Chinon: castle of one of the wonders of the Orleans virgin

Chinon: castle of one of the wonders of the Orleans virgin
Chinon Castle


I read the map, like a Wine Card:
“Anjou”, “Chinon”, “Bourgeois”, “Vouvray”, “Sancerre” ...
The king drank them, not like the dauphin ...
Pavel Mityushev, Mir, vol. 3


Castles and fortresses. Every summer, more and more Russians travel abroad to rest. It is possible that among them there will be those who will be in France either in the castle of Chinon itself on the banks of the Vienne River, or near it. In any case, you should go there and examine it, because in fact you will find yourself not just in the castle, as many as thousands in France, but in the place where it was directly created история! Yes, that's right, and the story, which is rooted in the darkness of centuries ... On the pages of "IN" we already told about the secret graffiti of this castleallegedly pointing to the hidden treasures of the Templars. But when and how was this castle built and how did it become famous, besides the fact that disgraced Templars were kept in it? Our story about it today ...

Even at the site of the castle of St. George - the foremost fortification of Chinon, the ancient dwelling of the Gallic leader was found, which means that people settled in this place a very long time ago. The remains of the walls of the Roman settlement of the 954th century AD were also discovered there. It is known for sure that the first stone tower in its place was built on a mountain spur in 90 by the Blois Earl Thibault the Scammer. But 1044 years later, in 1068, he was captured by Joffrey Martel, Duke of Anjou, who turned him and all the lands around into his own domain. Well, his nephew Fulk IV, nicknamed Grumpy, went even further. In 1095, he usurped the title of Count Anjou, which was supposed to belong to his brother, and imprisoned him in his walls for almost thirty years. It got to the point that in XNUMX, Pope Urban II, who visited Tours, in order to preach the Crusade, had to personally come to Chinon in order to achieve his release. But the same Fulk also introduced a special tax on his vassals and began to strengthen the castle with these funds.

In 1109, after the death of Fulk IV, his grandson Joffrey V of Anjou, nicknamed Handsome, adopted another nickname Plantagenet - “The Gorse Flower”, which was depicted on his coat of arms, and became the foundation of the Plantagenet dynasty, since his son Henry II later became king of England.

In 1152, Henry Plantagenet married Eleanor of Aquitaine, just divorced from the king of France. She brought him Aquitaine as a dowry, and in thirteen years she bore him eight children, five of whom were boys.

Having become king of England in 1154, Henry built numerous palace buildings in Chinon, where his administration was located and even the “Treasure Tower”, where his treasury was stored. And it turns out that for many years spent by the king in moving from England to France and vice versa, it was Chinon who was his capital and the main military base of all his military operations on the continent! And in 1173 this castle also became a prison for his wife Eleanor. Accused of supporting several conspiracies of her sons against her father, she was kept here for almost fifteen years, first here, and then under house arrest in England. When Henry II died in Chinon in 1189, his children inherited a rich and powerful state, but their rivalry weakened him to the limit.

Local legend claims that Henry's son, King Richard the Lionheart, after the ill-fated wound with an arrow in 1199, also lost his spirit in Chinon, although most likely he was already dead when his body was delivered to this castle.

Then the plantagenet crown was inherited by Richard's brother John, who received the nickname Landless. Again, it was in Chinon in August 1200 that he celebrated his wedding with Isabella of Angouleme, cousin of the king of France, and then fortified Chinon against the French king Philip Augustus for another two years. However, despite all his efforts, the fortress still fell in 1205 under the blows of the army of Philip, after which John in 1214 had to sign a truce here with Philippe, depriving him of many possessions in France.

Well, then the castle turned into a royal prison and was most closely associated with the history of the Templars and their mysteriously lost treasures.

Well, then, already during the Hundred Years War, the future Dauphin Karl, in the future the King of France, Charles VII, having married Marie of Anjou, it was Chinon who made his summer residence, where since 1427 his entire courtyard has been located.

And then a truly historic event took place here that radically changed the fate of France: in March 1429, Jeanne d'Arc arrived in Chinon, where they meet with the Dauphin, convinces him to be crowned in Reims, and give her an army to free Orleans besieged by the British. This famous episode of an epic story is usually portrayed as a kind of mythical and absolutely wonderful scene. According to legend, Karl’s courtiers decided to test the girl by dressing up the dauphin in simple clothes and hiding him in the crowd, but Jeanne unmistakably recognized him among other people. However, in fact, in Chinon there were two meetings of the Dauphin and Jeanne. The first took place in February of this year in the apartment of the Dauphin, after which he sent her to Poitiers to meet with the theologians in order to check. Upon her return, she was again received by Carl. This second audience was already more official in nature, and then, as often happens, both of these meetings merged into one, and then a decent share of mysticism intervened in this story. It is believed that when Jeanne recognized the dressed king hidden among the courtiers, she told him something that proved her omniscience and instilled vigor and confidence in him. Later, during interrogation, Jeanne told another story in which she claimed that the king received a sign that helped him recognize her. It was a "beautiful, honorable and good sign." Later, she already said that an angel appeared then, who “stepped to the ground”, “entered the hall through the door” and gave the golden crown to Archbishop Reims, who, in turn, handed it to Karl. In any case, the symbolism of the situation is completely obvious. But the “miracle” did not pass in vain, but helped Karl regain his kingdom. It’s just that no historical sources confirm exactly this nature of their meeting, and how everything was really unknown to anyone. And this is just one secret from the many secrets of Chinon Castle, which, apparently, we will never be able to solve!

The last fortification works in the castle were carried out in 1560 during the so-called “Wars of Faith”, after which the castle was abandoned and began to decline into a little.

In 1632, the almighty Cardinal Richelieu became the owner of the castle, and in accordance with local legend used his stone to build his own castle. However, most likely Richelieu simply demolished the Throne Hall and the tops of the defensive towers. By the beginning of the 1854th century, Chinon Castle was a ring of dilapidated walls and ruined towers - although it was one of the most impressive structures of this type not only in France but also in Europe. In XNUMX, there was a danger of the castle collapsing, and then the general inspector of historical monuments, the famous French writer Prosper Merimee, spoke in favor of his rescue. Work was begun on its restoration. In the royal chambers, the floor was restored according to the original drawings, and the rooms themselves were furnished with copies of antique furniture. To date, a number of buildings have already been restored in the castle in the form they had in the XNUMXth century, and overlayings made of local aged oak and tiled roofs from Anzhevinsky slate were installed over them.

Well, now that we have got acquainted with all the main secrets of this truly unique castle, let's look at it both from the outside and from the inside. From above, this castle has the appearance of an elongated rectangle consisting of three castles - St. George, the Middle Castle and Kudrey Castle. You can get into it through the entrance on the eastern side, where even Henry II Plantagenet built several buildings for his administration and yard. They were named after the chapel of St. George, the patron saint of the knights, which was located here, and at first these buildings did not have any defensive significance. However, forty years later, the son of Henry II, King John the Landless, surrounded them with a wall and turned it into an advanced fortification on the side of the road to Tours. These buildings today have not been preserved, only the walls, and here, near the bridge to the Middle Castle, there is a tourist center.

This stone bridge, with several arches, is thrown over a dry moat and leads directly to the gates of the high Clock Tower dating to the end of the 1370th century. Inside the tower there are five floors connected by a spiral staircase. Next to the clock is a beating bell named Mary Javel. Passing through the gate in the tower, we find ourselves on the territory of the Middle Castle, where the first thing we see is the remains of the royal apartment near the southern wall of the castle. They were built and rebuilt for many years. Around XNUMX, the Duke of Anjou Louis I undertook their reconstruction, attaching to them the "Hall of Justice". Under Charles VII, there were already three large buildings located around the entire courtyard. In the royal chambers of the second floor there was an entrance hall, a bedroom, a bathroom and a dressing room. On the first floor there were office premises and a refectory. Located in the eastern part of this wing, the Hall of Justice since the XNUMXth century has become the Great Hall, also known as the Hall of Recognition. On the north side, one of the buildings of the Saint-Mele monastery was rebuilt into a ballroom.

Climbing the wall, we can go to the Boissy tower, which was erected in the XNUMXth century, possibly during the time of Louis IX, on the south side of the castle. It got its name from the Boissy family, who owned the Chinon castle in the XNUMXth century. On its first floor there is a security room, in the walls of which there are narrow loopholes for archers, through which you can watch the valley and the moat of the castle of Kudrey. A staircase built into the wall leads to the upper two floors and to the terrace. From it, the path goes to the Kudrey tower, but in the old days it was not easy to get into it: the entrance to it was preceded by a drawbridge.

Kudrey Tower is one of the three surviving towers built by Philip Augustus after he captured Chinon in 1205. Its name may be due to the presence of a grove of hazelnuts inside the fortress (“coudres” in the old French language), since the tower itself is located inside the castle and together with the drawbridge and walls forms the castle of Kudrey - another “castle in the castle”. Inside it are three intact floors. The first two are blocked by Gothic vaults, and the passage itself is located on the second floor. The tower has fireplaces and latrines. The lower room has an entrance to the tunnel, allowing escape from the castle in case of siege. The same tower was used as a prison for the Knights of the Order of the Temple in 1308.

King John’s Mill Tower is a key element of Kudrey Castle, located on the wall immediately behind the Boissy Tower. The first floor with a polygonal layout and a segmented domed roof is typical of its time, but is very rare in plantagenetic castles. The tower owes its name to the presence of a windmill, which supplied the castle with flour of its own grinding. And this is the only castle tower protecting its wall on the west side. The first floor of the tower is not connected with the second floor, which is accessible only through the passage along the wall. Both floors have loopholes, with embrasures in the niches of the walls, which again was characteristic of that time. The staircase goes up in the thickness of the wall.

In 1477, King Louis XI entrusted the Chinon fortress to his biographer Philippe Commine, the owner of the castle of Argenton-le-Valle. He strengthened the northwestern corner of the Middle Castle, building a new, more robust tower that could withstand artillery fire, which in honor of the new owner's estate was called Argenton. Its walls are five meters thick, and the loopholes for the guns are very low, at the height of the moat. In the XVII century, this tower served as a prison, as evidenced by graffiti on its walls.

The Canine Tower was also built by Philip Augustus, but differs from all others in that it has the shape of a horseshoe. It owes its name to the nearby kennels that housed the royal hounds. It has three vaulted floors topped by a high terrace. The entrance to it is located on the middle floor, and here you can see a large oven for baking bread, and latrines are located between the first and second floors.

The castle, if you go around it, seems huge, although due to the lack of many buildings and quite empty. However, in the past it was a real small town, where at the same time there were people, and dogs, and horses, in fact, a small state in the state, surrounded by strong fortress walls!


1. Clock Tower of Chinon Castle - view from the inside of the castle. The little turret protruding from the wall at the second floor level is the toilet!


2. Bridge to the Clock Tower through a dry moat


3. Chinon Castle in the city of Chinon, on the banks of the river Vienne - one of the royal castles of the Loire. Castle buildings from left to right: Mill Tower, Boissy Tower, ruins of the royal apartments, treasure tower and Clock Tower


4. View of the royal chambers of Chinon Castle


5. The execution of the Templars - the Grand Master Jacques de Molay and Geoffrey de Charnet. Thumbnail from the manuscript of the Chronicles of Saint-Denis. British Library, London (public domain picture)


6. Boissy Tower


7. View of the Boissy Tower and Mill Tower


8. Here in the premises of the Templars and kept ...


9. Mysterious Templar Graffiti


10. All that remains of the great hall of the royal chambers of Chinon Castle


11. Fireplace of the royal chambers of the second floor


12. Inside one of the restored rooms of the royal chambers


13. In the castle you can see the reconstruction of a wooden medieval construction crane. It is a stationary winch with a stepped wheel. Such a crane, despite a primitive device, could lift a load weighing up to 500 kg. Such "machines" were very widely used on construction sites at the end of the XNUMXth century.


14. Joan of Arc in front of Dauphin Carl in Chinon. Thumbnail from The Vigil on the Death of King Charles VII. Around 1484, National Library of France, Paris


15. Stone Bridge Leading to the Boissy Tower
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  1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 06: 03 New
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    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    Henry II died in Chinon, his children got a rich and powerful state, but their rivalry weakened him to the limit.

    But did any of the brothers infringe on Richard’s rights?
    1. Aerodrome 31 January 2020 06: 12 New
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      Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! hi
      The castle is hidden and wrapped in time, covered
      In a delicate plaid of green shoots
      But silent granite will untie the tongue
      And the cold past will speak
      On campaigns, battles and victories.

      These deeds have not erased
      Just raise the upper layer
      Or take it tighter by the throat
      And it will give its secrets.

      One hundred castles fall and one hundred shackles fall
      And a hundred sweats come down from a pile of centuries
      And legends from hundreds of verses will pour
      About tournaments, sieges, about free shooters.

      Prepare your ear for familiar melodies
      And look with an understanding eye
      Because love is forever love
      Even in our distant future.


      The steel burst loudly under the pressure of the sword,
      The bowstring smoked from the strain
      Death sat on the spears, rumbling in the womb,
      Enemies fell into the mud, screaming for mercy
      The conquerors surrendering to mercy.

      But not all staying alive
      He kept kindness in kindness
      Defending your good name
      From the notorious lie of a scoundrel.

      Well, if the horse bit a bit
      And the hand on the spear fell comfortably
      Well, if you know where the arrow came from,
      Worse - if mean, because of the angle.

      How are you doing with the bastards? Beat? Share!
      Witches do not scare you with the coven?
      But isn't it, evil is called evil
      Even there - in your good future?


      And forever and ever
      A coward, a traitor - we always despise
      The enemy is the enemy, and war is still war,
      And the dungeon is cramped, and freedom is one -
      And we always trust in her.

      Time has not erased these understandings,
      You just need to raise the upper layer -
      And steaming blood from my throat
      Feelings of eternal gush on us.

      Now, it’s old, forever and ever, antiquity, -
      And price is price, and wine is wine,
      And it’s always good if honor is saved,
      If the other's back is securely covered.

      We take purity, simplicity from the ancients,
      Sagas, fairy tales - dragging from the past, -
      Because good remains good -
      In the past, future and present!
      1. rich 31 January 2020 10: 17 New
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        Chinon Castle ... But isn't he the very residence of the famous Cardinal Richelieu, with its legendary throne room?
      2. vladcub 31 January 2020 13: 47 New
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        Aerodom, thanks for the verses
    2. kalibr 31 January 2020 09: 31 New
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      Quote: 3x3zsave
      But did any of the brothers infringe on Richard’s rights?

      John was always plotting to him ...
      1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 10: 30 New
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        But it was the activity of Richard that ruined the state.
        1. kalibr 31 January 2020 10: 47 New
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          And how could he admit this? Ha!
          1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 16: 13 New
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            I misunderstood the phrases, Vyacheslav Olegovich ...
            1. kalibr 31 January 2020 17: 32 New
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              Well, he, Richard did not think so! He considered himself the father of the fatherland.
              1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 18: 10 New
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                Yes, he wanted to spoil this paternity from the highest point of the Chateau-Gaillard!
        2. vladcub 31 January 2020 13: 49 New
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          Anton, when did you read Ivanhoe and then thought so?
          1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 13: 52 New
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            My respect, Vlad! Of course not.
    3. vladcub 31 January 2020 13: 44 New
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      Anton, actually Prince John looked at Richard’s throne, did they read Ivanhoe? Monk So, the Vampa jester, the noble Cedric, Brian de Baugelberg.
      It so happened that Aivengo read at 20 and that was a mess, and if he read at school. I would surely be drunk. Thank God it’s not a kid, but several years ago I was pleased to re-read Ivego and Quentin Dorward.
  2. Free wind 31 January 2020 07: 59 New
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    Seeing this Joan of Arc. I would immediately order her to be burned. It is not surprising that she recognized the dauphin; she knew that everyone who saw her for the first time clutched at her heart. Karl met her a second time, well, and was ready for what he saw. On the miniature, an extremely “attractive” Madame, such a nose, a lovely sight, musical fingers ........ A very interesting article, thank you. It amazes me in all these castles, column towers .... they stood for hundreds and thousands of years, and look more or less like that, this castle was abandoned about 400 years ago, they began to rebuild a bit 70 years ago. We have landowner houses built in 1900, used up to 50-60, where under a sanatorium, where under an orphanage, etc., about 50 years were abandoned. After 50 years they turned into a pile of broken brick.
    1. kalibr 31 January 2020 09: 30 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      After 50 years, they turned into a pile of broken brick.

      That is the reason. Their stone castles are our brick buildings. By the way, the crusaders castles of brick in the Kaliningrad region., Also piles of brick.
      1. vladcub 31 January 2020 14: 14 New
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        V. O., and in the photo "royal chambers" like brick ?. When I immediately looked, I thought- brick
      2. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 16: 38 New
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        By the way, the crusaders castles of brick in the Kaliningrad region., Also piles of brick.
        I think in the Kaliningrad region the reason is somewhat different - Soviet artillery.
        Although, in principle, everything is true. As I have already written many times, limestone blocks (the vast majority of castles are made of them), laid on a sand-lime mixture, eventually acquire the properties of a monolith.
        1. kalibr 31 January 2020 17: 33 New
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          Quote: 3x3zsave
          the reason is somewhat different - Soviet artillery

          Before her, many fell apart. There are paintings by romantic artists. They loved the ruins to paint.
          1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 18: 33 New
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            And the Parthenon, in part, still stands! Although, how many nations participated in the "collapse"!
    2. vladcub 31 January 2020 14: 31 New
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      Wind, you are 589 liters late. On May 31, 1431, Bishop Cauchon gave such an order.
      Maybe it’s good that you were late: at least they won’t curse you
    3. Catfish 31 January 2020 14: 59 New
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      Well, Alexander, different artists saw her in different ways, but nobody really knows how she looked. request
      1. Astra wild 31 January 2020 18: 13 New
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        This is all the charm: every Frenchman is not indifferent to his story in different ways presents it
  3. Olgovich 31 January 2020 09: 36 New
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    Chinon Castle Clock Tower - View from the inside the castle. The little turret protruding from the wall at the second floor level is tunic

    On the outside, more hygienic ... recourse
  4. Undecim 31 January 2020 10: 41 New
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    4. View of the royal chambers of Chinon Castle
    Here it is worth clarifying that this is a view of the royal chambers before reconstruction, that is, until 2006.
    1. Undecim 31 January 2020 10: 43 New
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      And today, the view of the royal chambers has changed significantly.
      1. Undecim 31 January 2020 10: 47 New
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        The main idea of ​​the restoration is to restore Forteresse royale de Chinon to its historical appearance.
  5. Free wind 31 January 2020 10: 52 New
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    Dear author, are all captions under the pictures correct? At VO, the authors convince. that in Europe, residents spoiled in dwellings, under beds, in corners, under stairs, then they collected all this in pots and poured it on passers-by on their heads, passers-by bought hats and were very offended if they didn’t get waste: I bought a hat, but I don’t horrible never. There probably cannot be a separate toilet in Europe. wink Next in the picture is the execution. What kind of execution ... uh, well, economy class or something, gloomy citizens, some masters are also not happy, but what did they want? You would have thrown some money and you would have made more bonfires, and since there is no money, well, you stay there. They put two gavriks on their knees ...... an armful of firewood and the Templar is ready. Zindan where the detainees were kept, a lot of incomprehensible, this inclined tray for what? They poured potatoes on it, or cabbage with beetroot ?. Of course, most likely for rainwater runoff, but the decision is moot. There are some windows on the left side, you can try to get out of them, it’ll be hard at the top, you will need to use the gutter ... I’m not a connoisseur of fireplaces, but it seems from the coals, there should be some kind of protection from the ash, and there’s just a bonfire on the floor will burn. Jeanne dARC, of ​​course, a specific beauty, the King sits, smiles, probably lures, and he has prepared his stick, he thinks probably: come closer, I’ll drag you in to make sure you get a muffler. The monk narrowed his eyes. Looks like the same denouement is waiting. But the fraer with a tambourine ...... for sure Reptiloid from Nabiburu. or who is he? He comes from Jeanne, but the stupid thing is turned to her, the head is turned 180 degrees, how can this be ????????
    1. Undecim 31 January 2020 13: 09 New
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      I am not a connoisseur of fireplaces, but it seems from the coals, from the ashes there should be some kind of protection, but here the fire will just burn on the floor

      Fireplace of the XV century. "Explanatory Dictionary of French Architecture of the XI-XVI Century" of 1854. Posted by Viollet-le-Duc.
    2. kalibr 31 January 2020 15: 38 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      At VO, the authors convince. that in Europe, residents spoiled in dwellings, under beds, in corners, under stairs, then they collected all this in pots and poured it on passers-by on their heads, passers-by bought hats and were very offended if they didn’t get waste: I bought a hat, but I don’t horrible never. There probably cannot be a separate toilet in Europe.

      Some kind of nonsense ... I wrote about this more than once ...
      1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 16: 54 New
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        Unpromising, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
        There are three well-established myths about the Middle Ages:
        1. Creepy unsanitary conditions
        2. The Great and Terrible Inquisition
        3. Disempowerment of women
        1. Kronos 31 January 2020 17: 14 New
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          Lawlessness of women is not a myth. Real rights began to be received only from the middle of the 19th century
          1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 17: 32 New
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            From the second half of the 19th century, creatures physiologically belonging to the female sex began to receive rights. But in fact, evil disgusting bitch, which no one wants.
            1. Kronos 31 January 2020 17: 46 New
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              Just the bravo of the right to education as in men, the ability to conduct business, and access to professions is needed only for those who are not handsome
              1. Astra wild 31 January 2020 18: 14 New
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                Bravo. Well said
              2. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 18: 45 New
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                Do the names of Alienor of Aquitaine and Cristina of Pisa tell you nothing? Meanwhile, the latter was by no means a special crown ...
                As for commoners, during the time of Saint Louis in Paris there was a guild of bathhouse attendants, in which, 80 percent were women.
              3. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 19: 13 New
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                Simply, rights often turned out to be equal (we look at the butts of Richard the Lionheart and Tancred of Sicily), and education is much higher (we look at the signatures of Anna Yaroslavna and her husbands)
                1. Kronos 31 January 2020 19: 17 New
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                  You especially tell me about the royal ones, I am talking about the education of wide layers of women, access to universities where the students were almost exclusively men.
                  1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 19: 28 New
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                    I tell you that women in the Middle Ages were not pariahs, cattle, or a machine for replication. Medieval universities are solely an instrument of the Church, which, as a result, has gone out of control.
                    1. Kronos 31 January 2020 19: 33 New
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                      Machine tools were precisely the ability to conceive children and was especially considered one of the most important for marriages and could be the cause of divorce. or do you think the birth of numerous children, each of which could be the last for any woman, regardless of situation, without the possibility of an official abortion, was nothing?
                      1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 19: 43 New
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                        And you do not connect the destruction of the pan-European culture of "midwives" with the development of the "university"?
        2. kalibr 31 January 2020 17: 29 New
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          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Creepy Unsanitary
          2. The Great and Terrible Inquisition
          3. Disempowerment of women

          It is a myth. 1. Creepy yes, but not everywhere and not always!
          2. Great and creepy, but Protestants burned more people!
          3. Lawlessness - yes, but many women ruled, led
          troops, owned taverns, mills, taverns, participated in the courts of honor, fought in dueling.
          1. Kronos 31 January 2020 17: 49 New
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            These were rare exceptions either for the Vikings where there was no such division by gender. And so, for example, Catherine 2 could rule Russia, but this did not affect the general situation of women in the country
            1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 19: 11 New
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              Quote: Kronos
              Ekaterina 2

              This is far from the Middle Ages.
              However, in the Middle Ages, women often played a significant role both in politics and in any other growth of human activity. There are a lot of examples, just bother looking for them. Offhand: Princess Olga, Queen Anna Yaroslavna, Queen Isabella the French She-Wolf, Eleanor of Aquitaine, Taydulla, the wife of Khan Janibek, a whole platoon of Byzantine empresses, all kinds of Theodora, Anna, etc., it’s just that, from the sheet. Rummage - in every century you can find literally outstanding women who have made a good career.
              1. Kronos 31 January 2020 19: 13 New
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                No one argues that there were such women, only they were usually in their countries the same rare cases as we have people of the level of Lomonos in the 18th century
              2. Korsar4 31 January 2020 20: 50 New
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                They say that Anna Yaroslavna was shocked by French morals.
                1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 20: 58 New
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                  Quote: Korsar4
                  They say that Anna Yaroslavna was shocked by French morals.

                  If you are talking about, supposedly, her letter to her father, a letter, then this is an obvious parody, written just to neigh. I do not understand how some people take this joke seriously. I think that all the insinuations about Anna Yaroslavna are based on this “letter”. The fact that Anna was more educated and more developed culturally than the court of her husband is perhaps true, but no more.
                  1. Korsar4 31 January 2020 21: 13 New
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                    The letter, of course, is a parody. And not even pretending to be anything. But what "fun" is that at the French court, that at the papal court they differed from the Kiev way of life - this is believed.
                    1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 21: 21 New
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                      Quote: Korsar4
                      And not even pretending to be anything.

                      I met people who take it for genuine. Even, in my opinion, here on the site.
                      Quote: Korsar4
                      "fun" that at the French court, that at the papal, differed from the Kiev way

                      It could not be otherwise. Different cultures, different religions, different climates - everything is different. Russia absorbed the culture of Byzantium, the Frankish kingdom by that time had been cultivating its own, even with Roman yeast, for half a millennium.
          2. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 17: 57 New
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            Vyacheslav Olegovich, to convince contemporaries in relation to the Middle Ages - the Sisyphus labor writers tried too much. Including the respected Umberto Eco.
        3. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 18: 51 New
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          Quote: 3x3zsave
          There are three well-established myths about the Middle Ages

          Note that all three are not related to Russia. We have baths, peaceful Orthodoxy and a woman at a common table with men. All that you have listed is only backward and wild Europe. laughing
          1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 20: 27 New
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            Of course! They shaved there exclusively with an awl, washed twice in their lives, at baptism and burial service, and propagated exclusively by budding. How else could a knight appear?
            And the women? Well, cattle and no more, such as a goat.
            I suspect that the modernizing lady may now ban me, but against all the will of God laughing
            1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 20: 40 New
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              Quote: 3x3zsave
              propagated exclusively by budding

              Do not exaggerate, Anton. Of course, in medieval Europe, debauchery, pederasty and sodomy reigned, therefore, the process of reproduction encountered significant difficulties, because it was so difficult for a peasant to choose only if he could accidentally get where he needed to. But they couldn’t think of budding, otherwise they will have to admit that already at that time these savages owned cloning technologies, and "this cannot be, because this can never happen." laughing
              But seriously, you are right - it’s very difficult to get rid of some misconceptions imposed on society by irresponsible authors. Especially if they allow you to look down on the rest.
              1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 20: 49 New
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                I am not exaggerating! The connection between Richard and de Bourne is a practically proven fact, an employee of the Russian Guard held a candle! laughing
          2. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 20: 39 New
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            Mikhail, it’s already pleasing that on the first two points there were no objections laughing
    3. Astra wild 31 January 2020 16: 12 New
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      "The townspeople are gloomy, the masters are also some kind of dissatisfied," Wind, but didn’t you think that people feel sorry for the martyrs? It is possible that the townspeople a few years ago looked reverently at: Jacques de Molay and Joffroy de Charnet and suddenly they see them at the stake this is not psychologically easy.
      For example, I am not pleased to look at other people's torment
      1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 17: 16 New
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        For example, I am not pleased to look at other people's torment
        This is for you, Beautiful Stranger!
        And in the Middle Ages (and much later), execution - the first "fun"! How many emotions! "Pierre, Marie, look how jerking! Pierre, if today, before dinner, you say:" Thank you, Lord, for this havchik! ", Under the rods you will twitch in the same way!"
        Although, I think, Parisians would celebrate Nogare’s burning with great enthusiasm.
        1. Astra wild 31 January 2020 18: 17 New
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          Forgive my ignorance, but I do not know who the Others are, that his burning will please Parisians. We somehow forgot to introduce
          1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 18: 58 New
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            Oh sorry! Let me introduce you Guy de Nogare! Rare bastard and the greatest state! Forerunner Richelieu.
            1. Astra wild 1 February 2020 14: 13 New
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              Thank you for introducing me. Somehow I’ll "talk" with him. Curious than so annoyed Parisians
              1. 3x3zsave 1 February 2020 14: 37 New
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                I'll tell you later, okay? Maybe not today. Unsubscribe in PM.
  6. God save the king 31 January 2020 11: 36 New
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    Below is a monotonous town of the same stone.
    Was it built from the remains of the fortress?
  7. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 12: 52 New
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    Thanks to the author for the next virtual trip. smile
    A few notes:
    in 1044 he was captured by Joffrey Martel, Duke of Anjou

    I think that here it is necessary to decide how to name this nobleman - in accordance with the French tradition, English or in Latin. In French, he is still Geoffrey, and so, probably rightly, for only kings are accepted to be called Latin names, such as Henry, John, Karl, although they are already starting to abandon this practice. The nobleman (by the way, Geoffrey was not a duke, but "just" a count is also an inaccuracy) is usually called as contemporaries called them. Moreover, the author used the nickname "Martel" in French pronunciation. Somehow you need to come to one standard: Geoffrey Martel, Joffrey Martel, or Gottfried Hammer, finally. smile
    Then the Plantagenet crown was inherited by Richard's brother, John, nicknamed Landless.

    Same. Jean Santer (Fr.) John Lackland (English) or John Landless (Latin-Russian).
    Next.
    adopted another Plantagenet nickname - “Gorse Flower”, which was depicted on his coat of arms

    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are not new to European heraldry ... The gorse flower was just an emblem, the "badge" of Geoffrey the Beautiful (remember the Wars of the Roses smile ), who liked to tie a twig of this plant to his helmet (probably wanted to be even more beautiful smile ) The coat of arms of the Counts of Anjou, and later the Plantagenets, was completely different, it is known to everyone.
    Something else was noted in my head, but while writing it, I forgot. I’ll remember later. smile
    Thanks again for the material. hi
    1. kalibr 31 January 2020 15: 36 New
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      All right! But for me, as for you - while I was writing in my head, I got up to take out the garbage and forgot what to write ..
  8. Operator 31 January 2020 13: 44 New
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    Masculine Jeanne / Jean from a picture of 1484 laughing


    The middle finger of Jeanne / Jean's right hand of unnatural length depicts a phallic symbol - a hint of the artist?
    1. Astra wild 31 January 2020 15: 23 New
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      The artist is clearly not Rubens or Raphael, but it is unlikely that the artist thought about this symbol
      1. Operator 31 January 2020 16: 59 New
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        But what, you must be sure to Rubens / Raphael, so as not to depict the raised middle finger? laughing

        You shouldn’t fit in with the French - now tolerance rules the ball, and Jeanne’s non-traditional orientation will be accepted with a bang.
        1. vladcub 31 January 2020 18: 09 New
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          In fact, tolerance is now not only in France.
        2. Astra wild 31 January 2020 18: 29 New
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          Colleague Operator, 1) why did you conclude that Jean was not of a traditional orientation. Do you have confirmation of this?
          2) maybe I lagged behind modern standards of morality, but I considered and consider it not quite ethical to say disgusting people like Jean d'Arc
          1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 18: 55 New
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            Quote: Astra wild
            I thought and I think it’s not completely ethical to say disgusting people like Jean d'Arc

            Hello Astra. smile Let me note, it is unlikely that you will be able to explain something to a person who sees the middle finger, where there is a place to be pointing. smile
            1. Astra wild 31 January 2020 19: 19 New
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              You rightly noticed that it’s so difficult to interpret something
  9. vladcub 31 January 2020 14: 40 New
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    Quote: 3x3zsave
    My respect, Vlad! Of course not.

    So I thought. An interesting picture is obtained: when we read the musketeers of Dumas, we felt the queen and burned with anger at Cardinal Richelieu, but in reality the cardinal was much better than they thought about him. Or Richard the Lionheart, thanks to the literature we are fascinated by Richard, and as a leader he was a weakling
    1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 16: 20 New
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      It is for this purpose that it makes sense to study history so as not to remain captive to the illusions created by fiction writers.
    2. Kronos 31 January 2020 17: 15 New
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      A weakling would be his brother, Prince John, who signed the charter and Richard was rather adventurous as Karl 12 and died just like him
      1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 18: 59 New
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        Quote: Kronos
        Weakling would his brother Prince John

        The fact that John is a wimp does not prevent Richard from becoming a wimp. smile
        And I must say that the starting positions at the beginning of the reign of both were completely different. In this case, I would note that the cause of the trouble of the crown inherited from his father by Richard, was mainly Richard himself. smile
        1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 20: 58 New
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          Absolutely right! The father, of course, also tried by squeezing the bride from his son, but, son - this is something !!!! Even the Romanovs could not give birth to more!
          1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 21: 12 New
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            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Even the Romanovs could not give birth to more!

            Here I do not agree ... The last Romanovs in terms of creating and cultivating devastation beyond competition.
            Matrimonial whims of old Henry, probably, could have some significance for the outbreak of strife, but, I think, for Richard the royal throne was still much more attractive than the royal bed. smile
            Moreover, in the light of the fact that someone was holding a candle there, although here I doubt it ... smile
            1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 21: 22 New
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              I think for Richard, in the system of his values, the royal throne was only a support for narcissism.
              1. Trilobite Master 31 January 2020 21: 32 New
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                What is the coolest and most expensive show-off? Perhaps, probably, it was so.
                1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 21: 41 New
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                  Well, apparently, he wanted to become the most famous knight in Europe, he became one. Along the way, he miscalculated everything that the crowned overlord could do.
        2. Engineer 1 February 2020 16: 45 New
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          It’s generally a common place to blame Richard for his inability or low ability to manage. But when I read about him, I drew attention to the stretch of this version. Richard is often quite pragmatic and intelligent. Depressed Cyprus and sold profitably. "Liberated" Scotland for money.
          The most common argument was losing the opposition to Philip, but this is a stretch. All the successes of Philip happened while Richard was in captivity, as soon as the latter returned the cup began to lean toward him. An indicative rejection of vassal status was being prepared. But here is this crossbow bolt ... In war, as in war.
          That ruined the kingdom is certainly a fair reproach, but then again there were no strong bankers to support the crown in spending. So our hero was spinning. And not without success. Edward from first to third in this regard were in more favorable conditions. Anyway, the British Empire developed on credit.
          And militarily there can be no complaints against him. I have not lost a single battle. He did not make strategic blunders. And always in the forefront. Straight Pyrrhus of Epirus and even better.
          1. Trilobite Master 2 February 2020 13: 57 New
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            Quote: Engineer
            blame Richard for his inability or low ability to manage

            Actually, his abilities in this matter are easily assessed by the objective results of his reign, and they, in my opinion, are quite eloquent, both economic and military with political ones. What honor is there in not losing a single battle, while not winning a single war? smile
            1. Engineer 2 February 2020 14: 08 New
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              Look the other way, Richard didn't lose not a single war.
              And the fact that he was not a weakling and politically, too, I already wrote.
              1. Trilobite Master 3 February 2020 10: 27 New
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                Quote: Engineer
                Richard did not lose a single war.

                It depends on what is considered a victory or a defeat. Based on the goals and outcomes, he lost almost all the wars that he waged.
                The crusade can be attributed to failures, since the main goal - the return of Jerusalem was not achieved, despite several bright victories.
                The war with Philip can also be considered lost, because Richard could not return what Philip had taken from him.
                Well, if you recall his first war with his father, then there can be no two opinions at all - an obvious defeat.
                All these wars and conflicts can be called successful for Richard only if we assume that their goal was solely to achieve the personal glory of the valiant knight. He really achieved this goal.
                1. Engineer 3 February 2020 10: 35 New
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                  The crusade can be attributed to failures, since the main goal - the return of Jerusalem was not achieved, despite several bright victories.

                  Definitely a failure, but there can be no complaints against Richard. His "partners" simply washed their hands and he was left alone.
                  The war with Philip can also be considered lost, because Richard could not return what Philip had taken from him.

                  I couldn’t, but Philip took it not from him but from John. And it will be more correct before.
                  Well, if you recall his first war with his father, then there can be no two opinions at all - an obvious defeat.

                  The rebellion was led by Henry III at the instigation of Eleanor. Richard was one of many adherents. He does not bear responsibility for the general failure of the case.
                  1. Trilobite Master 3 February 2020 10: 58 New
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                    All this is pure lyricism.
                    Quote: Engineer
                    "partners" just washed their hands

                    And why? Could it be that Richard’s lack of political and diplomatic talents with disproportionate ambitions? In any case, the result was unsatisfactory.
                    Quote: Engineer
                    I couldn’t, but Philip took it not from him but from John. And it will be more correct before.

                    The king was Richard. But "did not have time" - this is generally from a series of subjunctive moods in history. We only have "failed." Philip was able to take, but Richard could not return.
                    Quote: Engineer
                    The rebellion was led by Henry III at the instigation of Eleanor.

                    What does it change? Or do you want to say that the total defeat of a coalition cannot be counted individually for each of its members? This approach seems strange to me. And then, what does it mean "led"? Each of the participants in the strife pursued its own goals, only the one who managed to achieve them can be considered the winner, and the loser - who did not, can it not?
                    1. Engineer 3 February 2020 16: 40 New
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                      And why? Could it be that Richard’s lack of political and diplomatic talents with disproportionate ambitions?

                      Do you know, why. Pike swan and cancer. Two bears do not agree, and three more so.
                      Well, Richard was not a stupid politician. He could negotiate and created alliances. Another thing is that you cannot call him a good politician. I do not call.
                      King was Richard

                      Here is a wide field for ratings. Is it possible to blame the owner that in his absence the neighbors pinched the cottage ?. Everyone is responsible for himself.
                      Each of the participants in the strife pursued their own goals, the winner can

                      That's right, Richard participated at the baron level. At first I decided to speak out against my father, then I made peace. This is how to participate in the tournament.
                      The main claim to Richard was unable to abandon the sovereignty of France. Well, this was not possible for his father, and he is considered much more capable as a king. Richard even came closer to this.
                      1. Trilobite Master 4 February 2020 10: 14 New
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                        Quote: Engineer
                        was not Richard a stupid politician

                        He was active, ambitious, and equally impulsive and stupid. A man of one day, a kind of sprinter. I absolutely did not know how to think over the position for the move forward.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Is it possible to blame the owner that in his absence neighbors pinched the cottage?

                        It is possible if at the time of his departure he left an irresponsible manager in the country.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        then reconciled.

                        After a series of painful lesions.
                        As a result, all his undertakings had some initial success, but ended up turning into nothing, ending, if not a catastrophe, then, in any case, worsening the situation compared to the starting one. Sometimes it seems that it would be better if he did nothing at all, but for this he was too energetic. Therefore, his assessment as a ruler is completely unflattering.
    3. Katanikotael 31 January 2020 20: 28 New
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      What kind of sympathy can there be for a slutty lady who, in order to hide her shame, hires badits in uniform? I never understood why these scumbags are so idealized.
  10. Astra wild 31 January 2020 15: 17 New
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    V.O., I suppose that you have a lot of plans, but not enough time. Perhaps you will find the opportunity and “introduce” us to: Thibault the Fraudster and other characters. Oh very intriguing nickname
    1. kalibr 31 January 2020 15: 33 New
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      Quote: Astra wild
      Thibault the Fraudster and other characters.

      We need to think ... Now, for example, archive material written in November is being printed ...
      1. tanit 31 January 2020 17: 12 New
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        Vyacheslav Olegovich, what about the Ainu? laughing
        Forgive me ... recourse laughing
        1. kalibr 31 January 2020 17: 21 New
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          I remember, I remember ... but not yet. But there is little information. You have to get in touch with the museum in Hokkaido, this is troublesome. Need time.
          1. tanit 31 January 2020 17: 30 New
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            And how difficult is it to contact the museum in Hokkaido?
            1. tanit 31 January 2020 17: 30 New
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              What exactly do they need?
              1. kalibr 31 January 2020 19: 03 New
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                Them? They don’t need anything. Im so good. I need to ask a lot about them and ask for permission ... and ... in a word, this is not so simple.
            2. kalibr 31 January 2020 19: 04 New
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              Already contacted. But you need to write a request, explain what exactly I want to receive, what exactly I want to receive, what they have. In a word - to establish a cultural dialogue. I am to them, they are to me. The worst thing is that they may not answer. In any case, wait until Monday.
              1. 3x3zsave 31 January 2020 21: 34 New
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                "Monday begins on Saturday" (C)
                I've been living this way all my life. God willing will lie down in the ground like Boris Natanovich.
  11. faterdom 31 January 2020 18: 14 New
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    Quote: 3x3zsave
    But did any of the brothers infringe on Richard’s rights?

    See "Ivanhoe" by W. Scott.
    In general, at first the brothers were against Pope Henry II, then, of course, Prince John (John) intensely intrigued against Richard LS, and their mother Alienor of Aquitaine managed to visit both the wife of one English king, and the mother of two more, and in addition, the wife of the French king, and took part in the crusade. Epic characters who provided material for many poems, legends, songs and novels.
  12. Crimea26 31 January 2020 18: 50 New
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    I look at medieval engravings and don’t understand - did their children draw something ??? Wasn’t there a single person who could draw normally? It seems that they were able to make drawings, and the sculpture was quite normal - but no matter how the drawing - everything at random, a complete violation of proportions and perspectives ... Or is the abuse of spirits affected?
    1. kalibr 31 January 2020 19: 01 New
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      Quote: Crimea26
      and the sculpture was quite normal

      No, the sculpture was not too normal either ...
  13. Operator 31 January 2020 18: 52 New
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    Quote: Astra wild
    i'm behind

    1) Jeanne liked to wear men's dresses (on which one of the points of charges in court was based) and did not pay attention to men.
    2) You are behind, but only from the French.
  14. Astra wild 31 January 2020 19: 25 New
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    Quote: Operator
    Quote: Astra wild
    i'm behind

    1) Jeanne liked to wear men's dresses (on which one of the points of charges in court was based) and did not pay attention to men.
    2) You are behind, but only from the French.

    And you try in a woman’s dress to ride a horse and climb walls. Keep in mind that women did not yet have an idea about panties. There will be a charming scene: she climbs the stairs, while others look under her skirt
    1. kalibr 31 January 2020 19: 45 New
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      By the way, the church allowed her to wear men's clothing!
  15. Korsar4 31 January 2020 20: 45 New
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    Plantagenets - leaves because of a gorse flower. Thank. I will lively imagine.