Find an aircraft carrier: to replace the Tu-95RTs

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One of the most important elements of the Soviet system of counteraction against aircraft carrier and ship strike groups (AUG and KUG) of a potential enemy, along with the global satellite system of maritime space reconnaissance and target designation (MCRTs) "Legend", considered in the article Find an aircraft carrier: space reconnaissance, were strategic reconnaissance and target designation aircraft Tu-95RTs. From 1963 to 1969 in the interests of the Naval fleet (Navy) of the Soviet Union, 52 (!) Tu-95RTs aircraft were built, which served from 1964 to the early 90s of the twentieth century. Tu-95RTs aircraft carried out patrols lasting about a day, which made it possible to "reveal" the surface situation over a vast territory.

After the Tu-95RTs was decommissioned, Tu-142MRTs should have come to replace it, however, due to the collapse of the USSR, as well as a change in the concept, involving the issuance of target designation from satellites of the Legend system, work on the Tu-142MRTs stopped, and the only copy of the aircraft was scrapped.



Considering the state of the Legend satellite system and the Liana system that came to replace it, after the abandonment of the Tu-95RTs, the Russian Navy was left without further aviation intelligence.

Is it advisable now to develop a strategic reconnaissance aircraft, conceptually similar to the Tu-95RTs, but implemented at a new technical level?

There is an opinion that the crews of the Tu-95RTs were to some extent "suicide bombers", since in the event of a conflict there was an extremely high probability that they would be destroyed by the enemy's carrier-based aircraft, and even before they could issue target designations for guiding anti-ship missiles (RCC). These risks have not disappeared anywhere, moreover, most likely they have even increased.

However, aviation has got its own trump card - unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), of which we are interested in HALE (High Altitude Long Endurance) class vehicles - long-range BLPs for flights at altitudes over 14000 meters and partly of the MALE class (Medium Altitude Long Endurance) - BLPA long-range for flights at altitudes of 4500-14000 meters.

Strategic reconnaissance UAVs of the USA


If considered in the article Find an aircraft carrier: a view from the stratosphere high-altitude reconnaissance airships and electric UAVs are only at the very beginning of their development, then "classical" UAVs with turbojet, turboprop or piston engines have already reached technical "maturity" and are actively used to solve various combat missions. The first and main task of the UAV is to carry out reconnaissance and target designation.

One of the most complex and expensive UAVs is the HALE-class strategic heavy high-altitude UAVs, the most prominent representatives of which are the American RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV and its naval version, the MQ-4C Triton. Practically the only serious drawback of these machines is their price, which is $ 120-140 million, excluding development costs.


UAVs RQ-4 Global Hawk (above) and MQ-4C Triton (below)

The maximum flight altitude of the RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV is about 20 kilometers, the maximum flight duration is 36 hours. At a distance of 5500 kilometers from the home airfield, the RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV can patrol for 24 hours. The maximum flight speed is 644 kilometers per hour.

The RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV radar allows a day to receive an image of an area of ​​138 thousand square kilometers from a distance of 200 kilometers with a resolution of 1 square meter, and an image with a resolution of 0,3 square meters can be obtained in the spot mode. The received information is transmitted through a satellite communication channel at a speed of up to 50 Mbit / s. The UAV is also equipped with an optical-location station with day, night and thermal imaging channels.


Radar image with less than 1 meter resolution. The images received by the RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV radar and the MQ-4C Triton UAV should be of even higher quality

Currently, the RQ-4 Global Hawk UAVs are flying along the Russian border, carrying out reconnaissance for 200-300 kilometers inland. It can be assumed that the UAVs are kept at a certain distance from the border in order not to come under fire from Russian anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM), and the real range of the radar is underestimated in order to misinform the enemy and in fact can be up to 400-500 kilometers.

The MQ-4C Triton UAV has a similar set of equipment optimized for detecting targets on the water surface. It is capable of patrolling at an altitude of 17 kilometers at a speed of up to 610 kilometers per hour. The duration of the patrol reaches 30 hours. The MQ-4C Triton is capable of dramatically changing altitude and "diving" under the clouds to obtain an optical image of the detected radar targets.

The AFAR all-round radar can scan 5200 square kilometers in one pass. The software can carry out automatic target recognition based on radar signatures received from the radar. Also on the UAV MQ-4C Triton is placed an electronic reconnaissance system (RER), similar to that installed on the RER Lockheed EP-3 aircraft, which allows the UAV to evade detection of enemy radar. Also, at the moment, work is underway to give the MQ-4C Triton UAV radar the function of detecting air targets.

Paradoxically, for the Russian navy (Navy), critically dependent on the ability to use long-range anti-ship missiles, such a UAV would be much more useful than for the US Navy. It could replace the strategic reconnaissance aircraft Tu-95RTs, providing several times greater efficiency in detecting enemy AUG and KUG.


Unfortunately, while the Russian version of the RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV, capable of qualitatively surpassing the Tu-95RTs reconnaissance aircraft in terms of efficiency, can only be represented in the picture

It can be assumed that the next generation of strategic reconnaissance aircraft can be implemented taking into account the widespread use of means of reducing the signature, similar to those used on the F-22 and F-35 fighters, as well as B-2 bombers and promising B-21 Raider bombers.

Presumably, they will use three-circuit turbojet engines, which are currently being actively developed by American companies. For example, the XA-100 engine, which is being developed by General Electric, according to official information, can reduce fuel consumption by 25% and increase thrust by 20%. Therefore, it is easy to extrapolate the increase in the characteristics of the RQ-4 Global Hawk / MQ-4C Triton UAVs when such an engine is installed on them.

Strategic reconnaissance UAVs of the Russian Federation


If we speak in the format of an alternative stories, then Russia could well bypass the United States in the creation of the UAV.

In 2014, the Sukhoi Design Bureau announced the Zond-1 UAV project and its version of the Zond-2 early-range radar detection (AWACS) HALE class with a wingspan of 35 meters, a flight height of up to 16 kilometers and a flight duration of up to 24 hours. Two AI-222-25 turbojet engines (TRD), used on the Yak-130 training aircraft, were supposed to be used as engines.


Image of UAV "Zond-1" (left), turbojet engine AI-222-25 and UAV AWACS "Zond-2" (right)

Even earlier, in 1993, the Myasishchev design bureau proposed a project for the M-62 high-altitude UAV.

Find an aircraft carrier: to replace the Tu-95RTs
Image of high-altitude UAV M-62 KB "Myasishchev"

However, history does not know the subjunctive mood, and at that time all projects of high-altitude UAVs remained at the stage of sketches and models. As mentioned above, at the moment Russia does not have analogues of the RQ-4 Global Hawk and MQ-4C Triton UAVs, and, in general, the HALE class UAVs. The closest solution is the Altair (Altius-M / Altius-U) UAV of the MALE class.

In terms of its flight characteristics - a cruising speed of 250 kilometers per hour (maximum 450 km / h) and a ceiling of 12 meters, the UAV - Altair is approximately one and a half to two times inferior to the UAV of the RQ-000 Global Hawk / MQ-4C Triton type, but it surpasses it in patrol time, which is 4 hours (taking into account the lower speed and flight altitude, the area of ​​the surveyed surface covered by the Altair UAV in one flight will in any case be less). UAV "Altair" is equipped with two diesel engines with a maximum power of 48 liters. from.


UAV "Altair" ("Altius-M" / "Altius-U")

The Altair UAV is equipped with an optical-location surveillance system and a side-looking AFAR radar, there is no information on the characteristics of these systems. At the same time, the carrying capacity of 2000 kilograms makes it possible to accommodate rather massive equipment. It is planned to install a satellite communication system that provides global control of the UAV (the only question is the capacity of the existing satellite communication channels of the Russian Federation - the speed of 5 kilobits is clearly not enough here).

The development of the Altair UAV comes with problems and delays: the original contractor is JSC NPO OKB im. MP Simonov "", engaged in the project since 2011, after a series of checks and criminal proceedings against the General Director of the OKB Alexander Gomzin on charges of embezzling 900 million rubles allocated for the development of the UAV, was suspended from work, after which the general contractor for the project UAV "Altair" became JSC "Ural plant of civil aviation". In January 2020, there was information about the flight tests of the UAV "Altius-U".


The first flight of the UAV "Altius-U"

There is information on the implementation of the civilian version of the Altair UAV - the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) project. The project was presented by JSC NPO OKB im. M.P. Simonov "in 2017.


BVS project images

At the exhibition "Army-2020" JSC "Kronshtadt" was presented a mock-up of the UAV "Helios-RLD": with a turboprop engine with a pushing propeller, estimated weight of 4-5 tons, with a wingspan of 30 meters, designed for loitering for 30 hours at an altitude over 11 meters at a cruising speed of 000 kilometers per hour.


UAV model "Helios-RLD" - at the bottom you can see a flat panel of the radar with AFAR

Taking into account the successful experience of Kronshtadt JSC in the development and putting into service of the Orion UAV, there are chances that the Helios-RLD UAV project may be implemented even earlier than the Altair UAV project.


The first Orion complex transferred to the troops includes two command vehicles and three UAVs

Despite the fact that the Altair and Gelius UAVs are more likely to be middle-class UAVs (MALE), they are quite capable of performing the work of the HALE-class UAVs of the RQ-4 Global Hawk / MQ-4C Triton type. At the same time, their capabilities will in any case be higher than that of the ancient Tu-95RTs, plus the absence of a crew on board, which allows, if necessary, to carry out combat operations with a higher degree of risk.

As mentioned earlier, the widespread introduction of UAVs is possible only if there is a global encrypted anti-jamming satellite communication with a high throughput, sufficient to transfer huge amounts of data - radar and optical images for its subsequent analysis by operators. American experience speaks of the need for communication channels with a bandwidth of about 50 Mbit / s.

For a long time, the Russian Federation lagged behind the leading countries of the world in the development and implementation of medium and heavy UAVs, and only in recent years there has been progress in this direction. Two main problems can be distinguished - the absence of the above-mentioned global encrypted jam-resistant satellite communications with high throughput and the absence of highly efficient economical aircraft engines. When solving these problems, one can expect a significant increase in the rate of appearance of new developments of Russian UAVs of the HALE and MALE class.

Conclusions


High-altitude and medium-altitude UAVs of the HALE and MALE class with a long flight duration can effectively replace the decommissioned strategic reconnaissance aircraft Tu-95RTs when solving the problem of searching for AUG and KUG, as well as issuing target designation of anti-ship missiles to them.

Compared to stratospheric electric UAVs, they have (at least for now) a higher carrying capacity, which allows placing effective reconnaissance means, and a higher speed, which allows them to quickly advance into a given area and avoid meeting enemy fighters. The disadvantages include an order of magnitude shorter patrol time, but most likely these machines will perform in different classes, not replacing, but complementing each other.

The combination of global satellite reconnaissance and communications systems, stratospheric airships and UAVs, as well as "classic" UAVs of the HALE and MALE class will minimize the likelihood of enemy AUG and ACG evasion from detection.

However, the possibilities for detecting AUG and KUG are not limited to this - new reconnaissance and strike systems are on the way, capable of organizing a "driven hunt" for aircraft carriers.
115 comments
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  1. -2
    23 November 2020 05: 03
    I wonder why there are 3 and 5 or 6 UAVs in the complex? For two control cars, just 6 shock drones are what you need.
    1. +1
      23 November 2020 08: 40
      Quote: Thrifty
      I wonder why there are 3 and 5 or 6 UAVs in the complex? For two control cars, just 6 shock drones are what you need.

      And they have different purposes, some of the UAVs will be used as repeaters and for the operation of electronic warfare systems
    2. +1
      23 November 2020 11: 43
      two control machines can form one control complex.
      in the photo the cars are different
  2. +3
    23 November 2020 05: 09
    (the only question is the capacity of the existing satellite communication channels of the Russian Federation - the speed of 5 kilobits is clearly not enough here).

    Why is bandwidth so low? belay
    1. +1
      23 November 2020 07: 00
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      (the only question is the capacity of the existing satellite communication channels of the Russian Federation - the speed of 5 kilobits is clearly not enough here).

      Why is bandwidth so low? belay


      I have no data on what bandwidth may now be available to control the UAV of the RF Armed Forces. It is rather an example for understanding the order of numbers.
      I think, of course, not 5 but 50, maybe more.

      Accordingly, another question about the coverage area.
      1. +7
        23 November 2020 10: 47
        Quote: AVM
        Accordingly, another question about the coverage area.

        This is the most important and important question ... so with your conclusion - "..... High-altitude and medium-altitude UAVs of the HALE and MALE class with a long flight duration can effectively replace the decommissioned strategic reconnaissance aircraft Tu-95RTs when solving the problem of searching for AUG and KUG, as well as issuing target designation of anti-ship missiles to them." DO NOT AGREE CATEGORALLY soldier
        Unless you "insert" before your output the phrase .... "Exclusively in a PEACEFUL time period" wink
        Back in the days of the Tu-95RTs, which had the appropriate intelligence systems, it could carry out its "activities for the main purpose" at ranges of 300-400 km, and the F-4 supersonic interception line was 430 km (from the duty on an aircraft carrier).
        Do you want our UAV to "hang" at a distance of 200 km from the AUG or KUG? belay
        1. +7
          23 November 2020 11: 39
          Quote: ancient
          Quote: AVM
          Accordingly, another question about the coverage area.

          This is the most important and important question ... so with your conclusion - "..... High-altitude and medium-altitude UAVs of the HALE and MALE class with a long flight duration can effectively replace the decommissioned strategic reconnaissance aircraft Tu-95RTs when solving the problem of searching for AUG and KUG, as well as issuing target designation of anti-ship missiles to them." DO NOT AGREE CATEGORALLY soldier
          Unless you "insert" before your output the phrase .... "Exclusively in a PEACEFUL time period" wink
          Back in the days of the Tu-95RTs, which had the appropriate intelligence systems, it could carry out its "activities for the main purpose" at ranges of 300-400 km, and the F-4 supersonic interception line was 430 km (from the duty on an aircraft carrier).
          Do you want our UAV to "hang" at a distance of 200 km from the AUG or KUG? belay


          So the UAV's range will be no less, but taking into account the improvement of the radar, and more. Aircraft carriers have not yet become less visible. It's better to lose a UAV than a scout with a crew.

          And the UAV doesn't have to work alone. Initially, the satellites determine the area of ​​the AUG (in the future, nothing else will be required), then several UAVs move there, the first one specifies the coordinates, it is shot down, then the second one refines it again, it will most likely be shot down, and then the anti-ship missiles will cover the AUG.
          1. +9
            23 November 2020 14: 07
            Quote: AVM
            So the UAV's range will be no less, but taking into account the improvement of the radar, and more.

            What kind of powerful radar do you want to "push" into our UAV so that the detection range would be over 500-600 km? belay
            Quote: AVM
            Aircraft carriers have not become less visible yet

            You can't even imagine how many tactical methods and techniques of disguise and stealth they have wink
            Quote: AVM
            It's better to lose a UAV than a scout with a crew.

            It is indisputable here, only the scout can quickly deliver intelligence, and the UAV will not even let you approach the area of ​​maneuvering or deployment of the AUG.
            Quote: AVM
            Initially, the satellites determine the area of ​​the AUG (in the future, nothing else will be required), then several UAVs move there, the first one specifies the coordinates, it is shot down, then the second one refines it again, it will most likely be shot down, and then the anti-ship missiles will cover the AUG.

            These are conversations in favor of .... the "poor" .... from the moment the satellite detects the area where the AUG is located and until .... the completion of additional reconnaissance by your UAV (while it slams into this area "... from the AUG there is already a trace get cold wassat
            I repeat once again ..... no one in real conditions will allow any air target to approach the distance of 800-1000 km to the AUG ..... but about the fact that the anti-ship missiles .. will "come" to the intended area themselves, without the control center "find" the main target .... probability ..... 0 integers and ... "a few" tenths " wassat
            One hope ... in our submarine fleet.
            1. +1
              23 November 2020 14: 27
              no one in real conditions will allow any air target to approach the AUG at a distance of 800-1000 km.


              In fairness, Iranian drones have been approaching AUG quite successfully and regularly since 2012.
              It is clear that if the situation aggravates, they will be brought down, but this will already be an open demonstration of hostile intentions and a reason to alert all forces.
              1. +6
                23 November 2020 14: 33
                Quote: Lex_is
                In fairness, Iranian drones have been approaching AUG quite successfully and regularly since 2012.

                So ours ... pass directly above the deck and ... imitate the entry to the deck wink
                1. +6
                  23 November 2020 14: 37
                  This is a normal peacetime escort practice.
                  And drones have an advantage here because of their low speed, longer airborne time and cost of loss.
            2. +1
              23 November 2020 15: 16
              Quote: ancient
              Quote: AVM
              So the UAV's range will be no less, but taking into account the improvement of the radar, and more.

              What kind of powerful radar do you want to "push" into our UAV so that the detection range would be over 500-600 km? belay


              At least the same as on Tritons and Global Hawks. If they can map with a resolution of 0,3-1 meter for 250-300 km, then NC sizes of 100+ meters for 400-500 km in theory should see.

              Quote: ancient
              Quote: AVM
              Aircraft carriers have not become less visible yet

              You can't even imagine how many tactical methods and techniques of disguise and stealth they have wink


              Tactical yes, but it meant that the radar signature of aircraft carriers has not changed much compared to its counterparts 50 years ago.

              Quote: ancient
              Quote: AVM
              It's better to lose a UAV than a scout with a crew.

              It is indisputable here, only the scout can quickly deliver intelligence, and the UAV will not even let you approach the area of ​​maneuvering or deployment of the AUG.


              What's the difference? That a manned reconnaissance officer would be shot down, that a UAV?

              Quote: ancient
              Quote: AVM
              Initially, the satellites determine the area of ​​the AUG (in the future, nothing else will be required), then several UAVs move there, the first one specifies the coordinates, it is shot down, then the second one refines it again, it will most likely be shot down, and then the anti-ship missiles will cover the AUG.

              These are conversations in favor of .... the "poor" .... from the moment the satellite detects the area where the AUG is located and until .... the completion of additional reconnaissance by your UAV (while it slams into this area "... from the AUG there is already a trace get cold wassat


              This is for now. There will be less and less dead zones in the ocean, more and more satellites and UAVs, of various classes. It is not for nothing that I am writing a series of articles in which various means of intelligence are considered. Ultimately, heterogeneous information processed in a single center will allow you to get a synergistic effect and prevent the goal from leaving.

              Quote: ancient
              I repeat once again ..... no one in real conditions will allow any air target to approach the distance of 800-1000 km to the AUG ..... but about the fact that the anti-ship missiles .. will "come" to the intended area themselves, without the control center "find" the main target .... probability ..... 0 integers and ... "a few" tenths " wassat
              One hope ... in our submarine fleet.


              You bent about 800-1000 km, at such a distance even AWACS AUG will not allow scouts to detect. 300-400 km is already more real. We are looking for a floating airfield, and they need to see air targets with RCS less than 1 m2.

              In addition, the very radiation of the AWACS or air defense of the destroyer is already unmasking the AUG, no matter how you shift the flight zone, but one way or another there will be an understanding of its approximate coordinates. And then, if it is necessary to clarify the target, the UAVs go for a breakthrough and sacrificing themselves must reveal the coordinates and course of the targets.
              1. +6
                23 November 2020 16: 52
                Quote: AVM

                You bent about 800-1000 km, at such a distance even the AWACS AUG will not allow scouts to detect. 300-400 km is already more real.

                Look for the work of the Hokai and their distance from the aircraft carrier.
                Target the detection range by the Hokai themselves.
                At the same time, look for the scheme of the avionics complex at the Hokaevs.
                I must say right away that this AWACS aircraft is equipped with RTR facilities in many ways much stronger than some specialized RTR aircraft.
                1. +5
                  23 November 2020 17: 50
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  I must say right away that this AWACS aircraft is equipped with RTR facilities in many ways much stronger than some specialized RTR aircraft.

                  Without a doubt. A huge number of people are convinced that Hawkeye is just a flying radar, and that by sending a UAV with a radar in flight, we will get the same thing. And they do not realize that the main reconnaissance work is performed by passive RTR means, and the active work of the Hokai radar is a means of additional reconnaissance of targets and illumination of the situation in battle
                2. 0
                  27 December 2020 03: 30
                  Where are they going to deploy these aircraft carriers in the Norwegian or Barents Sea? In the Pacific Ocean, it is possible to drop tactical nuclear weapons in an approximate place, burn them electronics and let them be repaired.
              2. +8
                23 November 2020 17: 43
                Quote: AVM
                Quote: ancient
                Quote: AVM
                So the UAV's range will be no less, but taking into account the improvement of the radar, and more.

                What kind of powerful radar do you want to "push" into our UAV so that the detection range would be over 500-600 km? belay


                At least the same as on Tritons and Global Hawks. If they can map with a resolution of 0,3-1 meter for 250-300 km, then NC sizes of 100+ meters for 400-500 km in theory should see.


                Do we already have at least one airborne AFAR?
                Their first airborne AFAR appeared 40 years ago.
                And for these 40 years, they have been continuously improving technology ..
                And we don’t even have one serial sample and we don’t even know how it will work, where to move in improvement.
                Especially in the context of total sanctions and lack of access to technology.

                And the second thing. Extremely important. Which is usually forgotten by "theorists" out of ignorance.
                The Global Hawk and Triton have the highest level, a very powerful and economical engine. PP3007. Its generator is sufficient (30kVA approximately 27kW) enough to provide the entire avionics.

                And how much power will Altair's generators give for avionics?
                And even more so Helios?
                Three-four-five times less?
                What then at least the same as on Tritons and Global Hawks do you speak at all?
                1. +2
                  24 November 2020 07: 19
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Do we already have at least one airborne AFAR?

                  They say that even two, but for other few targets and devices - radars for the Su-57 and MiG-35, but ... so far no one has seen them live ... On production samples and with confirmed characteristics.
                  But for intelligence, this is not so important - there is no AFAR, the PFAR will do. The only question is to provide energy for this pleasure.
                  On "Altius" and other propeller vehicles, it will not work to power the radar from the generator from the power take-off shaft. Or it will work out, but badly - from a turbojet engine, you can take power from the shaft without losing traction and additional. fuel consumption. With a diesel engine and a turboprop, this will not work - there will be a loss of power.
                  So the hope in AUG reconnaissance will rely more on a passive radio-technical component ... But we know that the enemy is able to carry out his tasks even in the mode of complete (or almost complete) radio silence ...
                  So far, only satellites remain.
                  Until there are engines, generators with power take-off from these engines and compact AFAR radar.
            3. -3
              24 November 2020 00: 14
              Repeatedly and not so long ago, ours sneaked up to the AUG on conventional fighters for a couple of kilometers unnoticed.
            4. +4
              24 November 2020 07: 02
              Quote: ancient
              What kind of powerful radar do you want to "push" into our UAV so that the detection range would be over 500-600 km?

              This requires a UAV of a class not lower than the Global Hawk, and the main problem is not in the radar itself, but in its energy. But to provide energy to such a radar, a generator is needed, and preferably from the power take-off shaft from the main engine, exploiting the excess torque of the turbojet engine shaft. Therefore, the engine must also be a turbojet, not a turboprop. And the toy will turn out to be rather big and quite expensive, even if not as much as that of the Americans ...
              But in order to get this in the foreseeable future, OCD should have started yesterday. In the meantime, there is neither a suitable engine, nor a generator with a power take-off shaft ... it remains to hope for the "Altius", which integrates the "Sych" outboard container with a side-looking radar ... But will such a radar have enough power to detect enemy ships (especially AUG) from a safe distance for himself, only Ahura-Mazda knows.

              In the meantime, the most important for the Navy is the emergence of new anti-submarine defense aircraft with avionics at the level of American-Japanese counterparts, which will be able to perform both the role of patrolmen and, albeit at the cost of their own lives in a crisis situation, in the role of reconnaissance aircraft and target designation of sea targets.
              We do not have a replacement for the Il-38 to this day ... and the modernization of these oldies is stuck.

              And if we returned Novorossiya to ourselves in 2014 with its Motorsich, we would not have any problems with engines either for aircraft of different classes or for UAVs.
              And for the time being, with import substitution ... a stone flower does not come out.
              Quote: ancient
              I repeat once again ..... no one in real conditions will allow any air target to approach the AUG at a distance of 800-1000 km ...

              In this case, one hope is for satellite reconnaissance and target designation.
              And the submarine fleet, carrying out tracking with weapons.
              1. +3
                24 November 2020 10: 36
                Quote: bayard
                In the meantime, the most important for the Navy is the appearance of new anti-submarine defense aircraft with avionics at the level of American-Japanese counterparts

                I subscribe to every word.
      2. +2
        23 November 2020 12: 00
        Quote: AVM
        I think, of course, not 5 but 50, maybe more.

        if you do the primary processing of the image on a medium, then the channels will not need to be loaded so much ... hi and so - thanks for the interesting review! Long-range UAVs are a serious and cheaper alternative to satellites in the field of reconnaissance and target designation, although there are drawbacks - in particular, a long time to enter the duty zone ...
    2. +4
      23 November 2020 10: 41
      The author is not aware - the bandwidth of the Link 16 tactical radio network radio channel is 268 kbit / s. There is no question of any megabits.
      1. +5
        23 November 2020 11: 36
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        The author is not aware - the bandwidth of the Link 16 tactical radio network radio channel is 268 kbit / s. There is no question of any megabits.


        And what does it have to do with UAV control? Link 16 is mainly used to transmit coordinates, theirs and targets.

        And for data transmission from / to the RQ-4 Global Hawk they use a 50 Mbit / s channel.
        1. +5
          23 November 2020 11: 41
          Quote: AVM
          And what does it have to do with UAV control?


          Direct - Link-16 closed radio channel for combat control. And it will be enough to transmit tactical information, issue a control center, etc. And why did you decide that the 50 megabit channel is encrypted in the first place and used for reconnaissance? Maybe they shoot landscapes there for national geographers in HD,
          1. +1
            23 November 2020 11: 47
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Quote: AVM
            And what does it have to do with UAV control?


            Direct - Link-16 closed radio channel for combat control. And it will be enough to transmit tactical information, issue a control center, etc. And why did you decide that the 50 megabit channel is encrypted in the first place and used for reconnaissance? Maybe they shoot landscapes there for national geographers in HD,


            Not everything can be processed automatically. They transmit a huge amount of radar images with a resolution of 0,3-1 m2, which is very resource-intensive. And the operators can already tell exactly what is required by them. + image from OLS.

            It is possible to work with low-speed channels, but this will greatly degrade the quality. It is one thing to send a UAV to strike targets with known coordinates, and another to send reconnaissance and strike operations against complex targets.
          2. +1
            23 November 2020 22: 40
            Yes, this 8K can be transferred. Any digital signal can be encrypted with P2P encryption
  3. +3
    23 November 2020 05: 17
    A very relevant and informative article. Thanks to the author.
    1. +6
      23 November 2020 10: 50
      Quote: Alexander1971
      A very relevant and informative article.

      Very "varnished" and not informational. What MSRTs complex did the Tu-95RTs have and what "combat capabilities" did it have? Not a word, not a half word, but some "reasoning" on the topic .. "if my grandmother had ... and so on." wassat
  4. -11
    23 November 2020 06: 31
    Thanks to the author. It's not all that bad. He will give target designation to the Zircon and Daggers ...
    It should be borne in mind that when the time comes to sink the aircraft carriers, there will be no talk of any convection weapon.
    Well, who has a lot of these AUGs? And this someone will "swing" with us in a local war?
    1. +7
      23 November 2020 10: 18
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It's not all that bad.

      So far, it's sad. Development, of course, is underway, and this is good, but we all know perfectly well that they have every chance of getting stuck at the stage of prototype sketches for an indefinitely long time. Of particular concern is the electronic filling: here we are very far behind potential opponents.

      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It should be borne in mind that when the time comes to sink the aircraft carriers, there will be no talk of any convection weapon.

      Once I read that the Americans seem to have an agreement not to deploy CD with nuclear warheads on their ships. In this regard, the question is: do we have such CDs, in principle, still in combat readiness?

      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Well, who has a lot of these AUGs? And this someone will "swing" with us in a local war?

      So after all, not only AUGs are a source of threat: many other countries have rather strong fleets and not too friendly intentions. And the likelihood of unleashing a "small victorious war" of a local character, though not so great, is definitely not zero.
      1. -8
        23 November 2020 12: 15
        Quote: Kalmar
        The electronic filling is of particular concern: here we are very far behind potential opponents.

        Well, how do you know what electronics are in the brains of our drones? This electronics is produced by specialized enterprises, where they are not allowed to use a cell phone. And they do optics in the same way. At other enterprises. And this is not consumer goods. This is what is called "military" ... The fact that smartphones are not produced in Russia does not mean that ANY electronics are not made ...
        VO is not a place where you can call "names and passwords". You can chat in a personal, a little bit. To slightly dispel your gloomy ideas ... about the death of Russian precision weapons ...
        1. +5
          23 November 2020 14: 24
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          The fact that smartphones are not produced in Russia does not mean that ANY electronics are not made ...
          VO is not a place where you can call "names and passwords". You can chat in a personal, a little bit. To slightly dispel your gloomy ideas ... about the death of Russian precision weapons ...

          I am by no means claiming that electronics and the WTO in Russia are completely ruined: it is obvious that this is not so. But a serious lag in the development of computer technology is, alas, a fact. For a UAV, high-quality "brains" are a very important component; I would like to believe, however, that our military-industrial complex still has something to show in this regard.
          1. -8
            23 November 2020 14: 27
            Quote: Kalmar
            But a serious lag in the development of computer technology is, alas, a fact.

            And this is also not a fact. It's just a lack of information. This is also there, and is produced in considerable quantities. And I even know who and where ...
        2. +3
          23 November 2020 17: 58
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          Quote: Kalmar
          The electronic filling is of particular concern: here we are very far behind potential opponents.

          Well, how do you know what electronics are in the brains of our drones? This electronics is produced by specialized enterprises, where they are not allowed to use a cell phone. And they do optics in the same way. At other enterprises. And this is not consumer goods. This is what is called "military" ... The fact that smartphones are not produced in Russia does not mean that ANY electronics are not made ...
          VO is not a place where you can call "names and passwords". You can chat in a personal, a little bit. To slightly dispel your gloomy ideas ... about the death of Russian precision weapons ...


          Do you understand ...
          In these "specialized enterprises" our students and classmates work with you.
          Which we see during training, delivery of term papers and diplomas, etc.

          And believe me, not the best usually, because the salaries there are penny.
          Here is a vacancy from the KRET enterprise.
          Design Engineer
          JSC Almetyevsk plant Radiopribor
          Posted: 12 days ago
          20 thousand rubles per month
          Full employment
          The duties of an employee at the vacant position of "Design Engineer" include the following: design support for radio-electronic production (printed circuit boards, blocks, packaging, serial equipment); analysis of electrical circuits, troubleshooting; analysis of microwave circuits, troubleshooting; correction of working design documentation.
          The requirements for an employee for the position of "Design Engineer", presented by the employer "AO Almetyevsk Plant Radiopribor" in the city of Almetyevsk, are as follows:
          Education - higher technical (preferably "Design and production technology of electronic equipment") Knowledge of ESKD; work with design documentation; Confident work with the programs Compass-3D, PCAD, DIALUX, Word, Excel.
          The working conditions in the company "Almetyevsk Plant Radiopribor" at the vacant position "Engineer-constructor" are as follows: Registration according to the Labor Code of the Russian Federation, work schedule 5/2; 8:00 - 17:00 (break 12:00 - 13:00); Timely payment of wages; Salary 20 thousand rubles. ...

          The finish...
          What development in electronics will you continue to carry on with further correspondence?
          1. -5
            23 November 2020 18: 31
            Quote: SovAr238A
            What development in electronics will you continue to carry on with further correspondence?

            So what are you talking about? You judge by vacancies, but I supply equipment to these factories. And what and how they DO know. If not all, then a lot! Vacancies ... It's the same as judging the brand of a car by the brake lights at night ... And they don't carry on correspondence, but conduct ...
          2. -5
            23 November 2020 18: 47
            Quote: SovAr238A
            The finish...
            What development in electronics will you continue to carry on with further correspondence?

            I looked at vacancies at 4 factories known to me. None of the factories have salaries opposite to vacancies. All based on the results of the interview. The workers there do not complain about salaries. Two in Izhevsk, two in Ryazan. I'm not even talking about all sorts of Zelenograd. There are simply BIG salaries.
            1. 0
              23 November 2020 22: 53
              An acquaintance worked in Moscow. On paper, their salary is equal to the minimum wage, he left there because he wanted to take out a mortgage, and with such data, no one wanted to give. But the surcharge in the envelope was not big either. That is, they received about 20-30 in Moscow, where renting an apartment from 40 begins.
          3. 0
            24 November 2020 09: 14
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            Quote: Kalmar
            The electronic filling is of particular concern: here we are very far behind potential opponents.

            Well, how do you know what electronics are in the brains of our drones? This electronics is produced by specialized enterprises, where they are not allowed to use a cell phone. And they do optics in the same way. At other enterprises. And this is not consumer goods. This is what is called "military" ... The fact that smartphones are not produced in Russia does not mean that ANY electronics are not made ...
            VO is not a place where you can call "names and passwords". You can chat in a personal, a little bit. To slightly dispel your gloomy ideas ... about the death of Russian precision weapons ...


            Do you understand ...
            In these "specialized enterprises" our students and classmates work with you.
            Which we see during training, delivery of term papers and diplomas, etc.

            And believe me, not the best usually, because the salaries there are penny.
            Here is a vacancy from the KRET enterprise.
            Design Engineer
            JSC Almetyevsk plant Radiopribor
            Posted: 12 days ago
            20 thousand rubles per month
            Full employment
            The duties of an employee at the vacant position of "Design Engineer" include the following: design support for radio-electronic production (printed circuit boards, blocks, packaging, serial equipment); analysis of electrical circuits, troubleshooting; analysis of microwave circuits, troubleshooting; correction of working design documentation.
            The requirements for an employee for the position of "Design Engineer", presented by the employer "AO Almetyevsk Plant Radiopribor" in the city of Almetyevsk, are as follows:
            Education - higher technical (preferably "Design and production technology of electronic equipment") Knowledge of ESKD; work with design documentation; Confident work with the programs Compass-3D, PCAD, DIALUX, Word, Excel.
            The working conditions in the company "Almetyevsk Plant Radiopribor" at the vacant position "Engineer-constructor" are as follows: Registration according to the Labor Code of the Russian Federation, work schedule 5/2; 8:00 - 17:00 (break 12:00 - 13:00); Timely payment of wages; Salary 20 thousand rubles. ...

            The finish...
            What development in electronics will you continue to carry on with further correspondence?


            In fairness, it must be said that sometimes a bare salary is indicated in vacancies, while in fact the salary can consist of a salary, bonuses on the topic of 0,5-2 of the salary and / or quarterly bonuses, + 13 salaries, + bonuses for defense holidays, etc. .d.

            And please note that the job does not require work experience, i.e. This is the level of a university graduate without work experience, who in the first year will be able to receive 30-40 thousand rubles, for an experienced specialist 60-80 thousand rubles. is quite real. Certainly not in the same way as in commercial companies, but nowadays relative stability is a plus.

            PS All of the above does not mean that at the Almetyevsk plant Radiopribor everything is so, maybe there really is the entire salary of 20000, I have no information on it.
        3. The comment was deleted.
          1. -1
            23 November 2020 22: 56
            Quote: Imobile
            I know. This is not a secret. We cannot make anti-jamming microcircuits.

            You mean, radiation resistant? And who, then, makes the schemes for the SPS and KSDI? Well, gallium nitride on sapphire ...
            1. 0
              23 November 2020 23: 40
              And radio-resistant, there is a complete disaster. There is nothing to collect satellites on ...
              1. -1
                23 November 2020 23: 45
                Quote: Imobile
                And radio-resistant, there is a complete disaster. There is nothing to collect satellites on

                Well, we have arrived. And what is this Tomsk Micran doing? Well, and some more ...
                1. 0
                  24 November 2020 09: 17
                  Quote: Mountain Shooter
                  Quote: Imobile
                  And radio-resistant, there is a complete disaster. There is nothing to collect satellites on

                  Well, we have arrived. And what is this Tomsk Micran doing? Well, and some more ...


                  I don’t know what the Tomsk Micran is doing there, but Phobos-Grunt “crumbled” just because of the use of radiation-unstable microcircuits in it.
                  1. -1
                    24 November 2020 09: 33
                    Quote: AVM
                    I don’t know what the Tomsk Micran is doing there, but Phobos-Grunt “crumbled” just because of the use of radiation-unstable microcircuits in it.

                    Did you dig in the wreckage of Phobos? laughing Or "the commission found" violations? How is it possible, without seeing the object, to establish something reliably? Only "very likely" ...
    2. +7
      23 November 2020 10: 46
      As you know, the UAV fleet is not interested. They are only interested in building monsters, there are different SSBNs and sawing from this grandmother. Our parquet admirals do not understand aviation, they do not like it, and they wanted to see it in the grave. To date, the fleet has reliably bought one detachment of Outposts - 6 vehicles. More information was not found .. In total, at the beginning of this year, the RF Armed Forces bought at least 2300 UAVs.
      On the topic - from the point of view of a real war, as a naval reconnaissance agent to work in the interests of light forces and BRAV, an Orion-class apparatus is quite acceptable, subject to the appropriate avionics ...
      1. +1
        23 November 2020 11: 43
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        ...
        On the topic - from the point of view of a real war, as a naval reconnaissance agent to work in the interests of light forces and BRAV, an Orion-class apparatus is quite acceptable, subject to the appropriate avionics ...


        Its range is too small and its payload is too low. If only according to the principle "Without fish ...". And so "Sirius", "Helius" and "Altair" are better suited.
        1. +4
          23 November 2020 11: 48
          Quote: AVM
          If only according to the principle "Without fish ...".

          While this should be our main principle
      2. -1
        23 November 2020 14: 06
        It is probably more effective to launch several dozen special satellites into orbit to monitor and track the situation in the entire world ocean and detect enemy ships online.
        1. +2
          23 November 2020 15: 20
          Quote: Vadim237
          It is probably more effective to launch several dozen special satellites into orbit to monitor and track the situation in the entire world ocean and detect enemy ships online.


          To completely replace reconnaissance UAVs, there must be hundreds, perhaps thousands. And still, there may be scenarios when you can't do without a UAV.

          On the other hand, without satellites, communication satellites, the value of the UAV drops by an order of magnitude.
          1. -1
            23 November 2020 16: 32
            Quote: AVM
            On the other hand, without satellites, communication satellites, the value of the UAV drops by an order of magnitude.

            It is possible to neutralize this problem by combining a manned aircraft + several UAVs. For example Tu-214 and 3 UAVs of the Zond-1/2 type
            1. 0
              23 November 2020 19: 31
              Quote: OgnennyiKotik
              to neutralize this problem with a bundle of manned aircraft + several UAVs. For example Tu-214 and 3 UAVs of Zond-1/2 type


              Sound thought. There were already proposals to buy the Tu-214 out of the sludge, turn them off and convert them into basic patrol aircraft and tankers. But things are still there. The admiralty is not interested, they apparently crunch the loot from the construction of the nuclear submarine and the absolutely delusional Poseidon program.
              1. 0
                23 November 2020 19: 47
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                apparently with a crunch they saw the loot from the construction of the nuclear submarine and the crazy Poseidon program.

                Yes. It's the same with the Hunter.
                There is a simple way to take 2 AI-222-25 from Yak-130 or 1 deformed RD-93 (JF-17 / Mig-29), take avionics from ready-made aircraft, make a classic composite glider, install remote control equipment (with further modernization for autonomous) and a full-fledged reconnaissance / attack aircraft / light fighter with a full 3-5 ton payload is ready. Which will raise all our not very modern electronics.
                Instead, they saw the super duper C-70. An incomprehensible purpose, with extremely low capabilities and a horse price. But very impressive in parades.
                For Tu-214 the same story. We have a bunch of quite modern aircraft that can and should be used. But this is not enough money.
                1. 0
                  23 November 2020 20: 27
                  Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                  with extremely low opportunities


                  How do you know its capabilities? In my opinion, they decided to implement the program Su-57 automatic slave.And in this sense, the presence of Al-31 there is justified from the point of view of logistics.
                  1. 0
                    23 November 2020 20: 59
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    How do you know its capabilities?

                    When the original is there, the possibilities of the copy are predictable. The lack of normal satellite communications coverage and access to modern microelectronics add limitations. There will be a reconnaissance UAV controlled by radio or autonomously flying along a given route, with data unloading upon arrival. The shock version is doubtful, perhaps it will be after some time. What flew did not have compartments for weapons.
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    Su-57 automatic slave

                    This program is also needed for the Su-30/35. The benefit can be solved by hanging containers. But the “flying wing” scheme carries limitations on maneuverability and speed. On this scheme, “sharp” maneuvers, speeds close to the speed of sound, are simply not possible. The slave program implies the conduct of air combat, the protection of the leader. Active equipment and maneuvers will negate the “wing's” stealth advantages. There will be only one plus, high lift.
                    As a reconnaissance / long-range bomber, there are no questions to this scheme.
                    In the US Air Force, only the B-2 strategists remained and, in the future, the B-21 according to the flying wing scheme. All UAV projects with this scheme in the US Air Force and Navy ended with a refusal to be adopted into service or the choice of a UAV according to the classical scheme.
                    The only thing is that there are a couple of dozen RQ-170s operated by the command of special operations.

                    A slave UAV program is needed. But we need relatively cheap, mass-produced UAVs according to the classical scheme. If the deformed Al-31 is economically and operationally justified, then even if it is not important at all. All voiced engines are great.
    3. +7
      23 November 2020 10: 51
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It's not all that bad.

      Not just sad, but ... catastrophically .. "sad" in this regard ... both with "intelligence", with the MPA itself soldier
      1. +9
        23 November 2020 14: 41
        Quote: ancient
        Not just sad, but ... catastrophically .. "sad" in this regard ... both with "intelligence", with the MPA itself

        Sergey, hello to you from the Far East! The funny thing is that the "uryalki" still believe that the MPA exists and in its composition hundreds of aircraft. request
        1. +4
          23 November 2020 14: 48
          Quote: zyablik.olga
          Sergey, hello to you from the Far East!

          Olenka, love ! (I hope Sergei won't give ... angry) lol
          Did the element not capture you? belay
          1. +2
            23 November 2020 14: 53
            Quote: ancient
            Quote: zyablik.olga
            Sergey, hello to you from the Far East!

            Olenka, love ! (I hope Sergei won't give ... angry) lol
            Did the element not capture you? belay

            Seryozha is smart in this respect and is extremely adequate! smile In general, we were very lucky with each other! In terms of "elements", we are saved by the low population density, so you probably should have moved to Komsomolsk. wink
            1. +3
              23 November 2020 14: 58
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              it was worth moving to Komsomolsk.

              You have small potatoes there ... crying
              1. +3
                23 November 2020 15: 00
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                You have small potatoes there ...

                But the mushrooms are big and there are many bears ... lol
                1. +2
                  23 November 2020 15: 09
                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  But the mushrooms are big and there are many bears ...

                  Uh-huh ... I called my uncle:
                  - What are you doing?
                  - I'm eating a cat, I'm caught in a trap ... Lynx ...
                2. -1
                  23 November 2020 18: 01
                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  You have small potatoes there ...

                  But the mushrooms are big and there are many bears ... lol


                  Well, yes, teaching bears to plant and dig potatoes is the most ...
                  Even if it's small ...
            2. +1
              23 November 2020 15: 34
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              so you probably should have moved to Komsomolsk.

              It's too late to drink Borjomi .. when ...... wassat
  5. +6
    23 November 2020 07: 27
    Two main problems can be distinguished - the absence of the above-mentioned global encrypted jam-resistant satellite communications with high throughput and the absence of highly efficient economical aircraft engines.

    No.
    There is only one problem
    after a series of inspections and the initiation of a criminal case ... on charges of embezzling 900 million rubles allocated for the development of the UAV, was suspended from work ...
  6. +7
    23 November 2020 07: 54
    The topic of detecting and issuing target designation by AUG has recently become very topical, and heavy UAVs to some extent are able to solve this problem. But the respected author, talking about American and Russian developments in that area, for some reason forgot about the Chinese achievements. In my opinion, the UAV "Divine Eagle" and the Soaring Dragon "created in the PRC are very promising.
    1. +9
      23 November 2020 08: 21
      Quote: Tucan
      The topic of detecting and issuing target designation by AUG has recently become very topical, and heavy UAVs to some extent are able to solve this problem. But the respected author, talking about American and Russian developments in that area, for some reason forgot about the Chinese achievements. In my opinion, the UAV "Divine Eagle" and the Soaring Dragon "created in the PRC are very promising.


      You are right, UAVs are extremely interesting. I did not inflate the article on the UAVs of other countries, since the goal is rather to show which UAVs are possible in principle to track the AUG, and the American Global Hawk and MQ-4C Triton, together with powerful American satellite communication channels, can be considered a kind of "gold standard", and then show what we have in this field.

      And so yes, Chinese UAVs are extremely interesting.
    2. +3
      23 November 2020 10: 54
      Quote: Tucan
      heavy UAVs can solve this problem to some extent.

      Only in the modes of "Peacetime" ... in real conditions, all these UAVs will be destroyed at once soldier
      1. +2
        23 November 2020 11: 42
        Only in the modes of "PEACEFUL TIME" ... in real conditions all these UAVs will be destroyed at once soldier

        And what alternative do we have, at least for the future?
        1. +1
          23 November 2020 13: 54
          Quote: Tucan
          And what alternative do we have, at least for the future?

          I find it difficult to answer your question ... but to engage in conversations .. "here, here are 2 more circles .. Bill and we .. catch up with him" ... I do not want from the word .. at all crying
          If you use it now ... then to detect (autopsy) you can try to attract the A-50U ... if in the "strategic zone" ... then the Tu-22MR (if a pair of 3 pieces can be divided into fleets ... on the Black Sea Fleet you can and one .. there is enough of a Su-24MR for the eyes,), in the operational-tactical ... future Su-34MR (these are already practically there) .. well, in addition to them, all the same Su-24MR.
          All the other "long" LAs, possessing powerful radars, if on a "thin" one, they can carry out a passing R / L reconnaissance, but ... immediately "run" further wink
      2. -6
        23 November 2020 12: 28
        Quote: ancient
        Only in the modes of "Peacetime" ... in real conditions, all these UAVs will be destroyed at once

        And in real conditions ... what is it? Nuclear missile attack? Then missiles with special warheads will fly from the area where the AUG was at the time of the death of the UAV ... There, very high accuracy is not needed. laughing and even getting into the case is not required.
        1. +3
          23 November 2020 13: 56
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          And in real conditions ... what is it?

          "Gore" with the use of only OSB ..... if it comes to the use of a joint venture with SBCH .. then all the talk .. for "who is wider" .. I will already .. unnecessarily
          1. 0
            23 November 2020 14: 20
            Quote: ancient
            conversations .. have "who is wider" .. I will already .. unnecessarily

            Here I am about the same ...
  7. -5
    23 November 2020 08: 53
    High-altitude and medium-altitude UAVs of the HALE and MALE class with a long flight duration can effectively replace the decommissioned strategic reconnaissance aircraft Tu-95RTs when solving the problem of searching for AUG and KUG, as well as issuing target designation of anti-ship missiles to them.

    Of course, I would like the country's leadership to give this high priority.
    In general, if we approach the topic of UAV sensibly, then it is time to develop UAVs to replace our Kamov marine helicopters. They are too large for their tasks. And if we remove the helicopter hangar on our new project 20380 corvettes, replacing it with small / medium-sized UAVs, then the corvette can double its missile stock.
    1. 0
      23 November 2020 23: 08
      Andrey from Chelyabinsk said that it was not the hangar. I suggested not to make a separate hangar and a helipad on the envelopes, but to make a hangar, which, when the helicopter took off, would simply slide onto the hull of the launch silos (which would have stood in place of the hangar). not in a lack of free space, but in a small displacement. Although I thought that the ship was not an airplane, the extra 100-300 tons was not a hindrance to it
  8. +4
    23 November 2020 08: 53
    Not bad. Only about adaptive engines - by. The Global Hawk has an engine based on a "civilian" turbofan engine with a high bypass ratio. So an adaptive turbojet engine capable of changing BPR in the range of, say, 0,2-0,8 is not needed here at all, since his engine BPR ~ 5, which allows him to fly not very fast, but for a long time.
  9. +1
    23 November 2020 09: 29
    dear Andrey Mitrofanov brings up a relevant topic, the lag in UAVs is critical in all directions, which was shown by the conflict in NK .... it is urgent to create and mass-produce UAVs,
    1. +1
      23 November 2020 10: 54
      Quote: vladimir1155
      dear Andrey Mitrofanov brings up a relevant topic, the lag in UAVs is critical in all directions, which was shown by the conflict in NK .... it is urgent to create and mass-produce UAVs,
      They said that there is a company in Russia that makes very decent UAVs for Gazprom, but does not want to work for the military, because there is a lot of hemorrhoids, and the earnings are small.
      1. +2
        23 November 2020 11: 48
        Quote: bk0010
        Quote: vladimir1155
        dear Andrey Mitrofanov brings up a relevant topic, the lag in UAVs is critical in all directions, which was shown by the conflict in NK .... it is urgent to create and mass-produce UAVs,
        They said that there is a company in Russia that makes very decent UAVs for Gazprom, but does not want to work for the military, because there is a lot of hemorrhoids, and the earnings are small.


        I would assume that they are using imported components, primarily engines. If they go to the military, the tap will be immediately blocked with sanctions.
  10. 0
    23 November 2020 10: 29
    It's a pity Myasishchev's projects have sunk. Probably a long-range UAV could be created on the M17 / 55 platform.

    It is embarrassing that a UAV in peacetime can be shot down with impunity.
  11. +2
    23 November 2020 10: 47
    Quote: Kalmar
    In this regard, the question is: do we have such CDs, in principle, still in combat readiness?


    I personally would not give an answer to such questions.
  12. +2
    23 November 2020 10: 54
    Clear. There are insurmountable technological barriers on the way to replacing the Tu-95RTs.
  13. +6
    23 November 2020 11: 29
    I think anyway, ideally, you need a combination of UAVs and conventional reconnaissance aircraft. In the conventional Tu-214, in any case, much more equipment will fit. For in non-war time they will not attack him, but you still need to keep an eye on potential opponents. Yes, and in the pre-war too.
    1. 0
      23 November 2020 11: 34
      You can also consider the "conditional" Il96-400 ...
    2. +1
      23 November 2020 15: 24
      Quote: Comrade Y
      I think anyway, ideally, you need a combination of UAVs and conventional reconnaissance aircraft. In the conventional Tu-214, in any case, much more equipment will fit. For in non-war time they will not attack him, but you still need to keep an eye on potential opponents. Yes, and in the pre-war too.


      I totally agree.
      1. +2
        23 November 2020 23: 38
        Quote: AVM
        I totally agree.

        IL-20 shot down in Syria on September 18, 2018 would argue with you. Lost 15 crew members.
        1. 0
          24 November 2020 09: 20
          Quote: Saxahorse
          Quote: AVM
          I totally agree.

          IL-20 shot down in Syria on September 18, 2018 would argue with you. Lost 15 crew members.


          This is just a plus in the combination of a UAV and a control plane. The aircraft with the operators should not enter the air defense zone and cover themselves with the same Su-35, and UAVs should be sent into the "thick of battle".
          1. 0
            24 November 2020 18: 35
            Quote: AVM
            Quote: Saxahorse
            Quote: AVM
            I totally agree.

            IL-20 shot down in Syria on September 18, 2018 would argue with you. Lost 15 crew members.


            This is just a plus in the combination of a UAV and a control plane. The aircraft with the operators should not enter the air defense zone and cover themselves with the same Su-35, and UAVs should be sent into the "thick of battle".


            Without "Sphere" - about a high-quality remotely controlled UAV - do not even dream ...
    3. -1
      23 November 2020 16: 29
      Quote: Comrade Y
      equally ideally a combination of UAVs and conventional reconnaissance aircraft is needed.

      This is the solution to the communication problem. One conventional Tu-214 and 3 UAVs of the Zond-1/2 type will cover huge distances. The manned aircraft simply will not enter the AUG affected area.
    4. 0
      23 November 2020 23: 35
      Quote: Comrade Y
      In the conventional Tu-214, in any case, much more equipment will fit. For in non-war time they will not attack him, but you still need to keep an eye on potential opponents.

      During the period of exacerbations, they were shot down in dozens, in the 1950s and 60s. And later they were not too shy. The Swedes are still asking for the remnants of their Orion's crew to be returned. And the Korean Boeing was blasted by taking it for a scout. From the latter - our reconnaissance plane Il-20 shot down by Jews in Syria.
    5. +2
      28 November 2020 09: 00
      Comrade I - the article did not initially contain a clever idea - to drive aviation in search of AUG - is it because we are no longer able to maintain the satellite constellation in working order? So now and aviation, that the UAV, that manned without space will not do anything.
      Anti-submarine aviation is urgently needed, and huge surface ships are easily tracked from space ... unless of course there is something to track, and if not, then no UAVs will help.
  14. 0
    23 November 2020 11: 33
    It should be a UAV with an M-55 "Gefizika ...." airframe with a modern turbojet engine and materials based on composites.
  15. 0
    23 November 2020 13: 21
    The author correctly identified the main problems, one can add one more - the ongoing interspecific diversity of developments, which in principle can only be universal (global communication, control, reconnaissance and target designation).
  16. -1
    23 November 2020 14: 25
    If we speak in the format of an alternative history, then Russia could well bypass the United States in the creation of a UAV.

    In 2014, the Sukhoi Design Bureau announced the Zond-1 UAV project and its version of the Zond-2 early-range radar detection (AWACS) HALE class with a wingspan of 35 meters, a flight height of up to 16 kilometers and a flight duration of up to 24 hours. Two AI-222-25 turbojet engines (TRD), used on the Yak-130 training aircraft, were supposed to be used as engines.

    Thanks for the info. I wonder why such UAVs are not made. On its basis, it was possible and necessary to make a strike UAV.
    It looks like there are problems in the heads of the military, there are a lot of questions for them.
    For example, the Russian analogue Harop, although it was presented 4 years earlier, in 2005.
    1. +5
      23 November 2020 23: 10
      There was a very wide practice in the USSR. The designer makes a product that has no analogues (do not confuse it with false headlines in yellow newspapers today) There may not be everything brought to mind, but the main concept is new. The Politburo is turning this case over, we don't need it, there is no money in the country, and you are doing nonsense. After a few years it appears abroad. And then he comes to catch up and overtake, but where are they, they are ahead, and I take into account that there were tens of years from the concept in the union to the finished product, the lag was catastrophic
  17. 0
    23 November 2020 15: 59
    In 2014, KB "Sukhoi" announced the project of the UAV "Zond-1"

    EMNIP, "Sukhoi" still somewhere in the late 90s proposed a UAV, a very large, very high-altitude one, and it was called not a "probe", but somehow more decently. I do not remember if it is higher than 14 km, but at least at the level, that is, HALE or close to it. I think if it had been funded, Russian engineers would have done everything right.
    PS: The strange aircraft carrier in the first picture. Are there such? ..
  18. 0
    23 November 2020 20: 01
    Lord, are there really people who still believe that we will throw our hats ?!
    1. 0
      23 November 2020 22: 26
      Quote: Normal ok
      Lord, are there really people who still believe that we will throw our hats ?!


      they reproduce by budding.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. 0
    23 November 2020 23: 43
    Quote: AVM
    On the other hand, without satellites, communication satellites, the value of the UAV drops by an order of magnitude.

    I would like to hope that your next story will be about the "Sphere" promised to us for a long time. One and a half thousand communications and remote sensing satellites. Generally speaking, it is cheaper than an aircraft carrier or the Sochi Olympics. Rogozin just promised to provide the project.
  21. 0
    24 November 2020 08: 03
    The all-round radar with AFAR can scan 5200 square kilometers in one pass.


    Sounds scary at first glance. But we divide 5200 by pi, then we extract the square root: 41 kilometers. If we consider that the air defense escort ship will be moved 100 km in the direction of the threat, then the chances of seeing the aircraft carrier are close to zero.

    High resolution target discrimination is very useful for land warfare. At the forefront, the range of air defense systems is indeed much less than 40 km. Distinguishing tanks at night or hidden under maskets or simply among bushes and trees from a distance safe for the UAV itself is a gift. For this, these UAVs were made.
    1. 0
      24 November 2020 09: 28
      Quote: Sasha_rulevoy
      The all-round radar with AFAR can scan 5200 square kilometers in one pass.


      Sounds scary at first glance. But we divide 5200 by pi, then we extract the square root: 41 kilometers. If we consider that the air defense escort ship will be moved 100 km in the direction of the threat, then the chances of seeing the aircraft carrier are close to zero.

      High resolution target discrimination is very useful for land warfare. At the forefront, the range of air defense systems is indeed much less than 40 km. Distinguishing tanks at night or hidden under maskets or simply among bushes and trees from a distance safe for the UAV itself is a gift. For this, these UAVs were made.


      The viewing area does not tell about the range. The radar scans with a narrow beam in a circle, i.e. the image is obtained not of the entire area of ​​the circle, but of the area between the two circles. The resolution of 1 meter (or even 0,3 meters) is retained according to the declared data at a distance of over 200 km. Knowing about the tendency of the military to secret characteristics, I would assume more likely 300-350 km. What will be the detection range of a large surface target with a resolution of 10 meters?

      Radar RQ-4 Global Hawk in normal operation, it provides a radar image of the area with a resolution of 1 meter. In a day, an image can be obtained from an area of ​​138 thousand km² at a distance of 200 km. In "spotlight" mode, shooting an area of ​​2 x 2 km, over 24 images with a resolution of 1900 m can be obtained in 0,3 hours.
  22. 0
    25 November 2020 15: 23
    Quote: bayard

    So the hope in AUG reconnaissance will rely more on a passive radio-technical component ... But we know that the enemy is able to carry out his tasks even in the mode of complete (or almost complete) radio silence ...
    So far, only satellites remain.

    And what about over-the-horizon radars?
  23. 0
    28 November 2020 13: 32
    We need drones and it's time for us to speed up their creation and putting into service.
  24. 0
    29 November 2020 10: 16
    "The RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV radar allows a day to receive an image of an area of ​​138 thousand square kilometers from a distance of 200 kilometers with a resolution of 1 square meter, and in the spot mode, an image with a resolution of 0,3 square meters can be obtained. The information received is transmitted through a satellite communication channel. at speeds up to 50 Mbps. "
    until we can transfer the received data at the same speed to a server located in Russia, the usefulness of a UAV for reconnaissance over neutral waters is very conditional. it makes sense to reconnoiter if the data dies before reaching the "center"
    and the characteristics must be extended to a level higher than the Global Hawk, otherwise we will not see luck.
  25. 0
    29 November 2020 11: 30
    The conclusion of the author is not clear. Why drones should be made instead of 95s. Both unmanned and manned reconnaissance aircraft are needed, they complement each other. It is even possible to transfer control of the UAV to the crew of a manned reconnaissance aircraft.
    1. 0
      30 November 2020 16: 13
      Quote: serg v zapase
      The conclusion of the author is not clear. Why drones should be made instead of 95s. Both unmanned and manned reconnaissance aircraft are needed, they complement each other. It is even possible to transfer control of the UAV to the crew of a manned reconnaissance aircraft.


      Russian "Valkyrie": slave UAV "Thunder"
      https://topwar.ru/177481-russkaja-valkirija-vedomyj-bpla-grom.html
      1. 0
        1 December 2020 02: 36
        Thanks for the link. I wanted to say that it makes no sense to oppose manned and unmanned aircraft so far. When drones and their attendants cost 5-7 times cheaper than a manned vehicle, then ...
  26. +1
    30 November 2020 02: 55
    I read to the "three-circuit engine" and dropped it further.
    Stirlitz flogged nonsense, nonsense squealed softly - something like that is written
    1. 0
      30 November 2020 16: 21
      Quote: Bobik012
      I read to the "three-circuit engine" and dropped it further.
      Stirlitz flogged nonsense, nonsense squealed softly - something like that is written


      And what confused you? The very existence of a three-circuit turbojet engine? So the United States is already experiencing it:

      The American company GE Aviation will test a high-pressure compressor of a promising three-circuit adaptive turbojet engine for combat aircraft by the end of summer and early autumn 2016. This, according to Aviation Week, said the managing director of GE Aviation Advanced Combat Engine Dan McCormick.
      ...

      and Pratt & Whitney and Lockheed Martin have begun developing a project to modernize the engines of the F-35 Lightning II fighters. The F135 modernization project involves the addition of a third air circuit to the engine design. With an open third circuit, the engine will operate almost like a conventional turbofan, but with slightly higher thrust and significantly lower fuel consumption. For high flight speeds and maximum thrust, the third circuit will close. In cruise mode, fuel consumption will be reduced by 20 percent compared to the base F135.


      Or is it used on a UAV?
  27. 0
    1 December 2020 12: 40
    I saw the new achievement of invisibility I thought of something myself.
    air defense can destroy an invisible plane
  28. 0
    1 December 2020 12: 41
    I saw the new achievement of invisibility I thought of something myself.
    air defense can destroy an invisible plane?
  29. 0
    1 December 2020 12: 42
    I saw the new achievement of invisibility I thought of something myself.
    air defense can destroy an invisible plane?
  30. 0
    1 December 2020 12: 43
    Can the uav be compared to an auto uav? (unguided uav)
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. 0
    1 December 2020 12: 44
    I saw the new achievement of invisibility I thought of something myself.
    air defense can destroy an invisible plane?
    uav can be compared with auto uav? (uncontrolled uav)
  33. 0
    1 December 2020 14: 52
    how to delete your comment
    1. 0
      3 January 2021 22: 48
      Quote: realist
      "The RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV radar allows a day to receive an image of an area of ​​138 thousand square kilometers from a distance of 200 kilometers with a resolution of 1 square meter, and in the spot mode, an image with a resolution of 0,3 square meters can be obtained. The information received is transmitted through a satellite communication channel. at speeds up to 50 Mbps. "
      until we can transfer the received data at the same speed to a server located in Russia, the usefulness of a UAV for reconnaissance over neutral waters is very conditional. it makes sense to reconnoiter if the data dies before reaching the "center"
      and the characteristics must be extended to a level higher than the Global Hawk, otherwise we will not see luck.

      No question, if you are looking for an aircraft carrier in the ocean, then there is no need to transmit data at the speed of the repeater satellite, the speed of the phone is enough, even a short text message is enough that the desired item is found in the square # xx. the problem is that the AUG can detect the drone earlier,
  34. DO
    0
    10 March 2022 13: 37
    Yes, all these projects are impressive.
    But what about today, when a military confrontation with Ukraine has begun, and there is no guarantee that this confrontation will not develop into a conflict with the technological countries of the West?
    What can be done quickly?
    It is clear that from an urgent need to organize a tactical radar reconnaissance network - based on Altius with an overhead radar; for long-range detection - to speed up the commissioning of as many A-50s as possible.
    Returning to the Tu-95 mentioned in the article, in terms of its aerodynamics and carrying capacity / power-to-weight ratio, it is well suited for long loitering AWACS aircraft. Such an aircraft could carry a large number of UAV relays, in case the enemy destroys the satellite constellation. Perhaps it is worth thinking about an unmanned version of such an aircraft, replacing pilots and operators with an onboard computer system of the required power. Moreover, the operators, of course, should be replaced in the first place, due to the lack of places for the size of the team, like the A-50.
    It would be nice to replace the prohibitively noisy Tu-95 engines with engines for civil aircraft with a thrust of 14 tons.