SABER hybrid engine. For the atmosphere and for space


Section SABER engine


Over the past few years, the British company Reaction Engines Limited (REL), in collaboration with other organizations, has been developing the SABER (Synergetic Air Breathing Rocket Engine - Hybrid Air Rocket Engine) project. The aim of this project is to create a fundamentally new hybrid engine that can use atmospheric air and a liquid oxidizer. To date, the project has managed to show some success.

Project development


At the heart of the REL SABER engine concept are ideas embedded and partially tested back in the eighties. At that time, British experts were developing the HOTOL spacecraft, for which a LACE type hybrid engine was offered. That project could not be implemented, but his proposals found application in new developments.

Design SABER in its current form began at the turn of the last decades. Some studies have been carried out, which allowed to form the overall appearance of a hybrid engine and determine the ways of its development. In the future, REL managed to interest potential customers and get support, which accelerated the work.


Indoor units without housing and fairing. From left to right: main combustion chamber, compressor and pre-cooler

To date, REL has developed the bulk of the design documentation and has begun testing individual engine components. To test products, we use two of our own test facilities in the UK and the USA.

Some components and concepts were tested in practice and proved their potential. In the near future, a full-fledged prototype hybrid engine should appear, including all tested components. His testing in the conditions of the stand will begin in 2020-21. The timing of the appearance of an engine suitable for installation on real aircraft remains unknown. This is likely to happen no earlier than the second half of the twenties.

Hybrid design


The SABER product must operate in the atmosphere and beyond, developing the required traction and providing acceleration to high speeds. Such requirements have led to the need to use a special design with characteristic features. It contains elements typical of turbojet, ramjet and liquid rocket engines. Their use in different combinations allows you to have several modes of operation for different stages of flight.


The principle of the engine in air-reactive mode. Small blue arrows indicate the movement of refrigerated air, red arrows indicate uncooled air supplied to the direct-flow chamber

The SABER engine includes several basic elements housed in a single housing. The head of the product is given under the frontal air intake with a central body. The latter is made in the form of a conical fairing and can be moved along the axis of the engine to change the air supply to the system. In certain modes, the air supply is completely shut off.

Directly behind the intake device is a cooling system for the incoming air. It is estimated that when flying at high speeds, the inlet air should be warmed to 1000 ° C or higher. A special pre-cooler with several thousand thin tubes filled with liquid helium should reduce air temperature to negative values ​​in fractions of a second. An anti-icing system is provided.

The central part of the engine is the so-called core - a special compressor designed to compress the incoming air before sending it to the combustion chamber. In this regard, SABER is similar to traditional turbojet engines, however, it does not have a turbine behind the combustion chamber and some other elements. The compressor is driven by a turbine that draws energy from the air cooling system.

The SABER combustion chamber is similar to fluid rocket engines. Using a turbopump, it is proposed to supply fuel and an oxidizing agent - gaseous air or liquid oxygen, depending on the operating mode. In both modes, liquefied hydrogen is used as fuel.


Prototype air cooling system

Around the main combustion chamber is a second chamber, similar to a ramjet engine. It is designed to work in some modes and increase the overall thrust of the engine. Like the main combustion chamber, auxiliary direct-flow runs on hydrogen.

Now the goal of the SABER project is to develop a hybrid engine with fairly high performance and limited dimensions. The finished product should not be larger than the serial Pratt & Whitney F135 - no more than 5,6 m in length and less than 1,2 m in diameter. At the same time, universality and high performance should be ensured.

Depending on the operating mode, this option SABER will be able to provide flight at speeds up to M = 25. The maximum thrust in "air" mode will reach 350 kN, in rocket mode - 500 kN. The main positive feature will be the ability to solve all problems with a single engine.

Modes of operation


The SABER engine can be used on different classes of equipment, primarily on aerospace aircraft. The presence of several operating modes will provide the possibility of horizontal take-off and landing, flight in the atmosphere and exit into orbit.

SABER hybrid engine. For the atmosphere and for space
The "core" of the engine. Compressor impeller visible

Takeoff and flight in the atmosphere should be performed due to the first mode of engine operation. In this case, the air intake is open, and the “core” delivers compressed air to the combustion chamber. After acceleration to high supersonic speeds, a direct-flow combustion chamber is switched on. The use of two circuits, according to calculations, provides a flight speed of up to M = 5,4.

For further overclocking, the third mode is used. On it, the air intake is blocked, and liquid oxygen is supplied to the main combustion chamber. In fact, in this configuration, SABER becomes a semblance of a traditional rocket engine. This mode provides maximum flight performance.

Applications


While the hybrid engine from REL exists only in the form of documentation and individual units, but the scope of its application has already been identified. Such power plants should be of interest in the context of further development aviation and astronautics, including at the junction of these two directions.

SABER or a similar product will be useful in creating promising hypersonic atmospheric aircraft for various purposes. Using these technologies, you can create transport, passenger or combat aircraft.


External units of the main combustion chamber

The full potential of a hybrid engine can be revealed with the help of an aerospace plane. In this case, SABER will provide horizontal take-off and landing, as well as access to the required altitudes, followed by acceleration and flight to orbit. A spacecraft with hybrid engines should have important advantages that simplify its operation.

SABER developments can be implemented as separate components. Thus, REL believes that the developed cooling system for the incoming air can be used to modernize existing or to develop promising turbojet engines. The most interesting results from this can be obtained in the field of high-speed aviation.

At its core, the SABER project offers a set of key technologies for building a hybrid multi-mode engine. Based on them, you can create a real product of the required dimensions with the given characteristics. For the first tests, a medium-sized SABER with high performance is created. If there is interest on the part of customers, new modifications may appear that meet specific requirements.

Practical training


The first research and testing in the framework of the SABER project took place at the beginning of the tenth years and was intended to search for optimal design solutions. To date, REL has completed the development of the project and has begun the process of testing individual components of the hybrid engine.


Cooler on the stand. The main features of his work are indicated.

A few weeks ago, the development company announced a bench test of the air cooling system. During the test, the air velocity at the inlet to the device reached M = 5, the temperature - 1000 ° C. It is reported that the experimental product successfully completed its tasks and provided a sharp and rapid decrease in flow temperature. However, specific numbers were not called.

Checks for other engine components were previously reported. The completion of all these activities allows REL to proceed with the assembly of a full-fledged pilot engine. Its appearance is expected in 2020-21. Then, bench tests will be held, according to the results of which it will be possible to determine the real development prospects.

Reaction Engines Limited praises its new project and believes it has a great future. How objective such estimates are and whether they correspond to reality is not completely clear. The answer to such questions can be given only a few years after the completion of all necessary measures and the creation of a real aircraft with SABER engines.
Author:
Photos used:
Reaction Engines Ltd. / reactionengines.co.uk
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  1. Monar 21 November 2019 06: 47 New
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    Interesting idea. But in fact, half of Dvigalov works only in the initial and final sections. Moreover, the shortest ones.
    And again, the noise problem. They didn’t let the Concorde inside the continents.
    1. Civil 21 November 2019 08: 45 New
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      Here is the engine for fighters of 6-7 generations.
  2. Obi-Wan Kenobi 21 November 2019 07: 25 New
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    Well, if they can “bring to mind” this engine, then this will be a breakthrough in engine building.
  3. Jurkovs 21 November 2019 08: 42 New
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    I do not quite understand why to cool the air at all. Indeed, when it enters the combustion chamber, the cooled air will take part of the energy for its heating and thereby slightly reduce the pressure in the combustion chamber. In LRE, oxygen is liquefied to reduce tank volume. A simple cooling does not make sense at all.
    1. Lopatov 21 November 2019 10: 31 New
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      Quote: Jurkovs
      I do not quite understand why to cool the air at all.

      The hotter the air, the lower its density and the less oxidizer in it
      1. Ural-4320 21 November 2019 13: 02 New
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        Undoubtedly, but how critical is it in this engine?
        For an internal combustion engine, this is important: the mixture must be stoichiometric, otherwise popping into the muffler, smelly exhaust, power drop, etc. And then everything is immediately chased to the street without any neutralization and cleaning systems. In addition, in an internal combustion engine, the mixture burns in a closed volume under pressure, but in a liquid-propellant rocket engine there is no cylinder like.
      2. Jurkovs 22 November 2019 07: 23 New
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        Quote: Spade
        The hotter the air, the lower its density and the less oxidizer in it

        What went through the air intake. it has already passed. And the amount of oxidizing agent in mass equivalent will not change from a decrease in temperature.
  4. vadimtt 21 November 2019 08: 47 New
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    Why oxygen?
    At the last stage, you can already fluoride wassat
    Novation is so innovative, it is necessary to somehow compensate for the lack of efficiency of the hybrid.
    Interestingly, the maximum parameters of chemical fuel will be enough for a machine that can take off from the earth, enter orbit and return in one piece, and not very big?
    Or is it left to rely only on something nuclear / thermonuclear / alternative?
    1. Nikolaevich I 21 November 2019 09: 19 New
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      In fact, we must remember where it started! Recall the same “hotol!” There, turbo compressors pumped air, a stream passed through a “refrigeration” unit, the air liquefied ... excess gases were removed ... liquefied oxygen was pumped into the tank, and from there to the engine! Thus, the LRE worked in the atmosphere, and "without atmosphere"! "Hybrid" it can be different (!), If you rustle convolutions!
      1. vadimtt 21 November 2019 09: 54 New
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        To liquefy superheated air (after the air intake and compressor) on a heap of the heat exchanger with evaporating hydrogen? Hmm it must be considered of course, but something is not believed, there will not be so much “cold” in a reasonable amount of hydrogen on board.
        1. Nikolaevich I 21 November 2019 11: 58 New
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          Quote: vadimtt
          To liquefy superheated air (after the air intake and compressor) on a heap of the heat exchanger with evaporating hydrogen? Hmm it must be considered of course, but something is not believed, there will not be so much “cold” in a reasonable amount of hydrogen on board.

          Well ... doubts are doubts ... doubts are well-reasoned and like "I think so!"
          In any case, the surreal comrades-in-arms were once engaged in this project ...
          1. Mityay65 22 November 2019 01: 39 New
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            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            The surreal comrades-in-arms once dealt with this project ...

            HOTOL miscalculated from different angles, and was recognized as quite a working and promising one. But he stayed forever on paper, because carrier rockets he was not a competitor in capacity. And this was recognized by the strategists as the main thing during the years of the cold war. The shuttle and Buran could fulfill all the military tasks that were set before HOTOL. Therefore, the Defense Ministry and the General Ministry were not interested in the MAKS project at the time. He was contraindicated to the general ministry, because The NGO Lightning, which promoted MAKS, belonged to the Minaviaprom.
            Well, after the end of the ХV the budgets of the space state. Offices fell everywhere, it was not up to HOTOL. And indeed not to new projects.
            HOTOL's scheme for launching into space can be quite in demand now, because plans are emerging for building mass commercial satellite systems requiring mass launches for spacecraft launch and maintenance. Well, for transport to the ISS. There is a sense for HOTOL and for devices like MAX, but probably still not in the winged version.
            We have a misfortune in Roscosmos’s monopoly, in the matter of launching spacecraft into space. The NGO Lightning, which specialized in aerospace projects, does not belong to Roskosmos.
            The SABER engine is a dvigun for an aerospace vehicle, not a launch vehicle for a spacecraft. Otherwise, there must be a liquefaction and recovery circuit in the LOX tank. It will not enter orbit.
            One must then understand why he is so needed? The only thing that comes to mind is a hypersonic passenger airliner for flights such as London - Sydney.
        2. Simple 21 November 2019 23: 20 New
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          The air there can be cooled based on the Rank-Hills effect.
          1. Mityay65 22 November 2019 02: 38 New
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            Quote: Simple
            The air there can be cooled based on the Rank-Hills effect.

            Why, in fact, Ranka Hills? The efficiency of this cooling method is rather low - the temperature gradient on hot and cold flows is small for such a purpose. In the text, the compressor drive is modestly silent from where - probably the expander stage on helium.
            Here, in theory, you need ultra-efficient heat transfer. Helium is suitable as a refrigerant.
            With heat exchanger issues. On the one hand, at an input of 1000 C, on the other hand, a record thermal conductivity of the material is needed ... And a gradient from +1000 air to - 270 liquid helium ...
            What could be there? Silver, gold?
            1. Vadim237 22 November 2019 19: 02 New
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              Long stepped heat exchanger circuit.
              1. Mityay65 24 November 2019 18: 51 New
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                Quote: Vadim237
                Long stepped heat exchanger circuit.

                This option immediately suggests a large aerodynamic drag in the air intake channel. Rather, I think, a spiral-twisted tubular, like Linda, with a developed heat transfer surface, in the cross-section of a square or rhombus.
                Apparently they invented something and darken not casual.
            2. abrakadabre 16 January 2020 11: 40 New
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              Another question: where do they want to dump the heat taken from the cooled air? Especially with a slightly longer flight. After all, there will not be a feeble accumulation of heat in the helium circulation system. Dump outside? but ambient air is supposed to be heated to those very 1000 degrees.
  5. gridasov 21 November 2019 10: 05 New
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    I must reassure the Russian part of the audience that the engine has no prospects for a complex of fundamental reasons. It is simply impossible to create a support, concentrated flow, and even more so with an economical and not to mention a self-sufficient energy process with such a concept. Again, everyone just sees some particular solution, and does not consider the operation and change of process parameters for different operating modes. It’s even just to wonder what potential the reactor zone itself has, where the conversion of the highest energy density takes place. And then, again, everything is complicated and low-Q.
    1. Gray brother 21 November 2019 13: 24 New
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      What's up with anti-gravity, is it coming soon?
      1. gridasov 21 November 2019 14: 11 New
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        Remember what Schauberger gave a serious hint. The fact that if you change the internal or external, depending on the tasks of the magnetic force field, then, the problem of unsupported motion has a solution. Methods are more sufficient to begin implementation.
      2. psiho117 21 November 2019 18: 02 New
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        Quote: Gray Brother
        What's up with anti-gravity, is it coming soon?
        Graviton is not caught yet ...
    2. Undecim 21 November 2019 13: 54 New
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      Gridasov, does your bot also have turbopatriotic tendencies? Was he self-taught, or did you start this function?
      1. gridasov 21 November 2019 14: 08 New
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        It would be better to talk about the garbage with the tongue. The diplomas are higher than the roof, but questions remain unresolved. To grind the bones of the famous stereotype of personalities
        1. Undecim 21 November 2019 14: 11 New
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          Gridasov, do you offer a discussion with a bot? Your bot has not yet reached that degree of perfection in order to discuss with him.
          1. gridasov 21 November 2019 14: 17 New
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            A video was launched on the Internet as Medvedev drives in Novosibirsk and there are watchmen every twenty meters. I think this is an indicator of the mentality of the nation. Therefore, I am not surprised anymore
            1. Undecim 21 November 2019 14: 24 New
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              It is unlikely that Medvedev’s arrival in Novosibirsk is somehow connected with the Brighton cycle.
            2. spech 21 November 2019 15: 25 New
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              are the watchmen

              Who or what is it?
  6. looker-on 21 November 2019 10: 44 New
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    Quote: gridasov
    I must reassure the Russian part of the audience that the engine has no prospects for a complex of fundamental reasons.

    Oh, thanks! At Reaction Engines Limited (REL), some visionaries work and students. You can live peacefully (sarcasm)
    1. gridasov 21 November 2019 11: 25 New
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      it is only children who are frightened by beautiful and sonorous names. Therefore, the essence does not change and the fact remains that if everything is so positioned, it already shows the direction of their research. But who said that it is logical and correct in accordance with the goals and objectives. personally, I can justify all stages from the contact of the tip of the cone to the exit of gases from the nozzle and I can justify not the reasonableness and logic of the successive stages of the entire physical process
  7. Mikhail3 21 November 2019 11: 27 New
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    The compressor is driven by a turbine that draws energy from the air cooling system.
    Faq ?!
    In general, the Wishlist is beautiful. At least the engineers will be busy for many years until the application stops working. There is no new idea in the engine, just an attempt to combine two in one machine. It happens, it even works. Like floating cars, we pressurize the hull, screw in a propeller (or just turn the wheels) and a trough slowly dripping over calm water ...
    In general, to implement the idea, it is necessary that both circuits, both the jet engine and the rocket one, have a huge supply of power and flexibility, due to which the decrease in the main indicators that will occur due to the combination of systems, nevertheless, allows to achieve operating parameters. It should be noted that the decrease in performance will be no less than percent on 50-60.
    Considering the fact that the rocket engines currently in use push their small loads into orbit with great difficulty, and their power reserve is unlikely to reach 5-7%, the combination seems very problematic).
    1. Simple 21 November 2019 23: 24 New
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      It may very well be. Have you heard anything about the vortex effect of temperature separation of gases?
      1. Mikhail3 22 November 2019 09: 44 New
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        Yes, I heard. There are even heaters based on it. So what?
  8. gridasov 21 November 2019 11: 30 New
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    To be specific, I will give only an example of the fact that, starting with the movement of the engine housing in the air, the pressure flow will only decrease because the cone of propagation of the disturbance will change the angle up to the opposite direction when the speed of sound is exceeded. This will lead to a disruption of the flow. The causes of such phenomena are known to everyone and here they are in all its glory as the reason from the design and form.
  9. Bersaglieri 21 November 2019 11: 59 New
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    Turbo ramjet engine. The idea, which has excited minds since the 50s, is finally being implemented in hardware.
  10. donavi49 21 November 2019 12: 30 New
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    By the way, I just note that the Mask bombed. It is strange that there is no topic yet.

    We tested the maximum design pressure - and they were mistaken somewhere.
    1. voyaka uh 21 November 2019 12: 57 New
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      It was a prototype with the head part removed.
      1. Bersaglieri 22 November 2019 14: 07 New
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        Tanks were tested for extreme pressure.
    2. gridasov 21 November 2019 14: 05 New
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      I give my head a cut-off that the cause of the explosion was the operation of a turbo-fuel supercharger
    3. Saxahorse 21 November 2019 23: 45 New
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      Quote: donavi49
      By the way, I just note that the Mask bombed.

      Pepelats did not even fall. Barbell! It does not count! laughing
    4. Mikhail3 22 November 2019 09: 47 New
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      "Planned trials are underway and something went wrong." This will allow investors to fool for several more years.
    5. Mityay65 22 November 2019 21: 06 New
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      Quote: donavi49
      We tested the maximum design pressure - and they were mistaken somewhere.

      This is not an explosion, but quite a banal hydro-pneumatic pressure test of the tank. Everyone who has ever done such a thing at the factory has seen such a process in kind. There was a disclosure of the weld at the junction of the bottom and the shell. In particular, it says that the weld is put in a slap, manually. Rocket builders usually perform such seams with automatic or semi-automatic machines.
      Well, according to the requirements of the Russian Technical Supervision Authority for vessels operating under pressure, hydrotesting is carried out at a pressure of + 25% of the calculated one. What pressure Musk is experiencing is not known, but most likely the same.
      Once again, we are all reminded of the importance of TB compliance! yes
    6. abrakadabre 16 January 2020 11: 45 New
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      beautiful firecracker.
  11. Thrifty 21 November 2019 13: 03 New
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    That's all nonsense! Our own similar projects in the early 90s were closed. For anyone, carrying extra "dead" weight with you is a stupid undertaking. The engine must be combined, and run continuously. And from this hybrid there will be no sense, work will be phased out slowly. ..
  12. shinobi 21 November 2019 15: 29 New
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    It won’t work out. The reason, an attempt to combine completely different principles in one system. There will be work in progress, there is no doubt, but the engine itself will not. Ours, I think, will come easier. We will create (or have already created) a conventional turbojet with direct-flow guards as an afterburner cameras and a separate rocket engine to it; everything in the body is a flying wing. Something from the development of Myasishchev Design Bureau.
    1. anzar 21 November 2019 16: 12 New
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      Sinobi (Yuri) ... They will create (or have already created) a conventional turbojet with a direct-flow turbojet engine as an afterburner and a separate rocket engine

      Turbojet engine why? Wouldn't it be easier to direct-flow rocket? A liquid taxiway is placed in a once-through pipe. Horizon launch, climb and speed on the rocket (thrust approx. 50% of the weight of the ship), there will be additional. traction from the vector effect. After 2,5M - direct-flow (ekonomit oxidizer). Above (as much as possible? Approximately 7-10) M- again rocket to enter orbit.
      1. shinobi 21 November 2019 21: 58 New
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        The trick is that to start the ramjet, an initial speed of at least 2,5 Mach is required at the entrance to the dvigun. So some kind of starting accelerator is required. According to the scheme with the turbojet, there is no need for accelerators. Moreover, an approximate scheme of such a hybrid was already used in the 70s years, the Americans on the Black Drozd scout. Only there the afterburner was pvrd. The circuit is simple to bring to mind, put the scramjet, use hydrogen as fuel, etc. .. But if you use your circuit, with the initial acceleration from the rail, the fuel economy does not work , which, in fact, is the holy grail of all rocket planes. The stock is very quickly consumed.
        1. Mikhail3 22 November 2019 09: 49 New
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          Why are Americans not inclined, to put it mildly, to lose profits, while still having an endless source of money, not
          Quote: shinobi
          The scheme is simply brought to mind
          ?
          Hehe ...
        2. merkava-2bet 1 December 2019 15: 43 New
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          An interesting idea, three in one, but I'm interested in how to deal with moisture, that is, with ice, I did not see this, someone can explain.
    2. Vadim237 22 November 2019 18: 59 New
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      In Russia, such a ramjet engine + rocket engine in the 2016th created
      1. shinobi 24 November 2019 01: 13 New
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        In metal, this concept of engines has existed since the mid-70s, both with us and with them.
  13. Proctologist 21 November 2019 19: 04 New
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    I note that in the original abbreviation SABER is the word "synergy", not "hybrid" - feel the difference? Synergy implies a greater effect from the sharing of components than just the sum of their results separately. And I totally agree with that!

    What is the genius of the concept? One engine for all flight modes: subsonic, supersonic, hypersonic. Due to the different gas dynamics, each mode would require a separate engine or some very tricky (and not very efficient) transformer engine, like on the SR-71 (only two out of three modes).

    Combat missiles (a bad word, because in Russian there is a confusion between the concepts of "missile" as the principle of movement with repulsion of the working fluid and the means of delivery of warheads with its own engine - a cruise missile is never a missile, hence the addition of the word "cruise", although the thing not at all in the wings) they are accelerated by solid-fuel disposable boosters to the desired speed and then the main engine is turned on. SABER allows you to have a completely reusable design, an airplane that can take off and land horizontally, optionally go into airless space and fly in the entire speed range on one engine. That's cool.
    1. gridasov 21 November 2019 21: 41 New
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      we positioned the concept of an all-spatial engine ten years ago. And I note the difference for adapting the operation of the engine in different environments consists only in the speed of rotation of the basic devices. Now look and answer for yourself what and where it can be in this engine that changes working parameters and gives flight results. Do not forget about flight efficiency
    2. shinobi 21 November 2019 22: 03 New
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      And what doesn’t suit you in the SR-1 dvigun concept? Actually, it’s necessary to change the air defense system to the gas engine and separately insert the air defense engine for the atmospheric flight. The finished concept. I don’t understand why it still doesn’t
    3. abrakadabre 16 January 2020 12: 54 New
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      Due to the different gas dynamics, each mode would require a separate engine or some very tricky (and not very efficient) transformer engine, like on the SR-71 (only two out of three modes).
      And how does the presented engine differ from "some very tricky (and not very efficient) transformer engine"? After all, this is it itself is.
  14. Leomobil 21 November 2019 22: 43 New
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    Just scream! smile In the West, it seems that finally our "youth technique" was transferred for the 80s ... With these two Harmful engines they have been worn for at least 30 years, with varying success, everyone is not lazy. One very "self-confident" country, for twenty years now it has been buying classic engines from a "gas station" trying to develop something very new, two-unit. fellow If there are only “bucks” or “pounds” with eureka in the head, nothing can come out of there except for the percent, it can creep out. Rhinestones on sneakers for 1000 bucks - this is please, a toilet bowl with scales and urine analysis - just indicate the color, but a rocket engine? English scientists? What are you? Seriously? lol
    1. Mikhail3 22 November 2019 09: 57 New
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      Do not stop people from swimming in pink dreams. In the movie and comics, it turns out ?! And then it will work out! Blessed is he who believes, warmth in the world ...
      Modern technology has been exhausted due to the exhaustion of modern physics. It would be possible to increase the efficiency of classical schemes many times by introducing fundamentally new materials. But our knowledge of matter is close to zero, our theories about its structure, in principle, are not true. Somewhere there is an unrecoverable problem that we overlooked. Therefore, there are no new materials and will not be.
      A fundamentally new propulsion could be developed based on knowledge in the field of space and gravity (which is clearly NOT a property of space). This is not the case either, because physicists have forbidden themselves to get out of Einstein’s aporia, which they have instead of knowledge.
      No, there will be no real cosmonautics, at least mastering the planetary system. Not at all. And this joke also will not fly, with a guarantee. It's a pity. Terribly sorry ...
      1. Leomobil 23 November 2019 15: 14 New
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        It is possible to interpret modern trends (hypes) on promising developments BUT! Personally, my experience in design work, which speaks of a severe rejection of everything new, sounds paradoxical, but it is. The evolutionary path of development of anything (any direction) is much more comfortable (there is an understanding of most of the audience) than alternative solutions, even if they do not contradict common sense but do not fit into the general trend, they will certainly be persuaded. Well, this is not the first time that humanity rests against this wall, let’s break through! wink
        1. Mikhail3 24 November 2019 13: 32 New
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          The designer produces a working prototype. After that, everyone doesn’t care which way he went. By the way, a serious designer knows how to spell the word “persecuted”. It’s easier, Leva, you don’t have to impersonate Tupolev, but your “experience in design work” is a long way)
          1. Leomobil 24 November 2019 14: 36 New
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            "The rules of the Russian language were invented (residents of a Jordanian valley :)) in order to mock Russians" smile - this quote! It’s a mistake, well, I learned the rules of RJ at school, is this an indicator of the level of the designer? In your opinion, the idea stated with a spelling error is already automatically erroneous? Returning to the “working prototype”, do you even imagine how much the designer’s workplace + workshop costs? This is not enough - if this is a robot (with a claim to combat) is already the 3rd form of admission, and if the weapon is a development license .. Regarding the long way, I recall that Sergeant Kalashnikov did his miracle in 3 years - is this a long way? wink You instantly saw an error in the spelling and completely ignored the thought itself (well, since with an error, it’s by definition not true) wink You need to live up to a working prototype, first - a model, concept, mechanics, electronics, programming, etc. etc. Tupolev was much easier! smile
            1. Mikhail3 25 November 2019 09: 13 New
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              Well, poorly at school taught the rules of OY, is this an indicator of the level of the designer?
              Of course. Man learns the rules of the Russian language by reading literature. The less you read, the worse you write. Errors in the basic, commonly used words show that the level of the general culture is low, that is, you neglectfully read both general developmental literature and by profession. So you are a bad designer, because this work is not done by hand. Sorry.
              Regarding your thoughts ... Make a model. Kalashnikov from a piece of wood machined his mechanisms, as is usually done by all gunsmiths. The principle demonstrator is almost always cheap. And then various CADs begin for tens of millions of dollars and so on.
    2. Vadim237 22 November 2019 18: 57 New
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      These British scientists and engineers created the Rolls-Royce company, which, in addition to cars, is involved in the development and production of gas turbines and aircraft engines. What can not be swung at combined rocket engines?
      1. Mikhail3 23 November 2019 12: 42 New
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        NOT THESE engineers and scientists.
    3. shinobi 24 November 2019 00: 38 New
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      You laugh in vain. In the 70s, in the Japanese Foreign Ministry there was a whole department dealing with only one task, translating our magazines. Model designer, young technician, youth technician, etc. Many have successfully used their auto industry to this day. The concept of shuttles, youth technics was sucked in the middle 60s, when they really didn’t fly on rockets either.
      1. Mityay65 24 November 2019 03: 55 New
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        Quote: shinobi
        In the 70s, in the Japanese Foreign Ministry there was a whole department dealing with only one task, the translation of our magazines.

        Why only in the 70s and why only in Japanese? Such departments existed in all foreign ministries of all countries and eras. Exist now and will continue to exist. I am sure this can be said about the department in the Russian Foreign Ministry, which translates Japanese magazines and is subscribed to all sites with scientific and technical information. And such a department probably is not only in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, there are a couple of offices that are interested in the scientific and technical work of young people from other countries.
        1. shinobi 24 November 2019 04: 28 New
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          Most likely, but I specifically know only about Japan.
          1. Mityay65 24 November 2019 18: 37 New
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            Quote: shinobi
            technique of youth sucked in the mid 60s

            Do you occasionally have links to these numbers of Youth Techniques?
            It is interesting to see how it was presented then. But in general, the idea of ​​a winged aircraft for flying into space is the idea of ​​the 40-50s. The very first engineering study of a manned flight into space was given this.
            1. Mityay65 24 November 2019 23: 28 New
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              Found "Technique-youth" 1973, No. 4, p.30-34
              http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/tm/1973/4/v-kosmos-na.html
              But this is 73, not the mid-60s.
              1. shinobi 25 November 2019 03: 44 New
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                In general, the idea itself appeared even earlier, before the war.
            2. shinobi 25 November 2019 03: 40 New
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              Look in the archives on the site of the jungle itself. Unfortunately, I don’t know the numbers, I am familiar with the topic from the clippings from my father’s archive. I also recommend reading the book “Battle for Space”.
  15. 30hgsa 28 November 2019 12: 38 New
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    What's the point?

    1. 2 in 1 means that conditionally half of the engine will not work in one of the modes, as a result there will be extremely worthless specific power.

    2. Due to the application of compromise solutions, it is impossible to apply specialized effective solutions for space and air. As a result, problems with power, efficiency.

    3. At the same time, it is terribly complicated.

    The output will be a device that can fly into space, but does not withstand competition with rockets, can also fly in the air, but does not withstand competition with clean planes.
    1. shinobi 2 December 2019 01: 26 New
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      There are wedges, a wedge-air rocket engine. But for some reason, few people are developing it. In the USA, the engine was almost shut down with a political decision. We seem to be working on it, but somehow it’s not so shaky. The new detonation combustion engine looks like from judging by the official videos, the concept looks beautiful. One-stage reusable rocket with independent take-off and landing. Launching tables are not needed, only a flat concrete field with a mass count of 400 tons capable of withstanding thermal shocks. No ... Looking at how things nachinaesh perforce believe in "conspiracy theories"
  16. Alisher 28 November 2019 23: 00 New
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    when flying at high speeds, the inlet air must be heated to a temperature of 1000 ° C or higher.
    the pre-cooler ... should reduce the air temperature to negative values ​​in a split second.
    this is understandable - the compressed air is heated, but it is convenient for the compressor to work with dense cold air, since it also compresses and warms up in it. And the compressor resource will be more. The output is a lot of air pressure. Moreover, the compressor runs on expanding fuel - hydrogen, almost like in a liquid propellant rocket engine, only there is a turbopump. Further, the combustion chamber as in a liquid propellant rocket engine. The workaround will begin to work when the speed is such that the compressor is already not really needed, there is enough compression.
    As a demonstrator, it’s interesting, but there will be no mass use (if at all).
    1. For the compressor to work, a certain amount of fuel is needed; it is also needed for cooling. So you can’t remove the gas, you have to go on acceleration like a rocket with a rocket engine. Otherwise there will be wasted fuel. A turbine as in a high pressure fuel pump, or a drive from electricity as in a New Zealand rocket would be useful, but these are complications and their limitations.
    Therefore, the economy will be bad, the best mode is a very fast acceleration and exit to LRE mode. So why was all this fussing?
    1. abrakadabre 16 January 2020 13: 19 New
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      So why was all this fussing?
      Why - understand. To take less oxidizer on board. This means increasing the system mass / cast weight ratio. That's just the doubts of all gnawing in vain ...
  17. Alisher 28 November 2019 23: 10 New
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    2. If we want to do it economically at the start and at low speeds, then we need to make a small fuel injection pump nearby, but in the case, and redirect the air flow from the intake to the fuel injection pump, and from it to the direct-flow nozzle. Next, this circuit is connected, as in the article, together with the fuel injection pump, but the air of the compressor driven by the turbine will go into the combustion chamber of the main engine. Then the transition to the forward flow, the fuel injection pump is completely turned off.
    In this case, there will be a cruising mode (overtake the plane or reach the runway) and fast acceleration.
    Alternatively, the turbofan engine drives its own compressor and the compressor of the main engine. Then the fuel injection pump can be small, with a small degree of bypass.
  18. Alisher 28 November 2019 23: 24 New
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    3. Why do I need an additional fuel injection pump? After all, this is add. weight and complication. Then, that in different conditions different solutions are effective, and partially they can be used in intermediate modes.
    At high temperatures and pressures, there is no need to risk the turbine and compressor blades. And at low speeds, you can not risk the heat exchanger, protection against the ingress of birds and objects, apply cheaper solutions and materials.
  19. srha 3 January 2020 17: 58 New
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    Engine, engine ... They say (well, I bought it for what I’m selling), that somehow cunning engineers came up to NASA’s most senior manager, appointed by Bush as the youngest of his school friends, and offered him a one-stage (why else hybrid need?) a rocket into space for just 2 billion of them. And he happily agreed. Still, it would have become possible for him to effectively reduce eggheads, which worked with two speed, and even accelerators ... And for almost ten years now, the old Soviet three-stage Unions have been carrying Americans into space.
    In general, the chemical engine will not pull human civilization into space, other solutions are needed.
    1. CrazyArt 15 January 2020 05: 14 New
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      Quote: srha
      In general, the chemical engine will not pull human civilization into space, other solutions are needed.

      It will not stretch in terms of development - yes. But from the planet, it’s still no better chemistry. The rest is either WMD or not pulling.