Military Review

Concept design of non-nuclear submarine P-750B "Serval"

Concept design of non-nuclear submarine P-750B "Serval"

Possible appearance of "Serval"

In recent years, the St. Petersburg Maritime Bureau of Mechanical Engineering (SPMBM) "Malachite" has been working on the direction of small coastal submarines. Several projects of this kind are offered to customers, and the newest of them is P-750B Serval. In this project, new technical solutions and principles are being implemented.

Pictures from the exhibition

The concept project of the P-750B non-nuclear submarine, which is a development of the earlier P-750, was first presented at the domestic military-technical exhibitions in 2019. Their visitors were shown a model of a promising submarine and technical and advertising materials. At the future forum "Army-2020" SPMBM "Malachite" plans to present a new detailed model of the submarine, better showing the features of the project.

Within the framework of the exhibitions, the organization-developer announced the main features of the future "Serval" and its approximate characteristics. It was announced that the new boat will receive an air-independent power plant (VNEU). With its help, it is proposed to significantly increase the duration of being under water. A modular architecture of weapons is also proposed, expanding the range of tasks to be solved.

A few days ago, the weekly "Zvezda" published an interview with the general director of "Malakhit" Vladimir Dorofeev, the topic of which was a new project of the non-nuclear submarine P-750B. The head of the design organization clarified some of the known information, as well as revealed new details and plans.

Promising solutions

The Serval concept proposes the construction of a submarine 65,5 m long and 7 m wide with a displacement of approx. 1450 t. One and a half-hull construction was used; a light hull forms the entire bow of the ship. The strong steel hull must ensure submersion to a depth of 300 m. The hull is divided into compartments for different purposes. In particular, the feed volumes are completely given over to the power plant of the original architecture.

Exhibition layout

The power plant includes two 400 kW gas turbine engines connected to generators, as well as a single-shaft system with a 2500 kW propeller motor. When driving on the surface of a gas turbine engine, air is obtained from the atmosphere, and the exhaust gases are thrown out. In the submerged position, the motors switch to a closed cycle.

To operate underwater, gas turbine engines use oxygen stored on board the boat in liquid form in insulated containers. Earlier it was reported that the engine exhaust gases are also liquefied and do not go beyond the submarine. In a recent interview, the general director of Malakhit pointed out the possibility of obtaining oxygen from a gas mixture with its subsequent supply to the engine.

Using only batteries, the P-750B submarine will be able to stay under water for three days. The use of the VNEU of the proposed type allows this period to be increased to 30 days. In addition, high speed and maneuverability characteristics are provided. Full submerged speed will reach 18 knots. Continuous range at VNEU - 1200 miles. The total range is 4300 miles.

The Serval project offers a modular weapons and payload architecture. The necessary units are located in the bow of the boat, under the light hull. There can be placed 533-mm torpedo tubes, self-defense equipment, unmanned vehicles for various purposes, etc. It is possible to replace such a payload directly in preparation for going to sea.

The presence of several torpedo tubes allows the use of the entire range of domestic mine and torpedo weapons. It is also possible to integrate the Kalibr missile system in the version for submarines. Thus, "Serval" will be able to work on various surface and coastal targets, incl. at a great distance.

Boat cutaway

An interesting feature of the P-750B is the presence of an airlock, also located in the bow. With its help, the submarine will be able to land and receive up to six combat swimmers simultaneously. At the same time, the habitable compartments will allow up to 16 people to be taken on board and delivered to the place of solving problems.

The Serval boat should use modern general ship systems, controls, etc. Due to the high automation of processes, it is possible to reduce the crew to 18-20 people. Accordingly, the volumes for their placement are reduced, which makes it possible to optimize the design of the submarine as a whole. It is envisaged to reduce the requirements for basing points. Deployment of P-750B and provision of their service is possible on existing bases fleet.

Coastal boat

Small submarines of the P-750B project, like the previous developments of the SPMBM "Malakhit", are intended to perform a variety of tasks in the coastal zone. They are capable of patrolling and fighting enemy surface or submarine ships in order to protect sea borders. It is possible to lay sea mines, conduct reconnaissance, as well as ensure the work of sabotage and reconnaissance groups.

Its small size and displacement will allow the Serval to move and fight in shallow water and in narrow areas. This significantly increases the possible areas of operation and provides significant advantages over larger submarines. Low demands on the basing points will simplify the transfer and deployment in new areas.

VNEU of a new design makes the submarine quieter than ships with other power plants. In addition, the proposed system is safer - there is no hydrogen in its circuits, which sharply reduces risks. It is planned to provide an increased resource of the units, due to which the cost of operation will decrease.

Pending order

In a recent interview, the general director of Malakhit spoke about the existence of a working prototype VNEU for Serval. This product works on a stand, is undergoing experiments and research. How soon it will be brought to a full-fledged workable sample is not specified.

The project itself of the P-750B submarine so far exists only at the level of concept and general solutions. The further fate of this development depends on the potential customer represented by the Ministry of Defense. In this regard, the timing of the appearance of the finished project and the entry of the submarine into operation remain unknown.

The military department has not yet commented on the Serval project - although an alternative project of a non-nuclear submarine with VNEU from the Rubin Central Design Bureau MT is already being implemented on his order. Perhaps the new concept and the prototype VNEU from SPMBM "Malachite" will also interest the military, which will allow the two projects to move to a new stage.

Over time, "Serval" or other small submarines from "Malachite" are able to attract the attention of foreign countries. The improved performance characteristics associated with VNEU can become an important competitive advantage in the context of export contracts.

Underwater vistas

The proposed concept of the P-750B non-nuclear submarine is of great interest, at least from a technical point of view. This project offers a number of important and promising solutions of various kinds that can positively affect the development of the fleet. Submarines of the "Serval" type may become the most important component of the Russian Navy in the distant future.

It should be admitted that not all interesting and promising projects reach practical implementation. The fate of the P-750B has not yet been determined, and the main customer has so far refrained from making statements on this topic. A promising concept from SPMBM "Malachite" may not receive development and will not reach construction and service.

However, even in this case, the bureau will be able to carry out research work on air-independent power plants and other components of small non-nuclear boats. This will provide our shipbuilders with new technologies suitable for use in real projects of the future. Time will tell whether Serval will reach construction or will it be limited only to technologies.
Photos used:
SPMBM "Malachite",
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 20 August 2020 05: 10
    It was announced that the new boat will receive an air-independent power plant (VNEU). With its help, it is proposed to significantly increase the duration of being under water.
    fresh tradition, but hard to believe .. so many copies have already been broken, but things are still there.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 20 August 2020 06: 56
      Using only batteries, the P-750B submarine will be able to stay under water for three days. The use of the VNEU of the proposed type allows this period to be increased to 30 days.

      What batteries are we talking about?
      About "traditional" lead-acid, or some other, more progressive and energy efficient?
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 20 August 2020 09: 35
        In a recent interview, the general director of Malakhit spoke about the existence of a working prototype VNEU for Serval. This product works on a stand, is undergoing experiments and research. How soon it will be brought to a full-fledged workable sample is not specified.

        Hm ... only to me, for some reason, here I remember the "trampoline person" with its layouts, with something, there "on the stands" ... projects for the development of something, there is distant .... in the distant future .... winked
        1. Titus_2
          Titus_2 20 August 2020 13: 44
          I agree with you .... again the words and besides the VNEU itself, which has not been brought to mind for a year, a big question about the diesels themselves.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 20 August 2020 20: 22
            there is generally a question of the need for such a variant of diesel-electric submarines, especially for the Russian Federation and our closed seas, in some places we need a smaller minimum draft up to 3-4m (Black Sea Fleet / BF), and for this the submarine must be increased in length / width, in second places you need more autonomy, especially in underwater mode (SF / Pacific Fleet), and this requires a nuclear control system, thirdly, you need greater maintainability and independence from supply bases (SM), and this requires a different submarine design.
    2. smart ass
      smart ass 21 August 2020 14: 19
      Burning and not leaving the boat, how is it?
      1. Stepan S
        Stepan S 3 November 2020 23: 09
        Liquefied, not incinerated)
  2. Free wind
    Free wind 20 August 2020 05: 19
    The French built nuclear submarines of similar dimensions. Boats like "Rube". In many respects, the data is much higher.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 20 August 2020 08: 28
      Well then, you have to act like the Americans and dismiss the diesels from the fleet. Make only nuclear-powered ships. However, there are also problems here. For example, the redundancy of a nuclear-powered ship in a number of situations. Significantly high construction and maintenance costs. Moreover, in the conditions of Russia, even the existing nuclear-powered ships cannot be repaired. Diesel engines, on the other hand, are much easier to repair at ordinary CVD or repair enterprises.

      VNEU is a reasonable compromise between the advantages of a diesel engine (size, better opportunities to hide, especially in small waters with a difficult bottom topography, cost, versatility) and a nuclear-powered ship (autonomy). Like any compromise, it's not perfect. However, if you look at the market, now 6 countries are already offering boats with VNEU for export and selling them.

      New generation ultra high capacity batteries are an untested alternative. Countries that are world leaders in the production of such batteries and have truly advanced technologies seized on this. Climbing there with Liotech products is many times more dangerous than carrying liquid oxygen. For the latter, if properly operated, if it bangs, then, as a rule, after the initial explosion that turned the boat apart. Liotech's products do not differ in quality even in a peaceful sphere of use (their IPBs are always shoved into government agencies at the level of cheap Chinese IPBs from alik at a bargain price). On a boat, this is constant spontaneous combustion.
      1. ab2020
        ab2020 7 November 2020 21: 18
        In favor of batteries:
        They can be recharged while hiking. Liquid oxygen cannot be obtained in the sea.
        To get oxygen at the base, you need a lot of specialized production. those. the boat cannot be serviced in any port.
        In theory, the battery packs can be placed outside a rugged case: in removable modules.
  3. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 20 August 2020 05: 28
    The article is good, capacious ... recourse
    Submarines of the "Serval" type I can be the most important component of the Russian Navy in the distant future.

    Or they may not become ... Like a Husky ... And in the distant future, no one will know if there was such a project at all ...
    Once Herbert Wells called Lenin "the Kremlin dreamer." The situation here is much more "dreamy"
  4. bayard
    bayard 20 August 2020 05: 33
    So they only have a mockup, or a working bench model of a power plant?
    If the sample is working and produces the declared power in a closed loop, why not try it?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 20 August 2020 08: 21
      Model sample. Before the worker there are billions of rubles and years of work.
  5. maiman61
    maiman61 20 August 2020 05: 40
    Road going by walking!
  6. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 20 August 2020 06: 15
    Have liquefied oxygen tanks on board? No, thank you ...
    1. Pushkowed
      Pushkowed 20 August 2020 06: 59
      The Pakistanis have a VNEU of the MESMA system (on three French-built Agosta 90B boats). It also includes tanks with liquid oxygen on board. They don't seem to complain. But besides them, no one else bought such VNEU.

      The difference is that MESMA is essentially a boiler and turbine power plant, while the one offered by Malakhit is a gas turbine. All the "air insensitivity" of both options lies precisely in this tank with liquid oxygen, which is used instead of atmospheric air. Direct, simple, cheap and angry solution. But not the fact that it is correct. The commercial failure of VNEU MESMA is proof of this.

      However, taking into account that as things are now in Russia with VNEU, they can easily refuse, which even it better than nothing.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 20 August 2020 07: 14
        Quote: Pushkowed
        Taking into account the current state of affairs with VNEU in Russia, he can easily refuse that even this is better than nothing.

        The best Russian version of VNEU is similar to the Topaz space reactor. Well, everything is as usual with us.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 20 August 2020 07: 58
          For fans of nuclear batteries, there are a number of disadvantages at once:
          1) Heat dissipation. If in the ocean, this is another way to spot the boat. It really gets very hot.
          2) Power. It is small. Less VNEU. Well, or you need to fire a large battery (more active materials in the boat, more body drain, more cost).
          3) Price. Most delicious. It is huge. Even with uranium. Plutonium batteries generally cost space money (hundreds of millions of dollars per hundreds of watts of output), that is, in fact, the price of a boat).
          3a) The need for frequent replacement. If we take cheap uranium, then it needs to be changed every 6-8 months (production has dropped significantly in the last few months, for a boat this is already becoming ballast). If the plutonium is expensive, then it can be changed there for medium repairs. But again, in order to catch up with even the minimum capacity, I am afraid to assume how much plutonium needs to be crammed in, and at the price Ash will be cheaper, and possibly even several times.
          1. dzvero
            dzvero 20 August 2020 09: 25
            For RITEGs, the cons are true. But if an isotope element is used as a heat source for a Stirling engine, then some of the deficiencies may be leveled out.
            1. Nehist
              Nehist 20 August 2020 12: 28
              How?!!! Where will you take the heat away? This is still a problem in all submarines.
              1. dzvero
                dzvero 20 August 2020 13: 33
                The heat will have to be removed one way or another. For DVG, part of it leaves with the exhaust, part through the cooling system. In a closed cycle, the load on the cooling circuits will already be considerable and quite possibly comparable to a nuclear submarine. In the case of the turbine, serious problems are also outlined. Even on an electric drive, it is necessary to remove about 50-80 kW of heat (an electric motor of 2000 kW with an efficiency of 95-97%).
                In my opinion, isotope fuel sources will not be able to compete with the reactor. The output is not the right one. But, the heat release is relatively uniform and constant, so the cooling system will be simpler and, perhaps, it can be made passive. Plus, in conjunction with Stirling, the engine itself will take heat away from the element.
                Also, PMSM, isotope sources with Stirling is more logical to use not as a main engine, but only for recharging the battery. Those. as an air-independent generator operating under constant and optimal conditions (speed, load). The power is a maximum of 20% of the full power of the electric motor, more precisely equal to the power of "quiet running" in 3-5 knots (ie the main engine is 2000 kW, and the generator is 200-400 kW). In such conditions, cooling of isotopic elements and generator (s) as a whole should not be an insurmountable problem.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 20 August 2020 10: 29
            Quote: donavi49
            Plutonium batteries generally cost space money (hundreds of millions of dollars for hundreds of watts of output),

            Can you confirm?

            Quote: donavi49
            Less VNEU.

            It is enough to provide daily needs and a low speed.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 20 August 2020 09: 24
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Have liquefied oxygen tanks on board? No, thank you ...

      This has already happened over 100 years ago. PL Postal. Also tanks but with compressed air
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 20 August 2020 10: 21
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        This has already happened over 100 years ago. PL Postal. Also tanks but with compressed air

        The last approach to the projectile was in the 50s of the last century - "lighters", pr. A615.
        1. Pushkowed
          Pushkowed 20 August 2020 12: 36
          If in order:
          1. "Postal". Gasoline internal combustion engines. The cylinders contain compressed air. Exhaust - overboard, into the water.
          2. A615. Diesel internal combustion engines. The tank contains liquid oxygen. Exhaust - to tanks with a chemical absorber.
          3. MESMA. Steam turbine (i.e. engine external combustion). The tank contains liquid oxygen. Exhaust - overboard, into the water.
          4. P-750B. Gas turbine. In theory, this is also a kind of engine internal combustion. Yes, they say that theoretically there can be versions of a gas turbine engine with external combustion (and circulation of the working gas through the internal cycle), but the article explicitly states that on the surface it works from atmospheric air and makes exhaust into the atmosphere. This means that the connection of the "closed cycle" is ensured by bluntly supplying oxygen from the tank instead of air from the atmosphere. There can be no external combustion here - such gas turbines have too different designs.

          Now the fun part.
          Apparently, storing the oxidizer on board in a separate tank (at least compressed air, at least liquid oxygen, at least something else ...) makes sense only if the engine is used as a power plant external combustion (steam turbine, Stirling, etc ...). Why is that? Because an internal combustion engine (gasoline, diesel, gas turbine engine ...) cannot ensure complete tightness of the combustion chambers and their 100% isolation from the submarine compartments.

          The reason is the very nature of internal combustion engines. They have a combustion chamber and mechanically moving parts directly contact each other. Since there are moving parts, then there are also gaps between them and the fixed parts. Through these gaps, the exhaust gases will slowly but surely be etched into the submarine compartments.

          On the Pochtovoy with habitability it was not important anyway, but it had low underwater autonomy, so the problem with gases was not too urgent. But on the A615 it was very bad. Up to the point that only the IDA could be in the engine compartments.

          At the same time, MESMA and Stirlings work in foreign fleets without any particular complaints.

          The conclusion from here is this: VNEU based on internal combustion engines (albeit a closed cycle) is a dead-end path. You need either an external combustion engine or an ECH. And the project of the P-750B power plant is stillborn.
          1. g1washntwn
            g1washntwn 20 August 2020 14: 19
            While something is burning in the engines (even diesel, even uranium, which is simply "oxidized" differently), oxygen or its substitute and heat removal are needed. The phrase "air-independent" is purely fiction. For surface air, it is only temporarily independent.
            The whole growth of the technological level is only in the efficiency of what we burn. In fact, we are still sitting in the same cave by the fire and throwing brushwood.
            1. Couchexpert
              Couchexpert 20 August 2020 17: 58
              Well, not directly ... The fire still does not perform mechanical work (more precisely, it does, but not useful), and so we go on a little train and put into the furnace everything that emits heat, and we try to increase the technological level by changes parameters of what gurgles in the boiler.
              1. g1washntwn
                g1washntwn 21 August 2020 06: 59
                This is too soft a comparison about the engine. By cosmic standards, we are exactly what we are still sitting in a cave. Until we learn to be content with only renewable resources, humanity will be considered a virus devouring the organism on which it exists and will fly around us along a crooked road through Alpha Centauri ... well, or disinfect)))
  7. SVD68
    SVD68 20 August 2020 07: 47
    The problem of all VNEUs is low power.
  8. Glebovich
    Glebovich 20 August 2020 08: 30
    It is possible in parallel to build "cash cows" for such boats, in an unmanned version, which will go to specified points under water and transfer electricity or fuel for combat boats.
    1. agond
      agond 20 August 2020 09: 38
      Conventional diesel docks have two power supply systems, this is a diesel above water and batteries under water, boats with VNEU have three power supply systems, the first two and the third additional power plant, the latter being more complicated, more expensive and more dangerous than the first two combined, all together this is overkill , it would be logical to do with only one VNEU, if we refuse diesel fuel as a fuel, then there is no need to have a supply of oxygen on board, there is no need to store the exhaust gases on board (from burning diesel fuel) in liquid form. For boats with VNEU, it is necessary to use a unitary, single fuel that does not require the use of an oxidizer, such a fuel can be thermite mixtures based on aluminum with iron oxide, it is of course more expensive than diesel fuel, but not by how much, so that the industry could not provide a dozen PL units with this mixture. Termite checkers are ideal for a stirling job, as a high temperature point source of heat can be obtained, which is required for a stirling to work efficiently.
  9. g1v2
    g1v2 20 August 2020 09: 58
    In principle, for BF, such pl would just fit. The depths in the Baltic are shallow, there are many skerries and fjords. The enemy has anti-submarine aircraft. PM such small submarines, in my opinion, would be more in demand than ordinary ones.
  10. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 20 August 2020 10: 00
    The power plant includes two 400 kW gas turbine engines connected to generators, as well as a single-shaft system with a 2500 kW propeller motor.

    Will there be no diesels?
  11. AAK
    AAK 20 August 2020 10: 31
    All the same, rake jumping is a national sport for Russian PKB.
    Launched in the early 2010s "Lada" - and still more than 5 years "experimentally operate" the first two boats. To put it mildly, they smeared themselves with them in the waste products of design life - they announced unsuccessful childbirth and childhood disease due to genetic abnormalities, then after 2015 they said that they had already conceived "Kalina" with a supposedly completely corrected gene pool, which "will replace everything in 5 years obsolete Varshavyankas ... but neither Kalina nor raspberries ... Now another victim of Russian boat-design genetics - Serval ...
    At first glance, the layout - the displacement is 2 times less than the "Varshavyanka" and 1,5 times less than the "Lada".
    Only 4 "main-caliber" torpedo tubes are visible, just above them there are 2 more unclear what and 6 torpedo tubes on the sides for mini-torpedoes of self-defense or GPA means, all outside of a solid case, i.e. recharging of TA is not initially provided. It turns out something like the next "Baby" of the Second World War, such as fired once - and reload at the base, if, of course, you can swim ...
    Cryogenic containers inside the PC are generally something, for sure, for freezing the remains of dead submariners ...
    Well, and the "exhaust pipe" in the uppermost picture, adjacent to the wheelhouse fence, is just the cherry on the cake, just a masterpiece of hydrodynamic design ...
  12. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 20 August 2020 10: 46
    I read the article and, as if, looked through the ad unit on TV. Everything is good, everything is wonderful, everything is the best. But for some reason a lot of questions arose. They say that the boat is small. How small it is if its length is less than that of the project 677 boat by only 1,3 m, and they are the same in width. They say that the P-750B is high-speed. But its speed is comparable to the boats of Project 877 of the first modifications and is 3 knots less than that of Project 677. Trying to see the weapons from the pictures, I saw only 4 torpedo tubes of 533 mm and 6 of a smaller caliber, most likely 400 mm. Speaking of noise reduction, as far as I understand, the gas turbine engine will work under water too. Is a GTE less noisy than an electric motor? In general, there are a lot of questions.
  13. mik193
    mik193 20 August 2020 13: 13
    Liquid oxygen on board? We step on the old rake. We remember the A615 project and its nickname - "lighters".
    1. Pushkowed
      Pushkowed 21 August 2020 04: 36
      Many people have liquid oxygen on board. Pakistan operates 3 French-built boats with MESMA wind turbines based on a steam turbine (in fact, a good old boiler and turbine plant). Fuel - ethanol; oxidizing agent - liquid oxygen. The combustion products are immediately removed overboard, the released energy is transferred to the turbine only (and exclusively!) Through the heat exchanger.

      Even the Swedes in the Baltic (5 boats with VNEU are now in service) store 24 tons of liquid oxygen on board! Engine type - Stirling. Fuel - solar oil, oxidizer - liquid oxygen from tanks. Combustion products are treated in the same way as MESMA - they are removed overboard after the heat exchanger.

      Similar power plants are for 2 Singaporean (Swedish-built) and 10 Japanese boats (the latter are of their own Japanese-built, but with licensed Swedish Stirling engines). Even the Chinese have something, although they do not disclose information about the type of installation.

      Total - at least 20 boats from 4 fleets operate with liquid oxygen tanks on board... And no one calls them "lighters".

      Because MESMA and Stirling are engines external combustion. And on the A615 there were diesel engines - that is, engines internal combustion.

      In engines external combustion, the moving parts do not come into contact with fuel, oxidizer, or their reaction products. They only take energy through the heat exchanger. This means that the "chemical" and "mechanical" parts can be hermetically isolated from each other. And remove combustion products overboard (or in a separate tank with a chemical absorber).

      And in the engine internal combustion will not work that way. There, the reaction takes place directly in contact with the moving parts. Gases (not only exhaust, but also unreacted fuel vapors and oxidizer-oxygen!) Are etched through the gaps between the cylinder and the piston - into the engine crankcase. And from there, through the gaps between the crankshaft and the crankcase, into the submarine compartments. How not to take the exhaust away from the exhaust valves - some of the gases will still get into the compartments. On the surface (or under the RDP), the compartments can be ventilated, but in a submerged state - you will have to coexist with gases before surfacing. This was the trouble with the A615.

      Conclusion: The problem is not liquid oxygen. And in the type of engine. The engine is needed external combustion. They want to put a gas turbine engine on the P-750B - and this is an engine internal combustion. That's where the problem lies.
  14. xomaNN
    xomaNN 20 August 2020 14: 34
    The fact that a real breakthrough is needed in the domestic shipbuilding of non-nuclear submarines is obvious! We take revenge, sir ...
    1. agond
      agond 20 August 2020 14: 53
      Quote: mik193
      Liquid oxygen on board?

      Yes, it is dangerous, but let's say it is so easy not to light a termite block, if it is packed in a special wrapper like candy, it may survive a fire, Russia smelts about 4 million tons of aluminum per year (we are in third place) the price of aluminum at London the exchange is now $ 1500 a ton, we accept scrap at 60 rubles per kg, and the price of diesel fuel on our exchange is 46 thousand rubles per ton, that is, $ 616 a ton, this is only 2.4 times cheaper than the cost of aluminum. Sosav iron-aluminum thermite mixture: Fe2O3 = 75%; Al = 25%, that is, in 1 kg of thermite mixture 250 g of aluminum in the amount of 15 rubles, the rest is iron oxide according to folk rust, so we see that the cost of fuel for styrling in a submarine using a thermite mixture will be at the level of usual costs for diesel fuel.
  15. KSVK
    KSVK 20 August 2020 14: 48
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    This has already happened over 100 years ago. PL Postal. Also tanks but with compressed air

    The last approach to the projectile was in the 50s of the last century - "lighters", pr. A615.

    And to "carry" the stock of VVD at 400 kgf / cm2 is not "ho-ho"? Liquid sour is safer. Less pressure. And it fits into the same volume much more. The thermal insulation problem is solved by safety valves. But judging by the layout, the containers with liquid sour were placed inside a durable case. Would it be safer to place inside the lung? And the temperature outside is lower in our seas, oceans. smile
    1. Gust
      Gust 20 August 2020 17: 30
      It's all a mess. Ideal lithium batteries in a lightweight casing. No noise, no liquid oxygen, no heat trail. The rest is sawing the dough or design perversions.
      1. Ryaruav
        Ryaruav 20 August 2020 18: 32
        a reliable small-sized reactor is needed.This is the most promising way of developing medium-sized space today.
  16. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 20 August 2020 18: 27
    modularity, haha, admirals dream of a modular set of mistresses have long abandoned it in the form they want with us
  17. bk0010
    bk0010 20 August 2020 20: 25
    Used a one-and-a-half-body design

    To operate underwater, gas turbine engines use oxygen stored on board the boat in liquid form in heat-insulated containers.

    The necessary units are located in the bow of the boat, under the light hull
    Somehow somehow all this is not very happy. It would be nice for the designers to think more.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 August 2020 21: 07
      The main thing is that in this submarine all the interior equipment of the cable and everything else should be made of non-combustible materials - in this case, it will not do anything about liquid oxygen.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 21 August 2020 00: 08
        Quote: Vadim237
        don't care about liquid oxygen
        When liquid oxygen evaporates, its volume increases by almost 800 times. And it evaporates at -183 degrees Celsius. Conclusion - everything is not easy with storage, in case of problems it can jerk off illusoryly. In addition, even iron burns in oxygen, so there can be problems with non-combustible materials.
        1. Podvodnik
          Podvodnik 23 August 2020 11: 33
          even iron burns in oxygen

          If a large container with liquid oxygen is damaged in a fire in the submarine compartment, then EVERYTHING in this room will burn out, including the seals of the intake systems, all bulkheads and equipment. There will be practically an "empty room". Cable routes to adjacent compartments will burn out. Through these openings under high pressure, hot combustion products (like a flamethrower) will flow and cause the spread of fire and lead to the death of the ship. The same thing happened on Komsomolets. The entire supply of VVD through the burnt-out bulkhead was vented into the burning compartment. The pressure was about 15 kg per cm. All the seals of the intake openings, the seals of the ventilation valves were burnt out, the body lost its tightness. The boat lost stability and sank.
  18. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
    Kuzmich Sibiryakov 21 August 2020 10: 40
    Explain to me, stupid, how to power a 2,5 thousand kW engine with 800 kW (in total) with a turbine? Get loans? Do electric rays?
  19. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 21 August 2020 14: 11
    VNEU of a new design makes the submarine quieter than ships with other power plants

    Are gas turbine engines quieter?
    1. agond
      agond 24 August 2020 10: 06
      Quote: agond
      the cost of fuel for styling in the submarine using thermite mixture will be at the level of the usual cost of diesel fuel.

      A natural question arises, why in the world so far no one is building a submarine on a thermite mixture instead of diesel fuel if the prices of aluminum and diesel fuel have come close,
      the first reason is the habit of hydrocarbon fuels,
      the second reason - when burning diesel fuel, 10300 KC / k of heat is released, and the thermite mixture has only 770 KC / kg, that is, 10-13 times less, and if all diesel fuel is replaced in the submarine together with diesel and half of the batteries with thermite mixture, it is still the range of such a submarine will be several times less than that of a conventional submarine, although the submarine's submerged range will be a record one. By the way, it is not necessary to use styling, you can get by with a conventional steam turbine.
      And if, instead of a thermite mixture, we use the reaction of burning aluminum in water, then the energy will be an order of magnitude higher, although hydrogen will be released and something needs to be done with it, but if it is also burned in oxygen (yes, without liquid oxygen on board, no matter how) then a boat with such a propulsion system will cross the oceans back and forth without surfacing.
  20. Alexey Konovalov
    Alexey Konovalov 28 August 2020 10: 08
    Can someone explain why they are tormented by the unreliable, little energy-efficient technology of VNEU? Why can't a nuclear power plant be combined with the benefits of a time-tested diesel? Even in small volumes our ancestors did it in the 60s. The benefits of this combination are enormous. Most of the time, you can go on diesel fuel without burning the NPP resource when entering and leaving the port, during exercises and ordinary surface navigation. They even decided to install an atomic engine on a cruise missile, which is very wasteful for me.
  21. aries2200
    aries2200 4 November 2020 00: 10
    we have learned to draw beautiful pictures ... and layouts ... but will it go further ... manilovism in my opinion soldier
  22. ycuce234-san
    ycuce234-san 16 November 2020 21: 23
    Instead of dangerous oxygen and fuel or batteries burned under water, you can take on board a lot of liquid air (at least 3-5 thousand tons), which the industry already produces in large quantities. The air will recover in the seawater heat exchangers and rotate the air motor like in a wrench.
    It is also possible to solve the problem of air conditioning and purification of the atmosphere in the boat then simply - by low-temperature rectification of organic impurities, carbon dioxide and water and a mixture of recovered air. Carbon dioxide solidifies from the gas phase, without passing through the intermediate liquid phase, will not be present in the liquid air obtained in production at a pressure of less than 5,1 atmospheres. The boiling point of liquid air is -194,35 ° C (78,80 K), but on the planet there are places where it happens and - 70-80 ° C and the equipment on other planets works at lower values. Therefore, the boat will be as simple as an African's sneaker, safe, but very, very large, no worse than the well-known "Shark", since a lot of air will be needed: the efficiency of circuits with energy storage in a cryogenic state does not exceed 25%, which is close to the efficiency of an internal combustion engine and the energy of a liquid air 0,5 MJ / kg - total 0,13 MJ / kg, density of cryo-liquid 0,86 t / cubic, i.e. quite a value for weak batteries. Perhaps, such cryosubmarines will be used in the civilian sphere because of their simplicity and safety. In addition, there are flow-through batteries, vanadium and cerium, fuel cells on cryoliquid-methane: all these are not so safe energy carriers, but with them non-nuclear boats will resemble tankers with huge containers for consumable fluids. Well, most importantly, this is a way to start making a fundamentally new and without looking back at the past - a very simple and safe ship on liquefied air is likely to be able to do modern crisis shipbuilding without serious problems.