Military Review

Case No. 22350 gets off the ground

138

Source: Balabin 1696, airbase.ru


United Engine Corporation handed over to the customer the first fully domestic diesel-gas turbine unit М55Р for frigates of project 22350. And the shipment of the second unit is scheduled for early December.

Is there a reason for joy? In general, there is. The frigates of project 22350 "Admiral Isakov" and "Admiral Golovko", which have risen dead, will finally be able to get into service.

True, with a delay of 2,5 years. Now this is called at length "shifting the timeline to the right," but we are well aware that this is so ornately called the inability to complete the construction within the specified time frame.

"Admiral Isakov" was supposed to receive its power plant in 2018. In the month of July, specifically. Received a little later, which is still a reason for expressing satisfaction. Looking back over the years.

According to the agreement signed in 2015, the so-called ship kit for the frigate "Admiral Isakov" cost 2,295 billion rubles. The ship kit consisted of two M55R diesel-gas turbine units. According to the contract, it was planned to build:

• control systems "Metel-55" and "Sheksna-90", vibration diagnostic equipment VDA-56.
The cost of one set is 102 million rubles, the production period is July 2016.
• diesel engine 10D49 with "Blizzard" control system.
The cost of one set is 108 million rubles, the production period is September 2017.
• PO55 reducer, transmission, VSM37 / M55R.
The cost of one set is 299 million rubles, the production period is December 2017.
• gas turbine engine М90ФР with transmission elements.
The cost of one set is 593 million rubles, the production period is November-December 2017.

In general, they were a little late.

Moreover, the first ship kit is intended for the frigate "Admiral Isakov", which is still at the stage of slipway construction. Meanwhile, the frigate "Admiral Golovko", which was left without a propulsion system, will receive only the second set.


Source: cipit.gov.spb.ru

This is due to the fact that it is necessary to renegotiate a bunch of agreements and contracts, since the supplier of engines for Admiral Golovko is still legally considered ZAO Turborus, a Russian-Ukrainian joint venture that includes the well-known NPO Saturn and GP NPKG Zorya "-" Mashproekt "from Ukraine.

I translate: JSC "Turborus" exists only nominally on paper and will not be able to deliver anything to anyone. Because Zorya - Mashproekt will not supply M90F gas turbine engines and PO55 gearboxes for frigates under construction in Russia.

The case when the bureaucracy is not able to replay political differences. And nevertheless, you will first have to annul a mountain of international treaties and contracts, and then conclude new ones. We will not discuss how quickly this is done in Russia. I just want to express my wish that Admiral Golovko will still be put into operation at least by the end of 2022.

And the frigates of Project 22350 will use Russian M55R engines. Evil tongues claim that these are full-fledged clones of the Ukrainian M90F, which were still a Soviet development. This means nothing "at the level of the leading NATO countries," as the optimistic part of the infosphere claims.

Case No. 22350 gets off the ground
Source: Curious, airbase.ru

And here I would like to note the following: well, a clone of a Soviet-made Ukrainian-made engine. Perhaps not as modern as we would like, but ...

There is no other, as it were. Dancing with the Germans around their engines ended in sanctions and a lack of supplies. Friendship with the Chinese around their copies of the German engines ended with urgent overhauls with original solutions, such as cutting the ship's hull.

Indeed, a copy of the old Soviet engine is better. But this engine can be assembled, installed, repaired. And no problem with parts and repair kits.

By the way, unofficial, but rather numerous, reports appeared in the press on the topic that the first ship kit, after all, by a voluntaristic decision of someone very high above, will be put on "Admiral Golovko".

A very logical decision, since the frigate is already practically on the water and waiting for the second set can easily turn it into another long-term construction. Although, in principle, "Golovko" is already long-term construction. Since 2012.

And the way out is quite normal: without waiting for thousands of papers to be processed, put the engines on the ship that can start using them faster. Only the building is being completed for Isakov, so they can definitely wait there.

I wonder how this news perceived there, abroad? It is clear that this is not about NATO, it is funny for them to look at a couple of frigates. We are talking about the SE NPKG "Zorya" - "Mashproekt" from the city of Nikolaev, glorious with ship traditions, whose M90F engines are installed on the first two frigates of project 22350 "Admiral fleet Soviet Union Gorshkov "and" Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov ".

Politically, not politically, but that's it, this page is turned. Yes, it was very difficult to turn it over, yes, most likely, in technical terms, this is a step back, but if the M55P really go into production, then this is only for the benefit of the Russian shipbuilding industry.

And once, some 30 years ago, the Soviet Union was considered a very advanced country in terms of ship propulsion ...

So, we can state that the UEC "Saturn" from Rybinsk coped with it and issued the engines.

This is very excellent information, the main thing is that in Rybinsk they can actually build them not by the piece, but in series. Because these engines are needed not just like air, but were needed yesterday.


Photo: Press Service of the Northern Fleet, mil.ru

Yesterday is when not only two Project 22350 frigates, which are being built now, but also four frigates of the same project, laid down in 2019-2020, were left without power plants. Plus, even in Kaliningrad, three frigates of the 2013r project have been unable to torment them since 11356 for the same reason: the lack of engines.

So all that remains is to wish the Rybinsk engine builders real success in mastering the mass production of engines so necessary for the fleet.
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    1. donavi49
      donavi49 4 December 2020 18: 20
      +30
      In general, it was Stalin, even in terms of rebuilding the country after the war, that launched the construction of an absolutely new turbine plant in the interests of the fleet. Moreover, he still managed to read the New Year's reports on the development and preparation for entry into service.

      And already Khrushchev decided to expand and modernize the enterprise for the gas turbine center of the Navy.
      1. Borik
        Borik 4 December 2020 18: 32
        -2
        Plus, even in Kaliningrad, three frigates of the 2013r project have been unable to torment them since 11356 for the same reason: the lack of engines.


        And why then remember the frigates of Project 11356 if they have been bought by the Indians for their fleet for more than a year already, and they themselves have agreed with the Ukrainians about the engines. But the fact that for so long our industry has been setting up production of these diesel-gas turbine units is a shame and a shame.
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 4 December 2020 18: 45
          +53
          Quote: Borik
          But the fact that for so long our industry has been setting up production of these diesel-gas turbine units is a shame and a shame.

          To begin with, the turbines for frigates 22350 were made in Rybinsk from the very beginning. Saturn made turbines, Kolomna made diesel engines, then it was sent to the Ukrainian Zorya, which added its own gearbox and gas generator, tested the assembled unit at its assembly and test complex of gas turbine engines and units and sent it to St. Petersburg. It was necessary to import substitution of some of the turbine parts, the Ukrainian gearbox, which is part of the DSTU. The turbine and gearbox were made, the assembly and testing complex of gas turbine engines and units (GTE and GTA) for marine programs, the production of ship gas turbine engines was built. Only GE, Rolls-Royce, and Dawns rogues have such technology. And now we still have it. The fact that the GEM in the collection was able to do in 7 years is a real breakthrough.
          1. bayard
            bayard 4 December 2020 20: 48
            +11
            And no one is confused by the fact that this "breakthrough", as the "first domestic power plant" was reported 1,5 years ago? When was the FIRST, FULL GEM set for frigate # 3 delivered?
            After all, what kind of fanfare was there?
            What photo reports.
            One wondered why this hull was launched without a power plant just the day before? To install it “afloat” for the first time in the world? It was then that fears were expressed that it would not end well - there needs jewelry and complete immobilization of the ship's hull ... But at the same time they promised at the end of this YEAR (or, in extreme cases, in the spring of the future) to bring this frigate to the first factory sea trials. .. what
            And?
            What happened ?
            And what happened apparently happened that could have happened in the worst case scenario - when trying to install a power plant in unconventional conditions, it was simply ... ditched.
            And now what i can do ?
            If a couple of months ago they swore that they would launch the frigate for the first running ones by the spring of 2021?
            recourse
            All right yes
            Blowing fanfare !!!
            About the fact that "the first domestic power plant" ... however, so far ONLY its half, arrived at the CVD and the issue with domestic marine engines ... SOLVED fellow
            BRILLIANT !!!
            Failure turns into yet another "change" again. good
            I read the article and just ... I was amazed ... at the cynicism, lies and disrespect for the audience that are shown to us ... there are not just "shipbuilders" ... but the authorities in general.
            Does everyone really have a "fish memory" and no one remembers yesterday?
            What was said on this topic just a couple of months ago?
            Doesn't anyone really remember this?

            ... It is a pity that "Aristarkh Ludwigovich" has not appeared on our forums for a long time (already more than six months), he was in the subject of this project and even published photo reports (by stages!) Of assembling the first gearboxes for that - now ditched GEM .. He then expressed his fears that the installation afloat could present very bad surprises ... As he looked into the water ...
            And now ... a new rework - the previously supplied power plant is considered by default to be non-existent (and did not exist) and ordered to rejoice at assembling a turbo-diesel bundle on one shaft, as a "great breakthrough" ...
            ... But really the first power plant seems to be ditched completely.

            I was really looking forward to hearing about the first chassis from that (already ditched power plant), because only successful tests on the go can confirm that Russia has its own production of such units.
            And now, in order to make sure that we have IT, we will have to wait at least two more years.
            And as always, there will be no guilty ones.
            As well as confirmed competencies on the possibilities of creating such and similar power plants.
            Until the first frigate 22350 with a domestic installation will not enter service.
            1. ihnovich990
              ihnovich990 5 December 2020 00: 47
              -3
              Well, our uryaklov's brains are 0. The main thing is to crow, and there at least don't dawn.
              1. bayard
                bayard 5 December 2020 01: 45
                +10
                Yes, you just had to start talking about the "loss" of the first set of power plants for 22350. It was almost ditched during bench tests ... But then it carried over.
                But what happened this time?
                Installed with a skewed shaft, it jammed on samples and ... the gearbox and the diesel / turbine went into gear?
                Just drowned while trying to install with a harbor crane?
                You just need to install such a critical piece very accurately, with an overhead / girder crane with a crane operator's cabin ABOVE the object - for "sniper aiming" during installation. The body must be absolutely motionless for the most accurate alignment ...
                Who came up with the idea to launch this building ?!
                On the eve of the receipt of the long-awaited power plant at the plant ...
                Who is this smart guy and innovator? !!!
                Or was someone interested in doing exactly THIS?
                1. Grits
                  Grits 5 December 2020 04: 47
                  +10
                  Quote: bayard
                  Who came up with the idea to launch this building ?!
                  On the eve of the receipt of the long-awaited power plant at the plant ...
                  Who is this smart guy and innovator? !!!
                  Or was someone interested in doing exactly THIS?

                  Joseph Vissarionovich in such cases said that every mistake has a first and last name. I think these names continue to rake the salaries of "effective managers"
                  1. Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
                    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 5 December 2020 13: 31
                    +4
                    I would like to clarify: and in this case, what exactly is it about,
                    - about an error?
                    - about negligence?
                    - about a purposeful malicious act?
                    Who exactly made the decision to install the power plant "on the water"?
                    Who specifically confirmed the technical and actual possibility of installing the power plant "on water"?
                    Which of the persons who made the decision to install the power plant "on the water" and in what time frame will compensate for the damage?
                    Will the personal savings and property of those who made this decision be a source of funds to compensate for the damage caused?
                    Will the persons who made and confirmed this decision retain their leadership positions?
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 5 December 2020 15: 00
                      +7
                      Judging by the fact that an obvious decision has been made to "stick the ends in the water", the guilty will not be named to us, because the first power plant now seems to be gone.
                      Only the management of the Shipyard (with a low degree of probability) and the management of the USC (with a greater probability) could make such a decision for the sake of freeing up a slipway for laying new buildings - the same 22350. I wanted to report with a friendly bookmark ... But judging by the fact that any engineer perfectly understood the risks associated with this, the malicious intent of the manager is not excluded.
                      As for the rest of the questions and wishes, I must grieve you - responsibility does not come in the modern government, because it is EXCLUDED on the basis of a contractual consensus "about power". They attract ONLY those who violated the rules (not the laws), and ONLY for the edification of others.
                      "Friends - EVERYTHING
                      The rest is the LAW! "
                      1. Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
                        Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 5 December 2020 17: 26
                        +9
                        Quote: bayard
                        As for the rest of the questions and wishes, I must grieve you - responsibility does not come in the modern government, because it is EXCLUDED on the basis of a contractual consensus "about power". They attract ONLY those who violated the rules (not the laws), and ONLY for the edification of others.
                        "Friends - EVERYTHING
                        The rest is the LAW! "

                        But this is really upsetting.
                        This means that, alas, nothing good will shine for us and our Motherland under this power and this president. Over time, it will only get worse and more hopeless ...
                      2. zwlad
                        zwlad 5 December 2020 22: 24
                        -2
                        Here. Again, Putin is to blame.
                      3. bayard
                        bayard 6 December 2020 19: 46
                        +5
                        Quote: zwlad
                        Here. Again, Putin is to blame.

                        So he seems to be responsible for everything - "supreme commander-in-chief" after all.
                        Under Nicholas-2, the Russo-Japanese war about ...., lost in short, whose fault?
                        Admirals?
                        Generals?
                        Shipbuilders?
                        Gunsmiths?
                        ... Of course not .
                        Exclusively because of the stupid king who has withdrawn from his duties.
                        And now, both in the country and in the army, everything is just like on the eve of that - more than a century-old catastrophe.
                        And what parades were. fellow
                        What reviews to troops and ships ...
                        ... And then, out of shame, they did not know where to go ...
                        If ministers steal, are ministers to blame?
                        They are thieves by nature.
                        It's just that the king, for some reason, chose them from all possible ones.
                        Therefore, no one regretted him.
                        Only in the 90s did the special services begin to promote the "martyr tsar".
                        The special services were far away, not only ours.

                        And Putin, of course, is not to blame. yes
                      4. Okolotochny
                        Okolotochny 8 December 2020 13: 18
                        -1
                        So he seems to be responsible for everything - "supreme commander-in-chief" after all.
                        Under Nicholas-2, the Russo-Japanese war about ...., lost in short, whose fault?

                        For 1941 and 1942, with over a million prisoners, but about those killed, Stalin kept silent to the wall?
                      5. bayard
                        bayard 8 December 2020 15: 36
                        +7
                        If I had lost, I would have failed - YES. For collectivization, industrialization, and purges in the state and the army, all the overstrain of the country were for the sake of THIS - to prepare and withstand, to WIN the war.
                        And Stalin DID.
                        I coped with everything.
                        And what did Nikolai handle -2?
                        Two lost wars and three revolutions!
                        The country has almost sunk into oblivion.
                        Holy-oh-oh. yes
                        Almost ten years before the war with Japan, which they knew about and ... they seemed to be preparing ... instead of vigorously training the Navy, Army and Country ... he was engaged in ... the production of ... the Heir. lol
                        Yes Yes . yes
                        They explained to him that for the Fatherland this is the MOST important thing that he can do ...
                        But things didn't go well. recourse
                        Girls were born ...
                        The "holy" king fell into panic and despair, gathered sorcerers around the world to help in such an important matter ...
                        Helped ... yes
                        And then there is already a war ... there is no time to prepare. request
                        But he did the main thing. bully
                        Made an heir.
                        With hemophilia.
                        But daddy to him - a dunce, said: "Take the Russian princess as your wife!" ... But Kolenka was very stubborn.
                        A lost war, revolution, riots and pogroms throughout the country, rampant terrorism ...
                        What's the difference . smile
                        He can lose one more war.
                        And he lost. yes
                        Although he had to win over everyone.
                        But the "saints" have their own ways, he and two more revolutions for the Country managed ...

                        And Putin, of course, has nothing to do with it.
                        It is not to blame that the people are sinking into poverty (over the past 7 years, the standard of living has dropped by 2 - 2,5 times).
                        That people do not live up to retirement now is not to blame.
                        The fact that there is continuous nepotism and sabotage in the military-industrial complex, the failure of programs and contracts is NOT to blame!
                        "Rafik neuvinnoven".
                        The fact that the country is AGAIN not ready for war is not guilty.
                        Where are the AWACS planes? !!!
                        Where are they ?!!!
                        How to conduct an air war without them ?!
                        Manage air operations ?!
                        Reflect the raids of the Kyrgyz Republic on PMA? !!!
                        No.
                        The fact that the devil is going on at USC ... is not guilty ?!
                        In the aircraft industry?
                        In the entire aircraft industry !!!?
                        In engine building? smile
                        In drone drones?
                        Maybe ... the Sarmat ICBM, which the Americans are so afraid of, took off?
                        At least once ?
                        Throwers do not count.
                        And what took off?
                        Zircon?
                        But no one saw him (the launch footage could have been from the launch of the Onyx), and the defeat of the naval mobile target has not yet been confirmed.
                        "Dagger" also does not fly at sea targets.
                        Maybe for now, maybe for good ...
                        So what to boast about?
                        Armata?
                        Su-57?
                        "Vanguard" on an old UR-100UTTH? smile , the value of which is very doubtful, and in service there are only 2 - 4 pieces. Have them in their "head" 6 warheads of 600 Kt. , it would be much more interesting.
                        So how did he deserve innocence, if he lost in everything, betrayed everyone and at the end of his career lost his adequacy, hitting "tsofrovization", total "vaccination", the idea of ​​raising artificial people with predetermined parameters (a soldier without fear and doubt, uncomplaining working slaves managers who know their place) ... did you hear how he talked about it, pacing in front of young jerks? Like Steve Jops, Elon Musk, or Bill Gates in one bottle.
                        He cares about Russia. yes
                        Happy. yes
                        And he will be happy. yes
                        Until the death tear us apart .
                        For the Great Zeroing, for our benefit, of course, took place. yes
                        And the People ... are dying out.
                        For 500 - 600 thousand people a year!

                        Good-for-good guy!
                        And not guilty of anything. yes
                        The next step is canonization during his lifetime.
                        Icons are already being written.
                      6. Selevc
                        Selevc 13 December 2020 00: 36
                        -1
                        .
                        [/ quote] [quote = bayard] And what did Nikolay -2 do?
                        Two lost wars and three revolutions!
                        The country has almost sunk into oblivion.
                        Holy-oh-oh.

                        Yes - whatever one may say, but the abdication of the tsar at the peak of the 1st World War is a turning point for the whole war and for Russia in general !!!
                        In St. Petersburg, allegedly due to interruptions in the delivery of bread, a revolution took place - this is in a country in which most of the citizens were peasants and farmers and which traded grain for half the world !!!

                        Chickens laughing - who invents such a thing ??? !!!

                        The Russian army suffered regular defeats from the Germans at the 1st stage of the war (as a result of the constant leakage of information from the General Staff) because the stupid tsar and his corrupt entourage spawned spies like cockroaches !!! And while the tsar was counting the crows in the park and was picking his nose, the Germans gave him an unexpected blow in the stomach in the form of a revolution !!!

                        Here are the deeds and their results - a herd of peacocks dressed up with feathers, headed by the main "holy man" in the crown !!!
                      7. bayard
                        bayard 16 December 2020 04: 16
                        +1
                        The revolution was not brought to us by the Germans, but by the then allies - the British and the French. February - their handiwork, their personnel base. But the German General Staff tried through Parvus, but the overthrow of the king was from them - the British. And it was their attaché who was present at the murder of Rasputin, from which the February bedlam began.
                  2. bayard
                    bayard 8 December 2020 15: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    1941 and 1942, with over a million prisoners

                    The history of that war you MUST KNOW!
                    By the end of autumn 1941, the number of captured Red Army soldiers amounted to 3 million people.
                    You should know it .
                    To understand WHAT this war was.
                    And at WHAT price was the Victory given.
          2. silver_roman
            silver_roman 6 December 2020 02: 21
            +1
            I apologize. I'm trying to figure out what happened. not fully entered. And where did this GTDU come from, which they tried to put together on the 3rd body? by the way is it on Golovko?
            And why, if it was ditched, then not earlier than 2 years later the sea trials? I don’t understand exactly which design bureau made the first Russian (spoiled) GTDU for 22350 and why they again cannot do it in a short time? those. does the chain have to be worked out or is it such a long process? I'm just an amateur in these matters. Thank you
          3. alexmach
            alexmach 6 December 2020 13: 37
            +4
            I apologize. I'm trying to figure out what happened. not fully entered. And where did this GTDU come from, which they tried to put together on the 3rd body? by the way is it on Golovko?

            Yes, all from there, from the same "Saturn".
            I remember here from memory and there may be some inaccuracies, but initially they threatened to substitute the power plant for import in 3 years in my opinion. The delivery time for the first domestic installation was actually 2018. And really, either at the end of 18, or at the beginning of 19 (a small delay does not count at all), it was announced that Saturn successfully coped with the creation of an "installation batch" of engines and power plants (now they are reporting the delivery of the first serial).
            And then some very strange messages went. Either the First Russian port-substituted engines have already been delivered to Severnaya Verf to be installed on the Admiral Golovko Frigate, then suddenly the gearboxes from this batch are still undergoing bench tests in Rybinsk "assembled". Assembled with what the hell if the engines are already on the SV? Then there was a message about the launch of the "Golovko" into the water, but with the installed "elements of the GEM installation" (we were waiting for this message, but what does it mean with the elements? The GEM should be installed before launching, if it was suddenly not ready, or died during testing, why then launched without engines or something else?).

            What we have in fact now is that 2 years have passed since the report was made about the readiness of the power plant, about its delivery for installation on the ship. And the ship has already been launched, God knows when it still hasn't reached sea trials. There are some strange rumors that the fourth corps - "Admiral Isakov" will be commissioned earlier than the third. What this means is anyone's guess. Probably, something did not work out well with the first power plant. Maybe, as the commentator writes above, something did not work out during the installation, or maybe something went wrong on bench tests. Surely it is difficult to judge from open sources.

            But why launch a ship without a power plant? Why is this eyewash? Moreover, we are talking not about something there, but about a very expensive and most modern ship of the Russian fleet, which are not enough, which are needed "yesterday", and huge resources were used for the completion and completion of which, including import substitution, for decades. How can you just let it down, I don't understand.

            Maybe Bayard is higher and is mistaken, maybe he is just pumping up, maybe "Golovko" is about to come out for testing, but if it turns out that the fourth building will be completed before the third, it means that there was clearly some big emergency situation. And if everything is as they write about it, then someone very much deserved it for it.

            which design bureau made the first Russian (spoiled) GTDU for 22350 and why can't they do it again in a short time? those. does the chain have to be worked out or is it such a long process?

            The process of production and testing of the power plant, judging by all, is still long.
          4. bayard
            bayard 6 December 2020 19: 37
            0
            I think Alexander has already answered your question. Everything is really so - we hastened to lower the Golovko hull without the power plant in order to free up space on the slipway for laying new hulls. Someone "wise" decided that the power plant would stay afloat belay , although from the very beginning it was clear that the risk exceeds all conceivable norms - no one has ever done this. But ... We decided not to look for easy ways in the ESS.
            The first power plant was delivered for another 1,5 years at the shipyard to be installed on the ship ... and after that there was almost deathly silence, several times were reminded that the first running frigate would be released either at the end of 2020, or, in extreme cases, in the spring of 2021. The last time this was announced about three months ago - running at the beginning of 2021.
            And now the message is that "Golovko" will IN GENERAL stand without a power plant, because the first serial set will go to number 4, and "Golovko" will receive the next power plant after it.
            How will they put it now?
            Maybe they will be driven into the dock with a good bridge crane ... maybe they will come up with something else to justify it ... But what we have at the moment is the rejection of the import substitution program for ship power plants for at least 2 years. For without checking the INSTALLED GEM on the move and accepting it into operation, we can say that it turned out.
            It's too early to talk about it.

            And what happened can not be called other than targeted sabotage.
            And if it were only in shipbuilding ...
          5. silver_roman
            silver_roman 7 December 2020 13: 30
            +1
            And the power plant that was installed in the 18th and theoretically ditched, is somehow different from the one that should go now? And if not, why did you decide to bet on the 4th building?
            Observing what is happening in the USC, thoughts of sabotage come. Only from memory: PD-20, burning Kuzya, is now a power plant ... and if you recall the story with Polyment-Redoubt, then until the main thing was removed, the work stood.
          6. bayard
            bayard 7 December 2020 14: 16
            +1
            Quote: silver_roman
            And the power plant that was installed in the 18th and theoretically ditched, is somehow different from the one that should go now? And if not, why did you decide to bet on the 4th building?

            I think there are no differences. In 2018, the first head unit was commissioned after bench tests. And I had to get on the ship.
            And just before the arrival of the power plant, the Golovko hull was launched ...
            The person who covered this issue on our website has not been heard for more than half a year. But the last thing he reported on this topic was fear for the fate of the proposed installation of the power plant afloat.
            ... The accuracy of the alignment ... this is generally one of the main characteristics of the future ship.
            You could put it in the dock, fix it well, and if there is an overhead crane above the dock, mount it with this crane. In this case, there are also risks of serious errors ... but to carry out installation in the "afloat" position belay ... by the wall fool ... is it with a harbor gander crane or what? wassat
            I can imagine the accuracy and quality of such work.
            Quote: silver_roman
            Why was it decided to put on the 4th building?

            Because it sits on a slipway and can be installed in a normal shipbuilding cycle, with less risk.
            And "Golovko" ... if he was not greatly crippled by attempts to mount the power plant through the anus ... they will be rescued later.
            And that - the unfortunate \ head GEM seems to have turned itself apart on the first tests.
            Quote: silver_roman
            PD-50, which burned Kuzya, is now a power plant ... and if you recall the story with Polyment-Redoubt, then until the main thing was removed, the work was stopped.

            "Polyment-Redut", praise to Ahura-Mazda, still brought to mind. But the USC and citizens \ Mr. \\ Comrade Shoigu have now tightened a new bagpipe - the Zaslon radar for corvettes of the 20380 and 20385 series. The cost of only one radar station is one third of the cost of the ship itself, so far it has not shot down a single target, but it was decided to put on ALL corvettes of these two series. These "gentlemen" are not interested in the cheaper and more affordable radar options.
            Combat readiness ... defense capability ... this is the third thing for them ...
            BUDGET and its development at the forefront.
          7. silver_roman
            silver_roman 7 December 2020 14: 29
            0
            Do I understand correctly that both Zaslon and Polyment are essentially a radar for guiding missiles at a target?
            And if so, why is it impossible to put Polyment-redoubt on corvettes, besides, it seems like either on 20380, or on 20385 they put Polyment-redoubt?
          8. bayard
            bayard 7 December 2020 14: 46
            +2
            For a corvette, this is too "bold", and the stock of missiles on such a small boat is very limited - not justified. Neither cost nor expected effect. Moreover, it is not a fact that "Zaslon" will work out at all - the office dealing with it does not have such experience, it has already spent a lot of time (and a lot of money), and in terms of cost, "Zaslon" is not very different from "Polyment" ...
            This is a question of money - the amount spent on R&D. There, his own person is at the head - non-judgmental and untouchable. The Investigative Committee and the Prosecutor's Office have already tried to arrest him several times, but ... "We are not leaving our own people."
            A corvette is a small ship of the near sea zone, the main sharpening should be on the PLO. And air defense can be moderate, because it has to operate under the cover of its base aviation. It should be INEXPENSIVE and MASSIVE. Based on existing technical solutions.
            But for the sake of a good (!) Budget, these corvettes are again molded into a "wunderwaflu", so to this day there are only a few of them in the ranks, and there is nothing to provide for PLO in the near zone.
            As I say, the issue is not about defense capability, but about the budget and its development.
            The result is not important.
            The process is important.
  • Grits
    Grits 5 December 2020 17: 51
    +1
    Your questions are absolutely correct. Only we will never hear the answers to them.
  • alexmach
    alexmach 5 December 2020 13: 32
    +2
    What happened ?
    And what happened apparently happened that could have happened in the worst case scenario - when trying to install a power plant in unconventional conditions, it was simply ... ditched.

    Hmm ... And this version explains well the conflicting messages about the readiness of the power plant.
    And now ... a new override - the previously supplied power plant is considered by default to be non-existent (and did not exist) and ordered to rejoice in assembling a turbo-diesel bundle on one shaft as a "great breakthrough"

    Just like the classic: The one who controls the present controls the past.
    1. bayard
      bayard 5 December 2020 15: 07
      +3
      Quote: alexmach
      Just like the classic: The one who controls the present controls the past.

      Recently, similar methods and techniques are literally at every step. But the worst thing is that the obvious, albeit concealed stupidity and STUPIDITY, can cover up and not so obvious sabotage.
      And, by the way, the drowning of the floating dock under "Kuznetsov" at the most inopportune moment, may be just from the same series of subversive actions and direct sabotage.
      But this, of course, is conspiracy ...
  • Motorist
    Motorist 6 December 2020 18: 21
    +1
    Quote: bayard
    One wondered why this hull was launched without a power plant just the day before? To install it “afloat” for the first time in the world?

    I want to note that the final alignment and pouring of the foundations of the main engines and main gearboxes does not take place in water, because the bending of the hull is very different afloat and on the slipway (or in the dock). I do not understand and do not share your indignation. request
  • Elturisto
    Elturisto 5 December 2020 20: 31
    -7
    No one has done anything on Saturn, and they are not doing anything :)
  • lucul
    lucul 4 December 2020 19: 00
    +3
    But the fact that for so long our industry has been setting up production of these diesel-gas turbine units is a shame and a shame.

    Yes, we need modern machines and qualified personnel and a desire to create.
    As I understand it, there were no machines in the country, so we had to get them out by roundabout routes.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 4 December 2020 21: 37
      +12
      Quote: lucul
      As I understand it, there were no machines in the country

      Previously, it was not. Bought fake in Japan. Now they have their own. Yuzhtochmash, for example.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 4 December 2020 22: 59
        +7
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Bought fake in Japan.

        And they also enjoyed the trophies of the Second World War. Machine tool construction was not a strong feature of the USSR.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 5 December 2020 01: 43
          +13
          Quote: Dart2027
          And they also enjoyed the trophies of the Second World War. Machine tool construction was not a strong feature of the USSR.
          And this also happened. But now the situation is slowly but changing in the right direction:
          1. The production of metalworking equipment is located at the Sasovsky plants in the Ryazan region. A Russian-Taiwanese joint venture has been established here, 51% of which belongs to the Baltic Industrial Company, and 49% belongs to Buffalo Machinery.
          The new high-precision 5-axis machining centers AXILE will be produced in accordance with the Industry 4.0 production concept.

          2. The second stage of the large machine-tool production "StankoMashStroy" was opened in Penza. The first stage was opened 4 years ago, Here begins the production of turning and milling equipment with CNC, including machining centers. In particular, the first in Russia serial production of milling vertical machining centers with a construction of one-piece sliding guides. The production volume of such centers is up to 300 per year.
          3. Lipetsk machine-tool enterprise - completely Russian machines are made here. LSP specializes in the production of grinding equipment, but also manufactures other metalworking machines, for example, milling machines. A number of grinding machines are not produced by anyone else in Russia, for example, the 3L10 cylindrical grinding machine in the "C" design. (The letter "C" here means the highest accuracy class). The company has its own design bureau, where both new models of machine tools and modifications to the requirements of a specific customer are developed. The design is fully digital, using the Russian software "Compass".
          4. Gantry thermal cutting machines ULTRATHERM-2.0. Production is in progress
          by specialists of the SPIKOM Group of Companies. A thermal cutting machine ULTRATHERM MTRP-20120 is installed here, machines for plasma and gas cutting of metal of the ULTRATHERM, ULTRACUT and ULTRATUBE series are made, which are produced by SPIKOMENERGO LLC, Barnaul.
          5. In September 2015, the Tver Machine-Tool Plant began production of its first own TS1625FZ CNC lathes and FS65MFZ milling machines. In 2016, the first lathe of the enterprise TS1625FZ was modernized, the production of vertical machining centers FS85MF3 and FS110MF3 began. In 2017, the plant has already produced 102 turning and milling machines. According to the Association "Stankoinstrument", the Tver Machine Tool Plant takes the 2nd place in the country in terms of the number of machines produced in the segment of CNC turning and milling machines, second only to the Ulyanovsk Machine Tool Plant.
          In total, in 2017, according to Stankoinstrument's data, 987 CNC lathes and milling machines were produced in Russia, the production of TS16K20F3 lathes (project K20), TS16A20F3 (project A20), TS1640F3 / 1500 (project K40), TS1720F4 began. FS130 production began, FP80.
          In 2018, the plant switches to work in 2 shifts. During the year, 143 machines were shipped, including 85 turning and 58 milling machining centers. A swivel rotary table is installed on the FS110MF5 milling centers, which allows for five-axis machining of parts.
          In 2019, TSZ produced 268 CNC machines. The production of vertical machining centers MFC650, portal milling machines FP160MF4, horizontal milling machines FG40MF4:

          One could enumerate further, but I think this is enough.
          1. 210ox
            210ox 5 December 2020 04: 57
            +2
            Is the plant preserved in Ulyanovsk? As far as I know, there is a trading house selling German machine tools. Although YES-UZTM the song was once.
          2. mmaxx
            mmaxx 5 December 2020 06: 02
            +2
            It's all good. But our machines absolutely do not match the German ones in performance. And this is the price of the product. Managers lay down labor intensity based on the performance of modern machines, and then you have to buy ours and everyone ends up in the span. A reduction in the number, optimization and increase in profits have already been drawn. Capitalism ..
          3. Dart2027
            Dart2027 5 December 2020 06: 32
            +5
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            And this also happened. But now the situation is slowly but changing in the right direction

            This is what we are talking about - not everything was good in the USSR, and now everything is not bad.
          4. lucul
            lucul 5 December 2020 09: 16
            -5
            One could enumerate further, but I think this is enough.

            Putin ruined everything))))
        2. 72jora72
          72jora72 5 December 2020 05: 11
          +6
          Bought fake in Japan.

          And they also enjoyed the trophies of the Second World War. Machine tool construction was not a strong feature of the USSR.
          The Bolsheviks got a good position in mechanical engineering. Tsarist Russia ranked 5th in the world. Second only to the USA, UK, Germany and Belgium.
          Despite the defeat in the First World War and the Civil War, 1925 Russia still ranked 5th in the world. In 1938, an unprecedented record was recorded - the USSR moved up to second place, displacing England and even Germany in machine-building production. (the growth of the military industry 2 times made itself felt) After the war, Germany was destroyed to zero, but Soviet engineering reduced its share in world engineering, despite the export of German machine tools too. Great Britain came in second. Then Great Britain began to disintegrate, the USSR again took second place.
          In 1953, the Union regains its pre-war second place after the USA. England is still in the list of leaders in car production - in third place.
          Late 50s - early 60s - the heyday of the machine building of the USSR in comparison with other countries. The share in world production is maximal. But by 1970, Germany almost caught up with the USSR in terms of the total production of cars, and Japan completely overtook and pushed it to third place. In 3, after a landslide drop in the production share of the United States (one and a half times), the USSR again rose to second place, overtaking Germany and Japan. The situation persists in 1975. But in 1980 Japan was again ahead of the Union. After 1985 years, the machine tool industry was destroyed.
          1. Maikcg
            Maikcg 5 December 2020 06: 05
            +5
            Only now we must not forget what kind of machine-tool industry in the USSR was, when it is necessary to drive the plan to the birthday of the world proletariat and tyda. The quantity can and has been large, with quality problems. Especially with the products of the fraternal southern republics, marriage in marriage and marriage drives.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 5 December 2020 12: 01
            +2
            Quote: 72jora72
            In 1938, an unprecedented record was recorded - the USSR moved up to second place, displacing England and even Germany in machine-building production. (the growth of the military industry by 2 times made itself felt)

            100 files won't replace a milling machine. This I mean that the USSR has moved to second place due to the shaft of simple products. And as soon as it came up about something more complicated, they had to bow to the bourgeoisie.
            Here is a good example of the development of machine tool building in the USSR: STZ's application for machine tools for organizing the production of T-34. Of the 253 machines specified in the application, 107 were imported:
            ... among those ordered by the Stalingrad Tank Plant as necessary for the production of T-34 machines, there were:
            - screw-cutting “Heydsireich and Garbeck” 13 pcs., “Beringer” 11 pcs., “Dr. Brown” 1 pc .;
            - turning and rotary "Niles" 35 pcs .;
            - turning and multi-cutting “Guishold” 11 pcs .;
            - revolving "Heinemann" 18 pcs .;
            - Dental "Maag" 2 pcs.;
            - gearshakers “Reinecker” 6 pcs., “Lorenz” 3 pcs., “Pfauter” 1 pc.;
            - universal grinding "Schmalz" - 1 pc .;
            - intra-grinding "Wotan" 1 pc .;
            - slot grinding “F. Werner "3 pcs.;
            - grinding “Glisson” 1 pc.
            © Ulanov / Shein
      2. 210ox
        210ox 5 December 2020 04: 49
        0
        Is this the one in Azov? And Didenko as a director? So they do not produce machines, but are engaged in the repair and manufacture of shafts. By the way, the reviews about them are not good. In Krasnodar, at the former "Sedin", they are trying to make piece-by-piece machines with imported components.
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 11: 06
      -5
      Quote: lucul
      qualified personnel and desire to create

      Nobody wants to work like that, especially young personnel and especially their heads.
      1. lucul
        lucul 5 December 2020 11: 17
        +1
        Nobody wants to work like that, especially young personnel and especially their heads.

        Maybe they just don't want to pay? )))
        What is the salary of an employee in the defense industry and how much is in Gazprom? )))
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 11: 24
          -5
          Quote: lucul
          Maybe they just don't want to pay? )))

          Creativity, including technical, is a vocation.
          Those who want to make money, let them go into business.
          1. lucul
            lucul 5 December 2020 11: 48
            +3
            Creativity, including technical, is a vocation.
            Those who want to make money, let them go into business.

            If a man is single, then he is, and if he is married, then finances immediately come to the fore)))
            1. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 12: 02
              -7
              Quote: lucul
              If a man is single, then he is, and if he is married, then finances immediately come to the fore)))

              1. A scientist, an engineer and even a worker in a shop is not necessarily a man. Let the female part of the engineering and technical staff be kept by husbands who are businessmen, and the male part by business women. The main thing is not to allow engineers to marry among themselves, as well as with doctors and teachers.
              2. Or such an option for workers / workers of defense enterprises is to love the Motherland and not cheat on it with a woman / man, ie. do not start a family.
          2. bk0010
            bk0010 5 December 2020 14: 51
            +3
            Quote: Narak-zempo
            Creativity, including technical, is a vocation.
            Those who want to make money, let them go into business.
            Congratulations, you left the country without inventors. The doctors were told the same way, and when they began to leave in whole groups, they immediately began to scream about their betrayal, the Hippocratic oath and the like.
            1. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 15: 03
              -11%
              Quote: bk0010
              The doctors were told the same way, and when they began to leave in whole groups, they immediately began to scream about their betrayal, the Hippocratic oath and the like.

              Doctors are obligated people. Not only military, but also in general to the whole circle are obliged, and disinterestedly. Otherwise, it is no longer a doctor, but a ratchet. Leave - so you need to attach to honey. foundations.
              By the way, they also don't create surplus value - what to pay for? Behind help don't get paid.
              Let them do self-sufficiency in their free time.
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 5 December 2020 18: 00
                +4
                Quote: Narak-zempo
                Leave - so you need to attach to honey. foundations.

                serfs were found. Maybe you are in handcuffs and to work?
        2. bk0010
          bk0010 5 December 2020 14: 49
          +1
          Quote: lucul
          What is the salary of an employee in the defense industry and how much is in Gazprom? )))
          In Gazprom, not the smallest bosses and above earn decent money. The income of ordinary workers is rather modest.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 14: 53
            -8
            Quote: bk0010
            In Gazprom, not the smallest bosses and above earn decent money. The income of ordinary workers is rather modest.

            Right.
            To twist the nuts is not to turn around with financial flows.
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 5 December 2020 14: 57
              +1
              You will overlook Gazprom's indicators: from those who turn over financial flows, it is necessary to take fines and compensation for damage, and not pay big salaries. You can't trust them and the nuts - they screw up.
              1. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 15: 09
                -9
                Quote: bk0010
                You will overlook Gazprom's indicators: from those who turn over financial flows, it is necessary to take fines and compensation for damage, and not pay big salaries. You can't trust them and the nuts - they screw up.

                It doesn't matter how, it is important what they turn, the streams are in your hands - you and the cards in your hands, how to distribute them. And if you twist the nuts, then you only have a thirty-key on the head, so that he knows the place.
                1. bk0010
                  bk0010 5 December 2020 15: 15
                  +1
                  Troll fat, even fat drips from the monitor.
                2. Narak-zempo
                  Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 15: 24
                  -8
                  Quote: bk0010
                  Troll fat, even fat drips from the monitor.

                  I love fast food.
                  And fast, and satisfying, and without interruption from work.
                  It gets boring to stare at the microscope all day.
  • Sofa
    Sofa 19 February 2021 13: 32
    +1
    7 years!!!!! And the second only by December, something for a long time and quickly, if adjusted.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 23 February 2021 18: 40
    +2
    The case when the bureaucracy is not able to replay political differences. And nevertheless, you will first have to annul a mountain of international treaties and contracts, and then conclude new ones. We will not discuss how quickly this is done in Russia. I just want to express my wish that Admiral Golovko will still be put into operation at least by the end of 2022.


    How can you name a situation when the timing of the construction of an engine is determined not by design developments or technological solutions, but by paperwork? Is it the progress of our way of life, building, society? No, this is an obvious restraint of movement forward. In order to start building engines, do you need to sign and rewrite papers for YEARS? What situation could be more dull and hopeless.
    Next.

    Indeed, a copy of the old Soviet engine is better.


    it is that the Saturn plant that makes aviation and gas-pumping turbines cannot for YEARS from 12g. make a good ship's gas turbine plant !? I don’t believe in it, there’s something wrong. Certainly there are restraining reasons NOT of a natural nature.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 4 December 2020 18: 21
    -5
    But you, liberst hoopoes, if only to buy everything abroad, to force at least something to do it yourself, can only be under the threat of execution .. You only know how to steal well. Unlike the Soviet Union.
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 4 December 2020 18: 32
      +37
      For paul3390, I will explain that in central Russia, villages are without gas and often without normal hospitals, because during the Soviet era, gas was supplied and new hospitals were built for ragul and the Baltic tigers, which all these ungrateful creatures forgot about. But now there will be no more such errors, I hope. And the ship's turbines will be Russian.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 4 December 2020 21: 34
        +7
        Mom lives in a village in Central Russia, Oryol Region, gas was installed in 1999.
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 5 December 2020 06: 04
          +5
          And in Siberia, where this gas is produced, there is no gas in the villages.
          1. fiberboard
            fiberboard 5 December 2020 08: 10
            +2
            How many people live in Siberia? If you pull to each village, then no money will be enough. We have heaps of coal here, so we heat them, cheaper. And they will bring gas for cooking.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 5 December 2020 10: 57
              +2
              Such things cannot be measured by economics. Yes, you can't do everything in one day.
              But then the Bolsheviks proclaimed electrification. And they did. And in an economic way, nothing would have been for another 100 years. Infrastructure is such a thing that you can't count the emissions right away. And the effect is visible.
              Yes, what are we talking about! The illiterate Genghis Khan understood the importance of roads and communications. Everything worked like a clock. Nobody tried to look for a monetary benefit. You have to understand that there are things without which life is impossible. If it is necessary, then you just need to take it and do it.
              1. Maikcg
                Maikcg 5 December 2020 13: 14
                +3
                >> Yes, you can't do everything in one day.

                Here it is. By the way, the Bolsheviks did gasification, but for some reason only not in the RSFSR. And the capitalists do it slowly, not in one day. Red macaques like to reproach they say that GDP has lifted Russia from its knees for 20 years, and Comrade Stalin has already managed to industrialize in the same period of time, but you will ask this, but were there commissars in dusty helmets at the GDP, repression of enemies of the people, hunger, one pick for three, the law on three spikelets :) is he personally ready to go to the slaughter or to the machine for food in the name of a brighter future ... he will hide his iPhone and hum something incomprehensible thread that will be registered, but he will not go to war for Rotenberg with Prigozhin.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 6 December 2020 05: 59
                  0
                  Why are you all so nervous? One Stalin-Lenin is to blame for everything, the other is Putin and even Rotenberg.
                  All history is ours. And our life. You have to work yourself.
                  And history, it is in order not to do stupid things now. Although this is useless for most.
              2. fiberboard
                fiberboard 6 December 2020 06: 02
                -1
                Why can't you measure the economy then? Money, there is money. I also agree that large cities lying along the Trans-Siberian Railway and their satellites can be gasified, and then. Stretching a pipeline from Krasnoyarsk to Minusinskaya and Abakan? Another 500 km through the taiga, mountains and steppes. And then through the villages, between which 20-30-50 km. They sat down much less than in central Russia. Next is Tyva. It is necessary to pull through the Sayan ridges. The population of the republic is 300000, the village is far from the village, and the villages are small. The population will not get dirty with payment for gas, they do not pay for electricity. Moreover, the south of the Krasnoyarsk Territory, Khakassia and Tuva are located on thick coal seams. It is easier to introduce a social program to provide the population with coal. Otherwise, the state will not have enough money. In Khakassia and the Krasnoyarsk Territory, coal is cheap, there are many beneficiaries, the settlements on whose lands there are open-pit mines are provided with a certain rate of coal for free. In Tuva it is expensive, 4000-5000 per ton. But there, local officials, members of the United Russia Party, and faithful companions of the nullified one, are running the show.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 6 December 2020 06: 31
                  +1
                  I write in Russian in white: where they get it. That is, there is no gas even near the places where they are producing. That is, the pipe just goes by.
          2. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 5 December 2020 11: 12
            -10%
            Quote: mmaxx
            And in Siberia, where this gas is produced, there is no gas in the villages.

            Yeah, pull tens of kilometers of pipe to each village "Rotten Corners" with three houses? This is a net loss. I would cut off the electricity for them - after all, it also does not pay off, but then there is a state need for the TV to work. However, they themselves successfully cut off, reeling wires in order to pass in nonferrous metal and get drunk.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 5 December 2020 12: 43
              +2
              A timid response from a modern owner. I do not need, but would
              D l O let him die. Only then will they cut you off. As in the 17th.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 4 December 2020 18: 23
    +1
    there were Russians (as in Rybinsk) and those Russians would not have let the raguli descend ............................. and the savings on only one heating in Nikolaev in comparison with Severodvinsk has already paid off. and then from 1992 that economy flew into the donut hole.
  • figwam
    figwam 4 December 2020 18: 36
    +8
    Finally, the domestic flame engine will revive the production of frigates.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 4 December 2020 18: 18
    -6
    Indeed, the dancing of savages on the remains of the ancient high-tech civilization of the gods - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics ..
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 4 December 2020 18: 25
      +1
      Quote: paul3390
      on the remains of an ancient high-tech civilization of the gods

      Well, where are your gods?
      1. Stena
        Stena 4 December 2020 18: 49
        +7
        Quote: Dart2027
        Well, where are your gods?

        He would first find the king in his head, and only then think about something else.
        Here in our yard there are 2 small dogs running around and yapping at everyone. I call them there - yapping! They react so hard to every action of people - they bark so loudly. And people calmly do their business and do not pay attention to barking. So here - yapping, in its pure form, well, what can you take ...
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 5 December 2020 17: 22
          -5
          Take care of yourself rotten liberastina .. What will you do when your beloved guarantor finally expires the country. In the West, nobody fucking needs you, here too ..
          1. Stena
            Stena 5 December 2020 17: 41
            +3
            Quote: paul3390
            Take care of yourself rotten liberastina .. What will you do when your beloved guarantor finally expires the country. In the West, nobody fucking needs you, here too ..

            Quote: Stena
            And people calmly do their business and do not pay attention to barking. So here - yapping, in its pure form, well, what can you take ...
      2. ihnovich990
        ihnovich990 5 December 2020 01: 02
        +2
        Our gods are already in the grave: Korolyov, Yangel, Alexandrov, Kuznetsov, Raspletin, ... and hundreds of others. Remained the Rogozins, Chubais, Rotenbergs, and so: all sorts of darts.
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 5 December 2020 06: 05
          -1
          What is really there about Rotenberg? Did he do something wrong? What he undertakes, he does.
    2. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 4 December 2020 20: 27
      -6
      "That's really really - the dancing of the savages on the remains of the ancient high-tech civilization of the gods - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" - purely for reference - in the USSR, unified diesel-gas turbine units of this dimension were not made. Nobody undertook to master the gearbox. I'm not a big fan of modern Russia, but the fact remains that our designers were able to do what they could not in the USSR. True, the Ukrainians made such a reducer earlier.
      1. Rubi0
        Rubi0 4 December 2020 23: 42
        -1
        Ukrainians, don't you laugh? Since the Russian engineers were the chief designers, they did it, and in Nikolaev, where you can not spit, there are people from central Russia.
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 5 December 2020 06: 09
          +5
          Nikolaev was the industrial center of the empire. Everyone who could and became a Ukrainian backwater left. The more ragoulias arrived, the more backward the city becomes and turns into a small town. The feeling that when somewhere the language becomes Ukrainian (in modern modification) everything happens.
        2. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 5 December 2020 18: 25
          0
          Those who are at war with the LPNR almost entirely speak and think in Russian. That does not prevent them from being Ukrainians and Bandera.
    3. Ajevgenij
      Ajevgenij 5 December 2020 16: 57
      0
      Although it sounds bravura, by and large, yes ...
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 4 December 2020 18: 18
    0
    Is it unrealistic to pull up other related enterprises to create engines and gearboxes? After all, these are jobs, and the ability to build warships with virtually no delay. And then 2 sets a year, this is a mockery of the fleet, an imitation of its creation!
    1. Brodyaga19
      Brodyaga19 4 December 2020 21: 52
      +10
      In addition to enterprises, we need specialists, technologies, equipment, competencies. And where to get them? You can still buy equipment somehow, but the rest ... Quickly only flies ... fall into cutlets!
    2. Alex777
      Alex777 4 December 2020 23: 26
      +2
      Is it unrealistic to pull up other related enterprises to create engines and gearboxes?

      First, calculate how many frigates 22350 MO is going to order. Multiply by 2.
      Then you will understand that it makes no sense to start the All-Russian Komsomol construction for the sake of so many installations. hi
  • antivirus
    antivirus 4 December 2020 18: 22
    -4
    these engines are needed not just like air, but were needed yesterday.

    - air is needed both yesterday and tomorrow.

    like this up the ladder - slowly to their own, in everything 100%, in terms of competencies, stages, aircraft carriers.
    Moremans consider your own terms of delivery of new aircraft carriers.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 4 December 2020 18: 28
    +12
    It's hard to catch up !!! Even ourselves as a sample of the USSR in the 80s or even 70s.

    -----
    But it is better than to leave unfinished frigates / corvettes of the Russian Navy at the wall for ten years.
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 4 December 2020 23: 04
      +8
      Well, no matter how 22350 is not the 70s or 80s, the diesel-gas turbine unit is still a technique in complexity, and the ship itself is also incomparable with anything that was before.
      1. ihnovich990
        ihnovich990 5 December 2020 01: 05
        0
        I beg your pardon, what's so complicated about it?
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 5 December 2020 01: 07
          +9
          Gearboxes providing simultaneous operation on the shaft line of a diesel engine and a gas turbine
  • Nikolay Ivanov_5
    Nikolay Ivanov_5 4 December 2020 18: 28
    +11
    Well done! Keep it up!!! good
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 4 December 2020 18: 45
    +10
    Yes, our shipbuilders solved a serious problem, now the construction of frigates will go faster.

    Yes, we lost time, but now we are building engines for ships ourselves and the money that is paid for them remains in Russia. In the future, we will only benefit from this.

    And Ukraine has lost sales for its engines represented by Russia. And all because of the Maidan. I don’t know if they will find new customers, but it will not be easy for them to do it.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 4 December 2020 18: 55
    0
    very good, but preferably without Chinese spare parts, but I have no doubt that at least one bolt is made in China
  • senima56
    senima56 4 December 2020 18: 58
    +2
    "The main thing is that in Rybinsk they can actually build them not by the piece, but in series. Since these engines are needed not just like air, but were needed yesterday." That's it! Let's get into the series soon!
  • Grievous
    Grievous 4 December 2020 19: 23
    -1
    And if tomorrow is war?
  • Andre___86
    Andre___86 4 December 2020 19: 23
    0
    No rest on them ...
  • sevryuk
    sevryuk 4 December 2020 19: 24
    +2
    Quote: Bashkirkhan
    And all because under Khrushchev the communists made Nikolaev the center of ship turbine building in Soviet Ukraine. They built an industry for the Raguli, instead of building in Rybinsk.

    And not under Yeltsin gave the Ukrainian SSR to the collective West and collective zapadentsy (Ragul)?
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 4 December 2020 19: 47
      +6
      Quote: sevryuk
      And not under Yeltsin gave the Ukrainian SSR to the collective West and collective zapadentsy (Ragul)?

      Nominally, at the time of the Belovezhsky conspiracy, Humpbacked was the prezik.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 4 December 2020 20: 16
    +2
    "This is due to the fact that it is necessary to renegotiate a bunch of agreements and contracts, since the supplier of engines for Admiral Golovko is still legally considered ZAO Turborus, a Russian-Ukrainian joint venture that includes the well-known NPO Saturn and GP NPKG "Zorya" - "Mashproekt" from Ukraine. "
    This is also due to the conversion of the CD to the ship. And the military bureaucracy in peacetime is also that bureaucracy.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 4 December 2020 20: 45
    -2
    Quote: Bashkirkhan
    this is a real breakthrough.

    I want to fix it. Given the implementation time and date, this is not a breakout, but a slow creep.
    Plus, the budget is daunting too. A breakthrough will be if they can quickly establish mass production and with good performance and quality and design development.
    In the meantime, the process is going slower than in the pre-war USSR and the result still needs to be checked.
    A real breakthrough will come if the neighbors are interested in buying these engines, as a good alternative to what is on the market, both from China and from Germany. This is far from the case today.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 4 December 2020 20: 51
      +5
      Quote: yehat2
      In the meantime, the process is going slower than in the pre-war USSR

      Then the technique was simpler.
      1. Alf
        Alf 4 December 2020 21: 22
        -1
        Quote: Dart2027
        Quote: yehat2
        In the meantime, the process is going slower than in the pre-war USSR

        Then the technique was simpler.

        Then Will was stronger and they were responsible.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 4 December 2020 23: 00
          +7
          Quote: Alf
          Then Will was stronger and

          and the shipbuilding program was disrupted despite the shootings.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 5 December 2020 12: 06
            +4
            Quote: Dart2027

            and the shipbuilding program was disrupted despite the shootings.

            ... and purchases in the West. Turbines for EM had to be bought in Britain - the domestic industry could not issue a plan. GTZA for the head LK pr. 23 - ordered in Switzerland. smile
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 6 December 2020 22: 24
        0
        Yes? you say the technique was simpler for a population with an average of 3 classes of education?
        And how was the diesel engine for T34 put into production under those conditions?
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 6 December 2020 22: 42
          0
          Quote: yehat2
          for a population with an average of 3 classes of education

          In the late 30s? How then did they turn on the machines at all?
  • nznz
    nznz 4 December 2020 20: 54
    0
    while the missiles are there, the rest is necessary, but not so tragic ..
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 4 December 2020 22: 34
    +2
    well done in Rybinsk
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 4 December 2020 22: 55
      +4
      Star gear in St. Petersburg.
  • timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 4 December 2020 23: 01
    +12
    Yes, this is great news, one of the few concerning the Navy. And 22350 itself is a saving success for us. If the Ministry of Defense had not pressed this project, and the Navy would have come to an end, without options. And so there are chances.

    There are two minuses here - the first is the Gear Star, which does everything very slowly and mows up very much, and not because it cannot, but because there is still a mess there. But there are chances that they will accelerate in the future. While theoretical. But there is.

    The second one is the rats from the Almaz Central Design Bureau, Zaslon and the Military-Industrial Commission, which squeak, but push corvette 20386. And his 6РП gearbox is done at the same capacities at which P055.

    That is, it will be necessary to choose either 20386 or 22350. For some time the question of what will be chosen was open, our saboteurs have a lot of power.
    But then goodness won, God forbid, that forever.
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 5 December 2020 02: 06
    +8
    Evil tongues claim that these are full-fledged clones of Ukrainian M90F


    The only engine that had such a code M90F was not a GTE, but an aircraft engine of the early forties, which has not been produced since.
    If we are talking about the M90FR, then it is a completely Russian gas turbine engine that has never been produced in Ukraine. In Ukraine, within the framework of the Russian-Ukrainian joint venture "Turborus", a gearbox (a kind of analogue of an automobile gearbox) was made for this Russian engine. replaced with their own.

    And here I would like to note the following: well, a clone of a Soviet-made Ukrainian-made engine.


    there are no clones whose power and efficiency are higher than the original. It would be nice to be a little "in the material".
    And what engines and what has Russia replaced with can be seen from the table below, at the same time comparing the efficiency and power of Russian and Ukrainian gas turbine engines.
    1. Garris199
      Garris199 6 December 2020 02: 53
      0
      Do I understand correctly that without cooperation with Saturn, Zorya cannot produce a complete set (for setting the ship on the move)?
      1. lopvlad
        lopvlad 7 December 2020 00: 27
        0
        Why can it, but their complete set or power plant (engine + gearbox) M27 (14.7 megawatts) will be weaker than the Russian M55P (20.2 megawatts) due to the fact that Russia has a more powerful M90FR engine.
        1. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl 9 December 2020 03: 07
          -3
          Quote: lopvlad
          Why can it, but their complete set or power plant (engine + gearbox) M27 (14.7 megawatts) will be weaker than the Russian M55P (20.2 megawatts) due to the fact that Russia has a more powerful M90FR engine.
          my god, yes you messed up something (!!) right (!!)

          The propulsion system is a two-shaft gas-gas turbine plant (GGTU) of the COGAG type M7N1, consisting of two afterburner gas turbine engines (GTE) DT-59 manufactured by GP NPKG "Zorya" - "Mashproekt" (Ukraine) with a capacity of 22000 hp. and two cruise GTEs of economic speed DS-71 produced by SE NPKG Zorya - Mashproekt (Ukraine) with a capacity of 8450 hp each, working through complex gearboxes on two shafts and two fixed-pitch propellers (FPP). The production of propellers for a series of frigates for the Russian Navy is carried out at the Baltic Shipyard (St. Petersburg).
          Maximum power of the GEM - 2 x 30450 hp
          .... (from - http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-163.html) This is about 11356 R / M (!!), yes , and no M90FR, with its power of 27200 hp, is not even close to needed there (!!)... No. . hi
          1. lopvlad
            lopvlad 9 December 2020 04: 47
            -1
            Quote: Vl Nemchinov
            This is about 11356


            where is it you have found a mention of project 11356.
    2. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 9 December 2020 02: 54
      -3
      Quote: lopvlad
      If we are talking about M90FR, then it is a completely Russian gas turbine engine that has never been produced in Ukraine.
      however, this can hardly be called an indisputable statement, can you ?! For example, I came across the opinion that the Russian M90FR really "my" (for manufacturing and assembly) gas turbine engine, but in fact, all the same "clone" (copy) Ukrainian MA91 embodied in metal and industrially manufactured by Nikolaevskiy "Zorya-Mashproekt", long before its development by "Saturn" ... ?! Then this engine (already in serial production) began to be marked as UGT25000... (!)... and then, if you set a goal, then it will not be difficult for you to find information that, for example, China, before starting your grandiose shipbuilding programs (in particular for the construction of EM (!) type first 052Dand later the type 055 !!!), first organized licensed production of OWN gas turbine engines on the territory of his country, - QC280 (i.e. the same UGT25000) with a capacity of 27500 hp, and thus initially solved my problems !!!
      concerning -
      Quote: lopvlad
      there are no clones whose power and efficiency are higher than the original. It would be nice to be a little "in the material".
      then don't get so excited (!)... but it seems to me there is NOT VERY Lucky Clones (to put it mildly), and looking closely at the table given by you ...(!)
      Quote: lopvlad
      And what engines and what did Russia replace ?! can be seen from the table below, at the same time comparing the efficiency and power of Russian and Ukrainian gas turbine engines.
      Since it's hard for me to name (and something tells me that it will not be easy for you either !!!) those modern Russian ships where the ones given in the table would be used "their" analogues of M70FRU-2, or M70FRU .... ?! ?!which is very alarming and as if speaks about their quality (!).... Otherwise, there were simply no problems with the continuation of the 11356 R / M series (as for М7Н1) (!), is not it ?! As well as your analogue М090 (!) ...?!... Judge for yourself if he was a really reliable and mastered engineproduced in the Russian Federation (!), but could there have been problems with refurbishment of the same BOD 1155 (!), of which three or four "froze" ?! Could (even in principle) is questioned and expediency, the question of "serial and urgent modernization" following the example of "Marshal Shaposhnikov", all other BOD 1155 ?! Try to answer this question yourself.... Only honestly (!). what hi
      1. lopvlad
        lopvlad 9 December 2020 04: 59
        0
        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
        For example, I came across the opinion that the Russian M90FR


        we OBS (one woman said) do not discuss but only dry numbers and confirmed facts.

        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
        "their" analogues M70FRU-2, or M70FRU


        what analogs are we talking about because Ukraine does not produce neither M70FRU-2 nor M70FRU and has never produced it.


        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
        As well as your analogue М090 (!) ...?! ...


        again this nonsense.
        1. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl 9 December 2020 11: 29
          0
          Quote: lopvlad
          we do not discuss OBS (one woman said) but only dry numbers and confirmed facts.
          ?! tell me, but the table above (where the M70 FRU-2 turbine of the M35 power unit is supposedly a replacement /an alternative UGT6000 i.e. DP71 / DM71, and accordingly M70FRU by replacing D090 from UGT15000) for the M27 /M7N1 .... not you brought ?!... -
          Quote: lopvlad
          where is it you have me mentioning the project 11356 found.
          ... ?!. belay - and where is used M7N1 ?! ... it seemed ?! -
          Quote: lopvlad
          again this nonsense.
          ? !! probably it was not you who wrote it, -
          Quote: lopvlad
          And what engines and what has Russia replaced with can be seen from the table below, at the same time comparing the efficiency and power of Russian and Ukrainian gas turbine engines.
          ?!
          there was an interesting question for you, -
          Quote: Garris199
          Do I understand correctly that without cooperation with Saturn, Zorya cannot produce a complete set (for setting the ship on the move)?
          ... which is most likely exactly the opposite (!!)... and your answer to it, -
          Quote: lopvlad
          Why can, but their complete set or power plant (engine + gearbox) M27 (14.7 megawatts) will be weaker than the Russian M55P processes (20.2 megawatts) due to the fact that Russia has a more powerful M90FR engine.
          where did you start comparing ABSOLUTELY different "weight categories" GTA, for different classes of ships ... ?! . winked I don’t know, intentionally or not knowingly .. repeat
          1. Voenmeh
            Voenmeh 10 December 2020 10: 20
            0
            "What is most likely exactly the opposite (!!). And your answer to it," and that Saturn - will not be able to independently produce ship gas turbine installations? Your dubious statement ....)))
      2. Voenmeh
        Voenmeh 10 December 2020 10: 17
        0
        1. "Oh, don't get excited so much (!) ..., but it seems to me there are NOT VERY successful clones (to put it mildly), and after looking closely at the table given by you ... (!)" - what is wrong in the efficiency table?
        1. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl 10 December 2020 12: 53
          0
          Quote: Voenmeh
          ... and looking closely at the table given by you ... (!) "- what is wrong in the efficiency table?
          on the table (as in the brochure) the ships do not go (!!!). If you can give an example of the type of a naval ship, where the M70 FRU-2 or M70 FRU are installedI'll be glad to take my words back (!)... But what is today, there are no such ships in the Navy, suggests that for real, they are still not brought to mind (!)... And this is sad, but true. And victorious reports on the topic of "their own turbines" (emerged from the dependence of "Zorya-Mashproekt"), and so on. and so on, regularly since 2016 ... There are only "plans and talks about" Zubrs ".... but not a single one built today on such" Zubr "turbines, which would have recently been handed over to the fleet, NO !!!
          Quote: Voenmeh
          and that Saturn will not be able to independently produce ship gas turbine installations?
          I hope that in time I can. And quickly and efficiently. But so far, in fact, only the M90 ​​FR ... i.e. only one type of GTE (!)... And with the rhythmic production of gearboxes for them, and even more slowly ...
  • Kara
    Kara 5 December 2020 09: 28
    +13
    clone of a Ukrainian-made Soviet-made engine

    The development is Soviet, it means ours. Surely something was finalized.
  • Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod 5 December 2020 13: 47
    0
    Well, then it is necessary to lay new 22350 at Yantar and at the Baltic plant. Need to faster, faster ...
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 6 December 2020 02: 07
      0
      there are already 6 of them under construction and 2 more are planned for laying. in total there will be 10. Then God forbid they go 22350m.
      1. Connor MacLeod
        Connor MacLeod 6 December 2020 03: 29
        0
        They are building only at the Severnaya Verf, it would be better if the orders were divided into several factories, it would be faster.
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 7 December 2020 13: 17
          0
          It would be better if it is better, but the technology is not easily transferred. This is not just knowledge, this is a technical chain, with all the assembly elements, etc. In general, an extremely difficult thing. even transferring it to the plant, where all this can be raised, the construction process will drag on for lack of experience. This was already like roofing felts on Zelenodolsk, or on Amur, when they were given the construction of corvettes. They mastered it for a long time, but of course they did it with a creak.
  • silver_roman
    silver_roman 6 December 2020 02: 06
    0
    This is great news.
    By the way, I am 500% sure that at Zora, as they were in deep sadness, they remain there.
    Do not confuse the production workers and the groveling rotten politicians are coming out.
  • Alexey Bobrin
    Alexey Bobrin 6 December 2020 05: 27
    0
    The story with the Chinese armored personnel carriers, which they delivered to Gabon, ended with urgent early overhauls with original decisions to return the products back to the supplier, if memory serves. The armored personnel carrier itself is a tempting price, and repairs are expensive. So they asked the Chinese to take them back.
  • _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 6 December 2020 10: 34
    0
    And nevertheless, you will first have to annul a mountain of international treaties and contracts, and then conclude new ones.
    and during these two and a half years it was impossible to re-register? we make the engines ourselves in an emergency, having invested a lot of money in it and we ourselves do not reissue the contract, it seems like some kind of nonsense
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 6 December 2020 11: 01
    0
    Quote: zwlad
    Here. Again, Putin is to blame.


    Yes, I'm sorry. And it is the current President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin who is to blame !!!
    And he is guilty to the same extent and for the same basic reasons that the sovereign-emperor Nicholas II is guilty for the death of our fleet in Tsushima !!!
    The volume of Putin's power, in my opinion, greatly exceeds that of Nicholas II. Putin has been in power for about 20 years !!!
    Therefore, it is in Putin that full responsibility lies for the built system of power, for the negligence and mediocrity of officials, many of whom he also appointed, for corruption, for the inaction of the law !!!
    Yes, Putin is to blame !!!
    1. Salty
      Salty 6 December 2020 11: 04
      -1
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      Yes, Putin is to blame !!!

      Amen laughing
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 7 December 2020 22: 21
      0
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      Yes, Putin is to blame

      you greatly overestimate the boundaries of power and Putin and Nikki # 2
  • igorra
    igorra 6 December 2020 13: 32
    0
    I hope that from the metal that did not go to the engines, the devils will pour pans for all Svidomo.
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 9 December 2020 03: 07
    0
    Well, if they also don’t smoke, as on Kuznetsov, then it’s as if all NATO will scatter in the corners
  • clerk
    clerk 27 January 2021 13: 53
    0
    It is very strange that the article did not contain the howl on duty about "the theft of Putin and his gang." : D
  • Andrey1903
    Andrey1903 18 February 2021 09: 20
    0
    Our car engines cannot build normal ones, but here ship engines
  • Viktor Afanasev
    Viktor Afanasev 28 February 2021 19: 35
    0
    It has been going on for a long time ... Getting a domestic engine for frigates ... I remember how in 2014 the "hurray-patriots" shouted that in a year the engines would be ready. And everyone was fooled ... who doubted ...
    It remains to wait until the entire ship kit is put on the frigate, then it will definitely be possible to rejoice.
    I hope this will not be limited to the release and our DOMESTIC gas turbines, gearboxes, diesel engines will develop, improve and, most importantly, build !!!!!