Military Review

Into space on a meteorological rocket: projects of ultra-small space launch vehicles

65

The conquest of outer space has become one of the most important and epochal achievements of mankind. The creation of launch vehicles and the infrastructure for their launch required enormous efforts from the leading countries of the world. In our time, there has been a tendency to create fully reusable launch vehicles capable of performing dozens of flights into space. Their development and operation still requires huge resources, which can only be allocated by states or large corporations (again, with state support).



The Soviet rocket R-7, which on October 4, 1957, first put an artificial satellite into Earth orbit, and the concept of the American super-heavy rocket BFR, currently potentially capable of becoming the most advanced, fully reusable launch vehicle available to mankind

At the beginning of the XXI century, the improvement and miniaturization of electronic components made it possible to create small-sized satellites (the so-called "microsatellites" and "nanosatellites"), the mass of which is in the range of 1-100 kg. Recently, we are talking about "picosatellites" (weighing from 100 g to 1 kg) and "femto satellites" (weighing less than 100 g). Such satellites can be launched as groupage cargo from different customers or as a passing load to "large" spacecraft (SC). This launch method is not always convenient, since nanosatellites manufacturers (in what follows we will use this designation for all dimensions of ultra-small spacecraft) have to adapt to the schedule of customers for the main cargo launch, as well as because of differences in launch orbits.

This has led to the emergence of demand for ultra-small launch vehicles capable of launching spacecraft weighing about 1-100 kg.

DARPA and KB "MiG"


There were and are being developed many projects of ultralight launch vehicles - with ground, air and sea launch. In particular, the American agency DARPA has been actively working on the problem of fast launching of ultra-small spacecraft. In particular, one can recall the ALASA project, launched in 2012, within the framework of which it was planned to create a small-sized rocket designed to be launched from an F-15E fighter and put satellites weighing up to 45 kg into low reference orbit (LEO).

Into space on a meteorological rocket: projects of ultra-small space launch vehicles
ALASA project

The rocket engine installed on the rocket had to operate on NA-7 monopropellant, including monopropylene, nitrous oxide and acetylene. The launch cost was not to exceed $ 1 million. Presumably, it was the problems with the fuel, in particular with its spontaneous combustion and the tendency to explosion, that put an end to this project.

A similar project was being worked out in Russia. In 1997, the MiG design bureau, together with KazKosmos (Kazakhstan), began developing a payload (PN) launching system using a converted MiG-31I interceptor (Ishim). The project was developed on the basis of the groundwork for the creation of an anti-satellite modification of the MiG-31D.

The three-stage rocket, launched at an altitude of about 17 meters and a speed of 000 km / h, was supposed to provide a payload weighing 3000 kg into orbit at an altitude of 300 kilometers, and a payload weighing 160 kg into an orbit at an altitude of 600 kilometers.


MiG-31I concept

The difficult financial situation in Russia in the late 90s and early 2000s did not allow this project to be realized in metal, although it is possible that technical obstacles may arise in the development process.

There were many other projects of ultralight launch vehicles. Their distinguishing feature can be considered the development of projects by state structures or large (practically "state") corporations. Complex and expensive platforms such as fighters, bombers or heavy transport aircraft often had to be used as launch platforms.

All this together complicated the development and increased the cost of the complexes, and now the leadership in the creation of ultralight launch vehicles has passed into the hands of private companies.

Rocket lab


One of the most successful and most famous projects of ultralight rockets can be considered the "Electron" launch vehicle of the American-New Zealand company Rocket Lab. This two-stage rocket weighing 12550 kg is capable of launching 250 kg of PS or 150 kg of PS into a sun-synchronous orbit (SSO) with an altitude of 500 kilometers into LEO. The company plans to launch up to 130 missiles a year.


RN "Electron" and Peter Beck - CEO of Rocket Lab

The design of the rocket is made of carbon fiber; liquid-propellant jet engines (LRE) are used on a fuel pair of kerosene + oxygen. To simplify and reduce the cost of the design, it uses lithium-polymer batteries as a power source, pneumatic control systems and a system for displacing fuel from tanks, operating on compressed helium. In the manufacture of rocket engines and other rocket components, additive technologies are actively used.


The dimensions of the Electron launch vehicle compared with the dimensions of the Soyuz-2.1a, Ariane-5, Falcon 9 and Falcon HAVI missiles

It can be noted that the first rocket from Rocket Lab was the Kosmos-1 meteorological rocket (Atea-1 in Maori language), capable of lifting 2 kg of payload to an altitude of about 120 kilometers.


Meteorological rocket "Atea-1" by Rocket Lab

Lin Industrial


The Russian “analogue” of Rocket Lab can be called the company “Lin Industrial”, which develops projects for both the simplest suborbital rocket capable of reaching an altitude of 100 km, and launch vehicles designed to output payloads to LEO and SSO.

Although the market for suborbital rockets (primarily, such as meteorological and geophysical rockets) is dominated by solutions with solid fuel engines, Lin Industrial is building its suborbital rocket based on a liquid-propellant rocket engine running on kerosene and hydrogen peroxide. Most likely, this is due to the fact that Lin Industrial sees its main direction of development in the commercial launch of the launch vehicle into orbit, and the liquid-propellant suborbital rocket is more likely to be used to develop technical solutions.


Suborbital rocket of the company "Lin Industrial"

The main project of the Lin Industrial company is the Taimyr ultralight launch vehicle. Initially, the project provided for a modular layout with a series-parallel arrangement of modules, which allows the formation of a launch vehicle with the possibility of outputting a payload weighing from 10 to 180 kg to LEO. The change in the minimum mass of the withdrawn missile was to be ensured by changing the number of universal missile units (UBR) - URB-1, URB-2 and URB-3 and the third stage RB-2 rocket unit.


Implementation options for the Taimyr modular missile

- "Taimyr-1A" - a three-stage launch vehicle. The first stage is URB-1 with nine liquid propellant engines, the second stage is URB-2 with one liquid propellant engine with a thrust of ~ 400 kgf, and the third stage is URB-3. The launch mass is 2,6 tons, the length is 16 m, the payload mass in low-earth orbit is 12 kg.
- "Taimyr-1" is a three-stage launch vehicle. The first stage is URB-1 with one LPRE with a thrust of ~ 4 tf, the second stage is URB-2 with an LPRE with a thrust of ~ 400 kgf, and the third stage is URB-3. The launch mass is 2,6 tons, the length is 16 m, the payload mass in low-earth orbit is 14 kg.
- "Taimyr-5" is a three-stage launch vehicle. The first stage - 4 URB-1 with one LPRE with a thrust of ~ 4 tf, the second stage - one URB-1 with an LPRE with a thrust of ~ 4 tf, the third stage - URB-2 with an LPRE with a thrust of ~ 100 kgf. The launch mass is 11,2 tons, the length is 16 m, and the payload mass in low-earth orbit is 108 kg.
- "Taimyr-7" is a three-stage launch vehicle. The first stage - 6 URB-1 with one LPRE with a thrust of ~ 4 tf, the second stage - one URB-1 with one LPRE with a thrust of ~ 4 tf, the third stage - URB-2 with an LPRE with a thrust of ~ 100 kgf. The launch mass is 15,6 tons, the length is 16 m, the payload mass in low-earth orbit is up to 180 kg, in sun-synchronous orbit - 85 kg.


The engines of the Taimyr launch vehicle must run on kerosene and concentrated hydrogen peroxide, the fuel must be supplied by displacement with compressed helium. The design is expected to widely use composite materials, including carbon fiber reinforced plastics and components made by 3D printing.

Later, the Lin Industrial company abandoned the modular scheme - the launch vehicle became a two-stage, with a sequential arrangement of stages, as a result of which the appearance of the Taimyr launch vehicle began to resemble the appearance of the Electron launch vehicle by Rocket Lab. Also, the displacement system on compressed helium was replaced by fuel supply using electric pumps powered by batteries.


Evolution of the project of the ultralight launch vehicle "Taimyr" by "Lin Industrial"

The first launch of the Taimyr LV is planned for 2023.

IHI Aerospace


One of the most interesting ultralight launch vehicles is the Japanese SS-520 three-stage solid-propellant rocket manufactured by IHI Aerospace, created on the basis of the S-520 geophysical rocket by adding a third stage and corresponding refinement of the onboard systems. The height of the SS-520 rocket is 9,54 meters, diameter is 0,54 meters, and the launch weight is 2600 kg. The payload mass delivered to LEO is about 4 kg.


Launch RN SS-520-4

The body of the first stage is made of high-strength steel, the second stage is made of carbon fiber composite, the head fairing is made of fiberglass. All three stages are solid fuel. The SS-520 LV control system is periodically switched on at the moment of separation of the first and second stages, and the rest of the time the rocket is stabilized by rotation.

On February 3, 2018, the SS-520-4 LV successfully launched a TRICOM-1R cubesat with a mass of 3 kilograms, designed to demonstrate the possibility of creating spacecraft from consumer electronic components. At the time of launch, the SS-520-4 launch vehicle was the smallest launch vehicle in the world, which is registered in the Guinness Book of Records.


SS-520 missiles

Creation of ultra-small launch vehicles based on solid-propellant meteorological and geophysical rockets can be a rather promising direction. Such missiles are easy to maintain, can be stored for a long time in a condition that ensures their preparation for launch in the shortest possible time.

The cost of a rocket engine can be about 50% of the cost of a rocket and it is unlikely that it will be possible to reach a figure less than 30%, even taking into account the use of additive technologies. In solid-propellant launch vehicles, a cryogenic oxidizer is not used, which requires special storage and refueling conditions immediately before launch. At the same time, for the manufacture of solid propellant charges, additive technologies are also being developed, which make it possible to "print" fuel charges of the required configuration.

The compact dimensions of the ultralight launch vehicles simplify their transportation and allow launching from various points of the planet to obtain the required orbital inclination. For ultralight launch vehicles, a much simpler launch platform is required than for "large" rockets, which makes it mobile.

Are there projects for such missiles in Russia and on what basis can they be implemented?

In the USSR, a significant number of meteorological rockets were produced - MR-1, MMP-05, MMP-08, M-100, M-100B, M-130, MMP-06, MMP-06M, MR-12, MR-20 and geophysical rockets - R-1A, R-1B, R-1V, R-1E, R-1D, R-2A, R-11A, R-5A, R-5B, R-5V, "Vertical", K65UP, MR-12 , MR-20, MN-300, 1Ya2TA. Many of them were based on military developments in ballistic missiles or anti-missiles. During the years of active exploration of the upper atmosphere, the number of launches reached 600-700 missiles per year.


Geophysical rockets of the USSR

After the collapse of the USSR, the number of launches and types of missiles was radically reduced. At the moment, Roshydromet uses two complexes - the MR-30 with the MN-300 rocket developed by the NPO Typhoon / OKB Novator and the meteorological missile MERA developed by KBP JSC.

MR-30 (MN-300)


The missile of the MR-30 complex provides lifting of 50-150 kg of scientific equipment to an altitude of 300 kilometers. The length of the MH-300 rocket is 8012 mm with a diameter of 445 mm, the launch weight is 1558 kg. The cost of one launch of the MN-300 rocket is estimated at 55-60 million rubles.


Model of the rocket and launcher of the MR-30 complex, as well as the launch of the MN-300 rocket

On the basis of the MN-300 rocket, the possibility of creating an ultra-small launch vehicle IR-300 by adding a second stage and an upper stage (in fact, a third stage) is being considered. That is, in fact, it is proposed to repeat the rather successful experience of implementing the Japanese ultralight SS-520 launch vehicle.

At the same time, some experts are of the opinion that since the maximum speed of the MN-300 rocket is about 2000 m / s, then to obtain the first cosmic speed of about 8000 m / s, which is necessary to put the launch vehicle into orbit, it may require too serious revision of the original project , which is essentially the development of a new product, which can lead to an increase in the cost of launching by almost an order of magnitude and make it unprofitable compared to competitors.

MEASURE


The meteorological rocket MERA is designed to lift a payload weighing 2-3 kg to an altitude of 110 kilometers. The mass of the MERA rocket is 67 kg.


Launcher and launch of the meteorological rocket MERA


MERA meteorological rocket payload

At first glance, the meteorological rocket MERA is absolutely unsuitable for use as a basis for creating an ultralight launch vehicle, but at the same time, there are some nuances that make it possible to challenge this point of view.

The meteorological missile MERA is a two-stage bicaliber, and only the first stage performs the acceleration function, the second - after separation, flies by inertia, which makes this complex similar to the anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM) of the Tunguska and Pantsir anti-aircraft missile and cannon complexes (ZRPK). Actually, on the basis of SAM for the air defense missile systems of the indicated complexes, the meteorological rocket MERA was created.

The first stage is a composite body with a solid propellant charge placed in it. In 2,5 seconds, the first stage accelerates the meteorological rocket to a speed of 5M (speed of sound), which is about 1500 m / s. The diameter of the first stage is 170 mm.


Meteorological rocket MERA

The first stage of the meteorological rocket MERA, made by winding a composite material, is extremely light (compared to steel and aluminum structures of a similar dimension) - its weight is only 55 kg. Also, its cost should be significantly lower than solutions made from carbon fiber.

Based on this, it can be assumed that on the basis of the first stage of the meteorological rocket MERA, a unified rocket module (URM) can be developed, designed for batch formation of stages of ultra-light launch vehicles.

In fact, there will be two such modules, they will differ in the nozzle of a rocket engine, optimized, respectively, for operation in the atmosphere or in vacuum. At the moment, the maximum diameter of the casings manufactured by JSC KBP by the winding method is supposedly 220 mm. It is possible that it is technically feasible to manufacture composite housings of larger diameter and length.

On the other hand, it is possible that the optimal solution would be the manufacture of hulls, the size of which will be unified with any ammunition for the Pantsir air defense missile system, guided missiles of the Hermes complex or MERA meteorological rockets, which will reduce the cost of a single product by increasing the volume of serial release of the same type of product.

The stages of the launch vehicle should be recruited from the URM, fastened in parallel, while the separation of the stages will be carried out transversely - the longitudinal separation of the URM in the stage is not provided. It can be assumed that the stages of such a launch vehicle will have a large parasitic mass compared to a monoblock body of a larger diameter. This is partly true, but the low weight of the case made of composite materials makes it possible to largely offset this drawback. It may turn out that a large-diameter case, made according to a similar technology, will be much more difficult and expensive to manufacture, and its walls will have to be made much thicker to ensure the necessary rigidity of the structure than in URMs connected by a package, so that in the end there is a mass of monoblock and package solutions will be comparable at a lower cost of the latter. And it is highly likely that a steel or aluminum monoblock case will be heavier than a packaged composite one.


The concept of an ultralight MERA-K launch vehicle based on the KRM, based on the first stage of the MERA meteorological rocket (the image was made on the basis of the Taimyr modular launch vehicle of the Lin Industrial company)

Parallel connection of the URM can be carried out using flat composite milled elements located in the upper and lower parts of the step (at the points of narrowing of the URM body). If necessary, additional screeds made of composite materials can be used. To reduce the cost in the structure, technological and cheap industrial materials, high-strength adhesives should be used as much as possible.

Similarly, the LV stages can be interconnected by composite tubular or reinforcing elements, and the structure can be non-separable, when the stages are separated, the load-bearing elements can be destroyed by pyro charges in a controlled manner. Moreover, to increase the reliability, the pyro charges can be located in several sequentially located points of the supporting structure and be initiated both by electric ignition and direct ignition from the flame of the engines of the higher stage, when they are turned on (to shoot the lower stage if the electric ignition did not work).


Building composite fiberglass reinforcement has high strength, low weight and high corrosion resistance. It is possible that it may well be used in the manufacture of load-bearing elements of an ultralight launch vehicle.

The launch vehicle can be controlled in the same way as it is done on the Japanese ultralight launch vehicle SS-520. The option of installing a radio command control system, similar to that installed on the Pantsir air defense missile system, can also be considered to correct the launch of the launch vehicle at least on a part of the flight path (and possibly at all stages of the flight). Potentially, this will reduce the amount of expensive equipment on board a single-use rocket by taking it to a “reusable” control vehicle.

It can be assumed that, taking into account the supporting structure, connecting elements and the control system, the final product will be able to deliver a payload weighing from several kilograms to several tens of kilograms to LEO (depending on the number of unified rocket modules in the stages) and compete with the Japanese ultralight SS- LV. 520 and other similar ultralight launch vehicles developed by Russian and foreign companies.
For the successful commercialization of the project, the estimated cost of launching the ultralight MERA-K launch vehicle should not exceed $ 3,5 million (the SS-520 launch vehicle has such a launch cost).

In addition to commercial applications, the MERA-K launch vehicle can be used for the emergency launch of military spacecraft, the size and weight of which will also gradually decrease.
Also, the developments obtained during the implementation of the MERA-K LV project can be used to create advanced weapons, for example, a hypersonic complex with a conventional warhead in the form of a compact glider, which is dropped after the launch of the LV to the upper point of the trajectory.
Author:
Photos used:
darpa.mil, vesvks.ru, spacelin.ru, habr.com, bastion-karpenko.ru, rpatyphoon.ru, kbptula.ru
65 comments
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 November 2020 06: 15
    +2
    Thank you, now I would like to read the comments of advanced members of the forum on the topic!
    Best regards, good Sunday everyone!
    1. KCA
      KCA 8 November 2020 06: 32
      0
      Not an advanced forum member, but I read that the MiG-31I was spotted on the runway in Kazakhstan, it was probably not easy to breathe, and, probably, the Russian Aerospace Forces were standing nearby
    2. Civil
      Civil 8 November 2020 18: 50
      +1
      Did you decide to finish off another groundwork of the USSR?)))
  2. Far B
    Far B 8 November 2020 06: 24
    +3
    The conquest of outer space has become one of the most important and epoch-making achievements of mankind
    Yes, truth? And here many members of the forum are sure that the USSR was engaged in this exclusively for show-off. That's bad luck. And nifiga them in the opposite can not be convinced.
  3. times
    times 8 November 2020 07: 41
    15
    satellites, the mass of which is in the range of 1-100 kg. Recently, we are already talking about "picosatellites" (weighing from 100 g to 1 kg) and "femto satellites" (weighing less than 100 g)

    With such an abundance, near-Earth space will be polluted. We need an orbital scavenger cleaner.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 8 November 2020 16: 14
      0
      Quote: mal
      We need an orbital scavenger cleaner.

      In low orbits (approximately less than 500), the vehicles are decelerated against the remnants of the atmosphere and self-landing during the months / first years of operation.
  4. SaLaR
    SaLaR 8 November 2020 10: 03
    0
    The trampoline is getting smaller .............)))
    1. Motorist
      Motorist 8 November 2020 17: 14
      +1
      Quote: SaLaR
      The trampoline is getting smaller .............)))

      And they had it initially and was not heavy: the "pioneers" in nanosatellite engineering are precisely the United States - the mass of their first satellite (took off low, by the way) was a little more than a kilogram.

      PS For comparison: the previously launched Sputnik-1 - 83,6 kg.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 8 November 2020 18: 41
        0
        Quote: Motorist
        the mass of their first satellite (took off low, by the way) was a little more than a kilogram.

        PS For comparison: the previously launched Sputnik-1 - 83,6 kg.

        You are absolutely right. In order to launch a primitive squeaker into orbit, the capitalists needed 1,36 kg of the mass of the apparatus and a carrier with a mass of 10 tons, assembled mainly from non-military components (parts of civil meteorological missiles). The Soviet power for the same required 83,6 kilograms of the apparatus and 267 tons of the starting mass of the seven.

        This gives a fairly adequate idea of ​​the level of development of space themes in the 57th year. However, through the incredible efforts of the Eisenhower administration, the Americans were again able to wrest defeat from the teeth of victory. It is difficult to remember a person who reached such truly mystical heights in playing the USSR as Eisenhower.
        1. Motorist
          Motorist 8 November 2020 19: 08
          +1
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          To put a primitive squeaker into orbit, the capitalists needed 1,36 kg of the vehicle's mass and a 10-ton carrier, assembled mainly from non-military components.


          In vain you are ironic - that they never brought out the nanosignal. But the next (successful) launch was with the help of the V-2 granddaughter, who is difficult to catch in sympathy with the anti-war movement ... And it was not the squeaker that was involved, but the mass, you understand.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 9 November 2020 05: 04
            0
            Quote: Motorist
            they never brought out that nanosigner.

            A more complex buzzer - the first one with solar panels - was brought out by this launch vehicle 3 months later.
            Quote: Motorist
            But the next (successful) launch was with the help of the V-2 granddaughter, who is difficult to catch in sympathy with the anti-war movement ...

            Yes.

            Comrade Stalin and especially Comrade Beria were able to follow the principle "from each according to his ability." In contrast to Comrade. Beria, Mr. Eisenhower was a slicker. In particular, the passion did not like the SS men and in every possible way put a spoke in their wheels. But after the proser of the pacifists and the naval officers who joined them with Vanguard, he was nevertheless forced to allow the Sturmbannführer to launch his fascist Explorer 1 on a converted military rocket. Earlier, von Braun was forbidden to use army property for such purposes.

            However.

            1. The first in space were again SS, and specifically the same von Braun, overcame a line of 100 km (in a suborbital flight) V-2 in one of the test launches. For some reason it is not customary to remember this on the day of cosmonautics.
            2. Fascist Redstone von Braun flew 4 years earlier than 7. For about a year, the Americans fought off the Sturmbannfuehrer and his idea to launch a satellite with this rocket. They would have fought back further if the USSR had not crept up unnoticed.
            3. RN Jupiter, which von Braun launched Explorer, was still almost 10 times lighter than 7.
            4. The Explorer, in turn, was not a squeaky analogue of Sputnik, but carried several scientific instruments.

            Yes, and not in the squeaker [was], but in the mass, you understand.


            I understand, but you - it seems not. The orbiting satellite went to the Americans at the cost of ten times less launch mass, Glenn's flight - three times. This indicates an incomparably higher technological level of American astronautics in general and rocketry in particular in those years. The success of the USSR in this direction was achieved solely thanks to the correct and timely decisions of the responsible persons, primarily Comrade N.S. Khrushchev, who was not thirsty to allocate public funds for a project of dubious practical value, and the much less adequate behavior of his overseas visas-a-vi.

            By the way, the next project of dubious value was Saturn-Apollo. Which, for some reason, is not remembered as knowingly senseless and criminal squandering of public money on an inconceivable scale (which it was, like the Soviet manned program), but as the greatest scientific and technical achievement (oddly enough, this is also true for both programs).
            1. Motorist
              Motorist 9 November 2020 19: 50
              +1
              Hello, thanks for the extended comment.

              Quote: Cherry Nine
              I understand, but you - it seems not.

              In a mass of warheads that can be delivered where needed when needed. And the primitive squeaker let anyone know about it. That's what I meant. hi
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 9 November 2020 20: 51
                0
                Quote: Motorist
                In a mass of warheads that can be delivered where needed when needed. And the primitive squeaker let anyone know about it.

                Well, actually no.

                First, one of the reasons for the launch of the relatively light Sputnik was problems with launching much heavier warheads.

                Secondly, and this is the most important thing, the primitive squeaker let anyone know that it was time to end the USSR immediately. Because the seven, with its time for prelaunch preparation and launch, could be a first strike weapon, but by no means a response. If God loved the Soviet government less and sent opponents less inclined to turn the other cheek to it, it could have ended badly.

                The first Soviet ICBM suitable for a retaliatory strike and thus making it possible to implement the doctrine of nuclear deterrence was the Yangelevskaya P-16, which took up combat duty only by the mid-60s. Prior to that, vague hopes of revenge, if anything, the lair of world imperialism were associated only with missiles on submarines. In fact, this extremely sad situation led to the Cuban nuclear adventure.
                1. Motorist
                  Motorist 9 November 2020 21: 09
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  If God loved the Soviet government less and sent opponents less inclined to turn the other cheek to it, it could have ended badly.

                  Well, what happened happened. I do not think that the then US leadership fully trusted the intelligence about the number, preparation time, etc., to unleash a new war. Probably, all the same, some analysts suggested that the damage could be unacceptable, especially in Europe - besides bombs and warheads, there is also an army. IMHO, of course.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 9 November 2020 22: 18
                    +3
                    Quote: Motorist
                    damage can be unacceptable, especially in Europe - besides bombs and warheads, there is also an army

                    With the army in the late 50s, again, everything was not as straightforward as it is commonly believed. Moreover, the idea that Americans can be so upset by killing Germans is not obvious to everyone.

                    But you see what's the matter, the then US leadership had many reasons and opportunities to harm the multinational Soviet people - the problems of 45, the crisis of 48 (Berlin, China), the Korean War, Castro's coming to power. But it has never taken advantage of - seriously - these opportunities. Such people, there is nothing to be done.

                    Quote: Motorist
                    Well, what happened happened.


                    Naturally. It's hard to admit that the entire immense military power of the USSR was one insane scam. Nobody ever intended to attack the USSR. Except for the PRC.

                    At the same time, if the result of the activities of the present are beautiful yachts, houses on picturesque shores, and other undoubtedly positive things, then those of the past removed the last skin from the people for the sake of a mountain of rusty, useless iron.
                    1. Motorist
                      Motorist 9 November 2020 22: 29
                      0
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      the idea that Americans can be so upset by killing Germans is not obvious to everyone

                      I also think that they were not worried about the Germans.

                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      Such people, there is nothing to be done.

                      Well, what can I say: we were lucky then with a geopolitical rival - a pacifist ...

                      Thanks for the informative conversation. hi
                    2. Motorist
                      Motorist 9 November 2020 22: 42
                      0
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      Nobody ever intended to attack the USSR.

                      Oh, you added a comment. If this is not sarcasm, then I’ll ask - what about the notorious Operation Unthinkable? Or "Unthinkable" is speculation, but in fact the fluffy capitalists were happy with the status quo, and were even ready to give up another piece of Europe?
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 9 November 2020 23: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Motorist
                        What about the notorious Operation Unthinkable?

                        Plan "Unthinkable". It's funny that from the pack of post-war plans you chose the one that attacks the USSR did not expect.
                        Quote: Motorist
                        Or "Unthinkable" is speculation

                        It can be seen that you did not participate in the unthinkable-srach with me. This is Churchill's rendition of the saying "good thoughts come after." And he knew, the old drunkard, that war with the USSR was inevitable, but he did nothing to prepare for it. Moreover, he killed himself against the wall in early elections.
                      2. Motorist
                        Motorist 9 November 2020 23: 17
                        0
                        Well, I didn’t suppose, but there - how the chip will fall ... The enslaved peoples must be liberated! No, I did not participate in those "disputes", I [write comments] here not so long ago. I will study the question.
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 9 November 2020 23: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Motorist
                        Well, I didn't expect it, but there - how the chip will fall ..

                        What does "lie down" mean? The (first) Unthinkable specifically stipulated both the theater of operations and the objectives of hostilities. No, there were no Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan there. The second option is purely an evacuation plan.
                      4. Motorist
                        Motorist 9 November 2020 23: 52
                        0
                        The chip hung in the air (it didn't even stand on an edge). They were going to fight against the Red Army, would it really be that if it was defeated in Czechoslovakia and Poland, the bourgeoisie would have stopped at the border of the USSR? Appetite comes with eating...

                        Or would the USSR not have gone further west otherwise? How would the "evacuation plan" work? Too many woulds ...

                        Sorry, I'm still educating myself on this issue; will take a long time.
                      5. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 10 November 2020 10: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Motorist
                        the bourgeoisie would stop at the border of the USSR? Appetite comes with eating...

                        What does "appetite" mean? Do you Englishmen lack living space in the East, or what? And what else is beyond the borders of the USSR? Even the unthinkable did not assume the liberation of the Baltic States, these are local Polish troubles. By the way, the liberation of Czechoslovakia and the Balkans was not envisaged there either. And by the way, Churchill had real opportunities to limit the success of peace, at least to avoid the creation of Tito's Yugoslavia. But he did not use these opportunities, even his brain did not switch in time from the logic of the war with Germany to the logic of confrontation between the two systems.
                        Quote: Motorist
                        Or would the USSR not have gone further west otherwise?

                        Now whoever was a realist was Comrade Stalin, no matter how you treat him. He understood that the Elbe-Rhine operation of the Red Army would be victorious, perhaps, but almost certainly the last for the Red Army and, probably, for the USSR. A country that has lost no matter how many tens of millions is at war with countries that have lost 800 thousand people for two and are unattainable for the Red Army. The capabilities of the SPP in the spring of 45 are enormous and cannot be compared with the barely alive Wehrmacht / Luftwaffe. Except for the General Staff and Command level, of course.
                      6. Motorist
                        Motorist 10 November 2020 19: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Do you Englishmen lack living space in the East, or what?

                        Good afternoon. Apparently, there was not enough:

                        "Although the 'will' of the two countries can be viewed as a matter directly affecting only Poland, it does not at all follow that the degree of our involvement (in the conflict) will certainly be limited"


                        This is a quote from the Wiki with a link to the source http://www.coldwar.ru/bases/operation-unthinkable.php
                        The source has just begun to study.
                      7. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 11 November 2020 00: 41
                        +1
                        )))
                        How slowly you read the generally short document. You do not need to quote it in separate paragraphs, read it to the end.
                      8. Motorist
                        Motorist 12 November 2020 20: 33
                        0
                        Hello again! hi Yes, I read for a long time, I even made notes on something. What I quoted above is stipulated at the very beginning of the plan: not excluding further hostilities and scarecrows (themselves, although the phrase looks brave) by total war.

                        In the original scan (we will call it that) - the same:

                        Even thought "the will" of those two contries may be defined as no more than a square deal for Poland, that does not necessarily limit the military commitment. ... If they [Russians] want total war, they are in a position to have it.


                        Note: freedom is in quotation marks, and Russians want total war.

                        And there is also about the occupation of Russia. In the event of an all-out war, of course; so they just wanted to fight a little. Well, as you say - theaters are marked, though not limited ...
                      9. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 12 November 2020 23: 49
                        +3
                        Quote: Motorist
                        not an exception to further hostilities and scarecrows (themselves, although the phrase looks brave) total war.

                        Seriously?

                        That is, you did not notice that the approach to total war is essentially excludes Unthinkable? And exactly for this purpose was it put there? Do you see a lot of actual text about actions east of the Bug?

                        Since you are engaged in self-education, it would be useful to study other primary sources.
                        Long telegram
                        http://www.doc20vek.ru/node/332
                        Fulton speech
                        https://proza.ru/diary/garin1/2020-05-18
                        The Truman Doctrine
                        http://www.coldwar.ru/truman/doctrine.php
                        And to polish up, the speech is "evil empire".
                        https://diletant.media/articles/34587455/

                        This is, so to speak, the basics. Then you can talk about the defense of the USSR. Where and from whom did he defend himself.

                        As an entertaining read - the extreme unthinkable mega-doctor that I came across.
                        https://warhead.su/2019/11/28/osmyslyaya-nemyslimoe-rkka-protiv-angloamerikantsev#comment269802

                        (link to a separate comment to open the whole srach).

                        However, as I understand it, reading so much is difficult for you. You can familiarize yourself with the extremely brief educational program for overclocking.
                      10. Motorist
                        Motorist 13 November 2020 00: 17
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        entering an all-out war essentially excludes the Unthinkable

                        "Who stood on whom?" (c), i.e., what excludes - explain to the proletarian!

                        I just read the original (we will call it that) and understood what I understood. Thanks for the links to mega-doctors - I will definitely read it (although it is difficult for me - credit to you), but no conjectures can be more original than the original.
                      11. Motorist
                        Motorist 13 November 2020 00: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        entering an all-out war essentially excludes the Unthinkable

                        Yeah, I guess I understood ... Well, I have a plan to set fire to a wooden house in dry weather. Actually, I just want to burn down the hallway. I understand that the whole house will burn down; but deep down I hope that either the sewers will burst, or the downpour will begin, or a company of firefighters with the necessary equipment is waiting in the neighboring bushes.

                        I think that is why the "Unthinkable" remained on paper - it was clear that "total" war was inevitable. Churchill's re-election wouldn't change anything (IMHO).
                      12. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 13 November 2020 00: 59
                        +1
                        Megasrach is dedicated to technical issues. Where there is the Red Army of all the strongest, and where not quite. At the same time, the top-starter srach sets rather sloppy starting conditions - America, even England fought not with their last strength, and could do a lot to prepare the continuation war.

                        As for reading, you should start, after all, with the primary sources.

                        Quote: Motorist
                        what excludes - explain to the proletarian!

                        What is there to explain? You almost figured it out. Although somehow in his own way - Brooke writes that the fire in the hallway cannot be considered as an independent task.
                        Question of Ch. Somehow it happened strangely with Poland, how to resolve the issue?
                        The KNSh's answer is no way.
                        3. It is clear from the ratio of the land forces of the parties that we do not have the capabilities of an offensive with the aim of achieving quick success. Considering, however, that the Russian and allied ground forces are in contact from the Baltic to the Mediterranean, we must be ready for operations in the land theater ...
                        4. Therefore, we believe that if a war breaks out, to achieve rapid limited success will be beyond our capabilities and we will find ourselves embroiled in a protracted war against overwhelming forces. Moreover, the superiority of these forces could increase prohibitively if the fatigue and indifference of the Americans grows and they are drawn to their side by the magnet of the war in the Pacific.

                        Reaction H
                        We need to think over a clear plan for how we can protect our Island.


                        For a supposed WWII winner, a bit of a strange approach, no?
                      13. Motorist
                        Motorist 13 November 2020 01: 06
                        +1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Where there is the Red Army of all the strongest, and where not quite.

                        This analysis is already in the original plan. Anyway - thanks, I will study your links. hi
                      14. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 13 November 2020 01: 07
                        -1
                        The original contains errors. Afterthought should not be underestimated.
                      15. Motorist
                        Motorist 13 November 2020 23: 52
                        0
                        Good evening Cherry Nine.

                        I began to study your links (the ambassador's telegram and its very thesis retelling by a political scientist on the radio). I want to warn you not to expect an analysis from me - that would be too much text, and writing is also not easy for me. Plus this material [already] entails the need to study the accompanying ones, which, in turn, again takes time.

                        So, while I am "merging", I have kept your links, I will continue the educational program. Sincerely. hi
                      16. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 14 November 2020 00: 31
                        -1
                        Hello.

                        Considering 3 days of reading the Unthinkable, I don't expect you before mid-January)))))
  • rocket757
    rocket757 8 November 2020 10: 04
    0
    Bye, very funny!
    In the long term, all this is very interesting !!!
    Boom to see.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 8 November 2020 10: 34
    0
    And I believe in air launch.
    I do not know why. We can not advanced.
    1. Lontus
      Lontus 8 November 2020 11: 58
      +1
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      And I believe in air launch.
      I do not know why. We can not advanced.

      What do you mean by "air launch"?
      Airplane?
      Or from a balloon?
      The trick is that the movement in the atmosphere takes only 5 percent in time and energy when launching a rocket into space. There are no big savings, but there are a lot of hemorrhoids with an airplane start.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 8 November 2020 16: 21
        -1
        > There are no big savings, but there are a lot of hemorrhoids with airplane launch.

        Well, theoretically, the launch of the rocket before launch is actually beyond the current MaxQ point, it makes it possible to wink, for example, with a more "vacuum" nozzle of the first stage. And you do not take into account the amount of fuel and, accordingly, starting thrust, which are spent on these "first 5%".

        But all this makes sense when the flight of the aircraft itself is free, like that of the military, and the aircraft itself is something like the MiG-31 in terms of speed and altitude. If you have to bother with a separate civic platform, then it doesn't pay off.
  • Operator
    Operator 8 November 2020 11: 50
    -10 qualifying.
    What is the problem to ensure that the launch vehicle is filled with liquid oxygen and hydrogen from Dewar vessels before launch?

    What is the problem to make the LV body in the form of a composite high-pressure cylinder for joint filling with oxygen and hydrogen in the form of a supercritical fluid that does not require a turbo pump for its supply?

    What is the problem to mold an uncooled liquid-propellant engine from a carbon-carbon composite (with a deposition of a silicon carbide coating) and a nozzle head printed on a laser printer?

    PS Solid fuel LV - dead-end branch.
    1. Lontus
      Lontus 8 November 2020 12: 12
      0
      Quote: Operator
      What is the problem to ensure that the launch vehicle is filled with liquid oxygen and hydrogen before launch?

      There are no particular problems with oxygen.
      But hydrogen requires very expensive infrastructure and expensive skilled personnel.
      this is why ALL hydrogen rockets are VERY expensive.
      There is not a single hydrogen launch vehicle with an economically competitive price - both Delta 4 and Atlas 5 and Arian 5 - all lose in terms of the price of a launch vehicle powered by a different fuel in the same payload class.

      "Hydrogen-shit" (c) Elon Musk

      Almost everything can be forgiven for this coherent wording:
      And Martian nonsense, and clowning with the landing of the first steps of Falcon,
      and even a promise about flying around the moon in 2018.

      Hyperloop alone cannot be forgiven until he repents.
      1. Operator
        Operator 8 November 2020 12: 34
        -6
        "Musk is shit", - Operator (C) laughing

        Right now, OAO TMH, OAO Russian Railways (RZD - cap) and State Corporation Rosatom are developing a hydrogen rail bus for the God-forsaken Sakhalin Island with implementation starting in 2021.

        Once again, what is the problem to fill the launch vehicle with technical oxygen and hydrogen from cylinders with a pressure of 350 atmospheres, having previously cooled them to a supercritical temperature (-118 ° С for oxygen and -239 ° С for hydrogen, what to mix with is a separate question).

        The retail cost of technical hydrogen obtained by electrolysis from water (which in any large industrial center is like mud) is currently 300 rubles per 1 kg. At nuclear power plants, the wholesale price of hydrogen is 90 rubles per 1 kg. The wholesale price of hydrogen produced by the steam-gas conversion of methane is 40 rubles per 1 kg. Oxygen is a byproduct of water electrolysis and costs a penny.

        At the moment, on Sakhalin Island, several organizations are planning to create export production facilities for steam-gas conversion of local methane with a capacity of several tens of thousands of tons. This is where it is necessary to create a mini-cosmodrome for small launch vehicles.
        1. Lontus
          Lontus 8 November 2020 12: 38
          +2
          Quote: Operator
          Once again - what is the problem to fill the LV with technical oxygen and hydrogen

          I wrote
          Quote: Lontus
          hydrogen requires very expensive infrastructure and expensive skilled personnel.
          this is why ALL hydrogen rockets are VERY expensive.
          There is not a single hydrogen launch vehicle with an economically competitive price - both Delta 4 and Atlas 5 and Arian 5 - all lose in terms of the price of a launch vehicle powered by a different fuel in the same payload class.
          1. Operator
            Operator 8 November 2020 12: 41
            -9
            There is no need for me (the developer of the feasibility study for the rail bus project) to tell about the price of the infrastructure for refueling with hydrogen.
            1. aristok
              aristok 8 November 2020 13: 05
              +1
              Quote: Operator
              There is no need for me (the developer of the feasibility study for the rail bus project) to tell about the price of the infrastructure for refueling with hydrogen.


              Is he already driving, this hydrogen bus?
              How it starts to be exploited, that's when you boast.
              In the meantime, there are no examples of safe and economically justified operation of hydrogen transport!
              1. Operator
                Operator 8 November 2020 13: 55
                -7
                They are already driving in Germany, France and Austria, we have a hydrogen kit (first imported, then domestic) will be installed on the basis of the existing RA-3 rail bus.
                1. aristok
                  aristok 8 November 2020 16: 26
                  +1
                  Quote: aristok
                  there are no examples of safe and economically viable operation of hydrogen transport yet !!

                  --
                  Quote: Operator
                  They already travel in Germany, France and Austria,


                  is it economically justified exploitation or window dressing for cynical bureaucrats obeying insane political players?
            2. Thrifty
              Thrifty 8 November 2020 14: 08
              0
              Operator, when your bus flies into space, do not forget to solve the problem of returning it to earth in its original form in order to use it repeatedly.
            3. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 8 November 2020 16: 24
              0
              Quote: Operator
              There is no need for me (the developer of the feasibility study for the rail bus project) to tell about the price of the infrastructure for refueling with hydrogen.

              Well, not such a feasibility study was written for the development of state money. I think it’s not for you to go to prison for these arts.
        2. Lontus
          Lontus 8 November 2020 12: 42
          +2
          Quote: Operator
          The retail cost of technical hydrogen obtained by electrolysis from water (which in any large industrial center is like mud) is currently 300 rubles per 1 kg. At nuclear power plants, the wholesale price of hydrogen is 90 rubles per kg. The wholesale price of hydrogen obtained by the steam-gas conversion of methane is 1 rubles per 40 kg.


          There is no problem to get hydrogen.

          The PROBLEM is to store and use it safely !!!
          It is very expensive !!!

          Methane rules !!
          1. Operator
            Operator 8 November 2020 12: 54
            -6
            The Sakhalin project provides for the production, storage and transportation of hydrogen in the amount of tens of thousands of tons per year. At the first stage, 12-meter cylinders with a diameter of up to half a meter under a pressure of 350 atmospheres will be used, then - under a pressure of 700 atmospheres.

            Electrolysis production and compression of hydrogen and oxygen can be deployed right now anywhere with cheap electricity, incl. at the Vostochny cosmodrome (there is the Bureyskaya hydroelectric power station nearby).

            As for the high cost - at the cost of launching a small launch vehicle at 100 million rubles, half of this amount can be bought today 200 tons of electrolysis hydrogen (oxygen is free).
            1. Knell wardenheart
              Knell wardenheart 8 November 2020 14: 24
              0
              Hydrogen as fuel och. attractive, but the operation of engines on it is fraught with a number of difficulties, such as a huge temperature difference at the point of exit from the cylinders and combustion (with the corresponding problems of materials and difficulties of technical solutions). Hydrogen has a disgusting property to seep through metals, while the pressure for its storage is very good. solid and extremely explosive and flammable. Consequently, the mass of containers with it as part of the launch vehicle is likely to be very large, and the requirements for storage and pre-flight checks will be high and cost a lot. Due to the latter, the problem will also occur throughout the entire refueling cycle - from the liquefaction plant to the LV.

              As far as I understand at this stage in the development of materials science and design, most of the advantages of hydrogen engines are covered by the problems of their use and "mass reliability" in the form of special requirements for engines (price + weight + complexity) and cylinders (weight, price, quality).
              1. Operator
                Operator 8 November 2020 14: 35
                -9
                "Saturn" and "Energia" flew on hydrogen and there was nothing super-heavy / super-dangerous in their design.

                For a small launch vehicle, it is proposed to jointly place liquid oxygen and hydrogen in a supercritical state at a temperature of -118 or -239 degrees Celsius and a pressure of 100 atmospheres in a common composite high-pressure tank with airgel insulation, which will reduce the volume of the onboard fuel supply by an order of magnitude and make it possible to abandon the turbo pump ( when using an uncooled rocket engine made of carbon-carbon material coated with silicon carbide).
                1. Motorist
                  Motorist 8 November 2020 18: 03
                  +1
                  Quote: Operator
                  "Saturn" and "Energia" flew on hydrogen

                  It is believed that the J-2s of Saturn were hydrogen only on paper (tolerates everything) and in the minds of NASAphiles (no need for a knife):

                  http://free-inform.ru/pepelaz/pepelaz-4.htm

                  Why are hydrogen engines on Sakhalin, is there diesel fuel - "cheap, reliable and practical"?
      2. Lontus
        Lontus 8 November 2020 13: 10
        +2
        Quote: Lontus
        hydrogen requires very expensive infrastructure and expensive skilled personnel.

        "... about methane-hydrogen:
        In the laboratory, gas (LNG methane) burners are installed with the same ease,
        like gas stoves in kitchens;
        And to work with hydrogen from a colleague DEMANDED:
        1. a room with a wall knocked out without breaking the load-bearing structures,
        2.reinforced independent ventilation,
        3.post with sensor-sensor and alarm,
        4.Certificates for equipment,
        5. training of personnel in a certified center and registration with the authorities.
        This is all for the sake of the unfortunate balloon, which is enough for a year of work;
        It is natural ONLY outside in a closed ventilated box can be kept
        "
        1. Operator
          Operator 8 November 2020 13: 57
          -4
          The launch site of the launch vehicle is in the open air, the electrolysis plant, the storage of filled cylinders and the hydrogen liquefaction plant are also located.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 8 November 2020 14: 13
    +2
    Thanks for the interesting article!
    And although the light version of the "Measure" type TR is very interesting, I very much doubt that it is possible to scale it (this particular structure) and even more so on its basis it is possible to build a multi-block structure. Including the conditions for stabilization by rotation - I can imagine what loads would be on this unfortunate braided composite if three stages were created on its basis.
    I suspect that it is better to develop full-fledged turbojet engine side boosters with structural design specifically for the task of this side booster - with acc. requirements for fastening strength, vertical load, well thought-out undocking ergonomics. And separately design the load-bearing stage, because there will still be slightly different requirements for it and its dimensions will inevitably differ (if we are talking about quality and reducing accidents).
    Perhaps the way to reduce the cost of launches lies precisely in the development of cheap and powerful serial TR side accelerators.

    As for the very idea of ​​light carriers - there is still a big question in the economic profitability of this direction, in fact. Quite a lot of success is observed (as far as I understand) in the field of batch launches of just the same small-sized spacecraft, and it may turn out that the market for point launches will sharply decrease, and the competition on it will be draconian, while objectively, in terms of the cost of withdrawing the conditional mass, all these missiles can lose reusable "Masks". So I think the concept would certainly be interesting to develop, but without much fanaticism and hopes ..
    1. Shopping Mall
      10 November 2020 08: 45
      +1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Thanks for the interesting article!


      Thank you!

      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      And although the light version of the "Measure" type TR is very interesting, I very much doubt that it is possible to scale it (this particular structure) and even more so on its basis it is possible to build a multi-block structure. Including the conditions for stabilization by rotation - I can imagine what loads would be on this unfortunate braided composite if three stages were created on its basis.


      I'm not sure either, of course, all this must be considered.
      PMSM has two options - to increase the size of the blocks themselves, if the equipment allows it, and to increase the number of blocks in the package. Ultimately, some kind of optimal ratio can be obtained.

      The main advantage of these blocks is that they are very light. I have seen the case of the first stage of the Tunguska rocket, made using fiberglass winding technology (without fuel) - it is very light, it can be lifted with one hand without much effort.

      Low weight - less stress when rotating. To increase stability, I propose to consider the possibility of assembling a "composite frame", a frame type, from the most affordable industrial composites, as an example cited the usual building reinforcement - by the way, it is very durable. And actively use adhesives - now there are incredibly durable solutions: https://chudo.tech/2019/08/01/klej-uderzhal-gruzovik-vesom-17-2-tonny/
      (Note the text of the link - "The previous record belongs to the Center for Aviation and Cosmonautics of Germany.", which seems to hint ...)

      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      I suspect that it is better to develop full-fledged turbojet engine side boosters with structural design specifically for the task of this side booster - with acc. requirements for fastening strength, vertical load, well thought-out undocking ergonomics. And separately design the load-bearing stage, because there will still be slightly different requirements for it and its dimensions will inevitably differ (if we are talking about quality and reducing accidents).
      Perhaps the way to reduce the cost of launches lies precisely in the development of cheap and powerful serial TR side accelerators.


      Again, PMSM, it will be cost-effective if we plant the first stage. And cheap accelerators, of course, will not hurt. Or, on the basis of them, the second and third stages can be made.

      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      As for the very idea of ​​light carriers - there is still a big question in the economic profitability of this direction, in fact. Quite a lot of success is observed (as far as I understand) in the field of batch launches of just the same small-sized spacecraft, and it may turn out that the market for point launches will sharply decrease, and the competition on it will be draconian, while objectively, in terms of the cost of withdrawing the conditional mass, all these missiles can lose reusable "Masks". So I think the concept would certainly be interesting to develop, but without much fanaticism and hopes ..


      They will always lose at the price of 1 kg, but they will always have their own niche. The market for ultralight rockets is shaped like a spoon to dinner.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 8 November 2020 14: 30
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    rpus RN in the form of a composite balloon


    There was such an airship "Hindenburg" - and now its sad fate shows that hydrogen does not like jokes about "composite cylinders" and jokes in general.
    1. Operator
      Operator 8 November 2020 17: 09
      -5
      Everything is on fire - from the R-16 ICBM on UDMH / nitric acid to the solid-propellant booster of the Challenger shuttle.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 8 November 2020 18: 05
        +2
        True, but the safety measures to prevent the ignition of hydrogen-oxygen and other fuel vapors are heaven and earth.
  • ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 8 November 2020 17: 45
    +1
    Space and Vertical were launched from the Kapustin Yar cosmodrome, but in 2020 it was decided to dismantle the launcher, which is a pity!
  • Proctologist
    Proctologist 8 November 2020 18: 17
    +2
    О Rocket lab:
    To simplify and reduce the cost of the design, it uses lithium-polymer batteries as a current source,


    Hmm. To simplify and reduce the cost of construction, electric pumps instead of the usual turbopumps for rocket engines - this is the simplification, reduction in price, innovations from Rocket Lab. Batteries are needed to power these pumps. Disposable. No batteries needed, lithium batteries were chosen simply for weight (energy density per kg) and affordability.
  • Operator
    Operator 8 November 2020 19: 41
    -1
    For hydrogen, loans are given at a minimum interest.
    1. Lontus
      Lontus 8 November 2020 21: 59
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      For hydrogen, loans are given at a minimum interest.

      please explain
      1. Operator
        Operator 8 November 2020 23: 53
        -3
        In Europe, bond loans with 1% yield are now in use for "green" projects (without carbon dioxide emissions) - solar and wind energy, hydrogen technologies in transport.

        Russian companies are also allowed to place loans in order to reduce the cross-border transport of carbon dioxide.
  • d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 9 November 2020 15: 53
    0
    The topic is interesting. We announced a competition for an ultralight rocket within the framework of the NTI, I wonder how things are there, at least someone presented something sane?