Military Review

Without F-35 and new "Bayraktars": the West hits the Turkish aircraft industry

59



Victory and defeat


Last months have passed under the banner of jubilation of Azerbaijan and its Turkish ally. The Israelis have no less reason for pride, whose UAVs in Nagorno-Karabakh have once again proved their high efficiency. But if for the Jewish state and Ilham Aliyev the situation is developing exceptionally well, for Turkey the latest successes may turn out to be a “swan song”.

This is not about the country as a whole, but specifically about its armed forces and the capabilities of the Turkish military-industrial complex. The problems of which are being increasingly paid attention to lately. At the moment, they will in no way affect the foreign policy activity of Recep Tayyip Erdogan: he, as before, will actively (and rather aggressively) defend national interests. And there is almost no doubt that, given the ideological and political problems in the West (which with a high degree of probability will only grow), no one will really dare to confront him. However, already now, the difficulties that have appeared in Turkey, "thanks" to the actions of its leader, are gradually making themselves felt.

UAVs of the Bayraktar family


It will not be a great exaggeration to say that Turkish Bayraktars have become a symbol of victory over Armenia. These relatively simple (by modern standards) UAVs turned out to be the real "killers" of the old Soviet tanks and anti-aircraft missile systems during the Cold War.

Thanks to the laser-guided UMTAS missiles and the MAM-C and MAM-L adjustable gliding bombs, the device can hit both stationary and moving targets. The range of target destruction - up to eight kilometers - brings the Bayraktar TB2 closer to modern attack helicopters in anti-tank capabilities, although so far the rotorcraft are doing their job better than UAVs. At least in the presence of modern missiles, such as the AGM-114L Hellfire, where the principle of "fire and forget" is implemented.

Most importantly, the project is developing. Recently there were photos of the new version of Bayraktar - TV2S - with a satellite control system. The new version features an eye-catching "hump" that the regular version does not have. The applied control system over the radio channel imposes significant restrictions on the range (approximately 150 kilometers). In the case of TV2S, it can become practically "unlimited".


Source: Baykar

It would seem that there are no problems, and the future of the project is cloudless. Recently, however, the blog of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies drew attention to an important aspect of the Turkish drone program - a critical dependence on Western technology. It is known that the device is equipped with the Austrian Rotax 912 engine, as well as Western electronics. Due to the use of UAV data in the war in Karabakh, Bombardier Recreational Products, which owns Rotax, announced the termination of the supply of engines.

TAI, Turkey's leading aerospace engine company, is currently developing a 170 horsepower PD-170 that could be fitted to the Bayraktar. However, this engine is still at an experimental stage. And what will happen to the project next is unknown.

Fifth generation fighters


The problems with TB2 are just the tip of the iceberg for the Turkish defense industry. Even more serious is the lack of the latest fighters.

Recall that for many years Turkey has remained an active participant in the development program of the fifth generation F-35 fighter. The contradictions between Erdogan and the West led to talks about the withdrawal of the Turks from the program. At first, they were perceived as a childish joke or an innocent game. However, the situation gradually began to acquire a threatening character, and the US position became more and more decisive.

The Americans called the purchase of Russian S-35 anti-aircraft missile systems by Turkey as a formal reason for refusing to supply the F-400: the contract for the purchase of one hundred fighters was canceled in 2019. In July this year, the US Air Force bought out eight F-35A destined for Turkey, which de facto put an end to Turkish participation in the program. At least for now.


Photo: Airman 1st Class Aspen Reid

Officially, Turkey is still continuing the development of the national fighter TF-X (Turkish Fighter-X), the layout of which was shown to us at the exhibition in Le Bourget in 2019. However, one must understand that in conditions of tense relations with the West, this is a road to nowhere. In fact, now, due to this project, the country's authorities are trying to divert attention from the real problems of the military-industrial complex.

It should also be remembered that Turkey has never produced its own fighters, so developing a fifth generation fighter would be extremely difficult for it, even if it had good relations with the West. As, however, for any other country, except perhaps South Korea with its KAI KF-X program - a transitional link between the fourth and fifth generations.


Source: JohnNewton8, wikipedia.org

In 2017, British Rolls-Royce and Turkey's Kale Group signed a joint venture agreement to develop an engine for a new aircraft. The contract was frozen last year. The formal reason is problems with intellectual property rights.

Now the basis of the Turkish Air Force is more than 150 F-16C Block 50 fighters. These machines are rapidly becoming obsolete, and if Turkey does not take decisive steps in the future to replace them (we are not talking about the national "five"), it risks being left without a modern Air Force at all.

Attack helicopters


This year, Turkish Aerospace Industries held a closed presentation of the model of the promising T629 attack helicopter. It will have to occupy a niche between the light T129 based on the Agusta A129 Mangusta and the promising ATAK 2 helicopter - a conditional analogue of the Apache.


Source: colonelcassad.livejournal.com

Due to the current state of affairs, the prospects for the new product are extremely ambiguous. Even the adopted T129s are dependent on the Americans: they use the CTS-800A engines produced by a joint venture between the American Honeywell and Rolls-Royce. Earlier, the Americans banned the re-export of the CTS-800A to other countries, which put an end to the export opportunities of the T129.

At the same time, the Turks are actively continuing work on the aforementioned ATAK 2. It should have a takeoff weight of about 10 tons and be equipped with a cabin with a tandem crew. They want to use the promising TS1400 as the engine, which the Turkish Tusas Engine Industries (TEI) is creating together with General Electric. According to experts, the complexity of the product will make the tests at least very long. The first flight of ATAK 2, as previously noted, should be made in 2024. Most likely it will be rescheduled.

For the foreseeable future, the Turkish armed forces will have to be content with fifty previously built T129s. These machines cannot yet be called morally aged, but they are rapidly becoming obsolete, and there is no real alternative to them at this stage.


Source: MilborneOne, wikipedia.org

On the whole, the Turkish defense-industrial complex, despite the obvious local successes, found itself in de facto isolation. This primarily applies to fighters and UAVs.

This is the price to pay for foreign policy ambitions.
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  1. Doccor18
    Doccor18 30 November 2020 05: 36
    +12
    The democrats will forgive the Turks. They need Turks. If only in order to maintain the eternal tension along the Russian borders ...
    1. Antifreeze
      Antifreeze 30 November 2020 07: 22
      +19
      hi Even if some restrictions remain, the Turks will get out of the situation
      1. ecolog
        ecolog 30 November 2020 22: 40
        +4
        go out the window?
    2. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 30 November 2020 07: 30
      +3
      Quote: Doccor18
      The democrats will forgive the Turks.

      Which is not surprising, because the Turks were "punished" not by a politician, represented by Trump, but by Trump the businessman.
    3. Mister X
      Mister X 30 November 2020 09: 24
      +1
      Quote: Doccor18
      The democrats will forgive the Turks.

      hi
      Either the Turks will be shown their place, or they will turn towards the Russian Federation.
      The article mentioned the purchase of S-400 missile systems.
      I would like to remind you about the Ka-50-2 Erdogan helicopter
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 30 November 2020 11: 51
        +3
        It is not profitable for Turkey to turn completely towards Russia.
        All creditors, investors and problem solving are in the West.
        The acquisition of Motor Sich could close some of the problems.
        1. Mister X
          Mister X 30 November 2020 18: 18
          +4
          Quote: Alex777
          It is not profitable for Turkey to turn completely towards Russia.

          Then they will push their vegetables in the west.
          Remember how the Russian Federation wrapped cucumbers and tomatoes from Turkey?
        2. ecolog
          ecolog 30 November 2020 22: 41
          0
          I'm certainly not special, but it's not a fact that the engines can be changed like sneakers.
    4. Sckepsis
      Sckepsis 30 November 2020 17: 56
      +10
      And you try to give up the idea that the whole world revolves around Russia, and you will start thinking differently. The Turks are too eager to stick out to "forgive" them because of such an insignificant goal as Russia.
    5. Maz
      Maz 30 November 2020 20: 07
      +4
      serving the busurmans
  2. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 30 November 2020 06: 06
    +5
    Yesterday we quarreled, tomorrow they will make up.
    For the first time or something.
    How many Turks fought with the same British, French, and then became best friends. For the war against the Russians always comes first.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 30 November 2020 09: 24
      +1
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Yesterday we quarreled, tomorrow they will make up.


      The author of the article did not study the materials well.
      There is no embargo of the "West" at all. The Turks allies with England did not stop cooperation for a minute. TF-X is made by BAE, they will agree on Eurojet EJ200 engines, and this is cruising non-afterburner supersonic and UHT. The Germans carried out restrictions formally. With Italy, work continues. Problems only with France and that's it.
      All restrictions on the supply of equipment for Bayraktars are formal, they are bypassed at once. If not already removed. And the TB3 version will be maximally on Turkish components.
      They are upgrading the F16. AESA radar from Aselsan will begin to be installed in 2021
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 30 November 2020 09: 36
        -3
        About F35. Was the money returned for their sale? When they return, then the topic is finally closed. Until then, it's just a little leverage. As they worked, they continue to work within the framework of this project.
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 30 November 2020 11: 53
        +2
        The Turks allies with England did not stop cooperation for a minute.

        With the Britons, you're right, they really need money. As well as the Germans.
        And Canada has suspended supplies.
        I wonder what they will decide with Motor Sich.
        Will the Turks really buy it? There will be no ice.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 30 November 2020 12: 03
          -7
          Quote: Alex777
          And Canada has suspended supplies.

          Not critical at all. The Turks are making the TB3 version. She has a more powerful engine, higher maximum height and load capacity. New camera unit from Aselsan. Ukraine plans to buy 5 of them.
          Ruslan Khomchak, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, said that Ukraine intends to purchase five attack UAVs from Turkey:

          “A decision has already been made and it is planned that next year we will purchase 5 new Bayraktar for the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They have several other tactical and technical characteristics, in particular the height and range of application "

          Quote: Alex777
          Will the Turks really buy it?

          Extremely high probability. Engines are a critical position for both Turkey and China. Motor Sich retained its production and engineering base. For them, a tidbit.
          Prime Minister of Ukraine Denis Shmygal, Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky, Minister of Infrastructure Vladislav Krikliy and other government officials arrived in Turkey on a working visit and met with the Minister of Industry and Technology of Turkey Mustafa Varank.

          The Prime Minister of Ukraine stressed that Ukraine and Turkey have great potential in the field of trade cooperation:

          “I am confident that with the signing of the Free Trade Agreement between our countries, we will double this potential from $ 5 billion in annual turnover today at $ 10 billion, which can be achieved together. Ukraine wants to grow together with Turkey "
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 30 November 2020 13: 43
            +3
            Extremely high probability.

            Unless Biden breaks off ...
            And the Chinese will also strongly and finally be offended by Ukraine.
            Although I don't feel sorry for them at all. bully
          2. Maxwrx
            Maxwrx 1 December 2020 17: 35
            +1
            Its carrying capacity is lower, because the engine is heavier. The bomb load drops approximately 2 times
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 1 December 2020 17: 46
              -3
              No. The Rotax 912 has a power of 100 hp. s, the PD-170 has 170 hp, respectively.
              1. Maxwrx
                Maxwrx 1 December 2020 18: 10
                +2
                I can't find information now, but I've seen it with calculations. The engine is significantly heavier and more voracious (I hope you won't argue with this), hence either a reduction in the combat radius, or a reduction in the load with the old radius. But it will fly higher and faster, yes.
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 1 December 2020 18: 36
                  -2
                  Don't search, your source is not competent. Rotax 912 petrol, PD-170 diesel (kerosene). A diesel engine has 1,5-2 times less fuel consumption than gasoline. This just compensates for the increase in engine volume by 1,5 times. The increase in power compensates for the increase in mass. Yes, it does not just compensate, but will give an increase in all parameters.
                  All this makes it possible to install satellite communication systems, an increase in flight altitude up to 9 km, an increase in the mass of ammunition from 55 (66) kg to 75 kg.
                  1. Maxwrx
                    Maxwrx 1 December 2020 18: 49
                    +4
                    PD-170 170 HP (2300 PRM) Dry weight: 170 kg Specific consumption: 210 g / kWh 125 kW * 0,21 = 26,25 liters per hour.

                    Rotax 912. Weight 55,4 kg; fuel consumption: hour cruising 22,0 l / h.,

                    It turns out that he eats more and even the message is 110 kg more!
                    1. Maxwrx
                      Maxwrx 1 December 2020 18: 52
                      +2
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgDg3ZMvGE PD-170

                      https://zinref.ru/000_uchebniki/00660dvigateli/025_00_00_Expluotatsia_dvigatelya_Rotax_912_ULS/002.htm Rotax 912.
                    2. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 1 December 2020 19: 13
                      -3
                      Quote: MaxWRX
                      Rotax 912. Weight 55,4 kg; fuel consumption: hour cruising 22,0 l / h.

                      These are the parameters of ROTAX 912 A / F / UL at 80 hp.
                      ROTAX 912 S / ULS 100 hp has a passport flow rate of 25 l / h
                      https://vidsverhu.ru/assets/files/ROTAX_912.pdf
                      1. Maxwrx
                        Maxwrx 2 December 2020 01: 11
                        +2
                        Ok, let them have the same consumption. But the difference in weight of 110 kg has not gone anywhere. The fuel stock is only 300 kg, which means you need to fill in a third less in order to maintain the load of weapons. Besides, I think the engine is more difficult to maintain and more expensive. Preparation for re-flight should also increase slightly. So a Turkish engine is bad for a drone. In addition to the greater height, there are some disadvantages.
                      2. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 2 December 2020 08: 33
                        -3
                        Quote: MaxWRX
                        But the difference in weight of 110 kg has not gone anywhere

                        Where did the difference of 70 horses disappear? RD-170 is on Anka, it has a maximum take-off weight of 1600 kg (24 hours with a payload of 200 kg); TB2 with Rotax 912 650 kg.
                        The increase in power exceeds the increase in mass.
                        Everything else is also your ideas, not confirmed by standards.
                      3. Maxwrx
                        Maxwrx 3 December 2020 21: 59
                        +1
                        And here is the difference in the horses that you sent, that I have the characteristics of the engine. Their fuel consumption is the same, only the Turkish one weighs 110 kg more. Do not fill the 300 l tank with more fuel. It is not entirely correct by these parameters to compare these aircraft, they are in different dimensions. The TB2 has 650 kg and a load of 150 kg, the weight is 2,5 times less, and the load is only a quarter. There are some formulas for calculations that I saw, and with Turkish engines it loses precisely because of its weight for such a small UAV. That power, as it were, does not compensate for the extra 110 kg.
                2. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 1 December 2020 19: 22
                  -2
                  Actual information about RD-170 (though in Turkish). https://twitter.com/TyrannosurusRex/status/1201136333508530178?s=20
                  Your file link won't open.
  • Pankrat25
    Pankrat25 30 November 2020 06: 41
    +3
    I do not believe in any isolation of the Turks, they just tightened the leash so that they would not feel too free.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 30 November 2020 06: 52
      +1
      they just pulled up the leash so that they don't feel too loose.

      I agree ... and the sultan was simultaneously shown where his place is ... it looks like Erdogan understood this and pricked up his skis to his master. hi We are waiting, as usual, for a new dirty trick of the Turks against us.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 30 November 2020 07: 18
    +4
    Ilya, please, tell us how "good" everything is with our attack drones, which also depend on the same Austrians for their engines. If, for a light drone, we were able to buy engines, then Altair-Altius will no longer see Austrian engines, because the Yankees bent the Austrians with sanctions. And we don't have our engines yet! What they want to put on Altius increases its mass by at least 2 tons, reduces the fuel supply and the flight range. We will create our own similar engine from scratch in at least 2-3 years, so Altius will fly in the amount of a couple of prototypes for a long time. And there is nowhere to take the engine - no one wants to sell them to us, fearing US sanctions. The same Chinese are generally insolent, they promise to help in exchange for the engine and technology for the 5th generation aircraft, especially since they need the engine of the second stage, our most modern! So, you can laugh at the Turks, but they themselves got stuck "with import substitution" like chickens in a pluck!
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 30 November 2020 08: 21
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      So, you can laugh at the Turks, but they themselves got stuck "with import substitution" like chickens in a pluck!

      In general, you don't need to laugh at anyone, this is an indicator of "myopic" thinking. But it will be interesting to see how Erdogan responds to the Austrians and Canadians. With such sanctions to an ally in the military bloc (from the same Canada), the NATO high command, which is under the Americans, once again makes it clear to all members that there are no allies for the United States, but vassals. Any discord in the camp of the enemy is in our favor. As for our import substitution, it is not all that bad either. First, this is another reminder to our liberals in the economy about their mistake in relying on the world system of division of labor. Secondly, an additional motivational kick for us to step up work in one of the most problematic industries - engine building. Somehow not very long ago the topic of using the engine from "Cortege" in aviation was discussed. I can't say how things are there today, but the topic has already been taken care of. And they thought to build Red in Russia. I think everything will be ... Over time.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 November 2020 08: 37
    0
    This year, Turkish Aerospace Industries held a closed presentation of the model of the promising T629 attack helicopter. It will have to occupy a niche between the light T129 based on the Agusta A129 Mangusta and the promising ATAK 2 helicopter - a conditional analogue of the Apache.

    Why do Turks need 33 different attack helicopters? Do they take an example from us? Despite the fact that the trend towards the partial replacement of strikers with UAVs, the Turks caught on and invested well in this business.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 30 November 2020 09: 06
      -5
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Why do Turks need 33 different attack helicopters?

      Sell.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 30 November 2020 09: 09
        0
        In terms of cost versus sales revenue, this is a bad idea. And Turks are good businessmen ..... And the dimension of an attack helicopter has long been established on the market. There are three of them Agusta- (Tiger) - Apache - Mi24-28 (Ka52)
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 30 November 2020 09: 29
          -2
          The tiger is neither fish nor meat, and roads, the Apache is very, very expensive, the Mi24-28 (Ka52) electronics are outdated, there are no modern missiles. Sanctions against Russian weapons, Europe and the United States are not selling to many. So there is a market. The development is sponsored by the state and follows the general trend of technical development.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 30 November 2020 09: 38
            +1
            I'm writing about the standard size ... ... as for the rest, it's easy to criticize. Where is the guarantee that the Turks will do at least the same as the Mi28-Ka52 .....? Prok they made a T-129 based on Agust in the dimensions of the Tiger and Cobra. This is where you need to compare.
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 30 November 2020 23: 21
        +2
        Sell.

        States have already banned their engines to resell.
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 30 November 2020 09: 29
    -2
    Bullshit is all that.
    As they quarrel, they will reconcile. Member of NATO all the same.

    They moved them squeezed because of the tension in Middle-earth, as it passes, they will give it.
    Its economy is not bad, they will master a little thing.

    Only airplanes - yes, it's a long, new business. But there is enough for Armenia, Syria, etc.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 30 November 2020 10: 05
      0
      Not without this, but the West does not allow the Turks to compete with them. And to be independent in the supply of military equipment too. The Americans now, to one degree or another, control the production of military equipment (Main) in the Western world. Or the shareholders are sitting or supplying critical components. And the Turks want to produce and sell on their own. Also in the "clearing" of the leading NATO countries. It is unlikely that they will be allowed to do this. The only way out is to make cars initially with the ability to use components from China or the Russian Federation. And do something yourself.
  • Reviews
    Reviews 30 November 2020 10: 13
    0
    Due to the use of UAV data in the war in Karabakh, Bombardier Recreational Products, which owns Rotax, announced the termination of the supply of engines.

    And on what basis did I not understand something?

    In the picture of the F-35, the technician at the right pillar is somehow very concerned about the condition of the tire. :) Did you cut the cord? :)
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 30 November 2020 10: 54
    +3
    If the Europeans and the Americans are too tight-lipped, Erdogan has two more options for supply and cooperation - the real one is China and the threat of purchases from us as a political lever
  • svoit
    svoit 30 November 2020 11: 10
    -1
    Quote: KVU-NSVD
    If the Europeans and the Americans are too tight

    The meaning of all the "restrictions" is to show Turkey its place, it only went "in the wrong place" when it began to let refugees into Europe, otherwise there was never any disagreement. Although, of course, America would like Turkey to pursue not so much a neo-Ottoman policy as pro-American, but both are 99% the same
  • Alien From
    Alien From 30 November 2020 11: 31
    -1
    They will poke a finger to the Sultan and everything is beneficial to the West of destabilization in Europe and at the borders of Russia.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 30 November 2020 12: 47
    +1
    Ukraine will help them, if, of course, the State Department will allow it! This is me about the engine for rotorcraft and UAVs. But space can be chopped off.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 30 November 2020 12: 49
    +2
    The US will marinate Turks for another 20 years, as Europe marinated with promises to join the EU. The West does not need Turkey's leaps in industrial production, but they will not want to take away such a tasty morsel, they will simply use the Turks. I think that the West will try to push Turkey and Russia into a military conflict.
  • Shahno
    Shahno 30 November 2020 12: 52
    0
    Quote: APASUS
    The US will marinate Turks for another 20 years, as Europe marinated with promises to join the EU. The West does not need Turkey's leaps in industrial production, but they will not want to take away such a tasty morsel, they will simply use the Turks. I think that the West will try to push Turkey and Russia into a military conflict.

    And what. If Turkey is so independent .. Why does it need the back of the EU and the states.
    That's decided. So yourself, no question ..
    Honestly, as it were.
  • Lad
    Lad 30 November 2020 16: 01
    +1
    As far as I know, yes, Italy has banned the supply of its Rotax 912 engines to Turkish bayraktars. But this was only a ban on direct deliveries. It is not forbidden to supply them to other countries with subsequent resale. So, if desired, the engines will only cost the Turks a little more.
    But, of course, the Turks should take care of the backup scheme for supplying other engines. What they actually do. So the rumors about the death of the production of drones from the Turks are "somewhat exaggerated."
  • Igor Berg
    Igor Berg 30 November 2020 20: 35
    +1
    Due to the use of UAV data in war

    no, he has to irrigate the fields with pesticides ...
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 1 December 2020 10: 58
    +3
    On the whole, the Turkish defense-industrial complex, despite the obvious local successes, found itself in de facto isolation. This primarily applies to fighters and UAVs.

    This is the price to pay for foreign policy ambitions.
    The reasons are deeper and have their roots in the past, in history.
    Turkey had exactly the same problems during and after the war with Greece.

    You need to understand a simple axiom, forgetting the tales of the open world and the tales of the slaves of globalists, Europeans will NEVER accept Turks as equals and NEVER forget history, remembering what Turkey is capable of having strengthened. NEVER and POINT.

    The fact that Turkey is still tolerated in NATO is only a matter of its geographical position and numerous ground forces, as I already wrote today, cannon fodder to save the lives of the children of John and Hans. Turkey will now go through all the circles of Hell, until the Americans and Europeans remove Erdogan and the Turks again become tame, fluffy and affectionate.
  • OXOTHuK_TyHYC
    OXOTHuK_TyHYC 1 December 2020 11: 14
    -7
    First of all, Turkey does not need the F-35 for nothing. They have established the release of the F-16 +4 generation.
    And as for drones, they launched production of drones with domestic motors back in 2016.

    For they would not be so impudent if everything was flushed down the toilet.
    1. dima314
      dima314 6 December 2020 16: 30
      0
      They have established the release of the F-16 +4 generation. - funny to read) There is production, but what is the percentage of localization?). Dviglo amerskoe and avionics too, maybe they do some of the minor details, but the key ones in no way and then with full agreement with the owner of intellectual property)
      1. OXOTHuK_TyHYC
        OXOTHuK_TyHYC 11 December 2020 14: 38
        0
        You tell this to the Wagnerians who feed the worms.
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 1 December 2020 16: 58
    -1
    Would like to economically pressure them from all sides, this bug has become very smelly.
  • SHAH
    SHAH 1 December 2020 17: 44
    0
    My grandfather told me that there are no hopeless situations, but there are stupid ones who cannot or do not want to find a way out.
  • zwlad
    zwlad 5 December 2020 17: 48
    -1
    The Turks have no problems with drone engines. They'll just copy it. With electronics, it's a little more complicated, but this can also be solved within 2-3 years. Helicopter engines - yes, a problem. You will either have to buy in Russia or contact China. Until they create their own. And they will create their own, over time. There are no problems with planes either. Russian will order with Israeli avionics. But as soon as the Turks start working in this direction, they will either sell f35, or they will try to eliminate Erdogan.
    1. dima314
      dima314 6 December 2020 16: 27
      +1
      How easy is it for you) To overcome the backlog in electronics in 3 years?))) Israeli electronics are amerskaya and they are like 51 states. The Chinese are still trying to copy the engines.) Nope, it all depends on imports, which again depends on amrs.
      1. zwlad
        zwlad 6 December 2020 16: 43
        -2
        You do not compare copying a turbojet engine and a piston engine (if my memory serves the Turks, piston engines), even in the pre-war USSR they coped with it. Because it was necessary.
        The Jews will sell anything if there is a 100 +% profit, and the Americans will turn a blind eye to it.
  • dima314
    dima314 6 December 2020 16: 24
    +1
    everything depends on how they will be friends with amers. If the Americans put pressure on Europe, and even more so on Ukraine, no one will sell them anything. whether China will sell the question. What is Turkey's economy based on? They produce a lot, but all are either minor items or licensed. I think there is also something of our own, but it’s definitely modern. Here China has how many resources and how much it beats to produce engines, but everything is still lagging behind. The Turks did not lie next to China. Although the Turks have undoubted successes, they cannot do everything themselves, not on the scale, and the purchase of key technologies and components is very dependent on the State Department.
  • Suhow
    Suhow 7 December 2020 03: 49
    0
    Buy from the Russian Federation and China, for example.