Revolver "Bulldog" of the Sherlock Holmes Museum on Baker Street. Mentioned in the story "Lonely Cyclist"

So "Bulldog" began to be produced by several firms in different countries at once, and it quickly gained "worldwide" popularity. And even in America. For example, US Army General George Armstrong Caster, in a battle with the Indians at Little Bighorn, was armed (there is such data) with just a pair of revolvers of this type. And the employees of the railway company "Company of the South Pacific Railway" were armed with revolvers "British Bulldog" as a standard weapon until 1895.


An advertisement for a German "Bulldog" made at an arms factory in Berlin. New York Public Library


Vebley & Son's Bulldog for the military police. Caliber .450. Photo by Alain Daubresse


Such was the "door of Abadi" on it - "the gate to other worlds"! Photo by Alain Daubresse


And this is a very indicative mark with handcuffed hands, indicating for which "organization" this revolver is produced. Photo by Alain Daubresse

Copying "Bulldog" has acquired a downright incredible scope. Its numerous copies and variants (authorized and unauthorized) at the end of the 44th century were produced in Northern Ireland, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Pakistan, France and the USA. In the United States, copies of it were produced by such well-known firms as Forehand and Woodsworth (Worcester, Massachusetts), Iver Johnson (Jacksonville, Arkansas) and Harrington and Richardson (Worchester, Massachusetts). Belgian and American models (for example, "Frontier Bulldog") were made for .442 Smith and Wesson American or .XNUMX Vebley.


Forehand & Woodsworth's Bulldog. Photo by Alain Daubresse


The original device of the revolver "Forehand and Woodsworth" under the patent of 1871


Revolver "Harrington and Richardson". Outwardly, it looks like the Bulldog, but has a caliber of only .32. Photo by Alain Daubresse


The 7.65mm Iver Johnson revolver, in fact, is also not a Bulldog. Border Guards Museum in Imatra, Finland

The .44 Bulldog cartridge, by the way, was quite popular in the United States, although it was also less powerful than its American counterparts, which could also be fired from .442 Vebley revolvers. In 1973, the Charter Arms Company introduced its Bulldog revolver. This is a "snub-nosed" five-shot revolver for concealed carry or a "last chance" weapon. It was named after the original, but looks quite different from it.


Five-shot revolver "Bulldog" caliber .320. "Liège Firearms Manufacture". Photo by Alain Daubresse


Revolver produced by the Belgian company "Massen-Lallemand". Caliber .500 Vebley. Photo by Alain Daubresse


Some revolvers from this company had a folding trigger and a mother-of-pearl handle! Photo by Alain Daubresse

The Bulldog revolver went down in history as a weapon of political assassins. So, it was from him in the United States on July 2, 1881, at the Baltimore-Potomac railway station, President James A. Garfield was shot dead. His killer was the lawyer Charles J. Guito, who decided in this way to take revenge on Garfield for not giving him any position in his government, and he so wanted to be ... an ambassador.


"Attempted Assassination of President Garfield". Graphic illustration from Frank Lescher's newspaper. Library of American Congress, Washington

Interestingly, at first Gito wanted to buy a Bulldog revolver with an ivory handle, because he believed that this revolver would look better in this form when it was displayed in a museum, but still decided to save money. However, the store owner turned out to be a good seller and cut the price for him. As a result, Guito paid $ 10 for a revolver, a box of cartridges and another penknife, and the next day he went to the banks of the Potomac River in order to learn how to shoot from his revolver. As a result, he shot at Garfield and wounded him (he died only on September 19 as a result of purulent inflammation), and his revolver, as he assumed, was placed in the Smithsonian Institute museum, but after some time it disappeared. Only his photograph remains.


Revolver Gito. Smithsonian Institute photo

Lindsay's poem mentions Emil Varnan's Varnan firm, and this is no coincidence. She also produced "Bulldogs" (some were called "Pappy" - "puppy") Caliber .320. Short rifled barrel with a crescent-shaped front sight. The loading door, as on all Bulldogs, is on the right side. The trigger is folding. Drum for six rounds. Made in 1893, and the Varnan company was even very advanced in terms of mastering new military products. For example, Warnan's patent for a revolver with a right-swinging drum is known. And it was also "Bulldog"!


Drawing from Warnan's patent for a swing-out revolver 1883


One of the numerous models of Varnan revolvers with a folding trigger. Photo by Alain Daubresse


Six-shooter drum of the Varnan revolver. Photo by Alain Daubresse


Five-charge drum of the Varnan revolver. Photo by Alain Daubresse


Revolver Giovanni Zanardo (inventor from Belgium of Italian origin), five-shot, with a hidden hammer and a folding trigger. Photo by Alain Daubresse


And here is a drum from him. Photo by Alain Daubresse

It was from the "bedog", although it is not known what production, that she shot at the St. Petersburg mayor F.F. Trepova Vera Zasulich and wounded him in the stomach. Having received two bullets, Trepov, however, survived and died only 11 years after this incident, in which, by the way, he himself was to blame.


Advertising "Bulldogs" in Russia ...


Revolver "bulldog" made by Francisco Arismendi caliber .320 intended for export to Germany or Austria-Hungary. By the way, in Austria-Hungary, according to the law of 1852, it was allowed to import revolvers with a barrel length of at least 18 cm. However, this law concerned only customs formalities. It was not forbidden to have revolvers with short barrels inside the country! Photo by Alain Daubresse

As a result, the popularity of "bulldogs" became so high that in the same, for example, Germany, they were banned from import. They believed that the short barrel of this revolver makes it a "criminal" weapon. But then there were manufacturers who easily bypassed this ban. They began to produce and import into Germany long-barreled "bulldogs" with a front sight located in the middle of the barrel, and their own buyer could cut the barrel of his revolver to the desired length! And so that the sawn-off end did not go to waste, they began to make ... thread on it from the muzzle end! The second revolver was imported into the country without a barrel. The barrel was sawn in half along the front sight, and its other half was screwed into the second revolver!
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  1. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 24 January 2021 05: 55
    +9
    But there is no way a suitable epigraph can be found for an article about him.
    I will offer my option.
    "Moscow is an island,
    And we are on an island
    With a revolver in hand,
    And Lenin in the head! "(C)
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. kalibr
      24 January 2021 08: 11
      +9
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      "Moscow is an island,
      And we are on an island
      With a revolver in hand,
      And Lenin in the head! "

      It's great! Thank you!
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 24 January 2021 10: 59
        +3
        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Finally, the era of the familiar (for me, at least) revolvers began. The look that can be seen in the cinema, our museums.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 24 January 2021 22: 17
        +4
        But there is no way a suitable epigraph can be found for an article about him.
        You are an honest, simple revolver
        You got used to the soldier's mat.
        Can I compare you, my lion,
        With a capricious machine gun!
        Arseny Nesmelov.
      3. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 25 January 2021 11: 05
        +1
        Nice colorful article, I bow! good
        "Attempted Assassination of President Garfield". Graphic illustration from Frank Lescher's newspaper. Library of American Congress, Washington

        Judging by the pose of the unfortunate Garfield, he was hit right in the prison? belay
        1. kalibr
          25 January 2021 11: 38
          +1
          In the back, under the ribs, that's why it was not possible to pull out the bullet!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 25 January 2021 12: 13
            +1
            In the back, under the ribs, that's why it was not possible to pull out the bullet!

            And with that level of medicine .. Well, of course! request
            1. kalibr
              25 January 2021 12: 27
              +1
              So he also got an infection, which is why he died!
              And Gito was shot through the window of the cell and the bullet hit the wall, flattened and ... acquired the profile of Gito himself! This fun fact (or newspaper fiction) is played up in Finney's excellent science fiction novel Between Two Times.
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 24 January 2021 08: 50
      +8
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Moscow is an island

      Aha, aha! However, riots, revolutions and so on come from you. laughing * The city above the free Neva .... *? No? bully
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 24 January 2021 08: 54
        +6
        All claims are against Mayakovsky.
        Sobyanin is not from St. Petersburg
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 24 January 2021 09: 00
          +7
          You have your own. * Sobyanin *. With a mustache Damn, where do all these * Sobyanins * come from?!?! Where is this kennel ?????
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 24 January 2021 20: 28
          +2
          Anton, to shove Sobyanin in here? Then remember the "beekeeper in the cap" and his predecessors, otherwise they will be offended
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 24 January 2021 20: 41
            +2
            I didn't poke it on purpose. All questions to Sergey. I am just a mockery of my reflection in the mirror.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 25 January 2021 11: 11
              +2
              I am just a mockery of my reflection in the mirror.

              "Let him not lie!" stop (Berthier). Most of all you laughed at my photograph in my passport, comparing it to my own face! laughing drinks
  2. Crowe
    Crowe 24 January 2021 06: 21
    +17
    Thanks for the detailed presentation of an interesting topic!
    The Bulldog revolver went down in history as a weapon of political assassins.

    So convenient - very tiny, even in a pocket, even in a handbag, you can hide it, but fired like a cannon! The "Bulldog" and all its various modifications appeared largely thanks to the "Webley No. 2" revolver (an early version of the 1878 sample, the so-called "First Model", had simple drums with a smooth surface. And in 1883 it appeared the "second model" (Second Model), distinguished by a drum with notches, which allowed some weight savings, and a slightly elongated grip, which made it easier to hold a weapon designed for a powerful cartridge) and a model was created specifically for Her Majesty's army.

    Webley No. 2 British Bull Dog sample 1878
    Numerous variants of the British Bull Dog revolvers

    produced in 1878 - 1914 were intended primarily for sale (although some models were used by the police and the military) and were actively distributed both in England and in the colonies of the British Empire. Compact and convenient friend both for respectable citizens with police officers, and for terrorists and bandits.
  3. Avior
    Avior 24 January 2021 07: 30
    +13
    Maybe the English Bulldog was heavy, but we are looking at the ad - the Belgian cal380 six-shooter weighs only 103 spool - about 430 grams, it costs 6 rubles. Not exactly cheap, but the price is quite affordable even for many skilled workers with an average salary of 37 pe at the time. And as a weapon of self-defense it is quite suitable - a small price, low weight, which is very important for a weapon that you have to carry with you with a low probability of use, and over time it will just get bored.
    Of course, the pocket pistols that appeared later were even more convenient and lighter, the same Browning number of the first 1905, but they were usually of a small caliber with a weak stopping effect and were much more expensive.
    1. John22
      John22 24 January 2021 22: 37
      +2
      Browning pistol No. 1 mod. 1900, although it was created in 1896 Belgian patent 1898 Start of production in 1899 Caliber 7,65 mm.
      1. Avior
        Avior 24 January 2021 23: 03
        +4
        You're right, the 1905 pocket model cal6,35 that I wrote about was not called Browning number 1.
        Number 1 is not a pocket pistol.
  4. Revolver
    Revolver 24 January 2021 07: 35
    -3
    Suitable only for shooting at close range or to shoot yourself. Even at 20 meters, it is not easy to hit a growth target from such a target, and at 50 only if by accident.
    1. kalibr
      24 January 2021 08: 13
      +12
      Quote: Nagan
      and 50 only if by chance.

      So who was shooting 50 meters from it?
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 24 January 2021 10: 27
        +9
        Quote: kalibr
        So who was shooting 50 meters from it?

        I shot from the Nagan when the eyes were better, and hit, although not with each, but somewhere it is good if out of three two. True, not 50 meters, but yards - American specifics. Now I probably won't. Naturally, not self-cocking, the descent is so tight that you don't want to, but you pull it. It also happened from snubnosed (the local version of the bulldog) I don't remember Colt or S&W, caliber if I'm not mistaken .38, so it is problematic to get from it even 10 yards, although the descent is not much easier than the Nagan one.
      2. Blacksmith 55
        Blacksmith 55 24 January 2021 11: 14
        +5
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, you've probably already written countless articles about weapons. Interesting to read, thank you.
        But did you really hold all the weapons in your hands, examined, and perhaps even fired, if so, then I envy you.
        Probably few of the readers could hold such things in their hands, and probably not so many have seen them in the museum.
        I look forward to continuing, especially about the famous revolver.
        1. kalibr
          24 January 2021 13: 12
          +7
          Quote: Blacksmith 55
          you've probably already written countless articles about weapons.

          In total there are 1400 articles on VO. Half of them are about weapons. About the samples that I held in my hands, and it is written - "held". The articles have a photo where I keep them. But this is only 20% of what is written. I didn't hold 80% of the weapon, but I saw a lot of photos. More than what is laid out here. Shoot only from an 1895 Winchester model chambered for a 16-caliber hunting cartridge. And from a carbine of 22 caliber ... Well, and "small" TOZ, from which while I was studying at the teacher's university, I finished shooting to the point that I received a certificate of a bullet shooting instructor. That's all my poor experience. And so ... in various museums I had to hold a lot in my hands ... But not for long.
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 24 January 2021 19: 11
          +4
          The blacksmith, with his tongue, pulled out the question. What to do now, I don’t know
    2. stroybat ZABVO
      stroybat ZABVO 24 January 2021 08: 42
      +15
      B7 greetings from Argentina.
      This revolver has been in our pocket for 30 years.
      Saved three times from misfortunes.
      One day some friends gathered at my place, all Russians who once served ...
      Well, and asked to "shoot" ... Target 40 cm wide 70 cm high, a piece of board, in short.
      The distance to the "target" is 4 meters.
      Nobody got in by self-cocking.
      1. stroybat ZABVO
        stroybat ZABVO 24 January 2021 08: 57
        +8
        And I, nevertheless, at 25 m in the "standard target", all 5 hit, but the spread over the whole "circle", probably practice.
        There's a "secret" in the tilt of the handle. This revolver is "sharpened" to shoot "from the hip." When aiming, you need to bend the hand strongly.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 January 2021 09: 06
        +9
        Quote: stroybat ZABVO
        The distance to the "target" is 4 meters.
        Nobody got in by self-cocking.

        Duc self-cocking and from the PM from habit to get quite difficult. The majority is trite - they "pull", even when shooting with two hands.
        Therefore, in the wild 90s, operational units that carried a cartridge in the barrel in service were taught to cock the trigger with the thumb of their left hand or to shoot the first cartridge into the air - "warning". In other cases, self-cocking only at point-blank range.
        I had a chance to use a revolver, and "licked to nihochu". The force during self-cocking still remained large enough. About ordinary, in principle, I am silent - the effort when you pull the trigger when firing self-cocking is not like 2 kilograms with a tail.
      3. kalibr
        24 January 2021 13: 33
        +4
        Quote: stroybat ZABVO
        Saved three times from misfortunes.

        + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
      4. vladcub
        vladcub 24 January 2021 19: 14
        +3
        "Three times saved from misfortune" people want to know more
        1. kalibr
          24 January 2021 20: 56
          +3
          Quote: vladcub
          people want to know more

          Yes, it would be nice ... In my novel (XNUMXrd book "Three from Ensk" - "Emerald palms, golden sand") the hero lives in Colombia and a few times he is rescued by a homemade paper pistol with barrels reinforced with wire. I wonder how much life is different from fantasy or fantasy from life.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 24 January 2021 21: 42
            +3
            "A homemade pistol made of paper" actually took "arap". Now how to shoot.
            It reminded me: "Overpowered", when Chekhov's character, was afraid of the coachman, talked about :: "pockmarked bull": a policeman sits behind every bush, and I have a terrible pistol in my pocket. Remember?
            1. kalibr
              25 January 2021 11: 41
              +1
              I wrote to you, Vladislav - read the novel, everything is detailed and interesting. By the way, now you can also read it on the DREAM website from Singapore!
          2. stroybat ZABVO
            stroybat ZABVO 25 January 2021 18: 16
            0
            Greetings from Argentina.
            I was trying to tell my "experience" .. but, every time, I refused, because I think that my "experience" is more suitable for a "self-defense" site than for a military site.
            But so be it, I will briefly unsubscribe:
            1. I just arrived in Argentina then. He began to look after the young lady, Gabriel is now my wife, well, and returned home at 2-3 nights.
            Now imagine, night, railway crossing, and I am alone with an armed bandit .......
            I can't tell you more here.
            I returned home safe and sound, and with a purse and a weapon.
            2. On a rather busy street, three homeless-looking bandits, one with a knife, tried to rob me.
            The technique is roughly as follows: they show a knife and press the "victim" against the wall of the house, and the "victim" herself unconsciously presses herself against the wall out of fear, well, and whatever they hit from behind. From the side of passers-by, the knife is not visible, you can shout, but they immediately hit in the sternum with a knife.
            Knowing this "technique", when they showed me the knife, I did the opposite, that is, I stood with my back to the passers-by, and the bandits were in full view of everyone.
            Only they saw my revolver. They were noticeably sick, but their insolence did not allow them to be blown away, they had to "pull the trigger" and the bandits ran ...........
            3. I have already told this case on this site: mountains near Chile, a mountain waterfall, my daughter and I are many kilometers away, she was 9 years old then. An adult Puma is among the huge waves. Female. Cubs are not visible.
            I held my daughter by the hand, next to me, and in the other hand a revolver, so much so that the girl did not see the Puma or the weapon.
            I didn't have to shoot, but the revolver gave me confidence.
            1. kalibr
              25 January 2021 18: 57
              +2
              Great stories! Bravo! By the way, they are very similar to those described in my novels. Only without the cougar. By the way, now even in Argentina you can read them. All 4 (8 books) came out on Dream Singapore today!
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 24 January 2021 10: 14
      +5
      It's amazing where so many disadvantages come from, like people who are adequate have gathered ...
      1. kalibr
        24 January 2021 13: 33
        +5
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        like people are adequate gathered ...

        This one appearance happens ...
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 24 January 2021 13: 44
          +5
          Well, it seems that no one went broke that "Nagant" (at the moment, a US citizen) "sold for Coca-Cola" ...
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 24 January 2021 19: 19
        +6
        I suspect that someone is wearing only the "skin" of adequate.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 24 January 2021 19: 27
          +4
          Man, we are online, this is not who we really are.
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 24 January 2021 09: 43
    +6
    Bulldog ... bulldog ... And a clear explanation: where does the "bulldog" come from? Why "bulldog"? - so dumb! So ... some guesses! There is also such a version ... not without a doubt! Here, on the page, it was already mentioned about the "similarity" of the Trenter's revolver and the "bulldog" ... The Trenter's (Trencher's) revolver, model 1868, "consumed Boxer's cartridges ... that's why the advertisement of that time said about the Trenter's revolver chambered for the Boxer or" Trenter Boxer "! Well, when a" similar "Webley revolver appeared, then someone decided to distinguish between them as follows: there is a breed of dogs" Boxer "... why not appear," Bulldog "? Moreover, they say that they are similar ...

    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 24 January 2021 10: 00
      +5
      Here's another video "about the bulldog" ... either to have fun, or to ask ...
      1. kalibr
        24 January 2021 10: 11
        +8
        Now you are hiring where did the Beetle get himself pictures? I collected such advertising magazines, and they traditionally had graphics, reshoot on the same scale, painted on something and voila - the book is ready!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 24 January 2021 18: 12
          +5
          Vyacheslav, hello.
          You are wrong about the Beetle, he had an amazing eye and he worked like a machine. I didn't have a chance to talk to him, but our museum workers told a lot about him.
          Now about "reshoot on the same scale" ... But what about modern weapons? All his drawings are executed in the same style, incl. and the latest models at that time, and their graphic images were not in any catalog, only the Beetle himself. I myself loved to indulge in easel graphics and draw weapons, but I was always far from the Beetle. He loved the quality of his work, but there was no envy. Each has its own threshold.
          The article about "Bulldogs" is simply magnificent in terms of information content and saturation, but you are in vain about the Beetle. smile drinks
          1. kalibr
            24 January 2021 20: 11
            +4
            Quote: Sea Cat
            All his drawings are executed in the same style, incl. and the latest models at that time, and their graphic images were not in any catalog, only the Beetle himself.

            Well, looking at the previous drawings, you can draw new ones, why not? There would be something to adopt the style ... And no one says that he borrowed everything, but the fact that he looked at all this and copied it, and did not draw from full-scale samples is undoubtedly. He just physically could not have so much at his disposal. No other museum has so many! And in the catalogs - there is!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 24 January 2021 20: 25
              +6
              In our museum, he drew everything from life, and according to the rules, an employee of the department was constantly next to him and saw how the Beetle worked. The same Shokarev told me about this. It is clear that not all the weapons of the world were in our museums, they took a lot from Western catalogs, but the Museums of the Armed Forces, Revolution and Tula, he outlined almost everything and drew iron from nature, I know for sure.
              1. kalibr
                24 January 2021 20: 48
                +3
                Sources can be very different, there is no crime in this. To copy the style of old editions - what's wrong? Nothing! Did you draw everything from life? And why, if there are good graphic drawings in catalogs? What and to whom did he prove what? I do not think that such an approach in any way belittles his creativity. On the contrary, if a person skillfully used everything that came into his hands, then this can only be welcomed!
          2. John22
            John22 24 January 2021 22: 49
            +2
            Style of drawings by A.B. The beetle is a technical drawing, it is known from the drawing course. But the drawings are wonderful. And the fact that there were predecessors (Fedorov, Blagonravov, Ponomarev) is the succession of which, unfortunately, is rare for various reasons.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 24 January 2021 22: 58
              +4
              Not entirely true, this is more easel graphics than purely technical drawing, but very close, of course. Blagonravov and Fedorov, of course, did not draw themselves, illustrators worked with them.
              And you are right, it is a pity that this style has become forgotten in our time.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 24 January 2021 20: 33
        +7
        Hi Vladimir! hi
        To you, as a great lover and connoisseur of revolving systems, I want to send an image of one capsule "Vebley". This barrel is from the weapons department of the State Historical Museum and, as far as I know, has never been exhibited anywhere. Revolver of amazing beauty and design: blue blued, nickel-plated details, light walnut cheeks. I, at one time, compiled a catalog for myself and these are my drawings, "Vebley" from nature, painted somewhere in the early eighties. Hope you find it interesting. smile
        1. kalibr
          24 January 2021 20: 49
          +6
          Quote: Sea Cat
          and these are my drawings,

          Great drawings! 5+
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 January 2021 21: 29
            +4
            Vyacheslav, thanks for the appreciation, "Praise and the Cat are pleasant".))
            If necessary, use this "Vebley", the drawing has not been published anywhere, and I have not seen a photo of this particular model anywhere.
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 24 January 2021 21: 54
              +3
              Kostya, hello. You "rewound" many systems of revolvers and pistols. Question to the "expert": which of the grips is more convenient: like a nickel-plated Vebley or a "Guito's revolver" with a "beak" or like an "Ulster Bulldog"?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 24 January 2021 22: 52
                +3
                Hello, Glory.
                In my opinion, the grips of all the revolvers listed by you are completely inconvenient, all these weapons are "fired at once", the same "Nagant" is much more convenient for regular shooting, although I really liked the "Colt Python" and "Taurus" 38 special (a copy of Smith) , the handles are very comfortable for shooting and the centering is good.
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 25 January 2021 14: 45
                  +1
                  Must see
                2. Fat
                  Fat 25 January 2021 15: 18
                  +2
                  hi I have never held a real "bulldog" in my hands. But here plastic Hong Kong replicas came across ("signal", of course piston). In the late 80s he decided to repeat the replica of the "bulldog" with a "folding" drum, cast it into plaster of paris with embedded parts, and processed it. The drum was ordered - made of cheap steel. An excellent signaling device turned out.
                  Well, it turned out that it seemed very simple and not very interesting to draw just catalog drawings.
                  Well, a lot of it "chewed" - the son-in-law is a hunter, well, and "perepistonil". The floor of the faculty was in awe of the coach's starting revolver was ... laughing
                  Already at the beginning of 2000, Izhevsk comrades presented a "revolver" ... Well, of course, a signal yes
                  1919 frame, barrel made safe, drum replaced. Kirov, the Molot plant.
                  How much of this "metal" they have accumulated, that the "signal" to sculpt steel ... Nagant and TT did quite massively.
                  It's funny. And the first time I put the revolver under the pillow, like a child, my favorite toy. repeat
                  That's how it turned out laughing And now, if I find the reamers, I can glue any weapon out of office paper. To do something?
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 24 January 2021 23: 54
          +8
          To you, as a great lover and connoisseur of revolving systems, I want to send an image of one capsule "Vebley". This barrel is from the weapons department of the State Historical Museum and, as far as I know, has never been exhibited anywhere. Revolver of amazing beauty and design: blue blued, nickel-plated details, light walnut cheeks.

          Webley Model 1853 Longspur Percussion.
          By the way - Longspur is a bird, a Lapland plantain.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 25 January 2021 00: 57
            +4
            And I considered myself the only owner of the "portrait" of this revolver. Three times haha. request
            And the bird is good, right? smile
          2. Fat
            Fat 28 January 2021 00: 23
            +1
            Lapland plantain? Longspur is, literally, a long spur hi
            The gleam of spur on chestnut flank
            The cavalry did burst upon the ranks
            (The shine of the spur on the chestnut side -
            The cavalry wedged into the ranks)
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 28 January 2021 00: 55
              +2

              Calcarius lapponicus.
              1. Fat
                Fat 28 January 2021 01: 44
                0
                Longspur with a chestnut collar! It is necessary to look at the bird's feet for what they were so nicknamed. But as for Vebley in 1853, he was clearly not nicknamed by the bird - a characteristic view, with a "spur". Don’t you?
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 28 January 2021 07: 34
                  +1
                  Sense of humor is a psychological feature of a person, which consists in analyzing contradictions in the world around them and evaluating them from a comic point of view.
        3. Undecim
          Undecim 25 January 2021 00: 08
          +4
          But with the fifth position you, Konstantin, have a mistake. This is not a Walter machine gun.
          This is the Vollmer VMP1925 submachine gun (Vollmer Maschinenpistole).

          Although here, most likely, Fyodorov, respected by all, was mistaken.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 25 January 2021 00: 55
            +3
            Vic, good night. hi
            Honestly, now I don't even remember where I copied this p / p, from those available then, most likely, it was from Fedorov's book.
          2. kalibr
            25 January 2021 06: 45
            +5
            The journal SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY for 1929 also says .... Volmer.
        4. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 25 January 2021 09: 08
          +2
          Thank you, Kostya! The drawings are really good! In this I fully subscribe to the opinion of Vyacheslav Olegovich! I even envy a little white envy! Since I have collected material for some articles, but got stuck in the problem of resolving issues with copyright holders ... I decided to make my own graphic drawings with the help of graphic editors based on "colorful" illustrations ... I even downloaded the recommended program on the Internet, but not yet I can't start studying and applying it! hi
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 25 January 2021 14: 53
            +3
            Nikolaevich, go for it. Anyway, you have more buildings than Kharluzhny, and he tells us today about bayonets, and tomorrow about butts?
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 25 January 2021 16: 29
            +2
            Volodya, hello. ))
            It is a pity that the publication of articles is slowed down due to bureaucratic delays. Have you tried to talk to the computer guys so that someone would be engaged in the preparation of illustrations? Guys love weapons, throw a cry, maybe someone will respond from purely altruistic motives. smile
  6. Fat
    Fat 24 January 2021 09: 54
    +6
    hi Very good article. Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich. I read it with pleasure. Leisurely.
  7. CTABEP
    CTABEP 24 January 2021 10: 53
    +5
    Oh, my favorite revolvers in aesthetics. What the hell are Glocks when there is such beauty :). Thank you for the article!
    1. kalibr
      24 January 2021 15: 24
      +8
      "Glock" - this is a purely murder weapon, there is a penny aesthetics. And then there was romance. Engravers engraved, polishers polished ... Wooden cheeks ... chose wood. All of this is WILDness and remnants of a cave, not in the Glock, but somehow ... inspiring. Such are we, people who only yesterday became people!
  8. Undecim
    Undecim 24 January 2021 11: 32
    +8
    The larger the bullet, the stronger its impact. Even if she doesn't kill, she is guaranteed to knock down
    By itself, a revolving bullet cannot knock a person down. Otherwise, the shooter would also fall off his feet.
    1. alsoclean
      alsoclean 24 January 2021 16: 44
      +3
      Here, apparently, it was not meant to orient the carcass after being hit directly. A stopping effect: contusion, fractures, painful shock. Agree, knocks down.
    2. Fat
      Fat 25 January 2021 23: 06
      0
      Father, V.N. Well, of course. A hit of 45 may not kill, but it will definitely make it a non-combatant for a long time. Will land unequivocally. This is semi-serious recourse
      So what? is a 12 gauge double-barreled gun cooler? I have no doubt, especially with buckshot ...
      Hence the moral: every vegetable has its own time. Or, to put it more simply ... Never think that you are different than you could not be otherwise than being different in those cases when it is impossible not to be otherwise.
      (c) Well, I could not resist not remembering Carol ...
      Almost 15-30 lead from a distance of 1-3 meters. Many will be detained. Not?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 25 January 2021 23: 13
        +2
        Nearly 15-20 g of lead from a distance of 1-3 meters
        If you mean a 12 gauge smoothbore shotgun, then this is 31-36 g of shot in one cartridge.
        The question is about the legend that the shell knocks down. In fact, the body collapses, sustaining damage to vital organs.
        1. Fat
          Fat 25 January 2021 23: 32
          +1
          So yes! Doesn't discard! "Offensive impulse" deprives. Stops the attacker even in the armor, 9 buckshot of the 12th life almost always deprives. 1/12 of a pound (that's a lot, about 37 grams) and impulse ... Like a brick ... Maybe you can resist if you have taught and expect ...
  9. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 24 January 2021 18: 44
    +5
    Good evening everyone. Vyacheslav Olegovich, if you have a delay with the epigraph. I propose this option: you say what systems are there, and colleagues select epigraphs.
    There will be a triple benefit: 1) it is easier for you; 2) colleagues will be able to prepare questions if any; 3) colleagues will have no reason to "sew a policy"
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 24 January 2021 19: 34
      +4
      ... colleagues will have no reason to "sew a policy"


      Colleagues do not sew anything, it is hamsters who spoil the air with a "patriotic aroma", since a person lives in America, then he betrayed his homeland. The idiots.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 25 January 2021 08: 48
        +2
        Good morning. Yesterday the phone was dead and I didn't answer.
        I always believed that Penza is a city in the Russian Federation, and Vyacheslav Olegovich lives in Penza ..
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 25 January 2021 16: 15
          +1
          Vera, hello. love
          I did not mean Vyacheslav, but our colleague under the nickname Nagan, he just lives in America and it was for this that he was instructed on the disadvantages.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 25 January 2021 21: 10
            0
            Konstantin, and I meant Vyacheslav Olegovich. Remember, when he talked about the shooting club, there were complaints for the epigraph.
            1. Fat
              Fat 27 January 2021 17: 14
              +1
              Vera hi love Many Soviet people recklessly think they know about Mayakovsky. We read and memorized according to the school curriculum. But this was not included in the program:
              Here.
              Cigarette case in grass
              gone by a third.
              And like a cover
              glitters
              bent over to watch
              all kinds of ants and grass.
              Stunned marveled
              twisted monogram,
              marveled at the shining silver
              polished,
              not worth with their seas and mountains
              before the human cause
              nothing exactly.
              It was a wonder
              their eyes were blinded,
              who have not seen anything of this kind.
              And the cigarette case glittered
              into the environment with contempt:
              - Eh, you, they say,
              NATURE.
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 28 January 2021 08: 43
                0
                Indeed, these lines are not Mayakovsky. Early poetry, probably?
                1. The comment was deleted.
    2. kalibr
      24 January 2021 20: 15
      +5
      Quote: Astra wild2
      There will be a triple benefit: 1) it is easier for you; 2) colleagues will be able to prepare questions if any; 3) colleagues will have no reason to "sew a policy"

      Benefit is not always decent in nature. It is one thing when Anton, out of the kindness of his soul, reminded me of this passage from Mayakovsky, and it is quite another thing to ask people to look for you texts. This is their time, and time is money!
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 24 January 2021 22: 46
        +3
        Alexey Ponomarev
        REVOLVER
        Read it. Maybe it will do.
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 25 January 2021 09: 05
        +4
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, yesterday the phone sat down, the more you write, the more I will read. So I take care of myself.
        R.
        S
        Е
        I can look for epigraphs for you. Of course, I do not guarantee verses about specific models of weapons, but besides weapons, there are other topics
        1. kalibr
          25 January 2021 10: 51
          +1
          Thank you! But you have no idea what it means to work with me. I am a very capricious person in relation to everything that is connected with work. And yet - I don't really want to be obliged to anyone. There are exceptions, yes, but rarely ...
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 25 January 2021 11: 36
            +4
            I believed that whims were our prerogative
        2. Fat
          Fat 27 January 2021 18: 26
          +1
          Vera, you are still a Fury. But how are you, at times, terribly accurate love crying
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 28 January 2021 08: 29
            0
            "that still Fury" how to regard it: as flattery or ...?
            It seems that scandals did not suit
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 29 January 2021 00: 31
            0
            No no. I can't resist a modern quote:

            “The truth should be told to everyone, except for the Germans and older classmates” (c).
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 29 January 2021 09: 21
              0
              Corsair, in fact, women don't like being told about their age.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 29 January 2021 10: 38
                0
                Exactly. This is what the film emphasizes.
  10. John22
    John22 24 January 2021 23: 50
    +4
    It is generally accepted that the "Bulldog" is the revolver that has a number of things in common with the famous Webley No. 2 design features. These include the barrel, frame and handle made in one piece.
    This can be seen if you look closely at the photographs. The Bulldog should have a short barrel of the order of 2.5 inches and, at the same time, a very large .450 caliber for a weapon of this class, which in terms of millimeters means a caliber of about 11,43 mm. In addition, the "Bulldogs" have an open double-impact trigger, a short "parrot beak" handle and a drum door on the right.
  11. Outsider V.
    Outsider V. 25 January 2021 15: 28
    +1
    The article is wonderful, and the poetry as an epigraph is excellent, only the author of the epigraph is not Gordon Lindsay, Adam Lindsay Gordon... Those. his surname GordonAnd not Lindsay... As Wikipedia writes about him, he is an Australian poet, jockey, policeman and politician.
  12. Dimide
    Dimide 27 January 2021 20: 31
    0
    I love to go to this thread, read informative, professional articles and no less informative comments.
    Thanks for the photo to everyone. All the same, the old weapon has its own weapon aesthetics.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, as always I take off my hat!