Military Review

Soviet and Russian roots of Chinese fighters

49

Attack aircraft Q-5. The original version of the development of the MiG-19. Photo Wikimedia Commons


The Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force has a large number of aviation Chinese-made equipment. However, a significant part of self-assembled combat aircraft suspiciously resembles Soviet and Russian technology. The reasons for this are simple and obvious - at one time, the PRC acquired Russian and Soviet aircraft, which later became the basis for Chinese projects.

Early copies


At the turn of the fifties and sixties, shortly before the breakdown of relations, the USSR managed to betray to China a number of modern front-line aircraft and technologies for their production. So, in 1958-59. in China, they launched the assembly of the J-6 fighter, which was a licensed version of the Soviet MiG-19. Almost immediately, the Air Force wanted to get an attack aircraft based on this machine, but its development was interrupted for several years.

In 1965, the first flight of the Nanchang Q-5 strike aircraft, based on the MiG-19 / J-6, took place. It retained some of the features and components of the base sample, but was seriously different in appearance. In particular, they abandoned the frontal air intake and used a pointed nose cone. In 1970, the Q-5 entered service and became the first production aircraft of its own design by the PRC. Later, more than 10 modifications of the aircraft were created for the own Air Force and six versions of the export attack aircraft.

Soviet and Russian roots of Chinese fighters

The Su-27SK is the progenitor of a whole series of Chinese projects. Photo Airwar.ru

During the restoration of Soviet-Chinese relations, in 1990, the PRC Air Force got acquainted with the MiG-29 fighters and even acquired documentation for one of the modifications. It didn't come to the purchase of aircraft or the launch of licensed production - the Air Force chose a different fighter. However, according to some reports, the acquired documentation was later used in the development of the Chengdu FC-1 fighter. There was no question of direct copying - this aircraft does not look like the MiG-29.

"Su" in Chinese


The MiG-29 was not purchased due to the decision to purchase the Su-27SK and Su-27UBK. 24 aircraft of two types of new construction were handed over to the customer in 1992. In the PLA Air Force, Russian Su-27s received their own designation J-11. In 2002, a second order for such aircraft in the amount of 76 units appeared.

In 1996, they signed an agreement on the licensed assembly of the Su-27 at the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. China ordered 200 of these machines with a total cost of approx. $ 2,5 billion. The first aircraft was assembled from a machine kit at the end of 1998, but the full-scale series was set up only in 2000. Until 2003, the Russian side sent 95 aircraft assembly kits to China. Their composition gradually changed, as the Chinese side mastered the production of certain units.


Su-30MKK of the Chinese Air Force. Photo by Wikimedia Commmons

In 2003, China abandoned further licensed production. It was argued that the Su-27SK / UBK has insufficient characteristics and combat capabilities, is limitedly compatible with Chinese weapons and control loops, etc. In addition, the dependence on imported components was indicated. Before the breakdown of the agreement, they managed to build 95 aircraft out of 200 ordered.

Not long before this, the PRC announced the development of its own project for the modernization of the J-11 with the J-11B index. It was planned to keep the glider of Soviet / Russian origin and equip it with engines, avionics and weapons made in China. Tests of the J-11B began in 2006, and by the end of the decade they had developed a combat training modification of the J-11BS with a two-seater cockpit.

At the end of the 27th PLA Air Force, they began to gradually write off the existing Su-11SK / UBK due to the depletion of the resource. By this time, the SAC corporation had established full-scale production of the J-180B, and modern equipment began to arrive in part. According to various sources, at least 200-11 J-XNUMX aircraft of all modifications have been built to date, which are distributed between the Air Force and naval aviation.


Fighter J-11 Chinese assembly. Photo Wikimedia Commons

In 2015, the J-11D fighter was taken for testing, updated with the use of modern electronic equipment and weapons. Like its predecessors, it is based on the Su-27 airframe, but it has many other differences. Even then, comparisons of the J-11D with the newest Russian Su-35S fighter began to appear in the Chinese media. For obvious reasons, the Chinese car won this "competition". Nevertheless, work on the J-11D dragged on, and it was the Su-35S that was adopted.

In 2012, it became known about the existence of a new version of the J-11 - J-16. This is a multifunctional fighter with improved performance and more advanced equipment. It was reported about the development of a specialized modification-carrier of electronic warfare systems. According to various sources, at least 120-130 units have been built to date. J-16 of both modifications.


Upgraded J-11B. Photo by US Navy

Ukrainian trail


It is known that in the early nineties, the PRC showed interest in the Soviet / Russian carrier-based fighter Su-33. For a long time, the possibility of purchasing several dozen of such aircraft was discussed, but then the volume of a potential contract was reduced to a minimum, and the negotiations stopped.

As it became known later, in 2001, China purchased from Ukraine a T-10K aircraft - one of the experienced Su-33s. The car was carefully studied to master new solutions and technologies. The results of this work appeared towards the end of the decade. In 2009, the first flight of the new carrier-based fighter J-15 took place, and soon the car was shown to the general public. In 2012, flight tests began on the aircraft carrier Liaoning. Now serial J-15s are on board aircraft carriers. Up to 40-50 of these machines have been built, and production continues.

Despite the obvious external similarity, SAC denied the version about copying the purchased Su-33. It was argued that the J-15 is a further development of the J-11. The glider was modified taking into account the new loads and with the introduction of the front horizontal tail; the composition of the onboard equipment was revised taking into account the new tasks.


Carrier-based fighter J-15D. Photo Nevskii-bastion.ru

Originals and Copies


The PLA Air Force and Navy have about 1700-1900 fighters and attack aircraft of various types. About a hundred Su-27 aircraft of two modifications and up to 125 Su-30MKK / MK2 remain in service. Completed an order for 24 units. Su-35S. Under license, 95 J-11 aircraft were assembled from Russian vehicle kits. Thus, a significant part of the PLA tactical aircraft fleet is made up of Soviet / Russian-designed aircraft and, mainly, Russian assembly.

The number of Chinese J-11B (S) exceeds 100-150 units. Up to 50 deck J-15s and more than 100-120 units were built. J-16. The production of such equipment continues, and in the future it will overtake Russian-designed aircraft in terms of its quantity. At the same time, in the field of carrier-based aviation, Chinese fighters have already become unconditional and uncontested leaders.

Currently, the Chinese industry is developing and putting into production the new generation J-20 and J-31 fighters. Apparently, when creating them, technologies were used that were mastered in the production of Russian cars, but this is no longer a direct copying of aircraft. In the future, the number and proportion of new generation fighters in the army will grow, but they will not yet be able to become the basis of the Air Force. Older cars will remain an important part of the fleet, incl. import assembly and development.


Aircraft carrier Liaoning with J-15 fighters. Photo Wikimedia Commons

From different points of view


Lacking a developed school of aircraft construction, China at one time turned to other countries for help. Until the early sixties, he managed to get equipment and technologies from the USSR, and three decades later began cooperation with Russia. Thanks to this, the Chinese industry was able to master several samples of different generations, as well as gain experience for the subsequent development of its own projects.

From the Chinese point of view, all these processes are unequivocally positive. With the problem of re-equipping the Air Force and the Navy, they coped first with someone else's help, and then on their own. At the same time, aircraft manufacturers have always had access to the newest and most modern models of foreign development. Now the PRC has a developed aviation industry capable of gradually meeting all the needs of the armed forces without critical dependence on imported products.

However, such approaches have drawbacks. First of all, this is lagging behind the leaders - copying takes some time and allows foreign countries to get ahead. Moreover, copying foreign designs creates a dubious reputation. So, negotiations on some contracts were delayed due to suspicions of intending to copy equipment.


Experienced fighter J-16D. Photo Militaryparitet.com

Chinese orders, together with other foreign contracts, helped the Irkutsk and Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft plants to survive the most difficult period. However, the break in the agreement on the supply of machine kits to the PRC seriously impeded planning and reduced the real income of our industry. However, this did not have a critical impact on the state of the factories. In addition, SAC did not launch its J-11 family projects on the international market and did not compete with our enterprises.

Thus, China uses every opportunity to develop its defense industry, incl. aircraft construction. One of the main methods of such development is the copying of foreign samples and the use of borrowed ideas. In recent decades, Russian aircraft have been the main source of technologies and solutions in the field of aviation - and this has determined the appearance of the Air Force and naval aviation both at the moment and for the foreseeable future.
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  1. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 18: 13
    -2
    In 1990, the PRC Air Force got acquainted with the MiG-29 fighters and even acquired documentation for one of the modifications. It didn't come to the purchase of aircraft or the launch of licensed production - the Air Force chose a different fighter.

    Even the Chinese understood the pointlessness of the MiG 29 in the presence of the Su-27. It is a pity that ours did not understand this. It was necessary to do what the JF-17 later became.
    1. Civil
      Civil 12 November 2020 18: 43
      +7
      Communist China took the best from the USSR and became world leaders in the life of one generation. Unlike one capitalist country, three worlds are in decline. Therefore, Soviet technology went to the PRC in favor.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 12 November 2020 23: 47
        +2
        One cap country of the third world in decline at one time did the same, and also withstood the worst war in history.
        1. Civil
          Civil 13 November 2020 07: 53
          +1
          Quote: alexmach
          One cap country of the third world in decline at one time did the same, and also withstood the worst war in history.

          The USSR was not a capital country, especially a dear man in decline. And in the war, the USSR was defended primarily by the socialist system. And not stolen oil rigs, factories and fields.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 13 November 2020 09: 09
            -2
            Do you know that Rosneft is a state corporation?
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 13 November 2020 10: 08
              0
              Quote: EvilLion
              Is Rosneft "a state corporation?

              Aha laughing it remains to find out which country laughing
          2. alexmach
            alexmach 13 November 2020 10: 43
            0
            The USSR was not a capital country

            The question is somewhat slippery. but let's say.
            the more dear man in decline

            He was a small gap between two declines.
            But in general, my remark related more to Russia as a whole, whose past was the USSR
          3. Sckepsis
            Sckepsis 14 November 2020 13: 54
            -2

            And in the war, the USSR was defended primarily by the socialist system.


            Bullshit. In the war, the people of the USSR defended their homes and families, not the filthy party with its pseudoileals. And it was the people who won this war, not thanks to, but in spite of the top leadership.
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 13 November 2020 09: 08
        -2
        What did China take from the USSR? Specifically, point by point. Before the United States came to China and built factories there because of the cheapness of the slave. strength from the Chinese did not work. Now China is the country with the largest number of billionaires, the working conditions there are much worse than in formally capitalist Russia. The entire economy of China is tied to the United States and, in general, the sale of consumer goods. Now, when China starts talking about the distribution of profits, it is beginning to spread rot around the world.
    2. Borik
      Borik 12 November 2020 19: 15
      +5
      The Chinese are the unspoken world champions of copying ..
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 12 November 2020 18: 24
    -4
    Yes, really ... They helped on your head ...
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 12 November 2020 19: 21
      +5
      "Brotherly" for a pittance they gave up their place in the world with a "makeweight" in the form of defense capability.
    2. LastPS
      LastPS 12 November 2020 22: 38
      +5
      Well, on the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, a kirdyk would most likely come to factories given that attitude.
  3. Esoteric
    Esoteric 12 November 2020 18: 30
    0
    China is a copying civilization. Well, they can't create something of their own. And then ambition. "The most ancient civilization of the planet", and who started such nonsense. If you are the most ancient, then where are your discoveries in physics, chemistry, mathematics? Where are the inventions of the same steam engine, why did not you explore our planet, did not discover the continents, Antarctica, Australia, why did you, the Chinese, have no curiosity, standing on the shore of the ocean, - "And what is actually over the horizon, but let's see ".
    Why did the Europeans come to you, and not vice versa? What is the reason? And why did the clippers who carried not only tea go from Europe to you, and not vice versa?
    Those who admire China, please answer.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Bradley
      Bradley 12 November 2020 19: 14
      +7
      Well, they can't create something of their own.

      Yah? Who invented paper, compass, gunpowder, silk and much more, right down to the fork we eat?
      You greatly underestimate the Chinese.
      1. Esoteric
        Esoteric 12 November 2020 19: 25
        0
        Compass? Actually, the Vikings still used this device. Powder? There is every reason to believe that in Europe. Silk? Well, this is not an invention, this is different, again, the Arabs knew it perfectly well, I think through India.
        Three fundamental laws of Newton, chemistry of Lavoisier, Mendeleev, Maxwell's electrodynamics, Popov's radio, Watt's steam engine, Copernicus's heliocentric system, the discovery of the atmosphere near Venus - Lomonosov. You can blame Eurocentrism smile
        1. Bradley
          Bradley 12 November 2020 19: 53
          10
          Compass? Actually, the Vikings still used this device.

          Vegvisir is not a compass, but a rune, but there is no tolu from it outside the sea

          Powder? There is every reason to believe that in Europe.

          After the Chinese, it was the Spaniards who began to promote it in Europe. I don’t know how they got it from the Chinese, but the fact that it was China invented this powder is a fact.

          Well, this is not an invention, this is different, again, the Arabs knew it perfectly well, I think through India.

          Where did he get to India?
          And so, the Arabs are also not bastard, we are currently using their numbers, from "1" to "0" are Arabic numbers. At one time, there were very smart guys.
          1. Esoteric
            Esoteric 12 November 2020 19: 54
            +2
            Absolutely right. Both modern mathematics and medicine began with them. Avicenna alone is worth something!
            1. Bradley
              Bradley 12 November 2020 19: 57
              +2
              Absolutely right. Both modern mathematics and medicine began with them.

              But then we Christians happened. The Crusades and that's it.
              1. Esoteric
                Esoteric 12 November 2020 20: 18
                0
                Smiled. smile And there is something in this.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Hypertension
              Hypertension 12 November 2020 22: 08
              +3
              Quote: Ezoterik
              Avicenna alone is worth something!

              Only Avicenna is not an Arab, but a Persian.
            3. Egor53
              Egor53 12 November 2020 23: 58
              -1
              Dmitry, stop writing nonsense about the beginning of "modern mathematics and medicine" among the Chinese. ALL science in the world was created by Europeans. And what is physics, what chemistry, what biology.
              And in art, all non-European art does not even make up a hundredth of European art.
              Racial theory is now extremely unpopular due to political correctness. But she is correct.
              The average Negro and Chinese, in terms of their mental abilities, are no different from a European.
              But there are hundreds of times more geniuses among Europeans than among representatives of other races.
              Read The Psychology of Races by Gustav Le Bon. Strictly scientific book.
              1. Esoteric
                Esoteric 13 November 2020 06: 08
                0
                Arabov meant. The numbers are Arabic. Well, their medicine in the early Middle Ages was at its best.
          2. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 12 November 2020 20: 32
            +1
            we are currently using their numbers
            Our numbers are Indian.
          3. parma
            parma 13 November 2020 07: 31
            0
            Quote: Bradley
            After the Chinese, it was the Spaniards who began to promote it in Europe. I don’t know how they got it from the Chinese, but the fact that it was China invented this powder is a fact.

            These are parallel and independent discoveries, like a wheel or a bow ... So here the achievement of the Chinese is only in the time of discovery (and even then, gunpowder did not receive the same distribution and development as the Europeans)
            Quote: Bradley
            And so, the Arabs are also not bastard, we are currently using their numbers, from "1" to "0" are Arabic numbers. At one time, there were very smart guys.

            In general, these are Indian numbers, even the Arabs call them Indian))) and the Europeans piled them on the Arab just because they took over from the Arabs ...

            Regarding the article, the Chinese are really good at copying and combining technologies from different countries, they took the best from the Soviet and Western engineering schools from what they could find ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 12 November 2020 20: 31
        -2
        paper, compass, gunpowder, silk
        These are intuitive discoveries based on everyday experience. You can't build a synchrophasotron like that - you need abstract fundamental knowledge. And more.
      4. Revolver
        Revolver 13 November 2020 00: 44
        +2
        Quote: Bradley
        Who invented the paper, the compass

        Yes, paper, Chinese, but the compass, Vikings.
        Quote: Bradley
        powder
        Berthold Schwartz
        Quote: Bradley
        шелк
        God. It's just that silk worms (silkworm larvae) were originally found only in China, and it was forbidden to export them on pain of death, and the Chinese knew how to execute them with taste, lynchs (death by a thousand cuts) were just their invention. But some sort of Buddhist monk managed to carry them in a hollow staff, and then silk began to be made wherever mulberry trees could grow, the only suitable food for this worm.
        Quote: Bradley
        and much more,
        What exactly besides lynch? Oh yes, porcelain, human civilization simply could not develop without exquisite porcelain cups.
        Quote: Bradley
        down to the fork we eat?
        From wooden sticks to forks as you like to China in the knee-elbow position.
        Quote: Bradley
        You greatly underestimate the Chinese.

        I evaluate them by their real value. But in reality, everything Chinese is cheap stuff of dubious quality.
    3. Baron pardus
      Baron pardus 12 November 2020 20: 55
      +9
      China is indeed the most ancient civilization in the world. Taoism says "Take what is useful, discard what is harmful." By the way, it was necessary - they bought Lavi from Israel and made their own j-10. I want to remind all critics of China that the USSR, in the 20s and 30s, bought and copied everything that could be done, especially in the military industry. Who made the Soviet cruisers and destroyers? Italians. Ours turned to the French, but they asked too much. Where did the Klimov and Shevtsov avidvizhi come from? Hispano Sewiza and Wright Cyclone. China first copies, then makes its own versions and thus builds its own unique school. China does what we did when needed. So there is no need to criticize the Celestial Empire. They are doing everything right FOR THEIR COUNTRY. Maybe the Russian government needs to do what is needed for the COUNTRY, and not for the oligarchs? By the way, the Japanese can also be blamed for "copying", their F-2 is a variant of the F-16 Agile Falcon, with an increased wing area and Japanese filling. It seems to me that the only country that will survive the next 25 years without shocks will be China. What should others do? To envy and learn from the example of China (how they, by the way, relate to bribery and corruption)
      1. Esoteric
        Esoteric 12 November 2020 21: 03
        -1
        Well, about the antiquity of China, this is not the section of the site. Here it is necessary to history. There is something to argue with the apologists of Chinese antiquity, and this is not my opinion of an ignoramus, but rather venerable scholars - historians, maybe not quite "heard" now, but before they were even very recognized.
        Our science and our scientists are excellent, and they are no worse than the British, the Germans. We are on an equal footing. This is normal. It has always been and will be. Somewhere better they are, somewhere we are. China is different. IMHO, as they say.
        1. Baron pardus
          Baron pardus 12 November 2020 21: 18
          +6
          China after World War II was even worse than the USSR after the revolution. And in terms of literacy levels and industrialization (or rather, its absence). So there was no time to create your own school of aircraft construction, and there was no other time. First we copied, then we learned some more. J-10, not a copy of Lavi. and modern Chinese SDs are also not copies of either Soviet or French non-American ones. China does what the USSR did - buys (or steals) technologies, first copies them and then develops its own on their basis. For example, I took the Italian naval 76mm OtoBreda (a wonderful gun, by the way), first bought it, now modified it and makes its own. And about "Our Science" - I'm ready to argue with you. I'm not talking about the current one, it practically does not exist. We are living out the legacy of the USSR. What's in Tanks, what's in planes, what's in general in operating time. But let's talk about Soviet science. Let's compare our mid-80s aircraft engines with those of the United States. Let's compare our NVDs and radars and sonars with similar ones made in the USA, England, and France. In general, all electronics. Let's make it even easier. Let's compare just gunpowder made in the USSR and the USA, let's compare the fuel for solid-propellant rocket engines made in the USSR and the USA. You can compare BOPSs of the 80s, made in the USSR and the USA or even Germany. Even the aerodynamics for the Soviet BOPS were made by mistake and they lost speed faster than the western ones. You can compare the noise level of nuclear submarines, Soviet and American / English / French. Lord, just read the test results of the captured F-5 against the Mig21 and Mig-23. And the point is not in scientists and science, but the fact is that Khrushchev threw the USSR back decades in these industries, cutting off funding, so they were catching up again (as after the civil war). Why did the Soviet pilots ask for the plane "Such as F-15", because the moment 23 was so great? You can compare the moment 23 with the modern Mirages and even Viggen (Sweden is still a superpower). Soviet science and scientists taxied everyone in the minus when Stalin was. And after that, the problems began - at first, huge under Khrushchev, who wasted the loot for the devil knows what and just stopped progress in many branches of science, and then they began to catch up, but too slowly.


          Compare where China was in the 1980s and where it is now. And then compare where the USSR was in the 1980s and where Russia is seichas.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 13 November 2020 09: 25
            -2
            And you, excuse me, have something to do with science, or just to crow?

            Lord, just read the test results of the captured F-5 against the Mig21 and Mig-23.


            Firstly, it is unclear what kind of MiG-1, in-21, F-2 merged the MiG-5 without a chance, in the same way it lost the MiG-23 dry in the Iran-Iraq war.

            Why did the Soviet pilots ask for the plane "Such as the F-15", from the fact that the moment 23 was so great?


            The F-15 is newer and noticeably larger.

            But let's talk about Soviet science. Let's compare our mid-80s aircraft engines with those of the United States.


            Let's compare with the 60s, and progress will be obvious.

            You can compare the noise level of nuclear submarines, Soviet and American / English / French.


            And what are the successes of the Europeans?

            Actually in the USSR, all problems directly from tsarism, both objective, like bad geography, and subjective, while in the West they confidently went to capitalism, we with grief in half, serfdom was abolished, so much so that the peasant howled.

            And it makes no sense to compare American electronics from the 50s, which have already been in use for decades, and Soviet ones, which were created only under Stalin. Like many other things. And all the statements about some kind of leadership in China, I only cause Homeric laughter. To begin with, they need to raise 2 generations of engineers, and cancel the hieroglyphs, but they still have almost half of the country living in their villages, and they have a lot of energy.

            The USSR and Russia could not have produced the best car or radio in the world, but if you need a nuclear reactor, or a combat aircraft, or other non-mass thing, they will do it perfectly, because the priorities are well-defined.
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 13 November 2020 00: 55
          0
          Quote: Ezoterik
          Our science and our scientists are excellent, and they are no worse than the British, the Germans. We are on an equal footing. This is normal. It has always been and will be. Somewhere better they are, somewhere we are. China is different.

          Look at the lists of Nobel laureates (not in the field of literature, and even more so in the "world"), but in the exact sciences - physics, chemistry, medicine. Almost half are Americans. Then there are Germans, British, French (not necessarily in that order). Russians are also noticeable, although there could be more, but we can write off this on politicizing the nomination process. But I couldn't find any Chinese names.
          Quote: Ezoterik
          IMHO, as they say.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 13 November 2020 09: 26
            -1
            Look at the results of the University Olympiads, ours are there with medals, the Britons are not visible.
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 13 November 2020 10: 21
              0
              The junior championship, with all due respect, is not a world championship.
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 13 November 2020 15: 11
                -1
                This is an indicator of the quality of training of specialists. In the end, those who were leading in junior competitions still get to the world championship.
      2. Esoteric
        Esoteric 12 November 2020 21: 22
        +1
        I don't like their philosophy about the "wise monkey" watching the fight. Than it gives. They smile, bow, sing praises, but keep their little knife at the ready ...
        1. Hypertension
          Hypertension 12 November 2020 22: 17
          +2
          Quote: Ezoterik
          I don't like their philosophy about the "wise monkey" watching the fight.

          I like it, I do not like it - sleep my beauty ... That's why he is the East. It's a delicate matter ...
    4. Roman B_3
      Roman B_3 13 November 2020 02: 27
      +2
      why didn’t you explore our planet, didn’t discover continents, Antarctica, Australia, why you, the Chinese, didn’t have curiosity, standing on the ocean shore, - "And what is there, actually beyond the horizon, but let's see."
      Why did the Europeans come to you, and not vice versa? What is the reason? And why did the clippers who carried not only tea go from Europe to you, and not vice versa?
      Those who admire China, please answer.]

      There was already an article here - the Chinese swam, drank the whole forest in Vietnam on junks, and they raised a rebellion. They sailed to Africa, saw blacks there and concluded that civilization is only in China, and then only barbarians ...
    5. EvilLion
      EvilLion 13 November 2020 09: 13
      0
      Because all this is the result of aggression, as a general desire to study the world and remake it for yourself, aggression is the result of the presence of testosterone, and its level in Asians is 30 percent lower. That is why the Caucasian Russians came to China and not vice versa. And that is why no societies with female leadership are possible, since they simply will not develop.
  4. DrVintorez
    DrVintorez 12 November 2020 19: 04
    +2
    the topic of the moments is not disclosed!
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 12 November 2020 19: 31
      +3
      The last MiG-21SMT - but in a very small series (about 100 vehicles).


      The main branch also goes from the first MiG, although then the Chinese came up with a new wing, well, they re-equipped everything with their own or foreign components.



      At least somehow you can attract more FTC2000. But everything is stupid there, from the ideology and the board layout to the size, fuselage, wing, empennage and tail. From the later Chinese MiG-21, only the engine.


      Choosing between the MiG-29 and their own LMFI, they chose the latter and bought Lavi, on the basis of which they built their main LMFI J-10.
  5. Nasdaq
    Nasdaq 12 November 2020 19: 08
    +4
    Chinese theme in theme.
  6. Snail N9
    Snail N9 12 November 2020 20: 38
    +5
    "I love" articles on the topic, "yes, they had nothing of their own and no! They all licked it off with us, the Russians!" ... So, I directly see that the tanks of the "T" type are conducting their ancestral from Christie, and not from Carden-loyd ..., all jet aircraft are not from Junkers YuMO-004 and BMW-003A, and missiles are not from A-2 ... like submarines, not from XXIII series ... all yourself ... with a purely Russian mind ... yes ... yes
  7. Sibguest
    Sibguest 12 November 2020 21: 08
    +3
    As for the impudent and undisguised copying by the Chinese "comrades" of the best examples of Soviet and Russian military aircraft - do not go to the Chinese grandmother - they DEFEATLY.
    So maybe we have underground shops somewhere in which geniuses develop smartphones, which the Chinese "comrades" also impudently copy and pass off as their Xiaomi, Huawei, etc.? (humor joke ... however)
    1. Esoteric
      Esoteric 12 November 2020 21: 33
      +2
      Well, smartphones are unlikely. They "tear" them in other places. Xiaomi is very good, only the bedkor there probably is "Mama Don't Cry", and they puff not childishly, sending information to the servers of "Chinese comrades".
  8. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 12 November 2020 23: 39
    +1
    Copy, of course, you can. But what characteristics will the copy have? In any case, China has a lot to learn. So much for the Communist Party ...
  9. certero
    certero 13 November 2020 03: 25
    +1
    Quote: alexmach
    also survived the worst war in history.

    This was not a capitalist country. Therefore, I survived
  10. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 13 November 2020 10: 43
    +2
    Well, they copied Soviet planes, so what?
    Why would they have to reinvent the wheel if they could get a ready-made one much easier and cheaper?
    And we did so, and the British with the Americans, and everything and always. After all, it does not matter where you got the right thing from, the main thing is you have it, and it is desirable that it cost you as cheaply as possible.
    And yes, can you imagine what it means to copy a high-tech product?
    This means that these same technologies must first be reproduced.
    And it's not for nothing that they are called high, it's not for you to rip the Italian pants and redraw the contours of the pattern on a piece of paper.
    Yes, even the pants, by the way, then it is also necessary to sew exactly, and the material is also needed.
    And how many of these materials are in the same plane.
    It is not for nothing that our engines are worse than Canadian ones, we do not know how to do that, that is, we do not have the technology.
    The Chinese have not yet caught up with us in aircraft engines, but we are already buying ship engines from them.
    And we don't know how to do electronics, we also buy in China.
    And they are already making new planes themselves without us.
    So we need to wave the flag more carefully.
  11. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 November 2020 13: 01
    0
    All backwardness began with copying and this is natural. This is how Soviet aviation began.
    China's Zh-8 already has its own car. Then the Zh-10 also has no Soviet counterpart.