Military Review

The history of the tank "NI"

186
When I sing about wide open spaces
About the sea calling to foreign lands.

About the gentle sea, about happiness and sorrow,
I sing about you, my Odessa!
(Isaac Dunaevsky. Operetta "White Acacia")


Monument to NI in Odessa


Military glory of Odessa. I'll start, perhaps, with the fact that as a child I was very fond of operetta. He knew all the operettas that were shown on TV, enjoyed watching "Rose-Marie" by Friml and Stotgart, the operetta by Kalman and Strauss, "Free Wind" (both the 1961 film and the production of I. Dunaevsky), and "Kiss of Chanita" by Yuri Milyutin and Evgeny Shatunovsky.

And among them, one of my favorites was "White Acacia" by I. Dunaevsky, where there was a very funny negative character Tuzik, played by actor Mikhail Vodyanoy, better known as Popandopulo from the film adaptation of Boris Alexandrov's operetta "Wedding in Malinovka". And there was a very beautiful song that I really liked.

So, when after the end of the 9th grade I was offered with a group of schoolchildren-activists from the Penza Palace of Culture named after Kirov to go to Odessa, I, of course, agreed. Two weeks in Odessa was wonderful. The sea, the sun, excellent popsicles, museums, the Odessa theater, the catacombs - all this was shown to us.

And yet ... we once drove past a strange monument. The guide told us:

"And this is the tank" NI "-" Fear ". Such Tanks Odessans during the war years made from tractors and smashed with them the German fascist invaders! "

But this tank (which looks more like a box) did not impress us then. We looked at him and ... drove on.


The model of the tank "NI" in the "rubber kit" version, produced in the 90s by the Penza enterprise NIIFI. Scale 1:35

This is how I first saw this tank on a pedestal and then completely forgot about it.

"Broneurodtsy" for the British


And then 1989 came. I became a member of the British Association of Armored Vehicle Modelers M.A. FVA And the British asked me to write them an article about some little-known Soviet tank.

And then I remembered that in the special depositories of the Lenin Library I had seen Stephen Pledges's book about Soviet armored vehicles. And there are projections of this unusual tank. I wrote to Odessa to the museum, to DOSAAF. I took a referral from them to the special depositories of the Lenin Library, received a coveted book with a chipboard stamp and with my tank "NI" or "Fear". Based on material from the book Pledges, plus what was sent to me from the museum in Odessa, plus drawings made from photographs, my very first article in the magazine "Tanchette" turned out. And the British liked it.

Then I collected everything I could on this tank. Photographed his remakes in Kiev and in Kubinka. And he wrote about these armored men already in the magazine "Tekhnika-Molodezhi".

How "NI-1" and "NI-2" were destroyed in Penza


And then our Penza became famous already in the 90s, as a center for the production of "rubber kit" models. Five firms then made such models here.

And among them was even such a large enterprise as the Research Institute of Physical Measurements, which was engaged in the production of measuring sensors for our spaceships. But he needed currency, so they invited me to earn it for them.

And I offered them, again, to produce models of tanks "NI" in the "rubber whale" version. One tank according to S. Zalogi's drawings, and the other - according to our drawings based on photographs already published by that time in the magazine "Tankomaster": "NI-1" and "NI-2".

They said - "it is necessary". And it was done. Models "go". And (at a cost price of 100 rubles per model) they were sold abroad for $ 40.

People from Switzerland and England came directly. We gave them vodka to drink. And they sold our "NI" boxes. And there, at home, they were already reselling them for $ 80. And everyone was happy.

And then complaints about the deteriorated quality came from the West. And our models stopped buying.

He began to look for the reason. And it turned out to be the same "scoop" that had eaten into the flesh and blood of our workers. The fact is that injection molds wear out gradually. And then it is necessary to make new ones according to the master model. But this master model is locked in the production manager's safe. I have to go to the second floor and ask.

And so our workers got into the habit of removing the molds from the last casting. Naturally, defects accumulated on the castings. But at first they did not go beyond a certain amount, and consumers did not notice the loss of quality. And here - with each new casting the dimensions “walked” more and more. And it all ended with the fact that the parts completely stopped joining one another. Complaints and critical articles poured in. And the models eventually stopped ordering.

Now you can put video cameras and track the work in the shop. But then such devices did not exist yet. And by the time I figured out what was going on, the production of "NI-1" and "NI-2" had already simply perished. Well, I could not even imagine that people "saw the branch on which they sit." It turns out that this was possible with us. Then the management of NIIFI concluded a number of lucrative contracts for "serious products" and did not resume the production of models.

The history of the tank "NI"

In the 80s, this scheme of the "NI" tank from the book of S. Zalogi and J. Grandsen was almost a revelation. But the book itself was in the special storage of the Lenin Library, and it was impossible for “ordinary people” to get it.

"For my native Odessa!"


I am very sorry that then I had a film camera, and the photos he took of dioramas with these tanks completely faded, like the film itself. On one - the tank "NI" with the inscription on the armor "For native Odessa!" walked through the rows of barbed wire, and together with him sailors and soldiers from the first sets of our firm "Zvezda" fled into the attack. On the second diorama, the Romanian soldiers were already sitting in the trench, and the NI tank and our sailors were crushing them with terrible force. There were no kits of Romanian soldiers at that time, but again I made them myself - from "zvezdinets".

So "NI" had a chance to play a rather noticeable role in my life, and gradually information about it was accumulated on a pretty decent article for VO.

First of all, we note that "NI" was one of the many makeshift tanks during the Second World War. Due to the lack of tanks in Odessa in 1941, Soviet workers at one of the Odessa factories began to produce it on the basis of a tractor. And it turned out that, despite their primitive design, these tanks achieved excellent combat results in battles with Romanian soldiers. Their cultural significance and symbolism (in the post-war Ukrainian SSR and in the USSR as a whole) is confirmed by the creation of at least four replicas (although each very inaccurate) and two films dedicated to the defense of Odessa with these tanks as the basis of the plot.

Interestingly, "NO" had no official designation. In the book "Soviet Tanks and Fighting Vehicles of the Second World War" by S. Zalogi and J. Grandsen, very little has been written about it, and as far as its name is concerned, there is complete confusion.

The overwhelming majority of reliable information about the tank is taken from the memoirs of the Marshal of the Soviet Union Nikolai Ivanovich Krylov "Eternal glory, defense of Odessa, 1941". During the defense of Odessa, he was a colonel and held the position of chief of the operational department of the army, and after August 21, 1941 - chief of staff of the Primorsky army. His memoirs contain excellent first-hand evidence. And others simply do not exist, because after the capture of Odessa by German-Romanian troops, all Soviet archives were destroyed.


Odessa "NI" today. Photo of 2017

In 1941, due to a sudden enemy offensive, most factories in dangerous areas (such as Odessa) were evacuated along with most of their heavy equipment. The few remaining machines in Odessa were to be used to repair tanks, but no more. There was an acute shortage of skilled labor, because men were drafted into the army. This meant that women and untrained youth worked in factories.

Nevertheless, by the end of August, twenty Odessa factories established mass production of various weapons... For example, improvised trench flamethrowers from cylinders for soda water and even anti-tank and anti-personnel mines from tin cans (hence their somewhat humorous names "Caviar", "Halva", etc.).

In general, the Red Army suffered greatly in Odessa from a lack of firepower and (especially) a meager number of tanks. At the beginning of the war, there were about 70 tanks, mainly T-37, T-26 and BT. But most of them were shot down as a result of fierce fighting on the outskirts of the city in the first days of the siege, because the Romanians attacked the city almost daily. These 70 tanks were repeatedly repaired and even subjected to additional armor.

Krylov recalls that at least three damaged tanks were loaded onto trucks and sent to the rear of the Soviet troops for repairs at the Yanvarsky Vosstaniya plant.


A shot from a staged film dedicated to the defense of Odessa. Tanks "NI" leave the factory

Tanks from tractors: "Yanvarets" and "Chernomor"


The mechanical plant of the Yanvarsky Uprising was, perhaps, the most equipped plant in Odessa. And by that time he had already produced a thousand 50-mm and two hundred 82-mm mines for mortars, as well as at least one improvised armored train. And here on it P.K. Romanov (chief engineer of the plant) and captain U.G. Kogan (an engineer for artillery devices, later transferred to the headquarters of the Odessa defense region) decided to turn several tractors into tanks.

The idea of ​​"tractor tanks" was met with some disbelief. But three STZ-5 tractors were still allocated for the experiment. Captain Kogan received a letter stating that all city organizations should help find the necessary materials for this experiment. A drilling and lathe was found in the local tram workshop, and the necessary welding equipment was also obtained. It is unlikely that it was planned to standardize their production from the very beginning. But several photographs of "NI" that have come down to us show us a fairly high level of such standardization.


Scheme of the "NI" tank from the "Tankomaster" magazine, taken from photographs. It's nice that even Wikipedia uses it today, including the English language. And for the first time these projections appeared in the English magazine "Tanquette": 1 - hull, 2 - side parts of the hull, 3 - engine compartment, 4 - turret, 5 - mud flaps, 6 - undercarriage armored shields, 7 - machine gun mask, 8 - machine gun DShK, 9 - mounting eye, 10 - tool box, 11 - exhaust pipe, 12 - frame side consoles, 13 - front frame sheet, 14 - tow hook, 15 - tension wheel, 16 - support roller, 17 - drive wheel, 18 - carriage roller, 19 - DT machine gun

The first three NI tanks were ready within ten days and were presented to the military on August 20. The first two of them were armed with two DT machine guns, and the third - a 37-mm mountain gun. This is referred to in two films, and researchers refer to it as historical fact.

According to another source, a worker wrote Death to Fascism on the side of the tank in chalk. It is reported that two more released tanks "NI" were called "Yanvarets" and "Chernomor".

According to newsreels, the tank left the factory and was immediately presented by the factory workers to the officers and sailors. The tank demonstrated a 360-degree turn. Due to the engine rattling, it made a terrible noise when driving.

Prototypes "NI" (which at that time were not yet called) were sent to the southern defense sector of the city along with the repaired "real" tank. But what kind of tank it was is unknown.

There is no exact data on when exactly the tanks were tested in battle. But according to combat reports, it may have happened between August 28 and September 3.

The crews of the NI tanks consisted of volunteers - sailors, soldiers, and reportedly even factory workers familiar with the vehicles.

After the first tractor tanks returned after a successful baptism of fire, the Military Council immediately ordered the construction of 70 more such tanks. Why their production was organized at three more factories.

To be continued ...
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 17 November 2020 18: 11
    10
    Shpakovsky, as always, accompanies the articles with good illustrations and drawings.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok 17 November 2020 20: 53
      +2
      However, there is an inaccuracy. In the article: “At the beginning of the war there were about 70 tanks, mainly T-37, T-26 and BT. But most of them were destroyed as a result of fierce battles on the outskirts of the city ... In the reality of battles on the outskirts There was no Odessa at all. The battles were fought no closer than 25 km from Odessa and then at the very end of the city's defense.
  2. Theodore
    Theodore 17 November 2020 18: 12
    +6
    Krylov recalls that at least three damaged tanks were loaded onto trucks

    Please ! Indicate the make of the trucks of the time capable of taking those tanks away! Not disassembled.
    1. kalibr
      17 November 2020 18: 54
      -2
      Quote: Theodore
      Please ! Indicate the make of the trucks of the time capable of taking those tanks away! Not disassembled.

      Who remembers, to that and contact!
      1. Mister X
        Mister X 17 November 2020 21: 29
        +2
        hi
        I saw this tank in Odessa, 35 years ago.
        The guide told us that the hulls of some tanks were made of plywood.
        It happened that an enemy shell pierced through the "armor" of the NI tank, and it was torn far behind.

        Vyacheslav Olegovich,
        You didn't answer my question about Westley Richards' monkey tail pistols.
        1. kalibr
          18 November 2020 11: 17
          -2
          Quote: Mister X
          You didn't answer my question about Westley Richards' monkey tail pistols.

          Sorry and try again. Preferably in a personal. There is no time to search.
          1. Mister X
            Mister X 19 November 2020 11: 18
            +2
            I got your answer, thank you!
            The second day messages are not sent to PM, so I write the answer here.
            Good Luck!
            1. kalibr
              19 November 2020 12: 11
              -2
              Didn't know that. Amazing ...
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 November 2020 20: 42
      +5
      Quote: Theodore
      Krylov recalls that at least three damaged tanks were loaded onto trucks

      Please ! Indicate the make of the trucks of the time capable of taking those tanks away! Not disassembled.

      Before you ask for something, take an interest in the weight of NO, then the answer will be obvious to you!
      Regards, Kote!
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 November 2020 21: 31
        +2
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Before demanding anything, ask about the weight of NI

        about 7 tons, according to any wikipedia. Although, of course, this is approximate.
        But even this is a lot for the then trucks.
        Although, in this passage
        At the beginning of the war, there were about 70 tanks, mainly T-37, T-26 and BT. But most of them were shot down as a result of fierce fighting on the outskirts of the city in the first days of the siege, because the Romanians attacked the city almost daily. These 70 tanks were repeatedly repaired and even subjected to additional armor.

        Krylov recalls that at least three damaged tanks were loaded onto trucks and sent to the rear of the Soviet troops for repairs at the Yanvarsky Vosstaniya plant.

        As far as I understand, we are talking about standard tanks.
        Well, the T-37, wherever it went, this misunderstanding on the ZiS-6 can be taken away (if available, of course). And the T-26 and BT ...
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 05: 12
          +3
          T-26, BT-5 and BT-7, I think definitely in the back can not be taken away. The latest modifications have fed up to almost 10 tons.
          But NOR, as you noted, with an approximate weight of 7 tons, could be dragged away on the Yaroslavl YAG-6. Let the YAG-6 and five-ton, but the tractor and the tank fit into the dimensions of the body, and the rest is "the war is not an aunt," especially if it is outside the gates of the plant.
  3. SaLaR
    SaLaR 17 November 2020 18: 13
    +1
    I saw this tank in Odessa ... an interesting specimen .. The goal for invention is cunning ..))
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 17 November 2020 18: 57
      +1
      Quote: SaLaR
      I saw this tank in Odessa ... an interesting specimen .. The goal for invention is cunning.

      Whatever it was, but the people created a combat vehicle in the most difficult conditions. OUR SOVIET PEOPLE, defended their city. But it was not the Ukrainian people, but the Soviet people. And who will defend Odessa now?
      1. SaLaR
        SaLaR 17 November 2020 19: 19
        +2
        nobody ... The broom was dismissed on twigs .... whoever wants to break it ........... sad
        1. kalibr
          17 November 2020 20: 28
          +4
          Quote: SaLaR
          nobody ... The broom was dismissed on twigs ... who wants to break it

          Do volunteers defend the Motherland? Since when? The state has every opportunity to put in line everyone it wants, to send where it needs to and ... forward to the attack - mother, mother, mother ... or according to the laws of wartime, for the displayed cowardice ... Neither consciousness is needed, neither high morality, nor belief in communism! We got up and went - mother, mother, mother ... So no need to talk about twigs!
          1. SaLaR
            SaLaR 17 November 2020 21: 37
            -1
            It's one thing when you protect Homeland.. and another when country which is on you ...
            1. kalibr
              18 November 2020 11: 14
              -6
              Quote: SaLaR
              It's one thing when you defend your Motherland ... and it's another thing when the country is on you ...

              You will not care in which ravine you will be shot for ... Understand, finally, that the STATE HAS HUGE POWER, Motherland, Ugly - he does not care! He will order - you will go to defend Chubais's dacha and will defend it well, because you have a family behind you and if something goes wrong ... well, I understand.
              1. VORON538
                VORON538 18 November 2020 14: 48
                -4
                Are you already in the trenches at Chubais's dacha for your refrigerator? wink
                Who needs it, that dacha. Take it in the ring, go out yourself
                resist is not yours, the refrigerator is more important
                1. kalibr
                  18 November 2020 14: 54
                  -1
                  Artem, what are you like a child, really. They will take you in the ring ... The point is that the state can easily force you to die for anything and will not even ask your desire. Say no?
                  1. VORON538
                    VORON538 18 November 2020 15: 03
                    -1
                    And what or who will prevent me from saying “no,” Chubais? I understand that you can use many factors of influence, but for example, it smells like terrorism on a family, and who can say how a particular person will behave in a given situation? But have you already taken a place in the trench behind Chubais's dacha? For the refrigerator. Judging by today's article, with comfort. You will provoke people.
                    1. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 17: 41
                      0
                      Say "no" to the commander in a combat situation and ... you are guaranteed a ravine for cowardice. Because the commander does not care what the task is. He has an order, but the order must be carried out. And then some private is clever ... First in the face, then according to the laws of military opinion.
                    2. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 20: 25
                      -1
                      Artem! And how do you like this: On the Leningrad Front, on the special message of the 3rd Department of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet dated 25.09.1941/2/XNUMX "On cases of desertion and desertion in the XNUMXnd Marine Brigade", the commander of the Leningrad Front Georgy Zhukov imposed the following resolution: " KBF. Eliminate this shameful phenomenon urgently. Apparently, the Military Council has not done anything serious so far. Explain to all personnel that all families of those who surrendered to the enemy will be shot and upon their return from captivity they will also be shot. ”
                      1. Storekeeper
                        Storekeeper 21 November 2020 18: 56
                        +1
                        My grandfather said: "If you die in an attack, your family will continue to receive food rations, and if you are captured or shot as a deserter, the family will not receive rations and will starve to death." A primitive method of coercion. "There is no difference where to die, but the family will have a chance to survive. And not everyone died in the attack, it was possible to survive." Maybe not quite literally, but I conveyed the meaning of his words. The state, if it wishes, can force it to do whatever it wants: to work until the age of 65, to attack machine guns, to wear a mask, etc. Here you Vyacheslav Olegovich are absolutely right and there is nothing to argue about.
                      2. kalibr
                        21 November 2020 19: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Storekeeper
                        Here you Vyacheslav Olegovich are absolutely right and there is nothing to argue about.

                        And yet people argue, right? Although obviously there is nothing ...
                2. SaLaR
                  SaLaR 18 November 2020 21: 03
                  -2
                  It's one thing to go to defend with faith in the Motherland ... and it's another to make money as best you can from protecting the refrigerator ... in the First World War, they just stupidly threw the front line with divisions and left ..
                  1. kalibr
                    19 November 2020 17: 42
                    -3
                    Quote: SaLaR
                    stupidly, divisions threw the front line and left

                    And in the Great Patriotic Division, those who retreated without orders were bombed from planes, and then ... they shot their soldiers through one as cowards and traitors!
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 18: 49
                      +4
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And in the Great Patriotic Division, the divisions that left without orders were bombed from planes,

                      Is there any proof of such nonsense? Only Osprey, Tornado and other Air Force do not bring.
                    2. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 19: 36
                      -1
                      Basil! And you still reproach me for the "navel of the earth". In my opinion, only "navel" can write "nonsense" without listening to the opponent. Is not it? In 1995, this book came out. This is not Osprey or BBS.

                      It was about it.
                      And here is her team of authors:
                    3. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 19: 45
                      +3
                      These authors, of course, are very respected people, but instead of showing a photo of the page with the indication of the authors, it would be much easier and more convincing for you to give a photo of the page where it is said about such a bombing. Or do you prefer to act in a style not for the night of the aforementioned Carbine - I said, and you yourself, wherever you want, look for evidence there?
                    4. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 19: 51
                      -1
                      Maybe I need you to scan the whole book? Do not hesitate, from the "navel" it is possible and not such to demand, is not it.
                    5. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 19: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Maybe I need you to scan the whole book? Do not hesitate, from the "navel" it is possible and not such to demand, is not it.

                      What I was talking about, instead of proving a fake, the usual verbiage.
                    6. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 20: 13
                      -1
                      You see, Vasily, I got this book in ... cut form (it was published in 95), apparently, some student did a lot of work. Therefore, I do not have all the pages in it. But this example is no worse. I can also cite about extrajudicial shootings ... And I will look about the bombing. Not all at once.

                      So the second part of my comment got confirmed, right? Is the first one left? I promise that I will look, not find, I will inform you - either yes or no.
                    7. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 20: 23
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      So the second part of my comment got confirmed, right?

                      So I did not argue about the second part, I just expressed surprise that the shooting in front of the retreating line leads to such negative conditions.
                      For the first part, I'm waiting.
                    8. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 20: 35
                      0
                      Quote: Alf
                      For the first part, I'm waiting.

                      Rome is a time of savagery. Our time is still the world of a new historical community, etc. And then ... why did you decide that this is terrifying? I did not write to you, I wrote to SaLaR (SaLaR) that the state has a way to force people to do what it needs. Then he gave this example: On the Leningrad Front, on the special message of the 3rd Department of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet dated 25.09.1941/2/XNUMX "On cases of desertion and desertion in the XNUMXnd Marine Brigade", the commander of the Leningrad Front Georgy Zhukov imposed the following resolution: "To the Military Council KBF. Eliminate this shameful phenomenon urgently. Apparently, the Military Council has not done anything serious so far. Explain to all personnel that all families of those who surrendered to the enemy will be shot and upon their return from captivity they will also be shot. ”
                      We are already talking about families. And it will not be difficult for you to check this information. I will also look at the first part. There was this somewhere ...
                    9. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 20: 45
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Rome - a time of savagery

                      Absolutely agree. Here are just "savages" created that Roman law, which the whole society has been using for 2 years without fundamental changes.
                      Forward.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      why did you decide that this is terrifying?

                      Since the modern mention of this is necessarily served with a sauce about bloody gebne. And this despite the fact that the unit commander MUST apply ALL measures when retreating without an order, deserting or fleeing from the battlefield.
                    10. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 20: 52
                      -1
                      Quote: Alf
                      And this despite the fact that the unit commander MUST take ALL measures when retreating without an order, deserting or fleeing from the battlefield.

                      Didn't I write about the same SaLaR (SaLaR)?
                    11. SaLaR
                      SaLaR 19 November 2020 21: 05
                      -1
                      and who can prevent me from becoming not the one who will be shot ... and those who will shoot ... if a person does not want to fight, then he will take every slightest chance to avoid it .. a person who fights for his homeland that respects him is not will be..he will fight !!!!
                    12. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 21: 46
                      -1
                      Nobody, of course ... But you remember what we talked about from the very beginning ...
                    13. SaLaR
                      SaLaR 19 November 2020 21: 49
                      0
                      An army that fights by conviction and an army that fights under duress can never be compared ...
                    14. kalibr
                      21 November 2020 19: 21
                      0
                      Quote: SaLaR
                      An army that fights by conviction and an army that fights under duress can never be compared ...

                      If they have equal shares. And if those who are convinced of one rifle for two, they will not fight much!
                    15. SaLaR
                      SaLaR 21 November 2020 20: 01
                      +1
                      Well, yes .. remember who had a rifle for two .. from the United States or from Vietnam? Count up .. fought ...)))
                    16. kalibr
                      21 November 2020 21: 38
                      -1
                      Let me remind you that it is not customary to poke on VO for strangers. This is a manifestation of low culture. This is the first! Second, who was behind Vietnam and how did you help it?
                    17. The comment was deleted.
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                4. Essex62
                  Essex62 23 November 2020 17: 13
                  0
                  We helped a lot of people, helped a lot, with money and modern weapons. Only the Vietnamese succeeded. And they did not force them to be driven, by themselves, by themselves, by themselves. Pull on such a colossal thing as crazy, you know, you know ...
  • Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 19 November 2020 16: 29
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Artem, what are you like a child, really. They will take you in the ring ... The point is that the state can easily force you to die for anything and will not even ask your desire. Say no?

    Sure! But still fight for the Motherland or fight for the state. There is a difference....
    Who loves the Motherland of those who do not love the state (c)
    ps Thanks for the article, interesting.
    1. kalibr
      19 November 2020 17: 44
      0
      Quote: Grim Reaper
      But still, fight for the Motherland or fight for the state. There is a difference....

      Of course there is. But you understand that in the Second World War, not everyone who went to the front adored Stalin. For example, the militia of the Moscow professors. Yes, there were former ones through one ... but let's go ?!
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 23 November 2020 17: 10
        0
        Were they forced, or themselves?
      2. kalibr
        23 November 2020 17: 12
        -1
        Quote: Essex62
        Were they forced, or themselves?

        Sami, voluntarily. But what each of them thought about himself and the environment, we do not know. Vernadsky did not go, he was old. What did you write in your diaries?
      3. Essex62
        Essex62 23 November 2020 19: 18
        0
        They did not like the state, they went for the Motherland. Not prepared armchair worms. They thought correctly, since they themselves. And the punishment for violation of the oath, in wartime, is severely punished in all amiyas of the world. But the family has nothing to do with it.
      4. kalibr
        23 November 2020 19: 30
        0
        Quote: Essex62
        They did not like the state, they went for the Motherland.

        Exactly. This is what I wanted to say. But I didn’t write about families, but G. Zhukov. See above on the branch ...
  • Machito
    Machito 17 November 2020 18: 17
    -2
    The Romanians could not knock out the NI tanks, because the plywood pierced through without a shell explosion.
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok 17 November 2020 20: 56
      +2
      Quote: Bearded
      The Romanians could not knock out the NI tanks, because the plywood pierced through without a shell explosion.

      The plywood was not there. The NI tank was armored with ship sheet steel taken from the Odessa naval base.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 November 2020 21: 08
      13
      Quote: Bearded
      The Romanians could not knock out the NI tanks, because the plywood pierced through without a shell explosion.

      Yesterday I was glad that I read the article and comments about revolver carbines without bad comments. Today seams, opus garbage.
      Question to Borodach, do you at least represent the STZ tractor? In the manufacture of NI, such a tight arrangement was used that one of the crew's boats lay on a mattress above the tracked shelf. So if the tanks were plywood, through hits would be unlikely. And I don’t think that the inhabitants of Odessa, in the defense of their city, began to hack. Moreover, all the sources indicated the stocks of ship armor that were used for an armored train, shielding of serial tanks and babies NI!
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 10: 09
        +4
        In the manufacture of the NI, the arrangement was so tight that one of the crew's boats lay on a mattress above the tracked shelf.

        Hmm .. EMNIP, one machine gunner had the same place on the "New Zealand analogue" - "Bob Sample's tank". Also lying on the mattress above the engine.
        Sorry to mention this tank again in vain.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 10: 28
          +4
          Well, there Nikolai was generally impromptu, only corrugated iron armor was worth what !!! laughing
          Our NIs were much more thoughtful !!!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 10: 51
            +4
            Our NIs were much more thoughtful !!!

            and also much cheaper and much more technologically advanced - judging by the mass. Than four years to nag spend an island budget on one armored bulldozer. laughing
        2. kalibr
          18 November 2020 11: 11
          +4
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          "Bob Sample's Tank". Also lying on the mattress above the engine.
          Sorry to mention this tank again in vain.

          There was also my article about this "tank" in Tankomaster and somewhere else ... I would not want to repeat myself and write for the sake of novelty on Advego-Plagiatus!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 11: 45
            +5
            There was also my article about this "tank" in Tankomaster and somewhere else ... I would not want to repeat myself and write for the sake of novelty on Advego-Plagiatus!

            She was in "Engineering and Armament" for 1999. I first read it on Bronesayte Chobitka about twelve years ago - it is there even now. Ryabov posted an article about this armored bulldozer on VO in 2016, and, as far as I understand, used your material.
            Did you translate the cartoon, Vyacheslav Olegovich? hi
            1. kalibr
              18 November 2020 11: 58
              +2
              Of course it's me! I wrote in the early 90s to the New Zealand Ministry of Defense and they sent me everything that they had. It was a good time! You write, and everyone answers you, they try to help ... Australia - Pukapunual, Indonesia - Jakarta - everything went to TANKOMASTER and "Military Knowledge". By the way, in 90 there was a series of my articles about uniforms with Zeynalov's drawings ... Look at their archive. Interesting! And in TECHNOLOGY and WEAPON, I was in the credits for several years in the editors.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 12: 23
                +3
                And in TECHNOLOGY and WEAPON, I was in the credits for several years in the editors.

                There are archives of magazines in open sources, I looked through. Did you work with Sheps then? He drew you a selection of Italian equipment from WWII times. How were the drawings sent? The Internet, nevertheless, was not the same then as it is now.
                1. kalibr
                  18 November 2020 12: 32
                  +2
                  Oh-oh-oh, it was the CORRESPONDENCE of the century, I received magazines from Japan in amazing durable envelopes, sealed their address and sent sketches and photocopies to Sheps. He taped my address and sent the finished ones to me, between the boxes. I ... in the same envelope to the publishing house, Then Sheps took them out of there!
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 12: 39
                    +3
                    Then Sheps took them from there!

                    and why should he back? Copyright? wink hmm ... you will be tortured with the shipment!
                    People used to live - they seized the post office and train stations. Now it is enough to cut off the Internet to destroy the workflow! fellow laughing
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 12: 00
              +3
              I first learned about the Odessa NI after reading Katorin in 2004. Before that, I met information about the Kharkov, Stalingrad armored tractors and Izhora wheeled brontosaurs!
              However, the best ersatz alteration of the initial stage of the war I consider the SU-30. Compilation of Komsomolets armored tractor and 57mm cannon.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 12: 13
                +3
                I first learned about the Odessa NI after reading Katorin in 2004.

                Which book is it in? I have "Unique and paradoxical military equipment" (he is associates) - but there, it seems, there is nothing about NOR. request

                By the way, his articles have not been published in Science and Technology for a long time ... sad
                Izhora wheeled brontosaurs!

                This is Kolomiets, "Armor on Wheels". Here is a chapter about them, however, the photos are not very distinguishable scans. There the paper in the book was not very ... As if, there is simply a book, so I know. laughing
                https://arsenal-info.ru/b/book/3284703281/35
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 14: 33
                  +3
                  In the encyclopedia of tanks!
                  You have Nikolai, what edition. I have the first 1999 and the third 2005, but I have not seen in such a cover.
                  Brontosaurs and Kolomeets "Stalin's Armored Cars".
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 15: 32
                    +3
                    third 2005, but in such a cover I have not seen.

                    Bought 2005. Cover in the previous comment. drinks
              2. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 18 November 2020 12: 51
                +2
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                However, the best ersatz alteration of the initial stage of the war I consider the SU-30. Compilation of Komsomolets armored tractor and 57mm cannon.

                Good afternoon, there was also the SU-26 ACS - in this famous photo (in the morning I passed this place):
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 13: 20
                  +3
                  Good afternoon, there was also the SU-26 ACS - in this famous photo (in the morning I passed this place):

                  Sergey, is this the House of Soviets on Moskovsky? Or....
                  Yes, I completely forgot about this Leningrad craft. hi Which, in the conditions of our front, probably came in handy. It remains to pay tribute to the Tsarist General Nikolai Filatov, who was the first to propose to put a 76-mm "short" cannon on armored vehicles as a support weapon! drinks
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 18 November 2020 14: 08
                    +3
                    Good afternoon Nikolai,
                    yes, this is the House of Soviets in Moscow and another equally famous photograph:

                    And this is how this place looked in 1939:
                  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 14: 38
                    +5
                    Leningrad and Leningraders are admirable, in the days of the most severe blockade, they did everything to win the country !!!
                    It sounds pretentious, of course, but every last comma is a harsh truth.
                    I have the honor!
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 15: 36
                      +3
                      It sounds pretentious, of course, but every last comma is a harsh truth.

                      It's all yours. soldier And about the handicrafts .. in the conditions of the relative staticness of the Leningrad Front, there some rarities survived until 43. Two battalions of pre-war armored cars - well, you read about it at Kolomiyets. But from Broneseite Chobitka:
                      T-28 with an L-10 cannon. Winter coloring. March 1943

                      or here:
                      The last mention of the combat use of T-28 tanks of the Red Army falls on July 1944 during the offensive of the Red Army in Karelia. It is this period that is considered to be the last year of the T-28 combat service.
                      http://tanki-v-boju.ru/tank-t-28/
                      I cannot vouch for the truth ... But anything is possible! drinks
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 18 November 2020 15: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        in the conditions of the relative static nature of the Lenfront, there some rarities survived until 43.

                        Like on the Karelian front T-35 almost up to 1944. I got there, but I could be wrong.
                        And the T-28 still shows itself completely, this photo from Parola is especially epic laughing :
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 15: 45
                        +2
                        T-35 almost until 1944. arrived

                        I mean, T-28? A reservation, Sergei? drinks
                        But the British infantry Churchillies really entered Vyborg!

                        I have a dream - to go to Parola and Hämeenlinna - there is an artillery museum. Afraid at first, of course, how the Finns feel about driving. laughing And the visa must be done again. request
                        Photo - class, as usual. good
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 18 November 2020 15: 49
                        +2
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        I mean, T-28? A reservation, Sergei?

                        For some reason, the T-35 is spinning in my head, but I think that in reality, of course, the T-28.
                        I've been to Parola a couple of times, by the way, it's a very good museum.
                        And I also found an interesting reconstruction, on which you can clearly see where the same KV stood:
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 15: 58
                        +2
                        And I also found an interesting reconstruction, on which you can clearly see where the same KV stood

                        by the way, it's great that such people do. Remember. there were several articles about the battle for Chisinau in 1941 - there the Author gave the same photo-reconstruction. good
                        For some reason, my head is spinning that the T-35

                        These mammoths fought twice - in the 8th mechanized corps near Dubno in 41st (where most of them were thrown along the roads), and at least one in a staged film about the counteroffensive near Moscow in December 41. Whether he really fought then - no one knows. soldier
                        Although "wiki" writes that four tanks fought for Kharkov.
                    2. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 18 November 2020 16: 10
                      +1
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      of course - how do the Finns feel about driving.

                      Finns have an extremely positive attitude to driving according to the rules and extremely negative to traffic violations: shortly before the beginning of the "era of coronavirus" my friend, who loves to go fishing there, paid 300-something euros for speeding either 7 km or 11 km And moreover, they still charge the Russians with fines for the minimum wage, the Finns themselves have fines tied to the declaration (that is, to income), and you can easily pay several thousand euros for exceeding several kilometers.
                    3. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 16: 12
                      +2
                      Finns themselves have fines tied to the declaration (that is, to income), and you can easily pay several thousand euros for exceeding a few kilometers.

                      As a result, there is order on the roads and the budget is full ... what
                    4. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 18 November 2020 16: 15
                      +2
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      As a result, there is order on the roads and the budget is full ...

                      And the most interesting thing is that the most malicious violators rushing to the border with all possible violations, crossing it become sharply exemplary drivers in Finland. laughing
                    5. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 16: 22
                      +2
                      moving it become sharply exemplary drivers in Finland

                      ... it would be better if they respected their country (in the sense of ours) ... and their compatriots ...
                    6. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 17: 49
                      -1
                      Quote: Mihaylov
                      sharply exemplary drivers

                      Which only says that our people should not be re-educated with words, but beaten like a sidor's goat!
                    7. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 18: 50
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Mihaylov
                      sharply exemplary drivers

                      Which only says that our people should not be re-educated with words, but beaten like a sidor's goat!

                      Were you also beaten?
                    8. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 18: 58
                      0
                      Morally and not alone. Especially when I was young. Sometimes deservedly sometimes not.
                    9. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 19: 01
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Morally and not alone. Especially when I was young. Sometimes deservedly sometimes not.

                      Your expression "should not be re-educated with words, but be beaten like a Sidorov goat!" no other interpretation, like physical flogging, admits. You write that you were being morally punished and a little higher you write that there is no sense in punishing morally. So tell me clearly, without your crown verbiage, flogged or not?
                    10. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 19: 10
                      0
                      Oh, what do you mean? Once my mother tried it, but it didn’t work out ... I just didn’t succeed.
                    11. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 19: 11
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Mom tried it once, but it didn't work out ...

                      It is a pity, I had to try more often.
                    12. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 19: 13
                      0
                      Vasily, is that why you wrote this? What do you want to achieve by this?
                    13. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 19: 18
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Vasily, is that why you wrote this? What do you want to achieve by this?

                      One simple thing. So that you stop considering yourself the navel of the Earth, to the right and to the left to declare this and to consider those around you stupid, because they did not write books.
                    14. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 19: 25
                      +1
                      And I don't think so. People who respect me, without "poking" who ask me politely, I always answer them the same way and never try to hurt them. Is not it so? To the impudent ignoramuses and outright boors, I, yes, point to their place for their own benefit. And with such "tricks" you will never achieve your goal. It's even funny! By the way, re-read the site rules. Everything that you write belongs to the category of flooding. And he is punished on the site.
                    15. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 19: 31
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Everything that you write belongs to the flood category. And he is punished on the site.

                      Accepted. Then do not be offended if, in response to your posts, in which you openly call members of the forum stupid and stupid, complaints will also be sent against you.
                      As the saying goes, isn't it easier, godfather, to turn to yourself?
                      PS
                      and I never try to hurt them.

                      It's just that you are so used to doing it that you no longer notice it.
                      By the way, there is no evidence that
                      And in the Great Patriotic Division, the divisions that left without orders were bombed from planes,
                      You never did. What should I call you then? A storyteller or a fakecomet?
                      shot their fighters through one as cowards and traitors!

                      At the same time, decimation in Ancient Rome for some reason does not surprise or amaze anyone.
                    16. kalibr
                      19 November 2020 21: 55
                      0
                      Quote: Alf
                      By the way, there is no evidence that
                      And in the Great Patriotic Division, the divisions that left without orders were bombed from planes,
                      You never did. What should I call you then? A storyteller or a fakecomet?

                      You were too lazy to open the book, the cover of which I gave you, right? And now I am too lazy to do something to prove something to you. Enough with you that the topic interested me. I didn't get it out of my head, I just don't remember the document. But there is an MO archive. I will contact him and ask for help. If not, we will close this topic once and for all. If it was, we will sign it with a link to the documents. This is the only way for me, so you have to play by my rules, whether you want to or not. And the complaints ... but write, God is with you, do you think this will add some reasoning? It makes no sense even to dream about it. And knowledge ... Has anyone here referred to the journal Rodina, Voprosy istorii, the USA and Canada? NO! That's just it!
                    17. Alf
                      Alf 19 November 2020 22: 03
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And now I'm too lazy to do something to prove something to you.

                      Clearly, there is no evidence, as always.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      I will contact him and ask for help. If not, we will close this topic once and for all. If it was, we will sign it with a link to the documents.

                      Fine, I'm waiting.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      This is the only way for me, so you have to play by my rules, whether you want to or not.

                      What is "your rules"? Is bringing evidence your rule? Actually, all educated people do this. But, if you consider such a situation "your rules", then it only means that in the expression "the navel of the Earth" I was absolutely right.
                      P.S. Just think how dare I demand proof from you, gentlemen take your word for it ...
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Here at least someone referred to the magazine Rodina, Voprosy istorii, the USA and Canada? NO! That's just it!

                      And what does this have to do with it? Another self-exaltation?
                    18. kalibr
                      20 November 2020 06: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Alf
                      gentlemen take their word ...

                      That's it!
                      Quote: Alf
                      And what does this have to do with it? Another self-exaltation?

                      Just an indicator of the awareness of many commentators. A blind person cannot be a critic of painting, a deaf person cannot be a critic of music. Everyone here can do everything! Explained easily?
                2. kalibr
                  19 November 2020 21: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Alf
                  As the saying goes, isn't it easier, godfather, to turn to yourself?

                  Have I ever "poked" you? And they poke me constantly. Isn't that so?
                3. Alf
                  Alf 20 November 2020 19: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Quote: Alf
                  As the saying goes, isn't it easier, godfather, to turn to yourself?

                  Have I ever "poked" you? And they poke me constantly. Isn't that so?

                  Do you know the term "Saying"? Then, isn't it easier for you, godfather, to turn to yourself? That's better ? When you are poked, you are outraged when YOU classify members of the forum as stupid, this is normal. The classic behavior of an insecure individual with Narcissus syndrome.
                4. kalibr
                  20 November 2020 19: 59
                  0
                  These are different things, don't you think? Or you don't understand it. Are you a psychologist or do you work on CNC machines? Maybe this is for you to turn to yourself? You suffer from an elementary lack of logic. Don't you like what I remind you about books? But this is an indicator of knowledge and its quality. Do many have such confirmation? No. What you need from a site: well-written, informative materials. And that's it! You get them from me. You should be glad that a good specialist writes to you. Or are you satisfied with unproven fabrications about Hyperborea? So you don't need to teach me, right? If you were academician Aganbegyan, I would listen. Anonymous from CNC, I don’t want to listen! And the last time I warn you - everything you squeak is a flood. You yourself admitted it. At VO they are punished for him.
                5. Alf
                  Alf 20 November 2020 20: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  You get them from me. You should be glad that a good specialist writes to you.

                  Again narcissism is rushing ...
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Maybe this is for you to turn to yourself?

                  What exactly ? Did you catch me lying?
                  Quote: kalibr
                  But this is an indicator of knowledge and its quality.

                  Dontsova and Marinina also print in kilograms ..
                  You just can't understand one simple thing. Here you are not respected not for articles that are interesting and informative, but for the fact that you consider yourself the smartest, and everyone around you is stupid, because many of your articles begin quite informatively, but quickly move on to self-praise of yourself.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Anonymous from CNC, I don’t want to listen!

                  Yes, for God's sake, Vasily Valerievich Semyonov. Feel better?
                  Quote: kalibr
                  And the last time I warn you - all that you squeak is a flood. At VO they are punished for him.

                  For insulting members of the forum are also banned, do not forget about it.
                  Complainers are those who cannot prove their intellectual superiority in the usual way. Complain about your health!
                6. kalibr
                  20 November 2020 20: 39
                  0
                  Quote: Alf
                  Complained by those who cannot prove their intellectual superiority in the usual way

                  And I don't need to prove anything. Neither the usual way nor the usual. Open the Internet, everything is there ... And I don't need the respect of the ignorant from the word at all. Clear?
                7. kalibr
                  20 November 2020 20: 41
                  0
                  Quote: Alf
                  Dontsova and Marinina also print in kilograms ..

                  Why don't you understand that their books and mine are incomparable? It's like CNC and DIP! Is that clearer?
                8. kalibr
                  20 November 2020 20: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Alf
                  interesting and informative,

                  If they are, what kind of narcissism? Where is the logic? And understand, Vasily Valerievich, you will not convince me of anything, no matter how hard you try. Well ... you are not authoritative for me, with all due respect to you as a person. Alas! And if so, then ... thanks for the time spent on me and the site, for the clicks - they increase the investment attractiveness of the site, and let's stop this useless discussion. I'm tired of pouring from empty to empty. I'll write to the MO archive. I always keep what I promised. That's enough for you for now. There will be news from there - I'll let you know. In the meantime, go to the weapons section. There I had some cool material about US carbines of the mid-19th century.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 18 November 2020 16: 18
    +1
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    But the British infantry Churchillies really entered Vyborg!

    By the way, you can see "Churchill" in Kubinka, it is there:
  • Machito
    Machito 18 November 2020 11: 22
    +2
    Plywood is a joke.
    NI read about tanks at Krylov's.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 11: 52
      +3
      Quote: Bearded
      Plywood is a joke.
      NI read about tanks at Krylov's.

      Then I'm sorry! hi
  • svp67
    svp67 17 November 2020 18: 28
    +4
    Thanks. Well, okay Odessa, which is under siege, but such armored vehicles were also made in Kharkov ...
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 17 November 2020 19: 10
      +3
      In xnumx? laughing lol
      ______________

      hi
    2. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 17 November 2020 20: 24
      -6
      Either they laundered the money, or there was a nutcase from the stoned ones.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 November 2020 20: 54
        +4
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        Either they laundered the money, or there was a nutcase from the stoned ones.

        This is what?
    3. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 17 November 2020 21: 51
      +1
      And the project of the Stalingrad plant also existed, if I am not mistaken.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 05: 18
        +4
        HOW the leader, I think Vyacheslav Olegovich will tell us about this in his future works. Let's not run into the cross train. With his comments, Viktor Nikolaevich has already managed to take away the "crust of bread" from the Author! hi
        1. kalibr
          18 November 2020 11: 09
          +1
          Vladislav! It will only be about NO, even about the "tank" from Kharkov will not. I do not like to interfere with one topic 2-3. Then the name would be: "Tanks-tractors of the Second World War." It makes sense, isn't it?
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 November 2020 11: 54
            +1
            Well then, we'll throw something in!
            1. kalibr
              18 November 2020 11: 54
              +1
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              then we'll throw something!

              Throw, I'm only "for"!
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 17 November 2020 18: 38
    +9
    For the creation of 31 NI tanks, Captain Uriy Grigorievich Kogan was awarded the BKZ order.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 17 November 2020 19: 05
    +9
    Odessa "NI" today. Photo of 2017
    For some reason, in all materials about Odessa tanks, only a photo of the monument in Seredinsky square is placed.
    Meanwhile, there is another such tank at the Odessa Heroic Defense Memorial of the 411th Coastal Battery.
  • Constanty
    Constanty 17 November 2020 19: 22
    +6
    \
    A lot has been written about "NI" tanks both in our country and abroad, and their whole history has overgrown with various legends. Let's start with the fact that in no wartime document the designation "NI tank" is found, and these vehicles are referred to as "tank-tractor" or "armored tractor". Work on the construction of armored tractors in Odessa began in mid-August 1941 with the active participation of the naval base. The first two cars, built on the basis of STZ-5 transport tractors, were ready on August 20. Their armor was carried out by the plant named after. October revolution. To speed up the construction for these armored tractors, turrets from broken T-26 tanks of the 1931 release were used. The armament of the vehicles consisted of two machine guns. Former secretary of the Leninist district party committee N.G. Lutsenko, who oversaw this work, recalled the first armored vehicle built: "On August 20, the first finished tank was pulled from the workshop into the courtyard by a cable. There were already workers, engineers, factory director, military men, sailors. One of the workers approached the combat vehicle and wrote in chalk: "DEATH TO FASCISM." According to NG Lutsenko's memoirs, "20 tanks were manufactured from August 15 to October 55, having converted them from ST3-5 tractors." Other sources cite a different number of armored tractors built in Odessa - 69. According to the author, the figures these are overestimated, since the Odessa Defense Region (OOD) did not have sufficient material resources and could not afford to use almost 70 tractors necessary for artillery for booking.

    : http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/tractor/bronetr3.php

    Despite all its shortcomings, "NI" was not without success used in private counterattacks, which was facilitated by the observance of the principle of non-intrusion and a small depth of action. Already in the first battle on September 1 near the town of Dalnik, three "NIs", together with one BT, helped the 25th Chapayev Infantry Division to throw back the Romanian units, frightened by the appearance of "unknown tanks". According to some reports, a psychological effect was also used in this attack: powerful sirens and headlights were installed and used on the tractor tanks.
    They even brought 4 captured cannons in tow. In the second half of September, the 210th Army Tank Battalion was formed, which had 35 vehicles (10 BT-7s, several BT-5s and NI tractor-tanks), which had to participate in many battles.
    During the evacuation of the Primorsky Army, the "NI" company stood on the western outskirts of Odessa with the task of covering rearguards. But the enemy, who did not detect the withdrawal of our troops, did not undertake pursuit attempts. The NI crews were the last to leave, blowing up their vehicles.

    http://www.battlefield.ru/ni1-na-ispug.html

    And probably the most interesting

    https://topor.od.ua/tank-ni-mif-i-fakt-ob-odesskom-shuttspantsere/
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 17 November 2020 19: 27
    +2
    = I started looking for the reason. And it turned out to be the same "scoop" that had eaten into the flesh and blood of our workers. The fact is that injection molds wear out gradually. And then it is necessary to make new ones according to the master model. But this master model is locked in the production manager's safe. I have to go to the second floor and ask. =
    I cannot but react to this nonsense.
    1. Question to the author - why is the master on the site? What is he obliged to follow? And if this is not a foundry, but a foundry, then there is not one foreman (maybe 2 and 3) plus a technologist, plus a shop manager. What are they for? But for some reason your worker is a scoop.
    2. I am not an expert in foundry, but it seems to me that there is no such thing - molds that wear out.
    The model shop makes a wooden model, this model in the foundry is placed in a wooden box without a bottom of the corresponding size. The gaps between the model and the box are filled with a special compound. (I'm afraid to make a mistake, but it seems to be called SHAMOT) And it is compacted by pneumatic ramming or manually. Then the model is taken out, the box is removed. And this chamotte is the MOLD for casting. OWN FORM (!) Is made for each casting. But this is for metal. And for plastic it is even easier, and there the form does not wear out.
    Well, about the "master model" locked in the safe lol If it did exist, it would be kept in the pantry, like the rest of the "master models", tools, gadgets, etc.
    So, "scoops" are not workers, "scoops" are just bosses of all ranks, and this is INTELLIGENCE, albeit a technical one.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 17 November 2020 20: 10
      +9
      I am not an expert in foundry
      Key phrase of the comment. It was necessary to stop at this and try to understand the issue. You, more or less approximately describing the process of casting metals and alloys into the "earth", i.e. into special one-time sandy-clay molds from the molding mixture, which may include chamotte, then they already carried nonsense about "for plastic it is even easier and there the form does not wear out."
      "Rubber kit" is not that at all. This is a casting from (for example) polyester resin into a pentelast mold.
      The shape and part looks something like this and the shape usually serves 15-20 castings.
      1. kalibr
        17 November 2020 20: 14
        +9
        Quote: Undecim
        The shape and part looks something like this and the shape usually serves 15-20 castings.
        We used vixint and epoxy (I don't remember the brand) and it was enough for a maximum of 30 casts.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 17 November 2020 20: 16
        -3
        Quote: Undecim
        try to understand the issue. You, more or less approximately describing the process of casting metals and alloys into the "earth", i.e. in special

        And I should have described all the technology in detail here? In gives!
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 17 November 2020 20: 50
          +8
          The question is not in the details, but in "wooden boxes without a bottom". Such flasks have not been used for a long time, perhaps in some kind of handicraft foundry.
      3. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 17 November 2020 20: 19
        -1
        Quote: Undecim

        "Rubber kit" is not that at all. This is a casting from (for example) polyester resin into a pentelast mold.

        Maybe this is an outdated technology that I didn't know about?
        I am a little (!) Familiar with the technology on "thermoplastic"
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 17 November 2020 20: 54
          +5
          Maybe this is an outdated technology that I didn't know about?
          No, this is modern technology.
          I am a little (!) Familiar with the technology on "thermoplastic"
          Do you mean injection molding?
    2. kalibr
      17 November 2020 20: 19
      +5
      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
      OWN FORM (!) Is made for each casting. But this is for metal. And for plastic it is even easier, and there the form does not wear out.
      Well, about the "master model" locked in the safe If it existed, then it would be kept in the pantry, like the rest of the "master models", tools, fixtures, etc.

      Your trouble is that you undertake to comment completely without knowing the "rubber whale" technology. Below you Undecim wrote everything correctly. I will just add that keeping the master model for vixinth forms in the pantry is ... the height of idiocy. It stands like a cast iron bridge! And even just dropping it on the floor is a disaster! Now the Internet has everything. I would advise you to look at the first 4 Standmaster magazines. There was a lot about Penza - the capital of Russian rubber whales.
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 17 November 2020 20: 23
        -3
        Quote: kalibr
        I will just add that keeping the master model for vixinth forms in the pantry is ... the height of idiocy. It stands like a cast iron bridge! And even just drop it on

        Yes Yes Yes. And therefore it must be stored in a SAFE on the second floor. laughing
        1. kalibr
          18 November 2020 11: 06
          0
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          And therefore it must be stored in a SAFE on the second floor.

          Do you have your wife's gold jewelry all over your house?
    3. Alf
      Alf 17 November 2020 20: 20
      +6
      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
      I am not an expert in foundry, but it seems to me that there is no such thing - injection molds that wear out.

      There is such a thing as mold wear. It all depends on the material of the mold.
      The reliability of the operation of the mold is greatly influenced by the correct installation of the mold on the press and the accuracy of assembly of its moving parts. A properly installed and secured mold should close without jolts or impacts and be released without jamming. The guide columns, ejectors and other rubbing parts of the mold must be lubricated with oil. In the absence of lubrication, scuffs appear on the rubbing surfaces, it becomes difficult to release the mold and push out the products.

      If the mold does not come apart poorly or the product does not eject, you cannot use crowbars, sledgehammers, etc. The cause of such problems is usually a skewed installation of the molds or loosening of the fastening.

      Seizure of moving parts and seizure marks on them also occur when the press material flows into the gaps between the mating moving parts of the mold. After each pressing, it is necessary to blow the mold with compressed air and remove adhered and stuck flakes from punches, dies, guide sleeves and ejectors.

      Removable molds tend to seize guides and workpieces more frequently than stationary molds. When working on a removable mold, the punch is set relative to the die before each pressing. This often leads to misalignment of both mold halves and is the main reason for the reduced tool life of removable molds compared to stationary ones.

      The nature of the wear of the working parts of the mold depends on its design.

      In direct compression molds, the loading chamber of the matrix and the punch wear out earlier than other elements from mutual friction when the mold is closed under pressure. This is due to the fact that the press material, falling into the gap between the vertical walls of the punch and the die, has an abrasive effect on the surface of these parts, gradually leading to the appearance of scratches and marks. Subsequently, mutual friction of surfaces (even with small risks) leads to the formation of deep scratches and scoring. The mold starts to jam when opening, and its breakage is possible.

      Column guides and bushings for direct compression molds are the most stressed parts. During pressing, due to the uneven distribution of the weight of the press material in the loading chamber, lateral forces act on the punch, tending to displace it relative to the die. Column guides and bushings absorb lateral forces and hold the punch in the correct position, which causes their increased one-sided wear and often scuffs on the surface. Untimely repair or replacement of columns leads to breakage and failure of the mold.

      Injection molding mold wear usually begins with the gating system, as well as marks located opposite the inlet of the press material into the casting cavity. Passing at high speed through the channels of the gating system, the press material gradually wears out (“erodes”) its surface, which leads to an increase in the inlet and “sticking” of the gates when the mold is opened or the product is removed. "Sticking" is caused by the destruction of the chromium layer. When the inlet of the gating system has to be positioned against the shaping signs, the latter take the brunt of the press material jet, quickly wear out, deform and even break. Signs that form holes with a small cross-section wear out especially quickly.

      Increased wear of the design marks quickly leads to product defects in size.

      The wear rate of the working surface of the molding parts of the mold depends primarily on the type of plastic filler. The greatest wear is caused by

      mineral filler, such as quartz flour, mica, used to prepare plastics with increased dielectric properties. Powders of grades K-114-35, K-211-3 also cause increased wear.
      1. aglet
        aglet 18 November 2020 08: 35
        +2
        Quote: Alf
        If the mold does not come apart poorly or the product is not pushed out, you cannot use crowbars, to

        it seems that it was still about the NI tank, and not about the technology of plastic molding. no need to quote manufacturing instructions
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 November 2020 19: 27
          -1
          Quote: aglet
          Quote: Alf
          If the mold does not come apart poorly or the product is not pushed out, you cannot use crowbars, to

          it seems that it was still about the NI tank, and not about the technology of plastic molding. no need to quote manufacturing instructions

          And what about the tank model? Did you saw each one by hand? For the sake of interest, ask how long the form lives on AO Zvezda and how much on Amodel. The difference is that long-term molds are made of steel, and small-scale ones are made of copper, which is, as it were, softer. Therefore, those who collect small series at any cost, even twice as expensive, tend to take the models of the first issues, then the quality of castings sharply decreases from batch to batch.
          1. kalibr
            19 November 2020 21: 49
            0
            So on the ZVEZDA the molds are steel, and the castings are POLYSTYRENE. And we had vixint and epoxy. Therefore, the master models were made of metal and polystyrene, filled with epoxy inside.
            1. Alf
              Alf 19 November 2020 22: 04
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              And we had vixint and epoxy.

              And what, the forms do not wear out?
              1. kalibr
                20 November 2020 06: 02
                0
                Enough for 20-30 castings and that's it.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 20 November 2020 19: 11
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Enough for 20-30 castings and that's it.

                  And where did the one who had to monitor the work and control the quality of the castings go? Did you sleep on the second floor? For some reason, while working at the CNC, I check every 10 detail, and the most responsible 100 percent. And the one who was in charge of your castings was apparently absolutely indifferent to the quality of the castings. the number goes, well, okay. And when the marriage started, why were not measures taken, not only the workers, but also the leadership were not upset? It resembles the leadership style of modern "effective owners" - the workers are to blame for everything, and not those who created such conditions for work.
                  1. kalibr
                    20 November 2020 19: 51
                    0
                    I don't remember the details. More than 25 years ago it was ...
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 20 November 2020 20: 01
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      I don't remember the details. More than 25 years ago it was ...

                      The stump is clear, you can't blame yourself ...
                      1. kalibr
                        20 November 2020 20: 05
                        0
                        Sure! The one who is the boss is not ... The one who is not the boss is ... always! Or did you not know that?
                      2. kalibr
                        20 November 2020 20: 12
                        0
                        And stop being angry! Better now, look at this Moscow magazine, it tells in detail about the Penza "rubber kit". And on the cover is our tank and a figurine of a tanker ..
                        .
                        And this is my article in Standmaster - how to make water from epoxy and drown a tank in it!

                      3. Alf
                        Alf 20 November 2020 20: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Sure! The one who is the boss is not ... The one who is not the boss is ... always! Or did you not know that?

                        Where did the consultant look? Or "to create my business, further not my problems." The designer usually leads his brainchild to the end. Each production has a department that monitors all problems with the production of the product and eliminates deficiencies. I had an old acquaintance in Samara, his "one and a half man" cooperative produced 72 T-34 and SU-100 models. So until the end of production, he himself went to the workshop and watched what happened. The models to the very end of the office were of the same quality as in the beginning. It's just that he indicated his personal phone number on the instructions. Attitude obliges ...
                      4. kalibr
                        20 November 2020 20: 23
                        0
                        Top cover of the magazine. It contained a long article about the production of "rubber whales" in Penza. The models released by us are discussed on the forums of modelers until then. At the most difficult moment, NIIFI received ... a lot. Then he lost interest. What else interests you? And your friend gave him the phone, because his models did not go further than Russia. And I could not indicate the phone. So that they don't call me from the States and Hong Kong at night.
                      5. Alf
                        Alf 20 November 2020 20: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        And your friend gave him the phone, because his models did not go further than Russia.

                        I sent it to the Czech Republic and Poland, they were happy there.
                        He just had a slightly different attitude to his work.
                      6. kalibr
                        20 November 2020 20: 35
                        0
                        Quote: Alf
                        He just had a slightly different attitude to his work.

                        A superficial conclusion based on a superficial acquaintance with the facts + personal ill will and a desire to "hurt" at any cost. Cheaply, this is all clear to you. CHEAP!
  • kalibr
    17 November 2020 20: 22
    +4
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    A question to the author - why is the master on the site? What is he obliged to follow? And if this is not a foundry, but a foundry, then there is more than one foreman (maybe 2 and 3) plus a technologist, plus a shop manager. What are they for?

    How did you decide that it was a shop? It was a piece production, where there was neither a foreman nor a shop manager. There was a woman in charge of production and I am his consultant. And that's it!
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 17 November 2020 20: 28
      -1
      Quote: kalibr

      How did you decide that it was a shop? It was a piece production, where there was neither a foreman nor a shop manager. There was a woman in charge of production and I am his consultant. And that's it!

      Well, you and this woman are to blame. And what have the workers?
      Who is responsible for compliance with the technological process?
      By the way, where did the quality control department look? But he, as I understood, was not there.
      Well, the organizer, having decided to make money, had to follow this.
      1. kalibr
        17 November 2020 20: 49
        +3
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Well, the organizer, having decided to make money, had to follow this.

        So we watched ... But it is difficult to determine by eye on the model in M1: 35 the discrepancy of 1,5 mm, and checking each with a micrometer ... the cost has greatly increased. It's just that everything SHOULD BE DONE AS THE TOLD. No gag and that's it. And there is no need to justify our "Stakhanovites". They said so, then so. EVERYTHING!
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 17 November 2020 21: 24
          -2
          Quote: kalibr
          So we followed ...

          As watched and received. wassat
      2. kalibr
        17 November 2020 20: 52
        +2
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        And what have the workers?

        I understand that if the bulls do not carry, then the whip will guide them on the right path. But then there were PEOPLE, not cattle. To whom they explained everything, everyone said and paid very well. So it turns out you should have counted them as foolish brutes? Well, now I count all such people just for her. From experience ... Then all the same I thought - PEOPLE!
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 17 November 2020 21: 28
          -3
          Quote: kalibr
          Well, now I think all such people are for her. From experience ... Then all the same I thought - PEOPLE!

          Yes, you are out of luck with the team. lol As our liberals with the people.
          But like a shepherd, so is the flock.
          And you were the shepherd, since you gave advice to "one woman."
          1. Alesi13
            Alesi13 17 November 2020 21: 53
            +3
            There are very stubborn rams
          2. kalibr
            18 November 2020 07: 49
            +3
            Then I did not know the Pareto law - this is my main problem. Now I know that 80% of people are draft animals (with positive deviations back and forth), and 20% are those who drive them (with negative deviations, respectively).
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 18 November 2020 08: 06
              -2
              Quote: kalibr
              Then I did not know the Pareto law - this is my main problem. Now I know that 80% of people are draft animals (with positive deviations back and forth), and 20% are those who drive them (with negative deviations, respectively).

              You forgot to mention the gasket between those and those - the intelligentsia wink
              1. kalibr
                18 November 2020 10: 56
                +2
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                intellectuals

                And there is also hereditary, which has nothing to do with gaskets. And there is, yes - from rags to riches.
  • kalibr
    17 November 2020 20: 24
    +5
    Quote: Undecim
    Meanwhile, there is another such tank at the Odessa Heroic Defense Memorial of the 411th Coastal Battery.

    Well, Viktor Nikolaevich, what should I give in the second article? Why in such a hurry? After all, it is written - there will be a continuation
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 17 November 2020 20: 45
      +5
      and what should I give in the second article?
      That's so bad luck. But maybe you can give a photo of the workshop where these tanks were made?
  • BAI
    BAI 17 November 2020 21: 08
    +3
    Several tanks went to the Romanians. And after the war they were made not only in Penza.




    1. kalibr
      18 November 2020 07: 53
      +3
      Quote: BAI
      And after the war they were made not only in Penza.

      It would be very interesting if you wrote where else ... I have never seen such information anywhere.
      1. BAI
        BAI 18 November 2020 09: 35
        +1
        Dnepropetrovsk. Ukraine. 2013. Paintball club with the prophetic name "Aggressor".
        1. kalibr
          18 November 2020 10: 53
          +2
          I didn't get it, sorry, what were they doing - 1:35 scale models or something for playing paintball? I understood that the latter, but it does not suit me. I only have models.
          1. BAI
            BAI 18 November 2020 15: 07
            0
            They made an absolutely exact copy 1 to 1. On the go. But most likely it is impossible to shoot from it.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 17 November 2020 22: 33
    +6
    Found a photo, apparently of that time, NI, thrown by the crew.

    And some looked like quite industrial designs. I do not presume that the lower photos are contemporaries of the tank from the upper photo. Most likely post-war remakes.

    1. Vovk
      Vovk 17 November 2020 23: 02
      +5
      Found a photo, apparently of that time, NI, thrown by the crew.

      The last two are just layouts. But the first is the KhTZ-16.


      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 10: 19
        +5
        But the first is the KhTZ-16.

        yes, I will support, this is KhTZ.
        Interestingly, the first photo is mentioned. that they were used during the battles for Poltava. Popel is a participant in the defense, in his book he mentions the participation of the militia (right in the black militia uniform), but does not mention these ersatz tanks - EMNIP ... drinks
    2. kalibr
      18 November 2020 07: 50
      +4
      [quote = Sea Cat]
      About these remakes will be
    3. hohol95
      hohol95 18 November 2020 23: 14
      +2
      I read that a modern "hand-made article" was created in order to please Nikita Sergeevich ...
  • Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 18 November 2020 00: 04
    +1
    The history of armored vehicles began in 1915
    In the USSR and other countries it was considered as a mobilization option.
    They are still building "killozers" all over the world. Even ChTZ
    Odessa managed not only to exist, but also to fight successfully, and in quantity.
    The exhibit on Moldavanka is simply brighter and more popular than on the 411 battery. In the center.
  • wow
    wow 18 November 2020 00: 12
    +3
    And now from the glorious plant. The January Uprising was left in ruins in the truest sense of the word.
  • Yurahip
    Yurahip 18 November 2020 08: 44
    +1
    NIIFI, tank NI? Some strange associations ... At least in the title.
    1. kalibr
      18 November 2020 10: 54
      +3
      Quote: Jurachip
      NIIFI, tank NI? Some strange associations ... At least in the title.

      Fate! And money doesn't smell!
      1. Yurahip
        Yurahip 18 November 2020 12: 29
        0
        Hmm, fate ...
        You would have invented some other Neptune ...
        1. kalibr
          19 November 2020 08: 02
          0
          Quote: Jurachip
          Hmm, fate ...
          You would have invented some other Neptune ...

          Yuri! You will laugh. Just in Penza there was a company called Neptune, which published the newspaper Rusalka, where I again worked as a consultant, and which released the board game "Battle of Kursk" and ... some kind of tank ...
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 18 November 2020 12: 26
    +1
    "Tank NI" in Kubinka:
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 18 November 2020 23: 35
    +1
    We used vixint and epoxy (I don't remember the brand) and it was enough for a maximum of 30 casts. [Quote]
    That is, you yourself confirm that the quality of the molds and their timely change were critically important for the success of the concession, and you knew about this from the beginning. Then why the hell was this master form on the second floor (well, at least not outside the city for greater safety) and not in the workshop within walking distance? 30 castings during the operation of ONE machine is a DAY of work, you are talking about workers and not workers, and there were more than one machine tool boxes for sale, then it is doubly strange why the female technologist from the plant department did not provide for finding a critical gesheft for CURRENCY at the time of the product-normal conditions for the production thereof? Whom did the complaints come to? -They first came to you, because there were clients from you or through you. And what the concessionaires did at the sight of the advertisements, it seems that they did nothing at all.
    And who is to blame for the product fiasco then? -Well, of course, not your trinity or how many dedicated there were, namely the drunken soviet worker Vasya, well, who else is that. After all, no one thought that to carry around 10-xs how many kg every day. from far away it is so motivating to do a lot and it is good, although your technologist should have known this, especially when he was not the most sick person in terms of a high-tech enterprise, or not working, but was there something in the research institute for a word?, and it is unbreakable - any technologist knows that the step-by-step availability of critical components in an in-line production (boxes were loaded) is critically important for the entire process, because the worker is not a horse or a robot and they first think about him and then about production. (it's like one person at a construction site manually knead and fill the cube and more, but when everything is a meter away from it, and when the water is here, the sand is a hundred meters away, the trough is on the second floor and pouring in the basement, he will knead one bucket a day and thanks to this analogy with the organization your successful project don't you find a production?)
    So Vasya turned out to be smarter than all of you, seeing this mess in the organization, he just made a casting from the last stamp, because he was tired of carrying and running around with gravity. And dear author, bind with rhetoric, you write well interestingly, but for some of your habits and in professorial circles, you can naturally get a police officer, and you will be right. It is not worth people with their simple and inconspicuous work of forging and your well-being, too, to lower in their assessments and keep for cattle and a priori. You show yourself from a bad morally personal side - people DO NOT like ANYTHING, and endure for the time being.
    1. kalibr
      19 November 2020 08: 10
      0
      Eugene! I write the truth, but they do not take offense at the truth, even if it is bitter. And now it’s like this: everyone should mind their own business, right? The seller - to sell, the technologist - to manufacture, the workers - to do what they tell. The rule is, I am the boss ... and who are you? You know, huh? It was and will be so. And about heavy weights ... DO NOT WRITE IF YOU DON'T KNOW! How heavy can a 1:35 scale plastic master model (not lead!) Have? Look at the dimensions of NI on the Web and divide by 35 ... You could have gone, no one would have fallen apart. Explained easily?
    2. kalibr
      19 November 2020 08: 13
      0
      Quote: evgen1221
      Then it is doubly strange why the female technologist from the chief of the plant did not ensure that the product, which was critical for the gesheft for CURRENCY at that time, was found - normal conditions for the production of it?

      But this - yes! But ... they gave it to me from above as a specialist, and I'm used to trusting them. Probably the management knew her competence better than me. My job was to order molds, find partners in the West, and provide sales. With that, everything was fine.
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 19 November 2020 08: 42
        +1
        Meanwhile, the red-handed habits in the texts and comments, when you share your stories from life, you are not at all painted and repulsed by a part of the audience. How many of you I read here, it is always interesting to read to the end, because it’s interesting to devil write. But for snobbery and dismissive places in articles on In relation to the specks of dust of society, I'm sorry, of course, but the least desire is sometimes to spit in the face. You shouldn't make such insertions, I have already explained about Vasya, who is tired of walking far away. People of a speck of dust also think and experience no less, the scales are only different. All the best and good luck to you in gash is a difficult time, and be more tolerant, as they say, be easier and people will reach out, and it works in all walks of life.
        1. kalibr
          19 November 2020 09: 19
          -1
          Quote: evgen1221
          people will reach out

          Eugene! You give the impression of an intelligent person, but you still don't understand everything. Do I need it? To stretch? 80% of people are mediocre from birth and by virtue of upbringing, and only 20% are sufficiently socialized and smart. I don't need 80 to stretch ... and 20 is enough for me. You, apparently, due to youth, pay a lot of attention to words. Do not. "Call the pot, just don't put it in the stove" they used to say in Russia. And to spit in the face in front of witnesses for this trial and prison, and then spat on his knees will beg to take any money, so long as they do not hang a criminal record on him. So that...
          1. evgen1221
            evgen1221 19 November 2020 09: 39
            +1
            Again snobbery, Lord. You are no longer able to perceive generalizations chtoli. The perception of 80% of opponents of the information that you, me, anyone wants to convey to them largely depends on how this information is communicated (we speak a language understandable for this audience) As a lecturer and teacher with experience you should know from experience. Nuclear physics can be explained in simple words to the Chukchi, and he will understand and the technique of kneading with a shovel in abstruse scientific terms and the academician FIG will understand-generalization). will obey if popularly and correctly explained. and it works! On courts and other threats - (komon man !, the Internet in this regard is a damn safe place (anyone can send and do anything, and you, as an intelligent person, too, you understand) And I had no desire to comment on you personally offend - I just wanted to convey the idea that during live communication such habits often end with this, or the listener will please by spitting and hammering at everything that such a teacher tells him. And you also know this everyday axiom.
            1. kalibr
              19 November 2020 10: 10
              0
              Quote: evgen1221
              the internet is a damn safe place in this regard

              And here you are also completely wrong. It is almost more dangerous than a newspaper ... Believe me.
            2. kalibr
              19 November 2020 10: 12
              0
              Quote: evgen1221
              largely depends on how this information is communicated

              Do I have a heavy tongue? You yourself wrote that no, then everything is fine.
            3. kalibr
              19 November 2020 10: 14
              -1
              Quote: evgen1221
              But the general rule of a cultured and educated person is that you should never put yourself above your interlocutor in communication - he will put you above himself and obey if it is popularly and correctly explained, and it works!

              And where are you, what have you seen an excess of cultured and educated people in VO? Yes, here the first rule of communication is to thoroughly confront the opponent. and the shoemakers also judge the bakers! I'm wrong? And pay attention, when I meet just such, I never put myself above them. And the frank ignoramuses and boors God himself ordered to occasionally remind that their place ... well, it is clear where.
              1. evgen1221
                evgen1221 19 November 2020 10: 59
                +1
                Well, we didn’t say agree for everyone on the site, I’m only gently trying to point out some of your repulsive features. In terms of transferring information from person to person, nothing has changed much, we are still communicating with words and meanings. if one kid in every possible way periodically puts himself above the others in the group, all other things being equal (on the site we are equal as in a sandbox in general), then sooner or later it usually ends in ignorance or target-indicating podzhopnik at minimum salaries, -byak asshole, well, everyone remembers this. On instincts, it probably works with people that some things are organically indigestible at any age and position in society and are averaged in every possible way, in separately neglected cases this even grows into total indecency, but in the mass it is stopped by a slight correction.
                1. evgen1221
                  evgen1221 19 November 2020 11: 11
                  +1
                  And for the thesis about 20% of people for communication. As I started working with people, I went through one rule that works ironically. No matter how many people I worked with in a team, but if I started (stood out) and ostentatiously put myself above others in assessing their actions in a team, it always ended with either ignoring communication Yes, No, I don’t know (monosyllabic) or the collapse of the team and all kinds of loss of interest and the need to communicate with me (no matter how right I am and no matter how brilliant ideas I come up with), just a total ignore. Hence the rule worked out-behave accordingly. Sorry again for the criticism and apologize if you have offended in something. Sincerely.
                  1. kalibr
                    19 November 2020 11: 32
                    0
                    Quote: evgen1221
                    Sorry again for the criticism and apologize if you have offended in something.

                    No, you wrote everything correctly based on your personal experience. The only question is again ... personal experience. Each has his own. And I know about my shortcomings, but changing at 66 is difficult, and is it worth it? What will it give? You are obviously younger, and the cards are in your hands! My granddaughter sometimes makes similar remarks to me. And ... for her the future, as well as for you! There is no longer for me ...
  • Selevc
    Selevc 21 November 2020 22: 44
    0
    In addition to Odessa research institutes, something similar was done in Kharkov in the summer of 41 - one of these tanks was knocked out on Poltavskiy Shlyakh Street and stood there for a long time with killed tankers - the Fritzes probably scared the city residents for resistance !!!
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 21 November 2020 23: 00
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      And Kharkiv historians say that in the summer of 41, at least one T-28 was hit in the battles for Kharkiv, and it was seen on Moskovsky Prospekt near the Turboatom plant.
    2. Vovk
      Vovk 22 November 2020 18: 50
      0
      Quote: Selevc
      In addition to Odessa research institutes, something similar was done in Kharkov in the summer of 41 - one of these tanks was knocked out on Poltavskiy Shlyakh Street and stood there for a long time with killed tankers - the Fritzes probably scared the city residents for resistance !!!

      There is a photo of this fact.

      I will not post views with the dead tankers inside the KhTZ-16 ... an eerie sight, who will find it on the internet himself.
      1. Vovk
        Vovk 22 November 2020 19: 01
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        Photos XTZ-16




        1. Vovk
          Vovk 22 November 2020 19: 02
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          More pictures from KhTZ-16




          1. Vovk
            Vovk 22 November 2020 19: 03
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            Last but not least, photos from the KhTZ-16


  • Vovk
    Vovk 22 November 2020 19: 22
    0
    Quote: Selevc
    And Kharkiv historians say that in the summer of 41, at least one T-28 was hit in the battles for Kharkiv, and it was seen on Moskovsky Prospekt near the Turboatom plant.

    The Chronicle of the battles in defense for Kharkov in 1941 did not mention the T-28.
    But the T-35s were in the modular armored squad, as many as 4 pieces, these were all heavy tanks that participated in urban battles.
    This was just at Moskovsky Prospekt.