The stone fortresses of ancient Iberians: a chronology of historical drama


Puich de Castellet: excavation view


"... a solid fortress in ruins ..."
Isaiah 25: 2


Castles and fortresses. Many readers of VO liked the material “Castles and ancient settlements of Lloret”however, at the same time, they drew attention to the fact that there was not very much about the fortifications of ancient Iberians in it, but this is a very interesting topic. Many would like to know that modern science speaks of Iberians and in more detail about the fortified settlements found by archaeologists in the area of ​​the town of Lloret de Mar. Well, today we fulfill their wish.


Terragona: wherever the Romans only came, they built such buildings ...

The heyday of Iberian civilization


To begin with, there are various hypotheses regarding who the Iberians are. One at a time, they arrived in Spain from the Eastern Mediterranean. Another claims that, yes, they are aliens, but ... from North Africa. Others consider them to be descendants of the local, even more ancient cultures of El Argar and Motillas. The simplest explanation is that they are also Celts and ... that's it. Iberians settled along the Mediterranean coast of Spain. Their settlements are found in Andalusia, Murcia, in Valencia and in Catalonia. They also influenced the formation of the culture of the people who lived in the north-central region of the Iberian Peninsula, the so-called Celtiberians. Iberians possessed bronze processing skills, were engaged in agriculture and cattle breeding. It is also known that later they appeared cities and developed social structure. Well, they mined so much metal that they traded it with Phenicia, Greece and Carthage.


Iberian relief, Mausoleum of Pozo Moro, VI century BC. e. showing the Hittite influence

The heyday of Iberian culture in the south and east of the Iberian Peninsula falls on the VI and III centuries. BC. It is known that during this time the Iberians led a sedentary lifestyle, lived in groups in settlements on the tops of hills, which were surrounded by fortress walls, and their houses were made of stone and clay and roofs made of reed. Interestingly, the Iberians quickly mastered the processing of iron, and in the pottery they did not know their peers, making beautiful painted vessels, although completely unlike the Greek ones. And although all Iberians belonged to the same culture, from a political point of view their society was far from homogeneous, because of which there were private feuds in their midst. This way of life has led the Iberians to become very warlike people, and the fortifications have become an integral part of all Iberian settlements!


So today it looks like what was once a settlement of the ancient Iberians. And then, the walls ... of course, partially restored

The invasion of the Carthaginians


In the III century. BC. the city of Carthage became dominant throughout the western Mediterranean and also in Sicily and on the Iberian Peninsula. His interests clashed with the interests of another state - Rome, and the result of their confrontation was first the First, and then the Second Punic War. The first led to the loss by Carthage of Sicily, Corsica and Sardinia, but he recouped by expanding his possessions in Spain. Obviously, this led to a clash with the locals and led to the fact that the Greek colonies of Ampurias and Roses began to seek the protection of Rome.

The stone fortresses of ancient Iberians: a chronology of historical drama
"Warrior of Mohente." The figurine is kept in the Museum of Prehistoric Times of Valencia.

Roman conquest of Iberia


In 218 BC in Ampurias Roman troops landed, commanded by Gnei and Publius Cornelius Scipio. The Carthaginians were defeated, expelled from the peninsula and lost all significance here. But the Romans, too, did not leave Spain. They divided the territories they occupied into two provinces, giving them the names Near Spain and Far Spain. The Iberians were required to disarm, since now the Roman troops had to defend them. Iberians responded to this with the uprisings in 197-195. BC, but they were crushed, and their fortified settlements, including in the area of ​​Lloret del Mar, were destroyed.

Iberia under Roman rule


Interestingly, the conquerors, although they pursued a strict tax policy, did not at all encroach on the language and culture of the Iberians, nor did they force them to change the nature of their economic activity. The process of Romanization, of course, took place, especially among the local nobility, but it was not violent. As a result, during the second century. before. AD Iberians more and more imbued with Roman culture. They ceased to be at enmity with each other, built new settlements, in particular, Turo-Rodo, maintained their lifestyle and traditions, and began to produce even more ceramic products, since very often they paid taxes to Rome.


Map of Iberian resettlement in Spain

Over time, the effects of romanization began to appear. So, Iberians began to use shingles for roofs, not reeds, to store crops not in pits, but in large ceramic amphoras; accordingly, the exchange nature of exchange was replaced by money. Coins with symbols and inscriptions of Iberians, as well as scripts using the Latin alphabet, were distributed, while the letter itself was Iberian.

A significant role in the spread of the "Roman world" was the support by the Romans of local cities in Catalonia, in particular Blanes, to whom the Romans granted the status of a municipality.

In the first half of the XNUMXst century BC. the process of romanization accelerated. The economy of the region completely merged with the economy of the Roman Empire and at the same time, specialization and division in the field of agriculture took place. In particular, the hot of Spain has become a place for the production of "Spanish wine", which is valued in winemaking Italy for its excellent taste from the local ones. Wine exports accelerated the development of the local economy, and with it the Roman influence in Spain. As a result, by the beginning of the first millennium AD, the Iberian civilization as such had practically ceased to exist, and the lands on which it had once arisen finally became part of the great Roman Empire.


Falcata (National Archaeological Museum, Madrid)

However, Rome also inherited something from the Iberians. So, the famous Roman sword - gladius was borrowed by them precisely from Iberians and at first it was called “gladius hispanicus” (that is, “Spanish sword”). The earliest and most typical appearance of such a sword was about 75–85 cm long, about 60–65 cm long, and about 900–1000 g weight. The blade had a characteristic leaf-like shape with a pronounced waist near the hilt, and resembled a pointed gladiolus leaf .


Roman gladius of the 53,5st century AD Length 7 cm, maximum blade width - XNUMX cm. Archaeological Museum of Strasbourg


Modern replica of a gladius from Strasbourg

The Spanish Iber was also known for such a sword as a Falcata, which is generally very widespread in the Mediterranean. However, it is significant that the Romans gave him the specific name “Spanish saber” - “mahahera hispana”, as well as the “Spanish” name for his direct sword with a leaf-shaped blade. That is, this clearly indicates the mass use of these two types of swords in Spain, while different types of this were used in other lands. weapons.


Falcata IV century before. n e. (Archaeological Museum of de Villena, Alicante)

Traditions report the high quality of the Iberian swords of the XNUMXrd century. BC e., which are easily bent and straightened without any consequences. This indicates that hardened steel was used for their manufacture, which could spring, and not bronze or iron. Most likely this sword originally came to the Iberians through the Greeks, but the warlike Iberians really liked it, and the fashion to carry it in a sheath behind its back spread among them. This seemed unusual to the Romans, they gave their weapons their “local name”, and then they adopted the sword itself from the Iberians.

Montbat. Fortress at the crossroads of trade roads


In the previous article, we talked about the Iberian village of Montbarbat, located in the northwestern part of the town of Lloret de Mar. The settlement is difficult to access, since it is located on a mountain 328 meters high. In fact, it was a kind of watchtower of the ancient Iberians: the view from here is beautiful and can be seen far. From here it was possible to control the ancient Hercules road from north to south, and the path along the river Tordera from the coast inland.

They knew about the settlement for a long time, but excavations here began only in 1978. Today they have unearthed an area of ​​5673 square places and cleared a section of the wall with a length of 90 m, as well as one of the two found towers.


Reconstruction of the Iberian warrior V-IV BC e. F. Chinera. (Museum of the History of Valencia)

It turned out that the settlement was surrounded by a wall on all sides, and its length was 370 m. The thickness of the wall was 1,2–1,5 m. It was composed of hewn stones, tightly fitted to each other and laid in two rows. The space between them is filled with pebbles mixed with earth. There is no foundation. Wall masonry was carried out directly on the stone base. The thickness of the walls of the tower is the same. Its area inside is 14,85 square meters. Interestingly, the exit from it did not lead to the street, but to the living room with a hearth. They also managed to unearth seven houses and a water tank. We also found workshops of artisans, which also had tanks for water, drains and sewers. Obviously, something perishable was being processed here.


Exterior of the Iberus Warrior (Municipal Archaeological Museum of Alcoy, Valencia)

Judging by the finds, they lived here from the second quarter of the XNUMXth to the beginning of the XNUMXrd century. BC. This is, first of all, shards of attic black-lacquered ceramics, which were later replaced by the ceramics of the Greek colony of Roses. Interestingly, the population left Montbarat gradually. There is no sign of destruction or fire. But its inhabitants settled somewhere nearby, although this place was not found. But there are traces of ceramics of the Middle Ages and even the New Age. So, somewhere nearby they settled, and lived here for a very long time.


Iber riders also already had. Vessel with the image of a horseman with a spear (Municipal Archaeological Museum of Alcoy, Valencia)

Puich de Castellét. Fortress for thirty souls


This settlement is located two kilometers north of the city limits of Lloret de Mar, on a rocky ledge with a height of 197 m. The settlement was also surrounded by a wall with towers, with only 11 dwellings inside. All of them adjoined the walls, and in the center was a square. It arose in the second half of the XNUMXrd century. BC.


Puich de Castellét: you won’t have to hit the feet on the stones ...

We found it back in the 40s of the last century and dug it up intermittently until 1986. It was possible to find out that the length of the settlement wall was 83 m. There were two towers, and both of them were passing. It is interesting that out of 11 residential buildings there were only six, that is, in total 30 people lived in this fortress no more, since all other premises were used ... for warehouses! The living quarters had two or three rooms, and foci were found in them. It is surprising that so few people lived in such a well-fortified place and, a legitimate question, what did they do here? Millstones are found - it means they ground the grain, loads of weaving mills. And yet - was the stronghold too much for such a small community?

Turo Rodo. Sea view fortress


Well, for lovers of fishing and the open sea there was also the village of Turo Rodo, right on the territory of the town of Lloret de Mar, almost near the sea. The hill where it is located has a height of 40 meters. In the north, it is connected to the mainland by an isthmus about 50 meters wide. From all other sides, the hill almost steeply cut off towards the sea. The entire coast was visible from the hill, which was very convenient in the sense of observing uninvited guests.


The most extreme houses of Turo Rodo are located on the very edge of the cliff!

It was completely excavated only in 2000-2003. and found that people lived here from the end of the 1,1rd century. BC. and until the first decades of the 1,3st century. AD The entire northern part of the settlement was protected by a wall 40 - 11 meters wide, built of stones fastened by an ordinary length. The wall was surprisingly well preserved for almost XNUMX meters, and again it was double, and the gap was filled with pebbles. XNUMX dwellings were also found on the territory of the settlement: seven on one side and four on the opposite, right on the edge of the cliff. All houses are rectangular in shape, covered with reeds. The windows are small. There are two rooms inside. The hearth is usually located in the second, the entrance to which, apparently, was curtained. There was no door in the first door, and it was through it that it was lit. Therefore, there, most likely, there were looms.


That's how they get up there now. From the sea. However, there is another way, not so steep!

Findings indicate that the population of the village fished, engaged in agriculture (we grow grain) and weaving. From 60 BC the inhabitants of the settlement began to leave it, moving to more populous and civilized places.
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  1. Bar1 25 February 2020 08: 30 New
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    The fact that the Iberians were shoved in antiquity is a matter of conscience with the OI.
    -antity is anti-reality
    -ibers-and / a / anti _bers / bars
    those. Iberians are bars, but the famous Barbaria or Barca is the north and east of Africa and this is certainly not antiquity.

    as we see on Brue's 1820 map, that the north and east of Africa are
    -Barbaria
    -Barge
    -Darius
    -Dauria / Daria
    and even the fact that the Niger River has not yet turned from north to south, but flowed from west to east into some kind of large lake.


    1. Bar1 25 February 2020 08: 38 New
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      or here is a map of the 17th century Amsterdam in eastern Africa we see the Barbara Sea and ZangiBar / for Barbara



      Well, the famous Roman sword, gladius, is just a Russian sword a treasure trove.
      1. kalibr 25 February 2020 09: 17 New
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        Quote: Bar1
        Well, the famous Roman sword Gladius is just a Russian sword

        So short? But the length of the sword is tactics. Gladius was not designed for fencing. They pricked from under the shield in the ranks. And in Russia there are NO archaeological finds of such swords. Only long, Scandinavian type. If there was even one ... Oh, it would be a discovery! They did not find Falcata either. But all the buckles from the lorik, and the scabbard of gladiuses are found only in the Crimea and on Taman - where the Roman legions stood in the course, and after the war with Mithridates. So ... quite "not easy." It’s easy to say, it’s difficult to dig the earth and find confirmation in your own words!
        1. Bar1 25 February 2020 09: 29 New
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          Quote: kalibr
          And in Russia there are NO archaeological finds of such swords. Only long, Scandinavian type. If only one were found ..


          the fact is that Russian was spoken not only in the territory of present-day Russia, it is necessary to recall the Slavic regions of Germany Vagriya, Venedii / Venice, everything in the Danube region is based on OI.
          And it’s not about OI that in Italy itself there are many areas read in Russian
          -Etruria / Etrusia, the self-name of the Race.
          -Galiya / France in which there are many Russian names
          -Lutetia Parisian / Paris
          -Rossillon
          -Rosna river
          -Pine river
          -Don with such names there are several rivers in France / England
          Well, this is not surprising if you remember that the Cathars are Bulgarians i.e. Slavs.
          1. kalibr 25 February 2020 09: 42 New
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            And Quetzalcoatl was Russian, and Ermak was Cortes, I remember ...
          2. kalibr 25 February 2020 09: 43 New
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            The Cathars are the Bulgarians. And with what fright is this known? After all, Qatar is not a people ...
          3. Trilobite Master 25 February 2020 11: 26 New
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            Quote: Bar1
            they spoke Russian

            You, my dear, have not yet disproved my great scientific discovery about the blackness of the ancient Russians, who for a long time retained the original color of the skin of their mighty ancestors of the Buso-Aryans. That's when you acknowledge that true Russian should be with ebony skin, then we will speak Russian.
            1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 12: 04 New
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              That's when you acknowledge that true Russian should be with ebony skin, then we will speak Russian.

              Ebony color tree? Transparent? belay Well, you are bent, Michael! Are the tangerines not over yet? drinks say more - celluloid tree! tongue
              1. Trilobite Master 25 February 2020 13: 02 New
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                While the site has all sorts of Bars, Hordes, etc. my tangerines will not end. laughing
                These characters reign in their head with such a “BarDarius” that manDURinks begin to hatch directly from the air by themselves. laughing
                And if without Hochma, then this stream of delirium is simply annoying. It’s impossible to ignore him, but it’s impossible to take seriously at least, that’s why pearls are born ...
                smile
                Regarding ebonite, a joke was recalled.
                Exam at the institute. The student does not know anything, but the philanthropic professor is caught.
                - Well, answer at least the simplest question, name some dielectric.
                The student is doomed silently.
                - Well, imagine: spring, you and the girl in a dark room, alone ...
                - Ebonite, professor!
                - In general, it is correct, although in our time it was celluloid.

                smile
                1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 13: 17 New
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                  Regarding ebonite, a joke was recalled.

                  it was under the influence of this joke that I wrote wink
                  And if without Hochma, then this stream of delirium is simply annoying.

                  can you imagine what kind doctors are? They even have no right to say a word in response ... request
        2. Hyperborean 26 February 2020 08: 13 New
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          You are mistaken. In the Crimea they found a bunch of gladiuses, falcats and other things ... By the way, in the Krasnodar Territory there are also a lot of similar finds.
          1. Bar1 26 February 2020 10: 10 New
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            Quote: Hyperborean
            You are mistaken. In the Crimea they found a bunch of gladiuses, falcats and other things ... By the way, in the Krasnodar Territory there are also a lot of similar finds.

            can you give a link to this?
            1. kalibr 26 February 2020 10: 52 New
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              Read the journal ARCHEOLOGY of the Russian Federation and ARCHEOLOGY of the USSR, publications of the RAS - and you will all know. Where, when, and even what size. There was an article about the findings of Roman buckles in the Crimea. True, I have not met them in the museums of Rostov and Taman (there is a wonderful archaeological museum). I honestly don’t remember in Anapa ... But everything should be in the above-mentioned publications.
            2. Hyperborean 27 February 2020 14: 32 New
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              Well, this is not quite a link. Just rummage through the archives of Violiti, Reviewer, Rybert. You will be amazed at the amount of material. I myself lifted a bunch of all that ..
          2. kalibr 26 February 2020 10: 50 New
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            That's it. Where the Romans were and find them.
            1. rich 26 February 2020 23: 59 New
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              Iberian warriors (reconstruction)











      2. Trilobite Master 25 February 2020 11: 19 New
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        Well, the curve swept into the bath ... wassat
        Quote: Bar1
        -antity is anti-reality

        Quote: Bar1
        on the map of 1820 Brue,

        Quote: Bar1
        -Barbaria
        -Barge
        -Darius
        -Dauria / Daria

        But the last row interested me. I suggest the continuation: "Barabaria - Barca - Bar" and "Darius - Dauria - Dur." This is already something. If we talk about the interchangeability of phonemes "b" and "d" (and what else to talk about?), Then we obviously get that "bar" = "fool".
        The conclusion follows - a barometer (the original Russian name is "durometer"), the Cossacks invented from the Belgorod Horde to measure - what? - right, this one. Human stupidity. The unit of measurement, of course, is “dur”, it is, in the European tradition, “bar”. He showed a barometer of 0,5 bar - it means the test half-bar, well, or in Russian ... By the way, the name of the former US president - Barack - will also tell a lot to an understanding person. The name Barcelona takes on a new meaning.
        Use, colleagues, my discovery. I give it to you unselfishly.
        wassat laughing
        Quote: Bar1
        the famous roman sword gladius is just a russian sword

        A "sword-kladenets" is a sword from a treasure, that is, from a grave, from a barrow. A weapon that belonged to some ancient hero, and therefore endowed with magical abilities.
        1. fuxila 25 February 2020 16: 19 New
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          Or maybe the keeper is a device for laying down enemies?
          1. Trilobite Master 25 February 2020 16: 47 New
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            Quote: fuxila
            Or maybe the keeper is a device for laying down enemies?

            I have never heard of such an etymology ... smile
            But I consider it more likely than kinship with the Roman gladius. smile
          2. Bar1 26 February 2020 12: 29 New
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            Quote: fuxila
            Or maybe the keeper is a device for laying down enemies?


            two versions
            the first is that Kladenitsa is KL / Kolo / Solntse_adenets. Our ancestors were sun worshipers and the symbol of the sun was present everywhere from the names of our people to the stroller / falconers / chipped, to weapons.
            The second version, a kladydenka from the word stabbing the enemy.
            1. kalibr 26 February 2020 12: 46 New
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              Quote: Bar1
              The second version, a kladydenka from the word stabbing the enemy.

              This is where this version comes from and who is its author? Treasure and stake are completely different in meaning and not even root words. The root of this epithet - "treasure ..." - is usually associated with the word "put", that is, with the idea of ​​something hidden, obtained from the treasure or burial. You should also consider a different meaning of the word “lay”, namely, the sword-kladetsky puts the enemy army with one sweep of the hero. But the dictionary of the Code of Russian Folklore by A. N. Rozov points to the origin of the word “laid-down”, which simply means “steel” - perhaps, at some time, steel swords made an impression of their rarity. Nevertheless, there is no clarity in the etymology of the word, note its connection with the Old Irish word claideb (sword) and Welsh cleddyf (sword), and lat. gladius.
              In "The Tale of Babylon City" - he is nicknamed "Aspid Serpent" and can turn into a serpent. It is also called "Samoseok" - as he could chop himself.
              In some later dialects it turned into spoken word as a “sword-sword”.
              Alexander Veselovsky suggested the version that the phrase leads the story from Italy. chiarenza (“shine, shine”) thanks to “The Tale of Beauvais” - a thirteenth-century Italian novel “Buovo d'Antone” - one of the variations of the theme of Lancelot, whose protagonist wields a sword named Chiarenza, Clarenca (exactly the same Pulikane character from there became Polkan). The researcher notes that he is not familiar with texts earlier than the XNUMXth century, wherever there would be a “sword-kladenets”, indicates that in the Belarusian texts of the story about Bova, the sword was called klyantsion / kglarentsiya, and that Fasmer believes that the kladets is later and pure Russian folk-etymological development of Belarusian claring.
              1. Bar1 26 February 2020 22: 02 New
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                Quote: kalibr
                This is where this version comes from and who is its author? The treasure and number of words are completely different in meaning and not even root.


                Well, why not rooting?
                kolodets-chast / denets because it is transparent.
                The author is me.
                Quote: kalibr
                glance / glaring, and that Fasmer believes


                There are no such words, and a farmer is a Russophobe.
                1. kalibr 26 February 2020 22: 50 New
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                  Quote: Bar1
                  Well, why not rooting?
                  kolodets-chast / denets because it is transparent.
                  The author is me.

                  Oh, Lord, but I thought that I had an excess of self-conceit. At first you will learn how not to confuse the Cathars with the Bulgarians, and only then put forward the versions, otherwise everyone laughs at you and so on, but so far it’s politely to a certain extent. Because, as our people are educated. But not one upbringing will stand the reading of such pearls, and you will just be silently sculpting the cons, and the no further, the more.
                  1. Bar1 27 February 2020 05: 36 New
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                    Quote: kalibr
                    First you learn how to not confuse Cathars with Bulgarians,


                    I learned to distinguish and generalize the doctrines of the doctrine with the doctrine itself. Separating the Cathars and Bogomils is in the spirit of OI. So it can’t be.
                    The fact that local entities, instead of sorting out the phenomenon like horses in a stall, is their problem, but about the minuses, this is a forum problem, I already understood why this forum is and who is behind it. Well, do you need to collect more pluses and grow further, it is noticed that the more stars there are, the less thoughts are behind them. However, it was always so, did you read Schweik?
                    1. kalibr 27 February 2020 07: 06 New
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                      Quote: Bar1
                      generalize the doctrine carriers with the doctrine itself.

                      This is silly. Then both Russians and Greeks - Orthodox - one nation!
                      1. Bar1 27 February 2020 10: 43 New
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                        Quote: kalibr
                        This is silly. Then both Russians and Greeks - Orthodox - one nation!


                        the fact that Greece itself is more than a strange formation is visible without an armed eye.
                        -Greece appeared only in the 19th century through the efforts of the Romanovs and the self-name Hellas / Alla / Ali / God. And Greece is spoiled by Russian -Goretsia, the country of mountains.
                        -On the maps of even the 19th century there is no city of Sparta, what is Greece and Sparta? And in the atlas of Ortelius 1570 there are not even Athens.
                        - The names are strange Candia instead of Crete, Metelin island instead of Lesbos, the city of Troy in its place on the old maps of 18-19th, the city of Arda, the province of Epidaurus, the bays on Kolo are called.
                        This Greek nation is absolutely worthless on the neck of the European Union i.e. Germans, and even with bad habits.
                        I have already quoted inscriptions in St. Sophia in Constantinople, which are read in Russian in a strange way.
                        Zoe Neusa Vestati Augusta. Zoe brought the good news.



                        here you have the "ancient" Greece.
                        And by the way, already in OI, all these Roman sybarites / aRistocrats in southern Italy turned out to speak Greek, Great Greece, maybe from there their Romanovs dragged into the Slavic Balkans?
                2. kalibr 26 February 2020 22: 54 New
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                  Quote: Bar1
                  Well, why not rooting?
                  kolodets-chast / denets because it is transparent.

                  "Words with homonymous roots that are not of the same root, homonymous roots have the same spelling but different lexical meaning." Type this phrase in the search engine, you will get out 45 words. "Cola" is not among them! No stake, no yard!
                  1. Bar1 27 February 2020 05: 43 New
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                    Quote: kalibr
                    45 words will come out. "Cola" is not among them!


                    Well, in modern etymology it comes out that
                    -Escalibur-Is it chopped in Russian? Doesn’t come out? I do not trust modern etymology.
                    Is the same
                    - Vocabulary, it's kind of a Greek word, but here's a word
                    - Vocabulary is from the Russian river / rtsi / speech, then not Vocabulary, but Vocabulary and everything falls into place.
                    1. kalibr 27 February 2020 07: 12 New
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                      Why do you arbitrarily change the letters? Different languages ​​have different roots and meanings. I wrote to you about the search for the gray fox in Chinese. Which letters are replaced by Russian? And about the sword this way: it comes from the Welsh Caledvulh (Wall. Caledfwlch), in which elements of words such as caled (“battle”) and bwlch (“break integrity”, “tear”) are combined.
                      Galfrid of Monmouth Latinized the name - the sword in his XNUMXth century work “The History of the Kings of Britain” is called Caliburn or Caliburnus (from lat. Chalybs - “steel”). In French medieval literature, the sword was called Escalibor, Excalibor, and finally, Excalibur. So it "chopped" into the caves of stone people.
                      1. Bar1 27 February 2020 11: 07 New
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                        Quote: kalibr
                        Why do you arbitrarily change the letters?


                        no replacement.
                        -es_K_alibur-back Chopped, this is very strange.

                        - Well, the letter _o_ fell out of the word, so Kolo is very logical to assume.
                        Well, the transitions in Russian _d_ to _ t_ is a well-known rule of the Russian language replacing deaf and voiced sounds.
                        The very meaning of the word “Ladin” is not understood and is not recognized in the Russian language, which means it can be assumed that the word is distorted. Then substituting the missing letter and changing the voiced sound to a muffled one, we get the word
                        -Kladinets-Stab, everything is logical. And most importantly, the word appears the meaning of military use.
                      2. kalibr 27 February 2020 16: 54 New
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                        Quote: Bar1
                        The very meaning of the word “Ladin” is not clear

                        Why is it incomprehensible? Treasure root. Detinet, kladinets ... nothing needs to be substituted! Detinets is a derivative of something bigger, a small town. The treasure is large, the treasurer is derivative from it, something small. Any philologist without substituting letters will explain this to you.
                      3. Bar1 27 February 2020 19: 47 New
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                        Quote: kalibr
                        The treasure is large, the treasurer is derivative of it, something small


                        and what does the town have to do with weapons? Why is it called that? Something wrong you assumed.
                      4. kalibr 27 February 2020 22: 33 New
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                        The principle is related - the principle of changing words. Has it come at last, or do you only understand yourself?
  2. Bar1 25 February 2020 22: 52 New
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    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Well, the curve swept into the bath.

    you become just not interesting ...
  • Sergey S. 25 February 2020 23: 43 New
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    Quote: Bar1
    The fact that the Iberians were shoved in antiquity is a matter of conscience with the OI.

    Such an interesting topic is messed up ...
    1. Bar1 26 February 2020 10: 08 New
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      Quote: Sergey S.
      Quote: Bar1
      The fact that the Iberians were shoved in antiquity is a matter of conscience with the OI.

      Such an interesting topic is messed up ...


      ay-ay-ay, buy yourself children's fairy tales, there good always conquers evil.
  • Engineer 25 February 2020 11: 20 New
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    The simplest explanation is that they are also Celts and ... all

    Tsirkin met with a brief overview of the versions of the origin of the Iberians. Iberians are 100% NOT Celts according to modern views. Celtiberians are Celts in Spain.
    1. fuxila 25 February 2020 16: 15 New
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      I agree, the author is mistaken here. Indeed, for many years Tsirkin has been studying the history of ancient and medieval Spain, and there is his capital work “Ancient Spain,” where he, on the basis of many sources, shows that the Iberians and Celts are not identical to each other. And the very name of the Celtiberian tribal union speaks of a mixture of these two different peoples. It is possible that the descendants of the Iberians are Basques who speak a language that does not belong to the Indo-European.
      1. Trilobite Master 25 February 2020 16: 44 New
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        Quote: fuxila
        It is possible that the descendants of the Iberians are Basques who speak a language that does not belong to the Indo-European.

        And how can one not recall the Caucasian Iberia (or Iveria) despite the fact that many noted the similarity in language, costumes and customs between Georgians and Basques. smile
      2. Operator 25 February 2020 16: 46 New
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        Where is Celtic Iberia and where is Julius Berkovich Tsirkin with his Roman Spain? laughing

        Nevertheless, Tsirkin absolutely correctly indicates the time the Celtic language and culture penetrated the territory of Iberia: "Ethnic duality began to appear in Spain around 1200 BC, when tribal groups that spoke Indo-European languages ​​began to penetrate through the Pyrenees"
        https://e-libra.ru/read/469024-istoriya-drevney-ispanii.html

        After the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula by Erbins (carriers of R1b) at the end of the 2nd millennium BC from the north, the blood relatives of the Celts (the same Erbins, but previously assimilated by the Black Sea Aryans linguistically and culturally) came from the Alaverdi from the north to the peninsula and drove the local relatives (they are Basques) for Mozhais - in the Pyrenees, where the latter retained their authentic Basque language.
      3. Engineer 25 February 2020 17: 51 New
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        the author is wrong here

        In fairness, the author cited this hypothesis along with the rest. Just in my opinion it would be better to mark it as outdated in the light of modern science.
        Here is an interesting passage to parse:
        The sight of the funeral was to arouse the ardor of the soldiers and their willingness not to spare their lives, but instead they were filled with fear and gloom. (4) Until now, they only had to see wounds from spears or arrows, occasionally from the peak, and they were used to fighting only with the Greeks and Illyrians; now seeing corpses mutilated spanish swords136, hands cut off with one blow along with the shoulder, severed heads, tumbled guts and much more, just as scary and disgusting,

        This passage of Titus Libya describes the funeral of the Macedonian horsemen who died in a clash with the Roman cavalry. It turns out the gladius spanish was in service with the Roman cavalry ?. Or are those researchers right who believe that the Romans applied the Spanish Falcata? But then the wonder of the Macedonians familiar with its counterpart, Greek Mahaira or Xyphos, is incomprehensible.
        1. Engineer 25 February 2020 18: 06 New
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          Kopis, not xiphos
  • Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 11: 24 New
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    Vyacheslav Olegovich, the material reminded me very much of a fort on Zakynthos Island, or Bohali Castle. It is located on top of a mountain overhanging the island's capital - Zakynthos.
    The photo is not mine, but I photographed almost everything there! fellow

    The fort was built by the Venetians on the ruins of an ancient Greek fortress. In the 19th century, the British rule in Zakynthos - the fort is already enriched with English buildings. And crowns the very top of the mountain the Nazi bunker of the Second World War - like a cherry on a cake hi !
    1. kalibr 25 February 2020 11: 41 New
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      And everything that you photographed lies in vain! Must be made public !!!
      1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 12: 00 New
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        Must be made public !!!

        Shame, shame on the lazy Pan Kohank! recourse I still can’t make out the photos, but I have already promised everyone to describe what I saw! request By the way, I compared the photographs taken by our tourists, and what I did myself - really, they photographed the same things.
        But the fort we covered all! The big mountain in the center - this is the fort. All overgrown with forest, as you walk along the Karelian Isthmus! At night, the mountain is illuminated by a string of lights, and this sight looks very beautiful. soldier

        Most of the fort's internal buildings were destroyed - only the foundations remained. To get around the fort, you need two hours.
        Opening hours - from 8.00 to 14.00. The territory is large, so half an hour before the closure, the port of the fort begins to go round the burly young man on a moped, and push everyone to the exit. laughing Greeks are such Greeks! If their olives had not grown for 300 years, they would not have grown them either! negative
        But naturally (this is Greece!), Almost half of the foundations are former churches. And since the tablets are all in English, Volodya and I, when identifying objects according to the plan-scheme, ourselves switched to a dialect, not wanting to offend anyone's feelings:
        - Volodya! Is that church? (church - church)
        - It? yes, it seems, church! drinks
        1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 15: 50 New
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          switched to dialect
          Wow! I myself noticed 3-4 days in Europe and quietly you begin to communicate with satellites in "pigeon-English" laughing In Israel, such a tendency is not visible, because in the local "crowd" there will always be a subject who owns the "great and mighty", and, desperately, "barking". laughing
          1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 08 New
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            I myself noticed 3-4 days in Europe and quietly you begin to communicate with satellites in "pigeon-English"

            half of the Greeks do not speak any language at all except their own. The question is that their language is not translatable at all. I could not find a single common word. request
            The incident was. Let's go to a cafe on Zakynthos. I, from the experience of the Dominican Republic, remembered that shrimps in the English dialect are shrimps. I’m looking for-looking in the menu, but there is no this word! belay Okay, we ordered something from the fish, such as assorted, bring - oh, shrimp! They tell me - "you don't know the language". no I was almost offended! angry It turned out they had written in their menu - prawns. And these are just two forms of writing - at least call it that, at least like that! request
            1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 16: 27 New
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              A nefig made out! I would order "ham'n'patato", bring a familiar potato with pork
              1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 33 New
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                I would order "ham'n'patato", bring a familiar potato with pork

                there it is called pork steak, and the cheapest dish after gyros. drinks As they say, if you don’t know what to take, take a gyros, the Greek counterpart to the shaverma. Differences - basically, gyros is cooked with pork, few vegetables, but they put potatoes in half with pork. Well, the tortilla is thicker, so the dish turns out to be quite high-calorie! fellow Zakynthos cost 6-7 euros.
                1. Mihaylov 25 February 2020 17: 06 New
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                  6-7 euros per gyros! Well, bite on Zakynthos prices!
                  1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 17: 20 New
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                    6-7 euros per gyros! Well, bite on Zakynthos prices!

                    There, in general, everything is not very cheap ... sad We lived in a three star hotel. You want two sun loungers on the beach plus an umbrella (which under the sun there can only cover one!) - 5 euros, if you want air conditioning - I don’t remember how much euros a week. On the other hand .. This is "three stars"! You can live in the "five stars", and there everything will be turned on, and the staff will be in the pose of "what you will," but what will be the difference in price? request
                    But on this beach - Gerakas beach - a sunbed with an umbrella will be already 10 euros. An imposing lazy young man who politely asks to pay will definitely come up! hi

                    A car - from about 35 to 60 with something euro per day. We took for four. Gasoline - 2 euros per liter. Cheap local dry white wine "Retzina" - from 2,5 euros per liter in a plastic bottle. Strong alcohol is much more expensive than ours. A two-hundred-gram bottle of Greek strong liqueur “Ouzo” will cost from 4 euros, and what is 200 grams for the Russian sailor Maxim? angry
                    For food. Gyros - 6-7 euros, pork steak - 7-9 euros, the most expensive - seafood. They start somewhere from 12-14 euros. sad
                    Bonus At the end of the meal in the cafe, the Greeks will certainly bring you a free stack of ouzo, and they will also say “Yamas”. Type - "good health", in our opinion, or some other good wish. “I wish everyone!”, As Polygraph Poligrafovich Sharikov said. laughing
                    Well, in general, Sergey, I’ve dashed off to you half a hundred! drinks
                    1. Mihaylov 25 February 2020 18: 32 New
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                      Eucharisto! In general, standard plus / minus tourist prices, but a 7 euro gyros is definitely a crime against humanity! wink
                      1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 22: 36 New
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                        this is definitely a crime against humanity!

                        maybe less. Sergey, I can be mistaken from memory - nevertheless, I was there in June. what Save one euro, just in case! drinks and do not scold the depraved Pana Kohanka! laughing here in alcohol - I certainly was not mistaken! drinks
                      2. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 22: 47 New
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                        Eucharisto!

                        I don’t speak languages ​​- translate! laughing
                        By the way, there were many Poles among tourists. But the Chinese - no, I have not seen. And thank God! laughing
                      3. kapitan92 25 February 2020 23: 06 New
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                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        Eucharisto!

                        I don’t speak languages ​​- translate!

                        In Greek - thanks! The emphasis is on the letter "o". hi
                      4. Pane Kohanku 26 February 2020 09: 21 New
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                        In Greek - thanks! The emphasis is on the letter "o".

                        I only remember from GreekKalimEra"And"KalispEra". Accordingly,"good morning"And"good evening". Well "yamas"- this is their main saying. hi
                      5. kapitan92 26 February 2020 11: 46 New
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                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        In Greek - thanks! The emphasis is on the letter "o".

                        I only remember from GreekKalimEra"And"KalispEra". Accordingly,"good morning"And"good evening". Well "yamas"- this is their main saying. hi

                        Add to your vocabulary: Please - paracalo, yes, no, no - oh, and you can get a translator for our groups in Greece. laughing hi good
                      6. Pane Kohanku 26 February 2020 12: 19 New
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                        Add to your vocabulary: Please - paracalo, yes, no, no - oh, and you can get a translator for our groups in Greece.

                        Vyacheslav, thanks, added! Nah! drinks Damn, really, I can’t pick up a single similar language! laughing
                        and you can get a translator for our groups in Greece.

                        the guide from Mouzenidis Travel, who was in charge of us at the hotel, was just beautiful! good Tall oriental girl of model type! love
                        And they lived in Argassi. Very nice village. At the beginning of the 19th century, a bridge over a river was built there, but then either the channel changed, or the sea approached (God knows, I didn’t see any traces of this river there!) ... in general, there is a bridge in the middle of the sea now! request A very romantic place for couples in the late evenings - it’s good that no one removes the loungers from the beach. wink A hill in the distance in the center - on top of it is Fort Zakynthos. There really is a huge territory. Thank God he was overgrown with forest - in the heat I would not have passed him! drinks
            2. Undecim 25 February 2020 23: 23 New
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              bottle of Greek strong liqueur "Uzo"
              Ouzo is not liquor. It is a distillation product obtained from grain or molasses, flavored with anise, the same as arak
              1. Pane Kohanku 26 February 2020 09: 25 New
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                It is a distillation product obtained from grain or molasses, flavored with anise, the same as arak

                no, that's right! request We, therefore, were waiting for him, we, therefore, were hoping that he would come and clarify a lot, but he, you see, came when everyone was already asleep! laughing
                Viktor Nikolaevich, I am not good at classifying strong alcohol, but it is narrow in consistency, it’s malleable. Well, here I was trying to find a word that would be more suitable for this product. hi
              2. Mihaylov 26 February 2020 11: 29 New
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                Ouzo is vodka, or rather distillate, but they use it in principle as liquor: they are diluted with water or ice, which makes the drink cloudy and malleable (this is called the “scary” word Opalescence) and is drunk like Long Drink. Honestly, I never liked him like that, I think it's better to clean. But the Greek Uzeria always made an impression: at 7 in the morning you were going, and Greek grandfathers were already sitting there with a newspaper and a glass of Uzo.
                Vodka (distillate) is Tespuro or Ttsikudya or Crayfish, depending on the area. Crete is spoken by Tzikudia and Raki. It is usually made from grapes, but can also be made from other raw materials, such as mulberry.
              3. Pane Kohanku 26 February 2020 14: 22 New
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                But the Greek Uzeria always made an impression: at 7 in the morning you were going, and Greek grandfathers were already sitting there with a newspaper and a glass of Uzo.

                In Zakynthos we were taken on a sightseeing tour. In one coastal village, they wanted to feed in a cafe - it turned out that they cut off electricity there, had to postpone food. Another thing amused me - the entire adult male population of the village gathered in the same cafe, and they are discussing something. wink I immediately recalled a proverb: "Suddenly the war, and I'm tired", and thought - what else can you expect from the Greek peasants in the middle of the working day? request Then he remembered that it was Saturday, and justified them in his own eyes! laughing And as it turned out, it was a meeting with a candidate for deputy - the local Good Doctor talked with his future voters drinks
                Honestly, I never liked him like that, I think it's better to clean.

                I’m somehow not very long drinks .... Clean is easier. drinks
  • Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 40 New
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    Would order "ham'n'patato"

    Would you call a boor cook who would cheat on me? tongue drinks
  • Operator 25 February 2020 14: 42 New
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    Iberians by origin are ordinary Celts (carriers of the haplogroup R1b). Migrated from North Africa in the 3rd millennium BC, slaughtered local Illyrians and spread throughout Europe to the Oder-Neisse line. In the middle of 2 millennium BC all Celts (except for the Basques) were culturally assimilated by the Black Sea Aryans (carriers R1a with a distribution center in Hallstadt), after which they mastered the extraction, smelting and processing of copper and bronze, and also received horse-drawn transport.

    The Romans noted the similarity of languages, cultures and pagan pantheons among the Gauls, Iberians and Britons.
  • Mihaylov 25 February 2020 15: 00 New
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    It is amazing that so few people lived in such a well-fortified place and, a legitimate question, what did they do here? Millstones are found - it means they ground the grain, loads of weaving mills. And yet - was the stronghold too “hard” for such a small community?

    It seems to me nothing unusual: the typical fortified center of the local community, as a rule, was used as the center of craft, trade, a place of storage of supplies and, in general, everything of value, and in case of military danger, of course. Such settlements might not have a permanent population or a very small number, for example, a small garrison or several artisans. And the sizes were sometimes very substantial.
    1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 15: 48 New
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      Such settlements might not have a permanent population or a very small number, for example, a small garrison or several artisans.

      Sergey, I recall the fortress of Yama-Kingisepp. In its heyday, the end of the 14th - beginning of the 15th century, the settlement was extensive - a lot of artisans, even buffoons lived. There were two monasteries! And the size of the fortress (already even rebuilt!), Conditionally, 300 to 200 meters. request That is ... when the enemy comes, burn everything and hide behind the walls? hi
      1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 16: 03 New
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        Everything is clear with Yam-Izhora. Frontier, outpost, and all that, but in this case: three fortresses that existed almost simultaneously! Pulls to the fortified area! The question arises: from whom?
        1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 18 New
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          The question arises: from whom?

          from lovers of other people's buns and foreign women. stop It was only later that everyone began to be interested in oil ... what
          1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 16: 43 New
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            No, Nikolai. Iberia is the only region in the Mediterranean that has survived the “copper * energy crisis of the middle of the second millennium BC, and began to produce iron a thousand years later. Crete still has not recovered from the ecological disaster." Where are the woods from "in the Pyrenees, and their when smelting iron, you need a little more than when smelting copper.
            1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 49 New
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              who survived the "copper * energy crisis of the middle of the second millennium BC.

              If possible, in more detail, I am not aware of this, but I would like to know! drinks
              and a thousand years later he began to produce iron.

              That's interesting .. what The Aztecs did not bother with iron at all (if they knew it, of course); obsidian was enough for the weapons. The main thing is to stick it on a wooden base as a blade. fellow
        2. Trilobite Master 25 February 2020 16: 58 New
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          Quote: 3x3zsave
          three fortresses that existed almost simultaneously

          As a rule, the simultaneous existence of several fortified points in close proximity to each other indicates the compact residence of several ethnic groups in this area. An example in Russian history is the predominantly Scandinavian Ladoga and the predominantly Slavic Lyubsha, which for about a hundred years have existed in parallel, opposite each other on different banks of the Volkhov. Or the same Novgorod with its "ends". Now they are increasingly saying that these “ends” are different settlements, which eventually merged into one.
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          The question arises: from whom?

          Yes from each other. smile
      2. Mihaylov 25 February 2020 16: 10 New
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        That is ... when the enemy comes, burn everything and hide behind the walls?

        Yes, Nikolai, and it’s necessary to burn it in order to deprive the enemy of building material and shelters for organizing an assault.
        Regarding the size, I recall the Gla fortress in Boeotia (if I do not confuse the name): about the 13th century BC, that is, the Mycenaean period, the walls were 3 km long, the walls were around 4 meters high, a truly "cyclopean" structure, larger than Mycenae and Tiryns, but apparently did not have a permanent population and was intended for a period of military danger.
        1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 17 New
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          Yes, Nikolai, and it’s necessary to burn it in order to deprive the enemy of building material and shelters for organizing an assault.

          Well yes, exactly! request
          have a mycenaean period

          on Zakynthos I saw the graves of the Mycenaean period - one of the sights, which, it seems, few people know about. Judging by the size, the feeling that the dwarfs were buried ... what
          1. Mihaylov 25 February 2020 16: 31 New
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            Yes, it’s strange that they are so small. Those that Schliemann dug up in Mycenae in circle A were fairly large men of 1,8m.
            1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 38 New
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              Yes, it’s strange that they are so small.

              Sergei, it’s really in the slabs that small and narrow holes “for standing in the grave”. soldier Damn, I really need to make out the photo, I took a stand with information there. what
    2. Hyperborean 26 February 2020 08: 31 New
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      Absolutely true statement at 100500%. There were quite a lot of such “temporary” fortifications for living .. So there is nothing unusual in this.
  • 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 16: 19 New
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    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    Very interested in the Falcata. Not that I would never have heard of this piece of hardware, but everything is relative. A comparison shows that the Falcata is very similar to the scimitar, the shape of which was developed by the need to cut the shaft of spears and blade of swords. The logical question arises: who could resist the Iberians?
    1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 16: 24 New
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      Not that I would never have heard of this piece of hardware, but everything is relative.

      The Roman helmet began to be strengthened in stripes crosswise after collisions with the Dacians, which were falsely beaten from above. And pierced!
      1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 17: 12 New
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        I still terribly apologize, Nikolai, but did the Dacians know about the Falcate? Where are the Iberians, and where are the Balkan Highlanders?
        1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 17: 25 New
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          Nikolai, but did the Dacians know about the falkate?

          They knew. It’s just that in Greece the weapon had the image of a sword - copis, but the Dacians made a polearm from this, and, as I understand it, the end was bent down like a beak. You could reach the legionnaire if you were lucky. hi
          Although I could get confused in terms! There was some kind of foreign documentary about this ...
        2. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 17: 35 New
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          from the monument to Trajan.
          The question is, what is the name of the weapon in the duck on the right - is it falx or romphea?
          1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 17: 54 New
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            On the right is naginata, on the left is sacramasax. laughing
            1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 17: 59 New
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              On the right is naginata, on the left is sacramasax.

              Uh-huh. "On the right, the curls of a turner, on the left - a blacksmith" (song "Ural mountain ash"). And still on the left is Oleg the Prophet, and on the right is the nerdy unreasonable Khazar. soldier The joker you, Pane, however! wink but seriously, Victor Nikolayevich could help, but he did not come! request
    2. Engineer 25 February 2020 18: 05 New
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      Falcata is primarily similar to the Greek Mahaira - copis. Whether they developed in parallel and something came from another is not clear. Opponents of Iberians are primarily the same Iberians and Celts. Later the Carthaginians and Rome.
  • stroybat ZABVO 25 February 2020 16: 22 New
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    Q7 hello.
    No, not a bore.
    "fastened by ordinary length. The wall is surprisingly well preserved for almost 40"
    Bonded ordinary .... maybe "clay"?
    1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 16: 57 New
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      Again. Do not consider ancestors imbeciles. Limestone masonry has never been laid on clay! Only for “garging”, sirech, is a lime-sand mortar, which, in combination with a homogeneous material of blocks, acquires the properties of a reinforced concrete monolith within 50-100 years. You really believe me as a builder!
      1. Engineer 25 February 2020 17: 58 New
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        Clay masonry is very common throughout the world. The same Incas used it along with the polygonal. The Ollantaytambo Inca fortress is made exactly in this technique including walls except for the temple site and several others.
        1. 3x3zsave 25 February 2020 18: 13 New
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          My respect, Denis! hi
          The Incas, just do big originals. They came up with an econlmic system that, after a thousand years, works at a diagonally opposite point on the planet.
          1. Engineer 25 February 2020 18: 15 New
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            Good evening, Anton
            When I saw this primitive (clay masonry) in the midst of a perfect polygonal masonry, I could not believe my eyes. Not too lazy to pick and make sure that the clay. Moreover, this masonry in most cases is younger polygonal. Degradation or saving?
            They came up with an econometric system, which after a thousand years

            The Incas had socialism in the form of military communism. laughing
            1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 18: 30 New
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              The Incas had socialism in the form of military communism.

              But the internal party struggle? EMNIP, the name of the loser of the war for the intra-Indian power of Huascar was called a cocky ram monitor (on which the British tried to test the torpedo for the first time), but didn’t they name anything by the name of the pro-country Ataualpa? laughing drinks
              1. Engineer 25 February 2020 19: 56 New
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                But the internal party struggle?

                The Incas did not live up to the era of glasnost. Sorry. Otherwise they would read about Tauantinsuyu left deviators. Manco Kapak would have been a syphilitic with Jewish roots who had made the exodus from Bolivia with the money of the German General Staff. And Viracocha is a coward and executioner of the Inca people.
                1. Pane Kohanku 25 February 2020 22: 39 New
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                  Manco Kapak would have been a syphilitic with Jewish roots who had made the exodus from Bolivia with the money of the German General Staff.

                  To the bonfire of him! am He betrayed a spiritual Inco-American superethnos! wink drinks
            2. 3x3zsave 26 February 2020 09: 20 New
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              Perhaps the lack of technology for making wraparound?
              1. Engineer 26 February 2020 11: 00 New
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                The Incas did not have mortar technology. Generally. None.
                Three types of masonry.
                Large flat prismatic blocks. Mostly parallelepipeds, but sometimes trapezoidal, as I understand it, to spread the horizontal row of masonry. There is no solution. There are practically no gaps either.
                Polygonal masonry. Subject of fabrication on the subject of paleocontact. There is no solution. There are practically no gaps either.
                "Cobblestone" laying on clay.
  • faterdom 25 February 2020 17: 09 New
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    Phenicia, and then after its elimination, Carthage for centuries held a monopoly on trade and even sailing in general to the Iberian shores (not to mention the more distant ones - to the British Isles and even along the west coast of Africa (the journey of the Hannon expedition)). This was the basis of economic power - metals in exchange for all the goods of the Eastern Mediterranean - Oikumens of that time. Even all the agreements of Carthage on trade, and even alliance provided for this - west of Sicily and Corsica with Sardinia - the appearance of any ships was considered as piracy and heinous collision.
    Which, however, did not bother the Greeks at all - they brazenly settled on the "forbidden lands", and then Carthage with varying success, or even without success, fought with uninvited guests.
    Hannibal, as you know, was based in Spain, recruited troops in Spain and moved to Rome from Spain, so that the Romans, getting rid of mortal danger for themselves, quite reasonably went there to solve this "problem", naturally "at the request of the best people of Iberia" ( always such can be found in our time), only then they later had no habit of leaving, never and nowhere.
    And instead of the Carthaginian military trade bases of the fleet, they began to build their traditional system of fortresses, roads, bridges for basing and moving their legions.
    1. Operator 25 February 2020 17: 39 New
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      The fundamental difference between the Phoenicians / Greeks and Romans was that the former dotted the coast (colonies), while the latter occupied the entire territory from coast to the interior (province).
  • ANB
    ANB 28 February 2020 13: 05 New
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    Quote: Bar1
    Have you read Schweik?

    Did Schweik write something?