Military Review

The MMWT tank went into production. Turkey masters, Indonesia expects

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The MMWT tank went into production. Turkey masters, Indonesia expects

Experienced tank MMWT Turkish assembly. Photo FNSS / fnss.com.tr


In May 2015, Turkey and Indonesia signed an agreement on the joint development of a promising secondary tank Modern Medium Weight Tank (MMWT). Over the next few years, FNSS and PT Pindad prepared design documentation, built and tested experimental equipment, and organized serial production. The first production tanks of the new model were recently transferred to the Turkish army. In the near future, deliveries will continue, and Indonesia will receive its equipment.

According to the test results ...


Recall that the Turkish-Indonesian agreement appeared in the spring of 2015, and in the fall of 2016, the development companies first showed the layout of the future tank. In May 2017, a full-fledged prototype was demonstrated. Soon, the car was sent for tests that lasted more than a year.

In September 2018, FNSS announced the completion of major inspections. In particular, the tank confirmed full compliance with the requirements of the Indonesian army. In the near future, the signing of a contract for the assembly of the first production batch was expected. New orders were to follow.

In May 2019, the development companies signed an additional agreement on the mass production of MMWT. It stipulated the procedure for the production of individual components and assembly of equipment in two countries. According to foreign media reports, one of the main topics of the agreement was the transfer of a number of technologies to the Indonesian company PT Pindad.


The first Indonesian Harimau. Photo Bmpd.livejournal.com

At that time, the first contract with the Ministry of Defense of Indonesia was still missing. It was estimated that the army would order up to 20 tanks totaling $ 135 million. Later, an official order for 18 cars appeared. Deliveries of this equipment are planned for 2020-21.

Last year, a contract for the production of tanks for the Turkish army also appeared. The pre-production and first production armored vehicles were required to be transferred to the customer in 2019-2020. The appearance of new orders for large quantities of equipment.

Tank in production


Under the terms of the agreement on development and production, the release of new equipment will be carried out in two countries. MMWT tanks for Turkey should be assembled by FNSS. They will be adopted by the name of Kaplan (tour. "Tiger"). The PT Pindad plant will supply the equipment of the Indonesian army accordingly. These tanks received the name Harimau ("Tiger" in Indonesian).

In December 2019, FNSS transferred a pre-production batch of two Kaplan tanks to the Turkish army. In early February 2020, FNSS announced the start of mass production and the early delivery of vehicles to the troops. On March 23, the military department announced the receipt of the first production batch of six tanks. In the near future, the army will receive several more "Kaplan". Then work will begin on new contracts. The general requirements of the Turkish army for the number of medium tanks have not yet been specified.


Chassis MMWT assembly PT Pindad. Photo Defense-studies.blogspot.сom

The existing Indonesian contract provides for the delivery of 18 serial Harimau production tanks of local assembly. According to news In recent months, PT Pindad has already begun to fulfill this order, but the equipment is not yet ready for transfer to the troops. The first tanks will be delivered in 2020, and the delivery of the second batch is scheduled for the 2021st.

Future supplies


At different stages of development and preparation for production, it was claimed that Turkey and Indonesia could order a total of 200 to 400 medium tanks MMWT / Kaplan / Harimau. The exact number of equipment required has not yet been called, and it is entirely possible that it has not yet been determined.

The total volume of orders of the two countries will depend both on their desires and plans, and on economic opportunities. Turkey and Indonesia are faced with certain problems, because of which they can not acquire all the desired military equipment in any quantities. Actual production volumes will become clear only in the future. In the meantime, it is only about dozens of cars.

The MMWT project was developed based on the requirements of the Indonesian and Turkish army, but it took into account the possibility of future export deliveries. During past exhibitions, representatives of foreign armies studied the new tank and gave it their ratings. In one form or another, several countries showed interest in the car. In the future, this may lead to the emergence of new contracts.


Harimau at one of the exhibitions. Photo Mediaindonesia.com

In the fall of 2018, after testing was completed, Bangladesh and the Philippines expressed their interest in the MMWT. Then Brunei became interested in the machine. A year after this, in the fall of 2019, the Ghanaian army entered the circle of potential customers. It is possible that news about the launch of mass production will attract the attention of other countries wishing to update their armored fleet.

However, while the MMWT tanks were ordered only by the armies that had previously initiated their development. There are no other contracts, and negotiations with third countries are not reported. Thus, the real export prospects of Kaplan / Harimau remain uncertain. Interest in technology is present, but so far does not go into the plane of real orders.

Apparently, such a development of events is due to several factors. First of all, customers can be scared off by the high price of equipment. MMWT costs more than $ 6-6,5 million - too much for developing countries. In addition, several similar medium tanks are already available on the international market, and the customer has a choice. At the same time, there are not too many potential buyers, which enhances competition.

New medium


Turkish-Indonesian vehicle MMWT belongs to the conventional class of modern medium tanks. This is a medium-weight vehicle (no more than 32-35 tons) with a limited level of protection, high mobility and the maximum possible firepower. This technique is now being considered as an alternative to the main tanks, adapted to the conditions of low-intensity conflicts.


Experienced Indonesian tank at the parade. Photo PT Pindad / pindad.com

The Tiger of joint development was implemented using the solutions of previous Turkish projects. This is a machine with bulletproof armor (level 4 according to STANAG 4569) and the ability to install level 5 protection. Mine protection of the same levels is provided.

High mobility is provided by the 711-horsepower Caterpillar C13 diesel engine, automatic transmission and tracked undercarriage with torsion bar suspension. The maximum speed on the highway is 78 km / h, the range is 450 km.

The turret of the MMWT is equipped with a 105 mm Cockerill CT-CV 105HP high-pressure smoothbore gun with automatic loader. All 105 mm unitary shots that comply with NATO standards are allowed. Applied modern digital SLA with the ability to search and defeat targets day and night. Declared implementation of the hunter-killer principle. The gun is complemented by a coaxial machine gun.

Installation of an anti-tank missile system is planned. The first production Kaplans for Turkey are equipped with the Russian Kornet-E ATGM. In the future, it is planned to use the Turkish OMTAS complex. Harimau tanks for the Indonesian army should receive similar weapons.


Experienced Turkish Kaplan. Photo FNSS / fnss.com.tr

The crew of three people has a system of all-round visibility, its safety is ensured by the collective defense system against WMD. Declared automation of a number of processes, reducing the load on tankers.

On the battlefield, the MMWT tank must fight manpower, unprotected and lightly armored vehicles, as well as various structures. The ability to destroy medium and main tanks of obsolete models is provided. The potential to combat modern MBTs is very limited, however, such combat situations are not provided for by the basic concept.

Plans for the future


At the moment, the MMWT program can boast of notable successes, although not everything is going perfectly. Serial production of equipment for both developing countries has begun, and one of them has already received and is developing the first tanks. Another will begin updating the park only by the end of this year. Export prospects remain uncertain.

Turkey and Indonesia have already received the main result of the joint project. Tanks go to the army and increase their readiness for modern threats and challenges. Expected successes in the international market will be a pleasant addition to your own re-equipment.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 07: 23 New
    +1
    MMWT costs over $ 6-6,5 million - too much for developing countries
    Stunned, or the dollar fell in price, which is imperceptible in Russia, or the tank turned out to be very expensive.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 30 March 2020 07: 46 New
      -2
      Turkey and Indonesia signed an agreement on joint development of promising medium tank Modern Medium Weight Tank (MMWT).

      The whole world, one might say all the "trendsetters of the tank fashion" have long abandoned the division of tanks into categories by weight.
      And only the Turks with the Indonesians continue to follow the tradition (?) ...
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 08: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: Insurgent
        And only the Turks with the Indonesians continue to follow the tradition
        They her blinded from what was rethought and developed, in their own way. )))
        Turkish-indonesian machine MMWT relates to conditional class modern medium tanks
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 30 March 2020 09: 05 New
        +5
        Quote: Insurgent
        long ago abandoned the division of tanks into categories by weight.
        And only the Turks with the Indonesians continue to follow the tradition (?) ...

        It is not the Turks who follow the tradition ... these are the traditions "call things by their proper names!" ...
      3. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 March 2020 09: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: Insurgent
        The whole world, one might say all the "trendsetters of the tank fashion" have long abandoned the division of tanks into categories by weight.

        ?

        German middle


        american light
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 30 March 2020 09: 37 New
          -3
          Quote: Spade
          German middle

          Let me find out if this is a development based on the corresponding German infantry fighting vehicle, but with a different weapon structure and apparently preserved landing squad, then can it even be called a tank ?

          If you continue to reason like this, then you can obviously come to the conclusion that the BMP - 3 is also a tank ...

          Moreover, SUPER-TANK, with its 100mm gun + 30mm automatic gun ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 30 March 2020 09: 56 New
            +2
            Quote: Insurgent
            development based on the corresponding German BMP

            All "medium" are made on the basis of BMP. And the Germans, and South Koreans, and Singapore, and Turkey.
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent 30 March 2020 10: 01 New
              -3
              Quote: Spade
              All "medium" are made on the basis of BMP.



              You do not answer the main part of the question: Was the specifically presented "medium tank" based on the BMP "Marder" retained by the airborne squad ?

              If YES, then he is not a tank!

              And, Turkish-Indonesian MMWT, based on which BMP created?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 30 March 2020 10: 07 New
                +2
                Quote: Insurgent
                If YES, then he is not a tank!

                No, I didn’t.

                Quote: Insurgent
                And, Turkish-Indonesian MMWT, on the basis of which BMP is created?

                Kaplan-30 NGAFV

                1. Insurgent
                  Insurgent 30 March 2020 10: 11 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  No, I didn’t save

                  Well tady - a tank. Mediocre extra-systemic and extra-class.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 30 March 2020 10: 22 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Insurgent
                    Mediocre extra-systemic and extra-class.

                    Is not a fact...
                    Germans (already the second, the first in 1976 was a thirty-ton TAM for Argentina), South Koreans, Swedes, Singapore, Turkey-Indonesia ..
                    1. Insurgent
                      Insurgent 30 March 2020 10: 29 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Spade
                      Is not a fact...
                      Germans (already the second, the first in 1976 was a thirty-ton TAM for Argentina)

                      A 30-kilogram vehicle can be classified as MBT without inventing any special "niche" ...

                      "Naked" T-64, 36 tons ...

                      In this, I returned to where I started the comments ... The inventiveness of the Turks.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 March 2020 10: 32 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Insurgent
                        A 30-kilogram vehicle can be classified as MBT without inventing any special "niche" ...

                        But this is not "MBT".
                        This is in fact not even tanks, but BMWs, that is, combat vehicles with heavy weapons. Well, or fire support combat vehicles direct fire.
                        And their place in battle formations is not in front of the infantry, as in the MBT, but behind it.
                      2. Insurgent
                        Insurgent 30 March 2020 10: 42 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        This is in fact not even tanks, but BMWs, that is, combat vehicles with heavy weapons.

                        You think so, and I agree with you in something.

                        But the Turks, sir ... recourse

                        Turkey and Indonesia signed an agreement on joint development of promising medium tank Modern Medium Weight Tank (MMWT)


                        the army will order until 20 tanks


                        MMWT tanks FNSS should collect for Turkey. They will be adopted by the name of Kaplan (tour. "Tiger")
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 March 2020 12: 07 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Insurgent
                        But the Turks, sir.

                        And why are Turks worse than Poles?

                        In addition, do not forget that it was not the Turks, but the Belgians who made the Kaplan a tank, and John Cockerill has great experience in this area.



                        https://johncockerill.com/en/defense/
                      4. Saxahorse
                        Saxahorse 30 March 2020 22: 31 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Spade
                        And why are Turks worse than Poles?

                        You can also recall the Chinese "mountain" tank VT-5 aka "Type 15"

                        The trend however.
    2. Horst78
      Horst78 30 March 2020 12: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Insurgent
      Let me know if this is a development based on the corresponding German infantry fighting vehicle, but with a different composition of weapons

      On the basis of the German "Marder-1" was created the medium tank "TAM" of Argentina. They just slow down for 50 years.
  • withoutreverse
    withoutreverse 30 March 2020 08: 09 New
    +6
    "Recall that the Turkish-Indonesian agreement appeared in the spring of 2015, and in the fall of 2016, the development companies first showed a mock-up of the future tank. In May 2017, a demonstration of a full-fledged prototype took place. Soon, the car was sent for testing, which lasted more than a year."
    from ideas to implementation in the product ?? mdaa ...
    1. janeck
      janeck 30 March 2020 08: 13 New
      0
      also drew attention to the timing.
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 08: 41 New
      +1
      And what is it, the combat compartment (turret and turret) was taken ready, Belgian, the corps is also not surely designed from scratch, it is very BMP-shny, hence the timing.
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 March 2020 09: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: withoutreverse
      from ideas to implementation in the product ?? mdaa ...

      On the finished Kaplan-30 NGAFV infantry fighting vehicle, put the finished tower. In two years. This is quite a long time.
  • Paul Siebert
    Paul Siebert 30 March 2020 07: 34 New
    0
    Looked - like "Tiger"!
    Looked closely - "Kaplan".
    A new fashion has appeared. On tanks for third world countries.
    It is necessary for the Turks to fuss - Slip this bullshit.
    And Georgia.
    To storm Moscow. It will be interesting to see it ... laughing
    1. Cowbra
      Cowbra 30 March 2020 07: 49 New
      +5
      Quote: Paul Siebert
      Looked - like "Tiger"!
      Looked closely - "Kaplan".

      This is generally "hari-meow", hari krishna for fighting an armored personnel carrier winked 6 Lyam easier to buy ATGMs
      1. cost
        cost 30 March 2020 08: 09 New
        +3
        Looked - like "Tiger"!
        Looked closely - "Kaplan".

        Turkish Tiger - Kaplan
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 30 March 2020 09: 17 New
          +1
          Let them build - "not a candle to God, not a damn poker." So let him "run" at a speed of 70 km, an hour on the streets cluttered with debris, barricades, debris and other streets of destroyed cities, where the barrel of an anti-material rifle, grenade launcher or ATGM of the enemy sticks out of each window. Now we need heavily armored armed with a short-barreled large-caliber cannon-launcher paired with a 30 mm cannon and a large-caliber machine gun with high elevation angles.
  • Amateur
    Amateur 30 March 2020 07: 47 New
    +6
    Turkish-Indonesian vehicle MMWT belongs to the conventional class of modern medium tanks. ... This is a machine with bulletproof booking (level 4 according to STANAG 4569)

    Reference: bulletproof protection level 4 according to STANAG 4569: B-32 bullet of a cartridge of 14,5 mm x 114 at a distance of 200 meters at a meeting speed of 911 m / s, angle (direction) of approach of the bullet: 360 ° (round)
    To call a tank, and even medium, a piece of iron that can be penetrated from the KPVT from 200 meters, well, and probably a 30 mm burst of armor-piercing incendiary weapons from any reasonable distance - funny.
    BMP-3, almost twice as light, having stronger weapons and better protection - just BMP.
    Turkish armored vehicles are of course something. negative
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 30 March 2020 08: 54 New
      +7
      Well bet on electronics. Conditional T-55 can destroy this Tiger / Kaplan at any battle distance. The 105mm Belgian cocker will also pierce virtually any modern tank.

      However, in theory, the electronics, the interaction, the multi-mode complex of the gunner and commander will make it possible to detect the T-55 or another tank first and destroy it.

      Ballistic reservation is now possible in narrow sectors and not against the most modern shells.

      Here the Turks decided to build the car like that, with a reservation against an accidental cart or a grenade launcher babakh + good protection from undermining. They scored the rest, distributing resources on electronics, driving performance. The Indonesians liked it; they ordered the replacement of the AMX-13 and partly the PT-76 not from the marines.
      1. Amateur
        Amateur 30 March 2020 09: 19 New
        0
        against a random cart or grenade launcher

        On jihadmobiles are (judging by the TV) something like a DShK. From RPG armor and abruptly will not save. But that is not the point. Call it average tank - well, no shame or conscience.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 30 March 2020 09: 55 New
          +4
          Quote: Amateur
          To call THIS a medium tank - well, no shame or conscience.

          What to call?
          The Indonesian light tank is 8-16 tons. Indonesian MBT is over 60 tons.
          1. Amateur
            Amateur 30 March 2020 09: 59 New
            -2
            What to call?

            Türkiye arba.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 March 2020 09: 47 New
        +4
        Quote: donavi49
        However, in theory, the electronics, the interaction, the multi-mode complex of the gunner and commander will make it possible to detect the T-55 or another tank first and destroy it.

        All this can only work in a conventional "duel situation" on no less conventional ideal terrain.
        In real life, everything is more complicated, and the Turks already have the experience of losing much more heavily protected "Leopards". As soon as the enemy has an additional fighter with half of binoculars and a radio station from Alibaba, everything starts to change
        And, for example, Turkish tanks simply have no chance against a complex of French Jaguar and Leclerc.

        Quote: donavi49
        Indonesians liked

        The Indonesians were initially looking for a lighter tank than the Leopards purchased and upgraded by the Germans.
        Moreover, Turkey was not the only option. The most adequate is German. Because besides the "Leopards", the Indonesians also bought the BMP "Marder". There was a South Korean K21-105, there was a Singaporean, which took part in the American competition ...
        But they chose Turkey, apparently in order to "support the domestic producer" (c)
    2. missuris
      missuris April 1 2020 13: 20 New
      0
      the 14.5mm you compare is a spherical defense, the BMP-3 has a 12.7mm spherical defense with 200m, the frontal armor and the BMP-3 and MMWT hold 30mm.
      MMWT has a stronger gun, it has a 105 mm high ballistic gun, it is logical that it is heavier than a thin 100 mm BMP-3 low ballistic gun.
  • Klingon
    Klingon 30 March 2020 09: 29 New
    +4
    Quote: Snail N9
    Let them build - "not a candle to God, not a damn poker." So let him "run" at a speed of 70 km, an hour on the streets cluttered with debris, barricades, debris and other streets of destroyed cities, where the barrel of an anti-material rifle, grenade launcher or ATGM of the enemy sticks out of each window. Now we need heavily armored armed with a short-barreled large-caliber cannon-launcher paired with a 30 mm cannon and a large-caliber machine gun with high elevation angles.

    * a large-caliber launcher mounted in conjunction with a 30 mm cannon * - do you propose to mount a turret from the BMP-3 on the T-72? laughing
    Well, yes there are. similar. BMPT are called. Nobody wants to take except Kazakhs.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 30 March 2020 09: 40 New
      0
      No, you need a cannon with a caliber of at least 152 mm to knock down the wall of the house with one shot. And besides, the tower from the BMP-3 is a "gallows tin" in terms of armor protection.
      1. Bormanxnumx
        Bormanxnumx 30 March 2020 11: 47 New
        +1
        Regarding the collapse of the walls .... Famous photo of 600mm shell hit by self-propelled gun "Qiu" in Hotel Warszawa
        It looks impressive.
        And the ending turned out to be "watery" repeat
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 March 2020 10: 05 New
      +7
      Quote: Klingon
      to fasten a tower from BMP-3 to T-72?

    3. core
      core 31 March 2020 21: 11 New
      0
      not from a great mind. (do not want to take)
  • Klingon
    Klingon 30 March 2020 09: 59 New
    +2
    Quote: Snail N9
    No, you need a cannon with a caliber of at least 152 mm to knock down the wall of the house with one shot. And besides, the tower from the BMP-3 is a "gallows tin" in terms of armor protection.

    I just exaggerated,)) 152 mm you do not put on a very mobile machine. a machine with such a gun and even paired with 30mm with good armor will pull under 60t. here a compromise is needed and this compromise was reproduced on BMPT. and the wall of the house and a rocket with the corresponding high-explosive warhead can be destroyed. and indeed why bring down the walls, you can flush the thermobaric ammunition into the window. All that is needed is a good modern SLA with thermal imagers, panoramic sights, etc.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 30 March 2020 10: 08 New
      +3
      I did not write that you need to install something like a "Krupp-Schneider howitzer" is quite suitable and a "medium pressure" weapon such as that which was in the "Sheridan" and in the M60A1E2 and the shells for such a gun may be less thick filling explosives and submunitions. I saw a lot of firing from 125 mm cannons on the walls of buildings - there is no such thing "to fall off with one shot" there, not even a hint. In addition, a tank gun cannot shoot along a "steep trajectory", hit targets behind houses, etc. This requires a high elevation angle and a variable charge. Only a short-barreled weapon of low and medium ballistics can provide this. Shooting at targets hidden behind houses is of great relevance now, due to the possibility of adjusting it with the help of drones. And by the way, the weight under 60 tons is not a hindrance, the car must be seriously protected.
    2. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber 17 September 2020 14: 15 New
      0
      You won't put 152 mm on a very mobile machine

      On the M551 "General Sheridan" - a very light tank even for its already ancient time - it stood and worked quite well ... wink
  • Klingon
    Klingon 30 March 2020 10: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Klingon
    to fasten a tower from BMP-3 to T-72?


    someone has already thought of it, offset! lol drinks
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 30 March 2020 14: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: Klingon
      someone has already thought of it, offset! lol

      By the way, this BMPT has weapons like the BMP-3, but its own tower, more protected:
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 31 March 2020 00: 34 New
        +1
        BMPT projects were several and very interesting, a couple of prototypes were built, but not a single one went into the series ((
  • Klingon
    Klingon 30 March 2020 10: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: Snail N9
    I did not write that you need to install something like a "Krupp-Schneider howitzer" is quite suitable and a "medium pressure" weapon such as that which was in the "Sheridan" and in the M60A1E2 and the shells for such a gun may be less thick filling explosives and submunitions. I saw a lot of firing from 125 mm cannons on the walls of buildings - there is no such thing "to fall off with one shot" there, not even a hint. In addition, a tank gun cannot shoot along a "steep trajectory", hit targets behind houses, etc. This requires a high elevation angle and a variable charge. Only a short-barreled weapon of low and medium ballistics can provide this. Shooting at targets hidden behind houses is of great relevance now, due to the possibility of adjusting it with the help of drones. And by the way, the weight under 60 tons is not a hindrance, the car must be seriously protected.

    I don’t understand why you needed to bring down the walls? they will fall above and the tunnel below will remain. it is possible to smoke broads from houses with thermobaric ammunition, and if walls need to be felled, aviation exists for this
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 30 March 2020 10: 46 New
      +3
      It’s necessary to bring down the walls according to the experience of the assault group battles even during the Second World War. A collapsed wall destroyed ALL firing points in the building on the side of the house from the attic to the basement (the loopholes loosed up with debris). By destroying the machine gun in the attic it was possible to get a faust from the basement or basement. The fighting in Grozny only confirmed this. Nothing has changed in this regard to this day.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 March 2020 12: 09 New
        +4
        Quote: Snail N9
        It’s necessary to bring down the walls according to the experience of the assault group battles even during the Second World War. A collapsed wall destroyed ALL the firing points in the building on the side of the house from the attic to the basement (the loopholes loosed with debris).

        ... and did not allow the technique to advance to the next object of attack.
        The Germans in Stalingrad on this, in fact, got burned.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 30 March 2020 12: 38 New
          +1
          Not on this one. They got burnt on the total destruction of the city and all the streets with massive bombardments and shelling. A collapsed wall develops in front of the house and at a short distance from it. A completely destroyed house by a direct hit covers all the streets that are around it. Not to mention the fact that the massive bombing of Stalingrad all this rubbish was repeatedly mixed, completely eliminating any passages for armored vehicles. Read about the tactics of the assault groups of the SA when capturing fortress cities in Germany - only the destruction of the external walls precluded the destruction of the advancing Soviet armored vehicles from the guns and faunas located in the lower and basement floors of the buildings.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 30 March 2020 12: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: Snail N9
            A collapsed wall develops in front of the house and at a short distance from it.

            Cluttering the street. In Komsomolsky, even with a one-story building, such sites were

            Quote: Snail N9
            Read about the tactics of the assault groups of the SA when capturing fortress cities in Germany - only the destruction of the external walls precluded the destruction of the advancing Soviet armored vehicles from the guns and faunas located in the lower and basement floors of the buildings.

            You seem to be confusing "blowing up the outer walls" with creating paths for assault teams. The method, which was actively used by both ours and the Americans and the British. But the tactics of dealing with such methods just provided for the detonation of large land mines. Which not only destroyed the assault groups, but also created a blockage in the path of the following.
        2. core
          core 31 March 2020 21: 24 New
          0
          fencing machine. hang a bucket on the MBT, and voila, you can't even hang additional protection modules on these "medium" ones.
      2. Klingon
        Klingon 30 March 2020 14: 28 New
        +2
        so the building is ironed and so good. Why then, until now, no one has considered it necessary to develop such heavily armored vehicles with a short-barreled 152 + 30mm twin caliber, if it were so effective and had no shortcomings?
      3. sen
        sen 31 March 2020 06: 35 New
        +1
        When assaulting cities during the Second World War, of all types of artillery, the RS assault groups were the most effective (rockets were carried on hand and installed, as is, in the factory packaging, using improvised means). M-20 rockets launched directly from window openings from a distance of 200-300 m, 31 mm broke through brickwork 80 cm thick and bursting inside (warhead weight 52,4 kg) brought down internal walls, floor and ceiling.
  • Incompetent
    Incompetent 30 March 2020 10: 43 New
    +8
    You are interesting people. When it comes to the Baikal 57mm module, it is "a formidable weapon that, if bursting at 120 rounds / min, will even hit the tank, then it will not seem a little to him and knocks down all its equipment."
    And as this medium tank with a 105 mm gun and a drum + good armor and excellent mobility of 78 km / h, then "it was the Turks who blinded it from what was," and generally not a tank, but garbage.
    It doesn’t matter what kind of equipment the TT, ST, BMP or others are. If they meet on the battlefield and this Turkish ST gives the line for any TT from it, only the box with the crew will remain!
    That is why your objectivity is included only in friends of Russia, but how can enemies be thrown with hats?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 March 2020 12: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Incompetent
      When it comes to the Baikal 57mm module

      Quote: Incompetent
      And how is this medium tank with a 105 mm gun

      The "Baikal" module is not installed on tanks
      1. Incompetent
        Incompetent 30 March 2020 14: 26 New
        +3
        you do not understand my promise .. in battle it will not matter what the TT will fire! An infantry fighting vehicle with Baikal or a Turkish CT, after a hit from the TT, there will remain an unworkable box with the crew. So the Turkish CT has certain advantages, it is very agile and rapid-firing, so you should not laugh at their product, but recognize that this is at least a good product!
    2. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 30 March 2020 14: 45 New
      +4
      At least someone is objective in their views. And then some of the local iksperds did not give a damn so much that the drooling ended. sad
    3. core
      core 31 March 2020 21: 30 New
      0
      What is the turn of a 100 mm gun?
      1. Incompetent
        Incompetent 31 March 2020 23: 33 New
        +1
        Conditional queue, there is a drum in the same place, which means a few seconds to reload ... it’s not known how many shells the drum
    4. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 31 March 2020 22: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Incompetent
      And as this medium tank with a 105 mm gun and a drum + good armor and excellent mobility of 78 km / h, then "it was the Turks who blinded it from what was," and generally not a tank, but garbage.

      for me personally, such a concept also matters, but the execution is a big question. Too bulky, controversial decision with a huge front lower base line and a huge tail at the tower.
      For me, Octopus-D will be better, although it can be attributed to light tanks ...
      1. Incompetent
        Incompetent 31 March 2020 23: 38 New
        +1
        Well, probably .. The octopus is also airborne, the armor is also bulletproof, and the gun is more powerful, only the rate of fire is 7 rounds per minute, and the Turkish has a drum!
        1. 4thParasinok
          4thParasinok April 1 2020 15: 26 New
          0
          Quote: Incompetent
          The octopus is also airborne, the armor is also bulletproof, and the gun is more powerful, only the rate of fire is 7 rounds per minute, and the Turkish has a drum!

          I don’t know about the Turkish drum, I was not interested, but Octopus is much more difficult to detect, especially when it lays on the ground, and even aiming at the Tiger is many times easier and faster .... Do you need to explain?
          1. Incompetent
            Incompetent April 1 2020 19: 36 New
            0
            It’s clearly more a silhouette is easier to get into, although now they write that with modern types of aiming, the silhouette does not have the same meaning as before.
            But what I don’t understand is related to another topic https://topwar.ru/169564-v-kitajskom-sina-zajavili-chto-razgadali-zagadku-raspolozhenija-raket-vo-vnutrennih-otsekah-su-57.html # comment-id-10275389
            "I do not understand why aircraft cannot attack targets located at the height below?"
            1. 4thParasinok
              4thParasinok April 2 2020 00: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Incompetent
              It is clearly more silhouette easier to hit

              It’s also easier to detect
  • Klingon
    Klingon 30 March 2020 14: 33 New
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Incompetent
    When it comes to the Baikal 57mm module

    Quote: Incompetent
    And how is this medium tank with a 105 mm gun

    The "Baikal" module is not installed on tanks

    and who prevents to finalize it and put on the T-72 of which we have heaps ?? it would be possible to make a sort of a new Dreshmashin of the type as ZSU-57-2 only well-armored with modern LMS and with petro
    1. Incompetent
      Incompetent 30 March 2020 14: 58 New
      -1
      So did the BMPT Terminator and even 10 pieces in the troops
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 March 2020 15: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Klingon

      and who prevents to finalize it and put on the T-72 of which we have heaps ??

      Common sense. Why do we need a weakened tank?
  • Maxwrx
    Maxwrx 30 March 2020 14: 41 New
    +1
    I do not understand why it is impossible to make an updated analogue of the T55 with a 125mm gun. No, they build tanks of much larger dimensions with bulletproof armor, with a 105mm gun. And not only the Turks, but also China and other countries. Really, what are they guided by, can someone clearly explain?
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 30 March 2020 16: 31 New
      +2
      Now they are not arming in the classical form, as we are accustomed to. At the moment, after the development of precise weapons and missile control systems, optics and electronics, early warning systems, etc., tanks, planes, drones, helicopters .. and. .d are considered as a platform carrier of smart rockets, systems and weapons. For example, we cannot imagine that an airplane or an unmanned aerial vehicle should have 200-500 mm reservations, since it will not fly due to weight. But their strength is not the armor, and in precision armament, and in some systems are sewn up. The ground tracked and wheeled vehicles are also moving towards this now, slowly, but moving.
      1. Maxwrx
        Maxwrx 30 March 2020 17: 18 New
        +2
        This is understandable, previously discovered, before struck, mobility. But why is a complete absence of armor from at least 30mm shells allowed? According to the battle statistics, the main losses are caused by BMPs equipped with + \ - the same bulletproof armor
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 30 March 2020 19: 13 New
          +1
          https://www.army-technology.com/projects/kaplan-mt-modern-medium-weight-tank/
          This article says:
          KAPLAN MT Self-Defense Features
          The MMWT provides ballistic protection for the STANAG 4569 Level 4 against 14,5 mm armored shells and 155 mm fragmentation shells. ---------- It can withstand the explosion of 10 kg of TNT under the track and the bottom of the body .----------

          Additional armor can be installed on the tank to increase protection to level 5 STANAG 4569 to withstand damage from 25 mm penetration of armor, dropping sniper shells (APDS-T).

          KAPLAN MT is also equipped with smoke grenade launchers, a chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear defense (CBRN) system and a laser warning system to increase survivability against hostile threats.
          As you can see, on the basic version, the armor withstands 14,5 mm, and the full version keeps a blow of 25 mm.
          At the same time, along with other systems, it is also very well protected against mine detonation.
        2. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 30 March 2020 19: 40 New
          +1
          The Turks have another cool Tulpar family of tracked vehicles, which has a similar Kaplan tank in testing, but for me it’s more attractive and maneuverable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvTvTHLm74
          Another interesting fact is that in addition to the crew they carry a small landing of 2 people.
  • mvg
    mvg 30 March 2020 19: 15 New
    +2
    Where are the cons put here? I am not writing about the “brake”, because the author -> author -> author is not the first to do this. But explain how you can read nonsense? As usual with repetitions in the 3rd knee. For such original ones, in quotation marks, aftors, you need to turn off the keyboard shortcuts
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 30 March 2020 22: 17 New
    +2
    The Turks put on this tank a very modern Belgian cannon.
    She is no worse than the famous English L7.
  • Klingon
    Klingon 31 March 2020 00: 31 New
    +2
    Quote: Incompetent
    So did the BMPT Terminator and even 10 pieces in the troops

    BMPT Terminator spark 30mm and I mean 57mm spark as on ZSU-57-2.
    In addition, no one wants to buy Terminators. Only Kazakhs bought a few pieces and that's it