Ships of project 23900: self-developed universal amphibious assault ships


General view of UDC pr. 23990. Graphics of Zelenodolsk PKB


Several years ago, the Russian Navy could receive its first universal amphibious assault ships of joint Russian-French construction. However, the deal fell through, and our country had to independently develop this direction. The design was successfully completed, and on July 20, the laying of two UDCs of our own design took place at once.

From project to construction


Over the past few years, after completion stories with "Mistrals", materials on UDC's own projects regularly appeared at domestic exhibitions. There were also statements about the ability of our industry to build such ships and the imminent start of construction. However, until a certain time, real work was postponed.

In November last year, it became known that the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau, which is part of the Ak Bars corporation, will develop a new UDC project. Already in early January 2020, materials on this project, which received the number "23900", were demonstrated to the country's leadership. It also became known that in the coming months, two new UDCs will be laid at the Zaliv plant in Kerch (also part of Ak Bars).

Initially, it was reported that the ships were laid in May, but due to the difficult situation, these events were postponed. The signing of the construction contract has also shifted. According to domestic media reports, the Defense Ministry and the Zaliv plant signed such an agreement on May 22. For two UDCs the performer will receive approx. RUB 100 billion

On July 20, a solemn ceremony was held in Kerch with the participation of President Vladimir Putin, representatives of the government and the Ministry of Defense. Embedment boards are installed on the sections of the future ships "Ivan Rogov" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko".

Future ships


To date, both the appearance and some characteristics of the promising UDC pr. 23900 have been published. This allows us to assess their capabilities and potential, as well as compare with foreign models of their class.


Demonstration of materials on the project to the country's leadership, January 2020 Frame from the reportage by TV company "Zvezda"

Etc. 23900 provides for the construction of a ship with a length of approx. 220 m with a full displacement of 25 thousand tons. The hull has traditional contours and a special layout typical for UDC. So, a significant part of the internal volumes is given to the crew quarters for the landing and the deck to accommodate the amphibious, land and aviation technology. A dock chamber is organized in the stern, in which landing craft of pr. 11770 Serna or other floating craft are transported. The nasal ramp, which is typical for domestic large landing craft, is not provided.

The superstructure of the ship is shifted to the starboard side, due to which a large flight deck with a width of 33 m with six take-off positions is organized. With its help, the operation of helicopters for various purposes is ensured - the attack Ka-52K, transport-combat Ka-29 or anti-submarine Ka-27. Perhaps in the future they will be supplemented by short or vertical takeoff aircraft.

UDC pr. 23900 will be able to carry up to 1000 troops and up to 75 units. armored vehicles - depending on its type. The dock chamber can accommodate up to six boats. On the deck and in the hangar, there is space for 20 helicopters of different types.

It is known that the new ships will receive various weapons for self-defense, but its composition remains unknown. According to various estimates, the ship needs artillery and missile-artillery air defense systems, anti-torpedo systems, etc. Also on board must be present advanced electronic weapons, incl. electronic warfare means. At the same time, the ship does not need advanced shock systems.

The crew of the new UDC will include 320 people. Autonomy - 60 days. Full speed will reach 22 knots, cruising range - 6 thousand nautical miles. As part of naval groups, the new UDCs will be able to operate at a great distance from the bases and solve the tasks of landing troops, participate in humanitarian operations, etc.


Solemn ceremony of laying two UDCs on the "Zaliv", July 20. Photo by AP RF / kremlin.ru

Compared


The main reason for the appearance of pr. 23900 should be considered the refusal of France to transfer two ready-made UDCs. When developing a Russian project, foreign experience and developments were taken into account, but they were implemented differently. As a result, the projects "23900" and Mistral differ significantly from each other - and it makes sense to compare them.

First of all, it should be noted that the Russian ship is larger and heavier than its French counterpart. "Mistral" has a length of less than 200 m and a total displacement of 21,3 thousand tons. The difference in the main dimensions and displacement leads to serious differences in the areas and volumes available for the deployment of troops and equipment.

Depending on the duration of the voyage, the French UDC is capable of taking on board 450 or 900 paratroopers. Cargo decks can accommodate up to 59 units. equipment, incl. up to 13-15 basic tanks... The dock chamber accommodates four CTM landing craft or two LCACs. Hangars and flight deck are capable of accommodating up to 16 heavy helicopters or 35 light helicopters. The Russian-French order provided for the completion of the increase in the height of the hangar deck in accordance with the dimensions of our helicopters. The aviation group of the Russian UDC was supposed to include 30 vehicles of several types.

For self-defense, Mistrals carry two Simbad air defense systems, two 20-mm NARWHAL anti-aircraft guns, as well as a set of machine guns of normal and large caliber. Ships for the Russian Navy were to receive reinforced Russian-made weapons. It was proposed to use two AK630 gun mounts and two Gibka anti-aircraft systems. Fire control systems are Russian-made.

UDC type Mistral is capable of speeds up to 19 knots. An economic speed of 15 knots provides a cruising range of over 10 thousand nautical miles. At the same time, autonomy is limited to 30 days.


The President sets up the mortgage board, July 20. Photo by AP RF / kremlin.ru

It is easy to see that in almost all basic tactical and technical characteristics, Project 23900 bypasses the French Mistral. It follows from this that the Russian military and shipbuilders studied foreign experience, but did not adopt ready-made solutions and designs. The result is a larger, faster and more capacious ship with all the necessary capabilities.

Waiting for new items


Back in the spring, before the contract was signed, the domestic media reported on the completion date of the planned construction. The head UDC pr. 23900 was planned to be handed over to the customer in 2026, the second one in 2027. Thus, launching should be expected after 2023-24, and after completion, the ships will go out for testing.

So far, the Ministry of Defense plans to build only two new UDCs, and the possibility of further construction is not ruled out. After the laying ceremony, V. Putin noted that the decision would be made based on the experience of operating the first ships. In addition, the president spoke about plans for some alteration of the landing ships to solve other problems - but did not specify which ones.

Thus, the current state of affairs is conducive to restrained optimism. The long-awaited construction of the first fully domestic UDC has begun and will be completed in a few years, thanks to which the Navy will receive fundamentally new ships. So far, one cannot exclude certain difficulties at different stages due to the lack of necessary experience, but there are no reasons for negative predictions.

It should be noted that the delivery of two Mistral ships was planned back in 2014-15. But due to the dubious actions of the French authorities, the plans of the Russian Navy were disrupted, and the development of the amphibious forces was slowed down. The first desired UDC will be obtained only 10-12 years after the dates stipulated by the Russian-French agreement.

However, this time has not been and will not be wasted. Over the past few years, Russian scientific and design organizations have studied promising topics and worked out new projects, while the factories were preparing for construction. As a result, the Russian Navy will receive the desired universal amphibious assault ships, and better than foreign ones and without any political risks. Their construction has already begun.
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  1. Mitroha 22 July 2020 18: 27 New
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    In fact, good news and God forbid that the shifts to the right were minimal or completely absent. Good luck to the shipbuilders
    1. Bashkirkhan 22 July 2020 18: 37 New
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      Initially, they tried to break the contract on helicopter carriers. In March 2020, the general director of the Ak Bars shipbuilding corporation Mistakhov spent the night in a temporary detention center on Petrovka in a criminal case on bribing for agreeing in 2014 contracts of the Ministry of Defense for the supply of ships, initiated back in 2017 on the basis of the testimony of the head of the 2nd department of the department audit of the Russian Ministry of Defense Yuri Efimov, retired colonel. Efimov said that in 2014 Mistakhov turned to him and asked him not to underestimate the cost of future contracts of the plant with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, and most importantly - to agree on them. At first, Mistakhov allegedly gave a deposit of 30 million rubles, and a year later - another 35. The reason for the bribe was two government contracts concluded in 2014-2015 for the supply of components for anti-sabotage boats "Grachonok". Mistakhov, already knowing about the criminal case, hinted at possible complications: "... There are other concerns. It is clear that now we are reaching another level. When we were just conceiving a corporation, I was warned: you will face certain pressure, you will have serious opponents."
      The judge ultimately decided to release Mistakhov in the courtroom, without any bail. The refusal of the petition to the investigators, who asked to send Mistakhov to a pre-trial detention center before April 27, 2020, the judge explained by the fact that the prosecution is based only on the testimony of one person. Mistakhov’s words in court “I lead a large team: 17 enterprises, 11 thousand people. Surprisingly! I was called yesterday. I thought it was just for questioning. Tomorrow I have a visit from Deputy Prime Minister Borisov Yuri Ivanovich, I am signing an agreement. I am signing a large of a contract worth more than 100 billion. Now I am preparing two ships on the Gulf. This is an event of Russian scale, there will be celebrations, the signing of the contract. It is scary for me if the design bureau that I have in my composition, and Avod will lose such a contract because their leader was in such a situation. I have a team of thousands. People would say: “It is because of him.” We initially fought for this contract, presented products, told which project is better "The whole of 2019 was spent on the fact that we defended and fought for this project with several bureaus and factories. And then it suddenly comes up that I should be arrested."
      More details at https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/460154
    2. EnGenius 27 July 2020 19: 42 New
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      Shifts are inevitable, 2026 and 2027 are very optimistic. Consider the project has nothing but a technical project. And the Zelenodolsk PKB itself probably took on an exorbitant burden, having no experience in creating such ships and even proportional ships. They just grabbed the money, the main thing is to get the order. I have no doubt that Ak-Bars offered the best price.

      Again, for orders, there is probably no serial Russian equipment. Again, the Chinese and sanctioned Asian and European will we put ?!

      The project is undoubtedly necessary, but other design bureaus and factories should have built it. And this project may turn into long-term construction. 2030 seems to me a more realistic date for admission to the Navy.
  2. Victor Tsenin 22 July 2020 18: 39 New
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    I didn't understand a little, the author indicated the speed of Mistral, but the speed of 23900 was not indicated, however, it was concluded that ours is faster. Can I specify a speed of 23900 if known?
    1. Yuri T. 22 July 2020 19: 32 New
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      Read carefully "Full speed will reach 22 knots, cruising range - 6 thousand nautical miles."
  3. Vlad T 22 July 2020 18: 48 New
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    The main thing for which such UDCs are, what are the applications, - "Syria" will constantly be the agenda, because there is no other application in sight. True, the Pacific region will bring its own surprises in the near future, it is more suitable there .. Fashion for large ships is ending, isn't it big? A little positive emotions, perhaps in the near future there will be speedy helicopters and other hybrid vehicles, then a place for them in the UDC is ready .. In this time of crisis, the construction of significant objects is even economically beneficial for the state, as a motor for production ...
    1. Polente the Wanderer 22 July 2020 19: 41 New
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      UDC America = 45 thousand tons
      1. Vlad T 22 July 2020 19: 54 New
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        The United States has its own tasks and means, there are always dozens of aircraft carriers, because they have to go across the oceans to the points of tasks, and they don't have to run, stuff everything at once ... Syria) ... But a large ship, a large expensive target and the loss of one is significant, three smaller in total comparable tonnage, the loss of one is not even so sensitive ... This is with the increasing effectiveness of the PC weapon ...
  4. top.g1r 22 July 2020 18: 49 New
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    The fact that two UDCs were laid is good, but the logo of the plant on the overalls should be changed, somehow it is not patriotic.
    1. Fmax 22 July 2020 19: 01 New
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      is UAZ "patriot" patriotic? %) The plant survived as best it could, successfully entered the European market under the "Zaliv" brand and took the job away from the Dutch. Why change something now?
    2. carstorm 11 22 July 2020 20: 09 New
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      what does patriotism have to do with it? all large enterprises always work with the opportunity to make their brand recognizable and international. in Russian letters, let's say it's not at all good.
      1. serezhasoldatow 23 July 2020 15: 47 New
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        Recently I saw a brand new truck, the letters KAMAZ were attached to it, and not KAMAZ as before.
    3. snucerist 23 July 2020 01: 11 New
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      Changing the logo is, of course, crucial.
      But there is another problem.
      Does Kerch have any experience in building such ships? As far as I know, no. All vessels of this displacement were made at one time at the Nikolaev shipyard.
      Are there proven technologies, equipment, craftsmen, workers with experience? I once worked at Dalzavod and have some idea of ​​the technical process.
      The situation is complicated by the fact that there will be no outside help, not even Chinese. Crimea is under sanctions, no one will go there.
      1. Alexey RA 23 July 2020 11: 23 New
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        Quote: snucerist
        Does Kerch have any experience in building such ships? As far as I know, no. All vessels of this displacement were made at one time at the Nikolaev shipyard.

        Nikolaev, through the efforts of Butoma, was indeed a monopoly on aircraft carrying ships.

        But in terms of the construction of large-displacement vessels "Zaliv" was among the first - some tankers "Crimea" are worth something:
        Length - 295 m, width - 45 m, depth - 25,4 m, draft - 17 m, displacement - 180 thousand tons, deadweight - 150 500 tons, carrying capacity - 143 250 tons

        Plus beyond Kerch a series of Pobeda-class tankers and a nuclear-powered lighter carrier Sevmorput.

        Another question - what of the former splendor survived after the Ukrainian period of the plant's history?
      2. Boa kaa 23 July 2020 18: 24 New
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        Quote: snucerist
        there will be no outside help, not even the Chinese.

        And what, Sevmash didn’t remake “Vikramaditya” from Gorshkov even for Indians? And yet they will not share their experience with colleagues?
        Quote: snucerist
        Crimea is under sanctions, no one will go there.

        That is why we need to support the Crimeans! And how could it be otherwise, if this is a primordially Russian land. And Russian people live on it, who know how and are ready to work. Build ships that the Navy lacks.
  5. Fmax 22 July 2020 18: 53 New
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    It's all good, what are we going to cover these ships with? Where are the destroyers with advanced air defense and anti-submarine ships that can travel 6000 miles? 2 reconstructed cruisers are clearly not enough for these purposes.
    1. novel66 22 July 2020 20: 15 New
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      and, I'm embarrassed to ask, where are we going to land? What is our strategy?
      1. Fmax 22 July 2020 21: 58 New
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        In Syria, Libya, Japan, Turkey, Venezuela ... Wherever it is needed - there they will land.
        1. Looking for 23 July 2020 17: 45 New
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          And they will allow ??? for a strategic retreat (flight), they are also suitable.
          1. bayard 24 July 2020 12: 02 New
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            And for
            Quote: Seeker
            strategic retreat (flight)

            You will not need UDC, but "strong legs" - as one German general used to say in the movie "17 Moments of Spring". yes
            And to the question:
            Quote: Seeker
            Will they allow it ???

            ... at
            Quote: FMax
            Syria, Libya,

            Quote: FMax
            Venezuela.

            - not even a question.
            And in
            Quote: FMax
            Japan, Turkey

            after a GOOD fire attack, including non-conventional BPs ... where will they go?
            But we are for Peace. yes

            In general, this is a TOOL that a good owner should have in abundance and assortment.
      2. antivirus 22 July 2020 23: 08 New
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        the main thing is the Bahamas and the Caymans - there are the accounts of many "necessary" heroes of market reforms. 6000 miles.
    2. bayard 24 July 2020 11: 51 New
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      Quote: FMax
      It's all good, what are we going to cover these ships with?

      What is the sadness? Only two of them were laid, they will be commissioned by 2027, if you're lucky. And by that time, the entire series of 22350 will be completed, 22350M will be the first to pass, 1155 will be modernized (4 pcs. At least). And it depends on where to go, for another campaign and corvettes 20380, the Black Sea frigates 11356 will be enough.
      Again, "Admiral Nakhimov" will be taken out of modernization by 2022, and by 2027, "Peter the Great" will also be capitalized. There is also "Moscow", "Marshal Ustinov", "Varyag".
      And this is all the wealth for two UDC.
      So for two UDC an escort is definitely enough.
  6. rocket757 22 July 2020 19: 04 New
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    The case is interesting in all respects ... but how and where to use ??? But you never know, can you guess what lies ahead and it's better to be prepared for the unexpected than vice versa.
    But again, only in conjunction with everything else necessary !!!
    1. Sergey39 22 July 2020 19: 44 New
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      It was not for nothing that Putin said that there were plans for some alteration of the landing ships to solve other problems.
      1. rocket757 22 July 2020 20: 00 New
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        The tasks have not changed much, but the conditions, methods of counteraction have just changed noticeably, and require different solutions to complete the tasks.
        1. Suslin 23 July 2020 08: 01 New
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          The old engineers had this rule: The best is the enemy of the good! You need to start with good things, and then, as you gain operating experience, improve.
          1. Genry 23 July 2020 08: 58 New
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            Quote: Suslin
            The old engineers had this rule: The best is the enemy of the good!

            This is not a rule but a curse.
            As soon as you finish the development, the deadlines are already running out and you realize that here a lot can be done differently and easier and better (more elegant). And it's good if you can knock out the rollover and additional funding.
            This is experience and a sharper insight into development.
            1. rocket757 23 July 2020 09: 27 New
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              I read a very interesting justification of a design engineer, according to the methods of modern design.
              He explained how the process of developing new products can be shortened.
              Computer simulation greatly shortens the process and reduces design errors!
              This is not a panacea, not a guarantee that everything will work immediately, but he claims that the savings in money and time are significant.
              Besides, you can design with the calculation of future changes, improvements, upgrades ..... this is also a big plus.
              The matter, of course, is difficult, high-class specialists are needed ...
              Something like this.
            2. Boa kaa 23 July 2020 18: 36 New
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              Quote: Genry
              And it's good if you can knock out the rollover and additional funding.
              This is experience and a sharper insight into development.

              It is a blessing that we have switched to digital and "virtual" when designing!
              And then, I remember how the carpentry shop was disfigured "in full size", cutting out units and compartments, pleasing the "orgonomists". And then they will make it up, but you still can't get into the device ... (You need to lose weight!)
              And about "prolongation" - it's good only in sex yes , but in design it is a rise in price and pumping out greenery for the project ... Therefore, you need to think immediately, preferably in a complex and multivariate way, but looking at the adversary and the surroundings, so as not to shout later: "Oh, don't, don't! ! "
              AHA.
      2. Alex777 23 July 2020 11: 47 New
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        It was not for nothing that Putin said that there were plans for some alteration of the landing ships to solve other problems.

        So about the development of aircraft with UVVP rumors have been circulating for several years.
    2. novel66 22 July 2020 20: 13 New
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      yes fuck it is not needed, less and with anti-submarine functions. it is necessary. slightly larger BOD, and with a large radius. and wherever we were going to land ...
      1. rocket757 22 July 2020 20: 46 New
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        As a colonial transport, there is no use for it, but as a military transport ship, for the delivery of goods, troops, with the ability to unload without berthing facilities .... this may be needed.
        Our coastline is huge, but the conditions are different.
        There is no need to have a large number, but you may need to have a couple of them here and there.
        1. Genry 23 July 2020 09: 16 New
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          Quote: rocket757
          As a colonial transport, it has no use, but as a military transport ship, for the delivery of goods, troops, with the ability to unload without berthing facilities

          For transportation of equipment, you need to use expedition ships, which differ from dry cargo ships only by the presence of hinged ramps, like ferries. In Syria, they suffered with amphibious, and now with dry cargo ships, The caravan should include a reloader vessel, which is equipped with a crane (or a pair), has a large deck and allows you to reload equipment from an expedition ship to flat-bottomed transporters (based on the same reloader), which bring the equipment to the shore and let it unload under its own power.
          It is possible to use the reloader as a mooring vessel by connecting it to the shore with several pontoons.
          1. rocket757 23 July 2020 09: 51 New
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            UDC has the ability to unload itself, in a suitable place, of course.
            The use of floating piers, as practice has shown, is not always possible.
            In terms of payload, transportation cost, etc., any dry cargo ship will show the best results, but ......
            In general, it is not necessary to build a whole fleet of specialized military transport ships, it is perhaps unnecessary for us to have the required number of more versatile ships.
            Something like this. Experts themselves will figure out how much and what they need.
  7. Vladimir Mashkov 22 July 2020 19: 20 New
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    Nice solid article. Today she is perhaps one of the best. We are waiting, sir!
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. Ovsigovets 22 July 2020 19: 27 New
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    Quote: Victor Tsenin
    I didn't understand a little, the author indicated the speed of Mistral, but the speed of 23900 was not indicated, however, it was concluded that ours is faster. Can I specify a speed of 23900 if known?

    read carefully
    The crew of the new UDC will include 320 people. Autonomy - 60 days. Full speed will reach 22 knots, cruising range - 6 thousand nautical miles. (C)
  10. silberwolf88 22 July 2020 20: 12 New
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    I'm glad that a new class of ships appears in Russia ... there are good topics for the UDC data ... for example, the construction of the Nicaraguan Canal (security is very relevant) in an alliance with China ... there are topics for cooperation in Africa (all kinds of economic interests backed by force ... by the way, and the end of piracy in relation to the Russian merchant fleet ...) during the support of Abkhazia in the conflict with the Georgians, this class of ships was not enough ... and much more ...
    1. Boa kaa 23 July 2020 18: 47 New
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      Quote: silberwolf88
      there are good topics for UDC data ... for example, the construction of the Nicaraguan canal

      Look better at your native North! One "northern delivery" is worth what ... Then, to supply the entire economy in the Wild East ... Sakhalin, Kamchatka, the islands of the Kuril ridge ... When calm, even raid unloading can be organized (dreams) ... Then you will have practice, and business value.
      But about Venezuela and Nicaragua - how the map will fall ... You can run into difficulties, as it was with Cuba in its time ...
      Yeah...
      1. silberwolf88 23 July 2020 18: 55 New
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        UDC is definitely not about the northern delivery ...
        about Cuba, the story is different ... Fidel saw Gorbachev's betrayal and the worthlessness of EBN, therefore, he took a step aside ... but not under the amers ...
  11. Andrey Zhukov 22 July 2020 20: 16 New
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    The timing is unrealistic, given that in the Gulf, like a black hole, two universal sea tankers of Project 23131, which were supposed to be delivered to the fleet in 2018, disappeared. But until now, nothing is known about their fate ((((
    1. Mitroha 22 July 2020 21: 26 New
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      The Kerch Shipyard Zaliv has completed the formation of hulls and superstructures for two universal sea tankers of Project 23131.

      All the necessary welded saturation has been installed on the ships, equipment has been loaded, preparations are underway for the delivery of hulls for electrical installation, the shipyard said in a statement.

      November 7 2018
      SOURCE https://sudostroenie.info/novosti/24907.html
      1. Andrey Zhukov 22 July 2020 22: 05 New
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        Yeah, hello from 2020 ...
        Didn't find anything fresher?
      2. donavi49 22 July 2020 22: 13 New
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        Only they are not. Rather, there are several sections. It is now 20 (2 years have passed since the news) no photos and videos, no mention of ships. Neither open nor closed. Nowhere. Here are the most recent photos. Two cable layers are visible, for which 60% of the target equipment needs to be replaced + saturation of the engine room, because the designer from the State Research Center invented the steamer by creatively copying the Dutch project (with all that it implies, but at the time of approval there were no sanctions). MRK without engines (ours, mastered under Nikita Sergeevich, having no analogues 112 cylinder monsters).




        They say that the reason is in the laying of "Spetsudoproekt", or rather in the basic design bureau of the IIB from Odessa - which the SBU rigidly cut off the tap for precisely this (and some other projects) project. Therefore, in fact, there is no way to make the necessary changes to the requirements of the Navy, there is no way to resolve the issues that have arisen, and the documentation itself did not have time to arrive in full. Therefore, the construction was frozen.
        1. Mitroha 23 July 2020 06: 02 New
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          Maybe you are right. I just got interested and posted what I found with a quick glance. We need to dig deeper, interesting.
      3. Alexey RA 23 July 2020 11: 28 New
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        Quote: Mitroha
        The Kerch Shipyard Zaliv has completed the formation of hulls and superstructures for two universal sea tankers of Project 23131.
        All the necessary welded saturation has been installed on the ships, equipment has been loaded, preparations are underway for the delivery of hulls for electrical installation, the shipyard said in a statement.
        November 7 2018

        Uh-huh ... only according to a contract signed by the plant, this pair in 2018 should have already been transferred to the Navy. And they were not even let down.
  12. xomaNN 22 July 2020 20: 18 New
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    For me, as a shipbuilder by education, I am especially pleased with the fact that such a large and new ship for our ship industry was designed in the province, in the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau. Excellent competition with Severny PKB and TsNII Krylov. Keep it up!

    It’s also not bad that after the helicopter carriers of the project 1123 of the 60-70s “Moscow” and “Leningrad” will again appear in a few years later helicopter carriers at sea in the Russian Navy.
  13. Narak-zempo 22 July 2020 20: 32 New
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    16 heavy helicopters? If you mean the Mi-26, that's not bad.
    It would be necessary to supplement the S-500 SAM project and a couple of dozen mines for "Caliber" / "Zircon"
    1. Viktor Sergeev 23 July 2020 08: 52 New
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      This is not an air defense ship, but an amphibious assault ship, why would he clog half of his space with weapons? It must be guarded by corvettes, frigates and destroyers.
      1. Narak-zempo 23 July 2020 08: 58 New
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        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        This is not an air defense ship, but a landing ship

        Universal landing ship. This means that he must solve all the problems. Suppress the enemy's defenses ("Caliber"), land troops and cover the landing area from sea and air attacks.
        Yes, perhaps a good GAK and "Waterfall" will not prevent him either.
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        corvettes, frigates and destroyers

        Must. But when else will the "Leaders" be built. Yes, and not rich with corvettes and frigates.
        1. Pamir 24 July 2020 22: 55 New
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          Dear Narak-zempo, did you at least understand what you wrote ?:
          Yours is a "Universal amphibious assault ship. It means that it must solve all the tasks. Suppress the enemy's defenses (" Caliber "), land troops and cover the landing area from sea and air attacks.
          Yes, perhaps a good GAK and "Waterfall" will not hurt him either. "
          Everybody in the Russian Federation has a question: where are the marines, and where is "Waterfall"?
          Where have you seen such functions of a vehicle 15 in one?
          Then why not include in the duties of the UDC the functions of a tug, a minesweeper, a destroyer, a destroyer, an anti-submarine ship, a missile cruiser, a super-aircraft carrier with TU 22-160 strategists on board? ...........
          It is unimaginable. If you could, you would envy W. Churchill, his idea, "Unthinkable."
          Can you tell me the size of these islands with command cabinets for all this?
          What size, displacement should these monsters be?
          It is difficult to call it a ship; this is already the scale of the floating island of Japan, or even Great Britain.
          Where have you read this?
          UDC of 26000 tons does not mean everything, and from everything.
          UDC is the number and method of delivery of a composition of marines, with the possibility of support by its own airborne helicopters, boats, fire onboard artillery systems with support against the coast. And a little air defense.
          Nothing more!!!
          What are you starting from, from the word the universalism of transport-landing vehicles?
          1. Narak-zempo 24 July 2020 23: 37 New
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            Quote: Pamir
            Dear Narak-zempo, did you at least understand what you wrote ?:
            Yours is a "Universal amphibious assault ship. It means that it must solve all the tasks. Suppress the enemy's defenses (" Caliber "), land troops and cover the landing area from sea and air attacks.
            Yes, perhaps a good GAK and "Waterfall" will not hurt him either. "
            Everybody in the Russian Federation has a question: where are the marines, and where is "Waterfall"?
            Where have you seen such functions of a vehicle 15 in one?
            Then why not include in the duties of the UDC the functions of a tug, a minesweeper, a destroyer, a destroyer, an anti-submarine ship, a missile cruiser, a super-aircraft carrier with TU 22-160 strategists on board? ...........
            It is unimaginable. If you could, you would envy W. Churchill, his idea, "Unthinkable."
            Can you tell me the size of these islands with command cabinets for all this?
            What size, displacement should these monsters be?
            It is difficult to call it a ship; this is already the scale of the floating island of Japan, or even Great Britain.
            Where have you read this?
            UDC of 26000 tons does not mean everything, and from everything.
            UDC is the number and method of delivery of a composition of marines, with the possibility of support by its own airborne helicopters, boats, fire onboard artillery systems with support against the coast. And a little air defense.
            Nothing more!!!
            What are you starting from, from the word the universalism of transport-landing vehicles?

            What is the strength of our weapons, if it is both in quantity and, to be honest, sometimes inferior in quality to the models of a potential enemy?
            That's right, in that it has no analogues.
            And the more unparalleled it is, the better.
            One such ship will devalue the entire US fleet at once. laughing
        2. Viktor Sergeev 25 July 2020 16: 05 New
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          There are no universal ships, even the cruiser is not one of those. People like you in the 30s demanded versatile guns. Each ship fulfills its role. Installation of additional equipment on this ship reduces the size of the internal free space, dramatically increases the cost, reduces the number of transported equipment and paratroopers, while the probability of using strike weapons is close to 0. You will also suggest basing the aircraft as on an aircraft carrier.
          By the way, the Caliber has a range of 2000 km. How will you suppress the defense with them? It's like a cannon hitting sparrows. The defense will be suppressed by attack ships and aircraft.
          1. Narak-zempo 25 July 2020 17: 20 New
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            Do you understand the jokes?
            1. Viktor Sergeev 25 July 2020 18: 01 New
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              Where's the joke? I really like jokes, but I did not see in your comment about the need to install a heap of weapons on the large landing craft.
              1. Narak-zempo 25 July 2020 18: 04 New
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                Well, as it were, it is clear that demanding to load the UDC S-500 and "Zircons" is a joke reference to the recent news on VO about equipping a promising aircraft carrier with these air defense systems, and secondly - to the dubious concept of "Kuznetsov", for which - then equipped with anti-ship missiles.
                And there is nothing to say about the ship's ability to receive the Mi-26.
    2. Zufei 23 July 2020 12: 08 New
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      Where will you get the engine on the MI-26? Dill too?
      1. Viktor Sergeev 25 July 2020 18: 15 New
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        Why in Ukraine? Soon the production of our own, more powerful PD12V will begin, until that time we will somehow turn around, we will not get used to it.
        1. Zufei 25 July 2020 18: 30 New
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          Fresh tradition ...
          1. Viktor Sergeev 25 July 2020 20: 38 New
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            What do you say when they start producing?
            1. Zufei 26 July 2020 06: 34 New
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              MI-26 with D-136 is a dead version (too complicated and expensive to equip a ship). Yes, and they will not live to see the descent of the bdk. We have Mi-8, we have to produce the engine. It remains for the boat to wait.
              1. Viktor Sergeev 26 July 2020 15: 38 New
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                The Mi26 will never be based on ships, this is not his, like the Mi8.
    3. Grits 24 July 2020 14: 34 New
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      Quote: Narak-zempo
      16 heavy helicopters? If we mean the Mi-26, then not

      Our Mi-8, which we consider to be a medium helicopter, is considered quite heavy for bourgeois. And the Mi-26 is generally heavy for them.
  14. Radikal 22 July 2020 21: 13 New
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    Quote: Bashkirkhan
    Initially, they tried to break the contract on helicopter carriers. In March 2020, the general director of the Ak Bars shipbuilding corporation Mistakhov spent the night in a temporary detention center on Petrovka in a criminal case on bribing for agreeing in 2014 contracts of the Ministry of Defense for the supply of ships, initiated back in 2017 on the basis of the testimony of the head of the 2nd department of the department audit of the Russian Ministry of Defense Yuri Efimov, retired colonel. Efimov said that in 2014 Mistakhov turned to him and asked him not to underestimate the cost of future contracts of the plant with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, and most importantly - to agree on them. At first, Mistakhov allegedly gave a deposit of 30 million rubles, and a year later - another 35. The reason for the bribe was two government contracts concluded in 2014-2015 for the supply of components for anti-sabotage boats "Grachonok". Mistakhov, already knowing about the criminal case, hinted at possible complications: "... There are other concerns. It is clear that now we are reaching another level. When we were just conceiving a corporation, I was warned: you will face certain pressure, you will have serious opponents."
    The judge ultimately decided to release Mistakhov in the courtroom, without any bail. The refusal of the petition to the investigators, who asked to send Mistakhov to a pre-trial detention center before April 27, 2020, the judge explained by the fact that the prosecution is based only on the testimony of one person. Mistakhov’s words in court “I lead a large team: 17 enterprises, 11 thousand people. Surprisingly! I was called yesterday. I thought it was just for questioning. Tomorrow I have a visit from Deputy Prime Minister Borisov Yuri Ivanovich, I am signing an agreement. I am signing a large of a contract worth more than 100 billion. Now I am preparing two ships on the Gulf. This is an event of Russian scale, there will be celebrations, the signing of the contract. It is scary for me if the design bureau that I have in my composition, and Avod will lose such a contract because their leader was in such a situation. I have a team of thousands. People would say: “It is because of him.” We initially fought for this contract, presented products, told which project is better "The whole of 2019 was spent on the fact that we defended and fought for this project with several bureaus and factories. And then it suddenly comes up that I should be arrested."
    More details at https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/460154

    So what? How should we react to this information? In the USSR, this situation could not exist at all, and accordingly there was a Fleet, and the shipbuilding program was carried out without any shifts to the right, and if someone had such thoughts, then he was either intelligibly explained the erroneousness of his position, or "organizational conclusions" followed. Therefore, the country had a Navy! sad
    1. Alexey RA 23 July 2020 11: 34 New
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      Quote: Radikal
      In the USSR, this situation could not exist at all, respectively, there was a Fleet, and the shipbuilding program was carried out without any shifts to the right.

      In the USSR, there were no such situations ... although in the 30s many shipbuilding design bureaus did suffer.
      But shifts to the right on new ships were the norm. Leader "Leningrad" was completed after delivery to the Navy - right up to 1939. The deadlines for LK and LKR were shifted by as much as five years (however, they were never completed).
      And then the shipbuilding industry, for the sake of meeting deadlines, mastered a life hack - "delivery of non-ready ships to the fleet." For example, a BOD without an air defense system at all or with a half of the state. Or SSBNs without SLBMs. smile
      1. Boa kaa 23 July 2020 18: 59 New
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        Quote: Alexey RA
        Or SSBNs without SLBMs.

        If possible, be more specific. R-30 does not count! stop
  15. Mokaev Hakim 22 July 2020 21: 28 New
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    Friends, enlighten me.
    What will be the main power plant for these ships? Once, here on the site, I read about the big problems with naval power plants for our fleet. What will move a ship with a displacement of more than 20 thousand tons (as indicated in the article)?
    1. Belomorkanal 22 July 2020 22: 52 New
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      The main driving force, as always, will be the leading role of the party!
    2. Narak-zempo 23 July 2020 12: 52 New
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      Quote: Mokaev Hakim
      Friends, enlighten me.
      What will be the main power plant for these ships? Once, here on the site, I read about the big problems with naval power plants for our fleet. What will move a ship with a displacement of more than 20 thousand tons (as indicated in the article)?

      What do you think boilers and TZA have forgotten how to do?
      1. Mokaev Hakim 23 July 2020 14: 18 New
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        This is understandable, but I wanted to be specific. Boilers or turbines, or diesel and in what combination, who is the manufacturer, what is the expected reliability of this installation
        1. timokhin-aa 23 July 2020 18: 26 New
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          There is no clarity with the GEM yet, really no. There are several options.
          Or rather, even so - to see if option 1 works, if not, then ask the Chinese for help.
          The project is very far from completion, the laying was ceremonial.

          So the final answer to your question does not yet exist in principle.
          1. Mokaev Hakim 24 July 2020 10: 13 New
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            Thank you very much
  16. Izotovp 22 July 2020 21: 29 New
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    It is necessary to initially lay the placement of a large aircraft wing of drones. AWACS, patrol and search, rescue and evacuation, shock, transport, refuelers ... for every taste and color. Perhaps, just for this case, and universal.with a quick-change load. A type of one-size container for various purposes for unified grippers.
  17. looker-on 22 July 2020 21: 40 New
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    Quote: Mokaev Hakim
    Friends, enlighten me.
    What will be the main power plant for these ships? Once, here on the site, I read about the big problems with naval power plants for our fleet. What will move a ship with a displacement of more than 20 thousand tons (as indicated in the article)?

    Well, why are you doing that?) This is an inconvenient question. The boards were laid - we must rejoice with all our might
  18. Petrol cutter 22 July 2020 21: 56 New
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    Wonderful. I'm glad for Kerch.
    There is no understanding of what these ships will do. Well, except for Syria. Which will probably end by then?
    What power plants are planned to be installed?
    After all, once the ship was laid, then there is a set of drawings for the foundations in the car, etc. And the foundations are cooked for specific mechanisms. And not just that bulo ...
    1. timokhin-aa 22 July 2020 22: 32 New
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      They will simply weld something similar to the embedded section and wait for the end of the design.
      As with 20386 it was, one to one.
      everything is not clear with the power plant, yet.
      1. Cyril G ... 22 July 2020 22: 45 New
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        Quote: timokhin-aa
        As with 20386 it was, one to one.


        Oh how, and what will happen in three years in your opinion?
        1. timokhin-aa 22 July 2020 22: 51 New
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          The year will be 2023. I don't know what to answer this question.
          1. Cyril G ... 23 July 2020 12: 01 New
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            Well, yes, after 3 years, they forgot about Daring, and laid down Mercury. The funny thing is, according to the mortgage, Mercury was laid in 19. That is, either we have two overcorvettes or under-frigate construction, or the Daring was somehow written off as an expense and sawed off the loot, well, in short, society is in admiration but still worries ... laughing
    2. Ryazan87 22 July 2020 23: 12 New
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      What power plants are planned to be installed?

      Well, here only:
  19. Hey
    Hey 22 July 2020 22: 46 New
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    I am for new ships. And the more the better.
    But ... there is no grace in these ships. Yes, I understand all the secrecy, manufacturability, and so on. But there is no sea chic in it. For the soul.
  20. Lookass 22 July 2020 23: 49 New
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    https://www.meta-defense.fr/en/2020/07/21/China-is-starting-the-construction-of-a-new-assault-aircraft-door/ and what a group of drones? Like Mig Skat..
  21. Ros 56 23 July 2020 06: 36 New
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    The ship is certainly necessary, but, judging by the picture, its sailing capacity is greater than that of ships of the 18-19th century, it will also be blown off course, and the wave, God forbid, will dock on board in a storm, it will not seem a little. Or I'm wrong?
    1. Cyril G ... 23 July 2020 12: 03 New
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      The picture is just extremely poor to begin with. The artist would (from the word Khudo), he ought to tear off the clumsy ... laughing
  22. Radikal 23 July 2020 16: 59 New
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    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: Radikal
    In the USSR, this situation could not exist at all, respectively, there was a Fleet, and the shipbuilding program was carried out without any shifts to the right.

    In the USSR, there were no such situations ... although in the 30s many shipbuilding design bureaus did suffer.
    But shifts to the right on new ships were the norm. The leader "Leningrad" was completed after the delivery to the fleet - right up to 1939 ...
    So they were responsible for it in a completely different way than now ... lol
  23. Polar Bear 23 July 2020 19: 28 New
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    Putin is what a fine fellow - he is laying down the landing ships. And Serdyukov so and so, ordered mistrals to the French, which the country did not receive. But here's the question - could Serdyukov, without Putin's approval, be on the post of the Ministry of Defense, and even more so order landing ships in France himself? After all, this is a military, economic, and political question. The answer is I could not. And Medvedev did not appoint him to the post of defense minister, and Medvedev did not give him the go-ahead for this order, because Medvedev did not really drive anything serious.
  24. Charik 24 July 2020 00: 02 New
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    A golden screwdriver?