"Great" Finland. Invaders, but not quite Nazis?


They "fell out" of Hitler’s pocket



In Finland, direct participation in Nazi aggression against the USSR is preferred to be accurately called complicity, but more often - "the continuation of the Winter War." Bearing in mind, of course, the dramatic events of 1939-1940. Until the spring of 1944, public events were regularly held in Suomi, often with the participation of Marshal Mannerheim and his officials, in support of restoring Finland's "legitimate" borders.

In this former province of the Russian Empire, which was essentially autonomous, in this not-so-great country, to defeat which the mighty USSR needed incredible efforts, they considered themselves infringed on by the Soviet-Finnish armistice on March 12, 1940. With the height of World War II, Finland’s claim to greatness, of course, at the expense of the “big neighbor,” only grew.

"Great" Finland. Invaders, but not quite Nazis?

However, the implementation of such claims had to be paid literally. And pay complicity in Nazi aggression. And not just complicity, but also the implementation of the same occupation policy in the occupied territories. What is the “new order” in Finnish for three years of the Finnish occupation, the inhabitants of the distant Soviet North also had a chance to learn.

It is well known that only by the summer of 1944, after the final breaking of the Leningrad blockade, did Soviet troops enter the line of the former (until 1940) Soviet-Finnish border. And the authorities of Suomi were able to realize in time the consequences that the manic claims of the country on the border line that existed between 1918 and 1939 would lead to.

It is clear that immediately it was necessary to drop the claims almost to the entire North-West of the USSR. A number of Finnish politicians nominated them already in the early 1920s, when the Soviet leadership transferred the port of Pechenga to the newly formed Finland on the coast of the Barents Sea. By the way, this was done not only and not only for “reconciliation” with Helsinki - even in the conditions of NEP Pechenga could become an impossible project for the RSFSR and the USSR.

It is characteristic that Marshal Mannerheim personally did not participate in the proclamation of the "Great Finnish" claims, but, of course, they could hardly have been voiced without his sanction. This did not stop Hitler from considering Finland as something like a “pocket” ally, who simply would not go anywhere in anticipation of rich prey.

Such an assessment found a place even in the notorious "feast talks" of the Führer, which meticulously gathered one of his stenographers with an absolutely non-Aryan name and surname - Henry Picker.


It is not surprising that Finnish requests during the war quickly spread also to a number of western regions of East Karelia and the Murmansk region, to half of the Ladoga water area and even to border areas in close proximity to the northern capital of the USSR. The border then, as you know, passed only 26-40 km from Leningrad and near Kronstadt.

When the inevitability of the defeat of Nazi Germany became a fact, Finnish diplomats managed to conclude a new truce with the USSR (September 1944). This happened with the mediation of Sweden, which was expertly stimulated by the notorious Alexandra Kollontai, who earlier managed to help the Swedes to remain “neutrals”.

It’s a paradox, but the Finns, unlike Romania and Bulgaria, and even Hungary, were actually allowed to evade the “mandatory” participation in the war with Germany. It is possible that the personality of the Finnish leader himself, a brilliant officer of the Russian imperial army, Baron Karl Gustav Mannerheim, regent, and then the President of Finland, played a role in this. The main thing for Moscow in the last months of the war was the establishment of unlimited good-neighborly relations with Finland.


Because of this, by the way, back in 1940, Soviet politicians pragmatically abandoned the project “People’s Republic of Finland” by analogy with the Baltic Limitrophs. Mannerheim's loyalty to Finland also dictated the need to maintain good relations with Sweden. Politically and economically, they were extremely important for the USSR, providing also a problem-free northern flank.

Ghost of Nuremberg in Helsinki


A few days ago, in the Main Investigative Department of the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation, a criminal case was opened on the grounds of a crime under Art. 357 of the Criminal Code (genocide). It was established that after the invasion of the Karelian-Finnish SSR, the command of the occupation forces and the occupation administration was created in August 1941 - October 1943. at least 14 concentration camps.


The camps were intended for the maintenance of the ethnic Russian population, living conditions, food standards and labor duties in which were incompatible with life. The largest concentration camp with the most severe regime was in Petrozavodsk (over 14 thousand people in 1942-1944). And for the entire period of the occupation of the region, at least 24 thousand people constantly stayed in these camps, of which at least 8 thousand died, including more than 2 thousand children.

At the same time, the main causes of death, contrary to the assurances of a number of Finnish historians and politicians, were not "natural". Over 7 thousand prisoners of war (out of 8. - Auth.) Were buried alive, shot, put to death in gas chambers. In total, almost 50 thousand people passed through the “Finnish” camps, among them more than 60 percent were Russians, Belarusians, and Ukrainians. The Finnish occupation authorities considered the Slavic contingent a “non-national population” and subjected them to particularly cruel repression.

For a long time, practically no information about the “Finnish” concentration camps appeared in print. Why? Ville Pessi, the long-standing leader of the Finnish Communist Party, who led it from 1944 to 1969, in 1983, shortly before his death, released data on how the Soviet leadership informed the Finnish government in 1957 that Moscow was not insisting on continuing to investigate Finnish crimes occupiers during the war.

This happened immediately after the abandonment of the long-term lease of the naval base at Porkkalla-Udd west of Helsinki. Moreover, as noted by V. Pessi, already in the last two years of Stalin's life in the USSR, publications on this sensitive topic were minimized. By the mid-50s they were completely "stopped". At the same time, almost nothing was reported in Soviet historiography about the participation of the Finnish army in the blockade of Leningrad.

Moreover, the Soviet media for a long and stubborn silence about the German-Finnish military operations in Karelia, the Murmansk region and the Baltic. And Finland's support for the German occupation of Norway and Denmark, which lasted from 1940 to 1944, was hushed up in the USSR from the mid-50s. The local press immediately fired the editors-in-chief.

This, however, was trying to inform not only Ville Pessi. Pavel Prokkonen, who twice headed the Council of Ministers of the Karelian-Finnish SSR, had similar assessments of events, and with the demotion of the republic to autonomous, he became chairman of the Supreme Council of Karelia. Prokkonen never ceased to object that the topic of Finnish complicity in Nazi aggression had been leveled by the leadership of the USSR — even in Karelia — since the mid-50s.


However, from Moscow, the leadership of Karelia, as well as the Murmansk and Leningrad Regions, was repeatedly "exposed" for periodical publications on this subject in local, even small-circulation media. The appeal to Moscow regarding the establishment of commemorative signs in honor of prisoners of Finnish concentration camps in the USSR also declined or remained without clear answers.

According to Pavel Prokkonen, such a “line of conduct” was due to Moscow’s desire to prevent Suomi from drifting into NATO orbit and making Helsinki’s official territorial claims against the USSR at all costs. It is interesting that the Karelian communist has repeatedly called the famous Soviet-Japanese declaration of 1956 a precedent in this sense, where Moscow expressed its readiness to transfer the South Kuril Islands of Shikotan and Habomai to Japan.

The fact is that a number of the eastern regions of pre-war Finland were, recall, the original Russian (Russian) territories transferred to it in 1918-1921. in order to avoid a military alliance between Suomi and the Entente. And the aforementioned post-war "benefits" from the USSR, Finland was obliged to the desire of Moscow at all costs to maintain friendly Soviet-Finnish relations. The Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Assistance, signed in Moscow in 1948, was prolonged in 1955, 1970 and 1983 - until the dissolution of the USSR.

In such a coordinate system, Helsinki’s policy during the years of the Great Patriotic War needed to be hushed up. Accordingly, Moscow did not officially react, and still do not, react to periodic outbursts of allegedly public campaigns for the return of Finland to the “lost” Pechenga (North Russian, with the Finnish name Petsamo), western part of East Karelia and most of the Karelian Isthmus (together with 60% water area of ​​Lake Ladoga, including Valaam).

"Prodigal Children" by Mannerheim


Meanwhile, the influential Finnish "Ilta-Sanomat" (Helsinki) of April 20, 2020, surprisingly, actually recognized the very fact of the brutal occupation policy of the Finnish authorities, and even the fact that the investigative actions of the IC of the Russian Federation are quite justified:

Joseph Stalin had a clear idea of ​​the Finnish atrocities even during the war before the Soviet troops captured the territories occupied by the Finns (namely occupied. - Auth.). At a conference in Tehran in late 1943, Stalin described the behavior of the Finns in the occupied territories as cruelly as the Germans.



However, what follows is an excuse that cannot be called primitive:

The attitude of the Finnish occupiers towards the population of the conquered territories differed from the attitude of the Germans in that almost half of the 83 inhabitants of East Karelia, that is 000, were with Finnish roots. They received better treatment than Russians in the area.

Needless to say, it’s strongly said ... But it turns out that those camps "were based on fears that the Russian population could take part in the guerrilla war and destruction in the rear of the front. Instructions for collecting the population with Nefin roots in internment camps were given in July 1941. "

Nevertheless, the Finns have to admit what they did:

The assimilation of Finnish concentration camps (which means concentration camps? - Auth.) Into death camps is completely incorrect, although the infamous (that is, infamous in Finland. - Auth.) Classification by ethnicity was practiced.

At the same time, "mortality in internment camps", which is recognized, "in the occupied East Karelia was ... significantly higher among the rest of the population of the region." The explanation for this is more than objective: "The reason was the poor nutritional situation." Just?!

What is called, with a considerable creak, but the Finns still have to call their policy of occupation in 1941-1944. But it’s hard to say how the mentioned actions of the RF IC will affect Russian-Finnish relations. In any case, Finland has already signaled its withdrawal from Moscow-friendly neutrality and already in 2014 joined the anti-Russian sanctions of the United States and its allies.

Therefore, a "reminder" of the Finnish occupation policy in the USSR could turn into an answer in the form of, say, "semi-official" territorial claims - at least in terms of propaganda ...
Author:
Photos used:
libmir.com, ptzgovorit.ru, lusana.ru, from the authors archive
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  1. Pessimist22 7 May 2020 05: 08 New
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    Manerheim had to be hung, just in case, and the Finnish army as prisoners of war was to be stolen for the restoration of Leningrad, for 15 years in hard labor.
    1. Basil50 7 May 2020 06: 30 New
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      You are right.
      Finns frankly lie. Finns in the twentieth century FOUR TIMES declared war on the Soviet Union and all declarations of war were AFTER the outbreak of hostilities. This is all besides the weekly provocations at the border.
      Today, it seems like it’s not * fashionable * to recall the destruction of RUSSIAN PEOPLE regardless of their social status or political convictions in Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, Finland. Officially, the Finns killed 30000 (thirty thousand) people, but how many were destroyed in reality? The Finns still lie and deny ethnic cleansing.
      About the exorbitant cruelty of the Finns
      they are not embarrassed by their atrocities and even flaunt, but only among their own. They even justify this with the * inner spirit * then ...., but in reality they are only when they are confident in impunity.
      Had a chance to make sure
      It’s NOT BOLSHEVIKI who cut the north of RUSSIA to the finals, it started under the Romanovs, and the temporary ones formed the finishes * independence *.
      1. Olgovich 7 May 2020 09: 04 New
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        Quote: Vasily50
        It’s NOT BOLSHEVIKI who cut the north of RUSSIA to the finals, it started under the Romanovs, and the temporary ones formed the finishes * independence *.

        1. Russian Pechenga and its district from the composition Volodsk province of Russia it was the Bolsheviks who gave it to the Finns, making Finland ... an ocean power claiming to be part of the Arctic

        2. The provisional government canceled even a limited declaration of independence in internal affairs and occupied the princedom parliament by the troops. And the Finns RECOGNIZED the legitimacy of Russia's actions.

        3. Independence was given to them only by the Bolsheviks. like the independence of Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, etc., and in every way proud of it. fool

        And the Finns turned to CSSand not to the Bolsheviks.

        PS is it difficult to open a textbook for grade 4? request
        1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 7 May 2020 09: 15 New
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          Here it is, the designer girl struck there from where they did not wait. This time, Usinsk was treacherously and without declaring war. On a banner, a Finnish soldier Uni Klemet Halonen from Utsjoki, Lapland (born 1910), enjoys the sunshine with his reindeer in Lapland, May 1944. Suomi M / 31 submachine gun with an attached box-shaped four-row magazine with a capacity of 50 rounds.
          Finn recognized his father on a banner

          https://www.komi.kp.ru/daily/27126/4212113/
          1. Fat
            Fat 7 May 2020 10: 14 New
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            Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            the designer girl struck there from where they did not wait. This time, Usinsk was treacherously and without declaring war. On a banner, a Finnish soldier Uni Klemet Halonen from Utsjoki, Lapland (born 1910), enjoys the sunshine with his reindeer in Lapland, May 1944. Suomi M / 31 submachine gun with an attached box-shaped four-row magazine with a capacity of 50 rounds.

            Yeah, one "girl" is to blame! There is a complete set of either morons or provocateurs. Starting with the customer, who approved the sketch, ending with the installers who posted this banner. no
            1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 7 May 2020 10: 43 New
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              This is not a mistake by stupidity, it is a deliberate lie. Each time they find a new bottom and break through.
              1. Pavel57 8 May 2020 23: 58 New
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                Manerheim memorial plaque from the same row.
            2. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 12: 46 New
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              Yeah, one "girl" is to blame! There is a complete set of either morons or provocateurs. Starting with the customer, who approved the sketch, ending with the installers who posted this banner. no

              And what about the installers? belay
              Your memetic Tajik needleworker - should understand the software 100 years ago?
              1. Fat
                Fat 9 May 2020 13: 08 New
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                I have never met migrants among advertising installers. You probably know very little about the production of outdoor advertising ...
                1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 13: 28 New
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                  Well, good, well - let there be a Russian installer. Should he understand the software of the times of "King Peas"?
        2. Alexander Suvorov 7 May 2020 09: 42 New
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          Olgovich (Andrey)
          Moreover, the Finns turned to the US,
          And this is "XTO"? laughing What kind of animal are you?
        3. podymych 7 May 2020 11: 58 New
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          My deeply respected monarchist. It is hardly worth citing school textbooks as an argument. They are so different now. And please do not make patriots and angels of white sort. The fact that they were ready to trade in Russia wholesale and retail, they repeatedly recognized in their memoirs, and even the fact that they were not inferior to Trotsky and Co. in the horrors of terror.
          Better Sholokhov, no matter what they say about his authorship, no one has written anything about the "Citizens" nightmares. They let the gin out of the bottle, and then for many years they came to their senses. Now to avoid it. The weapon is not at all right, and the whole planet will not go to tar-tarara for long
      2. Basil50 7 May 2020 09: 27 New
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        olgovich.
        You should KNOW that the entire North of Russia was given to the Swedes by the Romanovs for military assistance during the accession. It was then that GREAT NOVGOROD became a Swedish colony, and since there were not enough Swedes on all lands, the Swedes began to settle including Finns in the RUSSIAN NORTH.
        Until 1917, Ladoga and Onega lakes and much more were under the administration of the Principality of Finland.
        The fact that the Finns tried to capture during the Civil War and then, so the times were then difficult for the RSFSR. It was necessary to give something, because there were a lot of bandits and ideological parasites in the rear
        Temporary for the sake of their own legitimacy, many things were given to the nationalists, including independence. The fact that then they quarreled with the nationalists, so - * the independence engine has already left. *
        1. Olgovich 7 May 2020 11: 08 New
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          Quote: Vasily50
          You should KNOW that the entire north of Russia was given by the Romanovs the Swedes for military assistance during the accession.

          you just wrote that the north of Russia FINNAM gave:
          Quote: Vasily50
          This is NOT BOLSHEVIKI cut finals north of RUSSIA, it started under the Romanovs,

          now ... to the Swedes? belay lol
          again, I am returning you to the 4th grade textbook, where it is chewed that in Roman Russia not only the north of Russia was Russian, but also the southern, south-western and south-eastern possessions of Sweden, and she was driven by Russia to the rest of Swedish territory on the peninsula, where it trembles, frightened. still neutral.

          Quote: Vasily50
          The fact that the Finns tried to capture during the Civil War and then, so the times were then heavy for the RSFSR .. accounted for and give away

          "You can’t (manage without gifts) - don’t torture, yes!"
          Do you know such a wonderful proverb?
          Quote: Vasily50
          Temporary for the sake of their own legitimacy a lot of things to nationalists gave, including independence. The fact that then they quarreled with the nationalists, so - * the independence engine has already left. *

          Lying. negative

          Ignorance. request

          Again, to the textbook 4 classes on the history of Russia: ALL independence declared exclusively after Thief and thieves stupid decrees and on their basis.

          Today’s borders of Russia (and this is her borders of the 17th century) were installed and officially fixed Bolsheviks with 1917 to 1940

          It's just FACTS

          PS I strongly recommend making the textbook a reference book, because it’s not solid to not know the history of YOUR Homeland hi
          1. Alexander Greene 8 May 2020 07: 22 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            It's just FACTS

            These are not facts. This is a distortion of facts. Better answer why your king Alaska America sold a cheap price.
      3. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 00: 48 New
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        Finns in the twentieth century FOUR TIME declared war on the Soviet Union and all declarations of war were AFTER the outbreak of hostilities.

        Three times — once the RSFSR and two times — to the USSR. And in all cases - after the outbreak of hostilities. The outbreak of hostilities without declaring war The Red Army Yes.
    2. Deck 7 May 2020 06: 42 New
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      Oh, sorry for you then was not! Well, you would have explained to Joseph Vissarionovich as it should!

      and to hijack the Finnish army as prisoners of war for the restoration of Leningrad, for 15 years in hard labor.


      All 2476 people?

      The number of Finnish soldiers and officers in the hands of the Red Army during the 1941-1944 war. (in September forty-fourth Finland decided to withdraw from the war), according to the NKVD, amounted to 2476 people. The largest number of Finnish prisoners of war was concentrated in the Vologda Oblast. 1972 Finnish soldiers and officers passed through camps, camp departments, camps and special hospitals. 158 people visited the camp No. 1806 in Cherepovets and its camp departments in Vologda, Ustyuzhna, Chagoda, 150 people visited the camp No. 79 in Gryazovets and 87 people in the camp at Vozhega station
      1. Operator 7 May 2020 11: 57 New
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        After surrender, all the Finnish army and militia automatically became prisoners - about 1 million people.

        They would obviously be enough to lay the Transarctic railway from Vorkuta to Chukotka, in the extreme case, they could send a labor army from the remaining Finns to help.
        1. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 00: 42 New
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          "Sturgeon - trim" - twice as much. laughing And where does this light, uncomplicated assurance come from, that if Finland were to demand unconditional surrender, would they surrender before May 8, the 45th? These are not Italians, not Romanians and not Bulgarians.
    3. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 00: 35 New
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      Manerheim had to be hung, just in case, and the Finnish army as prisoners of war was to be stolen for the restoration of Leningrad, for 15 years in hard labor.

      Then it would be necessary to fight with the Finnish Defense Forces and the Army Group “Lapland” of the Wehrmacht - not deTsSki after and September 1944 - even before the Victory Day. And it would cost the Union blood so much that it would clearly surpass the moral satisfaction of "penal servitude for the restoration of Leningrad." We should not forget that the sum of the fighting qualities of a soldier - the Suomi army was then the best in the world. And in fighting spirit - the second (after the Japanese Imperial Army).
      PS Comrade Stalin I.V. - was clearly much smarter than you ... bully
  2. Sniper Amateur 7 May 2020 05: 15 New
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    In Finland, direct participation in Nazi aggression against the USSR is preferred to be accurately called complicity, but more often - "the continuation of the Winter War."

    And this is the "Continuation War". Sow the wind ... The Finns tried to take revenge. Without choosing either funds or a partner for this. And just wanting to slaughter Russian burdock at any cost and not reckoning with the consequences. All is fair. Did you expect to get away without a fight? But not fartanulo!
    Well, the Finns themselves "say that they often say" (I was familiar with only one Finn, so I can’t guarantee reliability for 200%) that their people are equally endowed with courage (there’s something else - I don’t remember - the word that the Finns consider to be literally translated into other languages) so cruelty. Moreover, such a thorough, pedantic cruelty.
    1. Maki Avellevich 7 May 2020 05: 43 New
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      Quote: Sniper Amateur
      Well, the Finns themselves "say that they often say" (I was familiar with only one Finn, so I can’t guarantee reliability for 200%) that their people are equally endowed with courage (there’s something else - I don’t remember - the word , which the Finns consider to be literally translated into other languages), and cruelty. Moreover, such a thorough, pedantic cruelty.

      everyone has enough cruelty, it’s necessary to create conditions clearly. but courage is more difficult.
      1. Sniper Amateur 7 May 2020 05: 51 New
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        That is yes. But it is specifically among the Finns - not to take courage. They can fight against the baht alone. But this is from the stories. But the fact that the lad held back for almost an hour (and held back!) One-on-one reinforced platoon of "ghosts" (whom we called for pressure and perseverance by the "Russian" leibstandart, by the way) is a witness to me myself. So - Finns have the courage not to occupy even such a really strong opponent as the Russians.
        1. tatarin1972 7 May 2020 09: 59 New
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          You don’t know the story, browse the Internet, doesn’t that tell you such a surname as Sirotinin? And there were many such cases in the Red Army, SA, RA. One more question for you, Tallinn or Brovary?
          1. Alexey RA 7 May 2020 10: 43 New
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            Quote: tatarin1972
            You don’t know the story, browse the Internet, doesn’t that tell you such a name as Sirotinin?

            Sirotinin? Or Nikolai Andreevich Kim (Chong Phung), commander of the 2nd battalion of the 409th infantry regiment of the 137th infantry division? wink
          2. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 13: 19 New
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            You don’t know the story, browse the Internet, doesn’t that tell you such a surname as Sirotinin? And there were many such cases in the Red Army, SA, RA. One more question for you, Tallinn or Brovary?

            Read. It annoys a little that even in which regiment and division he served - it is not known exactly, although the "fascists" killed by him were counted to the last man.
            Old Petrovtsy - different villages, towns and cities of Donetsk region. (including the town of Stalin-Donets) - Kiev.
            Threat. The 72nd Center sends friendly greetings to the "united media group" Patriot ". laughing
            1. tatarin1972 10 May 2020 10: 29 New
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              "July 17, 1941. Sokolnichi, near Krichev. In the evening, an unknown Russian soldier was buried. He alone stood by the cannon, shot a tank column and infantry for a long time, and died. Everyone was amazed at his courage ... Oberst in front of the grave said that if all the soldiers of the Fuhrer fought like this Russian, then they would have conquered the whole world. Three times shot volleys of rifles. Still, he is Russian, do you need such admiration?
              - From the diary of Chief Lieutenant of the 4th Panzer Division, Friedrich Hönfeld.
              “In the afternoon, the Germans gathered at the place where the Sirotinin’s gun stood. We, the locals, were also forced to come. I, who knew German, was the main German of about fifty with orders, tall, bald, gray-haired, ordered to translate his speech to the local "He said that the Russian fought very well, that if the Germans fought like that, they would have taken Moscow long ago, so the soldier should defend their homeland - Vaterland ..."
              - testimony of Olga Verzhbitskaya, a resident of the village of Sokolnichi.
              1. Sniper Amateur 12 May 2020 20: 25 New
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                I remind you that I wrote:
                Read. It annoys a little that even in which regiment and division he served - it is not known exactly, although the "fascists" killed by him were counted to the last man.
    2. Deck 7 May 2020 05: 52 New
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      I was familiar with only one Finn, so I can’t guarantee reliability for 200%)


      And you read more about this time, there are a lot of materials in the public domain now, including archives, maps, photographs, military magazines, the memories of the participants on both sides.
      The word is Sisu, something akin to our "scrapie." “Sisu” is translated as “determination”, “inner core”, “perseverance”, this word also means the ability to stoically endure difficulties.
      1. Sniper Amateur 7 May 2020 06: 09 New
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        Well - I'm not "a historian of the Russian and Soviet-Finnish wars after all ..." smile
        But for the "storyboard" - thanks. good "inner core" - this reflects well. good These girls and guys can even in our venal age: "I've lived / lived here all my life - and I won’t go anywhere from here!" - Take a bag of crackers and a bag of cartridges - and fight to the last - regardless of the odds. Even if their (chances) are 0.00. Moreover - it may be an old old woman. Respect!
    3. Olgovich 7 May 2020 06: 19 New
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      Quote: Sniper Amateur
      And just wanting to slaughter Russian burdock at any cost and not reckoning with the consequences. All is fair.

      judging by the territorial losses, the Finns received, and very well, the Finns.
      920 years
      What honestly? and stealing the original Russian territories in 1918-1920, taking advantage of the weaknesses and mistakes of the Soviet leaders and ... consider them their own, was it fair? belay
      1. Sniper Amateur 7 May 2020 06: 48 New
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        "What honestly?" Original Finnish this "native Russian territory." You tried to select in 1939 - you got a burdock (but the Finns purely formally lost at the same time, yes). The Finns - not UZBAGo - played in the "Continuation War". And again, tactically and promptly polished your burdocks, but again, by the end, they lost at the same time. OK, what a problem! - they’ll go for the third time. Will it fail again? - So they will go for the fourth, fifth time - and so on. For these are the Finns, for ... Like my long-dead (rip) Kamikaze rats - not stopping at anything - even a cat rushing five times more. And therefore - always winning ...
        1. Olgovich 7 May 2020 07: 19 New
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          Quote: Sniper Amateur
          What honestly? “Original Finnish this“ original Russian territory. ”You have tried take away in 1939 - got in burdock
          did not try, but taken away his own. stolen by the Finns in 1918 = 1920
          Quote: Sniper Amateur
          And again tactically and promptly polished your burdock, but again, by the end, we lost

          And again we returned the territory of Russia
          Quote: Sniper Amateur
          what problems! - they’ll go for the third time.

          and even less will be fmlandland. yes lol
          Quote: Sniper Amateur
          So will go for the fourth, fifth time, etc.

          then finland will disappear altogether request yes

          so they go -only on yes yes
          1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 10: 24 New
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            Quote: Sniper Amateur
            what problems! - they’ll go for the third time.

            and even less will be fmlandland. yes lol
            Quote: Sniper Amateur
            So they will go for the fourth, fifth time, and so on.

            then finland request yes will disappear altogether

            In this case, you can break through their subscription? wink Aw, the “cool” boys are now not the 39th in the yard and Finland is not Ukraine. All of them will fit in for them. And fit in to the full.
            1. Olgovich 9 May 2020 10: 39 New
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              Quote: Sniper Amateur
              Punch their sneak in this case - can you?

              belay You are on a Russian site where they say in Russian
              Quote: Sniper Amateur
              Aw, the “cool” boys are now not the 39th in the yard and Finland is not Ukraine.

              definitely much less yes
              Quote: Sniper Amateur
              All of them will fit in for them. And fit in to the full.

              Duc, remember the "writers" lol -wrote in 38g for the Czechs lol , for Poles in 39 lol, for the Danes, Norwegians and others in 40g lol , for Czechs 68 lol for Hungarians 56g lol etc.

              and yes: eat, not carry bags! yes forgot? belay
              1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 11: 50 New
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                belay you are on a Russian website where they speak Russian

                So I explain in Russian - “subscription” or “subscription” is a purely Russian word. smile
                Duc, remember the “followers” ​​lol - wrote in 38g for Czechs lol, for Poles in 39 lol, for Danes, Norwegians, etc. in 40g lol, for Czechs 68 lol for Hungarians 56g lol, etc.

                Well, where are they all now? And in which hole for the dildo are you right now?
                and yes: eat, not carry bags! yes forgot? belay

                Right! Only it works in two directions. laughing
                1. Olgovich 10 May 2020 06: 51 New
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                  Quote: Sniper Amateur
                  So I explain in Russian - “subscription” or “subscription” is a purely Russian word.

                  Then translate into Russian:
                  Quote: Sniper Amateur
                  Punch them to subscribe in this case - can you?
                  WHERE to punch? lol
                  Quote: Sniper Amateur
                  Well where are they all now ?.

                  In e yes
                  So who spoke for them, storyteller? lol
                  Quote: Sniper Amateur
                  Right! Only it works in two directions

                  and don’t. yes
                  1. Sniper Amateur 10 May 2020 07: 58 New
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                    Quote: Sniper Amateur
                    So I explain in Russian - “subscription” or “subscription” is a purely Russian word.

                    Then translate into Russian:

                    OMG, well, you began to extrude someone who was petty, not serious. And as a result - I had serious troubles with the whole Caudla much stronger than you and your girlfriends-friends. This is called a “subscription” or “subscription” of the petty one that you tried to gobble.
                    WHERE to punch? lol

                    Associated with paragraph above. “To break through a subscription” means to cope with such a codena, impose your will on it, or force it to be agreed with you and yours.
                    In e. Yes
                    So who spoke for them, storyteller? lol

                    Where? In the "e"? This is compared with you. Do you want to say they are there? Wow! What funny funny you are, damn it!
                    And who spoke for them - you can easily find out by googling the list of Axis victorious European states. There will be dofiga what a long list.
                    and don’t. yes

                    Exactly. Which I advise. You. smile
                    1. Olgovich 10 May 2020 10: 34 New
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                      Quote: Sniper Amateur
                      OMG, well, you began to extrude someone who was petty, not serious. And as a result - had serious troubles with the whole codela much stronger than you and your girlfriends friends. This is called a “subscription” or “subscription” of the petty one that you tried to gobble

                      it is again not Russian request
                      Quote: Sniper Amateur
                      Associated with paragraph above. “To break through a subscription” means to cope with such a codena, impose your will on it, or force it to be agreed with you and yours.

                      fool lol
                      Quote: Sniper Amateur
                      Where? In the "e"? This is compared with you. Do you want to say they are there? Wow! What funny funny you are, damn it!
                      And who spoke for them - you can easily find out by googling the list of Axis victorious European states. There will be dofiga what a long list

                      so who spoke for the Finns, the storyteller? long list is on the table!
                      Quote: Sniper Amateur
                      Exactly. Which I advise. You

                      belay fool lol
                      1. Sniper Amateur 12 May 2020 20: 40 New
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                        This is again not a Russian request

                        Well - if you do not know the Russian language - this is not my troubles.
                        so who spoke for the Finns, the storyteller? long list is on the table!

                        Did you decide to get off?
                        With a pontoon whistled the same as:
                        Duc, remember the “followers” ​​lol - wrote in 38g for Czechs lol, for Poles in 39 lol, for Danes, Norwegians, etc. in 40g lol, for Czechs 68 lol for Hungarians 56g lol, etc.

                        And when I poked your nose at:
                        And who spoke for them - you can easily find out by googling the list of Axis victorious European states. There will be dofiga what a long list.

                        already asking
                        so who spoke for the Finns
                        ? bully
                        Well, and how will you try to get off, little-baby? laughing
                        And about
                        belay fool lol
                        - I can only take my advice.
                      2. Olgovich 13 May 2020 08: 26 New
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                        Quote: Sniper Amateur
                        Well - if you do not know the Russian language - this is not my troubles.

                        Your not troubles, your glitches
                        Quote: Sniper Amateur
                        Did you decide to get off?
                        With a pontoon whistled the same as:
                        Duc, remember the “followers” ​​lol - wrote in 38g for Czechs lol, for Poles in 39 lol, for Danes, Norwegians, etc. in 40g lol, for Czechs 68 lol for Hungarians 56g lol, etc.

                        And when I poked your nose at:
                        And who spoke for them - you can easily find out by googling the list of Axis victorious European states. There will be dofiga what a long list.

                        already asking
                        so who spoke for the Finns
                        ?
                        Well, and how will you try to get off, little-baby?

                        Will the promised list of Finns joiners be instead of diarrhea?
                        Quote: Sniper Amateur
                        I can only take my advice.

                        demanded yes
          2. Sergey Zhikharev 9 May 2020 13: 31 New
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            It remains only to persuade Russia to attack Finland, as well as the Baltic states and Ukraine (well, and to take over Europe by the little things). And then, small but proud countries will repulse Russia. And there, NATO will help. What the hell is Russia giving up on today in Finland? .
            1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 14: 57 New
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              It remains only to persuade Russia to attack Finland, as well as the Baltic states and Ukraine

              For those who were locked in a bunker without access to the Web, a military conflict between Russia and Ukraine began on the night of February 27, 2014.
              1. Sergey Zhikharev 9 May 2020 16: 34 New
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                Oh miracle, the Internet has earned in the bunker, I have information! And here's what I find on Wikipedia:
                Military experts suggest classifying the general term military conflict in two main types:
                War is a form of warfare by the state’s armed forces in order to subordinate the enemy to the will of the political leadership of one of the warring parties, in which the parties are not limited to the use of military force. Political scientists use the term "classical war" [12].
                Armed conflict is a type of armed confrontation between states or social communities within them in order to resolve economic, political and other contradictions, through the limited use of military force by each of the parties.

                What fits the definition of "military conflict between Russia and Ukraine"?
                Well, again, on the vastness of the network, it was found:
                - Monya calls from Israel to a friend in Odessa: - Senya, what is going on there? ..
                Yes, Ukraine is fighting a little with Russia ...
                - So what, there are losses?
                YES, there is ... - Ukraine has lost: Crimea, a couple of regions, several planes and helicopters, tanks, BMPesh, different weapons there, it’s decent for the people and ...
                - And what did the Russians lose? ..
                Monya, you won’t believe it, but the Russians haven’t come to the war yet ...
                1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 17: 18 New
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                  Damn, some kind of internet you have a curve in the bunker yet. The difference between "military conflict" and "вооруженный conflict - you know, no?
                  - And what did the Russians lose? ..
                  Monya, you won’t believe it, but the Russians haven’t come to the war yet ...

                  Well - even if only based on personal impressions: we had two “flowers” ​​(“Cornflower-M”) in baht that just “failed to appear” lost. One of them - I even helped dragging the location of the minotaur myself. And the tanks burned down along with previously living contents. A couple of times even climbed into towers (small-sized because).
                  1. Sergey Zhikharev 9 May 2020 17: 35 New
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                    Since the Internet is in the curve bin, can you explain what the difference is?
                    1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 17: 53 New
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                      Military conflict is a conflict accompanied by the use of military and / or paramilitary units. Moreover, such a conflict may not be accompanied / almost not accompanied by the actual use of weapons for lethal defeat. A classic example of such a military conflict without firing was Anschluss, for example. Or the occupation of Denmark. Or the occupation of Luxembourg.
                      Well, armed conflict is already a real batch. By the way: armed conflict - not always a military conflict. Suppression of lethal weapons of mass armed riots - armed conflict. But not military conflict.
                    2. Sergey Zhikharev 9 May 2020 18: 01 New
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                      Thank you.
                      Austria, Denmark and Luxembourg were completely captured (occupied) by Germany. As an example (the situation in Russia and Ukraine), the seizure of Vilnius by Poland (seizure of part of the territory and not the entire state) is more suitable.
                    3. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 18: 23 New
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                      You are welcome. But I'm not sure that the "capture of Vilnius by Poland" here is suitable as an analogy. In our textbooks this appears as "Polish-Lithuanian war 1920 "And there were military operations. Even significant on the scale of these countries. In Crimea, there were only a few killed, and our troops were almost forbidden to use weapons until the very last. And even when it was possible to flood the" polite "and dance it was furnished with such conditions ... negative
  3. Alexey RA 7 May 2020 10: 54 New
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    Quote: Sniper Amateur
    Original Finnish this "native Russian territory."

    Finns theme originality it would be better not to raise it, otherwise it will turn out that all of Finland is originally Swedish territory. smile
    Quote: Sniper Amateur
    You tried to select in 1939 - you got a burdock (but the Finns purely formally lost at the same time, yes).

    “Formally lost” - they lost all lines of defense, practically lost their army by the end of the war and opened the way to Helsinki.
    Quote: Sniper Amateur
    OK, what a problem! - they’ll go for the third time. Will it fail again? - So they will go for the fourth, fifth time - and so on.

    So the Finns stormed Peter every weekend and, unable to withstand the fierce struggle with the green snake, crawled back. But the "sisu" was strong in them - and they returned again. smile
    1. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 01: 08 New
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      lost all lines of defense, practically lost their army by the end of the war and opened the way to Helsinki.

      Um ... 20% of losses (including unrepaired sanitary) in combat units (in general in the Defense Forces - less; forces of territorial defense - have remained unaffected so far), intensified (!!!!) Compared to the outbreak of war, artillery, tank troops (increased at times) and the Air Force - is it "practically lost the army"? Nude ... bully Add with a plus to karma the upcoming “swamp season”, the rear line, later called the “Salpa Line”, which were expected to be available in the next 3-4 weeks for the 57th (for starters) Expeditionary Force and Allied fleet. Well, look at the map - where is Viipuri, and where is Helsinki - and how much from the first to walk on foot with a soldier's step to the second - not even into the mud (to which only a few days remained). bully
      Exactly the same thing that I wrote here to a comrade who loves to throw a "heavy hat": she-com. Stalin I.V. - was much smarter than you! hi
  4. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 01: 59 New
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    Tov. Boat Rats - you had a cool one. good hi
    Apparently - you:
    a) young and hot; smile
    b) girl; smile
    c) fought in the Southeast on our side. good
    - this is worthy of all Respect - and your Finnish Battle Comrade - too (and even - even more so - excuse me if something is wrong), but: "He left his land - went to fight - so that the land could be given to the peasants in Grenada!" (with ) - it’s true well it costs a lot; especially since the most “expensive” monthly tariffs in the Ukrainian Armed Forces were no more than 1500 EUR - and this is for the Finn - well, it’s really ridiculous to take risks in life; good and many, many more good good !!). But ... draw conclusions about the readiness of the current Finns to "give" to the "burdock" to the "Russians" again in terms of position and behavior one such a person - IMHO, is fundamentally wrong. For the most part - the Finns are "not the same" (s). My former nephew for the former Third Wife - had a girl - the daughter of Finland's Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs. I think she better imagines it overall situation in Suomi. It is said that revanchist sentiment is there unconditionally. But in general - in the next war, the very pronounced majority of Finns did not torn. We are ready to defend our Fatherland. But there is no way to “resolve the Karelian problem.” Resigned. Although it’s true that one of the reasons for Finland’s non-entry into NATO and the WEU is the country's desire to maintain “free hands” regarding Karelia and Far Lapland. But only if it works out extremely favorable political circumstances.
    PS In order to keep the rifle battalion even relatively briefly even in the most favorable conditions, we need an easel machine gun with water-cooled barrel and, well, at least a very large supply of ammunition. So - the "old-time old woman" - that would be NIAsilila. Although the fact that such "old women" gave a lot of "joyful joys" to the Red Army during the Winter War is really beyond doubt. Their fire training and courage - were exceptional, incredible simply - for a European in cr. least. good
    1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 12: 42 New
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      Spasibki! love My Rat will be pleased! love
      No offense - everyone in the Corps believed that foreign volunteers were the most respected part of the fighters. Moreover, the greatest respect was enjoyed by Russians from Russia.
      I didn’t hear about “Regulars” about 1500 EUR. The maximum is one and a half times less. And in the Corps - there was no financial allowance. In addition to small "field" of course.
      As for the Finns, I won’t argue. the “friend Magnum” was indeed from Lapland, and even “papua” (if I call it right) - those who are stubborn from stubborn Finns, even in terms of stubborn Finns. smile
      But about the machine gun - I bet. There, how did the Reds advance? Zergrash pure clean. Knee-deep, or even waist-deep in snow, at a snail's speed. In thick chains in growth, into which they slowly (deep snow) deployed from a company or battalion column, and only after it came under fire. There was no winter camouflage either. There were not even helmets. Shorter than the target - you can’t imagine a better idea. Dream of a sniper!
      Well, add that with Mauser-98 - you can also remove a single target with a good probability of two kilometers. This is true with modern optics. But even a mosquito with an old-time PU - a good shooter will confidently work on waist targets at distances greater than 1000 m.
      1. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 00: 42 New
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        Thank you! love The soul of my Rat - it will be nice! love

        I am flattered. smile This is unlikely to affect your rating - but "+" set of course.
  5. FRoman1984 8 May 2020 07: 28 New
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    Quote: Sniper Amateur
    "What honestly?" Original Finnish this "native Russian territory." You tried to select in 1939 - you got a burdock (but the Finns purely formally lost at the same time, yes). The Finns - not UZBAGo - played in the "Continuation War". And again, tactically and promptly polished your burdocks, but again, by the end, they lost at the same time. OK, what a problem! - they’ll go for the third time. Will it fail again? - So they will go for the fourth, fifth time - and so on. For these are the Finns, for ... Like my long-dead (rip) Kamikaze rats - not stopping at anything - even a cat rushing five times more. And therefore - always winning ...

    We polished the population of the territories occupied by them? After all, they were “lured” because of the Nazi army’s employment, then in 1944 the Finns were gouged like a turtle god, therefore, it is necessary to evaluate by the final result, and not by tactical successes.
    1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 12: 03 New
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      in 1944, the Finns were gouged like a turtle god, therefore, it is necessary to evaluate by the final result

      Well, purely for the sake of sporting interests, I googled the Moscow Truce and the Paris Peace Treaty - and spent 10 minutes. to read. Repeat the same ritual and say later - were their conditions similar to those that dictate after the "cutting under the turtle"?
      1. FRoman1984 10 May 2020 01: 54 New
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        Quote: Sniper Amateur
        in 1944, the Finns were gouged like a turtle god, therefore, it is necessary to evaluate by the final result

        Well, purely for the sake of sporting interests, I googled the Moscow Truce and the Paris Peace Treaty - and spent 10 minutes. to read. Repeat the same ritual and say later - were their conditions similar to those that dictate after the "cutting under the turtle"?

        Of course. After the offensive in 1944, who requested a truce? and what conditions were advanced by the USSR? Google again. This is the cutting under the turtle. These "brave" Finnish guys were frightened by the banal, because they understood what fate would await them after the fall of Germany, and the fact that Germany did not remain long - in 1944, it was already clear.
        1. Sniper Amateur 10 May 2020 03: 22 New
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          And something - that "a truce was requested" is a sign of "cutting under the turtle." Why then did the Germans not request a cease-fire right up to April 30, 1945. And even then they did not agree to it at all under any conditions? Why then did the Finns themselves not agree to a truce and peace on absolutely any conditions that they would dictate to them and why the unrealistically cool grandfather "Stalin" suddenly decided to show moderation again? Why if the "Finnish guys" were scared "- until the last hour of the war did the Finnish army maintain morale and full organization?
          1. FRoman1984 11 May 2020 07: 57 New
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            Quote: Sniper Amateur
            And something - that "a truce was requested" is a sign of "cutting under the turtle." Why then did the Germans not request a cease-fire right up to April 30, 1945. And even then they did not agree to it at all under any conditions? Why then did the Finns themselves not agree to a truce and peace on absolutely any conditions that they would dictate to them and why the unrealistically cool grandfather "Stalin" suddenly decided to show moderation again? Why if the "Finnish guys" were scared "- until the last hour of the war did the Finnish army maintain morale and full organization?

            This is a sign of defeat in the war. And a certain amount of cowardice. What is the armistice / peace requested? Would stand to the end. But no, as soon as the Red Army approached the borders, unblocked Leningrad, captured Vyborg - that’s all, an urgent need for peace. The population is starving in the camps easier and safer than dying under the shells of the Soviet Army. This clearly does not fit the definition of "fighting spirit."
            The Germans did not ask for a truce from the USSR, because they really wanted to surrender to the allies instead of the USSR. A lot has been written about this in detail. Yes, and remember, for example, “Seventeen Moments of Spring” - the whole film is just about the behind-the-scenes negotiations between the top of the SS / SD / RSHA with the USA / Britain and the Soviet intelligence that revealed it.
            According to Stalin. As it was written in the article that we are discussing, the reason was big politics. Having shown concessions from the initial rather rigid requirements, he secured the neutral status of Finland. Like Sweden.
            1. Sniper Amateur 12 May 2020 21: 58 New
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              Defeats - they are different. Initially - you wrote about "cutting under the turtle." Those about crushing defeat. In fact, on the Finnish front in 1944 - such a “rout” at point blank range and is not tracked by day with a candle. And to make peace on the basis of an acceptable compromise, if you see that you can’t win the war, it’s not cowardice at all. This is wisdom. The Soviet Union also received more than once or twice in the face and made a compromise peace.
              The population is starving in the camps easier and safer than dying under the shells of the Soviet Army. This clearly does not fit the definition of "fighting spirit."

              Yah! That the Finns washed you in blood for more than three years - despite your superiority in quantity and quality of technology - forgot? And even in the summer of 1944 - the second stage of the Vyborg-Petrozavodsk operation - ended in failure.
              The Germans did not ask for a truce from the USSR, because they really wanted to surrender to the allies instead of the USSR.

              And therefore, their government rejected the Soviet conditions, being surrounded and already partially captured by Berlin? bully
              And remember, for example, "Seventeen Moments of Spring"

              Thank you - I do not teach the story of children's cartoons from the time of the Reds. bully
              1. FRoman1984 15 May 2020 06: 33 New
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                Quote: Sniper Amateur
                Defeats - they are different. Initially - you wrote about "cutting under the turtle." Those about crushing defeat. In fact, on the Finnish front in 1944 - such a “rout” at point blank range and is not tracked by day with a candle. And to make peace on the basis of an acceptable compromise, if you see that you can’t win the war, it’s not cowardice at all. This is wisdom. The Soviet Union also received more than once or twice in the face and made a compromise peace.
                The population is starving in the camps easier and safer than dying under the shells of the Soviet Army. This clearly does not fit the definition of "fighting spirit."

                Yah! That the Finns washed you in blood for more than three years - despite your superiority in quantity and quality of technology - forgot? And even in the summer of 1944 - the second stage of the Vyborg-Petrozavodsk operation - ended in failure.
                The Germans did not ask for a truce from the USSR, because they really wanted to surrender to the allies instead of the USSR.

                And therefore, their government rejected the Soviet conditions, being surrounded and already partially captured by Berlin? bully
                And remember, for example, "Seventeen Moments of Spring"

                Thank you - I do not teach the story of children's cartoons from the time of the Reds. bully

                This is an example of the situation at that time, and not children's cartoons. In reality, everything was like this only without Shtirlitsa, of course :)
                Well, they rejected the truce, I repeat, because it was impossible for them to surrender to the USSR, in Berlin it was or didn’t matter. They all understood what awaited them for what they had been doing in the occupied territories for 4 years. Those who managed to surrender to the Allies - many survived, who were taken prisoner by the Red Army - were killed in camps, shot, at construction sites, etc. - very few returned. Therefore, the logic of those who fought in Berlin is better to die with weapons in their hands than captive in the USSR.
                As for the Vyborg-Petrozavodsk operation, all of the goals were achieved: the Finns were defeated, Vyborg, Petrozavodsk, most of Karelia were liberated, and they reached the state border. After that, the Finns requested a truce. Themselves first. Isn't that a defeat? And where is the "courage" and "fighting spirit"? As you, I think, understand that it was possible to roll the Finns to the end, but at that time the main thing was to finish off the Nazis - it was the main opponent, not the Finns there or someone else.
  • Pavel57 9 May 2020 00: 03 New
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    You can own what you can hold. Otherwise, they will recall the historical facts of antiquity or come up with those, and take them away.
  • AU Ivanov. 7 May 2020 08: 54 New
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    Sisu - Finnish obstinacy, resistance against adversity.
    1. not main 7 May 2020 23: 54 New
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      Quote: AU Ivanov.
      Sisu - Finnish obstinacy, resistance against adversity.

      There is such a timber truck, but it is not considered good!
      1. Nekarmadlen 8 May 2020 10: 56 New
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        Sisu Avto is a Finnish manufacturer of automotive special equipment and components .. Bridges Sisu puts KAMAZ on its trucks for rally raids (Dakar) ..
  • tatarin1972 7 May 2020 09: 54 New
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    You mean "sisu" mean?
  • Deck 7 May 2020 05: 42 New
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    Over 7 thousand prisoners of war (out of 8. - Auth.) Were buried alive, shot, put to death in gas chambers.


    What place is this information sucked from? Are there any links? Or did you come up with along the way?
    1. Octopus 7 May 2020 06: 44 New
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      Quote: Deck
      What place is this information sucked from?

      Of the publications in the authoritative publication LiveJournal, most likely.

      I liked this more:
      was allowed to evade "mandatory" participation in the war with Germany

      Wow, as they say, handsome.

      Well, of course.

      Famous photo "Prisoners fascism"Galina Zakharovna Sanko.

      What is interesting in this photo.
      1. The photo shows the 6th Finnish camp in Petrozavodsk. The Finns, whether they were good or bad, had nothing to do with fascism. The Soviet side's demonstration of this particular photo in Nuremberg raises some questions.

      2. Galina Zakharovna, a wonderful woman, but not Mata Hari, who made her way to occupied Petrozavodsk. This is a Soviet military photographer who takes photos in liberated the city. Comrade Sanko was not sailing on a landing boat, like Spillberg’s on Omaha, but arrived in liberated Petrozavodsk by plane.

      That is, here are Soviet children behind barbed wire, and around them, behind the scenes - not a single fascist, only soldiers of the liberation army, representatives of the Soviet press and peaceful Soviet people freed from fascism. And the children, as you can easily see, are behind the barbed wire. Not yet up to them.

      I think this greatly changes the content of the photo. No?
      1. tatarin1972 7 May 2020 10: 03 New
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        This is camp N ° 5, so far, an area in the city of Petrozavodsk, among themselves, it is called 5 village.
        1. Octopus 7 May 2020 11: 30 New
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          Quote: tatarin1972
          This is camp N ° 5, so far, an area in the city of Petrozavodsk, among themselves, it is called 5 village.

          It's weird. They are writing the 6th. I will find out.

          But this does not change the essence of the matter.
          under the wings of a black, ruined city. The pilot chose a site in the very center of Petrozavodsk on Lenin Square. Knowing that the city was liberated by amphibious assault, I went to the lake. On the way, the Komsomol girls told me about the camp in which young children were imprisoned. I headed there and soon saw barracks behind the barbed wire. Scared faces. They looked at me with disbelief with non-childish eyes. I tried to talk to them, but they stubbornly did not answer. After taking some photos, I went through the gate. And suddenly some girl told me “aunt!” Children cried, repeated through tears "mother" Children were not only from Karelia, but also from the Leningrad region. They could not be sent immediately, since the city was liberated only from the side of the lake, and there were still fascists around


          One in this story I see not only the crimes of fascism, but also another small problem?
    2. Undecim 7 May 2020 10: 15 New
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      What place is this information sucked from? Are there any links? Or did you come up with along the way?
      All information about concentration camps for civilians and prisoners of war, the number of prisoners passing through them, mortality and its causes (inhuman conditions, hunger, illness, murder, punishment in the form of flogging) is in the open Finnish press.
      1. Deck 7 May 2020 10: 26 New
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        inhuman conditions of detention, hunger, disease, murder, punishment in the form of flogging


        You do not find that the flogging and the gas chamber are slightly different punishments?
        1. Undecim 7 May 2020 10: 44 New
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          About gas chambers in Finnish camps is an obvious, let’s say, untruth.
          In accordance with the conditions of the Moscow ceasefire, which was signed by Finland on the one hand and the USSR and Great Britain, acting on behalf of countries at war with Finland, on the other hand, on September 19, 1944, Finland itself had to condemn its military on its territory criminals, while the Finns had to pass a number of laws ex post facto.
          The progress of the investigation and trials was controlled by the Control Commission, headed by Zhdanov. No gas chambers were ever mentioned either in these processes or in other sources.
        2. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 01: 15 New
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          Yes, what is the difference? Indeed, in the Main - OH Prav! And what is not Georgians, but Armenian, not in the lottery, but in cards ... laughing
  • FRoman1984 7 May 2020 06: 02 New
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    Only for the fact that they killed 2000 children, they have to apologize all their lives for what they had done as Germans.
    They began to flirt with them in vain, so as not to let them into NATO, it would be worth drowning in 1944 all this Finnish Nazi rot in the Karelian swamps.
    1. Sniper Amateur 7 May 2020 06: 52 New
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      in 1944 it would be worth drowning this whole Finnish Nazi rot in the Karelian swamps.

      Stupidly would not work. It’s just too expensive for you.
  • alekc75 7 May 2020 06: 14 New
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    they need to make Stalin praise for allowing them to live !! they had to be restored as Germans and paid for what was destroyed!
    1. Deck 7 May 2020 06: 37 New
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      Read more. Large reparations were paid. Payments were monitored by the Allied Control Commission A. A. Zhdanov (Stalin’s closest assistant, 1st secretary of the Leningrad regional committee and city committee of the CPSU (b), member of the Military Council of the Leningrad Front) in Helsinki.
      1. Bar1 7 May 2020 10: 55 New
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        Quote: Deck
        Read more. Large reparations were paid


        This agreement was confirmed, detailed and signed during a series of December meetings of Finnish Prime Minister Yu. K. Paasikivi and Chairman of the Allied Control Commission A. A. Zhdanov in Helsinki. The term of reparations increased to eight years, and in 1948 the USSR agreed to reduce the volume of reparations to $ 226,5 million.

        The last train with supplies crossed the border in Vainikkale on September 18, 1952.

        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Военные_репарации_Финляндии_Советскому_Союзу
        it’s a penny and a cheap thing, not a “recovery." The Finns, together with the Germans, organized the BLOCKADE of Leningrad, which killed just a million people from starvation. The Finns had to act cruelly and for life, just take away their statehood, language and culture.
        In general, they do not forgive this, but for some reason Stalin forgave him.
        1. A.TOR 7 May 2020 11: 31 New
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          rob them of statehood, language and culture.

          - Just this was the main sign of Nazi Nazism.
          1. Deck 7 May 2020 11: 43 New
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            And here the followers of Nazi Nazism are a dime a dozen, only they call themselves fighters against fascism. That is, they dream of "treating" the like
            1. Bar1 7 May 2020 13: 20 New
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              Quote: Deck
              And here the followers of Nazi Nazism are a dime a dozen, only they call themselves fighters against fascism. That is, they dream of "treating" the like


              the reward should be just what you deserve, and you can at least get away with Mr., but it was not Hitler who first invented genocide.
          2. Bar1 7 May 2020 13: 01 New
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            Quote: A.TOR
            just this was the main sign of Nazi Nazism.


            why only hitler? For example, the Angles, the most democratic in the world, did the genocide of the Hindus, Kenyans, Boers, Chinese and nothing the most important in the world. The French destroyed the Algerians, the Americans destroyed the Indians, the Japanese destroyed the Ainu. And now what? All of them now have no problems with these peoples. You just need to be more determined and then the Finnish enemies would never be enemies. Moreover, starting from Lenin, who actually signed them sovereignty, they became enemies.
            1. A.TOR 7 May 2020 13: 08 New
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              If you remember everything, then you can get to the memory of the joint capture of Beijing by Russian troops who participated in the suppression of the "boxer uprising."
              Yes, there have been many things in the history of mankind.
              In the XNUMXst century, other mores.
              1. Bar1 7 May 2020 15: 00 New
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                Quote: A.TOR
                If you remember everything, then you can get to the memory of the joint capture of Beijing by Russian troops who participated in the suppression of the "boxer uprising."


                and what can you say about this uprising, even remember when it was? Who started, who suffered the most, who were the most burdened in this war?
                The Romanovs are not Russian kings, but, as they say now, the colonial administration, have always been against the Russian people, just like now. They robbed here, lived there, doesn’t resemble anything?
        2. Octopus 7 May 2020 12: 17 New
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          Quote: Bar1
          The Finns together with the Germans organized the BLOCKADE of Leningrad

          Something I'm confused. If the Blockade is already being hung up on Mannerheim, then the Germans, it turns out, have nothing to do with it? Or will you expose historical guilt in two directions? There also the Spaniards, it seems, were nearby.
          Quote: Bar1
          only a million people perished from starvation.

          Very sad. And why did they starve to death, what happened? The Finns did not pass ships with food from the Swedish MKK to them?
          Quote: Bar1
          it's a penny and a cheap thing, not a "recovery"

          You better tell us that of the $ 300 million, the surviving victims and relatives of the victims received. This is not such little money, by the way, it is comparable to the debt recognized by the USSR for Lend-Lease.
          Quote: Bar1
          It was necessary to act with Finns cruelly and for the whole life, just to take away their statehood, language and culture.

          You see, there are problems:
          1. The Baltic countries, with which they did just that, regained their statehood in the early 90's. Moreover, it was the Baltic history with the Pact that became one of the mines that exploded under the USSR.
          2. It is much less well known that even before the 90s, the Baltic countries were officially regarded by the West as territories occupied by the USSR. Which led to some difficulties.
          3. It was specifically in Finland that the Allies were extremely opposed, above all Churchill. Since at the end of the summer of the 44th, relations between the USSR and the Allies worsened quite a lot (due, first of all, to the situation in Poland, and then to the Balkans), Comrade Stalin seriously feared that he would go too far. As a matter of fact, the Allies didn’t really need it anymore, the front in the West was formed from sea to sea, and the Allies forecast on terms their victory is very optimistic (much more optimistic than it should). In this short pause, successful Finns managed to slip out of fraternal embrace. Lucky.
          4. And finally, last note sheet. Based on the experience of the previous war with Finland, your proposal is tantamount to a proposal to put several hundred thousand more Russians in the ground. At comrade Stalin in the 44th there are not so many of them as once, speaking between us.
          Quote: Bar1
          for some reason Stalin forgave him.

          Comrade Stalin is generally not very kind, but he set his priorities right, at least this time.
          1. Bar1 7 May 2020 13: 15 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            Something I'm confused. If the Blockade is already being hung up on Mannerheim, then the Germans, it turns out, have nothing to do with it?

            why are you so confused, in three pines. The blockade is when the Germans are around, on the one hand, and the Germans on the other. Is that clear?

            Quote: Octopus
            Quote: Bar1
            only a million people perished from starvation.

            Very sad

            sad to you? Actually, for OUR people this is a great tragedy. You are probably not one of ours.

            Quote: Octopus
            . The Baltic countries, with which they did just that, regained their statehood in the early 90s.


            You don’t know stories. they didn’t return it, but they were given this statehood. Their contribution to this is not at all.

            Quote: Octopus
            It is much less well known that even before the 90s, the Baltic countries were officially regarded by the West as territories occupied by the USSR. Which led to some difficulties.


            I don’t know how yours thought it was there, but the Baltic States have always been ours, according to the Olympics they bought from the Swedes. Mostly Russian people lived there. Then Lenin handed over the Baltic states, then Stalin signed the act / pact with the Germans and again they took the Baltic states. So you don’t know the story.

            Quote: Octopus
            It was specifically in Finland that the Allies were extremely opposed, above all Churchill. Since at the end of the summer of the 44th, relations between the USSR and the Allies were very

            no. Chechil at 44m generally kept quiet, and after the war, he asked Stalin, what would you pick up with Finland? But Comrade Stalin generously did not take it.

            Quote: Octopus
            And finally, last note sheet.



            well, you’re not one of ours, ours aren’t so expressed. Forgetting who our enemy is and who is our friend is to push the war into the future for future generations. That Stalin should have understood this, but this "friend of athletes" for some reason forgot about it.
            1. Octopus 7 May 2020 13: 25 New
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              Quote: Bar1
              The blockade is when the Germans are around, on the one hand, and the Germans on the other. Is that clear?

              And how to expose a million dead? Twice?
              Quote: Bar1
              Actually, for OUR people this is a great tragedy.

              You are wasting this question in vain. It is not as beneficial for discussion as you think.
              Quote: Bar1
              You don’t know stories. they didn’t return it, but they were given this statehood. Their contribution to this is not at all.

              This is a very interesting position. And who gave it to them, so kind?
              Quote: Bar1
              Then Lenin gave the Baltic states, then Stalin signed the act / pact with the Germans and again they took the Baltic states.

              You see, as one modern celebrity blogger said, Vilnius is not a sandwich (or what he said there).
              Quote: Bar1
              Chechil at 44m generally kept quiet, and after the war, he asked Stalin, what would you pick up with Finland? But Comrade Stalin generously did not take it.

              The first time I hear about the generosity of Comrade Stalin. And, no, not the first, someone already wrote that for Poland everything was done as he could. Big soul, apparently, was a man.
              Quote: Bar1
              ours are not so expressed.

              I did not find a short Russian analogue, sorry for translit.
              Quote: Bar1
              To forget who our enemy is and who is our friend is to push the war into the future for future generations. That Stalin should have understood this

              In vain you slander Comrade Stalin.

              His enemies were absolutely everything, and war with them was inevitable anyway. With someone before, with someone later.
              1. Bar1 7 May 2020 15: 02 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                And how to expose a million dead? Twice?

                between the eyes you need something, two times to expose.
                1. Octopus 7 May 2020 15: 08 New
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                  Quote: Bar1
                  you need something between the eyes

                  Comprehensive answer, thanks.
                  1. not main 8 May 2020 00: 05 New
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                    Quote: Octopus
                    Quote: Bar1
                    you need something between the eyes

                    Comprehensive answer, thanks.

                    I would add!
          2. chenia 8 May 2020 10: 14 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            As a matter of fact, the Allies didn’t really need it anymore, the front in the West was formed from sea to sea, and the Allies forecast for the timing of their victory is very optimistic (much more optimistic than it should).


            Oh you are not even a dreamer, but a science fiction writer. One can imagine, let’s say the USSR in 1944 withdrew from the war, and the Germans in the Ardennes operation appear two more armies and one more in reserve.
            Well.
            Allied crawl accelerated back to the British Isles.
            what followed - in a little inspired by realism.
            1. Octopus 8 May 2020 12: 56 New
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              Quote: chenia
              what followed - in a little inspired by realism.

              Wow, you read to the end of the sentence. And then at first it was imperceptible.

              In August and September, the Allies were in very high spirits. Home for Christmas, maybe heard. Allies greatly overestimated themselves, but at that moment their picture of the world was like that.
              Quote: chenia
              Germans in the Ardennes operation appear an additional two armies and one more in reserve.

              The Allies have quite a few problems. They are still poorly prepared for the land war with the Reich 1: 1. We can say that they are not ready at all.

              But in the summer of the 44th they don’t think so.
              1. chenia 8 May 2020 13: 48 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                But in the summer of the 44th they don’t think so.


                I agree with that. And it was not military success that fueled their confidence, but knowledge of what should happen in the twentieth of July. And then the options, and the Red Army is no longer needed.
                1. Octopus 8 May 2020 14: 26 New
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                  Quote: chenia
                  it was not military success that fueled their confidence, but knowledge of what should happen in the twenties of July

                  ))
                  Unfortunately, you are mistaken, and twice.
                  1. Regarding the victory for Christmas of the 44th - this is the mood of the end of summer, it did not start.
                  2. The Allies extremely poorly used the opportunities that they had in the political sense. It can be said, only harmed.
                  1. chenia 8 May 2020 15: 00 New
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                    Quote: Octopus
                    this is the mood of the end of summer, not the beginning.


                    And they do not know what was supposed to happen in Wolfschans? Not? And they gave the bomb to Stauffenberg to suppress the fish in Spree. And the sleepy generals, who clearly slowed down the reaction to the landing in Normandy? And when Hitler began to “peretrahivat” the Wehrmacht, of course you can choke on optimism and a quick victory.

                    Quote: Octopus
                    poorly used the opportunities that they had in the political sense. It can be said, only harmed.


                    This had to be corrected at the conservatory (in 1939), and in 1944 "in the political sense" only after Hitler was carried forward with his feet. Did not work out.
                    1. Octopus 8 May 2020 18: 21 New
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                      Quote: chenia
                      And they do not know what was supposed to happen in Wolfschans?

                      There were visits to them, but they did not coordinate their actions. Otherwise, one would expect at least a jerk to Paris, where Stulpnagel arrested the SS.
                      Quote: chenia
                      when Hitler began to “peretrahivat” the Wehrmacht, of course you can choke on optimism and a quick victory.

                      You have an exaggerated opinion about the understanding by the Allies of what is happening in the Reich. No, just after the first successes found hatred.
                      Quote: chenia
                      correct, and in 1944 "in the political sense" only after the removal of Hitler with his feet forward. Did not work out.

                      You did not understand. In a political sense, the negotiations of the Allies with the "constructive" part of the Reich leadership could give an excellent result and greatly reduce the war. Not to mention Japan. Unfortunately, the Allies tried very hard to miss all the opportunities. From helpless intelligence and the State Department to criminal and insane initiatives, such as a complete and unconditional surrender or the notorious Morgenthau plan. The line "our enemy Hitler, not the Germans / Japanese" was not maintained at all, although even Stalin tried to act in this direction.

                      It is enough to see how allies in Italy enchantingly crap. Hitler’s main ally in Europe surrendered and switched to the right side. So what? And How?
                      1. chenia 8 May 2020 19: 42 New
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                        Quote: Octopus
                        There were calls to them,

                        Quote: Octopus
                        after the first successes


                        Well, the leadership of the Allies was clearly aware of the existence of the front (and there almost all the generals, who obviously, quietly, here Hitler did not want to carefully "luster" the Wehrmacht.
                        And where are the successes from? You will agree that with a certain mood at the top of the Wehrmacht, successes among the allies should have appeared.

                        Quote: Octopus
                        Allied negotiations with the "constructive" part of the Reich leadership


                        I agree. And for not "constructive" July 20 and Moabit prison. Then yes.
                        It will not work otherwise.
                      2. Octopus 8 May 2020 20: 07 New
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                        Quote: chenia
                        for the non-constructive July 20 and Moabit prison. Then yes.

                        Some kind of strange idea. Just constructive Fuhrer tidied up, although not all.
                        Quote: chenia
                        And where are the successes from?

                        The first time I see that Cobra’s success was associated with July 20th.
                      3. chenia 8 May 2020 20: 55 New
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                        Quote: Octopus
                        Just a constructive Fuhrer


                        You read yours, and negotiations should have taken place provided -
                        when for Hitler’s supporters
                        Quote: chenia
                        for non-constructive July 20 and Moabit Prison

                        It happened the other way around.

                        Quote: Octopus
                        so that Cobra’s success is associated with July 20th


                        Yes, the Germans (generals) were already partially demoralized, and slightly sabotaged the instructions of the Führer and other officials from the non-constructive part.
                      4. Octopus 8 May 2020 21: 25 New
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                        Quote: chenia
                        negotiations should have taken place provided -
                        when for Hitler’s supporters

                        It is possible. But the conspirators did not have any guarantees from the Allies, as far as is known.
                        Quote: chenia
                        slightly sabotaged the instructions of the Fuhrer and other responsible from the non-constructive part.

                        This is idle talk. If we wanted Rommel and Klugg to surrender France, we would have surrendered much more reliably.
  • Sniper Amateur 7 May 2020 06: 54 New
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    Will not work. In this case, the Finnish Army would fight for Finland to the very end. With all the consequences for you. And comrade Dzhugashvilli-Stalin - nevertheless was the clever person.
    1. Alexander Suvorov 7 May 2020 09: 40 New
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      Amateur Sniper (My nickname is Ship))
      Will not work. In this case, the Finnish Army would fight for Finland to the very end
      And how long would you fight? In the 1944th Red Army, this is not the same as in the 39th and 40th, and in the 40th after breaking the Mannerheim line for the Finns, it all ended. So the fate of the Finns in the event of resistance would be decided within a month, a maximum of three months.
      With all the consequences for you.
      And for you? Where are you broadcasting, not from 404 hours? It’s painfully similar.
      1. Kronos 7 May 2020 12: 29 New
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        Yes, only these were thousands of lost lives that the USSR did not need
      2. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 13: 47 New
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        And how long would you fight? In the 1944th Red Army, this is not the same as in the 39th and 40th, and in the 40th after breaking the Mannerheim line for the Finns, it all ended.

        Here they already wrote about the real state of the Finnish army and the position of Finland by the spring of 1940. If the Reds continued to beat with their hooves, the war would drag on for many more months and with unpredictable consequences - until the unification of all against the USSR.
        So the fate of the Finns in the event of resistance would be decided within a month, a maximum of three months.

        You graduated from the General Staff Academy, "expert"? laughing
        Where are you broadcasting, not from 404 hours?

        No, I do not live in Russia.
  • Alevil 7 May 2020 06: 31 New
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    Judging by the actions of the Finns against the Russian population, they were no different from the German Nazis. My relatives went through Finnish camps and told a lot of things.
    1. Edward Vashchenko 7 May 2020 06: 57 New
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      Absolutely right! Some kind of slanting view of events.
      And Belofin -
      Bearing in mind, of course, the dramatic events of 1939-1940.

      Dramatic for the pro-fascist regime of Finland?
      victory over which the mighty USSR took incredible efforts

      Drew all ages to the army?
      Incredible efforts were needed in the Second World War, as well as in the Northern War, for that war.
      It is well known that only by the summer of 1944, after the final breakthrough of the Leningrad blockade, did Soviet troops enter the line of the former (until 1940) Soviet-Finnish border.

      Separate quote, i.e. could we do anything about the dynamics? In how powerful they were, as if the blockades of Leningrad, and other battles, were not defeated during this period, the Germans were defeated at Stalingrad, but there were no Finns.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Edward Vashchenko 7 May 2020 06: 59 New
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        Cherry on the cake:
        a brilliant officer of the Russian imperial army, Baron Karl Gustav Mannerheim, regent, and then President of Finland.


        who organized concentration camps for Russians?
        Straight all shone, can we return the Mannerheim board in St. Petersburg? In vain removed?
  • apro 7 May 2020 06: 35 New
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    The USSR was able to build profitable relations with Finland. Wherever there was healthy progmatism. There was no problem with the Finns in the soviets after 1944 ... but 1991 happened and the Soviet reality is gone. The time has come for a new Russia. And building relations with the Finns according to the Soviet model does not work due to weakness. due to the denial of the USSR. and there is nothing to build a new policy.
    1. Olgovich 7 May 2020 07: 27 New
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      Quote: apro
      The USSR was able to build profitable relations with Finland. Where by force where healthy workmanship

      suppression of atrocities Finnish Nazis is ... pragmatism? belay fool

      This is a crime and betrayal of its citizens.
      1. apro 7 May 2020 08: 36 New
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        Scatter ... sneak.
        1. Olgovich 7 May 2020 09: 11 New
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          Quote: apro
          Scatter ... sneak.

          Do not understand?! belay
          1. Alexander Suvorov 7 May 2020 09: 35 New
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            Olgovich (Andrey)
            Do not understand?!
            You understand everything, do not build an innocent sheep out of yourself. negative
            1. Olgovich 7 May 2020 10: 08 New
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              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              All do you understand, do not build an innocent sheep out of yourself.

              poke your lol wifelol you will and yes:
              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              do not build an innocent sheep out of yourself.
              yes
  • Olgovich 7 May 2020 06: 36 New
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    the Soviet leadership transferred the port of Pechenga on the coast of the Barents Sea to the newly formed Finland. This was done, by the way, not so much and not only for "reconciliation" with Helsinki - even in the conditions of NEP Pechenga could become an impossible project for the RSFSR and the USSR.

    Wow transfer rationale! belay

    so you can give half the country!
    And the aforementioned post-war "benefits" from the USSR, Finland was obliged to the desire of Moscow at all costs to maintain friendly Soviet-Finnish relations. The Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Assistance, signed in Moscow in 1948, was prolonged in 1955, 1970 and 1983 - until the dissolution of the USSR.

    In such a coordinate system Helsinki’s policy during the years of the Great Patriotic War needed to be hushed up.

    absolutely vicious. cynical practice in relation to the Russian victims of the Finnish invaders: how could it be silent about this for the sake of some lousy politics ?! Wildness ....

    For the sake of this notorious "friendship" they forgave other Nazis from eastern Europe and ... With their own hands turned them into this ... into victims of the "Soviet" occupation.

    And where are those forgiven friends and allies today? to NATO. Yes, even clean. fluffy and ... offended.

    The road spoon to dinner, it was necessary on time. despite everything, honestly talk about crimes to convict criminals and recover.

    It would be both honest and with respect to the victims and profitable and correct in the end.
  • svp67 7 May 2020 07: 06 New
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    It’s always necessary “to give each sister an earring, and some to the ears”, but this should always be done. So that similar precedents would not arise later, I don’t think that those who committed genocide against the Russian population, after the 44th year, abruptly flamed with love for him. And then we would punish these "animals", there would be less of their followers now
    1. Olgovich 7 May 2020 09: 14 New
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      Quote: svp67
      , but this always do. So that no similar precedents would arise I do not thinkthat those who committed genocide against the Russian population, after the 44th year sharply burned with love for him. And we punish then these "animals", there would be less of their followers now

      and how to disagree with you? yes
    2. A.TOR 7 May 2020 11: 34 New
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      “Now” Finland would be NATO with all the consequences
      1. svp67 7 May 2020 11: 42 New
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        Quote: A.TOR
        “Now” Finland would be NATO with all the consequences

        Now she would be in the same place where she is, there would be less, much less, simply wishing to shout about the "return" of some kind of "their" territories ...
  • Angrybeard 7 May 2020 07: 39 New
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    Once they opened a business, it means they learned something about the Finnish and NATO plans is not very pleasant. Yes, here soon the Baltic states of the nuclear weapons will want to place NATO, judging by the dynamics of their statements, what can Finland really be.
  • Ros 56 7 May 2020 07: 43 New
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    For some reason, it seems to me that I still have to reconsider our attitude to the role and participation of all European states in the events of 41-45 years relative to the USSR and give this a valid, unvarnished, assessment and, on this basis, already build relationships. Fortunately, there would be enough strength for this, would have been enough intelligence and political will.
    1. Octopus 7 May 2020 12: 49 New
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      Quote: Ros 56
      the participation of all European states in the events of 41-45 relative to the USSR and to give this a valid, unvarnished, assessment and, on this basis, already build relationships. Fortunately, there would be enough strength for this, would have been enough intelligence and political will.

      Seriously?

      If suddenly someone gives a valid, unvarnished, assessment of the activities of the USSR of that period, and most importantly - really, without embellishment, declares the USSR and the Russian Federation as one and the same state, Russia will be wrapped with barbed wire outside. not inside, as liberals fear.
      1. Ros 56 7 May 2020 12: 51 New
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        You are tormented by swallowing dust, it is troublesome.
    2. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 13: 54 New
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      For some reason, it seems to me that I still have to reconsider our attitude to the role and participation of all European states in the events of 41-45 years relative to the USSR and give this a valid, unvarnished, assessment and, on this basis, already build relationships. Fortunately, there would be enough strength for this, would have been enough intelligence and political will.

      You understand what ... If you “reconsider your attitude and give an assessment without embellishment” - this will not have any good consequences for you. Except the bad ones. A world without you can. You are not without him.
      1. Ros 56 10 May 2020 06: 23 New
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        Well, this is just understandable, to you that under Hitler, that under Stalin there are suckers, no matter. So bad consequences for us will be fatal for you. Learn the story.
        1. Sniper Amateur 10 May 2020 06: 29 New
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          How many more centuries of these "deadly consequences" to wait? Though to XXXI century - finally come?
  • Asad 7 May 2020 08: 36 New
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    Instead of a board, Medina must be hung up, at least for a day, so that I feel the bastard!
  • Alexey RA 7 May 2020 10: 40 New
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    It’s a paradox, but the Finns, unlike Romania and Bulgaria, and even Hungary, were actually allowed to evade the “obligatory” participation in the war with Germany.

    In fact, the Finns had to fight the Germans after leaving the war - on their territory. It was called the Lapland War.
  • Alex013 7 May 2020 10: 51 New
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    "... in fact, it was allowed to evade" mandatory "participation in the war with Germany" ...
    The Lapland War was then.
  • BAI
    BAI 7 May 2020 11: 44 New
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    help the Swedes stay “neutral.”

    Yes, neutrality is still one. Every second German shell is from Swedish ore. How much the intensity of hostilities would decrease if the number of shells was reduced by 2 times.
  • Artashes 7 May 2020 12: 44 New
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    It is deliberate to celebrate the Victory and ... keep silent about the Finnish atrocities, about the Finnish blockade of Leningrad, about the Finnish air strikes and sabotage against the Road of Life - another blasphemy of old and new Jesuits. Simply put, this is their cowardice before their own story. I know for sure: in the USSR over the past 30 years even articles in low-fire have been generally banned. Media on these issues. What ALWAYS were surprised in Sweden, Denmark, Norway. When the humanitarian convoy came from Sweden to Leningrad in 1944, the Swedes openly called the regent renegade there an accomplice of the Nazis, a political slander. Including in an interview with the Swedish media.
    I affirm for certain: Mannerheim is despised even on Danish Bornholm, even in the Norwegian Kikrkenes, neighboring Pechenga.
    1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 14: 02 New
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      I affirm for certain: Mannerheim is despised even on Danish Bornholm, even in the Norwegian Kikrkenes, neighboring Pechenga.

      Here is the opinion of such “awesome” fighters, such as the Danes and Norgs - for the soul of Marshal Manneheim and the Finns, figs are so significant! laughing
  • Engineer 7 May 2020 12: 49 New
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    Over 7 thousand prisoners of war (out of 8. - Auth.) Were buried alive, shot, euthanized in gas chambers
    .
    Where does the gas chamber information come from? Finnish camps are a terrible thing, but I read about gas chambers for the first time

    It’s a paradox, but the Finns, unlike Romania and Bulgaria, and even Hungary, were actually allowed to evade the “obligatory” participation in the war with Germany.

    Lapland war? No, not heard

    The total number of deaths of Soviet prisoners of war remained behind the scenes-18
    The total number of deceased civilians- ???
    1. Octopus 7 May 2020 12: 55 New
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      Quote: Engineer
      The total number of deceased civilians- ???

      And how do you count? Who died there from the burdens of occupation, who - from the burdens of warfare?
      Quote: Engineer
      Where does the gas chamber information come from?

      From the Internet. They won’t lie on the Internet.
      1. Engineer 7 May 2020 12: 57 New
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        Usually consider all dead. Regardless of whether he was beaten to death, died of consumption consuming an exhausted body, or of a heart attack before his release.
        A sound definition of this upper bar will immediately cut off a bunch of speculation and demagogic cries on both sides
        1. Octopus 7 May 2020 13: 06 New
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          Quote: Engineer
          The total number of deaths of Soviet prisoners of war remained behind the scenes-18

          For some reason, I always believed that we were talking about the total number of prisoners held in the camps, including civilians. But you are right, you need to clarify this point.
          1. Engineer 7 May 2020 13: 08 New
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            For the same reasons that the highest mortality rate among prisoners was in 1942, the largest number of prisoners of war died in the camps for Soviet prisoners of war. A total of 64 people were captured by the Finns, and only 188 were returned after the war. According to military statistics, 42 Soviet people died in prison camps. In that difficult and hungry year, for various reasons, another 412 people died.

            https://www.aroundspb.ru/finnish/sepp/sepp2.php
            THAT that google offhand
            1. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 02: 54 New
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              And what about the number of survivors after being captured in the "fortresses of Stalingrad" - eh? hi
              1. Engineer 8 May 2020 10: 00 New
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                Captured Germans in Stalingrad have nothing to do with captured and interned Soviet citizens in Karelia.
                The essence of the analysis is the division of the problem into its components. The Stalingrad case does not contain the keys to understanding what was happening in Karelia.
                1. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 00: 25 New
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                  Specific reasons - vary unconditionally. But the principle “like justifies like” is fundamental in military law. If it’s rougher: "whose cow would moo."
                  1. Engineer 11 May 2020 10: 19 New
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                    DO NOT fight in any way.
                    1. The peak of mortality in the Finnish camps in 1942. summer autumn. The peak of mortality of prisoners of war near Stalingrad is winter-spring 1943.
                    In principle, this alone is more than enough
                    2. How did the Finns know about the conditions of prisoners of war in Stalingrad? Where are the documents that the deterioration in the content of prisoners of war and internees in Finland was a reaction to the ill-treatment of their colleagues in misfortune on the Soviet side?
                    3. What do Finns care about Germans, Italians and Romanians near Stalingrad?
                    1. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 10: 36 New
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                      You out of thought or deliberately distort the formulation of the question.
                      The rule of international military law is that if during the war, party A did something (or, in the case of a coalition war, any member of coalition A did something) and side B (any member of coalition B) “reproduced” (regardless for what reasons and what information do you have) on a comparable or larger scale - none of the members of coalition B can already blame any of the members of coalition A (unless otherwise agreed by a bilateral or multilateral agreement).
                      3. What do Finns care about Germans, Italians and Romanians near Stalingrad?

                      When the Reich threatened to use BOW - the Allies stated that a chemical attack on the troops and / or rear of any of the Allies would mean the use of BOW by all Allies и by troops и on the rear и Reich и all his allies.
                      Similarly, a nuclear strike against any member of NATO - including to Iceland and Luxembourg - means a reciprocal use of nuclear weapons by all the nuclear powers of the Alliance. And not necessarily "proportional." In both examples - Casus Foederis in crystal clear form. Now this norm is taught even at school.
                      1. Engineer 11 May 2020 10: 52 New
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                        As practice shows, the concept of international law is as extensible as the best condom.
                        In your logic, it’s enough for party B to reproduce 1% of the atrocities committed by party A in order to remove any charges from party A. No, thanks.
                        Camps in Karelia -isolated case. Convenient to study due to localization.
                        The death of Soviet prisoners of war I can at least to attempt understand, although I can’t accept.
                        Bitterness after the Winter War, food shortages, blablabla
                        I cannot understand or accept the death of civilians in Karelia. This is a heinous crime
                      2. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 12: 34 New
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                        As practice shows, the concept of international law is as extensible as the best condom.

                        Certainly.
                        In your logic, it’s enough for party B to reproduce 1% of the atrocities committed by party A in order to remove any charges from party A.

                        No. This requires not 1%, but a 50% minimum.
                        No, thanks.

                        It does not depend on you or on me. smile
                        Camps in Karelia -isolated case.

                        No. Examples of mass atrocities against the civilian population of the enemy - the Allies also "have them." Suffice it to recall at least Poland and Czechoslovakia.
                        I can at least try to understand the death of Soviet prisoners of war, although I cannot accept.
                        Bitterness after the Winter War, food shortages, blablabla
                        I cannot understand or accept the death of civilians in Karelia. This is a heinous crime

                        What you or I “accept” or “do not accept” - in this particular case does not matter. From my own personal experience, I can say that it’s immeasurably more important that the “infantry company commander and his battalion commander in place” “accept” or “not accept”. The Finns were only to blame for losing the war. But since Russia lost the subsequent world as a result, they are no longer to blame for anything.
                      3. Engineer 11 May 2020 13: 22 New
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                        Statement of a question
                        The question is the causes and scale of what happened in the Karelian camps with Soviet prisoners of war and forcibly displaced civilians.
                        The goal is to develop as unbiased and unemotional as possible own an assessment of what has happened based on available data and personal moral tools.
                        The norms of international law regarding the punishment of war crimes and crimes against humanity do not matter to me with this approach. In order to give an assessment to Uncle Petya, who beats his wife drunk, I do not need the Criminal Code and the Russian Federation AK
                        Moreover, clarification of the formal legal status or its absence in prisoners of war and forcibly displaced persons is important for understanding the reasons, but is not a primacy in making assessments. This is my personal sofa study and my personal assessments.
                        Isolated case because what happened in my opinion was explained primarily by the internal logic of events, and was not part of the general practice and prevailing views.
                        Having proclaimed the initial subjectivity of the assessment, I should only follow the logic and apply the same measure and tools in relation to ALL similar events. Therefore, what happened to Karelia and, say, the deportation of Germans from Czechoslovakia are equally disgusting to me
                      4. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 13: 32 New
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                        Such a “default” approach does not necessarily imply that there is the same Kantian “categorical moral imperative”. But "judgments on this score are rather contradictory." (c) Here is your humble servant for example smile - While still a Soviet pioneer, he absorbed Ludendorff's doctrine of "total war." Which does not know the concept of "absolutely unacceptable for moral and ethical reasons", does not recognize the "difference between the Front and the Rear" - etc. And?
                      5. Engineer 11 May 2020 13: 42 New
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                        And here there is no trap or danger until all the conclusions made by me I put in a box his brain and use for personal comprehension of history.
                        Moreover, comprehension of history is an endless process.
                        Now, if I had made conclusions and started yelling a gang # insert the necessary # into the bitch, then the danger and absurdity of the approach are obvious.
                      6. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 13: 50 New
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                        Well, OK. I admit that this approach also has the right to life. Although until the end of the century (as well as at the Last Judgment - if it still will be smile - too) I will believe that "Her Majesty the War - will write everything off." In addition to defeat.
                      7. Engineer 11 May 2020 14: 14 New
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                        "Her Majesty the War - will write everything off." In addition to defeat.

                        Undoubtedly. But everything has a flip side. There is always the risk of losing playing a promotion in a war and upholding the concept of total war. To lose totally. The Germans lost. They lost the war, lost the population. But not only. They lost history and memory. National pride in any form is spat upon and humiliated, and now the fourth generation is bashfully apologizing for what it personally did not commit. The most successful European nation was mentally trampled for centuries. It is enough to simply compare the dismay of the current Germans and the optimism of the Austrians who happily avoided this.
                        Therefore, I prefer the gallant wars in the style of the 18th century.
                        "French gentlemen, would you mind shooting first?"
                        Victory is pleasant, defeat is not painful. Although with this approach, wars are more likely to be stimulated than condemned.
                      8. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 14: 31 New
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                        Sorry, but you seem to be not you know the modern “felkische Deutschland” - not the one that the (so far) mainstream (so far) politicians represent. Attitude - "but it is necessary to repeat!" - there is already really strong enough. And increases every day. Moreover - this is a characteristic German-pedantic-thorough - not the same as the "proud" ribbon of the new Russian in the "beh" - mood. Interestingly, the so-called. "Russian Germans" and the so-called "Russian German Jews."
                        By the way - it wasn’t worth it for me to talk about the Russians who are useful to us - But still - supporting ADH, etc. - you commit the rudest AshShibka. Having come to power, she will be the first to bite you. Something like Comrade Lenin staged a Revolution in Germany (unsuccessful - fortunately for the Germans - true).
                        But yes - in the "Jomini wars" - there is still some kind of inescapable charm. good
                      9. Engineer 11 May 2020 14: 47 New
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                        Sorry, but you don’t seem to know the modern "felkish-Deutschland"

                        No research done. Really, I know badly.
                        With the Germans, there was communication along the fan line in the early 2010s. It was funny to see how healthy men, even in an informal setting, turn around with their ears so as not to indicate sympathy for anything that can be interpreted as a “right deviation”. Apparently already reflexively))
                        For me, the Germans are uniquely shocked. In terms of doublethink, optimism, attitude to life, etc.
                        Dull faces in Munich are painfully similar to autumn Moscow.
                        With the Austrians, without any problems, he danced in the Volksgarten. Looking at the Germans closer to 30 I can not imagine them dancing. They apparently all life ends after 22 years and a drunken hangout in Ibiza.
  • Zementbomber 8 May 2020 02: 52 New
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    It is characteristic that Marshal Mannerheim personally did not participate in the proclamation of the "Great Finnish" claims, but, of course, they could hardly have been voiced without his sanction.

    Suddenly - Marshal Baron Mannerheim - was not "omnipotent," even when he was both the President of the Republic and the Commander-in-Chief and a living National Hero to the heap. And the "Lapuas movement" for "Great Finland is important to the Urals" laughing - It was banned in Finland before the Fuhrer Adik came to power in Germany - all of a sudden.
  • Zementbomber 8 May 2020 03: 01 New
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    Finns, unlike Romania and Bulgaria, and even Hungary, were actually allowed to evade "compulsory" participation in the war with Germany. It is possible that the personality of the Finnish leader, a brilliant officer of the Russian imperial army, Baron Karl Gustav Mannerheim, regent, and then the President of Finland, played a role in this. The main thing for Moscow in the last months of the war was the establishment of perpetual good neighborly relations with Finland.

    ЕПРСТ ... - and this nonsense propaganda - an article that considers itself a "kosher" resource in the "History" section? negative Google at least at the level of RuViki: "When did World War II end for Finland?" and the Lapland War. That the Finns bravely and successfully fought in 1944-45. against the Germans - I read the October Octobrist in the Soviet editions, EKLMN! (what drove into the fierce deed of the school teacher of history laughing )
    1. Octopus 8 May 2020 05: 58 New
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      Quote: Zementbomber
      an article that considers itself a "kosher" resource in the "History" section?

      I see you here recently. The History section of this site is a rather peculiar place. Hammer in the search for "Stalin Priest", for example.
      1. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 06: 44 New
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        Um ... I looked. The guys from the indigestible NWCCBT - really think that such wooden-wood jokes will help prevent the “Russian Maidan”? laughing
        1. Octopus 8 May 2020 07: 09 New
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          I have two so-so news for you:
          1. You will be banned pretty quickly here.
          2. No, you are wrong. Unfortunately, not all supporters of the idea of ​​the Russian-Soviet empire are on a paycheck at a catering establishment there or some other places. There are enthusiasts, and not so few.
          1. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 07: 48 New
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            1. Well and - Damn Rogatenky with sim.
            2. Reasonably TsTSO - I understand it. As I understand it, the fact that this will not change anything. smile
            PS In any case, thanks!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Zementbomber 8 May 2020 03: 12 New
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    "Great" Finland. Invaders, but not quite Nazis?

    "Pulling an Owl on the Globe - has the right only GUR MO Ukraine!" laughing laughing
    But seriously - do not need it so - the little bird of the song “ug-wow” - it hurts a lot! laughing
    There were no Finns in 1941-44. no "Nazis." Even half-all. Although cruelty - they certainly did. Like all "relatively large" participants in the war - even to the "loving Russians" (Oga, yes bully ) Slovaks. And like the USSR, including
  • FRoman1984 8 May 2020 06: 45 New
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    Quote: Sniper Amateur
    in 1944 it would be worth drowning this whole Finnish Nazi rot in the Karelian swamps.

    Stupidly would not work. It’s just too expensive for you.

    With the Germans it turned out the same, the Finns - not a couple. In 1944-45, the Soviet Army was no longer inferior to anyone in combat experience and armament. The strongest army for that period on the planet.
    1. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 14: 12 New
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      And how many of your people were you willing to put in addition for such "moral satisfaction"? Half a million? More?
      Well, according to https://countrymeters.info/ru/Germany it is not visible that the Germans "were wiped off the face of the earth"
      1. FRoman1984 10 May 2020 01: 46 New
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        Quote: Sniper Amateur
        And how many of your people were you willing to put in addition for such "moral satisfaction"? Half a million? More?
        Well, according to https://countrymeters.info/ru/Germany it is not visible that the Germans "were wiped off the face of the earth"

        No one set a goal to wipe Finland off the face of the earth; the goal would be to destroy their army.
        Losses would be substantially less than in the "winter" war, significantly. The Red Army in 1944 and 1939 - heaven and earth. This is not moral satisfaction - this would be revenge and punishment.
        1. Sniper Amateur 10 May 2020 02: 51 New
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          In the 44th - the size of the Finnish army - was much more than half a million. She was also significantly stronger than in 1939. Plus, there are either 200 thousand, or 300 thousand Germans. (I don’t remember the details, still five years ago there were conversations - but if you want, I will write to Magnum and ask). So with your "Losses would be substantially less than in the" winter "war, substantially." - you bent it strongly. It’s about like the famous separatist slogans on tanchiki in 2014 “To Kiev!” (I even saw a tank on which “to Lviv!” was painted out - though he did so with the crew about ten kilometers from Donetsk and burned nafig - the guys in it were not fartanul). laughing
          1. FRoman1984 11 May 2020 08: 22 New
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            Quote: Sniper Amateur
            In the 44th - the size of the Finnish army - was much more than half a million. She was also significantly stronger than in 1939. Plus, there are either 200 thousand, or 300 thousand Germans. (I don’t remember the details, still five years ago there were conversations - but if you want, I will write to Magnum and ask). So with your "Losses would be substantially less than in the" winter "war, substantially." - you bent it strongly. It’s about like the famous separatist slogans on tanchiki in 2014 “To Kiev!” (I even saw a tank on which “to Lviv!” was painted out - though he did so with the crew about ten kilometers from Donetsk and burned nafig - the guys in it were not fartanul). laughing

            It’s hard to say how everything would turn out. I can assume that it would be easier in terms of combat experience, experience in the use of weapons and the organization as a whole. A strong army is not one that is large in number, but one that has the best weapons and can use it. I think that the Finnish army would be actively slaughtered by artillery, as they began to do from the counter-offensive near Stalingrad in 1942-1943, before the attack, massive artillery bombardment, no unprepared infantry attacks at full height. Significantly in this case, the capture of Koenigsberg is an example of great martial art.
            After 1942, the Soviet Army began to change for the better, but by 1945 it was no more powerful on the planet at that time.
            1. Sniper Amateur 12 May 2020 22: 11 New
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              It’s difficult now to say how everything would turn out.

              That's it. And Stalin understood this.
              Significantly in this case, the capture of Koenigsberg is an example of great martial art.

              And what was there not even that "great", but even if it was just "interesting and instructive"?
              1. FRoman1984 15 May 2020 06: 42 New
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                Quote: Sniper Amateur
                It’s difficult now to say how everything would turn out.

                That's it. And Stalin understood this.
                Significantly in this case, the capture of Koenigsberg is an example of great martial art.

                And what was there not even that "great", but even if it was just "interesting and instructive"?

                With minimal losses (about 4000 killed in the Soviet army), the 130000th Nazi group was destroyed, about 40000 were killed, the rest were captured. Königsberg is not just trenches in the field, there were serious fortifications there.
                This is an example of combat experience, the experience of using weapons. And overall martial art.
  • aglet 9 May 2020 14: 25 New
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    Quote: Pavel57
    Manerheim memorial plaque from the same row.

    are you sure? there
    not a girl slashed
  • aglet 9 May 2020 14: 31 New
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    Quote: Bar1
    Something I'm confused. If the Blockade is already being hung up on Mannerheim, then the Germans, it turns out, have nothing to do with it?

    teach history, son. Germans, on the one hand, Finns, on the other hand, blocked all roads. and everyone who died in Leningrad, on the account of the Germans and Finns, is the same. he got confused ...
  • aglet 9 May 2020 14: 38 New
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    Quote: Bar1
    but not Hitler first came up with genocide

    Well? he applied it to the Slavs, at least
  • aglet 9 May 2020 14: 42 New
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    Quote: A.TOR
    “Now” Finland would be NATO with all the consequences

    Well, she’s not in NATO now, so what? did you feel much better?
  • aglet 9 May 2020 14: 46 New
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    Quote: Zementbomber
    And what about the number of survivors after being captured in the "fortresses of Stalingrad" - eh?

    Yes, even though they all died .. they died - nobody called them to us
    1. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 00: 52 New
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      Sure, not a problem! And then what are your complaints to the Finns? wink smile
      On this:
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Принимай_нас,_Суоми-красавица
      - Local "hot guys" also quite and more than fairly reacted with their memetic ones:
      How many Russians! Where do we bury them all !?
      laughing
      (The Finnish national legend claims that the phrase was not invented by their legendary cartoonist Jussi Aarnio, but was pronounced on November 30 by a young border guard on the Karelian Isthmus)
  • aglet 9 May 2020 14: 50 New
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    Quote: Sniper Amateur
    it is not visible that the Germans "were wiped off the face of the earth"

    and no one set himself such a goal. neither Stalin nor Churchill. because they live, still
  • aglet 11 May 2020 18: 27 New
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    Quote: Zementbomber
    And then what are your complaints to the Finns?

    to today's Finns, no, but what happened 80 years ago, you know? and I don’t know. but it’s clear that it was, wars, even the bloody terran Stalin, just do not start
  • toha124 13 May 2020 13: 48 New
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    Well, if someone is not a Nazi, then this does not mean at all that there are no signs of fascism in his politics.
  • Vitauts 14 May 2020 10: 19 New
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    The author of the article is a complete ... from trying to justify the war waged by the USSR in 1939. The Finns did not touch the USSR, the fact that you wanted to control the Baltic Sea and the territory of Finland in order to protect St. Petersburg does not give the right to attack neighbors and kill their inhabitants.
    By this logic, Germany also attacked the USSR to ensure security.