Lend-Lease: Interest and Comparisons

485
“Now they say that the Allies never helped us ... But it cannot be denied that the Americans drove so many materials without which we could not build up our reserves and could not continue the war ... We got 350 thousand cars, but what cars !. We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. There was nothing to equip rifle cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder, explosives. And how much they drove us to sheet steel. How could we quickly set up production tanksif not for American steel help. And now they present the matter in such a way that we had all of this in abundance. ”
Karpov V.V. Marshal Zhukov: Opala. M .: Veche, 1994


Lend-Lease in numbers. Released not so long ago article on the Lend-Lease on the materials of the newspaper "Pravda" aroused the obvious interest of the “VO” readership, but the comments on it personally left a strange impression on me. Well, let's say, tolerantly speaking, some people just read it inattentively, and commented on it without thinking at all. And someone read in it what was not there at all, and why so, it is not clear at all. Meanwhile, it was written in black and white that it is, in fact, a reprint of the official document from the Pravda newspaper. Which has been made in order that this source became known to readers "IN". And, by the way, there was immediately a person who found both this number of the newspaper and a copy of the “Message ...” and put it in his commentary. Why didn't I do this? But it became curious whether anyone has enough skills with a computer to work and interest in this topic. I see that there is a skill, and there is enough interest, although not all. Many immediately began scribbling "accusations" of Russophobia, and God knows what else, but this is all about Pravda, the press organ of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B). For me personally, this is nothing more than an official source of information, which for some reason in our country has not been used for a long time. I just put the stingy lines of a dry newspaper message in a readable literary text. Everything! So do not look for devils in the censer, it is stupid, and I would even say meaningless. Who is trying to refute this way? The document, the publication of which permission was given by Stalin himself? For it is unlikely that 11 of June 1944 of the year without its indication in print could have appeared a document containing such important information for the country. Many, however, expressed wishes for more specific information, as well as comparisons and comparisons ... Well, now we will continue this topic! But first, let's think, why did this “Message ...” appear at all?



Lend-Lease: Interest and Comparisons

US President Franklin D. Roosevelt Signs Lend-Lease Law


An article in Pravda is a good PR!


As you know, in the USSR there was no PR, and even more than that, theses defended themselves, where it was explicitly stated that this was an invention of the bourgeoisie with the aim of duping the working people. And yes, it really is. But it is like a hammer with which you can smash your head, and you can hammer nails. For example, what did the residents of Berlin feel when they saw how strongly tanned young men in white shorts and girls in short skirts pass in front of them, striking a step? And what did Muscovites think when girls in white shorts and boys in white trousers walked in the same way on Red Square? Both those and others rejoiced, and experienced exactly the same positive emotions. This, by the way, is the real PR, which has always been in our country, not only in words, of course, but in practice! Why at first Hitler in the same “Pravda” was called a cannibal and painted offensive cartoons on him? The enemy was, and the enemy must be laughed at! And why, after the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, they began to call him the “Chancellor of the German Nation” and send congratulations? And because now we were "friends", and friends are useless to scold.


For those who want to get acquainted with all the details history Lend-Lease - with all the dates, figures and testimonies of the Russian participants in the war, we can recommend the book: By Albert L. Weeks, Lexington Books, New York, 2004.


Here and the publication of a message from 11 June 1944, the goal of informational influence on the society of the USSR and ... the leadership of Nazi Germany. In our people, of course, we have already felt the weariness of the war and its burden, and it was necessary to “please” it, to show how much everything is sent to us, that with such support “victory will be ours”. Accordingly, Hitler’s leadership, which Pravda also read, was given a clear message: “You cannot be defeated by us with such help from the United States, Britain and Canada.” That is why these completely secret figures were made public in it, and they were absolutely correct. What if the Germans would find out, say, overestimated, through some of their spy channels? Then everything could be attributed to "Bolshevik propaganda." And then, n-ee, in Pravda everything is true! Can you imagine what a blow it was to the consciousness of the German leadership? So the publication of this message should be considered as a very intelligent and thoughtful course of the Soviet leadership in its informational opposition to Nazi Germany. The significance of this message is indicated by the fact that its text was reprinted with ALL ARMY FRONT NEWSPAPERS. For example, I got his text in the newspaper 4-th Guards Tank Army "To defeat the enemy." Excerpts from the message reprinted ALL local newspapers, such as "Stalin's flag", "Working Truth", "Stalin's way" and others. And the letters "from the people", published in them in response; “With deep satisfaction ...” and so on, the citizens of the USSR wrote in them. Another thing is that later this information became profitable to be silent about, which is why neither Zhukov, Yakovlev, nor their ilk referred to this official source. That is, there was freedom of speech and freedom not to enjoy this freedom!


September 1940 of the year. US destroyers at the port of Davenport. "Destroyers in exchange for bases"


"Dervish" and other PQ


Surprisingly, many VO readers do not see at all what is written in the text before their eyes, and the official text. Foaming at the mouth - otherwise you will not say, they claim that ... help came only at the end of the war, and at the beginning it was not there. But is it? To begin with, the industrial potential of the two countries at war against Hitler - Great Britain and the USSR in general terms as of June 1941, was 1: 1. In this case, Britain actually lost the battle for the Atlantic, because of which even went to an unprecedented agreement "destroyers in exchange for the base" with the non-fighting at the time the United States. And the question arises, how can you help another country when you have a “case of joints”? However, please note that in the “Message ...” the following dates of commencement of deliveries are indicated: from the UK - “From 22 June 1941 of the year to 30 of April of 1944 –th”. That is, it is clear that it wasn’t something we’ve already been sent to 22 of June, but the negotiations on deliveries began immediately after the start of the war and were positive, otherwise Pravda would have said it!


The flagship of the convoy PQ-6 cruiser "Edinburgh"


But the data on the first Atlantic convoys from the UK, held in 1941 year. The first convoy was called "Dervish" and did not yet have a letter designation. The Dervish departed from 21 August Iceland and arrived in Arkhangelsk 31 August 1941. It was followed by PQ-1 (Iceland 29 September - Arkhangelsk 11 October); PQ-2 (Liverpool October 13 - Arkhangelsk October 30); PQ-3 (Iceland 9 November - Arkhangelsk 22 November); PQ-4 (Iceland 17 November - Arkhangelsk 28 November); PQ-5 (Iceland 27 November - Arkhangelsk 13 December); PQ-6 (Iceland December 8 - Murmansk December 20).

The Dervish consisted of 6 ships carrying 10 000 tons of rubber, 1 500 tons of soldiers' boots, tin, wool, industrial equipment, ammunition 3 800 depth charges and magnetic mines, and 15 disassembled fighters "Hrichein". Another 24 aircraft "Hurricane" was on board the aircraft carrier "Argus". The PQ-1 already included 10 of commercial ships loaded with aluminum, rubber and copper, 20 tanks and 193 Hurricane fighters. What was put up by other convoys is probably also known, but finding this information is not so easy. However, judging by the list of understanding of what is required in the first place, then it was not yet. For example, it is not very clear whether we really needed these depth charges and whether it was not more useful to order more of the same copper or machine tools. But the British, too, could not give all that we wanted. So the balance of interests associated with military supplies from England, before the US entered the war, was clearly not in our favor. However, it is also clear that “one’s own shirt is always closer to the body” and why this is so is understandable. Moreover, we emphasize that, according to the Anglo-Soviet agreement of 27 June 1942, the military aid of Great Britain to the Soviet Union during the war was declared completely free. But until this date, the USSR paid for supplies in gold and currency, that is, in fact, bought what was sent to him on these first convoys.


One of the ships involved in the wiring of the northern convoys. Cruiser "Devonshire"


Numbers, percentages and comments ...


Many readers of “VO” in their comments expressed their wishes to get acquainted with the comparative indicators of lend-lease supplies. However, another A.S. Pushkin wrote: “How to compare, yes to see ...”, and he was undoubtedly absolutely right. So let's see and compare: how much of what was produced in the USSR, how much was supplied under Lend-Lease and in what percentage is one with the other.
• Explosives: 558 thousand tons produced; 295,6 thousand tons delivered; 53%.
• Copper: 534 thousand tons produced; 404 KT; 76%.
• Aluminum: 283 thousand tons; 301 KT; 106%.
• Tin: 13 KT; 29 KT; 223%.
• Aviabenzin: 4700 thousand tons; 2586 KT; 55%.
• Car tires: 5953 thousand; 3659 thousand; 62%.
• Railway cars: 1086 pcs .; 11 075 units; 1020%.
• Railway rails: 1 101,1 thousand tons; 622,1tys. tons; 57%.
• Sugar: 995 thousand tons; 658 KT; 66%.
• Canned meat: 432,5 million cans; 2077 million cans; 480%.
• Animal fats: 565 thousand tons; 602 KT; 107%.

And now let's think about what this or that indicator means in practice. Half of the gunpowder and explosives used in the course of hostilities are lend-lease supplies. So every second bullet and every second projectile, a bomb or a torpedo, a hand grenade or a mine produced the effect they had due to ... supplies. Every second shot at the enemy was "foreign" - that's how it is! And how many Germans killed all these bullets shells and bombs? Probably a lot, is not it? But they could not have killed if they were not there and then ... they would have killed our soldiers! By the way, besides the actual explosives, 22 was also supplied to a million shells and 991 a million different shells for shells.


TNT boxes for lend-lease


Copper delivered 76%. But copper is just the very bullets with which the soldiers of the Red Army killed Wehrmacht soldiers. And this is a lot more, without which the war can not go successfully. Aluminum - "metal of war". Over the years of the Great Patriotic War, our aluminum manufacturer UAZ has never fulfilled its supply plan for all 100%. But the demand for aluminum was covered by the supply of Lend-Lease. And it is clear why at first our planes were worse than German ones, and only then the situation began to straighten. By the way, aluminum, delivered under Lend-Lease in the USSR, would be sufficient for the production of all Soviet combat aircraft during two years of war. We'll keep silent about tin in general, but we will pay attention to aviation gasoline - every second flight of our aircraft was carried out on imported fuel. We lacked our own! As well as car tires. You can't get far without a spare tire!

Well, after all, not only gasoline was supplied to us. Equipment was also supplied to establish its own production. And its supply was such that the annual output of the Soviet aviation fuel during the war years increased from 110 000 tons in 1941 to 1 670 000 tons in 1944.

Food supplies were also very important. What is the bitterness of life? Sweet sugar! And - it was delivered 62% of the volume of its own production. Canned and animal fats - the same! "How to burst, and you will sink!" - Our proverb says, and this is very true.

And the number of deliveries included army shoes 15 417 000 pairs, blankets 1 541 590, alcohol 331 066 liters and buttons (and without them, even pants will not be worn!) 257 723 498 pieces!


Spitfire-V Soviet Air Force


Reverse Lend-Lease: Herring and Military Secrets


Some of our “informed” readers are very fond of writing in the comments about the Mongolian horses and camels that came to Berlin, and also about the so-called “reverse Lend-Lease”. But horses cannot be harnessed to Katyusha! For the entire war, the domestic auto industry delivered only 600 (!) Vehicles (mainly ZiS-6) suitable for installing this weapon system on them, while under the Lend-Lease from the USA about 20 thousand cars were delivered, on the chassis of which Katyusha "Just mounted. Not on the backs of the Mongolian camels and not at all on carts (although the project for the production of such an installation, moreover, existed at the Penza Pipe Plant!), Drawn by the Mongol horses! World War II was a war of motors, not horses!


A very good photo in the newspaper Pravda. We are not alone in the fight against Hitler, help will come


As for the "return deliveries", then ... for example, the Rodina magazine, which for some reason was not held in high esteem among the "experts" of the VO, spoke about them, for example. They supplied both wood and alloying additives ... But, most importantly, the convoys that were traveling from Russia back to England along the northern route were brought there. Do you know what? Ice cream and salted fish! Yes, yes, during almost the entire war we fed the British with our fish, because it was difficult for them to catch it in the Atlantic. And some of the fish were made specifically for ... Winston Churchill. He was specially prepared for Solvenian herring, which he used to bite ... Armenian cognac! So here it is entirely possible to say that our Siberian fishermen literally saved the British, if not from starvation, then from sensitive malnutrition. In addition, the USSR’s decision to transfer the technology of gunpowder production for the engines of our Katyusha MLRS to the Americans became especially valuable for the United States, as it does not sound surprising. In this area, as it turned out, the USSR had a significant priority, which allowed, firstly, to establish the release of the necessary gunpowder for “Katyusha” in the United States, and secondly, this solution allowed us to solve the problem of quickly providing this weapons and the American army, which sharply increased its fire superiority over the enemy. Both the Kalliop installations on tanks and the underwing missiles hanging under the Thunderbolts and Lightings would not have appeared if we had not shared our secrets in this area with the Allies. But Stalin even demanded a patent from abroad to protect a double-loading fuse on a mortar, if only this simple device would not fall into the hands of allies, who lost a lot of soldiers from double-loading.

Accordingly, what was not given to us was ... heavy bombers. The reason is clear. Such a weapon, if we had mastered it well, could already pose a danger to the United States and Britain themselves after the war, and the leadership of these countries was well aware of this. The USSR was not allowed to secret development of atomic weapons!


Article from the newspaper "Red Star" from 25.11.1941 year. Then it was a trend to speak well of Lend-Lease tanks


"Matilda" tanker Chibisov


Again, for some reason, the question of quality constantly arises. And he should not get up! People always help ... not the best, leaving the last to themselves. And this is normal! And only when there is a lot of “better”, they share it. That is why the first Hurricane fighters were delivered to us, and not the Spitfire. At the same time, Matilda tanks were not very needed in England itself and that is why they went to the USSR. Well, what Soviet tankers liked and what not, they will tell us the memoirs of the famous tanker V.P. Chibisov "English tanks at Steep Log" (Novosibirsk, 1996).

Having fallen into an English tank as a commander, Chibisov in his memoirs described in detail everything he liked and everything he didn’t like, namely the mediocre attack of these tanks at Krutoy Log, where the Germans burned most of the vehicles of his unit, and he himself was captured by them.

Let's start with the positive. So, he really liked the "infantry-anti-aircraft" machine gun "Bren", which he called the "gentleman machine gun". Nothing more, all the details are perfectly fitted, all angles are rounded, it shoots very accurately. The machine gun "Demon", in his opinion, was just a "workhorse", reliable, but no more. Everything in the tank was surprising: both how quietly its diesels worked, and the fact that the entire tank was covered with a layer of sponge rubber from the inside, so it was possible to ride inside it without a helmet, as it was simply impossible to hit your head with metal. The spring seat was comfortable, on which it was possible to "ride" up and down, it was easy to disassemble and had a sight (unlike ours for the 45-mm gun) and the gun itself, with a smaller caliber, not inferior to ours in armor penetration. But most of all he was struck by the “concern for people”, about their convenience. So, the boxes for shells resembled suitcases and were made of varnished plywood, so they were very light, unlike ours. A small primus was attached to the tank for heating food, which was also very convenient. And he wrote that the British did all this for the war, but unlike us it wasn’t rude, clumsy to just drive and shoot, but with concern for the convenience of those who would ride and shoot. I did not like the "sea tarp" included in the set of tank inventory. Light thin and durable, in Russian frost, it hardened so that it turned into tin. I did not like the Thompson submachine gun that came with the tank. Very "thick bullets" and with 50 m did not penetrate the German helmet, although they left a decent dent in it! A lot of complaints from the tankers caused the chassis. The tank walked well on sand and snow, but on the slopes in ice became virtually uncontrollable. It was necessary to weld “spurs” onto the tracks, but their thickness had to be strictly determined, otherwise they would cling to an armored bulwark. The armor with a thickness of 78 mm was respected, but the political officers told the tankers that we had handed the British the recipe for our armor from the KV tank, but the British were unable to make high-quality armor with a thickness of 75 mm, so they have 78. Another story was the story that on the Czech tanks, which Chibisov had already seen knocked out, there were English machine guns. The caliber is the same as that of the Germans - 7,92-mm. That is, the British imperialists profit from the war, sell machine guns "Demon" to the Germans! Well, about how all this was actually, the VO has already been told.

That is, the significance of Lend-Lease also lies in the fact that our Soviet citizens in large numbers got acquainted with Western technology, flew on their planes, worked with their radars, direction finders, radio stations and other devices, worked on imported modern machines and industrial equipment. And they saw that all this can, it turns out, be done and ... without the "achievements of socialism", or rather, these achievements themselves are still quite far from this technique.


Photo in the Pravda newspaper for No.327 from 25 on November 1941, although the Matilda tank itself is not very visible on it. By the way, about the Matilda tanks, the Penza newspaper Stalin's Banner in 1941 wrote as follows: “... the tanks of Captain Morozov’s unit stood out with their impressive appearance ... These are English tanks with powerful diesel engines that operate clearly and silently ... From the very first days studying English tanks, our soldiers were convinced of their high qualities. The multi-ton tank is very mobile. It has steel armor, simple controls and powerful firearms to combat enemy tanks and infantry ... Of great interest were armored British transporters following the convoy. "They are well armed, their weapons can equally well hit air and ground targets."

Well, the role of the same Matilda tanks in battles near Moscow is indicated by the fact that a photograph of this tank, and also a close-up, again, got on the front page of the newspaper Pravda. Even the Hurricane even hit only the second. Everyone understood what it meant then. It was a kind of language without words. The size of the photograph and the place where it was placed spoke for them!


It is clear that such sources are not for everyone. Heavy, voluminous, takes a lot of time to read ... But ... interesting! Here is “Truth” from 1942 of the year


"The investigation is conducted by experts"


Mentioning about the convoys of the northern route, there is no doubt that there is a “connoisseur” who has read the same Pikul and will report that in the 1942 year the agreed delivery plans were fulfilled only by 55 percent. And in the most difficult time of the preparation of the Kursk operation (in Washington and London they knew about this work), deliveries were interrupted for 9 months and started again only in September 1943. And it is clear that such a long break is not a technical issue, but a political one! That is, these are the "machinations" of the imperialists. So writes, for example, someone O. B. Rakhmanin, and someone could read it, and not only him, by the way, this information is also widely distributed. The main thing is to immediately begin to expose. However, this historian is not too accurate. Deliveries were not stopped for 9 months, but for 6, and only along the Northern route. But there were other routes. Through the Far East and Iran, and here supplies on them at this time significantly increased.


But you open such a binder and find a lot of interesting things in it. For example, this: a toast to the Anglo-Soviet-American Union, although until recently, the newspaper had just as beautifully proclaimed a toast to “brothers in arms” - Germany and the USSR. That’s where it turns out that we got the ability to “change shoes” right on the go - from Pravda. And then J. Orwell will write about this in the novel “1984”: “Oceania has always fought with Eurasia!”


Well, a story will still follow about repayment of debts ...
485 comments
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  1. +7
    1 August 2019 05: 33
    although just recently, the newspaper proclaimed the toast to “brothers in arms” - Germany and the USSR - just as beautifully.

    Will the author lead at least one such "toast"? They stopped scolding Nazi Germany after the pact - yes. But no one kissed her gums either.
    1. +18
      1 August 2019 09: 32
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, to be honest, then “overseas” after 1945 we also stopped “health resort” singing, as in the case of Germany! Victory in the Second World War practically reshuffled the “slippers” of all its participants, both winners and losers .....
      Grandfather told how through his part they were transferred to the Allies of the Studobekers for recycling. Says many soldiers from the peasants roared as their cars were let under pressure!
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. +9
        1 August 2019 14: 01
        Kote Pane Kohanka (Vladislav) Today, 10: 32
        hi Vladisla, can you imagine belay ,,, browsing information on the Internet, to today's topic, I found out that America provided assistance to Russia even before the 1917 revolution. recourse


        I.K. Aivazovsky. Relief ship. 1892 g


        Aivazovsky’s painting “Distribution of Food” by the artist in 1892

        On 12 of March 1892 of the year, the Missouri and Nebraska steamships with a cargo of aid set off for Russia. Edgar himself sailed to Berlin, and traveled to Petersburg by train. At the border he suffered the first shock. “The Russian customs were so strict that I felt like a rat in a trap,” the traveler wrote. Edgar was struck by the Russian capital - its luxury did not match the starving country too much. Moreover, they met him according to local tradition with bread and salt in a silver salt shaker.

        Then the American philanthropist roamed the starving regions. There he saw the real Russia. “In one village, I watched a woman cooking dinner for her family. Some green grass was boiling in the pot, to which the mistress threw a couple of handful flour and added half a glass of milk, ”Edgar wrote later in his journal.
        1. +7
          1 August 2019 14: 09
          Sergey, in spring there was a very good article on this topic at VO! Just according to the paintings of Aivazovsky, but who is the author Alas, I forgot! Old age is not joy, youth is at least not sclerosis !!!
          Good day to all, or evening, Vlad!
          1. +6
            1 August 2019 19: 29
            The author is the same. But everything turned out as usual. Moreover, V.O. upset, sent someone along a known route and he was banned for 5 days
            1. 0
              3 August 2019 08: 34
              This means that every second bullet and every second shell, bomb or torpedo, hand grenade or mine produced their intended action due to ... supplies.

              Every third bullet and bomb, torpedo and grenade. 53% is a third.
              1. +1
                9 August 2019 08: 32
                Photo from the article (Photo in the newspaper "Pravda" No. 327 of November 25, 1941). What can be learned from Pravda today

                138 Separate Tank Battalion
                Tank types: 15 MK-2, 6 MK-3, 10 T-60
                138 th tank battalion began to form on the basis of the Directive Deputy. NPO No. 30ss from 31.10.1941 in Dzerzhinsk.
                On November 13, November 1941 departed for the Western Front.
                On November 18 on November 1941 at the time of loading, by order of the Formation and Manning Division, the 138th Tank Battalion left the submission of the 146th Tank Brigade, which had disappeared as part of two tank and one motorized rifle battalions.
                So in all likelihood the photo was taken before 18.11.41.
                Art. l-Suvorov P.P. - at the time of photographing - Art. l-Suvorov P.P. tank company commander 138
                Guards Lt. Col. Suvorov Petr Pavlovich 1916 year of birth
                in the Red Army since __.__. 1937 years, a member of the CPSU (b)
                Place of birth: Ukrainian SSR, Zaporizhzhya region, Kamensky district, s. Znamenka.



                List of awards:
                22.03.1942Medal of Courage
                07.04.1943 Order of the Red Banner
                07.04.1944 Order of the Patriotic War I degree
                10.09.1944 Order of the Patriotic War I degree
                11.10.1945 Order of the Patriotic War II degree
                He passed the Patriotic War, ended the war in China by defeating the Japanese as the Chief of the Operations Division of the 5 Guards Headquarters. TC 6 Guards TA
        2. +7
          1 August 2019 20: 00
          This is my stuff!
        3. +3
          1 August 2019 20: 16
          A month ago there was an article by Shpakovsky on this topic.
          1. +2
            1 August 2019 20: 33
            ,,, missed see what
            1. +4
              1 August 2019 20: 49
              Sorry! I recall that you really were absent ...
              Find, read, do not regret, good stuff!
      2. +2
        1 August 2019 14: 05
        By the way, yes, many tell stories about the press right in the USSR. I am looking for a photo and can not find request
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +3
            1 August 2019 15: 40
            interesting hi
            I've seen a lot of photos where Aerocobra, for example, takes back that side, wholesome. and heard a lot of stories about the press ... but did not find a single photo
        2. +2
          1 August 2019 20: 12
          Quote: Tlauicol
          By the way, yes, many tell stories about the press right in the USSR. I am looking for a photo and can not find request


          There are no photographs, only stories from memories.
          At the end of the war, the Soviet Union returned a significant part of weapons and military equipment, as was expected under the Lend-Lease agreement, and, in addition, received an invoice in exchange for a round sum of 1300 million dollars.
          The delivery set of American cars often included tools, spare parts, and even a special leather jacket for the driver, like the well-known flying one. So, our drivers, along with the car, were obliged to return them, but they tried to replace them with something similar.
          The soldiers of the Red Army were perplexed when they saw how freshly painted Willis and Studobekkers were brought under pressure right in the port, who were driven to Murmansk by rail or on their own. They were taken back to the United States in the form of scrap metal (this way you can load more).
      3. +1
        1 August 2019 19: 51
        How the little children roared. What went under the press was not payable. Pay --- also roar?
        1. +1
          4 August 2019 12: 07
          Not that "economic thinking". It is impossible for the Russian peasant to understand why an efficient machine is put under pressure. Moreover, he fought on it, repaired it, spent the night in it ... A different attitude to life in general, a different philosophy ...
          1. 0
            4 August 2019 14: 46
            You occupy strangers, and you give yours forever.
      4. 0
        4 August 2019 20: 11
        In addition, the author is not aware that army pants were tied with strips. Nobody sewed buttons there.
    2. +16
      1 August 2019 09: 35
      Quote: Dalny V
      Will the author give at least one such "toast"? ... But no one kissed her gums either.

      of course I have:
      BERLIN
      GERMAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
      Mr. Joachim Von Ribbentrop.

      Thank you, Mr. Minister, for your congratulations. Friendship of the peoples of Germany and the Soviet Union, sealed with bloodhas every reason to be durable and durable.
      I. STALIN. "true" 25,12,1939

      there is worse:
      The ideology of Hitlerism, like any other ideological system, can be recognized or denied; it is a matter of political views. But any person will understand that ideology cannot be destroyed by force, it is impossible to end it with war. Therefore, not only pointless, but also it’s criminal to wage such a war as the war for the destruction of Hitlerism.
      Molotov 31.10.1939

      In how-criminally fight against ... Hitler belay request

      As for the article, it is not bad, but the respected author made quite large mistakes:
      Half of the gunpowder and explosives used in the course of the hostilities are Lend-Lease supplies. This means that every second bullet and every second shell, bomb or torpedo, hand grenade or mine produced their intended action due to ... supplies. Each second the shot at the enemy was "foreign" - here it is!

      No, not like that: if
      Explosives: produced 558 thousand tons; 295,6 thousand tons delivered;

      then just shot 558 + 295 = 853 tons
      295 / 853 * 100 = 34%.
      That is, not every second, but only every THIRD the shot was on foreign gunpowder ..

      The same is for the rest of the materials.

      Which, of course, does not make less the enormous contribution of supplies to the course of the war.

      Article plus! hi
      1. 0
        1 August 2019 09: 45
        Where in the excerpts you cited toast "brothers in arms" ???
        According to Stalin. Absolutely taken out of context, it is not clear why he congratulated Ribbentrop? "friendship of peoples, sealed with blood" - common words that were used at that time to the right and to the left. Quote about nothing. You still write about the "joint parade in Brest".

        According to Molotov.
        ideology cannot be destroyed by force; it cannot be done away with war.
        The call to solve problems peacefully. At any time from any politicians such appeals can be heard in thousands.
        Once again: where is the "brothers in arms" toast? Where "the Soviet people with enthusiasm and unprecedented enthusiasm greet the victory of our German comrades in arms in connection with their entry into enemy Paris!"
        1. +9
          1 August 2019 10: 19
          Dalniy V "Appeal to solve problems peacefully."
          Yes, everything is fine.))) Just some people do not understand what diplomacy is.))) When the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed, the Soviet leadership proclaimed toasts to Hitler and other Nazi leaders. And what?)))) This is also Stalin's fault Should I put it?))) Well, if there is no mind ...))) then you can. I liked the toast "Let's drink to Comrade Kaganovich, People's Commissar of Railways of the USSR!))) And Ribbentrop drank to the health of a Jew!))) That's where the trolling of the highest suit.)))
          1. +1
            1 August 2019 11: 16
            Quote: Nagaibak
            It’s just that some people don’t understand what diplomacy is.

            Yes, yes, it was "diplomacy" that obliged to pronounce THIS at .... session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR)))): and
            criminally wage war like war for the destruction of Hitlerism.
            Molotov 31.10.1939
            Yes ))))))))) lol
            1. +6
              1 August 2019 13: 50
              Olgovich "Yes, it was" diplomacy "that obliged to pronounce THIS at .... session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR))))"
              Yes, yes, the USSR Minister of Foreign Affairs at the session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR should have been called for the destruction of Hitlerism. fool lol
              1. 0
                2 August 2019 08: 25
                Quote: Nagaibak
                Yes, yes, the USSR Minister of Foreign Affairs at the session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR should have been called for the destruction of Hitlerism.

                Where about it? fool

                And, in your opinion, his duty was declaration of war against Nazism-CRIME, Yes? fool lol
                1. -2
                  2 August 2019 11: 01
                  Olgovich "And, in your opinion, his duty was to declare war against Nazism, a CRIME, right?"
                  As always, you contradict yourself. laughing You carry nonsense as usual. lol Everyone understood except you.))) Do you have problems with the perception of information?)))) So go relax in the south, heal and everything will pass. Until. wink
                  1. -2
                    2 August 2019 12: 27
                    Quote: Nagaibak
                    As always, you contradict yourself. You carry nonsense as usual.

                    Nonsense is your everything. To declare CRIMINAL war against Hitler, no one forced Molotov, but he did it
                    Quote: Nagaibak
                    You have problems with the perception of information?)))) So go relax in the south, heal and everything will pass. Until

                    Do you have problems with the perception of information?)))) Do not go anywhere: nothing will help you already request Yes
        2. +5
          1 August 2019 11: 08
          Quote: Dalny V
          Where in the excerpts you cited toast "brothers in arms" ???

          belay AGAIN:
          The friendship of the peoples of Germany and the Soviet Union, sealed with blood, has every reason to be long and lasting.
          I. STALIN. "true" 25,12,1939

          Is that a curse of friendship? Not a toast? lol
          Quote: Dalny V
          According to Stalin. Absolutely taken out of context, it is unclear why he congratulated Ribbentrop?

          Find any context that suits you.
          This phrase is completely independent
          Quote: Dalny V
          A call to solve problems in peaceful way. At any time from any politicians such appeals can be heard in thousands.

          Yes?
          Again:it’s criminal to wage such a war as the war for the destruction of Hitlerism.
          To fight with Hitler, according to Molotov, is a crime, not to fight with him, in your opinion ..... the struggle for peace. belay
          Quote: Dalny V
          Where "the Soviet people with enthusiasm and unprecedented enthusiasm greet the victory of our German comrades in arms in connection with their entry into enemy Paris!"

          Such things you might know:

          14 June 1940 the Nazis occupied Paris. Three days later, on June 17 of 1940, the Kremlin congratulated them on an exemplary victory, as Ambassador Schulenburg informed his leadership in a telegram.

          urgent telegram No. 1167 of June 17, 1940, which was published in the 2nd volume of the book "USSR - GERMANY 1939-1941. Documents and materials on Soviet-German relations from September 1939 to July 1941" This document is designated - No. 35 - a telegram from the German Ambassador to the USSR Schulenburg to the German Foreign Ministry:

          "Telegram
          Moscow, 18 June 1940 - 1.40
          Received June 18 1940 - 4.00

          1167 No. of 17 June
          Very urgent!

          Molotov invited me to his office tonight and expressed to me the warmest congratulations of the Soviet government by case brilliant success of the German armed forces.

          Ahhh, Molotov is not a people, right? lol
          1. +2
            1 August 2019 11: 56
            While one of your enemies beats another enemy, the position of the USSR is absolutely correct.
            1. +5
              1 August 2019 12: 25
              Quote: apro
              While one of your enemies beats another enemy, the position of the USSR is absolutely correct.

              the enemy beats the ALLY, who could remain the MAIN enemy of the enemy: see PMV.

              But someone went his own way. And he received a disaster that was not in history.
              1. +6
                1 August 2019 12: 39
                And when were the French allies of the USSR? Probably took shape in Munich?
                Dear how the Great Patriotic War ended and where? And how did the WWII end for Russia?
                1. -1
                  1 August 2019 19: 04
                  apro "Dear than the Great Patriotic War ended and where?"
                  Yes, everything is running there.)))
                2. -1
                  2 August 2019 08: 35
                  Quote: apro
                  And when were the French allies of the USSR? Probably took shape in Munich?

                  PMV, WWII. In Moscow, "Friendship agreement and the border between the USSR and Germany. "The French did not think of such a thing.
                  Quote: apro
                  important than the Great Patriotic War ended and where?

                  PRICE - do you remember?
                  Quote: apro
                  How did PMV end for Russia?

                  For Russia - a victory (see Versailles), for the RSFSR - a defeat (see Brest)
                  1. +1
                    2 August 2019 15: 47
                    To begin with, I did not participate in the USSR PMV. In the USSR WWII I entered into an alliance agreement with deGole. That is, with the not-so-legitimate government of France ..
                    The Moscow agreement of the year 1939 is excellent. The borders on it satisfied the Soviet government the most important thing.
                    Victory price is not satisfied? Well, go look for cheaper .....
                    Is it like a victory? And the king of the empire is aware that he is a winner?
                    The RSFSR inherited the war. And the Republic of Soviets was able to resolve it.
                    1. -1
                      2 August 2019 16: 14
                      Quote: apro
                      For starters. In the USSR PMV did not participate

                      Those. Russia ... didn’t exist? belay
                      The RSFSR participated (shamefully, moreover). This is not the USSR? Where did he ... come from, if not from the RSFSR?
                      Quote: apro
                      during the WWII the USSR entered into an alliance agreement with deGole. i.e. with the not-so-legitimate government of France ..

                      Remember: the USSR RECOGNIZED the puppet government of Vichy and even set the ambassador. Those. You recognize him, but De Gaulle doesn’t ?! But France is an ally recognized by all but you.
                      Quote: apro
                      1939 Moscow contract is excellent. Borders on it satisfied the Soviet government is the most important thing.

                      ABOUT FRIENDSHIP A treaty with the Nazis. Are you satisfied? Sorry...
                      Quote: apro
                      Victory price does not suit ?.

                      Does it suit you? What a wildness ....
                      Quote: apro
                      Well, go look for cheaper.

                      Blasphemy, fi ....
                      Quote: apro
                      Is it like a victory? And the king of the empire is aware that he is a winner?

                      Russia-in the know (except for the traitors-Bolsheviks)
                      Quote: apro
                      The RSFSR inherited the war. And the Republic of Soviets was able to resolve it.


                      If you don't know how, don't take it! "You can't, don't torture, yes!"
                      "Regulators" gave .... to the invaders a THIRD country-bravo! good
                      Entente returned it - do not forget!
              2. +3
                1 August 2019 14: 16
                Quote: Olgovich
                the enemy beats the ALLY, who could remain the MAIN enemy of the enemy: see PMV.

                The enemy beat a POSSIBLE ally, who did not want to become REAL. Despite repeated offers. Indeed, he wanted to go his own way. The result is that car ...
                1. +1
                  2 August 2019 08: 42
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  The enemy beat a POSSIBLE ally, who did not want to become REAL. Despite repeated offers.

                  Not enough brains to agree, and not the French. You ask yourself why Europe was afraid of the USSR almost more than Hitler: then ISIS (Comintern), where was it, remember?
                  Mr. NOBODY didn’t interfere in the back with Hitler, the global outcast and aggressor, in May 1940: to repeat the WWII. And it was not necessary to the Fpanii, but the USSR.

                  But they preferred to joyfully rub their hands ....

                  Disaster result 41-42gg
                  1. -1
                    4 August 2019 10: 36
                    [quote = Olgovich] Not enough brains to agree, and not the French. [/ quot
                    That's right. Even mostly not to the French. Namely: the British and Poles.
                    [quote = Olgovich] why Europe was afraid of the USSR almost more than Hitler [/ quote]
                    In any case, no more than during the time of Catherine II or Nicholas I.

                    [quote = Olgovich] Hit in the back of world outcast and aggressor Hitler in May 1940 Mr. NOBODY did not interfere [/ quote]
                    Much got in the way. But no one and nothing prevented from stabbing in the back on 03.09.1939. But they preferred the principle: "We'll be patient, maybe it will be enough." Wait a bit ... negative
                    1. 0
                      4 August 2019 11: 23
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      That's right. Even mostly not to the French. Namely: the British and Poles.

                      And also to cyclists.
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      In any case, no more than during the time of Catherine II or Nicholas I.

                      belay ISIS of the 30-s (Comintern), the wildest events of the 30-s (millions of links, hundreds of thousands of executions per year, etc.) were only in the USSR. This causes absolute fear, what trust is there .....
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Much interfered.

                      Like a dancer.
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      But nobody and nothing prevented him from striking in the back of 03.09.1939.

                      The people interfered, did not want to fight categorically
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      But they preferred the principle: "Let's be patient, maybe it will be enough." Wait a bit ..

                      I agree: we looked from the side at the accursed imperialists flattering each other, rubbed their hands with pleasure and waited -unprecedented in the history of the world disaster 41-42gg
                      1. 0
                        4 August 2019 11: 37
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ISIS of the 30's (Comintern), the wildest events of the 30's

                        And nobody canceled the will of Peter I. At least "de yure". laughing However, for example, Davis and Feuchwanger ...

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The people interfered

                        Well, yes, and before that, the people ordered to betray Czechoslovakia in Munich, and before that - to refuse the Soviet proposals for military alliances (this could not have reached the war). However, in the light of previously unprecedented levels of collaboration, it seems to be true.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        disaster 41-42gg

                        39-44. Confused a little because of ignorance. It happens.
                      2. +2
                        4 August 2019 11: 52
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And no one canceled the will of Peter I. .

                        and the wills of the pharaohs, too
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Fayscoring one goal.anger.

                        hto it?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Well, yes, and before that, the people ordered betray Czechoslovakia in Munich

                        Czechoslovakia is that part of France, England? Their peoples were spit deep on her.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        and before that - refuse the Soviet proposals for military alliances (this could not have reached the war).

                        our fairy tale is good .... lol REPEAT: ISIS 30's (Comintern), the wildest events of 30's (millions of links, hundreds of thousands of executions per year, etc.) cause absolute fear, what kind of trust is there ..... In your opinion, SUCH-causes .... trust, right? belay
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        39-44. Confused a little because of ignorance. It happens.

                        do you know how to read? It is written about
                        disaster unprecedented in the history of the world 41-42
                        So SUCH disasters, defeats, losses that were in 41-42 were not in the history of wars, peace, humanity, NEVER.
                      3. +1
                        4 August 2019 12: 10
                        [quote = Olgovich] Czechoslovakia what-part of France, England? [/ quote]
                        Czechoslovakia is an ally of France and England. To which they promised assistance under the AGREEMENTS.
                        [quote = Olgovich] hto this? [/ quote]
                        Feuchtwanger. Many knew him there

                        [quote = Olgovich] our fairy tale is good .... REPEAT: ISIS 30's [/ quote]
                        It is clear that YOUR fairy tale is good.

                        [quote = Olgovich] It is written about [quote] an unprecedented catastrophe in the history of the world 41-42 [[/ quote]
                        Do you know how to read? And do you know the story at all? What disaster happened, for example, in France in 1941-42?
                      4. +2
                        4 August 2019 12: 32
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Czechoslovakia is an ally of France and England. To which they promised assistance under the AGREEMENTS.

                        spit on the people of France and England on it.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Feuchtwanger

                        FeikhтVanger and I know Yes
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It is clear that YOUR fairy tale is good.

                        true a fairy tale: they were afraid of us ......
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Do you know how to read? And do you know the story at all? What disaster happened, for example, in France in 1941-42?

                        Do you know how to read? And do you know the story at all? WHERE THE DISASTER HAPPENED in 41-42 gg ?! What, in, "France"? am
                        I wrote about 41-42 years
                      5. 0
                        4 August 2019 12: 50
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        spit on the people of France and England on it.

                        They do not care, but are we to blame? I do not see the logic.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        true story: they were afraid of us ....

                        They were afraid, they were afraid. From the 16 century they are afraid, if not earlier.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        What, in, "France"?

                        That one. One and only. About which we are talking. I realized that you wrote about the 41-42., Therefore, I ask-what happened to her during these years and how is this connected with her frivolous behavior before the war?
                        So see?
                      6. +2
                        4 August 2019 14: 06
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        They do not care, and we to blame? I do not see the logic.

                        We about brains they said. About their absence. And it’s not fault, it is BYAD ....
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        They were afraid, they were afraid. From the 16 century they are afraid, if not earlier.

                        Yes, no: from the 16 century (and earlier and later) Russia has had a LOT of Alliance Agreements, for example, from the latter about ANTANT.

                        Her last was not in general (except ... with the occupier and the aggressor- "About friendship "from 1939). What is better called: renegade, outcast and pr-choose yourself
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That one. One and only. About which we we are talking. I realized that you wrote about 41-42, therefore I ask what her What happened during these years and how is this connected with her frivolous behavior before the war?

                        You-I answered, forgot already? And I didn’t talk about the strike of France, but about a possible strike the USSR.
                        And the disaster in 41-42 was only in one place
                      7. 0
                        4 August 2019 15: 44
                        Actually, the USSR had an agreement with France:
                        http://doc.histrf.ru/20/sovetsko-frantsuzskiy-dogovor-o-vzaimnoy-pomoshchi/
                        but it happened:
                        About the false report of the Havas agency
                      8. -1
                        4 August 2019 17: 06
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        We talked about brains. About their absence. And it’s not fault, it is BYAD ....

                        The fact that we had brains, but in YAVROPE was their absence - for us it turned out to be a disaster, right. But our fault is zero.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Russia had a LOT of Alliance Treaties

                        Which with depressing constancy were violated behind the back of Russia.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there were none at all (except ... with the occupier and aggressor-

                        There were. And a lot. As well as with the occupier and aggressor, agreements were not only with us (including secret ones - and still not declassified! smile ) You are simply not in the subject.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I did not speak about the strike of France, but about the possible strike of the USSR.

                        And I talked about expanding the topic of a much more possible strike by France.
                      9. +2
                        4 August 2019 18: 57
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        The fact that we had brains, but in YAVROPE was their absence - for us it turned out to be a disaster, right. Nour fault is zero.

                        No fault, of course: what a fault, when even the brains are zero.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Which with depressing constancy were violated behind the back of Russia.

                        Violated, respected, everything, like people
                        But the last one has zero ANY
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And I talked about expanding the topic of a much more possible strike by France.

                        France Fought against Hitler with 3,03, 39, USSR, no: neither then nor in May 40
                      10. 0
                        5 August 2019 07: 05
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        No fault, of course: what a fault, when even the brains are zero

                        So I’m talking about the same thing - our brains couldn’t rearrange them to someone else’s empty place. you did the right thing that you agreed with me.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Violated, respected, everything, like people
                        But the last one has zero ANY

                        If IT is zero, then the predecessor has a negative value. fellow
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        France Fought against Hitler with 3,03, 39,

                        I didn’t fight. Was at war. Humbly waiting for what will happen next. AND WAITED.
          2. +5
            1 August 2019 14: 25
            Quote: Olgovich
            ONCE AGAIN: it is criminal to wage such a war as the war for the annihilation of Hitlerism.
            To fight with Hitler, according to Molotov, is a crime, not to fight with him, in your opinion ..... the struggle for peace.

            By the time these utterances were pronounced, there was still no Auschwitz and 26 million ruined lives of Soviet citizens. Therefore, Hitlerism has not yet shown its essence in full "growth". It’s funny for you today, who know what happened, to read it. But those who expressed their opposition to the destruction of Hitlerism could not fully know what would happen and how it would be. At the same time, we must not forget that the Anglo-French coalition itself did everything to ensure that the occupation of Paris by the Germans took place. So, I think that the comment that the tone of the speeches of the Soviet leadership in those years was dictated by political necessity. International politics of the 000s of the 000th century was so turbulent that only after studying the entire volume of relations between the leading countries of Europe in those years, one can somehow try to assess the benefits of the work of the Soviet leadership. It should not be lost sight of the fact that practical matters often did not coincide at all with public statements. Today, in fact, this is also not uncommon.
            1. +1
              2 August 2019 08: 52
              Quote: Den717
              By the time these statements were made, Auschwitz and 26 000 000 had not destroyed the lives of Soviet citizens.

              15 September 1935 years - The adoption of anti-Jewish Nuremberg laws.
              Guernica, military support for the fascists of Spain, Italy.
              9 November 1938 years - Kristallnacht, mass anti-Jewish pogroms throughout Germany.
              1 September 1939 years - The beginning of World War II - an attack on Poland.
              War crimes in polka territory
              Isn't that enough ?!
              Quote: Den717
              But those who expressed rejection of the destruction of Hitlerism, ne could fully know what will be and how it will be.

              Well, talk nonsense request : Hitlerism fiercely condemned in the USSR until August 1939
              Quote: Den717
              One should not lose sight of the fact that practical matters often did not at all coincide with public statements.

              From the first day of October 25 on October 17, the Bolsheviks fiercely denied this.
              1. +2
                2 August 2019 09: 21
                Quote: Olgovich
                From the first day of October 25 on October 17, the Bolsheviks fiercely denied this.

                Stalin in 1917 is not at all the same as in 1939. Read something about the international politics of the 30s. It was a very turbulent time then, and there were completely ambiguous statements dictated by national interests. And the acceptable ways of solving problems in those days were somewhat different from what we see today. Then all countries were not at all "vegetarian", and the USSR corresponded to that time. Proceeding from the national interests, the USSR "made friends" with some against others. And this was the accepted norm in international practice. Then it was important not only what they said, but also what they were silent about.
              2. -1
                2 August 2019 10: 45
                Quote: Olgovich
                Isn't that enough ?!

                This was not enough for England and France, taking into account the "strange war" - they were satisfied with everything in Hitler until the summer of 1940. You probably haven't heard about the Munich Agreement, since you decided to hang all the dogs in the USSR. Well, your "strategic" plan to stab Hitler in the back in 1940 is simply laughable - you either have no idea of ​​the then state of the Red Army and the results of the Finnish War, or you think that Germany would have done it right away and surrendered to the "allies". It looks like you are still that "strategist" ....
                1. -1
                  2 August 2019 16: 24
                  Quote: ccsr
                  This was not enough for England and France, taking into account the "strange war" - they were satisfied with everything in Hitler until the summer of 1940.

                  War at sea, in the air, on land, also without peace
                  Quote: ccsr
                  You probably haven’t heard about the Munich agreement, since decided on the USSR allx dogs hang

                  Bullshit, where is it with me?
                  Quote: ccsr
                  Well, your "strategic" plan to stab Hitler in the back in 1940 is simply laughable - you either have no idea of ​​the then state of the Red Army and the results of the Finnish War, or you think that Germany would have done it right away and surrendered to the "allies".

                  This is not my plan, this is the experience of the HISTORY, on which a great one was laid, yes.
                  The state-it was all-state. By the way, Stalin was going to fight with Hitler even for Czechoslovakia. Forgot?
                  Quote: ccsr
                  It looks like you are still that "strategist" ....

                  You are not alike, yes. No way .... request
                  1. 0
                    2 August 2019 20: 38
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    This is not my plan, this is the experience of the HISTORY, on which a great one was laid, yes.

                    Can you tell us more about this "experience", especially taking into account the state of the USSR after the First World War and the Civil War?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    By the way, Stalin was going to fight with Hitler even for Czechoslovakia. Forgot?

                    He suggested that the Allies do this together, and not fight, but send troops through the territory of Poland - we did not have a common border with Czechoslovakia. How do you imagine this help - first to start a war with Poland, which had an agreement with Germany in order to break through to the border with Czechoslovakia? Well, well, you are clearly an alternative story lover ...
                    1. +2
                      3 August 2019 06: 36
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Can you tell us more about this "experience", especially taking into account the state of the USSR after the First World War and the Civil War?

                      The history of the PMV is to help you.
                      Quote: ccsr
                      He suggested that the Allies do this together, and not fight, but send troops through the territory of Poland - we did not have a common border with Czechoslovakia.

                      The introduction of troops, not ..... suggested the possibility of war? What nonsense is this?
                      Quote: ccsr
                      How do you imagine this help - first to start a war with Poland, which had an agreement with Germany in order to break through to the border with Czechoslovakia?

                      Are you talking to yourself? WHERE do I have about .. "war with Poland"?
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Well, well, you are clearly an alternative story lover ...

                      lol
                      1. -1
                        3 August 2019 09: 14
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The history of the PMV is to help you.

                        Excuse does not work - you would have referred to world history. Where are the specifics, at least one example.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The introduction of troops, not ..... suggested the possibility of war? What nonsense is this?

                        Naturally - if the Red Army entered Czechoslovakia before 1938 by agreement with it, France and the UK, then Hitler would hardly have decided to annex the Sudetenland at all.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Are you talking to yourself? WHERE do I have about .. "war with Poland"?

                        But how do our troops get into Czechoslovakia if the Poles did not give permission to pass?
                      2. +1
                        4 August 2019 09: 55
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Excuse does not work - you would have referred to world history. Where are the specifics, at least one example.

                        PMV-not specifics ?! WHAT is it? The same participants, the same, practically, situation. Only a move or two: the losses of the USSR in WWII are not 10% of the world’s losses, like Russia in WWII, but 52% (without China)
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Naturally - if The Red Army entered Czechoslovakia before the 1938 year by agreement with it, France and the UK, then Hitler was unlikely to even decide on the annexation of the Sudetenland.

                        "Would", "if" is UNNatural for the story. Maybe yes, maybe not.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        But how do our troops get into Czechoslovakia if the Poles did not give permission to pass?

                        And in Africa, how to get there?
                        We said: about readiness-not preparedness to fight in principle. And Stalin was READY to fight back in the crisis with Czechoslovakia. Non-ready-do not offer to send troops.
                      3. -1
                        4 August 2019 16: 31
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        PMV-not specifics ?! WHAT is it? The same participants, the same, practically, situation.

                        There is no specifics - war and peacetime are two completely different situations. And the main difference is that Hitler could be discouraged from tearing off the Sudetenland if the Red Army troops were there, which means that the beginning of the Second World War would at least happen later.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "Would", "if" is UNNatural for the story. Maybe yes, maybe not.

                        The policy of the West was unnatural, which set Hitler against Russia, apparently not realizing that it would come back to haunt them.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And in Africa, how to get there?

                        By sea, unlike Czechoslovakia.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        We said: about readiness, not preparedness to fight in principle.

                        What makes you think that Hitler was ready to unleash the Second World War in 1938?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And Stalin was READY to fight back in the crisis with Czechoslovakia.

                        This is not proved by anything, because Germany in the 1938 year was not at all what it became after the defeat of many armies of Europe. Stalin was well aware that Hitler was then weak to start a European war, and therefore proactive measures could well prevent the Second World War.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Non-ready-do not offer to send troops.

                        So not all armed forces would be introduced, but only a part, as it was later, for example, in the Baltic states and in Western Ukraine.
                      4. +1
                        4 August 2019 19: 09
                        Quote: ccsr
                        There is no specifics - war and peacetime are two completely different situations

                        Yes, yes, but before the WWII, there was no peace time.
                        One-on-one situation: Germany is an aggressor between opponents from the West and the East.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Hitler could be discouraged from tearing off the Sudetenland if there were troops of the Red Army

                        Again "if" - guessing .....
                        Quote: ccsr
                        By sea, unlike Czechoslovakia.

                        From the air too, yes ...
                        Quote: ccsr
                        What makes you think that Hitler was ready to unleash the Second World War in 1938?

                        belay
                        Quote: ccsr
                        This is not proved by anything, because Germany in the 1938 year was not at all what it became after the defeat of many armies of Europe.

                        Yeah, the weakest army defeated the strong and became ... strong lol
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Stalin is fine knew that Hitler was then weak to start a European war, and therefore proactive measures incould completely prevent second world war.

                        baaaalsh connoisseur was, yes: 22 June 41-a wonderful example of foresight.

                        fortunetelling is not interesting: they could, they could not ...
                        Quote: ccsr
                        So not all armed forces would be introduced, but only a part, as it was later, for example, in the Baltic states and in Western Ukraine.

                        And?
                      5. -1
                        4 August 2019 21: 17
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        One-on-one situation: Germany is an aggressor between opponents from the West and the East.

                        This is not true - the situation has radically changed, because the German monarchy was the enemy of the Russian Empire, but Europe, which was antagonistic in its views, opposed the USSR, the state of workers. So there is no need to say that we had no ideological contradictions with Europe, which led to the attack on the USSR.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        From the air too, yes ...

                        In 1938 year? You are a dashing storyteller ...
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yeah, the weakest army defeated the strong and became ... strong

                        She gained combat experience and the economic potential of the vanquished - you apparently intentionally do not want to take this into account.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        baaaalsh connoisseur was, yes: 22 June 41-a wonderful example of foresight.

                        And what are you dragged to? Looking to convince your fantasies?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And?

                        And if the West were smarter, it is quite possible that the Second World War would not have taken place at all, and they would have tried to destroy the USSR by eroding the foundations of Soviet society, as it was in the 1991 year.
                      6. +1
                        5 August 2019 06: 55
                        Quote: ccsr
                        This is not true - the situation has radically changed, because the German monarchy was the enemy of the Russian Empire, but Europe, which was antagonistic in its views, opposed the USSR, the state of workers.

                        Nothing has changed, from the West the Anglo-French, from the East-USSR (Russia). It is a fact.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        USSR, workers' states advocated antagonistic views of Europe

                        belay But what about the "proletarians of all countries, unite?" The class-conscious German proletarians came and with all their proletarian strength and hatred destroyed ... the state workers... request
                        Quote: ccsr
                        She gained combat experience and the economic potential of the vanquished - you apparently intentionally do not want to take this into account.

                        I didn’t understand: HOW the weakest got the potency of .... the strongest? belay
                        Quote: ccsr
                        And what are you dragged to? Looking to convince your fantasies?

                        Do you remember yourself? Who wrote about the "expert"?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        And if the West were smarter, it is quite possible that the Second World War would not have taken place at all, and they would have tried to destroy the USSR by eroding the foundations of Soviet society, as it was in the 1991 year.

                        what does this sentence have to do with your phrase:
                        Quote: ccsr
                        So not all armed forces would be introduced, but only a part, as it was later, for example, in the Baltic states and in Western Ukraine.
                        ? belay
                      7. -1
                        5 August 2019 08: 18
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Nothing has changed, from the West the Anglo-French, from the East-USSR (Russia). It is a fact.

                        Geography has not changed, who would argue. The idea has changed - to destroy the Russians as a nation, and not get off with the usual robbery.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        But what about "proletarians of all countries, unite?"

                        But in no way - do not confuse the slogans of Marxism with reality, especially since the Finnish proletariat willingly fought for their interests in the 1939 year, forgetting about solidarity.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I didn’t understand: HOW the weakest got the potency of .... the strongest?

                        Silently - instead of exercises, they trained in a combat situation, and this played the greatest role in their preparation for war. We had no such experience.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        what does this sentence have to do with your phrase:

                        The most direct thing is the presence of our troops in Czechoslovakia in 1938, if that were to happen, would completely change the course of the entire history of the twentieth century. By the way, while our troops were in Germany, the world was completely different - this example is proof that the presence of troops changes all politics.
                      8. +1
                        5 August 2019 09: 17
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Geography has not changed, who would argue. The idea has changed - to destroy the Russians as a nation, and not get off with the usual robbery.

                        1. The ideas of these wars were not much different.
                        2. Ideas do not affect geography: from the West, Anglo-French, from the East-USSR (Russia)
                        Quote: ccsr
                        But no way - do not confuse the slogans Marxism with reality,.

                        I agree, nothing in common between Marxism and reality, no. therefore, there is nothing to mention about the "state of workers", which came to beat ... workers
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Silently - instead teachings they trained in combat .

                        belay I repeat the question:: HOW the weakest-got potentials .... the strongest?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        The most direct

                        no:
                        Quote: ccsr
                        And if the West were smarter, it is quite possible that the Second World War would not have taken place at all, and they would have tried to destroy the USSR by eroding the foundations of Soviet society, as it was in the 1991 year.

                        what does this sentence have to do with your phrase:
                        Quote: ccsr
                        So not all armed forces would be introduced, but only a part, as it was later, for example, in the Baltic states and in Western Ukraine.

                        .
                        .
                        Quote: ccsr
                        the presence of our troops in Czechoslovakia in 1938, if this happened would completely change the course of the entire history of the twentieth century.

                        fortunetelling again ....
                        but in fact: the presence of the Red Army in the Baltic states, Bessarabia, Z. Ukraine, Hanko-NIKAK did not change the course of the entire history of the twentieth century
                        Quote: ccsr
                        By the way, while our troops were in Germany, the world was completely different - this example is proof that the presence of troops changes all politics.

                        a strong country is worth troops, a weak one is not worth
                      9. 0
                        5 August 2019 11: 59
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        2. Ideas do not affect geography: from the West, Anglo-French, from the East-USSR

                        But doesn’t it bother you that France lost more than two times as many Frenchmen in Hitler’s troops as they died in all the years in the ranks of the resistance? So on which side did the French fight? Or do you seriously believe that de Gaulle somehow influenced the defeat of Germany?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        1. The ideas of these wars were not much different.

                        Fundamentally different - the monarchies did not dream of destroying each other.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I agree, Marxism and reality have nothing in common.

                        And the construction of the USSR is also a myth, not reality? Oh well...
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I repeat the question:: HOW the weakest-got potentials .... the strongest?

                        Silently - the cowardly French did not want to fight as our people did in the same Brest Fortress. So they resignedly surrendered their potential to the Germans - is it really so hard to understand?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        but in fact: the presence of the Red Army in the Baltic states, Bessarabia,

                        Just saved the citizens of these areas from the capture by the Germans and from the creation of Jewish ghettos there - at least they were not occupied in 1939-1940.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        a strong country is worth troops, a weak one is not worth

                        Yes, our country after the Tatar-Mongol yoke never seemed to be weak, well, if it was, then not for long. So now, even without the introduction of troops, we are resolving strategic security issues, which we could not afford in 1941.
              3. 0
                11 August 2019 03: 31
                Quote: Olgovich
                9 November 1938 years - Kristallnacht, mass anti-Jewish pogroms throughout Germany.

                In the United States, all Indians were deported to the reservation. In cruelty, this event is larger than the Nuremberg laws and Kristallnacht. But this is not a reason to consider the United States outside international norms.
            2. -1
              10 May 2021 23: 42
              I agree with you that there was a need to fuck the brains of the working people in order to tear apart the USSR in 70 years and create excellent living conditions for themselves. The CPSU, such a CPSU!
          3. +2
            2 August 2019 11: 54
            On newsreels it is perceived cooler.
            Speech by Molotov 1.11.1939
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xNIFvUhKw
      2. +1
        1 August 2019 10: 11
        And the number of deliveries included ... alcohol 331 066 liters ...

        6 wagons of alcohol ... Essentially.
        That is, the significance of Lend-Lease also lies in the fact that our Soviet citizens in large numbers got acquainted with Western technology, flew their planes, worked with their radars, direction finders, radio stations and other devices, worked on imported modern machines and industrial equipment. And they saw that all this can, it turns out, be done and ... without the "achievements of socialism" ...

        So here it is. And under the tsar-priest, was Russia an industrialized power? Thousands of aircraft produced, cars? Was your machine tool industry, developed heavy industry?
        And the Lend-Lease, probably, was free, just a gift ... Not a single capitalist will give a penny broken if he does not see his own benefit.
        1. +1
          1 August 2019 16: 00
          The benefit is the most real: if RI leaves the war, for example in 1915, Austria-Venoria will deal entirely with Italy, and the Germans would strike at France with all their might and the WWII would end with a different result
          1. +2
            1 August 2019 18: 52
            Quote: vladcub
            The most real benefit: if RI leaves the war

            The fact of the matter is that the so-called allies used Russia as a tool to achieve their goals. And if in WWI they largely succeeded, then WWII did not end the way they wanted, so this war continued with other methods. And it continues now. Churchill, while still being a "minister of the sea", said that Russia should be divided among the world powers (and Margaret Thatcher repeated this idea many years later). At the beginning of the war of Germany against the USSR, Truman, then vice-president, declared: "If the Germans win, it is worth helping the Russians, if the Russians take the upper hand, we need to help the Germans - and let them kill each other as much as possible!" ...
            Churchill in 1942 at a meeting of the military cabinet formulated his task: "to detain the Russian barbarians as far as possible in the east so that they do not threaten a free Europe." Over the years of the war, the Americans concentrated the gold reserves of many countries, earned a lot of money from the sale of weapons, and in fact due to this they finally got out of the crisis. At the same time, the USSR did not receive any key technologies for the supply of Lend-Lease.
            The USSR paid for land lease with gold and resources. This help was not free, as many try to present. Would you manage without these supplies? You can argue for as long as you want. History has no subjunctive mood.
            1. +2
              1 August 2019 20: 19
              Quote: Andrey NM
              Would you manage without these supplies? You can argue for as long as you want. History has no subjunctive mood.


              With the help of Lend-Lease, the administration of President F. Roosevelt solved a number of urgent foreign policy, economic and domestic problems.
              First of all, this scheme made it possible to create new jobs in the United States itself, which had not yet fully overcome the dire economic crisis of the 1929-1933 years, and loaded American enterprises and concerns with work. In 1940, there were 8 million unemployed in America.
              Secondly, Lend-Lease allowed the US government to exert certain pressure on recipient countries and political dependence on Lend-Lease assistance.
              Thirdly, sending his allies only weapons, materials and raw materials, but not manpower, President F. Roosevelt kept his campaign promise: “Our guys will never participate in other people's wars».
              The initial Lend-Lease delivery date was set until June 1943 of the year, with further annual extension as necessary.

              Since November 1942, i.e. in the midst of the battle for the Caucasus and Stalingrad and the conduct of Operation Mars on the Rzhev salient, the supply of American arms, strangely enough, almost completely stopped.
              During the 3,5 of the month 1942-1943, when the Battle of Stalingrad, which was decisive throughout the Second World War, was fought, less than 40 ships with Lend-Lease cargo arrived in Murmansk and Arkhangelsk.
              In connection with this fact, many, including the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Red Army of the USSR - I.V. Stalin had a legitimate suspicion that all this time in London and Washington they had simply been waiting, in whose favor the battle at Stalingrad would end.

              Meanwhile, since March 1942, i.e. just six months after the evacuation of more than 10 thousand industrial enterprises from the European part of the USSR, the growth of military production began, which by the end of this year exceeded the pre-war figures by five times (!). Moreover, it should be noted that 86% of the total labor force in the production was made up of old people, people with disabilities, women and children. It was they who in 1942-1945 years gave the Soviet army 103 thousand tanks and self-propelled guns, more than 126 thousand planes, more than 800 thousand artillery pieces and mortars, etc.
              1. 0
                2 August 2019 04: 31
                Quote: Minato2020
                In 1940, there were 8 million unemployed in America.

                And in 1939, there were 17 millions of them.
                It is very difficult for an incomplete 20 years from a backward agrarian country to make an industrial powerful power. No one needs a competitor. If there had been no crisis in the USA, it is not a fact that in the USSR they would have given the opportunity to build automobile plants, delivered equipment, etc.
            2. 0
              10 May 2021 23: 45
              Smart rulers think smartly and primarily for the people of their country, unlike ours.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. -1
          6 August 2021 13: 32
          Do you have reason to think that without the Bolsheviks, having remained with the "tsar-father", the country would not have become an industrialized power in the 20s and 30s?
          Yes, even before the revolution ... At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the battleship was an indicator of a great power. Remind you how many battleships were built by Russia and how many - by the USSR?

          Well, yes, Lend-Lease was really free. Surprisingly, at the end of the second decade of the XXI century, this is still startling news for you. Only property that had survived the battles and was not returned to its owner after the war, that is, in the United States, was subject to payment. But even for him, the USSR paid only about 1% of the cost - and then pulled with it until the end of the century. smile

          I agree about the benefits - only a capitalist, unlike you, is able to see not only immediate benefits, but also more distant ones. The benefit of the United States in WWII was to keep Europe as a market for its goods - and for this benefit America helped the Soviet Union for free. No matter how unpleasant this fact may be to you smile
      3. BAI
        +10
        1 August 2019 13: 12
        it’s criminal to wage such a war as the war for the destruction of Hitlerism.

        And if you read the whole speech, and not pull out the phrases ?:
        1.
        First, we must point out the changes that have occurred in relations between the Soviet Union and Germany. Since the conclusion of the Soviet-German non-aggression treaty on 23 in August, the abnormal relations that existed for several years between the Soviet Union and Germany were put to an end. The hostility, which was strongly warmed up by some European powers, was replaced by rapprochement and the establishment of friendly relations between the USSR and Germany. Further improvement of these new, good relations was expressed in the German-Soviet treaty of friendship and border between the USSR and Germany, signed on September 28 in Moscow. The sharp turn in relations between the Soviet Union and Germany, between the two largest states of Europe, could not but affect the entire international situation.

        2.
        Thirdly, it should be recognized that the great war that erupted in Europe made fundamental changes in the entire international situation. This war started between Germany and Poland and turned into a war between Germany - on the one hand, England and France - on the other.

        3.
        Recently, the ruling circles of England and France have been trying to portray themselves as fighters for the democratic rights of peoples against Hitlerism, and the British government announced that the goal of the war against Germany was, no more and no less, "the destruction of Hitlerism." It turns out that the British, and with them the French, supporters of the war declared against Germany something like an "ideological war", reminiscent of the old religious wars.


        I do not urge to justify Hitler, but the USSR competently took advantage of the current situation.
        There are no white gloves in politics. If beneficial to the state-do. Union with Germany was beneficial to the USSR at that point in time. And the USSR went to him. No one reproaches England for the fact that it does not have allies, but has its own interests. Why did the USSR have to sacrifice its own interests for the sake of political opponents?
        1. 0
          10 May 2021 23: 49
          I agree that the propagandists who wrote these phrases received a good education in tsarist Russia. Not like the proletarian propagandists who taught our fathers and us for the next 70 years. The result of their labor is that there is no great Russia now.
      4. +3
        1 August 2019 14: 17
        the author of the article dirtyly manipulates the numbers
        not every third shot, but about every fifth.
        Firstly, NOT ALL shipments have arrived or were just shipped
        secondly, what has come needs to be compared not only with the produced, but also with the stocks.
        RI a year and a half in the WWII on the same reserves fought, and the Soviet reserves were much more solid.
        finally, as the author of the article, he deftly left the second part of Lend-Lease, and it was payment.
        we drove not only fish. There was gold, and currency, and other valuable resources.
        Finally, besides the United States, we could buy something in Brazil, Argentina, Sweden, Mexico and other countries. And what the hell is not joking - even in Japan.

        I am against silencing Lend-Lease, but it’s also impossible to constantly turn the situation in one direction. YES, without Lend-Lease, it would be difficult. The war with Germany could have claimed even a million lives, but at key moments the USSR turned out to take a turning point in the war with minimal help from Lend-Lease.
        This is also a fact, because on a sane scale the results of Lend-Lease became noticeable only by the end of the 42 year, when it became clear that Germany could not be defeated. Personally, I assess the entire Lend-Lease as approximately 1 / 5 from the material support of the war of the USSR in scarce positions (and there were not scarce ones either). The most noticeable contribution is equipping the Red Army for the 43 year with the required number of cars, communications, actually doubling the production of non-plywood aircraft, canned food, gunpowder. This allowed the army to quickly maneuver and advance, saving a huge number of lives.
        1. +3
          1 August 2019 16: 24
          Quote: yehat
          Finally, besides the United States, we could buy something in Brazil, Argentina, Sweden, Mexico and other countries. And what the hell is not joking - even in Japan.

          Could. And how to deliver purchased? The USSR, having collected almost the entire transport fleet in the Far East, was able to provide only a third of traffic along the Far East route. Another 2 / 3 accounted for Lend-Lease ships delivered by the United States.
          1. +3
            1 August 2019 16: 35
            Well, the ship of the USSR paid for it anyway, so no difference.
            1. 0
              1 August 2019 16: 45
              And how to pay for goods? You say buy
            2. 0
              1 August 2019 17: 02
              Quote: yehat
              Well, the ship of the USSR paid for it anyway, so no difference.

              Freight of vessels from the USA / Britain, which also go as part of a convoy. And how will we deliver to the USA / Britain?
        2. +2
          1 August 2019 19: 07
          yehat "I am against hushing up Lend-Lease, but you can't constantly turn the situation in one direction either."
          Even the pseudo-historian Borya Sokolov sometimes gives the following: “The Soviet Union, as you know, was able to withstand in the 41st and without a second front, although in September and October disasters followed near Kiev and Vyazma, and more than 1,5 million were in German captivity. The lend-lease also did not play a decisive role, since the first deliveries arrived in the USSR only at the end of the year. However, Stalin still had reserves. On October 18, after the defeat of the troops of the western direction, he sent telegrams to the Ural, Siberian and Volga districts, demanding to prepare by the end of November for the introduction of the 40 divisions available there {25}. The Germans at that time had no more reserves. Fresh Soviet divisions transferred from the East and ensured the success of the Red Army in the battle of Moscow. Lend-Lease began to play an important role later, providing opportunities for the growth of production of weapons and military equipment in the USSR and the acquisition of the Red Army significantly greater mobility. "
          1. +1
            2 August 2019 18: 51
            We had no explosives, gunpowder. There was nothing to equip rifle cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder, explosives.
            Marshal Zhukov

            This is written about the situation in the winter of 1941 --- 42 years, when the strategic supply of gunpowder and explosives ended due to the loss of the corresponding plants during the summer / fall retreat of 1941 year. This was the decisive help of the Allies, without which it was possible to lose the war.
            1. 0
              3 August 2019 07: 58
              Nikolay Chudov "It was the decisive help of the allies, without which it was possible to lose the war."
              "While the process of evacuation and adaptation of these factories in the new territory was going on,
              front spent mainly stocks
              ammunition accumulated in peacetime. The products coming from east-relocated enterprises were only
              50 – 60% of the plan. Sharp
              a decrease in the production of shells and mines was observed in the fourth quarter of 1941, and especially
              in the 1st quarter of 1942. Therefore, the consumption of artillery shells in the army was
              strictly limited. "...." Therefore, the existing shortage was replenished by supplies from the allies in the anti-Hitler coalition. They are
              started in 1942, but acquired regular
              character only since 1943 "
              So, that you should not generalize and make incomprehensible conclusions.))))
              1. +1
                3 August 2019 11: 02
                These are the conclusions of Marshal Zhukov.
                1. 0
                  3 August 2019 13: 35
                  Nikolay Chudov "These are the conclusions of Marshal Zhukov."
                  He is credited with a lot of things.)))
                  1. 0
                    3 August 2019 13: 48
                    Your quote:
                    in the 1st quarter of 1942. Therefore, the consumption of artillery shells in the army was
                    strictly limited. "

                    By limiting the enemy they do not win. The battles for Vyazma ended in failure, and could have been defeated.
                  2. +1
                    10 May 2021 23: 54
                    Some even credit him with his contribution to the victory over Hitler's Germany. But you and I know that Khrushchev did it.
      5. +1
        1 August 2019 19: 56
        TNT --- 50%, including production from imported components. Gunpowder --- 30%.
        1. 0
          3 August 2019 07: 53
          Nikolay Chudov "TNT --- 50%," including production from imported components. Gunpowder --- 30%. "
          The numbers may be different.)))
          In the 42-44 of all TNT, 361 718 thousand tons were produced at the plants of the USSR -273 193 thousand tons 75,5%. Received under the Lend-Lease 88 525 thousand tons - 24,5%
          1. 0
            3 August 2019 10: 53
            Listen yourself Alexei Isaev. By the way, what part of 273 193 thousand tons is made from imported components?
            1. -1
              3 August 2019 13: 48
              Nikolay Chudov "By the way, what part of the 273 thousand tons is produced from imported components?"
              I dont know. But maybe you just ask such questions.))) In 15, our army fought without shells at all.))) And nothing. So, to say that without Western help we would not have lost. There was help, Western help helped us, without it it would have been much harder for us to do this. But to say that without it the USSR would have lost is rubbish.
              1. +1
                3 August 2019 13: 51
                The flag is in your hands, and in the bayonet on the tanks.
                1. -1
                  3 August 2019 16: 00
                  "The role of Lend-Lease in the history of the Great Patriotic War / Alexey Isaev." Dial. On YouTube, I watched Isaev where he says that the USSR at 41,42, and even 43, managed on its own. Without Lend Lease, they would have won anyway. Even though it would have cost the USSR several million more. So drum on yourself.)))
                  1. +1
                    3 August 2019 17: 48
                    To win, it was necessary not to lose in the winter of 1941 --- 42. Then there was not only lend-lease, but also direct purchases in England, Canada supplied against the obligations of England, which was on the verge of bankruptcy. How nobody likes this period, that everyone is trying to say: "There was no such thing." "Will you throw your hats?"
                    1. 0
                      3 August 2019 17: 56
                      Nikolay Chudov "In order to win, it was necessary not to lose in the winter of 1941 --- 42."
                      What are you talking about? Where did we lose in the winter of 41-42 of the year?)))) Name at least one operation lost in the winter of 41-42 of the year.)))) No.
                      1. +1
                        3 August 2019 19: 26
                        They didn’t lose, but they could lose, because they won’t defeat the enemy by limiting their ammunition. But the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation was unsuccessful, if not disastrous.
                        https://topwar.ru/108952-rzhevsko-vyazemskaya-nastupatelnaya-operaciya-8-yanvarya-20-aprelya-1942-g.html
                      2. +1
                        3 August 2019 21: 26
                        Nikolay Chudov "https://topwar.ru/108952-rzhevsko-vyazemskaya-nastupatelnaya-operaciya-8-yanvarya-20-aprelya-1942-g.html [/quote]
                        Well, yes, a failure ... "As a result, in this most numerous grouping of the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front, by the spring of 1942 there were practically no divisions capable of conducting an offensive." Final lines of the article submitted by you. "
                        Our troops attacked throughout the winter.Soviet military miracle 1941-1943 [Revival of the Red Army]
                        Glantz David M. “Thus, the traditional view of the 1941/42 winter campaign includes the following major operations:
                        • Soviet counteroffensive near Moscow (from December 5 of 1941 of the year to January 7 of the 1942 of the year)
                        • Soviet offensive near Moscow (battle for Moscow) (from January 8 to April 20, April 1942)
                        • Soviet offensive on Tikhvin (from November 10 to December 30, December 1941)
                        • Soviet offensive on Demyansk (from 7 of January to 25 of February of 1942 of the year)
                        • Soviet offensive on Toropets and Kholom (from 9 of January to 6 of February of 1942 of the year)
                        • Soviet offensive on Barvenkovo ​​n Lozova (18-31 January 1942 years)
                        • The Soviet offensive near Kerch and Feodosia (from December 25 1941 years to January 2 1942 years)
                        Forgotten war
                        Huge gaps gap in the historical annals of the winter campaign of the Red Army of the 1941 / 1942, the most egregious of which is the almost complete absence of reliable reports of intense battles that took place on the extreme northern and southern flanks of the Moscow Red Army offensive, in areas south-east of Leningrad and in the Crimea. . These “forgotten battles” or partially ignored operations of the 1941 / 42 winter campaign include the following:
                        • Soviet Leningrad-Novgorod (Luban) offensive (from 7 January to 30 April 1942 years)
                        • Soviet offensive on Demyansk (from 1 of March to 30 of April of 1942 of the year)
                        • Soviet offensive on Rzhev and Vyazma (from February 15 to March 1, March 1942)
                        • Soviet attack on the Oryol and Volkhov (from January 7 to February 18, February 1942)
                        • Soviet offensive on the Volkhov (from 24 of March to 3 of April of 1942 of the year)
                        • Soviet offensive on Oboyan n Kursk (3-26 January 1942 years)
                        • Soviet offensive in Crimea (from February 27 to April 15, 1942) "
                      3. +1
                        4 August 2019 07: 18
                        The same period on imported gunpowder.
                      4. +1
                        4 August 2019 07: 45
                        Nikolay Chudov "The same period on imported gunpowder."
                        That moment when it would not hurt to confirm your allegations with references to documents or scientific papers.
                      5. +1
                        4 August 2019 09: 45
                        I can repeat the video again:
                      6. +1
                        4 August 2019 10: 07
                        In general, judging by the certificate of the People’s Commissariat of Defense, submitted to the Council in the spring of 1941
                        People's Commissars of the USSR, the military industry was able to provide
                        ammunition only xnumx% valid
                        needs of the Red Army.7
                        At the beginning of World War II
                        in connection with the Nazi occupation of a large territory in the west of the country and with the evacuation of a large number of defense enterprises in the eastern
                        areas, the issue of ammunition production has become even more acute. Out of order
                        303 enterprises producing these products. The powder industry has lost 2 / 3 production capacity. From 8 gunpowder factories, 5 was evacuated to
                        east of the country. With the loss of Donbass, more than 1 / 4 reduced toluene production capacities. From August to November 1941, the enterprises that produced 7 800 tons of gunpowder, 3 000 tons of TNT, 16 000 tons of ammonium nitrate per month were out of order.
                        While there was a process of evacuation and adaptation of these plants in the new territory,
                        front spent mainly stocks
                        ammunition accumulated in peacetime. The products coming from east-relocated enterprises were only
                        50 – 60% of the plan. Sharp
                        a decrease in the production of shells and mines was observed in the fourth quarter of 1941, and especially
                        in the 1st quarter of 1942. Therefore, the consumption of artillery shells in the army was
                        strictly limited ...
                        ... From the middle of 1942, the release of ammunition began to increase ...
                        In 1941 – 1945 The USSR received from the allies of 318 000 tons of explosives, including gunpowder (from the USA - 296 000 tons, from Great Britain and Canada - 22 000 tons). In addition, the United Kingdom supplied the Red Army 472 million units. shells ...
                        D.V. Gavrilov
                        PRODUCTION OF POWDERS AND EXPLOSIVES IN THE USSR
                        ON THE EVE AND IN THE YEARS OF THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR *
                        "Ural Historical Bulletin" № 1 (46) 2015

                        http://uralhist.uran.ru/pdf/UIV_1%2846%29_2015_Gavrilov.pdf
                      7. 0
                        4 August 2019 12: 52
                        Nikolay Chudov "in the first quarter of 1942. Therefore, the consumption of artillery shells in the active army was
                        strictly limited. "
                        YES, I DID YOU FROM HERE.)))) Here it is completely ..... "While the process of evacuation and adaptation of these plants in the new territory was going on,
                        front spent mainly stocks
                        ammunition accumulated in peacetime. The products coming from east-relocated enterprises were only
                        50 – 60% of the plan. Sharp
                        a decrease in the production of shells and mines was observed in the fourth quarter of 1941, and especially
                        in the 1st quarter of 1942. Therefore, the consumption of artillery shells in the army was
                        strictly limited. "Why didn't you fully bring it up?))) Doesn't match your statements?))))
                        But you talked about the numbers about the munitions delivered by the allies in the winter of 41-41 of the year. This is not here.
                      8. +1
                        4 August 2019 14: 43
                        DV Gavrilov cites another source, an earlier one. The failure of ammunition production in the winter of 1941-1942 is clearly visible. Writing about the import of gunpowder and explosives during this period is unpatriotic, they are hushed up. Only in the video there is a mention, even in Zhukov (article epigraph). With that drop in production and losses, for example, 350 British tanks in December 1941 already accounted for 20% of the Red Army tanks, this is a general tendency in numbers to decrease in absolute terms and increase% of the reduced base. And in Russian to say: "The spool is small, but expensive." Minus that 20% of tanks, minus the unpublished figure for the supply of gunpowder, and will it be better or worse? Near Moscow everything hung by a thread, there was nothing superfluous. This is about the end of the war 1944 --- 1945 we can say that they would have won anyway, but with great sacrifices and later. But who would have gotten Berlin then?
                      9. 0
                        4 August 2019 20: 49
                        Nikolay Chudov "D. V. Gavrilov cites another source, an earlier one."
                        He wrote an article in 2015. What prevented him from finding another no longer patriotic source?
                        Nikolay Chudov "Near Moscow everything hung in the balance, there was nothing superfluous."
                        Yes, only when the Germans were exhausted before them loomed 8 reserve armies.))) Of which, in my opinion, only 3 newly formed armies participated in the counteroffensive on December 5, 1941 in the ranks of the Western Front .. And they were enough for the Germans. From wiki ... "at the beginning of the December counteroffensive, there were already more than 1,1 million people, 7652 guns and mortars, 415 rocket launchers, 774 tanks (including 222 heavy and medium) and 1 aircraft." About British tanks it is not clear what and where to minus.))) Here are the data "If in December 1941 the offensive was carried out by six fronts in a strip of up to 1200 km, then in January of next year it had to be deployed on a front of 2000 km with the participation of nine fronts and two fleets As of January 1, 1942, the active army numbered 4 thousand people, 199 thousand guns and mortars, 27,7 tanks (of which 1784 were heavy and medium). The ground forces of Germany and its allies on the Eastern Front had 506 thousand people , about 3 thousand guns and mortars, 909 tanks. (History of the Second World War, 35 - 1500, - vol. 1939, Moscow, Voenizdat, 1945, - p. 4) Consequently, the general ratio of forces and means in relation to December 1975 changed in favor of the Red Army, but not significantly. " Remove 305% of the tanks?))) Well, remove it and what will it give? At that time, the Germans also had large tank losses. Although this data can also be declared incorrect.)))
                      10. +1
                        5 August 2019 05: 21
                        Ammunition data again missing. And here is what Zhukov wrote:
                        In February and March, the Stavka demanded to intensify offensive operations in the western direction, but by that time the forces and means were exhausted.
                        In general, the resources of our country at that time were extremely limited. The needs of the troops could not yet be met as required by the tasks and situation. It came to the point that every time we were called to the Headquarters, we literally asked the Supreme Commander-in-Chief for anti-tank rifles, PPSh, 10 — 15 anti-tank guns, and the minimum required number of shells and mines. Everything, that
                        57
                        managed to get this way, immediately loaded into cars and sent to the most needy armies.
                        Ammunition was especially bad. So, of the ammunition planned for the first decade of January, our Western Front was provided with: 82-millimeter mines — 1 percent; artillery rounds - 20 — 30 percent. But in general, in January, 50-millimeter mines - 2,7 percent, 120-millimeter mines - 36 percent, 82-millimeter mines - 55 percent, artillery rounds - 44 percent 1. The February plan was not implemented at all. Of the planned 316 cars for the first decade, not a single one was received. Due to the lack of ammunition for rocket artillery, it had to be partially withdrawn to the rear of the 2.
                        It is probably hard to believe that we had to set the rate of ... ammunition - 1 — 2 shots per gun per day. And this, mind you, during the offensive! The report of the Western Front addressed to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief from 14 on February 1942 of the year said:
                        “As the experience of fighting has shown, the lack of shells makes it impossible to carry out an artillery attack. As a result, the enemy’s fire system is not destroyed, and our units, attacking the low suppression of the enemy’s defense, suffer very large losses, without achieving proper success. ”3.

                        http://roterstern.narod.ru/zhukov2.htm
                      11. 0
                        5 August 2019 06: 15
                        Nikolay Chudov "Again there is no data on ammunition."
                        You then tanks, then ammunition.))) Nobody says that the ammunition was in excess. And the guns were missing over 100 mm. And all this undoubtedly affected the combat effectiveness of the troops, but offensive operations continued until April 1942. The most important critical indicator in the defense industry was the production of TNT and toluene. Even motor vehicles did not have such a critical level. Here was the weak point. But, even so, it is not necessary to say that without the supplies of the allies, the USSR would have lost the war. For example, from an interview with Isaev, if you already presented his video to me: "The USSR achieved great success in economic and military construction in the 1930s. For example, even in the summer of 1944, 75% of the Red Army's vehicle fleet were domestically produced cars, and the share of serviceable Soviet-made vehicles were consistently higher than foreign, Lend-Lease and captured vehicles.The overwhelming majority of the Red Army's military equipment was also Soviet-made.
                        However, the military industry of the USSR had an “Achilles heel”: the production of gunpowder and explosives (including due to the loss of plants in the 1941 year). In 1944, we got a third of gunpowder for ammunition by Lend-Lease. Based on the direct supply of explosives and the supply of raw materials for it (toluene) in 1942-1944, almost half of TNT, the main explosive for shells, came from abroad.
                        In other words, the Red Army could use its own forces to fend off the Germans on the defensive, but in order to go forward and quickly end the Nazis, allied supplies were needed. Lack of allied help would cost us more losses. "Anews Interview 24.04 Author: Ellada Karibova
                      12. +1
                        5 August 2019 17: 48
                        Again:
                        It is probably hard to believe that we had to set the rate of ... ammunition - 1 — 2 shots per gun per day. And this, mind you, during the offensive! The report of the Western Front addressed to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief from 14 on February 1942 of the year said:
                        “As the experience of fighting has shown, the lack of shells makes it impossible to carry out an artillery attack. As a result, the enemy’s fire system is not destroyed, and our units, attacking the low suppression of the enemy’s defense, suffer very large losses, without achieving proper success. ”3.
                        , --- this means that the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation was a gigantic bluff, which had a huge moral and psychological impact on the Wehrmacht and on you. Only.
                      13. 0
                        5 August 2019 21: 19
                        Nikolay Chudov "this means that the Rzhev-Vyazemskaya operation was a giant bluff."
                        Well, I see.)) Bluff)))) And even the Wehrmacht was led.))) And it’s a sinful thing for me. When there is nothing to say, exhaustion from the finger begins, cleverness. Once again: At this time, the Red Army had another 13 operations of various sizes. In addition to Rzhevsko-Vyazemskaya. For your favorite Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation: From the wiki:
                        "Losses:
                        From January 1 to March 30, the 1942 Army Group Center lost more than 330 thousand people — about half the personnel. Losses of Soviet troops in the operation, according to official figures, amounted to 776 889 people, of which irrevocable 272 320, or 25,7%.
                        In particular, in two and a half months of fighting (from February 2) the personnel of the 33 Army destroyed 8700 enemy soldiers and officers, 24 tanks, 29 guns and other military equipment. The irretrievable losses of the 33 Army during the same period amounted to more than 8000 people, including about 6000 soldiers and commanders during the exit from the encirclement. Only 889 people were able to break through to their troops in small groups.
                        Results:
                        Despite its incompleteness, the operation was of great importance in the course of the general offensive of the Red Army. Soviet troops threw back the enemy in the western direction by 80-250 km, completed the liberation of the Moscow and Tula regions, and liberated many areas of the Kalinin and Smolensk regions. The operation resulted in the formation of the Rzhev-Vyazma ledge. "
                        Here's such a bluff.)))) Hmm ... you obviously have nothing to be proud of.)))) I think it's time to finish. You are already repeating, and this is not interesting.
                      14. +1
                        6 August 2019 05: 10
                        You repeat yourself too. To go on the offensive with so much ammunition is a real bluff without any opportunity to achieve the main goal, to surround the Germans at Vyazma and Rzhev, and these are two German armies, one field and one tank. The result of such an encirclement is grander than Stalingrad, be it implemented, but, as the saying goes: "There were eighteen reasons for that: the first reason - there was no gunpowder ..."
                      15. +1
                        6 August 2019 10: 08
                        Nikolay Chudov "Go on the offensive with so much ammunition." The report of the Western Front cited above.
                        This applies to February 14 1942. The Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation began on January 8 1942. That is, you propose to stop the troops because there is no ammunition?))) I suspected that you had great potential. You would have been in a 41 to a leadership position (yes, what to put there immediately the Secretary General) and I have no doubt that the USSR would have won in the summer of 1941 of the year. And there would be plenty of ammunition and tanks.)))) Okay. I understood you. All the best.
                      16. 0
                        6 August 2019 11: 43
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        You would have been in a 41 to a leadership position (yes, what to put there immediately the Secretary General) and I have no doubt that the USSR would have won in the summer of 1941 of the year.

                        Now, whoever you take, everyone knows better than Stalin how it was necessary to lead the state and how to defeat Germany in the first months of the war. He is already taken aback - how many undisclosed "talents" we have on the forums rubs his pants, but we still cannot reach the level of the USSR ...
                      17. +1
                        6 August 2019 17: 21
                        I came from work, I have the right. And you do not wipe and go to the level of the USSR. Or are you overseeing here?
                      18. -1
                        6 August 2019 21: 39
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        I came from work, I have the right.

                        You are not the only one working - tear the vest in another place.
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        And you do not wipe and go to the level of the USSR.

                        With the current leaders, this is not possible.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Or are you overseeing here?

                        Is it yours? Do not tell, it is too shallow ....
                      19. 0
                        7 August 2019 05: 07
                        No, behind the purity of ideology on the way to the USSR.
                      20. 0
                        7 August 2019 08: 13
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        No, behind the purity of ideology on the way to the USSR.

                        Very flattered for the trust.
                      21. 0
                        6 August 2019 17: 19
                        They already told me that. It was impossible to bring the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation to the final victory.
        2. 0
          10 May 2021 23: 56
          It's bad that there were no modern patriots then, who only fight with domestic gunpowder, and despise such!
      6. 0
        2 August 2019 16: 42
        Explosives: produced 558 thousand tons; 295,6 thousand tons delivered; 53%

        Half of the gunpowder and explosives used in the course of the hostilities are Lend-Lease supplies. This means that every second bullet and every second shell, bomb or torpedo, hand grenade or mine produced their intended action due to ... supplies. Every second shot at the enemy was "foreign" - that's how it is!

        the author does not just juggle with numbers, without providing proofs (in such an article, the proof should be for each figure, and not the afftor’s statement that he wants to see how anyone knows how to work with a computer), he brazenly lies in the eyes of readers - one third of gunpowder and explosives used in the course of hostilities is Lend-Lease supply, but not halfbased on the figures given by him! By the way, it is not known for what period the production and supply of explosives was given by this propagandist.
        Like the first, this article is an impudent and unscrupulous PR of Lend-Lease, which relies on unconfirmed, unknown statistics figures (there are no proofs and bad lies, as in the above example), which was also evaluated by Disraeli: “There are three types lies: lies, blatant lies and statistics. ” Articles are cheap crafts exclusively from all three types.
        I believe it is necessary to raise the question of the removal of both articles from the site in connection with the conscious distortion of the truth by the afftor.
        1. +1
          2 August 2019 17: 05
          A third of gunpowder and half of TNT.
        2. 0
          10 May 2021 23: 59
          The author does not just juggle with numbers, but simply does not explain to his contemporaries that one third of the gunpowder and explosives used in the course of hostilities, even if it was done by the allies, is an insignificant share in the conduct of hostilities by heroic people!
    3. +8
      1 August 2019 10: 59
      Will the author lead at least one such "toast"?

      Could write to you: open the TRUTH and find for yourself. But ... I promise - I will bring it. I'll go back to the archive, take a picture and bring it!
      Well come on you swear laughing
      Truth from 11January 1941

      1. +6
        1 August 2019 14: 01
        Thank you dear Sergey! good
      2. +3
        1 August 2019 20: 59
        Bravo, Sergey!
      3. 0
        11 May 2021 00: 03
        The KPSS members, as they were fagots, remained so after the destruction of my Motherland - the USSR. Just look at their fat faces in the State Duma.
    4. 0
      2 August 2019 01: 14
      Quote: Far In
      although just recently, the newspaper proclaimed the toast to “brothers in arms” - Germany and the USSR - just as beautifully.

      Will the author lead at least one such "toast"? They stopped scolding Nazi Germany after the pact - yes. But no one kissed her gums either.

      The author is an ignoramus! J. Orwell in his novel "1984" described just the West, and the Soviet Union was devoted to the novel "Animal Corner", which we for some reason translated as "Animal Farm". He himself wrote about this more than once. As for "changing shoes", I advise Mr. Shpakovsky to compare the Hollywood "odes of the USSR" in 1941 and 1950. I think he will be very surprised. hi
    5. 0
      26 October 2019 17: 13
      It is impossible to trust what Zhukov said just like the late astronaut Leonov. The United States raped from this war, which they themselves started a lot of money. Stalin, of course, broke his plan a little, but Khrushchev adjusted everything.
      1. 0
        11 May 2021 00: 06
        The United States got it from this war, which they themselves started the money for. Therefore, their workers, unlike the Soviet ones, received tens of times more for their labor. I wonder which country was the proletarian?
    6. 0
      10 May 2021 23: 39
      Nazi Germany may have ceased to kiss on the gums with her, but Guderian was taught at the Kazan Tank School. Proletarian, i.e. gopots, they are all like that. Thank God that the country has gone through this and our people receive normal goods for their labor, which have finally ceased to be called the wealth of the people. Need to work!
    7. 0
      25 May 2021 10: 07
      Let me give you? Here, enjoy: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EScnE0aXkAUf2Rf.jpg
      So they were kissing on the gums. With a feeling of deep satisfaction.
  2. +7
    1 August 2019 05: 57
    So let's take a look and compare: how much was produced in the USSR, how much was supplied under Lend-Lease and in what percentage is one with the other.
    All of this is correct. But I would very much like to see not just what was supplied, but also when. To understand this help was always timely or its main flow started when it became clear that the USSR had resisted
    1. +9
      1 August 2019 06: 14
      Quote: svp67

      All of this is correct. But I would very much like to see not just what was supplied, but also when. To understand this help was always timely or its main flow started when it became clear that the USSR had resisted

      As for%, then

      The total amount of LL from the USA to the USSR alone - 11,3 billion $ excluding supplies from the UK and Canada amounted to 11 billion $ is 6% of US GDP at face value of 1944-45 of the year or 3.6% of world GDP.
      By analogy with today, this is about $ 2.8 trillion, which is a solid amount.

      As for what was supplied, I recall that this was not a gag of the Allies, but the fulfillment of orders of the USSR. As for the time, we should not forget that the Allies were not only forced to increase production to satisfy our orders, but they themselves waged a war, which required huge logistics from them, and it was not created in five minutes.
      1. +6
        1 August 2019 06: 29
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        As for what was supplied, I recall that this was not a gag of the Allies, but the fulfillment of orders of the USSR.

        Yes, all this is understandable. But Lend-Lease did not "flow" to us in a "uniform stream", there were times when it represented a "trickle", and when it went like a "shaft". And I would very much like to compare the "fullness" of this flow in time, with the stages of the Second World War.
        1. +10
          1 August 2019 06: 40
          Quote: svp67

          Yes, all this is understandable. But Lend-Lease did not "flow" to us in a "uniform stream", there were times when it represented a "trickle", and when it went like a "shaft". And I would very much like to compare the "fullness" of this flow in time, with the stages of the Second World War.

          Well, it's natural . Firstly, neither the British nor the Americans were preparing to give us help in advance. Secondly, the Americans in the 42 year not only deployed their military industry, which reached maximum production by the beginning of the 44 year, but created their own armed forces, and they, with the exception of the Navy, the ILC and the Air Force, were smaller than the Polish army 39. Third, the war with Japan and the defeat of the US Armed Forces on MOT forced the Americans to give up everything that they had precisely to make up for the losses of this part of the war. For example, 400 aircraft, which in December 41 should have already departed for the USSR, were recalled and sent for maintenance. Of course, this did not make us feel better, but the Americans then had to cover their ass.
          1. +1
            1 August 2019 06: 43
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            For example 400 aircraft, which in December 41 should have already set off for the USSR

            What kind of airplanes is it and on what basis?
            1. +7
              1 August 2019 06: 46
              Quote: svp67
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              For example 400 aircraft, which in December 41 should have already set off for the USSR

              What kind of airplanes is it and on what basis?

              I'll look in the evening. And the reason for recalling the aircraft was an attack by Japan.
              1. +1
                1 August 2019 06: 47
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                And the reason for recalling the aircraft was an attack by Japan.

                Yes, everything is clear. It’s interesting, what kind of airplanes ... Their number is substantial.
                1. 0
                  1 August 2019 07: 35
                  so, "cobras" I suppose
                  1. +2
                    1 August 2019 07: 36
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    so, "cobras" I suppose

                    in 1941 year?
                    1. +5
                      1 August 2019 07: 40
                      aha, and first from England "The first aircraft were unloaded in Murmansk at the end of December 1941, deliveries continued in 1942. Great Britain sent 212 P-39 fighters to the Soviet Union via the northern route through Murmansk,"
                      "The first 20 R-39 aircraft entered service with the 22nd Reserve Aviation Regiment (ZAP), formed in October 1941 in Ivanovo. The regiment was intended for retraining pilots for foreign aircraft arriving under Lend-Lease."
                  2. +1
                    1 August 2019 08: 36
                    Most likely P-40.
                    1. +1
                      1 August 2019 09: 26
                      British P-400! This is how they nicknamed "Cobra" R-39.
                      1. 0
                        1 August 2019 09: 40
                        I meant the P-40 Warhawk. The British called it "Tomahawk" or "Kittyhawk".
                      2. +3
                        1 August 2019 09: 46
                        I understood you! But it is about "Cobras".
                        You decided that they were confused with P-40.
                        The first batch of "Tomahawks", which included 20 P-40s of the early series, was sent from the USA to the USSR in September 1941. It was purchased for gold, and not through the "Lend-Lease", which was extended to the USSR only from November 7 ...
                        By that time, the English "Tomahawks" had already arrived in Arkhangelsk. On August 31, with a "trial" convoy PQ-0 "Dervish", 7 "Tomagauks" PA (RAF numbers from AN965 to AN971) and 17 - PV models (AK196-198, 242-247, 250, 253, 255-258, 300, 311). These options differed only in radio equipment and wing armament: British HF stations and Browning machine guns with a caliber of 7,69 mm were installed on the PA, American VHF stations and 7,62-mm Colt Browning were installed on the PV.

                        As you can see, P-40 arrived earlier than P-39!
                      3. +2
                        1 August 2019 09: 49
                        Of course earlier! "Cobras" began to enter the Red Army in large quantities from the beginning of 1943. along the Trans-Iranian route.
                      4. +5
                        1 August 2019 09: 58
                        The main difference is MASSIVE! But this does not mean that these aircraft were not in the USSR until the 1943 year! For 1942, the USSR received 192 machines of this type.
          2. +6
            1 August 2019 08: 47
            1.2.3.4 ... orders, production deployment, war with Japan, logistics ...
            5. Internal logistics.
            A caravan arrives at the port - there are no cranes - carry powerful cranes. They’re being driven ... for now, the Allied ships leave their cranes or remain for unloading. And rails, and steam locomotives (there are no interchanges, there is NO BRIDGE even across Dvina - ice is frozen for crossing), and sawmills (there are no necessary warehouses) and refrigeration equipment, etc. etc.
            In the Far East, the same hole. They also build ships and give them - there is nothing to carry. Unload and transport on small caboters through the shallow Tatar Strait ... Queues of unloaded vessels ...
            Persia? Also a hole. In Basra, the queue of ships, goods deteriorate. The allies import bulldozers, graders, excavators, rails, stone crushers ... The USSR has nothing. They build roads, set up factories to drive vehicles directly from there. We opened it to the 43 year.
            Alsib? Ours put it overdrive later into operation, promised 41-42go in winter - nifiga ... airfields are not ready, there is no fuel, radio masts, pilots ...
            And after the war, screams begin: they took their time, waited am Yeah, they waited until we finally dig a fairway and build interchanges in the ports. Well, they had the mind not to ask to fight with the Japanese, but to let Stalin wait.

            It is all as if someone had ordered the piano to be brought free of charge to the gangster district on the 15 floor (the elevator does not work). Dudes skid, but he does not go to the door. ..Disassemble the doorway, enter, make repairs at his own expense ... And then the grandson yells: why did they mess around for so long?
            1. +1
              1 August 2019 09: 23
              Persia? Also a hole. In Basra, the queue of ships, goods deteriorate. The allies import bulldozers, graders, excavators, rails, stone crushers ... The USSR has nothing. They build roads, set up factories to drive vehicles directly from there. We opened it to the 43 year.

              Basra port is IRAQ! The British were responsible for Iraq!
              Have you personally witnessed those events?
              The USSR was responsible for the northern part of the Persian corridor. The British, and then the Americans who replaced them for the south!
              The transport networks of Iran and Iraq, through whose territories traffic flows passed, managed until October 1942 of the year! After they were expanded and modernized by joint efforts!
              The main enterprise for organizing all transport operations was the Iranovtrans association, which had existed in Iran since 1935. By 1943, this organization has structurally changed due to the formation of new departments, services, peripheral offices and agencies and received the name of the Soviet Transport Administration (STU). In its composition there were 1500 people, including 775 of Soviet citizens. Many services were headed by the rear army officers of the Red Army, who were specialists in the operation of aircraft and automobiles, railways and highways, the supply and storage of ammunition, fuels and lubricants, and others. The activities of the STU in Iran were led by the rear army command. On the territory of the USSR, the rear of the Transcaucasian, North Caucasian, and Turkestan military districts, the Caspian military flotilla, the Caspian shipping company, the ports of Baku, Krasnovodsk, Makhachkala, the Transcaucasian and Ashgabat railways, and many highways were included in the transportation of goods.
              1. +7
                1 August 2019 10: 55
                Sorry, Iraq. But the meaning is clear - they did not delay deliveries, but the lack of logistics and infrastructure on the ground. And not at all 775 Soviet citizens solved this problem
                1. +1
                  1 August 2019 11: 17
                  Where did I indicate that 775 Soviet citizens decided everything?
                  The main enterprise for organizing all transport operations was the Iranovtrans association, which had existed in Iran since 1935. By 1943, this organization has structurally changed due to the formation of new departments, services, peripheral offices and agencies and received the name of the Soviet Transport Administration (STU). In its composition there were 1500 people, including 775 of Soviet citizens.

                  The number of STU was indicated!
                  These people were directly in Iran.
                  In four American and two English car assembly plants and several car assembly plants, 191 075 vehicles were assembled in less than three years, including 184 112 for the Soviet Union. Every month, at least three thousand cars were collected and sent to the USSR, which were organized into convoys of 40 – 50 cars and were transferred to the USSR under armed guard. The commanders of the columns were Soviet officers and sergeants. There were not enough drivers, and therefore it was decided to hire drivers from the local population, as well as to recruit people and train them in driving cars. The highway south of Tehran was guarded mainly by Indian military units.
                  In Andimeshka, Khorramshahr, Bushehr and Shuaybe (Iraq) organized the loading of imported vehicles with military goods, formed convoys. Thus, in the USSR they transported 434 thousand tons in American trucks, 36 thousand tons in English, 221 thousand tons in Iran and 1615 thousand in Soviet. The planes were first assembled in Margil and Shuayba, and after the creation of an air base in Abadan, two Soviet air regiments, equipped with experienced front-line pilots, were formed for haul. Some of the cars were sent disassembled and were already assembled in the USSR.

                  But the meaning is clear - they did not delay deliveries, but the lack of logistics and infrastructure on the ground.

                  Who could have imagined before WWII that such large volumes of cargo would have to be transported by sea, railways and highways?
                  More than sure that the British themselves had to reform their own logistics to improve the supply of their own country and troops in different parts of the world!
                  The same applies to our work in the Far East and the Far North!
                  Veteran driver P. Demchenko recalled these days: “For all my life I remembered those 2500 kilometers of narrow mountain roads, through steep passes with countless blind turns, through a hot desert, shrouded in dense dust, which no headlights can penetrate . And all at a pace: faster, faster - the front is not waiting, it’s even harder there. Barely surrendered cars and cargo in Julfa, immediately on the return trip ...
                  There were accidents, sabotage, gang raids. Many of our graves remained on that path. The Iranians and Arabs who helped us were also killed. The Western allies were not without sacrifice. ”
                  1. +3
                    1 August 2019 14: 13
                    I don’t understand what are you arguing about? Are you justifying the lack of the necessary infrastructure in the USSR? Well, this does not deny its absence.
                    P.S. minus did not set you
              2. +4
                1 August 2019 12: 06
                Quote: hohol95
                The USSR was responsible for the northern part of the Persian corridor. The British, and then the Americans who replaced them for the south!
                The transport networks of Iran and Iraq, through whose territories traffic flows passed, managed until October 1942 of the year! After they were expanded and modernized by joint efforts!

                Here's how Stettinius describes what he had to deal with when organizing the transport corridor through Iran:
                After the joint Anglo-Russian occupation of Iran in August 1941, the Russians began organizing the delivery of military supplies in the northern section from Tehran, where goods could be delivered by rail or by truck to ports on the Caspian Sea or by truck to the southern end of the Soviet Caucasian railway . The British got a more difficult task: to deliver goods to the Persian Gulf, unload in ports and then transport almost all over Iran to the Russian zone in the north.
                When the British set to work, there was only one suitable port on the entire Persian Gulf - Basra on the Shatt al-Arab, a river formed by the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates. But Basra was on the Iraqi side of the river. It was connected by railways with Turkey, Syria and Palestine, but there was no road to Iran except a route to bypass the desert. It was generally difficult to call Khorramshahr on the Iranian side a port, just like Bender Shahpur, where there was the southern end of the Iranian railway.
                And this road itself was hardly suitable: it was suitable only for relatively easy transport. There were only a few hundred freight wagons and not enough locomotives to transport heavy freight trains along steep and winding tracks. This line was almost all single-track, it ran along mountainous terrain, and hundreds of bridges had to be passed, and tunnels met almost every two miles, and bumps often blocked the path. There are many roads and paths, which, however, are only suitable for transporting goods on camels and donkeys. There were almost no trucks in Iran then.
                1. +2
                  1 August 2019 12: 57
                  Who could have imagined before WWII that such large volumes of cargo would have to be transported by sea, railways and highways?
                  Yes, and through territories in which there was nothing like it!
                  In our North and Far East there was a similar picture.
                  1. +3
                    1 August 2019 16: 04
                    Quote: hohol95
                    In our North and Far East there was a similar picture.

                    In our North and Far East there was at least the experience of WWI - then the Empire faced exactly the same problem. And she was able to completely solve it - the export rate was lower than the import rate, and in the same North, goods were accumulated in warehouses. It seems that there are weapons, ammunition and everything else in the country - but they did not reach the front. At first these warehouses in Grazhdanskaya were half taken out in red, which made it possible to arm and equip their forces in the northern theater, and then they supplied and armed white forces.
                    1. +2
                      1 August 2019 16: 47
                      But for some comrades this experience will not be enough! And there were no bridges. Roads, developed railway connections. Ports are small and poorly equipped! And there are NO ships at all for the transportation of goods! The total failure of the USSR in logistics on its own territory!
                      The USSR sat down on the neck of the allies, dangled its legs and only complained and "juices from them" pulled in the form of free stew!
              3. +3
                1 August 2019 12: 11
                Moreover, Stettinius claims that the British part of the corridor (when it was still British) was built with American help:
                However, from the very beginning it was clear that the British alone could not ensure the supply through Iran of everything necessary for the railway and for the construction of the highway and a sufficient number of trucks for it. In September-October of the 1941 of the year, immediately after the British began the first deliveries through the Persian Gulf, Washington began preparing for the supply of Lend-Lease trucks, wagons, locomotives, rails, etc. It became clear that each one would be needed more or less suitable in the Persian Gulf bay. Planning for port expansion by our engineers began.
                In late autumn, the mission of Brigadier General Wheeler, who was engaged in similar work in India, arrived in Iran to take over the management of American projects. Since the British had already taken up Bender-Shahpur, he decided to tackle it. Under his leadership, engineers began to build new marinas and moorings, a canal for large cargo ships was dug, and the construction of an assembly plant for American trucks began. Military engineers took on the old road from Khorramshahr to Ahwaz and, attracting many local workers, turned it into a first-class highway. They also began to build a plant for the construction of barges for the transport of heavy goods along the Karun River, connecting Ahvaz with Khorramshahr.

                But between the lines, Stettinius reads that the British did not cope with the task, and only when the Yankees gave the corridor everything worked fine:
                By May 1943, the volume of deliveries to Russia through Iran increased 2,5 times compared to the end of the English management period and 10 times compared to August 1941 and amounted to over 100 000 tons per month. Since then, this volume has increased.
          3. -1
            1 August 2019 10: 11
            Aaron Zaavi "Well, this is natural. First of all, neither the British nor the Americans were prepared to provide us with help in advance."
            The fate of the country was decided in October, November 1941 of the year near Moscow. And all summer we barely held on. how much and what did we get at these moments?))) In the winter, our counterattack was at the time of its completion, our factories, thrown inland, began to produce products.
          4. 0
            1 August 2019 11: 43
            Strong IMHO and EMNIP, but the FDR began to deploy its military industry even before the 1942-th ..... Long enough. It is clear that he also had a lot of limitations, but all this process began a little earlier than the actual 1941 ....
            1. +2
              1 August 2019 12: 31
              Quote: frog
              Strong IMHO and EMNIP, but the FDR began to deploy its military industry before the 1942 th .....

              This is not IMHO - the US military industry really began to unfold even before the start of WWII, when the FDR broke through the increase in the size of the American army to a million (and then further increases followed). Shipbuilding began to be loaded in this way back in 1937 - after the order of "post-Washington" and the program for the mass construction of high-speed transports to re-equip American shipping companies in order to improve their competitiveness.
              Then WWII began - and the American industry, in parallel with the orders of its own army, began to fulfill orders from Europe. And at the end of 1940, the FDR began pumping up Britain with weapons - and the military-industrial complex received a new impetus in development, since now it essentially needed to supply two armies. At first, there were problems, up to the complete confiscation of orders from the US Army in favor of Britain, but everything was more or less adjusted to 1942.
              1. +1
                1 August 2019 13: 53
                Thanks. I read about this a bit, unlike some. As well as about the "creation of the sun" ..... It was all a little .... more than good. Personnel was a problem, but everyone had this crap with the explosive growth of the armed forces. The only question is who survived these problems ...
                1. +2
                  1 August 2019 19: 30
                  Quote: frog
                  As well as about the "creation of the sun" ..... It was all a little .... more than good. Personnel was a problem, but everyone had this crap with the explosive growth of the armed forces.

                  Oh yes ... I read an ibiblio monograph on the American army before and during WWII. belay
                  In the initial deployments, there are four settlement divisions (and a reserve prepared on this microscopic base). And the ground forces, in which half of the personnel are coastal artillery. Oh yes, two of the four divisions are outside the United States, and you can’t touch them - one covers the Philippines, the other Hawaii (as a result, the Hawaiian division allocated personnel to form just one new division).
                  In addition, President Roosevelt regularly plunders the army, pulling out weapons from arsenals and redirecting fresh orders from the US army to Britain. At the beginning of 1941, he managed to give away all the B-17 "fortresses" made for the USA with limes, and then robbed the arsenals with half of the available 75-mm guns.
                  And from these initial Yankees managed to deploy 1941 divisions in December in a couple of years (and continued this process). This is even cooler than the Wehrmacht from the Reichswehr or the pre-war deployment of the Red Army. smile
                  The Marines also excelled - their two brigades in a couple of years formed two divisions and a dozen marine defense battalions of the coastal defense (Marine defense battalion).
                  1. +2
                    1 August 2019 20: 22
                    Oh yes ..... I also read something. Basically, how the fleet was created, and everything that relates to it. I would say phenomenally. In general, it was very well described in a book for Pearl Harbor ..... I liked the book very much .....
        2. 0
          1 August 2019 07: 01
          Yes, all this is understandable. But Lend-Lease did not "flow" to us in a "uniform stream", there were times when it represented a "trickle", and when it went like a "shaft". And I would very much like to compare the "fullness" of this flow in time, with the stages of the Second World War.

          Delivery data by years, the author could easily write in the article, but he did not do this .....)))
          1. +3
            1 August 2019 07: 02
            Quote: lucul
            but he didn’t do it .....)))

            Or didn’t want to. Moreover, we need not annual deliveries, but monthly ones. And it would be better not what came, but what was sent.
            1. +9
              1 August 2019 08: 28
              We need not annual deliveries, but monthly ones. And it would be better not what came, but what was sent.
              Such statistics cannot be found in the public domain. To do this, go to the state archives. And there, I think, it will be very difficult to find data on the monthly shipment of goods by name. Therefore, you should not set the author an impossible task.
              For six months in dollars there. If you are satisfied, I can lay out.
              1. +2
                1 August 2019 08: 32
                Quote: Undecim
                Such statistics can not be found in the public domain.

                Yes there is. Lend-Lease has been sufficiently studied and a lot of material has been published on these issues. Just a lot of time to spend on their search and systematization.
                1. +7
                  1 August 2019 08: 47
                  So spend it a little for the common good of VO readers. All will tell you a friendly thank you! And I am the first!
                2. +7
                  1 August 2019 08: 48
                  All material released is based on a finite number of primary archival documents, such as this.

                  I have never met monthly supply statistics, especially with a breakdown by type. If you have, I will be happy to get acquainted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. +3
                        1 August 2019 09: 35
                        Well, let there be documents from "our" archives. Actually, any primary source is valuable, both "ours" and "theirs". Try to compile, in accordance with your own requirements, a certificate for at least one month of any year of your choice.
                      2. +1
                        1 August 2019 09: 46
                        Quote: Undecim
                        Try to compile a certificate in accordance with your own requirements at least one month of any year of your choice.

                        "I like your" professorial tone ". Do you think that I have never done such work? Well, well ... In the evening, I'll have my free time. Moreover, here everything is already broken down by months ... And now, do not exact, but there are no longer pending cases
                      3. +7
                        1 August 2019 09: 51
                        Why "professorial"? Is the correct address to the interlocutor inherent only to professors? And I don't count anything. I am interested in any source of information, and you indicated that you have certain information. I became interested. No more.
                      4. +5
                        1 August 2019 10: 04
                        Very good stuff. Thank! But this is one of the particulars, no more. There are always more details than the whole. And they do not deny it.
      2. +2
        1 August 2019 16: 07
        Aron, to you +: reasonable remark
    2. +3
      1 August 2019 10: 15
      But I would very much like to see not just what was supplied, but also when.
      hi
      Robert Jones
      Lend-Lease. Roads to Russia. US military supplies to the USSR in World War II. 1941-1945
      Professor Robert Han Jones, with the support of the University of Illinois Personal Freedom Committee, which was funded by a grant from Lilly Endowment Inc., prepared a documented, objective analysis of the US Lend-Lease program in Russia during World War II. His work is an exhaustive study of published official and unofficial documentary sources (American, British and Soviet), as well as unpublished documents of individuals and organizations participating in the Lend-Lease program submitted for study. He collected the data and compiled a comprehensive report on why and how Lend-Lease became a reality, who led the program, what routes were delivered, as well as the difficulties that stood in the way of delivering materials to Russia, the volumes of deliveries made under each protocol agreement.

      To understand this help was always timely


      From book:
      In the summer and fall of 1943, the rate of advance of the Red Army doubled compared to any of the previous offensive operations. Soviet mobile units covered an average of 30 — 35 km per day, and even other troops on foot provided advancement on 10 — 25 km. Undoubtedly, the growth of the pace of advancement of the Soviet troops was greatly facilitated by the receipt by the Soviet side of trucks, jeeps and motorcycles until 30 June 1943 148 286.
  3. +6
    1 August 2019 06: 21
    I want to add a little bit about aluminum! Its consumer is not only the Aviaprom, but also, to a greater extent, the famous B2, the main engine of Soviet tanks. If there was anything to replace aluminum in aircraft, even the British in Mosquito, then this is not possible in diesel production!
    1. +4
      1 August 2019 06: 31
      Quote: andrewkor
      then in diesel production this is not at all possible!

      It was the B-2 with its aluminum design that was very different from its counterparts, which instead used cast iron. Well, here the "aviation past" of the B-2 affected. It is worth remembering that this engine was originally created for aviation.
    2. +3
      1 August 2019 08: 37
      "Mosquito" was originally conceived as a solid wood.
  4. -3
    1 August 2019 06: 24
    What did the author want to say with this opus? That the councils are not capable of anything? They are deceitful and inconsistent? With AAHitler they had tricks and did not differ in any way from the Nazis? Completely dependent on the "allies"? A strange impression from the article ...
    1. +5
      1 August 2019 06: 32
      Quote: apro
      What did the author want to say with this opus?

      All and Nothing.
      1. +11
        1 August 2019 07: 36
        somehow
        The sage saw him as a sage,
        Fool - fool,
        Ram - ram
        A sheep was seen in him by a sheep,
        And the monkey is the monkey.
        But Fedya Baratov was brought to him,
        And Fedya saw a shaggy sloven.
        1. +2
          1 August 2019 08: 52
          Quote: novel xnumx
          Somehow
          The sage saw him as a sage,
          Fool - fool,
          Ram - ram
          A sheep was seen in him by a sheep,
          And the monkey is the monkey.
          But Fedya Baratov was brought to him,
          And Fedya saw a shaggy sloven.


          This is a full-length mirror.
    2. +11
      1 August 2019 07: 36
      You said it better!
  5. +6
    1 August 2019 06: 28
    "So the publication of the message of June 11, 1944 pursued the goal of informational influence on the society of the USSR and ... the leadership of Hitlerite Germany. Of course, weariness from war and its hardships began to affect our people, and it was necessary to" please "him" ... As for the war tiredness and for the leadership of Hitlerite Germany, this is most likely the author's speculation. The article is informative, there was really a lot of help. But for ships, for example, I advise you to read the book by Shitikov, Krasnov, Balabin "Shipbuilding in the USSR during the Second World War" (something like this), the tables clearly show that the main deliveries of warships under Lend-Lease fell on the second half of the war, at its end and especially at TF ... on the eve of the war with Japan. But undoubtedly - Lend-Lease made a significant contribution to the Victory cause. Although it is somehow not very decent to put blood in the number of cans of canned food.
    1. +5
      1 August 2019 08: 51
      1.And why ships without the sea?
      2. nomenclature of orders was determined by Soviet representatives
  6. -8
    1 August 2019 06: 39
    Lend-lease supplies are very good, but everything was paid for in gold. So, what any seller in the bazaar is "my benefactor" to whom I owe for the rest of my life? Lend-Lease is an interstate commercial transaction, albeit with some features that benefit both parties. So less reverence for the United States. For these deliveries, the USSR paid for more than 35 years by paying for the economic growth of the US economy (6% of US GDP in 1944-45). So the question of "Western charity" should be closed, they raised it - we paid. You can't “cut coupons” indefinitely.
    1. +12
      1 August 2019 08: 24
      Quote: galan
      Lend-lease supplies are very good, but everything was paid for in gold. So, what any seller in the bazaar is "my benefactor" to whom I owe for the rest of my life? Lend-Lease is an interstate commercial transaction,
      true with some features that benefit both sides.
      So there is less reverence for the United States. For these deliveries, the USSR paid for more than 35 years by paying for the economic growth of the US economy (6% of US GDP in 1944-45). So the question of "Western charity" must be closed, they raised it - we paid. You can't “cut coupons” indefinitely.

      Was everything dirty?
      In gold?
      Do not write nonsense.
      Read the terms of the Lend-Lease.
      Quote: galan
      So there is less reverence for the United States. For these supplies, the USSR calculated over 35 years paying for the economic recovery of the US economy

      fantastic nonsense.
    2. -4
      1 August 2019 08: 24
      In gold? I'm afraid that blood. Lend - lease paid by the blood of our fighters.
      1. +11
        1 August 2019 09: 17
        The errors of visionary leadership and wise generals were paid for by the blood of the people. And Land Lease saved millions of lives of soldiers and civilians.


        Even Stalin would not sign such an agreement on payment of blood. Like a million lives for a million dollars, or how do you imagine it?
      2. +11
        1 August 2019 09: 59
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        I'm afraid that blood. Lend - lease paid by the blood of our fighters.

        Lend-Lease SPAS millions of our lives and brought the end of the war! What is the payment of blood? Surround yourself
        1. -3
          2 August 2019 07: 58
          The war of the USSR with Japan, is it not blood? Thanks, though, they did not force Stalin to fight before the victory over Germany (the United States proposed to do this).
          Then, under the payment of blood, it means that until the 44 of the year, the Allies did not fight with Germany, but supplied the USSR with Lend-Lease so that the USSR would fight in their place.
          1. +3
            2 August 2019 09: 28
            Quote: Stas157
            The war of the USSR with Japan, is it not blood?

            The war of the USSR with Japan is:
            1. Elimination of the potential danger of a large army group of the enemy
            2. Revenge for defeat in 1905
            3. Return of Sakhalin and the capture of the Kuril Islands
            4. Providing Pacific Fleet with a non-freezing port (Port Arthur)
            5. Turning a Neighboring State into an Ally (China)
            Don’t talk about blood. The USSR pursued quite specific goals and more than ensured them.
            Quote: Stas157
            under the payment of blood, meaning that until 44, the Allies did not fight with Germany,

            Who then fought in Africa? And with 1943 and in Italy? Who bombarded German cities with bombs? The allies really had enough of their problems, too.
            And then, the USA fought hard with Japan. Do you think there were just boat trips? You are mistaken. Maybe the dead and less, but the material costs are huge. The fleet is generally a costly thing.
            1. -1
              2 August 2019 09: 42
              Quote: Trapper7
              The war of the USSR with Japan it:

              Stalin's undertaken obligations to the allies, and then "it".

              Quote: Trapper7
              Do not talk about blood. The USSR pursued quite specific goals and more than ensured them.

              And what about the Japanese fought bloodlessly?

              Quote: Trapper7
              Who then fought in Africa? And with 1943 and in Italy?

              You look at the balance of power how many Germans fought there? Compared to the Eastern Front, not war, but war. In reality, the West realized it only in the summer of 44, to the analysis of gifts.
              Dmitry, I don’t understand why you are trying to whitewash the West? Is Akhidzhakova not a relative of you?
              1. +2
                2 August 2019 13: 28
                Quote: Stas157
                Dmitry, I don’t understand why you are trying to whitewash the West? Is Akhidzhakova not a relative of you?

                About how it started. Akhedzhakova was dragged along. No, not a relative. And I do not whitewash the west. I know just as well as you about the dragging out of the second front and all the other "tricks" of our allies. The point is different. Very often two thoughts are discussed:
                - we could win without them
                - we paid for it with blood
                I’m sure we could win without them, but the price of this victory would be even higher. The author of the article showed perfectly what and how much we received. There are a huge number of pictures where our soldiers on American armored personnel carriers roll around Europe. Yes, we can say that this was already from the 43, but does this cancel the help that was provided to us? Or it was better to trample these hundreds of kilometers. on foot?
                And we didn't pay for anything with blood. We saved this blood. Each shot from a cannon on "their" gunpowder, each flight of an aircraft on "their" gasoline is the coast of our soldiers' lives. And we must remember this. And be grateful for that. We had trouble - the enemy came to us. And they helped us. Moreover, it is partially selfless. Not everything was payable. This is what we must remember.
                As well as remembering about the Fultonian speech of Churchill after the war, when we again became enemies.
                And you immediately about Akhedzhakova. Oh you ...
        2. 0
          11 May 2021 00: 18
          The dolphinous lizardmen do not understand this.
  7. -4
    1 August 2019 06: 51
    The end of the epigraph to this article:
    ... And how much they drove us to sheet steel. How could we quickly establish the production of tanks, if not for the American help with steel. And now they present the matter in such a way that we had all of this in abundance. ”
    Karpov V.V. Marshal Zhukov: Opala. M .: Veche, 1994
    Yes really ??? Is it worth it to increase the number of errors, if they are already beyond measure?
    The armor plate is basically ours; very few were delivered under its Lend-Lease.
    1941, 1 of August. In the sheet rolling workshop of the Kuznetsk Metallurgical Plant, the production of tank armor began. The order on measures to fulfill the urgent government task for the production of armor plate was issued 26 June 1941 g. In 1946 g. With the end of the war production of armored plate ceased. 40 of thousands of T-34 tanks, 45 of thousands of IL-2 attack aircraft, 100 of millions of artillery shells were made from Kuznetsk armor.
    Source: https://libnvkz.ru/chitatelyam/o-novokuznetske/1941-1945/chronika
    I have absolutely no reason to consider the above myths and legends, in contrast to the end of the epigraph to the article discussed here.
    1. +8
      1 August 2019 07: 39
      This is not I who said, but Zhukov in an interview ...
      1. -1
        1 August 2019 12: 00
        G.K. said a lot of things .... Depending on the time and ... order .....
      2. -1
        2 August 2019 08: 06
        Quote: kalibr
        This is not I who said, but Zhukov in an interview ...

        Zhukov also said that the supplies of the Western allies amounted to only 4% of the USSR’s GDP. And that, undoubtedly, we would have won this war without supplies, only to do this would be more difficult.
        You reacted very selectively to the statements of Georgy Konstantinovich. In everything there was a bias towards the indispensability of these deliveries. But if they were not there, then it would be possible to supply from other countries, and much would produce themselves.
        1. +1
          2 August 2019 16: 36
          They would have won ... but the losses would have been much greater and the war a couple of years longer .. And this principle is yours - we don’t need anyone, we are all cool, but thank God Stalin didn’t profess it ... or hundreds of thousands, and then millions of deaths would be a plus for so huge losses ..
    2. +4
      1 August 2019 07: 44
      Quote: Herrr
      The armor plate is basically ours; very few were delivered under its Lend-Lease.

      And all the steel supplied went to the production of light tanks T-70 and SAU-76
    3. +2
      1 August 2019 12: 36
      Quote: Herrr
      The armor plate is basically ours

      With ammunition in the first couple of years of the war, everything was very bad. It even came to the decision of the GKO on saving armor rental. Actually, it was the lack of rental that was one of the reasons for the rejection of the T-34 screening - there was nothing. The second problem is the lack of armored steel with a thickness of more than 45 mm. The massive use of cast armor in IPs did not come from a good life.
      1. 0
        1 August 2019 22: 28
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The massive use of cast armor in IP is not from a good life.

        Properly adjusted casting of armor made it possible not only to solve the problem of a shortage of rolled products, but also to reduce the cost and speed up the production of thick-walled parts, as well as to create the same towers of the maximum possible form-resistant form.
        1. +5
          2 August 2019 13: 33
          Quote: svp67
          as well as create the same towers of the highest possible shell-resistant shape

          Yes, cast armor is good at manufacturing parts of complex shape (in the presence of a competent technologist), especially all kinds of double curvature surfaces. But, on the other hand, cast armor loses with katana in terms of projectile resistance - either 45-mm katana, or 50-55 mm cast armor. And the extra millimeters are the extra mass that you need to drag the suspension and transmission of the tank.
          Due to the lower durability of the cast armor compared to the katana and the weight restrictions for the turret and the tank as a whole, our designers had to pervert in every possible way, trying to compensate for the smaller equivalent thickness of the cast turret with forms.
    4. 0
      1 August 2019 13: 18
      You can find out about Lend-Lease steel and the production of armored vehicles from it in the USSR in LJ:
      ... let's look at how much weight these supplies of armor are in the general production of tanks. Of all the sent armor, 5.786t reached the USSR. According to the order of GKOKO No. 3056 of 19.03.1943. The foreign armor plate went for the construction of the T-70 / 80 and SU-12 tanks (also known as SU-76). In 43-44. 12.546 machines of the indicated types were produced. Their production took 63.423t of armor. T.O. the imported armor was 7.8% of the total quantity that went into the production of light BTT. In the general production (medium, heavy, light tanks and self-propelled guns), this figure generally drops to 0.6% of the total armored plate used by the NKTP in 43-44.
      Source: https://hotdoc-71.livejournal.com/19110.html
  8. -6
    1 August 2019 07: 12
    ... no need to look for devils in the censer ...
    Do not look for them in the inkwell?)))
    1. +8
      1 August 2019 07: 39
      Write your own material, "correct"!
      1. +10
        1 August 2019 15: 05
        Quote: kalibr
        Write your own material, "correct"!

        I do not think that you should be offended by criticism. But for the sake of objectivity, I would like to note that having plunged into detailing the supply phenomenon, you initially brought them into an independent event. It would be worth starting with the one who brought Hitler to power, who pushed him to start a war. After all, the WWII showed how beneficial the European armed conflict is to US financial and industrial groups. The Second World War was for the United States a real way out of the crisis, and therefore was initiated by them. The result - after the WWII, the United States became the owner of 75% of the world's gold reserves. When their creature Hitler went out of control, the joint chiefs of staff calculated the time it took Hitler to transfer the fighting to the American continent. He came to a specific figure and was forced to facilitate the supply of military materials to the USSR in order to push these possible deadlines as far as possible. US Army was not ready to fight on its territory. So they supplied us with military materials not from kindness of heart, but exclusively from pragmatic attitudes. There are many interesting books by eyewitnesses and participants in the events of those years, which had unique, including intelligence information. By citing the supply figures, and even comparing them with our production, you completely lose sight of the fact that the Soviet leadership didn’t cover other supplies with other supplies, not because the USSR couldn’t let this out for technical or technological reasons, but because the staff needed to be freed up for mobile events. According to rough estimates, these supplies liberated about one and a half million workers for the troops. This topic is very large and multifaceted. It cannot be described by simple flat comparisons of numbers or characteristics. The size of the article on the resource allows you to show only a schematic diagram without excessive detail. IMHO
        PS About pants with buttons you got excited. In the spacecraft, the underpants did perfectly fine without them, for they were on the ties. (If you are interested) wink
  9. -9
    1 August 2019 07: 21
    Quote: LeonidL
    Although it is somehow not very decent to bring blood into the number of cans of canned food.


    And would the little shavers with the Tan survive if the USSR lost? I doubt it.
    1. +5
      1 August 2019 07: 40
      "Would" is not considered in history! By the way, the USSR lost anyway and disappeared from the historical arena, and Britain is alive and well.
      1. +2
        1 August 2019 09: 51
        The USSR just disappeared from the historical arena much later than the British Empire, from which one and a half islands remained. Yes, formally, the British Empire finally collapsed in the 1997 year, with the transfer of Hong Kong to the PRC, but in fact it was surrendered back in the 1984 year.
        A couple of pictures. The British Empire in 1918:

        And at the time of the collapse of the USSR:
        1. +1
          2 August 2019 16: 53
          What are the British Overseas Territories, the British Commonwealth and what is the percentage of small British companies' ownership of resources and production from the world ones .. if you study this question (not on Wikipedia), you will immediately understand that they have "disintegrated" .. like Putin left for the prime minister ..
        2. 0
          11 May 2021 00: 25
          I agree with you that the British Empire lives much worse than our great people, especially the Siberian in Nerchinsk!
      2. +2
        1 August 2019 10: 00
        Quote: kalibr
        "Would" is not considered in history! By the way, the USSR lost anyway and disappeared from the historical arena, and Britain is alive and well.

        The controversial statement Vyacheslav Olegovich, I will even say extremely close to casuistry ....
        If we compare the USSR and Great Britain of the 1945 model, Britain was larger than the Soviet Union in size. If you compare Russia and the UK today ..... I think by eye with the Perm Territory it can still compete with square meters, but the Yamal-Nenets Autonomous District or the Krasnoyarsk Territory are already incomparable values ​​...
        Not to consider the Russian Federation as a direct receiver of the USSR - this is a distortion of playing cards!
        Regards, Vladislav!
        Something I oppose you today Vyacheslav Olegovich? what
        1. +5
          1 August 2019 12: 13
          Not to consider the Russian Federation as a direct receiver of the USSR - this is a distortion of playing cards!
          That's just considered a direct successor - really juggling.
          Successor - a person or object who has received or acquired from another person or object, in order of succession, any rights, social status or obligations for the continuation of something.
          Continuity is the connection between phenomena in the development process in nature, society and cognition, when the new, replacing the old, retains some of its elements. In society, means the transfer and assimilation of social and cultural values ​​from generation to generation, from formation to formation. It also denotes the totality of the action of traditions.
          Will we compare by points?
          If you compare Russia and the UK today
          If you compare today, then Britain, dodging, instead of breaking up the empire, was able to organize the Commonwealth of Nations, which voluntarily entered Great Britain and almost all of its former dominions, colonies and protectorates. Commonwealth members are also Mozambique, Rwanda, Namibia and Cameroon.
          And what could the Russian Federation organize instead of the USSR?
          Compare.
          1. 0
            11 May 2021 00: 28
            What the Russian Federation was able to organize instead of the USSR is shown by fraternal Ukraine and Georgia!
        2. +1
          1 August 2019 15: 56
          You are wrong, the Queen of Britain is the head of such states as Canada and Australia, and a couple of small ones.
          Although these states are independent.
  10. +8
    1 August 2019 07: 30
    Quote: Dalny V
    Will the author lead at least one such "toast"?

    Could write to you: open the TRUTH and find for yourself. But ... I promise - I will bring it. I'll go back to the archive, take a picture and bring it!
  11. +11
    1 August 2019 07: 35
    Can you imagine the amount of work? Someone too lazy to raise the ass to search for yourself, but I have to plow for months? Or do you personally want to order material for me? Order ... I don’t work for free!
  12. +15
    1 August 2019 07: 38
    Quote: galan
    Lend-lease supplies are very good, but everything was paid for in gold.

    The stupidity of others is amazing! You write them in the eye, but they all ... God's dew!
    1. +10
      1 August 2019 08: 26
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: galan
      Lend-lease supplies are very good, but everything was paid for in gold.

      The stupidity of others is amazing! You write them in the eye, but they all ... God's dew!

      +1000500
      Great article.
      Thanks to the author.
      In general, it seems that many just say thank you (to you as an author) that the United States for their tremendous help is just like a sickle ....
      1. -1
        1 August 2019 09: 14
        Lend-lease is not a gift from the heart.

        In the fall of 1940, legal advisers to the US Treasury Department discovered in the archives a curious law dated 1892, and passed under President Benjamin Harrison. The document contained the following lines: "When, at its discretion, it is in the interests of the state, it can lease the property of the army for a period not exceeding five years, if the country does not need it."
        Less than a year later, on March 11, 1941, the world officially heard about such a concept as "lend-lease", that is, combined into one, two English words: "lend" - to lend and "lease" - to lease.
        1. +13
          1 August 2019 10: 04
          Quote: Minato2020
          Lend-lease is not a gift from the heart.

          And no one was obliged to give us anything from a pure heart. Remind you that we fought for our country and our families? In such a war, even a rusty nail will be glad if it is in place, and here - just a shaft of goods.
          1. -6
            1 August 2019 10: 12
            Quote: Trapper7
            Quote: Minato2020
            Lend-lease is not a gift from the heart.

            And no one was obliged to give us anything from a pure heart. Remind you that we fought for our country and our families? In such a war, even a rusty nail will be glad if it is in place, and here - just a shaft of goods.


            It is necessary to remind, and not only on holidays, that they fought for their country and their families.
            But it’s not worth turning a blind eye, that for the United States everything looked different and the task for them was as follows:

            1. To nourish the warring parties in such a way that the fighting would have a protracted exhausting character for both sides.
            2. To bring a situation similar to the one that happened in 1917-18 in Europe and Russia, when the state formations of the leading countries of Europe, as well as Russia, were destroyed as a result of the First World War.
            3. Warm up your hands economically and politically on the result during the war and its consequences and not repeat the mistake in relation to Russia, meaning the formation of the sovereign and independent Stalinist USSR in the thirties, I emphasize the "Stalinist" one, in a number of leading world powers.

            32nd President of the United States F. Roosevelt (March 1933 - April 1945): "Helping Russians is money well spent"
            33rd President: G. Truman (April 1945 - January 1953): "If we see that Germany is winning, we must help Russia, and if Russia wins, we must help Germany, and let them, so way, kill each other as much as possible "
            There is nothing more to add about "disinterested" help from allies!
            The Americans have never done anything for nothing, they are not doing it now and will not do it in the future.

            PS By the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, the Amtorg company, established in 1924 in New York, was operating in the USA. Part of the deliveries made before October 1, 1941 were made not under Lend-Lease, but on a loan to the Treasury through this company.
            1. +1
              1 August 2019 13: 17
              Quote: Minato2020
              PS By the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, the Amtorg company, established in 1924 in New York, was operating in the USA. Part of the deliveries made before October 1, 1941 were made not under Lend-Lease, but on a loan to the Treasury through this company.

              Everything is absolutely true, it was just that. Moreover, the author of the article makes very dubious statements that are easily refuted:
              Nevertheless, please note that the "Message ..." indicates the following dates for the start of deliveries: from the UK - "From 22 of June 1941 of the year to 30 of April of the 1944 of the".

              And here are the newspaper’s messages, if F. Golikov in his memoirs described in great detail the whole mechanism of negotiations in the UK and the USA, as well as the problems that arose in these negotiations:
              On July 8 1941 of the year, on the day of our arrival in London, the Prime Minister of Great Britain W. Churchill, in a personal message to I.V. He wrote to Stalin: “We welcome the arrival of the Russian military mission in order to coordinate future plans.” “We will do our best to help you.” True, the caveat immediately followed: “As time, geographical conditions and our growing resources allow” 185.
              ..... However, the results of our first visit to England were more than modest. Only on 20 of July did the British admiralty send the Adventure mine layer to the Soviet Union, loading deep bombs, magnetic mines, parachutes, incendiary plates and some other military materials onto it. In these alarming days, very difficult for the Soviet country, from a military mission in London, reports continued to arrive in Moscow that the supply of arms and other military materials to the Soviet Union was very tight, practical solutions to all kinds of slingshots and obstacles posed the British.

              Philip Golikov "Notes of the head of Intelligence."
              I think that it would be advisable for the author of the article to read this book so that some enthusiasm about the numbers fades slightly, if only because the Lend-Lease Act itself was needed primarily by the American companies themselves, since it allowed to remove budgetary restrictions on financing arms production , and also lifted restrictions on the issue of securities of the US government, going to cover Lend-Lease.
              So it is still unknown who needed a lease-lease more to boost their economy ...
            2. 0
              1 August 2019 20: 23
              $ Military spending at 1945 prices of the year:

              US 341 billion
              Germany 272 billion
              USSR 192 billion
              Italy 94 billion
              Japan 56 billion

              https://tass.ru/spec/wwii
            3. +2
              2 August 2019 08: 27
              Quote: Minato2020
              But do not even turn a blind eye, that for the USA everything looked different and the task for them seemed to be the following

              It's nice to meet people on the resource who know and understand the essence of the events that have taken place. Unfortunately, most of the "commentators" do not go beyond the headlines of the tabloid press, therefore there are a lot of minuses. This is not that depressing, but once again demonstrates the prosaic reality - large groups of the population of Russia (other countries are most likely the same, only I don’t know them) do not want to think, to strain in thinking. I think this is neither good nor bad, it just is and it will not be otherwise.
              1. +1
                2 August 2019 16: 58
                And so important is how it looked for the USA? The article discusses how it looked for the USSR, but about how for the USA it is necessary to write another article
                1. +1
                  3 August 2019 05: 18
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  And so important is how it looked for the USA?

                  Beads were also interesting to the Indians. But today, there is a situation that was considered by the Europeans, who exchanged these beads for incommensurable objects. So here too, the USSR was at risk of being the object of other people's games, and today we need to understand who tried to play us and how. And if you only have enough to carry out someone else's "smile and wave," then you are not a subject in these games.
            4. 0
              11 May 2021 00: 30
              You have shown again that the Americans know how to work and, unlike our rulers, work for their people.
          2. +1
            1 August 2019 20: 58
            Quote: Trapper7
            In such a war, even a rusty nail will be glad if it is in place, and here - just a shaft of goods.

            There is a trifle left. The person who financed the main villain of this war and the person who provided "help" have the same name. Interesting?
      2. +6
        1 August 2019 09: 22
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: galan
        Lend-lease supplies are very good, but everything was paid for in gold.

        The stupidity of others is amazing! You write them in the eye, but they all ... God's dew!

        +1000500
        Great article.
        Thanks to the author.
        In general, it seems that many just say thank you (to you as an author) that the United States for their tremendous help is just like a sickle ....

        This means admitting your own sin, stupidity, or wrong. Who will be delighted? Easier to deny
    2. +4
      1 August 2019 21: 03
      Quote: kalibr
      The stupidity of others is amazing! You write them in the eye, but they all ... God's dew!

      Read the classics. Stop being amazed at human diversity. They have said a lot about this a long time ago. Like a Pekingese, he will not become a shepherd. And this does not surprise anyone ... Strange, huh?
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. +4
    1 August 2019 07: 53
    Quote: svp67
    and SPG-76

    The main sau war!
    1. +7
      1 August 2019 07: 56
      Quote: kalibr
      The main sau war!

      Yes, and imported armor steel, 7,8% of the total volume spent on the production of light armored vehicles went for it, and of the total volume it is 0,8%
  15. +5
    1 August 2019 08: 33
    "They stopped scolding Nazi Germany after the pact - yes. But no one kissed her gums either."
    In the "gums", of course, no one kissed Germany, but the strategic materials necessary for Hitler to wage war in the West were sent a lot.
    1. +2
      1 August 2019 09: 30
      ... sent a lot.

      Maybe they were selling? Or just kindly shared it out of kindness?
      1. +3
        1 August 2019 09: 46
        Of course they were selling! And for the proceeds, they bought all kinds of machine tools and equipment for factories, mines, and mines there. They even bought an unfinished heavy cruiser of the Admiral Hipper type, which, however, they could not finish building.
        1. +2
          1 August 2019 09: 49
          Then try to write, as it was in fact - they sold!
          And then they sent - you can turn it in any direction! hi
  16. +5
    1 August 2019 08: 52
    Dear, let's not be biased by the author of the article, the theme of Lend-Lease is huge, if not to say, immense. And I think that for a very long years to be discussed. A lot of things are stored in the archives of the floor with a signature stamp. I myself am keenly interested in this topic and the most complete that I found is a book by N.I. Ryzhkov, who was once before. Council of Ministers of the USSR.

    Ryzhkov N.I.
    "Great Patriotic War: Lend-Lease"
    M .: Publishing house "Economic newspaper", 2012.

    I ordered it on the Internet on the Labyrinth website. Indeed, very interesting, I recommend it to everyone.
  17. -8
    1 August 2019 09: 13
    "And now they present it in such a way that we had it all in abundance."
    Karpov V.V. Marshal Zhukov: Opala. M .: Veche, 1994

    Who is it - school books? University benefits?

    For those who want to familiarize themselves in all details with the history of Lend-Lease - with all the dates, figures and testimonies of the Russian participants of the war, we can recommend the book: Our Life by Saver Weeks, Lexington Books, New York, 2004.

    Are there any books about Lend-Lease in Russian?

    Surprisingly, many readers of “VO” do not see at all what is written in the text before their eyes, and the official text. With foam at the mouth - you can’t say otherwise, they claim that ... help came to us only at the end of the war, but at the beginning it was not. But is it?

    Yes, Ukrainians of the day can not live, so as not to remind about the Lend-Lease. All ears buzzed!
    https://naturalist.livejournal.com/166309.html
  18. +3
    1 August 2019 09: 38
    But Mongolian horses and not only you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, have offended in vain!
    Motors, motors, but they also had to carry guns and carts with sleds loaded with military equipment and provisions! And the cavalry attacks to carry on their backs!
    And they did their job for all 100% of horsepower!
    1. 0
      1 August 2019 11: 03
      Good horses, sorry for the money only. It is a pity that they had to pay for them right during the war. It’s a pity that they weren’t delivered to 41 - probably waiting? And so good horses
      1. +1
        1 August 2019 11: 26
        Horse supplies from Mongolia began in March 1942!
        In June 1941 of the year, the Red Army had at its disposal 17,5 million horses, by September 1942 of the year there were 9 million of them left, and this included young animals, that is, horses that were not capable of "service" due to age.
        As a result, Mongolia delivered 485 thousand horses to the Soviet Union, 32 thousands of Mongolian horses were handed over to the USSR as gifts by Mongolian peasants-arats.
        32 thousands of gifted horses is a lot!
        On January 16 of 1942, a fundraising campaign was announced in Mongolia to acquire tanks for a tank convoy.
        2,5 million Tugriks, 100 thousand US dollars, 300 kg were transferred from Mongolia to Vneshtorgbank. gold items.
        With the funds raised, 32 of the T-34 tank and 21 of the T-70 tank were purchased.

        The MPR did not have, and there is no economy comparable to the US economy. What was then sold or given!
        1. 0
          1 August 2019 14: 27
          They preferred to sell, and they are best friends and saviors. Despite the fact that the Soviet Union wrote off all their debts in the millions.
          The Yankees gave an order of magnitude more, but almost nothing was in vain, and they were enemies and profited from us. No.
          1. +1
            1 August 2019 14: 41
            Do not enlighten how much they sold and in what currency did the calculations go?
            1. 0
              1 August 2019 15: 36
              Quote: hohol95
              Do not enlighten how much they sold and in what currency did the calculations go?

              in tugriks, of course, they are not the ones to alloy the last. From 200 to 1000 tugriks per stretch. Basically, due to the cancellation of the Mongolian debt: they are our horse, we are mine, they are our sheepskin coat, we are their factory, they are meat to us, we are dear to them and bridges, they are mittens to us, we are their weapons
              1. +2
                1 August 2019 15: 45
                Only everything that you listed (except weapons) the MPR received BEFORE the war and after it!
                Also supplies of TUNGSTEN from MPR are forgotten!
                They got tungsten, they got wool - loans were paid off!
                The British also gave us loans for the purchase of weapons and materials - 10 million pounds (3% per annum) for a period of 5 years. More scared to give in 1941 year!
                Mongolian wool supplied us more than the United States.
                What they had was delivered. If there was sugarcane - they would supply sugar.
                1. -2
                  1 August 2019 16: 03
                  you are mistaken: debts have not been repaid - time! deliveries to Mongolia of all of the above continued during the war - two!
                  1. +1
                    1 August 2019 16: 06
                    The USSR and the Russian Federation forgave many debts!
                    I will not say anything about deliveries to the MPR in 1941 - 1945. He wrote his personal opinion. Perhaps they supplied them with goods and equipment. Weapons were definitely supplied.
                    1. -2
                      1 August 2019 16: 11
                      yes there were so many supplies that another five years of such paid friendship during the war, and the country would have extended its legs
                      1. +3
                        1 August 2019 16: 21
                        Only here, the MPR almost died out of starvation - everyone was raked for shipment to the USSR!
                        During the war, Mongolia with a population of less than one million people delivered to the USSR 700 thousand heads of cattle and almost 5 million heads of small cattle. The meat processing plant (apparently the one in Biysk) processed 2 thousands of cattle every day. The Biysk stew, known on all fronts, was actually made from Mongolian raw materials!
                        In total, the poor country of Mongolia supplied 0,5 million tons of meat, while the United States, whose population and financial capabilities exceeded the MPR capabilities by hundreds of times, delivered only a little more for gold - about 0,65 million tons of canned food (weight including cans).
                        As a result, in the winter of 1944, hunger began in Mongolia.
                      2. -3
                        1 August 2019 16: 55
                        You will not believe it, but famine also began in the USSR. The land lease has stopped, the economy has been destroyed, the army of 11mln is hungry. And as luck would have it, there is not enough grain and flour that the same caravans exported to Mongolia that brought meat
                      3. +2
                        1 August 2019 17: 02
                        Wasn’t there a famine under Lend-Lease? Did everyone have everything?
                        Hunger escalated in the liberated territories! In Europe, famine also happened.
                        But all, except for the USSR and the countries of Eastern Europe "occupied" by it, were saved by the Marshal Plan!
                        But the Russians themselves are to blame - they abandoned this plan!
                      4. -3
                        1 August 2019 17: 38
                        and without land lease hunger would not be?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  19. +2
    1 August 2019 09: 42
    Quote: Minato2020
    Who is it - school books? University benefits?

    This is to Zhukov, if that is not clear!
    1. -3
      1 August 2019 11: 44
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Minato2020
      Who is it - school books? University benefits?

      This is to Zhukov, if that is not clear!


      To the very Zhukov whom N. Khrushchev exiled away?
      https://topwar.ru/1657-za-chto-stalin-snyal-s-dolzhnosti-marshala-pobedy-zhukova-dokumenty.html#comment-id-4460448
  20. +2
    1 August 2019 09: 44
    Some of our “informed” readers are very fond of writing in the comments about the Mongolian horses and camels that came to Berlin, and also about the so-called “reverse Lend-Lease”. But horses cannot be harnessed to Katyusha!


    I want to write on behalf of knowledgeable readersthat the Mongols did not provide the USSR with horses and camels under Lend-Lease. Like this! And by the way, you can't harness a horse to "Katyusha" - that's also true.

    "On June 22, 1941, a joint resolution was adopted by the Presidium of the Small Khural, the Council of Ministers of Mongolia and the Presidium of the Central Committee of the MPRP, which expressed support for the Soviet Union. Economic assistance from Mongolia consisted in the transfer of funds, winter clothing, food, livestock, and the purchase of a tank column and squadrons.

    In Mongolia, an aid fund was created for the Soviet army. In October 1941, residents of Mongolia sent a train with gifts from 15 thousand sets of winter uniforms, about 3 thousand parcels worth more than 1,8 million tugriks. 587 thousand tugriks were transferred to the State Bank of the USSR in cash. By April 1943 of the year, 8 trains with food and clothing worth more than 25,3 million Tugriks were sent from Mongolia. At the beginning of 1945, a train of gifts from 127 wagons was sent.

    16 January 1942 began raising funds for the purchase of tanks for the tank column "Revolutionary Mongolia." The inhabitants of Mongolia transferred 2,5 million Tugriks, 100 thousand US dollars and 300 kg of gold to Vneshtorgbank. By the end of the 1942 year, the 53 tanks (32 T-34 and 21 T-70) were delivered to the Naro-Fominsk region of the Moscow Region. On January 12 of 1943, a Mongol delegation arrived in the USSR led by Marshal Khorlogiy Choybalsan, who handed over the tanks to the 112 Red Banner Tank Brigade.

    In 1943, a fundraiser was organized for the purchase of a squadron of Mongolian Arat aircraft. In July 1943, 2 million tugriks were transferred to the account of the USSR People's Commissariat of Finance. On August 18, Stalin expressed gratitude to Mongolia. On September 25, 1943, the squadron was transferred to the 2nd Guards Regiment of the 322nd Fighter Aviation Division at the Vyazovaya station of the Smolensk Region. As part of the squadron, Heroes of the Soviet Union N.P. Pushkin (First squadron commander), A. I. Mayorov, M. E. Ryabtsev. Mongolia also took over the clothing and food supply of the tank column and squadron until the end of the war.

    In March 1942, the Mongolian authorities adopted a decree on the purchase of horses at specially established state prices. During the war, more than 500 thousand horses were delivered from Mongolia to the USSR. The war veterans noted the unpretentiousness and endurance of the Mongolian horses: “At first we thought that such small horses would not take away soldiers with full equipment ... Having passed the difficult military roads on Mongolian horses, we made sure that they are strong, do not know fatigue and are unpretentious in food. .. "
  21. +2
    1 August 2019 09: 45
    Where does it say "gift"? Open the TRUTH there everything is written in black and white ... But ... for some% and a gift, and ordered.
  22. +1
    1 August 2019 09: 45
    Excellent article!
    It shows very well how much the newspaper, even Pravda, and perhaps especially Pravda, is a specific historical source.
    I recall an article about Panfilov’s when an article in a newspaper gave rise to a legend that does not coincide with the real situation on the battlefield, and today serious battles are developing around these events.
  23. +3
    1 August 2019 09: 51
    Great! Thank!
  24. -1
    1 August 2019 09: 54
    Quote: hohol95
    Motors, motors, but they also had to carry guns and carts with sleds loaded with military equipment and provisions! And the cavalry attacks to carry on their backs!
    And they did their job for all 100% of horsepower!

    Yes, of course, it was they who stopped the "Tigers", and the cavalrymen - with their sabers bare!
    1. +5
      1 August 2019 10: 06
      Vyacheslav Olegovich! You don't be so "naughty"!
      Not only "Tigers", but all the other "armored BEasts" and "not beasts Pz.III, Pz.IV" were stopped by the calculations of guns transported by HORSES as well!
      1. -1
        1 August 2019 14: 30
        With the loss of 9 million horses, 450t s. the sold conjugates will not solve this problem, but free cars, armored personnel carriers and fuel will solve it.
        1. +2
          1 August 2019 14: 45
          FREE CHEESE ... you know where!
          And the Marshap Plan is proof of this.
          1. -1
            1 August 2019 15: 12
            What kind of sovkovsky manner in the discussion of one insert another? You also mention that in the USA blacks were hanged ...
            1. -1
              1 August 2019 15: 30
              Then there is no need to declare that EVERYTHING was FREE!
              Then the "cheese" with the plan will not be remembered!
              On August 16, 1941, an agreement was signed between Great Britain and the USSR on the provision of the USSR a loan of 10 million pounds (3% per annum) for a period of 5 years. Around the same time, the US State Department announced the extension of the one-year trade agreement in force since 1937 between the USSR and the USA.

              So started! Then, of course, the USSR was introduced into the Lend-Lease program. But after the war ends
              An agreement with the USSR on the procedure for paying off debts under Lend-Lease was concluded only in 1972. Under this agreement, the USSR pledged to pay $ 2001 million, including interest, until 722. By July 1973, three payments were made in the total amount of $ 48 million, after which payments were discontinued due to the introduction of discriminatory measures by the American side in trade with the USSR (Jackson-Vanik amendment). In June 1990, during negotiations between the US and USSR presidents, the parties returned to discussing this issue. A new deadline for the final repayment of debt was established - 2030 - and the amount - 674 million dollars.
              After the collapse of the USSR, the debt for help was reissued to Russia; as of 2003, Russia owed approximately 100 million US dollars.

              You have not heard - has Russia paid off these debts?
              1. +1
                1 August 2019 15: 42
                Have you definitely read the article?
                1. +1
                  1 August 2019 15: 47
                  Point out what my blind eye could miss in the fine text!
                  1. +2
                    1 August 2019 16: 00
                    Quote: hohol95
                    Then there is no need to declare that EVERYTHING was FREE!

                    the author did not state this
                    1. +3
                      1 August 2019 16: 02
                      With the loss of 9 million horses, 450t s. sold pairings will not solve this problem, but Free cars, armored personnel carriers and fuel will decide.

                      Your comment?
                      1. -2
                        1 August 2019 16: 10
                        my. It says "ALL free cars ..." or
                        "free cars ... will decide" ???
                      2. +2
                        1 August 2019 16: 15
                        Then I’ll ask you - did the Russian Federation pay the USA for Lend-Lease?
                        100 million given?
                      3. -2
                        1 August 2019 17: 00
                        Paid, paid. Interest for 6. Excluding the fact that the dollar fell 13 times. In short, in the calculation: half a percent will run up, and that's enough from them. Thank you can not say.
                        That's the thing the Mongols!
                      4. +5
                        1 August 2019 17: 10
                        Personally, I THANK the American woman who worked at the plant for the production of STEWS, and the Mongolian arat who handed over or "sold" their horses and goats for the needs of the USSR!
                        I will say THANK YOU to the American pilot from Alsib and the British sailor of the Northern convoys! Iranian chauffeurs and road workers who helped in the "Persian Corridor"!
                        To their Far Eastern sailors, who were detained by the Japanese. They had to go through a lot to deliver goods to Vladivostok. Lost 14 ships!
                        But I don’t intend to show such respect to foreign politicians (we will figure it out ourselves).
                        Their efforts and the world burned in the fire of the Second World War!
        2. +1
          1 August 2019 15: 39
          Where could you get even 500 thousand horses - quickly and cheaply?
          In Argentina, Australia or the United States itself? And deliver without big losses?
          So what did the USSR pay for horses?
          1. 0
            1 August 2019 15: 47
            above answered you
            1. +1
              1 August 2019 15: 49
              Was reading!
              But where could the "Soviet Gypsy" get horses quickly in a global world war?
              1. 0
                1 August 2019 15: 54
                and what for goat button accordion? Losses for six months 9 mln. horses! Mongols sell for 100 thousand. per year + new annual losses in millions. How far will the army go on such a "Lend-Lease"? Even if we consider that 19 out of 20 new horses will be Soviet?
                1. +2
                  1 August 2019 16: 00
                  and what for goat button accordion?

                  If you bought it, then you needed it with "button accordions and with accordions and accordions".
                  Or in the Red Army, all artillery and rear services were provided with cars at 100%?

                  And in case of problems with food - meat! No one will chew the truck.
                  1. 0
                    1 August 2019 16: 07
                    The meat? Order in America another million tons of meat, sugar, butter, even pizza with grated horseradish - they will bring it for free!
                    All this friendship with Mongolia was needed for another reason, and it was not at all about horses and meat. Because they did not spare money, and weapons, factories, and debts were forgiven
                    1. +1
                      1 August 2019 16: 13
                      Where did you get that for FREE ...
                      1. 0
                        1 August 2019 16: 37
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Where did you get that for FREE ...

                        From the terms of the agreement on LL. Consumable product
                    2. +1
                      1 August 2019 16: 36
                      Order in America another million tons of meat, sugar, butter, even pizza with grated horseradish - they will bring it for free!

                      And the Americans themselves, what to eat? Or did their food plants operate at 25% of their capacity? They did not have to feed their army? And the British did not request food? And the United States’s ships are simply unmeasured ...
                      How simple it is - HAVE ORDERED AND HOP - already brought: salt, sugar, grain, meat, chocolate!
                      Sushi, rolls, pizza ... - free delivery ...
                      1. -2
                        1 August 2019 17: 45
                        ships are not a problem for them. here is the rural household - yes! Farmers in the cities also went to the front, but I want to eat. Therefore, a third of agricultural food was produced by prisoners of war, and they didn’t starve. So 500 thousand. neither the army nor the country will be fed Mongolian horses, and they will not be taken to Berlin
  25. +3
    1 August 2019 09: 55
    Quote: Minato2020
    Are there any books about Lend-Lease in Russian?

    Can I type in a search engine and find out? Or is the dream of a saucer with a blue border in us indestructible?
  26. -2
    1 August 2019 10: 09
    Quote: Olgovich
    then just shot 558 + 295 = 853 tons

    I've always had a bad math. But in my opinion there should not be added, but taken away!
    1. 0
      1 August 2019 13: 02
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Olgovich
      then just shot 558 + 295 = 853 tons

      I've always had a bad math. But in my opinion it’s not necessary to add, but take away!

      Didn’t something shoot?

      Fired and our gunpowder (558 thousand tons). and Lendlizovsky (295 thousand tons). Total used - 853 thousand tons.
      Lendlizovsky is: 295/853 * 100 = 34%, i.e. not half and a third from used in WWII hi
      1. +3
        1 August 2019 13: 39
        Olgovich (Andrey) A third of the total, but more than half of ours!
        1. 0
          1 August 2019 18: 45
          Produced and delivered ... everything is clear here as twice two, and what were our reserves until June 22, 1941? If they are not taken into account, the picture is not quite right .. and the math ..
        2. 0
          2 August 2019 08: 59
          Quote: kalibr
          Olgovich (Andrey) A third of the total, but more than half of ours!

          quite right!

          Those. not every second, but every third shot, on foreign powder. hi
  27. +2
    1 August 2019 10: 18
    Latin America in World War II. Little-known pages of history
    2015-05-08 Dmitry Korolev
    The help committees of the USSR were created, which supported our country not only in word, but also in concrete deed. So, in Argentina there were about 70 such committees that sewed clothes for our soldiers and made 55 thousand pairs of boots for Red Army soldiers. The miners of the salt and copper mines of Chile came up with the initiative to work overtime, and transfer the money earned in this way to the assistance fund to the Soviet Union.
    In 1942, the Cubans collected 110 tons of aid for the Red Army, including sugar, condensed milk, tobacco, soap and so on. Mexican women collected gifts for Soviet women and children.

    I do not think that this assistance went along the lines of Lend-Lease.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. 0
    1 August 2019 10: 24
    An example of free aid from ordinary Cubans -
    In December 1941, Cuba, following the United States, declared war on Germany. It was then that the popular movement of solidarity with the Soviet Union against fascist aggression was launched under the leadership of the Communist Party of Cuba; and the following fact of Cuba’s assistance to the Land of Soviets, cited by Gustavo Alderegia, dates back to April 1942.
    Here is what the author writes: “Although Cuba, through the fault of its despicable lackey rulers, rotated in the orbit of American imperialism, its people sympathized and understood the Soviet system, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Lenin revolution and the whole great people of Russia. This ardent sympathy resulted in material assistance, in which I took direct and active part more than once. I personally handed over a check for ten thousand dollars to the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR Maxim Litvinov at the Nacional Hotel " [1, p. thirteen].
    We note the fact that the monetary assistance described above in April 1942 of the Red Army, in which, as it was established, three Cuban internationalists fought * [3, p. 3]
    -------------------------------------------
    NOTE. Aldo and Jorge Vivo and Enrique Vilar. Two of them died in heavy fighting: Aldo Vivo near Leningrad, Enrique Vilar - during the liberation of Poland.
  30. +2
    1 August 2019 11: 12
    During the war, when US assistance came to the USSR in a wide flow, some American officials perceived the insufficient coverage of this fact in the Soviet press with resentment. The first public scandal over the recognition of the importance of Lend-Lease occurred in 1943. He was provoked by the US ambassador to the USSR, Admiral William Stendley, who believed that the help of the American people was not appreciated by representatives of the Soviet government, regarding this as a clear manifestation of ingratitude.
    The American ambassador began to look for evidence confirming the fact of receiving American assistance in newspapers and magazines; in addition, he asked Soviet citizens about this. Desperate to find appreciation for the Lend-Lease assistance expressed publicly by Soviet officials, Stendley convened a press conference on March 8, 1943 at the US Embassy in Moscow and attacked the Soviet representatives with angry rebukes.

    However, I. Stalin did not deny the significance of Lend-Lease deliveries.
    In 1946, the book "As He Saw It" (As He Saw It) was published in the United States, the author of which was the late Franklin Roosevelt's son Elliot, who attended the most important international meetings of the leaders of the great powers with his father. In his memoirs, Elliot Roosevelt devoted an entire chapter to the story of the Tehran Conference, based on his own eyewitness memories, as well as the stories and notes of his father.
    This was probably the first publication of how Stalin uttered his famous toast on Churchill's birthday.

    "... Then the moment came when the gods of friendliness and fun fell asleep, and then General Sir Alan Brooke got up and began to spread the theme that the English people suffered in this war more than all others, lost more, fought more and more I did for victory. ”A shadow of irritation passed over Stalin’s face, and perhaps that was what prompted him to get up almost immediately and make a toast.
    - I want to tell you what, from the Soviet point of view, the President and the United States did for the victory. The most important things in this war are cars. The United States has proven that it can produce between 8 and 10 aircraft a month. England produces 3 aircraft a month, mainly heavy bombers. Therefore, the United States is a land of machines. Without these cars, supplied under Lend-Lease, we would have lost this war. For this I want to raise my toast ... "

    Stalin spoke about the significance of Lend-Lease once again, but already at the Yalta Conference - during a half-hour official conversation with Franklin Roosevelt on February 8, 1945.
    "Lend-Lease, this new invention of the Americans, played a big role in this war. Previously, the Allies were offended to receive subsidies, but now they are not offended to receive weapons under Lend-Lease. If it were not for Lend-Lease, then victory would be very difficult." ...

    After the end of World War II, former allies in the anti-Hitler coalition became enemies in the Cold War. This led to real battles on the propaganda front, where they tried to rewrite history to suit their interests, downplaying each other's role in the victory over Hitler.
    The question of the meaning of Lend-Lease was one of the most acute. In the USSR, a historical propaganda campaign was launched, the purpose of which was to deprive the significance of American aid to the Soviet ally during the Great Patriotic War. Already in 1947, the work of the First Deputy Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR N. Voznesensky was published under the title "The Military Economy of the USSR during the Patriotic War", in which the author described the help of the allies as of little importance. Subsequently, these "only about 4%" became the main characteristic of Lend-Lease in Soviet historical works.
    Against this background, the publication of Stalin's words that without Lend-Lease "We would LOSE the war" would go against the accepted installation and therefore did not advertise.
    1. +3
      1 August 2019 15: 21
      Quote: Minato2020
      Without these Lend-Lease vehicles, we would lose this war


      Another translation: "These Lend-Lease vehicles help us win the war." (https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=23662&p=39).
      I wonder how the original? wink
      1. 0
        1 August 2019 15: 28
        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
        Quote: Minato2020
        Without these Lend-Lease vehicles, we would lose this war

        Another translation: "These Lend-Lease vehicles help us win the war." (https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=23662&p=39).
        I wonder how the original? wink


        These different translation options have the right to life, because the conversation was in different languages. Stalin most likely spoke Russian with his accent.
        1. +1
          1 August 2019 15: 55
          The conversation was in different languages, but that is why the translators exist in order to accurately convey what was said. Would “lose” and “help win” - is that the same as “How did he see it” and “Through His eyes”?

          I ask: is he, Roosevelt, in the book how he quoted Stalin?
          1. +1
            1 August 2019 18: 33
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            The conversation was in different languages, but that is why the translators exist in order to accurately convey what was said. Would “lose” and “help win” - is that the same as “How did he see it” and “Through His eyes”?
            I ask: is he, Roosevelt, in the book how he quoted Stalin?


            From the book -
            In 1946, the book “As He Saw It” was published in the United States, authored by the son of the late Franklin Roosevelt Elliot.

            In the Russian-language edition of 1947, this moment is stated as follows:
            "... Perhaps that is what prompted him to get up almost immediately and make a toast.
            - I want to tell you what, from the Soviet point of view, the president and the United States did for victory. The main thing in this war is cars. The United States has proven that they can produce from 8 to 10 thousand aircraft per month. England produces every month 3 thousand aircraft, mainly heavy bombers. Consequently, the United States is a country of machines. These Lend-Lease Cars help us win the war".


            However, when comparing the translation with the original text, you can find a significant difference in the presentation of the last sentence of Stalin's toast, which fundamentally changes the essence of what was said:

            "I want to tell you, from the Soviet point of view, what the President and United States have done to win the war. The most important things in this war are machines. The United States has proven that it can turn out from eight to ten thousand airplanes a month. England turns out three thousand a month, principally heavy bombers. The United States, therefore, is a country of machines. Without the use of those machines, through Lend-Lease, we would lose this war».
            https://warspot.ru/10639-tost-za-lend-liz

            In addition to the foregoing addition -
            https://itexts.net/avtor-elliot-ruzvelt/25254-ego-glazami-elliot-ruzvelt/read/page-11.html
            https://pn64.livejournal.com/92764.html

            If the transcript was not kept, then inevitably there will be "translation difficulties", especially if it is a translation of a book that was not published in the USSR in English.
  31. 0
    1 August 2019 11: 36
    "That is, the importance of Lend-Lease is also in the fact that our Soviet citizens got acquainted with Western technology in large numbers, flew on their planes, worked with their radars, radio direction finders, radio stations and other devices, worked on imported modern machine tools and industrial equipment And they saw that all this, it turns out, could be done ... without the "achievements of socialism", or rather, these achievements themselves are still quite far from this technique ... "


    It was in the USSR, what became in the Russian Federation?
    Citizens of the Russian Federation got acquainted with Western technology in large numbers, flew on their planes, studied other devices in everyday life, worked on imported modern machine tools and industrial equipment. And they saw that all this could, it turns out, be done ... without the "achievements of socialism", or rather these achievements themselves, are still quite far from this technique.
    And now all this in the Russian Federation without any tension - equipment and machine tools, household appliances and electronics, aircraft and ships - is bought without tension abroad.
    That's the only difference.
  32. -1
    1 August 2019 11: 49
    Do you need them to take off their last shirt? I would not give anything to my potential enemies. Sami brewed porridge - that’s how you dissolve yourself!
    1. 0
      1 August 2019 13: 28
      Quote: kalibr
      Do you need them to take off their last shirt? I would not give anything to my potential enemies.

      But Stalin took and donated our weapons and equipment in 1941 to the Anders army, which helped Britain fight in Africa, and for this reason no one wants to bill the British. We are somehow bashfully silent about this, but in 1941 it would be very useful for us near Moscow.
  33. +3
    1 August 2019 11: 54
    And then George Orwell will write about this in his novel 1984: “Oceania has always fought with Eurasia!”

    Hehehehe ... actually, Orwell as Miniprave brought out his native Air Force, in which he worked and knew the whole kitchen from the inside. smile
    However, he wrote Angsoc from nature - this was a logical development of the policy of Attlee’s cabinet with its mass nationalization, State Planning Commission, state control of private enterprises and the nationalization of private industries if the state commission established the fact of ineffective management by the owner or non-compliance with state plans.
  34. +1
    1 August 2019 11: 58
    Quote: hohol95
    There were accidents, sabotage, gang raids. Many of our graves remained on that path. The Iranians and Arabs who helped us were also killed. The Western allies were not without sacrifice. ”

    Then what is it about? What are you trying to prove? The circumstances were such, that’s what ...
  35. +6
    1 August 2019 11: 59
    Quote: hohol95
    I do not think that this assistance went along the lines of Lend-Lease.

    Right! But the help from England, gathered by the women of Britain, was also not going along the lines of Lend-Lease. Churchill's wife was engaged in its organization.
  36. -2
    1 August 2019 12: 04
    Copper supplied 76%. But copper is precisely the very bullets with which the soldiers of the Red Army killed the Wehrmacht soldiers.


    Gunpowder is for defeating the Wehrmacht soldiers with copper bullets, and airplanes is for killing Wehrmacht soldiers with copper bullets ...
    ... steel is for the shovels with which to bury the Wehrmacht soldier ...
    (Do not show it to Merkel)))
  37. +1
    1 August 2019 12: 04
    You can’t put a scarf on someone else’s mouth! There are so many connoisseurs here, fritters, - that without you, Kote pane Kohanka (Vladislav) Today, 10: 00,
    there is someone to tolerate condemn the situation. Already one accusation of Russophobia has followed, what else will be?
    1. +3
      1 August 2019 12: 15
      what else will be?
      ,, on the fire recourse ? laughing
  38. +4
    1 August 2019 12: 12
    As for the “return deliveries,” then ...

    ,,,On September 1, in the White House, Umansky met with Roosevelt. Umansky informed the president that in order to pay for its most important orders, Russia needs 140 million dollars, but Amtorg does not have that kind of money. Roosevelt again spoke of the political difficulties in obtaining large loans. At the same time, he assured Umansky that the most urgent Soviet orders would be executed and paid for by barter. The next day, at the suggestion of Hopkins, the president instructed Jones to purchase manganese, chromite, asbestos, platinum and other materials in Amtorg for up to 100 million dollars, as well as to pay an advance in the amount of 50 million dollars for these purchases to Amtorg. The agreement was quickly signed, and the Soviet side respected it with all scrupulousness.

    ,,,Caravans traveling back were designated QP. On the way back, merchant ships carried lighter and less dangerous goods, such as chromium, potassium chloride, magnesite, manganese, furs, leather, lumber, etc.
    1. 0
      3 August 2019 10: 16
      Quote: bubalik
      The caravans that were heading back were designated QP. On the way back, merchant ships carried lighter and less dangerous goods, such as chromium, potassium chloride, magnesite, manganese, furs, leather, lumber, etc.

      Strange, but this is exactly what our enlightened "historians" never mention when the question concerns supplies under Lend-Lease and its alleged "gratuitousness", while considering that what we paid for was also under Lend-Lease.
  39. 0
    1 August 2019 12: 12
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Says many soldiers from the peasants roared as their cars were let under pressure!

    So what? The law is strong, but it's law!
  40. +1
    1 August 2019 12: 23
    In the epigraph to his article, the author placed Zhukov's alleged post-war statement about American aid - Lend-Lease, namely:
    “Now they say that the Allies never helped us ... But one cannot deny that the Americans drove us so much material without which we could not form our reserves and could not continue the war... 350 thousand cars were received, and what kind of cars! .. We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. There was nothing to equip rifle cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder, explosives. And how much they drove us to sheet steel. How could we quickly establish the production of tanks, if not for the American help with steel. And now they present the matter in such a way that we had all of this in abundance. ”
    Karpov V.V. Marshal Zhukov: Opal. M .: Veche, 1994 "

    This statement is published, made allegedly by Zhukov in 1994, 20 years after the death of Zhukov himself. Maybe Zhukov made such a statement, or maybe he didn’t, it’s on the conscience of the author.
    In his lifetime memoirs, which were published in 1969, five years before his death, Zhukov wrote:
    “The help widely advertised by the Allies came to us through Lend-Lease in sizes far from what was promised.
    No words, help with gunpowder, high-octane gasoline, some types of steel, vehicles and food, of course, played a positive role. But its specific gravity was insignificant, if we talk about the general needs of our country in the agreed volumes of supplies. As for the tanks and planes that the British and American governments supplied to us, frankly, they were not popular with our tankmen and pilots, especially tanks that burned like torches when working on gasoline. ”

    This Zhukov himself personally wrote, he personally signed for what was written.
    Looks like Karpov, for reasons of context, invested in the mouth of the late Zhukov "relevant" in 1994 his personal "vision" of the "extensive" contribution of the states to the victory over Hitler Germany.

    Any help is unconditional, even the smallest in this bloody war saved the life of a soldier or commander of the Red Army, brought Victory closer. And the Soviet Union gratefully accepted it.
    But there is no need to exaggerate its significance, as many now do.
    1. +4
      1 August 2019 18: 04
      Ivan Tartugay, do you remember how Zhukov wrote: "I wanted to consult Leonid Brezhnev, but did not find him," and would you believe it? Marshal DEPUTY Stalin and wants to consult with the colonel ?! Yes, if Zhukov needed that Brezhnev galloped on one leg!
      1. 0
        3 August 2019 09: 29
        Yes, there is one Zhukovsky pearl of the conceptual approach of writing memoirs, As follows:
        In the 18th Army of General K.N. Leselidze, we arrived with the People's Commissar of the Navy N.G. Kuznetsov, Air Force Commander A.A. Novikov and General Staff employee General S.M. Shtemenko.
        Having familiarized themselves with the situation, forces and means of the army and sailors of the Black Sea Fleet, everyone came to the conclusion that it was impossible at that time to carry out any strengthened measures to expand the Novorossiysk bridgehead, which was then called Small Land in the troops.
        Indeed, it was a bridgehead with a total area of ​​only 30 square kilometers. All of us were then worried about one question: whether the Soviet soldiers would endure the trials that fell to their lot in an unequal struggle with the enemy, which delivered air strikes day and night and conducted artillery shelling against the defenders of this bridgehead.
        About it we wanted to consult with the head of the political department of the 18th army L.I. Brezhnev, but he was on the Lesser Land, where fierce battles were fought.
        “Memoirs and Reflections”, p. 464

        Of course, it is highly doubtful that such a company of highly placed persons, namely:
        - Zhukov himself - Deputy Supreme Commander-in-Chief, Marshal of the Soviet Union
        ;
        - Novikov AA - Deputy Commissar of Defense of the USSR for Aviation, Air Force Commander, Colonel General of Aviation;
        - Kuznetsov NG - People's Commissar of the Navy of the USSR, member of the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command, Admiral;
        - Shtemenko SM - First Deputy Chief of the General Staff Operations Directorate, Lieutenant General
        “They wanted to consult with the chief of the political department of the 18th army, L.I. Brezhnev, but he was on Malaya Zemlya, where fierce battles were fought. ”
        If they really "[b] wanted to consult with the chief of the political department of the 18th army L.I. Brezhnev [/ b] ”, Then Leonid Ilyich would be delivered to the headquarters of the 18th army immediately.
        At what it is placed in the lifetime Zhukovsky memoirs, which were published in 1969. Those. the marshal himself personally wrote this, he personally put his signature written.
        Therefore, of course, one must be careful about what Zhukov wrote, because written by Zhukov may be true, and may be a lie.
        The author of this article placed the even more dubious statement of the marshal in her epigraph, thereby casting doubt on his entire article.
    2. 0
      3 August 2019 10: 13
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      This Zhukov himself personally wrote, he personally signed for what was written.

      It is necessary to add - after reviewing his memoirs and approval by the Central Committee and the Ministry of Defense. So he didn’t write everything then as it really was.
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      Looks like Karpov, for reasons of context, invested in the mouth of the late Zhukov "relevant" in 1994 his personal "vision" of the "extensive" contribution of the states to the victory over Hitler Germany.

      I do not think that Karpov was a conjuncturist at that time — on the contrary, he was an opponent of distorting history for the sake of the new government.
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      Any help is unconditional, even the smallest in this bloody war saved the life of a soldier or commander of the Red Army, brought Victory closer. And the Soviet Union gratefully accepted it.
      But there is no need to exaggerate its significance, as many now do.

      I agree 100%. It’s just that some of our leaders in accusatory frenzy have already agreed to the point that we would not have won the war without Lend-Lease, which is really complete nonsense.
      1. 0
        3 August 2019 13: 10
        Quote: ccsr
        It is necessary to add - after reviewing his memoirs and approval by the Central Committee and the Ministry of Defense.

        Since Zhukov himself personally signed the galleys for publication, since he received the fee and personally signed for him.
        That’s all.
        It means that Zhukov agreed with the comments from both the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Ministry of Defense, he had no objections and made the changes himself. Now the responsibility for the maintenance of their memoirs lies only with Zhukov, referring to the memoirs of a lifetime edition.
  41. +1
    1 August 2019 12: 42
    A very good photo in the newspaper Pravda. We are not alone in the fight against Hitler, help will come



    12 June 1942
  42. BAI
    -1
    1 August 2019 12: 56
    So the publication of this message should be seen as a very smart and thoughtful move by the Soviet leadership in its informational confrontation with Nazi Germany.

    ABOUT! And not so long ago, the author claimed that the Soviet press did not know how to work during the war years, and everything printed there was a lie.
    1. -1
      1 August 2019 13: 35
      One good move on 10 does not make bad weather!
    2. +2
      1 August 2019 17: 52
      Do you want V.O. to say, "Azm is a sinner"? O. not Grozny to sin and then call himself pery
  43. +6
    1 August 2019 13: 04
    They did not hide information about Lend - Lease under the USSR, they simply did not advertise it. I had a collection of books, several volumes, published by the USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs, "Correspondence of JV Stalin with Churchl and Roosevelt 1941-1945." There is not only about Lend-Lease. Everything with specific numbers .. Very interesting essay ..
  44. 0
    1 August 2019 13: 24
    Half of the gunpowder and explosives used in the course of the hostilities are Lend-Lease supplies. So every second bullet and every second shell,

    Every third. Well ehhh! 100% + 50% = 150 !!! 150 / 50 = 3, math, first grade level.
    Not the point, it's still a lot, but it’s scratching right
  45. +1
    1 August 2019 13: 31
    Will you be about the Anders army, will ...
  46. -2
    1 August 2019 13: 32
    Quote: vnord
    just did not advertise

    How touching!
  47. +1
    1 August 2019 13: 33
    Thanks to the author for the work done, I read it in one go.
    But critics are always full, everyone considers himself an expert.
    I would like to know how many LL products did not "arrive", that is, remained at the bottom of the sea.
    The supplies were indeed paid for by the blood of the Soviet people, I write to the people, because not only the soldiers won the victory.
    1. +1
      1 August 2019 13: 45
      It's a shame, you know, daragoy, that ... well, we are not the best in the world ... Here are the huts and the hops ...
  48. +2
    1 August 2019 13: 34
    Quote: Ivan Tartugay
    Ivan Tartugai

    But what did he not refer to the article from the TRUTH?
  49. +2
    1 August 2019 13: 44
    Quote: ccsr
    And here are the newspaper’s messages, if F. Golikov in his memoirs described in great detail the whole mechanism of negotiations in the UK and the USA, as well as the problems that arose in these negotiations:

    Moreover, this document is PRIMARY, and the memoirs are SECONDARY in importance. That is, if you think, then you need to know. And if you read one such book, then ... I am much more in Russian and in English.
  50. +3
    1 August 2019 14: 26
    Six months, the Red Army fought with the Wehrmacht alone. And each shot was then a Soviet shot. (Thanks to the British, that, at the personal instruction of W. Churchill, the tanks participating in the Battle of Moscow were probably delivered to the peak of the ruling dynasty, which was completely pro-fascist.) When the German blitzkrieg in Soviet Russia failed, deliveries also went in a wide flow. Thank! Probably, this allowed ending the war in 4 of the year, and not waging it in 10 of years, as, for example, in Afghanistan in the recent past, where Americans openly helped dushmans, or soon 5, as in Syria today, where two of the most advanced weapons parties. But the fact remains, the supply of Land-Lease went only at the end of the 1941 year, they went for the gold that the Soviet government paid. Supplies helped, but the decisive word was for Soviet industry, which, in conditions of the evacuation of many defense plants, lack of personnel, equipment, materials, was able to provide the front with everything necessary and ultimately ensured the victory in the Second World War.
    Copper can be obtained at least 300%. But if you can’t process it, why then is it needed, like everything else?
  51. +5
    1 August 2019 14: 30
    Produced....delivered....percentage.
    And the question is: when was it produced - directly during the war? And taking into account what happened before the war, what will happen? Let me explain:
    "I once came across this question. The production of tanks is impossible without manganese alloys. Only in Hatfield steel, used for tracked tracks, does it contain at least 13%. But both of our then active deposits (in Georgia and Ukraine) were withdrawn by the Nazis out of action at the beginning of the war. The Zaporozhye and Zestafoni ferroalloy plants producing manganese alloys were transported to Novokuznetsk and Aktyubinsk and were just beginning to be built there. Ore mining has not yet begun at the manganese deposits in Kazakhstan. I had a question - how can we, without manganese, built tanks in 1941-1942? An old employee of the Ministry of Cherry and Metallurgy explained that before the war, on the orders of L. Beria, huge strategic reserves of metals and raw materials were created in Siberia, on which the industry of the USSR worked until their extraction began in the eastern deposits and processing at rebuilt evacuated factories.” (Yu.I.Mukhin).
    1. 0
      31 July 2022 17: 13
      logical. We have a lot of bloggers and just scum from social networks who talk complete nonsense. I recently talked to such scum on the Telegram channel. It all started with Lend-Lease for Ukraine. In response to my comment, just as they helped us carelessly, they also help Ukrainians to recover....is. And then the numbers began, then the distortion of words, then give the source... In the end, God forbid, I’ll catch you and slap you in the face with my palms. And what started about our “Lend-Lease” was that Zhukov wrote about it in his memoirs..... Zhukov, the commander, could not fully know the details of the production of weapons and supplies from the United States, even as a representative of Headquarters.
  52. +1
    1 August 2019 14: 35
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    Well, it's natural . Firstly, neither the British nor the Americans were preparing to call for help to us in advance

    Since 36, the British had been preparing to provide assistance only to France and Poland.
    The USA also saw that a repeat of WWII was being prepared and prepared
    orders went in long before 21.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX
    no need to hang around!
    1. +1
      1 August 2019 17: 22
      The USA also saw that a repeat of WWII was being prepared and prepared
      orders went in long before 21.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX


      True from 01.01.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX
  53. +2
    1 August 2019 15: 10
    Quote: Ivan Tartugay
    But there is no need to exaggerate its significance, as many now do.

    In my opinion, Stalin himself exaggerated it so much that it couldn’t be further!
  54. +3
    1 August 2019 15: 12
    History of the Alsib air ferry route (Alaska-Siberia)
    alexey-gladinov.livejournal.com
    The winter of 1942/43 was unusually severe in Alaska - frosts exceeded 60 degrees. The mercury in thermometers hardened and fur-bearing animals froze. The war, however, did not take into account the weather and did not allow military men to “sit by the stove.” Alsib has already acted. From Grant Fall, Montana, young American pilots landed first on the concrete strips of Canadian airfields, on compacted earth strips where gasoline was delivered by dog ​​sleds, and then reached the exotic Alaskan Fairbanks.
    The three thousand kilometers of the route were incredibly difficult. We often flew in poor visibility and without knowing what awaited us on the course. Now there are one hundred and fifty weather stations operating in Alaska, but then there were only ten. Due to magnetic storms, weather reports were difficult to transmit. Radio operators switched from voice to more reliable spark Morse code. The maps were inaccurate. The temperature difference at altitude in these places was news to the pilots. The clouds stood in a layer several kilometers thick.
    On one of the coldest days on the highway, eleven people died from the cold. There were dramas quite in the spirit of Jack London. Near Watson Lake, one of the planes got caught in a snowstorm and crashed. Two pilots died, and the other two, with skis tied to their knees and boots on their hands, crawled on all fours. They were found four days later - they were alive and continued to crawl. They were separated from the scene of the accident by six kilometers. The frost was 59 degrees.
    Amputation of frostbitten fingers was common on the highway, “fillings fell out of teeth when you inhaled,” there were many cases of frostbite in the lungs, and one sufferer had his frostbitten lip amputated. "They fly even at 68 degrees!" - noted a war correspondent who visited the coldest route.
    The US Air Force lost 133 aircraft and almost as many pilots on its section of the ferry route, which they nicknamed Alkan (Alaska-Canada).

    It was hard for EVERYONE! And to Soviet pilots and their American colleagues!
    Claims or questions regarding supply standards and regulations should be addressed to the politicians of that era!
    Ordinary sailors, pilots and drivers, ordinary citizens who collected gifts - simply did a common cause for VICTORY...
    And now we sit and argue what was MORE NECESSARY - a Mongolian horse in 1942 or a Studebaker in 1943?
    Deliveries of this truck began in 1942. GAVTU KA indicates that during the year the USSR received 3,8 thousand Studebakers.

    But we needed both!
    Our people deserved all this in much greater quantities!
    1. +5
      1 August 2019 16: 47
      Quote: hohol95
      But we needed both!
      Our people deserved all this in much greater quantities!

      So no problem - pick it up from a warehouse in the USA and take it to Murmansk, Vladivostok or through Iran. You can not? Then focus on the supplier’s transport capabilities. As much as he can deliver and push through Iran, that’s what you’ll get.
      1. +1
        1 August 2019 16: 51
        You understand this! But some people don't understand this.
        And I don’t think we could take more!
        Would the factories be able to produce "surplus"?
        The Americans are also not simpletons in economics - they knew the capabilities of their own enterprises!
        Delivery protocols were not agreed upon out of nowhere, but based on real numbers!
        1. +2
          1 August 2019 17: 16
          Quote: hohol95
          Would the factories be able to produce "surplus"?
          The Americans are also not simpletons in economics - they knew the capabilities of their own enterprises!

          In fact, already in 1943 the United States offered us more than it could transport. Therefore, in deliveries under Lend-Lease they switched to the practice of "here is a list of what is allowed for delivery, here is the limit on the volume and weight that we can deliver - choose what and how much you need to receive within this limit".
  55. +1
    1 August 2019 15: 13
    Quote: Minato2020
    To the very Zhukov whom N. Khrushchev exiled away?

    To the Marshal of Victory. To him, dear!
    1. -2
      1 August 2019 18: 44
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Minato2020
      To the very Zhukov whom N. Khrushchev exiled away?

      To the Marshal of Victory. To him, dear!


      I. Stalin also sent G. Zhukov after the war
      For what Stalin removed from the post of "Marshal of Victory" Zhukov (documents)
      https://topwar.ru/1657-za-chto-stalin-snyal-s-dolzhnosti-marshala-pobedy-zhukova-dokumenty.html#comment-id-4460448
  56. 0
    1 August 2019 15: 14
    Quote: Olgovich
    Lendlease is: 295/853*100=34%, i.e. not half, but a third of what was used in WWII

    But this is HALF OF WHAT WE PRODUCE! Has it finally arrived?
  57. -2
    1 August 2019 15: 18
    Quote: Den717
    because they were on strings.

    And did the fly also have ties?
    1. 0
      1 August 2019 18: 49
      There were no buttons on the long johns! Did you wear them? Where did you have them?)))))
      1. 0
        1 August 2019 19: 21
        Or maybe there was lightning there? laughing
      2. +1
        1 August 2019 22: 09
        I was born in 1954 and that says it all...
        1. 0
          2 August 2019 08: 20
          Moreover, the respected author should remember, especially the army, but that’s not the point....
  58. +2
    1 August 2019 15: 21
    П
    Moreover, we emphasize that according to the Anglo-Soviet agreement of June 27, 1942, British military assistance to the Soviet Union during the war was declared completely free. But before this date, the USSR paid for deliveries in gold and foreign currency, that is, in essence, it bought what was sent to it on these first convoys.
    Well, England itself did not supply us with anything under Lend-Lease. After all, the Lend Lease Act, whose full name is An Act to Promote the Defense of the United States of March 11, 1941, is a purely American act. And England itself was a recipient of Lend-Lease aid from the United States.
    Solven herring was specially prepared for him, which he used to snack on... Armenian cognac!
    Churchill himself writes in his memoirs that all his life he drank French cognac Hine and French champagne Pol Roger. This was also confirmed by his daughter Sarah Churchill.
    Winston Churchill. “I can’t live without champagne. After a victory I deserve it, and after a defeat I need it,” he said when he served in the cavalry as a young man and since then drank sparkling wine instead of water.

    “I need to be served a glass of sherry before breakfast, a couple of glasses of whiskey and soda for lunch, and champagne and 90-year-old cognac at night,” Sir Winston, upon arriving in the United States on a visit, instructed a waiter in the White House.

    Churchill paid for all his lunches and dinners with elite alcohol at the expense of the treasury, and no one considered this corruption. By evening he was naturally quite tipsy. Once he showed up to a dinner party drunk and in response to one lady’s accusation he replied: “The alcohol will disappear from me tomorrow, but your legs are crooked.”

    We like to talk about Churchill’s love for the Armenian cognac “Dvin”. He did drink it with Stalin at meetings in Yalta and Tehran, but there were no regular deliveries of Dvin to his table. It is a myth. Churchill's favorite brand of cognac was Hine, and his favorite brand of champagne was Pol Roger.
  59. +1
    1 August 2019 15: 23
    Quote: Den717
    I don't think you should be offended by criticism.

    Haven’t I yet seen criticism worthy of my “grievances”? I have numbers, in response there are emotions and attempts to prove something. Exactly the pushing... but they are good in the toilet for constipation, but I need something more substantial: data from archives, monographs of famous authors, also containing links to archives, or at least the same newspaper articles. Where is all this from the “critics”? No! So what should I pay attention to? There's even more sense in a dog's barking!
    1. 0
      1 August 2019 18: 49
      Eva, how excited you are... calm down, calm down)))
  60. +5
    1 August 2019 15: 28
    Quote: yehat
    finally, as the author of the article, he deftly left the second part of Lend-Lease, and it was payment.
    Excuse me, now you want to say that we allegedly PAID for supplies under Lend-Lease during the war???
    Finally, besides the United States, we could buy something in Brazil, Argentina, Sweden, Mexico and other countries. And what the hell is not joking - even in Japan.
    Don't make Stalin a stupid person. Why did we need to buy anything in Brazil, Argentina or Mexico - if we could add everything that they could supply us for currency or gold to the list of goods we needed supplied by the States under Lend-Lease.
    And we couldn’t get anything from Sweden. Or if only the Swedes would drive their ships around Scandinavia to Murmansk or Arkhangelsk. But this is also unlikely. The Swedes did not want to quarrel with the Germans.
  61. +3
    1 August 2019 15: 51
    It’s not very clear whether we really needed these depth charges


    Depth charges, in such minuscule quantities, were needed to equip the same British escort ships that accompanied the convoys - where else would they have replenished weapons in Arkhangelsk-Murmansk? And at the same time, the hunters and destroyers of the northern fleet, since welding a ramp for dropping British depth charges to size is easier than making the bomb itself.
  62. +1
    1 August 2019 16: 29
    [quote][In this area, as it turned out, the USSR had significant priority, which made it possible, firstly, to organize the production of the necessary gunpowder for Katyushas in the USA, and secondly, this decision made it possible to solve the problem of quickly providing these weapons to the American army, which sharply increased its fire superiority over the enemy. Both the Calliope launchers on tanks and the underwing missiles suspended under Thunderbolts and Lightnings would not have appeared if we had not shared our secrets in this area with our allies. /quote]

    Author - it’s better not to write based on guesswork, something you’re unfamiliar with or don’t know.

    [quote]The first, US patent 1102653 for a multi-stage rocket powered by a solid "explosive" The first test launch of a Goddard rocket using gunpowder took place in mid-1915.
    By mid-summer 1915, Goddard had achieved an average thrust efficiency of 40 percent with an exhaust rate of 2051 meters (6728 ft) per second. I started experimenting with different profile nozzles. And was able to achieve engine efficiency of more than 63% and exhaust velocities of more than 7000 feet (2134 meters) per second. It was probably the most advanced solid fuel engine in the world. Soviet agents also spied on Goddard. A KGB agent who infiltrated the US Navy Bureau of Aeronautics in 1935 sent to the USSR the Goddard Report, written for the Navy in 1933. It contained test and flight results and proposals for military applications of his missiles. It is difficult to say how this information influenced rocket science in the USSR.[/quote]
    [quote]September 1941 - the military finally paid attention to Goddard. Navy Lieutenant Charles F. Fisher visited Goddard at Roswell and became convinced that Goddard was doing important work. He was able to convince the Bureau of Aeronautics that Goddard could build JATOs (Jet Aircraft Launch Boosters) for the Navy. Goddard began work in September, even before the contract was awarded, he began creating variable thrust boosters to be used on seaplanes. By May 1942, the accelerator was created. [/quote]

    [quote] Much more than the American Rocket Society (Goddard), the group that arose in 1936 at the California Institute of Technology made a contribution to American astronautics. Its organizer and ideological inspirer was Dr. Theodor von Karman. In addition to him, the group included Frank Malina, Jiang Xiusen, Apollo Smith, John Parsons, Edward Foreman and Weld Arnold. Now von Karman's group is known throughout the world as the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. But this is now. And in the mid-1930s, the main goal of the first phase of research funded by Arnold was to construct a rocket to study the upper atmosphere.
    As subsequent events showed, this group did a great job, not limiting itself to creating a high-altitude rocket. She developed a whole series of rocket fuels, designed and put into mass production the first American launch rocket accelerator, and carried out a lot of very valuable research.[/quote]

    The production of gunpowder to equip rocket engines using USSR technology was needed primarily by the USSR itself to equip the RS. It was not of great secret or interest - add metal, the combustion temperature and pressure will increase, but detonation may occur. Each solid fuel engine has its own composition. The United States used its own components, which were developed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and improved during the war by research groups.

    The missiles and single-shot launcher were successfully tested in 1939 in the UK. In the same year, serial production of missiles and launchers began.


    The first ground tests of missiles (USA) were carried out in May 1941, which, in general, went quite smoothly and almost exactly a year later, in June 1942, tests began on board the P-40 fighter. In 1943, the missile, which received the standard army designation M8, was put into mass production - the total volume of production from 1942 to 1945 amounted to over 2.5 million units in various modifications
    1. 0
      1 August 2019 16: 56
      By the way, the British used SCRK brand cordite in their solid fuel rockets.
      The Americans used their developments to create the M4, so what about the influence on the creation of the T34 CALLIOPE is a fantasy.

      here more
      https://topwar.ru/44774-britanskaya-i-amerikanskaya-reaktivnaya-artilleriya-vtoroy-mirovoy.html
      https://super-arsenal.ru/blog/43466899619/Britanskie-i-amerikanskie-aviatsionnyie-reaktivnyie-snaryadyi-Vt?nr=1
      http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/anur/ffar.html
  63. -1
    1 August 2019 16: 39
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    As for what was supplied, let me remind you that it was not a gag of the Allies,

    when spitfires 7 were produced in england, we were supplied with mk5 guns that constantly jammed
    when Churchill 2 and Churchill 3 came to us, the 5th and 7th were being put into service in England, which could butt heads with tigers almost on an equal footing.
    so there is no need to say that the USSR could have ordered everything that was available - they pushed equipment onto it that they themselves often did not need.
    1. -1
      1 August 2019 18: 16
      Quote: yehat
      so there is no need to say that the USSR could have ordered everything that was available - they pushed equipment onto it that they themselves often did not need.

      I completely agree with you - F. Golikov described in detail the problems of obtaining the weapons and property we need in his memoirs:
      At that time, it was impossible not to take into account other circumstances that were of fundamental importance for the practical solution of issues related to military supplies to the Soviet Union. First of all, we are talking about the fact that the satisfaction of our request for armaments, as already noted, was met with hostility, political hostility towards the Soviet people and their army on the part of reactionary elements operating openly and covertly in some official American and British institutions. There were such elements among the leading military personnel of the USA and England. Diverting from the thread of our narrative, let us remember that when the Lend-Lease bill was discussed in the US Senate in March 1941, this bill met the most fierce resistance from isolationists, who were most afraid that this law would extend to providing assistance to the Soviet Union. All this prompted Ambassador K.A. Umansky and me to report to the Soviet leadership about the current situation. I remember we asked I.V. Stalin to raise the question with W. Churchill about the unacceptable attitude of the British towards our requests and about the need to make such adjustments to the plans for American supplies to England that would increase the share of the Soviet Union. First of all, this concerned machine tools, aircraft, anti-aircraft guns and ammunition. We also considered it necessary that appropriate tasks on this issue be assigned to our representatives in London - comrades I.M. Maisky and N.M. Kharlamov.
    2. 0
      1 August 2019 21: 04
      In fact, the author himself says this: the British supplied what they themselves did not need
      1. +3
        1 August 2019 23: 06
        Dear Astra love , in war there are no unnecessary things. There is NEVER too much ammunition, or shells, and I’m not even talking about aviation and armored vehicles (look at the losses on both sides). And remember the parade on Red Square in the fall of 1941, what did our Red Army soldiers march with there? So... I don’t know what Vyacheslav Olegich had in mind, perhaps Texas stew, but they definitely had no shortage of that - they fed the whole world. hi
        1. 0
          2 August 2019 10: 43
          the stew was mostly Australian.
      2. +1
        2 August 2019 15: 16
        The "Valentine" tank could not "take root" in the British tank forces, but the tank crews of the Red Army liked it! (not right away, but I liked it). Thanks to this, “Valentine” was produced in Canada as long as the USSR ordered them (April 1944)! However, it was no longer used in the British Army!
        There was equipment that the USSR refused. Fortunately for our tankers, the country abandoned “cruising” tanks and chose only “infantry” tanks (except for the “Tetrarch”, but only 20 of them were received)!
        Another example is motorcycles with sidecars! Neither the British nor the Americans had them! They took a simple motorcycle and attached a sidecar from the Soviet M-72 to it!
  64. +3
    1 August 2019 16: 47
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are right: Stalin always tried to think and think before speaking.
  65. -1
    1 August 2019 17: 40
    Explosives: produced 558 thousand tons; delivered 295,6 thousand tons; 53%.
    Half of the gunpowder and explosives used during the war came from Lend-Lease.

    I’ll take just one example of the incorrectness of the conclusions in this material. Explosive substances: if under Lend-Lease 53% of our own production, this means not half, but one third of the total resource.
    In addition, how much Lendlease explosives were used in combat operations is a completely different matter. Here we need to count how much was in reserve at the beginning of the war, how much was left after the end, how much captured explosives the Red Army captured, and finally how much of the Lendl-Lease supplies came before the end of the war with Germany.
    Then much less Lendlease explosives will be used in combat.
    This is not all - if supplies under Lend-Lease were not interrupted, the USSR could produce more explosives and gunpowder (including surrogate ones), but it did not do this because supplies were interrupted.
    Finally, deliveries under Lend-Lease were disrupted because the USSR was beaten by an ally of the United States and England in the war with Germany and Japan. If the USSR's allies beat Germany and Japan, he could receive supplies from these countries.
    The same can be said about all other examples - aviation fuel and so on.
    Vivod: 1. The USSR was not isolated either before or after the German attack, and this guaranteed that in all cases it would have allies with whom it could trade and receive what it lacked. 2. The USSR could defeat Germany without Lend-Lease - it clearly demonstrated this in 1941 - mid-43, during a period when supplies under Lend-Lease were still very small.
    It is also impossible not to take into account that before the meeting in Tehran, the USSR had a real opportunity to conclude a separate peace with Germany.
    1. +1
      2 August 2019 10: 47
      There really was an opportunity to conclude a separate peace, but society would not have accepted such a peace.
      in the USSR there was very strict propaganda of hatred in the style of a good fascist - a dead fascist and the sudden world absolutely contradicted this line. Therefore, peace simply guaranteed mass disobedience among the troops and big problems.
      1. 0
        2 August 2019 16: 23
        There were materials on the site that in 1941-42 there was an idea: “Brest 2” and Bulgaria was planned as an intermediary
        1. 0
          2 August 2019 16: 31
          There are as many ideas as you like, but neither in 41, nor in 42, nor in most of 43, the conclusion of peace with Germany without a complete return to the beginning of the war was impossible without mass unrest in society.
          Those. simply unrealistic. And then, the conclusion of peace was only possible with major concessions to Germany, close to admitting defeat.
          So you live next door to your neighbor, and one day he breaks down your door with an ax at night and starts blowing snow at you - do you want to make peace with him and pretend that nothing happened?
  66. +2
    1 August 2019 18: 22
    Quote: hohol95
    Mongolian wool supplied us more than the United States.

    Without wool from Mongolia, we would, of course, have lost the war.
    1. 0
      2 August 2019 15: 20
      Where could the USSR get the same volume of wool without transportation across the seas and oceans?
      The Germans and the British spent the WHOLE war running to Sweden for bearings!
      Somehow Great Britain could not find a replacement for them in other countries!
  67. +1
    1 August 2019 18: 52
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    our reserves until June 22, 1941? If you don’t take them into account, the picture is not quite correct.. and mathematics..

    But here we must take into account how much was lost, right? There were 20 thousand of those same tanks, but what was left in the end... The same thing happened with the ammunition depots.
  68. +2
    1 August 2019 19: 49
    Quote: Nagaibak
    Yes, yes, the USSR Minister of Foreign Affairs at the session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR should have been called for the destruction of Hitlerism.

    You should have at least kept silent, and not sucked up to Hitler...
  69. +4
    1 August 2019 19: 58
    Quote: Den717
    It would be worth starting with the one who brought Hitler to power, who pushed him to start a war.

    What the hell are you writing this from?
  70. +2
    1 August 2019 20: 03
    Quote: Den717
    One should not lose sight of the fact that practical matters often did not at all coincide with public statements.

    So this is where it comes from: we do one thing, think another, and say a third. Well, now... it has been inherited. “He wavered with the party line,” and who wasn’t a member of it then?
  71. 0
    1 August 2019 20: 50
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you have a good article and compelling arguments, but a small reproach.
    The newspaper "Pravda" is not very difficult to find; it is more difficult, but it is possible to find front-line newspapers. But I have no idea where the book on the history of Lend-Lease, the cover of which you posted. Who knows, there might be one paragraph in the book about Lend-Lease. Kidding.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, next time choose more accessible links.
    1. +4
      1 August 2019 21: 46
      This book is easily accessible, you can even download it online and read it for your health. And links are selected not by accessibility, but by content.
  72. +2
    1 August 2019 22: 07
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    got excited

    What a rich language we have. I haven't heard that. And who told you about the restlessness? You can write anything you want and with any shade of feelings!
  73. +2
    1 August 2019 22: 11
    So I won’t refer to him..."a trifle."
  74. +5
    2 August 2019 00: 29
    Dear author for the article - thank you! What's on "V.o." The discussion is being conducted “in a personal way”, which I experienced firsthand. In the “Photo and Video” section, in the comments to the report from Voronezh, I received both negative and caustic comments, to which I asked questions to the commentators and tried to justify my position. The answer is silence... Well, since my ancestors are from near Arkhangelsk, and I myself am from Severodvinsk, I’ll try to clarify something on the topic you raised.
    In addition to the MPR, we had a reliable ally in 1941 - the TPR, the first horses from the Tuvans went to the Red Army in June 1941, and also cattle. 90% of supplies are free of charge. Why did you remember the horses? My grandfather, Pyotr Stepanovich Danilov, died near Velikiye Luki on February 21, 1944. In the notice of death and in the notice of reburial in a mass grave near the village of Myakotino, the positions are different: “carriage” and “rider”, but the essence is the same - my grandfather served with horses, age - 46 years, and he also fought in the Civil War, run to the attack quickly I couldn’t anymore, but with horses - that’s it, from 1941 to 1944...
    We do not yet remember the military operations of Britain in 1941 within the borders of the USSR. Only about deliveries..
    Great Britain began deliveries to the USSR in July 1941. Minzag "Adventure" appeared in the White Sea on July 31, 1941. He delivered to Arkhangelsk 200 secret magnetic mines, 1000 depth charges, parachutes and special pyrotechnic materials (magnets, flashing plates, etc.).
    About "Dervish". As one of the commentators on Voennoye Obozreniye advised me, I read Wikipedia. About the cargo ship "Alchiba" it is indicated that it sailed under the flag of the Netherlands, I read that the ship was under the flag of Denmark. The British Navy tanker "Aldersail" was traveling with the convoy ships, it did not have a number on the order, where exactly it was going and how, to whom, where and how much fuel it gave - I don’t know yet.
    Convoy PQ-1. Wikipedia claims that on September 29, the ship "Yelna -2" sailed under the British flag. Here's what I found: "ELNA-2 (before 1923 "Carol 1-er", before 1926 "Arlon", before 1931 "Remenham", before 1935 "Lennuk", before September 1940 "Elna", until 18.08.1941/1944/XNUMX "Elna II", since XNUMX "Kotlin")
    Total capacity 3221 GRT (deadweight 5340 t). Dimensions 103.0 x 14.41 x 6.57 m. Boiler-machine power plant, 1900 hp. Speed ​​10 knots.
    Cargo ship. Launched on June 24.06.1903, 1903 (Sir Reylton Dixon & Co Ltd, Middlesborough, UK), delivered to the customer in August 1923 and was owned by a shipowner from Dunkirk (France). In 1926 it became Belgian property. and in 1931 - to the English shipping company. In 9.09.1940 acquired by Estonian shipowners. At the time of Estonia's entry into the USSR, he was in Great Britain. Due to the refusal of the crew to return to the USSR, it came into the possession of the British Ministry of Shipping / War Transport. 18.08.1941/11.10.1941/1 while parking on the river. Thames was damaged by German bomber aircraft and sank. Soon recovered by British rescuers and restored. On August 7.05.1942, 26.11, it was transferred to the USSR by the British government; on October 5.12.1942, 2.01.1944, it arrived in Arkhangelsk with convoy PQ-1945 and became part of the Northern State Shipping Company. During the Great Patriotic War, it carried out military and economic transportation in the Barents, White and Kara Seas. From 31.05.1956/08/1941 it was included in the Northern Fleet as a transport. From November 101 to December XNUMX, XNUMX, he made an independent passage with export cargo from Belushya Bay (Novaya Zemlya Island) to Akureyri (Iceland), and from there through the Panama Canal to Vladivostok and on January XNUMX, XNUMX he was transferred to the balance of the Far Eastern State. sea ​​shipping company. In XNUMX it was transferred to the Sakhalin State. maritime shipping company. On XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX it was taken out of service and excluded from the lists of ships of the Ministry of Marine Fleet. According to some information, it was cut into metal in Tallinn "... On October XNUMX, XNUMX, aircraft of the Northern Fleet Air Force, while patrolling in the convoy area, almost sank our submarine S-XNUMX... Wikipedia claims that all the ships arrived in Arkhangelsk. This is not so, Some of the ships came to my native Severodvinsk (during the war - Molotovsk).
    Convoy QP-1. Polish soldiers interned in the USSR went to Lanstephan Castle to Britain. Some of them were building an airfield in the village. Ponoy, Murmansk region, to which 28 I-1941s from the Arkhangelsk Military District were relocated on October 8, 153 for air protection of convoys in the area of ​​the northeast, east and southeast of the Kola Peninsula (Yokanga, Ponoy, Chapoma, Chavanga) and the Throat of the White Sea. Subsequently, some of these Poles fought in Anders’ army.
    At that time, the Arkhangelsk transport hub (Arkhangelsk and Molotovsk) could accept no more than 5 vessels with a draft of up to 18 feet for unloading. The port was not suitable for unloading “heavyweights” (tanks, locomotives, boats). Two floating cranes with a lifting capacity of 50 and 25 tons and 6 vehicles available at the port could handle no more than 3-4 vehicles. Here are brief additions about the first convoys to us from Great Britain and from us.
    1. +1
      2 August 2019 06: 48
      Quote: Tests
      Here are brief additions about the first convoys to us from Great Britain and from us.
      Thank you!
  75. 0
    2 August 2019 00: 43
    Well, first of all, we primarily needed not materials, but military equipment. And first of all, not ships, but land equipment, because basically, the battles in the USSR took place on land. Yes ! And it is true that supplies in 1941 and 1942 were meager. Then things got better a little. Cars and Stew are good. And Fighters and Tanks, such as they themselves did not want to fly! Since the American Airacobra fighter initially turned out to be a shitty plane, which American pilots refused to fly, it was decided to give this plane away to their brothers in arms, the British!
    In order to make a favorable impression of this aircraft in front of the British, the Cobra was lightened by almost a ton, almost all additional equipment was removed, all surfaces were manually polished, and look, the British are convinced that it is an excellent aircraft!
    Yes, the fighter, lightened in such a cruel way, accelerated to 650 km/h and had a flight range of up to 1600 km. What can I say, where are the Americans, and where is the honesty when it comes to profit?
    It is clear that the production copies of the P-39 that arrived in England became a cold shower on the heads of English pilots.
    Simply put, the Americans simply deceived their British allies.
    In August 1941, the first 11 fighters were delivered to England.
    And in November of the same year, the Airacobras were withdrawn from service and the order for the remaining 200 vehicles was canceled.
    In Australia, things went no better. Complaints and reclamations flowed, and immediately after the end of the war, the Australian Air Force hurried to return all aircraft back to the United States.
    The Bell company was really on the verge of collapse.
    ​Oddly enough, the British saved her.
    The British found a masterpiece way out of the situation by offering to supply Airacobras along with other aircraft junk like the Hurricane to the Soviet Union via LEND-LIZA.
    Ours at that time simply had nowhere to go, so the Airacobras went to the USSR.
    1. 0
      4 August 2019 15: 04
      And no one except ours knew how to fight in Airacobras. They became heroes of the Soviet Union by fighting in these vehicles.
  76. 0
    2 August 2019 11: 00
    Quote: kalibr
    Those same tanks were worth 20 thousand, but what was left in the end...

    on paper there were more than 33 thousand tanks, but in reality in the Western Military District there were only about 100 thousand serviceable and fueled vehicles that could travel 200-4 km before the first battle,
    1. 0
      3 August 2019 09: 59
      Quote: yehat
      there were more than 33 thousand tanks on paper,

      Even Meltyukhov did not think of such a figure. Where did you get it from?
      1. 0
        5 August 2019 10: 29
        there are many sources. the maximum figure is about 38-46 thousand (everything was included there, including the T-37, experimental vehicles and armored tractors)
        33 thousand is Guderian's minimum estimate in 38-39 based on the monthly production of cars from factories that he was aware of.
        1. 0
          5 August 2019 12: 03
          Quote: yehat
          there are many sources.

          There is no need for general words about their many - let's be specific about which ones. Meltyukhov gives another figure, and it is not close to those you are referring to - you can check the source yourself.
          Quote: yehat
          33 thousand is Guderian's minimum estimate in 38-39 based on the monthly production of cars from factories that he was aware of.

          Did he serve in the People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR, that he could know the exact figure? It's not even funny to refer to such sources of "information". By the way, how did he take into account the decommissioning of equipment without knowing the standard service life of armored vehicles in peacetime?
  77. The comment was deleted.
    1. -2
      2 August 2019 12: 33
      It seems so to you. In fact, everything is not like that. If you read all the comments, then... there are no less positive responses than negative ones. But this is not the most important thing. Yes, Mordor dealt with Hitler's hordes with the support of Western democracies. But... where is he? The USSR is not on the world map... Having won the war, he lost the world, and this is worse.
      Quote: Alceers
      newspaper clippings torn from the general outline

      Well, there’s no need to write nonsense, of course. The government's resolution is not a cut out of the canvas. However, I'm not surprised. There are always more fools in any society than smart people. In some ways this is good, but in some ways it is bad.
  78. +2
    2 August 2019 11: 33
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Olgovich
    Lendlease is: 295/853*100=34%, i.e. not half, but a third of what was used in WWII

    But this is HALF OF WHAT WE PRODUCE! Has it finally arrived?

    But not half of what was used in the war. You have heard the difference between “produced here” and “used in war.”
    For example, 10 times more steam locomotives were delivered to the USSR under lend-lease than were produced in the USSR during the war, but they account for less than 10% of all steam locomotives used by the USSR in the war.
    Do I need to indicate why or can you figure it out yourself?
  79. +1
    2 August 2019 11: 43
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    our reserves until June 22, 1941? If you don’t take them into account, the picture is not quite correct.. and mathematics..

    But here we must take into account how much was lost, right? There were 20 thousand of those same tanks, but what was left in the end... The same thing happened with the ammunition depots.

    Of course, we must take into account losses, but even after taking into account the losses, there were enough ammunition reserves not only until the end of 41, but also remained for 42.
    We must also take into account the fact that what was supplied under Lend-Lease after April 45 and could not be used against Germany.
    It is necessary to take into account the reserves that remained in the USSR after the surrender of Germany and were not used in the war with Germany.
    We must also take into account captured ammunition, fuel, and so on.
    After all this, it is possible to calculate how much of what was supplied under Lend-Lease was actually used by the USSR in the war.
    And only then can you think about what could be the replacement of supplies under lend-lease - like trade imports or import substitution.
  80. 0
    2 August 2019 12: 26
    Quote: yehat
    There really was an opportunity to conclude a separate peace, but society would not have accepted such a peace.
    in the USSR there was very strict propaganda of hatred in the style of a good fascist - a dead fascist and the sudden world absolutely contradicted this line. Therefore, peace simply guaranteed mass disobedience among the troops and big problems.

    What if the USA and England don’t want to fight Germany and don’t want to deliver what the USSR wants?
    What then? Soviet society could very well accept a sudden truce under certain conditions and guarantees (for example: ending the occupation and restoring the borders of the USSR, restoring the sovereignty of the occupied countries, a peace treaty with the participation of other countries of the anti-Hitler coalition). The difference could be that there would be no unconditional surrender of Germany and occupation of its territory - Germany would retain sovereignty. For Germany, this was the best way out in the situation in which it found itself at the end of 1943.
    Therefore, the USSR wanted a direct commitment to the opening of the Second Front in France in 1944 and volumes of supplies under lend-lease. Only after a positive response from the USA and England did a meeting take place in Tehran and the USSR joined the ultimatum on unconditional surrender. Otherwise, there could have been a meeting between Molotov and Ribentrop in Tokyo with Japanese mediation, a truce in the East, the withdrawal of German troops from the occupied countries and a proposal for a peace conference in Moscow.
  81. +1
    2 August 2019 12: 34
    Quote: Kostadinov
    but they make up less than 10% of all steam locomotives used by the USSR in the war.

    It's clear. But how many were lost at the beginning of the war do you know?
  82. The comment was deleted.
  83. +1
    2 August 2019 13: 48
    Quote: Olgovich
    Hitlerism was fiercely condemned in the USSR until August 1939

    TRUTH called Hitler a cannibal. Open it and read it for yourself. Only the hem is thick and heavy, see photo. you may not be able to handle it.
  84. -1
    2 August 2019 14: 38
    And the volume of supplies was such that the annual production of Soviet aviation gasoline during the war years increased from 110 tons in 000 to 1941 tons in 1.

    Of course this is not the case. The USSR produced more than a million tons of aviation gasoline in 1940.
    Only the production of higher-octane aviation gasoline was increased several times, and this increase occurred back in 41-42, when lend-lease supplies were meager. Then, in the second half of 1943, when significant deliveries began under Lend-Lease, only then did they slow down their production somewhat.
    In addition, they received petroleum products from Iran, but Iran was occupied jointly by Soviet and British troops, so supplies from Iran were more likely captured fuel, rather than supplies from allies.
    Without the supply of gasoline under lend-lease, the USSR had a choice: they would use water, methanol, ethanol, benzene, aniline and so on to increase the octane of their gasoline, use partially gasoline with a slightly lower octane with a slight loss of power (up to 5%), switch to aviation diesels for part of aviation and so on.
    Vivod: there was nothing irreplaceable in the supply of aviation fuel under lend-lease.
  85. -1
    2 August 2019 14: 42
    Quote: kalibr
    That's when you will have at least a dozen articles on VO,

    Should I measure the amount of semi-translated plagiarism with you? Excuse me. I prefer to buy quality. And in your case, as I have repeatedly pointed out, analysis as a scientific tool is completely absent. You are trying to fit the facts to your vision. And they are unsuitable for professional work because you cannot understand that the facts you present refute your own conclusions!
    1. +1
      2 August 2019 16: 06
      Quote: Alceers
      your conclusions are refuted!

      Write so that all your facts prove that you are right. High quality, scrupulous, interesting for everyone. So that no stone is left unturned from my facts. Who's stopping you? Nobody! At the same time, you will show the class and how everyone needs to work... efficiently. We will look up to you!
  86. -1
    2 August 2019 14: 47
    Quote: kalibr
    . Then “open your mitten.” They dismissed you, turners-bakers at the scoop

    Oh thank you! I'm glad that you showed your insides once again. Would you please master flog us all in the stable? It was precisely this kind of pseudo-elite, quasi-intellectuals and other educated people who hated their people, who went to the police force during the war and had a hand in the collapse of the USSR...
  87. +1
    2 August 2019 14: 51
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Kostadinov
    but they make up less than 10% of all steam locomotives used by the USSR in the war.

    It's clear. But how many were lost at the beginning of the war do you know?

    It is known that there were 26 thousand. At the beginning, they lost about 5 thousand, but the length of the roads also decreased by more than one third. Under Lend-Lease, they received approximately 1500 steam locomotives, approximately 200 of their own military production, and captured more than 5 as trophies during the offensive. This is all from memory. If something is wrong, correct it.
    Delivered under Lend-Lease several times more than its own military production, but of the steam locomotives used, less than 10% were Lend-Lease.
  88. +1
    2 August 2019 14: 57
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Olgovich
    Hitlerism was fiercely condemned in the USSR until August 1939

    TRUTH called Hitler a cannibal. Open it and read it for yourself. Only the hem is thick and heavy, see photo. you may not be able to handle it.

    Peace can be concluded with a cannibal if this peace does not violate the borders and sovereignty of the USSR. Still, peace with a cannibal is somewhat better than a war with a cannibal.
    The orientation of the USSR's foreign policy is not German or American, but Soviet and proceeds only from the interests of the USSR.
    All this is taken from Stalin.
  89. +1
    2 August 2019 15: 57
    Quote: Kostadinov
    Peace can be concluded with a cannibal if this peace does not violate the borders and sovereignty of the USSR. Still, peace with a cannibal is somewhat better than a war with a cannibal.

    Everything is correct, but there is no need for extremes. No need to lick. ORDINARY PEOPLE HAVE DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING SUCH ZIGZAGS. I hope you understand this?
  90. -2
    2 August 2019 15: 59
    Quote: Alceers
    I prefer to buy quality.

    Show the quality, something is not visible...Perhaps you are the author of some unusually interesting monograph? Let me know, I’ll read it with pleasure. Or are you from the Chukchi?
  91. -2
    2 August 2019 16: 02
    Quote: Alceers
    and had a hand in the collapse of the USSR...

    I probably did, why not? But you, being so knowledgeable, had to prevent this, yes: But something didn’t work out, right? Education turned out to be stronger. What a pity...
  92. The comment was deleted.
  93. +1
    2 August 2019 16: 29
    Explosives: produced 558 thousand tons; 295,6 thousand tons delivered; 53%

    Half of the gunpowder and explosives used in the course of the hostilities are Lend-Lease supplies. This means that every second bullet and every second shell, bomb or torpedo, hand grenade or mine produced their intended action due to ... supplies. Every second shot at the enemy was "foreign" - that's how it is!

    the author not only juggles numbers without providing proof, (in such an article there should be a proof for each number, and not the author’s statement that he wants to see how someone knows how to work with a computer), he blatantly lies in the eyes of the readers - one third of gunpowder and explosives used in the course of hostilities is Lend-Lease supply, but not halfbased on the figures given by him! By the way, it is not known for what period the production and supply of explosives was given by this propagandist.
    Like the first, this article is an arrogant and dishonest PR of Lend-Lease, relying on unconfirmed statistics taken from nowhere (there is not a single proof and a total lie, as in the above example), which was assessed by Disraeli: “There are three types of lies : lies, damned lies and statistics." Articles are cheap crafts made exclusively from all three types.
    I believe it is necessary to raise the question of the removal of both articles from the site in connection with the conscious distortion of the truth by the afftor.
  94. -2
    2 August 2019 17: 13
    Quote: snerg7520
    I believe it is necessary to raise the question of the removal of both articles from the site in connection with the conscious distortion of the truth by the afftor.

    Are you blind or have squint? All supply figures are taken from the newspaper Pravda. Decree of the Soviet government... and so on. Truth from June 11, 1944. Someone even included a photo of the newspaper article in the comments. Data on Soviet production is easy to obtain... Google to the rescue...
    1. +1
      2 August 2019 20: 53
      Quote: kalibr
      All supply figures are taken from the newspaper Pravda.

      In fact, the newspaper Pravda is primarily a party propaganda source, and not a statistical collection of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR, so it is not clear how one can make a serious analysis based on articles from the party newspaper. Although I do not deny that much of the newspaper articles were true, it is impossible to use only the media to write such work.
  95. -1
    2 August 2019 17: 16
    Quote: snerg7520
    I believe it is necessary to raise the question of the removal of both articles from the site in connection with the conscious distortion of the truth by the afftor.

    Who are you to believe anything? Candidate of Historical Sciences, Doctor? Author of a dissertation on Lend-Lease? Do you have more than one monograph on this topic? No, well... what... But... don't worry, there will be a third material!
  96. +1
    2 August 2019 21: 10
    Quote: ccsr
    In fact, the newspaper Pravda is primarily a party propaganda source, and not a statistical collection of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR, so it is not clear how one can make a serious analysis based on articles from the party newspaper. Although I do not deny that much of the newspaper articles were true, it is impossible to use only the media to write such work.

    Is this what you are telling me? I repeat once again: THERE IS DISCIPLINE - SOURCE STUDY. It has a division of sources... primary, secondary... Once again for you: REMEMBER - DECISIONS OF THE SOVIET GOVERNMENTPRINTED IN TRUE THIS IS THE SOURCE. Primary! And this is not an ARTICLE! Remember! Is it clearly explained? You can open a textbook on source study and check it out. Since this is also a propaganda organ, the data should be checked, yes. But they ultimately coincide with the data given in OTHER sources, which would take a very long time to list. To you and others... in the comments, smart people named these sources and pointed out their ease of accessibility. And you are still twitching... You simply have not met specialists of my level. And the fact that I have to explain to you the level of KINDERGARTEN is regrettable. But you called yourself a load, climb into the back. I hope I have explained EVERYTHING ACCESSIBLY to you or should I also provide a link to the pages of the textbook on source studies for universities?
    Read and compare this: Russia’s Life-Saver: Lend-Lease Aid to the U.S.S.R. in World War II, by Albert L. Weeks, Lexington Books, New York, 2004.
    1. +1
      3 August 2019 09: 50
      Quote: kalibr
      Is that you telling me?

      Yes, you, academician, professor or whoever you think you are.
      Quote: kalibr
      REMEMBER - THE DECISIONS OF THE SOVIET GOVERNMENT PRINTED IN THE TRUTH ARE THE SOURCE.

      And you cite editorials, not resolutions. Moreover, who told you that propaganda material could not be used in the Resolutions?
      Quote: kalibr
      And you are still twitching...

      You twitch when they rightly point out to you that deliveries from the UK could not begin immediately after June 22, even if Pravda wrote about it.
      Quote: kalibr
      I hope I have explained EVERYTHING ACCESSIBLY to you or should I also provide a link to the pages of the textbook on source studies for universities?

      Which universities, please specify. Otherwise, some modern universities are no match for the Soviet ones, which I graduated from during the time of Brezhnev.
      Quote: kalibr
      Read and compare this: Russia’s Life-Saver: Lend-Lease Aid to the U.S.S.R. in World War II, by Albert L. Weeks, Lexington Books, New York, 2004.

      What makes you think that your source is trustworthy, and even not translated by professional translators? Don't tell me - they print much more waste paper there now than in Soviet times, so you shouldn't take everything at face value if it was printed in the USA.
  97. -1
    2 August 2019 21: 16
    Quote: kalibr
    Or are you from the Chukchi?

    So, judging by the minuses and lack of response - another Chukchi critic!
  98. 0
    2 August 2019 22: 47
    May I ask a question, it always comes up with Lend-Lease, is Lend a lease? we lost X we received Y, do we pay for Y and the rest is returned? Or do we only pay for the returned balance? somewhat chaotic, just complex and interesting that Lend-Lease
    1. 0
      3 August 2019 17: 26
      Quote: lshka
      May I ask a question, it always comes up with Lend-Lease, is Lend a lease? we lost X we received Y, do we pay for Y and the rest is returned? Or do we only pay for the returned balance? somewhat chaotic, just complex and interesting that Lend-Lease

      I'll try to explain with a simple example. For example, we received an American tank under Lend-Lease, which is given to us for the duration of the war. If it is destroyed, then this is an irretrievable loss, and we do not pay anything for it and do not return the tank. When it is not destroyed, we are obliged to return it to the Americans after the war in its entirety. If we cannot do this, then we are obliged to pay its cost at American prices, even if the tank itself is not there - for example, it was used for spare parts during repairs in a combat situation, when it was damaged and was sent to a remand battalion and what remained of it was the hull and tower. This happens in the army, even in peacetime.
      But there is one nuance that for some reason many do not want to take into account when assessing Lend-Lease itself. A tank, for example, comes with ammunition that was used up in the very first days of hostilities. We are forced to order shells for it, and it is not a fact that they will be supplied as part of Lend-Lease, and will not require payment for such a delivery, especially if it is expensive ammunition. This is where American companies profited - for example, they refused to supply repair kits for tank radio stations, and when we asked to include them in the delivery package, they refused, forcing us to buy an entire radio station. And there were many such subtleties in Lend-Lease, a person who was involved in converting our equipment to German captured or American radio communications equipment told me about this.
  99. +3
    2 August 2019 23: 52
    Many people wanted to know what and how the Allies supplied us.
    In his book "Lend-Lease and Northern Convoys, 1941-1945", Moscow, "St. Andrew's Flag" 1997, Mikhail Nikolaevich Suprun gives the following figures for 1941 Great Britain: Airplanes - 711 (488 - "Hurricanes": 216 - P-40 ;11- R- 39). Armored vehicles - 466 (259 - "Valentine"; 187 - "Matilda"; the rest - "Tetrarch"). Guns: anti-aircraft - 8; anti-tank - 74. Anti-tank guns - 320.
    USA: tanks - 182; airplanes - 204...
    And my native Severodvinsk (Molotovsk during the war) received the first English tanker from convoy PQ - 01 on December 1941, 3. In 1941, the Molotov port received 9 ships, including 3 tankers. Subsequently, all tankers sent to the White Sea were unloaded only in Molotovsk.
  100. +1
    3 August 2019 06: 09
    Alexei! I understand you are interested. But... you can satisfy your interest yourself, right? You type in a search engine... and everything will open to you. And the TEXT of the agreement itself and everything connected with it. But, excuse me, you want to open your mouth and let the spoon with the porridge go in there. Do you want to chew it yourself or do you want to chew it for me too? No offense, let's do it. Your Question looks exactly like this. But I will answer: EVERYTHING DESTROYED during the hostilities WAS NOT PAID FOR, LIKE EVERYTHING EATEN. What was left was returned! What did you have to pay for? For what was purchased ABOVE the list of goods offered, as well as for MACHINES and equipment. We supplied you with an oil refinery. You built it! How will you return him? This was what had to be paid for, but AFTER THE WAR. That is, Lend-Lease is a lease with deferred payment and at the same time a free loan (equipment, weapons, food), since everything destroyed during hostilities was NOT PAYABLE. By the way, a lot of people say that something was going under pressure... It’s hard to believe this, since with our primordial cunning, it was possible to save a lot of the same cars, writing them off as being destroyed in hostilities. Although simple-assness is also inherent in us, we might not have guessed it. But I have no information about this.