Military Review

Naval war, defeat, revolution and death

538

A small defeat can be disastrous.


Often we have to face the point of view that in fact it does not matter whether the fleet is combat-ready or not, since the only thing that is important and necessary for the country is that the population fervently believe in our invincibility and could be “proud of the country”, and then - even though the grass does not grow, and who does not agree is not a patriot.

Alas, a similar point of view clearly takes place in the highest echelons of power. Moreover, there is some evidence that this is exactly the case with a number of high-ranking defense industry leaders.

Among the people, this approach is accompanied by such a phenomenon as the mass, and, apparently, characteristic of a significant part of the population, the ability to pass off the wishful thinking. So, a typical jingoist-patriot is not able to distinguish between the events that have happened (in Russia they have adopted, started production, entered the troops, etc.) from the promised events (will be adopted, start production, go to the troops, etc.) ), for "uryakalka" it is one and the same, and these people really do not really understand the difference. With such a contingent, we have almost completely put everyone on our shoulder blades, we are the strongest in the world and there is nothing to worry about, because tomorrow ...

In turn, this is used by cynical businessmen from the press and the media, "spilling" the patriotic segment of the Internet and interested in traffic on controlled online resources, and now the Poseidons are ready to crash into America and split it into pieces, the Daggers are almost we have sunk all American aircraft carriers, and if something happens, we will "glaze" everyone, and whoever does not believe and doubts is an enemy and a traitor. This is what a significant part of the population carries in their heads.

Everything is complicated by the fact that the typical citizen is not able to retain integral memories of what was too long ago, for example, three or four years ago. A person of an average mind almost always remembers what happened relatively long ago in fragments, “in pieces,” the limit for an ordinary normal person, not a degenerate, but not an intellectual, is about four years, then the whole picture begins to disintegrate into fragments. True, for normal people this is not important, they understand the limitations of such an instrument as human memory, and sometimes tend to check whether they remember everything correctly or are wrong. Hence all these reservations in Internet discussions "if my memory serves me" and the like. Memory can really "change", that's okay.

Hooray patriots are a completely different matter. They generally cannot understand the difference between reality and their ideas about reality, and the memory there works at best for six months in depth. Therefore, such comrades can be endlessly promised that tomorrow we will have "Poseidon" and they will endlessly believe it, moreover, since they do not see the difference between "is" and "will", then in their reality this very "Poseidon" stands "on guard". As well as "Dagger".


Our propaganda is simply excellent. Unfortunately, there is not always something really behind it, often they are just parades.

To paraphrase Marx, let us say that an idea that has taken possession of the masses becomes a material force. The masses of jingoistic patriots were seized by the idea of ​​Russia's omnipotence and that the Russian Federation does not have any urgent and requiring an immediate response. And this idea actually became a material force. In Russia, in a number of absolutely critical areas, there are huge "holes" in combat effectiveness, but nothing is being done to eliminate them. After all, nothing needs to be done, we have already “done” everyone, and whoever does not believe, “pours slop on the country”.

I would like to outline the possible consequences of this approach. To do this, let's start with one fundamental problem that Western military theorists are now grappling with.

Nuclear weapons and the need for war


Many people do not know, but war is one of the needs of a person living in an organized society. A soldier who has gone through a fever may not agree with this, but he has already drunk this cup in person, but those who have not yet have a completely different vision of the issue, and it has a very solid basis.

Man is a collective being, for his survival he needs a collective of his own kind, but at the same time, this is an egoistic being who puts himself at the center of the universe. The combination of the need to obey society for the sake of survival and powerful egoism generates an internal conflict that leads to an increase in the aggressiveness of the individual. At the individual level, this aggression can spill out in the form of fights with passers-by, rudeness on the road, family quarrels, and defiantly arrogant behavior. In a mentally weak and notorious person, unable to even cover up a casual passer-by with obscenities, accumulated internal aggression can sometimes lead to mental pathology, and the world gets a serial killer who, being weak, splashes out his unrealized aggression on those who are weaker, women and children.

But this is an individual level. To release internal aggression on it, firstly, not everyone can, and secondly, there may simply not be enough opportunities to release it. To extinguish aggression without releasing it is possible only by acting on the psyche in different ways, the simplest of which are the use of alcohol and drugs.

What will happen if society has nowhere and no one to dump this load on? There will be a society of the late USSR, in which there was nowhere to throw out aggression. At first, it was poured with alcohol - the peak of alcoholization of the population is the end of the 70s, and this fact was reflected even in the cinema, remember Soviet films with alcoholic heroes.

Then, when Gorbachev began his anti-alcohol campaign, Soviet people were surprised to learn that for twenty kopecks they could be killed on the street, somewhere near a beer stall. And then came the nineties, which were remembered precisely for the terrible level of aggression and violence - the "valve" was blown off completely.
How can this problem be treated? In the 90s, she was "cured" by drug addiction, which simply physically destroyed the entire aggressive active contingent and several million more people along with it. But this is not an option, it can be done once every fifty years or so, but not more often.

The outlet for society and its "safety valve" is war. It is in war that the masses "come off in full". And if not everyone succeeds in taking part in wars, then to hate the enemy, watch films in the style of "Rambo", where a completely inhuman enemy is killed in various brutal ways with screams of pain and agony, scroll through this a hundred times in memory, watch several hundred episodes News with smart bombing and artillery shelling of "these" everyone can. And it really helps the masses to let off steam.

For example, the same Americans in everyday life are very friendly and polite, but this all has a downside in the form of many millions of non-Americans killed after 1945. And as the current internal political situation in the United States shows, this is not enough, more is needed. But there is no "more" yet. While.

The USSR could use the Afghan war in the form of the same "valve", but this would require a complete dismantling of the dominant propaganda paradigm "peace-peace!" and its replacement with something like Gorky's "if the enemy does not surrender, he is destroyed", with a corresponding reflection in the culture, in the same cinema. But this was not done, for various reasons. As a result, the aggression of the Soviet people broke through "inside".

Many examples can be found, but we will not do this, we will simply limit ourselves to the fact that war is a natural need for highly organized societies, and the higher the organization, the higher the need for organized violence outside. Or one day it will "burst inward." In fact, war is the export by society of the internal aggression accumulated due to its organization, "the removal of social entropy." And it's not for nothing that the most organized societies on the planet are also the most militant. Moreover, in the case of the "world champion" in these cases - the United States, the reasons for the wars are already clearly and distinctly irrational.

And there are a lot of wars for rational reasons, for example, if the Ukrainian army took Donetsk and Lugansk in 2014, then Vladimir Putin could lose power in Russia due to popular discontent with this fact, and how this would end for the country is an open question. Today we know how this contradiction was resolved. By the way, the Russian Federation fights much more than the USSR and actively promotes this fact in all ways, and, which is typical, the aggressiveness of the population in the country today is much lower than in the 80s.
War, therefore, is inevitable outside of connection with anything.

The current world situation complicates the situation by the fact that in addition to irrational reasons (humanity has not fought on a large scale for too long, there is a lot of aggression) there are also rational ones. For example, the Americans are not satisfied with the trade balance they have with the Chinese, and the Chinese are not particularly willing to change anything. We need to force them somehow, right? But as?

And then there is Russia, which is like a stick in a wheel - too weak to fight for world domination and its advantages, like a negative trade balance for tens of years in a row (with the USA), but too strong to just kick it out of the way to this domination. And these Russians are also helping the Chinese - they build an early warning missile system, transfer missile technology, participate in the design of ships, air defense systems, helicopters, supply components and the like. There was a war with China, and suddenly pipelines and railways from the Russian Federation to China, along with the 19th trade fleet in the world may turn out to be a lifesaver for the Chinese.

It is logical that the Russian Federation should be "removed from the site" in order to decide later with the Chinese. But it is possible, and vice versa - to clean up all the same, first the Chinese, and only then these Russians, who poison everyone with chem. weapons and interfere in elections.

There is a synergistic effect - rational reasons are superimposed on irrational reasons for war.

Today there is some delimitation of approaches. Democrats in the US first want to liquidate Russia and then subjugate China. Republicans are the opposite. As we now know, it seems that the Democrats' turn has come.

But there is one problem with all this - nuclear weapons. A war with Russia could quickly turn nuclear. And this does not in any way correspond to the aspirations of the attacking side - it needs to kill, not die. Thus, first it is necessary to resolve the fundamental question - how to fight with Russia so as not to receive a nuclear strike from it?

This is a fundamentally important question. It would be naive to think that the Americans do not think about such a question. They think, and for a long time, but for the time being, it was "on the sidelines." At a certain point in the United States, they decided that it was no longer worth hiding an awl in a sack, and decided to publish some developments on this topic. And they made it public.

Institute of Russian Marine Research and Non-Nuclear Maritime War with Russia.


The return of Russia to an active foreign policy forced the US Navy to create a "think tank" for assessing the Russian threat at sea. It was the so-called Russia Maritime Studies Institute-RMSI in Newport, organized under the auspices of the US Naval War College - an analogue of our Naval Academy named after I. N.G. Kuznetsova.
On the RMSI website the following is said about its tasks:

“The mission of the Russian Maritime Research Institute (RMSI) is to conduct research on these (listed under the link to RMSI - AT) maritime issues on behalf of the US Navy and NATO partners. In agreement with the relevant elements of the US Navy ... he develops and carries out an extensive research program, and then distributes the finished research to the leadership of the Navy ... "

All this is about Russia and its maritime affairs, of course. The activities of the RMSI are mostly of a closed nature, since the decisions contained in the study of this structure determine what decisions the US Navy and politicians in Washington will make.

But they did make something public. First, these are literate translations into English of all Russian doctrinal documents related to maritime policy and the fleet.

And secondly, this is a curious document called "Report on the seminar" Nuclear Stability with Russia and North Korea Workshop Write-Up ".

The title of the document does not match its content. In reality, the topic of the seminar was different, namely, how to fight with Russia and North Korea, without provoking these countries to use nuclear weapons first.

The document is short, the Newport professors give the following recommendations on Russia (in short):

For politicians: The Russians are not suicides: nuclear deterrence is working, a situation where there is military action, but there are no threats to the existence of the country and to the strategic nuclear forces, and all command structures remain functional, most likely will not end with the use of nuclear weapons. It is necessary to make it clear to Russia that the United States and NATO are not going to change its borders and political regime, and this makes the use of nuclear weapons unlikely.

For the US Navy: To drive the Russian Navy into "bastions", where it can defend itself, not to carry out offensive operations in these "bastions", but to suppress the exit of Russian forces from them. Operations in the deployment zones of strategic nuclear forces and full-scale strikes on the territory of the Russian Federation should not be carried out, since this dramatically increases the risk of using nuclear weapons, instead, it is necessary to concentrate on one direction of the strike and limited escalation outside the territory of the Russian Federation, and all this within a limited time frame.
Could this be "misleading"? Yes, but in any case, the publication of such documents allows us to build at least two hypotheses for military planning. One is that the Americans will fight in this way, the other is that this is how they will not fight. This is already something, but we will not explore such possibilities, we will look at something else: for one important point in this document, which remained "without continuation" - it appeared there, but no special conclusions were drawn from it, but it is clear that this moment the Americans discussed and had in mind.

In fact, the fact that this fragment was not cleared from the report is a serious blunder, but everyone is mistaken, even the Americans.

This is the fragment we're talking about.

Finally, while domestic political priorities cannot be discounted, the workshop participants concluded that Moscow is unlikely to use nuclear weapons to gain political support domestically (for domestic political reasons, author's clarification) - unless the Putin regime concludes that impending defeat during a conflict will undermine the legitimacy of the government and threaten the existence of [the country or the regime] through internal unrest (with the loss of the territorial integrity of the country or the onset of another event vital to the course of the war)

For those who did not understand, we highlight the key point that the Americans discussed

... looming defeat during a conflict will undermine the legitimacy of the government and threaten the existence of [a country or regime] through internal unrest

This is an important point. The Americans are well aware that the unrestrained military propaganda that is taking place in our country makes military power and the ability to defeat enemies one of the foundations of the legitimacy of power. We have not had economic breakthroughs for a long time, there are no wonders of the world such as the 2014 Olympics either, there are no bright events, super-holidays and the like, but there are military parades, “we can repeat”, an immortal regiment, “Dagger” and “Vanguard” and so on.

In part, the West itself is to blame for this militaristic tilt, in any case, prior to Crimea, the priorities of the Russian leadership clearly lay in a peaceful plane, but the “partners” were able to effectively break all our tools, except for the military.

And this caused a side effect, which, unfortunately, was not realized either by the authorities or by society - if the military machine of the Russian Federation fails, then it will be EVERYTHING - the people will consider it a complete and final failure of the government as a whole. We chose cannons instead of butter, everyone agreed with this, everyone accepted that there was no choice. This turned out to be historical moment, nothing special, not the first time so.

But "guns" must always win now. No options. And not "at any cost", but quickly and efficiently - in proportion to the intensity of propaganda.

If the military suddenly fails to fulfill their tasks, it will be a failure of the authorities and the scale of this failure will be such that it will lead to the loss of the legitimacy of the government in the eyes of the masses.

Simply, the social contract will be violated. The people agreed to tighten their belts in exchange for victories. If in exchange for a tightened belt comes defeat, then the authorities are finished. This is Russia, here, as they say, "does not roll", no amendments to the Constitution will help. Those who were already of a conscious age in 1991 understand this well and remember how such things happen. And Americans understand and remember too.

This is a critical aspect. Let us decompose the phrase about internal unrest into its components once again in order to understand the train of thought of our enemies.

So, Moscow can use nuclear weapons first if:

... looming defeat during a conflict will undermine the legitimacy of the government and threaten the existence of [a country or regime] through internal unrest

what if there is no threat to the country's existence at this very moment? If the "regime" assesses its ability to cope with the internal political situation as sufficient?

Then the defeat and undermining of the legitimacy of the government will be, and the use of nuclear weapons will no longer be.


That is, the war will be lost, or, at worst, not won. The legitimacy of the authorities will be undermined, a revolutionary situation will develop, but there will be no critical consequences for the United States and its allies!

And the Americans did not formalize this conclusion directly following from the report - but we see from their own text that this topic was raised there! They are studying this issue, discussing it!

Thus, we will "finish" for the Americans their work - if the scale of the defeat of Russia is not too great, then nuclear weapons will not be used, but a revolutionary situation in the country may be created.

So far, the United States has no understanding of how to wage such a war. From the speeches and articles of a number of state and public figures, it is possible to reveal interest in the potential naval blockade of the Russian Federation.

Moreover, the actions of Russia itself in the Sea of ​​Azov, where an extremely "soft" for Ukraine quasi-blockade was carried out, show that in order to inflict significant economic damage, even ships do not need to be picked up, it is not necessary to confiscate cargo, it is enough just to delay neutrals for several days and subject to sanctions those ports through which Russian cargo is transshipped. Russia exports by sea most of its exports, almost all of its oil, almost all of its grain, imports also go through ports, and their cargo turnover has shown considerable growth until recently. Russia's independence from ties with the outside world is a myth, and a very stupid one that does not pass any reality check.

However, blockade or not blockade is an open question. But the enemy's understanding that a military defeat inflicted on Russia can cause a coup in our country has been formed. This is a fact that does not require any further proof.
It only remains to organize it at the right time.

Disaster scenario


A small introduction. Japan carries out armed provocation in the South Kuriles, very limited in scope, for example, destroys a missile boat, after which it claims that it was defending itself, and the Russian barbarians attacked first. World media confirm.

Japan is not leading any escalation, but it is conducting a demonstrative deployment of large groupings of its navies. Ours, naturally, react to this too. Further, some "Soryu" or "Taigei" consistently goes to some curtain of submarines and sequentially attacks a pair of new "Varshavyanka".

This is in propaganda we are the best. But in reality, we have Stone Age torpedoes, boats do not have anti-torpedoes, there are no modern hydroacoustic countermeasures, there is no normal telecontrol even for those torpedoes that are, and the boats themselves are, in fact, modernized Soviet developments.

How will the duel of the newest Japanese submarine with modern torpedoes and countermeasures against our "Warsaw" end? This is a rhetorical question. And if you then find the second and destroy it too?

What will the Pacific Fleet counter this? Ancient unmodernized IL-38? What can they do? MPK pr. 1124 / 1124M? How many are left? And how many corvettes are there in the Pacific Fleet? Enough for all dangerous areas?

Of course, there are always risks for the enemy, this is a war, but in this case they are minimal. And then - diplomacy, Japan is backing down, "we would like to reduce tension", etc.

As a result, the enemy retreats in exchange for the status quo. Considering how enormous Japan's superiority is over the forces of the Pacific Fleet, the Eastern Military District and, in terms of a number of parameters, over all the RF Armed Forces, this is a very "cheap" option - to disperse like this.

Will nuclear weapons be used "in exchange" for two missing submarines (the enemy does not have to blow at all corners about what has been done), and even in the conditions of a retreating enemy, behind whose back is nuclear America?

The answer is as clear as God's day - no. Of course, "uryakalka" will not agree with this, but this is only because 2015 was too long ago, and they have already forgotten about it. We remind you.

And then the most "interesting" begins. The enemy, after the ceasefire, in detail, relish, with illustrations and videos, tells at every corner how these deaf and unarmed Russians were drowned. How their torpedoes went to "bait". How their hydroacoustic countermeasures proved to be useless over and over again. How they tried to break away and could not. Like a telecontrolled torpedo hit right on target.

With explanations about how telecontrol works and how the hose reel, standard for all mankind, except for Russia, is superior to the towed hose reel typical for the Russian Navy, which all mankind has long abandoned. With explanations of why it is almost useless to launch a homing torpedo against a modern submarine, but the Russians did it in an attempt to escape. With explanations of how a normal anti-submarine aircraft could have worked and how the antediluvian Il-38, corresponding to the western level of the early 60s in its capabilities, showed itself instead.

And all this will be translated into Russian and spread by our "fifth column" so fiercely that the concept of underwater combat and how far we lag behind the whole world in this will even arise among housewives. And at this moment the society will have questions to the authorities, which the authorities will not be able to answer.

Moreover, even jingoistic patriots, at this moment banging their heads against the cruel reality, "will see clearly" and "understand" (words in quotation marks, since this contingent cannot understand something by nature) that "they were deceived"! They were promised "Poseidon", "Dagger", "the whole world in dust, but then", "glaze", they were shown the Main Naval Parade, and as a result, Japanese videos translated into Russian were released about the effortlessly easy destruction of our submarines and powerlessness our anti-submarine forces - moreover, just confirmed in practice. The psyche of these people will not survive such a mental blow.

And then what will happen?

There will be the same complete, unconditional and final loss of the legitimacy of our authorities in the eyes of our own population.

Will our main enemy be able to take advantage of this? This is the same rhetorical question as the discussion of the results of the battle between "Taigei" and "Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky".

It is now that they can call to a riot only a bunch of psychiatric patients, homosexuals, dissatisfied with the infringement of their rights, Navalny's supporters with their hair dyed green, remote patriots of Ukraine who have turned away from the ATO by fleeing to Moscow, and a similar contingent.

But after such a humiliating slap in the face, completely different people can take to the streets. And extras can be recruited from the same jingoistic patriots: they are stupid, they can be moved like "units" from a computer game, thrown without weapons at machine guns and generally spent as you like. They were deceived ...

But it won't be over. Because there is another “trend” that is opposite to what is openly discussed in the RMSI and similar structures. And he, too, can no longer be hidden.

Fantasizing about a very, very limited small-scale non-nuclear war with Russia and fomenting a revolution in it as a result of a military defeat, the United States is making very intensive and expensive preparations for a completely different war. Quite nuclear.

The last act of the drama


In the summer of 1996, the Americans helped Boris Yeltsin win the elections in Russia. And in the fall in the United States, Congress approved funding for work on new warheads for submarine ballistic missiles, those that are today known as the W76-2.

Congress showed amazing foresight - even then, in 1996, they knew that they would need high-precision warheads that would allow the use of SLBMs as a means of first strike, and nuclear deterrence would not be particularly needed, since the new warheads do not have a thermonuclear part and their power is reduced to 5-6 kilotons, with a significant increase in accuracy.

The fact that work on these combat units began immediately after Yeltsin went to the next term, and Russia was already "written off" aloud, is, of course, a coincidence.

The Americans fiddled with new combat units for a very long time, and their deployment began only this year.

In general, the topic of the fact that nuclear deterrence is of much less interest to Americans today than before, but a nuclear attack is much more, was discussed in the article “We are building a fleet. Special Operations: Nuclear Deterrence " (it also explains the differences between the new combat units from those that were previously and disclosed a host of other issues related to the conduct of nuclear war and its containment).

Naval war, defeat, revolution and death

Above - the fall of old warheads on the target, below is a diagram of the detonation of new ones. This is the specificity of the new detonators, and it is they that make it possible to use SLBMs in the first strike - successfully.

Now the US Navy has ample opportunity to conduct an offensive nuclear war - their SLBMs are accurate enough to strike silo launchers. In 2027, in addition to these missiles, the Navy will receive missiles with a hypersonic glider in non-nuclear equipment, and missiles with the same glider, only ground-based, will be received by the US Army.

If the Americans succeed with hypersound, then they will be able to destroy our ICBM launchers from a short distance and from an unexpected direction in one blow. If it does not work out with hypersound, then you will have to attack in a purely nuclear version, but in general, nothing is impossible in this.

The lifting by Congress of the ban on the development and creation of small-sized nuclear charges allows a return to the sabotage use of nuclear weapons, which makes it possible to neutralize an early warning system from the territory of the Russian Federation (although the delivery of small-sized ammunition to Russia will be difficult, it cannot be considered unrealistic).


A saboteur with a container for a nuclear weapon.


And this is the ammunition itself. Today you can make it smaller and more compact.

However, such an operation contains a lot of risks fraught with a Russian strike against the United States. In addition, even the total superiority of the US submarine over ours does not guarantee that at least one missile-carrying submarine of the Russian Navy will not remain undetected by the US Navy submarines and then will not work on American territory.

How can these risks be reduced to zero? What must happen so that the Russians lose the ability to maintain security at the proper level within the country, so that one can hope with a high degree of probability to neutralize the early warning system and the Strategic Missile Forces control system, so that submarines with ballistic missiles are not at sea at all?

The answer is simple - there must be an internal confrontation in Russia, at least a sluggish civil war, the necessary condition of which is what? That's right - a revolution. And it doesn't matter whether it is successful or unsuccessful, socialist or nationalist - it doesn't matter.

Is the puzzle starting to take shape?

Everything is simple in fact. The Russian Federation has catastrophic failures precisely in the combat readiness of the Navy. At the same time, the people believe that our fleet is omnipotent. At the same time, the confidence of the people that our military power is boundless has become one of the sources of the legitimacy of the political system.

What happens if some, in the opinion of the population, a second-rate enemy inflicts a humiliating, but at the same time minor, insignificant military defeat on Russia, which cannot entail a "nuclear response"?

There will be a loss of the legitimacy of power in the eyes of the population, and after that, through the efforts of both the enemy - the United States, and the local “fifth column”, it will be possible to organize a “color revolution” in Russia without any problems - the authorities will simply have no one to rely on, after a military failure they will not perceived as power, there will be no support at all.

Further, internal unrest, even small ones, some chaos, an economic downturn - and here they are, the conditions for an unrequited American nuclear strike against the Russian Federation.

Will they apply it or not? Nobody knows. Now this, apparently, is an open question for them. But preparations for such an operation in the United States are underway, and new combat units for the Tridents are a vivid evidence of this.

Apparently, we are still being led to this option. Some decisions and actions of the people in charge of naval development in the Russian Federation bear clear and distinct signs of deliberate sabotage. Up to reducing the ability to "make money" for the sake of weakening the Navy. When some "statesman" makes sacrifices in order to stop a project important for the country's defense, send the state. money for another, unrealizable, and at the same time someone has professionally cleaned up a biography on the Internet (there are no traces at all, except for officialdom, as if the person was already born an adult with a printed biography on a piece of paper), then this is puzzling, to put it mildly. And there are many such cases.

So what awaits us in the end? Where and how will our patriotic frenzy end? They tried to push us against Turkey in 2015, and if it succeeded, then we would have seen the executed "Warsaw" (and not only) in that year.

We almost ran into her again because of Idlib quite recently (see article "Will frigates with" Caliber "be able to pacify Turkey?... We could have encountered it in Libya, but chose to quietly leave, handing over this theater of operations to the Turks.

And there was also a strange multi-move in Armenia, when the West immediately put both its president and its prime minister there, and the latter brazenly and boldly began to provoke Azerbaijan to the war, in no way, at the same time, not preparing to defend Karabakh, without doing anything for this, arresting pro-Russian statesmen in Armenia, up to the CSTO Secretary General. What was that? An invitation to us to fit in for Armenia against Turkey?

At the same time, neither the Japanese claims to our territories, nor the crazy Poland disappeared anywhere. So far, we are bypassing the traps on the topic of "making war with Turkey," however, we have to hand over some of them. But this cannot last forever: not Turkey, so someone else will work against us with American "kamikaze".

At the same time, on land, few people can cope with us, only the Americans themselves are not a fact. In the sky, everything is more complicated, but there the Aerospace Forces are at least trying to move in the right direction, but the Navy is a really weak point, as well as the understanding of war at sea by the political leadership in principle, and if they hit us, they will hit there. And then - see above.

Doesn't all this cause any concern to anyone?

Conclusion


By virtue of all of the above, the disclosure of all those problems that exist in our fleet becomes vital. Mine action, mines, torpedoes, anti-torpedoes, naval aviationboth anti-submarine and shock (assault) programs, the adequacy of shipbuilding programs to threats, albeit within the framework of a poor budget - all this must be "highlighted" with merciless precision.

How to really make the authorities puzzled by the combat effectiveness of the Navy (and more broadly - the RF Armed Forces as a whole, although in general everything is not bad)? And everything is simple - an idea that has taken possession of the masses becomes a material force.

And if in the domestic mass consciousness a strong demand is formed to correct all the shortcomings in the Navy, then these shortcomings will sooner or later be eliminated. Practice shows that this method works, albeit extremely slowly.

In any case, we have no choice. In another way, the people cannot influence anything, and this one sometimes turned out to be working. So you have to "push".

Because otherwise events will follow the chain of “war-defeat-revolution-nuclear strike”. And this will be the end, after this we will not rise. This will be the last change of power in our history.

It is easier to ensure that the submarines get new and modern weapons, the minesweepers would be modernized, the corvettes were built with normal radars, the aircraft carrier was out of repair on time, and the preparations for war would go “in a real way”, as Lenin insisted at the time.

Time is running out and the risks are getting higher and higher.
Author:
Photos used:
RF Ministry of Defense, US Army, US Navy, Lockheed Martin
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          1. credo
            credo 11 November 2020 18: 53 New
            -14 qualifying.
            Why did the Author decide that:
            "... Will nuclear weapons be used" in exchange "for two missing submarines (the enemy does not have to blow at all corners about what has been done at once), and even in the conditions of a retreating enemy, behind whose back is nuclear America?

            The answer is as clear as God's day - no. Of course, the "uryakalka" will not agree with this, but this is only because 2015 was too long ago, and they have already forgotten about it. We remind you ... ".

            If the Russian Navy has such a depressing situation as the Author described here, then the use of nuclear weapons suggests itself. This is the first thing.

            And secondly, why not remember 2008, the year of Georgian aggression against our peacekeepers. Ours worked very well at a long distance destroying enemy ships. Why cannot the same method be applied against the same Japanese squadron if the Japanese have a desire to start a war? Close range naval battles seem to have long since sunk into summer.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 05 New
              +3
              Quote: credo
              If the Russian Navy has such a depressing situation as the Author described here, then the use of nuclear weapons suggests itself. This is the first thing.

              fool
              however YOU are not original
              there were "freaks" (with the letter "M") in shoulder straps that nuclear weapons offered to "trawl mines" - in OWN waters belay
              Quote: credo
              I would not remember 2008, the year of the Georgian aggression against our peacekeepers. Ours worked very well at a long distance destroying enemy ships.

              is it YOU about shooting anti-ship missiles at a civilian ship?
              or SAM for poachers?
              lol
              1. credo
                credo 11 November 2020 19: 19 New
                -5
                Quote: Fizik M
                Quote: credo
                If the Russian Navy has such a depressing situation as the Author described here, then the use of nuclear weapons suggests itself. This is the first thing.

                fool
                however YOU are not original
                there were "freaks" (with the letter "M") in shoulder straps that nuclear weapons offered to "trawl mines" - in OWN waters belay
                Quote: credo
                I would not remember 2008, the year of the Georgian aggression against our peacekeepers. Ours worked very well at a long distance destroying enemy ships.

                is it YOU about shooting anti-ship missiles at a civilian ship?
                or SAM for poachers?
                lol

                If you decide to be funny, then what does my comment have to do with it.
                I didn't find anything useful in your passage either, except for someone's abstruse reasoning about mines.
                As for firing missiles at long distances, the successful firing of them in 2008 once again proved to be effective, however, as did the firing of missiles from the Caspian Sea at targets in Syria at a later time. A good example of the use of such products on distant approaches to preserve their armed forces, civilian population and economic potential.
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 25 New
                  +5
                  Quote: credo
                  As for firing missiles at long distances, the successful firing of them in 2008

                  fool
                  this is YOU about "those who are crazy about such happiness" belay "Moldovans" at Lotos-1? lol
                  Quote: credo
                  as well as firing rockets from the Caspian Sea at targets in Syria at a later time. Good example

                  work in POLYGON conditions?
                  1. credo
                    credo 11 November 2020 19: 39 New
                    -1
                    is it YOU about the "mad from such happiness" belay "Moldovans" at Lotos-1?
                    ----------------------------------
                    Your comments require translation into Russian.
                    1. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 46 New
                      +9
                      Quote: credo
                      Your comments require translation into Russian.

                      read something other than murzilian propaganda
                      behind one look (at least one eye) the wreckage of "Malachite" on the "Lotus"
                      they are on the network (I am now looking for lack of time)
                      1. Lex_is
                        Lex_is 11 November 2020 21: 21 New
                        +5

                        Happy Lotos-1 crew with a gift.
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 12 November 2020 22: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        read something other than murzilian propaganda

                        It is about firing anti-ship missiles and anti-aircraft guided missiles at Georgian boats. But this example has no value in this discussion and on the topic of the article - the example was given on the actions of more advanced enemy submarines against our less toothy and less protected ones.
                    2. timokhin-aa
                      11 November 2020 20: 23 New
                      24
                      The anti-ship missile from the Mirage went to the Moldavian dry cargo ship Lotos-1. This is one of the hidden facts of that war. The anti-ship missile did not hit the boat of the Georgian Navy.
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 12 November 2020 06: 14 New
                        0
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        The anti-ship missile from the Mirage went to the Moldavian dry cargo ship Lotos-1. This is one of the hidden facts of that war. The anti-ship missile did not hit the boat of the Georgian Navy.

                        why didn't you sink? It seems that she did not get into the dry cargo ship ..
                      2. srelock
                        srelock 13 November 2020 20: 06 New
                        +3
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        This is one of the hidden facts of that war. The anti-ship missile did not hit the boat of the Georgian Navy.
                        This is one of the oldest Georgian-Ukrainian tales about that war. Refers to the "pre-Sumerian" era of Yushchenko's rule. laughing
                2. Ryusey
                  Ryusey 11 November 2020 20: 15 New
                  0
                  And what are the firing distances of anti-ship missiles you consider long?
                3. Runway
                  Runway 12 November 2020 02: 00 New
                  10
                  With your permission, one typical example: 91 years old, in the “order of interaction” the chief of the detachment and the battalion commander opulab, having checked the “clock” (kbp op), organized a “socialist competition” - the outpost of the mangroup and the motorized rifle platoon were firing on the topic “in defense” Leveling the chances, ours were shooting at the shooting range of the army, the infantry on ours. To voice the result of both divisions? wink
                  There are no organizational conclusions at the moment. Alas. Therefore, when broadcasting about "biathlon" and "onslaught", "defeat from the first shot / start" - you need to be careful with the perception.
              2. olegactor
                olegactor 12 November 2020 02: 15 New
                -2
                is it YOU about shooting anti-ship missiles at a civilian ship?
                or SAM for poachers?


                if you are an attempt to attack KUNIKOV .... then the Georgian boats were not carrying weak weapons, including anti -arable missiles and torpedoes ... and the RK protection order worked for 5 + .... and before writing this, it is advisable to be in a similar situation yourself. ..this RC rescued a large landing craft with paratroopers
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 12 November 2020 02: 34 New
                  +4
                  Quote: olegactor
                  worked for 5+.

                  How are you with eyesight? -


            2. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 11 November 2020 19: 35 New
              +5
              Quote: credo
              If the Russian Navy has such a depressing situation as the Author described here, then the use of nuclear weapons suggests itself. This is the first thing.

              Nuclear weapons, in this case, will not be used, for quite prosaic reasons, far from the army and the navy. Where is the money of our "leaders", all these Potanins, Chubais, Deripasoks kept? It is quite natural that the Anglo-Americans will impose sanctions, declare them responsible for the "crimes of the bloody regime" and squeeze their money and foreign property under the guise. And there are still plenty of similar measures against our state with a "raw" model of the economy.
              Quote: credo
              And secondly, why not remember 2008, the year of Georgian aggression against our peacekeepers. Ours worked very well at long range destroying enemy ships.

              Japan is not Georgia. In the event of a nuclear-free war with Japan, a repeat of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904 awaits us, with our Tsushima and Mukden. Russia is incommensurably weaker than the USSR, both militarily and economically. But the USSR, perhaps, could afford a nuclear-free war with any enemy in the APR.
              1. credo
                credo 11 November 2020 19: 46 New
                -9
                [quote = aleksejkabanets] [/ quote]
                Nuclear weapons, in this case, will not be used, for quite prosaic reasons, far from the army and the navy. Where is the money of our "leaders", all these Potanins, Chubais, Deripasoks kept? It is quite natural that the Anglo-Americans will impose sanctions, declare them responsible for the "crimes of the bloody regime" and squeeze their money and foreign property under the guise. And there are still plenty of similar measures against our state with a "raw" model of the economy. [/ quote]

                Following your logic, I would like to ask a question - why did the Anglo-Saxons not use such an "effective" method after the Crimea became part of Russia? The spirit did not have enough or they forgot about it.

                [/ Quote]
                Japan is not Georgia. In the event of a nuclear-free war with Japan, a repeat of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904 awaits us, with our Tsushima and Mukden. Russia is incommensurably weaker than the USSR, both militarily and economically. But the USSR, perhaps, could afford a nuclear-free war with any enemy in the APR. [/ Quote]

                And about August-September 1945, why have they completely forgotten?
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 58 New
                  +6
                  Quote: credo
                  And about August-September 1945, why have they completely forgotten?

                  no, don't forget - CONCLUSIONS DONE
                  unlike us
                2. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 11 November 2020 20: 01 New
                  +7
                  Quote: credo
                  But why did the Anglo-Saxons not use such an "effective" method after Crimea became part of Russia?

                  The peaceful entry of Crimea into Russia and the nuclear war with Japan, with millions of victims, are probably not the same thing?
                  Quote: credo
                  And about August-September 1945, why have they completely forgotten?

                  Comparing today's RF with the USSR is at least stupid. Or is it such sarcasm in order to show the "achievements" of Russia?
                3. Ryusey
                  Ryusey 11 November 2020 20: 16 New
                  -10 qualifying.
                  I wrote a hogwash and am glad to a pig squeal, funny.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 11 November 2020 20: 20 New
                    +8
                    Quote: Ryusey
                    I wrote a hogwash and am glad to a pig squeal, funny.

                    Kirill, please use quotations, otherwise it is absolutely unclear what your comment refers to.
                4. nickname7
                  nickname7 13 November 2020 19: 55 New
                  0
                  But why did the Anglo-Saxons not use such an "effective" method after Crimea became part of Russia? The spirit did not have enough or they forgot about it.

                  To take away the assets of the roselite, this powerful weapon will not be used for trifles, Crimea is like firing a cannon at sparrows, but the organization of a puppet pro-Russian government in 14 in Kiev, for this assets would be taken away.
                5. victor50
                  victor50 13 November 2020 21: 26 New
                  +1
                  Quote: credo
                  Following your logic, I would like to ask a question - why did the Anglo-Saxons not use such an "effective" method after the Crimea became part of Russia? The spirit did not have enough or they forgot about it.

                  And who said that they will not apply? Maybe they are still counting on how to minimize possible losses and damage.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 26 New
                -5
                It is quite natural that the Anglo-Americans will impose sanctions, declare them responsible for the "crimes of the bloody regime" and squeeze their money and foreign property under the guise. If you are still asleep, they have been doing it for the sixth year already - and yes, the Americans themselves have admitted that the sanctions against Russia are coming to an end, since there is nothing to introduce them. And yes, the share of raw materials in our economy is 37% of the rest of the production and service sector.
                Japan is not Georgia. In the event of a nuclear-free war with Japan, we will have a repetition of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904, with its Tsushima and Mukden There will be no tsushima - even if the fleet in the Pacific is not strong, but Russia has something that was not there in 1904, namely strategic aviation, which is for one raid with conventional cruise missiles will destroy all military bases and industrial areas of Japan, and the Japanese themselves are aware of this, so there will be no war, especially with the Japanese, China is in confrontation, and in this situation he will not miss his own, and the Japanese are aware of this.
                1. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 11 November 2020 22: 40 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  they've been doing it for six years now

                  And squeezed a lot? So far, Deripaska was pinched and in general that's all.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  and yes, the Americans themselves admitted that the sanctions against Russia are coming to an end because there is nothing to introduce them.

                  Do you believe the enemy? Have you tried to think about it yourself? What sanctions would you impose if you were in their place? Would you ever run out of them?
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  namely, strategic aviation, which in one raid with conventional cruise missiles will destroy all military bases and industrial areas of Japan

                  Don't you find it funny? For one raid? With nuclear weapons yes, without nuclear weapons - no. And how many strategic aviation do we have, how many missiles are in a salvo? And the Japanese have no air defense?
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 11 November 2020 23: 34 New
                    -8
                    Without nuclear weapons, missiles X 555 and X 101 with a conventional warhead have been produced since 2006, so there are many without nuclear weapons and they have already worked in Syria a lot - but you probably overslept or forgot, or maybe you did not know, X 15 also remained the same X 22, X 32 and now, when leaving the INF Treaty, the Iskander will have extended-range missiles, if they have not already appeared and they will be able to reach Japan from the Khabarovsk Territory - there is also a universal caliber piece, and there are also Daggers on the MiG 31 platform, all strategic carriers in Russia 76 + 60 Tu 22M3 and at the expense of the Japanese air defense 196 Patriots who have a minimum defeat height of 20 meters above ground level and in the Air Force 202 F 15 and 60 F 16 whether they can intercept low-flying cruise missiles is an open question. And all the sanctions are ultimately limited to the spheres of activity - you can't impose sanctions on all of them, that's why the US runs out of sanctions instruments, it only has to impose on individuals and companies, and the rest is bypassed.
                    1. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 12 November 2020 11: 32 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      apparently it was overslept or forgotten or maybe they did not know

                      do not tear the trampoline
                      especially given the fact that the number of WB KR at the time of 2013 was announced by Shoigu
                      and there is an extremely miserable figure
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      same X 15 remained the same

                      Pyashi ISTCHO clown, add also KSR-5, KSR-2, X-10 lol
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      available X 32

                      yes YOU are an addict wassat , my friend lol
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      202 F 15 and 60 F 16 whether they can intercept low-flying cruise missiles is an open question.

                      only for you lol
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 13: 05 New
                        -5
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        Called the number of missiles fired by Russia?

                        Yes
                        and the time of data preparation for them too (EMNIP - more than a month)
                        Shl still shriek
              3. Fizik M
                Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 00 New
                +3
                Quote: Vadim237
                sanctions against Russia are coming to an end as there is nothing to introduce them

                by and large, sanctions against us have not yet been introduced, because all that was was garbage (except for the "barrier" for loans)
              4. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 12 November 2020 17: 06 New
                -5
                hey hey hey ... you what! so nizya! Timokhin said that only the fleet means the fleet! and nothing else) wink
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 12 November 2020 11: 50 New
            +5
            Quote: credo
            And secondly, why not remember 2008, the year of Georgian aggression against our peacekeepers. Ours worked very well at long range destroying enemy ships.

            That's just the Navy to this destruction of enemy ships at a long distance has no relation. For both RCA of the Georgian Navy were destroyed by the group of Lieutenant Colonel Lebed in Poti.
            RCA "Dioscuria":

            RCA "Tbilisi":
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 14 November 2020 18: 46 New
              +2
              The Russian Ground Forces are much more effective anti-ship forces than the Russian Navy laughing
          3. rusboris
            rusboris 12 November 2020 23: 51 New
            +2
            War is one of the constant factors in the existence of human civilization. And material interest acts as a cover, a human instinct to always fight. All the talk about world peace, smokescreen. Currently, an interstate war with Russia is unlikely because of nuclear weapons. This means that we will wage wars of low intensity (hybrid). For such wars, it is necessary to develop economic thinking (only business, nothing personal) and manufacture special equipment. But, that's a topic for another article. It is somewhat surprising to ignore the obvious facts that will slightly open the veil of future naval battles. For example, the battle for the Falkland Islands. A clear example of unacceptable material damage to an English squadron as part of an aircraft carrier and frigates. The squadron narrowly escaped a complete rout. Fresh examples of tanker warfare. They confirm the complete absence of Iran's class of ships to guard oil convoys. Open intimidation of participants in the construction of the Nord Stream 2 oil pipeline by NATO warships. In the Mediterranean Sea, there is a division of gas fields with the participation of warships. Two hostile frigates are spinning like cats at a cat's wedding. And they can't do anything. It's scary to shoot. It hurts to ram. Naval affairs for the country's economy have always been difficult and completely incomprehensible. With the sunset of the sailing fleet, the star of the Russian fleet went down. The principle of reasonable sufficiency is now needed. And fools and swindlers in the Russian defense industry need to get rid of. For example, the power of couch experts to shoot those who want to build an aircraft carrier and a nuclear destroyer in Russia.
            1. max702
              max702 13 November 2020 23: 14 New
              +1
              Quote: rusboris
              For example, the power of couch experts to shoot those who want to build an aircraft carrier and a nuclear destroyer in Russia.

              YOU have decided to shoot the author? He just drowns for this ..
              Regarding the non-use of nuclear weapons by Russia, 3 (THREE) people in the country make a decision on the use of nuclear weapons, they have no real accounts and nothing else over the hill .. And the decision is made within 5-10 minutes .. and who said that TNW is not applicable? just as a measure of sobering up, even Japan is just the first in this list, since the goal for it is simply ideal .. The minimum territory, the highest density of urbanization as a result of the minimum distance between the goals, causing maximum damage with minimal impact .. The USA will stand up for Japan and unleash a war of destruction? This is delusional and nothing more, as soon as the United States is convinced of a strong-willed decision on the use of nuclear weapons by Russia, all the current games in the escalation of sanctions and other ideas will stop after the first nuclear mushroom anywhere ..
          4. fomin
            fomin 14 November 2020 18: 35 New
            0
            About the "dashing" battle with the Georgians in 2008 see: https://flot.com/blog/katastrofa/strannosti-morskogo-boya-10-avgusta-2008-goda.php
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 11 November 2020 18: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: Merkit
        Let's not quarrel. I may be to blame, here.

        let's
        in this case - to blame
        Timokhin writes on the case
        according to the scenario described in the article (in the nuclear part), in my opinion there are certain errors, but not fundamental (I will not write my assessment of the issue (options for a "disarming strike" by the United States) on an open resource)
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 14 November 2020 19: 04 New
          0
          Quote: Fizik M
          but not essential


          There are also fundamental ones, however, slamming our NSNF in the interval of 1-2 hours is a couple of orders of magnitude easier than the Strategic Missile Forces
      3. Civil
        Civil 11 November 2020 19: 31 New
        +9
        Author, you are approaching the question as if Russia is still the USSR and a superpower. And we have a capitalist country 3 in the world, moreover, in decline. And the country has no money for huge fleets. And there is no idea what these fleets are for. The former most likely adversary already gets what he needs.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 32 New
          -11 qualifying.
          "And we have a capitalist country 3 of the world, besides, in decline" - Yeah, in "decline" The 6th economy of the world out of 200 countries, this is a decline. " anti-ship MRBMs will reduce all its power to nothing - cheap and cheerful.
          1. Esoteric
            Esoteric 12 November 2020 16: 27 New
            +6
            I don’t know where you found the economy there, but the salary was, as of today, 6 green bills per month, for an 300-hour working day, on the machine. And on this machine was the highest grade, and could do everything on it. But since they do not want to pay, then it is not necessary, let them work themselves. Only that there is no willingness to work for a salary of the level of African countries.
    2. Machito
      Machito 11 November 2020 18: 36 New
      0
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      Quote: Merkit
      I wonder how many cents they throw for this vyser?

      And to you, for the endless grunting? The author raises the right questions. And all this against the backdrop of endless budget cuts for the Armed Forces.

      Alexander comprehensively considers the issues of the defense capability of our fleet.
    3. paul3390
      paul3390 11 November 2020 19: 07 New
      10
      What is right about them? As soon as the mattress makers decide that they have played enough with Russia, they will simply give our type of elite everything that it has been desperately seeking for 30 years. Recognition for their own equal and a place at the table where they share the world pie with goodies. And this is where the history of the Russian Federation as an independent player will be over. As well as the history of our aircraft. As unnecessary for our ruling class .. And all this will happen - without any bangs and saber rattling. We will be merged and sold at the same moment.

      For there are no fundamental contradictions between our bourgeoisie and the Western ones - there is no trace. It's just that they offer too small and insulting piece, while ours think that they deserve much more. Well, of course - they destroyed the USSR itself and sold it to the West! I would like to have a more impressive fuck with this ..
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: paul3390
        As soon as the mattress makers decide that they have played enough with Russia, they will simply give our type of elite everything

        those who thought so were very surprised in 2014
        1. Essex62
          Essex62 11 November 2020 20: 25 New
          +6
          And what exactly were you surprised? What happened in that year too? As the country lay under Western capital, it also continued to lie.
      2. Ryusey
        Ryusey 11 November 2020 20: 17 New
        +5
        "Rome does not pay traitors" ...
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 November 2020 12: 07 New
        +1
        Quote: paul3390
        What is right about them? As soon as the mattress makers decide that they have played enough with Russia, they will simply give our type of elite everything that it has been desperately seeking for 30 years. Recognition for their own equal and a place at the table where they share the world pie with goodies.

        Why would they? Moreover, for a fairly large part of the US elite, the end of the Cold War was akin to a catastrophe - for it disappeared red threatwhere you could have with impunity confuse personal wool with state... And the opportunity to profit from the wreckage of the USSR did not cover this loss of stable income. It is unlikely that the Yankees will again chop the branch on which they sit.
        Nobody will give anything to our elite. Moreover, in the event of the surrender of the Russian Federation, they will not have villas and accounts, but a show trial "in the name of the triumph of democracy." And their property will partly go away democratic Russia new elite.
      4. Esoteric
        Esoteric 12 November 2020 18: 12 New
        +5
        Here you are a little wrong. The Anglo-Saxon elite, at least in its British form, will never recognize it as their own. You can be super rich, but you don't go to them. No, if you are from the Rurik family, then perhaps they will completely accept, I think, even if you are not particularly burdened with riches.
        But the same "Count" Kirkorov will not be allowed to mow the golf lawn.
    4. saigon
      saigon 11 November 2020 19: 14 New
      +2
      The author puts the question correctly, but there are also implicit assumptions. There is one problem about Japan, the whole country from a heap of islands is essentially not a mobile aircraft carrier group and calling things by their proper names with an extremely compressed population in small areas. Therefore, the Japanese fleet does not save.
      Actually, the issues are topical, and besides the power of the fleet and its ability to fight back, the most important is the political will, the willingness to use nuclear weapons for example in Japan.
      The theory of sea power has legs from the 19th century, the convoy, the landing on the transition, the suppression of trade in the presence of nuclear weapons is solved simply by a blow to the ports and everything and convoys and landings and trade are not relevant.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 31 New
        0
        Quote: saigon
        calling things by their proper names with an extremely compressed population in small areas

        "The sheriff's niggas problems aren't ...."
        carcasses of Japs "Washington Regional Committee" are not interested
        moreover, if there are a LOT of them, from this "obkom" you can have a "LOT OF BONUSES"
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 11 November 2020 20: 46 New
        +6
        Quote: saigon
        There is one problem about Japan, the whole country from a heap of islands is essentially not a mobile aircraft carrier group and calling things by their proper names with an extremely compressed population in small areas. Therefore, the Japanese fleet does not save.

        It is the Japanese fleet that saves them, because there is no one else to save them. The ground forces are very small, and the aircraft industry has not given birth to a single truly national Air Force aircraft since WWII to this day. On the other hand, the powerful shipbuilding potential allows the production of warships of any complexity and of any size. They would have rebuilt their aircraft carriers long ago, if not pressure from overseas masters.
        1. timokhin-aa
          14 November 2020 16: 22 New
          +2
          The ground forces are very small, and the aircraft industry has not given birth to a single truly national Air Force aircraft since WWII to this day.


          Their ground forces are about half of ours with the possibility of a rapid increase in numbers at the expense of reservists, which is up to a truly national aircraft, then you can fight non-national
    5. antivirus
      antivirus 11 November 2020 20: 01 New
      -2
      If the military suddenly fails to fulfill their tasks, it will be a failure of the authorities and the scale of this failure will be such that it will lead to the loss of the legitimacy of the government in the eyes of the masses.

      and I am a urakolka, according to you.
      SBIvanov, Minister of Defense, etc., etc., in the mid-2000s: the war comes on the wings, from the sky ((not exactly), following the results of the conquest of Iraq.
      EVERYTHING IS UNDERSTANDING - AND TO WHOM THE FLEET IS GIVEN LITTLE MONEY - TO PREPARE IN THE BATHROOM.
      NO MONEY FOR THE FLEET - EVERYTHING GOES TO CREATE A "RUSSIAN WALL STREET" AND Silicon Valley (investments, support for entrepreneurship (we don’t know a big one and we don’t see it - BUT IT EATS UP EVERYTHING, and SMEs are crumbs), etc.
      there will be no aircraft carriers - first Khodor and Alekperov, now Sechin and Miller + Gref-Kostin are working tirelessly and language (you confuse their propaganda of "building an advanced market economy" (including SGLazyev) with your propaganda "by winning, we won everyone" )
      15 years ago, it was determined to the detriment of the fleet - the construction of the Strategic Missile Forces and the Aerospace Forces. there would be a birth rate, and a land route would be built ..

      and aircraft carriers - sir knows him! (with the replacement of "from" to ... Russian on the fence)

      I know for sure - only the use of nuclear weapons in response to small (more than 1 boat), including regardless of the limitation period of clarification of the situation in the death of something else - REVENGE - COLD DISH - IF THE RULERS HAVE A TONE INSIDE - THERE IS THE ROAD ...
      against the Japs we are building a Chinese fleet

      once again ------ money will go to Afromax - not aircraft carriers. see above about "the market will fix everything and win"

      not fully answered - this is enough
    6. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 11 November 2020 20: 17 New
      -2
      I would generally divide all commentators into "uryakalok" and "whiners". I even tried to calculate as a percentage in completely different topics ... Well, what can I tell you - whiners win by an advantage of about 20%, although I counted on the number of posts, and not on the authors ... so the "whiners" may simply be more loud. Who is really right, I do not know - I understand both of them - some are sick of hearing that everything is fine with us, although in reality it is not so ... others are sick that everything is bad with us, although this is not entirely true. Where is the truth? As usual, somewhere in the middle. :)
      And, here's another thing ... if the "uryakols" can be perceived as our propaganda, then many statements of the "whiners" are perceived as counter-propaganda, and some particularly vivid monologues are read in general as enemy propaganda aimed at destroying Russia.
      1. AUL
        AUL 11 November 2020 20: 50 New
        +4
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        I would split at all all commentators on "uryakalok" and "whiners".
        Sergei Averchenkov alone in a white tailcoat is infallible!good
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 12 November 2020 03: 13 New
          +1
          Unfortunately, no. I have more than enough sins. :)
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 59 New
        +3
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        I would generally divide all commentators into

        and I would divide into people with brains and those who "left them on a hanger" wink
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        counterpropaganda, and some particularly vivid monologues are read in general enemy propaganda aimed at the destruction of Russia

        carefully re-read the article in the part concerning
        "Lies and lies in propaganda, agitation and the press discredit the party political work, the naval press and inflict exceptional harm on the cause of the Bolshevik education of the masses."

        From the directive of the Deputy Commissar of the Navy of the USSR and the Chief of the Main Political Directorate of the Navy, Army Commissioner 2, rank IV Rogova.
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 12 November 2020 03: 17 New
          +4
          Re-read my post - "I tried to calculate as a percentage in absolutely different topics". And about the brains on the hanger ... I would not be so categorical. :)
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 12 November 2020 03: 32 New
            -2
            Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
            And at the expense of the brains on the hanger ... I would not be so categorical. :)

            the statements of the "whiners" are perceived as counterpropaganda, and some particularly vivid monologues are read as generally enemy propaganda aimed at destroying Russia.


            those. You don't know the concept of CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM?
      3. Cottodraton
        Cottodraton 12 November 2020 03: 50 New
        -2
        There is no need to call patriots vile words spoken by different paid boats. These subchiks are the whiners. There are anomalously many of them due to their artificiality. Paid for this. In fact, most of this contingent is sitting in neighboring countries, emitting "air of freedom" into their trousers for every comment.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 12 November 2020 06: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Cottodraton
          In fact, most of this contingent is sitting in neighboring countries, emitting "air of freedom" into their harem pants

          in fact, most of the "urakryaks" are sitting in olgino, shmolgino, nikolo-yamskaya (at a well-known address), doing prostitution FOR MONEY
          and the real patriots of the country have nothing to do with this trash
      4. nickname7
        nickname7 13 November 2020 20: 08 New
        0
        I would generally divide all commentators into "uryakalok" and "whiners"

        And on the Echo of Moscow forum, how do you divide the commentators?
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 14 November 2020 03: 40 New
          -1
          I wasn't standing there. :)
      5. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 14 November 2020 13: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        And, here's another thing ... if the "uryakols" can be perceived as our propaganda, then many statements of the "whiners" are perceived as counter-propaganda, and some particularly vivid monologues are read in general as enemy propaganda aimed at destroying Russia.


        and to illustrate ... then either - https://youtu.be/DIuyWvhXfUs ....

        or - https://youtu.be/mERrIoDQNm4 ....

        in general, - ".... choose who you want to be deceived ?!" ...
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Rumblings
    Rumblings 11 November 2020 18: 40 New
    0
    Just wondering.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. businessv
    businessv 11 November 2020 20: 59 New
    +4
    Quote: Merkit
    I wonder how many cents they throw for this vyser?

    As I understand it, you are able to pile more abruptly ?! Come on, and we will appreciate! Although, judging by the pursuit, hardly! hi
  6. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 11 November 2020 21: 19 New
    -6
    I read a few lines and already recognized the author. Then I read "diagonally", because again there are a lot of numbers, very controversial conclusions, etc. Especially amused, I'm not afraid of the word)))) genital thought, about the fact that if a Japanese submarine sinks a couple of Russian "Warsaw women", then Russia will not use nuclear weapons. So nuclear warheads are already in Japan))) one of them is called "Fukushima". One "caliber" per power unit and Hiroshima (Nagasaki), the Japanese will remember how the good old holiday "Sakura Blossom")))))
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 28 New
      -1
      Quote: TermNachTER
      genital thoughts, about the fact that if a Japanese submarine sinks a couple of Russian "Warsaw women", then Russia will not begin to use nuclear weapons

      this nonsense in a jar and in kashchenko
      Quote: TermNachTER
      One "caliber" per power unit and Hiroshima (Nagasaki), the Japanese will remember how the good old holiday "Sakura Blossom")))))

      for those who are "on an armored train and in wooden helmets" once again - OBKOM (WASHINGTON) THIS WILL ONLY WELCOME, because it unties their hands on a lot in relation to the Russian Federation
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 35 New
        +2
        "For it unties their hands on a lot in relation to the RF" This is what exactly - well, well, well?
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 50 New
          -14 qualifying.
          Quote: Vadim237
          well, well, well, well?

          you will talk to your ducks in the bathroom
      2. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 11 November 2020 23: 19 New
        +5
        Quote: Fizik M
        OBKOM (WASHINGTON) THIS WILL ONLY WELCOME, because it unties their hands on a lot in relation to the Russian Federation

        to whom and what unleashes ??? USA? unties his hands on the use of nuclear weapons ??? Have you completely recaptured your memory? The United States does not need to unleash anything, it is already the only country that has used nuclear weapons on civilians.
        remember already the only thing that binds the US hands is the nuclear potential of the Russian Federation, which provides an inevitable retaliatory strike.
        even if the Russian Federation, after the Japanese attack on Russian submarines or other ships, blows Japan to the state of a scorched desert with the help of nuclear weapons, this will have almost no effect on the nuclear potential of the Russian Federation, and therefore will not in any way affect the capabilities of the United States against the Russian Federation.
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        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 13 November 2020 01: 27 New
          -1
          Quote: SanichSan
          even if the Russian Federation, after the Japanese attack on Russian submarines or other ships, blows Japan to the state of a scorched desert with nuclear weapons

          fool
          nothing pokes you like that lol
    2. victor50
      victor50 13 November 2020 21: 45 New
      +3
      Quote: TermNachTER
      about the fact that if the Japanese submarine sinks a couple of Russian "Warsaw women", then Russia will not begin to use nuclear weapons

      Uh-huh! Carriers of cruise missiles (if they launch in Syria) sunk ?! Israeli aviation, having delivered the S-300 to Syria, landed ?! Turkey refused to buy tomatoes (for a while) for the downed Su-24! Azerbaijan recently shot down our helicopter - apparently, we have expressed concern! If the chatter about our determination was somehow confirmed ... the world would be somewhat different .. The war in Karabakh would most likely not have started. Nuclear weapons are applicable! Aha !!!
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. frog
      frog 11 November 2020 18: 22 New
      +4
      That is, never?
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 41 New
        +5
        Perhaps - yes. And this is encouraging. smile
        1. frog
          frog 11 November 2020 18: 54 New
          0
          Well, these, which, like, you need - not really ... Another thing is that the methods there should be different, but we have with them ... traditionally ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 59 New
            +2
            Yeah ... about the traditions.
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 12 November 2020 01: 20 New
              +2
              Come on nafik such "traditions" as the Operator. I don't have a single word for these "pi-characters". Nature that day was not just "resting" - it was coming off not like a child. The result is sad. "What has grown has grown." (FROM) bully
    2. The comment was deleted.
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      1. Lexus
        Lexus 12 November 2020 01: 29 New
        +2
        Alexander hi,
        it will then be in its natural habitat. Thanks for the interesting material! good
  • 210ox
    210ox 11 November 2020 18: 27 New
    17
    But they are testing our reaction. With the same helicopter in Armenia. And the statement that any missile in the direction of Russia will be regarded by me as a nuclear attack now looks like an empty shell.
    1. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 19: 09 New
      +3
      With the Mi-24 there was a provocation to be drawn into the war.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 11 November 2020 19: 51 New
        0
        And what about the Su24? The Black Sea is restless. Almost every day, from Vityazevo, aircraft fly out to intercept.
        1. timokhin-aa
          11 November 2020 20: 00 New
          +1
          And with the Su-24 too.
      2. Igor Semenov
        Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 20: 03 New
        +3
        Multipurpose and win-win combination for any RF response options
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 36 New
        -5
        How - why the hell does Azerbaijan need?
    2. WapentakeLokki
      WapentakeLokki 11 November 2020 20: 29 New
      -1
      .. well, we leaked our Su-shku to Erdogan .. well, the Pasans died and ... the women still give birth to them .. that's South Stream is more important ... so with the Azeri .. well, they killed the Mi-7 crew and what .. but nothing ... and so in everything ... we merge with everyone (from Veliko-ukrov to the nationalities ...) but we still consider ourselves a `` Great Power '', and in fact the Russ (and not the foolish Rasseyan ) there was a rule of Blood revenge. for an eye TWO EYES ... for a tooth with ALL JAWS ... maybe that's why Prophetic Oleg nailed his shield to the gates of Constantinople ... but where and what did the Russ of the sample of 24 nailed ???
      1. La Peruse
        La Peruse 12 November 2020 00: 04 New
        +1
        It's a pity only in Tsargrad itself they did not know about it
  • rocket757
    rocket757 11 November 2020 18: 27 New
    +3
    We cannot lose because we cannot lose ...
    We cannot but fight, because we cannot but fight ...
    In short, WHAT WAS IT?
    Why was it necessary to turn up such a fence, maybe it was worth writing a few understandable theses that would indicate the most critical, obvious problems.
  • Avior
    Avior 11 November 2020 18: 28 New
    19
    ... By the way, the Russian Federation fights much more than the USSR and actively promotes this fact in all ways, and, which is typical, the aggressiveness of the population in the country today is much lower than in the 80s.

    As for me, this thesis is not indisputable.
    Only the other day, in the parent class group of one of the schools in Volgograd, parents discussed the time during which the children should do their homework, as a result, the next day, the uncle of one of the students from the hot southern republic broke the head of another student's dad, a single father, with knuckles. as a result, the child was left without a father. I don’t remember how parents discussed schoolchildren’s homework in the 80s ...
    And with a possible way out for aggression, there seemed to be no problems - the historical homeland just invited all immigrants from the republic to take part in hostilities.
    1. frog
      frog 11 November 2020 18: 33 New
      16
      What are you? After all, they can kill. Why should he go there, to his homeland? After all, they have ubi bene, ibi patria. It's easy to shout about your greatness. Either here, or at the parliament ... And here, after the murder, the community will also buy it out ...
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 43 New
        13
        I wish they could all write out a free ticket to the "historical homelands" and let them wave brass knuckles as much as they like. Dreams, damn, dreams .......
        1. frog
          frog 11 November 2020 18: 45 New
          +4
          And who will solve demographic problems? They don't want another way wink
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 49 New
            +4
            And who will solve demographic problems?

            Yes, I myself would have contributed, but the age and strength are not the same, there will be no flow. laughing
            1. frog
              frog 11 November 2020 18: 52 New
              +4
              Not cheap nowadays ... to contribute repeat From quite direct, I can judge by myself, by relatives and friends .... The point is, the stump is bright, not only in money, but the doctor does not heal for free, and the teacher does not teach. It's ok if there was money repeat
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 58 New
                +5
                "And the money is in the nightstand." I would like to know at what address. laughing
                1. frog
                  frog 11 November 2020 19: 17 New
                  +9
                  Yes, a donkey with her, with a bedside table. Used to pay for work and would not interfere with work ...
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 11 November 2020 19: 22 New
                    +4
                    But this has long been a problem.
                    In, some ghoul with a minus got out, and I already began to wonder - something is "quiet" today.
                    1. frog
                      frog 11 November 2020 19: 54 New
                      +3
                      How without them ??? boring without them wink the hour is uneven, a thought creeps into my head, sho the idea of ​​the adjutant le grand Charles came true repeat
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 11 November 2020 20: 01 New
                        +1
                        De Gaulle's adjutant? What's an idea?
                      2. frog
                        frog 11 November 2020 20: 04 New
                        +8
                        According to rumors)), he once exclaimed in his hearts something like: "Death to fools!" To which the patron remarked: "Your program has a large scale ..."
                      3. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 01: 36 New
                        +2
                        Dmitriy hi.
                        "Few will survive." (FROM)
                      4. frog
                        frog 13 November 2020 08: 53 New
                        +1
                        There is such a historical story. At the feast / reception, Catherine La Grande raised a toast to the same. Shaw would, they say, all the fools died .... And Leksander Vasilich put his grail on the table. She asks, what is it, they say, does not the Count want to support her toast? And the latter, with a serious face on his face, answers: "I'm afraid, mother, the plague will be fierce."
              2. Igor Semenov
                Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 20: 05 New
                +2
                Welcome smile That is, as "some"? And Andryusha? laughing
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 11 November 2020 20: 08 New
                  +2
                  Hi Igor smile and what kind of animal is this Andryusha?
                2. Igor Semenov
                  Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 20: 42 New
                  +3
                  Your admirer Operator laughing
                3. Catfish
                  Catfish 11 November 2020 21: 11 New
                  +3
                  Well, in that case, no bottom for him, no tires. laughing
  • d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 11 November 2020 18: 48 New
    0
    It is high time to ban these groups (at least in the widespread format of a common chatter), but surprisingly, schools themselves create "official" groups and teachers cook in this for most of the day.
    1. Avior
      Avior 11 November 2020 19: 05 New
      +9
      Groups can be banned, brass knuckles can be banned, hot people from the southern regions can be banned, or schools can be banned.
      I wonder what options are chosen by those who are supposed to choose
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 11 November 2020 20: 10 New
        +7
        Send their children to study abroad, which, in general, they already do.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 12 November 2020 01: 41 New
          +4
          "Yorshik" says that everything is not so simple. laughing

  • timokhin-aa
    11 November 2020 19: 05 New
    +7
    I don’t remember how parents discussed schoolchildren’s homework in the 80s ...


    There were no online chat rooms in the 80s.
    But they killed on trifles, this was, incl. on the streets. At the end of the USSR, so generally as hello.
    And this despite the fact that in the 60s in some places at home the doors were not locked.
    1. Essex62
      Essex62 12 November 2020 10: 04 New
      +1
      At the end of the USSR? So the authorities stopped working, preventive maintenance and vigilance. The zealous, accustomed to crushing predators, were dispersed so as not to interfere with the bandits and the nascent backbones, to get rich. A person naturally becomes aggressive when children have nothing to eat and salary. don't get paid.
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 19: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Avior
    As for me, this thesis is not indisputable.


    Statistics show that the number of murders is decreasing.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 11 November 2020 20: 07 New
    +2
    And there were no problems with a possible way out for aggression.

    it was from the beginning - they don't report meat to tigers, but we did not understand humor

    and the naval officers just need to prepare to die for their homeland or do balancing in the garage to everyone who pays.
    light stars on the shoulders were not and will not be
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 11 November 2020 18: 38 New
    +1
    Everything is said in the case, but a nuclear strike does not really fit. Why withdraw huge territories from household circulation when, with the proper ability to keep the local kings on a leash, you can get the labor of a huge country indefinitely and free of charge.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 18: 41 New
      -1
      Quote: evgen1221
      Everything is said in the case, but a nuclear strike does not really fit.

      fits
      because the option with a response does not make them happy
      The problem is that in the medium term, the United States has no prospects at all, if you do not arrange a "big badabum", and it is with the use of nuclear weapons (stupid for "utilizing extras")
    2. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 19: 06 New
      +8
      Why did you decide that something meaningful will be removed from the economic circulation? A counterforce strike will arrive - on silos of the Strategic Missile Forces, military bases, command posts, airfields, etc.
      This will only be the beginning, not the end.
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 11 November 2020 22: 04 New
        -3
        And where and how much of this all over the country is scattered, further such a rosette of winds exists and, in total, a small small area is utilized for a long time. Well, you can't put an invader with a revolver on each one so that he could work on the contaminated territory and not run away, and who needs radiation products. So the principle blows away. But here is the revolution of a booze and on the sly of a peacekeeping occupation for the purpose of non-proliferation of yao and technologies it is quite possible to crank, and there are plenty of people who want to participate. In the current state of the country, I think that squeezing out sparsely populated Kamchatka will be enough to start the scenario you described.
        1. timokhin-aa
          11 November 2020 22: 12 New
          +7
          All this, even on maps, has long been drawn. There will remain a lot. In addition, the invaders will not need to run anywhere - the locals will be recruited into the colonial troops, and they will figure out where the radiation is and where not.
      2. Polite Moose
        Polite Moose 11 November 2020 22: 12 New
        +4
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        This will only be the beginning, not the end.

        And for the decontamination of the affected areas by removing the radioactive layer of soil and debris of buildings and structures, the population living in the area, shovels and plastic bags, which will fit later for the population itself, will be enough.
        The article covered a very unexpected, but in my opinion, quite realistic scenario of the final phase of the confrontation. If to someone the described situation with Japan seems fantastic and unreal, then what can I say? It was the author's, purely hypothetical version. You can throw a hundred such scenarios in half an hour. And all of them, with varying degrees of probability, can claim to be viable, for, unfortunately, there are enough territories around us, from which the provocation described in the article can follow with a subsequent continuation. Who disagrees with the author, remember how painful the seemingly insignificant, single losses of our armed forces in Syria were. Thanks to the author for covering the topic from an unexpected (for me in any case) angle. hi
        1. timokhin-aa
          12 November 2020 15: 31 New
          +3
          It was the author's, purely hypothetical version. You can throw a hundred such scenarios in half an hour. And all of them, with varying degrees of probability, can claim to be viable, for, unfortunately, there are enough territories around us, from which the provocation described in the article can follow with a subsequent continuation.


          That's right, that's what I meant.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 40 New
      -6
      What kind of kings - where do they get the power on the ground. And the most important thing for any nuclear strike will be a nuclear retaliatory strike with an automatic machine and do not care what warheads are used.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 11 November 2020 18: 39 New
    15
    Hurray-patriots are quite another matter. They generally cannot understand the difference between reality and their ideas about reality,
    How dare the author even say such a thing! And how the editors allowed this to be published! Whose mill is the author pouring water into? Who is the fan throwing on? For whom does the loaf crumble?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 51 New
      11
      Nightmare, obscurantism and Zionist intrigues of the Naglosak capitalists! am laughing
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 November 2020 12: 20 New
      +5
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Whose mill is the author pouring water into?

      Traditionally - world imperialism and the Israeli military. smile
  • Lex_is
    Lex_is 11 November 2020 18: 51 New
    +1
    Many thanks to the author for another very interesting article that raises important issues!

    Fighting with the neutralization of the early warning system and the control system of the Strategic Missile Forces by the enemy is of course planned, and the enemy is preparing for them, but they are unlikely.
    But force pressure, pressure and provocations from the United States are a standard policy instrument, and they will use it (and have been using it for a long time) and, naturally, this must be resisted, for which a strong fleet is needed.
    Carried away by dreams of massive nuclear strikes, people forget what a huge impact on society and power is now being exerted by disproportionately smaller events, for example, the tragedy with the K-141 Kursk SSGN.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 42 New
      -5
      This tragedy took place in 2000 since then in Russia there have been many disasters, both man-made and natural - we got used to them.
      1. Lex_is
        Lex_is 11 November 2020 23: 00 New
        +3
        What I am saying is that the tragedy was so painfully perceived by society that even 20 years later they write and talk about it. Not to mention the fact that 12 films have been filmed about her.
        In 2020, a bunch of articles dedicated to the tragedy in major publications came out.
  • SaLaR
    SaLaR 11 November 2020 18: 53 New
    +5
    clear ... clear ... and unpleasant ... but true ...
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 12 November 2020 09: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: SaLaR
      clear ... clear ... and unpleasant ... but true ...

      Like this, damn it, unexpected TIMOKHIN !!! belay
      The first part is neo-Malthusianism in its bare form, an attempt at the biological determination of social processes. yes
      To account "unpleasant".
      Not that word! Disgusting !!! Insulting, grotesque! Staggeringly AWESOME !!! But ... the goal has been achieved: the NAKED KING !!! And this is a bitter truth, although I really do not want to admit it ... my entire naval being opposes this ...
      The tragedy of the FLEET lies in the fact that he still remains a PASYNK in the support of his army stepfathers. With all the ensuing consequences ...
      It's a pity ... sincerely sorry.
      And the shadow of TSUSIMA is already looming in the misty distance ... (as in V.S.Vysotsky: - Someone's shadows rise near the filthy swamps ...)
      One hope is that they will not dare ... for the wisdom of the country's leadership ... for the patience and conciliarity of the people, the willingness to make unprecedented sacrifices to save the homeland. I say this sincerely. (for minus players and cheers for patriots - from the high bell tower ...)
      BUT.
      1. timokhin-aa
        12 November 2020 15: 32 New
        +2
        The tragedy of the FLEET lies in the fact that he still remains a PASYNK in the support of his army stepfathers. With all the ensuing consequences ...


        And it keeps getting worse. And it will end in disaster.
        1. Alien From
          Alien From 12 November 2020 16: 04 New
          +1
          Thanks for the article, many unpleasant topics have been raised. Agree with many hi
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 12 November 2020 20: 08 New
          0
          Alexander, hi
          I think that the situation will slowly but surely improve. The main thing is not to get into time trouble!
          And this is where my confidence is based. In 2017, the Security Council made a decision to "shift to the right" financing of the shipbuilding program. Priority was given to the Strategic Missile Forces, RV and SV. Reasons - a problem with components for the fleet. Then inflation slowly ate part of the funds, the previously formed corporation collapsed ... so, the production of gearboxes and gas turbine engines for NK was able to establish only in 2020. It seems that the construction of boats was put on stream. Slowly, but the issue of fine-tuning 677, construction of 777 projects is being resolved.
          The main feature is the equipping of the fleet forces with 3M22, new means of detection, air defense systems ... But in the "underwater sphere - silence". This is sad.
          1. timokhin-aa
            12 November 2020 20: 19 New
            +6
            Before 1904, ships were also set up ...
            We need to start with the restoration of command, we will soon bend naval science, it does not have the tool that it should define, there is nowhere to grow the Commanders-in-Chief, only from the fleet to the entire Navy, regulatory documents do not provide criteria for the correctness or incorrectness of decisions, the same "Fundamentals of Naval Policy" is just a game from which no strategy can be pulled out, and so on.

            Naval aviation - on my knees, separately anti-submarine - a corpse, etc. That is, there is a desire for VLOOKUP to have "some kind of fleet", but there is no sense from it.

            Well, on the little things - a lack of understanding of the meaning of weapons on ships and planes, etc.

            I am still skeptical. The fleet is not only ships and sometimes not so much.
  • d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 11 November 2020 18: 59 New
    +6
    The problem is clear. And the age-old dilemma, how to punish a bully boy without beating him in an adult way (i.e. using nuclear weapons)? In the current reality, while diplomats and the Security Council crumple their boobs after another shot down plane or helicopter, there is no obvious solution yet. If you dream up, perhaps some kind of weapon with a short reaction time and a long range. Something like Iskander, only more modern and with a range of 1500 km. And a fairly short preparation time. Those. a certain incident happens, in the Kuril region "by mistake" a non-nuclear submarine is torpedoed - an immediate retaliatory strike against the Yokosuka naval base. And only then accept the apology.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 11 November 2020 19: 11 New
      0
      Those. a certain incident happens, in the Kuril region "by mistake" a non-nuclear submarine is torpedoed - an immediate retaliatory strike against the Yokosuka naval base. And only then accept the apology.

      You understand that this is unreal, and no one is afraid of this?

      Stops the possibility of effective retaliatory actions here and now, for example, an escorting and pressing "Taigei" frigate or BOD is a good stopping factor, therefore. that it is very likely that weapons will be used against it immediately, without waiting for a political decision.
      1. Ryusey
        Ryusey 11 November 2020 20: 23 New
        -3
        When Kursk was sunk, this was very evident.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 45 New
          -4
          Krsk died from a fire and a torpedo explosion - stop talking garbage about the fact that someone sunk there is no evidence.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 48 New
            -1
            Quote: Vadim237
            Krsk died from a fire and a torpedo explosion - stop talking garbage about the fact that someone sunk there is no evidence.

            shit here carry YOU, and constantly
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 12 November 2020 13: 04 New
              -5
              Yes, yes, yes - there will be evidence against or so another svizdobolstvo from the source of the OBS.
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 12 November 2020 13: 07 New
                -1
                Quote: Vadim237
                evidence against will

                physics (which YOU in your "bursa" "sang" lol )
                for at the time of event # 2, compartment 1 was already almost completely filled with water (+ whole documentation from there)
    2. businessv
      businessv 11 November 2020 21: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: d4rkmesa
      immediately retaliate against the Yokosuka naval base. And only then accept the apology.

      I agree! Well, and, as usual, to apologize for the hasty decision, "... again the new lieutenant got excited, but we will punish him for sure!" soldier
  • K-50
    K-50 11 November 2020 19: 08 New
    -6
    It is necessary to make it clear to Russia that the United States and NATO are not going to change its borders and political regime

    Then why should they start a war with dreams? belay
    Under the current "regime" it is possible to negotiate calmly and without war, but this is not enough, they have to rob the country in order to cover their trillions of debt, and otherwise they will not come out with the "green". request fellow
  • Van 16
    Van 16 11 November 2020 19: 11 New
    +6
    Serious article.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 12 November 2020 10: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: Van 16
      Serious article.

      Grotesquely one-sided, I would describe it that way.
      But it achieved its goal: it stirred up the swamp of everyday life, forcing us to look at our TODAY from a different angle ... at the frailty of the Pacific Fleet and the general forces of the Navy ...
      That there are no equivalents to the political and diplomatic methods of settling the "slippery" problems is both its strong and weak side. However, as well as the fact that the fleet is artificially cut off from the entire military structure of the country ... But this does not happen in real life.
      But.
  • Avior
    Avior 11 November 2020 19: 16 New
    +8
    And about the article as a whole, it is hard to believe that from the other side they will lead to a big war, they have something to lose
    On the other hand, the people who will make decisions in Russia also have something to lose.
    Therefore, I do not really believe in a nuclear war.
    Rather, there will be a series of limited conflicts, seemingly not connected, and not directly with the States, moreover, perhaps not even with Russia. To organize the blockade, it is enough to withdraw one side from the trade.
    Military operations on Russian territory will also be avoided as much as possible, so as not to put their own territory under attack.
    But conflicts at sea are another matter.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 29 New
      -2
      Quote: Avior
      it is hard to believe that from the other side they will lead to a big war, they have something to lose

      the United States simply has no other options for the game with a positive outcome other than "big badabum"
      and taking into account the frankly "acidic" internal political situation, then there are "meanings" "it is convenient to dispose of" not quite right citizens "(OWN)
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 19: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: Fizik M
        the United States simply has no other options for the game with a positive outcome other than "big badabum"


        If so, why besides nuclear weapons? It will end with badabum anyway.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 56 New
          -2
          Quote: Eye of the Crying
          YAO? It will end with badabum anyway.

          but he is different
          do not forget that in the 50s and until 1963. on the "ball" there was actually a nuclear war of "almost medium intensity"
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 20: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Fizik M
            but he is different


            I am interested, of course, in the "big badabum", without which "the United States will not have a game with a positive outcome." What is this "badabum", how many victims, where?

            Quote: Fizik M
            in the 50s and up to 1963. on the "ball" there was actually a nuclear war of "almost medium intensity"


            I didn't. The explosions did not go beyond the polygons, there were practically no casualties.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 11 November 2020 20: 05 New
              -2
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              What is this "badabum"

              war with the use of nuclear weapons at a level between "low and medium" - somewhere like that, on the "bulging naval eye"
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              how many victims, where?

              a lot, and this is one of the goals
              incl. I have
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              I didn't. The explosions did not go beyond the polygons

              I'm talking about the environmental consequences for the "ball"
              As for the victims, in the opinion of a number of puppeteers, there are "too many" "human carcasses" on the "ball", so that something and the victims will not restrain them (if they are not PURPOSE at all)
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 20: 10 New
                -1
                Quote: Fizik M
                how many victims, where?

                a lot, and this is one of the goals
                incl. I have


                Then I will repeat the question - if this is inevitable, why do we need something other than nuclear weapons?

                Quote: Fizik M
                I'm talking about the environmental consequences for the "ball"


                The environmental impact on the "ball" is negligible. More dirt was thrown out in Chernobyl.

                Quote: Fizik M
                according to a number of puppeteers, there are "too many" "human carcasses" on the "ball"


                I understand that you have a direct connection with the puppeteers.
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 11 November 2020 20: 13 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  if this is inevitable, why do you need anything other than nuclear weapons?

                  but because there are different options
                  throw all the knives out of the kitchen and buy an AX instead
                  and then live like this for a month

                  Threat Syria, too, nuclear weapons, "north wind"? Or are non-nuclear (and efficient) tools still needed? I'm not even talking about the fact that the effectiveness of nuclear weapons today in a number of cases is inferior to the WTO
                  1. The eye of the crying
                    The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 20: 28 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Fizik M
                    but because there are different options


                    You are saying that "the United States simply has no other options for the game with a positive outcome other than Big Badabum." "There is no other option," your words.

                    Quote: Fizik M
                    Syria is also nuclear weapons, "north wind"?


                    "North Wind" is a typical "small victorious war" for strengthening the government, and Syria in general, too. There was no need for them. But this is not about that - effective non-nuclear weapons, all these corvettes and anti-torpedoes, are needed just in order not to take on nuclear weapons. If the enemy is guaranteed to take up nuclear weapons (see above), why would they?
                    1. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 00 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Eye of the Crying
                      "big badabuma." "There are no other options," your words.

                      in this case, it's just a BIG WAR
                      without "total" use of nuclear weapons
                      Quote: Eye of the Crying
                      "North Wind" is a typical "small victorious war" for strengthening the government, and Syria in general, too. There was no need for them

                      was, and what else
                      in addition, the Americans will implement their strategy against us, FIRST of all, with non-nuclear tools, and they will not have (effective) ones themselves - they will obviously lose
                      1. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 21: 08 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        in this case, it's just a BIG WAR


                        If this is the definition of "big badabum", then we would like to be more precise. "Big" is what scale, Vietnamese? World War I? World War II? What about the use of nuclear weapons?

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        in this case, it's just a BIG WAR
                        without "total" use of nuclear weapons


                        Non-total use of nuclear weapons is a guaranteed escalation.

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        was, and what else


                        And which one?

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        The Americans will implement the strategy against us FIRST with non-nuclear tools, and if they do not have (effective) ones themselves, they will obviously lose


                        Once again, slowly: if their _only_ winning option is "THE BIG WAR", then it is simply impossible to resist them, they are bigger and stronger. And the best strategy is mutual reduction of nuclear weapons so that more people survive.
                      2. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 11 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Vietnamese? World War I?

                        "roughly between them"
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Non-total use of nuclear weapons is a guaranteed escalation.

                        no, for example, a "little nuclear war" in a separate theater of operations
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Once again, slowly: if their _only_ winning option is a "BIG WAR", then it is simply impossible to resist them, they are bigger and stronger

                        politics is not football
                        and there are many more options
                        incl. counteraction
                      3. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 21: 15 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Fizik M

                        politics is not football
                        and there are many more options


                        Sure. If you do not take for the truth that the enemy will be satisfied only with the "BIG WAR" using nuclear weapons. Because if you accept - there is only one way out, reduce nuclear weapons and build bomb shelters.
                      4. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 21 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        the enemy will be satisfied

                        US problem # 1 is China
                        with all the consequences (including us)
                      5. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 22: 18 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        US problem # 1 is China


                        Yes. But with China, there are plans for a long elbowing, not a "BIG WAR."

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        with all the consequences (including us)


                        And what follows from this for Russia?
                      6. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 47 New
                        0
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        But with China, a long nudge is planned

                        The USA is clearly losing this push
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        And what follows from this for Russia?

                        we will not stay aside, the question is in what form
                        either here, or we ourselves conduct an independent policy, or they make MEAT of us
                      7. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 23: 52 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        The USA is clearly losing this push


                        Who knows. It hasn't started yet.

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        either here or we ourselves conduct an independent policy


                        Do you even understand this phrase yourself?

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        or make MEAT of us


                        Who, how, why?
                      8. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 12 New
                        0
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Do you even understand this phrase yourself?

                        Yes
                        if in a nutshell and clearly - in the form of how dad in the early 90s almost banged the TV with a heavy object at the time of Kozyrev's speech there
                      9. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 00: 16 New
                        0
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        dad in the early 90s almost banged the TV with a heavy object at the time of Kozyrev's speech there


                        what
                      10. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 20 New
                        0
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        what

                        and the "popular reaction" is very accurate - to the point
                        a week ago, by the way, on the war with Japan, I just heard "in the top ten" conclusions from an old pensioner, hunter and fisherman (ex-paratrooper who was part of Czechoslovakia in 68)
                      11. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 00: 25 New
                        -2
                        I believe that an opinion that completely coincides with yours falls into the top ten.
                      12. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 39 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        I believe that an opinion that completely coincides with yours falls into the top ten.

                        Are you a fan of Kozyrev?
                        In contrast to this old fisherman, my classmate, a former officer of the RF Armed Forces, got into a dispute (a box of cognac) that within 10 years "no one will attack the Russian Federation" and "there will be no need to fight." Moreover, it was a REACTION to the FACTS I cited from a number of very shitty moments in our Armed Forces, with a "fig leaf" (or "pink glasses") from which there was "no war anyway"
                      13. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 00: 47 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        Are you a fan of Kozyrev?


                        No. Although (maybe, over the years) I do not remember any significant deeds behind him, good or bad.

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        a former officer of the RF Armed Forces got into a dispute (a box of cognac) that within 10 years "no one will attack the RF" and "will not have to fight"


                        A retired hunter and a former officer of the RF Armed Forces ... I don't even know who understands the situation better.
                      14. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 55 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        No. Although (maybe, over the years) I do not remember any significant deeds behind him, good or bad.

                        so refresh your memory;)
                        only remove heavy objects from under your hands :)
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        A retired hunter and a former officer of the RF Armed Forces ... I don't even know who understands the situation better.

                        retired hunter
                        with this ex-officer a different story:
                        the first exhibition in Tagil, he "ah ka zhahnula! how zhahnula"
                        the second classmate (civilian) sat next to the binoculars and the stopwatch, and then went to talk to the T-90 crew about what kind of FULL PE it was
                        those. the officer saw only the "outer side" ("how it gagged"), but INSIDE (EVERYTHING by + with an extremely low rate) "for some reason" looked "civilian"
                      15. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 00: 59 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        so refresh your memory;)


                        Remind.

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        but INSIDE (ALL by + with an extremely low rate) "for some reason" looked "civilian"


                        I believe the civilian was a development engineer. And the overwhelming majority of officers do not know the details of the "black boxes" they work with.
                      16. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 01: 05 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Remind.

                        the first thing that came across
                        https://general-ivanoff.livejournal.com/37508.html
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        I believe the civilian was a development engineer.

                        cooler
                        Since childhood, people are a "technoman" and have been professionally engaged (and are engaged in) domestic mechanical engineering (actually did a lot) - simply because they are a fan of technology
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        And the overwhelming majority of officers do not know the details of the "black boxes" they work with.

                        there the question is not in "details" but RELATIONSHIP to the CASE
                      17. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 01: 10 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        the first thing that came across


                        There is chatter (which you can stop reading after the "lobbyist for the surrender of Transnistria"). And in general, it is strange not to understand that Kozyrev did what Yeltsin said. And Yeltsin, beginning with the 1991 putsch, had no room for maneuver until the very end. No one could have done much better than him.

                        Quote: Fizik M
                        there the question is not in "details" but RELATIONSHIP to the CASE


                        This is yes. It is the duty of an officer to leave service by the hour.
                      18. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 01: 37 New
                        0
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Kozyrev did what Yeltsin said

                        Read Sulakshin's "Treason"
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 12 New
    -3
    Quote: Eye of the Crying
    Who, how, why?

    for example, the USA is extremely interesting against China
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 00: 50 New
    0
    You have not answered the most interesting questions - "how" and "why". Why does the United States need to make MEAT from Russia - it will cost at least a lot of blood, despite the fact that Russia cannot help China in anything - it no longer has anything that would interest China. And how will the United States make MEAT out of Russia? The blockade is definitely not enough for this.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 11 November 2020 22: 14 New
    -1
    Well, with today's progress and automation and mechanization, there are really a lot of people, and by reducing this number by 5-10 orders of magnitude, you can achieve a real utopia ala a golden billion where there will be enough work for everyone and the standard of living goes off scale. The problem is that every large country wants exactly the nation was dominant in this billion, while they forget that a person is essentially one species, and speaking the same language can be easily taught in 2 generations.
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 23: 54 New
      +7
      Quote: evgen1221
      by subtracting this number by 5-10 orders of magnitude


      Just for the record - if you "subtract this number by 10 orders of magnitude", there will be less than one person left on the planet.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 November 2020 13: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: Eye of the Crying
        Just for the record - if you "subtract this number by 10 orders of magnitude", there will be less than one person left on the planet.

        Two excavators and two thirds. © smile
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 14: 03 New
          +1
          0.8 digger.
  • Avior
    Avior 11 November 2020 19: 54 New
    +3
    They have financial, political and other opportunities.
    It is strange to assume that they will not use them.
    In reality, they have a problem not with implementation, but with making a decision on such actions.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 12 November 2020 00: 01 New
      +5
      Do not exaggerate. The US military is racking its brains on how to counter quickly
      growing superpower - China, while not losing sight of Russia's nuclear weapons, plus
      ambitions of third countries: Iran, S. Korea and others.
      And, in my opinion, they are in great confusion.
      Russia needs to focus on civil high-tech, computers, and electronics.
      And worry less about the absence of aircraft carriers and destroyers.
      Several hundred Yars will be covered - no one will poke their heads seriously.
      1. Avior
        Avior 12 November 2020 01: 00 New
        +6
        Compete with China?
        In principle, this advice can be given to any country in the world, it is correct.
        Only there is no advice on how to really implement this?
        China itself did not go into world politics until it created an economic base.
        C. Korea The states do not have a problem at all. Neither economically nor militarily. They won't strike first.
        China, with all its military ambitions, is far from the United States so far.
        China, for all its growth, cannot fulfill the functions of the States in the global economy for the foreseeable future.
        At the same time, it strongly depends on the world economy.
        The danger is that China has ambitions to realize its second largest economy in the world in the military sphere. And this is not so much a problem of the United States as of Russia - China is aiming for Russia's place in the military sphere, but it seems that not everyone in Russia understands this.
        I think the question is in the near future, when China will begin to seize arms markets from Russia.
        The States themselves already had such a problem in the form of the USSR, even in a more serious form - the USSR claimed the world socialist system. And China has no such ambitions. I think they will come to an agreement one way or another, they are both interested.
        Actually, if the coronavirus did not mix the cards with Trump, they would have already agreed - China was ready to change the trade balance with the United States. Surely they will return to the topic.
        1. Essex62
          Essex62 12 November 2020 15: 42 New
          -4
          What kind of Trump, where does Trump have to do with it, who is this Trump in general, to come to terms with someone globally? And what kind of coronavirus? Which DOF is seasonal? A world-wide horror story, a civil defense exercise with a thousand-percent fat that brewed this mess. (- Doctor that there are three bullets in it - it says covid - write covid). Masons will not negotiate with the Chinese, they will break everyone for themselves and keep them in check. They completed their task in 91m. They have no more enemy.
        2. Alien From
          Alien From 12 November 2020 23: 37 New
          +1
          As long as the world is dominated by the dollar, no one will hammer serious nuclear weapons. They are used to getting everything for money and an ordinary club.
      2. Incvizitor
        Incvizitor 13 November 2020 03: 13 New
        -1
        My opinion priorities
        1 Strategic Missile Forces
        2 missile defense / air defense
        3 Aviation
        4 Fleet
        5 Ground Forces
        1. tech3030
          tech3030 14 November 2020 09: 35 New
          0
          A developed economy is a priority! This is something we never had! The West has always been ahead of us. If we are ahead, much less what you wrote!
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 12 November 2020 00: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: Avior
      They have financial, political and other opportunities.
      It is strange to assume that they will not use them.
      In reality, they have a problem not with implementation, but with making a decision on such actions.


      While they are ...
      Imagine that futurists have calculated the discovery in pharmaceuticals of substances that realize all the possibilities of the fantastic film "The Area of ​​Darkness", within the next 15 years.
      This is a very real thing by the way.
      With the development of 6 technological order, the degree of development of pharmaceuticals will simply have a giant leap.
      Accordingly, all countries will be able to explode technologically and very strongly.
      The danger to further leadership in such a situation for America is only those countries that are:
      1. opponents (direct and potential) of the Anglo-Saxon model of governance and domination.
      2. possess nuclear weapons, with the potential to completely destroy the United States in the event of a nuclear and non-nuclear direct attack by the United States.

      There are only two such countries now.
      Yes, the opponents of the United States are many countries.
      Yes. several countries possess nuclear weapons.
      But the aggregate is given only to Russia and China.

      What's next for the US?
      Now, of course, Russia can be hammered with sanctions, blockades for absolutely any reason - Navalny will start wearing thongs - Putin is to blame, with his "newcomer", Tikhanovskaya "fecal embarrassment" at a meeting with Biden - again Putin's "repeater".
      The reason is absolutely irrelevant.
      It is important to plunge the country into an economic collapse, so that the budget is not replenished, that there is nothing to pay state employees, the army, and there is nothing to buy weapons. Plus, there is huge unemployment in the fuel and energy complex, mining and processing, agricultural regions. And the companies that serve them, directly or indirectly. Railroad, road transport.
      Whole cities like Surgut, Nizhnevartovsk, Nefteyugansk, Novy Urengoy, Khanty-Mansiysk, Vorkuta, Norilsk and many others will simply be left without funds with all residents.
      Without medicine, medicines throughout the country.
      No spare parts for machine tools, cars and planes and ships, pumps and turbines, servers and telephone base stations, without the usual Internet.
      Without potatoes, rice, and even grain - because the overwhelming amount of planting material is imported.
      No eggs and poultry meat, no cattle and pork - we buy all eggs for industrial broilers. And we also import seed material for the reproduction of cattle and pigs.
      But in such a situation, on a wave of hopelessness, you can get the opposite effect.
      A cornered beast with a nuclear weapon is unpredictable.
      And you can either get a civil war.
      The outcome of this civil war is unpredictable.
      It can break up into 5-6 independent countries.
      The most liberals can come to power who will lick the boots of any foreigner. regardless of any BLM.
      Who will hand over all the weapons themselves.
      But. there is also a variant with the seizure of power by some radicals who are capable of delivering an ultimatum. that the whole world is in dust.
      And time is running out.
      And the scientist pharmacists have been giving it 5 years before the industrial production of the "super substance" begins ..
      And what remains for the hegemon? Only act.

      Therefore, this is the tactic of creating chaos in the country and the pre-revolutionary situation by sanctions, but not yet completely driving the country into collapse. Having many Trident-2 missiles, and having received hypersonic strike forces in the near future, the United States can indeed destroy 6 operating SSBNs and 350 launchers of ICBMs and PGRKs.
      Our SSBNs will be destroyed guaranteed, no one doubts this, they do not have sufficient cover for the BS areas, and a 10-fold superiority in attacking nuclear submarines can guarantee the destruction of our SSBNs and full protection of their SSBNs.
      Accordingly, only 350 ICBM launchers remain.
      Even 10 Ohio-type SSBNs put forward to the borders of Russia are unlikely to be found and taken for escort due to the lack of the required number of nuclear submarines from Russia.
      Accordingly, they will be able to absolutely calmly shoot their ammunition load of almost 1000 warheads at targets in the reach zone using a flat trajectory (range 3-3,5 thousand kilometers).
      Yasny and Kozelsk and Svetly and Ozerny and Sosenki and Yoshkar-Ola and Nizhny and Novosibirsk and even Siberian are perfectly shot from the waters of the White Sea.
      And what remains uncovered with us? Solnechny Uzhur and Irkutsk? And they shoot with the same flat trajectory from the waters of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the Sea of ​​Japan.

      In both cases, the flight time will be from 6 to 9 minutes.
      In this time range, no retaliatory strike can be made.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 12 November 2020 01: 37 New
        +1
        "The development of pharmaceuticals is just going to have a giant leap." ////
        ---
        Rather, not pharmaceuticals, but genetic engineering.
        Pharmaceuticals is like slicing with an ax, and genetics is like working with a scalpel.
        The most significant breakthrough in recent decades was the decoding of the genome
        person. Everyone is fond of aircraft carriers, and the real revolution is in the micro and nanoworld.
      2. 3danimal
        3danimal 12 November 2020 09: 49 New
        -1
        In this time range, no retaliatory strike can be made.

        Ok, a dozen Yars will break through to the territory of the United States, so what? The death of millions of their citizens for what? They there sorely lack a dictator-adventurer in power for such a scenario.
        Now, of course, you can clog Russia with sanctions, blockades for absolutely any reason.

        This is a repetition of everything that the Soloviev-Skobeevs broadcast:
        we are saints, all lies.
        About Boeing, for example. I remember how Strelkov smiled indulgently, talking about the "birdfall" that had begun. And the news was kept on TV about another Ukrainian transport worker shot down by the "militias". And then they fell silent about it when it became known that these monkeys (with Slavic faces) shot down a civilian plane.
        The position of our authorities? - It's not us, here are a dozen ridiculous versions, etc. Instead of putting up a few switchmen and paying compensation (as they do in adult politics).
        How would you act on the EU side seeing this?
        About the South-East - this is quite transparent, Strelkov told many times how they arrived and began to seize police departments, etc. ("The office is firing," bastard smile ).
        1. opponents (direct and potential) of the Anglo-Saxon model of governance and domination.

        Lots of conspiracy request
        1. timokhin-aa
          12 November 2020 12: 52 New
          0
          Take an interest in the combination Girkin-Tendetnik senior-Tendetnik junior.
          Then ask the question - why Russia refused to help the DPR until the Donetsk people trampled on Girkin. They even met in Snezhnoye - the first column of vacationers and Girkin running to the Russian Federation.

          Be surprised if you dig deeper.
        2. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 12 November 2020 20: 32 New
          -2
          Quote: 3danimal
          In this time range, no retaliatory strike can be made.

          Ok, a dozen Yars will break through to the territory of the United States, so what? The death of millions of their citizens for what? They there sorely lack a dictator-adventurer in power for such a scenario.

          Why do you think that 10 Yars will break through?
          First of all.
          Only 2-3 Yars / Topol from the PGRK can be located outside the basing point. The rest always stand either near the hangars, or leaning out of the hangar. Those. in fact, it may be that all Yars
          stand at their locations. Accordingly, the bases will be attacked and we don't really count on them either.
          Even though at that moment we have 10 PGRKs outside the bases. They will definitely be monitored, and there will definitely be a blow to them, even in motion. After all, the speed of movement along the route is minimal up to 20 km / hour. Trident reprogramming time is 9-12 minutes, flight time is 6-9 minutes, launching one Trident with 4 warheads per one off-base Yars is not a problem. The warhead is abundant (don't forget about 1000). Accordingly, put 4 warheads at a distance of 10 km - there will be nothing left.
          And even if 10 Yars take off, they will be waiting for the missile defense system in Alaska (40 GBI). US and NATO fleets equipped with SM-3 PKO missiles (about 500 on alert), Aegis Asher (there are few of them). And THAADs (a couple of hundred) in the United States. those. there will be 30-40 interceptors for each missile that breaks through

          Quote: 3danimal

          Lots of conspiracy request

          Yes Yes...
          And then I have not read history, I myself have never traveled abroad and I do not know that the Russians will always be worse for the Anglo-Saxons than the Negroes and the Chinese. Indians and everyone else.
          Anyone, but the Slavs for them are those who ... "They would like that there were no Slavs at all" ...
          I read about it, I saw it ...
          1. 3danimal
            3danimal 13 November 2020 16: 35 New
            0
            They will definitely be monitored, and there will definitely be a blow to them, even in motion.

            Surveillance? One of the recent articles has already described how problematic it is from a satellite (by ships) .. And sending a Global Hawk or E-3 deep into the Russian Federation is very problematic.
            And Tridents are not designed to attack moving objects at all.
            there will be 30-40 interceptor missiles for every missile that breaks through

            The risk is too great, in the absence of benefits (for the pragmatist, NOT the fanatic). When a radical party with a permanent leader at the head seizes power in the United States and builds imperial plans in the spirit of the 18-19 centuries, you can start to worry smile
            I read about it, I saw it ...

            I have no doubt about what I have read. I also came across the "works" of Dugin, Fedorov (GCD) and other conspiracy theories ..
            What did you see? I have friends and acquaintances living in a number of countries who have left the Russian Federation. And there are no problems with their Slavism. They see what kind of person and specialist you are (in developed societies).
      3. Vale-90
        Vale-90 12 November 2020 10: 19 New
        +1
        And there is. Signal 7 min. If in 15 minutes the rate is 30 minutes before the start of the BDR.
        If on 300 m from the release, then about an hour. If unexpected, for example at 30 minutes in "Increased" -55 minutes.

        It was earlier.
        http://samlib.ru/editors/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/snhsdv.shtml
      4. Avior
        Avior 12 November 2020 15: 58 New
        +3
        They won't be cornered
        They will try to slowly plunge into internal problems
        You can't solve them with a nuclear missile
  • Lex_is
    Lex_is 11 November 2020 20: 57 New
    0
    the United States simply has no other options for the game with a positive outcome other than "big badabum"

    With all due respect - there is, and they are consistently playing them back, but the option with a nuclear strike is also being considered.
  • Ryusey
    Ryusey 11 November 2020 20: 26 New
    0
    I can't believe it, I don't want to, it will be necessary and there will be opportunities for your faith no one will look ...
  • timokhin-aa
    11 November 2020 20: 40 New
    +3
    And about the article as a whole, it is hard to believe that from the other side they will lead to a big war, they have something to lose


    And if they believe that they will not lose anything? And if they realize that without war they will lose even more?
    People are wrong.
    1. Avior
      Avior 11 November 2020 21: 10 New
      +5
      Sometimes they make mistakes.
      But to build a strategy on the fact that the enemy will globally make mistakes is strange.
      A war, if we take on faith the theory that wars are in blood, they can easily start at any time without any risk of a nuclear conflict - there is Iran, for example.
      As for a limited nuclear conflict, one cannot help but see that the States have maximally limited its likelihood by reducing non-strategic nuclear weapons as much as possible, and even more, they had to convert a small number of strategic charges, overcoming the resistance of Congress, into tactical SLBMs, since they simply did not have the opportunity guaranteed to deliver a single retaliatory nuclear strike, which they directly wrote about in their new nuclear strategy - they simply have nothing to deliver it with. Tomahawks with nuclear warheads, let me remind you, sawed off Obama.
      The British simply do not have non-strategic weapons, the French have very limited ones.
      From this it is in no way possible to draw a conclusion about preparations for a limited nuclear conflict, the conclusion suggests itself strictly the opposite
      1. SVD68
        SVD68 12 November 2020 08: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: Avior
        But to build a strategy on the fact that the enemy will globally make mistakes is strange.

        If this is the worst option for us, then it must be taken into account and actions must be planned for such a case.
        1. Avior
          Avior 12 November 2020 09: 05 New
          +1
          Take into account, but not make the basis of the strategy line the expectation that the enemy will make a decision that is unfavorable for himself.
    2. Knell wardenheart
      Knell wardenheart 12 November 2020 00: 21 New
      +6
      Usually wars are started not according to the principle "we will not lose anything" but according to the principle "what we gain". What will NATO gain from an attack on the Russian Federation and a hypothetical victory in such a war? Not individual (not the most important) NATO members such as Poland, not okolonatovskie allies such as Japan - but those who will "take out" the main burden of expenses economically and industrially. The USA, Germany, France will only get hemorrhoids from such a conflict. For the European NATO, the raw material chains with the Russian Federation will be severed, myriads of refugees will rush to them, much more disgusting and organized than the modern "Arab invasion" - and many of them will have a "tooth" and experience, including sabotage activities. The price of labor will fall, unemployment will increase, without cheap gas the price of euro. the products will lose even more to the Asian and American ones. Fallout could affect European agricultural producers - many go broke, prices rise, markets shrink.
      Part of the East of the Russian Federation can quite quickly occupy China, which will strengthen its position. Poland will finally get a chance to arrange its own "intermarium" and will become too strong and pretentious to meet the interests of the United States and the center. Europe. Japan will expand its zone of influence at the expense of Kuril-Sakhalin-Kamchatka (+ -) and will again naturally return to the form of a threat to US interests in the Pacific Ocean (apart from China).
      Due to the loss (albeit temporary) of control over resource deposits in the Russian Federation, prices for a number of resources will sharply rise, and competition in Africa will increase. The damaged economy in the Russian Federation will have to be restored and protected by someone in the conditions of the political system that followed the military collapse.
      In the event of war and military defeat, huge stocks of weapons in the Russian Federation will flood the black markets of the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Asia and, probably, Africa. As well as technologies and specialists from the Russian Federation. Casus beli the use of nuclear weapons in the phase of a surprise attack will happen - so the same China in its military strategy will proceed from a sudden first strike (its own), which, coupled with the power of its fleet and capabilities, and the fact that many Russians. technologies will get to the Chinese - in fact, after the fall of the Russian Federation, the West forces the West to start a war with China.
      A number of non-aligned states, such as India, will attend to increasing their nuclear arsenals and possibly forming regional defense blocs. Shadow cooperation between rogue and neutral countries will increase.
      A number of states will attend to the creation of their own nuclear weapons and, even worse, will turn their attention to other means of sabotage attacks in the event of aggression - biological, chemical, etc.

      The list could be continued - but the essence, I think, is clear, a larger war with the Russian Federation will open the door to a more dangerous world where Western capitalism will be in less favorable conditions and, moreover, will again be split as before BB1.
    3. 3danimal
      3danimal 12 November 2020 10: 19 New
      0
      And if they believe that they will not lose anything?

      How? Such decisions are not made by one person and they are elected, not dictator-adventurers with personality deformation.
      People are wrong.

      One person with absolute power. They have everything balanced in this regard.
      And if they realize that without war they will lose even more?

      What exactly? Our 15 million barrels per day? They can mine more. And risk everything for a 10% increase in income?
      I repeat: where is this adventurer dictator, who will decide on this?
    4. 3danimal
      3danimal 12 November 2020 10: 41 New
      -2
      We have a great example: the Union, suffering economic collapse, was energetically crediting. Like the Russian Federation in the 90s. And they sent humanitarian aid, and Bush's legs.
      Who does this to the side that is going to "wreak havoc"?
      And who, sober and sane, will arrange and maintain chaos in a country with one of the largest nuclear arsenals? To have this "good" on the black market?
      The Americans rightly feared such a scenario and tried not to let the former opponent fall.
      1. timokhin-aa
        12 November 2020 14: 06 New
        +2
        It was a slightly different era.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 12 November 2020 17: 08 New
          -1
          Think it over.
          If you wanted to drop and wreak havoc - you had to then - you just had to push.
          In fact, the United States does not want us to pursue a policy in the spirit of the 19th and early 20th centuries and engage in territorial augmentation. Which are already quite a few and which are poorly developed.
          Is it such an unbearable condition? You can have access (but not in your personal) the whole world - technology, goods. Mutually beneficial cooperation. And you can conquer territories, having lost much of this ... To become richer ?? Or for the sake of rating pro-imperial-minded citizens?
          The main capital today is people and ideas. The number of peasants in the fields is not the highest indicator of economic power (as it was before), let's look at Japan.
    5. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 13 November 2020 03: 20 New
      0
      That side of kapitalyugi they do not have a homeland, they don’t really have a country, everything will be bad for them, they will be dumped into the same China, with money and business or somewhere else, they will not be lost. A world in dust in any case is meaningless to them.
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 11 November 2020 19: 24 New
    0
    ... the aircraft carrier came out of repair on time,

    A new one was built, with a large displacement and atomic thrust, with a large air wing, because Kuzya showed his "combat capability" during the Syrian campaign ...
    1. Ryusey
      Ryusey 11 November 2020 20: 27 New
      +3
      And what are his problems, and vadik, explain, you are a specialist, and not a balabolka?
  • Eug
    Eug 11 November 2020 19: 25 New
    +3
    Asymmetric response - aircraft missiles or naval calibers according to the conventional Fukushima or other
    A nuclear power plant ... maybe they are building for a similar Akkuyu? But in reality, the fleet, like no other service of the Armed Forces, depends on the level of development of various branches of science and industry, and the "underdevelopment" of any branch immediately affects the complex of combat properties of ships. In addition, the fleet has a lot of "invisible" features to non-specialists, and this makes it very vulnerable to unscrupulous persons who determine its development. How to eliminate them (not only in the navy) is a question not only for the navy, but for the whole country.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Eug
      Asymmetric response - aircraft missiles or naval calibers according to the conventional Fukushima or other

      u Are you sure that the "puppeteers" will object to this option?
      personally, I strongly assume that they will not - because it is PROFITABLE for them (they do not care for the carcasses of the Japs)
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 11 November 2020 20: 13 New
      +1
      How to eliminate them (not only in the navy) is a question not only for the navy, but for the whole country

      - this is the level of development of productive forces and productive relations and upbringing of children (AFTER 20 YEARS OF WORK AND OWNER OF THE COUNTRY) if there is no upbringing - we sit and until the next generation is quiet.
      - Are we bringing up the next generation correctly now?
      1. timokhin-aa
        11 November 2020 20: 33 New
        +1
        Have you tried to sit down at the computer with normal pressure?
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 11 November 2020 20: 41 New
          +1
          if only you were right ... and on horseback .... and the rest does not touch me.
          everything was determined by Ivanov - according to his decisions, Serdyukov destroyed the army and the navy. your suffering is not to raise the fleet.

          war is the continuation of politics and so on and so on. and the fleet is a continuation of what? you see your own, others see something else ..
          but in the Kremlin they see their own ...
          5-7 years ago about the salary of teachers (after the spirit-lifting decrees of 2012) ::::: if it was necessary to raise their income, it should be so

          AND THE FLEET IS THE SAME COVENANT, ETERNAL .. on 3 roles
  • Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 11 November 2020 19: 31 New
    +2
    I have only one question - why does the author consider only a mirror response to a military provocation possible? Yes, the Pacific Fleet is much weaker than the Japanese, but no one has canceled aviation and missiles (not strategic), and it is quite possible for the same Japanese to smack oh how painful it is. I suspect that the same holds back the Turks from provocations.
    Comparing the last years of Gorbachev with the present is also inappropriate - people will not go out into the streets because of a slap in the face of the state, it is pointless. And under Gorbachev they did not come from the humiliation of the state, but from the poverty into which this state drove its own population.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      I have only one question - why does the author consider only a mirror response to a military provocation possible?

      the right question - and it is in such matters that we are strong and skillful (there are a lot of examples, for example, the rescue of Erdogan), BUT - the initiative will not be ours, and they will hit our most vulnerable places
      + in their doctrinal documents at the beginning of the 2000s, the DISINFORMATION and DESORINETATION of us was prescribed (including during real hostilities)
    2. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 20: 06 New
      +4
      I have only one question - why does the author consider only a mirror response to a military provocation possible?


      I do not think.

      but aviation and missiles (not strategic) have not yet been canceled, and it is quite possible for the same Japanese to smack oh how painful it is. I suspect that the same holds back the Turks from provocations.


      I do not argue, but this is exactly what works exactly until the moment when the benefits from the conflict, even not necessarily won, do not outweigh the losses from losses, pardon the tufology.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 11 November 2020 19: 40 New
    -3
    the arguments of the respected Alexander Timokhin are very deep and true, we need modern submarines, Airplanes, Missiles and other weapons, I support ... except for his idea of ​​building Aircraft Carriers and super destroyers
  • maktub
    maktub 11 November 2020 19: 47 New
    +6
    To me, as an outside observer and a person far from the fleet and the realities of the modern Russian Federation, everything seems harmonious and logical. If this is not misinformation about misinformation, then it attracts serious analytics
    Respect for the author
  • Revolver
    Revolver 11 November 2020 19: 48 New
    +3
    Quote: Adolf Hitler
    War is a natural human condition.

    Quote: From the fascist Westdeutcher Beobachter newspaper
    ... None of us would dream of extolling war as such.

    Quote: Samuel Yakovlevich Marshak

    "No, war, as such,
    Not easy and not sweet! "-
    The front line says
    From a fascist leaflet.

    And once, in the days of old,
    The Fuhrer swore that the war,
    Like a native element
    The true Germans need it.

    Why is the unknown
    Journalist in the front line
    Responds unflattering
    About the war as such?

    Because in the East
    In a formidable battle
    The Germans gave a cruel lesson
    Stalingrad as such.

    Because from the sky
    Aircraft howl is heard
    And flies for a ton ton
    Berlin, as such.

    So, in the fateful moment
    The Fuhrer made out dimly,
    That the war, as such,
    Forever he lost!

    1943
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 11 November 2020 20: 18 New
      0
      Interestingly, who canceled Marshak, and for what?
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 11 November 2020 19: 49 New
    +4
    Quote: Sergey Valov
    people won't go to the streets now

    the problem is that we have not realized (including at the top) that the "street" will (and already have) experienced "puppeteers" (and these are not "public liberal politicians" at all)
  • Igor Semenov
    Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 19: 56 New
    +3
    Greetings, dear Mr. Timokhin! hi You have now asked questions that I have been asking myself for years. And I don’t find answers to them, because I don’t believe in the reality of your version of their solution. The population will not hear you (us)
    1. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 20: 04 New
      +6
      I also welcome you. He will hear sooner or later. Well, on the other hand, there are no more options. You need to shake. (C)
      1. anzar
        anzar 12 November 2020 00: 29 New
        -1
        Well, on the other hand, there are no more options.

        Absolutely wrong! Your good analysis then resulted in "naval lobbying" with far-fetched arguments and arbitrary assumptions. So here's to you absolutely real other option)) The most real ....))))
        Since the fleet is the "weakest" link, which will be "indicatively hit", then the simplest thing is to write off the ancient Varshavyankas (and many ships) to waste)) Then what will Japan do? No fleet, no "boosters" for "revolution")) What do you think of?
        It is also strange that, starting with the statement that apart from the military, nothing good is being done in Russia, then we went on to the call to pump more money into the fleet, without a guarantee for its "resistance to provocations")) You are not accidentally one of those who, ( as you said) "biography begins with adulthood"?)) laughing
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 12 November 2020 11: 22 New
          +3
          Quote: anzar
          Since the fleet is the "weakest" link on which it will be "indicatively hit", then the simplest thing is to write off the ancient Varshavyanka (and other ships) to waste

          what are we going to "write off" (instead of DOING AS NEEDED) NEXT? Far East? Caucasus?
          1. anzar
            anzar 12 November 2020 15: 26 New
            -1
            what we will "write off" (instead of DOING AS NEEDED)

            What you want, that is, everything that you cannot "DO AS IT IS NECESSARY". And then"hit and humiliate"author's comment)), and then"there will be a revolution"(oh, how scary for ...) laughing
            My "suggestion" refers only to the drawn arguments of the author.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 12 November 2020 18: 49 New
              +1
              Quote: anzar
              ah how awesome for.

              personally I AM SCARY
              for I understand the consequences TOO well
    2. Ryusey
      Ryusey 11 November 2020 20: 29 New
      +3
      Then he will hear the roar of air raid sirens, but it will be too late ...
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 55 New
        -7
        What anxiety from where it will appear from the air - finish the fairy tales by telling the likelihood that a large meteorite will arrive a thousand times more than someone will attack Russia.
    3. businessv
      businessv 11 November 2020 21: 16 New
      +4
      Quote: Igor Semenov
      The population will not hear you (us)

      Don't be pessimistic, colleague! You, I, many have heard and will tell others! Alexander is right, you need to shake! smile
      1. Igor Semenov
        Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 22: 38 New
        +5
        I added both you and Mr. Timokhin. Of course you have to shake it. At least that's how we will be honest with ourselves. But to be honest, I do not know what and how to shake the population to wake up. They are like in a hypnotic dream, sleep with their eyes open and feel nothing!
  • Revolver
    Revolver 11 November 2020 19: 56 New
    +2
    The social contract will simply be violated. The people agreed to tighten their belts in exchange for victories. If in exchange for a tightened belt comes defeat, then the authorities are finished.
    Let's look at Armenia. Although it is unlikely that anyone present here will have a heart bursting from pain, even if Pashinyan and his company are impaled on the air.
    1. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 20: 03 New
      +9
      Armenia is a very good example, by the way. In terms of the consequences of a lost war.
      1. Avior
        Avior 11 November 2020 20: 46 New
        +7
        Do you really think that if not for Pashinyan there would have been a different result of the war?
        Pashinyan is only a couple of years old, and the situation is a natural result of those failures in the economy and military development of Armenia over the past 30 years, which led to the failure.
        Azerbaijan excelled economically, was motivated, and what happened is a natural result of the entire post-Soviet development of Armenia.
        Sooner or later, Azerbaijan would somehow realize its multiple superiority in the economy, miracles do not happen.
        The Armenians needed to come to an agreement with Azerbaijan under security guarantees, for example, from Russia,
        having achieved favorable conditions, while Armenia had military superiority, and there would be no humiliating defeat, and the terms of the treaty for Armenia would be much better. But it didn't work out.
        Aliyev hasn’t made such a mistake yet, didn’t press Karabakh.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: Avior
          if not for Pashinyan, would there have been a different result of the war?

          chances were
          where everything goes to smart people was clear
          but Pashinyan was in "hypersonic mriyas" (instead of the elementary but extremely necessary - the same UAVs, etc.)
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 59 New
            -9
            Azerbaijan has been intensively engaged in its army for more than 20 years, and Pashinyan would have appeared in two years with the right policy and taking up the defense - Isn't it funny yourself?
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 33 New
              +3
              Quote: Vadim237
              and Pashinyan in two years, with the right policy and defense, the trenches would appear - Isn't it funny yourself?

              no
              it's not about "taking Baku" but at least not so shamefully draining (I'm not talking about those Armenians who fought in Artsakh, but about their leadership in Yerevan) as in real life:
              I tried yesterday to organize an operation with three battalions. We have four howitzers in total. If we are not provided with artillery, how will you support the offensive or cut off his (enemy's) tails? Impossible and pointless. Here is the real state of affairs ... we have two "hailstones" for the whole army today, a dozen howitzers on which we have neither shells nor shit.
              Even if tomorrow we will be given a hundred "grads", we do not have specialists with whom we can complete the calculations and launch these machines into battle. In recent days, artillery fights / loses, everyone is killed by drones, shells, "tornadoes" and missiles. We have no ammunition.
              1. Avior
                Avior 12 November 2020 00: 40 New
                +4
                What hooked you in this situation?
                They knocked out heavy weapons with drones, there is no other, it is clear that the equipment was manned with crews based on the available number, and not counting on the mythical hundred vehicles, but in any case, they were not prepared in reserve even before Pashinyan, otherwise they would have been for two years everything had passed, if they had cooked before Pashinyan, they would have been
                Armenia is much inferior to Azerbaijan in terms of financial capabilities, they borrowed a lot from Russia, so the equipment and reserves are limited.
                In addition, Armenia is limited by the framework, since it cannot openly enter the war, for it it is not only Karabakh, but also the collapse of Armenia itself and the final death of its economy. Pashinyan got a far from prosperous country, but with exorbitant and not confirmed by the real state of affairs ambitions.
                So you will lose naturally.
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 12 November 2020 01: 49 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Avior
                  What hooked you in this situation?

                  even several dozen "Orlans" (as means of intelligence and TsU arte) could dramatically increase the capabilities of the Armenians ...
                  but they carried the gypsy sound at parades ...
                  Quote: Avior
                  Armenia is far behind Azerbaijan in terms of financial capabilities

                  no one disputes this
                  Quote: Avior
                  So you will lose naturally.

                  this is not a "loss", this is a LOAD and CAPITULATION (NON-TALKED)
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 12 November 2020 08: 43 New
                    +1
                    I understand that this is the biggest miscalculation of the Armenians, but this is not Pashinyan's personal miscalculation.
                    The military should have thought about this both under Pashinyan and before him, both in Armenia and in Karabakh.
                    There is a clear miscalculation in preparing for hostilities, but Pashinyan is a prime minister, not a military one. Prior to that, the significance of the UAV in modern warfare was known, but still, neither in Syria, nor in Libya, it did not lead to such an outright defeat of Turkey's opponents.
                    1. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 12 November 2020 11: 05 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Avior
                      but this is not Pashinyan's personal miscalculation.

                      Taking into account what kind of "circus with horses" the Azeri military had, how much they grew in very much the personal merit of Aliyev, against which Pashinyan is just a clown
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 12 November 2020 11: 18 New
                        +3
                        I don't mind that Aliyev has shown himself to be a reasonable leader.
                        But there are other factors to consider.
                        Aliyev has been leading Azerbaijan for 17 years, and Pashinyan for only two years.
                        Aliyev's rule had high oil prices, he was quite free in financing the army - he could pay the military, selecting the best, and buy weapons of his choice.
                        Pashinyan came to power when Armenia was in the midst of an economic crisis, he did not have the opportunities of Aliyev.
                        As for the Armenian army, there are no fewer questions to Pashinyan's predecessors than to him.
                        Maybe more.
                      2. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 12 November 2020 11: 35 New
                        0
                        Quote: Avior
                        Aliyev has been leading Azerbaijan for 17 years, and Pashinyan for only two years.
                        Aliyev's rule was hit by high oil prices

                        the fact that Aliyev had many more opportunities - of course
                        as well as the fact that the "starting point" was MUCH lower than that of Armenia
                        but he PREPARED (including personally), and Pashinyan - how would it be softer ...
                        but 2 years is not "only" 2 years, but WHOLE 2 years
                        the same "Orlans" in commercial quantities, radar, ECO could not only be massively bought, but also had time to master well
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 12 November 2020 12: 11 New
                        +1
                        Buy? Rather borrow.
                        And Pashinyan did not buy Iskanders instead of UAVs.
                        The overwhelming majority of armaments of Armenia were received before Pashinyan.
            2. victor50
              victor50 13 November 2020 22: 31 New
              0
              Quote: Avior
              it is clear that the equipment was manned with crews based on the available number, and not counting on the mythical one hundred cars, but in any case, they were not prepared in reserve even before Pashinyan, otherwise they would have been, two years would have passed if they had prepared before Pashinyan they would be

              Living in a hostile environment, for some reason they allowed themselves complacent relaxation. And there is an example of Israel. There, after all, the technicians are also not for every citizen, but everyone serves and prepares to fight.
              1. Avior
                Avior 14 November 2020 00: 54 New
                0
                They were protected, the Russian base and the Treaty actually with Russia.
                Preparing to fight and ready-made crews for all types of weapons with a large stock is not the same thing.
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 12 November 2020 02: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: Avior
      Armenians needed to come to an agreement with Azerbaijan under security guarantees, for example, Russia

      It was somehow not very compatible with the cries of "Russians out of Armenia".
      1. Avior
        Avior 12 November 2020 08: 45 New
        0
        This should have been done long before Pashinyan came to power, you see, he would not have come.
        And Lavrov's share of guilt in this is also, in my opinion, it was clear that in the war for Karabakh, Russia would not fight against Azerbaijan.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 12 November 2020 02: 37 New
    +5
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Armenia is a very good example, by the way. In terms of the consequences of a lost war.

    Well, or Argentina. The ruling junta was demolished shortly after they merged with Britain in the Falklands in 1982, although the junta had stood firm before that. The case is certainly old, but nevertheless. And, by the way, with a naval component. Pride submarine sinking of the Argentine navy, cruiser General Belgrano, was the same moral shock for the nation.
    1. Avior
      Avior 12 November 2020 08: 53 New
      -3
      The junta was not very strong if it needed a "small victorious war" against England.
      As for the pride of the fleet, it is not clear what was proud of - an ancient cruiser built before the Second World War?
  • Valdaev
    Valdaev 13 November 2020 14: 47 New
    0
    To the author of the article

    There is a better example - the Argentine junta, which flew off after the Falklands War it started and lost. This case is much more like a possible scenario for the St. Petersburg gang than anything else you have written here.
  • Igor Semenov
    Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 20: 26 New
    0
    I think no one’s heart will break, but Pashinyan’s execution will not solve any problems. For the Armenians, now emotions prevail over reason. We will see how it goes on
    1. Avior
      Avior 11 November 2020 20: 52 New
      +3
      It seems that the Armenians are in shock, they are so accustomed to superiority over the Azerbaijanis that they cannot realize what happened, everything happened too quickly - a month or two, and everything that they had lived for 30 years was canceled out.
      1. frog
        frog 11 November 2020 22: 08 New
        +2
        Was it? Superiority? Precisely the superiority of Armenia over Azerbaijan?
        1. Igor Semenov
          Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 23: 36 New
          +1
          It is important that the Armenians believed that they were doing everything right
          1. frog
            frog 12 November 2020 00: 14 New
            +3
            So they vaaasche did not think about this topic. There were the ways of self-determination of the great Armenian people, the division of sponsorship money, the division of what else could be divided, and, well, joyful trips to get money to the nasty invaders. Or do you seriously think that they won the first match?
        2. Avior
          Avior 12 November 2020 00: 43 New
          +2
          No, it was gone.
          But the Armenians clearly thought differently.
          Before that, there was military superiority.
          It was necessary to use and negotiate on their own terms.
          Did not use
          1. frog
            frog 13 November 2020 08: 55 New
            0
            Yes, a lot of things were needed and could be ... And not only the Armenians repeat "Didn't use" wink
    2. victor50
      victor50 13 November 2020 22: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Igor Semenov
      We will see how it goes on

      I think that the messengers are already running around the countries of the West - France, the USA, etc., in order to gain favor, to get some kind of hope for protection. Most likely due to refusal to cooperate with the Russian Federation.
  • Arkon
    Arkon 11 November 2020 20: 01 New
    +7
    The author is right that the scenario of a "limited nuclear war" is now viewed in the West as real. And the author is wrong, in my opinion, that he considers the development of the fleet (air force, air defense, and whatever) a panacea for such a development of events.
    The scenario can be real and successful in any development of the Russian army and navy. These are not related things. The enemy is so self-confident and cynical that he will strike simply in the hope that we "dare not answer." Whatever weapon we have.
    I must say that we ourselves, in part, gave him a reason to think so, when we did not respond to the attack of the Tomahawks in Syria, although we promised. They remembered it. I'm sure.

    So that's it. One day we will have to respond to the enemy for provocations in multiples. Not "asymmetrically", not "in other directions", but directly, in the forehead, inflicting multiples more damage. Otherwise, they will hit anyway. With any development of the fleet and any composition of our weapons.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 20: 07 New
      +4
      Quote: Arkon
      And the author is wrong, in my opinion, that he considers the development of the fleet (air force, air defense, and whatever) a panacea for such a development of events.

      You are correct that this is not a panacea.
      Just a range of options, flexibility of response, the ability to control the situation in this case is MUCH more. In the end, the possibility of INTERCEPTING THE INITIATIVE (taking into account the fact that it is initially behind the enemy and he will hit the most vulnerable ...)
      1. Arkon
        Arkon 11 November 2020 20: 09 New
        +2
        Sure. But the psychological barrier is the most difficult.
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash 11 November 2020 20: 05 New
    +2
    It is well stated, you can agree with almost everything. Unambiguously - with the fact that the United States is working on the elimination of Russia, since only she (later, a little bit and China) can (still can) destroy the United States. Nothing personal, there is a threat to the United States - it must be eliminated. The United States is seriously working on this, there is no doubt, just as there is no doubt that some Russian statesmen are aware of this. Convulsions in the form of Poseidon, Zircon, etc. from this understanding, apparently.
    But the likelihood that the Americans will reach such a readiness when they will be able to deliver a devastating strike on all nuclear components of Russia with acceptable losses for themselves, in my opinion, is extremely high, if not indisputable. Advanced weapons emerge on the basis of advanced research in fundamental and applied sciences, the scope of development work, advanced material and technical base, a high level of education and a sufficient influx of personnel. The United States and the Western world as a whole (that there is no doubt about the Western world as a whole together with the United States?) Is much more and better. And the gap is growing and there are no other prospects in sight. Conclusion - Russia loses in the economy, the further, the more. Accordingly, the gap in armaments, first of all, in quantity, is growing, and someday - and probably soon - this gap will reach the level of Russia's helplessness in front of the US / Western world. It's unavoidable. And no amount of attention to the state of the Navy will help, the opponents are economically much stronger.
    Will the US deliver a disarming blow? In the conditions of active confrontation between Russia and the United States / the Western world, it is quite possible as it is now. In conditions of peaceful coexistence, that is, in fact, to recognize the role of the United States and to open your mouth only with their permission, they may not do it. But, most likely, they will force them to disarm and try to tear them apart, like the USSR, they have experience, desire too. The third option is to lie under China. But China has its own requests, including for Russian territory, but the weak will have to pay. Well, if it snaps, China will throw Russia. Just like the United States if they try to play against China. It might be the best option though.
    1. Igor Semenov
      Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 20: 35 New
      +1
      In one of his articles, Mr. Timokhin described Russia as "the fifth wheel in the cart of the West." I am sure that they would have endured the fifth wheel, wrinkling. Their problem (and, accordingly, ours) is that the fifth wheel is spinning in the other direction.
      1. Avior
        Avior 12 November 2020 01: 08 New
        +5
        The wheel of the USSR was spinning in the other direction.
        Moreover, with a different speed and a different diameter.
        And the wheel of the Russian Federation is the same capitalist as that of the West; this is one of the manifestations of the internal problems of capitalism.
  • Essex62
    Essex62 11 November 2020 20: 07 New
    -8
    Here you need to call psychiatrists. This is a cocktail! Obvious and indisputable, about hurray for patriotism and holes in the defense and buckets of slops. The author seriously holds for the AGGRESSIVE idiots the entire population of the Russian Federation who need a war? And it will buzz as soon as it starts to lose it, having lost confidence in the authorities. Rave. The government has long lost confidence in everyone, except for the fat-living backbones and managers
    Well, and the pearl about the war as a conscious need in general with the smell of Mein Kampf.
    The USSR is a country of drunks, in general, into any gate.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 20: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Essex62
      The author seriously keeps for the AGGRESSIVE the entire population of the Russian Federation who need a war?

      a statement of historical fact, and "genetic memory" - we SURVIVED THE WAR
      and this, thank God, people remember
      1. Igor Semenov
        Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 20: 37 New
        +5
        Dear Fizik M, all the more or less significant peoples survived fighting
      2. Essex62
        Essex62 12 November 2020 07: 36 New
        +2
        The natural state of man is peace, the head-sick predators of the type of Adolf the possessed are striving for war
    2. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 20: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Essex62
      Well, and a pearl about war as a conscious need in general with a taint Mein Kampf


      The quote is not?
    3. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 20: 38 New
      0
      The government has long lost confidence in everyone, except for the fat-living backbones and managers


      How did you famously merge the managers with the backbones laughing
      Do not confuse warm with soft?
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 12 November 2020 07: 20 New
        -1
        Not on your nelly. The first are robbing, the second are the technical perpetrators of this robbery. All their activities are focused on extracting margin. Even this Naglosak word sounds disgusting - management.
        1. timokhin-aa
          12 November 2020 15: 35 New
          +2
          It is necessary to luster them, and give the factories to the workers, right?
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 12 November 2020 18: 22 New
            +2
            Why chandeliers. There the hooks are not reliable. (Joke)
            1. timokhin-aa
              12 November 2020 19: 59 New
              -1
              The lesson of the USSR did not go for the future?
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 12 November 2020 20: 31 New
                +2
                How would you answer more correctly so that you do not feel drawn to the ban? No ... it doesn't work. I will refrain. Then, somehow. I think the time will come and the situation will mature.
                By the title of the article. Everything is clear individually. A blow from the sea, I agree, is not very pleasant, there is nothing to reflect. At the time to panic or shake. True, they don't care about your screams, they saw.
                And that's why the revolution is death. If it is socialist, yes to the bourgeoisie, the country does not.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  12 November 2020 21: 29 New
                  -2
                  Because for the revolution, W76-2, 5 kT each, "about Hiroshima" will immediately fly to your head.

                  And also for the future - no need to repeat YOUR OWN mistakes. Even strangers are not necessary, even more so.
                  1. Essex62
                    Essex62 13 November 2020 06: 35 New
                    0
                    So after all, it will fly to them, to their habitats. And therefore they will not start when. They value their skins too much, those who can give the launch order. These are not lousy Trump, Biden and Congress, they are sixes. There a small handful of others are driving.
                    The mistake is the backsliders and wild capitalism with its disgusting property and social inequality. And the country will correct this mistake over time. Then our fleet will be revived. The colonial administration will not do this.
                    Calling the USSR a mistake, you confirmed me in the opinion that, along with obscenely bright thoughts, crazy ones visit you. You don't have to answer. Discus is meaningless.
    4. businessv
      businessv 11 November 2020 21: 03 New
      0
      Quote: Essex62
      The government has long lost confidence in everyone, except for the fat-living backbones and managers

      So what? Going out on strike? You misunderstood what the author wanted to say.
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 12 November 2020 07: 26 New
        -1
        I understood well what the author wanted to say and said. And the strike should have started yesterday. Not just anyone, the working class has been eliminated in the Russian Federation along with enterprises and entire industries.
        1. businessv
          businessv 12 November 2020 20: 33 New
          +4
          Quote: Essex62
          Not just anyone, the working class has been eliminated in the Russian Federation along with enterprises and entire industries.

          I agree about the industries and the working class, but remember my post during the elections to the Duma next year. Just in bulk there will be those who will spit on "For the Truth" and praise "United Russia" and on this basis you will see what the bulk of them will do - their leader will just go through the next educational program and replenish his budget just for those things that we are discussing with you. The author is right - there is no longer such a country in the world, which has such innumerable riches and opportunities for the growth of the well-being of its citizens, but which, throughout its entire existence, produces only bureaucrats - embezzlers!
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 13 November 2020 07: 27 New
            +2
            Sorry, but the author is frankly drowning for capitalism. Why is the word revolution everyone associates with bulk and Maidan? Abolition of the right to private property and the prohibition of personal enrichment. Tough, organized, without Makhnovists and carts. Locally, just as they did it. But we must come to this, it must be the idea of ​​all honest people concerned about the fate of the Motherland and its people. First of all, in the Office and the Armed Forces.
            1. businessv
              businessv 13 November 2020 20: 33 New
              +2
              Quote: Essex62
              Why is the word revolution everyone associates with bulk and Maidan?
              With this man. not revolution is associated, but venality! And there are a lot of them, as was the case in almost all the former republics, as a rule from the governing ones. gutting in Square, Saakashvili in Georgia, Tikhanovskaya in Belarus. Do people who come to the rallies go there for ideological reasons? That's just it, that no! Therefore, this is not a revolution, but a coup, moreover, under external leadership. Private property cannot be abolished in any way, except for illegally privatized profitable enterprises.
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 14 November 2020 08: 57 New
                0
                This is a personal overkill, but a private one for the means of production is very much possible and necessary.
                The coup 93 was carried out under the external leadership, and since the end of the 80s, the agent of these forces on the Kremlin stool was preparing. With 91 of these forces, the real communists were cleared out, in all organs of power, the Office, the army. Then these forces wrote the country a constitution with the supremacy of the bourgeois order and put the colonial administration on our necks. Following a very active and purposeful pursuit of the policy of genocide of the Soviet people, supporting the backward and their henchmen, educating young people with bourgeois, wolfish instincts. "Step on your neighbor's head and move on"
    5. Valdaev
      Valdaev 13 November 2020 14: 51 New
      0
      Bravo, Alexander-62! Best comment on the article!
    6. victor50
      victor50 13 November 2020 22: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Essex62
      Here you need to call psychiatrists. This is a cocktail!

      So what? don't know where to call? The sooner you start treatment, the easier it will be. Recovery, of course, does not threaten. This is not the case. I do not like such attacks, but frank Hamlo does not deserve another.
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 14 November 2020 09: 18 New
        0
        In your opinion, is everything normal for a person who wrote about the USSR as a country of continuous drunks and a mistake in history? Where is the rudeness on my part? And, you understand us, the masters of life, you do not think otherwise than boors. Break off. Words are just words, class struggle and more serious things mean.
        1. victor50
          victor50 14 November 2020 10: 16 New
          0
          You did not understand anything. They explained their, to put it mildly, rude statements by ideological disagreement. The author and I have a different attitude towards socialism-capitalism. Here I have no disagreements with you, not the slightest. But the author is a patriot, he is sincerely rooting for this country. Isn't that enough! But even if you disagree with him completely, can't you just listen, try to understand? Why are you sure that your point of view on socialism is the only correct one? The author, perhaps, does not share it for only one reason - due to his age, he lived only during the collapse of the USSR, and, unlike us, did not see quite good 70s. But the essence of his article is not to support or reject socialism or capitalism, but to make you think and start doing something to save Russia. Do - do not chat!
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 14 November 2020 17: 34 New
            0
            Didn't read my answers carefully. I agree with Comrade / Mr. (underline the necessary) Timokhin on the whole range of defense problems touched upon by a thousand percent. But I will not allow any patriot to humiliate my country and its citizens. All the more so for a patriot with a bourgeois platform.
            There can be only one view of socialism, its structure. Read JV Stalin, he explained and justified everything in detail.
            I will repeat myself once again for you personally, these will not do anything, shaking them is useless. They are part of the world against which we have held a steel wall for many years. They have no idea what the enemy is behind the now defunct Berlin Wall. They are partners for them, and for partners they are vassals. Children over the hill, bills, nidvizuha. These are twisted as they want. And one of the requirements is the elimination of Russians in Russia. Especially those who remember how a correct society and state should be arranged.
            1. victor50
              victor50 14 November 2020 18: 20 New
              0
              Quote: Essex62
              I will repeat myself once again for you personally, these will not do anything, shaking them is useless. They are part of the world against which we have held a steel wall for many years. They have no idea what the enemy is behind the now defunct Berlin Wall.

              And what does A. Timokhin have to do with all this, and everything that he has outlined? And how did he humiliate the country? Which he offers to protect, save? Note - by no means, not her government and the top. Only by using their interests and fears in order to protect Russia.
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 16 November 2020 08: 26 New
                0
                So you did not read the article carefully. As a refrain, all Soviet citizens are drunks and manic aggressive idiots who dream of letting off steam while fighting, in my reply the USSR was called a mistake. This and this alone, I do not accept. On the "technical side" I am his ally. Why are we pouring water here! The author has already understood everything, and you are acting as a lawyer. He does not need your support, he is on the opposite political pole. Bourgeois.
  • StarTroopers
    StarTroopers 11 November 2020 20: 07 New
    -5
    Fierce nonsense. A lot of water and departure from the topic. What kind of "steam release" from society, and so on. Nonsense. Who has an autumn aggravation?
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 20: 09 New
      -2
      Quote: StarTroopers
      Some kind of "steam release" from society, etc.

      for example, the one that "blackmen" now arrange on the street (and in offices wink ) in the USA
      1. StarTroopers
        StarTroopers 11 November 2020 20: 22 New
        -1
        What nonsense? And here the United States, the United States have other moral and ethical values, life is not considered a very important value, everyone has weapons, a dubious society, blacks cannot be called blacks, etc. taboo. And we get individuals who have guns and knock down everyone, plus the availability of drugs. Here is an explanation for you, not a "valve of society." You do not confuse warm with soft. What a release of steam, this is complete nonsense. How can you show films where the GG thumps as an example? This is pulling an owl onto a globe, not Earth, but Jupiter!
  • parusnik
    parusnik 11 November 2020 20: 12 New
    +6
    The hour X will come ... our elite, having received compensation, will surrender the whole country ... Like Pashinyan Karabakh .. smile
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 November 2020 23: 02 New
      -7
      What is this elite and from whom will it receive vacation pay and, most importantly, who will give them what?
    2. Lexus
      Lexus 12 November 2020 01: 55 New
      +1
      Go somewhere a mortgage with an open date is gathering dust.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 11 November 2020 20: 19 New
    +8
    Everything is very interesting, except for the author's attempt to philosophize on the causes of the war.
    Many people do not know, but war is one of the needs of a person living in an organized society.
    In fact, the question is much more complicated, and philosophy is clearly not the author's strong point, especially given his Americanophobia.
    1. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 20: 36 New
      +8
      I had to state the whole theory of intraspecific aggression?

      Americanophobia.


      phobia is the wrong word in this case. And even if this were so, then it does not contradict "skill in philosophy". In the real world, at least.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 11 November 2020 20: 39 New
        +5
        I had to state the whole theory of intraspecific aggression?
        Which of the four main ones will you describe?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 11 November 2020 20: 42 New
          +7
          And even if this were so, it does not contradict "skill in philosophy".
          This has a serious impact, since the logic of the presentation is adjusted to the result dictated by the phobia.
        2. timokhin-aa
          11 November 2020 20: 44 New
          +6
          Obviously, none. And that was clear from my previous comment.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 11 November 2020 20: 48 New
            11
            Do not be offended by Alexander, but it obviously follows from your philosophizing that you are not familiar with them, which spoiled your excellent article. In the fight against turbopatriots and hamsters, I am always on your side, therefore I criticize the presence of weak points in your material.
      2. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 20: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        I had to state the whole theory of intraspecific aggression?


        Aggression within the human species? Yes, it would be interesting to hear the theory of intraspecific aggression applied to countries.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Eye of the Crying
          Yes, it would be interesting to hear the theory of intraspecific aggression applied to countries.

          it was most interesting for Gumilyov laughing
          for all its ambiguity
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 11 November 2020 21: 23 New
            0
            Quote: Fizik M
            the most interesting was Gumilyov laughing


            Gumilyov is a writer by hand. He did not create any theories, only wrote fiction.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 14 November 2020 19: 06 New
            0
            Gumilyov deigned to write nonsense ...
  • StarTroopers
    StarTroopers 11 November 2020 20: 27 New
    +2
    The author, I advise you not to go into history and philosophy with sociology. Do not disgrace yourself. Such a pun, especially in the part about society, and about its mythical need for war.
  • 123456789
    123456789 11 November 2020 20: 39 New
    0
    Further, internal unrest, even small ones, some chaos, an economic downturn - and here they are, the conditions for an unrequited ... nuclear strike against.

    USA. It's all there already, so it's about time soldier
  • Capybara67
    Capybara67 11 November 2020 20: 53 New
    0
    A parallel with 1904-1905 can really be drawn. On the other hand, maintaining the current power in Russia for the West may be beneficial: Russia cannot yet pose a serious threat, but it can become an excuse for the US military presence in Europe, just as the presence of the DPRK gives them an excuse to have bases in the Pacific and South Korea
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: Capybara67
      maintaining the current power in Russia may be beneficial for the West

      given the current geopolitical situation (especially the Chinese factor), they desperately need a LOT more "loyal" leadership in the Russian Federation
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 November 2020 23: 04 New
      -7
      It is not relevant in modern reality, since new weapons have appeared in all directions.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 12 November 2020 14: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: Vadim237
        new weapons appeared in all directions

        these are YOU ducks in the sofa or in YOUR training manual wassat did the owners write? lol
  • businessv
    businessv 11 November 2020 21: 02 New
    +4
    Time is running out and the risks are getting higher and higher.
    Alexander, thanks for the interesting analytical article! Many will make them think for sure. hi
  • S. Viktorovich
    S. Viktorovich 11 November 2020 21: 11 New
    +1
    There are serious problems in the Navy. They must be solved without hysteria, incl. by transforming the power structures that have shown their helplessness.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 25 New
      +6
      Quote: S. Viktorovich
      by transforming the power structures that have shown their helplessness.

      Are you offering them "voluntary seppuku"?
  • BAI
    BAI 11 November 2020 21: 16 New
    -4
    1. By and large, the Russian Federation does not need a large fleet. Russia is not going to fight at sea. The need for transport ships to support a land operation, as in Syria, is an exception. Therefore, naval battles, the loss of the fleet are not significant. The main combat operations will be on land. The fleet only needs strategic submarines. Therefore, strictly speaking, the fleet is in the corral (and will be).

    2.
    If in exchange for a tightened belt comes defeat, then the authorities are finished.
    It is obvious. Society always unites against those who have lost the war, and unites around those who won it. By the way, we now see this in the example of Azerbaijan and Armenia.

    3. When the author was writing the article, he naturally did not know what Putin said today (a meeting with the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, heads of federal departments and defense industry enterprises, dedicated to equipping the Armed Forces with new control systems.

    11 November 2020 14:10):
    First, we need to seriously work on increasing the survivability of control systems. We are well aware of this, we are aware of this and we know that a lot depends on the survivability of these systems, their ability to maintain a working condition in combat conditions, and this must be ensured even in the event of a nuclear strike.

    As I was told, the creation of a new command post with almost absolute protection, including strategic nuclear forces, is at the final stage. Its safety margin will be extremely high. Let's talk about this today too.

    Second, the effectiveness of the main components of strategic nuclear command and control systems should be constantly checked at command post exercises and other events, including the now regular surprise checks of the triad's combat readiness.

    Third, it is necessary to continue the development of promising control systems for strategic nuclear forces.

    Those. focus on the nuclear command and control system. Thank God, the author is not familiar with the nuclear weapons system of the RF Armed Forces, so we will not discuss his fantasies about the destruction of nuclear weapons. The Internet is not the place to shine with erudition on this topic. Obviously, Putin did not come up with the speech he gave. It was written by experts on the basis of very serious initial data and the author's concept does not fit here.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 21: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: BAI
      the author is not familiar with the nuclear weapons system of the RF Armed Forces, therefore, we will not discuss his fantasies about the destruction of nuclear weapons.

      yes, in my opinion his script is WRONG
      but there are OTHER scenarios
      Quote: BAI
      It was written by experts on the basis of very serious initial data.

      about "Status-6" they wrote?
      https://topwar.ru/155207-statusnyj-tupik.html
      Quote: BAI
      Therefore, naval battles, the loss of the fleet are not significant.

      those. YOU have not heard anything about Tsushima (or YOUR training manual has not written about it)
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 November 2020 23: 07 New
        -7
        "YOU haven't heard anything about Tsushima." She was more than 100 years ago, her example is already nikatit at all.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 43 New
          -1
          Quote: Vadim237
          "YOU haven't heard anything about Tsushima." She was more than 100 years ago, her example is already nikatit at all.

          what, this is an example of "eyes (and ass) pricks" to YOU?
          1. Shadow041
            Shadow041 12 November 2020 09: 01 New
            +3
            Russia once lost to Japan, and beat her insolently with slippers in 1938 and 1939 and 1945 ... So the 3: 1 score was not in Japan's favor.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 12 November 2020 11: 13 New
              -6
              Quote: Shadow041
              Russia once lost to Japan, and beat her insolently with slippers in 1938 and 1939 and 1945 ... So the 3: 1 score was not in Japan's favor.

              lol
              how funny you are, by God ...
              laughing
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 12 November 2020 15: 01 New
              0
              Quote: Shadow041
              Russia once lost to Japan, and beat her in the brazen face with slippers in 1938 and in 1939 and in 1945 ..

              It is better not to remember 1938 - it was not for nothing that Blucher then received the VMN as a result of the "victory".
              And 1939 is best characterized by Voroshilov's resolution on Zhukov's telegram about the victory:
              Tov. Stalin
              I am sending the report just received to Comrade Zhukov and Kalugin. As expected, there were no divisions in the encirclement, the enemy either managed to withdraw the main forces, or rather, there were no large forces in this area for a long time, and a specially trained garrison was sitting, which is now completely destroyed.
              Voroshilov.
    2. timokhin-aa
      12 November 2020 12: 43 New
      +3
      1. By and large, the Russian Federation does not need a large fleet. Russia is not going to fight at sea.


      But opponents of Russia are going to beat her from the sea. Such is the nuance.
  • Crabong
    Crabong 11 November 2020 21: 21 New
    +5
    Our entire fleet in total is 1,5 times less than the Japanese ... All this says.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 22: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: Krabong
      Our entire fleet is 1,5 times less than the Japanese fleet.

      everything is much worse
      1. Crabong
        Crabong 12 November 2020 15: 47 New
        -1
        Do you think the combat qualities of our ships are inferior to the "average" qualities of NATO ships (overhead & under)?
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 12 November 2020 18: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Krabong
          Do you think the combat qualities of our ships are inferior to the "average" qualities of NATO ships (overhead & under)?

          in general, yes
          в separate positions (SCRC for example) surpass
  • Dimon Krasnodar
    Dimon Krasnodar 11 November 2020 21: 22 New
    -9
    I wonder if, instead of wiping off, they zhahnut on Ekosuka and even the bases of the Japanese Navy. And there is something to Zhahnut and it is not necessary to use nuclear weapons. If I were the Japanese, I would not be engaged in such nonsense with respect to Russia, especially since they have a huge amount of fuel and lubricants on the coast with millions of barrels of fuel, what if the Russians hit the fuel and lubricants warehouses?
    The author writes garbage, complete and here you don't even have to be a gag, just turn on the guys' brains ...
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 11 November 2020 21: 28 New
      +8
      and if, instead of wiping off, they zhahnut on Ekosuke and even the bases of the Japanese Navy.


      How did they go around the Turkish bases after the downed Su?
      Or how did they zhahnuli in Azerbaijan after the downed Mi?
      1. Dimon Krasnodar
        Dimon Krasnodar 11 November 2020 21: 57 New
        -9
        Zhahnuli, dear comrade, and how zhahnuli. 2 conflicts were resolved forcibly. Or are you unable to see and appreciate it?
        And there is something to zhahnut in Japan, air-launched missiles x-101, x-22 and on pl (grenades and calibers). And therefore, there are many more options for Russia than for Japan, and the enforcement of peace is very obvious.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 11 November 2020 22: 23 New
          +2
          Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
          on pl (grenades

          Come on, tell me about "Pomegranate" lol
          I promise not to laugh loudly and it hurts not to beat laughing
          1. Dimon Krasnodar
            Dimon Krasnodar 11 November 2020 22: 41 New
            -5
            C-10 Pomegranate, it's not funny already .... What about the Expert?
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 30 New
              +3
              Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
              And the Connoisseur?

              Monsieur, I am not an "expert", but his OPERATOR angry
              so pyashi ISTCHO lol
              1. Dimon Krasnodar
                Dimon Krasnodar 13 November 2020 22: 00 New
                -3
                You are a fan, that's who you are
                So many comments ....
                Tell me why do you need this? ChSV?
                I don't even analyze them, maybe I will agree with something, but "I" appears in the comments, moderate your ardor. Better to comment less on the case, or learn from the Professor how to wisely crush show-off.
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 13 November 2020 22: 58 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
                  You

                  bunny, you are a ponterer here, or rather a RUNNER lol
                  Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
                  I don't even analyze them

                  "analyze" - not YOURS, YOUR - maximum analyzes lol
                  Shl, so, will you have fun about the "Pomegranate" further, I laugh loudly and will not commit atrocities laughing
                  1. Dimon Krasnodar
                    Dimon Krasnodar 13 November 2020 23: 06 New
                    -4
                    I gave you a plus sign.
                    In general, comrade, look around in the world there is still a positive, normal communication, respect, and just decency.
                    Why don't you respect people?
                    Even if you're right on the technical side, this can be explained normally, not redneck.
                    Laugh, atrocities ..... This vocabulary is in the red for you, you yourself do not understand this, right?
                    1. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 13 November 2020 23: 56 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
                      Even if you're right on the technical side, this can be explained normally, not redneck.

                      Well, ask normally - there will be a normal answer (in accordance with the regime of nature.)
            2. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 12 November 2020 21: 26 New
              +3
              Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
              C-10 Pomegranate, it's not funny already .... What about the Expert?



              Quote:
              1989 the beginning of the year - according to the Soviet-American agreements, ammunition with nuclear warheads is not used in the armaments of the fleets of both countries (with the exception of strategic forces - SLBMs) ​​- accordingly, 3M-10 missiles from all carriers were deposited.
              - 2012 - it is likely that a certain number of 3M-10 missiles are in storage at the Russian Navy bases. Until now, there was no information about the removal of missiles from armament and their disposal.
              - 2016 - 3M-10 missiles were transferred for disposal from the storage bases of the Northern Fleet. 40 missiles from the base in Zaozersk and from the base in Severomorsk - 20. missiles were transferred without warheads
              1. Dimon Krasnodar
                Dimon Krasnodar 13 November 2020 21: 47 New
                -4
                That is, there is no certainty that they are all destroyed?))
                Just in case, there is a stock of missiles in the storehouse and you can shoot them from the modernized installation, because 3m14 is the same, but with new brains
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 13 November 2020 23: 03 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
                  That is, there is no certainty that they are all destroyed?))

                  the tender for their disposal was lying on the purchases of gov in the year 2013
                  NOT ALL
                  Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
                  you can shoot them from a modernized installation, because 3m14 is the same, but with new brains

                  fool
                  BOY, DO NOT SHOOT SHOOT, IT HURTS
              2. Fizik M
                Fizik M 13 November 2020 23: 02 New
                +2
                Quote: SovAr238A
                1989 the beginning of the year - according to the Soviet-American agreements, ammunition with nuclear warheads is not used in the armaments of the Fleets of both countries (with the exception of strategic forces - SLBMs) ​​- respectively

                and now a bit realities
                the Americans conducted loading exercises (and the entire accompanying set of measures) twice a year (at the Pacific Fleet and AF) until about the beginning of the 2000s exactly.
                With us .... in short, when I unloaded it at my place, they did not bother with satellite flights ("windows").
                Whoever wanted - saw everything. I suspect that this was demonstratively done (and not only unloading, but also loading).
                The resolving ability of satellites to distinguish "STE most" from a similar in color PMR-2 is enough
        2. Lex_is
          Lex_is 11 November 2020 22: 24 New
          +5
          Zhahnuli, dear comrade, and how zhahnuli. 2 conflicts were resolved forcibly.

          Allowed, who argues with that?

          For example:
          The Russian and Turkish Defense Ministries will sign a special agreement on the establishment of a joint monitoring center on November 10.


          Or so:
          Turkish military shot down two Syrian Su-24 aircraft over Idlib. The pilots ejected. In addition, Syrian air defense installations were destroyed, which shot down a Turkish attack drone. The Syrian S-300 system in the Hama province and two Bukas were destroyed.

          This is March 2020. if anyone does not know.

          Only this resolution of the conflict is somehow not happy.

          Tell us in more detail how exactly we zhahali?
          Maybe I missed something?
          Maybe it's not right?
          1. Dimon Krasnodar
            Dimon Krasnodar 11 November 2020 22: 36 New
            -8
            The most interesting thing is that they zhahnuli not some super duper weapon that has no analogues, but a word.
            It reached everyone, conflicts were resolved poorly.
            Well, behind the word there was already something real, there were options for the car.
            Therefore, take a broader look at the questions))
            And the fact that you write that the air defense was destroyed is written with a pitchfork on the water, it's really funny from such statements.
            For Idlib, ours gave it true, who answered this in Turkey or not? They just swallowed it.
            1. Lex_is
              Lex_is 11 November 2020 22: 52 New
              +4
              For Idlib, ours gave it true, who answered this in Turkey or not? They just swallowed it.

              Tell us more about this, preferably with reference to authoritative sources and not to the voices in your head.

              For example:
              TASS, March 1. Syrian authorities have confirmed that Turkish forces shot down two Syrian Air Force warplanes in Idlib province on Sunday. This was reported by the Syrian agency SANA, citing a statement from a spokesman for the country's defense ministry.
              1. Dimon Krasnodar
                Dimon Krasnodar 11 November 2020 23: 09 New
                -5
                You know, probably ours should not have meddled in Syria?
                Always a bunch of dissatisfied people will stick out and let's show with a clever air that there is no success, not seeing the obvious facts of a cool and well-thought-out company. Of course, there are shoals in implementation and planning, but not such that someone with a clever look would puff out and criticize unreasonably a mostly successful military operation with a limited contingent of troops.

                Watch the video on Idlib at your leisure
                https://m.lenta.ru/news/2020/10/26/idlib/amp/
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 42 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
                  You know, probably ours should not have meddled in Syria?

                  no need
                  it was just a very successful campaign (with a number of very unpleasant "jambs" such as the knocked out strategic resource of the BTA)
                2. Lex_is
                  Lex_is 12 November 2020 03: 20 New
                  +3
                  Watch the video on Idlib at your leisure

                  And where is the blow to the servicemen and military bases of Turkey?
                  1. Dimon Krasnodar
                    Dimon Krasnodar 13 November 2020 21: 52 New
                    -4
                    On YouTube dial
                    And in general that I must teach you you know everything for sure. I'm tired of being clever already))
                    Such a button accordion was stretched here in the comments)))
                    Well the author)))) ... I take off my hat hi
                    So you need to be able to throw it on the fan !!!
                3. Crabong
                  Crabong 12 November 2020 15: 22 New
                  0
                  Not not necessary, but vital. You, if you cannot analyze the obvious things, sit upright and drink beer ...
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 11 November 2020 23: 08 New
          -7
          The Japanese navy has only Harpoons and its own anti-ship missiles with a range of up to 400 kilometers. That's all they have.
          1. Dimon Krasnodar
            Dimon Krasnodar 11 November 2020 23: 15 New
            -6
            So I write that the Japanese Navy does not solve anything. Well, the Warsaw woman will be drowned, ours will comb them with long-range aviation and calibers for this, but this will be more painful for them, but if someone decides to make a sortie to Kamchatka, then there is already World 3 without variks.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 40 New
              0
              Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
              if someone decides to make a sortie to Kamchatka, then there is already World 3 without variks.

              in the late 90s (against the background of power outages and air defense savings) in Kamchatka, when the air defense surveyors were turned on, "unknown targets" were repeatedly detected, immediately "diving" into the mountain defile from detection ...
              1. timokhin-aa
                12 November 2020 12: 40 New
                +4
                up to 50 incidents per year with foreign aircraft were in the 90s.
          2. Fizik M
            Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            The Japanese navy has only Harpoons and its own anti-ship missiles with a range of up to 400 kilometers. That's all they have.

            This is more than enough for the Pacific Fleet's "relics" + torpedoes
      2. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 11 November 2020 22: 37 New
        -3
        Quote: Lex_is
        How did they go around the Turkish bases after the downed Su?

        For the sake of fairness, but they zhahnuli on the Turkish special in a couple of months (then our Defense Ministry apologized).
        1. Lex_is
          Lex_is 11 November 2020 22: 43 New
          0
          They beat them on their specials and proxies and later, it's a little different.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 22: 22 New
      -2
      Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
      And there is something to Zhahnut and it is not necessary to use nuclear weapons.

      "puppeteers" are very satisfied
      Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
      I would be in the place of the Japanese with such nonsense in relation to Russia

      "Washington Regional Committee" carcasses of Japs are of interest because
  • al252ex
    al252ex 11 November 2020 21: 34 New
    0
    The author puts the cart in front of the horse from the very beginning. One savage hits another in the head, not because he is a savage, but because it is very convenient to fumble in the pockets of the one lying down. Any war has financial benefits. The use of nuclear weapons is not very beneficial to one side in the current conditions .Tell me what the USA lost after 14 years. We stopped buying GMO seeds from them, we stopped selling them rocket engines or titanium. Where did we cross their path so that they are ready to cover our fields and factories with radioactive ash. We ourselves voluntarily give them everything and we also export the money earned here. Now, if we stop doing this, which suddenly happened in 1917. Then they have to follow our goods themselves, which was also already a hundred years ago. So for now we can calmly cf. .sya in the comments and shower each other with products of life.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 11 November 2020 21: 50 New
      +3
      We ourselves voluntarily give them everything and also export the money earned here to them.

      Take an interest in the tense negotiations on the 2012-2013 Arctic trail, after which our Arctic brigades rushed to create, deploy Arctic bases and build ice-class patrols, and the United States sharply forced a coup in Ukraine and rushed to build up a grouping in Europe.
    2. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 22: 20 New
      +4
      Where we crossed their path so that they are ready to cover our fields and factories with radioactive ash


      In China.
    3. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 12 November 2020 13: 16 New
      0
      Quote: al252ex
      The author puts the cart in front of the horse from the very beginning. One savage hits another in the head, not because he is a savage, but because it is very convenient to fumble in his pockets. Any war has financial benefits.


      This is not enough.
      When there is a chance to secure yourself 100% guaranteed leadership in all areas where you look and rule the world without competitors in the next 200-300 years, then you can go for temporary financial losses, realizing that future profits will be abundant.

      The simplest example.
      A team of builders of wooden houses 50 years ago.
      Tools: hand saws and axes and hammers, hand planer and hand drills. ...
      Penny profit costs are normal.
      Long, laborious.

      The team of builders of wooden houses - now.
      Compressors, pneumatic hammers,
      Electric circular saws, crosscutters, sabers, planers, wrenches / screwdrivers, electric drills / perforators, grinders of 3 types, angle grinders, jigsaws.
      The costs are huge, the profits are huge.
      Fast and not labor intensive at all.


      Do you understand such a comparison?
      Why do you sometimes need to lose a lot of money on a tool that will not only pay for itself many times over, but will also give an advantage over all other competitors for a very long time.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 11 November 2020 21: 48 New
    +6
    ... so that the population fervently believes in our invincibility, and could be "proud of the country", and then ... 

    I totally agree. Not so long ago I myself discussed with colleagues on the topic of the Russian Navy, so I heard enough of this ...
    However, blockade or not blockade is an open question.

    But if the blockade?
    Just a blockade, without any fighting ... What then will happen to the Russian economy? What will happen to the social sector ...?
    Considering how helpless the national industry is in a number of critical industries (herbicides, pesticides, medicines, etc.), then there will be no need for war. It’s just a blockade of seaports and an end to the purchase of energy resources by the European Union.
    Whom then will we throw ICBMs? (Question to fans of nuclear weapons)
    Even the USSR did not have absolutely everything, so it was necessary to have close trade relations, even with capitalist (considered hostile) countries. But all critical industries were domestic. Therefore, "leaving the USSR" simply by a trade blockade is a utopia. And blocking ports with such a powerful Soviet fleet was unrealistic.
    Now you don't need to fight. Germany plans to completely abandon internal combustion engines by 2030. Diesel engines are already banned. Alarm bell. Soon Europe won't need Russian oil.
    1. timokhin-aa
      11 November 2020 22: 20 New
      +6
      The blockade is a serious threat in fact, but there is a nuance - it is a 100% casus belli, and we can escalate anywhere and in any way.
      It stops them for now.

      Otherwise they would have introduced it long ago.
      1. Igor Semenov
        Igor Semenov 11 November 2020 22: 34 New
        +2
        Yes, EMNIP blockade is a sign of aggression recognized by international law.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 12 November 2020 13: 18 New
          +2
          Quote: Igor Semenov
          Yes, EMNIP blockade is a sign of aggression recognized by international law.


          The blockade introduced by the decision of the UN (or another body that will replace the UN) will not be an act of aggression.
          1. Igor Semenov
            Igor Semenov 12 November 2020 20: 45 New
            0
            Is it okay that Russia is a permanent member of the UN Security Council with a veto right?
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 12 November 2020 21: 33 New
              +1
              Quote: Igor Semenov
              Is it okay that Russia is a permanent member of the UN Security Council with a veto right?


              Nothing at all.


              Is it okay that there are already attempts to remove the veto right even for permanent members of the Security Council?
              And that the camarilla began at all levels about this, even the daddy of all Romans spoke out ...
              Is it okay that there are attempts to reformat the UN into another organization, in which they do not want to see Russia in the role that it is now?


              They will really want and reformat ... Or they will cancel the UN and create a new one, but they will invite us there at the level of Lesotho ...
              Their vast majority.

              If Trump had stayed for one more term, then in a couple of years, so it’s definitely happened, but what will happen with Biden is still unclear. Or, in a couple of years we will be kicked out of the UN, or a little later ...
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 11 November 2020 22: 56 New
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        ... and we can escalate wherever we want.

        This requires two components: the iron will of the ruler and the practical possibilities for this escalation ...
        “We are the civilized world, we have decided not to have trade relations with a country where human rights are violated” - as a standard option for Western propaganda. And in response, we will start bombarding Japan or Norway with calibers ... Something does not add up.
        After all, the blockade can be (at least at the initial stage) purely financial and commercial, without connecting the Navy. But this alone will be enough to start unrest and a crisis of power ...
        1. timokhin-aa
          12 November 2020 12: 38 New
          +1
          Well, the rise in grain prices led to the Arab Spring. Russia simply cannot disappear from world markets - the West will have to block the supply of goods to third countries too. To the same Egypt. And this will be completely different.

          They value not an iron will, but potentials. We have almost no fleet, but the potential for escalation is quite there.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 12 November 2020 13: 21 New
            +2
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Well, the rise in grain prices led to the Arab Spring. Russia simply cannot disappear from world markets - the West will have to block the supply of goods to third countries too. To the same Egypt. And this will be completely different.

            They value not an iron will, but potentials. We have almost no fleet, but the potential for escalation is quite there.


            Can.
            By simply forbidding all companies and financial institutions to work where the Russian is the beneficiary. On pain of the same sanctions.
            And the same Egypt will switch to another grain supplier - Ukraine will give something, Canada will give something, the USA will give something.
            And so absolutely in all areas.

            There is no industry in the world in which deliveries from the Russian Federation are really a matter of life and death for the buyer.
            1. timokhin-aa
              12 November 2020 13: 55 New
              0
              Well, it really turned out wrong - it already happened. The product will certainly not disappear. But it will rise in price.
              And the difference in price for many will be unaffordable.
              1. Igor Semenov
                Igor Semenov 12 November 2020 19: 33 New
                0
                It happened with Egypt because the Russian Federation quite suddenly closed the export of grain. I don't remember all the details anymore. But this decision of the Russian Federation really added problems to the Mubarak regime.
  • Pamir
    Pamir 11 November 2020 22: 13 New
    +2
    We still have a problem that most of the governments of the Russian Federation do not want to realize the important role of the Navy in the country's defense stability. Emperor Alexander 3 said "Russia has two hands, two allies, an army and a navy." So the USSR, the Navy had two shock arms. " Submarines and MPA, which, in their turn, were well covered by the covering forces. "Now this is not. In general, RosOboronka has almost no commissions from the representatives of the Navy to conclude contracts. They were simply wiped out from making decisions, according to the principle, What remains after the rest. But when the hour X comes, a packet to the admiral in the teeth and for execution, and how and what to execute, the leadership is not interested. Nobody is interested, and if anything, the ship will go to war on its own power? TAVKR went to Syria How did you return? And this is the ship of the first long-range battle line, with due readiness No. 0, around the clock. And this without the opposition of enemies, why, we will drive ourselves. But in case of an emergency on ships, submarines, it is a pleasure , nobody in governments In general, with this economic model, and the willingness to make decisions about the priority need for classes of ships and weapons for them, by anyone in the government, except for representatives of the Navy, the construction of the Navy does not work.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 11 November 2020 22: 15 New
    -12 qualifying.
    "As a result, the enemy retreats in exchange for the status quo. Considering how enormous Japan's superiority over the forces of the Pacific Fleet is." will seem like child's play, namely, strategic aviation that can, in one raid, bring down more than 2011 cruise missiles on Japan and its naval bases in one raid.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 37 New
      +5
      Quote: Vadim237
      namely, strategic aviation that can in one raid bring down more than 800 cruise missiles on Japan and its naval bases in one raid.

      fool
      from YOUR murzilka? (oh, manuals) lol
      by the way really flying boards How much do we have now?
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 12 November 2020 20: 54 New
      +3
      Quote: Vadim237
      "As a result, the enemy retreats in exchange for the status quo. Considering how enormous Japan's superiority over the forces of the Pacific Fleet is." will seem like child's play, namely, strategic aviation that can, in one raid, bring down more than 2011 cruise missiles on Japan and its naval bases in one raid.


      Your math is strange.
      If you hit Japan with 800 missiles. then we should have 100 bombers in the ranks?

      As far as I remember, from the Tu-95 in the ranks probably already less than 30. 6 X-555 level missiles. Total 180 missiles
      As for the Tu-160, there are probably 8-9 in the ranks for now. 12 X-555 level missiles. Total 110 missiles ...

      Where did you get 800?
      You probably counted all the pluses on the external suspension?
      I have questions right away. Do you know that a Tu-95 with such a suspension will not fly beyond 3500?
      Did you know that we have only about 10 refueling aircraft in the ranks, which by no means will be able to provide such a massive departure and non-stop flight to ensure "one raid on Japan" ...
      1. frog
        frog 13 November 2020 16: 40 New
        0
        In order to destroy everyone with one sneeze, you don't need to know anything. Previously, it was necessary to hand over the party minimum, outline the primary sources, study the materials of the next fateful congress, engage in other galvanic crap .... Which is more pleasant than working like a human being or carrying a service there. And now you don't even need that, just sit there ...

        Well
        In general, the deputy in the cap sneaks along the central one. And Petrovich loved deputies like a Rottweiler collar. He rotted our past deputy at every exit to the sea mercilessly. And then someone else told him that it was the deputy who put his paw on the wine. So Petrovich saw the deputy and, you know, even brightened his face.

        - Come on, you bloke in a cap, - he says to the deputy, - come on, swim here.

        The deputy approached and introduced himself. Petrovich looked up at him with a dull eye, like a bear on grapes, and says:

        - You passed on self-management?

        - That's right, - says the deputy.

        - Well, report, what's this? - Petrovich poked at the tie-band of the deputy remote control.

        The deputy looks at the remote control as if he sees it for the first time, and is silent.

        - And this thing, - Petrovich points a finger at the regeneration unit, - how is it equipped? Deputy again - no guogu.

        - So! - said Petrovich, and his eyes began to fill with bad blood, and his head reached into his shoulders at the same time, and then the deputy begins to understand why they say that Petrovich can gore. He brought his face closer to the deputy and said to him quietly:

        - Come on, bald pigeon, let's go, let's go over the structure of the ship.

        And we ran. We started to run from the first compartment, and in it we finished. The deputy showed himself a full body - he didn't know a damn thing. The saint was - holier than all the saints.

        At the end of the conversation, Petrovich completely reddened, swelled up like a hose, and howled:

        - What do you have in your mind? Pest! Read the newspapers? Mottos to give birth? Draw these posters? A wormhole?

        Why are you going to sea, backbone? To crush the bug? YOU are empty! Ballastin! Passenger! Monument! Will you order the dust to be blown off you? Dust?! Maybe wipe you with a damp cloth? Oh, you fool?

        What the hell are you eating here, horse, so that you can take everything to the latrine? To shit there? Who will flush the toilet for you? Who! I'm asking you? He also has a device, at the toilet!

        Z e s z n and t n and o, z n and t!

        Are you on the boat or on the honorary presidium, p and dory s and n and? And in the event of a fire, will you order you to take out first of all? Will you order to save you? May I kiss you in the ass?

        Look in my eyes, a sack of shit!

        How will you lead people? Where will you take them? And if you have to go into the fire? And if you have to give your life? You won't give your life, no-no. You will make other people give their lives for you! Look into my eyes!

        Why are you wearing a uniform, you stinking aunt! Why do you need shoulder straps? Who gave you the patches of the crew? What ... gave them to you? !! He put on a pilot! Pilot!

        You need to join the battalion! To the squadron! For horses! The horses are spinning eggs! K o mis s a r s ...
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 11 November 2020 22: 36 New
    +3
    Unfortunately, it's scary to read this. And first of all, because you yourself understand this and remember that the problems of the fleet have been quietly covered for many years and that if we are clearly much better with the Air Force / Aerospace Forces, then the fleet received very few aircraft as part of the Air Force renewal. Moreover, it is smeared over a large area. And the only way out of the situation described here is to lower the threshold for the use of at least TNW.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 November 2020 23: 42 New
      -10 qualifying.
      The only and correct way out of the situation is to equip the Bastions with hypersonic cruise missiles with a long flight range and create anti-ship MRBMs. Costs are minimal, maximum efficiency is not comparable to the cost of a ship for its crew training and maintenance equipment for the entire service life.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Vadim237
        costs are minimal

        fool
        in Kashchenko YOU, the campaign is tired of waiting lol
        or are you writing from there?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 November 2020 13: 10 New
          -7
          No, write just from there. And for a long time and under strong drugs - go get busy with a mediocre drummer for lava.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 12 November 2020 13: 14 New
            +3
            Quote: Vadim237
            mediocre lava drummer.

            you jump low somehow
            your master will be unhappy lol
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 12 November 2020 13: 35 New
        +7
        Quote: Vadim237
        The only and correct way out of the situation is to equip the Bastions with hypersonic cruise missiles with a long flight range and create anti-ship MRBMs. Costs are minimal, maximum efficiency is not comparable to the cost of a ship for its crew training and maintenance equipment for the entire service life.

        Learn to understand that the cost of destroying an aircraft carrier will ultimately be no less than the cost of an aircraft carrier.
        To destroy an aircraft carrier and its order, it was necessary to create, build five dozen super-expensive aircraft, hundreds of super-expensive missiles, provide infrastructure for design, factories for production, and airfields for basing. It was necessary to train tens of thousands of workers, thousands of engineers and designers, hundreds of pilots and thousands of military BAO. It was necessary to extract a lot of oil, process it and spend tens of millions of liters of fuel for training processes.
        And when all this has been spent for a dozen years, 100-150 billion dollars - then there may be one missile (albeit an actual cost of 1 million dollars) and break through and destroy the aircraft carrier.
        And so learn to look in general.
        And in terms of numbers, this is not even equivalent, and even more so not an asymmetric answer.

        So that the Bastions could safely shoot at 1000 km, it is necessary to completely re-equip the satellite constellation of billions for $ 100. It is necessary to completely create an impenetrable and repeatedly redundant control zone of short and long-range space with a super-powerful air defense zone and fighter aircraft; it is necessary to provide a 100% guarantee of border protection by deploying many army units. all over the coast.
        Well and, accordingly, to develop all this, build the entire infrastructure of airfields, military camps, factories and people who will work and serve for them, teach everyone, train everyone.
        And this is the same additional half a trillion dollars.

        Only in this case will we have the probability that the Bastions will be able to shoot back at the right time.

        And it is precisely these costs that will be in fact, for the likelihood that the Hypersonic missile will actually fly towards the aircraft carrier ..
        With an unknown result, more about the hit.
      3. Vale-90
        Vale-90 12 November 2020 13: 58 New
        +2
        Explain to me, military pensioners of the Navy-Where did the stupid definition of "Bastion" come from instead of the traditional ZRBD-Protected Combat Area?
        "Bastion (Italian bastionato - any protruding building, from late Lat. Bastillio - to build a fortification) - the most important element of defense in the structure of the fortress of the era of bastion fortification. It has a pentagonal shape and is more often located at the corners of the rampart (fence), and in large on straight sections. "
        Or someone thought that to call water a stone, from this it will become stronger? And SSBNs sitting in the water "bastions" will become more stable and protected?
        And somehow this stupidity got accustomed and everyone proclaims it. It's funny.

        To destroy an aircraft carrier and its order
        An aircraft carrier's warrant is a faction. A warrant-group of ships without an aircraft carrier))) Maybe that has changed again, well, it's not logical.
        1. timokhin-aa
          12 November 2020 14: 19 New
          +1
          This is borrowed from American jargon.
          1. Vale-90
            Vale-90 12 November 2020 15: 33 New
            0
            Maybe. But you have to think with your head. And approved by doc. there is something and how to call names and draw. Recently, a former navigator of the Il-38 regiment wrote to me about the Berkut - "" Ideal complex ", b &&& db, I have not seen a single plane, each has different equipment ..."
            If the industry is good for anything, then God himself ordered the rest to blunt laughing
            1. timokhin-aa
              12 November 2020 15: 40 New
              +1
              So how do civilians know about ZRBD, etc.? From people like you and know.
              What you have leaked, they know, and only those who read it.
              laughing
              1. Vale-90
                Vale-90 12 November 2020 16: 29 New
                +1
                So let it be formed, since the comm naval. If you were a doctor and on the forum of proctologists, for example, someone wrote, "prostate adenoids". Would you be indignant? belay
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 11 November 2020 23: 17 New
    0
    The question is correct.
    However, IMHO, this is not Omerika's Cunning Plan (like Putin's KP), but just a mess and the policy "Money doesn't smell, the Chubais are inviolable, and the people are eating everything."

    Because the scenario with Armenia - (they threw off the President for Life - they immediately found Biolaboratories, Snipers, Sotniks of the Maidan and the Crowd of the State Department), and Russia gave the Armenian authorities money and weapons - all of this disappeared right there. everywhere.
    With Endogan, the daddy, the senators who screwed up, the money in Roscosmos and Gazprom, and so on ...

    With such a policy, no defeats may or may not be required .... And the "overrides" will come down
  • bandabas
    bandabas 11 November 2020 23: 26 New
    +4
    Much has been written. Ah, demographic problems. There will be no people, there will be no everything.
  • Shadow041
    Shadow041 11 November 2020 23: 27 New
    -12 qualifying.
    And in conclusion, for Katz, who offers to surrender and sings about EVERYTHING IS LOST, I want to remind you that the `` antediluvian '' in his opinion Varshavyanka, in spite of all their disadvantages, have not bad radars and rocket torpedoes on meringues are all the same, far not old calibers.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 11 November 2020 23: 35 New
      11
      Quote: Shadow041
      sings about EVERYTHING IS LOST, I want to remind you that the `` antediluvian '' in his opinion Varshavyanka, despite all their disadvantages, have not bad radars

      fool
      Radar station for PODODY, yes, strong! lol - we will win with them wassat
      Quote: Shadow041
      rocket torpedoes on meringues are all the same, far from old Calibers.

      they were not born in Warsaw
      to which I personally and repeatedly "poked", incl. their Chief Designer Molchanov
      1. Shadow041
        Shadow041 12 November 2020 08: 48 New
        -4
        fool You quit smoking. New Varshavyanka calibers were shooting at Syria, and where have you been all this time, in a binge or something ?! Calibers are installed without fail and in the anti-submarine version including negativeEven Soviet-made submarines were equipped with missile-torpedoes of the previous generation, with a firing range of 50 km.
        1. Vale-90
          Vale-90 12 November 2020 10: 07 New
          +6
          Maxim meant the standard pr.877, which is therefore called. "Varshavyanka", because after 5 years in our 182nd br. they were planned to be transferred to the VD. At least that's what Ilya Petrovich Pivnenko told me, brig commander. Bech.
          And Varshavyanka, for some reason, began to call all DPLs in this series.
          No "New Varshavyanka" Those that were 405,470,229 and so on. cut long ago.
          My photo, from the Be-12. 87-88 ... I don't remember BN anymore.
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 12 November 2020 11: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: Shadow041
          Stop smoking

          bunny yes I left a long time ago lol
          Quote: Shadow041
          and in anti-submarine version including

          come on, come on, sing to me about the "anti-submarine version" lol
          I promise not to laugh loudly and it hurts not to kick
          Quote: Shadow041
          Even Soviet-made submarines were equipped with missile-torpedoes of the previous generation, with a firing range of 50 km.

          Monsieur, YOU LONG
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 12 November 2020 00: 01 New
    +1
    The situation you described was already in 1991-1993, however, "these same Americans and NATO, who sleep and see, as it were, lime us" - did not realize all this, being, by the way, at the peak of their power (in terms of preparations for nuclear weapons, forces in Europe, failure of the ATS, and so on).
    It is customary for us to interpret this as "they were afraid anyway" and "did not dare" or even as "the need was gone." But I will remind you that until the mid-90s, the revenge of our communists could well have happened, fearing a country that suddenly lost a significant share of its European "shield", whose conventional and nuclear weapons were largely on the ground. already independent states, like many infrastructural objects, and society was in a state of euphoric disunited fermentation - somehow irrational.
    I suspect that the West is simply preparing to neutralize the possibility of "nuclear blackmail" on our part in the event that, in the historical perspective, we are concerned about the restoration of the USSR's territorial borders in some form. So that when making big bets we are not sure that we will get away with it because of the "nuclear umbrella". If before 2014 they had doubts, backed up by time, that we would act this way, then after 2014 these doubts are gone, because the Crimean operation was clearly a long time ago and a thoroughly worked out part of a PROBABLY larger operation. The fact that over time we will be interested in the involvement of Blr. and Ukrainian. directly inside its territ. unification, I have no doubts. Probably the West also. Perhaps they also see that we potentially have a desire to connect Kaliningrad with a direct corridor with the territory of the Russian Federation. Perhaps they believe that we would be interested in gas and transport through the west of Ukraine to Slovenia and further to the West - bypassing Poland and Romania, as a sort of anti-Russian historical traffic jam.
    In the West, they represent our interests and quite naturally try to limit them - for the United States, excessive symbiotic ties between Europe and us is a potential damage to their influence, NATO and economic interests, including due to the reduction of costs for European products that are competitive with US products.
    For Europe, this interest is in keeping these ties at arm's length, they have gorged themselves with a red colossus at their borders (and Eastern Europe is also at home). At the same time, they are interested in the benefit and therefore the links exist and even slowly progress, in spite of everything.

    You have to understand that we will NOT expel the US from Europe by force and without a strong economy. So we should consolidate what we have and prepare for the fact, and not for the fact that "all NATO will suddenly fall on us" - benefits except for many years of hellish trash on world commodity markets and radioactive contamination of vast territories, including in Europe has no.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 07 New
      0
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      The situation you described was already in 1991-1993, however, "these same Americans and NATO, who sleep and see how to lime us," did not realize all this, being, by the way, at the peak of their power

      we were all right then
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 12 November 2020 00: 31 New
        +4
        Well, formally, we still have a response "all right". In fact, at that time, our most combat-ready group of forces was in a state of evacuation, arsenals and units of the fleet were scattered between different states, some of the nuclear weapons were located on the territory of the former republics, which were already very nationalistic and pro-Western).
        The army was exhausted by Afghan diseases, poverty in its composition and hazing, very serious conflicts and national movements were brewing directly in the republics of the Russian Federation.
        Supply, logistics and technological ties were largely disrupted, many plans did not correspond to current realities and were outdated. The issues of the competence and adequacy of the top of the state caused skepticism among a significant part of society, to put it mildly, and the state of law enforcement agencies and internal troops could not be called satisfactory for solving the entire spectrum of these problems just a couple of years after the collapse.
        It should also be understood that at that point in time the government had an openly pro-Western elite (for the most part), which could sabotage an organized response to aggression - consciously or unconsciously, and precisely during the most important period.

        So no, I cannot agree with your thesis.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 42 New
          +1
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          The army was worn out

          I do not agree
          and this is not from the Internet, I found an army (fleet) in the service of the TU, with a really high combat training and experience (and problems too)
          in any case, if we take the MAIN THING - HIGH-TECHNOLOGICAL WEAPONS, then the difference between us and the West was then much less + experienced officers
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 12 November 2020 01: 34 New
            +4
            I will not argue with you - maybe you are right, maybe I am. Now it is no longer possible to find out thoroughly.
            I am personally guided by the facts available to history - we left Afghanistan with a lot of problems, and we brought them to the Chechen war for the most part. The freedom of action of our command staff in those days was rather limited, at the same time, the planning of the old level has sunk into oblivion, the planning of the new one has not yet worked out. Probably we could launch rockets, etc., but the question "could" we do it in the event of political paralysis, given the level of relations that was observed before / after the collapse - this causes me great skepticism. What decisions would be made by responsible people, endowed with a certain right at that time - in the case of paralysis of the "center" and information vacuum and chaos? Would these actions have been coordinated or disorganized? Now you don't even know (and thank God)

            At the same time, I can assume that even if we leave out of the brackets a purely military scenario, the West had leverage to instigate a large-scale civil war between nationalists and communists in the Russian Federation. I remember well that time and the degree of radicalization in society, the seething of all these currents and sentiments - how the nationalists in Tatarstan and the North Caucasus were muddying the waters. If we were dealing with a real force interested in the collapse of the Russian Federation, it would be better time to engage us in a civil war and chaos would not have been found. In the Civil War, we would not use nuclear weapons, and in the mess that followed the collapse of the USSR, the West could easily write off everything on "natural nationalist tendencies." No, they did not get involved with this not because of their fear or weakness, and they could calculate the consequences quite well, and their experience of influencing their minds was colossal - the West was not interested in the collapse of the Russian Federation. This did not promise him any benefits, on the contrary, a huge loose state, in whose muddy guts it would be possible to chop off any combinations favorable to the West suited him like no other.
            1. timokhin-aa
              12 November 2020 12: 34 New
              +5
              Everything you described was "then". And now Crimea and the airbase in Khmeimim.
              Therefore, they will not repeat their mistake. And they had nothing to neutralize our nuclear weapons in those years. And now there is something.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 12 November 2020 13: 12 New
                -5
                "And now there is something." This is what - you develop the topic.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  12 November 2020 13: 13 New
                  +2
                  The article is written.
              2. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 12 November 2020 15: 45 New
                -6
                Well, yes .. and what?
                1. timokhin-aa
                  12 November 2020 15: 46 New
                  +1
                  The article is written.
                  1. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 12 November 2020 15: 49 New
                    -8
                    This is nonsense about "they will shoot nuclear missiles straight into the mine" and "suicide bombers with portable charges"? Well, yes .... that's straight all the carriers will be destroyed at once in 20 minutes, but all over the country ... but while the missiles fly, the Russians will not decide answer .. Timokhin .. you are certainly bruised, but do not write nonsense, and then one story with the fleet draws on fantasies, and here it is already pure fantasy) ..
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      12 November 2020 15: 51 New
                      0
                      You just could not put the letters into words, did not understand what you read, did not master what was there.
                      1. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 12 November 2020 15: 57 New
                        -4
                        and? and it is possible, why then, following your logic, Russia did not surrender the Ossetians in 2008, Crimea in 2014, the Syrians a year later?
                      2. timokhin-aa
                        12 November 2020 16: 05 New
                        +3
                        Why did Russia have to hand them over? Where is the link with the article?
                      3. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 12 November 2020 16: 09 New
                        -9
                        so "you" write that "the Japanese have drowned our boat", "the Japanese have drowned our submarines" and "the Japanese have asked for peace." following your "logic", something like this should have happened several times already ... that is. assume that Russia, in response to the destruction of our ships, will drown several Japanese ships and gouge them with a naval base for the company ... this is apparently difficult for you)
                      4. timokhin-aa
                        12 November 2020 16: 11 New
                        +5
                        We remember the Su-24M in Syria. Remembering the Mi-24 in Azerbaijan. Do you have a memory like a fish or something?
                      5. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 12 November 2020 16: 13 New
                        -7
                        1) isolated cases, and not a systematic approach to which you are hinting, these are different things, 2) Turkey lost 10 billion dollars, and under 30 officers ... but these are trifles ..
                        3) Baku immediately apologized and began an investigation, and the results of the punishment will depend on him ..
                        4) so ​​your "logic" is lame .. or rather, it died long ago
                      6. timokhin-aa
                        12 November 2020 16: 17 New
                        +5
                        Turkey has lost about 7000 Turkoman fighters since those days, you just don't know.
                        But without pale.
                        And 22 pilots in the blown up bus, also without fawn.
                        But there was no open retaliation. Is this clear?
                        And it will not be with Japan - for the same reasons, we are not ready for a war with a serious enemy, largely thanks to uryakalka like you.
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  • 27091965
    27091965 12 November 2020 00: 02 New
    +5
    Dear Alexander, thanks for the interesting article. But I have doubts, you write;

    Could this be "misleading"? Yes, but in any case, the publication of such documents allows us to build at least two hypotheses for military planning. One is that the Americans will fight in this way, the other is that this is how they will not fight. This is already something, but we will not explore such possibilities, we will look at something else: for one important point in this document, which remained "without continuation" - it appeared there, but no special conclusions were drawn from it, but it is clear that this moment the Americans discussed and had in mind.


    Time is running out and the risks are getting higher and higher.


    The fact is that in 2009 the "Strategic Studies Institute" already published such a study, they have it much larger in volume. It examines the army and the navy, but if we touch on the navy, then the "Nuclear Stability with Russia and North Korea Workshop Write-Up" mentioned by you practically repeats everything written for Russia in the study of the "Strategic Studies Institute". I think that the conclusions have been made. At the same time, we all understand that their implementation depends on many factors.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 12 November 2020 07: 04 New
      -1
      Quote: 27091965i
      The fact is that in 2009 the "Strategic Studies Institute" already published such a study, they have it much larger in volume. It examines the army and the navy, but if we touch on the navy, then the "Nuclear Stability with Russia and North Korea Workshop Write-Up" mentioned by you practically repeats everything written for Russia in the study of the "Strategic Studies Institute". I think that the conclusions have been made. At the same time, we all understand that their implementation depends on many factors.

      good
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 12 November 2020 00: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: Eye of the Crying
    You have not answered the most interesting questions - "how" and "why".

    1. "governed government"
    2. "overlay China from land"
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 01: 21 New
      0
      If the government is manageable, why make MEAT? And for "ditching China from land", firstly, Russia is not enough, and secondly, there is not much sense in Russia.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 12 November 2020 01: 40 New
        -1
        Quote: Eye of the Crying
        If the government is manageable, why make MEAT?

        just in order to provide MEAT (for their own purposes)
        those. "governed government" - the MEAN
        "resolving the issue with China" - PURPOSE
        and "meat" is a TOOL
        Quote: Eye of the Crying
        First, Russia is not enough for "laying around China from land"

        this is REAR + Central Asia + a very good question about India's position ..
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 01: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Fizik M
          and "meat" is a TOOL


          You are very difficult to understand.

          Quote: Fizik M
          this is REAR + Central Asia


          Central Asia is already in China's pocket, Burma too. Russia will not "impose" it.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 12 November 2020 02: 07 New
            +1
            Quote: Eye of the Crying
            Russia will not "impose" it.

            us it is not necessary
            you can and should be friends with China (God forbid, be weak in this friendship)