Military Review

The concept of unmanned aircraft early warning radar

74

Source: Aeronautica Militare


1. The main stages of AWACS development


The main problem arising in the design of AWACS is that (in order to obtain large target detection ranges) the radar must necessarily have a large antenna area, and, as a rule, there is nowhere to place it on board. The first successful AWACS was developed more than 60 years ago and has not left the scene to this day. It was created on the basis of the deck transporter and was named E2 Hawkeye.

Mushroom


The main idea of ​​all AWACS at that time was to place a rotating antenna in a "mushroom" located above the fuselage.

The radar determines the coordinates of the target by measuring the target's range and two angles: horizontally and vertically (azimuth and elevation). It is quite easy to obtain high accuracy of range measurement - it is enough to accurately determine the return time of the echo signal reflected from the target. The contribution from the angle measurement error is usually much larger than the range error. The amount of angular error is determined by the radar beam width and is typically about 0,1 beam width. For flat antennas, the width can be determined by the formula α = λ / D (1), where:
α is the beam width, expressed in radians;
λ is the radar wavelength;
D is the antenna length along the corresponding coordinate (horizontally or vertically).

At the selected wavelength, in order to narrow the beam as much as possible, the antenna size has to be maximized based on the capabilities of the aircraft. But an increase in the size of the antenna leads to an increase in the midsection of the "mushroom" and worsens aerodynamics.

Disadvantages of pancake


The Hokai developers decided to abandon the use of flat antennas and switched to a “wave channel” type television antenna. Such an antenna consists of a longitudinal bar, across which a number of vibrator tubes are installed. As a result, the antenna is located only in the horizontal plane. And the “mushroom” cap turns rather into a horizontal “pancake”, which almost does not spoil the aerodynamics. The direction of radiation of radio waves remains horizontal and coincides with the direction of the boom. The diameter of the "pancake" is 5 m.

Of course, such an antenna also has serious disadvantages. With a selected wavelength of 70 cm, the azimuth beam width is still acceptable - 7 °. And the elevation angle is 21 °, which does not allow measuring the height of targets. If, when aiming fighter-bombers (IS), ignorance of altitude is insignificant, thanks to the ability of the on-board radar (radar) to measure the height of the target itself, then such data is not enough for launching missiles. It is not possible to narrow the beam by decreasing the wavelength, since the “wave channel” works worse at short waves.

The advantage of the 70 cm range is that it significantly increases the visibility of stealth aircraft. The detection range of a conventional IS is estimated at 250-300 km. The small mass of Hokai and its cheapness have led to the fact that its production has not been discontinued.

AWACS


The requirement to increase the detection range and improve the tracking accuracy led to the development of a new AWACS AWACS based on the passenger Boeing-707. A flat vertical antenna measuring 7,5x1,5 m was placed in the "mushroom" and the wavelength was reduced to 10 cm. As a result, the beam width decreased to 1 ° * 5 °. Radar accuracy and noise immunity have increased dramatically. The IS detection range has increased to 350 km.

Analogue of AWACS in the USSR


In the USSR, the first AWACS was developed on the basis of the Tu-126. But the characteristics of its radar were mediocre. Then they began to develop an analogue of AWACS. No heavy passenger carrier was found. And they decided to use the Il-76 transport aircraft, which was not very suitable for AWACS.

Excessive fuselage width, large mass (190 t) and uneconomical engines caused excessive fuel consumption. Twice as much as AWACS. The stabilizer, raised to the top of the keel and located behind the "mushroom", when the antenna turned to the tail sector, caused the radar beam to be reflected to the ground. And the interference caused by back reflections from the ground greatly interfered with the detection of targets in the tail sector.

No radar upgrades can eliminate the disadvantages of this carrier. Even replacing engines with more economical ones did not bring fuel consumption to the level of AWACS. Detection range and accuracy were almost as good as AWACS. But AWACS will also be removed from service in the coming years. The difference in media also affects the operators. The Il-76 is not a passenger aircraft, the level of comfort in it is low. And the fatigue of the crew by the end of the shift is significantly higher than in the Boeing-707.

Era AFAR


The advent of radar with active phased array antennas (AFAR) has significantly improved radar performance. AWACS appeared without the "mushroom". For example, FALKON based on Boeing-767. But here, too, the use of the finished media did not lead to good results. The presence of a wing in the middle of the fuselage led to the fact that the lateral AFAR had to be split in half. AFAR, installed in front of the wing, radiated forward and sideways. And AFAR behind the wing - back-sideways. But it was not possible to get one AFAR of a large area.

Our A-100 was left with a "mushroom". Instead of a rotating antenna, an AFAR was installed inside the "mushroom". The media had to be replaced, but that didn't happen. The detection range has been increased (reportedly) to 600 km. But the flaws of the carrier did not disappear. The A-50 park is in a deplorable state. Of the remaining planes, 9 fly (and even then rarely). Apparently, there is not enough money for regular flights. The lack of regular AWACS flights leads to the fact that the enemy is confident that his low-altitude Tomahawk-type missile launchers will easily pass our border unnoticed.

Unlike the United States, there are no balloon radars in the Russian Federation to guard maritime borders. And the hills on the coast, where it would be possible to install a surveillance radar, are also not everywhere. On land, the situation is even worse. Tomahawks, using the folds of the terrain, can pass the radar station at a distance of only a few kilometers. It is believed that cruise missiles (CR) fly over land at an altitude of 50 m. However, modern digital maps of the area have become so detailed that they can even display individual tall objects. Then the altitude flight profile can be plotted at noticeably lower altitudes. Above the sea, KRs fly at heights of about 5 m. Consequently, the statement of the Ministry of Defense on the creation of a continuous radar field in the RF does not apply to KR.

An innovative idea


The conclusion suggests itself - it is necessary to develop a specialized carrier that allows you to place a large area AFAR, the concept of which the author proposes.

In his opinion, the mass of such an AWACS will be significantly less than the AWACS mass. And the detection range ꟷ is much greater. The cost per hour of operation will be moderate. This makes it possible to conduct regular flights (but, of course, not on schedule). It is important that the enemy does not know when, where and along what trajectory the flight will take place.

2. Substantiation of the concept of a promising UAV AWACS


The previous dominant concept in the world “AWACS aircraft - air command post” is hopelessly outdated. AWACS is capable of dumping all information on a high-speed line to a ground command post at a distance of 400-500 km. If necessary, you can use a UAV repeater, which will increase the communication range up to 1300 km. The presence of a large crew on board the former AWACS makes it necessary to allocate IS on duty for their protection. Therefore, the cost of an hour of their operation becomes prohibitive.

Further, only UAV AWACS is considered. We will also give up the requirement to ensure the same detection range in all directions. In most cases, AWACS patrols in a safe zone and monitors what is happening in the enemy's zone or in a given area of ​​its own territory. Therefore, we will require that the AWACS must have at least one sector with a width of 120 °, where an increased detection range is provided. And in the remaining sectors, only self-defense is provided.

The only place on the plane where a large APAR can be placed is the side of the fuselage. But in the middle of the fuselage there is usually a wing. Even with the use of the upper plane (as on the IL-76), the wing will not allow viewing the upper hemisphere. The way out of the situation will be to raise the AWACS track to such a height that for it almost all targets will be below. And nothing prevents their detection.

The detection of high-altitude targets will be somewhat easier if you use a V-shaped wing. Without loss of wing quality, the climb angle can be up to 4 °. Then the maximum target detection angle at which the radar beam is not yet reflected from the wing is 2ꟷ3 °. Suppose the AWACS is located at an altitude of 16 km. Then, if the target flies at the maximum altitude for IS of 20 km, then it will be in the AWACS detection zone until it reaches a distance of less than 80 km. If it is required to accompany this target at closer distances, then the AWACS can tilt the roll by another 5 ° and continue tracking to a range of 30 km.

To reduce the weight of the AFAR, it must be performed using the technology of radiant sheathing, in which the radiating slits are cut into the sheathing and sealed with fiberglass. The transceiver modules (TPM) of the AFAR are attached to the skin, and the excess heat from the TPM is dumped directly onto the skin. As a result, the mass of APAR significantly decreases.

3. The design and tasks of the UAV


It should be recalled that the author is not a specialist in aircraft construction. Shown in Fig. 1, the layout (as well as dimensions) reflects rather the requirements for the placement of radar antennas. This is not a drawing of a real UAV.

The concept of unmanned aircraft early warning radar
Figure 1.

It is assumed that the take-off weight of the UAV will be 40 tons. The wingspan is 35ꟷ40 m. The flight altitude is 16ꟷ18 km. At a speed of about 600 km / h. The engine must be economical. Modeled on the Global Hawk design, the engine of a passenger plane should be taken. For example, PD-14. And modify it for high-altitude flight. Fuel mass 22 tons. Flight time not less than 20 hours. Takeoff / run length 1000 m.

The high wing position will not allow the use of a conventional three-pillar landing gear. We'll have to use a bike chassis like the U-2. Of course, striking the runway with the wing at the end of the run, as on the U-2, will not work here. And it is difficult to use the support wheels extended to the side. Due to the fact that the side surface was occupied by the AFAR.

It is proposed to make the last 7 m of the wing folding, like on ship aircraft. But they should not rise, but descend downward at an angle of 40ꟷ45 °. So as not to touch the runway. Support wheels are installed on the wingtips. Which, with sudden gusts of wind, run into the runway. The long wing length will provide a low load on the wheel. At the end of the run, the UAV rests on one of them.

Next, we will consider the possibilities of placing a side AFAR. The best radar performance is obtained when the antenna has the largest possible area and the antenna shape is close to a circle or square. Unfortunately, on a real UAV, the shape will always differ significantly from the optimal one - the height is much less than the length.

The choice of the shape and size of the fuselage can only be performed by experienced aircraft engineers. Well, for now, let's consider two theoretically possible versions of the APAR shape, having the same area. The first option (16x2,4 m) will be considered the most realistic. And the second (10,5x3,7 m) - requiring additional study.

Consider the first option, in which the fuselage length is 22 m. The design feature is the presence of an elongated air intake passing under the wing. This made it possible to increase the height of the side surface of the fuselage. AFAR is shown by dash-dot line.

AFAR operate in the wavelength range 20 - 22 cm, which will allow using one AFAR to solve the problems of radar, state identification and anti-jamming communication with the command post. Another advantage of this range (in comparison with the range of 10 cm for the A-50) is that the image intensifier of stealth targets, starting from wavelengths of 15ꟷ20 cm, increases with increasing wavelength.

In the nose (under the fairing) there is an elliptical AFAR measuring 1,65 × 2 m.Due to the fact that the nose antenna does not provide the required azimuth measurement accuracy, two additional purely receiving AFARs are located in the leading edges of the wing. The distance from the fuselage to the wing antenna is 1,2 m. The wing AFAR is a line of 96 receiving modules with a total length of 10,6 m.

Working range of angles nasal AFAR ± 30 ° * ± 45 °. The use of wing-mounted APARs will slightly increase the detection range (by 15%). But the measurement error of the azimuth will decrease radically (by 5–6 times).

The tail section contains only the communication line antenna. Therefore, in the field of view of the rear hemisphere there is a “dead” zone with a width of ± 30 °.

To save the weight of the aircraft, the communications complex uses the same AFAR as the main channel. With their help, high-speed (up to 300 Mbit / s) and noise-immune transmission of information to a ground or ship communication point is provided. To receive information at communication points, transceivers of the 20ꟷ22 cm range are installed. There are no special requirements for the antennas of these transceivers. The enemy cannot create interference of such power, which could suppress the signal of the AWACS radar. And it is possible to transfer information from a communication point to AWACS at low speeds.

3.1. Radar design


The lateral AFAR should be located 25 cm below the lower edge of the wing. Then it can scan the lower hemisphere in the entire azimuth range of ± 60 ° available to it. In the upper hemisphere, at elevation angles of more than 2 - 3 °, the wing begins to interfere. Therefore, AFAR is divided into two halves. The front is located under the wing and cannot scan upward. The trailing half can scan upward in an azimuth range of ± 20 °, where its beam does not touch the wing or stabilizer. The elevation scan of this half will be from + 30 ° to -50 °.

Lateral AFAR contains 2880 PPM (144 * 20). Pulse power PPM 40W. The power consumption of this AFAR is 80 kW. The beam width is 0,8 ° * 5,2 °, which is even slightly narrower than that of AWACS. Therefore, the accuracy of target tracking will be higher than AWACS. Especially big gains are expected in target detection and tracking range. First, the AWACS antenna area is 10 square meters. m. And the AFAR area is 38 sq. m. Secondly, the AWACS antenna evenly scans the entire 360 ​​°. And the lateral AFAR only its 120 ° and even then unevenly: in those directions where there is a suspicion of the presence of a target, more energy is sent, and the uncertainty is eliminated (that is, the detection range in these directions increases).

The nasal antenna contains 184 PPMs of 80 W pulsed power and liquid-cooled. Beam width 7,5 * 6 °, scanning angles ± 60 ° in azimuth and ± 45 ° in elevation.

Maximum power consumption of the radar is 180 kW. The total weight of the radar is 2–2,5 tons. The prime cost of a serial model of the radar will apparently amount to 12–15 million dollars.

4. Tasks and functioning of AWACS


When used in a maritime theater, a UAV must provide information support for the KUG at a distance of up to 2ꟷ2,5 thousand km from the home airfield. Even at such distances, it is able to be on duty for at least 12 hours. In the area of ​​duty, the UAV must be protected by the KUG air defense system, that is, it must be removed to a distance of no more than 150-200 km. If there is a danger of an attack, the UAV must return under the protection of the KUG at a distance of no more than 50 km. In this situation, the UAV radar and the KUG radar must distribute between themselves the detection zones of attacking air targets. In the lower hemisphere, it detects a UAV, and higher targets - an air defense system radar.

Let's take into account that with a flight altitude of 16 km, the radius of detection of enemy ships will be 520 km. That is, the achieved range of the control center will ensure the launch of the Onyx anti-ship missile system at the full flight range.

When escorting aircraft carriers and UDC that do not have deck AWACS, the UAV can participate in the actions of the air wing. In addition to the traditional detection of air and sea targets, the UAV is capable, using the extremely high energy potential of the lateral AFAR, to detect enemy radio contrast targets, as well as the trajectories of large-caliber cannon shells. In addition, the UAV can detect moving armored vehicles.

5. Tactical and technical characteristics of the radar


Lateral AFAR characteristics
Detection range in the direction of the axis of the side antenna:
- fighter type F-16 with image intensifier 2 sq. m at an altitude of 10 km - 900 km;
- RCC with an image intensifier of 0,1 sq. m - 360 km;
- guided missile type AMRAAM with an effective reflective surface (EOC) 0,03 sq. m - 250 km;
- artillery shell of 76 mm caliber with an image intensifier of 0,001 sq. m - EOP 90 km;
- a missile boat with an image intensifier of 50 sq. m - 400 km;
- destroyer with image intensifier 1000 sq. m - 500 km;
- a tank moving at a speed of 3 m / s and an image intensifier of 5 sq. m - 250 km.

At the boundaries of the azimuth scan zone equal to ± 60 °, the detection range decreases by 20%.

The error of a single measurement of angles is given for a range equal to 80% of the detection range of the corresponding target:
- in azimuth - 0,1 °,
- in elevation - 0,7 °.

During target tracking, the angular error decreases by 2–3 times (depending on the target's maneuvers). When the target range is reduced to 50% of the detection range, the error of a single measurement is halved.

The disadvantage of AFAR measuring 16x2,4 m is precisely the low accuracy of measuring the elevation angle. For example, the error in measuring the altitude of the F-16 IS, followed at a distance of 600 km, will be 2 km.

If it were possible to implement the second version of the lateral AFAR measuring 10,5x3,7 m, then the IS detection range would increase to 1000 km, and the altitude measurement error at a distance of 600 km would decrease to 1,3 km. The fuselage length would be reduced to 17 m.

Characteristics of nasal AFAR
Detection range in the direction of the nasal antenna axis:
- fighter with image intensifier 2 sq. m - 370 km;
- RCC with an image intensifier of 0,1 sq. m - 160 km;
- a guided missile of the AMRAAM type with an image intensifier of 0,03 sq. m - 110 km;
- missile boat with an image intensifier tube 50 sq.m - 300 km;
- destroyer with image intensifier 1000 sq. m - 430 km;
- a tank moving at a speed of 3 m / s and an image intensifier of 5 sq. m - 250 km.

Single angle measurement error:
- azimuth: 0,1 °;
- elevation angle: 0,8 °.
In the process of target tracking, the measurement error decreases by 2–3 times.

The cost of lateral AFAR depends on the batch size. We will focus on the price of $ 5 million. Then the total cost of the radar station will be $ 14 million. That is much cheaper than analogues available on the world market.

6. The tactics of using AWACS on a land theater


The tasks of the combined-arms AWACS on land are to illuminate the air situation to a great depth over the territory of neighboring states and to record the movements of large formations of troops in the border zone up to 300 km deep. In special circumstances, purely local problems can also be posed. For example, escorting a dangerous terrorist's car. In order for the watch to continue continuously during the entire threatened period, it is important to be able to minimize the cost of an hour of watch.

The UAV must patrol along the borders at distances that ensure its safety. If the enemy has a long-range air defense system or IS airfields in the border zone, this distance should be at least 150 km.

To prevent the possibility of defeat in wartime, it is necessary to ensure the protection of the UAV with its own air defense means. The cheapest way is to use a pair of air defense missile systems, which are capable of covering a loitering zone 150-200 km long. In the absence of its own air defense systems, the distance from the border can be increased to 200 km. This, while ensuring a long detection range of attacking missiles (and enemy fighters), will make it possible to carry out a retreat maneuver deep into its own territory with the rise of IS officers on duty from the nearest airfield.

In peacetime, you will not need to use such protection. And the UAV can cruise directly along the border. At the same time, it can detect moving vehicles on its own, but without recognizing their type. In this regard, the best efficiency is achieved by combining the recognition of specified targets by means of optical reconnaissance operating on the enemy's territory (or from a satellite), and tracking the detected targets using a UAV.

For example, if a scout detects a terrorist vehicle, the AWACS operator will be able to put it on automatic tracking and track the movement of this vehicle even on roads in the vicinity of other vehicles, as well as call an attack UAV to destroy them.

7. findings


The Il-76 aircraft, which is the carrier of the new A-100 AWACS complex, has not fundamentally changed. And it will not be possible to radically reduce the cost of an hour of its operation. Therefore, you cannot count on its regular use. Despite the improved characteristics of the radar.

The proposed AWACS UAV provides a detection range 1,5 times greater than the A-100. Weighs four times less. And it consumes five times less fuel.

The long detection range allows you to control the enemy's airspace from safe distances (200 km) and not use security information security.

The increased flight altitude makes it possible to detect ground and surface targets at distances up to 500 km.

The long duration of the flight makes it possible to use UAVs to escort KUGs, support amphibious operations and AUG actions at a distance of up to 2500 km from the airfield.

Integration of radar, state identification and communication functions in one AFAR made it possible to further reduce the weight and cost of the equipment.

Moderate cost of the devices will ensure the high competitiveness of the UAV.

Unfortunately, such proposals in the Ministry of Defense have not yet aroused interest and are still perceived as fantasy.

In the next article, we will consider the shipborne AWACS UAV.
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  1. Toucan
    Toucan 5 December 2020 06: 26
    +4
    Unfortunately, such proposals in the Ministry of Defense have not yet aroused interest and are still perceived as fantasy.

    And they are fantasy. All radar information is processed by the onboard radar operators on board the AWACS aircraft. For transmission of "raw" information to the ground control point, a very "thick" communication channel will be required, which will also be vulnerable to interference.
    1. KCA
      KCA 5 December 2020 07: 47
      -2
      A thick communication channel is from the 80-90s, I remember the expression "thick Ethernet", the cable is more than 50 cores, the speed was not enough even to play DOOM, now civil wifi will provide communication with at least a hundred AWACS aircraft, including encryption and redundant, even in 1000 times, data transmission to avoid packet loss
      1. Toucan
        Toucan 5 December 2020 07: 55
        +5
        It seems to me that you do not quite understand what you are trying to judge. Even NATO's Link 16 standard does not provide the required bandwidth. No.
        1. KCA
          KCA 5 December 2020 08: 22
          +2
          Doesn't provide a data transmission channel, or an algorithm for fetching and transmitting information? The F-22 is flying i80386DX 40MHz, what kind of data stream can it handle? Yes, it will be flooded by 1Mbit, if you transfer any crap. I judge what little or little I understand, although far from at the level of a data transmission specialist, a thousand simultaneously tracked objects are pitiful kilobits per second, the target, its coordinates, direction and speed of movement, you do not need to transfer a 3D picture in 4K , unless a pilot in a fashionable helmet see a picture
          1. Dodikson
            Dodikson 5 December 2020 18: 32
            +1
            shitty you understand if you carry such game.
            what the fuck wifi as a communication channel with AWACS.
            here even wai max and LTE cannot be pulled out in terms of range, but about wi-fi it is generally necessary to be silent. the usual waffle is the one that with the aypishnik 192.168.0.0 will not pull out a network where the number of nodes is in tens of thousands (because even SAM or UR VV and even UR VZ or OTR are also members of this network).
          2. ironic
            ironic 24 January 2021 21: 38
            +2
            Actually, two computers with 66 modules i80960. And the clock frequency is up to 100 there. ;)
            And Link16 is a kind of TDMA.
            1. KCA
              KCA 25 January 2021 05: 57
              0
              Exactly, I found that there really are RISC for embedded systems, the Americans introduced it into fornication when I looked at the F-22, got on their forum, where one swore that the 5th generation fighter was controlled with such old stuff, but, in principle, the i960 is not much younger than 486DX
              1. ironic
                ironic 25 January 2021 12: 52
                +2
                Such modules are not easy and very expensive to replace. Therefore, it is not worth expecting that after many years of design and debugging the last processors that hit the shelves yesterday will be on board. The F-35 also has a 2003-4 development - three dual-processor PowerPC modules from Freescale.
      2. Avior
        Avior 5 December 2020 21: 52
        +3
        And what is the range of civil wi-fi?
        And you know what noise immunity? Once at an exhibition I was jumping after a small quadcopter with wi-fi control - when the connection disappears, it hangs in place, and I was afraid that someone would fall on the head from three meters.
      3. Momotomba
        Momotomba 6 December 2020 21: 59
        +1
        You can easily encrypt the channel, here I agree with you. But the waffle will definitely not pull out neither the volume, nor, even more so, the range ... But this is a solvable problem wink With a signal delay of 1-3 seconds, information can be processed on the ground.
    2. t-12
      t-12 5 December 2020 16: 26
      -2
      Raw information is mostly random noise. They can be cut off with a simple filter. And transmit more or less essential information (there will be little of it, about ten kilobits per second).
      1. Avior
        Avior 5 December 2020 21: 58
        +3
        An easy filter - this is the signal quality you get
    3. Civil
      Civil 5 December 2020 18: 22
      +1
      Unfortunately, such proposals in the Ministry of Defense have not yet aroused interest and are still perceived as fantasy.

      They seem to think in thousands of tanks. And these are your AWACS UAVs for them toys from the grandson's campukter. Or great-grandson.
    4. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 6 December 2020 14: 46
      0
      Quote: Tucan
      To transmit "raw" information to the ground command post, a very "thick" communication channel is required


      Why transfer "raw" information (and what is it)? After several stages of processing, the information in the receiver will remain at tens (hardly even hundreds) of kilobytes per second.
    5. Airdefense
      Airdefense 8 December 2020 13: 53
      0
      UAVs a hundred kilometers away transmit video and telemetry, well, it is clear that compression is used there, but UAVs are not particularly large devices, and organizing a thick channel on a full-fledged liner is now not a problem at all. Although this, of course, I'm talking about the bourgeoisie, the Russian element base is far behind.
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 5 December 2020 07: 35
    +7
    Somehow the idea of ​​installing a radar on an airship was hovering. Quite worthy. Infa by cable can go directly to the operator's room by cable. Plus, it can look beyond the horizon. Well, the operating price is lower.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 5 December 2020 07: 38
      +4
      You probably mean tethered balloons? Such radar control devices are used in the United States and Israel. But in terms of their capabilities, they are much inferior to AWACS aircraft, although balloons, of course, are much cheaper.
      1. Reviews
        Reviews 5 December 2020 08: 39
        +6
        Quote: Tucan
        in terms of their capabilities, they are much inferior to AWACS aircraft

        Excel. The only drawback is that there is no mobility, but they do not even need it, they cover relatively inactive ground forces, or even stationary objects.
        The balloons are in the air 24/7 for an unlimited time, only the gas leak must be replenished every few weeks, this is a matter of several hours, and then every few months.
        1. Toucan
          Toucan 5 December 2020 09: 10
          +2
          In terms of detection range, they are much inferior.
          1. Reviews
            Reviews 5 December 2020 09: 17
            0
            Quote: Tucan
            In terms of detection range, they are much inferior.

            How strong is this? JLENS detects air targets, including low-flying missile launchers, at a range of 500 km. Ground vehicle size - 200 km.
            However, the program is slowed down for budgetary reasons.
            1. Toucan
              Toucan 5 December 2020 11: 07
              +3
              I am sure you know the maximum detection range by AWACS aircraft. With an equal radiated power due to the higher flight altitude, the airplane will have it about 20% higher than that of a balloon radar. The operating costs and cost of the balloon radar are certainly less. But existing radars of this type, due to the need to use sophisticated ground equipment, are actually stationary, and the balloon is highly dependent on weather conditions.
              1. Reviews
                Reviews 5 December 2020 11: 28
                +2
                Quote: Tucan
                I am sure you know the maximum detection range by AWACS aircraft.

                The same 500-600 km.
                sophisticated ground equipment

                ... an order of magnitude easier than any AWACS aircraft and its ground infrastructure.

                de facto stationary

                This is not a disadvantage for their tasks. I already wrote that this is to cover low-mobility and stationary objects. They have different niches. To use an airplane to patrol the zone of some infantry division is to "heat the stove with banknotes". It is possible, if there is no other way out, but it is irrational.
                the balloon is highly dependent on weather conditions.

                Not so much. The balloon hangs at a height of 3-4 km, where the winds are stable, and the cable has low windage and high inertia. And at the ground and the plane is not very powerful: lateral side is not higher than 17-20 m / s, counter is not higher than 30 ... 50 m / s, wind shears, thunderstorms in the area of ​​the highway, adhesion coefficients on the runway, etc. ...
                1. Bongo
                  Bongo 5 December 2020 15: 23
                  +6
                  The toucan is right in many ways.
                  Quote: Avis
                  The same 500-600 km.

                  Serial Lockheed Martin 420K with AN / TPS-63 radar detection range up to 300 km. We're talking about serial devices, aren't we?
                  Quote: Avis
                  an order of magnitude easier than any AWACS aircraft and its ground infrastructure.

                  But the possibilities are incomparable ... No. However, the ground infrastructure of balloons is also quite cumbersome. The launch requires a circular platform with a mooring attachment and an electric winch with a total cable length of 7600 meters.
                  Quote: Avis
                  This is not a disadvantage for their tasks. I already wrote that this is to cover low-mobility and stationary objects. They have different niches. Use an aircraft to patrol the area of ​​an infantry division

                  I assure you, balloons are not used in military air defense either. No.
                  Quote: Avis
                  Not so much. The balloon hangs at a height of 3-4 km, where the winds are stable, and the cable has low windage and high inertia.

                  In my opinion you are exaggerating a little. In Florida and Puerto Rico, 11 of the 4 TARS balloons were lost due to bad weather conditions.
                  Quote: Avis
                  And near the ground and the plane is not very powerful

                  What prevents an aircraft from going to another airfield in bad weather conditions? The balloon does not have such an opportunity. One way or another, the US military has so far refused to fund the balloon radar program. At the moment, all American balloons are operated by the Customs Service.
                  1. Reviews
                    Reviews 5 December 2020 15: 35
                    0
                    Quote: Bongo
                    The toucan is right in many ways.
                    Quote: Avis
                    The same 500-600 km.

                    Serial Lockheed Martin 420K with AN / TPS-63 radar detection range up to 300 km. We're talking about serial devices, aren't we?

                    This is also enough against conventional information security.
                    But the possibilities are incomparable ...

                    And more is not required.
                    the ground infrastructure of balloons is also quite cumbersome. The launch requires a circular platform with a mooring facility and an electric winch with a total cable length of 7600 meters.

                    Can you list how much is needed to operate a more or less decent aircraft, or do you know yourself? :) Start with the dimensions of the runway. "Round platform" ...
                    I assure you, balloons are not used in military air defense either. No.

                    Yes, the program is slowed down, I got better. This is temporary.
                    In my opinion you are exaggerating a little. In Florida and Puerto Rico, 11 of the 4 TARS balloons were lost due to bad weather conditions.

                    Let me guess ... :) Because of the hurricanes.
                    What prevents an aircraft from going to another airfield in bad weather conditions?

                    Nothing. I mean that all aircraft classes have limitations. And in combat conditions "another airfield" may no longer exist.

                    The balloon does not have such an opportunity.

                    And he doesn't need it. The mast will not overturn, and the cable is indifferent. And the balloon above, even more so.
                    1. Bongo
                      Bongo 5 December 2020 15: 46
                      +1
                      Quote: Avis
                      This is also enough against conventional information security

                      What are we talking about, isn't it about this:
                      Quote: Avis
                      The same 500-600 km

                      Slightly different from 300 km, isn't it?
                      Actually what Toucan was talking about:
                      Quote: Tucan
                      In terms of detection range, they are much inferior.

                      You may not know, but the ground-based standby radar "Defense-14" has a detection range at high and medium altitudes of about 450 km.
                      Quote: Avis
                      Let me guess ... :) Because of the hurricanes.

                      Partly. In two cases, strong gusts of wind during ascent and descent were the cause of the loss of balloons.
                      Quote: Avis
                      Nothing. I mean that all aircraft classes have limitations. And in combat conditions "another airfield" may no longer exist.

                      You see, for certain reasons, I am not too familiar with this topic. Not everything is as "curly" as you write.
                      What can you say about this satellite image?

                      Google Earth Satellite Image: a radar observation balloon in the Cujo Cay area of ​​Florida
                      Quote: Avis
                      And he doesn't need it. The mast will not overturn, and the cable is indifferent. And the balloon above, even more so.

                      I have to disappoint you, several times ground structures broke.
                      Quote: Avis
                      Yes, the program is slowed down, I got better. This is temporary.

                      Balloons are not a bad solution for border security, but they are peacetime systems. In addition, you do not correctly imagine the structure and tactics of the American air defense.
                      1. Reviews
                        Reviews 5 December 2020 16: 00
                        +1

                        What are we talking about, isn't it about this:
                        Quote: Avis
                        The same 500-600 km

                        Slightly different from 300 km, isn't it?

                        Okay, let it be different. Significantly. Serial. But one cannot but look into the future.
                        Maybe you don't know, but the "Defense-14" ground radar has a detection range on large and medium heights of about 450 km.

                        The key is highlighted.
                        Partly. In two cases, strong gusts of wind during ascent and descent were the cause of the loss of balloons.

                        And what was such an urgent need? Would wait for improvement. Gusts of wind and planes "do not like". Until leaving for a spare.
                        What can you say about this satellite image?

                        Nothing special. Playground and hut. Look at any mediocre airfield.
                        I have to disappoint you, several times ground structures broke.

                        "Several" hundreds of times and the planes on the ground broke (not by hurricanes) and the roof was blown off the hangars (parts of the roof fell inside), and other infrastructure, without which the operation of the aircraft is impossible or difficult.
                        Balloons are not a bad solution for border security, but they are peacetime systems.

                        WWII observation balloons are now very surprised.
                        Actually, I am a stubborn airplane, but aeronautics has its huge advantages and its own niche.
                      2. Bongo
                        Bongo 5 December 2020 16: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: Avis
                        Okay, let it be different. Significantly. Serial. But one cannot but look into the future.

                        Let's talk about what is.
                        Quote: Avis
                        The key is highlighted.

                        It is not for nothing that most of these stations, in combination with PRV-13, were installed at dominant heights. wink
                        Quote: Avis
                        Nothing special. Playground and hut. Look at any mediocre airfield.

                        This I mean, even for balloons, prepared areas are required. Would you like some more pictures? Everywhere the same thing - a capital stationary position.
                        Quote: Avis
                        And what was such an urgent need? Would wait for improvement.

                        It is necessary to ask the operators. Don't discount the unpredictability of the weather in the Caribbean. In practice, it turned out that there is much more sense against the smugglers' aircraft from the P-3В AEW and P-3CS AWACS aircraft. Under the same conditions, not a single car was lost.
                        Quote: Avis
                        WWII observation balloons are now very surprised.

                        Observation balloons did not play a special role in WWII. And let's remember the PMA? The means of destruction have not changed?
                        Quote: Avis
                        "Several" hundreds of times and the planes on the ground broke (not by hurricanes) and the roof was blown off the hangars (parts of the roof fell inside), and other infrastructure, without which the operation of the aircraft is impossible or difficult.

                        When and where was the last time AWACS aircraft were broken by a hurricane?
                      3. Reviews
                        Reviews 5 December 2020 16: 45
                        -1
                        Let's talk about what is.

                        The article under discussion is not even about perspective, so it is not accepted.
                        It is not for nothing that most of these stations, in combination with PRV-13, were installed at dominant heights. wink

                        Yeah, we have, after all, there are so many "mounds" 4,5 km high ...
                        This I mean, even for balloons, prepared areas are required.

                        Not required. But, of course, it is better to have artificial turf, only the bad one wants to live in the mud. But for most aircraft, runways are indeed required. And maybe more area than in the picture. And without pebbles. And with a bunch of utility services and premises. And in the dark, he, the dog, even in ideal weather, needs a MTR, and even better, RTS. And for each flight, for some reason, such a gluttony, it requires fuel, that it just doesn't fly to it. And, for some reason, this is more than two buckets, TK needs to be adjusted every time ... And so on.

                        Would you like some more pictures?

                        No. They don't prove anything. So far there is little work and a lot of time to organize the coverage. When it will be the other way around, and they will be grounded on the ground. Unlike an airplane.
                        Don't discount the unpredictability of the weather in the Caribbean.

                        The weather service has been well established there since the 1950s. Fewer Latinos should be on the team.

                        In practice, it turned out that there is much more sense against the smugglers' aircraft from the P-3В AEW and P-3CS AWACS aircraft.

                        Well this is how much kerosene and salary l / s down the drain ...
                        Observation balloons did not play a special role in WWII.

                        Did you talk about "peacetime" in the context of vulnerability? What does "role" have to do with it?

                        And let's remember the PMA?

                        Remember if you have nothing to do. I don't remember in this context.

                        The means of destruction have not changed?

                        Air defense systems have not changed? Well, let them spend rockets on a penny canister instead of airplanes ...
                        When and where was the last time AWACS aircraft were broken by a hurricane?

                        How do they differ in this sense from other aircraft? If they were hit by the elements, they would be broken too. A matter of luck. Those hurricanes that tore one of those 4 cylinders would have broken the plane too. The same applies to the hurricane that dropped the mast.
                      4. Bongo
                        Bongo 7 December 2020 03: 54
                        +2
                        Good morning!
                        Quote: Avis
                        The article under discussion is not even about perspective, so it is not accepted.

                        To accept or not to accept is up to you. But it seems to me that we discussed the existing models of radar balloons. And the creation of the UAVs proposed in this publication is still beyond our industry's strength. No.
                        Quote: Avis
                        Yeah, we have, after all, there are so many "mounds" 4,5 km high ...

                        There are radar posts at altitudes up to 1,5 km, at least in the Far East. As for 4,5 km, the Americans usually do not lift balloons above 2,7 km.
                        Quote: Avis
                        No. They don't prove anything. So far there is little work and a lot of time to organize the coverage. When it will be the other way around, and they will be grounded on the ground. Unlike an airplane.

                        I am not a prophet, I do not know what will happen, and I speak about what is.

                        Ground structures for launching such a balloon are rather cumbersome, require well-prepared concreted areas and cannot be used on the ground.
                        Quote: Avis
                        The weather service has been well established there since the 1950s. Fewer Latinos should be on the team.

                        It seems to me that the point is not in the "Latinos" No. The balloon, as you probably know, carries a long watch at one point and is subject to all weather factors in the area. He is not immune from strong sudden gusts of wind, but he cannot escape like an airplane from a hurricane.
                        Quote: Avis
                        Well this is how much kerosene and salary l / s down the drain ..


                        Nevertheless, these converted Orions were more effective than balloons against smugglers in the Caribbean. Well, sometimes the E-2C fleet reserve squadrons are brought in to help them. Mariners receive additional training, and the customs service gets more opportunities to control the airspace.
                        Quote: Avis
                        Did you talk about "peacetime" in the context of vulnerability? What does "role" have to do with it?

                        Quote: Avis
                        Remember if you have nothing to do. I don't remember in this context.

                        It seems to me that you are already starting to engage in verbiage and demagoguery. request
                        Quote: Avis
                        Air defense systems have not changed? Well, let them spend rockets on a penny canister instead of airplanes ...

                        And how much is this "penny balloon" (photo above), together with ground equipment, radar, SPD and personnel? In any case, the balloon radar system is much more expensive. Any radar station in the frontal zone is very vulnerable. And the balloon system, in addition to such a unmasking factor as high-frequency radiation, is also very noticeable visually.
                        Quote: Avis
                        How do they differ in this sense from other aircraft? If they were hit by the elements, they would be broken too. A matter of luck. Those hurricanes that tore one of those 4 cylinders would have broken the plane too. The same applies to the hurricane that dropped the mast.

                        Quote: Avis
                        The weather service has been well established there since the 1950s.

                        Don't you feel like you're contradicting yourself a little? With the threat of a hurricane, AWACS aircraft are quickly relocated to other aerodromes, and the balloon does not have such an opportunity. You are faithful, you know that well.
                      5. Reviews
                        Reviews 7 December 2020 08: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Bongo
                        It seems to me that you are already starting to engage in verbiage and demagoguery.

                        That's how. Well, then, the conversation is over.
                      6. ironic
                        ironic 25 January 2021 12: 57
                        +2
                        Balloons without concrete? Of course they can. Read about Israel's TAOS system.
                      7. Bongo
                        Bongo 25 January 2021 13: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: ironic
                        Balloons without concrete? Of course they can. Read about Israel's TAOS system.

                        In fact, it was about deployed American balloon radar surveillance systems. And before giving any advice to anyone, it’s not bad to go to your profile. About the means of radar control of the airspace, at least I am as informed as you are. hi
                      8. ironic
                        ironic 25 January 2021 13: 12
                        0
                        Actually, some of them, at least, are the Israeli systems. If you don't know this, then it's worse. So why not give you some advice? This is not to the detriment, it is to gain. wink
                      9. Bongo
                        Bongo 25 January 2021 13: 22
                        +3
                        Quote: ironic
                        Actually, some of them, at least, are the Israeli systems. If you don't know this, then it's worse. So why not give you some advice? This is not to the detriment, it is to gain. wink

                        Please remind me what elements of Israeli production are used on the Tethered Aerostat Radar System balloons deployed on the Mexican-American border and in Florida?
                      10. ironic
                        ironic 25 January 2021 14: 14
                        0
                        Does SkyGuard 1 remind you of anything? Quite a common practice, when the US military-industrial complex buys some kind of Israeli military or dual-use product in a small amount (which often and to a large extent finances) then transfers the production of a subsidiary company in the USA, therefore it releases its own with changes according to its own needs already under its own brand with additives, buns and gadgets. Who do you think Lockheed did these projects with? Military / security software is the same story.
                      11. Bongo
                        Bongo 25 January 2021 14: 37
                        +3
                        I understand you are on directly delivered the question cannot be answered. No. Instead, do demagogy. negative
                        Well, I will enlighten you a little about the TAOS system.
                        In the first half of the 80s In the southeastern regions of the United States, the deployment of the Tethered Aerostat Radar System (Tethered Aerostat Radar System) began in the interests of the US Border and Customs Service.

                        The balloon, 25 meters in length and 8 meters in width, as a payload of 125 kg, carries an AN / APG-66 radar with a detection range of up to 120 km. This radar was originally used on F-16A / B fighters. The TARS balloon can be operated with a horizontal wind of up to 90 km / h. Filled with helium, he is able to stay at a working height of 2700 meters continuously for two weeks.

                        Since the end of the 90-ies, TARS balloons began to be replaced with LASS (Low Altitude Surveillance System) instruments. The Lockheed Martin 420K aerostat is equipped with AN / TPS-63 radar with a detection range of 300 km and optoelectronic tracking systems for the earth and water surfaces.


                        Since when did the AN / APG-66 and AN / TPS-63 radars become American?
                        Contact what, please? And please leave advice to those who need them. wink
                        All the best! hi
                      12. ironic
                        ironic 25 January 2021 16: 20
                        -1
                        Those. You wrote all this to me initially with the sole purpose of expressing your sarcasm, in the hope that I am unable to remember about the presence of your article on VO?

                        https://topwar.ru/105796-sistema-pvo-severnoy-ameriki-chast-5.html

                        Or was I banned in Google and I can't even read the elementary ones?

                        https://www.cbp.gov/frontline/frontline-november-aerostats

                        Or do you think I do not know who is nominally the creator and manufacturer of AN / APG-66? -> "originally designed by the Westinghouse Electric Corporation (now Northrop Grumman)". Nirazu is not America yes.

                        Lowers you for mediocre, unpleasant communication methods.

                        And behind the words "demogogy" in such cases hides one's own inability to honestly and openly operate with the terms true / false, because it is more difficult to say to the face what is where and who is lying, therefore, a word-excuse is required, when they initially gather not to communicate, but puffs up from their own importance ...

                        Given this position, I would hardly turn to you, even if there was a need and would prefer the worst than the best of you. stop
            2. Toucan
              Toucan 25 January 2021 16: 21
              +2
              Read about Israel's TAOS system.
              wassat
              Since when did TAOS, which was put into operation 35 years ago, become Israeli? This is called: "heard the ringing" ...
              Israeli components were indeed used in the JLENS (Joint Land Attack Cruise Missile Defense Elevated Netted Sensor System) tethered balloon radar system developed by Raytheon.
              But her prospects are not determined, and she is not on constant duty.
  3. Avior
    Avior 5 December 2020 22: 05
    +3
    Direct radio line of sight cannot be bypassed.
    The ground object will be in line of sight of the air at a distance of 420 km at altitudes of 10 km and higher.
  • Reviews
    Reviews 5 December 2020 08: 28
    +2
    Quote: Magic Archer
    Somehow the idea of ​​installing a radar on an airship was hovering. Quite worthy. Infa by cable can go directly to the operator's room by cable. Plus, it can look beyond the horizon. Well, the operating price is lower.

    As "Tucan" correctly noted, if "by cable to the ground", it is a tethered balloon. There are such. JLENS (Joint Land Attack Cruise Missile Defense Elevated Netted Sensor System). Seeks out for the ground forces of the Kyrgyz Republic and other purposes.



    A similar system is also being used by the US Drug Enforcement Agency, looking for low-flying drug planes over the Mexican border.

    But there were also AWACS airships: in the 1950s, a dozen ZPG-2W series airships with a radar antenna inside the shell were built in the USA. Their century was short-lived - in 1951, the first AAC aircraft RC-121 took off and gradually the operation of airships came to naught.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 5 December 2020 07: 40
    +5
    Dreams Dreams. Where is your sweetness.
    Otherwise, yes, the author is largely right. IL-76 is far from the best carrier.
    And the crew is also not required on board, the example of "globalkhoks" confirms.
    Only in our country even the ancient IL cannot be serially reproduced, but here it is generally proposed to make a new large aircraft, and even an unmanned one. Yes, plus a powerful new locator, ....
    It is fantastic...
    Unfortunately.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 5 December 2020 07: 46
      +1
      I largely agree with you, yes In my opinion, we need an AWACS aircraft based on the An-26 ... An-12 class aircraft. But your example with "Globalhok" is not entirely clear. Do you want to say that it is used for radar detection of air targets? Or something I didn't understand? what
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 5 December 2020 08: 04
        0
        Quote: Tucan
        Do you want to say that it is used for radar detection of air targets?

        They write that such a regime is provided. But the point is not that, but that the communication channel is coping.
  • Reviews
    Reviews 5 December 2020 08: 33
    +5
    The second buffoon appeared ...
    The first successful AWACS was (...) E2 Hawkeye.

    "The first successful AWACS was" RC-121 / EC-121.

    In the USSR, the first AWACS was developed on the basis of the Tu-126.

    Aircraft AWACS Tu-126 was developed "on the basis" of Tu-114.

    The stabilizer, raised to the top of the keel and located behind the "mushroom", when the antenna turned to the tail sector, caused the radar beam to be reflected to the ground.

    The main area of ​​AWACS operation is on the side of the fuselage.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 5 December 2020 09: 42
    -3
    Among the amers, DEPRA is engaged in testing various ideas from the population in practice, and out of hundreds of slag, there are necessarily units of diamonds that, when polished by the military-industrial complex, become diamonds (UAV, swarm, etc.). We don’t have that, but the people are putting forward ideas on open sites, the expanse for exploration, read it, and make samples, beauty! Maybe we should stop the practice of publishing concepts for defense in open sources, and help authors to send their materials to specialized research institutions?
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 6 December 2020 01: 55
      -2
      yes, at least just a website made where ideas from the population are accepted.
      I have a pancake so many ideas for all the time that I already do not remember even half of what topic. although in srach in tyrnet people wrote that some ideas were interesting.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 5 December 2020 10: 03
    +2
    The article is relevant and very correct.
    The modern air defense and missile defense system of Russia is designed to protect against aviation and ballistic missiles. But before an attack by NATO aircraft and ICBMs, this system will be preliminarily destroyed by low-flying missile launchers. The United States has put into service several thousand Tomahawks with a range of up to 2500 km.
    Therefore, it is necessary to urgently strengthen the AWACS aviation. Moreover, the most economical option would be AWACS unmanned aerial vehicles, which, moreover, have a significantly larger margin of time to be on alert.
    Otherwise, we will repeat the fate of the Armenians, only in a much worse version. Definitely, the US top is preparing a "preventive" attack against Russia, which does not require an initial concentration of forces.
    1. arkadiyssk
      arkadiyssk 5 December 2020 12: 23
      +2
      Perhaps even sadder everything will turn out. Nobody will destroy "all" our echeloned air defense system. Pointwise, albeit with losses, they will knock out a couple of battalions on the border in the right places, and Tomahawks and stealths will be launched into the holes formed inland to the destroyed objects. So out of all the thousands of S-300, 400 on our borders, a few will have to fight, and even then, located near the objects covered. In my opinion, it is obvious that there is no alternative to the AWACS fleet and the tanker fleet for their round-the-clock duty.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 5 December 2020 12: 40
        +3
        The problem is that low-flying objects, even in theory, can be detected at a distance of 30-40 km from the ground. In practice, this may not happen either. Ground air defense is useless without AWACS aircraft / helicopters. This has been proven and re-proven. Only an integrated solution (air + ground) is capable of solving air defense / missile defense tasks.
      2. Bongo
        Bongo 5 December 2020 15: 26
        +2
        Quote: arkadiyssk
        So out of all the thousands of S-300, 400 on our borders, several will have to fight

        In the Russian Aerospace Forces, they carry a database of approximately 110 combat missiles of medium and long-range air defense systems. About "several thousand" you got very excited.
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 5 December 2020 21: 01
        +2
        "So out of all the thousands of S-300, 400 on our borders, a few will have to fight and even then,
        located near objects covered by "///
        -----
        I agree. Missile border air defense is not destroyed, but deceived. Bypass.
        They make passes. Most of the complexes will remain unclaimed.
        AWACS plus interceptor fighters, by contrast, provide a flexible response.
  • iouris
    iouris 5 December 2020 12: 01
    -2
    Soon it will be possible to fly to Turkey (if there is no war) only on an unmanned passenger plane. Robots will serve in the flight. The State Duma will be replaced by the computer program MS Office ...
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 5 December 2020 12: 40
    +2
    I think it will be much cheaper to use mass-produced medium - large UAVs when they appear ... and small - middle class passenger airliners when we localize them. Aggregates must be serial and pilots too, so that they can be summoned from civilian life. With the presence of modern avionics, satellites and communication channels, I think that it is quite possible to convert into a UAV with an increase in the range, some SSZh-100 or Il114.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 5 December 2020 15: 01
      +2
      Quote: Zaurbek
      medium-large serial UAVs when they appear

      If they were engaged in would have appeared long ago. There were a lot of projects.
  • Operator
    Operator 5 December 2020 13: 04
    +1
    A specialized UAV AWACS must have a rhombic body, in each face of which an AFAR is installed, overlooking a sector of space at 90 degrees.

    At the tops of the rhombus, there is a head fairing with a front landing gear, two wings with side landing gears and a turbofan engine with a thrust vector control. The tail assembly is foldable and is used for takeoff and landing. The onboard equipment and the fuel tank are located in the center of the hull.

    The airframe of the UAV AWACS is made of radio-transparent organoplastic.

    Communication with the repeater UAV is carried out over a narrow radio beam formed by the AFAR in the direction of the repeater UAV.

    PS Non-specialized Russian UAV AWACS based on promising Sirius and Helios was shown at the Army-2020 exhibition. A flat double-sided AFAR was installed vertically under the fuselage as one of the types of payload. A pair of such UAVs provides a circular radar view of the airspace.
    1. Operator
      Operator 5 December 2020 18: 45
      -2
      Kvadratishe, praktiche, gud

  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 5 December 2020 16: 21
    +2
    We need to take a ready-made platform and do a little AWACS.
    And I like the Yak-44.
    1. iouris
      iouris 5 December 2020 20: 51
      +3
      Quote: Pavel57
      And I like the Yak-44.

      Every whim for your money. In the coming year, the budget will be very difficult.
  • borys
    borys 5 December 2020 17: 35
    0
    Today the site has as many as two articles on AWACS. Unites these
    article that both authors are very superficially familiar with this
    theme. They do not have specific information, but reason
    long and ornate.
  • Gardener91
    Gardener91 5 December 2020 21: 30
    +1
    Want fiction? 5G cellular network, further develop your "thought" yourself.
  • Avior
    Avior 5 December 2020 22: 16
    +4
    The Americans and the British had the first really operating AWACS back in the war on the basis of the Grumans and Wellingtons.
    Perhaps the location of the Afar antenna and above the fuselage, there are some on the Embraer base.
    As for the UAV-based radar, you can use the experience of American helicopters with the Lamp 3 system.
    On deck helicopters, there are relatively simple signal processing stations, but in parallel with this, the original unprocessed signal is transmitted through the Lamp 3 system to the ship's computer center, where it is processed, which improves the quality of detection and range.
    But there we are not talking about a distance of 500 km
  • riwas
    riwas 6 December 2020 04: 40
    +1
    Russian defense enterprises have begun the development of the latest long-range radar surveillance complex based on a helicopter-type drone that will direct anti-aircraft missiles to enemy attack drones and missile defense systems. The work on the complex "was initiated on the basis of an analysis of the experience of recent local conflicts, which shows the increased role of attack drones." The development, according to the interlocutor, is being carried out on the basis of the existing groundwork, therefore the complex will be created as soon as possible.
    https://ria.ru/20201205/dron-1587772901.html
  • SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 6 December 2020 10: 04
    0
    Maximum power consumption of the radar is 180 kW.


    Now tell me the power of the PD-14 engine generator ...

    And this is where all the ideas of a compact economical drone with a powerful radar end ...
  • Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 6 December 2020 12: 03
    +2
    Unfortunately, even ground-based radars have limitations on wind loads, especially during icing. The well-remembered pair "Defense" -PRV was placed under a radio-transparent shelter and operated without restrictions on wind and ice. But 73E6 without RPU sometimes had to be turned off even at 3 rpm.
  • Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 6 December 2020 12: 20
    +1
    Let's take into account that with a flight altitude of 16 km, the radius of detection of enemy ships will be 520 km. That is, the achieved range of the control center will ensure the launch of the Onyx anti-ship missile system at the full flight range.

    I would like to know the opinion of experts: in fact, with this phrase, the author justifies the advisability of a bundle of an AWACS UAV and an officer on duty in the water area of ​​the MRK pr.21631 or 22800 or a specialized carrier of the Samum MRK type or maybe on hydrofoils from the position in the base?
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 29 January 2021 09: 54
      +1
      520 km

      I do not share the author's optimism about detecting ships at such a distance
      Probably, it is possible to establish an unclear contact by the vector (and that is not a fact!) or to track the radar action, but no more. I'm not sure if this is enough to guide missiles.

      it seems to me that at sea the real detection radius will be in the region of 250-300 km.
  • Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 6 December 2020 13: 08
    0
    The author is wrong about one thing: the level of novelty of all elements and systems of the proposed project is off scale. Which turns it into fiction, albeit a scientific one. Aircraft AWACS "Hawkeye" and "Sentry" were created on well-proven aircraft mastered in production and operation, and here immediately the heavy-class UAVs! Radar target designation with the functions of identification, data transmission, electronic warfare elements - it smells of artificial intelligence - maybe for a start try to create just a radar detect?
    The nasal antenna contains 184 PPMs of 80 W pulsed power and liquid-cooled. Beam width 7,5 * 6 °, scanning angles ± 60 ° in azimuth and ± 45 ° in elevation.

    Obviously we can't pull target designation with such a beam. It is easier to replace the front AFAR with the existing PFAR "NO35 Irbis" from the Su-35. Dual-band performance in the whole system will be beneficial.
  • Bongo
    Bongo 25 January 2021 13: 28
    +1
    Quote: ironic
    Balloons without concrete? Of course they can. Read about Israel's TAOS system.

    And as for the "Israeli" balloons. Using the coordinates, you can determine the territory of which country in the picture?

    The concrete platform and the balloon are quite distinguishable. wink
  • yehat2
    yehat2 29 January 2021 09: 37
    +1
    author, what if the radar station is placed under the belly of the plane?
  • yehat2
    yehat2 29 January 2021 09: 39
    +1
    Quote: Tucan
    which will also be vulnerable to interference

    I wonder how to put sufficient interference with such an aircraft at a distance of 200-300 km?
    easier to shoot down
    1. Scharnhorst
      Scharnhorst 29 January 2021 13: 24
      0
      Here you are wrong. Specialized serious jammers (this does not mean an individual system for covering a single attack aircraft located on board), as a rule, they work only outside the zones of destruction of ground-based air defense systems (those same 200-300 km for air defense missile systems). If necessary, the jammer is covered by a pair of fighters. If the interference at a distance of 300 km is emitted by an omnidirectional antenna with a power of one kilowatt, then a radar receiver with a sensitivity in the path at a level of milliwatts along the main beam of the DP with a width of 7,5 * 6 degrees will be unambiguously clogged with interference. In addition, if the interference is not obstructive, but aimed at the frequency of this receiver, then it will be clogged with interference along the side and rear lobes of the antenna pattern. This means that the carrier of this radar will be almost completely blinded in its range.
      1. agond
        agond 21 February 2021 12: 10
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        A simple recipe, at a distance of 500m, two aircraft with AFARs fly and synchronously scan the space along the course, and one aircraft transmits the received and unprocessed signal to the second, on the second aircraft they process signals from two AFARs on one computer and get a picture almost without interference.
        1. Scharnhorst
          Scharnhorst 22 February 2021 08: 50
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          In a past life, I had the experience of synchronizing three radars of the same range at one position of a radio engineering unit (stationary, of course). And the synchronization of the m- and cm-range radar using the battalion's ACS. In our position, we could put up with the shortcomings, but the neighboring units from such a cacophony asked the UDKP brigade to "figure it out"! Computers and AFARs, of course, are a step forward, but qualitatively synchronizing on launch, in the direction of the beam and also on the transmission of an unprocessed signal to a neighboring aircraft in conditions of ambiguity in the distance between them, fluctuations in height and along the course makes the task practically impossible. You've probably heard about the possibility of location from stationary mobile networks, in your case the difficulties will be much higher. hi
          1. agond
            agond 22 February 2021 10: 34
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            Let's imagine, two A-50s are flying on the Il-76 base, at a distance of about 500m,
            1 laser rangefinders determines the distances between the centers of antennas in mushrooms with an accuracy of a centimeter
            2 very accurate watches in stock
            3 available laser gyroscopes
            4 the rotation speed of the two antennas can be matched with an accuracy exceeding that required for such work
            5 transmitting the received unprocessed signal from one antenna to another aircraft does not present any particular difficulties, since the radar stations do not operate in the optical frequency range, but at short radio waves, therefore, the amount of information is small.
            6 signal processing from two antennas on one computer is reduced to combining two directions from the signal source, so all the interference is past the checkout.
            7, the option of "scanning" is possible when the antennas do not rotate at all, the computer processes the signal received at different times (artificial delay), so it creates a virtual rotation of the antennas, but this method is suitable for phased array