"To demolish and rebuild everything"

98
It seems that Russian space enterprises have seriously decided to take a “honorable” place next to domestic football and no less domestic auto industry.

On the night of August 7, the next two satellites were lost: Express MD2 and Telkom-3. From 2010, this is already 7-th unsuccessful launch, which is more correctly called a failure.





Express MD-2 was established at the Khrunichev Center together with foreign enterprises, in particular, with the assistance of the division of the Italian company Thales Alenia Space. The satellite was intended for round-the-clock retransmission over the territory of Russia, besides, it had to take on some of the functions of another Express, which 2011 did not get to orbit in August. But apparently not destiny.

The second - Telkom-3 - was also created in Russia, but another design bureau, for the Indonesian company Telekomunikasi Indonesia Tbk. The satellite was supposed to provide television and communication in Indonesia and Indochina.

The satellites were planned to be launched in May of this year, but for various reasons, the launch was postponed. 26 July is one of the last dates, but then the launch did not take place due to serious problems, for which even the satellites had to be undocked. An Interfax source in the industry explained that the problems were in the Briz-M upper stage, because of him, according to preliminary data, the current state of emergency occurred.

The general launch program according to the plan looked as follows. 6 in August in 23: 31 from Baikonur the Proton-M launch vehicle with satellites onboard starts. In 8: 44 and 9: 14 Moscow time, the Telkom-3 and Express MD2 satellites should have separated, respectively. These stages were completed regularly. But then the problems started. After separation of the satellites, the overclocking engines stopped working in 7 seconds, whereas 18 minutes and 13 seconds should work.

According to one version, the satellites and the upper stage were undocked; on the other, they remained in the upper stage.

In any case, their final transformation, into aimlessly rotating orbital debris, has already been confirmed by Roscosmos.

Information sources said that the satellites could threaten the ISS, but experts reassured everyone, assuring that the situation around the station was being monitored by the US and Russian services. If the station detects a dangerous trajectory, an evasion maneuver will be performed.

Naturally, another failure of this magnitude raised the eternal question “who is to blame and what to do?”.

Until the official reason for the unsuccessful launch has been identified, experts speculate and unanimously point out the lack of quality control in the industry. The management of the company, which has collected poor-quality equipment, is predicted of dismissal and resignation. But staff rotation, apparently, does not solve all the problems. Permutations in Roscosmos did not lead to cardinal changes - the satellites, in any case, did not cease to fall ...



On Tuesday, 7 of August, the Roscosmos Commission should come to a conclusion about the reasons for the breakdown of the launch of satellites into orbit. If the overall picture is clear: the engines of the overclocking unit have failed, then this is the reason for their refusal to find out only to be.

Telemetric information is currently being analyzed with the participation of specialists from the Khrunichev Research and Development Center, the developers of the Briz-M upper stage, and launch participants who flew in specially from the Baikonur cosmodrome.

Among the main ones there are several versions: breakdown of the control system of the upper stage, errors in the creation of the flight pattern, problems in the propulsion system. An abnormal situation occurred after the second shutdown of the accelerator. Implied and the third. But it did not happen.

The same expert named RIA “News"Version that the main reason could be the human factor. He stressed that during all the last unsuccessful launches, emergency situations occurred with accelerating blocks due to errors in the calculations of the flight task, or due to problems with switching on the accelerator engines.

In his opinion, one of the main problems of the industry is motivation of staff. Employees are extremely careless in the performance of their duties. Problems with self-discipline and elementary decency reached a new level. For example, a director who fails several starts waits until he is dismissed and does not leave his place.

“Unfortunately, I got the impression that in the space industry you just need to demolish everything and build it anew,” the expert concluded.

Total losses for Russia due to unsuccessful launches range from 6 to 8,5 billions of rubles. The satellites, however, were insured: Express MD2 in Ingosstrakh, and Telkom-3 in AlfaStrakhovanii on 1.177 billion and 240 million rubles, respectively. However, the problem is that the loss for Russia is not only in money, but also in reputation. And if we can throw our money into orbit, how many will fit, no one will say a word for it, then the cynical capitalist world is extremely intolerant of not fulfilling obligations. For Indonesia, in particular, and for the region as a whole, the loss of a satellite is uncritical, but for the first one, failure with a satellite is a blow to national prestige, and therefore to trust in the Russian cosmonautics.
What are the consequences for the perpetrators of the next accident?

Considering that for the Khrunichev Center this is already the third incident in two years, the troubles will most likely come, especially since the management managed to avoid punishment the first two times. According to a source of Kommersant-Online, which is close to the leadership of Roskosmos, no papers on dismissals have yet been signed, but hinted that heads, after all, can roll after the announcement of the official causes of the accident.

It should be noted that the current disaster occurred already after Roscosmos organized its own quality control system at the enterprises of the industry. In addition, it also occurred after the executive authorities made extremely tough remarks against Roskosmos. The current prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev (if someone is confused), intends to personally analyze the situation in the space industry, for which a special meeting will be convened. This information was received by ITAR-TASS from the press secretary of the Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. Still, seven is a magic number. The first six accidents were not enough for a large meeting ...



Experts, however, argue that in this industry, cadres do not solve everything and cannot be exhausted by permutations alone. Large-scale structural changes are needed.

Alexander Zheleznyakov, Academician of the Tsiolkovsky Russian Academy of Cosmonautics, in an interview with Kommersant FM, said that an adequate system of cardinal measures is needed to eliminate the identified deficiencies, but there are no such changes in the industry.

He also noted that product quality control is extremely important, and the experience of the Soviet Union was very useful here.

Considering the overall situation, Zheleznyakov stressed: “The problem with the Briz-M upper stages is not new. In August of last year, due to the refusal of the overhead of this type, another Express did not hit the given orbit - AM4 modification. “Breeze” has been applied for years and statistics show that its reliability is about 91%. The figure is not bad for the first years of space exploration, but now they are trying to approach 97-98%. ”

The former head of Roscosmos, Anatoly Perminov, dismissed in April 2011, V.V. Putin, also expressed his opinion on the problems with the launches.

He believes that the test should be both at the “technical and organizational stages”, and the reason for the large number of failures during launches is the lack of a unified control system. In Roskosmos, the management was eliminated, which was engaged in carrier rockets and upper stages, as a result, the complex of necessary measures before launch was not carried out, and responsibility for the failures was “blurred”.

When and on whose initiative the said management disappeared, as well as why it did not return during his leadership of Roskosmos, Perminov did not explain ITAR-TASS.

Interestingly, the statements, after every accident at launch, sound almost similar word for word, but no action other than numerous summits and angry promises in the style of "the guilty will be severely punished" - should not be. At the same time, the number of space powers tends to increase and take positions in this race is extremely dangerous. Each state of emergency at start takes not only money from the budget of the country, but also points from a piggy bank of reputation. So far there are not many alternatives besides Russia for launching satellites into orbit, but this situation is unlikely to persist for long.
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  1. +11
    8 August 2012 09: 49
    It’s not difficult to demolish, to build ... there’s no money for that. There’s no discipline, fact.
    1. Neutral
      +2
      8 August 2012 10: 28
      A bit about space


      Rich life on a grain of sand
      1. +7
        8 August 2012 12: 55
        For those who do not know the English translation, if I was mistaken somewhere, please correct.

        Look again at that point. It's here. It's at home. This is us. On it everything that you love, everyone you know, everything that you have ever heard about every person who has ever been and lived his life. The totality of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, a hopeful child , inventor and explorer, every morality teacher, every corrupt politician, every "superstar", every "head of state," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there - on a speck of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
    2. Tirpitz
      +9
      8 August 2012 12: 26
      Quote: Strashila
      no money no people for this

      Meanwhile, "our partners"
      The Curiosity rover after an eight-month flight made a successful landing in the area of ​​Gale Crater on Mars, NASA reports. Specialists of the flight control center in California Pasadena shouted with joy with a successful landing.

      A service camera installed on the rover has already transmitted the first image from Mars, which shows the rover wheel standing on the ground. “We can see the wheel,” NASA officials shout. This was reported by RIA Novosti.

      "I didn't believe it until the very end. Go crazy, everything went on schedule, as if there was not a freaky landing on Mars, but a scheduled train arrived, "Maxim Litvak, who is in the control center, told RIA Novosti. scientist from the Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

      He and his colleagues, under the leadership of the head of the laboratory of space gamma spectroscopy IKI Igor Mitrofanov, developed one of the devices of the rover - the DAN neutron detector, designed to search for traces of water and hydrated minerals.
      1. Specialist-
        +14
        8 August 2012 16: 27
        How else are insurance companies insuring these launches?
        But they were insured after all - though not the whole amount.
        A SHAME. Phobos fell, the Superjet crashed, the Mace flies, then doesn’t fly, the Glonassa fell, how much more got and exploded - to count.
        Though 1 guilty - found and put? At least ONE? Oh yes - glonassa 2 when it fell - the welder at the factory was to blame! He is definitely He!
        A SHAME.
        In the USSR-would ALL they put it up against the wall for this. All ministers, directors, and all other "leaders". Hard workers would not be touched.
        And with us - the Welder is to blame and the Breeze-M overclocking unit! So what .... is it used again and again? Why not punish those who make it?
        A SHAME !!! negative am
        1. +11
          8 August 2012 20: 54
          As long as corruption is not equated with the betrayal of the MOTHERLAND, until they are executed publicly in the square, everything will continue like that !!!
          1. +4
            8 August 2012 21: 34
            Quote: an-sar
            As long as corruption is not equated with the betrayal of the MOTHERLAND, until they are executed publicly in the square, everything will continue like that !!!

            I agree! Yes, but this is not included in the plans of our leadership! They do not need order in the country! They are only capable of drowning stations in the ocean ........ Ugh, no words .......
        2. Municipality
          +4
          8 August 2012 22: 20
          specialist
          everything is right special, everything is right, it’s not even the engineers who are to blame, but those who scored a lot of science on science, and now decided to shoe a flea overnight, it doesn’t. Those who make rockets from the general designer to the welder should be highly skilled specialists whose training has been measured for decades
    3. 0
      8 August 2012 20: 49
      Dear colleagues, everything that is happening in the military-industrial complex and the space rocket is not necessary to be surprised !!!!! For 20 years ..... huy, our State was destroyed, all science was dispersed, engineering and technological personnel were lowered to the level of homeless people !!!!!, Education: what design do you need to design a modern bachelor or master x ..... ren , with this system of education they do not know anything at all! Conducted a survey among graduates, of 30 people, only one knows a superficial idea of ​​the COMPROMATE method of applying it in practice! Yesterday I read a letter from Makarevich to the President, corruption completely swallowed us and there is nothing surprising here, but I was most surprised by the President’s answer ----- Yes, after these words: we won’t have tanks, missiles will not fly and there’s a lot, a lot of dust let us in the eye!

      PS: can you blame me, I work as a designer at the factory and I see everything with my own eyes .................
    4. Protey
      +1
      9 August 2012 06: 52
      Or maybe they also send engineers to mow the grass and clean the garbage cans, as in our enterprise? The leadership is mostly swaggering stupidity. So it turns out - "What music, such a dance!"
    5. Patriot of Russia
      -1
      9 August 2012 19: 29
      that space, that olympiad
      we have one fate now.
      but oil and gas flow properly ...
      and Putin is chosen for centuries !!!
  2. grizzlir
    +26
    8 August 2012 09: 50
    I am most concerned about the state of the military strategic equipment being put into operation. If we assemble the ICBMs in the same way, and jambs during assembly can be detected only during launch, then Russia has a rather weak nuclear sword. The launches of the same mace confirm this. It’s good that there is still on combat duty, good old missiles collected even at the factories of the USSR, with the reliability of launching and hitting a target close to one.
    1. +9
      8 August 2012 10: 30
      grizzlir
      Golden words +. Roscosmos recently painfully often began to upset.
      Telecommunication satellite, "Phobos", "Progress" - isn't it too much?
      Even with all my optimism regarding the Russian space, this is probably a bit much!
      1. +3
        8 August 2012 14: 24
        There is no need to do tragedy with this, the technique sometimes fails.
        1. +5
          8 August 2012 23: 10
          Quote: professor
          There is no need to do tragedy with this, the technique sometimes fails.


          By the way, we worked with you and the Italians on "Amos-5". So there were so many technical and not only problems! (Mainly through the fault of the Italians, voluntary or involuntary). And nothing flies in orbit. (Since last year) And soon we will help you make your own GLONASS. So it's not all bad. And for good, in spite of insurmountable differences, if we combine the potential of our countries in the space industry, then they would plug everyone in the belt far and for a long time, I'm sure. With amers you have something not very good work ...
        2. Protey
          +3
          9 August 2012 06: 57
          When "sometimes" happens regularly, it becomes alarming, but apparently not for everyone ...
    2. +5
      8 August 2012 16: 36
      for ICBMs it’s really scary ... especially against the backdrop of the failures of the Mace and slovenliness in the Russian Federal Space Agency
      1. +3
        8 August 2012 21: 36
        Quote: Civil

        for ICBMs it’s really scary ... especially against the backdrop of the failures of the Mace and slovenliness in the Russian Federal Space Agency


        At least in my memory, and this is from about the mid-80s of the last century, ALL combat training launches of missiles of various classes in service, including on nuclear submarines, were successful (he himself took a direct part in 2 launches of the RT-2PM "Topol") ... In addition, once every 3 years, bench tests are carried out on EACH rocket, which is called the full program from propulsion engines to possible oxides and cracks in solid fuel cigar moreover, all the technological processes involved in the RVO are carried out according to the system of triple control of the service personnel with simultaneous automated control of the parameters, which completely eliminates the so-called human factor (personnel errors).
        All unsuccessful launches (with human casualties) were only at the test stage.
        1. s1н7т
          0
          8 August 2012 23: 16
          It seems that those days have passed (((
          1. +3
            9 August 2012 00: 47
            Quote: c1n7

            It seems that those days have passed (((

            Thank God there isn’t because this system has not changed since Soviet times .. Her hand did not touch the reformers and effective managers ..
    3. Warik
      +2
      8 August 2012 16: 56
      Ha! By the way, our "good old rockets" were also far from ideal initially flying, how many jumbo launches were there? one regional committee knows!
      1. -4
        9 August 2012 18: 46
        but then we did not know about it, and now every first person considers it his duty to be an "honest citizen" to throw shit at everything that concerns Russia - they say they have pissed off and plundered everything, only not WE, but THEY! (aliens, probably, we are each separately all white and fluffy ")
  3. Inzhengr
    0
    8 August 2012 09: 53
    What losses from the budget does the author speak of if the satellites were fully insured by CASCO + for a year of work in space ??? And yet, Thales is a multinational corporation, headquartered and main owners in France.
    1. +19
      8 August 2012 10: 39
      Inzhengr
      What kind of budget losses does the author say

      Yes, it’s not about money here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    2. +3
      8 August 2012 14: 23
      Quote: Engineering
      What losses from the budget does the author speak of if the satellites were fully insured by CASCO + for a year of work in space ???

      Yes, if things go on like this, our companions will soon refuse to insure ...
      And yet, yes, the main thing here is not money. America, which, according to the forecasts of many political scientists writing here, should fall apart in October of this year, successfully launches satellites into deep space, launches machine guns on Mars, and we have already forgotten how to launch non-manned vehicles that began to be launched in the USSR since 1957. At this pace, we will soon begin to build a fifth-generation fighter with a piston engine.
  4. Gocha kurashvili
    +8
    8 August 2012 10: 00
    Or maybe the bitches arranged a money laundering for themselves, such a veiled one ??? They didn’t launch them, but denezhek was cut down with interest.
    1. Inzhengr
      +3
      8 August 2012 10: 21
      Also such thoughts were, spit on the authority of Russia, the dough was cut down and driftwood ...
  5. pepelacxp
    +2
    8 August 2012 10: 10
    half a year gave Popovkin to mend
    let it work, I think things will get better anyway last year 6 starts unsuccessful in this while one
    I hope this is a positive trend
  6. anchonsha
    +3
    8 August 2012 10: 19
    It’s even a shame that the space industry was no longer driven further ... One of those industries where one could constantly reap laurels and respect. It’s just that there are no specialists, and no one is afraid of responsibility - in which case you can blame it on a hill, they stole the good of money. And Small Britain with money will accept even the devil.
  7. vosovec
    +13
    8 August 2012 10: 24
    Quote: Strashila
    That's what discipline is not, a fact.

    In my opinion, the issue here is not discipline. It's just that the imbalance in higher and vocational education, which began in the mid-90s, has already begun to affect. There are too many traders, lawyers and economists. If this goes on and soon it will not be possible to launch satellites, we will not be able to make the "Ilyich" bulb ourselves. And after all, this tendency can be traced in all branches of production - SADLY somehow it becomes
    1. +10
      8 August 2012 11: 02
      100%.
      The system of secondary specialized and higher education has been destroyed.
      Broken production chains and lost the experience of several generations of rocket launchers (both strategists and space).
      There are no large-scale tasks (Energia-Buran, the lunar race, nuclear missile parity with the United States, etc.), in the solution of which the necessary experience is gained.
      Accordingly, the culture of production is lost, which is very sad, because space exploration is one of the few industries that functioned adequately in the USSR.
      Corrective action requires radical measures, beginning with personnel.
      1. staser
        +1
        9 August 2012 03: 14
        The system of secondary specialized and higher education has been destroyed.

        They forgot to mention the average.
    2. Goga
      +8
      8 August 2012 11: 16
      vosovec - Colleague, where did you see Russian-made bulbs right now? Even those that are considered Russian and those here we only stick together, and the base and flasks are brought from China. And you wrote correctly about education, and with the school reform that profusenko conducted, we will never have either the Korolevs or the Kurchatovs — there will only be popovkins, kirienki and chubais ....
      All this is sad ... negative
      1. vosovec
        +5
        8 August 2012 12: 45
        That's the whole point of what they are trying to make of us a conveyor for assembling "consumer goods" and low-tech. Now the truth is beginning to appear on TV about the need for technicians and engineers, but the propaganda of creative professions had to be dealt with 10 years ago. Then today we might have reached the level of production of the USSR in the early 80s.
        And with our entry into the WTO, it’s just a rash. All our attempts to revive high-tech industries will be stupidly strangled by economic noises
        1. Goga
          +1
          8 August 2012 13: 04
          vosovec - Colleague, the promotion of technical professions is a necessary thing, but the trouble is that the level of teaching technical disciplines is catastrophically low. I can’t say anything about graduates of elite (Moscow) universities, but those guys who come after our "technical" university simply do not have any proff. training and the guys are not stupid - they just do not teach them anything - but why? They took money for training and this is where the process of "learning" ends ... So there is a diploma, but no specialist recourse
          And I don’t want to talk about the WTO - not by night IT will be remembered ... negative
        2. Protey
          0
          9 August 2012 07: 02
          On television, which zombies the people, there are only businessmen, managers and cops! And even all sorts of freaks - "stars". So choose the way young people!
    3. 0
      8 August 2012 17: 38
      Also plus. Only recently, in one of the topics, I wrote about the possibility of creating control systems over the air and all this was perceived skeptically and found no support. Although I mentioned that on such a basis - like Soviet tech. circles - experience was gained among the masses. Passion for technology was massive. Do not blame everything, I will say harshly, here on the site there is one wise chatter and absolutely nothing more. Really, no one will even lift a finger for anything. And in my environment in life there is practically no one who would mess with some kind of technical creativity. Nobody needs anything and is not interested. Literally, I am the only one I know, something else is a little messing around with this and that. People do not want to do work even for money. Recently I called up with one programmer who talked wisdom to me for 3 hours on the phone, but as it came to business, then ... Although I was ready to pay good money. And everywhere perfect optionality, punctuality and infantilism. Despite the fact that I myself on a personal scale of assessment in this I evaluate everything on 10 out of 100 ... (In addition to punctuality and initiative - I always try)
      Blah, blah, blah ..., blah, blah, blah ...
      For all that, relatives have long since been everywhere hanging around, etc. Based on professionalism, there is no selection. I have a red diploma, my acquaintances have it - everyone is unemployed ... In fact. Although, of course, everyone managed to find wages wisely. From 1 to 5 million (so far) every year everyone earns. But no one found a place in the workplace. For there in the posts for a long time all the connections.
      I personally went and talked to a factory in my city - with Ch. engineer and deputy. directors. He explained that I can, they said there are no such volumes of our project, maybe in about 15 years .... Now the plant has completely died ... But the director’s son-in-law was the beginning. workshop. I am sure that in a pair of key areas he is zero, against me ... But, now they are all without work ...
      Or, for example, a different layout. I have in aggregate dozens of higher educations, because I get paid for the work of students who do not want or do not pull themselves. But they won’t hire me, because no specialized diploma and work experience ... Potential - side. Although, I would pass many specialties stupidly externally ... For a year I can do the workload of 1000 people, because everything is computerized. But, in the real sector, nobody cares for me. Of course, now I have settled myself and I need to offer a salary of 500 thousand per month to lure. And once they didn’t take me to 15000. It was simply not interesting to anyone that I could.
      And I could, for example, make a modern education system in Russia, well, I’ll clarify it by technical specialties. For in the universities taught perfect nonsense. I know the situation and can speak concretely and in depth.
      For example, all settlement and design work should be done strictly on a PC.
      1. -1
        8 August 2012 17: 39
        Abroad for a long time already generally paperless technologies, and at us. process as in the 70s. Paperless technologies - for example, when the design calculation is done in the Matkad environment - transferred to the Pro \ Engineer - control is transferred to the CNC machines and robots - the part is performed according to all calculations, paperless drawings and with the appointment of all processing modes - all in a single complex. So does Toyota. In some places in Russia it is applied, but it should be everywhere.
        I am not a genius in this, there is a certain level, but it did not develop above real needs. This is how all the potential in Russia goes to W because of inept managers and corruption - nepotism ...
        I can say for sure - there is only one regression in education. I could turn it all over, but they won't be allowed to. Knowing the ins and outs, I would destroy this whole "kitchen" of the mess.
        But, I think this is my next statement into the void ... request
        1. +4
          8 August 2012 22: 12
          Quote: vvvvv
          But, I think this is my next statement into the void ..


          You are right in your own way, colleague. It remains only to add ...
          1. -2
            9 August 2012 03: 17
            Atlantists are not "what's between the lines" ... They are very motivated and active. Of course, one should not expect such qualities from the layman. And I would like to believe in the potential of our people. After all, under the USSR they could. Although, perhaps, a lot is due to authoritarianism and totalitarianism ...
      2. +1
        8 August 2012 21: 59
        Quote: vvvvv
        Do not blame everything, I will say harshly, here on the site there is one wise chatter and absolutely nothing more


        A lot of wise and smart people. You are right, everything goes into boltology. It’s time to get down to business from words (I’m not calling for arms, God forbid). There are plenty of people on this site to be organized into something (a party there, a sect, etc.).
        1. 0
          9 August 2012 03: 33
          Well, decentralized network structure is adequate for time ...
          In addition, a number of key concepts need to be introduced. for example, self-organization, i.e. so that the elements of the structure can independently connect to it. But, there are more complex points on which it is more difficult to formulate a concept. For example, its doctrine, etc., reliability and security. Although, I could ... But, someone would not like the complexity ... There should be roles and their functions. By the duplicate principle. For example, 10 roles and 100 people, i.e. 10 for each role. If 1000 people, then 100 for each role. The difference would be in levels, i.e. similar to rating. Only at a certain level would the concept of level of trust appear. At a certain level, relevant information would be available.
          With a simplified approach, any "party there, a sect and so on" that wants to enter the existing spheres of influence will face a fiasco with disastrous consequences. The human factor is the most unreliable business ...
          1. +2
            9 August 2012 06: 57
            The idea is interesting, the only question is to whom it is still interesting. If only the two of us, it will be just an exercise for the brain.
            1. -3
              9 August 2012 23: 47
              And yes and no, and not only ... smile
              In life, I and other people have to deal with the spectrum of affairs, and only a few devote their lives to one cause. This is a sacrifice of their life to the cause.
              This is not necessary for us. Usually, I launch several global directions in business and hobbies, without abandoning one and devote time to each of them by coincidence. This is the only way people can get involved. In reality, people see that "you have to give up everything and do it." That is why no one will support. But to contribute as much as possible is healthy.
              And the majority will think that we are delusional here, chat and everything will die out. But, I will "upset" - all these thoughts have been swarming with me for a long time and have some progress. God forbid, if everything works out for me in one case, the topic will be activated. And even immediately there are quite interesting and really useful things that you can do. I already know what it is.
              For example, it may be a closed group on a future site. And there may be invitations there. Although something is already there even on test hosting, it really takes another year to get an adequate start. For many parameters and opportunities for users, such sites do not yet exist. Anyone can do business there. Not only, of course. The function of this site, as a platform for discussion, I will not intercept. I will do what is not. The materials on the site already have unprecedented access control options ... For example, they may be available only to this group, but it is also a plus to restrict access by a number of parameters. And the groups themselves can be many, where membership is also on a number of parameters. Those. the system is very flexible.
              And there may already be at least exercises for the brain, at least something else. It doesn’t matter if at first there will be a couple of group members.
      3. Protey
        +2
        9 August 2012 18: 15
        vvvvv, I understand you perfectly, I face these problems every day. And when my immediate superior told me - "Nobody needs your initiatives for x ... we must stupidly follow the orders of the management!", I realized that there was a dead end. I think this is happening everywhere and there is nothing surprising in the fact that somewhere exploded, sank, crashed or even flew away, hell knows where!
        1. -2
          10 August 2012 00: 03
          This was one of the factors why I quit.
          He worked in the department for 2 days and an accident occurred. About 5 people arrived and I was hooked, for extras, probably. And only I began to study the scheme of operation of the equipment and after 30 minutes I said what should be done - adjust the relay response range according to the instructions. But no one listened to me, everyone is experienced there, and I'm a beginner. And they regulated it at random ... They screwed it up so that it wouldn’t work ... That is, I think that since then the buffer very expensive station batteries can wildly recharge ...
          As an electronics engineer, objectively, I would rate myself from 100 to 2 ....
          And when I see specialists to a greater extent worse than me in different areas, then in shock. Because always considered himself a dunce ... winked
          And in what area do you specialize?
          1. Protey
            -1
            10 August 2012 06: 36
            Television broadcasting center.
            1. -2
              11 August 2012 14: 32
              Yes, if you know signal transmission well, then this is a dream ...
              If you still know what devices available on the market can be used to build your own system ... I’m thinking about a radio control system ... Promisingly. Available too specific. The universal is more interesting - you can sharpen it for a range of goals.
  8. slas
    +8
    8 August 2012 10: 34
    “Unfortunately, I got the impression that in the space industry you just need to demolish everything and rebuild everything,” the expert summed up And I got the impression that you all should be kicked out to hell and re-recruit SPECIALISTS and not you for
    1. Inzhengr
      +10
      8 August 2012 10: 52
      Specialists need to be raised, and this takes several generations, the loss in the near future is irreparable.
      1. Protey
        0
        9 August 2012 19: 37
        At our radio enterprise, the head of the laboratory was a young man (naturally from the circle of "friends") who could not distinguish the resistance from the capacitor. Now he is the deputy director! We are raising specialists!
    2. +16
      8 August 2012 11: 18
      It is impossible to recruit specialists in this area. I, as a former designer, affirm this categorically! Designers, and in this area the whole subsequent chain, except for janitors and cleaners, PIECE GOODS! These people are grown by long and tough selection. On average, one in 10 to 12 people who come to work. The rest are eliminated. In addition, the previous chain of master teachers should be preserved. If this chain is broken (for any reason), then - EVERYTHING! The industry must be started anew. The industry should be constantly fueled by youth, who should ideologically want to work here and nowhere else. No money will make a dumb or slop work in good faith. In such industries, it is often impossible to check the quality of work at every small stage, but in the end everything turns into a disaster.
      1. +2
        8 August 2012 17: 46
        My colleague, with a "Phystech" education, once calculated shells for missiles in Mias and was early. department, and now he is engaged in solving problems for students for money and tutoring in physics and mathematics ...
        Should I continue the conversation further ?! Sitting at home, he can earn 50 thousand without unnecessary worries and responsibilities.
    3. +3
      8 August 2012 11: 33
      The management of the enterprise, which has assembled low-quality equipment, is predicted dismissals and resignations. But rotation of personnel, apparently, cannot solve all the problems.

      Yeah, first of all, small bosses and simple engineers will fly. Ana in their place there is no one to put !!! It is a fact
  9. +6
    8 August 2012 10: 34
    What is happening in the "Russian space" is called a simple capacious French word - sabotage !!! And in general, our country is no better. There is no need to entertain illusions, my friends ...
  10. +7
    8 August 2012 10: 59
    Eh, Russia, Russia! The little that we have that is authoritative in the world, and that we will pass. Deeper and deeper into What? If from a country educated and industrially developed we have already turned into a country of coffers and thieves, then the result is obvious. By the way, one of the talented leaders, the Minister of Heavy Industry of the USSR Sergo Ordzhonikidze, said: "Every flaw has a SURNAME, NAME AND PATTERNITY." Then everyone knew it and worked accordingly. And now - irresponsibility, lack of qualifications, unwillingness to work in principle and impunity. All! Have arrived.
    1. 0
      8 August 2012 17: 54
      And where is the demand and worthy payment of those. specialists ?! So they go to study for managers, lawyers, economists and anti-crisis workers ...
      I trained as a technician for a factory, received a red diploma, then got a tower. But no one offered me a job ... Although, I had full initiative and desire to work at the plant. Those. education - business for the sale of diplomas, on which the mission ends ... So, one university has a portal for distance education, etc. But, as a student receives a diploma, it is cleared from the portal and, hello. Chill out Vasya. I paid the money, got the fiction of education ... Even I, the same "Vasya", and I understand that you cannot break ties with people, but you need not only to break the dough from them (like a university), but also to use the potential.
      And I have my own project on this score, but so far it has difficulties.
  11. +1
    8 August 2012 11: 04
    All the problems are that people are not interested in working much and working well, the fruits of a commodity economy. somehow I read that Hu Jin Tao disdained the progress of the economy in Russia, was forced to agree with him when I rode it by train this summer, as it was in the 80s, almost everything remained the same (I'm talking about medium and small cities of Russia) ., as well as a lot of devastation and garbage
    1. vpm
      vpm
      +2
      8 August 2012 13: 39
      somehow I read that Hu Jin Tao disdained the progress of the economy in Russia
      And without Hu Jin Tao it is clear that since the collapse of the USSR, there has been no progress, only eating up the remnants of former power. The fact that this power was enough for 20 years of eating simply speaks of what groundwork was made in the Union.
  12. +2
    8 August 2012 11: 13
    Well, even to drive those few who at least understand something in this matter and will not be completely kicked out because the managers of financial consultants and other hangers-on take the Chief designers and engineers.
  13. Bandera
    +10
    8 August 2012 11: 15
    The first factor is positive. The Proton-M rocket carrier can easily launch satellites and modules into orbit.
    The second factor is extremely negative. Rough errors were allowed in the design of upper stages for satellites and the interplanetary module (Phobos-Grunt). This indicates a low technical training of specialists, poor discipline and lack of quality control.
    The third factor is chronic negative. The training of technical specialists has become even lower than the level of the Soviet period. Educational institutions are divorced from production; they do not receive applications for high-tech products. Patents that are received by university professors are not widely used in industry. This is a personal experience, true in Ukraine, but the situation in the neighbors is no better.
    1. +1
      8 August 2012 11: 24
      All our states have left the USSR. Why should Ukraine be different?
    2. +3
      8 August 2012 22: 56
      Quote: Bandera
      The training of technical specialists has become even lower than the level of the Soviet period.


      A young graduate of the university with a diploma in radio electronics comes
      TsKKP and does not know elementary things. To the question of how he studied well and excellently in private conversation over a glass of tea, he told that in the first university (rather prestigious), the credit was 300 dollars, session 1500, writing a diploma 5000, and a state exam 15000. So such experts appeared. Moreover, he has a dad himself a wealthy businessman, and apparently he also got to our vacant position for a reason .. It was in the early 200s. Moreover, such cases are not isolated.
      True, there are other examples - the lieutenants came mainly to be techies, graduates of Baumanka, sensible guys will not say anything, but categorically refused to go to the defense industry and space (salaries and all that). But still, we managed to persuade the whole four romantics go to work in specialized space research institutes and design bureaus (he ran around and worked on communications, just get it! guys for the country will disappear in system administrators and managers). I still keep in touch with them - in spite of the mess and incompetence of the new hands of the leaders, they are working successfully and in good standing. At the end of the year, for example, two should go to Israel to establish a GLONASS station (Popovkin seems to have agreed after Putin’s visit). If the ratio of the first to the second would be as in my case
      1/4 could not lose optimism unambiguously. But if the opposite is true ..

      Quote: go_by
      In general, the leadership of both enterprises and the country is clearly inadequate.
    3. -1
      9 August 2012 11: 26
      Quote: Bandera
      This indicates a low technical training of specialists, poor discipline and lack of quality control.

      You are wrong in this, it is not a matter of specialists, but the fact that electronic boards are made in Taiwan.
  14. +5
    8 August 2012 11: 23
    In every industry, there were divorced all kinds of managers and various hangers-on, 10 people in the department, and one or two employees work, the rest are wiped by pants or relatives of officials, devouring the salaries of those who work, these are not empty words, I go around country on business trips everywhere
    1. go_by
      +5
      8 August 2012 16: 44
      I work in a design office. 3 people really work. Of these, 2 are pensioners. There is no one to check the work. In the drawing, only the signature of the constructor. Young graduates work on average for six months. Then they leave. The salary is scanty. Previously, the design documentation was checked thoroughly, and then there were errors. Now, if something has worked, it’s luck. The situation is widespread. In general, the leadership of both enterprises and the country is clearly inadequate.
    2. Protey
      0
      10 August 2012 06: 39
      Absolutely to the point!
  15. in reserve
    +3
    8 August 2012 11: 24
    The Americans are doing fine, but we, as always, are back in the ass "FOR HOLDING IT IS OFFENSE".
  16. +6
    8 August 2012 11: 26
    Well, if again this topic, then I agree with the respected 11Goor11 ↑
    "Stop whining that the fall is definitely bad, but there are much more launches, and therefore the probability of failure is greater.
    Launch Data
    2011
    country ______ total / unsuccessful

    Russia _______ 32 / 4

    USA _________18 / 1

    China ________18 / 1

    EU _____ 7 / 0

    Japan _______ 3 / 0

    India _______3 / 0

    Iran _________ 1 / 0

    Sea Launch_1 / 0

    2012
    country ______ total / unsuccessful

    Russia _______ 15 / 1

    USA _________8 / 0

    China ________11 / 0

    EU _____ 4 / 0

    Japan _______ 2 / 0

    India _______1 / 0

    Iran _________ 1 / 0

    DPRK _________ 1/1 "
    1. +8
      8 August 2012 14: 31
      Yes, you drew an optimistic tablet:
      China - 29 launches - 1 unsuccessful.
      Russia - 47 launches - 5 unsuccessful.
      Total, in China, 1 failed at 29, in Russia 1 failed at 9,5.
      Is there anyone else laughing at the expression "Chinese quality"?
      1. +6
        8 August 2012 14: 53
        So after all, they have it for this - fuck ... t they can (and they put) to the wall in two counts, but with us they all threaten with a finger.
      2. staser
        0
        9 August 2012 03: 20
        And why did you decide that the relationship is straightforward? With an increase in launches, if I am not mistaken, failures will increase not only in the absolute, but also in the relative version.
    2. -1
      8 August 2012 21: 55
      in this table 6 missiles of the Ukrainian assembly are added to the Russian missiles. This is Zenith and 1, or 2, I don’t remember exactly, Dnepr-ex "Satan", though still Soviet, modified in the Dnieper from Russian arsenals ... I’m like a bum, mulberries are not particularly outraged by the fact, there are 2/3 of the components - Russian, nuuu just like that, for fans of statistics.
  17. +12
    8 August 2012 11: 28
    I may be too categorical, but I think that the policy of weakening the state initiated by Gorbachev continued by Yeltsin and his follower has borne fruit in the space sphere.
    I believe that the sale of state property to private hands is simply disastrous for Russia. We are not ready for such experiments. The mentality is not the same. Here is the deplorable result of all the reforms.
    Naturally, with such a course there will be neither state control, nor quality, nor responsibility, nor patriotism, nor morality.
    The dough cult today is above all. But this cult we have is special, homegrown, immoral and very cynical. This is a real cancerous tumor that will gobble up everything and everyone. Hence, corruption and lawlessness, and much more.
    The author, well done, that touched on the topic of motivation. I think this is the starting point of any success, victories and achievements. In my opinion, the degree of this very motivation is already extremely low. If you used to think about your homeland, now now about yourself.
    Like this...
  18. +7
    8 August 2012 11: 30
    snickering bitches in Roskosmos
    1. 0
      8 August 2012 11: 39
      Thanks for the picture amused.
    2. Protey
      0
      9 August 2012 18: 57
      Can they run as a Squirrel and Strelka? For experiments and testing of upper stages!
  19. +1
    8 August 2012 11: 59
    I agree that there is no liability! The punishment of dismissal does not scare anyone!
  20. sribnuu
    -5
    8 August 2012 12: 19
    Once - randomness! Two is a coincidence! What about three?
  21. Andrey64
    +1
    8 August 2012 12: 34
    I think not everything is so simple in the "Danish kingdom" ... It is very beneficial for someone to discredit us in the space industry, where we could successfully compete.
    interesting analytics on Phobos-Grunt 'y: http://samlib.ru/k/koganickij_g_a/openedleter_2.shtml
  22. +4
    8 August 2012 12: 52
    The hands of our officials are destroying all significant industries and educational institutions and science. In the eyes of bureaucrats, the dollar is stuck and sticks to their hands more and more.
  23. sapulid
    0
    8 August 2012 13: 20
    You know, I didn’t understand why the article was being neglected. Informational with an attempt to analyze.
    Well, failures. Crude missile. Bred to earn and just survive. The staff needed to be finalized, who is in business, who is in the grave, and who is to the adversary .... Former suppliers over the hill, who did not keep production, and who are unacceptable, as a potential adversary.
    Leadership, a separate topic. Who, only in your pocket, who is not only, but a mediocre relative ....
    Break everything and start from scratch? I'm against. An example of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward.
  24. sribnuu
    +2
    8 August 2012 13: 42
    Well, where are you the new Korolev?
    1. Eugene
      -1
      8 August 2012 14: 03
      I wonder what school he graduated from? Probably Ukrainian.
      1. sribnuu
        0
        8 August 2012 14: 22
        Kiev Polytechnic Institute! wink
        1. 0
          8 August 2012 15: 27
          so that Ukraine’s entrance into our common economic space, we’re not encroaching on your sovereignty wink
        2. +1
          8 August 2012 16: 11
          Sergey Pavlovich just finished Baumanku;) And he studied at the KPI for the first two years.
    2. Shulz-1955
      0
      8 August 2012 15: 25
      such are born once every 100 years, you have to wait a bit, these are people from God
      1. Phoenix193
        0
        8 August 2012 17: 50
        Trust in God, but do not make a mistake yourself! ) Now it is very important to create such conditions so that such people would work for the good of OUR homeland and not go "unsuitable" to plant Mars rovers under UWB flags ...
  25. gerome
    0
    8 August 2012 14: 16
    First you need to look directly at the salaries of technicians at the enterprise and superiors (and not put them together and display the average temperature in the hospital). View the ratio of the number of bosses to subordinates. If the performers are paid directly as much as 20 tys re per month, while the bosses pay themselves salaries of 150 tys re, then what do we want?
  26. thatupac
    -3
    8 August 2012 14: 48
    You are all strange. Technique and technique to give failures or break. For reference:

    In 2012, Russia carried out 15 space launches so far. 1 ended in failure. By the end of the year, Russia plans to launch another 26 missiles.

    In 2011, Russia carried out 32 space rocket launches. 4 ended in failure.

    Normal statistics.

    We are always silent about successful launches. But when an accident happens, everyone starts relishing it, getting pleasure from it, shouting that Khutin Puya is on the bunk, and disperse the rest. Well, okay, we broke up. And who will do it? Liberasti or what? Ha ha ha)))) laughing
  27. -2
    8 August 2012 14: 51
    Quote: Gocha Kurashvili
    Or maybe the bitches arranged a money laundering for themselves, such a veiled one ???

    Such Bullshit was already with EBN. Grandmas were collected to place on the moon a type of business card of citizens, for money, of course. The rocket didn’t reach the moon, they snapped, it happens, however. And the money is bye.
  28. lm_
    +1
    8 August 2012 14: 54
    I have more suspicion that among the programmers of Roskosmos, a mole has lurked
    1. Shulz-1955
      -2
      8 August 2012 15: 27
      It's hard to check
  29. V world
    -2
    8 August 2012 14: 59
    And in general, here is our bad type technique? !! The collapse of our space industry is being taught to us through the media!
    Is it really not clear that all of our projects (including the recent arrival on Mars), in which NASA and American stakeholders are involved, are working. Everything flies, turns, transmits ... and there are no problems and questions for Russia!
    As soon as we decided to implement our project for the development of near space, satellites rained down. And then we decided to establish relations with Indonesia, and here you have both the Superjet and their Sputnik, which was part of the last launch vehicle and has successfully become garbage.
    All these are industrial diversions! And they will continue to fall until all corrupt scientists and figures in such areas are put up against the wall ...!
  30. 0
    8 August 2012 15: 01
    Comparison with football is certainly too much, we did not have awesome successes on football fields. But the loss of a leading position in space exploration is serious. This position was a combination of scientific achievements, developed industry and the presence of highly qualified specialists in various fields. Consequently, we have lost all this during the years of lawlessness. It is necessary to tighten the "nuts" and take urgent practical measures, and not to transfer officials from one seat to another.
  31. andrey903
    +3
    8 August 2012 15: 24
    Our space group in the Pacific replenished
    1. thatupac
      -1
      8 August 2012 15: 56
      To replenish it, you must first create what it would replenish. And this is not so bad if there was nothing at all.
  32. Varron
    0
    8 August 2012 17: 20
    As paranoid as it may sound, what is happening really suggests sabotage (moreover, subtle, internal and well-planned). Superjet, falling satellites ...
    Once I read a statement by I.V. Stalin - "if a problem has political consequences, it is worth taking a closer look at."
    1. V world
      -1
      8 August 2012 17: 55
      In order not to be afraid of paranoia, it is better to see, for example, Indonesian and Indian sources of information IN THE ORIGINAL! and read for example the comments of their military and some experts ... and then just analyze the facts ..
      They probably think about me that some sick paranoid writes all this! to me it’s on X .... otherwise I would not write like that ...
      We must try to work with information ...
      And Indonesia is currently implementing serious projects with Russia .... so this is not the last accident on this topic!
    2. Protey
      0
      10 August 2012 06: 54
      Sabotage, this is from the field of paranoia, just a mess and collapse!
  33. Pravdoruba
    -2
    8 August 2012 17: 31
    Is it true that the accelerating blogs of the Clubs and Yars do not at the same factory ??
  34. sribnuu
    -1
    8 August 2012 17: 33
    With the union, they fell and did not take off anymore, because attempts to launch laughing there were more!
  35. Pravdoruba
    -2
    8 August 2012 17: 35
    It is necessary to test a new rocket and bring down these satellites. Cho wasted in vain. That’s the target.
    Unless of course there is a rocket, big?
  36. Phoenix193
    -1
    8 August 2012 18: 15
    "To demolish everything and build anew" - IN! This is naaaash! In the meantime, we will rebuild the gap in technology for another couple of 10 years, we will increase! He does not eat a bicycle, Duc, under his knife and that's it! We will invent a new one! An engineer at a uranium mine, and leave the managers, will be engaged in a search for new talents, from those who did not manage to treacherously dump and now they invent all sorts of graphenes! But by 2200, such photos of the American and Chinese colonies from our rover, we’ll forget that we will wash!
  37. -1
    8 August 2012 21: 36
    Yeah! At this pace, our services in space will be quickly abandoned! Shame on you! How long to? How many have already fallen in recent years? This is no longer an accident, but a regularity !!! Sorry........ am
  38. MI-AS-72
    -1
    8 August 2012 21: 51
    The Voronezh mechanical based on equipment is building the beginning of the 80s of the last century. There are no machinists of a decent level (Soviet), there are no masters of a good quality foundation, everything has been clear to everyone for a long time, problems on the 10th anniversary, provided that we begin to solve them tomorrow.
  39. SenyaYa
    -3
    8 August 2012 22: 23
    Half of the countries generally don’t know what a space rocket is !! And we produce rockets like sausages !!! You need to be proud of it !!! And then it’s falling .... but it doesn’t fall from the one who does nichrome !!!
  40. Kostya
    +1
    9 August 2012 00: 37
    "Cadres decide everything" (Stalin). Of course, now, 20 years after the collapse of the Soviet system, when everything has collapsed, specialists with a sufficient level and in sufficient numbers are needed. But training is not an isolated process from other social processes. It is impossible to overcome the crisis in the space industry without overcoming the systemic crisis. Ideological, economic, etc.
  41. Alex63
    -1
    9 August 2012 01: 13
    I want to ask a question: Who is to blame and how will they answer for this? I am a bona fide taxpayer and, it turns out, the state simply robs me, spending my part of the income tax on schools of all kinds of inventors and crooks from science and industry. My money flew into space and was lost. If I had acted in this way, having stolen even a ruble from the state, I would have been farmed for a long time. And why the state can do so. Question to lawyers: who can I file a lawsuit against? Or will we continue to endure all this mess? I feel sorry for my money. I do not want to feed thieves and crooks. When I.V. Stalin would not even have a name from them.
  42. mind1954
    +1
    9 August 2012 04: 05
    Well, the fascist colonial regime posing as
    the state, and simulating state power, does not help
    crumpled filthy "red", does not work, what is it,
    Does money decide everything? How so, scum? They did not expect ?
    And in life it’s always like that !!! We assume, and she disposes!

    Shortly before his death, Chertok said: "What kind of development of space do we have?
    maybe we have a speech when our electronics are completely ditched ?! "

    In general, I wonder how, at least, something manages to run ?!
    This must be seen in what condition this industry is, who is there now
    works ?!

    There is nothing to expect from the existing fascist colonial regime!
    He with his masters, traitors-thieves, is imprisoned only
    to plunder the country and destroy its population!

    Trying to portray some changes, in principle, without changing anything !!!
    HERE IS MY PERSONAL OPINION: "Cheap" Godfather ""!
  43. SenyaYa
    -2
    9 August 2012 05: 35
    [quote = mind1954] Well, the fascist colonial regime, posing as a state, and simulating state power, does not help the crumpled filthy "little red", does not work, what is it, money decides everything? How so, scum? Didn't expect it? And in life it is always like that !!! We assume, but she disposes! [/ Quote]


    Even I did not understand what country you live in ??? What kind of fascist regime ???
    Of course, I understand that you lived in chocolate during the Khrushchev period, went in the same sweatshirts ... But personally, I am satisfied with the way I am ... neice of course, but there are more opportunities than before
    1. -1
      9 August 2012 07: 00
      Quote: SenyaYA
      but there are more opportunities than before


      What opportunities?
      1. Border k
        -2
        9 August 2012 11: 49
        How what? The prochindiad continues, what disappeared?
  44. +1
    9 August 2012 14: 20
    Patriotic as cosmonautics, as well as all branches in our kingdom - the state will come kirdyk.
  45. USNik
    0
    9 August 2012 16: 22
    Wow flooded, here came a ribbon of white ribbon stop

    DEMENTIY
    Yes, it’s not about money here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Exactly! I propose a simple solution to a complex problem - to make the launches of ALL air carriers PILOTED, and the pilots should be exclusively officials of the Khrunichev Center. Then the truncated flies like clockwork !!!
  46. 0
    9 August 2012 18: 57
    In general, the article is correct, but on the issue of personnel I disagree with the author "cadres decide everything" it was and will be so.
    Since I myself work in the aerospace industry and I know everything from the inside and how many stages of control each detail and mechanism go through, and much more often the profits from state and commercial orders also go.
    So sometimes a simple hard worker thinks in whose hands the unit is millions of rubles and why the hell I will rest if I get a real penny for a month.
    And put at least twenty degrees of control from the beginning to the end of the assembly until each employee is vitally interested in what he is making about 100% speech quality and cannot be.
  47. 0
    13 August 2012 16: 02
    Space tasks are tasks for very, very cool specialists, and over the past decades there has been a crowding out of specialists with managers, office plankton and other gray public and all sorts of ballast (because I work here in the aerospace industry).
    Well, what results can you expect?