Military Review

Samurai armor from ... Toropets!

58

The building of the Toropetsk Museum of Local Lore is located in the Church of the Epiphany


What kind of noise in the yard?
This scarecrow rumbled
falling off the bed!
Bonto


Armor and weapon samurai of japan. Finally, in our country, in the field of museum business, significant changes began to occur. You apply, but they don’t kick you off, because “it’s difficult to open a window”, and they don’t break crazy prices, but they really help. However, it could not do without scientific and technological progress. It used to be difficult to photograph the objects of the exposition and people often just didn’t want to mess with this, whereas today almost everyone can take photos on their mobile phone. And the Internet will help us all: last time in the comments someone wrote about samurai armor in the Toropets Museum. I looked into the Network: yes, such armor is there, and there is their photo, albeit of poor quality.


Nearby it can be seen that the church / museum building needs a good repair, but from a distance ... From a distance it is very beautiful

It remains only to write to the administration of the museum, which I did. And soon he received a response from the head of the Toropetsk branch of GBUK TGOM Pokrashenko E.N. with beautifully taken photographs and even the attached text of an article devoted to the armor available in their exposition. Well, excellent, always and everywhere would be so, because that's how museums should work. You will not run into everywhere, for example, I will never go to the same Toropets, however, we all learn about the armor that is exhibited there, thanks to this, readers of VO.


And on top too! Real Russian nature in all its natural and man-made charm!

Well, we start with stories, from how these armors appeared in the ancient Russian city of Toropets. It turns out that they entered the museum in 1973 from the descendants of the Minister of War of the Russian Empire and the Commander-in-Chief of the Manchurian Army in 1904-1905. Adjutant General N.A. Kuropatkin. In 1903, he paid an official visit to Japan, where they most likely gave them to him. That is how they got into his Tver estate Sheshurino, and from it, already today, into the museum. There is no more detailed information about their appearance in the museum.

Samurai armor from ... Toropets!

Samurai armor in the Toropetsk Museum of Local Lore. Front view

Of the armor, the cuirass, helmet, face mask are quite well preserved, the kusazuri legguards, bracers, leggings and shoulder pads are missing. Without a doubt, this is the so-called "modern armor" - Tosey Gusoku, made in the Edo era, that is, until the middle of the XIX century. The cuirass is assembled from long horizontal plates, so the full name of such armor in Japanese will be quite intricate: bё-toji-yokohagi okegawa-do. Rivet heads are clearly visible on the cuirass, so it’s also a type of kakari-do.


The same armor. Back view

Both sections of the cuirass, front and back, are intact and also have their own name: the front is yoroy-no-saki, and the back is yoroy-no-atom. Such plates were usually made of steel 2 mm thick and were covered with the famous Japanese varnish in several layers (up to eight!). Together with the gessan (the name of the “skirt” of kusazuri in the Tosey gusoku armor), the weight of such a cuirass could be 7,7–9,5 kg.


Cuirass. Front view. Pay attention to the upper forged plate, they are domari (formerly called muna-ita), the edges of which are curved outward, not only external, but even the edges of the holes. All this served the purpose of increasing the protective functions of the armor: having hit such a plate, the tip of the spear, if it slipped from it, then went to the side


Breastplate close-up. Very clearly visible rivet heads - kakari

On the back of the Tosei Gusoku cuirass, a detail such as a gattari was usually installed - a special bracket for attaching a koshi-sashi (for officers) and a sashimono (for ordinary soldiers), an identification mark that could have the form of a flag on a long bamboo pole and ... not look like on what, that would be clear to Europeans. For example, it could be a carefully made ... turnip (a hint of perseverance), a prayer plate suspended on a pole, a fan of feathers or three multi-colored fur balls, although, speaking of the flag, it usually depicted simply could (coat of arms) of its overlord.


Cuirass. Back view. On the upper plate of the boko-no-ita (formerly called oshitsuke-no-ita), to which the shoulder straps are attached by the wagons, a sharp mark is clearly visible from the impact. Small dents are also visible on the plates of the cuirass itself. A lacquered “pencil case” was inserted into the square hole of the gattari with a round hole for the flagpole - uke-zutsu. The lower mounting part, the mother-uke, is missing. Only a small hole remains ...

Traces of damage can be seen on the cuirass: on the upper front plate, in its left part, there is an obvious trace from the blow, which, however, did not cause much harm to the armor. And on the rear section of the cuirass and also at the top there are dents that could occur when falling from a horse to stones or from spear strikes.

"Modern armor" usually had a "gessan" skirt, consisting of 7-8 trapezoidal sections of kusazuri, each of which had five stripes of plates. All of them were attached to the cuirass with the help of tight lacing kebiki-oshoshi. In this armor, the gassan consists of seven sections (three sections in the front and four in the back) with five rows of plates in each.


Kusazuri. Front view. Fixing traces on the right: tried to replace the cords


Close-up lacing color con

All cords are dark blue (in Japanese - con), for which indigo paint was used. The specified color was most popular in later periods, since this paint was resistant to fading. But such colors as red (madder color) and violet (soybean color), although they looked spectacular, were not very popular due to the harmful effect of these colors on the cord fabric. Both colors quickly faded, and the cords soaked with them were torn, so they often had to be replaced, and this was a very expensive pleasure.


Kusazuri back view

Pay attention to the length of the cords between the cuirass and the gessan plates. They were long so as not to reduce the mobility of the warrior. However, under the cords was an unprotected space where one could strike. Therefore, some samurai began to sew pieces of cloth covered with chain mail to the lower edge of the cuirass to close it.


Fastening the bottom plates of the cuirass (nakagawa) scruff of the neck on cords


Nakagawa Leather Plates and Kebiki-Odoshi Lacing

Interestingly, the gassan plates, which look “completely” metallic, are actually made of leather. This was done to lighten the weight of the armor. But the skin is not just dressed. She is also varnished, so what material is in front of you, you can’t tell right away. In this case, the Gessan plates still have a comb-like upper part, as if they were all composed of small plates. Such was the power of tradition, there's nothing to be done! By the way, the plates themselves are somewhat curved. To do this, an iron rod of shikigan was laced to them before varnishing.


Kote chainmail sleeve (type ode-gote)


Kote chainmail sleeve close-up. The ikada records and the Japanese chainmail weaving, the co-hussari, in which one large ring were connected to the others by the same using four thinner rings, are clearly visible. Such weaving made sense, since it made it possible to easily weave additional details into the chain mail


Hiji Gane Elbow Plate and Four Radial Groove Matsuba-Va Plates

Both the cuirass and the gassan plates are dark brown in natural Japanese lacquer. Moreover, not only plates, but even chain mail were lacquered in this armor, which, however, is not surprising, given the climate in which such armor was used.

Shoulders on the armor were not preserved, but we can say that they were small and curved to better cover the shoulder. Usually they consisted of 5-6 all-metal curved plates. By the end of the XVI century. they often consisted of only 2-3 plates covering only the shoulder itself. Between themselves, the plates were connected by cords, both types of weaving and frequent weaving of kebiki-odoshi and rare, with cross knots, sugake-odoshi were used. The first type of lacing was to be used on the sode of this armor, since it was also used on its other parts.


Helmet goyozan-suji-kubuto. Left view


Helmet. Right view

The helmet has remained in fairly good condition, although it does not have a shikoro collar and a milled socket around the top of the tehen hole. Let's look at him in profile. Obviously, by type, it refers to helmets of gosozan-suji-kubuto, since its back is higher than the front. Well, “suji” means that it is ribbed, but rivets on its surface are not visible. The helmet top was made of 32 plates, which indicates that he could only belong to an officer, since for ordinary soldiers the number of plates began from 6 and ended with 12 and 16 maximum, but the officers could have 32, and 64, and 72, and even reach 120! What kind of jewelry could be placed on this helmet is, alas, impossible to say. The Japanese who created it were people with limitless imagination.


Helmet Rear View


Suji Kabuto with 62 plate top. It dates back to 1538. Tokyo National Museum

A mask for a helmet is also available and belongs to the type of half mask - hoate. That is, she does not cover her whole face, but leaves her nose, eyes and forehead open. The dark color of the mask and light naked skin made the face of a man in a hambo look like ... a monkey's face. The Japanese noticed this and gave this mask a second name - saru-bo, or "monkey face". All masks called man-gu had a neck cover of yodare-kake, but it was not in this armor. Apparently lost.


But in this photo you can also clearly see the gangs - the cuirass fastenings on the shoulders, which on the “modern armor” of the Tosei Gusoku began to make metal and fastened on hinges

The hoate mask itself is very interesting. Inside, it is covered with red varnish, but in her chin a special hole was made asa-nagashi-no-ana, through which ... sweat flowed out! There were also special hooks for cords on it. The mask was attached to the face again with cords that came from the helmet and which, if properly tied, connected the helmet to the mask literally tightly. There were many ways and instructions on how best to tie the cords on various masks, and it was often possible to determine by the way these cords are tied, to which clan this or that warrior belongs.


We turn to Mitsuo Kure and look at this illustration, taken from his book “Samurai. Illustrated History

Interestingly, this armor nevertheless attracted the attention of a ... 4th-year student of the history department of the Tver State University A.M. Snegirev, who wrote an interesting work on it, “Tosei Gusoku Armor,” for the collection of the 2004 scientific and practical conference dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905.


The cover of the collection of the scientific and practical conference of 2004, dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905.

As already noted, the article submitted by A.M. Snegirev for this collection, was prepared very well. A solid list of sources consisting of works by famous authors is used. Unfortunately, the drawing placed in it as an illustration leaves much to be desired. That is, it does not depict the armor that is present in the museum! But this is the misfortune of many of our authors who have to use not what is followed, but what is at hand.


Illustration from the article

The article discusses this armor in detail, and it is interesting that the author mentions a throat cover, which lacked about 25 percent. But there is no cover at all in the photographs, so over the past 16 years it seems to have simply been lost. Well, what could this armor look like if it had been looked after and restored in time? We will talk about this, as well as about many other things related to samurai armor and weapons, next time.

Literature

1. Kure M. Samurai. Illustrated story. M .: AST / Astrel, 2007.
2. Bryant E. Samurai. M .: AST / Astrel, 2005.


PS The administration of VO and the author express their deep gratitude to Elena Pokrashenko, head of the Toropetsk branch of GBUK TGOM, for the photographs and materials provided.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Armor of the Land of the Rising Sun: The Beginning of Change
Armor for the "poor samurai"
Plates and Cords: Armor of the Land of the Rising Sun
Armor History Land of the Rising Sun
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 July 2020 06: 17
    17
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you!
    I join in gratitude to Toropetsk, keep it up !!!
    Regards, Vlad!
  2. Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 10 July 2020 06: 47
    17
    Suddenly, and from that even more interesting ... Thanks for the work !!!
  3. Free wind
    Free wind 10 July 2020 06: 55
    +8
    Indigo, a very valuable paint, was brought from India. Maybe the truth is that in Japan indigo was grown, although this plant is tropical. Although in Spain it was also grown.
  4. Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 July 2020 07: 29
    10
    Already mentioned more than once. And I want to once again - how interesting are local history museums of regional centers.

    Bow to the keepers. And to those who are interested.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 July 2020 10: 14
      +7
      Salute Sergey!
      I want to share sadness ...
      The Nizhneserginsky Museum of Local Lore owned by the metallurgical plant of the same name (NSMMZ) was taken to the city of Revda in the 90s and nothing is known about the fate of the latter. The building where the last one (the former house of the factory clerk) was located in the late 80s, one of the most beautiful in the city, is now being destroyed and is in disrepair.
      Something like this.
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 July 2020 15: 34
        +3
        Here it is often held by some guardians.
        And if people leave, and even the place changes.

        And Toropets - after all, he was once a princedom. and how many small towns are now with a declining population in the Tver region. and not only in it.
  5. Hantengri
    Hantengri 10 July 2020 07: 53
    +7
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Pleasantly surprised.
    The helmet top was made of 32 plates, which indicates that he could only belong to an officer, since the number of plates in ordinary soldiers began with 6 and ended with 12 and 16 maximum, but the officers could have 32, and 64, and 72, and even reach 120!

    I can’t understand this Japanese passion for spangels from a huge number of plates. A riveted helmet, even a four-piece helmet, is by definition inferior in strength to a solid forged one. And here it’s 120 ... It’s, just, the dream of a shestopera! Although, perhaps, sophisticated Japanese samurai, unlike the rude Europeans, did not have a bad habit of hammering their neighbors with clubs and halberds.
    1. kalibr
      10 July 2020 09: 46
      +7
      Quote: HanTengri
      they didn’t have a bad habit of hammering their neighbors with clubs and halberds.

      Had! But more on that later ...
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 09: 48
      +6
      This is, simply, the dream of a sixth gear! Although, perhaps, sophisticated Japanese samurai, unlike the rude Europeans, did not have a bad habit of hammering their neighbors with clubs and halberds.

      Igor, the Japanese had maces, but, like axes, were not widespread. what here is tetsubo:

      The mace of tetsubo - also made of metal and with blunt spikes was very short, no longer than a combat fan!
      Although a mace similar to European and Middle Eastern designs in Japan was known, it was not very popular and the symbol of a military leader, as in Europe, was never considered! It should be noted that every samurai, in addition to everything else, had to be able to fight with a long wooden staff - bo, possession of which was equal to the ability to hold a spear and a halberd!

      Adapted from the article by Vyacheslav our Olegovich 2015. drinks
      To the author - bow. yes I will join Sergey Korsar - sometimes there are rare exhibits in small local history museums! good
      As an example, I will cite a "tsweichender" from the museum of Kingisepp (formerly a "blokpost with posad" - Yam).

      The tablet below it says "two-handed knightly sword, Livonia, XIV-XVI centuries. Metal, forging". My photo, but, alas, not the most successful ... recourse
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 10 July 2020 11: 12
        +5
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        The mace of tetsubo - also made of metal and with blunt spikes was very short, no longer than a combat fan!

        Well, this piece of fittings and a bicycle helmet will stand it. )))
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 11: 14
          +5
          this piece of reinforcement

          namely, that in appearance - the armature is! laughing drinks
        2. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 11: 30
          +6
          this piece of reinforcement

          Anecdote: Ilya Muromets challenged D'Artagnan to a duel. Himself with a sword, Ilya - with a sword-kladenets. We went into the forest to fight.
          After some time, a wild cry from there, Ilya returns alone, the wizard wipes with grass, and condemns: "Uuu, hooliganism ... I almost gouged my eyes out with a wire ...." angry
    3. Engineer
      Engineer 10 July 2020 15: 04
      +6
      A one-piece helmet is much more difficult to manufacture, including because any mistake leads to damage to the entire product. And then he ruined the section, well, okay.
      The second point is that many underestimate the reasonableness of the Kabuto segments. I already laid out a video blow in the front with a blade on the helmet, which led to the fact that the plates on the back of the head parted a little. The load was so skillfully redistributed
    4. Icelord
      Icelord 14 July 2020 08: 17
      0
      Well, what you really are. This is not combat armor, but cabinet armor. Armor from the Edo era, this is like Victorian armor in England. Outwardly, they look like armor and alright
  6. Eldorado
    Eldorado 10 July 2020 09: 09
    +5
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks! Special thanks to Toropetsk!
    1. kalibr
      10 July 2020 12: 26
      +6
      Yes, their director showed rare responsiveness and responsiveness!
  7. Undecim
    Undecim 10 July 2020 09: 49
    +6
    The article discusses this armor in detail, and it is interesting that the author mentions a throat cover, which lacked about 25 percent. But there is no cover at all in the photographs, so over the past 16 years, apparently, it’s just lost.

    This is 2017 year. Elena Pokrashenko talks about the armor. Throat cover - yedarekake - is present.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 10 July 2020 10: 09
      +8

      The same armor close-up.
      Well, we start with the story, with how these armors appeared in the ancient Russian city of Toropets. It turns out that they entered the museum in 1973 from the descendants of the Minister of War of the Russian Empire and the Commander-in-Chief of the Manchurian Army in 1904-1905. Adjutant General N.A. Kuropatkin. In 1903, he paid an official visit to Japan, where they most likely gave them to him. That is how they got into his Tver estate Sheshurino, and from it, already today, into the museum. There is no more detailed information about their appearance in the museum.

      Here's an interesting point. I specially looked through Kuropatkin's Japanese Diaries, where he described in great detail his stay in Japan, but he did not write anything about the handing over of the armor to him.
      Perhaps he did not consider it necessary, although, as a collector, he should have noted.
      In Sheshurino, near Kuropatkin, a large collection of weapons was collected, looted in 1917, as well as a huge library of about 10 volumes.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 10: 35
        +5
        Here's an interesting point. I specially looked through Kuropatkin's Japanese Diaries, where he described in great detail his stay in Japan, but he did not write anything about the handing over of the armor to him.

        Viktor Nikolaevich, I have a question for you, but not about the samurai, but about the domestic form of the days of the REV. drinks
        Here is a photo from the Artillery Museum.

        Left - a private of the 145th rifle Novocherkassk regiment, 1904-1905. He's still wearing a white tunic. In the center is a senior non-commissioned officer of the 7th East Siberian regiment, and on the right is a colonel of the same regiment in a frock coat (he has a 2nd degree "Anna" around his neck with swords - an experienced warrior!). Both are from 1904-1905, judging by the signature on the stand. The figures themselves were made in 2016, sculptor V.A. Belenets.
        Here is a 1907 painting by Roubaud, "Attack of the Novocherkassk Regiment on the Shakhe River", hangs in the same place. The fighters are already in protective gear.

        Question: did our army receive a protective uniform during the war? Or presented exhibits - speculation? As far as I remember, they started back in white tunics, to the delight of the Japanese ... hi
        1. kalibr
          10 July 2020 10: 46
          +7
          We started in white. Then they introduced a protective one. We bought French paint. Painted ... But with the French bad. It is only in novels that all our officers speak French fluently and drink champagne. And it came out ... in spots, gray-brown-crimson. Kuropatkin came to see what happened. And he said, "a crowd of skiers." But then they learned ...
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 10: 49
            +7
            Bought French paint. Painted ...

            That is, painted yourself? belay in camping conditions? Yes .. If you want to live - you’ll also create something else. request But, in principle, the decision is right.
            And it turned out ... spots, gray-brown-crimson.

            Reminds the "victim of the Titanic" Kisa Vorobyaninov. How he dyed his mustache ... what
            1. kalibr
              10 July 2020 10: 56
              +5
              There was an order for the troops: to wash their tunics less often, "so that they are more natural in color." And some took it completely radically and ordered to wet them in clay puddles and dry them without squeezing! I read about all this in the 1906 edition dedicated to this war. There were many interesting things in the newspapers of that time, especially in articles about the trials of Rozhdestvensky and Nebogatov ...
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 11: 07
                +4
                And some took him quite radically and ordered them to be wet in clay puddles and dried without squeezing! I read about all this in the 1906 edition devoted to this war.

                Stepanov also writes about such a quick and radical method in Port Arthur, but the novel is fiction, so it cannot be taken on faith. Apparently, before writing, he also leafed through the same newspapers! yes
                There were a lot of interesting things in the newspapers of that time, especially in articles about the trials of Rozhdestvensky and Nebogatov ...

                It would be very interesting to read if you make similar "squeezes" of them. hi
                1. kalibr
                  10 July 2020 12: 23
                  +5
                  It is possible, but it is necessary that the archive opens!
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 12: 43
                    +4
                    It is possible, but it is necessary that the archive opens!

                    How does the bulk of us know about Tsushima? Novikov-Priboy (honestly, I have not read ...) and Pikul - "Three ages of Okini-san". That is, from works of art. And that's okay - few people read scientific articles. request
                    If you throw us historical information, real - we will be grateful. hi
                    1. kalibr
                      10 July 2020 13: 21
                      +4
                      As always, this involves ... Not everywhere your requests are treated like in Toropets. Sometimes it’s so troublesome that there is not the slightest pleasure ... but there’s a lot of work.
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 13: 23
                        +4
                        Sometimes it is so troublesome that there is not the slightest pleasure ...

                        Yeah. I know, I passed. Sometimes the internal bureaucracy sticks so many sticks that at least do not go! request
            2. Astra wild
              Astra wild 10 July 2020 15: 11
              +3
              "Kitty, all contraband is done on Malaya Arnautskaya" from "The Golden Calf"
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 15: 20
                +5
                "Kitty, all contraband is done on Malaya Arnautskaya" from "The Golden Calf"

                Vera, not quite - from "The Twelve Chairs" wink love
                Hmm .. here last weekend I read Wikipedia. It turns out that in 1948 the novel was banned for publication! what It is also interesting that in many other countries, including Nazi Germany, he was filmed long before us! hi
                Here is a poster of the German film "13 Chairs", filmed in 1938, with the plot, with changes transferred to Germany.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 10 July 2020 13: 01
            +6
            came out ... stained, gray-brown-raspberry
            So camouflage was invented! laughing
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 10 July 2020 14: 06
              +5
              If taken on land, then this is at least the Napoleonic wars. If at sea,
              Mediterranean pirates painted their ships blue-gray in the XNUMXrd century.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 15: 28
                +6
                If taken on land, then this is at least the Napoleonic wars.

                Explain Victor Nikolaevich! what It seemed to me that with red epaulettes, shakos and white pants especially (I just offhand) you will not merge strongly with nature visually ... wink
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 10 July 2020 16: 21
                  +3

                  The riflemen of the British Experimental Rifle Corps, armed with Baker rifles, had this form already in 1800. In 1803, they formed The 95th Regiment of Foot (Rifles).
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 16: 23
                    +5
                    drinks
                    This form had already in 1800, the arrows of the English "Experimental Rifle Corps, armed with Baker rifles.

                    Wow! Did not know! Thank!
                    1. vladcub
                      vladcub 10 July 2020 20: 55
                      +3
                      Quote: Pan Kohanku
                      drinks
                      This form had already in 1800, the arrows of the English "Experimental Rifle Corps, armed with Baker rifles.

                      Wow! Did not know! Thank!

                      Also the first time I hear
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 10 July 2020 21: 07
                +2
                On the subject of the second, I read somewhere.
        2. kalibr
          10 July 2020 10: 57
          +5
          The Japanese were also in blue and white leggings.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 10: 59
            +4
            The Japanese were also in blue and white leggings.

            Yes, and they also changed their uniforms, apparently during the war.

            The figures on the left and in the center are the summer field uniform of 1904, on the right is the Japanese infantryman as early as 1905.
        3. Undecim
          Undecim 10 July 2020 11: 50
          +5
          Here is a 1907 painting by Roubaud, "Attack of the Novocherkassk Regiment on the Shakhe River", hangs in the same place. The fighters are already in protective gear.
          On the Shah River (this is already October), the "fighters" in winter uniforms, which were never white, were gray-blue (the middle figure in your photo from the museum).
          The white tunic was a summer traveling uniform.
          Officially, the protective color was introduced following the results of the RPE in 1907.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 12: 48
            +4
            On the Shah River (this is already October), the "fighters" in winter uniforms, which were never white, were gray-blue (the middle figure in your photo from the museum).

            Thank you so much, but I ask for my additional enlightenment!drinks
            According to the average figure. Paragraph 2 on the signature.

            They write - summer. As well as the colonel awarded by "Anna". Error?
            The question is still in the picture of Roubaud, sir! They are in tunics. Not cold? October, though ...
            Enlighten me! drinks
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 10 July 2020 12: 57
              +5
              Unter - the officers obviously didn’t wear white tunics, it was a form of lower ranks.
              As for October, the old style is still September.

              From left to right: Private soldier of the 16th Grenadier Mingrel Regiment Alexei Semenovich Usachev, Private Private of the 1st Caucasian Engineer Battalion Mikhail Bochkarev, Private Private of the 16th Grenadier Regiment Mikhail Borisov. 1903 year.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 13: 17
                +6
                I understood only one thing, in that form - you will break your brains. True, in modern too ...
                Viktor Nikolaevich, the last question - what were the hats of the lower ranks then? Somewhere caps, somewhere caps-caps, as I understand it.

                The lamb hat "a la Alexander III" was apparently not used in that war, but was replaced by a normal hat. This hat is really doubtful, because it costs nothing to freeze ears in it. The black tunic, it seems, was also unused.
                1. kalibr
                  10 July 2020 13: 26
                  +6
                  You can break your brains in any shape. For example, here is the classic khaki form described by Boussénard. Everything seems to be clear ... But ... there was also a continental khaki uniform of a completely different color and with a lot of colored edges and bands. She was called "colored khaki". I want to write everything about her and ... there is not enough material!
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 13: 45
                    +4
                    She was called "colored khaki". I want to write everything about her and ... there is not enough material!

                    Perhaps some of those present, who are in the subject, will be able to help. I honestly haven’t heard of such a form! hi
                    1. kalibr
                      10 July 2020 15: 47
                      +5
                      Even in England little is known about her !!! I read an article about her in the Military Modeling magazine in 1995. I wanted to translate ... but it was so difficult that I put it off, and then it all ended up in the "trash". And what color drawings were there ...
                2. Undecim
                  Undecim 10 July 2020 13: 32
                  +6
                  Oddly enough, I did not find an accessible, systematic and detailed description of the evolution of the military uniform of the Russian Army .. Everything is scattered, sometimes one information contradicts the other.
                  I can answer with confidence that a cap with a visor for the lower ranks was introduced as an everyday dress along with a protective uniform in 1907.
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 10 July 2020 13: 39
                    +6
                    Oddly enough, I did not find an accessible, systematic and detailed description of the evolution of the military uniform of the Russian Army .. Everything is scattered, sometimes one information contradicts the other.

                    Probably the last to do this by Viskovatov! request
                  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 July 2020 20: 48
                    +4
                    Quote: Undecim
                    Oddly enough, I did not find an accessible, systematic and detailed description of the evolution of the military uniform of the Russian Army .. Everything is scattered, sometimes one information contradicts the other.
                    I can answer with confidence that a cap with a visor for the lower ranks was introduced as an everyday dress along with a protective uniform in 1907.

                    I would like to draw your attention to the book by A. Begunova “The Way Through the Ages”. Written for children of high school age, just uniform uniforms from Kievan Rus to 1917. The illustrations are simply amazing !!!
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 10 July 2020 21: 02
            +3
            Not officially during the war. Now I don’t remember, but look for scrap, but did S. Witte put on khaki officials on the eve of the REV?
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 13 July 2020 09: 30
              +2
              Now I don’t remember, but look for scrap, but did S. Witte put on khaki officials on the eve of the RIA?

              At least that's what Stepanov writes in Port Arthur. hi
      2. Lynx2000
        Lynx2000 10 July 2020 13: 57
        +3
        Similarly, he turned to the Japanese notes of Kuropatkin during his visit to Japan from May to July 1903 on the cruiser Askold:

        "A DIARY

        from June 16, 1903 to July 1, 1903

        June 16, 1903 the cruiser Askold

        Our stay in Japan took place in the following order:

        May 26 departure from Vladivostok.

        28 morning arrival in Shimonoseki.

        29 in the morning with a courier train to Tokyo.

        30 in the morning (7 h. 30 m.) Arrival in Tokyo. Stop at the summer palace. Breakfast at Baron Rosen. A gala dinner in our palace.

        May 31, presentation to the emperor. Breakfast at the emperor. Lunch at the Japanese Minister of War.

        June 1 parade of troops. Breakfast at Prince Fushimi. Lunch at the Japanese Foreign Minister.

        June 2 inspection of the cadet and military schools, arsenal. Breakfast in the arsenal garden at the Chief of General Staff Oyama. Lunch at our messenger.

        June 3 departure to Kyoto. Arrival there. Inspection of the city.

        June 4, inspection of Kyoto. In the evening, departure to Kobe and arrival there.

        June 5, inspection of the exhibition in Osaka.

        June 6, inspection of Kobe, transfer to the village of Shiva.

        June 7-11 in the village Shiva. Fishing. Inspection of the surroundings.

        June departure from Kobe on the Askold to Nagasaki by the Mediterranean Sea.

        June arrival at 5 pm in Nagasaki.

        June in Nagasaki.

        June departure from Nagasaki.

        June at sea.

        June 17 arrival in Port Arthur. "

        Kuropatkin pays attention to every little thing, in military affairs, or in civil life.
        About the gift, most likely would have noted in the diary.
        Perhaps his notes published were not in full ...
  8. Astra wild
    Astra wild 10 July 2020 14: 55
    +7
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, what do you think when armor is made?
    I had no idea that in the Russian outback there would be samurai armor
    1. kalibr
      10 July 2020 15: 42
      +5
      Such armor could have been made anywhere from 1575 to 1867. Therefore, it can be both old and "new". It is possible to determine precisely only by examining the brand of the master, but it was not always.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 14 July 2020 08: 25
        +1
        It is without a doubt the 19th century
        1. kalibr
          15 July 2020 12: 39
          0
          Probably yes"!
  9. vladcub
    vladcub 10 July 2020 19: 28
    +5
    I have an official version in doubt: 1) Kuropatkin did not note in the diary that he had bought or presented him with armor.
    2) he had a wonderful collection of weapons and the library totaled 10 books and 000 to 9 that he had plundered. Of course, something could miraculously survive: with a dozen books, some papers, some kind of knife or sex, somewhere behind a chest of drawers, but 10 kg of armor?
    3) the son was shot in 1920, the daughter-in-law was left with 2 small children. By the way, Wik says: how did their fate turn out? It is unlikely that she will cherish any piece of iron.
    Perhaps in the post-war years, someone was sorting out old trash and found these armor. Perhaps it was a family affair to fantasize like that: a grandfather got a stribble from some general, and the heir was an amateur historian and knew that there was Kuropatkin's estate there.
    In any case, thanks to the man who brought the armor to the museum
  10. certero
    certero 12 July 2020 00: 45
    +2
    The Japanese are very lucky that they are far from Europe. By the standards of European military affairs, this armor simply did not protect anything in the 14-15th century :)
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 14 July 2020 08: 26
      +1
      And he shouldn’t, for beauty he stood in his office