TEM project: nuclear reactor and electric rocket engine for space

One of the most daring projects in recent years in the field of space technology is developing, and there are reasons for good News. The other day it became known about the completion of the project "Creation of a transport and energy module based on a megawatt-class nuclear power plant." Now scientists have to carry out a series of subsequent work, and the end result will be the appearance of a full-fledged module, suitable for operation.

One of the layout options for the transport and energy module

Work report

At the end of July, Roscosmos approved the report for 2018, indicating the main activities and successes of the organization. Among other things, the report mentioned the project “Creation of a transport and energy module based on a megawatt-class nuclear propulsion system”, which was developed as part of the State program “Russian Space Activities for the 2013-2020 Years”.

According to the report, this project was completed last year. As part of these works, design documentation was prepared, individual products were manufactured and tested. While we are talking about the components of the future prototype of the ground-based prototype of the transport and energy module (TEM).

The work on creating a TEM does not stop there. All further activities will be carried out within the framework of the existing federal space program. Unfortunately, the Roskosmos report does not provide technical details of the TEM project in its current form, nor does it indicate the timing of the work. However, these data are known from other sources.

История вопроса

According to the report of Roscosmos, work on the topic of TEM is ongoing and should soon enter a new stage. This means that plans to create a fundamentally new rocket and space technology, approved almost 10 years ago, will be implemented in the foreseeable future.

The idea of ​​a transport and energy module based on a nuclear power plant (NED) in its current form was proposed in 2009. The development of this product was to be carried out by the enterprises of Roscosmos and Rosatom. The leading role in the project is played by the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation and the Keldysh Center FSUE.

In 2010, the project started, the first research and design work began. At that time, it was argued that the main components of nuclear power generation and TEM would be ready by the end of the decade. A preliminary design for the TEM was prepared in 2013. In 2014, tests of the components of the nuclear power ion-emitting diode and the ion engine ID-500 began. In the future, there were repeatedly reports of certain works and successes. Various elements of nuclear power generation and TEM were built and tested, and a search was made for areas of application of new technology.

As the TEM project was developed, open sources regularly published images showing the approximate appearance of this product. The last time such materials appeared in November last year. It is curious that this version of the appearance was noticeably different from the previous ones, although it had some similarities in the main features.

Technical features

The transport and energy module is considered as a multi-purpose tool for working in space, both in the Earth’s orbits and on other trajectories. With its help, in the future it is planned to display the payload in orbits or send to other celestial bodies. TEM can also be used for servicing spacecraft or in the fight against space debris.

TEM will receive sliding load-bearing farms, due to which the necessary dimensions will be provided. On farms, it is proposed to mount a power unit with a reactor installation, an instrument-aggregate complex, docking facilities, solar panels, etc. In the tail of the module will be marching and shunting electric rocket engines. The payload will be transported using docking devices.

The main component of the TEM is the megawatt-class nuclear power generation system developed with 2009. The reactor of the installation must be particularly resistant to temperature loads, which is associated with its special operating conditions. A helium-xenon mixture was chosen as the heat carrier. Thermal power of the installation will reach 3,8 MW, electric - 1 MW. To drain excess heat, it is proposed to use a drip refrigerator-emitter.

Electricity from a nuclear installation must be supplied to an electric rocket engine. At the test stage is a promising ion engine ID-500. With an efficiency of up to 75%, it should show the power of 35 kW and thrust up to 750 mN. In tests in 2017, the ID-500 product worked at the 300 h bench at 35 kW.

According to the data of previous years, the TEM in the working position will have a length of more than 50-52 m with a diameter (for open trusses and elements on them) of more than 20 m. Mass - not less than 20 tons. The output of such a module into low Earth orbit will be carried out using one or several launch vehicles followed by assembly. Then the payload should dock with it. The estimated service life limited by the life of the reactor is 10 years.

Great promise

The main feature of a TEM with a nuclear weapon, which fundamentally distinguishes it from other rocket and space technology, is the highest specific impulse. The use of a special power plant and an electric rocket engine allows you to obtain the required traction parameters with a minimum consumption of nuclear fuel. Thus, TEM in theory is able to solve problems inaccessible to traditional missile systems using chemical fuel.

This makes it possible to more actively use marching and shunting engines throughout the flight. In particular, this allows the use of more favorable flight paths to other celestial bodies. 10-year service life allows you to repeatedly use TEM in different missions, reducing the cost of organizing them. In general, the emergence of systems like TEM with nuclear power plants will give astronautics new opportunities in all major areas of activity.

TEM standard engines should use only part of the electricity from the generating systems. Accordingly, there remains a large supply of power suitable for use by the target equipment.

However, there are significant disadvantages. First of all, it is the need to develop a number of new technologies and the overall complexity of the project. As a result, the creation of a TEM requires a lot of time and adequate financing. Thus, the Roskosmos project has been under development for about 10 years, but the practical application of the finished TEM is still in the distant future. The total project cost is estimated at 17 billion rubles.

Variant of TEM appearance shown last fall

The use of a nuclear power plant leads to serious restrictions at different stages. For example, tests of a finished nuclear power reactor or TEM as a whole are possible only in orbits, which will minimize damage from possible emergency situations. The same applies to the operation of the finished transport and energy module.

Near future

According to the latest news, the development of the project “Creating a transport and energy module based on a megawatt-class nuclear power plant” has been successfully completed. Some prototypes necessary for testing are already ready. In the coming years, enterprises from Roskosmos and Rosatom will have to carry out a number of important works with these and other products.

The TEM flight prototype is planned to be built in 2022-23. After this, various tests should start, which will take several years. A full-fledged launch of TEM operation is expected in 2030.

At the end of June, it became known about the preparation of the site for the operation of the TEM. Such equipment will be launched from Vostochny Cosmodrome. Not so long ago, a competition was announced for the development and construction of a set of tools for the preparation of spacecraft and the transport and energy module. The design documentation for the technical complex should be developed in 2025-26. Construction is planned to be launched in 2027, and commissioning will take place in 2030. The contract value is 13,2 billion rubles.

Thus, various work on the topic of promising space rocket technology with nuclear weapons will continue throughout the next decade. Some organizations will have to complete the development and test the transport and energy module, while others will prepare the infrastructure for its operation. According to the results of all this work in 2030, the Russian space industry will have at its disposal a fundamentally new technology with wide capabilities. However, the complexity of all stages of a promising program can lead to a change in schedule.

Comments

[Amateur]

And why do we need a solar panel in the presence of 1 mW of electricity from a nuclear power plant?
Or was it "for beauty" added?

[Fuse angel]

Probably, as a backup power source, in case of failure of the main power plant or any other systems. After all, in space you simply cannot fly to repair something.

[Fedor egoist]

Quote: Amateur

And why do we need a solar panel in the presence of 1 mW of electricity from a nuclear power plant

Quote: Guardian Angel

Probably as a backup power source

Rather, as a guaranteed energy source for critical systems in the event of a nuclear power plant failure. You can't fly far on such "sails")
In general, looking at a spaceship with solar panels and a nuclear engine, an analogy arises in the mind

[Felix99]

The project lacks Sail Mirrors near emitters.

[Lycan]

... as well as mirrors, pedals and harnesses.

[Plate]

The analogy is good, I must say, with you. The first submarines were also with sails. In case you cannot return back under your own power. In general, I want to say that something new, promising and untested should always be insured with something old and verified.

[Fedor egoist]

Quote: Plate

The analogy is good, I must say you have

Well, I spoke in a good sense, this is a normal stage of the transition period)) As soon as the technology is finalized, the solar panels in the spacecraft will disappear, as they disappeared as the sail in the steamers is unnecessary

[Plate]

So I just praise you

[Wedmak]

Maybe for inactivity mode. Do not plow the reactor at full capacity, just flying in orbit? Or maybe as a backup means of generating energy.

[Aerodrome]

I didn’t understand anything, but it was interesting.

[Amateur]

Do not plow the reactor at full capacity, just flying in orbit?

And how do you imagine on / off in a nuclear reactor?

[Avior]

Of course not.
On button should be green

[Amateur]

On button should be green

I absolutely disagree! On a nuclear reactor, ALL buttons should be red! In extreme cases, the green button should be "off" After all, it is the "greens" who are fighting for the shutdown of all nuclear / nuclear reactors.

[Avior]

No, there should be different colors, so that the staff would not be confused.
https://standartgost.ru/g/%D0%93%D0%9E%D0%A1%D0%A2_29149-91
GOST 29149-91, point 5

[Wedmak]

Retarders inward and calmly await work. The point is not that the reactor is working, but that the generated energy without load must be put somewhere.

[astepanov]

It looks like this pribluda will hang out for a long time in low-earth orbit, waiting for the next expedition, or under loading and unloading, or ... It makes no sense to drive the reactor for such "port work", but the solar battery is just that.
But something bothers me. This unit is intended for towing. The mass of figovina is 20,3 tons, but this is without load. Suppose she carries a spacecraft weighing 3 tons, this is not very much. For manned long-range expeditions, more is needed, to Mars, say - at least 30 tons. Total minimum weight - 23 tons. With a thrust of 18 N, we obtain an acceleration in zero gravity of less than 0,783 mm / s / s. Is it a lot or a little? In a day, the speed will increase by 67,62 m / s, in a month it will reach 2 km / s - this is when moving in deep space. AND
when starting from near-Earth orbit, the traction force will perform not only work to increase kinetic energy, but also against gravity - and therefore acceleration will be even slower. This means that a month after starting from near-Earth orbit, the tug will still unwind the spiral around the earth, rising higher. You can specifically calculate the time for which, for example, the orbit of the moon will be reached - but let others do it. I'm lazy.
In a year, the device will reach a speed of 24,5 km / s, i.e. taking into account the initial zero radial component, the average annual speed will be no more than 12,2 km / s. But in reality - less, because it will have to fly to Mars or Jupiter against the gravity of the Sun.
And still, this is a very decent indicator, hardly attainable in traditional "chemistry". Can it be improved? With a reactor power of 3,8 MW, 1 MW is supplied to the ID, i.e. System efficiency is 26,3%. Probably, this is where the reserve lies: with an efficiency of 50%, the thrust could be doubled, and less heat could be dumped onto the radiators. Of course, the developers are well aware of this, and therefore the low efficiency has technical reasons.
The price of xenon is around 2500 bucks per kg. With a specific impulse of 70 km / s, xenon consumption will be less than conventional rocket fuel, about 25 times - but this means that tons of xenon will still be required. In the atmosphere it is less than one part per million. In this situation, gold mining is not profitable. The world annual xenon production is now about 70 tons, of which about 21 tons are Russia, alas, together with Ukraine. It follows that the development of electric propulsion engines operating not on xenon is an urgent matter.

[Wedmak]

It is unlikely that this is a tugboat for long-distance expeditions. Rather, it will work on the Earth - Moon highway. It is necessary to gain experience in such ... towing. I think that it will deliver satellites to high orbits + to the orbit of the moon. Here, as if another question with its refueling is - how and how often?

[astepanov]

What's the point? Climb months to lunar orbit? No, this thing is interesting only in deep space. To Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, their moons, to asteroids and comets. You can even fly into the Kuiper belt. With an automatic machine, of course.

[Civil]

should be developed in 2025-26. Construction is scheduled to start in 2027, and commissioning will take place in 2030

I don’t remember a single serious project with such a planning horizon. Not to be confused with long-term construction projects such as "Ivan Gren" or "Hangars", which are outdated at the time of commissioning.

[Simargl]

The drip installation can only work if there is traction.

[Max otto]

On the contrary, with the performance as in the article with the presence of traction - it loses its meaning.
Without gravity, a drop flies where you send it.
There are articles on the Internet on this topic, walk, there the principle of operation is simple. The truth is wild for a man born to crawl .

[Proctologist]

I read it. Impressive! The flight of the mind of people who can imagine something counterintuitive. If it works, there will be another reason for pride in our science.

[Simargl]

Quote: Max Otto

With gravity, a drop flies where you send it.

So read, understand.
And guess what the problem is in the absence of gravity.

[astepanov]

Quote: Simargl

The drip installation can only work if there is traction

I explain for the dark: so that the wind blows off the heat.

[andrewkor]

At the mention of the Vostochny Cosmodrome, the gigantic dimensions of theft of government funds come to mind first!
Have you returned anything? The contract value of 13,2 billion rubles probably includes "financial risks"!

[Constructor68]

Who cares, he sees. The development is really advanced, but it’s theft that comes to mind.

[Mountain shooter]

So that's it! When I heard that 50 kW electric rocket motors were being tested at MAI, I first of all thought, what to power such a monster. And how it is! The engines were tested quite successfully ... The resource showed a good one. But the American super-duper development of a megawatt-class plasma engine somewhere "disappeared" ... And there was a noise!

[Proctologist]

Initially (from the 60s), it was intended to launch nuclear reactors into space. This was considered a settled matter, a matter of time. In practice, they changed their minds (changed their minds?). Given the high cost of putting every kg of working fluid into orbit of the Earth or beyond, electric propulsion engines seem like a very sensible idea. Roughly, energy is cheaper than mass. There is where to get it in space - from solar panels to the reactor.

The American VASIMR you mentioned (in fact, no) differed from similar projects by the possibility of throttling and its special way of heating the plasma. The project is quite interesting, but NASA focused on its advanced ion engines, and this project from the private company Ad Astra was "pushed back". The only application for VASIMR to use "right now" is to raise the ISS orbit with lower costs of the working fluid. Apparently, they considered it insufficient for funding.

[Ruslan]

in a country where the ugly zenith of the arena is being bounded, claiming that 17 billion is a lot, for such a space program, is an insult to common sense.

[ont65]

In any case, this is a project promising Roskosmos profits from the services of transporting goods to the American lunar station. After all, this thing in three months is able to deliver the same 20 tons there, which the same A5 Angara will put into a reference orbit near the Earth. What can’t you do if you want to earn big money ?! With incentives of hundreds of millions of bucks for the quarter to them (drummers cap. Labor), any accomplishments will be on the shoulder.

[armata_armata]

A full-fledged launch of TEM operation is expected in 2030

In 2030 we will remember how in 2015 we remembered the lunar base ....

[Blackmokona]

So according to the initial plans, he is already flying in space. And now 2030

[Ros 56]

The thing is good, interesting, but so far they will bring to mind it’s a pity only to live at this time of beauty ..... and far from the text. Alas, that’s selat.

[Angrybeard]

2030? All clear. This is how Medvedev said, some project-pictures. Like the Federation, like the Union-5 as well as the lunar bases. There is one thing on paper and zero in space. Everything is in the plans for now. But it’s good that the telescope was launched, and that’s the bread.

[igorbrsv]

I promise the wife to repair the third month promise

[yehat]

there is no crane on my wife

[M. Michelson]

There is an opportunity to realize another important area - geostationary landing. Until now, the spacecraft’s spacecraft has been reduced in a unique way — by braking, which causes the spacecraft to decrease its orbit, ultimately stopping in the dense layers of the atmosphere (and at the same time it is very charred). Nuclear installation will allow for reduction due to engine operationthat with the correct choice of the trajectory will allow the spacecraft to descend relative to the Earth almost vertically without huge temperatures and serious overloads, which means it is much safer.

[Proctologist]

Nuclear engines do not imply take-off / landing at all and are not designed to work in the atmosphere.

[astepanov]

Quote: M. Michelson

will allow the spacecraft to descend relative to the Earth almost vertically without huge temperatures and serious overloads

Yeah. Keep your pocket wider. Even wider! And even wider! With a thrust of 18 newtons (less than 2 kg of force) do you want to plant a softly twenty-ton stray?

[igorbrsv]

Is this the thing on the 8th day?

[Vitaly Tsymbal]

In the late 60s and early 70s, as a boy (and in those days all Soviet "boys" dreamed of space), they read about such engines only in science fiction literature, but now it is a reality !!!! In the 90s and 2000s, there was a feeling that our (of all mankind, and not just in the Russian Federation) movement into space stopped, turning from a scientific into a commercial enterprise. It's good that I was wrong, there is still "gunpowder in powder" among the romantics of exploring the vastness of the universe. GOOD MEN. No, not only that they create something new, well done, that they did not abandon the romance of space, having engaged only in "stuffing their pockets with money" on the development of space explorers.

[Sky strike fighter]

Very similar to the operating principle of the Petrel engine. You can compare with the device of the engine Petrel.

The explosion that took place on August 8 at a military training ground near Severodvinsk (Arkhangelsk Region) was caused by tests of a rocket with unlimited flight range with solid-propellant starting and air-propelled marching electric motors, an aviation expert Vadim Lukashevich wrote on Facebook.
According to a specialist, a solid-propellant mixed-propellant starting engine provides rocket launch and acceleration to cruising flight speeds, and then shuts down. “And then a regular air-jet engine [WFD] starts to work with a rotating screw or compressor, driven not by the combustion products of aviation fuel (like conventional WFDs), but by electricity coming from a radioisotope energy source,” the expert is sure.
Lukashevich said that such a source "is not a nuclear reactor in the full sense of the word, because it lacks a controlled fission reaction of nuclei." “There is an active isotope that creates a very high temperature, which is directly converted to electricity. In fact, it is a highly efficient radioisotope thermoelectric converter. The main engine can work for a very long time, day, week or several months, and this is determined not by the supply of jet fuel (it simply isn’t), but by the resource of the moving mechanical parts of the engine, ”the specialist believes.

https://m.lenta.ru/news/2019/08/13/burevestnik2/

[bayard]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Lukashevich said that such a source "is not a nuclear reactor in the full sense of the word, because it lacks a controlled fission reaction of nuclei." “There is an active isotope that creates a very high temperature, which is directly converted to electricity. In fact, it is a highly efficient radioisotope thermoelectric converter.

Sounds scientific with the prefix "pseudo".
If this is not a controlled reaction, but an "active isotope that creates a very high temperature," then how will it behave BEFORE START - in standby mode? Where will he do with his "very high temperature"? Isn't he uncontrollable? It is an isotope that has its own constant half-life ...
It is much easier to believe in the heating chamber from the fuel element of the incoming flow with the expiration through the nozzle. TVEL can even be controlled. Moreover, in the frames shown, the outflow of hot, brightly glowing gases from the nozzle was clearly visible.

And you shouldn't associate the accident with the "Petrel". Not worth it at all. It was a completely different product.
Firstly, the fire was on the SHIP. So, a sample of MARINE weapons was tested.
Secondly, it was clearly said - the explosion of a LIQUID rocket engine.
A short-term burst of radiation is associated with the destruction of the "nuclear battery" - the power source for the launch equipment. This "battery" is heavy and bulky, you can't put it on a product. But to provide power to the launch and launcher for a long period of the OBD - that's the thing.
It is possible that the product was hit or dropped due to sea disturbance or for another reason, there was a leak of fuel components - very flammable and poisonous (amyl-heptyl). Fire and explosion + chemical contamination with extremely toxic components. Hence the isolation of the area until the complete neutralization of this poison.
The testers were not lucky - they were on this ship and apparently next to the product.
Condolences to relatives, friends and colleagues.
But this incident has nothing to do with the "Petrel" - it has a land start.

[bar]

Quote: Amateur

And why do we need a solar panel in the presence of 1 mW of electricity from a nuclear power plant?
Or was it "for beauty" added?

energy is never superfluous. all the more free.

[bar]

Quote: Amateur

And how do you imagine on / off in a nuclear reactor?

as usual, "lowering" the rods and decreasing the neutron flux

[Saxahorse]

Quote: bar

as usual, "lowering" the rods and decreasing the neutron flux

At a reactor, the neutron flux never decreases to zero. He has no "Off." basically.

[bar]

And you basically need "off"? Or is the concept of "drowning the reactor" enough?

[Saxahorse]

Quote: bar

Or is the concept of "drowning out the reactor" enough?

Yes, in principle. :) No, not enough. This "damped" reactor continues to heat up and if there is nowhere to dump the heat, a big "boom bar" awaits you. Think of Fukushima.

[yehat]

I didn’t understand about cooling, is there a supply of cooling liquid that will be used?
But it was impossible to come up with a device that with photons that have gained energy will give off excess energy?

[Simargl]

Quote: yehat

But it was impossible to come up with a device that with photons that have gained energy will give off excess energy?

Almost it is. There wild minusers did not understand the design and instructed me nasty things.
In space, there are two options for heat loss: radiation and heat transfer. The second method is wasteful in mass. In spacesuits he is used, usually. The first method is used in spacecraft and satellites.
But the coolant is driven along an airtight circuit.
A sealed circuit is a parasitic mass of emitters.
Ours solved the problem in a very original way: the vacuum is around and parasitic gravity is practically absent, we decided to make the coolant circuit open - the radiator is, in fact, a sprinkler, only the coolant does not evaporate, but emits.
Now the answer is why there are solar panels and why the installation will not work without acceleration: solar energy is needed for the drift mode, when the locomotive is loaded / unloaded at the end point; a drip installation will not work without acceleration / gravity (or it will, but it will be bad) - you can "shoot" a drop in the right direction, but collecting / pumping out the droplets is problematic.

[yehat]

Something I do not believe that the evaporation of the coolant will be minimal.
made in vain

[Simargl]

Quote: yehat

Something I do not believe that the evaporation of the coolant will be minimal.

Even funnier: the helium-xenon mixture is announced, this is gas. There will be no change in state of aggregation.
And in space - the main thing is not to splash.

[yehat]

if you take something like mercury with a serious coefficient. surface tension can be assumed
that it will not evaporate, but some kind of left gas ??? and what will keep it from banal expansion?

[Simargl]

Quote: yehat

if you take something like mercury with a serious coefficient. surface tension, it can be assumed that it will not evaporate

It will freeze, because melting point - -39C. However, evaporate too.

Quote: yehat

but some kind of left gas ??? and what will keep it from banal expansion?

Why left?
Nothing holds back from expansion. I think they came up with something.

[astepanov]

Quote: yehat

something i don't believe

Nobody makes you believe. There, the coolant is an alloy based on bismuth. The vapor pressure is completely negligible, evaporation can be neglected, even for the entire time of operation.

[yehat]

at first, no one believed in the evaporation of the Earth’s atmosphere, until experiments showed directly.

[astepanov]

Good, good, let it evaporate. A couple will pass — three billion years, half a percent of bismuth will evaporate, we will sit down and weep together.

Quote: yehat

at first no one believed in the evaporation of the Earth’s atmosphere,

Yes? Nobody is right? And the fact that the equation relating atmospheric pressure to altitude was derived more than a hundred years ago, and more than a hundred years ago it was shown that pressure only at infinity becomes zero, do you not take into account? You wouldn’t give your own ideas for a fact, otherwise it’s somehow ugly.

[astepanov]

Quote: Simargl

but collecting / pumping droplets is problematic.

Liquid metals have huge surface tension, and therefore their droplets merge and spread over any wetted surface. It remains to direct from this surface the pump into the cooling circuit. On Earth, this can be prevented by the oxidation of the metal - therefore, for example, tin or lead powders during melting may not combine into droplets: a film of oxides interferes. In a vacuum, there is no such problem.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

It remains to direct from this surface the pump into the cooling circuit.

Your problem - you cannot imagine how the substance will behave in the absence of gravity. Any pump will "suck" a tube (open cavity) in a liquid or gas and will run idle until this “tube” shuts up, which could be a long story. With the advent of gravity, everything is simplified: not only do open cavities tighten automatically, or rather, do not appear, but also there is a possibility of "gravity" based on convection.

[astepanov]

Quote: Simargl

Your problem is you cannot imagine how a substance will behave in the absence of gravity.

And your problem is not knowing the basics of physics. It is not at all easy to "break" a liquid, the internal forces in it are not much weaker than in a solid. Tensile stress in a liquid can reach up to a rupture value of - 25 MPa - 250 atmospheres! http://lib.sernam.ru/book_t_phis.php?id=73 And about the "cavity in the gas" - such a foam that I don't even want to comment. In your opinion, there is no pressure in the gas in zero gravity? Doesn't the Boyle-Mariotte equation work in zero gravity? Show where the gravity is in this equation - then we'll talk.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

And your problem is ignorance of the basics of physics.

I’m already teaching.

Quote: astepanov

It is not at all easy to "break" a liquid, the internal forces in it are not much weaker than in a solid.

How do you drink tea? Do you bite off portions with your teeth?

Quote: astepanov

And about the "cavity in the gas" - such a foam that I don't even want to comment.

And how will a gas differ from a liquid, by and large, under zero gravity?

Quote: astepanov

In your opinion, there is no pressure in zero gravity in gas?

It is among the adherents of the Lunar conspiracy that there is no pressure on the surface of the Moon, but I do not belong to them, because of this I have some idea.

Quote: astepanov

Does the Boyle-Mariotte equation in zero gravity work?

Uh ... what does weightlessness have to do with it? You well understood how you decided to organize a refrigerator? The coolant moves along open contour: in the radiation zone (heat rejection), it moves in open space, i.e. practically in a vacuum.

[astepanov]

Quote: Simargl

And how will a gas differ from a liquid, by and large, under zero gravity?

I don’t have to explain this to you. Open at least Peryshkin’s textbook. Do you think that if you open a gas cylinder in zero gravity, then the gas will remain in it? What can a hole be cut out in a gas and it will not overgrow? Continue to remain in a pleasant delusion.

Quote: Simargl

Uh ... what does weightlessness have to do with it?

Despite the fact that gas laws relate to the behavior of gases, and what you dragged a refrigerator into, I do not understand at all. And liquid metal can be perfectly collected both in vacuum and in zero gravity. There are no physical obstacles to this. Developers, unlike you, understand this.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

Do you think that if you open a gas cylinder in zero gravity, then the gas will remain in it?

Yes, calm down you! The helium-xenon mixture appears to be the first loop of the reactor and is in a closed loop.

Quote: astepanov

Developers, unlike you, understand this.

Of course they understand! Therefore, the backup cooling circuit is closed (traditional).

[astepanov]

Miracle, the first circuit is not a backup. And it is closed because it is gas. March to school, ignoramus! In first grade! To the preparatory nursery!

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

Miracle, the first circuit is not a backup. And it is closed because it is gas. March to school, ignoramus! In first grade! To the preparatory nursery!

Pretending to be a fool?

Quote: astepanov

The helium-xenon mixture appears to be first contour the reactor and is in a closed loop.

Quote: Simargl

because spare circuit cooling - closed (traditional).

You at least looked at the picture again, and did not send to the school someone who can teach you something.

As I understand it, you absolutely do not understand what is shown in the picture.

[astepanov]

No, dear, you don't understand that. Every heat engine has a working fluid through which heat is converted into work. This is what thermodynamics teaches. In our case, the working fluid is a xenon-containing mixture, if only because it is a gas that expands very well from heating, unlike a metallic melt. Thermal energy cannot be completely converted into mechanical work (see "Carnot Cycle"), and some of the heat must be dumped into a refrigerator, which is played by outer space. For this, it is convenient to use a metal melt - it is sprayed to increase the radiation surface, because there is no other way in space. Therefore, it is wild to say that the gas circuit is a reserve one. Without it, the whole system will not work. You can just as well declare that the water circuit in the ground reactor is a reserve one, and you can turn the turbine without it.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

No, dear, you don’t understand.

And what made us related?

Quote: astepanov

And therefore, to say that the gas circuit is reserve is wild.

Where did I write this? Do you know how to read? I offered to calm down - first, understand? The first one is the one closest to the energy source - the gas one! About backup material !!!! I did not say a word about the BACK circuit, but it can be either gas or any other suitable one, because he is CLOSED !!!!
I’m tired of you smashing wild stuff, misinterpreting my words, and then writing from myself what I already wrote.
Look carefully at the picture I repeated. Delve into the letters "Auxiliary refrigerator-radiator".
Then, maybe, you can argue that the main drip refrigerator can work without acceleration.

[astepanov]

Are you stuck? Where did you find the BACKUP contour? What does he reserve? The backup device is used in special cases, but there is no backup device, there is a first circuit!
Go better look for cavities in the gas.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

Where did you find the BACKUP contour?

For those in the tank: reserve, auxiliary - call it what you want. If you have been reposted with a picture where the "Auxiliary refrigerator-radiator" is clearly shown, but you do not see it - take a course of iodine-containing preparations, should it help?

Quote: astepanov

The backup device is used in special cases, but there is no backup

Reserve or auxiliary. The difference is small. There is only one meaning: it works at the time when the drip is incompetent.

Quote: astepanov

there is a first circuit!

The reactor can have from one heat exchange loop, even a "dry" one - for example, it can be overlaid with Peltier elements.
In this case, the first circuit is gas, the rest are not clear. But at least two, most likely parallel, "from above": auxiliary / backup and main - drip. If you don't understand and mix everything together: auxiliary, main, first, second - these are words for you.

[astepanov]

Sir,
To begin with, the use of Peltier elements in this case is absolutely pointless. If you have at least the beginnings of a technical education, then you should realize that this venture will do nothing but harm.
Second. The xenon-containing mixture is a working fluid, therefore, without its participation, a nuclear installation cannot generate energy in any way - just as a steam locomotive cannot go without water. Only a complete ignoramus can call this contour "auxiliary". There are no auxiliary or secondary circuits in the design - they all work as a whole, everything is necessary and the failure of any of them will kill the entire system.
The third. You either believe that it is impossible to collect droplets of metal melt in zero gravity, then you declare that a cavity (in zero gravity) can be cut out in gas - I have not seen or heard more rubbish. And you climb with this baggage to judge something. Not ashamed?

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

Sir,
To begin with, the use of Peltier elements in this case is absolutely pointless.

Cause? They are not here. Because, as this is just one of the types of converters.

Quote: astepanov

If you have at least the beginnings of a technical education

You don’t have it. They even gave me a cardboard with a piece of paper.

Quote: astepanov

this venture will do nothing but harm

Will the bees die? Why are Peltiers harmful ?! Or have you not yet come up with?

Quote: astepanov

Only a complete ignoramus can call this contour "auxiliary".

You consider yourself a competent person, but like a stupid ram you fight on the same thing its statement believing that I once wrote this.
However, I wrote earlier:

Quote: Simargl

I offered to calm down - firstDo you understand? The first one is the one closest to the energy source - the gas one!

Quote: Simargl

The helium-xenon mixture appears to be first the loop of the reactor and is in a closed loop.

Quote: Simargl

Yes, calm down you! The helium-xenon mixture appears to be first reactor loop

Are you pretending not to be a smart person? I repeated three times that he is the first, and you write about the auxiliary!
About the working fluid - what are you talking about? Do you even know how the VVR is arranged, for example?

Quote: astepanov

There are no auxiliary or secondary circuits in the design - they all work as a whole, all are necessary and the failure of any of them will kill the whole system.

Are you a constructor?
Although no ... You did not understand a word of what I wrote. You absolutely do not understand how all this can work (you cannot say "how it works" - we have not been told this yet, and therefore we are just guessing). I tried to explain how this can work, but it's useless for a technically illiterate person.

Quote: astepanov

You either believe that it is impossible to collect droplets of metal melt in zero gravity, then you declare that a cavity (in zero gravity) can be cut out in gas - I have not seen or heard more rubbish.

The liquid is only wetted and only collected. There will be hemorrhoids with everything: getting into the trap, making sure that the drop does not splash, pumping out this liquid, which should be distributed through the drive only by surface tension without breaks ... should I tell you more?
The gas joke of humor failed. I repent.

[astepanov]

Quote: Simargl

Of course they understand! Therefore, the backup cooling circuit is closed (traditional).

Quote: Simargl

You consider yourself to be a competent person, but like a stupid ram you are fighting about the same statement, considering that I once wrote this.

Didn't you write it using the word "reserve"? ? Pushkin, perhaps? Maybe the quote will convince you?

Quote: Simargl

Will the bees die? Why are Peltiers harmful ?! Or have you not yet come up with?

What is there to think? The Pelté element is the same as a thermoelectric generator, just the opposite: electricity is used to create a temperature difference. Those. first you want to create a temperature difference in the reactor, then through the heat engine to get electricity and, finally, convert this energy back to heat. Maybe you think that it is possible to cool the heat sink circuit in this way? If so, then you do not own the basics of thermodynamics.

Quote: Simargl

You have not understood a word of what I have written. You absolutely do not understand how all this can work (you cannot say "how it works" - we have not been told this yet, and therefore we are just guessing). I tried to explain how this can work, but it's useless for a technically illiterate person.

Sir, regarding the "technically illiterate person", refer to your loved one. I have more patents introduced into series production than you and your wife have - even if you haven't lost a single tooth. And my degree is also "so-called" - if you know what it means. And he has over forty years of experience in applied science. So don't be rude, dear. By the way, it is well known how it works - unless you have no time to read. The scheme is traditional: the reactor heats the working fluid (gas),
He turns a turbine with a generator on the shaft, the heat of the spent gas is discharged into the refrigerators. Google, and you will be happy.

Quote: Simargl

About the working fluid - what are you talking about?

The fact that you should not skip lectures on thermodynamics. A working body is a gaseous or liquid substance, with the help of which any energy is converted into mechanical work or heat. The most common working fluids: water vapor - in steam turbines, fossil fuel combustion products - in internal combustion engines, refrigerants - in refrigerators. In rocket technology, rocket fuel is considered to be a working fluid.

Quote: Simargl

The liquid is only wetted and only collected. Hemorrhoids will be with everything: to get into the trap, to make sure that the drop does not splash, to pump out this liquid, which even without breaks should be distributed across the drive only by surface tension ...

You are beginning to show signs of intelligence. If you still knew that the surface tension of metals is hundreds of times greater than water ...

Quote: Simargl

With gas, a joke of humor failed.

Just do not lie that it was a joke.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

Didn't you write it using the word "reserve"?

I wrote what I wrote, but you don’t understand what it refers to.

Quote: astepanov

The Pelt element is the same as a thermoelectric generator, just the opposite:

Uh ... cho ?!
The Pelt element is reversible thermoelectric electric machine converter.

Quote: astepanov

Those. you first want to create a temperature difference in the reactor

Repeat again! I record your pearls. Even the humanitarian wife giggles. No, I’m not a god and I don’t know how to separate heat from cold.

Quote: astepanov

then by means of a heat engine to receive electricity and, finally, this energy again converted into heat.

It happens in your sick imagination. However, if literally - you are right. Only the heat engine here is the Peltier element, and the heat producer is the electric rocket engine and auxiliary equipment.

Quote: astepanov

Maybe you think that it is possible to cool the heat sink circuit in this way?

I can not understand your scheme. My worthless brains draw as simple as a piece of paper.

Quote: astepanov

I have more patents introduced into serial production than you and your wife’s teeth - even if you haven’t lost a single tooth.

And what does it mean?

Quote: astepanov

The scheme is traditional: the reactor heats the working fluid (gas),
He turns a turbine with a generator on the shaft, the heat of the spent gas is discharged into the refrigerators.

How do closed-cycle steam turbine plants work, I know. So what?
In the variant with Peltier, only the "working fluid" in the form of a heat carrier moves.

Quote: astepanov

Google, and you will be happy.

My profession is on the other hand of a heat engine. But I am familiar with the process.

To draw laziness ...
(reactor)> (Peltier element)> (in auxiliary refrigerator, main refrigerator), accumulators, solar panels and consumers hang on the terminals of Eltier elements. Plus, there is also a circuit for collecting heat from auxiliary equipment (also through a Peltier element or a conventional refrigerator), which dumps heat to the refrigerators directly or from the side of the reactor.

[astepanov]

Sir, a thermoelectric generator is usually called a thermoelectric generator, and the Pelt element is a refrigerator, and nothing else, although they are mutually reversible. The pump and the compressor are also mutually reversible, but nobody will call the compressor the pump. No one is obliged to understand the terminology that you have come up with for yourself.
Only an ignoramus can propose using a thermoelectric generator for a space installation: it has an efficiency lower than a gas turbine engine, and much more. Power losses, increased load on the refrigerator ... Finally, in the darkness of the sources it is directly indicated: a turbomachine energy conversion system. This is the question of which of us has a sick imagination. And all your ridiculous fantasies are not worth a penny.
I'm tired of your stubborn arrogance combined with illiteracy.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

and the Pelt element is a refrigerator,

what ?!
Yes .. you understand how it works so-so ...
The Peltier element is neither a refrigerator nor a heater! This is a CONVERTER !!! Read 50 times for understanding.
Attach the potential difference to the conclusions - get the temperature difference on the surfaces, heat one side, cool the other - here is the potential difference at the terminals.

Quote: astepanov

No one is obliged to understand the terminology that you have come up with for yourself.

What terminology? Reversible electric machine? Do you understand exactly what this means?

Quote: astepanov

its efficiency is lower than a gas turbine engine, and much more.

Truth? You're lying.
Peltier has up to 60%, if that.

Quote: astepanov

I'm tired of your stubborn arrogance combined with illiteracy.

Well, after your pearls about the principles of the Peltier element ... and how to understand

Quote: astepanov

The pump and the compressor are also mutually reversible, but nobody will call the compressor the pump.

It’s not clear at all.

[astepanov]

Sir, the thermoelectric generator works on the Seebeck effect, and the heat transfer under the influence of external EMF is the Peltier effect. So do not show ignorance. And - about the efficiency of thermoelectric generators (TEG). Talking about efficiency as such is pointless, since it depends on the temperature difference at the inlet and outlet. As applied to TEG, one speaks of the relation between the efficiency of TEG and the efficiency of the ideal Carnot cycle under the same conditions. It is clear to Kose that the temperature of the cold junction cannot be lower than 545 K - the melting temperature of bismuth from the cooling circuit, and the hot - 1470 K, the temperature of the working zone of the reactor. Hence the ultimate efficiency is easily considered. We open the directory and find that the efficiency of high-temperature TEG is 23%. We multiply by 0,66 - the efficiency of the Carnot cycle under these conditions - and we find that the final efficiency is less than 15,2%. Some of this will be consumed by our own needs, for example, pumping the coolant through radiators, and a very sad figure will remain at the output. In reality, we have (on a turbine generator) 1 MW of power with a thermal power of the reactor of 3,8 MW, i.e. Efficiency 26,3% - with all losses. That's why they put a turbine there, not a thermopile. Teach a primer, sir, and do not pretend to be a specialist.
I think that you will not stop, continue to appeal to your wife, cut holes in the gas and carry nonsense. Come on, sir, this is very funny.

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

Sir, the thermoelectric generator works on the Seebeck effect, and the heat transfer under the influence of external EMF is the Peltier effect.

Initially, I talked about the Peltier element. This, I repeat, is a reversible electric machine (semiconductor, if that), with an efficiency of up to 60%. Peltier himself has a very indirect relation to the modern semiconductor device: he (the device) appeared much later than the death of both Seebeck and Peltier, and Thompson came up with it (then why the Peltier element - FIG knows it).

Quote: astepanov

We open the directory and find that the efficiency of high-temperature TEG is 23%. We multiply by 0,66 - the efficiency of the Carnot cycle under these conditions - and we find that the final efficiency is less than 15,2%.

Of the brechopedia, according to Carnot - 77%, not 15.

Quote: astepanov

Some of this will be consumed by our own needs, for example, pumping the coolant through radiators, and a very sad figure will remain at the output.

Wait! We are talking about the operation of the converter ... however, I agree: you need to consider the efficiency of the system. The direct converter will have higher efficiency.

Quote: astepanov

Come on, sir, this is very funny.

Element Storm-71, supplied power up to 60W, thermal up to 35W. Read the efficiency. Yes, not air conditioning with a difference of 200-250%, but still.

[astepanov]

Sir, you are again demonstrating amazing ignorance. Read the Storm-71 datasheet: COLD 36 Watt with 60 Watt power. Meanwhile, according to the Carnot cycle for an ideal heat engine, the cooling capacity should be more than 70 watts. And remember: a heat engine is used to turn heat energy into work (mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc.). Its efficiency, even in principle, cannot exceed the efficiency of the Carnot cycle and is always less than unity. A heat pump in the form of an ideal refrigerator always has an efficiency (ratio of transferred heat energy to perfect work) greater than one.
By the way, tell me: what are you going to cool there - is it really a reactor? What for? And where to get energy for this?
Sir, reading you, I am losing faith in the rationality of humanity. Is the porridge that you eat, gets into your brain bypassing the stomach?

[Simargl]

Quote: astepanov

By the way, tell me: what are you going to cool there - is it really a reactor?

Those. what I wrote above was not read ... but then what was the point in writing?
I'll try again: the Peltier element is a reversible electric machine, a thermoelectric converter.
Unclear?
Once again: on the one hand we heat (reactor, burner), on the other we cool (radiator, drip radiator), we get current at the terminals. You can vice versa: apply current to the terminals, get the temperature difference on the surfaces.

Quote: astepanov

And where to get energy for this?

[astepanov]

There is no need for an electric refrigerator there, but as an example, you brought a refrigerator exactly - and what should I have thought? Once again: the efficiency of thermoelectric generators is much lower than gas-turbine converters. You cited as an example the Storm-71, designed to work as a refrigerator, and only in this capacity has a decent efficiency. Excuse me: with this device, the efficiency of converting heat to work would be less than 5%, even if it worked perfectly. Do not believe? Prove by calculation. Or still do not dare to sign in ignorance?

Quote: Simargl

I'll try again: the Peltier element is a reversible electric machine, a thermoelectric converter.

Not a gram is reversible. You do not understand the basics of thermodynamics.

[bar]

Quote: Civil

Something I do not remember a single serious project with such a planning horizon.

Let me remind you that the nuclear jet engine in the USSR began to be developed in the early 60s, and the finished result in the form of a "petrel" just appeared (if the announcer does not lie to us (c)

[Blackmokona]

Both the US and the US began to develop a rocket similar to the Petrel almost simultaneously, and the research went quickly and successfully. And then ICBMs appeared which were a thousand times better and completely buried projects.

[bar]

Atomic rocket engines began to be developed long before rockets. It was planned to put them on strategic bombers. There were prototypes and stands for their testing (at the training ground in Semipalatinsk). So hurt by the petrel since the Soviet era was decent.

[bar]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Very similar to the operating principle of the Petrel engine. You can compare with the device of the engine Petrel.

absolutely not. in the "petrel" the working fluid (air) is heated by the heated elements of the heat exchanger, and, expanding, is thrown out through the nozzle. essentially a conventional turbojet engine with a modified "combustion chamber". In an ion engine, a neutral gas is ionized by a stream of electrons and thrown out behind a powerful electromagnetic field. something like this.

[Umalta]

How it is known to the petrel is not known to you or me, but the fact that these are related things is unequivocal.

[bar]

"Petrel" did not appear out of nowhere, work on the atomic jet engine was carried out in the USSR since the beginning of the 60s. And the samples were built and tested at the stands in Semipalatinsk, and the aircraft project was with such an An-22PLO engine, and the flying laboratory was Tu-95LAL. By the way, the Americans were doing similar work at the same time. So at least the principle of operation of the petrel engine has long been known. And it has very little in common with the "ion engine"

[bar]

Quote: Proctologist

Nuclear engines do not imply take-off / landing at all and are not designed to work in the atmosphere.

You do not confuse nuclear engines with electric jet engines, that is, with ion? nuclear just do not work without the atmosphere, like conventional turbojets, because the working fluid there is atmospheric air.

[missuris]

but in fact, nuclear engines can work in space to heat the working fluid in one cooling loop of the reactor and use this heated something as a jet stream for movement

[bar]

Firstly, for this it is necessary to drag too much of this working fluid with you into space. Secondly, chemical-fired rockets do an excellent job of this. The feature of _electric_ rocket engines is that they can accelerate the working fluid (plasma) to ultrahigh speeds, an order of magnitude higher than conventional chemical ones. For the protection of this, they have an excellent specific impulse, and, accordingly, a large amount of that body is not required.

[missuris]

I know this, but the acceleration of all electric ones is relatively long, and the bodies in the nearby asteroid belt fly in huge blocks

[ilik54]

In 22 years, the Universal Wave Oscillation Generator (UHVK) will be created.
The principle of operation of the GWHC is to generate and transmit wave information of an object of different levels from one point in space to another. Thus, the superposition effect in quantum mechanics is confirmed, according to which the location of an object is assumed immediately everywhere, and only after determining its properties, it materializes in space.
The levels of information transmission can be different, from the transmission of sound and image to the transmission of the object itself.
In the same way energy can be transmitted, in fact, wave information of a higher level is transmitted in order to receive energy. GWHCs are possible both for home use and for industrial use, up to moving in interstellar space.
It is probably possible to adjust the transmitted object during transmission. For example, when teleporting a person, it will be possible to conduct his rejuvenation or health adjustment. Moreover, during materialization, they arose at the desired point in space-time, and not only within the materializer.

[Operator]

YaERD + shower of drops = budget savings.

NRE + tank with liquid hydrogen = our everything.

[Cresta999]

Well, finally, the news is at least somehow comparable with the affairs of the Union! And then everyone wrote about one - two aircraft delivered to the troops. Well done! Very interesting project!

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

Helium-xenon mixture as a coolant? Gas as a coolant? Yes, even with high volatility? Then the ancestors were stupid, they used metal coolants. Then I ran a quick glimpse of the article as not worthy of attention.

[Falcon5555]

Helium-cooled reactors worked in the west. Inert, does not absorb neutrons.

[bar]

Quote: missuris

I know this, but the acceleration of all electric ones is relatively long, and the bodies in the nearby asteroid belt fly in huge blocks

Do you propose to catch lumps and turn them into working bodies? So in space a lot of things fly. For example, there is relatively a lot of hydrogen, the density of which, when moving at near-light speeds, should be enough for a thermonuclear reaction. I read about the design of such a photon engine with calculations. But all this is a very distant future, and electric rocket engines are already present, and are already in full use. As for the long overclocking, in certain situations it does not matter much. But they have an excellent specific impulse, require a minimum of a working fluid and are able, albeit slowly, to accelerate space stations to high speeds inaccessible to traditional chemical ones.

[Falcon5555]

How will they display it? The missiles have a few percent probability, at least. Moreover, this is when they have already been tested and mass-produced. The new payload can kick up too. That is, for every 20-30 launches, and at the beginning much more often, there will be one minicar or Nyonoksa, if not Hiroshima? And the trajectories from the east go, as far as I understand, over Alaska and the United States!
How will they act in case of failure in orbit? But it is clear that he will refuse - a matter of time. The huge area of ​​radiators will lead to rapid braking and fall from near-Earth orbit.
But for the fight against asteroids, this is a very useful groundwork. With an asteroid threat, the risk can be justified.

[Pacifist with AK]

Quote: igorbrsv

I promise the wife to repair the third month promise

This is to the urologist

[Basarev]

This is all garbage, once several rocket launches are launched into orbit. Now, if they were engaged in a rocket-free conclusion, it would really be worthy of attention.

[Umalta]

Yeah, the deadlines are impressive, I’m unlikely to live up to the triumph of the Russian Federation, the amount is ridiculous, it would be possible to finance more abruptly, success, especially since the people and the country are so breakthrough and need and need it as soon as possible !!!