Combat aircraft. When down to the whole world ...


The bomber from the Ju-86 failed. The plane became obsolete before it dropped the first bombs from its compartments back in Spain, it was sold for export quite normally, but in the Luftwaffe it didn’t go in for many reasons, which there is no sense to disassemble.


The fact is that the Ju-86Z (from Zivil - civilian), a 10-seater passenger aircraft, which became the progenitor of military modifications, is so different from our hero that it simply does not make sense to follow the entire development of the aircraft. Let's just say: Ju-86P was just actually a different aircraft. With completely different tasks and opportunities.

The military life of the Ju-86 bombers of the A, B, C, D, E and G series was more than short. By the beginning of World War II, the Luftwaffe generally had one single unit armed with these aircraft.

But the fate of the scouts of the P and R series was completely different.

It all started with a tacit competition of German and Soviet designers in the development of the stratosphere. That is, the goal was to create an aircraft capable of climbing as high as possible.

In the USSR, the BOK team (Bureau of Special Structures) worked quite normally on stratospheric aircraft under the guidance of the most talented designer Vladimir Antonovich Chizhevsky.

Combat aircraft. When down to the whole world ...

The team developed the gondolas of the first Soviet stratostats “Osoaviahim-1” and “USSR-1”, aircraft BOK-1, BOK-5, BOK-7, BOK-11, BOK-15. But the aircraft did not go into the series, despite the fact that in 1940 the BOK-11 was built in two copies and successfully passed the tests.


Preparations were made for a long-range high-altitude flight, but in the pre-war situation such flights could no longer take place. BOK was included in the OKB P.O. Sukhoi.

But Hugo Junkers beat the competition and kept all the best practices in the strictest confidence. By the way, it was precisely the moment that the Germans showed nothing of their achievements to the Soviet delegations that played an important role in the fate of the stratospheric BOK aircraft, which served as an excuse for stopping work on the BOK-11.

Yes, the “100” high-altitude fighter with pressurized cabs was also sent to the scrap.

But quietly, the Germans continued to work on a super-high-altitude aircraft, and that's what they ended up with.

Firstly, it finally turned out an engine that could be used in such aircraft. This is the Junkers Jumo-207 diesel engine with two centrifugal superchargers: the first with an exhaust drive, the second with a mechanical drive and with an intercooler.


At the same time, the Junkers worked out a program for high-altitude flights using pressurized cabins.

Then began the creation of the aircraft. Today there are several versions on the topic of which model of the 86th made the modification. There are opinions that from the “D” series, I adhere to the opinion voiced by Viktor Nikolayevich Shunkov that the Ju-86P was created on the basis of the Ju-86G, which was just different from other models with the cockpit forward-shifted and the increased glazing of the pilot's and navigator's cockpits. Yes, the Ju-86G was a continuation of the work on the Ju-86E.


On the basis of the Ju-86G, they made the Ju-86P, inscribing a two-person pressurized cabin in the bow. In fact, a new nose was made with special glazing from double Plexiglas panels with air dried between the glasses.

The pressure in the cabin was maintained equivalent to a height of 3000 m, air pressurization was taken from the left engine. Access to the cabin was very peculiar, through the lower hatch.


The first prototype of the Ju.86P V1 took off in February 1940, and a month later the V2 circled. During the tests, both aircraft with a pair of Jumo 207A-1 diesel engines rose to a height of over 10 m. On the third prototype with a wing of an increased area, the Ju-000P could fly 86 m for more than 11 hours.

Representatives of the Luftwaffe liked the test results so much that they ordered 40 cars in two versions.

The first variant of the Ju.86P-1 was a super-high-speed bomber capable of carrying 4 bombs of 250 kg or 16 bombs of 50 kg each.


In addition to bombs, the Ju-86P-1 was armed with a remotely controlled installation with a MG-17 rifle-caliber machine gun. Not very luxurious weapons, but the very essence of using a bomber somehow did not imply air battles at all.

The combat flight plan was as follows: the plane took off, then climbed 11 m. This altitude was to be reached after 000 minutes of flight. After that, the flight continued at this altitude, at a cruising speed of 45 km / h.

Climbing up to 200 m began 12 km from the target. This altitude was reached 000 km from the target. Then began a decrease in a sort of half-diving to a height of 100-9500 meters, from where the bombs were dropped. Then again followed a leisurely climb of 10000 meters and return to the airfield.

The fuel supply consisted of 1000 liters, which ensured a four-hour flight.

In general, even considering the excellent German sights and optics, we will not talk about how accurate the bombing was from such a height. It was work on the areas "somewhere", nothing more.

The Ju.86P-2 scout, which became the second option, was a more interesting machine.


The armament of the scout consisted of three automatic cameras. He did not need a machine gun at all, since not a single fighter of that time could even theoretically rise to the working height of this aircraft.

As for the anti-aircraft artillery, the ground observation posts had to somehow manage to somehow detect a plane flying at such a height.


In the summer of 1940, one of the prototypes in the test rank entered the intelligence unit of the Luftwaffe main command and was immediately aimed at reconnaissance of objects in Great Britain. In the first flight, the Ju.86P-2 reached an altitude of 12500 m and returned undetected.

Several scouts concentrated in the 2nd Squadron and in the same year they often appeared over the base of the British fleet in Scapa Flow. From that moment in Germany, if weather conditions allowed, they knew about the movements of the British fleet, almost all.

The British were brutal, but so far they could not do anything and were frantically looking for methods to combat Ju.86P. Meanwhile, Ju.86P-1 bombers began to send greetings to British cities, but this, we rightly note, were intimidation actions, nothing more.

The air disgrace (from the point of view of the British) continued until August 1942, when the hastily modified Spitfire of the 6th series, as light as possible, with an extended wing and a pressurized cabin allegedly shot down Ju.86P-2 at an altitude of 12 meters.

Understanding perfectly what this hastily cobbled-up interceptor was, I express my distrust of this information.

I must say that the pressurized cabin of the "six", or "type 350", caused a lot of complaints. If in fact, then it did not give much benefit to the pilot, maintaining the pressure in the cockpit only 0,15 atmospheres higher than overboard.

There were complaints about the compressor, which drove oil fumes into the cab. The rubber seals through which the cables passed made control of the aircraft very difficult. The lantern in flight could not be opened, so leaving the plane in the event of an accident was the same test for the nerves. But most importantly, the ceiling of the Six did not exceed 12 m, and even then, under ideal conditions.

For the entire 1942th year there was only one case when the interceptor was able to open fire on Ju.86P, located above it, but at the same time lost speed. The Junkers calmly with a decline left Spitfire.

In 1942, the “six” was transformed into the “seven”, equipped with an injection system of liquid oxygen into the engine. This raised the ceiling by about 600 m and speed at an altitude of 65-80 km / h. But the Junkers did not stand still, having adjusted the alteration of Ju.86P in Ju.86R, which had higher characteristics.

In general, the British defeated the super-high war with a bang. Especially when Ju.86R appeared.


Ju.86R was also produced in two versions, a scout and a bomber, but a scout took root again.

The aircraft had a wing of even greater scope (32 m), high-altitude Jumo 207В-3 engines with a capacity of 1000 hp, of which “at all” 12 hp remained at an altitude of 000 meters. The engines were equipped with a GM-750 nitrous oxide injection system.

All this provided the opportunity to fly at altitudes of up to 14 meters. The fuel supply (000 liters) was enough for seven hours of flight at a working altitude. The British had nothing to oppose, and Ju.1935 fearlessly flew over the territory of Britain.

But why spare the British if flying over the territory of the USSR was even easier? Which, in fact, the Germans did. With anti-aircraft artillery and radars, everything was much more sad than with the British, about high-altitude interceptors it’s just worth keeping silent.

Yes, our intelligence still managed to overcome all the barriers of German secrecy and still obtain information about Ju.86P. All data was transferred to the Deputy People's Commissar for Experimental Aircraft Engineering and in parallel to designer A.S. Yakovlev.

That is, in 1941, almost a year after the start of the use of aircraft, we learned that the Germans still have a super-high intelligence. But our industry could not provide real opposition.

But measures, albeit on paper, the government took. TsIAM and various aviation Design bureaus, especially those specializing in the creation of fighter jets, were supposed to accelerate the installation of turbocompressors, which increased the altitude of the engines, and submit the aircraft for testing in the shortest possible time.

But alas, we were not able to create normal turbochargers. The level of development of industry was not one at which one could create such a simple and at the same time complex device.

And our VNOS services had only to fix the numerous Ju.86P flights over our territory. Including over Moscow.

Today on the Internet there are many wonderful German snapshot cards made with Ju.86P cameras. It is hard to say how much it cost us in that war.

The picture is clearly drawn by a document dated 1943. On August 23, from the headquarters of the Western Front of Air Defense signed by the commander of the troops M.S. Gromadin, a member of the military council, Major General Orlov and the chief of staff of Nagorny, a report was sent to the commander of the artillery, Marshal N.N. Voronov and People's Commissar A.I. Shakhurin :

“On August 22, 1943, from 08 hours to 40 hours 10 minutes, the enemy carried out reconnaissance of Moscow and its environs with one high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft of the Yu-10R-86 type at an altitude of 1-12000 m.
An enemy aircraft was detected at 7 hours 42 minutes in the Izdeshkovo area and, following the route Vyazma - Kubinka - Zvenigorod - Chkalovskaya - Moscow - Gzhatsk, it left the airborne landing system in the Izdeshkovo area (40 km west of Vyazma).
The enemy was in the fire zone and in the Moscow region for 1 hour 30 minutes (from 8 hours 40 minutes to 10 hours 10 minutes) and three times passed over the city center.
To intercept the enemy, 15 fighters from the Central and Kubinka, Lyubertsy, Inyutino, and Vnukovo airfields were simultaneously lifted, three of them Yak-9, two Spitfire, Aerokobra and MiG-3, and six Yak-1.
Of all the fighter jets raised, only one - Spitfire, piloted by the senior lieutenant of the 16th IAP Semenov, climbed 11500 m and fired at the enemy from cabling, being 500 m below the enemy and 200 m behind. The pilot Semenov used up 30 shells and 450 rounds of ammunition, after which the gun and machine guns refused due to icing. The enemy fired back from the starboard side and from below tracer bullets.
In the Moscow region and on the way back to Mozhaisk, the enemy was chased by pilots:
12th GIAP - junior lieutenant Nalivaiko (Yak-9), who scored only 11100 m;
562nd IAP - Polkanov and Butslov (Yak-1), who scored 9500 m;
28th IAP - Abramov and Evdokimov (“Aerocobra”), who scored 9000 m;
565th IAP - Krupenin and Klimov (MiG-3), who scored 10800 m.
Due to the large difference in altitude, all pilots did not fight. Anti-aircraft artillery fired on the enemy, due to the inaccessibility of the height ...
The fighters available in the Special Moscow Army Air Defense could not gain the necessary height for the battle. The armament of the fighters turned out to be unprepared for firing at high altitudes at low temperatures.
The possibility of the enemy dropping small bombs during similar unpunished flights over Moscow is not ruled out.
Despite the fact that the enemy has been conducting unpunished reconnaissance of Moscow at a high altitude for more than a year, the question of high-altitude fighter aircraft for the capital’s air defense has still not been resolved ... "

Enough, isn't it?

The unpunished flights of the Ju-86R over the capital and other cities continued until June 1944. At the same time, the Soviet air defense failed to bring down any of them.


On the Western Front, the Ju-86R lost their invulnerability, which gave them an advantage in height in mid-1943. On July 2, two Spitfires Mk.IX and several Spitfires Mk.VC at an altitude of 13 m (reliably) intercepted and attacked the Ju-400R N.86 “860292U + IK”.

The plane received a series of hits and, catching fire, abruptly went down, and then at an altitude of 9400 m it fell apart. Both members of his crew died.

In fact, after 1944, the Ju-86R was no longer used due to the appearance of real British interceptors and the termination of the production program for these aircraft. That is, the available aircraft had already exhausted their resources, and instead of new ones, German industry was producing fighter aircraft at an accelerated pace.


However, we can say that the Ju-86P and R completed their mission by shooting a huge number of square kilometers of theaters of military operations, a huge number of maps were made based on the images, and in general, intelligence is intelligence.

Until 1943, when real interceptors appeared, the Ju-86r and R were unique machines that performed their work with impunity. Decent aircraft, which was very difficult to find a council.


LTX Ju.86R-1:

Wingspan, m: 32,00.
Length, m: 16,50.
Height, m: 4,10.
Wing Area, m2: 118,60.
Weight, kg:
- empty aircraft: 7000;
- normal takeoff: 9 410.

Engine: 2 diesel engines "Junkers" Jumo-207В-3 х 1000 hp

Maximum speed, km / h: 360.
Cruising speed, km / h: 285.
Practical range, km: 2.
Practical ceiling, m: 14 000.
Crew, people: 2.
Armament: one machine gun MG-17.

In total, 40 units of Ju-86R-2 and 22 units of Ju-86R-1 were produced.
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  1. polpot 22 January 2020 18: 19 New
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    Thank you interesting article
  2. mark1 22 January 2020 18: 23 New
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    Interesting article. They will probably find some mistakes, but everything was interesting to me. We were tormented with these Junkers by us, which we just did not invent, but in the end the problem resolved by itself.
  3. antivirus 22 January 2020 18: 34 New
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    could not make a turbine. it was only in 1900 that all the peasants needed to be educated and they would raise their children at a different level of technical knowledge. Angels-Americans have achieved 40 g of the result. only by 39 g we eliminated complete illiteracy. from 1939+ 20 years (accelerated! teachers and post-graduate students in the grasslands and closed design bureaus worked) and F Powers shot down
    1. IL-64 22 January 2020 23: 22 New
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      In 1861, serfdom was abolished in Russia, and the first metro was launched in England
      1. Bad_gr 23 January 2020 00: 24 New
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        Quote: IL-64
        In 1861, serfdom was abolished in Russia

        And February 19 2013 years Mississippi was the last US state to officially ratify the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution abolishing slavery.
        1. Bad_gr 23 January 2020 01: 17 New
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          Kentucky abolished slavery (ratified the 13th amendment) in 1976.
        2. Avior 23 January 2020 10: 42 New
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          No, it's cooler. smile
          The state of Mississippi ratified the 13th amendment back in 1995, but the state forgot to send an official paper about this to the Federal Register, and remembered about it only in 2013. smile
      2. Aviator_ 23 January 2020 07: 37 New
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        Do not repeat this advertisement here. The first British metro train pulled locomotive. And so it was 20 years old, only then they created an electric motor for it. So the metro of 1861 is far from the Moscow metro of 1931.
      3. EvilLion 30 January 2020 08: 20 New
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        True, in the United States, slavery was abolished altogether only in the 1865th.
    2. Bad_gr 23 January 2020 00: 19 New
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      Quote: antivirus
      only by 39 g we eliminated complete illiteracy.

      Rumors about complete illiteracy are greatly exaggerated. My grandfather (born in 1901) from a large family (by today's standards) was quite able to unlearn at a parish school and received a normal education (such as our secondary).
      The school was paid for by the father (head of the family). Money was earned in different ways. For example, for the season the whole family was hired by the landowner for various agricultural work.
      1. Aviator_ 23 January 2020 07: 37 New
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        CPH is not "our average", this is our initial (4 classes).
      2. antivirus 23 January 2020 08: 09 New
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        only archives (I did not read them) will show how many people understood EMF induction in 1900. did grandfather teach physics? and x-ray heard? or just knew how to read and sign for a wage and make a complaint about cheating when paying that wage? and did grandfather read newspapers (like Watson and Holmes in the movies) every day?
        THERE IS JUST A GENERAL CULTURE (created over decades - not one literacy), against individual medieval customs; everyone likes to take a walk around hypermarkets and doesn't like expensive goods, but what about "only your volost or province"?
        so turbocharging is created - from the general level of culture, now Rogozin’s cosmos also “slows down” - “I don’t need Mars, they feed us badly here”
        1. Bad_gr 23 January 2020 10: 40 New
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          Quote: antivirus
          only archives (I did not read them) will show how many people understood EMF induction in 1900. did grandfather teach physics? and x-ray heard?

          And my grandfather did not study quantum physics sad , here, yes, completely illiterate.
          1. ser56 23 January 2020 14: 52 New
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            Quote: Bad_gr
            ut, yes, completely illiterate.

            Yes, there wasn’t her yet when he studied at the Central House of Artists ... bully
        2. ser56 23 January 2020 14: 54 New
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          Quote: antivirus
          THERE IS JUST A GENERAL CULTURE

          which was higher among graduates of the tsarist gymnasium than most graduates of Soviet universities who did not know languages, especially the ancient ones ... request
    3. ser56 23 January 2020 14: 51 New
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      Quote: antivirus
      only in 1900

      like Popov, without that, he invented a radio, and Stoletov created a photocell ... and the dreadnoughts built hi
      maybe if the ship’s professors weren’t expelled, then the turbochargers would turn out. .. request
      1. EvilLion 30 January 2020 08: 27 New
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        Nobody sent the professor, they themselves dumped. For you, I’m explaining, the ability of one nobleman, or merchant’s son, to make radio is fundamentally not equivalent to having 99% literacy and an abundance of workers, so that it’s enough not only for armadillos (the dreadnought is another), which then drowned to no purpose, but also for everything other things. Likewise, the ability of the USSR to develop very good computers in the 1960s was smashed to pieces by the lack of the necessary capacities for their production in tens of thousands series, as IBM was able to do by investing in the IBM / 360 program the amounts that were then invested in space.
        1. ser56 30 January 2020 14: 25 New
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          Quote: EvilLion
          Nobody sent the professor, they themselves dumped.

          I recommend learning the history of Russia - while you are a profane ...
          The Philosophical Steam Locomotive is the collective name for the two flights of German passenger ships, Oberbürgermeister Haken (September 29–30, 1922) and Preussen (November 16–17, 1922) [1], which delivered more from Petrograd to Stettin (Germany) 160 opposition representatives of the intelligentsia, including philosophers, expelled from Soviet Russia.
          The operation of the Soviet authorities to expel workers of science and culture abroad was carried out on the initiative of V. I. Lenin in 1922-1923 as part of the fight against dissent [2]. Steamboat flights from Petrograd were not the only ones: expulsions were also carried out on steamboats from Odessa and Sevastopol and by trains from Moscow to Latvia and Germany.
          All deportees were allowed to take with them only two pants, two pairs of socks, a jacket, trousers, a coat, a hat and two pairs of shoes per person; all money and the rest of the property expelled were confiscated. "
          Quote: EvilLion
          I explain to you

          I didn’t drink with you on Brudershaft - if you please ...
          Quote: EvilLion
          make radio fundamentally not equivalent to having 99% literacy

          1) you do not know how to express thoughts, which is not surprising - there are none ...
          2) I’m chewing on you - 99,999% literacy, for example, you spend porn and jokes on reading, but there are few who can invent something ... hi
          Quote: EvilLion
          smashed to smithereens about the lack of necessary capacities for their production in tens of thousands

          But were they needed? by the way - count how much the EU computer was made in the CMEA countries bully
  4. strannik1985 22 January 2020 18: 42 New
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    It should be clarified that by the beginning of reconnaissance flights over the USSR, in preparation for the Barbarossa plan, there were only 6 high-altitude Junkers, 4 Ju-86P-2 and 2 Ju-88B-0 (4 squadrons) in the “Rovel Team”, the main work was done Do-215 and He-111.
  5. knn54 22 January 2020 18: 56 New
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    4-motor TB-7 (Pe-8)
    Machine speed - 400 km / h, flight range - 1200-3800 km, load capacity - 2 tons, practical ceiling - 12000 m. The first flight (ANT-142) took place in the summer of 1938.
    1. WapentakeLokki 22 January 2020 22: 11 New
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      This is in the presence of the fifth (FIFTH CARL) motor (immediately behind the cockpit) which worked as a drive for a turbocharger ... but these same drives for a turbocharger were not mass-produced and therefore they were equipped with a few (and not too numerous) copies. ..so 12 km is NOT FOR ALL Pe-8 ..
      PS By the way, the Deutsch-developed (but not commercially available) Ju-86R3 with two Jumo 208s and an optional DB-605T (as a drive for a turbocharger) .. the planned flight altitude was ~ 16 km
      1. Sandy 23 January 2020 05: 51 New
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        The fifth motor on the Pe-8 turned the compressor. And the turbocharger is driven by a turbine.
    2. Fat
      Fat 23 January 2020 03: 57 New
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      Quote: knn54
      4-motor TB-7 (Pe-8)
      Machine speed - 400 km / h, flight range - 1200-3800 km, load capacity - 2 tons, practical ceiling - 12000 m. The first flight (ANT-142) took place in the summer of 1938.

      Pe 8 was a five-engine. The fifth dagator forced air for traction. Pieces 6 if collected, no more. The stake was placed not on strategic aviation, but on attack ... Pe 8 was the only real strategist of the Soviet Air Force in the 30-40s of the last century.
      1. Alex_You 23 January 2020 04: 55 New
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        Molotov flew to England over the Pe-8 front in 42nd.
        1. Fat
          Fat 23 January 2020 07: 27 New
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          Quote: Alex_You
          Molotov flew to England over the Pe-8 front in 42nd.

          Yes, not a liner ... There is something not to envy. We must pay tribute to both the crew and the passenger.
  6. The leader of the Redskins 22 January 2020 18: 59 New
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    Interesting. I knew Yu 86 and read in passing that there was a variant of a scout, but I did not think that the alteration was so cardinal! Thanks.
    1. Lexus 22 January 2020 19: 59 New
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      Nazarii hi
      The novel decided to go on not the most massive, but, nevertheless, very iconic aircraft. I really like this “smoke break”. For example, in the hatch for getting the crew into the cockpit of the Ju-86P (R) and leaving it, I had never paid attention to my own shame. He knew that he was somewhere, and he was where. Cheap, angry and tight. bully
  7. Alex 1970 22 January 2020 20: 20 New
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    An interesting article, I did not know about such an aircraft before. Thanks, it was informative.
  8. iouris 22 January 2020 20: 21 New
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    They flew to Japan.
    1. Fat
      Fat 23 January 2020 04: 07 New
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      Quote: iouris
      They flew to Japan.

      How? God forgive me. Ferry range of 1700 km, approximately ... At least 5 gas stations ... Where?
  9. BAI
    BAI 22 January 2020 20: 22 New
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    And then everything repeated with U-2. But there they still found the council.
    1. mr.ZinGer 22 January 2020 23: 23 New
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      Before U-2, there were still problems with Canberra (B-57)
  10. Undecim 22 January 2020 20: 44 New
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    For the entire 1942th year there was only one case when the interceptor was able to open fire on Ju.86P, located above it, but at the same time lost speed. The Junkers calmly with a decline left Spitfire.
    This, incidentally, was the highest altitude air battle of the Second World War.
    The Ju-86R-2 was piloted by Horst Goetz, and the Spitfire Mark IX by Emanuel Vladimirovich Golitsyn, the Russian prince, a pilot of the British Royal Air Force. The battle took place at altitudes up to 44 feet (over 000 meters). After the first turn, Spitfire’s weapon failed. but one 13 mm shell hit the wing, which did not stop Junkers from leaving.
    The air disgrace (from the point of view of the British) continued until August 1942, when the hastily modified Spitfire of the 6th series, as light as possible, with an extended wing and a pressurized cabin allegedly shot down Ju.86P-2 at an altitude of 12 meters.
    This battle took place on August 29, 1942 over Alexandria in Egypt. The British considered the attack inconclusive. The fact that the damaged Junkers fell into the sea was reported by the Germans.
    1. mr.ZinGer 22 January 2020 23: 47 New
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      Igor Shelest writes about three Ju 86 shot down over the Mediterranean Sea.
      1. Undecim 23 January 2020 00: 07 New
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        According to German reports, 2. (F) / 123, which was based in Cyprus, lost two Ju 86s when shot down.
        The British also write about two.
  11. eagle owl 22 January 2020 21: 19 New
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    Novel. But can you take you for the massacre of U-87 - over the islands
  12. Santa Fe 22 January 2020 22: 40 New
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    In general, the British defeated the super-high war with a bang. ...

    On the Western Front, the Ju-86R lost their invulnerability, which gave them an advantage in height in mid-1943. July 2, two Spitfires Mk.IX and several Spitfires Mk.VC at an altitude of 13 m

    In fact, after 1944, the Ju-86R was no longer used due to the appearance of real interceptors among the British

    How did they lose if the British defeated the Nazis in the air?

    At any speed and altitude
  13. mr.ZinGer 22 January 2020 23: 43 New
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    In Igor Shelest’s book “I am flying for a dream” there is a description of the interception of Ju 86 over the Mediterranean Sea.
  14. Andrzej k 22 January 2020 23: 48 New
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    diesel Junkers Jumo-205 and Jumo-207 were the starting point for the work of A.D. Charomskogo and de facto ancestors of the engine 5TDF Tank T-64.
    1. trahterist 23 January 2020 02: 26 New
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      In 5TDF, the majority of childhood diseases were eliminated, which were pursued by Junkers divisions.
      The whole epic with these daigatel with RAP was.
      1. Bad_gr 23 January 2020 15: 17 New
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        It is surprising that the Jumo-205 did not complain about reliability, and the fact that it was on the plane speaks for itself. Unlike our tank 5TDF. But Junkers had more sophisticated diesel engines. With three and even four crankshafts. I can’t imagine how this can be collected?



        lowest Jumo-223-04A
        1. NF68 25 January 2020 16: 59 New
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          Quote: Bad_gr
          It is surprising that the Jumo-205 did not complain about reliability, and the fact that it was on the plane speaks for itself. Unlike our tank 5TDF.


          On German tanks and on torpedo boats, Jumo-205/207 also worked irrelevant and refused to use them.

          But Junkers had more sophisticated diesel engines.


          Germans did not finish Jumo-208, Jumo-209, Jumo-223 and Jumo-224 until the end of WWII:

          http://alternathistory.com/dalnejshie-raboty-po-aviatsionnym-6-ti-tsilindrovym-dizelnym-dvigatelyam-firmy-jumo/

          http://alternathistory.com/malenkij-chetyrehugolnyj-dizelnyj-aviatsionnyj-dvigatel-jumo-223-germaniya/

          http://alternathistory.com/bolshoj-aviatsionnyj-dizelnyj-dvigatel-jumo-224-germaniya/
          1. Bad_gr 25 January 2020 19: 35 New
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            Thanks for the information.
  15. svp67 23 January 2020 05: 30 New
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    In childhood, as a little book came across with the memory of our test pilot about attempts to create our interceptor for these high-altitude Junkers, there were modifications of the Yak-9 and the Spitfire were mentioned in passing, but about the MiG-3 it’s silent, although I think it’s just could be brought to mind ...
  16. Denimax 23 January 2020 09: 23 New
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    Guided bombs are asking for this plane.))
  17. Sandy 23 January 2020 10: 01 New
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    Poor Ayrvar ... They tear off his tail and mane ... Well, it would be fine without significant errors.
    He did not need a machine gun at all, since not a single fighter of that time, even theoretically could not climb to working height this plane.
    - It's about the Ju-86P. Practical ceiling 12000m.
    "Opponents":
    Spitfire Mk.V - 11278m
    Mig-3 - 12000m
    Yak-1 - 10000m
    R-40E - 8000m
    R-39 - 9900m
    Hurricane Mk.II - 11125m
    Yak-9PD - 13100m
    Spitfire HF IX - 13100m
    At least three aircraft (MiG-3, Spitfire and Hurricane) could dynamically jump to working height Ju-86P. And the Mig-3 and the practical ceiling was equal to the ceiling of the Ju-86P.
    Yak-9-PD and Spitfire HF IX are not considered as later.
    By the way, in 1935 the I-15 climbed to a height of 14575m. In practice. Not theoretically.
    The problem of interception was not in the larger practical ceiling of the Yu-86, but in the rate of climb, the possible time spent on this ceiling and the accuracy of pointing the interceptor to the target. If the interceptor was brought to the interception point on a catch-up or oncoming course, then it had only a few minutes to intercept, and when the target was dodged, the interceptor no longer had the opportunity to catch up.
    1. Pavel57 23 January 2020 14: 33 New
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      Therefore, Spitfire, obtained from England, was mainly used in air defense.
    2. Alexey RA 23 January 2020 14: 54 New
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      Quote: Sandy
      The problem of interception was not in the larger practical ceiling of the Yu-86, but in the rate of climb, the possible time spent on this ceiling and the accuracy of pointing the interceptor to the target. If the interceptor was brought to the interception point on a catch-up or oncoming course, then it had only a few minutes to intercept, and when the target was dodged, the interceptor no longer had the opportunity to catch up.

      It turns out that in the case of intercepting a high-altitude reconnaissance interceptor was an analogue of a missile launcher, in which the RCT went through the pilot, and he replaced the GOS in the final section. And instead of warheads - on-board weapons. smile And the success of the interception was largely determined precisely by the guidance operator, which was supposed to bring the plane to the optimal interception rate.
      However, the nightlights were the same. But it was easier for them - there was no need to jump out above the ceiling, and there were more goals.
      1. Sandy 23 January 2020 21: 10 New
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        And the success of the interception was largely determined by the guidance operator,
        I would say - the quality of guidance and the amount of time to conduct an attack. It was determined by the remainder of the fuel and oxygen at the time the attack began.
    3. illuminat 10 February 2020 14: 41 New
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      Quote: Sandy
      At least three aircraft (MiG-3, Spitfire and Hurricane) could dynamically jump out to the working height of the Ju-86P.
      Dynamically - very unlikely. For those speeds (60-100 m / s) they could gain 100-150 m to the ceiling. The difference in ceiling for sleeping and Hurricane 700-800 m, due to the dynamics can not be overcome.
  18. spech 23 January 2020 13: 37 New
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    The combat flight plan was as follows: the plane took off, then climbed 11 m. This altitude was to be reached after 000 minutes of flight. After that, the flight continued at this altitude, at a cruising speed of 45 km / h.

    Climbing up to 200 m began 12 km from the target. This altitude was reached 000 km from the target. Then began a decrease in a sort of half-diving to a height of 100-9500 meters, from where the bombs were dropped. Then again followed a leisurely climb of 10000 meters and return to the airfield.


    That's why the money was spent on rockets? For the terror of London and such aircraft would be enough.
    1. Sandy 23 January 2020 21: 06 New
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      With single planes to bomb? As soon as the formation of such aircraft appears, the problem of interception is solved more easily. Plus, the working height of the formation is less than the working height of a loner. Plus, the cost of such a flight compared to the cost of a rocket per unit of kilogram of TNT delivered. Plus the physical capabilities of the pilots. Arithmetic is not in favor of the Yu-86.
  19. ser56 23 January 2020 14: 41 New
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    Thanks to the author for the little-known material! hi
    1. NF68 25 January 2020 19: 40 New
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      Quote: ser56
      Thanks to the author for the little-known material! hi


      Almost all of these "little-known materials", the "author" is creatively borrowing from this site:

      http://airwar.ru/index.html

      and because of innate modesty, for several months now he ceased to indicate where he was taking his materials from, and what he was repeatedly convicted of.
      1. ser56 27 January 2020 17: 23 New
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        Quote: NF68
        and because of innate modesty, for several months now he ceased to indicate where he was taking his materials from, and what he was repeatedly convicted of.

        I didn’t check authorship, I'm talking about the material ... actually this is the task of the site, not the readers! request
        Quote: NF68
        of this site:

        the site is famous, let it have an effect, if we prove plagiarism - there are procedures ... hi
        1. NF68 30 January 2020 17: 48 New
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          Quote: ser56
          Quote: NF68
          and because of innate modesty, for several months now he ceased to indicate where he was taking his materials from, and what he was repeatedly convicted of.

          I didn’t check authorship, I'm talking about the material ... actually this is the task of the site, not the readers! request
          Quote: NF68
          of this site:

          the site is famous, let it have an effect, if we prove plagiarism - there are procedures ... hi


          Just the site somehow does not see plagiarism at all, although it should. Moreover, readers more than once or twice specifically indicated where exactly Roman took these materials after Roman became very modest and did not indicate where he licked the materials from.
          1. ser56 30 January 2020 18: 34 New
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            Quote: NF68
            Just the site somehow does not see plagiarism at all, although it should.

            write where to ... request
            1. NF68 31 January 2020 18: 08 New
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              Quote: ser56
              Quote: NF68
              Just the site somehow does not see plagiarism at all, although it should.

              write where to ... request


              Do I really need it?
      2. kig
        kig 31 March 2020 03: 14 New
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        Quote: NF68
        Almost all of these "little-known materials", the "author" is creatively borrowing from this site:

        everyone can go to this site and see that there is not much of that in the article about Ju.86R, that is, here.
  20. rubin6286 23 January 2020 15: 42 New
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    The article is interesting. Thanks to the author.
  21. Uve bjørnsson 28 January 2020 23: 57 New
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    Quote: Bad_gr
    It is surprising that the Jumo-205 did not complain about reliability, and the fact that it was on the plane speaks for itself. Unlike our tank 5TDF. But Junkers had more sophisticated diesel engines. With three and even four crankshafts. I can’t imagine how this can be collected?



    lowest Jumo-223-04A

    This is where you read that "no one complained" ??
    Just the most problematic engine in German aviation.
    U Charomsky about it is described in great detail, at first the Germans themselves helped him in creating domestic 2T tanks.
    And about the planes ...
    On the Soviet TB-7 / Pe-8, diesel was also installed, which does not mean at all that there were no problems with them, because of the descriptions of dances with a tambourine according to these engines on the same VO shaft.
    So the argument is so-so.
    In general, a two-stroke type of this type is a dead end in the internal combustion engine.
    Monstrous (compared to 4T diesels) oil consumption, large power losses on the drive of auxiliary units (blower-blower), incomplete combustion of fuel and partial removal are stupidly into the "pipe" (specificity 2T AT ALL).
    In the first photo Napier Deltic.
    It was installed on British "class 55" locomotives, and they have nothing to do with Junkers.
    It is not necessary to create different freaks of a great mind, as it comes to the series, they immediately begin. In principle, unsolvable problems, and such unique ones quickly disappear.
    We tried to make U-shaped and H-shaped engines (I’m talking about star-shaped monsters (to which Junkers was like cancer with China) m-503, m-504 I don’t say, they went into the series!), But just played enough, they threw foolishness toil, and began to do Normal.
  22. lelik613 April 19 2020 11: 04 New
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    What was the practical use of the “high-altitude” Mikoyan machine heavily controlled at low and medium altitudes and unsuitable for high-altitude interception?