Operations of Japanese heavy flying boats on the Pacific

88
В stories The Second World War at sea, the actions of hydroaviation - a topic somewhat ignored. At least in comparison with aviation base or deck. Who, for example, remembers what the Soviet MBR-2 did? And even if some topic is considered “uncovered” - for example, the actions of the “Sunderlands” and “Catalin” over the Atlantic, then in fact even there will be a lot of white spots. As for aviation, which was not able to make a significant contribution to the outcome of the war, historians have one solid white spot. Even if possible, make interesting conclusions.

Operations of Japanese heavy flying boats on the Pacific

Kawanishi H8K2, or "Type 2", the only surviving specimen in the Museum of the Japanese Self-Defense Forces in Canoe

The actions of heavy multi-engine flying boats of the Japanese Imperial fleet during the Second World War - one of these topics. It partially helps that the Japanese had, without exaggeration, magnificent multi-engine seaplanes, the same Kawanishi H8K (aka “Emily”), the Americans themselves consider the best car in the class of everything that participated in that war. This slightly “saves” the situation by attracting a number of researchers, and gives us the opportunity to learn at least something on the topic.



And this “at least something” can lead us to very interesting conclusions for the future - even if this future is not ours.

In the peaceful sky of Oceania


Japan occupied the islands, now united as Micronesia, back in the 1914 year, with the beginning of the First World War. The archipelago belonged to Germany, and as an ally of Britain, Japan did not miss the chance to take their own.

In the future, its presence on the islands - both military and civilian, grew. But in order to ensure it, communications were needed, and more than one ship in three months.

The way to increase the connectivity of the Japanese possessions was the organization of air communications between the Japanese metropolis and the islands. This was all the more advantageous, which allowed a little later, to establish regular air links with Australia, or rather, to start with its territories in Papua.

In the thirties of the twentieth century, passenger hydroaviation, especially the American one, received rapid development. The reason for this was the undemanding of flying boats to the airfields - any calm harbor was an airfield. Given the need to incorporate into the single political and economic space a mass of island territories, the flights of flying boats were often the only alternative solution. In addition to the absence of problems with the basing, the flight range that was enormous for those times also worked in their favor - the massive hull of the boat usually allowed a large supply of fuel to be placed on board.

In the 1934-1935, the Japanese undertook several irregular test flights on various types of flying boats to Micronesia, the islands of which by then were a Japanese mandated territory. And in 1936, the first successful flight was made by a flying boat Kawanishi H6K. In her military version, she wore an index of "Type 97", and the pilots of the US Navy and allies knew this aircraft under the "nickname" Mavis (Mavis).


Kawanishi H6K or "Type 97" in the transport version


Since the advent of the crews of flying boats began to train in long-distance flights and reconnaissance. The planes were used to invade the airspace of the British territories, and, according to the Japanese, to put pressure on the USSR.

However, the huge range of "Type 97" was in demand for peaceful purposes.

The first operator of the "Type 97" was the Japanese airline "Airlines of Great Japan" - "Dai Nippon Koku Qais". Formally, civilian vehicles belonged, nevertheless, to the Imperial fleet, and a significant part of the aircrews were pilots of the naval reserve or simply personnel military.

"Type 97" and the atolls of Micronesia were literally made for each other. The aircraft, huge for those times, had at least a huge flight range - up to 6600 kilometers, and with a cruising speed that was quite decent for the 30s - 220 km / h. The atolls themselves, thanks to their annular form with a lagoon in the center, provided for flying boats an area protected from storms, convenient for landings and takeoffs - almost everywhere.

From the end of 1938, a couple of converted aircraft from the fleet aviation (the cars were rented) began flights on the route Yokohama-Saipan. Since the spring of 1939, a line has been added to Palau (the Caroline Islands). In 1940, the airline ordered ten more units, now not for rent, but for own use. By that time, Saipan, Palau, Truk, Ponepe, Jaluit, and even East Timor were included in the “geography” of civil flights. It was planned that flights will continue to Port Moresby. But the war did not allow these plans to materialize. But the lines Yokohama-Saipan-Palau-Timor, Yokohama-Saipan-Truk-Ponape-Jaluit and Saigon-Bangkok existed throughout the war and were "closed" only with the loss of territory.

But the main work "Type 97" did not in civil aviation.

Boats at war


The way the flying boats used the Anglo-Saxons and the Japanese were fundamental differences. The first main task of the aircraft was the detection of submarines operating on sea lanes. For this purpose, the aircraft were equipped with radars, and there were a lot of them themselves.

In Japan, the situation was different - they did not create a reliable and effective radar, they were unreliable and inefficient during the war, but they didn’t have enough resources to replicate, and there wasn’t enough resources for a mass series of flying boats either - the total number of built multi-engine boats of all types in Japan it did not even reach the 500 units. Against the background of the scale of production of Catalin alone (3305 machines), these figures did not look perfect. As a result, Japanese aircraft were deliberately useless against American submarines that deployed an unlimited underwater war in the style of Admiral Doenitz in the Pacific Ocean. During the entire war, Japanese heavy flying boats sank only seven submarines - funny figures. But they did something else.

From the first day of the war, the Japanese used their large seaplanes for the following purposes:
- patrol and reconnaissance. The planes were to detect the surface ships of the Americans and open the defense system of their bases to be captured.
- causing ultra-long bomb strikes.
- military transportation.
- destruction of single vessels and submarines.
- guidance to the target strike aircraft (at the end of the war).

It would seem - well, how can low-speed flying boats attack defended by fighters and numerous anti-aircraft guns of an air base?

But ... they could!

There are allegations that Type 97 was ready to attack American island bases on the same day that Kido Butai attacked Pearl Harbor, but the attack failed due to the inability of the Japanese command to contact aircraft and confirm the start of the war, which was required initial plan. However, they flew to the islands of Holland and Canton (as in American sources). And 12 December 1941 of the year, the air regiment (actually Kokutai, but the closest to the meaning was the air regiment) based on the Wautier Atoll carried out aerial reconnaissance of Wake Island - one of the first places where American troops fell under the Japanese blitzkrieg. 14 December, from the same place, with Votye, float fighters started, performed a successful raid. Supposedly, their pilots could receive information from the 97 Type reconnaissance aircraft.

December 15 flying boats themselves bombarded Wake and also successfully.

In the future, the practice of using flying boats as long-range bombers continued.

Since the end of December, 1941-th flying boats conducted reconnaissance around Rabaul, without loss.

In early January, 1942-th nine “Type 97” planes attacked the airfield of Wunakanau near Rabaul, destroying several Australian air force planes on the ground and damaging the drive and the runway. One of the fighters, the Australian "Wirreway" was able to take off and tried to catch up with the Japanese, but could not.

On January 16, the flying boats again attacked the airfield with fragmentation bombs and again went off without a loss.

In January, the 1942 Type 97 dropped a number of bombs on Port Moresby, with no significant effect. In the future, the raids of flying boats were mainly of reconnaissance nature.

However, the main task of flying boats was intelligence. So, it was the "Type 97" found the aircraft carrier "Lexington" 20 February 1942 of the year. In general, flights of flying boats on aerial reconnaissance gave the Japanese more than bombing raids, which rarely caused the enemy significant damage.

However, the raids continued.

At the end of 1941, the Japanese had a more advanced flying boat than the Kawanish H6K / Type 97.

It was a plane produced by the same company, Kawanishi, model H8K. The machine was codenamed "Emily" from the allies. In Japanese documents, it was designated as "Type 2". (Read more - "The best four-engine seaplane of the Second World War").




These aircraft, like the previous model, were used for bombing raids and reconnaissance. In addition, 36 machines were built as Seik's transport vehicles and were originally intended for the delivery of troops.

The first operation of the amphibians was a repeated raid on Pearl Harbor, the famous “Operation K”, conducted by 4-5 in March 1942 of the year.

The weather conditions were unsuccessful, but the plan was still impressive - the flying boats had to fly 1900 nautical miles from the Wotje Atoll in Japanese Micronesia to the French-Frigat-Sholz Atoll, belonging to the Hawaiian Islands. There, submarines were to refuel them, after which they were to attack the dock at Pearl Harbor, significantly complicating the repair of warships to the Americans. As a result, the Japanese did not succeed - only two of the five planes could fly, both of them dropped bombs due to bad weather.

The Americans, whose intelligence warned of a raid, sent a warship to the French-Frigat-Sholls - a tender of Ballard flying boats. The latter, being an obsolete converted destroyer, still posed a serious danger to seaplanes, and flights over the atoll ceased.

A few months later, one of the flying boats attempted to attack Midway. But by the time the Americans learned how to use their radar. The plane was shot down.

New aircraft, like the previous model, were actively used in Oceania for reconnaissance of island territories and long-distance bombing attacks.

We should also mention the participation of “Emily” in the operation on the Aleutian Islands. The Japanese widely used both flying boats and float fighters there, and when the evacuation of the Japanese troops began (Emily in the transport variant provided it, taking the soldiers by air) even the ship-tenders that provided the actions of the flying boats.

As the war came to an end, the operations of flying boats as bombers were continuously reduced, but the role of aerial reconnaissance grew. In this capacity, the aircraft suffered significant losses - the Americans used radars more and more widely, the exact performance characteristics of which were not known to the Japanese, and the huge multi-engined airplanes increasingly met with large fighter forces. Huge cars differed serious vitality and could stand up for themselves, especially H8K of various modifications, equipped with 20-mm guns, but the forces turned out to be unequal more and more often.


The crash of H8K by deck aircraft of the USA, real military shooting


A unique photo - a flying boat was shot with armored guns of the American amphibian "Catalina" during a patrol departure. Since it also made a photo



It happened and so


The last combat operations of flying boats were departures on target designation for suicide "one-way" attacks, carried out by ground-based bombers.

As for transport options, they were intensively used until the very end of the war.

Organization and conduct of combat operations


Flying boats were distributed by aviation compounds, called by the Japanese "Kokutai". The number of aircraft in the ground "Kokutai" was very different and changed over time. Known examples are from 24 to 100 machines.

As a rule, the entire administrative and command structure of the Kokutai was tied to its flight teams and aircraft and was transferred along with them.

The main operators of four-engine flying boats of both types were:
- 801 Kokutai. Basically was armed with "Type 97";
- 802 Kokutai. Until November 1942 th 14 th Kokutai. It was a mixed compound of heavy seaplanes and float fighters A-6M2-N, in fact - float "Zero". For a long time, the battles were fought mainly by fighters, but on October 15 1943, the fighter units were disbanded;
- 851 Kokutai (former Toko Kokutai). Formed in Taiwan as Toko Kokutai, November 1 1942 was renamed 851. He participated in the battle of Midway and one of the squadrons in the operations of the Aleuts.

Transport aircraft were also assigned to various ground bases of the Navy.


Transport flying boat, near the destroyed naval aviation base "Naval Arsenal Hiro" in Hiroshima Prefecture. The boat was assigned to this base. First days after surrender


As a rule, airplanes were based in lagoons and calm creeks on islands. In the case of the 802 Kokutai, it was about co-basing with float fighters. At the same time, the Japanese did not build any permanent structures, crews and equipment lived in tents on the beach, all facilities for storing material and technical means were temporary. Such an organization allowed the Japanese to quickly transfer air units from island to island.

A separate method of ensuring the actions of flying boats was the use of the ship-tender. In the case of the multi-engine "Kawanishi" it was ship "Akitsusima"The technical capabilities of which allowed not only supplying the aircraft with fuel, lubricants and ammunition, but also lifting them with a crane to the deck out of the water and carrying out repairs, including complex ones, such as replacing engines.


"Akitsushima"


Opportunities "Akitsusyma" allowed to provide high-intensity combat use of eight aircraft. As such, the ship was used during the removal of Japanese troops in the Aleutian Islands, in which flying boats took an active part.




Lifting and tying on the deck of "Akitsushima" flying boat 14 th (after November 1942 th - 802 th Kokutai)


Active flights of seaplanes for reconnaissance from Marshall Islands and other islands in the Pacific ended in 1944, when the Americans literally “broke into the doors” of the Japanese island bases. The fact how long the flying boats could work against the Americans literally from under their noses cannot but evoke respect.


Marines view destroyed aircraft on Mackin Island, November 1943


The war survived a very small number of Japanese flying boats. Only four of them were used by the Americans to study Japanese technology, all the other trophies that fell into their hands were destroyed.


The cab of the transport variant Н8К from the place of the radio operator.



Upper deck transport compartment. The seats are non-standard, on the production machines were benches of a simpler design.


Of all the planes that fell into American hands, only one survived to this day, H8K2 from 802-th Kokutai. The car was preserved by a miracle, and even many decades after the end of the war, the Americans did not want to give it to the Japanese, nor did they want to restore it. But in the end, the plane was saved and after years of restoration is in the Museum of the Maritime Self-Defense Forces of Japan.

Lessons from the past


Mentally, our people do not view the war in the Pacific Ocean as “their own”, although firstly the Red Army finally inclined the Japanese to surrender, secondly we destroyed almost a third of its troops and carried out strategically important after-effects operations to seize the Kurils and South Sakhalin. It is hard to imagine what would happen if the fleet could not land landing forces on these territories, and the Americans would go there. In fact, in terms of territorial acquisitions, these are our most important acquisitions made in World War II, more important than even Kaliningrad.

Moreover, it is worthwhile to reject the psychological alienation towards events in the Pacific region, typical of many Russians, and carefully study the experience of the Japanese hydro-aviation.

War in regions with low communications density, such as mountains, archipelagoes, large wetlands, deserts with few oases, etc. it has its distinctive feature that control over individual, small points means de facto control over vast spaces. Had the Japanese, for example, taken Midway, and any landing operations for the Americans would have been much more difficult.

This implies the need to capture such points as quickly as possible, faster than a stronger enemy at sea can send a fleet or aircraft to capture them. The fastest means of delivering troops is aviation. She is also the most dangerous enemy of submarines, and with her help air reconnaissance is carried out over the sea. And do not be very afraid of shipboard air defense systems. Even old Soviet aircraft, such as, for example, the Tu-95K-22, could detect the included shipborne radar from a distance of about 1300 kilometers. Now the possibility of aviation is even higher.

But waging war somewhere in the Pacific Ocean, or other regions, with archipelagoes and small islands, any belligerent will face the lack of airfields. The fact that after World War II they were built in dozens of dozens did not change anything in the same Oceania - air strikes and cruise missiles quickly leave nothing on these airfields, and delivering building materials and equipment to the islands in the case of the Pacific Ocean does not look like a simple task. Yes, and in the Caribbean builders from Severodvinsk not lucky.

At this moment, the party that has the ability to use seaplanes will unexpectedly get a head start. Atolls have not changed since the forties of the last century. And the calm lagoon in the reef ring is still not uncommon. And this means that all problems with landing on water, which are inevitable companions of marine seaplanes, “unexpectedly” disappear - and waves that can break a glider or force an airplane to stay in place by engines, and logs or barrels brought to the landing site, which can penetrate the fuselage of even the strongest amphibians - all this becomes petty and solvable problems.

But the enemy has problems coming - no air reconnaissance, no satellite reconnaissance will be able to instantly provide information on the presence or absence of aviation on each of the hundreds and thousands of islands scattered across a dense network thousands of kilometers in all directions. Especially if this aircraft is constantly moving, throwing soldiers, equipment, supplies, taking out trophies and wounded. Stocks of expensive complex and high-tech weapons in a large non-nuclear war (and, for example, both the United States and China plan to wage a non-nuclear war in the future) will be quickly spent, and completely different things will start to matter.

For example, the opportunity for one side to send troops anywhere and quickly - and the absence of such an opportunity for the other side.
And the opportunity to start producing transport, anti-submarine and other amphibious aircraft in large quantities can also mean a lot to a third party - to the one that wants to stand aside while the first two find out the relationship, and declare for dismantling under a curtain - or just to earn on military supplies.

After all, ground-based airplanes benefit from flying boats in everything absolutely - but only when there are airfields. In a war where there are none, the logic will be different.

And this is the lesson that gives us the Japanese experience of the war on seaplanes, a lesson that is relevant even today.

Naturally, all this is true for warm latitudes, where there is no ice and less excitement at sea.

Also of theoretical interest is the hypothetical use of hydroplanes for strikes on the United States. Theoretically, Japan, using aircraft tenders could deliver flying boats close enough to US territory, so that they could attack the American territory itself from an unexpected direction, and (after that, let's apply here) - not with bombs, but sea mines.

Such operations could have a very interesting effect. After all, no matter how clumsy and large Japanese flying boats were, and their attacks on land targets were mostly lossless, and their effect was blurred only by the inability of the Japanese to correctly identify targets. In general, the boats flew suddenly and flew away without a loss, and so it was quite a long time. The island territories, which can be attacked from any direction and where it is commonplace to deploy defense in depth, were quite vulnerable to attack by any aircraft, even flying boats. It is also worth thinking about. As well as a similar never-implemented strategy "for the Americans."

In general, the Japanese flying boats could not have the same influence on the outcome of the war as similar Allied aircraft. But the experience of their combat use, of course, deserves to be studied in our time.
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  1. +4
    26 June 2019 19: 05
    Thank you interesting article
    1. +1
      26 June 2019 21: 44
      Please glad you liked it.
      1. -1
        27 June 2019 16: 23
        it would be nice to release an article on how the Japanese were preparing reconnaissance naval aviation
        what kind of machines and tactics used, important and meaningless feats.
        1. -1
          27 June 2019 16: 34
          I will consider I have an idea to collect data on the work of the ship float planes and how they carried out artillery guidance on the target.
          I will collect material, I will write.
  2. +5
    26 June 2019 20: 39
    As always, a good article on extensive factual material. Just make a clarification.
    Kawanishi H8K2, or "Type 2", the only surviving specimen in the Museum of the Japanese Self-Defense Forces in Canoe
    Japan Maritime Self Defense Force is located in Kura, Hiroshima Prefecture.
    And the Kawanishi H8K is located in the Kanoya Air Base Museum, Kanoi, Kagoshima Prefecture.
  3. 0
    26 June 2019 20: 40
    detect the included ship radar from a distance of about 1300 kilometers

    Since when did the over-the-horizon radar appear on the ships?

    ground planes beat flying boats in absolutely everything - but only when there are airfields. In a war where there are none, the logic will be different.

    ... and where there are no hydroaerodromes, the logic is the same. A seaplane requires a well-developed infrastructure, which in vulnerability is equal to a land aerodrome. In general, you can’t sit in the atoll.

    for warm latitudes, where (...) less disturbance at sea.

    Enchanting.

    And how to unload, for example, a tank without the ability to approach the bare shore? The draft of such a seaplane will be solid. "Pachimuta", in Normandy even medium tanks could not really land without the help of these "Mulberry Harbors". And the author "according to the terms of the problem" has no infrastructure.
    And by the way, where did the author see the atolls surrounded by a high bank? And how many atolls with lagoons with a diameter of, say, 5 km and a depth of 3-5 meters across the entire area of ​​the lagoon?
    1. +1
      26 June 2019 21: 55
      Since when did the over-the-horizon radar appear on the ships?


      Directly a topic for an anecdote of some kind. What do you think is happening with the electromagnetic wave that "went beyond the radio horizon"? Has she disappeared or what?

      Or did you blindly take for granted the school textbook of physics regarding the distribution of VHF?
      This is you in vain then))))
    2. +2
      26 June 2019 22: 27
      ... and where there are no airdrome, there is the same logic. A seaplane requires a sickly infrastructure, which is as sensitive as a land aerodrome.


      For example.




      And how to unload, for example, a tank without the ability to approach the bare shore? The draft of such a seaplane will be solid. "Pachimuta", in Normandy even medium tanks could not really land without the help of these "Mulberry Harbors". And the author "according to the terms of the problem" has no infrastructure.


      Tanks in any way, but military transport and landing forces are not reduced to them.

      And by the way, where did the author see atolls surrounded by a high bank?


      And where did I write about such atolls? Are you arguing with yourself or what?
      1. 0
        27 June 2019 06: 03
        Directly a topic for an anecdote of some kind. What do you think is happening with the electromagnetic wave that "went beyond the radio horizon"? Has she disappeared or what?

        Or did you blindly take for granted the school textbook of physics regarding the distribution of VHF?
        This is you in vain then))))

        What's "in vain"? If you think that VHF is refracted in the ionosphere every time, then you are very mistaken. In addition, the radars operate at higher frequencies.

        For example.

        For example"? This is not a hydro aerodrome, it is just a playground. He sat down and flew away. Even the fuel and lubricants warehouse is not visible. A normal hydro aerodrome is as complex and vulnerable as a land airfield under an aircraft of the same size.

        Tanks in any way, but military transport and landing forces are not reduced to them.

        Of course, they are not reduced, they simply are not carried out. Well, all right, let the landing party be all of the suicide bombers and land without tanks. But still. need cars, guns, a bunch of ammunition.

        And by the way, where did the author see atolls surrounded by a high bank?

        ***

        And where did I write about such atolls? Are you arguing with yourself or what?


        In the place that the seaplane can hide from a storm in the lagoon. Sapienti sat.
  4. +2
    26 June 2019 21: 12
    Kawanishi (H-8K Emil) flying boat with Type 6 Mk-4 Mod 3 radar. Initially, the radar, designated “Type 6 Mark 4 Mod 3 (Type 64),” was intended for Kawanishi H8K2 Emily reconnaissance flying boats. He worked on a wavelength of 2 m (150 MHz) and with a power of 3 kW had a detection range of up to 130 km. The main drawback of the Type 1942 created in August 64 was its heavy weight (over 110 kg). Gradually, the weight was reduced and the radar, made in the amount of 2000 copies, was later installed on medium Mitsubishi G4M1 Model 11 "Betty" bombers and Nakajima B5N1 "Kate" torpedo bombers.
    1. +1
      26 June 2019 21: 48
      In reality, the radars still appeared on the Mavis, but the characteristics were let down, and there were few airplanes, in general, they failed to oppose submarines.
  5. +4
    26 June 2019 21: 58
    Thanks to the author! hi I read the article with interest, there was completely unfamiliar material to me. Now I met. smile
  6. +2
    26 June 2019 23: 11
    It is not entirely clear how this rather specific experience is applicable in modern conditions.
    1. -6
      27 June 2019 01: 59
      You very tactfully put it - this is a rather specific nonsense of Mr. Timokhin, spoiling the impressions of a quite interesting article from the point of view of naval history.
      1. +1
        27 June 2019 08: 03
        The development of flying boats is nonsense? Delivery of goods to the islands with their help is nonsense? Sober mind is nonsense? Nepanyatna
        1. 0
          27 June 2019 11: 34
          Quote: Earthshaker
          The development of flying boats is nonsense?

          Watching in what sense. After the 1950s, it turned out that most classes of flying boats were out of work. Of the more or less large LL designed from scratch, perhaps only CL-215 / -415 should be named. Others did not succeed. Be-12 also does not count. Few released, did not receive development, did not fly to the Civil Air Fleet ...
          Delivery of goods to the islands with their help is nonsense?

          The first extinct class of LL, just "large transport LL". In those rare places where transport seaplanes are in demand (some archipelagos, lake / river regions, bushflying places ...), mostly "chilled" land light aircraft on floats - no larger than "Twin Otter", can handle it.
          Even during the war in the Pacific Ocean, the Americans did not launch their hydroplaner in a series, they used either floating amphibious landings or land gliders, although it would seem ... Strukov after WWII offered a minimally redesigned C-123 in an amphibious version. And the aerodynamics are better than those of the LL, and the differences from those already mastered by the industry and the flight composition of the C-123 are minimal (i.e., a relatively inexpensive aircraft). No, even he didn’t succeed.
          Conway with its Tradewind (24 tons of cargo, 4000 km of range; these are good indicators) also did not succeed in terms of orders. Even from the military.
        2. +1
          27 June 2019 19: 34
          Quote: Earthshaker
          The development of flying boats is nonsense? Cargo delivery to the islands with their help is nonsense? Sober reason is nonsense?

          The first two points are yes. You see, in those conditions it is possible that the use of flying boats gave advantages (especially in the Pacific theater, where the average storm is weaker, the climate is warmer, and the islands are a lot). However, in a modern war - like the same possible confrontation between the USA and China - flying boats are not needed. Speaking for a long time, just a basic factor - the lack of bases, at least like Japan’s in modern China, generally lack of island bases, while the Pacific Ocean is globally (globally, Karl!) Controlled by the US Navy.
      2. -1
        27 June 2019 11: 06
        Brede is one of the symptoms you have, do not rush to everyone
  7. 0
    26 June 2019 23: 24
    Boats are of course gorgeous! The whole liner. Where only the Japanese took so much aluminum, it’s possible to build 30 fighters instead of Emil alone.
  8. +2
    27 June 2019 00: 18
    "Enough, Dunya, to cry and sob ... what has passed, not to remember!" Seaplanes, although they took a place in aviation, still "did not make a splash"! The greater success of hydroaviation in the past is explained by the "underdevelopment" of the "traditional" aviation of that time. And now there are positions that are steadily occupied by seaplanes (Be-200, for example), but attempts to distribute "Beshki" throughout the "world in a large number" failed ... yes, and in Russia there are "not very many" of them! And in modern times there is an alternative: ekranoplans! It should be borne in mind that ekranoplans are divided into 2 "categories": "true" ekranoplans and ekranolets (for every taste ...) But here, too, there are "pluses" and "minuses! So far, the" minuses "outweigh ...
    1. +2
      27 June 2019 09: 11
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      there is also an alternative: ekranoplanes! It should be borne in mind that ekranoplans are subdivided into 2 "categories": "true" ekranoplans and ekranoplans (for every taste ...) But here there are also "pluses" and "minuses"! So far, the "cons" outweigh ...

      The ekranoplan has large seaworthiness restrictions. Moreover, along the entire route. A seaplane can take off with a certain excitement and then it already does not care about the excitement at sea. And the ekranoplane along the entire route depends on the height of the waves. And the ekranolet is nothing more than a heavily weighted low-altitude seaplane - the Orlyonok was dropped, exceeding the ceiling, and it is only 3 km away. WIGs are good for tundra and winter NSR. Not for other oceans and land.
  9. -2
    27 June 2019 01: 57
    "The hypothetical use of seaplanes for strikes against the United States is also of theoretical interest." - Mr. Timokhin, why throw out hypothetical nonsense in front of readers? The naive can really get infected. Simply amazing! When Andrey from Chelyabinsk and Timokhin write on historical topics, everything is within the framework of sanity, but as soon as they hit the ignorant area, get bogged down in the naval or some other strategy and ... complete cranks.
    1. -1
      27 June 2019 11: 05
      "The hypothetical use of seaplanes for strikes against the United States is also of theoretical interest."


      About the fact that the Japanese are on actually flew to the American territory You do not know, right? Only on significantly smaller float planes launched from a much more vulnerable (in that particular situation, and not in general) carrier.

      It is with impunity and.
      1. -1
        28 June 2019 01: 44
        The Japanese flew, as you yourself deigned to write, only until there was a radar station. Then they stopped and began to fall into the sea, for some reason ... Well, I don’t understand your reasoning about using even the beautiful Be-200 in modern warfare for "raids". Even if you yourself decide to tie a kamikaze bandage on your forehead. The modern seaplane aviation of the Navy has a very clearly defined niche of application and it is not necessary to powder the brains by transferring seaplanes into some kind of "strategic" weapon of a hypothetical war, which will never happen with our prayers. And in the more likely war with China, which is also very undesirable, the TF seaplane will have something to do important and necessary besides the bombing of Beijing.
  10. 0
    27 June 2019 07: 37
    And judging by the video, he did not have defensive weapons.
    1. 0
      27 June 2019 11: 36
      No, flashes from return fire are sometimes visible.
      1. 0
        27 June 2019 13: 23
        I didn’t notice. Why without tracers, like on a fighter? And the fighter is too greyhound for rapprochement. request
        1. 0
          27 June 2019 13: 27
          Look carefully at the aircraft's fuselage, for example, from 10 to 12 for a second, in the next frame of arrows the flash also gives you a short burst.

          These aircraft were very heavily armed.
          1. +1
            27 June 2019 15: 22
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Look carefully at the aircraft's fuselage, for example, from 10 to 12 for a second, in the next frame of arrows the flash also gives you a short burst.

            Personally, in this shot I see at first a flash in the tail of an American bullet and a gray haze stretching from it, then the nose of the fighter (along with the camera) goes higher and the same few flashes from hits are visible on the wing of the boat, with a characteristic smoky train.
            The shooter should be there. But he is silent. Maybe killed.
            1. -1
              27 June 2019 15: 49
              I do not think that the bullet will give such a flash. Here is a short line from the 20 mm gun - probably quite.
          2. 0
            27 June 2019 15: 33
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            These aircraft were very heavily armed.

            Cons are not mine, but why did you keep silent about armament in the article?
            1. -1
              27 June 2019 15: 50
              I gave links to technical descriptions. But he did not repeat, why?
              1. 0
                27 June 2019 15: 51
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                And did not repeat, why?

                The article, although interesting, seems incomplete. My opinion. hi
                1. -1
                  27 June 2019 15: 52
                  Now do not alter.
                  1. 0
                    27 June 2019 15: 54
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Now do not alter.

                    But we can draw conclusions for the future. wink
    2. +1
      27 June 2019 17: 05
      Maximum - up to 5 20 mm guns and 5 - 7,7 mm machine guns. The transport options probably removed most of the weapons.
  11. +1
    27 June 2019 07: 57
    Quote: Avis-bis
    detect the included ship radar from a distance of about 1300 kilometers

    Since when did the over-the-horizon radar appear on the ships?

    Repeat physics with geometry. Why overseas. 1) There, a conventional radar elevated 10 km has a radio horizon .... much larger than ground ... 2) The author wrote that in passive mode the detection range of other people's radiation is greater than using its reflected signal.
    1. -1
      27 June 2019 08: 59
      Quote: Carib

      Repeat physics with geometry.

      Teach your wife cabbage soup.
      conventional 10 km radar

      Ship ???
      has a horizon .... much larger than ground

      400 km 3+ times less than 1300 km.
      The author wrote that in passive mode the detection range of other people's radiation is greater than using its reflected signal.

      "Learn physics with geometry". The sum does not change from a change in the places of the terms - the "alien radiation" of high frequency does not bend beyond the horizon either. To have a radio horizon = 1300 km, you need to be at an altitude of 130 km. See what dimensions real over-the-horizon radars have.
      1. +2
        27 June 2019 11: 03
        "Learn physics with geometry". The sum does not change from a change in the places of the terms - the "alien radiation" of high frequency does not bend beyond the horizon either. To have a radio horizon = 1300 km, you need to be at an altitude of 130 km. See what dimensions real over-the-horizon radars have.


        You do not swing illiteracy, funny. Shipborne radars mainly operate in the cm-band, and such radio waves are characterized by tropospheric refraction, which allows detecting such radiation from a long distance.

        Two for you.

        Before you try to be clever, you have to study the question properly.

        Just in case - ~ 1300 km, this is a real combat episode of the Pacific Fleet MA in 1993, a flight to detect AB "Nimitz" with two pairs of Tu-95K-22.

        Well, the rest you have from the same series, too lazy to comment even.
        1. -1
          27 June 2019 11: 16
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Shipborne radars mainly operate in the cm-band, and tropospheric refraction is characteristic of such radio waves, which makes it possible to detect such radiation from a large distance.


          How funny you are. :) Before you demonstrate your ignorance, go to school. And then, when you learn Russian, read this:
          The first distinguishing feature of the propagation of centimeter-wave radio waves is the almost complete absence of diffraction and straightforward distribution. The earth's surface has practically no noticeable effect on the propagation of these radio waves, which is explained by the use of narrowly directed antennas in this range with a radiation pattern from a few degrees to fractions of a degree wide (mainly aperture antennas). Second distinctive The peculiarity of the propagation of microwaves is a large absorption of energy in the atmosphere., especially during rain, snow, hoarfrost, dust, fog, hail, as well as during sudden movements of layers of heated and cold air.

          Just in case - ~ 1300 km is a real combat episode

          This is anything but a ship radar. Or a rare combination of factors that repeat once a decade, to count on which in a war is as stupid as trying to hide from a storm in the lagoon of the atoll ..

          Well, the rest you have from the same series, too lazy to comment even.

          And now the same thing, but in front of the mirror. And with an expression. About ten times.
          1. +1
            27 June 2019 11: 33
            The propagation of radio waves in the troposphere. Refraction of radio waves. Terrestrial radio waves propagate along the surface of the Earth in the troposphere. The conductivity of the troposphere s for frequencies corresponding to radio waves (with the exception of millimeter waves) is almost equal to 0; The dielectric constant e and, therefore, the refractive index n are functions of air pressure and temperature, as well as water vapor pressure. At the surface of the Earth n »1,0003. The variation of e and n with altitude depends on meteorological conditions. Usually, e and n decrease, and the phase velocity u increases with height. This leads to a curvature of the radio beam (refraction of radio waves, see fig.). If a wave propagates in the troposphere at an angle to the horizon, the front of which coincides with the straight line ab (Fig. 9), then due to the fact that the wave propagates at higher speeds than in the lower layers of the troposphere, the upper part of the wave front overtakes the lower and front waves turns (the beam is bent). Since n decreases with height, radio waves deviate towards the Earth. This phenomenon, called normal tropospheric refraction, is promoted by R. p. out of line of sight, since due to refraction, waves can bend around the bulge of the Earth. However, in practice, this effect can play a role only for VHF, since for longer wavelengths, diffraction prevails. Meteorological conditions can weaken or increase refraction compared to normal.



            Losers.
            1. 0
              27 June 2019 12: 07
              ... and the effect is triggered only if the "correspondents" wish:
              Re-emission of energy occurs at the intersection of the radiation patterns of the transmitting and receiving antennas.



              That is, as I said, "with a rare combination of factors." A one-off incident in so many decades. An emitting enemy will not catch the enemy antenna pattern to reveal their presence. A microwave wave propagates in a straight line and under normal conditions will not be visible further than 400-500 km.
              So, to the mirror, my dear, to the mirror.
              1. -1
                27 June 2019 12: 57
                No, not to the mirror.

                Move your picture. The dead zone under the scattering zone will also move.

                And it is small, for an aircraft flying at a speed of 600-700 km / h 8000-9000 meters, tracking the signal from a point surface source, the parameters of which are known in advance, all this will not be a problem at all.
                Well, there is a "spot" at sea level, 100 km away, at the level of which nothing is detected or intercepted - it's okay.

                Well, at least you know about this effect. laughing

                Live and learn...

                So we get to the lagoons, and to the point that the troops without tanks can trick, right? laughing
                1. 0
                  27 June 2019 13: 06
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  No, not to the mirror.

                  To the mirror, tiareteg, to the mirror ...
                  That's right, that from the point. The locator diagram is very narrow, to catch it in such conditions is to "hit the tip of the needle".
                  And, in general, radio operators, apparently, also do not know anything "about this effect", they are busy with some kind of HF, SDV, over-the-horizon radars, satellite communications and similar repeaters. Fools, huh? Take and turn on the "atmospheric VHF refraction" and the whole short. Compact, economical and inexpensive.
                  Tiareteg ... He pulled one example by the ears and made a "general case" out of it.
                  1. -1
                    27 June 2019 13: 13
                    The locator diagram is very narrow, to catch it in such conditions is to "hit the tip of the needle".


                    All parameters of the radar of the enemy and the possible nature of signal distortion in the atmosphere is known in advance.

                    And, in general, radio operators, apparently, also know nothing "about this effect"


                    For your own quote, there is a link that describes quite well what radio operators know about the effect. And how to use.

                    Generally speaking, it is mainly used this way.

                    And you, it turns out also a liar - pulled out a quote from an article about radio communications, and then hinting at radio operators. An amazing combination of qualities must be said.
                    1. 0
                      27 June 2019 13: 24
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      All parameters of the radar of the enemy and the possible nature of signal distortion in the atmosphere is known in advance.

                      And what does it give? What antenna did they detect him with? Omnidirectional or what? And catching one pointed antenna with another pointed antenna located beyond the horizon is a dead lesson.

                      For your own quote, there is a link that describes quite well what radio operators know about the effect. And how to use.

                      ... but, for that reason, not everywhere. Patchima?

                      And you, it turns out also a liar - pulled out a quote from an article about radio communications, and then hint at radio operators.

                      Take it easy with the words.
                      I was not hinting at anyone. I gave the condition under which this effect works, taking it about the article about radio communication, so what? And for some reason, radio operators do not use it at every step. Even on the ground. And even when one "correspondent" is in the air ... This effect works either extremely rarely, or, if a practically working effect is needed, with the full assistance of both parties. So I can imagine how they negotiate with "Nimitz" before departure ... :) "Gais! Shine only in this sector, we will approach from the northeast!" :)
                      1. -1
                        27 June 2019 15: 21
                        So I can imagine how they negotiate with "Nimitz" before departure ... :) "Gais! Shine only in this sector, we will approach from the northeast!" :)


                        Aircraft are capable of conducting a long search at a very high speed compared to a ship, especially in a group. Sooner or later, one pair ends up "in the same place" - then the question of determining the course to which one must turn to continue the search becomes purely technical.

                        And this is how it is done.
                      2. -1
                        27 June 2019 17: 47
                        Quote: timokhin-aa

                        Aircraft are capable of conducting a long search at a very high speed compared to a ship, especially in a group. Sooner or later, one pair ends up "in the same place" - then the question of determining the course to which one must turn to continue the search becomes purely technical.

                        And this is how it is done.


                        laughing
                        Oooo! ..
                        laughing
                      3. 0
                        27 June 2019 19: 36
                        Run out of arguments - began mooing? Well, so be it.
                        Nevertheless, I remind you that in the expression "leave the last word" the key is "word", not "last". laughing

                        I also remind you that smart people, unlike stupid people, never persist to the end in their mistakes.

                        But, of course, you can mumble something else instead. laughing
                      4. -1
                        27 June 2019 19: 52
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Run out of arguments - began mooing? Well, so be it.

                        Something from you I have not seen sensible arguments from the very beginning, except for a bare theory, which you really do not understand. How much does the beam bend with this refraction? How much does the horizon increase? 0,5%? Or as much as 5%? :) Only without wagging. With numbers. You didn’t even understand the difference between one effect of horizontal contact (say, refraction is significant and adds 5% :)) and more real and long-range - with two antennas, which I brought in and which really works. So it's too early for you, sir, to teach others.
                        Well, the posting that caused the reaction that amused you so much is generally an extravaganza: a crowd of planes hovering over the ocean hoping to catch an effect, the probability of which is "zero point, fucking tenths", and then starts hanging around in search of a radiator. "For a long time", yeah ... The airships are ...
                        Well, and how often does this method actually work? To make the beam bend over the horizon as much as 1000+ km? Only specifically, without hunting tales about the only case mentioned. Which probably was not there.
                      5. -1
                        27 June 2019 21: 32
                        Something I didn’t see from you was sensible arguments from the very beginning, except for the bare theory, which you don’t really understand. How much does the ray bend with this refraction? How much does the radio horizon increase?


                        Even according to my first quote, it is written that these parameters are not constant, and it is written what they depend on.

                        In an Internet full of literature on sabzh, do not be lazy.
                      6. -1
                        28 June 2019 06: 39
                        Even on my first quote it says that these parameters are inconsistent

                        Even "without the first quote" it is clear that all this is unstable, which I have said more than once, but some need to be repeated ten times.

                        But here one scribbler here proposes to bet on this effect in real combat work:
                        do not be very afraid of shipboard air defense systems. Even old Soviet planes, such as, for example, the Tu-95K-22, could detect an activated ship radar from a distance of about 1300 kilometers. Now aviation capabilities are even higher.

                        I’m afraid that if this activist gets into trouble with an article about electronic warfare, he will propose involving solar storms and ionospheric vibrations in the service of the relevant troops.
                      7. -1
                        28 June 2019 18: 21
                        Read the textbooks, there for all non-constant parameters all necessary coefficients are given. And this effect is never zero. Under no circumstances.
                        In the earth's atmosphere at least.
  12. 0
    27 June 2019 09: 27
    Quote: Avis-bis

    has a horizon .... much larger than ground

    400 km 3+ times less than 1300 km.
    "Learn physics with geometry". The sum does not change from a change in the places of the terms - the "alien radiation" of high frequency does not bend beyond the horizon either. To have a radio horizon = 1300 km, you need to be at an altitude of 130 km. See what dimensions real over-the-horizon radars have.

    I agree, I was wrong, distracted .... The only over-the-horizon radar has not only large antennas but also fundamentally different frequencies (HF) that are reflected from the ionosphere, stratosphere ... The microwave will not be reflected.
    1. 0
      27 June 2019 11: 17
      Quote: Carib
      The only beyond-the-horizon radar has not only large antennas but also fundamentally different frequencies (HF) which are reflected from the ionosphere, stratosphere ...

      By itself. Therefore, they go beyond the horizon. Hence the dimensions of the antennas.
  13. 0
    27 June 2019 11: 16
    It would seem - well, how can low-speed flying boats attack defended by fighters and numerous anti-aircraft guns of an air base?
    But ... they could!
    And on December 12, 1941, an air regiment (actually Kokutai, but closest to meaning - an air regiment), based on Votier Atoll, carried out aerial reconnaissance of Wake Island - one of the first places where American troops came under Japanese blitzkrieg. December 14, from the same place, with Vote, float fighters launched, having completed a successful raid. Presumably, their pilots could receive information from the Type 97 reconnaissance.
    December 15 flying boats themselves bombarded Wake and also successfully.

    Wake's example is not entirely relevant. The fact is that reconnaissance and raids of flying boats on the island were carried out on a significantly weakened defense that survived the 36 G3M raid on December 8 (8 of 12 Wildcats were destroyed) and the landing on December 11.
    Moreover, there was no normal long-term defense on Wake (EMNIP, under pre-war agreements). The island was defended by the Marine Defense Battalion, a fortified artillery battalion of the marine corps intended for the rapid deployment of temporary coastal defense captured from the enemy or newly equipped bases and armed with semi-stationary and mobile systems.
    1. 0
      27 June 2019 11: 34
      Well, the boat on a strong defense and not thrown. What Wake, what other bombings, the calculation has always been either the weakness of the enemy or surprise.
  14. 0
    27 June 2019 11: 39
    But the enemy’s problems come - no air reconnaissance, no satellite reconnaissance will be able to instantly provide information on the presence or absence of aviation on each of hundreds and thousands of islands scattered by a dense network thousands of kilometers in all directions.

    As far as I understand, seaplanes will have to be based without using communications, radar and all radio-emitting? Because otherwise, the basing will be quickly revealed by means of RTR. Standard Procedure: Emitter Detect, Position, Classify, Transfer Up. And after several iterations a set of classified radiation sources appears in the base / on the map, which allows classifying their location as an "airfield".
    1. -1
      27 June 2019 12: 59
      Well, the ships in the same mode will have to walk))))

      As there Admiral Mastin said - in the mode of "electromagnetic silence".
      1. 0
        27 June 2019 13: 05
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Well, the ships in the same mode will have to walk))))

        As there Admiral Mastin said - in the mode of "electromagnetic silence".

        So the ship can go in silence mode. But try to enter it into the database and moor in this mode. smile
        Landing a seaplane is the same entrance to the base and mooring. Only speeds are multiple and the aircraft is much flatter than the ship.
        So you can land an airplane in silence mode only during the day in simple meteo. And even then, it is not a fact that the earth will not have to get in touch with the board, forbidding landing or changing course. Landing a heavy seaplane without the use of drives and communication with the ground - this is also hemorrhoids.
        1. 0
          27 June 2019 13: 14
          Well, you know that before there were no landing drives, and the ships were without radio and without radar. And moored by eye, even steam)))) ...
          1. 0
            27 June 2019 15: 58
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Well, you know that before there were no approach drives

            It is still there, only this is the level of Fat Tier Aero. Transportation of grayling to the nearest regional center. Without radio electronics, you can’t take anything serious and put it away.
            1. -1
              27 June 2019 16: 01
              The most serious thing is, for example, the OSPN evacuation from enemy territory by plane from a flat dirt ground.
              The most serious things just without electronics are made - without the ground in the flight zone naturally.
              1. 0
                28 June 2019 10: 48
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                The most serious thing is, for example, the evacuation of OSPN from enemy territory
                I think it was a question of mass transshipment of cargo during the landing, and not about secret operations. The fact is that you are a person close to maritime affairs, and I am a person close to aviation. So, if you want to bring and unload a lot of something - in modern conditions you will not do without radio electronics. You will be forced to go on the air to control air traffic both on voice channels and to turn on RSBN and beacons. Without this, your wards will be killed (in the sense of the earth and each other). The same applies to mass flights from the decks of ships.
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                The most serious things just without electronics are made - without the ground in the flight zone naturally.
                No, they are not. You again now remember how ours lost AUG in the ocean when they quickly moved to our shores. That's right. It is possible. And in a combat situation, such cases are also known, for example, during the invasion of Grenada, the American compound actively radiating went along the route of the allegedly upcoming campaign, and then abruptly switched to radio silence and changed course and went to Grenada overnight. This is also true. But, such maneuvers provide operational or strategic surprise, but not tactical. Having already arrived in the database area, they will include everything that is needed, otherwise simply deck aircraft will not be able to work. A modern airplane or helicopter without ground control and without automatic approach systems simply cannot land. You can still take off. It’s impossible to sit down. And with all the perfection of modern navigation aids, the presence of radio beacons on which you can navigate preferably even in the area of ​​a route or strike. Well, if the target is such that the aircraft’s own ANN displays it in the 10x10 km area and visually the target cannot be undetected. For example, the goal is an airfield, port, or factory. But if our goals are tanks, convoys of vehicles, positions on the terrain - the accuracy of output by autonomous on-board means is not enough, it is advisable to have beacons along which you can specify your place on the route, especially when the weather is bad.
                1. -1
                  28 June 2019 18: 24
                  Well here it was a question of transportation and small in scale, moreover. One atoll is conditionally 5x4 km. Any modern military aircraft INS will lead to such a goal without problems.

                  Next question in landing.
  15. 0
    27 June 2019 14: 58
    Many thanks! Very interesting for me is the new page of the Pacific War!
    1. -1
      27 June 2019 15: 22
      Please glad you liked it.
      1. 0
        27 June 2019 15: 27
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        glad you liked it

        then a little criticism wink - it’s a pity that there are no complete performance characteristics of the aircraft - part of the flight is true in the text and a link to the article, but the table with performance characteristics would have decorated the work, because it’s a transporter - that’s the mass of the load ...
        Yes, I also really liked that you talked about mobile-based aircraft and brought the data of the vessel! love You do not know - was it one?
        1. -1
          27 June 2019 15: 50
          One thing. Planned three, but did not.
  16. -1
    27 June 2019 16: 25
    Quote: Avis-bis
    how to unload, for example, a tank without the ability to approach the bare coast?

    atolls often have a very convenient beach for unloading
    I saw this in the dock. a film about katalin.
    1. 0
      27 June 2019 16: 36
      Almost always. Atoll is a reef with all the consequences.
    2. 0
      27 June 2019 18: 02
      Quote: yehat

      atolls often have a very convenient beach for unloading
      I saw this in the dock. a film about katalin.

      Yes, with little things, class "Catalina" - no questions asked. She is not very lucky, sits shallowly, comes close (to the shore). Two dozen infantrymen with full gear is its maximum. You can't unload anything heavier than a machine gun. Well, okay, let the dismantled 76-mm assault gun. I don't remember the brand. Such a short-barreled; assembled - the size of a pony. In this respect, even the CG-4 is better - it will land directly on land.
      And try to approach the unequipped shore on something the size of a Tradewind and unload something at least the size of a Willis. Not to mention armored personnel carriers, howitzers and tanks.

      As you can see, a pier is required. And on the coral atolls the descent of the bottom is very gentle. If the island is volcanic, then, of course, a heavy hydroplane can come close, you can’t argue.
      1. 0
        27 June 2019 20: 09
        And try to approach the unequipped shore on something the size of a Tradewind and unload something at least the size of a Willis. Not to mention armored personnel carriers, howitzers and tanks.


        Sure, not a problem.
        Time.

        Two.

        Three

        Four.


        Will go?

        But working out the unloading of the truck with the layout.


        Few? Or need necessarily Willis laughing

        Well, how many times a person must screw up before he realizes that he personally can’t argue?
        laughing laughing laughing
        1. -1
          27 June 2019 20: 24
          In principle, it will. They made a good boat.
          But can I speak or not - it's not up to you.
          1. 0
            27 June 2019 21: 27
            Well, Willis, to the heap.


            But can I speak or not - it's not up to you.


            Not me, you. People look at you later.
          2. -2
            27 June 2019 21: 31
            You are right, not Timokhin - the approach of a heavy seaplane to the coast is possible only from the side of deep water, otherwise the plane will damage its fuselage on the coral reef (the fuselage is not made of thick ship steel, but from a thin aviation duralumin).

            The approach to the islands with an open coastline is also impossible due to the constant reeling of the ocean swell with a wave height of up to 3 meters.

            As a result, in Oceania, the possibility of approaching seaplanes to the coast exists only inside the lagoons of atolls, in which there are no coral reefs. And there are a limited number of such places with a suitable lagoon size for take-off / landing of heavy hydroplanes in the Pacific Ocean.

            PS Timokhin simply never visited the atolls, which he tries to judge by the pictures of the beaches laughing
            1. -1
              28 June 2019 18: 26
              As a result, in Oceania, the possibility of approaching seaplanes to the coast exists only inside the lagoons of atolls, in which there are no coral reefs.


              So the article about is laughing
  17. 0
    27 June 2019 16: 40
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    I will consider I have an idea to collect data on the work of the ship float planes and how they carried out artillery guidance on the target.
    I will collect material, I will write.

    there is one tragedy in this topic - Japanese pilots of naval aviation for the war many times could not convey really important information that could radically change the course of battles. I can’t even imagine disappointment - to prepare a high-class specialist, make him a good plane, fly to the right place, he will fly there risking not returning, skillfully hide and find what he needs, go on the air ... and no one will hear him. And then, when his avik or base is destroyed, he will choose all the fuel and just fall into the sea and drown, clearly realizing that he has fulfilled his duty to the end and was useless.
    1. 0
      27 June 2019 21: 30
      Abstracted from pilots of float ship planes, then professionals in naval aviation were knocked out in the first year. Over the 1942 year, the Japanese lost about 70% of those with whom carrier-based aircraft began the war.
      The Americans were literally exterminated in 1944 during their offensive.

      Well, everything is like.

      And the pilots of the ship's seaplanes were always a total minority, one of the most prepared, but very small. And they completely fought as long as the fleet was at sea.

      And they had interesting episodes, at the beginning of the war, of course, until massively radar appeared.
  18. 0
    27 June 2019 16: 49
    Quote: Avis-bis
    and under normal conditions it will not be visible beyond 400-500km.

    that's just the conditions are constantly changing and there are windows when VHF from Novosibirsk is caught in Israel
    so my classmate performed a master of sports.
    but it’s not necessary to take much time for the bearing.
    1. 0
      27 June 2019 18: 06
      Quote: yehat
      Quote: Avis-bis
      and under normal conditions it will not be visible beyond 400-500km.

      that's just the conditions are constantly changing and there are windows

      I wrote about this. The sadness is that one can count on such a confluence of factors in a war ... Well, it’s extremely unwise (he softened it as best he could), don’t you think? Such passages are extremely rare. Several times a year. And "VHF" is a very loose concept. Your friend worked in the "160MHz" band. And the radars operate at 1-3 GHz. All this is "VHF".
  19. -1
    27 June 2019 18: 19
    Quote: Avis-bis
    All this is "VHF".

    I'm afraid, in addition to these 3 letters, I can add little to the topic)))
    I have a different specialization in physics.
    1. 0
      27 June 2019 19: 54
      Quote: yehat
      Quote: Avis-bis
      All this is "VHF".

      I'm afraid, in addition to these 3 letters, I can add little to the topic)))
      I have a different specialization in physics.

      Yes, I'm not a radio operator either, I'm on "bolts and nuts". Simply, formally, the radars also operate in the VHF range, but the different ends of this range are very different in their properties.
  20. -1
    27 June 2019 18: 28
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Well, you are aware that before there were no approach drives, and the ships were operating without a radio and without radar. And moored by eye

    ships and airplanes actively used lighthouses, markings, lanterns and other signs
    without it, even in an obvious situation, there was a risk to please somewhere.
    for seaplanes a little easier - they quickly lose speed when landing, and when taking off, you usually already know exactly what and where.
    1. -1
      27 June 2019 20: 10
      ships and airplanes actively used lighthouses, markings, lanterns and other signs
      without it, even in an obvious situation, there was a risk to please somewhere.


      Was.
      But now everything is simpler - there is at least the same INS.
  21. -1
    28 June 2019 13: 21
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Abstracted from pilots of float ship planes, then professionals in naval aviation were knocked out in the first year. Over the 1942 year, the Japanese lost about 70% of those with whom carrier-based aircraft began the war.
    The Americans were literally exterminated in 1944 during their offensive.

    Well, everything is like.

    the fact of the matter is that the scouts were not knocked out until the end of the war - they remained at a high personnel level.
    1. -1
      28 June 2019 18: 27
      This is yes. Remained. In general, an extraordinary amount was required of these pilots.
  22. 0
    23 August 2019 10: 18
    Good article, except for the absolutely wrong conclusion at the end.
    For example, the opportunity for one side to send troops anywhere and quickly - and the absence of such an opportunity for the other side.


    Still, this transfer would have a strategic goal!

    If the author had carefully studied the landing operations of the Americans in the Pacific theater, he would have seen that since 1944, the Americans stopped storming every seedy island and switched to the tactics of capturing only strategically important islands suitable as a large lagoon for fleet parking, as a strategically important airfield as an air base for raids on neighboring islands with Japanese garrisons.

    The usual strategy - one island was captured with an air base in the region, the rest of the islands were damaged by runways and the air group was destroyed. Periodically, artillery attacks from ships or aircraft were repeated.

    The Japanese garrisons blocked on the islands had no choice but to starve, engage in fishing and powerlessly look at American ships calmly passing in the distance ...

    The main conclusion from the war in Oceania - it makes no sense to storm every Japanese island by storm - it is enough to block them and they turn into a ready-made prisoner of war camp, without supplies, without the ability to do anything or influence the war - useless troops on a strategically useless island.

    It would be necessary for the author to study collections of thematic translations
    e.g. Morison Samuel Eliot
    American Navy in World War II

    At least micronesia and the main desert operations in the Pacific: the Gilbert Islands, the Marshal Islands and new Guinea, Guadalcanal (where they learned from their own mistakes), Saipan, Okinawa, etc. - after there is no acute desire to occupy the islands with flying boats :)))