When the Pantsir ZRPK was in the unskilled hands of the SAA, and the Abrams tanks were in the hands of the Saudis: problems of the arms market


Saudi troops throw expensive American Tanks at the first shots of the Hussites, and the Syrians are not able to master the armor delivered by Russia. What problems are facing the supply of modern and high-tech military equipment?


For decades, major manufacturers weaponsFirst of all, the USA and Russia, as well as some European countries, developed their military technologies and tried to make any types of weapons more and more perfect. But parallel to this process, the complexity of the equipment in operation and, naturally, its cost increased.

One of the main problems faced by high-tech weapons in the modern arms market is the mismatch between the cost and duration (or conditions) of operation. A typical example is that the Saudis acquire expensive American military equipment and immediately throw it into a local armed conflict in Yemen, where the militia - Husits ​​in pickups and with hand grenade launchers confront the perfectly armed Saudi forces.

For example, the M1A2 Abrams is fairly fairly considered one of the best main battle tanks in the modern world. But the Hussites safely beat him out of the Towsan-1 ATGM of Iranian production. Crews, if they are lucky to survive, throw expensive equipment on the battlefield. But gloating over the negligence of the closest American allies in the Middle East is not worth it, because the Syrian comrades are not so far away from them.


Husites knocked out Abrams tank


Take, for example, history with the anti-aircraft missile and cannon system "Shell" in the service of air defense of Syria, which reveals the following problem - the lack of proper training of personnel and the necessary infrastructure support. In Syria, the ZRPKs are on guard of the Russian Khmeimim air base and, it must be said, have shown their best side, repelling a large number of attacks by militants. But those ZRPKs that fell into the possession of the air defense forces of the Syrian Arab Republic seemed to be replaced: the Syrians regularly miss Israeli attacks on their territory. Moreover, the Israelis succeeded in destroying at least two Syrian Shells.

In fact, such miscalculations of Syrian air defense are not accidental. After all, it is not enough to install modern anti-aircraft missile systems, it is still necessary to ensure that they work effectively, and in the context of organizing Syrian air defense it is extremely difficult to do this.

Firstly, the Syrian army lacks modern radar systems that must transmit air defense systems. Secondly, the exact same situation is observed with modern automated control systems - their absence contributes to complete chaos during the operation of air defense. Thirdly, the personnel of the Syrian air defense are poorly trained, they are almost not trained to work with modern technology, and have a low level of discipline.

So there is a situation where the presence in the Syrian army's (SAA) armament of modern SAM shells is useless, and even harmful for Russia. After all, every failure of the Syrian air defense forces casts a shadow on Russian-made weapons: articles on the minuses of the Pantsir air defense system and their uselessness in front of the Israeli immediately appear in the world press aviation etc. Caught in inept hands, even the most effective weapon can lose its effectiveness.

Thus, it is not enough to acquire expensive and high-tech weapons, it is also necessary to create the infrastructure to support its activities, as well as to properly train personnel, both professionally and motivationally.

However, those countries where everything, at first glance, is pretty good with both military infrastructure and training personnel, can also pose a lot of problems for arms suppliers. This is the third problem - the uncertainty in our own arms procurement strategy.

A typical example is India. Everyone remembers the story of the contract for the supply of Su-35. At first, New Delhi seemed to agree to purchase a Russian plane, but then they demanded to lower the price, and then they began to look for flaws, eventually abandoning its acquisition. The situation with FGFA cooperation (Su-57) was approximately the same.

The reason here is not only US pressure or economic considerations, but also because Indians still cannot decide whether they will remain in the role of buyers of foreign military equipment, or they will be able to produce modern weapons themselves. Of course, the military elite and industrial circles of India would like the latter, but are there any resources for this - primarily intellectual and technological?

What can be done in this whole situation? Of course, you can’t refuse to export high-tech weapons - this is lively and big money. But thinking about who and what to sell is also necessary, otherwise the reputational costs and subsequent financial losses may even exceed the profit from the sale of weapons. An important component is comprehensive contracts with personnel training and retraining by specialists.
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  1. alone 4 May 2020 13: 04 New
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    Well, in the world I have not yet met such a tank that it was impossible to destroy ...
    And about the "Shell", I’m not special in the air defense .. The forum has specialists in air defense and it will be very nice to read their objective comments about problems
    1. Civil 4 May 2020 13: 31 New
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      There were problems with the Arabs from the very beginning, remember how many equipment the Egyptians threw ... or how our crews had to be put into tanks in Syria in the 80s. Husits ​​are more likely an exception to the rule.
      1. Graz 4 May 2020 14: 11 New
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        what an exception, in most cases they destroy a perfectly functional captured Saudi equipment, because they don’t know how to control it, so they can’t use any sophisticated smart weapons
        1. Alexey RA 4 May 2020 16: 33 New
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          Quote: Graz
          what an exception, in most cases they destroy a perfectly functional captured Saudi equipment, because they don’t know how to control it, so they can’t use any sophisticated smart weapons

          The point is not inability. The same "Husits" actively use such a high-tech as UAVs, OTR and coastal SCRC. For under the guise of "Hussites" fighting, including the cadre troops of Yemen.
          The fact is that the tank on its own useless - it needs fuel, ammunition and repairs with spare parts. Do the “Husits" have rear infrastructure, sharpened by "Abrams"? No. And their northern friends also do not.
          1. venik 4 May 2020 22: 48 New
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            Quote: Alexey RA
            Do the “Husits" have rear infrastructure, sharpened by "Abrams"? No. And their northern friends also do not.

            ========
            In principle - everything is correct! good drinks But I just do not understand WHY Yemen’s northern neighbors have NO infrastructure "sharpened by" abrams ""? Do the Saudis have no infrastructure to operate the tanks that they have in service ??? belay
            1. Alexey RA 5 May 2020 01: 47 New
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              Quote: venik
              But I just do not understand WHY Yemen’s northern neighbors have NO infrastructure "sharpened by" abrams ""?

              My inaccuracy. sad
              I mean northeast friendswhose products by chance often get to the Hussites. North wind in the Middle East. smile
          2. Cyril G ... Today, 07: 59 New
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            Add self-made air defense systems that hit targets at all altitudes.
      2. Unmer 5 May 2020 14: 34 New
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        In something I agree. And why do not give Jewelins APU? Ukrainians are not Arabs ... or is the dill officer so corrupt that they will quickly push them to Donetsk? The end of the reputation of the Armed Forces and mattresses is a slap in the face.
        1. Narak-zempo 8 May 2020 11: 32 New
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          Quote: Unmer
          or the dill officer is so corrupt that it will quickly push them to Donetsk

          Not really.
          I've been wanting to buy a pair of Eagles for a long time, it’s useful on the farm, but nobody sells request
      3. Narak-zempo 8 May 2020 11: 27 New
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        Yes, along the way nothing more complicated than a horse / camel, a saber and a flintlock can not be trusted. How their "God-chosen" thrashed, despite the constant pumping of the latest Soviet weapons. Although, it seems, both of them are Semites, only Jews are carriers of European culture, and Arabs are Asian, and Europe always beats Asia.
    2. Nikolaevich I 4 May 2020 13: 36 New
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      Quote: lonely
      Well, in the world I have not yet met such a tank that it was impossible to destroy ...

      I think that "in the world" there is no such air defense system that cannot be destroyed ...
    3. venik 4 May 2020 22: 34 New
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      Quote: lonely
      Well, in the world I have not yet met such a tank that it was impossible to destroy ...
      And about the "Shell", I'm not special in air defense.

      =======
      Well, you must bespecialist"according to air defense, that there are no" invulnerable "and" unflattering "air defense systems in the world? The author has not even mentioned the Patriot air defense system! The Israelis using his early modifications quite successfully shot down the Saddam Skuds, and the same Saudis - spoiled the missile attack on OWN position, as a result of which they were safely and "wacked" .....
      Exactly the same applies to ANY other weapon systems! The meaning of the article is different - as one of our laboratory technicians said: "technique in the hands of a savage - a piece of iron! ", and therefore if you are selling something" high-tech "- see WHO to avoid reputational losses!
      1. bobwings 6 May 2020 12: 45 New
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        Not the Israelis, but the American batteries used in January 91 in Israel. At that time, the Patriot was not yet armed with the Tsahal.
        Patriots successfully cope with the Scuds in Saudi Arabia, but they have a problem with low-flying cruise missiles.
        1. venik 6 May 2020 13: 47 New
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          Quote: bobwings
          Patriots successfully cope with the Scuds in Saudi Arabia, but they have a problem with low-flying cruise missiles.

          ========
          Consonant! good But even if the antediluvian Scuds flew over the positions of the Saudi “Patriots”, it’s not a fact that the Saudis and take it off would have coped!
          There, by the way, such "precedents" were already there! Saudis - "smeared" "over black"!
        2. Cyril G ... Today, 08: 02 New
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          Quote: bobwings
          with the Scuds and in Saudi Arabia,


          With confirmation of the defeat of the ballistic truth is not very.
  2. Vasily 4 May 2020 13: 08 New
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    Well, it’s not that little is known about the fact that it’s not fighting technology that people are fighting, and even some understand it. But what the article is about is not entirely clear to me. Rather, it is completely not clear. I read it, spent the time, since there is enough of it now, and there’s nothing left, even a topic for near-thinking reflections.
  3. silberwolf88 4 May 2020 13: 17 New
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    the article is so-so ... a lot of all kinds of advertising inserts about the best Abrams in the world ... about stupidity and so on ... everyone has problems of preparation ... BUT this is not always the most important ... technology ... and here the Arabs are not the most powerful wars ...
    Syrians plus battle experience ... and courage ... the rest will come ... Calculations were taught in Russia at the Air Defense Academy ... they have many years of experience in training foreigners ... of the most diverse ... nothing ... they master everything and equipment and standards))
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Shavkat Kuvatov 6 May 2020 14: 32 New
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      In Soviet times, I remember that foreigners (directly by the teams for the supplied complex) were trained in Yangaj. And not at the Air Defense Academy.
      1. silberwolf88 6 May 2020 16: 26 New
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        everyone has their own experience (I mean Smolensk air defense of the Ground Forces) ... there is a huge history of training in Africa, Arabs, socialist camps and others ... and this is the story of more than one decade ... and of course ... for example, part of the Yemeni calculations was taught near Socotra ... instructors and advisers traveled to Cuba ... and put on the spot training courses ... well, many examples
    3. 2 Level Advisor 10 May 2020 19: 14 New
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      and Syrians are not Arabs by chance? At one time, they, too, were taught with the Egyptians .. there’s still little sense in fact .. with machine guns and RPGs, but something works, but not at all. Sophisticated technique, at best for the C grade
  4. Avior 4 May 2020 13: 17 New
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    In Syria, air defense missile defense systems are on guard of the Russian Khmeimim air base and, it must be said, have shown their best side, reflecting a large number of attacks by militants. But those ZRPKs that fell into the possession of the air defense forces of the Syrian Arab Republic seemed to be substituted: the Syrians regularly miss Israeli attacks on their territory.

    As if between attacks by militants and Israeli air strikes, there is a difference in the difficulty of repelling the attack.
    1. Graz 4 May 2020 14: 14 New
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      I doubt very much that your air force could overcome our many-layered air defense system, and at the same time you would work at least at your airfields with iskanders.
      1. mvg
        mvg 6 May 2020 19: 03 New
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        1982 We built, Israel bombed. Successfully.
        And according to the Iskander .. it’s far away for them to fly, I suggest, as usual, with caps, hats ..
  5. Same lech 4 May 2020 13: 19 New
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    A typical example is India. Everyone remembers the story of the contract for the supply of Su-35.

    The French fooled the Indians with the price of Raphael ... there now a political scandal has formed.
    And the Syrians need to be taught to fight in modern combat ... before you give them modern weapons, you need to teach them how to correctly use all the advantages of our weapons.
    I do not think that Israeli pilots are so invulnerable ... they just have not yet encountered an adversary of higher combat qualification.
    The Syrians lack insolence and arrogance, combined with mastery of combat.
    1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 13: 46 New
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      Where do we have “modern fights” to study ?!)))))
      1. Same lech 4 May 2020 14: 50 New
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        Where do we have “modern fights” to study ?!)))))

        The same Israeli flyers ... see how they attack the territory of Syria ... they are very inventive.
        1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 15: 05 New
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          The Syrians have an army so-so, for modern wars does not pull. With a stretch, you can look at the war 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. 5-9
          5-9 4 May 2020 17: 19 New
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          Enjoy relief and geography. But when the Turks of Su-24 Syrian shot down the hi-tech there, the STR (the ancient one) was scored / forced the Pilot to not pay attention to it from the jammer, and then, they were sadanuli from the ultimate distance of aim120 ..
          1. opus 4 May 2020 19: 13 New
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            Quote: 5-9
            they scored / forced the Pilot not to pay attention to her from the jammer, and then, they sadanuli from the limiting distance aim120 ..

            1. What is the jammer there?
            Radar SPO-15C "Birch" does not respond to AIM-9X Sidewinder, see p. 3
            LO-82UL "Poppy" ... it most likely was simply "painted"
            yes and
            Su-24M performed a flight at an altitude of 6000 meters, Turkish 16 sheikhs below, significantly, the "Mac" works only on the upper hemisphere
            2. not with the "limit", but with 17 km, since the 9X range is only 26 km (see paragraph 3)
            3.Not AIM 120, but AIM-9X Sidewinder. AIM 120 in 2017 American F / A-18 shot down the Syrian Su-22
            Threat. this is how the myths about Cooks, washed pants and layoffs in Romania are born
            1. 5-9
              5-9 4 May 2020 19: 17 New
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              It's about the Syrian shot down 24th recently, not ours.
              His 120m from 40 or 50 km was shot down ... Probably the longest range of the real defeat of the URV ..... If they don’t lie ...
              1. opus 4 May 2020 20: 35 New
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                Quote: 5-9
                It's about the Syrian shot down 24th recently, not ours.

                Quote: opus
                . AIM 120 in 2017 American F / A-18 shot down Syrian Su-22
                1. 5-9
                  5-9 5 May 2020 08: 49 New
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                  Also wrote about 50 km or what?
                  1. opus 5 May 2020 11: 59 New
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                    Quote: 5-9
                    Also wrote about 50 km or what?

                    1. simply other control systems (not any), except 22 did not bring down AIM -120 (never)

                    2. First Lt. Cdr. Michael Tremel was significantly higher than the SU; -22 (which worked on the ground) from an altitude of 22000 feet fired the AIM-9X Sidewinder and missed.
                    The distance was no more than 3-5 km, then, starting from nothing for several seconds, launched the AIM-120

                    The plane began to deviate to the right and down, and the Syrian pilot ejected and left the danger zone
                    , - he said.

                    Wanting to stay out of the trash field and parts of the plane, Tremel quickly turned left, he said, letting the ejection seat pass to the right of his wing.
                    WHAT 50 km and the maximum distance?
                    1. viktorR 5 May 2020 18: 02 New
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                      As I understand it, 5-9 meant the recent events under Idlib, when the Turks allegedly shot down 2 su-24s. But there was some kind of info mess. Someone wrote that they say 24-ki almost attacked Turkish aircraft :). I somehow forgot to understand that situation. It would not be bad if 5-9 somehow shared links there or something like that.
                      1. opus 5 May 2020 20: 38 New
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                        Quote: viktorR
                        As I understand it, 5-9 meant the recent events under Idlib, when the Turks allegedly shot down 2 su-24s.

                        aahhh.
                        1. Well, he wouldn’t "mean", but would specifically say
                        2. March 1, 2020 I was not here / here, but on another continent
                        3. The process of shooting down

                        not 50 km
                        - pilots are alive, even without injuries
                        The conclusion from paragraph 3 seems to be again not AMRAAM with its +/- 20kg warheads, but again AIM-9 with its 9 kg
                        Shl.
                        and the Turks will not spend 120 on a cheap su-24

                        Quote: viktorR
                        I somehow forgot to understand that situation.

                        yes everything is simple
                        read the turk

                        read the Syrians

                        = draw conclusions
                        Quote: viktorR
                        It would not be bad if 5-9 like that

                        It is unlikely
                      2. viktorR 6 May 2020 09: 20 New
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                        The conclusion from paragraph 3 seems to be again not AMRAAM with its +/- 20kg warheads, but again AIM-9 with its 9 kg

                        Clause 3 does not prove anything. The video shows only that the rocket flew into the air traffic control station, with a vehicle length of 24 meters, the pilots most likely did not even suffer from amraham. I am not saying that 5-9 is right, but yours, although more likely, cannot be categorical either.


                        yes everything is simple
                        read the turk
                        read the Syrians


                        And we don’t learn anything new from sabzh :)

                        I don’t want to get personal, but I’ll go :)
                        No offense, but you are so jealous of your innocence and so childishly offended when it is called into question. I understand everything, you are a wise gray-haired man who worked in secret KB / research institutes, and here someone on the Internet considers you to be wrong :). You must also be critical of yourself, and not think that you are always and in everything right.
                        Take this simpler, or you can sit in a puddle, as the professor recently did with terrorists from the ISIS branch, calling them rebels, and then up to a mustache * arguing that they are not terrorists :).
                      3. opus 6 May 2020 12: 40 New
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                        Quote: viktorR
                        but you are so jealous of your innocence and so childishly offended when it is called into question. I AM

                        not.
                        1.not jealously / just taught me to defend my point of view /
                        2.and definitely not offended. The wife will confirm.
                        3. And how many times I sat down in a puddle as a professor unknown to me. this is normal.
                        Quote: 5-9
                        , but about the fact that the Turks allegedly shot down from 50 km ..

                        Well, I seem to have proved that:
                        not from 50 km
                        not Turks
                        -and not AIM120
                        -and not Su-24
                2. 5-9
                  5-9 6 May 2020 08: 55 New
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                  I initially wrote not about the downing of something aim-120 there, but about the fact that the Turks allegedly shot down from 50 km ... If this is true, then this is the largest distance of combat downing in history
  • Rostislav Prokopenko 4 May 2020 16: 31 New
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    And the Syrians need to be taught to fight in modern combat ... before handing them modern weapons ...

    But everyone wants a magical WunderWaffle - he pressed a button, she flew, she found someone. If she’s her, then she missed it, the stranger - knocked down. If she didn’t find it, then she herself was eliminated, and even better, she neatly returned to the base and waits for the next button press by an uneducated fool.
  • Alexey RA 4 May 2020 16: 41 New
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    Quote: The same Lech
    And the Syrians need to be taught to fight in modern combat ... before you give them modern weapons, you need to teach them how to correctly use all the advantages of our weapons.

    And as a result we get again 1973 or 1982. Then there was also an air defense system, built according to Soviet principles and staffed with Soviet training. sad
    Plus, the PMSM, judging by the actions of the Syrian air defense, now Syria has virtually no air defense as a system. Otherwise, the same S-200 simply would not fire at a friendly target. And the “Carapace” would cover each other during reloading, in time receiving information about the goals that are being pursued by them.
    1. KCA
      KCA 4 May 2020 19: 47 New
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      Then remember the voyage of MIG-25R in 1973 over Israel, which stopped Israel’s use of nuclear weapons against Egypt, as a ghost flew, neither the fighters, nor the entire air defense system could do anything, just didn’t catch up, it flew away, but promised to return ... possibly in the MIG-25RB version with nuclear weapons, free fall bombs from it flew over 40km and buried tens of meters in the ground
      1. 3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 11 New
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        Ok, how accurately did the 25th put his bombs (how many hundred meters of airborne forces)?
        1. KCA
          KCA 5 May 2020 05: 10 New
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          With the latest version of radar equipment +/- 20 meters, and so with different equipment from 400 to 1750m, but for one thermonuclear bomb weighing 5 tons, or two 2,5-ton it is not critical
          1. 3danimal 5 May 2020 05: 32 New
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            + \ - 20 meters cannot be reached from a great height without correction, the atmosphere is quite unpredictable. A "high point" for the poor, allowing you to increase the effectiveness of free-falling bombs.
            About 5 tons: were you going to use nuclear weapons (and even such power) from the MiG-25 to ... Israel or the USA? With the latter: who made the suicidal decision and why is a vulnerable aircraft better than the ICBM?
            1. KCA
              KCA 5 May 2020 05: 58 New
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              Who was planning what, it was Israel who was going to use nuclear weapons against Egypt, and this worried not only the USSR, but the USA, specifically, the unimpeded flight of MIG-25 over Israel, and the knowledge that it could carry nuclear weapons, or Kissinger’s pressure Gold Mayr to abandon the use of nuclear weapons, I will not say for sure
              1. 3danimal 5 May 2020 06: 15 New
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                So knowledge or pressure?
                In addition, Israel was then in a critical situation, attacked by trained and armed USSR of Egypt and Syria from two sides. (All paid by the rich and generous citizens of the Union).
                The defeat in that war meant the genocide of the Israelis (the leaders of the Arab countries hinted at it with might and main).
                But thanks to training and courage (and much more motivation), it was the Israelis who won. In the largest tank battles of modern tanks, 2 halves of the 20th century, by the way.
        2. mvg
          mvg 6 May 2020 19: 24 New
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          how many hundreds of meters

          how many tens of kilometers, most likely. from 3000 km / h, from an altitude of 17 km to throw (and this is the question of what is technically possible) cast iron. Again, KSA had visions of a squirrel or a chipmunk what was whispering?
          1. 3danimal 6 May 2020 19: 52 New
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            In a vacuum, no problems at all.
            How do you level the heterogeneity of the atmosphere (air movement), the non-ideal detachment of bombs when dropped from a great height?
    2. Cyril G ... Today, 08: 14 New
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      Quote: Alexey RA
      And as a result we get again 1973 or 1982. Then there was also an air defense system, built according to Soviet principles and staffed with Soviet training.


      In 1989, when the MO commission studied the state of the Syrian air defense and air force - in addition to the fact that a larger percentage of technically faulty equipment was found out, the Syrians did not even ask for a technical description of the aircraft and air defense systems to be translated into Arabic and made available to them.
      Another moment. One of my teachers was from BAKU, a teacher at the Foreign Faculty. I remember he was asked about the level of final training of foreigners. Conclusion in a nutshell, from the ATS the best Germans studied with desire and mastered knowledge well, the worst Romanians.
      “Of the other, the best Indians, the worst Arabs.”
  • 3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 10 New
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    Rafal had a serial radar with AFAR, MiG didn’t, only a prototype demonstrator. Not that degree of readiness.
  • Jager 5 May 2020 18: 54 New
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    They’ve been fighting for 8 years and will never learn ...
  • Shavkat Kuvatov 6 May 2020 14: 36 New
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    That's for sure. As for the "modern battles", then in Syria, this exotic is enough, just participate wisely.
  • Sergei 777 4 May 2020 13: 20 New
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    Well, the fact that the Arabs are not the best war was clear after the six-day war. Saber waving, they are masters, but there where you need to think ...
    1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 13: 52 New
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      I also thought about sabers))) but seriously, they mastered our T-55s very well, these are the tanks they need to supply with good DZ and more or less "understandable" electronics. Yes, and a separate school of tankers, it would not hurt to open, for foreigners, let us go through "alternative service", study and pay for it))
      1. tatarin1972 4 May 2020 14: 55 New
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        In war, they usually learn quickly, those who study poorly are usually buried quickly. There is probably not enough motivation or character.
      2. Jager 5 May 2020 18: 56 New
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        The T-55 is a Mosin rifle among tanks. A simpler, more efficient and more technological machine must be looked for.
        1. Stalllker 6 May 2020 01: 36 New
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          So I'm talking about it
      3. mvg
        mvg 6 May 2020 19: 27 New
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        our T-55s they mastered well

        It’s so good that 800 T-55 couldn’t break through the defense of less than a hundred Centurions from two times .. but they burned wildly and gave in bulk.
    2. Alex Nevs 4 May 2020 20: 10 New
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      And where you need to think, they just wave a saber.
    3. 3danimal 5 May 2020 13: 27 New
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      In the "6-day" they waved a saber (with a guarantee to receive in response) were not ready. This is not a civilian kill ..
  • dvina71 4 May 2020 13: 21 New
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    But those ZRPKs that fell into the possession of the air defense forces of the Syrian Arab Republic seemed to be replaced: the Syrians regularly miss Israeli attacks on their territory. Moreover, the Israelis succeeded in destroying at least two Syrian Shells.

    I would like to believe that such an opinion is based on statistics ..
    And two .. Given that the Israelis organized a hunt at PtsS1 .. and they hit him in a non-combat-ready state ..
    Better talk for Libya .. not? How does PcS1 live in the same world as the Turkish UAV Bayraktar? *
    1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 13: 33 New
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      You have outdated information, the IDF destroyed at least two Shells, and one was definitely in combat condition (this can be seen from desperate attempts to bring down the ammunition). The problem with the supply of weapons to those who are facing the IDF is that the last combat-ready draft army in history, and they can bypass air defense - there are two wrecked missions for hundreds and hundreds of sorties (I do not consider Russian military transport shot down), is an excellent result.
      1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 13: 54 New
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        E-mine, right the most !!!)))) if only in your region
        1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 14: 00 New
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          Are there more combat-ready draft armies? As for the non-conscripts, I don’t even know the contract ones, but among the conscripts they’re a topek ... the truth is this is due to the genesis of their state.
          1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 14: 11 New
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            You can link to the rating of draft armies?!))))) And the Turkish army, which topic is included? They are there and they are not bare-footed Palestinians with pipes instead of rockets. But Iran will roll your top, give them only freedom
            1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 14: 52 New
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              The IDF is superbly armed, highly equipped, and extremely motivated (otherwise Israel will be cut out, well, genocide is everything).
              Turkish showed herself in Afrin - not impressive.
              You are very mistaken that the IDF dealt only with the "naked".
              The Iranian military (maybe they are motivated - but not a fact, yet the regime didn’t collapse just because of the increase in egg prices) are definitely worse armed, moreover, over the entire nomenclature, not to mention aviation and anti-tank systems. So yes, I’m sure that the IDF is the most combat-ready draft army in the world. As I said, about the professional army is still a debatable issue.
              1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 15: 08 New
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                You want yourselves as much as you want, if the Jews didn’t have the United States behind Iran, Iran would have “slaughtered” you
                1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 15: 13 New
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                  Well, I'm not a Jew, and now US intervention is not necessary, and when the US intervened against Israel, almost all Arabs fought, so this is evidence of the IDF’s incapacity.
                  I sincerely do not understand what it takes to be an anti-Semite in order to be for Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists, to be against a state with which after 2014 it is possible to maintain warm relations despite everything ... everyday anti-Semitism of Russians has never been painted including pogroms after Russian-Japanese.
                  1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 15: 24 New
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                    I’m not anti-Semite, but let's face it, the Jews are squeezing land that doesn’t belong to them and dictating their conditions. So I have a heightened sense of justice. Their happiness is that instead of Lebanon is not Turkey, but instead of Syria is not Iran.
                    1. borberd 4 May 2020 15: 43 New
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                      Jews do not squeeze the land for 40+ years. And you still sausages from the fact that a couple of square kilometers was taken from the aggressor. And a sense of justice is alien to you, because it is selective.
                      1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 17: 36 New
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                        You tell it to your grandmother
                      2. borberd 4 May 2020 18: 05 New
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                        This "heightened sense of justice" is seething in you laughing . Before writing this, they would be preoccupied with more than 200 territorial conflicts in the world. And then, perhaps, the “heightened sense of justice” will pass. Although not a fact.
                  2. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 17: 36 New
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                    These lands were overcome by the Arabs thanks to the Arab conquests, in the twentieth century they were legalized after the WWII, thanks to the British (Lawrence of Arabia all matters), moreover, the British first guaranteed these lands to the Jews ... well.
                    The international community has recognized Israel. Arabs fought with them and lost. The lands are legitimized and legalistic and through violence (as the Arabs prefer), in my opinion the question is removed.
                    If you are not anti-Semitic, then why are you trying to introduce stronger neighbors to Israel, whom he would lose (what would result from the loss we all know)? In other words, it is not anti-Semite who imagines a scenario with a massacre ... strange, just anti-Semites usually like to imagine "the final solution to the Jewish question."
                    1. D16
                      D16 4 May 2020 19: 38 New
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                      These lands were overcome by the Arabs thanks to the Arab conquests, in the XNUMXth century they were legalized after the WWII, thanks to the British

                      But what about the rights of the Philistines, which the Jews slaughtered after a walk from Egypt? laughing In any way, they lived on those lands long before the Jews. To begin with, the One of the Rothschilds who financed the purchase of Palestinian lands was never Ottoman, just as the Ottomans were Jews who settled on those lands from the end of the 19th century.
                      That is, even then, the stay of Jews in Palestine did not have any legal basis. The Ottoman Empire did not sell land to foreigners. From here we come to the question:
                      moreover, the British at first guaranteed the same lands to the Jews ...

                      Enchanting nonsense. How could the British guarantee the Jews the lands of their ally, on what basis ?. And even after World War II, the British were categorically against the formation of Israel in Palestine. Probably guessed something laughing .
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                    3. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 18: 31 New
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                      Your friends are cleaning comments, I hope you read the wiki about the history of Israel on the wiki, and you are no longer having so much fun.
                    4. D16
                      D16 5 May 2020 19: 07 New
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                      In response, I can offer you a version that was not combed by Jewish propagandists. They haven’t reached there yet. I warn you, a lot of letters, numbers, surnames, land acquisition and resale schemes
                      EDMON DE ROTSHILD:
                      patronage colonization
                      http://www.balandin.net/Gunin/GulagPalestiny05.htm
                      To vskidku:
                      Herzl (I hope it’s not necessary to remind who he is) writes: “It is necessary that the suffering of the Jews (...) intensify. This will help us realize our plans. I came across a wonderful idea. We must inflate anti-Semitism to eliminate the welfare of the Jews. Thus "Anti-Semites will help us if they intensify persecution and oppression. Anti-Semites should be our best friends."
                    5. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 20: 33 New
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                      Is that what I thought? It's a small world! This is the conspiracy theory that Jewish pogroms were organized by ... Zionists.
                      No offense, but all the evidence is a quote from Gunin and each other.
                      You’d better listen to Galkovsky, he voices real facts besides conspiracy theories. And that the Russian cryptocolonies of themselves are simply otpad, nonsense, but funny.
                    6. D16
                      D16 5 May 2020 23: 35 New
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                      No, really. You read nonsense of Galkovsky yourself. In Gunin, everything is just logical. If you do not pay attention to conspiracies about the Illuminati and the number of beast wassat , his theory is well within the scope of what I know, saw and read. Yes, there are a lot of links to proofs. Including Herzl’s writings cited by me.
                      The fact that the Zionists drove emigrants from the former USSR to Israel is true. Yasha Kedmi will not let lie laughing . There is nothing about the organization of pogroms, but about provocation there. As well as about the appearance of emigration agencies in Odessa and Romania shortly before their start. Regarding the purchase and resale of land in Palestine, the author refers to the work of Arthur Ruppin, Buying the Emek Published in The New Palestine, New York May, 1929. Unfortunately, he will turn out to clean up like cat parasites on all matters relating to Israel and anti-symmetry. So send links to Wikipedia. Jews there are the whitest and most furry people in the world lol .
                    7. Carnifexx 6 May 2020 12: 30 New
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                      Yasha Kedmi will not let lie
                      Well, since he will not let you lie ...
                      You read nonsense of Galkovsky yourself.
                      Well, his nonsense is funnier, plus the factology is much better.
                      In Gunin, everything is just logical.
                      I noticed.
                      Buying the Emek Published in The New Palestine
                      Cool, but what's criminal? With Herzel, it is also unclear where he has such phrases plus in what context. This phrase is found in Gunin's Box.
                      In general, far gone from ... Shell.
          2. Stalllker 5 May 2020 01: 34 New
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            Tell this to your grandfather.
      2. Stalllker 4 May 2020 15: 25 New
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        And what kind of terrorists are you talking about?
        1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 17: 36 New
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          Hamas, Hezbollah.
          1. Stalllker 5 May 2020 01: 36 New
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            Russia also recognizes them as terrorist organizations?
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 15: 01 New
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            For me they are terrorists by definition. After all, they committed terrorist attacks. I threw off the lists, but lost comments, I wonder why.
          4. Stalllker 5 May 2020 16: 47 New
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            Probably drove away))) but for me normal guys! How to be now?)))
          5. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 18: 32 New
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            Well, if normal guys for you are those who blow up buses with passengers, then ok, everything is clear with you.
          6. Stalllker 6 May 2020 01: 34 New
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            APU also blow up buses with passengers and a completely legitimate army. So your argument is not appropriate
          7. Carnifexx 6 May 2020 12: 38 New
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            But would you expect Al-Qaeda to be in place of Hamas? My argument would not be appropriate either? If not, what is the difference between them (Hamas and Al Qaeda)? If yes, then ... you understand
          8. Stalllker 6 May 2020 15: 46 New
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            That's when al-Qaeda will be instead of Hamas, then we’ll talk about it
          9. Carnifexx 6 May 2020 19: 30 New
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            You know how to avoid comments, I noticed this, this difficult task is good for you. So what is the difference between Hamas and al Qaeda?
  • Pilat2009 6 May 2020 13: 07 New
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    Is it interesting that Israel recognizes the igil, jabra, and other wastes of Idlib as terrorists? Besides, there were Ira, red brigades in history, there was also some kind of faction in Germany, in Spain. They all fought for something.
  • Carnifexx 6 May 2020 13: 56 New
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    Recognizes. There were. Fought. What are you doing?
  • Pilat2009 6 May 2020 20: 05 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx
    Recognizes. There were. Fought. What are you doing?

    Besides, when Fatah was in power, you fed them cookies and promised, promised. People cannot live in peace until territorial issues are settled. Israel tidied up Palestinian and Syrian lands, Russia tidied up Crimea. Russia imposed sanctions on Israel and the mustache does not blow, because it has a lobby in America. At the same time, there is the Turkish Republic of Cyprus and the Armenian Karabakh with several regions of Azerbaijan. But the Armenians also have a strong lobby, so they are not particularly flattened
  • Carnifexx 6 May 2020 20: 56 New
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    Besides, when Fatah was in power, you fed them cookies and promised, promised
    I don’t know who you take me for.
    People cannot live in peace until territorial issues are resolved
    I agree. But it can be settled in different ways.
    Israel tidied up the Palestinian and Syrian lands, Russia tidied up the Crimea. Russia imposed sanctions and Israel didn’t blow on the mustache, because it has a lobby in America.
    It seems to me that there are more factors. But yes, Israel is doing better.
    At the same time, there is the Turkish Republic of Cyprus
    There is. The Turks podsulilis while almost no matter to the territory of others.
    Armenian Karabakh with several districts of Azerbaijan. But Armenians also have a strong lobby, so they are not particularly flattened
    Well, you list where one situation is more complicated than the previous one.
    I remembered that the UAE also recently overcame Socorte. Fun people live.
  • WapentakeLokki 4 May 2020 15: 59 New
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    ... maybe you should calculate how many Russian people were killed by the Commies and the composition .. (.. especially on the basis of nationality ..) the Cheka and RevTrebunalov ... I'm already silent about the composition of the PBC and NarKomov ... where people with iconic surnames are 99 % ... so maybe the Russian people have a basis for such an attitude towards the `` God-chosen nation '', having received for a short (.. on a Historical scale ..) the time period managed to do so .. manifest ???
    1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 17: 46 New
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      Yes, a lot, but the commies were mostly Russians.
      As for the first Leninists, there were less than 99% of Jews there, and those who were not Jewish nationalists, but, on the contrary, internationalists.
      Another question is why the Jews were so active in radical groups.
      The Russians had domestic anti-Semitism BEFORE the revolution, read about the pogroms after the Russo-Japanese - natural massacre with all the "charms" in punishment for the defeat in the war. Pale of Settlement. Well, myths about the fact that Jews allegedly drank the blood of Russian babies ...
      Actually, it’s not difficult to guess how it happened, adding up the first and second - Jews were not carefully incorporated into the Russian society => Jews, desperate to be led by the commies to the stories of internationalism and joined them. In fairness, there were also Zionists who, of course, didn’t particularly adjoin commies. The commies skillfully used all those dissatisfied with tsarism, including the Czechoslovak corps.
      1. Oleg133 4 May 2020 18: 08 New
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        There were no pogroms on the territory of the Russian Federation. All claims are for Ukrainians, please.
      2. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 18: 26 New
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        God, you and Ukrainians are to blame here ...
        Starodub, Simferopol, Makaryev, Kerch, Enikale, Tomsk, Krasnoyarsk, Rostov-on-Don, Molodechno (arranged by the Russian army).
    2. WapentakeLokki 5 May 2020 19: 13 New
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      ..nothing about ... about Russians as part of the Cheka ... this is for someone else ... there is a GuGol and there is infa with surnames ... and all sorts of things, there are Blumkins with Peters ... well, whoever wants to ... will find .. .to the fact that, having seized power, the Jews took off in all serious ways ... well, they had an excuse ... they oppressed + the Pale of Settlement ... but .. THIS WAS A RUSSIAN EMPIRE ... and all those who were dissatisfied could bring down ... but for some reason they stubbornly sought everyone hook or by crook to the trough .. (.. and someone Polyakov and the other Ryabushinsky .. they succeeded .. no) and having got on supplies to the Russian army they turned around .. huh ... so maybe that was right man .. the locomotives are worth PRESS .. while they are still teapots .. and what happened to MY country .. and this is the same .. the Russians were too soft .. (.. well, except for the Black Hundred ..) .. but yavrei NO .. and tell me that the pogroms were cooler than the Gulag !!!
  • garri-lin 4 May 2020 18: 01 New
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    The average Israeli draftee differs little from a professional. Because of the motivation, training and natural "militancy" of the Jewish nation. These people are fighting most of their history.
  • Pup1 4 May 2020 22: 18 New
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    For years, Israel can do nothing with the surrounding slaves .... Ponte but a great training ground for us and the states ... forward ..
    1. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 11: 56 New
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      For years, Israel has nothing to do with those around it ...
      What is meant by do? Well, kakbe they do a lot in the region including this:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outside_the_Box
  • Grits 5 May 2020 18: 17 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx
    So yes, I’m sure that the IDF is the most combat-ready draft army in the world.

    And I’m sure that the IDF, as well as all of Israel, still exist because of the fact that they are under the wing of the United States
    1. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 18: 40 New
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      And who can compete there? Syria - no, their army is not without help (Iran and the Russian Federation) barely defeated the rebels. Lebanon - even to speak funny. Jordan is very unlikely, and not very well armed, and with no motivation. Comedian you. To make it easier for you to remember any war of the Great Patriotic War for Israel.
  • Grits 5 May 2020 18: 13 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx
    Are there more combat-ready draft armies?

    Tear your nose off the map of Israel and take a look at the world map. There is such a big, big country. Pink painted over. Do not know what kind of army is there?
    1. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 18: 40 New
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      Well yes, so what?
    2. Pilat2009 6 May 2020 22: 31 New
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      Quote: Gritsa
      There is such a big, big country. Pink painted over. Do not know what kind of army is there?

      The draft army, where they serve for a year, can’t fight normally. Yes, it did with Georgia. Not so much with Chechnya
  • dvina71 4 May 2020 14: 06 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx
    (This is evident from desperate attempts to bring down the ammunition).

    You about it

    1.15 ..
    Firstly, it’s not clear that it was Pts1S ... that was shot, and there is no fact of a hit, the video from the source breaks off.
    Secondly .. as far as I saw videos of the Pts1S firing, its missiles never commit such evolutions at launch. They fly in a straight line.
    Typically, such maneuvers are made by missiles with AGSN .. with PTs1S the principle is different. Automation is guided by the shortest straight line.
    1. KCA
      KCA 4 May 2020 19: 55 New
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      I can, of course, be mistaken, the quality is not a fountain, but was it not on these frames that the particularly inquisitive blogger recognized that the chassis of the Shell was not KAMAZ, but MAN? By some geometrical features, where did Syria get the Shell on MAN? Libya, no? Or did Hussites try in Saudi Arabia itself?
      1. dvina71 4 May 2020 20: 01 New
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        Quote: KCA
        but wasn’t it on these frames that the especially inquisitive blogger recognized that the chassis of the Shell was not KAMAZ, but MAN?

        Not .. it's like an Israeli attack, but there it was about Turkish.
        1. KCA
          KCA 4 May 2020 20: 06 New
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          It seems that the quality is specially blurred, you don’t understand what and how, do drones or drums lie such a shooting quality, well, or vice versa, have their own image cleaning algorithms
      2. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 15: 23 New
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        Officially, the C1 shell can also be on the MAN chassis, especially since the complex itself is not so much a chassis as a gun mount with a radar.
        1. KCA
          KCA 5 May 2020 15: 49 New
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          Simply, C1 was delivered to Syria on the KAMAZ chassis, but in the UAE on the MAN chassis, and the UAE, together with the KSA, supply Haftar with weapons, including Shells
    2. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 15: 22 New
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      https://youtu.be/i-f76UbZ2Qk?t=113 тут неплохо видно что ракета может резко поворачивать после выстрела, в целом я не представляю откуда вы взяли что она по прямой летит.
      1. dvina71 5 May 2020 19: 50 New
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        Quote: Carnifexx
        here you can see well

        It’s not hard to see that the rocket flew in an arc .. but it doesn’t scour .. like in a video from the Air Force. So missiles from the IKGSN scour .. so it is likely that Strela shot at the object that was shooting, of which there are enough of the ATS ..
        1. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 20: 42 New
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          Persuaded, Shell C1 is a superweapon and it is not vulnerable. After all, you saw on the video that the rocket somehow doesn’t fly like that, you are special in weapons, in which the T-72 towers are welded.
          1. dvina71 5 May 2020 21: 13 New
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            Quote: Carnifexx
            Persuaded

            I did not convince you of anything.
  • bars1 4 May 2020 15: 13 New
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    Well, I think the Wehrmacht of the 1941 model. will be more efficient. If we talk about the story.
    1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 15: 17 New
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      I’m not sure that the Wehrmacht’s weapons and tactics are much worse. If you do not make a discount on time and stuff, then the IDF is definitely cooler.
      1. Grits 5 May 2020 18: 26 New
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        Quote: Carnifexx
        I’m not sure that the Wehrmacht’s weapons and tactics are much worse. If you do not make a discount on time and stuff, then the IDF is definitely cooler.

        Only the Wehrmacht with "poor armament and bad tactics" conquered all of Europe in a few years, and the steep IDF in Lebanon screwed up against the semi-partisan Hezbollah
        1. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 18: 49 New
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          Where to begin? It is not very fair to compare armies of the past and modern, but your remark is not about that. And the fact that the Wehrmacht was steeper than those armies that won, it means it will be steeper than the modern army of Israel, which absorbed the combat experience and weapons arising from the DISAPPEARANCE of Verkhmakht. You would reread your posts. Well, about Hezbollah is ridiculous - and who knows how to fight with the partisans? For an incomprehensible purpose, you choose anecdotal evidence to support your point of view.
      2. Pilat2009 6 May 2020 22: 43 New
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        Quote: Carnifexx
        Wehrmacht's weapons and tactics are much worse

        Armament, yes. Well, 70 years have passed since then. But by tactics, the Germans gave everyone a light on the First and the Second World War. They only fought on two fronts
        1. Carnifexx 7 May 2020 07: 54 New
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          It has passed. They gave. Screwed up. See how Israel fought, and with what superiority the enemy.
  • 5-9
    5-9 4 May 2020 17: 26 New
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    Tzahal and helhaavir certainly well done ... More precisely, just white people (figuratively) among the natives. This saves them.
    But in this situation, when the Israelis are hitting quietly from their or Lebanese territory, and the Syrians are simply trying to bring down the UAAS without returning in the form of launching missiles on planes taking off from the AB or on the AB itself, the result is logical ... Something sooner or later destroyed ... It's like football, where only one team hits the goal ...
  • Jager 5 May 2020 18: 59 New
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    And who is Israel really fighting with? For 40 years now it’s been driving the Kalash neighbors and knocking down rockets, periodically shooting from planes.
  • Cyril G ... Today, 08: 18 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx
    Russian domestic anti-Semitism has never been painted including pogroms after Russian-Japanese.


    If sclerosis does not fail me, pogroms of Jews after the REV took place on the territory of present-day Ukraine.
  • dvina71 4 May 2020 13: 26 New
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    For example, the M1A2 Abrams is fairly fairly considered one of the best main battle tanks in the modern world. But the Hussites safely beat him out of the Towsan-1 ATGM of Iranian production.

    Question to the author of the article .. In battles with which super-equipped army did the USA lose this wonderful armored vehicle?
    1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 13: 57 New
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      "Cemetery" in Afghanistan?
      1. dvina71 4 May 2020 13: 58 New
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        Quote: Stalllker
        "Cemetery" in Afghanistan?

        In Iraq Moreover, these are those that can not be repaired. BT with non-critical damage was constantly exported.
        1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 14: 13 New
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          Exactly, it’s from the RPG that the first Abrashi burned like matches
          1. dvina71 4 May 2020 14: 15 New
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            Quote: Stalllker
            Exactly, it’s from the RPG that the first Abrashi burned like matches

            I'm not sure about this .. there were a few cases of defeat from 7ki, and mostly mines and land mines .. The tall, direct M1 profile took all the explosion power.
            1. Stalllker 4 May 2020 14: 24 New
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              I watched the video, beat on board
          2. 3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 15 New
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            Can you give the statistics of the burned “like matches” from the RPG-7 Abrams?
        2. Ramzaj99 4 May 2020 15: 03 New
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          Quote: dvina71
          In Iraq Moreover, these are those that can not be repaired. BT with non-critical damage was constantly exported.

          This base is not the only one with salvage. And yes, it is Iraq, and there it’s just not repairable, which can be repaired right away .. And such YouTube videos are banning. I already know about five cases.
    2. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 14: 06 New
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      There are more T-90s in Syria than the pieces of equipment present in this video (with pathos music), so that as a counter-argument to "For example, the M1A2 Abrams tank is fairly fairly considered one of the best main battle tanks in the modern world". Especially true, it is believed, and justified. Why argue with this, and even with jokes (like my neighbor bought Tayota - shit and not a car) I do not understand
      1. dvina71 4 May 2020 14: 09 New
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        Quote: Carnifexx
        There are more than 90 Ts in Syria than there are units of equipment in this video.

        and can you confirm all this?
        A total of 15 T-90s were delivered by CAA .., not counting recent deliveries.
        1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 15: 06 New
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          According to my data, the SAA delivered 70 T-90s and this is only on January 1, 2018. Perhaps I slightly exaggerated the overall loss of the T-90, they are approximately equal to the number of Abrams in a tearful video.
      2. Stalllker 4 May 2020 14: 15 New
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        Concrete gouging some ninety
        1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 15: 06 New
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          At least 6 actually
          1. dvina71 4 May 2020 16: 41 New
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            Quote: Carnifexx
            At least 6 actually

            SO ..facts will be ..or again the batteries have sat down at the phone?
            1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 17: 57 New
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              Lost Armor says the loss of at least 6 T-90s.
              1. dvina71 4 May 2020 18: 01 New
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                Quote: Carnifexx
                Lost Armor says the loss of at least 6 T-90s.

                Do they have video evidence?
                1. Carnifexx 4 May 2020 18: 35 New
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                  https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/03/27/saa-vehicle-losses-2011-2017/
                  2017 was particularly unsuccessful for the T-90. Actually, this "patriotic" position is tiring to demand proofs from opponents, but for your position it’s almost nothing, if only it’s pleasant to hear.
                  1. dvina71 4 May 2020 18: 41 New
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                    Quote: Carnifexx
                    bellingcat

                    This is a joke?
                    On the Lost is the t-90 lost at Al-Qashma. In fact, it turned out that the Tigers operating the T-90 there didn’t lose the tanks .. but the one that is presented as a T-72 photo fact, really lost CAA ... more likely left. The question is .. he was blown up by an action movie or worked out by the air forces ..
                    1. Carnifexx 5 May 2020 11: 48 New
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                      Throw a link to your information on the T-90 in Syria, otherwise it is nothing more than unfounded.
                      As for the photo with bellingcat. Does the T-72 have a cast tower?
                      1. dvina71 5 May 2020 23: 42 New
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                        Quote: Carnifexx
                        Throw a link

                        Link to what? ON Armor Lost? And without a link in any way?
                        Then, in a search engine, we gain the loss of T-90 from al-Kashma .. and voila .. links to the situation.
                        https://free-news.su/interesnoe/24796-unichtozhen-rossijskij-tank-t-90a
                        The second one. if you are an attentive person, you will find that the pictures combined in Lost about this incident from different places. That ... where the machine gun is burning on the T-90 in the field behind the embankment. The hull and tower of the building .. as if this should prompt an idea .. not?
                        Cast cast .. but I emphasize it to you once .. the photographs are compiled from different places.
                        There was also a T-90 captured from the SAA by the militants .. they posted a video on the net about this. So this T-90 was destroyed. Even VKS connected .. helicopters.
                        tell me .. what do the militants have than can deploy the T-90?
                        1. and the only one. Blow up from the inside ..
                      2. Carnifexx 6 May 2020 12: 43 New
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                        https://free-news.su/interesnoe/24796-unichtozhen-rossijskij-tank-t-90a => "При этом, по мнению сирийских офицеров, на фотографиях изображен не Т-90А, а Т-72Б, партия которых была также поставлена Россией ВС САР. На это указывают некоторые элементы конструкции"
                        An excellent source, the T-72B welded tower, in general, as I said. But Tiger Forces can not lie for propaganda purposes? Especially when lying is easy to catch.
                        Explode from the inside out
                        Tanks of the T-72/90 series throw turrets, they explode ... from the inside.
                      3. dvina71 6 May 2020 12: 49 New
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                        Quote: Carnifexx
                        Great source

                        SUCH AS LOST ARMOR AND BELLINGKAT ..
                        But the submission of invoices by both armor and cat is suspicious. Once again I write .. photo-90 from different places.
                      4. Carnifexx 6 May 2020 13: 51 New
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                        SUCH AS LOST ARMOR AND BELLINGKAT ..
                        Do not put them in a row. Bellingcat is clearly a bigger source, given that you gave one where VOICE statements are given.
                        But submission of the invoice by both armor and cat is suspicious
                        Yes? But the allegations that you like are not suspicious.
                        Once again I write .. photo-90 from different places.
                        That is, these photos indicate two destroyed T-90s. Okay, for Yanovsky’s note, he calculated two for one.
                      5. dvina71 6 May 2020 13: 54 New
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                        Quote: Carnifexx
                        That is, these photos indicate two destroyed T-90

                        No .. this indicates an attempt to pull an owl on the globe by Ishilovites.
                        And that the T-90 did not just ride in Syria, but took part in battles and were attacked by ATGMs.
  • Grits 5 May 2020 18: 30 New
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    Quote: dvina71
    In battles with what super-equipped army did the USA lose this wonderful armored vehicle?

    What a nice movie. I would look and see ...
  • viktor_ui 4 May 2020 13: 33 New
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    But the Shell has a fully automatic perimeter security mode (saying from the screen of our TV one brow of this project - he watched it 10-15 years ago). Or export are not equipped with such an opportunity? Well, the low preparation of calculations is entirely on the conscience of the one who "trained" them and put them to slaughter ... the easiest way is to blame the stupid Aboriginal people. Well, we will not discount the possible stupid combat management of senior officers who give orders to scorch white light like a penny and, as a result, empty Shell. It is possible that there is an aggregate staffing bouquet in the problem of selecting, preparing, operating highly sophisticated military equipment, which leads to low combat effectiveness and combat stability.
    1. KCA
      KCA 4 May 2020 19: 58 New
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      When all ammunition is at 0, what automation will help?
      1. viktor_ui 5 May 2020 05: 34 New
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        And firing into the white light like a pretty penny ... apparently, well, it doesn’t affect the preparation of the calculation, the consumption of precious ammunition at the time of the clash, the absence of MTOs with them (separation from supply) ... often illiterate control and use of available forces in stock. Or has all this been done by automated control of this complex? We have already seen the shell’s defeat in the stowed position and with a calculation close by, we saw the shell’s direct defeat during a direct battle, where he could not hit the attack means by firing at him two or three packets of MIMO ... without firing from cannons ( why the operators couldn’t detach themselves from the interference, which guidance channels were used and what was happening in the combat module in general ??? Question to specialists, and I have questions. And as a result, we have a multiplied by 0 fighting unit by opponents from Tsakhal. I hope what I answered your 0 + a automatic.
  • AllBiBek 4 May 2020 13: 33 New
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    About modern armored vehicles and Arabs on it and against it, I somehow had thoughts out loud, I will share it.

    American tankers: sincerely convinced that Abrams is perfect for anything, even to the point of chasing Arabs on foot through the desert. After the preliminary carpet bombing, of course. In a dream, they often dream of Arabs with RPGs. After such dreams, they wake up in a cold sweat and call their personal psychologists.

    French tank crews: the last time their great-grandfathers went to a full-fledged battle on tanks was also on the fields of the First World War, somewhere near Marne. Those American tractors with electric transmission and English naval cannons - tanks sincerely believe. They believe that they can drive the Arabs on their territory at anything, but best of all at the Leclerc. At the same time, they do not notice point-blank that the Arabs have long been chasing their compatriots on the streets of Paris without any tanks.

    British tankers: sincerely consider Challenger 2 suitable, if only to drive the Arabs through the desert. Proud that the English diamond-shaped tanks are considered classic. The fact that the ancestor of all modern tanks was the French wedge heel with a turret - they try not to remember.

    German tankers: the only ones in Europe whose ancestors won tank battles on equal terms and without the support of aviation. While Leopard-2 is considered the best tank in the world, the Arabs do not doze off, and they close up the new Germans to their wives. Often forcibly.

    Israeli tankers: these know for sure that Merkava can drive Arabs through the desert and tail and mane, even if they fight on modern Russian tanks. Sincerely consider the T-55 a modern Russian tank. Sincerely consider Merkava a) the best in the world b) modern c) tank.

    Russian tank crews: for half a century now, at least they have been teaching Arabs to fight in Soviet tanks, and after Russian tanks. So far, to no avail. Sincerely hope that the Russian BTV will soon transfer to the Armata, but rather the Arab tankers will learn a) to fight on any Russian tanks b) to win them c) themselves.

    Arab tankers: the only ones who really know how to drive Arabs through the desert through any Soviet tanks, but better on machine-gun pickups. For, whatever one may say, the enemy is the same Arabs, and all the same old Soviet tanks.

    Ukrainian tankers: sincerely consider the Omsk T-80 of the Ukrainian modernization of the UD version (see "shameful ud",) delivered to Pakistan - the best foreign tank in the world. The fact that in the event of a direct collision for each such one from neighboring Indians, at least five pieces of T-90 Bhishma clones alone are ready, which will lead to a completely understandable result - they try not to think. More precisely, they think so, but they believe that everything will not be so, because few people can watch tomorrow. Sincerely consider the T-64 Bulat the best Ukrainian tank in the world. The fact that the word "Bulat" is of Indian origin is not known. But they suspect that it is ancient Ukrainian!

    Something like that.
    1. voyaka uh 4 May 2020 15: 41 New
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      Add to yourself:
      "I sincerely consider Russian tanks the most powerful and modern in the world."
      With this addition, your long post will be absolutely complete. smile drinks
      1. AllBiBek 4 May 2020 15: 55 New
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        About Russian tanks there it was expressed, and - I don’t think at all that the future in future wars is with tanks. It really hurt a lot of all budget-anti-tank invented and produced over the past half century.

        In fact, the tank today is a very large-caliber sniper at the front line, with one degree or another of mobility, to dump after a shot, or to withstand what will fly in that direction when the position is opened.

        It was approximately the same in all relatively large wars of the past and present centuries, when a sniper position was revealed. In it, over the area, it began to peel everything that could from what the approximate coordinates of where the sniper fire had come from were reported.

        Somehow I see it.
    2. Bersaglieri 5 May 2020 12: 28 New
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      Great Sammari happened :) As in the good old days of writing "Notes on Normal Tanks"
  • Amateur 4 May 2020 13: 39 New
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    After all, every failure of the Syrian air defense forces casts a shadow on Russian-made weapons: articles on the minuses of the Pantsir air defense system, their uselessness in front of Israeli aviation, immediately appear in the world press.

    - The Israeli Defense Ministry published a video of the defeat of the Syrian Shell. You studied this episode, why did they manage to destroy it?

    - This "Shell" of the Syrian armed forces managed to hit eight targets, and it just did not have any rockets left. The combat crew left the car and stood nearby - waiting for a transport-loading car with new ammunition. One person from the combat crew, as seen in the video, ran - he apparently had a phone in the car. It was impossible to do so - it was necessary to immediately withdraw the fighting vehicle from the position after the ammunition was shot, immediately, then everything would be fine.
    (TASS talked with the chief designer of the complex Valery Slugin on the effectiveness of the use of the "Shell" in real hostilities. 29.01.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX

    https://tass.ru/interviews/7623815
    Just in case, I give a link, otherwise some "comrades" regularly accuse me of generating fakes.
  • Free wind 4 May 2020 13: 42 New
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    Apparently the tank is not destroyed, you see the monkeys cautiously approaching it, like the Kaa constrictor. The engine works, and the main one. Why the crew abandoned the car, and died nearby, is unclear. Why they abandoned their positions and abandoned their weapons. So the position is not bad, protected. They would protect each other, and no one would do anything to them. About the shell, it is autonomous, and it has its own locator, at the shell the long-range missiles are 6-10 km long, Israel is hammering from 20 km, and it’s doing the right thing. Well, in this Syria they pray 5 times a day, and it’s 2-3 hours to stand in a pose “to the top with cowards”.
  • Evdokim 4 May 2020 13: 45 New
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    As I understand it, the meaning of the article can be expressed in two quotes:
    "It wasn’t the cabin,
    ... sat in the cockpit. "
    And "Matches for children are not toys."
    As they say, for modern weapons, in addition to the great desire to possess them and a lot of money, education is necessary, and not only a parish school or madrassa is desirable. hi
  • gabonskijfront 4 May 2020 13: 45 New
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    In a war, the systems that are in the middle of the schedule, the price-quality system, the so-called workhorses, usually work. In general, no one knows what they’ll take out in a future conflict, what they will play with colors. Maybe a three-line rifle will say a new word in tactics , there is only his majesty the experience of combat use, the rest is all fantasy ..
  • rocket757 4 May 2020 13: 49 New
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    . Thus, it is not enough to acquire expensive and high-tech weapons, it is also necessary to create the infrastructure to support its activities, as well as to properly train personnel - both professionally and motivationally.

    Cool! From the very beginning I wrote EXACTLY ABOUT THIS! And was "put in a corner" by the moderators!
    Shaw, now CAN IT WRITE ???
  • Jack O'Neill 4 May 2020 14: 25 New
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    The Saudis are still warriors. If shots are heard somewhere in the distance of tens of kilometers, the Saudis drop everything and run.
    There are enough Vidos, where they drop, albeit lined, but quite working equipment. The same Abrams, after getting ATGMs can still fight, but the Saudis get out of the equipment right under the bullets.
    But the vidos is walking on the net, as Iraqi Abrams is dancing on the bridge and is fighting after repeated hits.

    1. Bersaglieri 5 May 2020 12: 26 New
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      "Escaping at the first shots from the cannons" is a Bedouin "brace" ...
  • Andrey Krasnoyarsky 4 May 2020 14: 26 New
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    So it’s said the same: equipment in the hands of a savage is a pile of metal.
  • Boratsagdiev 4 May 2020 14: 38 New
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    The Hussites are not as simple as they seem.
    They can launch a ballistic missile and use sophisticated equipment.
    And the tanks (as it turned out) they have.
    “Not all Arabs in the east are Arabs” ... although in fact Arabs have already become extinct.
    1. Alexey RA 4 May 2020 16: 56 New
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      Quote: BoratSagdiev
      The Hussites are not as simple as they seem.
      They can launch a ballistic missile and use sophisticated equipment.
      And the tanks (as it turned out) they have.

      As well as anti-ship missile systems and crewless remotely controlled kamikaze boats. And how dashing the Hussites are managing with the anti-tank systems ...
      It’s just that after the well-known video with the destruction in broad daylight of the coalition’s checkpoint, “Hussites” exclusively consider “men in Kalash slippers”. Absolutely forgetting that the backbone of the armed forces of the movement is the cadre army of Yemen.
      In general, the term "Husits" was coined by the Western media in order to present the events in Yemen in the form the rebellion of a group of religious renegades against the legally elected democratic president, who was forced to call for help from neighbors. For if you call what is happening a civil war, then immediately questions arise about the legality of the presence of Coalition troops in Yemen (and these are US allies) and generally about who now represents the legitimate authority in Yemen.
  • steelmaker 4 May 2020 14: 44 New
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    In the USSR, a boy who graduated from 10 classes, received not only secondary education, but also at least 2 categories of locksmith, carpenter, electrician. I’m not talking about NVP. The article is just about that. And if nothing changes in our education, they will already be laughing at us. Or have you already forgotten how the Armata tank died out on Red Square?
    A specialist with a red diploma came to work in our workshop after a technical school. I decided to just talk. So he does not know the units of pressure, temperature, water flow, etc. And what, when I shamed him, do you think he rushed to teach? "I do not need it!" he answered. Although the equipment is now with foreign units. But after working for three months, I began to claim the sixth category.
    And now, with this epidemic, there will be no exams at all. Diplomas will be issued and all the specialist is ready!
  • senima56 4 May 2020 14: 46 New
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    "... the personnel of the Syrian air defense are poorly prepared, they are hardly trained to work with modern technology, they have a poor level of discipline ..." - you don’t need enemies with such "friends"!
    This is a terrible "anti-advertising" of our technology! Do not sell them anything harder than AK!
  • Molot1979 4 May 2020 14: 53 New
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    Another aspect of the problem is educational. Only soldiers with full secondary education can work with sophisticated equipment. And what is the education of the Syrian fighters? It didn’t shine anyway, and now, after so many years of war, you can forget about it at all. And how do they master the "Shell"?
  • Pvi1206 4 May 2020 15: 00 New
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    Saudi troops throw expensive American tanks at the first Hussite shots, and the Syrians are not able to master the Russian-made Pantsir air defense missile system.

    It’s not even a matter of skill, but of the lack of willpower to defend their homeland ... our guys give their lives there, and they can scatter at the first shukher ... it is not known what punishment is written in their Charter ...
  • RED_ICE 4 May 2020 17: 01 New
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    Technique in the hands of the Indians, scrap!
  • 5-9
    5-9 4 May 2020 17: 37 New
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    The only video of the lost Carapace was on the machine that shot the BK ... Why it wasn’t driven into a caponier or why it wasn’t made, but the question is. On the other hand, SAR air defense, 2/3 consisting of antiquities (from air defense systems, radar and automation there seems to be new there), with the most massive shelling of the KR in the history of mankind, 1,5 llama bucks each in the amount of 110 pieces shot down 82 of them.

    But according to the Abrams there is a video of defeat with a firework from an ancient manhole, 1973, with a bassoon when starting from the frontal projection, to the back of the side of the tower ... But how many smart people wrote about small angles of safe maneuvering ...
  • Soveticos 4 May 2020 18: 22 New
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    Based on the article and some commentary, we can draw the following conclusions:
    1. If the Arabs (read, any Muslim) succeed in repelling the attack and inflicting damage to the enemy, then this is purely a merit of advanced technology (example-S-200 shot down F16);
    2. If, for some good, but unknown to us reason, technology controlled by the Arabs is destroyed, some begin to hysteria like "monkey with a grenade."
    “Khmeimim” is attacked not by Jews, but by militants, therefore the air defense performance is good there, the Syrian “Shells” were hunted with all means (intelligence, intelligence, and then, probably, installation, etc.) during the war and fighting Muslims are not allowed to pray, so it’s time to drop all stereotypes. Much more can be said in defense of the Syrian army exhausted by the war and the failures in the 6-day war and the Doomsday War, but for this it will take a lot to write and make a separate article for VO, I hope there is an unbiased journalist and will write about it someday . The conclusion always depends on the point of view and lack of focus on propaganda and false stereotypes covered with terry chauvinism.
  • avib 4 May 2020 18: 29 New
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    In Syria, air defense missile defense systems are on guard of the Russian Khmeimim air base and, it must be said, have shown their best side, reflecting a large number of attacks by militants. But those ZRPKs that fell into the possession of the air defense forces of the Syrian Arab Republic seemed to be substituted: the Syrians regularly miss Israeli attacks on their territory.

    Well compared, of course.
    Apples must be compared with apples.
  • Oleg133 4 May 2020 19: 14 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx

    Starodub, Simferopol, Makaryev, Kerch, Enikale, Tomsk, Krasnoyarsk, Rostov-on-Don, Molodechno (arranged by the Russian army).

    Tomsk They killed everyone who was decently dressed.
    Krasnoyarsk. Miscellaneous data. Several dozen beaten Jews and other newspaper data from 10 to 14 killed.
    Starodub. Ukraine
    Simferopol. There are no injuries.
    Kerch. Two people were killed. One of them is Russian.
    Molodechno. Belarus
    Yenikale. Property Affected
    Rostov. Yes, I agree, drawn to the pogrom. From 40 to 176 killed on both sides.
  • Klingon 4 May 2020 20: 27 New
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    handsome Hussites, dudes in slates with a pair of Iranian birds and AK Chinese crafts, against well-armed Saudis with tanks, armored personnel carriers and helicopters - this is fighting spirit! but why was Abrams firing? you just had to sell it to us wink
    1. Bersaglieri 5 May 2020 12: 24 New
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      For the Hussites - XIR :) So the “dudes in shales” are for the TV picture, nothing more.
  • Uncle Izya 4 May 2020 21: 12 New
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    Something PR this shell can better tori
    1. 5-9
      5-9 5 May 2020 09: 03 New
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      It can’t, but definitely the Torah is better. But also much more expensive.
      The carapace is a short-range object-based air defense system with cheap missiles, cheap guns with cheap shells and a cheap wheeled chassis. Its purpose is to cheaply shoot down multiple UAAS. This is not a child prodigy or Death Star ever from the beginning.
  • D16
    D16 4 May 2020 21: 16 New
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    So the situation is when the Syrian army (SAA) is equipped with modern Pantsir air defense missile systems and is useless, and even harmful for Russia. After all, every failure of the Syrian air defense forces casts a shadow on Russian-made weapons: articles on the minuses of the Pantsir air defense system, their uselessness in front of Israeli aviation, immediately appear in the world press. Caught in inept hands, even the most effective weapon can lose its effectiveness.

    An air defense system begins with a network of survey stations that form a single radar field. Until this condition is met, the Syrian Buki-Shells will periodically bring down something there, but they will not be able to put the Armor Division at each warehouse and they will not be able to watch it 24 hours a week. At least you will put Baumanka graduates in them. smile
  • Hermit21 5 May 2020 07: 42 New
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    Firstly, the Syrian army lacks modern radar systems that must transmit air defense systems. Secondly, the exact same situation is observed with modern automated control systems - their absence contributes to complete chaos during the operation of air defense. Thirdly, the personnel of the Syrian air defense are poorly trained, they are almost not trained to work with modern technology, and have a low level of discipline.


    I will not ask where it is picked from, but it is better to dig back. SAR air defense has long been associated with the air defense of our group, it has been modernized by us, in fact, it is managed by us, we train the personnel, it demonstrates an efficiency of at least 72% when repulsing attacks.

    It is very reckless and short-sighted to draw a conclusion about the curvature of the Syrians by 2 or 3 reliably destroyed by the "Shells". Although it is clear that the author simply adjusts the picture of the world to his wretched little world
  • Misha_an26 5 May 2020 10: 20 New
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    But I generally remember such an ancient expression: Technique in the hands of a fool is a piece of iron.
  • Chingachguk 5 May 2020 11: 35 New
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    This moment is very serious and not interesting -
    "Every failure of the Syrian air defense forces casts a shadow on Russian-made weapons: articles on the minuses of the Pantsir air defense system, their futility in front of Israeli aviation, etc. immediately appear in the world press. Even in the hands of inept arms, even the most effective weapons can lose their efficiency. "
  • Comrade Michael 5 May 2020 12: 05 New
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    I don’t have confidence if we face a strong and high-tech adversary, whether our hands will turn out to be quite skilled in the first stage ... I want to make a mistake of course.
    1. Interlocutor 5 May 2020 14: 50 New
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      And the enemy is so skillful and, most importantly, bold and motivated. First of all, it is necessary to determine the motivation for the attack. To "wrestle" somewhere in the vastness of a third country is from practice, "yes at a time" (patrols in Syria). To come up with new bombs - "yes at a time." But to attack a wolf against a wolf ... (sometimes the wolf cubs get "head")
      1. Comrade Michael 5 May 2020 15: 01 New
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        I generally appreciate ... And yes. The experience gained there is priceless. Will it spread widely, here's the question ....
  • Bersaglieri 5 May 2020 12: 23 New
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    This problem has been an “invariant” for 60+ years in the supply of weapons to gouging Arabs or Africans. If T-55 was supplied to Cubans or Vietnamese, for example, then they used them 100%, and the Arabs ... alas.
  • sevryuk 5 May 2020 13: 32 New
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    Quote: Rostislav Prokopenko
    It’s liquidated itself

    self-insulated ...))
  • Brigadier 5 May 2020 18: 05 New
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    "...and the Syrians are not able to master the armor delivered by Russia."

    Well, do not trust them anything, more complicated than a shovel, and everything will be in order.
  • military_cat 6 May 2020 08: 18 New
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    it's lively and big money
    Unless, of course, the delivery was made on credit, which is then written off.
  • Pilat2009 6 May 2020 13: 11 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx
    God, you and Ukrainians are to blame here ...
    Starodub, Simferopol, Makaryev, Kerch, Enikale, Tomsk, Krasnoyarsk, Rostov-on-Don, Molodechno (arranged by the Russian army).

    Sorry, but a century-long dislike of Jews is difficult to explain only by the illiteracy of Russian peasants
  • Dmitry V. 7 May 2020 10: 27 New
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    After all, every failure of the Syrian air defense forces casts a shadow on Russian-made weapons: articles on the minuses of the Pantsir air defense system, their uselessness in front of Israeli aviation, immediately appear in the world press. Caught in inept hands, even the most effective weapon can lose its effectiveness.

    Operation Medvedka 19 is the destruction of the Syrian air defense system in Lebanon.
    There were no regular Soviet units in Lebanon, however, the Syrian units stationed here had a significant number of Soviet military advisers and specialists who were directly involved in the hostilities [10]. The management of the Syrian army was carried out by Soviet generals and officers. The main military adviser and adviser to the Minister of Defense of Syria was Colonel General G.P. Yashkin, who had under the command of the Deputy Air Force Lieutenant General V. Sokolov, Air Defense - Lieutenant General K. Babenko, and EW - Major General Yu. Ulchenko. At all levels of command and control of the Syrian troops - from batteries and companies to the Syrian Ministry of Defense, there were thousands of Soviet officers [


    And the result?
    The group of Syrian troops that was in Lebanon at that time included four air defense brigades equipped with Soviet anti-aircraft missile systems Kub, S-75M Volga and S-125 M Pechora. On the night of June 9–10, 1982, the 82nd mixed anti-aircraft missile brigade and three anti-aircraft artillery regiments were additionally introduced into Lebanon [12]. Thus, 24 Syrian anti-aircraft missile battalions were deployed in combat order with a length of 30 km along the front and 28 km in depth.

    The destruction of Syrian air defense systems was carried out by ground-to-ground missiles [what?] And long-range and rocket artillery; in this case, ammunition was used that has the ability to aim at the target using a laser beam. 10-12 minutes after a missile strike on Syrian positions, a strike was carried out by forces of about 100 aircraft. Israeli aviation operated in groups of 2-6 fighter-bombers. They were equipped with special engines that did not leave a condensation trail [to clarify], which made visual detection difficult. They struck using conventional, cluster, ball and cumulative bombs, as well as guided and homing missiles AGM-78 "Standard-AWP", "Shrike", "Mayverik", specially modified for the operating frequencies of the Syrian radar. The remaining Syrian radar and launchers were destroyed from a distance of 60-80 km, exceeding the range of the Syrian anti-aircraft missiles of medium range. Syrian air defense system in Lebanon was almost completely destroyed


    But the density of the district’s air defense was unprecedented.
    Which did not stop her complete defeat.

    What this experience is talking about - if you do not replay the enemy tactically - is to sit and wait for you to be destroyed.
  • nnz226 9 May 2020 11: 55 New
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    A proverb since the USSR: "Technique in the hands of a barbarian - a piece of scrap metal!"
  • Cyril G ... Today, 08: 25 New
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    Quote: dvina71
    You about it

    Identify THIS is not a trivial matter ..