Military Review

Waiting for a revolution: from TEM to Nuclon

132

The most interesting and promising project in the rocket and space sector will soon enter a new stage. In the near future, the domestic industry will begin the development of the promising space complex Nuclon. It will be based on a transport and power module with a nuclear power propulsion system, work on which has been going on for several years.


New posts


New materials and messages on a promising project appeared a few days ago. First, a demo video and photographs from the workshops of the Arsenal Design Bureau (St. Petersburg), which is responsible for the manufacture of some units for the transport and energy module (TEM), got into free access. The pictures show the finished farm itself and with installed protective screens, radiator panels, engine compartment and other products.

On September 16, TASS published official reports on this project. Roscosmos executive director for promising programs and science Alexander Bloshenko said that by the end of this year a contract will be signed for the development of a preliminary design for a space complex called Nuclon.

The basis of the complex will be a TEM of open architecture, based on the existing developments. This product is considered as a "space tug" for transporting various payloads and conducting complex scientific missions. A nuclear power plant (NPP) of a megawatt class has been developed for Nuclon, capable of meeting all the needs of the complex.

First mission


A. Bloshenko revealed the current plans for the operation of new equipment. Work on the Nuclon will be completed by 2030, after which the first flight will take place. It is proposed not to conduct test flights, but to go straight to the actual operation of technology in the interests of science.


A special scientific complex with several main components will be created for Nuclon, which will become the load for the tug. In 2030, the tug and the target load will be separately launched into orbit, after which docking will take place. In the same year, the complex will fly to the moon, where it will conduct a number of studies and drop the orbiter.

The second phase of the mission involves a flight to Venus. At this stage, it is possible to carry out tests for refueling a tug in flight - xenon will be transferred on board, which acts as a working fluid in a special rocket engine. In orbit of Venus, the second payload drop will take place in the form of a research orbiter.

The next phase of the flight will begin with a gravitational maneuver, after which "Nuclon" will go to Jupiter. The third block of scientific equipment is intended for researching one of the satellites of the gas giant. The duration of such a multi-stage flight was not specified. Also, further plans for the space tug are not named - whether it can be used in new projects.

Before the next step


Work on a promising TEM with a nuclear power plant and an electric jet engine started in 2009-2010. A number of organizations from Roscosmos and Rosatom were involved in the creation of this project. To date, much of the research and testing of individual components has been completed. Current successes allow us to proceed to the next stage of work - designing a full-fledged complex suitable for real operation.


News the last days are of great interest. In the past, the project participants have repeatedly published various graphics and showed mock-ups of a promising TEM. Now photos of full-size units are available for free. Apparently, these are components for a prototype or prototype, the assembly of which should precede the design of a full-fledged Nuclon complex. The construction of the flight model should start only in the future.

The news about the imminent launch of the Nuclon design looks very interesting. This time, it is not just about conducting research and finding the necessary solutions, but about starting design work - moreover, on a complex for real use.

In the past, Roskosmos has repeatedly raised the topic of the future use of TEM with a new power plant, but so far it has managed only with the most general formulations. Now specific plans for using the space tug in a real scientific mission have been revealed. It is important that the mission immediately uses all the characteristic capabilities of TEM. He will be able to provide the study of three celestial bodies in one flight, incl. at a great distance from the Earth.

Advanced technologies


New messages on TEM and the Nuclon complex inspire optimism, but give cause for concern. So, the previous work in this direction took approx. 10 years. The preliminary design and technical design, construction and preparation for the first flight will take about the same time. All this once again confirms the overall complexity of the program associated with the need for technology development.


The main problems and difficulties were associated with the development of the nuclear power plant and its individual components. The core of this facility is a high-temperature gas-cooled nuclear reactor. A helium-xenon mixture is used as a coolant. The estimated power capacity of the installation is 1 MW. The complexity of creating such a facility is associated with the need to search for strong, heat-resistant and stable materials and alloys suitable for long-term use in space.

A separate task was the creation of cooling means for dumping excess heat into outer space. Several designs were considered, incl. fundamentally new. According to known data, based on the results of the research, a drip-type refrigerator-radiator was chosen. The units of such a radiator have the maximum possible area and actually form the outer contours of the TEM.

Ion engines of two types have been developed specially for TEM - a technology that is fundamentally new for our cosmonautics. A more powerful ID-500 is offered as a cruise engine; shunting engines with limited characteristics are also provided. Engines for TEM have already been developed and tested in the stand conditions.

Waiting for the revolution


The idea of ​​a transport and energy module with a nuclear power propulsion system was worked out in our country and abroad, but it was the Russian project that advanced the farthest. To date, all the necessary technologies and components have been created. Now they have to be combined into a complex suitable not only for testing in practice, but also for use in real missions.


The development of such a complex will begin in the near future. The first flight of the ready-made Nuclon is planned for 2030. The space tug is to carry out a rather difficult mission to three celestial bodies. If all the work is completed on time and does not face new difficulties that force us to adjust the schedule or revise the program as a whole, then in the future there will be a real revolution in the rocket and space industry.

Apparently, by now, within the framework of the TEM program, it has been possible to solve all the main issues, and further work will proceed without serious difficulties. However, the overall complexity and responsibility remains, and Nuclon will have to wait several more years.
Author:
Photos used:
KB "Arsenal"
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 24 September 2020 05: 26
    +7
    "Astronauts and dreamers assert,
    That apple trees will bloom on Mars "!
    1. Genry
      Genry 24 September 2020 07: 16
      12
      More live information from Konanykhin.

      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 24 September 2020 14: 28
        -23 qualifying.
        And what, this openwork "pipe", as if assembled from parts sold in Leroy by Merlin, with "solar panels" from Ali attached to it, is seriously perceived by someone as a kind of "space" structure? And this is being passed off as a breakthrough project? Where are the main details - the manned module with the cargo compartment, the propulsion system, etc.? The fact that they are promoting all over the media-pipe with panels can schoolchildren collect in the gym, where are the "products" of "Hi-tech", "High engineering"? Or are they so secret that like in the West: "We have them, but we will not show them to anyone, because they are secret"? Already tired of this bullshit, noodles.
        1. astepanov
          astepanov 24 September 2020 16: 37
          12
          Calm down, dear. Nowhere is it written that this device is designed to transport habitable modules. It is perfect for moving near-earth satellites and for exploring planets, including distant, and perhaps the very outskirts of the solar system, including the Kuiper belt. It is also useful for the delivery of descent vehicles to any objects: planets, asteroids, the Moon, comets. But astronauts will not be transported on it: it is expensive and dangerous.
          Let's count, so as not to be unfounded. The mass of the apparatus exceeds 20 tons (the most common figure is 22 tons), the total thrust of the four engines is 18 N (less than 2 kilogram-forces). From here we find the acceleration in the void: 0,8 mm / s / s. For a day of operation of the engines, the speed will increase by 69 m / s, in a month - by 2,1 km / s. Notice this is in the void. Departure from near-earth orbit cannot occur with such acceleration, because gravity must be overcome. There will be a slow and tedious unwinding in a spiral. Here is the data from the Keldysh center: (http://engjournal.ru/articles/1889/1889.pdf). The launch of a vehicle with a payload of 12 tons from an intermediate orbit to the GSO will require 180 days of time. To the moon, naturally, longer. With a manned vehicle - even longer, because even Zhirinovsky will not be able to cancel Newton's second law. During the time this thing crosses the radiation belts, the astronauts will have enough radiation beyond measure.
          Nevertheless, the flight to Mars will be much faster than the "chemistry", and the cargo can be delivered much more massive. And the farther the planets are, the greater the gain both in time and in the mass of the delivered cargo.
          As for manned missions, for example, to Mars, they can be carried out on tugs of the same type, but much heavier and more powerful. Here is from the same article: the power of an EPP with a capacity of 15 ... 30 MW (i.e. a reactor with a capacity of 40 - 60 MW) will be required, the round trip time plus a month on Mars will be 840 ... 700 days, the payload mass is 120 tons, the launch mass - from 420 to 550 tons! It is clear that by 2030 there will not be such a machine yet.
          I am convinced that by the end of the century, space will be mastered by automatic vehicles. It is both safer and cheaper, and the results are better. Perhaps the Moon will be an exception. The chemical missiles will remain for output to LEO, and then - in an electric tug. And let the madmen fly to Mars with the Mask at the head. Everyone has the right to futile suicide.
        2. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova 24 September 2020 16: 38
          +1
          you are constantly trying to stick a spoon everywhere !!!
          where is it written about the habitable module ??? this is an automatic truck
        3. Alexey Polyutkin
          Alexey Polyutkin 1 October 2020 22: 46
          0
          Why screech like a pig in a slaughterhouse? Google it, check it out. And with the facts: wellcome tu Russian s..ka))))
      2. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 24 September 2020 17: 45
        +2
        Does anyone understand why blacken it?
        1. bar
          bar 25 September 2020 09: 30
          +3
          Apparently for better cooling. Black surface radiates better.
        2. shonsu
          shonsu 25 September 2020 22: 26
          +2
          Elementary Watson. Black gives off much more heat than white.
      3. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 1 October 2020 04: 15
        -3
        Also at first I did not understand - why solar panels, if there is a nuclear reactor. I reread - these are not solar panels, but cooling radiators. Here the question is different. Dreamed about Mars, about Jupiter. You can fly to Mars and Jupiter with the help of a completely ordinary rocket with a liquid propellant engine (probably cheaper), and this has been done more than once by the Americans and we (only to Mars). But how many successful expeditions to Mars do we have? If memory does not change - either one, or none at all. We still did not know how to make spacecraft capable of withstanding a flight to Mars without serious jambs (I am silent about Jupiter). And this nuclear tug in its complexity clearly surpasses everything that has been built so far. Another cut?
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 24 September 2020 05: 33
    19
    Mdaaa beautifully the author described the project what but let's wait until all this comes true ... there have already been so many stupid failures in our civilian cosmonautics that I already swear to say anything about her ... I'd better cross myself and spit over my shoulder three times for good luck to her.
    1. Temples
      Temples 24 September 2020 08: 40
      -5
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      there have already been so many stupid failures in our civilian astronautics

      What kind of "our civilian astronautics?" request
      All the same design bureaus as in the formation of this industry in our country in the last century.

      And the "failures" are mainly in the media and are clearly ordered.

      For example, look at Konanykhina, he chews what's what.
      The link is at the top.
      1. Temples
        Temples 24 September 2020 09: 51
        16
        And let me remind you that the main "failure" of our cosmonautics was in Belovezhskaya Pushcha.
        In an instant we lost the cosmodrome with all the launch pads.

        In Plesetsk, the Zenith table remained and that's it!

        You can't launch a rocket from a hypermarket parking lot.


        So, the guaranteed access to space is still in production - Vostochny.

        Baikonur in a foreign country.

        The platform is still being upgraded. good

        Things are done, but they will whine. And the more we do, the louder the cry will be.
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 24 September 2020 14: 49
          -9
          Quote: Temples
          In an instant we lost the cosmodrome with all the launch pads.


          They lost it so much that they used it for 25 years.
      2. Trapp1st
        Trapp1st 24 September 2020 10: 27
        +7
        And the "failures" are mainly in the media and are clearly ordered.
        Let me remind you of the Russian space plans announced by Dmitry Rogozin 10 years ago:
        automated base on the moon (2020), landing of people on the moon (2025) and landing of people on Mars (2040).
        Implemented plans - 0, and what we hear again
        In 2030, the tug and the target load will be separately launched into orbit, after which the docking will take place. In the same year, the complex will fly to the Moon, where it will conduct a number of studies and drop the orbiter.
        The same 10 years, only the plans are different. It can be assumed that the percentage of implementation of new plans will be the same.
        1. Temples
          Temples 24 September 2020 11: 25
          +4
          Quote: Trapp1st
          Let me remind you of the Russian space plans voiced by Dmitry Rogozin 10 years ago:


          24 May 2018 years Rogozin appointed CEO of Roscosmos

          Two years ago!

          And look around:
          - The eastern one is under construction.
          - One launch pad works.
          - The starting table for Angora is being completed.
          - Baiterek under Soyuz5 is being done.
          - Sea stratum in Russia. The decision to modernize for Soyuz5 has been made.
          - Nuclear tug in the process of assembly.

          Well, the whiners at the base. wink

          All are chin-chinar. good
          1. Trapp1st
            Trapp1st 24 September 2020 11: 40
            +5
            On May 24, 2018 Rogozin was appointed General Director of Roscosmos
            Voicing the space program, he was neither more nor less Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation!!! So the appointment of his gene. a director can be unambiguously regarded as a demotion.
            ... The starting table for Angora is being completed. Baiterek under Soyuz5 is doing ...
            Yeah, still the science module is being completed laughing.
            Well, the whiners at the base. wink
            I will be glad to be wrong, practice shows that if something during the assembly process does not mean anything.
        2. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 24 September 2020 16: 16
          0
          Quote: Trapp1st
          The same 10 years, only the plans are different. It can be assumed that the percentage of implementation of new plans will be the same.



          Watch from 02: 26
        3. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 24 September 2020 23: 04
          0
          Quote: Trapp1st
          Let me remind you of the Russian space plans announced by Dmitry Rogozin 10 years ago:

          You are all confusing. Not 10 years ago, but 14, not Rogozin, but Sevastyanov, and not in 2025 landing of people, but in 2015 a permanent inhabited station, and in 2025 already the first plant for the extraction of helium-3.
          https://lenta.ru/news/2006/01/25/moon/
    2. Vadim_888
      Vadim_888 3 October 2020 21: 27
      -2
      Just let it be launched from a kuru or sea launch, further from Russia
  3. fa2998
    fa2998 24 September 2020 06: 05
    -14 qualifying.
    And there is a guarantee that at the start this nuclear tug will not make a somersault and "land" nearby, or a high-altitude explosion - on board not kerosene but Chernobyl.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 24 September 2020 06: 08
      +6
      high-altitude explosion-on board is not kerosene but Chernobyl.

      For God's sake, just don't cheat.
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 24 September 2020 06: 19
      +2
      Quote: fa2998
      And there is a guarantee that at the start this nuclear tug will not make a somersault and "land" nearby, or a high-altitude explosion - on board not kerosene but Chernobyl.

      Is there any means to bring such a machine from Earth into orbit?
      1. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 09: 25
        +5
        Quote: mat-vey
        Is there any means to launch such a machine from Earth into orbit?

        Watch the video above, this folded transformer is only 7 meters long.
        In short, the dimensions fit into the dimensions of one module of the orbital station.
        1. Temples
          Temples 24 September 2020 09: 44
          -3
          Quote: mat-vey
          Is there any means to launch such a machine from Earth into orbit?

          Therefore, the year 30 is indicated.

          Funds are also created:
          Cosmodrome Vostochny
          rocket Yenisei
          Angara5 rocket in several payload options.

          Everything is at work.

          Notice not on paper, but in production.
        2. mat-vey
          mat-vey 24 September 2020 09: 46
          -2
          Quote: Alexey Sommer
          In short, the dimensions fit into the dimensions of one module of the orbital station.

          and weight?
          To what orbit should the Nuclon be launched with its nuclear power plant?
          1. Alexey Sommer
            Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 09: 51
            +2
            Quote: mat-vey
            To what orbit should the Nuclon be launched with its nuclear power plant?

            Yes. The weight of the dry "Nuclon" is 5,5 tons, filled with helium and uranium in the region of 7 tons, if I don't confuse anything. In any case, the order of the numbers is as follows.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 24 September 2020 09: 53
              +1
              Quote: Alexey Sommer
              Yes. The weight of the dry "Nuclon" is 5,5 tons, filled with helium and uranium in the region of 7 tons, if I don't confuse anything. In any case, the order of the numbers is as follows.

              It's just (hmm Vika) writes about the starting 20290 kg, and we only have the Proton capable of this, but into a low orbit ..
              1. Alexey Sommer
                Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 09: 57
                +4
                Looks like I was wrong. Excuse me.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 24 September 2020 09: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey Sommer
                  Looks like I was wrong. Excuse me.

                  Yes, it's just practically zero information, and the fact that there is such unsteady so it is not surprising and gives rise to even more questions ...
          2. ont65
            ont65 25 September 2020 08: 44
            0
            The fixed orbit is indicated at 800 km.
        3. dauria
          dauria 24 September 2020 10: 21
          +2
          when folded, this transformer is only 7 meters long.


          So the power ... It just sounds scary "megawatt". But this is only 1300 horses. WWII fighter engine, not the coolest.
          It looks like the American program "Prometheus". The installation was to consist of an ion engine and a compact nuclear reactor supplying electricity to the engine. The required power of the reactor is 250 kilowatts. The ion engine should develop a thrust of about 60 grams. They refused in 2005, they regretted the money. But it was only necessary 3 billion dollars. They were going to Jupiter in 2016.
      2. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 24 September 2020 10: 35
        -1
        Yes, there is, the Soviet Proton-M will do just fine
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 24 September 2020 10: 38
          -1
          Quote: mat-vey
          Quote: Alexey Sommer
          In short, the dimensions fit into the dimensions of one module of the orbital station.

          and weight?
          To what orbit should the Nuclon be launched with its nuclear power plant?

          Quote: mat-vey
          Quote: Alexey Sommer
          Yes. The weight of the dry "Nuclon" is 5,5 tons, filled with helium and uranium in the region of 7 tons, if I don't confuse anything. In any case, the order of the numbers is as follows.

          It's just (hmm Vika) writes about the starting 20290 kg, and we only have the Proton capable of this, but into a low orbit ..
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 24 September 2020 17: 48
        0
        Angara A5B will withdraw this tugboat from her as a 38-ton project at LEO.
    3. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 24 September 2020 11: 50
      +2
      Even if the rocket falls, it will not be Chernobyl. And the reactor is too small, and there will be no explosion. The maximum is contamination of the crash site.
    4. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 24 September 2020 16: 39
      -4
      who does not take risks and does not drink
  4. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 24 September 2020 06: 22
    +1
    Tell me, the graphylene pipe is very similar. repeat The tug, I think, is more of a pusher. repeat
  5. Grievous
    Grievous 24 September 2020 06: 50
    0
    And who will serve it in space and how?
    1. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 09: 26
      +2
      Quote: Grievous
      And who will serve it in space and how?

      Why serve it? In addition to the orbital manned stations, the rest of the spacecraft are completely out of service.
  6. evgen1221
    evgen1221 24 September 2020 07: 13
    -4
    In the near future, Roskosmos will begin cutting under the next super-super-performer project for which, objectively, not engineers, not assemblers, are not expected to have power. How are things with the Federation? Is it flying, al ase is just being renamed? Well, the country really does not have the opportunity for such a project in metal, many years of development, sketches for PCs, yes, in metal in the foreseeable future, not in this life.
    1. A009
      A009 24 September 2020 10: 10
      +1
      That is, you don't need to do anything, did I understand correctly? then there will be no "cut". Right? we'll just sit, do nothing and look around. Perfect)
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 24 September 2020 12: 17
        0
        It is not the plans but the finished result that needs to be promoted, if only some tangible fragments of a big deal are ready. And so the manilovism about the crystal bridge from Shapetovka to St. Petersburg with kyrosin lanterns turns out. Plans to voice and I can do on any topic, that is a separate matter.
    2. Disant
      Disant 27 September 2020 13: 43
      0
      How are things with the Federation?

      successfully flew in the face of Crew Dragon in new fishing boots, which the Americans have been developing for a dozen years.
      Why do you need the Federation then ?? Do you urgently need to spend money somewhere? Are the old bumpers tired? Are the headlights worn out? We have a Soyuz, tested and modernized a thousand times over, for flights to Earth's orbit. But if you urgently need it, it will continue to start up to the moon and back, only you will need to fasten something.
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 24 September 2020 07: 32
    +4
    The first flight of the finished Nuclon is scheduled for 2030.
    ... Let's wait ... In 10 years, a lot of things can happen and change.
  8. donavi49
    donavi49 24 September 2020 07: 57
    +5
    Well, so far there is a model of a nuclear tug, but the Arab money is gone.

    After the astronauts left, there was an idea that they would be replaced by Arabs. UAE + KSA + Egypt.
    Rogozin worked very actively, preliminary agreements were concluded for preparation and flights to the ISS.


    However, the center named after Muhammad bin Rashid has now signed a firm contract with the Americans. 4 Arab cosmonauts will prepare for a flight to the ISS in a full profile with EVA, and not as tourists - do not touch anything, take pictures there.

    As the Prime Minister and Vice President of the UAE Mohammed ibn Rashid Al Maktoum said on Twitter, the Muhammad bin Rashid Space Center signed an agreement with the US space agency to train astronauts in potential future missions to the International Space Station, including spacewalks and work at the station. “The program will prepare our youth and astronauts for future flights,” said the Emir of Dubai.

    From September 21 this year Al-Mansoori and Al-Neyadi began training for flights to the ISS already at the Lyndon Johnson Space Center in Houston (USA).

    Similar training at NASA later two more astronauts must pass from the United Arab Emirates.



    Well, USCV-1 will fly in a month. Crew of 4 people. The first full-fledged American mission from the last shuttle.
  9. Bolo
    Bolo 24 September 2020 09: 01
    -8
    Oh, they can't really assemble Zhiguli, but there, into space on vigorous fuel (. First feed the old people, give pensions human, not dogs, give medications that cure ... Ah, what can I say, sheer manilovism!
    1. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 09: 26
      0
      Quote: Bolo
      Oh, they can't really assemble the Zhiguli, but there, into space on vigorous fuel

      And what has a Zhiguli to do with it?
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 24 September 2020 12: 19
        +1
        Yes, nothing to do with it, nothing against the background of the same Japanese 80-90
        1. Alexey Sommer
          Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 13: 51
          +4
          Quote: evgen1221
          Yes, nothing to do with it, nothing against the background of the same Japanese 80-90

          I do not presume to judge by the Japanese auto-clutter of the 80-90s, but by the missile launches now, something like that.
          Statistics for 2019 on missile launches.
          Russia 22 launches, 22 successful
          Japan 2 launches, 2 successful ..
          Hmm .. We are certainly far from Japan .. laughing
    2. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 24 September 2020 16: 44
      -4
      they fly on nuclear batteries for a long time
      1. ont65
        ont65 25 September 2020 08: 52
        0
        Batteries are low-power and in terms of weight / power ratio, and most importantly, they lose in price to thermal machine ones, so they were abandoned in this project.
  10. A009
    A009 24 September 2020 10: 14
    +5
    The concept has been greatly simplified. (they refused from the drip radiators mentioned in the article. In the photo and video, the radiating panels), they also abandoned the turbines (they could not achieve due reliability for a 10-year service life without maintenance with monstrous operating parameters, until they could not) they were replaced with used thermoelectric generators. with a new technological base
    It is these "simplifications" (because, in fact, also the cutting edge of science) that give reason to hope for success
    1. Knell wardenheart
      Knell wardenheart 24 September 2020 12: 15
      -3
      And like on this pull-pull and another 10 years will be? Like the hope that there will be some kind of breakthrough and they will contrive and shove it inside?
    2. garri-lin
      garri-lin 24 September 2020 14: 18
      -1
      Was the turbine option really considered?
      1. A009
        A009 24 September 2020 14: 49
        +1
        In the original version, the gas from the primary circuit turned exactly the turbines to generate electricity. They have not been able to provide sufficient reliability so far. (The temperature there seems to be more than 1500 Celsius, plus gigantic radiation, plus, if I remember correctly, the rpm was calculated for 150 thousand. And all this is unattended for 10 years, that is, the entire service life)
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 24 September 2020 15: 20
          -1
          Come on. Dreamers.
    3. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 1 October 2020 04: 27
      0
      "they've been replaced with used thermoelectric generators." - How interesting! are they already worked out, of the required (considerable) capacity? and what is their efficiency? And to drive the coolant around the circuit - no matter what kind of pump or turbine is needed, will it withstand 10 years without repair and maintenance?
  11. Operator
    Operator 24 September 2020 11: 08
    -2
    What is the point of a 20-ton tug with 300 grams of bollard pull? laughing
    1. A009
      A009 24 September 2020 11: 14
      0
      The speed of delivery of goods over long distances. I will explain - delivery is much faster
      1. Operator
        Operator 24 September 2020 11: 55
        -1
        The speed of interplanetary flights will be clearly faster (by several orders of magnitude) and more thrust (also by several orders of magnitude) when using a ramjet nuclear rocket engine with a working fluid in the form of helium, which cools the hot zone of the reactor.

        Then why would a goat accordion - a thermionic conversion of reactor heat with scanty efficiency, huge and heavy radiators and other waste?
        1. A009
          A009 24 September 2020 12: 00
          +1
          Tell me, please, what specific impulse will such an engine have? this is the first.
          The second such technology (tested for implementation now) is not
          third, what are the tanks with a working fluid needed for this engine.
          fourth - the resource of the work of the only working layout was 1 hour (from the wiki), I don't think that it would really be much longer.
          Now the question is, are you sure that this is the best solution? it does not win in any parameter
          And the last thing about speed by several orders of magnitude. What is it based on ??? Fundamentally not true when using a nuclear rocket engine instead of a given nuclear propulsion system.
          1. Operator
            Operator 24 September 2020 15: 24
            +1
            As far as I remember, the specific impulse of a ramjet nuclear rocket engine is about 1000 seconds. The volume of tanks with a working fluid is an order of magnitude less than the volume of tanks with hydrogen for a chemical rocket engine

            Such a nuclear-powered rocket reaches Mars twice as fast as a chemical-powered rocket.
            1. A009
              A009 24 September 2020 16: 51
              0
              Good. And this power plant will fly about 12 times faster, according to calculations, and the tanks are much less needed (the consumption of the working fluid in plasma rocket engines is 3 orders of magnitude, if I am not mistaken, less than in ramjet engines)
        2. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 24 September 2020 14: 31
          -2
          Quote: Operator
          ramjet nuclear rocket engine with a working fluid in the form of helium, cooling the hot zone of the reactor.


          Such an engine does not exist in nature, so you can lie about it whatever you want.
          1. Genry
            Genry 24 September 2020 15: 41
            0
            Quote: Eye of the Crying
            Such an engine does not exist in nature, so you can lie about it whatever you want.

            This is the simplest and most primitive design of a jet engine. You use it every day as an electric kettle (instead of heating elements we mean nuclear fuel elements) ...
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 24 September 2020 15: 49
              -4
              Quote: Genry
              This is the simplest and most primitive design of a jet engine.


              Once again, slowly: this engine does not exist. The reasoning that he is "several orders of magnitude more effective" is just chatter.

              Quote: Genry
              You use it every day as an electric kettle


              A kettle as an analogue of a direct-flow YARD on helium. I do not know what to say. By the way, do you know where the helium for a ramjet engine will come from in space?
              1. Genry
                Genry 24 September 2020 16: 01
                -1
                Quote: Eye of the Crying
                By the way, do you know where the helium for a ramjet engine will come from in space?

                The reserve from the Earth (like any working fluid).
                And hydrogen is assumed - it is lighter than helium, but the momentum is not worse.
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 24 September 2020 16: 07
                  -4
                  A ramjet engine takes a working fluid from the environment (even a ramjet engine, even a hypothetical Bassard engine). If the stock from the Earth is no longer a ramjet engine. If Konanykhin also talked about a ramjet engine ... well, with its expert level everything is clear for a long time.

                  Quote: Genry
                  And hydrogen is assumed


                  The character with the nickname "Operator", to whom I answered, talked about helium.
                  1. Genry
                    Genry 24 September 2020 16: 11
                    +1
                    Quote: Eye of the Crying
                    The ramjet motor takes the working fluid from the environment

                    Don't cling to caveats. Direct-flow here refers to the reactor zone - without a protective circuit (shield).
                    1. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 24 September 2020 17: 18
                      -2
                      Quote: Genry
                      Don't cling to caveats.


                      You clearly said about the "engine design". The operator, by the way, too. And ramjet engines ... see above.

                      Quote: Genry
                      Direct-flow here refers to the reactor zone - without a protective circuit (screen).


                      A once-through reactor ... okay, whatever you say.
                2. fa2998
                  fa2998 24 September 2020 17: 10
                  -1
                  What then is the advantage? There the fuel and oxidizer are running out, here is hydrogen and something else - and EVERYTHING, even though uranium took and flew in for 100 years.
                  1. Genry
                    Genry 24 September 2020 17: 46
                    0
                    Quote: fa2998
                    What then is the advantage? There fuel and oxidizer runs out, here hydrogen and something else - and ALL

                    With a chemical engine, you have no chance of returning from distant planets (Mars, for example), since having started in the optimal time window, you will return already outside of it, i.e. the distance will already be enormous and the return time will be several years (man and ship will pick up cosmic radiation).
        3. Genry
          Genry 24 September 2020 15: 50
          0
          Quote: Operator
          The speed of interplanetary flights will be clearly faster (by several orders of magnitude) and more thrust (also by several orders of magnitude) when using a ramjet nuclear rocket engine with a working fluid in the form of helium

          See Dmitry Konanykhin - he clearly explains that the tug is supposed to include four nuclear jet engines running on hydrogen (not helium) и Nuclear power system "Nuclon" of megawatt power, which provides constant cooling of liquid hydrogen tanks for several starts (acceleration + deceleration and reverse acceleration + deceleration) of a nuclear ramjet engine.
          1. A009
            A009 24 September 2020 17: 07
            +1
            Didn't look at the person you specified, but in this installation:
            1- 4 nuclear jet engines are NOT used (otherwise 4 reactors with direct gas cooling of the core, they are meant by nuclear jet engines)
            It uses (as far as I remember) 4 plasma rocket engines as propulsion engines and other electric rocket engines (I don't remember which system, it seems electrostatic) as shunting engines.
            2- Explain your phrase:
            ".. and the nuclear power system" Nuclon "of megawatt power, which provides constant cooling of liquid hydrogen tanks for several starts (acceleration + deceleration and reverse acceleration + deceleration) of a nuclear ramjet engine."
            that is, using a nuclear reactor to cool hydrogen tanks? Or did I misunderstand you? The whole point is to cool the reactor itself and not any tanks. (There is only one reactor. It is at the very beginning of the transport system. The farm is long so that radiation does not interfere with the operation of the systems in the tail section. There is no protection from radiation from the word at all)
            1. Genry
              Genry 24 September 2020 18: 25
              0
              Quote: A009
              It uses (as far as I remember) 4 plasma rocket engines as propulsion engines

              Plasma ones have very low thrust. They can be used for very long haul flights and for correction. But for interplanetary flights and (even more so) with human participation, they do not have sufficient thrust for rapid acceleration-deceleration and flight, under the conditions of an optimal time window and a total duration that is safe for humans.
              And the problem of the passage of the Kuiper radiation belt must also be taken into account - i.e. you cannot build up speed for a large number of turns, but you need to slip at a time, hooking only the edge of this belt.
              Therefore, there will be a NRE with a thrust commensurate with a chemical taxiway.
              Quote: A009
              2- Explain your phrase:
              ".. and the nuclear power system" Nuclon "of megawatt capacity, which provides constant cooling of liquid hydrogen tanks

              To compensate for the received external heat (cooling the hydrogen tanks without evaporating the working fluid), we need a "refrigerator" (we do not consider it because of the standard solution) and the corresponding electric power for its power supply, which is generated by the Nuclon nuclear power plant (reactor + turbine-generator + cooling planes).
              1. Genry
                Genry 24 September 2020 18: 54
                0
                Sorry! Van Allen Belt. repeat
              2. A009
                A009 24 September 2020 19: 52
                0
                Who told you that people are flying there. And I really hope that you are just kidding and "roflite" now, because you can't write something like that seriously.
                1. Genry
                  Genry 24 September 2020 20: 31
                  0
                  Quote: A009
                  Who told you that people are flying there

                  Space is politics and PR that translates into advertising the development of its economy and the popularity of goods. Similar to sports records.
                  There is also a fear that someone will find the "gods" or their remains, which will give new technological ideas. There was even a period of intensified attempts to communicate with other civilizations.
                  Nobody cares about the expediency of flying there, otherwise they would have explored the Earth and expanded current technologies.

                  The Americans will definitely send people, even one way. They will pay well, ditch it in a couple of days, and then they will shout about the heroic five or another number .... They already work out Hollywood in full - even I liked the fairy tale "The Martian". About the pseudo-documentary "show noodles" - you can immediately strengthen or hide your ears.

                  In Russia, they will actually make an attempt at a full-fledged flight to Mars (window of 2033) - it has simply been in the minds of the population for a long time. This will allow the Americans to bypass the Moon for a long time.
          2. Sergey Sfiedu
            Sergey Sfiedu 1 October 2020 04: 48
            +1
            "Look Dmitry Konanykhin - he clearly explains" - did not look, but I condemn. Sorry, but the person using the term "space nuclear ramjet engine" is technically illiterate, and the whole scheme is "four nuclear jet engines running on hydrogen (not helium) and a nuclear power system" Nuclon "of megawatt power, which provides constant cooling of tanks of liquid hydrogen for several starts "- this is more from the realm of fantasy.
    2. ont65
      ont65 25 September 2020 08: 57
      0
      1.835 kg. That would be more correct, I think. :)
  12. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 24 September 2020 11: 33
    +2
    Quote: mat-vey
    Quote: Alexey Sommer
    Yes. The weight of the dry "Nuclon" is 5,5 tons, filled with helium and uranium in the region of 7 tons, if I don't confuse anything. In any case, the order of the numbers is as follows.

    It's just (hmm Vika) writes about the starting 20290 kg, and we only have the Proton capable of this, but into a low orbit ..

    The working fluid for electric rocket engines must and its quantity depend on the efficiency of these engines.
    I read about the project of such a tug back in the 70s of the twentieth century. I hope everything goes well and we will see it by 2030.
  13. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 24 September 2020 12: 13
    +1
    An excellent, wonderful and promising project. However, I do not understand - why pull the strap with him so much ?! It’s understandable - now our space, including commercial, incredibly needs a second wind - because we were brutally bypassed, in the Lunar, Martian, Asteroid race. In reentry vehicles, in modern manned spacecraft.
    Why this project for 2030 ?! The nuclear installation is already in place, the engines are already there, the project has already been sucked to the last bone - this has been done for at least 10 years. Are we going to create a drip refrigerator for another 10 years? I understand that we are talking about a nuclear reactor and maximum attention should be paid to its protection and cooling system - but, gentlemen, we are talking about a decade! And about what we are already doing, it has not been shaky or bad for 10 years - and nuclear reactors are STILL one of the few areas of our strong competence.

    So there is a double feeling. Or this whole project is still conceptual bullshit and the horse has not yet been rolled around on the topic of the reactor. Or this is another expectation of "better times" in which we will have good oil prices and sanctions "who follows" will shoot - and then our space will be flooded with golden rain, and all these long-term construction projects will instantly come to life like mushrooms after rain.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 September 2020 17: 58
      0
      "I can’t see it — now our space, including commercial space, needs a second wind — because we were bypassed." And alas, they will bypass the same Musk with his Starship and Superhavy when he launches and the fact that his office will do them and will launch no doubts - already in this decade.
    2. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 24 September 2020 23: 35
      0
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      The nuclear installation already exists, the engines are already there, the project has already been sucked to the last bone


      Could you provide links to some official information about the real state of the project? I've already watched Konanykh's propaganda.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 25 September 2020 00: 36
        -1
        It is difficult to find the original source now - unfortunately, I have to judge by updating several sections of Wikipedia (in my case).
        Apparently, individual structural elements (for example, ID-500) are already real and have existed for many years, conceptually this project has existed for about 10 years (it is possible that it existed even during the late USSR, which is not surprising given our experience with nuclear reactors on board satellites )
        Over the past couple of years, there has been a certain revival in this direction, probably due to the high degree of completion of the design of the reactor itself at ROSATOM and with the burning of the back seat at the management of ROSKOSMOS.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. ont65
        ont65 25 September 2020 09: 09
        +1
        https://tass.ru/kosmos/9467473
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 25 September 2020 11: 06
          0
          There is no real state information.
          1. ont65
            ont65 25 September 2020 12: 45
            +1
            Information on the TEM in the internet is in its most general form at different stages of the project. It is worth looking, if interested, and start with the literature section at https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport-energy_module
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 25 September 2020 12: 48
              0
              Thank you, of course, but I have known about TASS and Wikipedia for a long time. The question was about links to how the project was "sucked to the last bone".
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. ont65
                ont65 26 September 2020 01: 59
                +1
                The sucked project is no longer a project, but a finished product. It is based on the initial data of the state order for the draft design, and they, in turn, are based on the developments known to date. The history of TEM variants has been going on since the beginning of the 60s. and in terms of the number of problems it will be equal to any other scientific energy project of the tokamak type. See Hercules project: http://www.buran.ru/htm/gud 26.htm
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 26 September 2020 02: 02
                  0
                  Quote: ont65
                  The sucked project is no longer a project, but a finished product


                  There is no finished product yet. Where exactly is it sucked?
    3. ont65
      ont65 25 September 2020 08: 59
      +1
      This tug, if it were ready, would have nothing to tow, and by the 30th year the lunar program would be launched. However, the proposed one will take time.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    4. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 1 October 2020 04: 54
      0
      "the project has already been sucked to the last bone" - of course not.
      "still conceptual bullshit" is natural, yes.
      "Now our space, including commercial space, incredibly needs a second wind" - this project has nothing to do with commercial space. From the word at all.
  14. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 24 September 2020 12: 26
    0
    The latest news sounds just like "how I stopped being afraid and fell in love with a nuclear reactor." And petrels, and some underwater toys. Now and this.

    True, there is an opinion that fakes are all.
  15. Undecim
    Undecim 24 September 2020 13: 26
    +5
    Take the keyboard away from Ryabov. Or at least forbid him to write about technology. I understand that tourist patriotic hamsters are the main contingent of the site and they need to be fed daily. But not by technical propaganda. There is Ukraine, the United States, liberals, SP-2, the heroic Donbass and other crap. Don't force the technique.
    The USSR reported about the satellite when it was in space. The same is about Gagarin. And then "The chicken is in the nest, the testicles are not known where, and Ryabov is already selling chickens to Okhotny Ryad."
  16. ares1988
    ares1988 24 September 2020 16: 49
    +2
    Wangui that it won't fly in 2030. Who's ready to bet?)
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 September 2020 17: 54
      +1
      Let's look at the previous projects Soyuz 5 Oryol Wing SV Amur LNG Soyuz 6 Angara A5P A5V Yenisei - if they fly, then this one will also fly.
      1. ont65
        ont65 25 September 2020 09: 02
        0
        Will fly. This one will definitely fly. This piece is from the category of Putin's novelties in the style of "our answer to Chamberlain." Everything will stand up, and this one will bring even burst.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 25 September 2020 20: 20
          0
          Without Angara A5B - it will not fly anywhere.
          1. ont65
            ont65 26 September 2020 00: 38
            0
            Readiness was planned by 2018. There would be no opportunity to launch it, the project would not start in this form.
  17. fa2998
    fa2998 24 September 2020 17: 06
    -2
    Quote: fa2998
    And there is a guarantee that at the start this nuclear tug will not make a somersault and "land" nearby, or a high-altitude explosion - on board not kerosene but Chernobyl.

    Probably, who put the minuses firmly convinced that the products in Rogozin's department are without refusal. Yes, at least 100 minuses stavte, saw the "pirouettes" of missiles at the start, and the search for debris in the taiga. False patriots !!!
  18. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 24 September 2020 18: 28
    +1
    With such a seemingly large scale of work, it would be wiser to first launch something like Phobos soils to Mars and make sure that they are - lo and behold! - no longer get stuck in orbit. What will happen if this "planetary spacecraft" gets stuck like Phobos-soil, and then falls, and not into the ocean, but onto a large city, on the capital of some state? And then it also explodes? It is, however, nuclear! belay And on what will the block with the reactor be put into space? The rockets fall or do not put the cargo into the calculated orbit with a probability of several percent. Hope for luck? Is the risk motivated, or is it for politicking? If you don't hope for luck, you would first have to make and test a cargo rocket with an emergency load rescue system, but nothing has been heard about this. sad Then, after Mars, it would not hurt to send a few more conventional ships to Jupiter, and make sure that the electronics and software can withstand the long flight and radiation. The Americans are already flying for Pluto, but here everything is different. Why bother with sending this miracle to Jupiter, if everyone knows that both the Soviet Union and Russia already broke down and turned off during the flight to Mars? Why do things that go against common sense? Politics - an attempt to again make some kind of jump-jump? .. At the same time, according to the state. Every day, the TV is collecting money for the treatment of sick children ... sad
    Many other technical questions. For example, judging by the photo and by Konanykhin's video, the emitter there is clearly not a drop type (and thank God), but it is not clear why it is black (Konanykhin said something nonsense). If there are such powerful engines, then why fly past Venus, how can he leave a satellite there, are they going to return it from Jupiter, etc., etc.
    1. agond
      agond 24 September 2020 18: 47
      +1
      The emitter can be completely non-metallic, based on graphite, since graphite has a high thermal conductivity, by the way, diamond has even higher thermal conductivity, and compared to copper, five times
    2. Svetlana
      Svetlana 24 September 2020 22: 04
      0
      Quote: Falcon5555
      it is not clear why he is black
      Because a black emitter emits much (several times) more intensely than a gray (or white) emitter at the same temperature of the emitter surface. The highest emissivity (absorption) has an absolutely black body. If the emitter were white, then at the same temperature as the black emitter, for the radiation of the same power, the white emitter must have a larger surface area, and therefore a large mass compared to the black emitter. That is, the emitter is made black to reduce the mass of the emitter.
      1. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 24 September 2020 23: 52
        -1
        The "white" emitter emits more, and, moreover, partially reflects the light falling on it, in this case, from the sun. An absolutely black body absorbs all radiation falling on it, but this has nothing to do with any "emissivity". Roughly, without going into subtleties - a white body, this is a black body plus reflection.
        1. Svetlana
          Svetlana 25 September 2020 08: 49
          +1
          Quote: Falcon5555
          "White" emitter emits more

          According to Kirchhoff's law of radiation, the ratio of the emissivity of any body to its absorption capacity is the same for all bodies, does not depend on their shape and chemical nature, and is a universal function of body temperature and radiation frequency. The fraction of absorbed radiation (designated as alpha) at a given frequency and temperature is called the absorption capacity of the body. By definition, an absolutely black body absorbs all radiation incident on it, that is, for it, alpha = 1.
          Real (gray, white) bodies have an absorptive capacity of less than one, which means that their emissivity is less than that of a black body.
          In order not to overheat the emitter with absorbed solar radiation, it is necessary to direct the normal to the plane of the emitter surface perpendicular to the direction to the Sun. This may be relevant at distances from the Sun, where the power of the solar radiation flux exceeds 0,5..1 kW / m2 (this is approximately equal to the power per square meter of the radiator dissipated by the radiator from the Nuclon nuclear reactor).
          1. Falcon5555
            Falcon5555 25 September 2020 12: 56
            -1
            Yes, there is such a law. I was surprised to read about it! But, as I understand it, it is applicable to equilibrium systems. The body radiates less than it absorbs, which would mean that it is cooling, that is, the system is nonequilibrium. In this case, the black radiator will simply heat up more than the white one, since it will absorb more of the sun's energy, which it will also be forced to emit. Do not agree?
            It is possible to deploy this entire system sideways to the sun only by directing the axis of symmetry to the sun. But they don't fly like that in space. This will only be possible when the engine is off. It is interesting that these three petals will warm each other a little, since they are visible from each other. If there were two, it would be a different matter.
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 25 September 2020 13: 51
              0
              Typo: in the third line - it heats up.
            2. Svetlana
              Svetlana 25 September 2020 14: 57
              0
              Quote: Falcon5555
              it is applicable to equilibrium systems.
              In equilibrium systems, a balance is observed: internal nuclear heat release plus absorbed solar radiation is equal to the radiation of the emitter. The transport-energy module Nuclon (containing a nuclear reactor and a black emitter) is an equilibrium system. Otherwise (that is, if the Nuclon module absorbs more than radiates), its nuclear reactor will melt due to overheating of the released nuclear energy. To solve the problem of mutual heating of the emitter petals, supercomputers are used with a special program in the field of radiation heat and mass transfer, built, for example, on the basis of the finite element method.
              1. Falcon5555
                Falcon5555 25 September 2020 17: 01
                -1
                The transport-energy module Nuclon (containing a nuclear reactor and a black emitter) is an equilibrium system.

                Of course. Therefore, the black emitter must be heated more than if it were white. Because black absorbs more sunlight and needs to radiate more heat to stay at a constant temperature while dissipating the same amount of heat from the reactor. One of the consequences of this is that it will not be able to cool the coolant to the same low temperature, and, accordingly, the efficiency of the turbine will decrease. The problem of mutual heating is excluded only so that they do not shine on each other, and I will tell you without a supercomputer and ... a special program from the field of radiation heat and mass transfer, built, for example, on the basis of the finite element method ... I will say, that is, I have already said, how it can be "solved". So you can contact ... if you still have questions for the supercomputer - I will solve them without it and without the finite element method, perhaps, but not for free. smile
                1. Svetlana
                  Svetlana 27 September 2020 07: 14
                  0
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Of course.
                  Let's separate flies from cutlets, i.e. the sun from the emitter. Imagine that there is no sun and radiation from external sources does not fall on the emitter.
                  Also, for simplicity (so as not to be distracted by supercomputers and re-radiation), the emitter is a single flat panel.
                  In this case, it is agreed that at the same temperatures of the emitters, a black emitter with an absorption coefficient of 1.0 has a lower mass than a gray emitter with an absorption coefficient of 0.5?
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  the efficiency of the turbine will decrease.

                  There are no turbines in Nuclon yet, because turbines have big problems with providing many years of continuous operation without maintenance.
                  1. Falcon5555
                    Falcon5555 27 September 2020 13: 07
                    0
                    It's hard to talk about it on the internet. For example, you have now issued many conditions. Apparently they meant that a coolant heated to the same temperature is pumped into them and they emit the same amount of heat. I, too, release a lot of detail in my lyrics and sometimes it can seem like I contradict myself. It's hard to discuss on the internet.
                    Let's get back to your question and try to discuss it. If I understood your problem statement correctly, then I think that they will have to be made approximately the same. Thermal radiation is caused by the thermal movement of atoms, and thermal movement does not depend on what color an object is or how it reflects something. Thermal movement depends only on temperature. It should also depend on the average atomic weight of the material. A material with a lower average atomic weight should have more. In my opinion, thermal radiation depends on how the body reflects, only through the atomic weight and through the temperature change caused by the absorption of radiation or the establishment of another equilibrium temperature. Kirchhoff's law, as I understood it, refers to very specific conditions of stationary equilibrium of objects and radiation, and without the influx of some kind of coolant. Besides, he is probably very "old" and very close.
                  2. Falcon5555
                    Falcon5555 27 September 2020 13: 08
                    0
                    There are no turbines in Nuclon yet
                    How will electricity be generated there?
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 September 2020 22: 31
      0
      Apparently, what we were shown in the photographs is a 200 kilowatt class apparatus and a megawatt one is not yet in the hardware, and therefore 10 is needed for its construction and testing, all the more for it and it will weigh 30 tons now there is no Angara A5B rocket only in 2027 it should fly.
      1. Yuri Zubashkov-2
        Yuri Zubashkov-2 26 September 2020 05: 27
        +1
        Vadim, do not forget that we have the Energiya rocket. The plant in Samara will make it in a year. This is 100 tons, and even on oxygen-hydrogen.
        1. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 1 October 2020 05: 00
          0
          We don't have "Energy". Doing it and testing it again will take just 10 years. Yes and no need, it is from the word at all.
  19. vka
    vka 25 September 2020 04: 08
    0
    Ukhta already captures the spirit - "Phobos-soil" is only twice as large, and also radioactive, Americans smoke on the sidelines !!!!! wassat
    1. agond
      agond 25 September 2020 08: 43
      -1
      Quote: Falcon5555
      Roughly, without going into subtleties - a white body, this is a black body plus reflection.

      And I would try to make the emitter not white or black, but transparent, a quartz glass tube is filled with metal wool through which gas from the turbine passes, obviously the exhaust gas will have a sufficiently high temperature if the temperature is estimated at 1300 * -1500 * during the turbine. Since then the output will be somewhere 600 * C. In general, gas in contact with metal wool will heat it up to glow and it glows through glass, into space (like an incandescent lamp), I suspect that this method has long been known to someone, but this does not implore its effectiveness
      But the turbine may not be, in the background it is possible that there is an MHD generator.
      In appearance, the device, it would be logical to put a shield in front that would shade the emitters, that is, would protect them from fine cosmic dust, because the speed of movement is very high.
      1. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 25 September 2020 13: 16
        0
        Their idea is that the emitter should be mainly solid-state, so that micrometeorites do not release the coolant.
        Where micrometeorites fly - the devil only knows. They probably generally revolve around the sun as plates or around planets as their satellites. The orientation of the ship will depend on many other circumstances. For example, when approaching the target of its flight, it will slow down for a very long time and fly backwards. A dust shield on the front may not help.
  20. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 25 September 2020 09: 58
    0
    Is it possible to cool it with a working fluid for electric propulsion engines? They are already vibrating.
    1. agond
      agond 25 September 2020 15: 42
      -1
      And if we were not explained as it was, like the reactor heats the gas, it turns the turbine and then cools in the radiator, because in the picture there is a long lattice pipe 1.2 m in diameter inside which another is much smaller in diameter, then it is logical to assume that something evaporates in the reactor and is ionized and falls into the inner tube, these ionized vapors are accelerated by the magnetic field from the superconducting magnets located in the outer lattice tube, and the radiators cool the hydrogen coolant for these magnets, naturally, the temperature difference there is different, which is why they are made in black .. thus the device has one ion engine , in the center, and those four at the edges on regular fuel.
  21. AnderS
    AnderS 25 September 2020 15: 56
    -1
    After the phrase
    In the near future, the domestic industry will start developing the promising space complex Nuclon.

    any desire to read this opus has disappeared ... Already, probably, the developers of all these "miracle projects" have lost track of what another miracle they are going to surprise us with. Since the collapse of the Union, nothing has been developed or brought to mind, everyone indulges in empty projects, but the space bosses are sawing loot on these, if I may say so, "projects" ...
    1. Phoenix
      Phoenix 26 September 2020 23: 40
      0
      Soyuz MS was brought to mind, on the ISS in 6 hours. Sun-faced Americans fly 19 hours. Why are you not a success? Or is it different, you need to understand?
      1. AnderS
        AnderS 27 September 2020 14: 49
        0
        Soyuz MS was brought to mind, on the ISS in 6 hours.

        Doesn't it bother you in the name "Soyuz MS"? A digital control system was screwed onto the old Soviet spaceship - an achievement worthy of a "space" power ... Is this now called brought to mind? And the fact that the Americans developed a new spaceship from scratch, which they did not have and which nevertheless flew and returned successfully, well, these are seeds against the background of our global achievement like screwing a new control system to an old ship ...
  22. Uran53
    Uran53 25 September 2020 23: 08
    0
    But the mench has such a question: our space storyteller (Rogozin who), will this truck paint like Khokhloma or not? For everything else, the leadership of Roscosmos seems to have complete clarity and understanding
  23. Yuri Zubashkov-2
    Yuri Zubashkov-2 26 September 2020 05: 23
    0
    It is a pity that I will not live to see this miracle of technology.
  24. AleBors
    AleBors 26 September 2020 09: 46
    0
    I sincerely want to rejoice ... But it's difficult. As if later the project was not closed as unpromising. But they will normally drink money on it ...
  25. Phoenix
    Phoenix 26 September 2020 23: 38
    0
    Well, what nafig drip type? The author did not even look at his photos of their article? Why write I get on? Well, if you want to write an article - collect the material, give yourself an educational program! No responsibility for nonsense ...
    1. agond
      agond 28 September 2020 08: 25
      0
      Quote: agond
      And I would try to make the emitter not white or black, but transparent, a quartz glass tube is filled with metal wool through which gas from the turbine passes, obviously the exhaust gas will have a sufficiently high temperature if the temperature is estimated at 1300 * -1500 * during the turbine. Since then the output will be somewhere 600 * C. gas in contact with metal wool will heat it up to glow and it glows through glass, into space (like an incandescent lamp)


      ... this description of the device of a transparent emitter caused a negative reaction from someone and they gave me a minus ... and what we want.
  26. srha
    srha 30 September 2020 20: 59
    +1
    Any supposedly real technical projects for more than 5 years are the trick of H. Nasreddin.
  27. polk26l
    polk26l 19 November 2020 10: 30
    0
    During the period of the USSR, there was a strict secrecy of new scientific and technological developments, protecting them from enemy intelligence and allowing the production of new weapons and equipment, which put the enemies of the USSR to a standstill! Now, about new and often top secret developments, people begin to talk and write (including photographs) right from the moment of their idea! This is clearly seen in this article! Who needs it? Only to enemies !!! Ideas and technologies must be protected as "the apple of an eye"! And the FSB and counterintelligence, it is necessary to work clearer and more attentively so that such information does not get into the media! It is necessary to carry out a purge of the bureaucratic apparatus, starting with the government, the State Duma, the Federation Council and ending with all employees of the research institutes and the defense industry, for compliance with the state. secrets and state. secrets, leaks and sales of classified information !!! Otherwise, our enemies will create technologies and weapons - before us! And protection from him! It's a shame !, what has the country become ?! Where he began to rule - the "golden calf"!
    Including in the most important area - State protection !!!