Military Review

Troubled 1940. How the Nazis saved Mannerheim

91

Do not fit - they will kill



Despite the fact that Germany, in accordance with the non-aggression pact with the USSR and the secret protocol to this treaty (August 23, 1939), pledged not to "get into" Finland as a sphere of influence of the USSR, in fact, the Third Reich supported its future ally in the war with the USSR. From September 1940, German troops arrived in Finland and were stationed closer to the Soviet borders.

So Germany was not at all neutral during the Soviet-Finnish war (November 28, 1939 - March 12, 1940) and in Finnish-Soviet relations after that war. During negotiations with the chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR V. Molotov on November 13, 1940 in Berlin, Hitler made it very clear about German military-technical assistance to Finland during its war with the USSR.

Troubled 1940. How the Nazis saved Mannerheim

The German Chancellor said that “despite the well-known Soviet-German agreements of 1939, Germany found it difficult to refrain from sympathizing with the Finns during the war. The Finns, showing stubborn resistance, have won sympathy all over the world. "

The Fuhrer was well aware that the population of the Reich, excited by the victory over Poland, was experiencing another wave of psychosis. Excitement about the behavior of the German government in this war only grew every day, and this was clearly determined by agreements with the USSR.


However, Molotov, for obvious reasons, did not ask the Fuehrer to clarify the specific content of these "sympathies" and "excitement."

But this was explained by Galeazzo Ciano, count, one of the leaders of the fascist party, Mussolini's son-in-law and at that time Italian Foreign Minister. In his diary, he wrote that in December 1939 about the real position of Berlin in that war "was told by the Finnish ambassador to Italy: Germany" unofficially "sent to Finland a large consignment of captured weapons captured during the Polish campaign."

In addition, G. Ciano also disclosed such information about which it became reliably known only at the trial in Nuremberg:

On December 21, 1939, Germany entered into a secret treaty with Sweden in which it pledged to supply Sweden with as much artillery and ammunition as it would send Finland from its own stocks. Soon Sweden began, naturally, to supply even more weapons for Finland.


Transit ally


In general, from Germany and German re-export through Italy, Sweden and Denmark, Finland in December 1939 - March 1940 received a total of over a third of the total volume of artillery, small arms and ammunition imported by the Finns during that period.

It is also characteristic that, according to the Finnish historian H. Vainu, “at the end of Molotov’s visit to Berlin, Goering through the Swedish baron K. Rosen informed Mannerheim that the Führer rejected the USSR’s desire to include Finland in his sphere of interests and took it under his umbrella.”

According to the same data, on August 18, 1940, Mannerheim received a short letter from Hitler: "Germany begins direct supplies of arms to Finland and offers unhindered transit of German troops to the borders of Sweden." The Finnish authorities have already allowed such a transit since September. However, the "transit" military units of Germany were sent mainly as close as possible to the borders of Suomi with the USSR.


Moreover, according to a number of Swedish and Danish sources, Germany postponed Operation Fall Weserübung, the capture of Denmark from Norway, from February to April 1940. This was done, surprisingly, in order not to interfere with the planned February - mid-March 1940 military operation of Great Britain and France to help Finland. Indeed, the Second World War after the fall of Poland became somewhat strange.

The Anglo-French operation was planned in the Soviet Arctic, in parallel with it, the Anglo-Turkish-French offensive in the Caucasus... According to the same data, unpublished consultations about a secret temporary truce between Paris and London and Berlin for December 1939 - March 1940 were held in Spain and Denmark.

This, as well as many other things in relation to the contacts of the allies with Nazi Germany, has been repeatedly stated by representatives of the Stalinist-Maoist, or rather, the real Marxist-Leninist Communist Parties of the FRG and Denmark. For example, in 1975 at an international conference of such parties in the Albanian city of Stalin. And it was held in connection with the 30th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany.

Do you have any Finnish relatives?


In turn, Toivo Kivimäki, the Finnish ambassador to Germany, on February 22, 1940, at negotiations with G. Goering, received assurances that Germany would help Finland return any territories that the USSR demanded from the Finns. What happened in 1941 (see: "A question from Helsinki: where are the Kurils and where are the Karelians?").

Nazi Germany has consistently supported Mannerheim's plans since the mid-20s - to extend the Finnish protectorate to all regions of the USSR, at least partially inhabited by Finno-Ugric peoples. And this is almost a quarter and not less than a third of the European part of the USSR and the RSFSR, respectively. And even part of the northern region of Western Siberia.


Since the beginning of the 30s, sabotage and reconnaissance groups, propaganda materials have been thrown into these regions from Suomi, Finnish intelligence agents have been introduced (see: "Great" Finland. Invaders, but not really Nazis? ").

In the spring of 1940, there was a very real threat of "transnational" aggression against the USSR - at least with the indirect participation of Germany. But the then more specific threat of the capture of Helsinki by Soviet troops and the proclamation of the People's Republic of Finland forced the country's authorities, led by the unlucky Marshal Mannerheim, to agree on a peace treaty with the USSR on March 12.

In accordance with its terms, Finland was forced to lose a number of territories adjacent to the USSR, including not only the Karelian Isthmus close to Leningrad and the strategically important Hanko Peninsula, but also the former Russian Arctic port of Pechenga (Finn. Pestamo).

Alas, the attempt of the Finnish revenge together with the allies, the German troops, was not long in coming. The revenge did not take place, but what it cost Leningrad and its residents is all too well known.
Author:
Photos used:
imtw.ru, pooha.net, naukozavr.info, odnastroka.ru
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  1. Far B
    Far B 9 September 2020 05: 28 New
    -6
    A plus for the authors. Otherwise, Mr. Verkhoturov, in his article a month ago "Finland's Resolve", dug out from somewhere the "anti-Finnish position of Germany" during the Soviet-Finnish war. However, Mr. Verkhoturov has his own special, incomparable view of everything. I suspect that all the fault is moonshine based on urine, which will be stronger than Goethe's "Faust".
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 September 2020 07: 59 New
      -2
      You should not, I believe, offend Verkhoturov just because he has his own position, which is different from yours. Could you tell me the ingredients of the moonshine brewed by those who write such headlines (see above)?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 9 September 2020 15: 08 New
        +1
        It will not tell you, because this is a purely personal matter, but rather, even intimate. laughing
      3. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack 9 September 2020 23: 39 New
        +5
        Verkhoturov started out as an active pan-Turkist and supporter of the de-Russification of Siberia, then he was a democrat, a Stalinist, now a Finnophile. At the same time, he always showed aplomb and confidence in his infallibility. Is this all taken together as a "position"?
        The buzzword hype is more suitable for this.
      4. Far B
        Far B 10 September 2020 01: 14 New
        +2
        Yes, pzhalsta, educate yourself: Dmitry Verkhoturov, "Urine in military moonshine." https://topwar.ru/169551-mocha-v-voennom-samogonovarenii.html
        1. AK1972
          AK1972 10 September 2020 16: 37 New
          +3
          I believe that the yield of the product will at least double when using the urine of diabetics.
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 08: 40 New
      +6
      Quote: Dalny V
      from somewhere dug up the "anti-Finnish position of Germany" during the Soviet-Finnish war.

      Hence.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 9 September 2020 14: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Hence

        Something I did not find there anything anti-Finnish. request Blame poor eyesight? wink
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 18: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Poor vision fault

          Maybe. Find the text of the protocol to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and read the first paragraph.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 9 September 2020 09: 47 New
      0
      Quote: Dalny V
      Otherwise, Mr. Verkhoturov, in his article a month ago "Finland's Resolve", dug out from somewhere the "anti-Finnish position of Germany" during the Soviet-Finnish war.

      Most likely - from the official position of the German Foreign Ministry during the SPF:
      The Finnish government's appeal to the League of Nations is the least suitable way of resolving the crisis ... Special emphasis should be placed on the guilt of the British in the Finnish-Russian conflict. Germany was not involved in these events. In your conversations, sympathy should be expressed regarding the point of view of the Russians. Please refrain from expressing any sympathy for the Finns.
      © from the telegram of the Secretary of State Weizsacker to Count Schulenburg
      The Fuhrer does not want to do anything about the Russian-Finnish conflict. Finland's request to us is to mediate before the intervention of the League of Nations. A letter from Schulenburg [the German ambassador in Moscow] about Tanner's proposal has not been sent. The Fuhrer wants no mediation.
      © Halder. 19.01.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX.
  2. avia12005
    avia12005 9 September 2020 05: 28 New
    12
    Now everyone can kick the dead lion - the USSR and Stalin.
    1. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 9 September 2020 06: 07 New
      +1
      I told everyone for a long time - you can kick Lenin now, but when he was in power - no one would dare.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 9 September 2020 06: 55 New
        +7
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        but when he was in power, no one would dare.

        In general, this is a controversial statement - almost all the time when Lenin was in power there was a civil war, so there was a sea of ​​people who wanted to kick. Some even tried to kill ... plus constant disputes both with members of their own party and with other parties of the social democratic wing ..
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 9 September 2020 09: 51 New
          +3
          Quote: mat-vey
          plus constant disputes both with members of your own party and with other parties of the social democratic nature ..

          Uh-huh ... just one discussion on the issues of the Brest Peace is worth something - when Lev Davidovich, contrary to the position taken by the VIL, pushed through his decision "we end the war, we do not make peace, we demobilize the army".
        2. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 9 September 2020 11: 00 New
          -3
          Nothing controversial - factories for workers, land for peasants - with this very slogan he won the revolution.
        3. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 9 September 2020 11: 04 New
          -1
          And I will also answer you, you will die, and I will die, and Lenin will always be remembered.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 9 September 2020 11: 09 New
            +4
            Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
            And I will also answer you, you will die, and I will die, and Lenin will always be remembered.

            How pretentious is that ... but in essence? That there was no civil war? That there was no assassination attempt with a serious wound? That there were no disputes and controversies leading to insults? That's right, everything and everything at once as Lenin said and accepted?
            1. Sergey Averchenkov
              Sergey Averchenkov 9 September 2020 11: 41 New
              -5
              Pathetic, but true. They will forget me, you too, but they will remember him. Essentially ... there was an attempt. I won't lie. I even know the name of who attempted. But these are the White Guards.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 9 September 2020 11: 43 New
                -1
                But this is a lie - "but when he was in power, no one would dare." Just because they tried to kick, he proved his case and, if you want genius ...
                1. Sergey Averchenkov
                  Sergey Averchenkov 9 September 2020 12: 20 New
                  -1
                  You got me.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 9 September 2020 12: 22 New
                    0
                    Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
                    You got me.

                    How did you decide that someone is "catching" you? Maybe I'm just a follower of Plato?
                    1. Sergey Averchenkov
                      Sergey Averchenkov 9 September 2020 12: 23 New
                      -1
                      Can. And no one is catching me, I myself admitted it.
              2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 September 2020 13: 40 New
                -1
                ... But these are the White Guards.
                .
                What a deep knowledge of history. laughing
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 9 September 2020 08: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        I told everyone for a long time - you can kick Lenin now, but when he was in power - no one would dare.

        That's for sure, it's always easier to throw stones from the roof than onto the roof.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 9 September 2020 07: 03 New
      0
      Quote: avia12005
      Now kick the dead lion - the USSR and Stalin -

      Hurry up. They will still live while we are alive.
  3. Deck
    Deck 9 September 2020 06: 12 New
    +6
    From September 1940, German troops arrived in Finland and were stationed closer to the Soviet borders.


    Are there any reliable sources of this information (except for the Soviet Historical Encyclopedia / editorial board, chief editor EM Zhukov.). What parts and where were they located? Thank you in advance.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 9 September 2020 06: 20 New
    +5
    Indeed, the Second World War after the fall of Poland became somewhat strange.
    ... Yeah ... the war was really strange ...
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 September 2020 06: 39 New
    -3
    But the then more specific threat of the capture of Helsinki by Soviet troops and the proclamation of the People's Republic of Finland forced the country's authorities, led by the hapless Marshal Mannerheim, to agree on March 12 to a peace treaty with the USSR.

    What illiteracy: this republic has ALREADY been proclaimed: Moscow radio has announced this yet 1 декабря 1939 года .

    the USSR recognized her and even on December 2, 1939, the USSR and the FDR signed an Agreement of Mutual Assistance and Friendship. Was and was organized by the so-called. The "Finnish" people's army of this "republic".

    But the idea completely failed, disappeared, as never did the "republic" and its "army".
    So it was not the Mannerheims who were unlucky.

    Mannerheim's plans since the mid-20s were to extend the Finnish protectorate to all regions of the USSR, at least partially inhabited by the Finno-Ugric peoples.

    Yes, that's why in 1939 the Finnish army numbered ... 30 thousand people and ... 15 PMV tanks, obviously preparing for the capture of the USSR with its tens of thousands of tanks and a million army. yes lol

    ,
    as well as many other things in relation to the contacts of the allies with Nazi Germany, representatives of the Stalinist-Maoist, more precisely, actually Marxist-Leninist Communist Parties of the FRG and Denmark have repeatedly stated. For example, in 1975. at an international conference of such parties in the Albanian city of Stalin.

    Exceptionally "convincing" sources, yeah lol laughing
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 9 September 2020 08: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      But the idea completely failed, disappeared, as never did the "republic" and its "army".
      So it was not the Mannerheims who were unlucky.

      But the rulers of that "appointed republic" remained, Otto Wilhelmovich Kussinen and his comrades in the Comintern. Very incomprehensible and conflicting personalities. The whole world reacted negatively to him, with the exception of Britain (why). And even Kuusinen's last wife writes in her memoirs: "After all, in fact, he had little interest in the Soviet Union. When building his secret plans, he did not think about the welfare of Russia."
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 9 September 2020 09: 09 New
        -6
        Quote: tihonmarine
        And even Kuusinen's last wife writes in her memoirs: "He, in fact, was of little interest to the Soviet Union. While building his secret plans, he did not think about the welfare of Russia."


        Interesting memoir, isn't it?

        And he gives very precise characteristics of this disgusting Russophobe member of the Central Committee:
        He was always needed by those who owned the power, he knew exactly how to deal with the new master. Therefore, he survived the years of terror.

        Once Kuusinen boasted to me that for his life "Changed the skin like a snake seven times."

        His views changed seven times... During his school years he was devout, prayed a lot, and often went to church. At the University of Helsinki, he shed his "believing skin" and became a patriot and nationalist. But then he started drinking. Then he became seriously interested in the fate of the workers, became a politician, a member of the Social Democratic Party. He was elected to parliament. When the revolution broke out in Finland in 1918, he turned into a Marxist, into a passionate supporter of the world revolution. Later, after our break, he convinced Stalin that the world revolution can only be accomplished by armed means.

        He always kept his nose to the wind, easily cheated on his former comrades.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 9 September 2020 12: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          Interesting memoir, isn't it?

          I liked.
    2. Unknown
      Unknown 9 September 2020 09: 20 New
      11
      why waste the reasons of the Soviet-Finnish. Comrade STALIN never hid them. here is a small excerpt from his speech on the results of that war ........ Since the beginning of the war, we have posed two questions to the Finns - choose one of two: either make big concessions, or we will spray you and you will get the Kuusinen government, which will gut your government. So we told the Finnish bourgeoisie. They preferred to make concessions so that there would be no people's government. You are welcome. It's an amicable matter, we agreed to these conditions, because we received quite serious concessions that completely provide Leningrad from the north, south, and west, and which endanger all the vital centers of Finland.war ....... ..so let's not talk about the people's government and other nonsense. and generally read this speech, and you will find answers to all questions. as they say nothing personal, only the interests of the USSR. how they fought, why there were failures, and what conclusions were made, everything is there.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 9 September 2020 09: 54 New
        -13
        Quote: Unknown
        Since the beginning of the war, we have posed two questions to the Finns - choose one of two: either make big concessions, or we will spray you and you will get the Kuusinen government, which will gut your government.

        He said a lie: since the beginning of the war, the course was IMMEDIATELY taken to the second option: the FDR was created and an Agreement with all concessions of territories.
        "We are not at war with Finland, we have a Treaty of Mutual Assistance and Friendship" - from the statement of the USSR.

        But the "spraying" did not work ....
        Quote: Unknown
        which completely provide Leningrad from the north, and from the south, and from the west, and which endanger all the vital centers of Finland.

        And again, not so: WHERE is this "security" in 1941 and the "threat" to the Finns ?.

        Everything is exactly the opposite
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 9 September 2020 14: 53 New
          +6
          Again, you express your conclusions. Do you consider yourself smarter than I. V. STALIN? you have high self-esteem. take and read what he said about this. and then the course there is taken to create a fdr, and you are carrying other nonsense, as if you yourself were present at the decision-making, and comrade STALIN did not listen to you. map of the coast of the Gulf of Finland, look where the peninsula is hanko, and far from it helsinki. the islands in the gulf, small tyuters, tyuters, seskar, gogland lavensaari all retreated to us, the gulf from Kronstadt to porkkala-udd became ours. and what almost everyone wasted at the beginning of the Second World War is a separate conversation, not related to the topic.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 9 September 2020 16: 16 New
            -11
            Quote: Unknown
            again you express your conclusions. Do you consider yourself smarter?

            you FACTS are given, not conclusions. AND chatter someone's smallest thing.

            And yes, bring documents about it:
            Before the Finns we since the beginning of the war put two questions - choose one of the two: either make big concessions, or we will spray you and you will get the Kuusinen government,

            Let me remind you that Kuusinena production was created on the SECOND day of the war... What are the "questions" to choose from?

            Finnish ruler is just ceased to exist for the USSR .: Molotov::
            "Soviet Union ne is at war with Finland and does not threaten the Finnish people, since on December 2, 1939, he entered into a Treaty of Mutual Assistance and Friendship with the government of the Finnish Democratic Republic (FDR), established a day earlier. From the point of view of the USSR, he is making joint efforts with the FDR to eliminate the hotbed of war created in Finland by its former rulers
            "Former rulers" -What is not clear?
            Quote: Unknown
            listened to the map of the Gulf of Finland coast, see where the hanko peninsula is, and far from it helsinki. islands in the gulf, tyuters small, tyuters, seskar, gogland lavensaari all went to us, the bay from kronstadt to porkkala udd our

            I looked. And -What is the reason for this? Less than zero: what, in, "security" of Leningrad, eh? What is the "threat" to Finland?

            Everything is exactly the opposite!
            1. Unknown
              Unknown 9 September 2020 17: 13 New
              +4
              yes it may have been created before the war, what difference does that make? the goal is to push the boundaries, and it is achieved, with or without kuusenen. They could also have imprisoned their own in 44, but they considered that it was advisable to make peace with Mannerheim, who was striving for peace, and understood that further resistance would lead to the complete occupation of the proud suomi by Soviet troops, with all the ensuing consequences. and so he declared war on the Germans, and peace with us, thereby saved the lives of thousands of our soldiers. but they could have hanged him in the central square of petrozavodsk for all his affairs. and which is better? Comrade STALIN was a pragmatist with the interests of the state above all else.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 September 2020 09: 10 New
                -3
                Quote: Unknown
                Yes, it may have been created before the war, what does it change? the goal is to push the boundaries, and it is achieved, with Kuusenen

                Proves your lies and to about 2 options.

                There was ONE option - with kuusinen and it failed

                Quote: Unknown
                Comrade STALIN was a pragmatist with the interests of the state above all else.

                I will note that this did not save Leningrad from the terrible blockade, and without the winter war it would not have happened.
                1. Unknown
                  Unknown 10 September 2020 11: 01 New
                  +1
                  proves nothing. You probably don't understand Russian well? what are you talking about the fdr government, take and read here
                  I. Stalin. ON THE WAR WITH FINLAND (published ...)
                  petroleks.ru ›Stalin› 14-18.php
                  I. Stalin. ABOUT THE WAR WITH FINLAND (published for the first time). Speech. at a meeting of the commanding staff. .. if you don't get it, use a translator. Learn the history of Finland, then you will understand the attitude of the Finns towards Russia. they were not rosy, not before the Winter War, not after. Petersburg was in the blockade because 41 years were not particularly good for us, and the general strategic situation was not in our favor, plus the poor command of the northwestern front, and the KBF. All this has already been discussed at VO, and it is not worth return to it. if you want to discuss the blockade, the flag is in your hands, go to the archive of the v.o and there as much as you like.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 September 2020 12: 39 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Unknown
                    proves nothing. you probably don't understand Russian well? what are you saying about the fdr government

                    I'm talking about FACTS that contradict your CONCEPTS
                    Quote: Unknown
                    I. Stalin. ABOUT THE WAR WITH FINLAND (published for the first time). Speech. at a meeting of the commanding staff. ...

                    AGITKI-me least of all interested.
                    Quote: Unknown
                    then you will understand the attitude of the Finns to Russia. they were not rosy

                    And the Swedes did not. AND?
                    Quote: Unknown
                    Peter was in blockade because 41 was not particularly good for us

                    He ended up in a blockade because there was a "victory" to ... ensure the security of Leningrad in 1940
                    1. Unknown
                      Unknown 10 September 2020 15: 47 New
                      +1
                      you only convinced me of one thing, you don’t understand the Russian language, if it’s not a secret where you come from? as I understand you don't want to read, say that these are agitation and my speculation, and then repeat your nonsense about kuusenen and other nonsense. a simple truth does not reach you, it did not work out with this comrade, but a clown with him, we will handle it ourselves, and we coped ... that's the whole truth. and all this nonsense that you have piled up here, I have heard enough since 1989, from everyone, korotich, Yakovlev, Svanidze, etc. here is under their manner of conducting a dialogue, and you adapt. about the blockade and its reasons, as already advised in the archives of V.O.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 September 2020 16: 01 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Unknown
                        you only convinced me of one thing, you don’t understand the Russian language, if it’s not a secret where you come from? as I understand you do not want to read, say that these are agitation and my speculations

                        You will learn to write in RUSSIAN at first, "understander", otherwise you will understand something.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        repeat your nonsense about kuusenen and other nonsense. simple truth does not reach you, it didn't work out with this comrade, but a fool with him, we can handle it ourselves, and we did it.

                        1. This you already sing OTHER songs (see YOURSELF at the beginning)

                        2. Didn't manage - see the blockade of Leningrad: WHERE is its guaranteed "security ?!
                        Quote: Unknown
                        that's the whole truth. And all this nonsense that you have piled up here, I have heard enough since 1989, from everyone, short, Yakovlev, Svanidze, etc. here is under their manner of conducting a dialogue, and you adapt. about the blockade and its reasons, as already advised in the archives of V.O.

                        Don't give a damn about all of the above, see the FACTS!
                      2. Unknown
                        Unknown 10 September 2020 17: 28 New
                        -1
                        written figs with what. and yet it seems to me that you are not Moldovan for an hour? talked to you, and something familiar from the time of service in S.A breathed.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 September 2020 09: 17 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Unknown
                        spelled fig why

                        belay lol
                        Quote: Unknown
                        and yet it seems to me that you are not Moldovan for an hour? talked to you, and something familiar from the time of service in S.A breathed.

                        not. who cares?

                        On the topic, nothing to say?
                        Then bye.
                      4. Unknown
                        Unknown 11 September 2020 14: 26 New
                        +1
                        Yes, no difference, normal lads. but sometimes simple truths are difficult to reach. Russian is not native, hence the problems in understanding. but it's okay, it will come over time. and on the topic everything has already been said, what to pour from empty to empty.
      2. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 10 September 2020 11: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Let me remind you that Kuusinen Prospect was created on the SECOND day of the war. What are the "questions" to choose from?


        Olgych.
        What do you want the Stalinists to recognize that Comrade. Dzhugashvilli created a puppet government for Finland on the second day of the war, that the NKVD allegedly provoked shelling of Soviet territory (a pretext for war), that the war was aimed at annexing Finland to the USSR :)
        They don't admit it in real life. Because next we will have to admit that the Red Army received a bloodbath and the likelihood of war with Great Britain, France and Dzhugashvilli was forced to be limited to the initial requirements, having paid the irrecoverable losses of 95348 people, and 5395 prisoners


        So many generations were brought up on lies that the Finnish War was right for the USSR and did not want to admit that the Finnish people defended their independence.
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 10 September 2020 16: 14 New
          0
          about the photo, interesting, but after all, there is a war, and there is a war on it. today you take prisoner, but here fate is a villain once, and you yourself stand in front of an enemy photographer, with the look of a described poodle
          This is how it happens. As for the fact that they called me a Stalinist, I have no complaints against you, I am even flattered, that man was great, and his deeds too. but no one is immune from mistakes, even an outstanding person, and when you begin to take an interest in the affairs of I.V. STALIN. according to documents, correspondence, you understand how he differs from the current pygmies in power.
          1. Dmitry V.
            Dmitry V. 11 September 2020 12: 21 New
            0
            Quote: Unknown
            great was that man, and so was his work. but no one is immune from mistakes, even an outstanding person, and when you begin to take an interest in the affairs of I.V. STALIN


            As a statesman, Joseph Dzhugashvilli was an outstanding figure - undoubtedly outstanding.
            As a politician, he rose through the destruction of the old party guard, strengthened through terror against dissent
            As a person - touchy, vindictive, vain, paranoid suspicious (which has developed over time).
            As a mediocre military man, his intervention in the actions of the General Staff led to many thousands of losses and a number of military disasters - only after 1942, when Dzhugashvilli began to listen to the military, leaving control and decisive functions for himself, the situation improved.
            As a personnel specialist - controversial, one leapfrog at the General Staff of 1939-1941 says a lot.
            Well, it is not necessary to shoot the highest military leaders - even if they are not personally devoted to "Comrade Stalin."

            Memoirs of the same General A. Gorbatov - "Years and Wars", show this difficult time for our country
            Knocking out talented military personnel is the paranoia of Joseph Dzhugashvilli. From which he did not get rid of after the war.
            The Fuehrer only came up with this after the assassination attempt.
            1. Unknown
              Unknown 11 September 2020 17: 59 New
              0
              the so-called old guard was not white and fluffy, as they are now trying to expose it. and the leaders were still the same, the same Bukharin, Zinoviev, Kamenev, and I will not list others. there were enough jambs. and for less they put them against the wall. If they came to power, then they also put I.V. STALIN against the wall, this is the nature of revolutions. Take France - Robespierre, Danton, Babeuf and others ended their lives on the guillotine. but there the terror of the Jacobins is not put up for worldwide discussion. respect their history, and although NAPOLEON pushed France to the handle, with its endless wars with all of Europe, we do not discuss it there at all, great, period. I also read General Gorbatov, about Comrade STALIN has no bad words. the trials that fell to him during his arrest and imprisonment evoke sympathy, but not surprise. the person who, at least once in his life, got into the local police department even on a trifling matter, quickly lost the illusion of legality in the punitive authorities, be it the USSR, or the Russian Federation or even Germany. that's the very nature of cops. but then, and at a later time in the USSR, it was possible to achieve legality, so the prosecutor's office supervised the authorities, and cops and others could ring out for a long time, then today in R.F. there is no such. now what they say about the character of STALIN is not true. it is worth reading Marshal of Aviation Golovanov, Rokossovsky or even Churchill and British Ambassador Kerr, as well as Hopkins, there is a different opinion. You just have to read this ... Correspondence of the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR with the Presidents of the United States and the Prime Ministers of Great Britain during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945 ... there are a lot of interesting documents that speak about the consistent and persistent defense of the interests of the USSR, during and after the war, tsarist Russia left a not-so-good General Staff and generals as a legacy to the USSR. PMV clearly showed that they are worth. all painters, without exception, had the experience of the civil war. There was no one to learn from. It is impossible to seriously compare the brilliant German General Staff, which unleashed two world wars and fought with almost the whole world, with our 30s. What generals were, we had to deal with such. many, instead of studying military science, scribbled denunciations against each other, and that was also the case. it took a Khalkhin-gol, and the winter war we are discussing, then long, difficult for us three years of war, so that our glorious commanders appear. And this is undoubtedly the merit of Comrade STALIN. from a variety of mediocrity, choose smart ones. this is work with personnel, be it the army, or industry and the economy. Finally, a quote. I know that when I am gone, more than one tub of dirt will be poured on my head, but I am sure that the wind of history will dispel all this .........
              1. Dmitry V.
                Dmitry V. 15 September 2020 13: 23 New
                +1
                Quote: Unknown
                so that our glorious commanders appear. and this is undoubtedly the merit of comrade STALIN.


                I do not agree.
                One document:
                In addition to the unpreparedness of the country for defense and the incomplete preparedness of the Armed Forces for the organized repulsion of an enemy attack, - we didn’t have a full-fledged High Command. There was Stalin, without whom, according to the then existing order, no one could make an independent decision, and I must say truthfully - at the beginning of the war, Stalin was very poorly versed in operational and tactical issues. The headquarters of the Supreme High Command was created belatedly and was not prepared to practically take over and carry out qualified control of the Armed Forces.

                The General Staff and the People's Commissariat for Defense were disorganized from the very beginning by Stalin and deprived of his confidence.

                Instead of not hesitating to organize a leading group of the Supreme Command to control the troops, Stalin ordered: on the second day of the war to send the Chief of the General Staff to Ukraine, to the Ternopil region to help the Commander of the southwestern front in leading the troops in the battle in the Sokal, Brody area; Marshal B.M. Shaposhnikov to send to the aid of the commander of the western front in the Minsk area, and a little later the 1st Deputy Chief of the General Staff, General N.F. Vatutin, to the north-western direction,

                Stalin was informed that this should not be done, since such a practice could lead to disorganization of the leadership of the troops. But from him came the answer: "What do you understand in the leadership of the troops, we will do without you." The consequence of this decision of Stalin was that he, not knowing the details of the situation at the fronts, and being insufficiently competent in operational matters, gave unqualified instructions, not to mention incompetent planning of major countermeasures, which in the current situation had to be visited.


                Draft speech by Georgy Zhukov at the 1956 Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU.

                With this interpretation, Jugashvilli's intervention in command and control did more harm in 1941 than good, according to most military historians.
                1. Unknown
                  Unknown 16 September 2020 20: 22 New
                  0
                  Zhukov has repeatedly changed his mind about Comrade STALIN, for the sake of the current moment. The document you cited, Zhukov wrote to please Khrushchev, which characterizes him as a dishonest person ....... In the leadership of the armed struggle as a whole, J.V. Stalin was helped by his natural mind, experience of political leadership, rich intuition, wide awareness. He knew how to find the main link in a strategic situation and, seizing on it, to outline the ways to counter the enemy, to successfully carry out this or that offensive operation.

                  Undoubtedly, he was a worthy Supreme Commander ......... he said this too, but later, when he was writing his book. and when did he tell the truth? ...... finally, the recollection of Vasilevsky, who in his position most of all communicated with the supreme ............ “... I had good relations with N.S. ... Khrushchev and in the first post-war years. But they changed dramatically after he did not support his statements that I.V. Stalin did not understand operational and strategic issues and unqualifiedly directed the actions of the troops as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. I still cannot understand how he could assert this. As a member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the party and a member of the military council of a number of fronts, N.S. Khrushchev could not help but know how high the authority of the Headquarters and Stalin was in matters of military operations. He also could not fail to know that the commanders of the fronts and armies had great respect for the Headquarters, Stalin and valued them for their exceptional competence in leading the armed struggle ... ”Vasilevsky, A.M. Business of a lifetime / A.M. Vasilevsky. - M .: Politizdat, 1978 .-- S.
  • zenion
    zenion 9 September 2020 21: 43 New
    +1
    So the Finns were not alone going to fight. All the imperialist army was also there. You have forgotten how cockroaches got into Russia. And the Bolsheviks saved Russia twice: during the intervention and in the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War. If not for the Bolsheviks, then according to Hitler's plans, several million slaves should have remained for this time. Many would not be on the lists. Still, Stalin and the Bolshevik party were bad. Instead of saying thank you, they spit on their story.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 23: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: zenion
      And the Bolsheviks saved Russia twice: during the intervention

      Before the Bolsheviks

      After the Bolsheviks.

      Quote: zenion
      in World War II, World War II



      Well done for saving, of course.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Unknown
        Unknown 10 September 2020 08: 17 New
        +1
        that's how the Bolsheviks saved their country first, and then the rest, as needed. that's what you need to remember, well, your card will fit one to one with this .......
        ....... here are the saviors of Russia, represented by the Liberal Democrats, profiled the results of the Second World War.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 10 September 2020 08: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: Unknown
          This is how the Bolsheviks saved their country in the first place

          Saved?

          Losses of the country in the war with Germany without the Bolsheviks 1914-1917? Under the Bolsheviks 1941-1945?

          Quote: Unknown
          here are the saviors of russia, represented by the liberal democrats

          Liberals and democrats are a member of the CPSU Central Committee since 71, Gorbachev and a member of the CPSU Central Committee since 81, Yeltsin, did I understand you correctly? Which one is a liberal and which one is a democrat?
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Unknown
            Unknown 10 September 2020 09: 47 New
            +1
            and what did you not save? my brother was born in 1958, I in 1964, whole generations were born after the war. whose merit.?
            what is the birth rate in the USSR and what is in Russia feel the difference. you can look at the former republics will be the same. As for the losses, so the wars were different. The last war is a war of destruction. therefore the losses are great ........... A. Hitler
            The Slavs must work for us, and if we no longer need them, let them die. Vaccinations and health care are unnecessary for them. Slavic fertility is undesirable ... education is dangerous. It is enough if they will be able to count to one hundred ... Every educated person is our future enemy.
            All sentimental objections should be discarded. We need to rule this people with iron determination. and here is another figure ........ G. Himmler
            Next year we will finally conquer those territories of European Russia that have not yet been occupied ... The principled line for us is absolutely clear - these people should not be given culture. I want to repeat here word for word what the Fuehrer told me. It is quite enough: firstly, so that children in schools remember road signs and do not throw themselves under cars; secondly, so that they learn the multiplication table, but only up to 25; thirdly, so that they learn to sign their last name. They don't need anything else .... you need to understand what kind of war our grandfathers fought, and not compare losses. hunchback, Yeltsin, were never communists and statesmen, but were careerists, self-seekers, who by chance came to power, the list can be continued, it will include many current characters who are now in power.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 10 September 2020 11: 42 New
              +1
              Quote: Unknown
              whole generations were born after the war. whose merit.?

              Well, if they were born from the Bolsheviks - then the Bolsheviks, if from the Komsomol and non-party members - then, respectively, the Komsomol and non-party members.
              Quote: Unknown
              what is the birth rate in the USSR and what is in Russia feel the difference

              Judging by your schedule, in the USSR, the birth rate was falling down the cliff, in the Russian Federation it was knocked out for some time and is gradually recovering.

              Actually, this is a meaningless schedule, but so far.
              Quote: Unknown
              G. Himmler

              Yes, Himmler wrote a lot of nonsense. On the other hand, it would be much more difficult for him to do all this if the forces subordinate to him were on the Dvinsk (Daugavpils) - Pinsk - Chernivtsi - Fokshany line, as under Kerensky, and not Volkhov - Rzhev - Voronezh - Stalingrad - Grozny, as under the Bolsheviks.

              For your reference.
              Losses of PMV / PMV, mln.
              Germany + Austria-Hungary 4/8
              France 1,5/0,6
              Britain 1 / 0,4
              US 0.1/0.4
              Russia / USSR 3 / approx. 30 (excluding Poland)

              Comments who saved whom will be?
              1. Unknown
                Unknown 10 September 2020 17: 16 New
                0
                you are not careful, Himmler repeated what Hitler said. He quoted one of the quotes above. there is a desire to read everything .. the schedule for you is a dark night. The birth rate in the USSR began to fall only in 1987, with the beginning of Gorbachev's perestroika. Kerensky would have ruled farther, where the Germans stood, it’s even creepy to imagine. in 1917, the former imperial army was incapable of combat,
                especially after the order number-1 issued by the interim government. There was a good article about losses in WWI, find it, and make calculations there, this article is about something else.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 9 September 2020 07: 38 New
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    Yes, that's why in 1939 the Finnish army numbered ... 30 thousand people and ... 15 PMV tanks - clearly preparing for the capture of the USSR with its tens of thousands of tanks and a million army

    Finnish armored vehicles by November 30, 1939 consisted of 32 Vickers Mk E tanks and 32 Renault FT tanks during the First World War ... another source According to official data, on the eve of the “Winter War” in the Finnish armed forces were:

    34 tank "Renault FT" (part without weapons)
    32 tanks "Vickers" 6 tons E (most are unarmed, 13 tanks participated in battles with the Red Army)
    1 Vickers Carden Lloyd wedge (used for training purposes until 1941)
    1 light tank "Vickers Cardin Lloyd" (used for training purposes until 1943)
    1 light tank "Vickers" 6 tons B (armed with the original 47-mm short-barreled cannon, did not participate in the "Winter War")
    6 armored vehicles Landsverk-182

    As they say, having lied once ...
    Quote: Olgovich
    USSR with tens of thousands of tanks and a million army.

    All in all, by the beginning of hostilities in the tank units of the Leningrad Military District, there were 108 T-28, 956 BT, 848 T-26, 435 T-37/38 and 344 armored vehicles. During the war, the number of combat vehicles steadily increased.
    In the third source, we see that the tanks are downplayed
    divisions, personnel, guns and mortars, tanks, aircraft
    финская армия 14 265 000 534 26 270
    Red Army 24 ≈ 400 000 1915 ≈ 1476

    the truth is very rarely taken into account and such a moment
    The paramilitary militia units, or suojeluskunta, numbered 111. Well, let's get back to
    Quote: Olgovich
    in 1939 the Finnish army consisted of ... 30 thousand people
    see what they write here https://runivers.ru/doc/d2.php?SECTION_ID=6755&PORTAL_ID=6754
    By the beginning of the war with the USSR ("Winter War" - Talvisota) - by November 30, 1939, through a general mobilization, the strength of the Finnish Armed Forces was brought to 300 people (000% of the country's population). well, you think someone did not write 0 ...
    1. Captivity
      Captivity 9 September 2020 08: 06 New
      -3
      Sorry, but the numbers of the Finnish army really look scanty. 30-40 tanks and supposedly they wanted to attack the USSR, it's ridiculous. Therefore, Olgovich is rather right in this case.
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 9 September 2020 10: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: Captivity
        Sorry, but the numbers of the Finnish army really look scanty. 30-40 tanks and supposedly they wanted to attack the USSR, it's ridiculous.

        They attacked with fewer tanks ...
        № 1The first Soviet-Finnish war (1918-1920) - hostilities between the White Finnish troops and units of the Red Army on the territory of Soviet Russia from March 1918 to October 1920
        № 2Second Soviet-Finnish War (1921 — 1922)
        started: 6 November 1921 the invasion of Finnish volunteer units in the RSFSR to the territory of Karelia. No war was declared.
        culminated in: 21 on March 1922 with the signing in Moscow of an Agreement between the governments of the RSFSR and Finland on taking measures to ensure the inviolability of the Soviet-Finnish border.
        That is, these two cases are normal, but that's why it outrages you № 3Soviet-Finnish War (1939 — 1940)
        began: November 30, 1939, as stated in the official message, “by order of the Red Army High Command, in view of new armed provocations from the Finnish military, the troops of the Leningrad Military District at 8 am on November 30 crossed the Finnish border on the Karelian Isthmus and in a number of other districts ".
        culminated in: 13 of March 1940 of the year with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty between Finland and the USSR the day before.
        probably those that are not the Finns attacked?
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 9 September 2020 09: 15 New
      -19
      Quote: Fitter65
      By the beginning of the war with the USSR ("Winter War" - Talvisota) - by November 30, 1939, through a general mobilization, the number of the Armed Forces of Finland was brought to 300 people (000% of the country's population). well, you think someone did not write 14 ...

      Someone does not understand that army with 30 soldiers early 000 (and before that), AFTER the "peace" proposals of the USSR and was brought to 300 soldiers by the end of 000, to protect against them.

      It's the same with tanks.

      PS At least SOMETHING, you can know yourself?
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 9 September 2020 10: 19 New
        +4
        Quote: Olgovich
        At least SOMETHING, can you know yourself?

        Yes, know who's stopping you.
        Quote: Olgovich
        Someone does not realize that an army with 30 soldiers at the beginning of 000 (and before that)

        Well, you probably don't know what you are writing. at first they just blurted out that the Finns had an army of 30, and then you start to get rid of that at the beginning of the year. By the way, in August 000, exercises were held in Finland, as it were, to repel the attack of the USSR, by the way, the mobilization also began not at the end of November, but in advance ...
        Quote: Olgovich
        It's the same with tanks.

        That is, the tanks were also mobilized by the end of November? ..
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 9 September 2020 10: 24 New
          -13
          Quote: Fitter65

          Yes, know who's stopping you.

          Words are addressed to YOU. I wrote to YOU, not myself. Didn't get it?
          Quote: Fitter65
          Well, you probably don't know what you are writing. at first they just blurted out that the Finns had an army of 30, and then you start to get rid of that at the beginning of the year.

          you are given the indisputable FACTS (again): in 1939 the Finnish army numbered 30 thousand people

          And only AFTER "peaceful" ultimatums-grew

          The fact that you do not know the elementary and it became a revelation for you is your problem.
          Quote: Fitter65
          That is, the tanks were also mobilized by the end of November? ..

          Bought.
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 9 September 2020 14: 33 New
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            you are given indisputable FACTS (again): in 1939 the Finnish army numbered 30 thousand people

            undeniable fact
            At the beginning of 1939, the Finnish Armed Forces numbered 37 people, including 000 officers.
            Already reduced by 7000,
            On June 6, 1933, the Finnish Defense Ministry placed an order in Great Britain for three vehicles - the Vickers-Carden-Loyd Mk VI tankette, the Vickers Mk E model B light tank and the Vickers-Carden-Loyd tankette model 1933. the order was 8 pounds, the delivery time was August 410 - January 1933. In 1934, another floating Vickers-Carden-Loyd tankette model 1933 was delivered to Finland, but after tests in August - September 1931 it was not purchased and returned. The acquired tanks were used for training tankers: the Vickers-Cardin-Loyd Mk VI tankette until 1933, and the Vickers-Cardin-Loyd tankette model 1941 until 1933.

            On December 31, 1937, a separate tank company was reorganized into a separate armored company (Er.Pans.K.).

            1938 Finland starts building tank forces. In the UK, 34 Vickers 6 tons were ordered. But before the start of World War II, only 28 vehicles were delivered.

            October 1939 (according to other sources, December 5, 1939) Bronerota was reorganized into an armored battalion (Pans.P.). The battalion consisted of five companies. The 1st company was formed on December 5, 1939 and included 14 Renault tanks, the 2nd company also had 14 Renault tanks. At the time of formation in the 3rd company there were only 2 - 3 tanks "Vickers" without weapons, and the 5th company had 12 - 16 "Vickers" in the same condition. The only combat-ready unit was the 4th company, which had 22.01.1940 armed Vickers tanks on 6/10.02.1940/16, and on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX the company already had XNUMX armed vehicles.
            how many were combat-ready is another song, you included all the tanks that were produced in the USSR before 1939 in your count.
            Quote: Olgovich
            USSR with tens of thousands of tanks and a million army.
        2. Dmitry V.
          Dmitry V. 9 September 2020 13: 30 New
          0
          Quote: Fitter65
          Well, you probably don't know what you are writing. at first they just blurted out that the Finns had an army of 30, and then you start to get rid of that at the beginning of the year. By the way, in August 000, exercises were held in Finland, as it were, to repel the attack of the USSR, by the way, mobilization also began not at the end of November, but in advance.


          Poorly read Manerheim?
          For twenty years, the nightmare of the General Staff was faced with the question of how our covering forces could, in the event of a war, keep the defenses on the Karelian Isthmus, while the main forces of the field army had time to take their positions. This fear was generated, first of all, by the fact that the Russians, due to the proximity of Leningrad, might unexpectedly concentrate large forces on the border, and, in addition, we expected that their aviation would greatly interfere with the mobilization and concentration of our army.

          However, now the starting situation was completely different - I wanted to shout that the first round was behind us. We were able to transfer both the covering troops and the field army to the front on time and in excellent condition. We got enough time - 4–6 weeks - for the combat training of the troops, their acquaintance with the terrain, to continue the construction of field fortifications, to prepare for destructive work, as well as to lay mines and organize minefields. It was invaluable that the sense of unity among the units developed in a completely different way, as it would generally happen in troops mobilized in a hurry and thrown into battle right there.

          Those. the mobilization and smoothing of the mobilized units of the Finnish army began 4-6 weeks before the invasion of the Red Army - exactly what Olgovich is talking about.
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 9 September 2020 15: 20 New
            +5
            Dmitry Vladimirovich
            Poorly read Manerheim?

            Yes, not weak, just don't see the point. Just why did Mannerheim's memoirs come to be considered the ultimate truth?
            Dmitry Vladimirovich
            For twenty years, the nightmare of the General Staff was faced with the question of how our covering forces could, in the event of a war, keep the defenses on the Karelian Isthmus, while the main forces of the field army had time to take their positions. This fear was generated, first of all, by the fact that the Russians, due to the proximity of Leningrad, might unexpectedly concentrate large forces on the border, and, in addition, we expected that their aviation would greatly interfere with the mobilization and concentration of our army.

            That is, when they invaded the RSFSR on November 6, 1922, it did not frighten him. By the way, without any suggestions or ultimatums,
            Dmitry Vladimirovich]
            In terms of the number of machine guns .... the Russian division, on average, was twice ... superior to the Finnish.
            Until 1939, in the USSR there was only one submachine gun, PPD, which was put into service in 1935, until 1939 (when it was discontinued), according to some data, just over 4000, according to others, about 5000. At the end of 1939, the production of this The PP has been renewed. And the most interesting thing is not all PPD at the time of the beginning of the war were in the Leningrad Military District. and what did the unfortunate Finns have with this weapon? The submachine gun "Suomi" was put into service in 1931 (!), About the number of troops in the army, let's keep quiet just look at these numbers [
            Despite the hostilities against the USSR, many Suomi were sold or delivered to countries that were neutral or associated with the Third Reich:
            5 weapons for Switzerland,
            5500 for Bulgaria,
            3000 for the Wehrmacht,
            1250 for Croatia,
            less than 1000 for Denmark, Estonia and Sweden

            To Estonia - 485 units in 1937, to Bulgaria - 5505 units. in 1940-1942 ... The question is, what was it that a submachine gun with the proud name "Suomi" was supplied to its own army? So again, past the basin.
            Dmitry Vladimirovich]However, now the starting situation was completely different - I wanted to shout that the first round was behind us. We were able to transfer both the covering troops and the field army to the front on time and in excellent condition. We got enough time - 4–6 weeks - for the combat training of the troops, their acquaintance with the terrain, to continue the construction of field fortifications, to prepare for destructive work, as well as to lay mines and organize minefields. It was invaluable that the sense of unity among the units developed in a completely different way, as it would generally happen in troops mobilized in a hurry and thrown into battle right there.
            [b] [/ b] Ie. the mobilization and smoothing of the mobilized units of the Finnish army began 4-6 weeks before the invasion of the Red Army - exactly what Olgovich is talking about. [/ quote] Uh-huh, straight type in the top a month before the war, but the fact that on August 7-12 in Karelian On the isthmus, Finland held large military exercises, which practiced repelling an attack from the USSR, with partial mobilization of reservists before the exercises, after the exercises the mobilized remained in the units, we of course will modestly keep silent. As well as about Shutskor, which, no matter how much ...
            1. Dmitry V.
              Dmitry V. 10 September 2020 10: 53 New
              -2
              Quote: Fitter65
              Just why did Mannerheim's memoirs come to be considered the ultimate truth?

              Well, you sweep aside "otherworldly sources" - you do not have at least a third of the picture (ideally, a third of ours, a third of the enemy and a third of independent sources - this is how the most objective picture for historians develops, and the existing contradictions give a reason to figure out who is more ... lies).
              Well, okay - an adult uncle, what to teach: our scout, their spies :))

              Quote: Fitter65
              Until 1939, the USSR had only one PPD submachine gun adopted in


              As for the "submachine guns", I mean in general an automatic weapon (the translator translated it as an automatic weapon) - its saturation in the Red Army was many times greater.
              We take the standard units:
              automatic rifle simonov 1936
              ABC-36
              During the Finnish war of 1939-1940. on one of the ABC-36 rifles, the spring burst, feeding the cartridge from the magazine into the receiver. Experts who went to the front found that the spring did not burst in combat conditions (the rifle was hanging at the entrance to the room in a frost of -40 ° C). Later it was found that the spring steel used in the production of the spring at a temperature of −40 ° lost strength by 20 - 30%

              Tokarev 1938 self-loading rifle SVT-38
              Degtyarev infantry - DP-27 1927

              And I did not even mean the PPD - since it was used by the command staff, the crews of armored vehicles.
              Anyone knows that:
              The PPDs that remained in the warehouses and the border guards had were urgently transferred to units that fought in Finland [5] (in addition to the already available in a large number of automatic weapons of other types)


              So there is no point in arguing that the standardly staffed infantry division of the Red Army not only outnumbered the Finnish one by 3000 people, but also in automatic weapons.
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 10 September 2020 13: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
                So there is no point in arguing that the standardly staffed infantry division of the Red Army not only outnumbered the Finnish one by 3000 people, but also in automatic weapons.

                Yes, I do not care what the Finns were armed or not armed with. If they didn’t want it for good, it’s their problem. Somehow, no one is outraged by the US invasion of Grenada, but it’s generally interesting to compare the ratio in terms of the number of personnel, weapons, their quantity and quality ... these are his problems, he can cry that these are the bad Russians, they did not allow the construction of Great Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Poland ... Who else wanted to become great at the expense of Russia? So the tears of the broken Mannerheims, Mansteins, Guderians on the pages of their memoirs do not interest me at all, especially since from your comments only one Karl Statute functions, but where are the quotes from the memoirs of the opposite side? And I repeat once again, the tears of the broken Mannerheims, Mansteins, Guderianov on the pages of their memoirs do not interest me at all. I like the expression more attributed to the Romans -"right or wrong but this is my fatherland"Therefore, at this stage, I am finishing the discussion, how will we begin to discuss the US war crimes against humanity, or the crimes of the same Finn on the territory of the USSR - here I will connect to youhi
                1. Dmitry V.
                  Dmitry V. 10 September 2020 13: 31 New
                  0
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  Yes, I do not care what the Finns were armed or not armed with.

                  Yes, I see.
                  Few people love the USA in the world.
                  Russia and even more so.
        3. Dmitry V.
          Dmitry V. 9 September 2020 13: 42 New
          -1
          Quote: Fitter65
          By the way, in August 1939, exercises were held in Finland, as it were, to repel the attack of the USSR, by the way, the mobilization also began not at the end of November, but in advance ...


          What does Karl Gustav write in his memoirs about mobilization?
          In terms of the number of machine guns and mortars, the Russian division, on average, was twice, and in terms of the number of artillery, it was three times superior to the Finnish. If we take into account that the Russians still had separate tank units, a solid artillery reserve of the Supreme High Command, as well as an unlimited amount of ammunition and air supremacy, the disparity becomes much more pronounced.
          .
          The grouping of the field army at the beginning of the war was as follows:

          Army of the Karelian Isthmus, consisting of 6 divisions, brought together into two army corps - 2nd and 3rd.

          The Commander-in-Chief's Reserve (6th Division), stationed in the Simola-Kaipiainen-Lumyaki sector; he erected [263] fortifications and was ready to repel an enemy landing on the coastline between the cities of Vyborg and Kotka.

          4th Army Corps (two divisions) on a front about 100 kilometers north of Lake Ladoga.

          On the remaining part of the front, about 1000 kilometers long to the Arctic Ocean, only individual companies and battalions defended themselves. They became the backbone of the task forces that we eventually created - mainly from reserve units assembled in reinforcement concentration centers.

          In the province of Pohjois-Pohyanmaa, there was the backbone for the formation of the 10th division - two infantry regiments, the 25th and 27th, with fairly tolerable weapons. They were also part of the commander-in-chief's reserve.

          Replenishment of the field army and the formation of new units was the task of the three divisions, whose headquarters were located in Rihimäki, Oulu and Pieksämäki. They were only partially armed.
  • sidoroff
    sidoroff 9 September 2020 08: 42 New
    -1
    to accuse Germany of violating secret protocols to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact? because "secret protocols" do not exist in nature !!! this is the alphabet of the "patriotic community".
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 09: 32 New
    12
    What is surprising is the level of hack-work of the modern imaginary Suslovs. Almost the entire text of the article is about the relations of the Reich with Finland in the fall of 40 and beyond, when Soviet-German friendship began to decline. In some mystical way, these facts are attached to the Winter War.

    And the reality is pretty simple. With his idea of ​​a fix about the collection of German lands, which grew up as a result of WWI, various small countries (which did not exist during WWI), Hitler, in exchange for the USSR's "understanding" of his actions in Poland, agreed to surrender the former lands of Ingushetia in Poland and the Baltic states to the USSR and Romania. At that moment, such a deal seemed fair and symmetrical to him.

    However, something went wrong. The USSR was stuck in Finland, Hitler resolved his issues with Poland instantly, and peace in the West at the beginning of spring seemed very, very possible. In such cases, on the one hand, the USSR could find itself in a state of war with Britain and France, while Germany could well declare that the pact was no longer in her interests. Let me remind you that by that time the USSR had not yet, hmm, liberated the Baltic states and Moldavia, so their "protection" by the Reich was quite possible (and no one would have raised objections, by and large). The situation with Japan in the spring of 40 is also not settled. The war with Finland had to be torn out without delay.

    Only Ciano's testimony speaks in favor of the version about Hitler's treachery. It has long been disproved. Yes, Finnish diplomats did tell here and there that the issue with the Germans had been resolved in order to create an exaggerated impression of himself, but in fact Hitler fulfilled his obligations to the USSR. The weapons purchased in Italy went to Finland not through Germany, but around Europe, and therefore was late.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 9 September 2020 09: 35 New
    +7
    Nazi Germany has consistently supported Mannerheim's plans since the mid-20s.

    Only with the help of a time machine. In what year did the Nazis come to power in Germany? wink
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 09: 49 New
      +5
      Well, Nazi Germany supported Mannerheim not from the mid-20s (just in the mid-20s they were a little not up to Mannerheim), but right from 1918. The main Nazi at that time was a certain Karl of Hesse-Kasselsky, judging by his surname - either a Pole or a thief in law, depending on how the emphasis is put.

      Of course, there is some terminological complexity: in the 18th year, neither Nazism nor fascism was invented. However, since both Nazism and Fascism are extreme manifestations of imperialism (according to the Soviet version), the aforementioned Karl will do - it's hard to say whether he was a Nazi, but he was an imperialist for sure.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 9 September 2020 09: 55 New
        +2
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Well, Nazi Germany supported Mannerheim not from the mid-20s (just in the mid-20s they were a little not up to Mannerheim), but right from 1918. The main Nazi at that time was a certain Karl of Hesse-Kasselsky, judging by his surname - either a Pole or a thief in law, depending on how the emphasis is put.

        Hmmm ... isn't it Gustav Adolph Joachim Rüdiger von der Goltz?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 10: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          isn't it Gustav Adolph Joachim Rüdiger von der Goltz?

          This one is from Russophobes.
  • BAI
    BAI 9 September 2020 09: 40 New
    -1
    The revenge did not take place, but what it cost Leningrad and its residents is all too well known.

    It is known that the memorial plaque for Mannerheim was hung. They took it off by force. And Stalin personally struck Mannerheim from the lists for hanging. Actually, the title should sound like this: "How Stalin saved Mannerheim."
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 10: 15 New
      +8
      Quote: BAI
      Stalin personally struck Mannerheim from the hanging lists.

      Seriously? This is when they brought such lists to Comrade Stalin for approval?
      1. BAI
        BAI 9 September 2020 11: 35 New
        0
        During secret negotiations between the USSR and Finland on the latter's withdrawal from the war, Stalin through diplomats conveyed the condition to the Finnish government: "We will only accept such an agreement, behind which Marshal Mannerheim will stand." When Herta Kuusinen was tasked with compiling a list of the top Finnish war criminals, she drew up. Mannerheim was also on this list. Stalin crossed out Mannerheim with a red pencil and wrote: "Do not touch."

        The other day on "Zvezda" there was a program dedicated to this very issue - "Why Stalin pardoned Mannerheim." The authors, with the words "we were the FIRST to get access to the declassified archives and for the FIRST time will show the public these documents" discussed this question - "Why?" The very fact of Stalin's personal pardon of Mannerheim was not questioned and was accepted as an obvious fact that did not require proof and discussion.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 11: 55 New
          +3
          What an interesting story. What about the rest of Hertta's list? Have they all been shot or what?
          1. BAI
            BAI 9 September 2020 12: 16 New
            -1
            They hanged 6, pardoned 2.
            In the program, this was discussed in detail, but I was at a distance, the TV worked as a background so that it would not be boring, I did not remember the names (except for Mannerheim).
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 9 September 2020 12: 54 New
              +5
              Quote: BAI
              They hanged 6, pardoned 2.

              8 convicts received from 2 to 6 years in prison, Ryti, former president, 10 years. In 49, he was released (the rest - even earlier).
  • Alex013
    Alex013 9 September 2020 10: 27 New
    +2
    In the article a poster of Magnushevsky 1944
  • iouris
    iouris 9 September 2020 12: 11 New
    -2
    Quote: "In the spring of 1940, there was a very real threat of" transnational "aggression against the USSR - at least with the indirect participation of Germany." End of quote.
    SIC! It is for this reason that Stalin did everything so that in the USA the USSR could not be accused of aggression against Germany.
    And there was no need to save Finland. The USSR's demands on Finland were of a limited nature: to move the border away from Sank ..., I apologize, from Leningrad and the highway along which allied aid came during the war. Moreover, Finland received territorial compensation for twice the territory.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 September 2020 15: 28 New
      -1
      ... and the route along which allied aid came during the war.

      What allies in 1939 ?? Eventual opponent # 1 - Britain. This, like, Comrade Stalin had in mind the routes of the future Lend-Lease, eh?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 9 September 2020 13: 11 New
    +9
    Another agitation from a creative duo. They are competing with Kharaluzhny, it seems who will suck more from the finger.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 9 September 2020 14: 04 New
    -1
    The attitude towards the Winter War is unequivocal.
    The USSR showed aggression, no matter how justified the demands for the lease of Hanko and the distance of the border from Leningrad were, as well as fears of the invasion of German troops into the territory of Finland.
    1. iouris
      iouris 9 September 2020 14: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
      The attitude towards the Winter War is unequivocal.

      Of course. And the attitude to the war of the USSR against Nazi Germany (plus the rest of Europe minus Britain) cannot be called unambiguous.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 September 2020 15: 24 New
    0
    ... However, Molotov, for obvious reasons, did not ask the Fuehrer to clarify the specific content of these "sympathies"

    And what, it was required to explain why the world is not on the side of the aggressor, but sympathizes with the victim of aggression? And Molotov does not care about likes and dislikes.
  • Alexander Kopelevich
    Alexander Kopelevich 24 September 2020 13: 45 New
    0
    The author, "Nazi Germany from the mid-20s"? What is it like? Or "In accordance with its terms, Finland was forced to lose a number of territories adjacent to the USSR, including not only the Karelian Isthmus close to Leningrad and the strategically important Hanko Peninsula, but also the former Russian Arctic port of Pechengu (Finn. Pestamo)." - Petsamo was returned only in 1944, which is enshrined in the Paris Treaty of 1947. Deal with the facts first, you have confusion, everything else also begins to not inspire confidence. By and large, after the occupation of Denmark and Norway by the Germans, Finland had no options but to cooperate with Hitler, since she found herself in a complete economic blockade (along with Sweden) and she was simply threatened with starvation. That is, these events do not follow in any way from the 20s - 30s and would have happened regardless of what happened then. The country never had a definite political orientation, and its "general line" constantly fluctuated after each change of leadership. Which, in general, is a common thing for small countries
  • Alexander Kopelevich
    Alexander Kopelevich 14 October 2020 13: 32 New
    0
    Finland, in reality, has always led a dodgy policy and was not particularly oriented towards anyone - according to the situation, it was Germany, then the Entente and its followers, then the USSR, now the EU. This is natural for a small country located in a geopolitically important area. So, in statements about particularly warm feelings for Nazi Germany, the author went too far. After the "Winter War" and the occupation of Denmark with Norway, the country (as, by the way, Sweden) found itself in an economic blockade, it simply had no other way out except cooperation with Germany, otherwise it was threatened with famine. And the revanchist feelings overlapped by themselves. However, when in 41 it became clear that there would be no blitzkrieg, these feelings quickly disappeared, giving way to the desire to get out of the war with minimal losses, Finland was already held in alliance with Germany by exclusively named economic reasons.
    As for the "Greater Finland" shown in the picture, Mannerheim had no such plans. These are the dreams of completely frostbitten Finnish nationalists, to which he, due to his Swedish origin, did not belong. There was Wallenius' plan for the annexation of Eastern Karelia and the Kola Peninsula, which Mannerheim undertook in 1918, but was quickly removed from command of the army, and remembered his "oath of the sword" only in 1941. In the aforementioned 1920s, Mannerheim was no one at all - a military pensioner and an unfortunate politician who miserably lost the presidential election precisely because of "insufficient nationalism"