Amateurs instead of lieutenants

This result, apparently, will come the reform of military education


Amateurs instead of lieutenantsThe following circumstances inspired us to write this article. Russian leaders sound positive assessments of the course and results of the reform of our Armed Forces. But at the same time, the number of criticisms on the same occasion of officers and reserve generals and retired experts is still not decreasing. Why is this happening? If everything is really so good, why do people who have given decades of military service or pay close attention to the problems of the army and fleet, so negatively perceive the changes taking place there?

But we decided to devote our material not to the consideration of the reform of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation as a whole, but to questions of military education, since this topic was repeatedly covered in the pages of the newspaper “Military Industrial Complex”.

On the one hand, the experience and knowledge of their country are ignored and, at the same time, someone else’s experience is blindly copied, clearly aimed at the collapse of military science and military education, reducing their importance for the defense capability of Russia. On the other hand, a decision has already been made, reductions, mergers and acquisitions have been carried out, the recruitment of cadets has been canceled, the number of layoffs in the faculty has been calculated in hundreds, and the pillars of military education have been relocated from the capitals to the outskirts. What can be changed now?

Only one thing - to stop the education reform and give professionals, taking into account all the comments made by the experts, to try to restore the lost positions. Because the continuation of the reform will not allow Russia to educate the galaxy of great military commanders, to raise great scientists, or to protect the country in the upcoming battles.

Not so smooth

The problems of military science and military education have been repeatedly considered: first at the round table in the State Duma under the chairmanship of State Duma deputy, member of the Committee on Defense Vyacheslav Tetekin, then at hearings in the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation. In the future, these issues were raised at a meeting of the Club of Military Commanders of Russia and, finally, analyzed at a meeting of the Committee on Defense of the State Duma of the Russian Federation.

Such an intensity of consideration of issues of military science reform and military education only underlines both the significance of this process and the fact that everything is not so smooth with the ongoing reform. So many professionals in their field cannot, military experts differ so greatly in their assessments.

In the course of these discussions, three very important positions are clearly outlined, declared by the heads of the Department of Education of the Ministry of Education, from which they are repelled in their work.

first - Civil education was taken as a basis, and the heads of the Ministry of Defense and the Department of Education do not understand the difference between military and civil education, adopting the Bologna Declaration of the EU countries, designed to promote the convergence and harmonization of European civil education systems.

Second - Once again, the leadership of the Department of Education acknowledged that there is no single document analyzing all reform processes, conclusions of military and civilian scientists, Chief of General Staff as the head of the commission for the reform of military science and military education and approved by the President of the Russian Federation.

The third - The approval of the leadership of the Department of Education: "Why train officers to the same higher education three times, these are huge costs for the state."

From the point of view of the modern theory of knowledge "the main purpose of specialized knowledge is to adequately reflect one's object, identify its essential elements, structural connections, patterns, accumulate and deepen knowledge, serve as a source of reliable information." Does the chief of the General Staff, as a leader responsible for military science and military education, really not know that strategy, operational art and tactics, which are included in the theory of military art as one of the constituent parts of modern military science, are inherently independent, indispensable and ununiteable? the definition of fundamental military specialties. Even the MAS for these specialties were always different. And for each of these specialties there should be a fundamental, separate, comprehensive military education.

And within five years, a cadet of “fundamental higher professional education and full military special training” is a bluff. Higher military education cannot be a “military training,” even a “special,” and even more so received during a three- and ten-month course.

What we have, do not store

Prior to the current military reform, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation had a three-tier military education system inherited from the USSR Armed Forces, recognized as the best in the world.

On the first level there was a military school, according to the civil classification of the university - an educational institution of higher vocational education. It gave fundamental knowledge through the faculties and departments of one main specialty (command - tactical) and one profile (unlike the institute) civilian specialty (operating engineer, or translator, or lawyer).

Such education allowed, without additional expenditure of funds and time, to the officer in any conditions of the situation to perform duties for three to five positions above the full-time position, moving both horizontally and vertically. However, even between the first and second levels there were also intermediate courses in the form of additional advanced training courses, for example, the Shot courses.

Let's take a quick look at how the professionalism of an officer in the army grew over time. Everything went from simple to complex, from organizing classes with a platoon, company, battalion in all subjects of training to obtaining and assimilating the knowledge and skills acquired in the course of company, battalion, regimental, divisional, army, groups of troops (district, front-line) tactical, operational and strategic exercises and training in various fields. And this is the first level of education.

Second level - This is a military academy, according to civil classification - a university, a higher educational institution that implements educational programs of higher and postgraduate professional education in a wide range of specialties (at least seven directions). For three years, the military academy gave fundamental higher military knowledge in several specialties (command-based, operational staff), training command and staff specialists.

The knowledge gained at the military academy made it possible to successfully master the tactical level (regiment), the operational-tactical level (division) and fruitfully work at the operational level (army), and, if necessary, successfully fulfill the duties of three to five positions above.

Existed in military academies and correspondence faculties, in which the officers studied independently on the job for a long time.

Third level - Military Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. For civil qualifications - an academy specializing in training in one area. Both in the Soviet and in the post-Soviet time, the Higher Military and Civil Engineering Service for two years trained the elite for the army and navy, as well as state structures. This category included generals from all power structures, senior officers of the General Staff, military diplomats and civilian leaders of regions, ministries and departments. The contingent of trainees, the orientation of training, the fullness of the training groups made it possible to let out from the walls of the academy highly qualified specialists in the fields of state and military administration, who knew how to strengthen the country's defense capability. How many civil servants are currently studying at the academy, how many deputies of both chambers of the Federal Assembly have learned and how many are planned to receive? There are no answers to these questions.

Foreign military personnel stood alone, who were fully trained at all three levels, and among them there were quite a lot of representatives from developed countries, and not only from third world states. How many such cadets and students now?

Fundamental knowledge gained by military leaders in the Soviet and Russian military schools allowed them to successfully solve any combat missions in any situation and to grow successfully through the ranks, in addition the country received civilian specialists who were knowledgeable about the state’s defense.

Thus, military science and military education, built up over decades and tested in battles and battles from the Civil War to the operation to force Georgia to peace, proved its advantages, its individuality, its national character - the character of the Winner.

In vain take a cue from America

For comparison, and very briefly: from which such supersystem is Russia's military education completely copied? Yes, with the US Army training system. For the sake of objectivity, it should be noted that a lot of positive things can and should be adopted, especially in connection with the modern automation of the educational process. But we must take only what is needed, and not stupidly copy. Copying is always unviable, dead.

There are no examples of victories over an adversary superior or equal in this American military education system, and this leaves its imprints.

first - replacement of officers for sergeants, as in the US Army. But 100 or 200 sergeants with training for almost three years will not fill the army with a sufficient number of specialists to the extent necessary, and they will not replace the officers in the Russian army, they will not change the mentality of the Russians. This was known from the very beginning of the experiment, but only now, three years later, we are going back to the old one, we are transferring non-commissioned officers to officer positions. The question arises: who figured out what damage was caused by this rash decision, starting from the prestige of junior officers and ending with the prestige of the army and the state? Do we have that every decision will be so easy to make and change?

Second - future military officers of the US Armed Forces entered military schools after receiving education in civilian universities. Military training took place in a little over two years. Further training of officers took place on ordinary courses with a training period of up to 12 months. True, all this was called their academy, and we have courses.

The third - in the USA there really are three military academies of the Armed Forces, which are the main educational institutions of the Pentagon: Military Academy at West Point, Naval Academy in Annapolis, Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. Training in these academies lasts four years and, according to the level of training of students, with a stretch, meets the criteria of military schools of the Russian Federation. However, in accordance with established practice, graduates of military academies receive a more privileged position in relation to other officers and are promoted more quickly. All the rest is military departments of universities, courses, schools, and colleges of various levels and purposes. We practically dispersed our military departments.

Fourth - The system of American military education includes the University of National Defense (DNA), which is overseen by the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States. This is an analogue of our General Staff Academy, which has been turned into a vocational school by the number of departments, the duration of training, and the number of students. Please note that the DNA was created only in 1976, more than 140 years later than the Russian Higher Military School of Civil Aviation, to "achieve success in professional military education and training of military and civilian specialists for senior political, command and staff positions."

The university consists of four colleges and one research institute. Training is carried out for one year, officers are accepted in the rank of not lower than the lieutenant colonel. Representatives of the State Department, the Ministry of Finance, the CIA, the National Security Agency and other agencies, as well as employees of private companies that work under contracts with the Ministry of Defense are also trained in DNA.

Instead of our 10 – 15 students of the Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation at the National Military College, organizationally part of DNA, up to 200 people are trained annually. These are cadres for top management of the US military and government agencies.

In total, around a thousand soldiers and civil servants are trained annually at the DNA. We have the same officers with the formation of the General Staff Academy in the entire General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation there will be no more than 10 percent!

And this list is completed by the theoretical component of DNA - the Institute for National Strategic Studies, which deals with scientific developments in the field of international relations, military policy and strategy.

Thus, a brief conclusion can be made: the main advantages of the Russian military school for unknown reasons have been removed in the course of the reform, and the dubious successes of the primary level of the American military school have been fully implemented.

The results of this reform of military education are left to wait quite a while.

Extra people?

Let us try to express our vision of the problems that have arisen, in our estimation, in the course of the reform of military education, and predict the future of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, or rather, the future of Russia, because semi-literate senior officers will not be able to accomplish their combat missions to protect the Motherland. And others, unfortunately, will not be able to prepare this system.

Let's start with main problemin the management of the military education system.

Before its reform, the chief of the General Staff was personally responsible for all military science and military education through the Center for Military Strategic Studies and the Military Scientific Committee of the General Staff. These were supra-specific scientific bodies that carried out the general management of the organization of military scientific research and inter-specific and interdepartmental research. The views of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation had their own military scientific committees and the Central Scientific Research Institute dealing with the development of armaments, the development of theory and practice, tactics and operational art of the corresponding type of Armed Forces.

The decentralization of military science and military education has now been carried out. There is no main thing - a centralized system of military science, and therefore a unified leadership. The military-scientific complex was crushed into several parts. Some scientific research institutes subordinated to the Military Scientific Committee of the Ministry of Defense, others - to the Deputy Minister of Defense. The remaining organizations, including the Center for Military Strategic Studies, the Institute of Military stories and a number of others, introduced into the VAGSH, having subordinated to the Department of Education. But how can he fulfill the direct duties of the chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces?

In the absence of a coordinating role of the General Staff, today each department develops its own scientific complex independently, without taking into account the interests and advanced experience of other ministries, there are no joint interdepartmental studies. This is especially dangerous in the context of the growth of a wide range of not only external threats, but also changes in direction, increasing the volume of internal threats, when non-traditional methods and techniques are required to reflect them.

Second problem The further development of military science and military education is the question of developing for this new standards and approaches. And here the domestic three hundred year experience accumulated since the time of Peter the Great has been completely forgotten. After all, it so happened historically that Russia's military education has always differed not only from the civil system, but also from the military education of others, including the leading countries of the world. And its advanced character, importance, expediency have been repeatedly proved on the battlefields, starting with the battle of Poltava. It was not by chance that students and cadets from all over the world (and after the collapse of the USSR and from NATO countries) sought to study with us, noting the advantages of our military school.

Now the emphasis in the standards of military education is placed on the supposedly advanced experience of the United States and Russian civil science. According to the officials of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, “these are the so-called third generation standards. They were developed at the Ministry of Defense with the participation of leading civilian higher educational institutions: Bauman Moscow State Technical University, MAI, Moscow State University, St. Petersburg State University, MGIMO, and other leading universities. A large part in the development of federal state standards was taken by defense industry enterprises whose products will be operated by graduates of military universities. ”

We do not question the professionalism of scientists and employees of respected universities, but why there are no military schools in this list. Where are the scientists of the Military Academy of the General Staff, other military academies, where the Military Scientific Committee of the General Staff, the academic council of the Ministry of Defense, who were to prepare an official document for the report to the Minister and the approval of the Commander-in-Chief? Meanwhile, it was on the basis of this document that the reform of military education should be carried out. Are we now going to train in military schools not commanders, but effective managers?

Third problem military science and military education - direct training of cadets and students in military specialties. And here new tasks are set: recruiting the army and navy with “qualified military specialists”, “dramatically increasing the level of graduates” and fulfilling the main task - “reaching a new quality of military education”. During the service and work, none of the authors had a chance to deal closely with issues of military education, but these tasks were, are and will be. A new, cardinal approach in their scoring is not visible.

From the foregoing, it turns out that earlier the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the USSR and Russia required competent military personnel, people with diplomas of two or three military universities, fully trained, able to apply their fundamental knowledge as intended. But aren’t such specialists necessary for Glavkverkha now? Personally, we have very big doubts about this.

It is urgent to correct errors

And now about the problems that one cannot but see when considering the results of the reform of the military education system.

First - the concentration of military schools, first of all, military academies of various profiles (commanding, engineering), and combining various types and types of troops in one place in one place and on the same territory can lead to the loss of all training, material and scientific in the first hours of armed conflict the bases, to the death of the teaching staff and cadets, the listeners while delivering targeted blows to them. And the fact that such objects will be included in the list of primary targets of attack, we have no doubt.

The second - the concentration of military schools and military academies in the so-called military-scientific training centers for the types of the Armed Forces - Ground Forces, Air Force and Navy not only lowers the status of the highest military education, de-identifies it, but also affects the further adaptation and social protection of military personnel after their dismissal from military service and employment in civilian work. And no additional three-month refresher courses will change that. After all, the new concept of the reform of military education does not provide for the elaboration of a question by the Ministry of Defense for mandatory employment of servicemen who have served deadlines or who quit due to other circumstances. But this is one of the significant benefits that can additionally attract high-class specialists to the army.

The third - Concentration of military educational institutions in the VUNC cannot, despite the measures taken by the NGS to approve the topics of scientific work (they were previously approved), have a positive impact on the development of military science in general and on the development of strategies and operational art of types and types of troops. This will soon lead to even greater lagging, both from the theoretical and from the practical side of the military science of the leading countries of the world.

The fourth - the withdrawal of military schools outside the city, especially Moscow and St. Petersburg, with the subsequent sale of capital territories deprives future military leaders of the cultural component of training and development. The US National Defense University is located in Washington.

Fifth - the educational process in military academies was not only in the interests of training students, scientific work was carried out, during which students best prepared for scientific and pedagogical activity became teachers or scientists in military and civilian research institutes, joined the ranks of the defense industry specialists. And this allowed science not to break away from practice, and the officers, coming to the research institutes and the defense industry complex, knew what the troops needed today and for the future.

Who will now replenish the staff of scientific organizations MO?

Sixth - The system of selection of candidates for military schools was destroyed due to the lack of recruitment of cadets for two years. We are not talking about the interrupted military dynasties, this damage to the system of training officers Russia is unlikely to be restored even for decades.

Seventh - the principle of basic approaches in the education and training of cadets has been violated. The principle of military education is being replaced by the principle of “teaching students”, and this will later turn into troops, which will move “without a system”, discuss orders to go into battle today or postpone until tomorrow. Having not felt the principle of the collective, being in the barracks, the officer will not be able to control the soldier, become a model for him, authority, will not be able to cultivate in him courage, resilience, the ability to sacrifice himself, devotion to ideals and the Motherland. And without this there will be no sustainability of the army, there will be no country. Giving the main priority in the recruitment and training of cadets to physical training, we prepare not competent officers, but executors of someone else's will.

Yes, and who determined who justified what is needed in the growing conditions external threats, open anti-Russian statements of Western politicians, declaring Russia the enemy number 1, increasing the internal threat of creating controlled chaos by conducting "orange revolutions" have the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation number one million military men?

Recall the words of an American political scientist and statesman Zbigniew Brzezinski: “Russia must be eliminated completely as a civilization, while remaining a single entity in a geographical sense. However, such a liquidation should not follow the path of dismantling - it is precisely on this path that disintegration inevitably awaits it, but should be included in the Atlantic civilization as a whole, freed from the slightest signs of independence and identification. ”

Our fate has been decided for us, the main duty of Russia and its people as a slave of Western civilization is to supply raw materials to the countries of the “golden billion” and be cannon fodder in the fight against the Muslim world and developing China, protecting the US and Europe from these threats. Thus, we have very little quiet time left.

So, it is necessary to immediately re-start the construction of military science and military education in the Russian Federation, taking into account the experience of the Soviet Union and Russia. And only such actions as one of the radical ways to correct the mistakes made can save the country.
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  1. Delink 4 August 2012 09: 02 New
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    Why did our stools begin reform? And you need to drive them from these posts. Put personnel officers who went through fire, water and copper pipes.
    Return as it was

    So, it is necessary to immediately re-start the construction of military science and military education in the Russian Federation, taking into account the experience of the Soviet Union and Russia. And only such actions as one of the radical ways to correct the mistakes made can save the country.
    1. slas
      slas 4 August 2012 10: 28 New
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      all these reformers probably look like a locksmith whom they put to work instead of a cook --- they saw what dish it was and what they cook, they don’t know how
      1. APASUS 5 August 2012 16: 39 New
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        Quote: slas
        all these reformers probably look like a locksmith whom they put to work instead of a cook --- they saw what dish it was and what they cook, they don’t know how

        This is because the main quality when appointing to a high position is personal loyalty, not professionalism. Now in almost every area there is clan management !!! If you are at least a waist from a tree, but your relative is a minister, you will be his deputy !! !!
        1. slas
          slas 5 August 2012 22: 43 New
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          APASUS This is because the main quality in appointing a high position is personal devotion, not professionalism. ------------------ but if loyalty and professionalism would be a complete paradise laughing
        2. Lieutenant colonel 6 August 2012 01: 44 New
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          The army is controlled by the losers!
          1. Alex63
            Alex63 6 August 2012 05: 27 New
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            Yes, it’s not the twosomes who rule the army, but criminals rule the country. President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev have the very place in the pancreas chamber (the mildest punishment), and not in the chairs in the Kremlin and the White House.
    2. VAF
      VAF 4 August 2012 10: 47 New
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      Quote: Delink

      Why did our stools begin reform?


      The article is very ... good and useful ... for ... thinking. especially .. favored !!! +!

      You too, +! for koment, but I'm afraid to recreate what was, is almost impossible, because the worst thing is that these "reformers" "created", not the destruction of the base, but the "destruction" of personnel !!!

      I would, with my bluntness, or whatever they say ... solidity ... wrote ... harder !!!

      That's just the question, but what does Taburetkin have to do with it ???? hi In our army all my life there was ONE-BEGINNING !!!

      And if not. it’s not the army anymore, but .. THE collective farm (in the bad sense of the word)!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 4 August 2012 12: 51 New
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        To break something acting is a simple matter, but to restore it is not enough for your whole life! I’m afraid that the broken can no longer be restored - beyond the power of the country ...
      2. sazhka0
        sazhka0 4 August 2012 19: 04 New
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        Sergey You are wrong.))) If this is not written, then there will be nothing to talk about. So Uzbekistan is worried. What is it for ?
      3. vadimN 20 September 2012 15: 26 New
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        Quote: vaf
        The article is very ... good and useful ... for ... thinking. special


        ... it is, of course, yes ... But, who reads it? (as well as other critical materials on the topic of defense and military education). Unless there are people who live on this and other similar sites. I am sure that not a single official, on whom at least something depends, has never been to such sites. And if I’ve been, or even managed to read something, then he doesn’t care ... That's why they behave according to the principle "And Vaska listens, but eats."

        And from the fact that we, my friends, will once again wash the bones here with Taburetkin and others like him, nothing will change ...., unfortunately ...
    3. Stas57 4 August 2012 11: 15 New
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      Why did our stools begin reform? And you need to drive them from these posts. Put personnel officers who went through fire, water and copper pipes.
      Return as it was

      a career officer who went through fire and ... is not always a good administrator and manager, and an honest person.
      Gromov is an example to you.
      Unfortunately, the era has passed when people like Uncle Vasya were in positions of power, they fought in the war, they had experience, they had special experience in management, and they knew what to do, etc.
      And now, when the whole country cares about one thing, how to squeeze out grandmothers, why do you think that the army will be different, the era of universal mediocrity and the race for dough
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 4 August 2012 12: 52 New
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        In fact, for Gromov almost always, not very good fame was counted ...
      2. beech
        beech 5 August 2012 22: 54 New
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        the top officers, especially in Tsarist Russia, with rare exceptions, were always weak, therefore there were very disappointing losses and defeats, but there are no soldiers and junior officers like Russia anywhere !!! We are all envious in this sense !!! You don’t need to look up to the Western armies, this will not roll with us. To crush the Soviet - in general betrayal and amateurism, it was necessary to slightly modernize and modernize the training system. To reduce the number of armies is worse than betrayal, we are not some kind of Germany, England or France, we have the largest territory, and no one has canceled the wars comparable to the 1st and 2nd world wars !!!
      3. vadimN 20 September 2012 15: 30 New
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        The era is made by people ... And people like the Uncle Vasya you mentioned (I hope everyone understands who they are) were prepared and put into the leading ranks of the SYSTEM. And the entire current reform of military education is aimed at destroying this SYSTEM. So that she began to nominate not bright and strong personalities, but quiet gray performers ... It’s easier to manage such people, and you shouldn’t be afraid ...
    4. ZAVET
      ZAVET 4 August 2012 12: 49 New
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      The command staff of the aircraft should have at least LEADER qualities.
      Recall the school. How many true (informal leaders) were in each class? Right one or two no more. This is for thirty people.
      And how many of them became military? In my memory, no one. FORMAL (fake) leaders "serve."
      The system of military education in the USSR is a forge of OFFICIALS from the Ministry of Defense, and not from the military. This is not critical only for peacetime. An official can NOT be a good military man, since the principles of bureaucracy are not completely compatible with the male warrior PROGRAMS.
      True, it’s EASY TO MANAGE.
      In addition, the military is a certain character warehouse (risk aversion, courage, and we can talk about the notorious killer gene, which is found in about 2% of the population).
      By the way, why did they take the American military education system as an example?
      It was correct to use the EXAMPLE of GERMANS. where there has always been a certain caste of the military. And the results of the German system are more obvious.

      I know a lot of military men, their attitude to life, work, their fears do not differ at all from the behavior of an ordinary state official.
      The same attempts to discard responsibility, to evade fulfillment of one’s duties, not to be exposed to at least any risk.
      It is not even hiding.
      The same officials, only in uniform. This practice must be stopped.
      RUSSIA NEEDS TRUE MILITARY.
      1. Plus 36,6
        Plus 36,6 4 August 2012 19: 41 New
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        Tired of bans and a little rating - DOWNLOAD the TOR browser prog, bypassed any ban and created at least 20 accounts on this site.
        We will let all the marshals and administrators crawl together.
        Let's arrange them here - Bolotnaya Square
        And then they’ve gotten a bite already
      2. AleksUkr 4 August 2012 21: 04 New
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        For your information, your Russians praised your Germans were beaten repeatedly by our Russians, Soviet, trained according to our system. I would like to remind you on May 9, 1945, when their system suffered a final, and I hope an irrevocable defeat. DO NOT WAIT !.
        1. ZAVET
          ZAVET 4 August 2012 22: 37 New
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          THE MOTHERLAND was defended by my GRANDFATES, who had nothing to do with the cadre officers.
          And the bureaucrats clerks missed the start of the war. And this is a fact.
          The war was won by SIMPLE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

          You cannot repeat the mistakes of the past.
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 4 August 2012 22: 42 New
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            Bureaucrats-bureaucrats died at the beginning of the war, making it possible with their resistance to carry out mobilization and to prepare the formed units in the slightest degree.
            1. slav4ikus 8 November 2012 17: 28 New
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              where did they die ???? you confuse something amiable! they died in fear in the classrooms
          2. Colonel 4 August 2012 22: 51 New
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            ZAVET, looking at whom to read personnel officers - bureaucrats. If this is about personnel officers of the 41st year, then the "prosrali" is not about them. Despite the illiterate political leadership, they were able to do what no army in the world was able to do - they bleed so much blood to the Germans that they immediately noticed Russian weather, Russian open spaces, and Russian impassability. Without a personnel red army, there would have been no victory.
            1. ZAVET
              ZAVET 5 August 2012 09: 48 New
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              Well, I went too far. I admit it.
              But it is NECESSARY to change the system of military education !.
              1. DIMS
                DIMS 5 August 2012 10: 42 New
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                That's changing. Schools are dispersed, excellent teachers go to retire and to civilian universities. The system is changing at full speed. It’s cheaper to prepare a semi-literate officer from a student, and the war will begin, he will turn into a literate officer in half a year. If survives.
          3. AleksUkr 5 August 2012 17: 42 New
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            From the first days of the war, my Parents fought. The father joined the battle on the 4th day of the war. Test a little later. They cannot be blamed for not starting a war well. Simple Russian people without military personnel they just didn’t win. So a person who has no idea about ... in a word - an amateur can say. Yes, I agree that the PEOPLE won the war. This is what Stalin said. But someone should control the army, the people, and preferably not the chicks Serdyukov. This year the State Fire Examination was canceled at the RVVDKU. Does this mean anything to you? The army does not need a true military, as ZAVET claims, but military personnel well prepared for modern combat. The word MILITARY - this is what they previously called two-year-olds, many of whom were a real parody of a professional. But in the army of a new look, such professionals are very much appreciated. An example is Kvashnin, Serdyukov ...
      3. Gregazov 4 August 2012 23: 02 New
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        Fortunately, family military traditions have always been and still are in Russia. There were also nations capable of war, such as the Cossacks. Therefore, the example with the Germans is simply incorrect. The leadership qualities of our command staff have always been and are, and in peacetime, always and under any authority, the power was suppressed by those who hold them (in order to save the "real" leader). The reform in the army was caused for a long time by political decisions (the content of the budget for the purchase of weapons and the payment of salaries). Only the warriors most devoted to military service remained in the Russian Army from the Soviet Army, whom it was impossible to expel from the army without a beggarly salary, lack of weapons, or the attention of the press and committees of soldiers' mothers. They were simply kicked out. And in order to finally break the succession from the Army, the victors destroyed the military schools.
        1. ZAVET
          ZAVET 5 August 2012 11: 41 New
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          At present, QUALITATIVE rather than quantitative characteristics of the aircraft come first.
          If the RUSSIAN PEOPLE WINNER (and not her regular military personnel) could stop the Great Patriotic United European Europe,
          then at the present time such an opportunity may not exist, there will not be enough time.
          Obviously, it is necessary to conduct a serious selection for those wishing to serve professionally:
          choose the brave, strong, decisive, genetically, psychologically prepared for war
          Obviously, such people should begin to serve from the bottom. There must be constant competition between them. The most worthy should go up.
          BUT THIS WILL AUTOMATICALLY CREATE A NEW POWER CENTER IN THE STATE AND WITH THE MILITARY ELITE HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTED EVERYTHING.
          It `s naturally. Biologically justified. The right of the strong.
          Therefore, it is easier to keep officials under the guise of the military in peacetime. I wanted to kicked out, I wanted to dial again. THEY ARE RESISTANT. WEAKNESSES. And if anything, they can be plugged with grants.
          1. Gregazov 5 August 2012 21: 33 New
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            What type of troops did you serve in and what rank? You draw such global conclusions on the basis of such idealistic ideas that you unwittingly betray an amateurish approach to solving your problems of military development.
            1. ZAVET
              ZAVET 5 August 2012 22: 34 New
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              Are you talking about rags on your shoulders? OOOO.
              At the bottom there is a link to the article "Initiative Price" and "The Decay Theory".
              It clearly states that the peacetime army is a kind of circus of "stupid and lazy" officials. "People of War" appear during the years of war. And they do not care about the color hierarchy of multi-colored rags on their shoulders. Rod (Homeland and Fatherland) has always been saved by people genetically capable of war from birth, and unfortunately they usually do not serve in the army.

              Army bureaucrats are fired by lawlessness, recruited again.
              THEY ARE EVEN NOT ABLE TO PROTECT MYSELF, not that their KIND.
              THEY ARE WEAKNESS. The country needs others.
              1. DIMS
                DIMS 5 August 2012 22: 48 New
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                Didn’t they take you into the army because of flat feet, and now you are looking for theories that justify that "but the war will begin, I will show them all"? Do not hope, everything is not so simple as it seems to you.
    5. beech
      beech 5 August 2012 22: 47 New
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      well, the reform was generally needed, because fighting with combined battalions, like in Chechnya and Ossetia, can be done before the first serious enemy, and the paratroopers may not help (there are too few of them, only 35 thousand). But the reform is carried out somehow obliquely and crookedly, it is clear that the Defense Ministry did not take into account its mistakes in previous attempts to reform !!!
    6. Alex63
      Alex63 6 August 2012 05: 25 New
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      The whole thing is not in Serdyukov alone. He also has bosses who order all the music. Only an enemy of the people could appoint a furniture manager to lead the defense of our country, such a definition was given to them earlier and it has not outlived itself now. Why does no one directly say that Putin and Medvedev are enemies of the people. They must be judged by our, people's court and brought to the most severe answer. And with them in the same chamber awaiting execution they put their lackeys from education, defense, health, the Ministry of Emergencies, industry, transport, etc. etc. Reforms drive our country farther and farther into the abyss. Everyone listens to the populist Putin and looking into his mouth, quotes his fabrications, giving them the status of truth in the last instance. Putin must be stopped before it’s too late. When the country understands this, time will be lost.
      1. beech
        beech 6 August 2012 09: 52 New
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        unfortunately you're right !!!
        1. Alex63
          Alex63 6 August 2012 13: 55 New
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          If you heard me, then maybe somewhere else there are those who understand that this mess has not been in our country for so long. RUSSIAN OFFICERS, WHERE ARE YOU? OR HAVE YOU PUTIN-MEDVEDEV'S DELIVERY SUBMITTED? RUSSIAN MILITARY (PRESENT, AND NOT PUMPING AUTHORITIES) ALWAYS STAND FOR RUSSIA AND IF THE KING SELLED THE COUNTRY, RISED AGAINST IT, CHOPPED HIS HEAD. SAY THIS POWER NO! Or am I wrong?
          1. Z.A.M. 6 August 2012 16: 12 New
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            Alex63

            Yes, right, right ...
            You are not alone, on the site WE are ... Well, there are enough patriots.
            In order not to be unsubstantiated, if not laziness, read my comments at least superficially. I think, even on the site, we will be associates.
            Basically, speaking out in defense of Putin, his adherents look at the momentary, necessary for ANY leader, not deferred affairs. And even more often, they cite his promising words. At the same time, apparently forgetting that any action, deed, CASE - has a result in the future, in the future. And the future is not only "tomorrow", but in a year or five. Assume what the reform in the army, the entry into the WTO, the collapse of education, the indulgence (not remark) of corrupted TV, the distortion of history and all kinds of plugging of RUSSIAN culture and RUSSIAN self-determination, will lead to, what is the result of COMPLETE ... But I see - to anything good.
            Naturally, Putin distracts for everything, for that he is the president. But for some, it still seems that he is trying, but they interfere with him. You can’t convince ... Yes, and tired. His adherents are constantly repeating - LOOK. And they "watchmen" will get tired ... But it will be too late.
            So you are not alone ...
            1. Alex63
              Alex63 7 August 2012 09: 20 New
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              No one wants a forceful solution to the problem that has matured in our country. But putinoids constantly scare us with a forceful solution to the conflict. The townsfolk are being led by their “scarecrows” and, fearing a civil explosion, again and again bring to power Putin and his lackey minions. But a normal and sensible society, to which I belong, too, wants the right solution. Putin simply will not give up power from his own hands. The coup d'etat is also not necessary for us. An attempt on this freak to do is a lot of money and nerves, and I don’t want to present the martyr with a halo. Enough hype with Ukrainian false terrorists. Anyway, I feel sorry for such ghouls and bullets. Put them in the swamp so that the tadpoles are devoured. But this is so, from hatred of Putin. But in general - until we ourselves stop listening and worshiping populists and cunts .. to the people, until we stop serving on their handouts, until we themselves turn the backbone - there will be no way out. They sell the country, education in the w ... pe, the army in the w ... pe, the ministers are complementary to the west, Putin and Medvedev - like venal girls dancing and bending before the western rulers, driving our country deeper and deeper into the underground of the west. DOCLE? In our history there have already been many falls and ups. Again we will experience it?!? !!!!? How do these geeks come to power?
            2. Alex63
              Alex63 7 August 2012 12: 49 New
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              I’m not afraid to say openly that it’s time for Putin and Medvedev not to be judged, they should be put in the most closed cell to the most inveterate maniacs and pedophiles who rape, torture and kill our children, abuse them, and sell them into slavery in the USA (hiding behind adoption), and about the rest, YOU, MEN AND OFFICERS OF THE RUSSIAN ARMY AND NAVY (WOMEN - YOUR VOICE IN THIS SITE ARE NOT HEARED, BUT VERY ROAD), I CAN'T BE LONGER ABOUT! Somehow, these freaks from the Kremlin and the government must be cut down. If I am wrong, my address is: Father Sakhalin. Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk. Sports travel 11a, apt. 33 .. My phone number is 26-74-98. I’m not afraid to say- “VIRGINS AND SHOULD WEST IN OUR COUNTRY IS NOT A PLACE. PUTIN AND BEARS ARE OUT OF THE COUNTRY. RUSSIAN OFFICERS WILL PAY FOR YOU MUST!”,
  2. volcano 4 August 2012 09: 02 New
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    Good article.
    Thought ..... thought ....... there is nothing to add.
    People know what they are writing about. all right
    1. Alex63
      Alex63 7 August 2012 09: 29 New
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      That's right, but you have to do something!
  3. ramzes1776 4 August 2012 09: 45 New
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    Now the cadets are trained, like at the institute. I’ve been unlearned and free before lunch. Neither the guards, nor the outfits in the dining room. We converted the barracks into cubicles. Future officers should feel at least in the shoes of a soldier at least in the 1st course. Otherwise, officers will not understand the soldiers and there will be no respect on the part of the soldiers, as in their time for “jackets”!
    1. beech
      beech 6 August 2012 09: 54 New
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      what, are there really no guards or outfits ??? go nuts !!! Look, in the Nizhny Novgorod Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, all 5 courses live on the territory of the academy, they release current to the boutiques, and that is not always the case, it depends on the duty officer !!
    2. Alex63
      Alex63 9 August 2012 02: 14 New
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      And what would you like if the furniture maker commands the defense of the country. To go nuts !!! This is the same as putting a former prostitute in charge of leading the country's education, and a chronic syphilist in medicine. While Putin is in power, all this chaos will continue in the country. Until we pick it up, we will slide into the abyss. For him, 9 grams have long been cast. Just waiting in the wings.
  4. Colonel 4 August 2012 09: 50 New
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    Yes, do not decrease, do not add. And a small example, a little off topic, but still. Recently, in one of the divisions of the Strategic Missile Forces completed the installation of new equipment. Where and what kind of equipment is not important. After that, the crafts (almost all reserve officers) caught two lieutenants and suggested: “Guys, let's go, we will show you and tell you how it works.” The equipment is new, there are many nuances. To which the lieutenants replied: "Well, you, we need this to hell." When the fishing told me this (in the evening), he could not calm down. He didn’t fit such a passage in his head, so did mine.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 4 August 2012 11: 50 New
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      Duc "new look", however laughing
    2. mehanik27 5 August 2012 11: 13 New
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      Well, in general, now almost everywhere in the armada, so ... I really could have been a lieutenant to answer these citizens as well, only the motivation would be different, for I would have already known what they put or would put together with them and already figured it out would be in everything ...
  5. Geton
    Geton 4 August 2012 09: 51 New
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    Quote: Delink
    Why did our stools begin reform?
    . Taburetkins only follow the instructions of those who appointed them.
  6. Archer
    Archer 4 August 2012 09: 55 New
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    Sadly, only unfortunately no articles will change anything. Since it is conceived and implemented at the highest level. And the President of the Russian Federation and his Prime Minister and Minister of Defense are only the tip of the iceberg. Behind them are really different people and these people are interested in trading the country, resources. It was very difficult and prestigious to enter the Academy of the Armed Forces in the 90s, and in the early 2000s, officers were asked to pass exams at the Academy, and even took in spite of the low entrance results
  7. Pinochet000
    Pinochet000 4 August 2012 10: 09 New
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    The article is just excellent, about which I myself thought almost one-on-one, + many thanks to the authors
  8. Larus
    Larus 4 August 2012 10: 11 New
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    The star is constantly showing ads from the Ministry of Defense that they need managers, economists and others who are promised a big income and all the conditions for their activities. They definitely do not need military men, who are taught at military universities, including and in civilian specialties.
  9. Pinochet000
    Pinochet000 4 August 2012 10: 40 New
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    It is strange that there are so few comments, because frames are the future of our aircraft, it is very important ..... or are they still sleeping on Saturday? True, our comments really do not change much, although it may at least be thoughtful. B ..... be tired already!
  10. Fox
    Fox 4 August 2012 10: 41 New
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    So there is the collapse of the entire education system, starting with the school.
    1. Shumer
      Shumer 5 August 2012 16: 38 New
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      Does the state need a competent, educated, capable of analysis and capable of independently drawing conclusions citizen? Or does he (the state) need a dumb, stupid performer?
  11. 53-Sciborskiy 4 August 2012 10: 46 New
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    Inspector General arrived at the military unit. I decided to spend the night in the barracks. I wanted to use the toilet at night. He sits on the toilet, and then the "grandfather" opens the window and crawls into the air of his own will.
    The general asks:
    - Where are you going?
    "Grandfather" felt his bald head in the dark:
    - Be quiet, salaga, otherwise you’ll scrub a point with a toothbrush before my demobilization!

    - What is the difference between an officer of the tsarist army and an officer of the Russian army?
    - The officer of the tsarist army was always shaved to the blue and slightly drunk. The officer of the Russian army is the opposite.
    1. antiaircrafter 4 August 2012 20: 18 New
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      Quote: 53-Sciborskiy
      “What is the difference between an officer of the tsarist army and an officer of the Russian army?” “An officer of the tsarist army was always shaven and slightly drunk until blue. The officer of the Russian army is the opposite.

      An officer in the tsarist army knew everything from Bach to Feuerbach, an officer in Russia - from Edita Piekha to tdi, you ... ..
      1. 53-Sciborskiy 4 August 2012 23: 26 New
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        Here, and I about the same, culture is not enough.
      2. Charon
        Charon 5 August 2012 22: 37 New
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        This is about the intellectuals a joke. And he is as old as Edita Piekhe.
  12. NICK
    NICK 4 August 2012 11: 27 New
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    Almost all commentators moan about the horrors that await our sun, but maybe try to do something specific? For example, get together in large numbers and PUBLICALLY declare your dissatisfaction? Or is it an orange-swamp fifth column for you? NOT your method? Is it easier and safer to express your opinion in private (pluses are thrown), Or how, are there only cardboard hares?
  13. s1н7т
    s1н7т 4 August 2012 11: 54 New
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    Damn, how sickening to see all this.
  14. runway 4 August 2012 12: 08 New
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    Unfortunately, we should not expect changes in the actions of our leaders from our proposals. Our leaders do not heed the numerous appeals of the leading institutions of our country, working for decades on the defense of the state.
    Maybe someone is embarrassed by the frequent “photo shoots” of our hand-guides against the background (and even inside!) Of military equipment. But as has long been noted by many people respected in military circles, they still do not imagine the Armed Forces of the country as a single organism, designed to perform SPECIFIC TASKS FOR A SPECIAL PERIOD.
    Hence all the throwing with a change in the organizational and staffing structure of command and control bodies, associations, formations and military units, a change in the rules for manning, a system for training military personnel, and the acquisition of foreign equipment .... And when the leaders don’t have an idea about the ultimate goal of the reforms, then the money spent on defense, will be thrown to the wind.
    Recognizing themselves as the wisest, most worthy, alternatives to which are not found throughout the country, our leaders signed a sentence on all branches of our state, not only the Armed Forces.
  15. Vorchun 4 August 2012 12: 24 New
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    Surprisingly systematic - at first they left without “hardware” (equipment), and now without “brains” (frames).
  16. Farvil 4 August 2012 12: 33 New
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    Mediocre people who accidentally seized power grabbed onto it for death, and whatever they were toppled over, they destroy all dangerous directions, such as the army, education, and so on.
  17. spok
    spok 4 August 2012 13: 14 New
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    came to the unit a young lieutenant field of a military school doesn’t know how to shoot I asked
    -And how did you pass tests at the school?
    and he answers
    -Which offsets we only shot three times in five years ....
    THIS IS A SHOCK WAS FOR ME
    for five years THREE TIMES !!!
    WHAT PREPARATION WHAT DEFENSE ALL IN ANUS
    there were still officers who had undergone training under the USSR; they were sparing no money for their education.
    in short, the army is destroyed thanks to our government,
    and delirium from the screen about the construction of new samples of individual causes vomit.
    Destruction of other objects in schools of physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology, while complicating the existing technology for the use of electronics,
    will lead to the impossibility of its competent exploitation by soldiers,
    and you yourself understand what this can lead to in conditions of hostilities.
    1. mehanik27 5 August 2012 11: 16 New
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      I’ll fix it a bit - at universities already under the RF Armed Forces, they were also preparing well before the reform ... well, or at least until 2005-2007
    2. lelikas 5 August 2012 20: 46 New
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      When I studied at the School of Technicians - they shot twice - AK and PM, of course, shooting in the Navy is not so important, but nonetheless.
      For two years my friend, a signalman, had never held a machine gun in his hands - even on an oath. 91-93gg.
      The mass of the people after schools still have to retrain either on a new VUS or on other equipment.
  18. Gazprom
    Gazprom 4 August 2012 13: 57 New
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    oh, oh, what a bad taburekin that made all these little crooks.
    Tired of this cry.
    You need to drive, take pros who want to serve and fight, and drive the rest, but it’s better to plant, if there is anything. They said about Gromov, but I have a neighbor in the country, I was rebuilt, a modest, provincial "home front worker", three-story mansions ,,,

    Everything in our unit was takal, and that’s it.
    The lieutenant came, he wiped himself a little, and if the “elders” allow it, the autobat is also a feeding trough, after a year a cat that is already full, with a belly, will not pull up 3 times. And anyone who served in the ordinary, non-elite can say this.
    Not everything is true in the reforms, but the fact that these obese people had to be pressed is a fact.
    The people feed them, and if war happened, then in general happiness, how much can be written off!
    It’s like with the military-industrial complex, which squeezed out the loot from the budget, and it’s nothing good, until I realized that they’ll just buy over the hill, and then they moved

    ready for the minuses, go ahead
    1. ramzes1776 4 August 2012 14: 43 New
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      You might think that it’s better now. Also, many with the “mamons” are chasing and stealing many times more. Not only the military, but the civilians (in the past, many of them were military) in all kinds of Slavs, Rosoboronzakaz, St. Petersburg companies in the field of autosorting, etc. . etc.
      1. Gazprom
        Gazprom 4 August 2012 15: 16 New
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        the same ducks, only in profile.
        all this is unpleasant
      2. mehanik27 5 August 2012 11: 18 New
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        Yeah .. what’s the matter with all the bosses in Slavyanka, but you’ll find a locksmith)))
    2. mehanik27 5 August 2012 11: 17 New
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      yes it was necessary to do, no one disputes ... that they could gradually reform the rear, and not all at once in a single fell swoop.
  19. ShturmKGB 4 August 2012 14: 04 New
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    it’s gloomy like that ... I think everything is not so bad ...
  20. Waroc 4 August 2012 14: 42 New
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    Quote: Gazprom
    It’s necessary to drive, take pros who want to serve and fight, and drive the rest, but it’s better to plant, if there is anything


    And where are you going to take these pros?
    1. Gazprom
      Gazprom 4 August 2012 15: 20 New
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      Well, not from the office on the Arbat.
      The country has constant conflicts, hot spots, special operations, etc., there is combat experience. And there are people.
      3-4 generals are more expensive than a dozen fighters, the guys take a slide for their money, and these people are fattening, and like a stool for their scruff, the stuffing of custom statues of offended military begins (not about this article recourse )
      It’s time to dissolve this nest for a long time, only the main thing is the mind.
      1. 11Goor11
        11Goor11 4 August 2012 23: 27 New
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        Gazprom, write more often. Unfortunately, I can only filter different stuffing by economics and production.
  21. Opertak
    Opertak 4 August 2012 15: 18 New
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    1. Modern reformers have forgotten history. In 1700, the idiot's dream came true - Peter the Great created an army that was trained foreign I'm dressed in foreign uniforms, armed to foreign weapons and ... fucked up the Swedes! Shamefully and unconditionally - Peter shamefully fled like the last pops. And then for the construction of a new, really Russian our great commanders - A.D. Menshikov, B.P. Sheremetev, M.M. Golitsyn, F.M. Apraksin took over the army. They created that army, which went down in history as a phenomenon of a "non-embarrassing" army. And these traditions laid down by them were kept both in the tsarist army and in the Soviet one.

    2. The American officer training system, which our current reformers are copying, is primarily aimed not at training professionals, but at selecting soldiers dedicated to the regime. The unwritten motto of the US military academies: There is no place for democracy at the tip of the bayonet. I know for sure (I talked with graduates) that for admission to the military academy in Annapolis, where the elite of the US Armed Forces is trained, professional knowledge is not important, but recommendations are needed - either personally by the president or two US senators. Have you heard that one of the top officials in Russia recommended officers for admission to the academy?
  22. zombies
    zombies 4 August 2012 16: 00 New
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    The author idealizes the Soviet system of military education, but it is not at all perfect !!! Yes, it is possible that military schools trained highly qualified specialists in their higher education institutions, but an officer who is entrusted with the lives of many people, and a specialist, a graduate of a military school who wears officer uniform, but at the same time did not serve in the army, these are somewhat different things !!! And this is not to mention the absence of any selection, the elimination of the worst, the result is a deterioration in the quality of the command staff, and the appearance of officers, like fire-fearing war and doing anything other than military service ...
    1. Gregazov 4 August 2012 23: 23 New
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      And what rank himself, excuse me? During his studies (5 years of engineering school), he practiced and trained as an ordinary soldier, commander of a squad, platoon commander, electronic equipment adjuster, electronic equipment adjuster, onboard REO technician, service group leader, routine maintenance team leader, PNK regiment engineer. At the end of the school, he performed the duties of a test engineer in various positions. He had only gratitude and not a single penalty on the merits.
  23. andrey903
    andrey903 4 August 2012 18: 20 New
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    Military schools should be close to training grounds and airfields to have more practice. Cadets after studying in Moscow by any means try to stay
  24. Yemelya
    Yemelya 4 August 2012 18: 35 New
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    I always believed that a candidate for officer should serve in the military, because he would become an officer a year or two later than if he hadn’t served, the defense would not suffer much, and those who were not ready to serve might change their minds during an emergency. And besides, it will be possible to find out if the commander will turn out to be a cadet by analyzing his behavior in a military team.
    1. ramzes1776 4 August 2012 20: 04 New
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      And why the commander should turn out of the cadet. In addition to the command, there are also engineering specialties, where the emphasis is not on command training. And why should an officer pass an urgent? 5 years of a military school (not an institute) was enough for me to learn and understand the basic basics. In the school, unlike the troops, there was a charter. Where I served fighters, nobody really bothered. By the way, troop soldiers were fed better than us as cadets.
      1. Yemelya
        Yemelya 4 August 2012 21: 25 New
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        The officer, in my opinion, should be able to take command if necessary, even if this is not part of his direct duties. And such a need may arise even in peacetime (emergency, fire, etc.), not to mention the military. The officer rank should reflect a person’s ability to command, i.e. make decisions based on the current situation. To understand whether a person can take on the role of a leader is possible only by observing him in a team. If the officer cannot fulfill the role of commander, this will be done for him by the junior in rank. In a critical situation. Watching the young officers who came to the unit, he often noticed in their eyes the insecurity in dealing with the soldiers, which some tried to suppress with arrogance and "bulling", others went into familiarity, others simply did not know what to do. If a bomb fell on a part, for example, and panic and confusion began, yesterday’s cadets would not be able to restore order. And once again, all conscripts almost burst out laughing when the unit commander brought the officers to the parade ground for training on drill-down - it was a circus - cows on ice. Conscripts also fired better, even those who did not hold weapons before the army.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 4 August 2012 21: 39 New
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          And how many of these “cows on ice” drove you in the tail and mane in a couple of months?
          Your unit simply had an unprofessional command, which did not do anything for the quick adaptation of young officers
          1. Yemelya
            Yemelya 4 August 2012 21: 56 New
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            Driving is not a tricky business, commanding is more complicated, authority along with epaulets is not awarded. And the lieutenants who served for several years considered the soldiers to be shit, rude, rude and threatened with reprisal, especially if they went with their girlfriend. And in terms of "tail and mane" fantasy was very limited - mostly forced to dig flower beds at night after rain. Ponte was not only those who had military awards.
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 4 August 2012 22: 26 New
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              There are no lieutenants who served several years. Now is the year before starley.
              And tell me, please, is the part located along the territory of which officers and girls are marching around.
              1. Yemelya
                Yemelya 4 August 2012 22: 46 New
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                by lieutenants, I meant the younger of. composition in general, and with the girls and wives they freely moved around the military camp. There was no crime in the town, cars weren’t stolen, and it was possible to leave the carriage near the entrance, because at the checkpoint at the entrance to the town there were soldiers on duty, who tried to humiliate the dairy flyers in every possible way when their noble demanded a pass.
                1. DIMS
                  DIMS 4 August 2012 22: 56 New
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                  About the absence of crime in military camps you don’t hang noodles on my ears, I lived in them from birth

                  which the dodgy flyers tried to humiliate in every possible way, when their nobility demanded a pass.


                  That's right, soldiers who do not know the officers of their units in the face need to be taught. Rather, those who know, but who are puffing with awareness, the power over officers has fallen on them.
                  1. Yemelya
                    Yemelya 4 August 2012 23: 19 New
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                    Apparently, you did not live in all the towns of our vast Motherland. The car (which, as I understand it, is the highest value in the life of the fly), it was impossible to steal left on the street, because upon leaving, it was necessary to present a pass with a photo. If the commandant found out that I did not check the pass from my CD (!), I would get a reprimand. About “knowing in person” is from the internal service charter. Only officers with combat experience presented passes without questions. most of the art. officers and a certain number of summer, usually competent specialists in their fields, who did not have to prove that they were actually not 4mo What is the power at the checkpoint? - present a pass and go, so these 4 scammers considered presenting documents below their dignity.
                    1. DIMS
                      DIMS 4 August 2012 23: 34 New
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                      Rebuke? And in our school from the outfit on the checkpoint only sent to the lip. Yes, you just had a resort. Power? Even some. We had some that were tyranting civilian teachers for lack of a pass.
                      Did you say anything about officers with combat experience? I have never presented a pass for the entire service. Although in our regiment at the checkpoint they stood up with weapons, the platoon commander was on duty, and near the gate there was a cloaked tower, on which stood an uncle with a machine gun. They knew in person.
                      By the way, I lived in seven military camps.
                      1. Yemelya
                        Yemelya 4 August 2012 23: 50 New
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                        I think that in Russia there are more than seven military camps. A reprimand means that after dressing up in a company, it is better not to return at all, but to hit the race or open the veins. The order of the garrison commander - to skip only upon presentation of documents - no thoughts of the type "I know this." As for the checkpoint of the regiment - I repeat, the internal service charter is valid there, allowing the passage of officers whom the controller knows in person.
                      2. DIMS
                        DIMS 4 August 2012 23: 55 New
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                        I know what a reprimand is for conscripts - a reason to laugh. By the way, as I understand it, at your checkpoint at the entrance to the residential area, the UVS did not act?
                      3. Yemelya
                        Yemelya 5 August 2012 00: 08 New
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                        The outfit is garrison, therefore, apparently, the relevant charter was in effect, although, oddly enough, it was not studied. And really it was possible to laugh at the reprimand - with the whole company, in the OZK, lying down. Do cadets “education through the team” do not practice?
            2. mehanik27 5 August 2012 11: 25 New
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              Yeah .. we have such decent and decent soldiers that everyone checks the passes))) and the duty officer at the checkpoint who was standing ???
        2. ramzes1776 4 August 2012 22: 30 New
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          And if they served an urgent term? Would they be different? Everything will depend on the person. If he is a goddamn person, then no urgency will help.
          1. Yemelya
            Yemelya 4 August 2012 22: 48 New
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            If a person has not shown leadership in the urgent, he does not have a place in command positions.
          2. DIMS
            DIMS 4 August 2012 22: 57 New
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            He simply believes that a military school is something like an institute or university.
            1. Yemelya
              Yemelya 4 August 2012 23: 27 New
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              So if they cannot learn there for 5 years, what are they doing there? If you don’t know how to shoot? If you can’t command (!!!) ?!

              I do not mean all, but most.
              1. DIMS
                DIMS 4 August 2012 23: 59 New
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                Dear, and you do not confuse personnel with two-year-olds? Those have big problems with the drill due to little practice.
                1. Yemelya
                  Yemelya 5 August 2012 00: 17 New
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                  In my time there were no two-year-olds. And what, in 2 years you can’t learn?
                  1. DIMS
                    DIMS 5 August 2012 00: 36 New
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                    Dear, the training of reserve officers in the military departments of civilian universities and call them to active military service in the event of a shortage of personnel began before the Great Patriotic War. Have you served before?
                    You can learn in 2 years, but do they have time for this?
  • sazhka0
    sazhka0 4 August 2012 19: 11 New
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    Wow. How many New People. Hooked however .. Very glad.
  • DIMS
    DIMS 4 August 2012 20: 46 New
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    the selection system for candidates for military schools was destroyed due to the lack of recruitment of cadets for two years. We are not talking about interrupted military dynasties, this damage to the system of training Russian officers is unlikely to be restored even for decades.


    Everything is much worse. two happy years will soon come when two-year-olds will command all platoons and part of the company. With all due respect to them, they are not able to lead the overwhelming majority — they haven’t passed the military schools, where for cadets for five years they’ve been shown “1000 and one way for .. a soldier” using their own example.

    And in these two years we will have a surge of unstable, injuries and other bad things. Well, Medvedev and Taburetkin do not understand the army realities, and their immediate subordinates with general shoulder straps did not have the courage to keep these effective ones from stupid things.
    1. Aleksey43 4 August 2012 21: 15 New
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      DIMS, I agree with you. The majority of officers' life to the homeland, honor to no one "plan has gone to the unknown plan. There is hope for that small percentage of REAL OFFICERS, but I feel sorry for them, because de..mo (general) will simply eat them may choke. Give them a god of hardness and wish them good luck.
      1. DIMS
        DIMS 4 August 2012 21: 42 New
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        You know, in 1998, when the money allowance was delayed for half a year, not a single officer left our regiment. This is not so about the majority.
        1. Aleksey43 4 August 2012 22: 15 New
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          I would like to be indirect (very). But the fact that no one quit doesn’t mean anything yet. These are people of the sourdough of the 80s and 90s. After the 2000s, the people didn’t go the same way as the 80s and 90s. Maybe I'm wrong. This is my opinion. And I want to be wrong ...
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 4 August 2012 22: 31 New
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            Young, too, in their absolute majority, are normal. Maybe, of course, I only came across such ones.
  • aleksej
    aleksej 4 August 2012 22: 26 New
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    khana country
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 4 August 2012 22: 44 New
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      Not a khan. Khrushchev also cut the army alive. Recovered.
  • topwar.ruk-d
    topwar.ruk-d 4 August 2012 23: 21 New
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    It seems to me that the Soviet military system, including education, was "imprisoned" under the classical war like the First or Second World Wars plus nuclear weapons. Now Russia does not have such threats. Therefore, the reform of military education and the army as a whole is necessary. Serdyukov most likely right
    1. Colonel 5 August 2012 06: 44 New
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      The current reform is sharpening the Armed Forces for a short-term conflict. They will not be able to withstand prolonged combat stress. Outsourcing, however. Serdyukov and the company are wrong.
    2. Gregazov 5 August 2012 13: 51 New
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      Try to disperse 100 brigades throughout the country and estimate the density of the armed forces per square kilometer of territory. This is what they should be armed with and on which vehicles to seat?
    3. smel 7 August 2012 06: 23 New
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      It’s interesting, and who assessed the threats to Russia before carrying out this reform? But what kind of theater of operations are our armed forces able to withstand a potential enemy? Or at least in what environment? But right or wrong - time will tell. It will show at the cost of the lives of Russian guys, the deprivations of all (except the so-called elite) people. They will reward them again, put up monuments, create a walk of fame. But the culprits, as is customary with us, again they will not answer for anything
  • Pinochet000
    Pinochet000 4 August 2012 23: 25 New
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    I think that the degradation of the army began long before the collapse of the USSR, after WWII veterans left the armed forces, around the beginning of the 70s. Of course, the vast majority of officers at that time were true patriots of their homeland, but all sons of the so-called "nomenclature" began to occupy key posts in the armed forces in order to understand how this happened, you need to read articles by Sergey Isakov in the journal "Soldier of Fortune" ("SU" No. 11,12 for 2008) the article is called “Initiative Price” and (SU # 2 for 2009) “The Decay Theory” (it is on the net)
    Quote: "A system based on authoritarian power and the principle of one-man management, when used for other purposes, over time, will degrade, and this process consists of:
    1) in a perversion of the principles of personnel selection;
    2) to simplify the visual manifestations of functioning and the predominance of the exponential, ceremonial side in them;
    3) in the actual change of priorities and goals for the achievement of which this system was created initially. "

    Just after the war, I thought for a long time why we were stepping on the same rake all the time until I read these articles, then I understood everything.
    By the way, the Germans began to take into account the first at a general system level even in the Reichver, then in the Wehrmacht, I think now these IDFs are used by the IDF and the US Army, and of course the Bundeswehr, maybe someone else
    Just the requirements for the command staff in wartime and peacetime are DIFFERENT! Just read the articles to anyone interested.
    1. ZAVET
      ZAVET 5 August 2012 20: 36 New
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      Thanks for the link to the article.
      I read the memoirs of Hans Ulrich Rudel (he was still a smoker, than he didn’t differ in modesty, though not without reason)), and so he repeatedly emphasizes in his memoirs that the commands of the higher leadership of the Wehrmacht were usually not executed due to their obsolescence. The commanders on the spot themselves decided what to do based on the tactical situation. That was the norm.
      But for the pilots, the main task at the sorties was “free hunting”, when the pilot himself chose his goals and the corresponding weapons before the sortie.

      I THINK THE SPECIFIED ARTICLES ABOUT THE GERMAN SYSTEM OF TRAINING MILITARY SERVICE MUST BE PRINTED ON THE SITE.
      1. DIMS
        DIMS 5 August 2012 20: 44 New
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        But for the pilots, the main task at the sorties was “free hunting”, when the pilot himself chose his goals and the corresponding weapons before the sortie.


        Cool. On the side, the cover of ground troops, due to personal victories, is a much more important thing ...
        You know, it seems to me more and more that you absolutely do not understand the subject of discussion.
        1. ZAVET
          ZAVET 5 August 2012 21: 23 New
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          Dunce, Hans Ulrich Rudel - attack aircraft. He only did what he supported the ground troops))). However, based on the tactical situation, he himself determined the priority objectives, weapons for their destruction, the area of ​​their location.
          By the way, this approach made him the best WWII pilot.
          500 tanks are not horseradish.
          The tactics of free hunting were adopted from the Germans only at the very end of the war.

          Moreover, the tactical superiority of the Germans, as the embodiment of the principle of initiative in the Second World War, in my opinion is foolish to challenge.
          1. ZAVET
            ZAVET 5 August 2012 21: 43 New
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            PS If Rudel's squadron (like any German) would literally carry out the orders of a higher command, then, for example, most flights were to areas where there were no longer enemy troops, that is
            WOULD TAKE PLACE IN THE NAVIGATED NONSENSE.
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 5 August 2012 21: 51 New
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              Dear, they worked to support troops according to air reconnaissance (the goals were determined by the infamous "frame" FW-189) or to call the combined arms units
              Well, or bombed that with all desire could not be lost, for example, warehouses, railway junctions or bridges.

              The Germans had problems with both fuel and air supremacy. In this case, the option "just fly, maybe we'll find" was painfully imposed.
            2. Gregazov 5 August 2012 21: 55 New
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              The Germans had good intelligence and your thesis needs to be argued. At the same time, I can add that the right to choose: to die, performing a task, or to stay alive, having chosen a different goal, was not only among German officers, but also among officers, such as the British fleet, etc. About the Russian military, the whole world knows that "RUSSIANS DO NOT GIVE UP" and carry out the order at the cost of their lives "for their own."
          2. DIMS
            DIMS 5 August 2012 21: 45 New
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            Dunce, Hans Ulrich Rudel - attack aircraft. He only did what he supported the ground troops))). However, based on the tactical situation, he himself determined the priority objectives, weapons for their destruction, the area of ​​their location.


            Not only that, he was also one-legged after the war skiing. But this does not apply to the topic.
            So you called me “dunce” and you yourself can’t even imagine what “free hunting” is for dive bombers and attack aircraft pilots.
            Their tactics included either missions to destroy specific objects, or to support specific combined arms units. "Free hunting" was used only in the absence of problems with the infantry and with complete dominance in the air. This is when they were solitary cars and columns with refugees in the summer of 1941 were shot on the roads.
            Well, then only all sorts of Rudels were having fun with it. For the sake of propaganda, a warring country needs heroes. The rest simply plowed on ground troops.

            500 tanks are not horseradish.


            According to Rudel and German propaganda. There is no objective evidence to support this.


            The tactics of free hunting were adopted from the Germans only at the very end of the war.


            In your version, that is, an independent choice of purpose with the support of specific units from the very beginning of the war. But we have already discussed that you do not understand the meaning of this expression.
          3. Gregazov 5 August 2012 21: 50 New
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            The tactics of free hunting were widely known. It was used by the French pilots of the Normandy. However, its implementation required well-trained pilots and a reserve of aircraft. Neither one nor the other in the Red Army was practically until the end of the war. Only after gaining air superiority by the end of the war were we able to afford this tactic.
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 5 August 2012 22: 00 New
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              Why, Pokryshkin was allowed this much earlier. Under this task, he also saved his hanging tank, like the apple of an eye. But there were few such talents. Most simply and honestly plowed. Both ours and the Germans.
        2. Gregazov 5 August 2012 21: 45 New
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          Dims, I completely agree with you
          1. ZAVET
            ZAVET 5 August 2012 22: 06 New
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            Do not engage in semantics.
            "Pretend to be a fool" is a good technique, but primitive.
            Once again - GERMAN PARTS ARE GUIDED BY THE MEANING OF ORDERS, and not their verbatim content, which, incidentally, is reflected in the article "Price of Initiative",
            since all orders are outdated when they reach subordinates.
            Quote: ZAVET
            PS If Rudel's squadron (like any German) would literally carry out the orders of a higher command, then, for example, most flights were to areas where there were no longer enemy troops, that is
            WOULD TAKE PLACE IN THE NAVIGATED NONSENSE.

            That is, German field officers themselves determined what to do in accordance with the plan of the command, and did not fly to bomb the non-existent enemy.
            During the war, the Red Army became more and more decisive and able to take the initiative of the people, in German, on the contrary, thoughtless despotism grew.

            Although it is possible for you, these are really quite complicated things.
            You are not the case of these "stupid and lazy" officials of peacetime?
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 5 August 2012 22: 16 New
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              Dear, the army, especially such as the German one, with its centuries-old cult of discipline, is not the gang of Old Man Makhno, where everyone sets his own task, fulfills himself and reports to himself. This is a machine, the main characteristic of which is the interaction between different branches and types of troops. No one is fighting alone, the action of all subordinated to a single goal. And that is precisely why the excessive initiative of one is sometimes simply dangerous for others.
              1. ZAVET
                ZAVET 5 August 2012 22: 52 New
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                I rate your post as chatter.
                But I can not resist. Gang Makhno very famously cracked down on the officers of the White Guard. The "gang" has actually become a state with all management functions and currency. And a very combat-ready army)
                1. DIMS
                  DIMS 5 August 2012 22: 58 New
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                  You can chat something smart. And you, I’m sorry, are ruining the rubbish.

                  The fighting capacity of the Makhno gang perfectly characterizes the level of desertion after having to fight really against the Reds. in the end, 78 people remained under his command. Out of 120 thousand. Most of the others took the initiative and fled.
  • Aleksey43 4 August 2012 23: 48 New
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    Well, I don’t know men. The dumber the authorities, the higher the rank ...
    1. Pinochet000
      Pinochet000 5 August 2012 00: 13 New
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      Quote: Aleksey43
      Well, I don’t know men. The dumber the bosses, the higher the rank ..
      Namely, we need "stupid and executive", then there is no threat ... this is the Achilles heel of any system based on the principle of one-man management: whether it be religious, military or state. What ultimately turns out of this, history has clearly shown on the example of the Roman Catholic Church, which is also an authoritarian system acting on the principle of one-man management. Created to bear the Christian commandments in European society, by the Middle Ages this system degraded to the iniquities of the inquisition and the wholesale absolution by selling indulgences. For the military system, another war puts everything in its place. Only ..... there will be blood and a lot.
      1. Aleksey43 5 August 2012 00: 46 New
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        I completely agree. Only here it is insulting and sorry for people. And then we wonder why everything is so bad with us ...
      2. Gregazov 5 August 2012 21: 57 New
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        Roman Catholics - a sect breakaway from Orthodoxy. Estimating the principle of unity of command based on the experience of sectarians is a very thankless task.
  • killganoff 5 August 2012 10: 15 New
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    If the country's leadership was interested in a really strong army as a whole and literacy among the officer corps, then it would not have carried out such destructive reforms. There is pure diversion, the targeted destruction of the defense capabilities of the homeland. And indeed the entire education system is aimed at the speedy destruction of the nation’s identity. With this approach, thoughtless slaves are brought up. Slaves on this earth are more necessary than wise generals.
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 5 August 2012 10: 45 New
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      Yes, there is no diversion. Stupid cost optimization carried out by those who do not understand anything in the subject of reforms, but at the same time are good at counting money.
      1. Gregazov 5 August 2012 22: 00 New
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        I’ll add a little. They do not know how to count money. Otherwise, they would have considered the money for the restoration of the Armed Forces.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 5 August 2012 22: 51 New
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          But at the moment, costs are clearly reduced.
          1. mehanik27 6 August 2012 00: 55 New
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            not ... well, but ... where you spent the money, you provided yourself .. now you need to show the appearance of optimization.
  • sd34rwesgf
    sd34rwesgf 5 August 2012 12: 09 New
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    The authorities of our country have done a lot, but this is already too much.
    I generally accidentally found him http://tini.cc/1jt
    Here is information about each of us, for example: relatives, friends, correspondence from social networks.
    And most importantly, it is accessible to everyone, I was really scared at first - you never know what moron there will climb
    Well, the truth is that you can delete all
  • smel 7 August 2012 06: 12 New
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    I want to remind you that Taburetkin does not act at his own peril and risk, but under the control of the head of state. Yes, and again left at the post of the Ministry of Defense. That means the head is satisfied with his work. And whining in articles and comments is a waste of time, energy and emotions.