Hide and find. Some features of F-22A and Su-57 fighters


F-22A at the airport. Photo US Air Force


Modern and promising 5th generation fighter jets have a number of important requirements. In particular, they address stealth issues and detection systems. A modern fighter must notice and attack the enemy long before they detect him. In this context, we can consider the leading fighters of leading countries - the American F-22A and the Russian Su-57.

American superiority


In the promotional materials for the Lockheed Martin F-22A project, the numerous advantages of this aircraft over another aviation technology, which ensures complete superiority. Consider the arguments behind such advertising.

The modern ideology of the development of tactical aviation in the United States provides for the maximum reduction in aircraft visibility through the use of the so-called stealth technology. F-22A has special contours and airframe design, special nozzles, etc. Due to this, allegedly, it was possible to sharply reduce the effective scattering area and thermal radiation - reducing visibility for radar and infrared detection tools.


Su-57 is taking off. Photo UAC / uacrussia.ru

The exact values ​​of the EPR and other parameters, for obvious reasons, are not published, but there are different estimates. Among Russian researchers, the version about EPR at the level of 0,3 sq.m. is popular. In foreign sources, based on Lockheed-Martin materials, it is indicated that at some angles the EPR drops to 1-2 sq.cm. It should be remembered that the actual value of such a parameter may depend on a number of factors. In addition, in certain situations, the aircraft can be equipped with reflectors that mask its real characteristics.

Measures have been taken to reduce thermal radiation. First of all, these are special flat nozzles of the engines that reduce the temperature of the exhaust gases. During high-speed flight, the leading edges of the glider are heated. A special cooling system is provided for this case. The exact parameters of infrared radiation are unknown, but a number of sources claim that the aircraft is maximally protected from missiles with IKGSN.


Glider F-22A has a characteristic shape; the same applies to the nozzle part of the engines. Wikimedia Commons Photos

The primary means of detection on an F-22A aircraft is the Northrop Grumman / Raytheon AN / APG-77 airborne radar. The station with AFAR has an instrumental range of more than 520 km. The detection distance depends on the parameters of a specific target. Large targets with large EPR are detected at a distance of 400 km. With an EPR of 1 square meter, the range drops to 220-240 km, with 0,1 square meter - 110-120 km. The station accompanies 100 targets and provides firing of 20.

The radar is supplemented by an ALR-94 radiation warning system (STR), capable of catching locator signals at ranges of more than 400-450 km.


AFAR from the radar AN / APG-77. Wikimedia Commons Photos

It is curious that the radar AN / APG-77 also contributes to the stealth of the aircraft. It has an LPI (Low Probability of Intercept) mode of operation with a special configuration of the emitted signals. It is alleged that the STR of the enemy aircraft cannot correctly identify such radiation and warn the pilot about the threat.

Russian advantages


It is known that in the Russian Su-57 project various solutions were actively used to reduce visibility in all main ranges. At the same time, the results of such measures, as in the case of the F-22A, are classified. Even the main characteristics of this kind were not disclosed, which is why for the time being we have to deal exclusively with assessments of varying degrees of credibility.

Due to the design and shape of the glider, the EPR of a Russian aircraft, according to various sources, ranges from 0,1 to 1 sq.m. Earlier in foreign publications, EPR up to 2-3 square meters was mentioned, which does not look plausible. In all likelihood, the stealth issues of the aircraft are solved in such a way that the least EPR is present when irradiating from the front hemisphere, i.e. when approaching the enemy.


The Pratt & Whitney F119 engine features a characteristic nozzle that reduces gas temperature. Wikimedia Commons Photos

Unlike the F-22A, the Russian Su-57 has nozzles of circular engines with a full-fledged controlled thrust vector. It is assumed that this does not reduce thermal radiation, however, there is no exact information on this subject. There is information on measures to reduce the temperature of reactive gases and, as a consequence, on reducing the visibility for IKGSN.

Su-57 is equipped with radar H036 "Squirrel" with several AFAR located in different parts of the airframe. Used the "traditional" nose antenna, as well as devices in the leading edge and wingtips, operating in different ranges. Due to this, a circular view is provided at ranges of up to hundreds of kilometers, allowing timely notice of air targets.

According to well-known data, Belka detects objects with EPR of the order of 3 square meters at ranges of 400 km. For EPR = 1 sq. M, this parameter is reduced to 300 km. From a distance of 165 km, a target is detected with an EPR of 0,1 sq.m. Other radar parameters are unknown.


Nasal AFAR from the Russian radar N036. Wikimedia Commons Photos

Unlike the F-22A, the Su-57 has an optical-location station. The OLS-50M product is capable of finding targets by their thermal radiation at distances of tens of kilometers. In this case, the aircraft does not unmask itself by the radiation of its radar. The optical-location station is included in the aiming and navigation complex and can provide data for firing.

Hide and find


Available data on the characteristics of the equipment and its components suggest that the American F-22A fighter in ideal conditions is able to notice the radio signals of the Russian Su-57 at distances of more than 400 km. However, the detection and tracking of the AN / APG-77 airborne radar is possible only at shorter distances - of the order of 110-120 km with oncoming courses. At the same time, the F-22A will already be able to launch long-range missiles.

In similar conditions, the potential of the Su-57 is at least not lower. The exact parameters of his electronic intelligence systems are unclear, but it can be assumed that it is possible to detect other people's signals at distances of hundreds of kilometers. Further, the question of distances depends on the real characteristics of the equipment of the probable enemy.


Antenna device for mounting in a slat. Wikimedia Commons Photos

If the estimates of Russian experts are correct, and the EPR of the F-22A fighter can really reach 0,3 sq. M, then the H036 radar will notice it from a distance of at least 160-200 km. However, it is impossible to completely exclude the possibility of reducing the EPR to 1-2 sq.cm in some conditions. In this case, the detection and tracking range can be drastically reduced. It should be taken into account that the “Squirrel” has several modules of different ranges that complement each other. It is quite possible that one AFAR will be able to notice a target earlier than another and provide the maximum possible detection range.

In certain situations, the Su-57 may have an advantage over the F-22A due to the presence of an OLS. However, such a system in range does not exceed the main radar and therefore is, rather, an additional means of detection.

Who will win?


As you can see, the leading countries used in their advanced projects all the basic ideas and solutions related to issues of visibility and detection. It is assumed that due to this, the Su-57 and F-22A will be able to go unnoticed for as long as possible, but timely detect the enemy and be the first to carry out a missile attack.


Optical location station for Su-57. Photo by Vitalykuzmin.net

Available data show that both aircraft have one or another advantage over each other, which can at any time affect the outcome of the battle. However, the results of the battle are determined not only by issues of stealth and detection systems. Important or even decisive factors may be the characteristics of weapons, communication and command and control systems, the level of training of pilots, etc.

However, the presence of such factors does not detract from the importance of the aircraft’s own characteristics. And in this regard, as we see, the Su-57 and F-22A are advanced developments with high parameters and wide capabilities.
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  1. YOUR 6 March 2020 05: 57 New
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    Available data show that both aircraft have one or another advantage over each other, which can at any time affect the outcome of the battle.

    I will add. The difference between them is that the F-22 has been in operation since 2005. Unfortunately, the Su-57 is so far only in the arming projects. And it is stretched over 10 years of supply of 76 units.
    1. Zaurbek 6 March 2020 08: 07 New
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      ... and I’ll add, AFAR is already in serial production on both F-16 and F15. In large quantities, and do not forget about the F-35. And their number.
      1. Nikolay3 8 March 2020 04: 12 New
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        The American company Lockheed-Martin consciously, for advertising purposes, gives the lowest possible peak, under ideal conditions from a certain direction, the image intensifier tube (effective reflective surface) F-22 equal to 0,0001 square meters. meter (Hornet EOP) in the front hemisphere, which is an incorrect EOP parameter, the average value of the image intensifier, in this case in the front hemisphere, is taken for calculations. They also announced the F-35 image intensifier equal to 0,005 square meters. meter (EOP crow), which is an incorrect EOP parameter, the average value of the EOP, in this case in the front hemisphere, is taken for calculations. According to Russian experts, average the value of the image intensifier F-22 is 0,3-0,5 square meters. meter. Given that the F-35 image intensifier is larger than the -22 image intensifier and the stealth is worse, we choose the image intensifier factor = 0,3 sq. For the calculation. meter. And the image intensifier = 0,5 square meters is chosen for the calculation of the Su-57 and the image intensifier = 1,5 square meters. meters for the Su-35S.
        1. Radar N035 "Irbis" with PFAR Su-35S detects targets with an EOP = 3 square meters at a distance of D = 400 km, and F-22 (F-35) at a distance of D = 224,937 km.
        2. Radar N036 "Squirrel" with AFAR Su-57 detects a target with an image intensifier = 1 square meter at a distance of D = 400 km, and F-22 (F-35) at a distance of D = 296,033 km.
        3. Radar AN / APG-77 with AFAR F-22 (AN / APG-81 with AFAR F-35) detects a target with an image intensifier = 1,2 sq. meters at a distance of D = 241 km, а Su-57 at a distance of D = 193,626 km.
        4. AN / APG-77 radar with AF-F-22 (AN / APG-81 with AF-F-35) detects a target with an image intensifier = 1,2 sq. Meters at a distance of D = 241 km, and Su-35S at a distance of D = 254,827 km.
        Note: in some technical literature for US radar, a target detection range with an image intensifier of 3 square meters is given. meter D = 300 km in the front hemisphere, which when converted gives the detection of targets with an image intensifier = 1 square meter at a distance of D = 227,951 km, Su-35S at a range of D = 252,269 km,but Su-57 at a distance of D = 191,683 km.
        The Russian Squirrel N036 radar is superior to the US radar in terms of detection range, which allows the Russian Su-57 to detect US fighters earlier and is guaranteed to destroy them with an R-37M air-to-air missile up to 120 km of the long-range AIM-180 missile.
        All calculations are for free space.
        Russian radar systems are not inferior in interference immunity to American radar systems, if not superior.
        These calculations are approximate according to open data on the Internet!
        1. Nikolay3 8 March 2020 04: 26 New
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          В Wikipedia written nonsense about the detection range D = 500 km US radar and about the LP mode - detection range in LP mode.
          1. Nikolay3 8 March 2020 04: 35 New
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            LPI mode for detection distances has nothing to do with the maximum or working radar detection distances. because it is determined by other parameters (processing noise-like signals).
            The maximum distance in theory is up to 55 km, in real life less than 50 km. in the complete absence of jamming by the enemy, because This mode is very sensitive to noise..
            This distance is on the border of the detection distance of an aircraft operating in LPI by means of optoelectronic target search. For fighters of the last generation, it approaches 60-70 km. for subtle targets in the infrared range.
            This mode is convenient to sneak up to the enemy’s newest aircraft, while remaining invisible. When meeting with an aircraft that has a modern detection OEC, as well as with the operation of electronic warfare systems, all its advantage is reduced to zero.
    2. I should add that available data taken from advertising booklets and each Kulik praises his swamp so much!)
      1. fk7777777 30 March 2020 13: 12 New
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        Yeah, t-34, cool, ...
    3. Private-K 6 March 2020 10: 57 New
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      In the same logical paradigm, you can also add that the strength of F22A will be annually to decline, Su-57annually rise.
      And you can add that F-22A no longer do and they can’t, and the Su-57 is fresh, it is made and, in the future, he will only improve.
      1. Private-K 7 March 2020 10: 02 New
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        Oho-hoyushki! What an emotional butt wassat experience minusers from the commonplace hi logic and truth!
        Well, really F22 are not produced and will not be produced. request
        Well, indeed, their number is constantly decreasing - already minus 30 cars from built serial ones. request
        Well, indeed, the Su57 is newer, more advanced and will be built for many more years ... laughing
        Awful truth. hi
      2. voyaka uh 7 March 2020 13: 18 New
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        If the number of F-22 will decrease at the same rate as the number
        Su-57 increase, then their number will be equal in 50 years.
        1. Private-K 7 March 2020 22: 22 New
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          Quote: voyaka uh
          If the number of F-22 will decrease at the same rate as the number
          Su-57 increase, then their number will be equal in 50 years.

          Not. Judging by the rate of cannibalization and the impossibility of replacement - in 10 years it will be equal. The Russian Federation will have brand new airplanes with a full service package, and the amers will have half-dead junk in which no one fumbles for everyone who has been collecting for a long time in retirement.
          1. voyaka uh 7 March 2020 23: 01 New
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            How many years do not produce new B-52?
            And how many are in service?
            Special cannibalism is not observed.

            There are 5 complete F-22 squadrons of 24 aircraft.
            The sixth squadron was disbanded.
            ----
            Everyone is waiting for the brand new Su-57 "board number 2". With a full service package.
            1. Private-K 9 March 2020 10: 05 New
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              Quote: voyaka uh
              How many years do not produce new B-52?
              And how many are in service?
              Special cannibalism is not observed.


              Of the 744 built, 70 are in service. Allegedly. How many flies and how much can be raised during mobilization is unknown.
              After the series was built, the Boeing did not disassemble the equipment. I did not disperse the technical staff. Not reprofiled the rest. And the new effective Lockheed Martin managers did just that. Considering that the average age of technical personnel in assembling and debugging aircraft for fifty dollars or more, all these people are already old and retired. Competencies are lost.
              After the construction of serial B-52s, Boeing and allies continued the mass production of the entire range of components. In the case of F22, this is also not.
              The very status of a strategic bomber, the plans that the Air Force and the US Government built on its availability, categorically determined its Status as the most important component of air power. As a direct consequence - the attention paid to the B52 has always been paramount.
              Unlike. F22 was not recognized as the plane that the US government wanted. That is the BASIC reason. Aircraft manufacturers and component manufacturers are not interested in maintaining the capacities and expensive technical staff for an aircraft that has no prospects and whose equipment is not unified with other serial aircraft. Therefore: equipment in warehouses, technical staff nafig from the site.
              This is all true. All this is true. And your giggles are just emotional splashes.

              There are 5 complete F-22 squadrons of 24 aircraft.
              The sixth squadron was disbanded.

              This is the true indicator - the amount of F-22 is steadily declining; and many of the formally combatant aircraft cannibalized.

              Everyone is waiting for the brand new Su-57

              If your agents of influence in the power structures of the Russian Federation do not work, then the Su-57 will be released tomorrow. And it will be a promising fighter number 1 in the world.
          2. voyaka uh 8 March 2020 11: 11 New
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            "amers have a half-dead trash in which no one fumbles for all who collected long time ago on retirement" ///
            ---
            This is the case in Russia: if the old locksmith Vasily retires, it’s a disaster, because no one knows how to grind a file after assembly. laughing
            1. Private-K 9 March 2020 10: 08 New
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              When the old locksmith retires, it doesn’t matter what his name is - Ivan, John, Jean - the production problems WILL be.
              You live under capitalism. Everything that does not bring profit, and even pulls the cost of maintenance, should be annihilated. This is the LAW OF BUSINESS.
              If a Jew does not understand this, then he is twice durak.
              1. voyaka uh 9 March 2020 11: 06 New
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                "When the old locksmith retires, it doesn’t matter what his name is - Ivan, John, Jean - the production problems WILL BE" ///
                ----
                This means that production is poorly organized. Any specialist, anywhere should be insured equal in ability.
                And there should not be a single "personal" secret of the nikago Ivan, John. All technical documentation must be digitized and stored on the network. Including the smallest nuances.
                And whoever does not understand this, he wink ... lives in the last century
            2. _Ugene_ April 4 2020 15: 29 New
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              This is the case in Russia: if the old locksmith Vasily retires - a disaster

              you will not believe, but even in the country you deify, such problems are not uncommon - https://topwar.ru/169803-kak-sverhsekretnyj-material-fogbank-zatormozil-modernizaciju-jadernogo-oruzhija-ssha.html
          3. TANKISTONE 9 March 2020 15: 24 New
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            Private-K (Oleg) ... for all who collected a long time ago in retirement.

            This trend is observed not only in the military-industrial complex.
            For some time now I have been observing the replacement of the old guard - pensioners by young theoretician managers.
            1. Private-K 10 March 2020 08: 03 New
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              Seven strictly perpendicular lines? An expert is really needed here.
        2. Tuzik 8 March 2020 00: 47 New
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          Quote: voyaka uh
          If the number of F-22 will decrease at the same rate as the number
          Su-57 increase, then their number will be equal in 50 years.

          good
        3. fk7777777 30 March 2020 13: 12 New
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          You know better from the obstetrician’s office - the pipe layer, ...
    4. Viktor Sergeev 6 March 2020 11: 42 New
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      The difference is that F22 will soon exhaust the resource, there will be no new production. Many US exploitation brought this miracle? Fight old F15 and F16.
      A plane released later is better than before, unless it is an F35.
    5. 5-9
      5-9 6 March 2020 14: 53 New
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      On the other hand, they have worn out, some have crashed, and the outdated element base should already be replaced ....
      1. fk7777777 30 March 2020 13: 13 New
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        In color, everything aah, copper ...
  2. Ka-52 6 March 2020 06: 02 New
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    It has an LPI (Low Probability of Intercept) mode of operation with a special configuration of the emitted signals. It is alleged that the STR of the enemy aircraft cannot correctly identify such radiation and warn the pilot about the threat.

    the range of stable detection in this mode is much lower (approximately every 10 times) than the range in normal operating modes of an onboard locator.
    Optical location station for Su-57. Photo by Vitalykuzmin.net

    in the photo only part of the OLS-35. More specifically, BOM (top) and BATTLES (gray box)

    The primary means of detection on an F-22A aircraft is the Northrop Grumman / Raytheon AN / APG-77 airborne radar. The station with AFAR has an instrumental range of more than 520 km. The detection distance depends on the parameters of a specific target.

    Let me remind you that AN / AAR-56 is only effective in detecting highly contrasting thermal targets, i.e. when the potential target’s engines are boosted. In flight modes "maximum afterburning" and below, the AAR-56 is capable only within the limits of visual visibility.
    1. pmkemcity 6 March 2020 07: 09 New
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      There is another tangled track. He will not get rid of it.
      1. Aviator_ 6 March 2020 08: 14 New
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        Only the products of incomplete combustion of fuel shine in the confused track, and there are very few of them, so you cannot see the track with passive means.
        1. pmkemcity 6 March 2020 08: 20 New
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          I just meant the location.
          1. Aviator_ 6 March 2020 08: 22 New
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            Location than laser? Radar will not take a thermal and turbulent trace.
            1. pmkemcity 6 March 2020 09: 03 New
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              Quote: Aviator_
              Radar will not take a thermal and turbulent trace.

              Why?
              1. Aviator_ 6 March 2020 16: 43 New
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                So I ask - why should a thermal or, especially, a turbulent trace be radiocontrast?
                1. Hexenmeister 6 March 2020 17: 05 New
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                  It may well be, and even his EPR will be more than those golf balls that F-22 likes to compare with.
                  1. Aviator_ 6 March 2020 17: 12 New
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                    It may well be

                    From this place in more detail, pzhlst. On what physical principle does an electromagnetic wave suddenly arise, reflected from a layer of hot gas with a temperature of a couple of hundred degrees Celsius?
                    1. Hexenmeister 6 March 2020 17: 28 New
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                      From any difference in permittivity, refraction and reflection will occur.
                      1. Aviator_ 6 March 2020 18: 31 New
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                        And now, the numerical values ​​of the dielectric constant of cold and hot air are in the studio! However, I can help - the refractive index of air is related to its temperature by the Gladstone-Dale constant (k = 0,2274 cm3 / g), multiply n-1 = k by the density, and when the air is heated to 100C, the initial refractive index n = 1,00029 will change an order of magnitude and will be 1,0029, and how do you catch it using a radio wave per 100 km? It is caught only in the optical range, so I wrote about lasers. And with them it is problematic at such a distance.
                      2. Hexenmeister 6 March 2020 20: 21 New
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                        Well, the temperature is higher, plus combustion products, plus motion heterogeneities and how much, and the question is not whether it will be one hundred squares in the EPR, but what will be more than the golf ball with which they like to compare.
                      3. Aviator_ 6 March 2020 20: 47 New
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                        The ball ESR is for advertising, for sure there will be different ESR in different directions, perhaps in some fixed direction the ball will turn out, but not in the neighboring ones. And as for the detection of the trace, I did describe everything briefly to you - it is not caught in the radio frequency range.
                    2. VladGTN 6 March 2020 23: 42 New
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                      Watch out! This conversation can accidentally wake / activate Gridasov
                    3. pmkemcity 7 March 2020 09: 14 New
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                      For discussion - https://yandex.ru/patents/doc/RU2536769C2_20141227
                      The abstract itself is about optics, there are mentioned in the preamble and radar methods. The topic, apparently, is closed, which means it is not interesting.
                    4. Aviator_ 7 March 2020 18: 21 New
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                      Patents have more than a lot of rubbish, although the topic itself has a number of closed applied areas.
  • Amateur 6 March 2020 06: 43 New
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    The advertising materials for the Lockheed Martin F-22A project constantly mention the numerous advantages of this aircraft over other aviation equipment, which ensures complete superiority.

    It is known that in the Russian Su-57 project various solutions were actively used to reduce visibility in all main ranges. At the same time, the results of such measures, as in the case of the F-22A, are classified. Even the main characteristics of this kind were not disclosed, which is why for the time being we have to deal exclusively with assessments of varying degrees of credibility.

    Comparing flyers with “grades of varying degrees of credibility” is an absolutely useless activity.
  • Butchcassidy 6 March 2020 07: 59 New
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    Ha! Lie all! And your fighters are nothing compared to the J-20 and J-31!

    Sohu (c)
    1. Sasha_rulevoy 6 March 2020 11: 38 New
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      The F-22 has a water cooling system at the wing edges - it is difficult to see.
      At the Su-57 in the wing edges of the antenna AFAR lower frequency range - he can see further.
      The F-35 has fuel tanks in the wing edges - it flies far.

      Wise Chinese monkeys have nothing in the wing edges: no cooling, no antenna, no tanks. He flies close, sees poorly and is noticeable.
  • Hermit21 6 March 2020 08: 13 New
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    It is alleged that the STR of an adversary’s aircraft cannot correctly identify such radiation and warn the pilot about the threat


    Recognizing noise-like signal STRs learned more "yesterday"
  • EvilLion 6 March 2020 09: 07 New
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    It has an LPI (Low Probability of Intercept) mode of operation with a special configuration of the emitted signals.


    This is a long-known in radar mode with dynamic frequency tuning.
  • Fishery 6 March 2020 11: 08 New
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    nifiga did not understand) who will see anyone before? who has long-range missiles?
    1. g1washntwn 6 March 2020 12: 58 New
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      Quote: Tonya
      who will see anyone before? who has long-range missiles?

      Who will receive the link data faster from RTR or DRLO. 1-on-1 situations are modeled as an exceptional case of low probability. Over the ocean without support for target designation, in a spherical vacuum, etc.
    2. dauria 6 March 2020 13: 17 New
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      nifiga did not understand) who will see anyone before? who has long-range missiles?


      Who has more brains. And auxiliary aircraft. And experience with cunning.
      A simple thing - against the background of the earth, the detection range is reduced by 2-3 times. Jews fired the F-16 low in front with thermal missiles. F-15 with Sparrow
      and the radar went back higher. So they beat the Syrian MiG-23. A great aircraft, an excellent S-23 locator, excellent R-23r missiles. Everything is no worse than the F-15. What's the point? When approaching, everyone sees everything, but the MiG cannot reach the launch range. Will come out, let go - gets hit by the bottom. Will begin to turn off - will disrupt the guidance of his own rocket.
      Turns away earlier - again the F-15 catches up with the blow. So it remains either to flee immediately, or to die to no purpose.
      1. Hexenmeister 6 March 2020 14: 19 New
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        A simple thing - against the background of the earth, the detection range is reduced by 2-3 times

        Maybe this is the rule for the Mig-23 radar, but for the F-15 and Su-27 radars it is no longer there, and therefore in this battle the lower F-16s will be carried out first, their launch range over the target will be scanty, and then ... will be what will be ...
        1. dauria 6 March 2020 14: 34 New
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          Maybe this is the rule for Mig-23 radars, but for F-15 and Su-27 radars,


          What, by decree of the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions abolished the equations of radar? Does the Doppler signal-to-noise ratio cease to be relevant?
          1. Hexenmeister 6 March 2020 14: 51 New
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            First, study this same Doppler radar, in particular the signal uncertainty function and the distribution function of reflections from the underlying surface, maybe you will find this very solution.
  • Viktor Sergeev 6 March 2020 11: 40 New
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    The author forgot such a trifle as electronic warfare equipment, and also did not provide an assessment of the possibility of evading long-range missiles, due to over maneuverability.
  • CBR600 6 March 2020 12: 22 New
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    First flight: YF-22: September 29, 1990 [1] / F-22: September 7, 1997 [1]
    Start of operation December 15 2005
    I wouldn’t compare it with the 57th, only the F-35th, because improvements are constantly being made (with us). Anyway, we expect a miracle from the SU-57. But his sho is not and is not. And so I want. It's time to introduce him with the letter-M or M2. But where are these new engines ??! Where is our imba?
  • nickname7 6 March 2020 13: 02 New
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    In this context, we can consider the leading fighters of leading countries - the American F-22A and the Russian Su-57.

    You can not consider the product Su-57 not standing in service, with the F-22A in operation, as this is incorrect.
  • 5-9
    5-9 6 March 2020 14: 51 New
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    Available data show that both aircraft have one or another advantage over each other, which can at any time affect the outcome of the battle

    But this is not accurate ..... The quintessence of the article ... besides the estimated range of radar detection of both target aircraft with the same EPR (according to these data, you can even compare them) is nothing interesting. At least you could write that due to the flat nozzles, the F119 has 20% lower thrust than it could be with round ones ... otherwise you might think that we can’t flatten the nozzles ... :)
  • magadan72 6 March 2020 15: 12 New
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    A lot is written about invisible planes — the last generation is expensive and efficient. In the press they write a lot and compare the parameters of invisibility. But no one writes this parameter in the “forehead” where are the smallest sizes or the general invisibility? How do the planes glow on the locators below? On the side? Are they also invisible?
    Other
  • Pacifist with AK 6 March 2020 17: 21 New
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    Very interesting article "in the subject." One of the authors you know well. Google, friends)))))
    http://vivovoco.astronet.ru/VV/JOURNAL/VRAN/03_10/STELLS.HTM
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 March 2020 17: 55 New
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    The primary means of detection on an F-22A aircraft is the Northrop Grumman / Raytheon AN / APG-77 airborne radar. The station with AFAR has an instrumental range of more than 520 km. The detection distance depends on the parameters of a specific target. Large targets with large EPR are detected at a distance of 400 km. With an EPR of 1 square meter, the range drops to 220-240 km, with 0,1 square meter - 110-120 km.

    After that, it became uninteresting.
    TTX Raytheon AN / APG-77 classified. And the above data is Aerospace Technology information based on the advertisements of Rayon. That is, someone in the district boasted "we will create a radar with VOOOT SUCH TTX" and ... that's it. What actually can and what the 77th cannot - is known only to persons of American nationality with the appropriate access
  • kutuz 6 March 2020 21: 40 New
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    This is called "measuring by pussy" as it is possible to compare F-22A which produced 127pcs., Which participated more than once in military operations and in 2011 was discontinued, with which there is practically no airplane, more precisely there are 3 or 5 pieces and then not finished, which didn’t fly further than the landfill?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 17: 30 New
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      Quote: kutuz
      rather there are 3 or 5 pieces and then not finished, which did not fly further than the polygon?

      It remains only to clarify - the Syrian training ground :))))
      1. kutuz 11 March 2020 20: 42 New
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        "Syrian landfill" - did you come up with it yourself or did Solovyov tell?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 March 2020 20: 59 New
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          And you do not know that the Su-57 were in Syria? Read the Defense Ministry news more often
  • Knell wardenheart 6 March 2020 22: 06 New
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    I think due to controllability in real combat, our planes will be better - both attack and survive. Maneuverability was our traditional trump card ..
    However, the whole idea of ​​American stealth aircraft is to avoid such a fight and do their job even before such a distance at which our traditional advantages are realized. Detection, missile launch, penetration into someone else's airspace, and finally - the best escape from enemy fire. Numerical superiority and emphasis on a network-centric approach to hostilities - it is hoped that this will be a fairly reasonable rate.

    I think the American radar technique is better than ours - I mean not by specific parameters, which in places may be higher, but comprehensively. You need to understand that the issue of technological innovation and miniaturization there is not just bragging / balabalism. And with the same dimensions, their device MAYBE inferior to ours in terms of survival / stability / price - but it will be somewhat more powerful and multi-functional. The question is how much is open ... and unfortunately secret.
    I’ll assume that the Su-57 is worse than the F-22 in terms of visibility - all the same, the Americans had the opportunity to develop stealth themes 15 years more than ours, with incomparable resources, had experience using such devices in military operations against the Soviet technological decisions. Since we are still continuing to exploit the Soviet backlog, this very serious factor must be taken into account ..
    In my opinion, reflections of who is who - here are not much different from "who is cooler than a dinosaur or an elephant." We are making the stealth fighter a completely traditional approach for our aircraft industry - with emphasis on stealth.
    Americans make an MFP airplane for stealth penetration. Such a plane against a classic fighter will always be slightly worse than another purely “fighter”.

    What can we do about it? First of all - do not get hung up on the competition of resources - our resource is not comparable with them. We will not be able to release such a number of planes, and we will not be able to make our planes much better than them. It's not a problem . Our solution should be in a different plane - saturation of air defense, the creation of effective ground-to-air and air-to-air missiles, and finally, work on a network-centric component. Now we can repulse the United States only with a complex, but not with individual samples. IMHO.
    1. kutuz 11 March 2020 20: 41 New
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      “I think due to real handling” - the turkey also thought ...
  • Saxahorse 7 March 2020 00: 20 New
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    Sometimes you regret that the article cannot be put a minus. I don’t know where this strange stream of consciousness came from, but all the numbers are in doubt. :(

    Large targets with large EPR are detected at a distance of 400 km. With an EPR of 1 square meter, the range drops to 220-240 km, with 0,1 square meter - 110-120 km.


    After such promises, one can only wonder why the Shell with its phased antenna looks much more modest.

    The millimeter range locator provides detection and destruction of targets with an EPR of 0,1 m² at a distance of 20 km. Target capture with an EPR of 2 m² is provided throughout the radar at a range of 30 km. The longest range is 36 km.


    Apparently some kind of parallel reality is being described.
    1. Tuzik 7 March 2020 01: 11 New
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      I noticed the difference in your quotes, about the Raptor, only the word "detect", and about the Shell: "detection and defeat", maybe the dog is buried here?
      1. Saxahorse 7 March 2020 01: 29 New
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        Quote: Tuzik
        about the Raptor, only the word "detect", and about the Shell: "detection and defeat"

        These are not my quotes. This is written in the advertising materials of the Shell and in this article from the advertising leaflets of the F-22 again, apparently. (Moreover, in fact, they swear that the same Carapace catches small targets three times worse.) I’m afraid to guess about Raptor’s booklets, the numbers are simply fabulous. It’s clear that he’s better, but as far as you can’t figure it out yet.

        In general, such a global difference in numbers suggests that the performance characteristics are apparently inflated. It remains to determine how much ..
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    3. fk7777777 30 March 2020 13: 16 New
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      Well, as V. I. Lenin said, people believe everything that is written on the Internet))).
  • Legion10588 31 March 2020 09: 32 New
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    what does 57 trash to 22 ???
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  • Ruby 31 March 2020 19: 35 New
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    Quote: Private-K
    Seven strictly perpendicular lines? An expert is really needed here.

    [media=http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og2HsT1qX5s&list=RDF0T0Y91npYg&index=4]
  • Viktor Sergeev 24 May 2020 14: 10 New
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    That is, the author has never heard of EW. How much can you tryndet about the detection range in "ideal conditions". And the ability to get away from medium and longer-range missiles, if the launch was made beyond 40 km, due to over-maneuverability is not considered?