Military Review

Newcomer caliber 9 mm. "Alien" and a number of revolutionary solutions in the gun

88
In the spring of 2019, the company from the Czech Republic “Laugo Arms” announced the release of a new model 9-mm pistol, which received the unusual name “Alien” (“Alien”). The gun chambered for 9x19 mm is distinguished by a number of revolutionary solutions aimed at improving the accuracy of shooting. The first mentions of the pistol and detailed materials about the new product appeared in the press back in 2018 year. It should be noted that the Czech company “Laugo Arms” is not a newcomer to the market for the development of small weapons. Previously, company representatives had a hand in creating the 9-mm submachine gun “Scorpion EVO 3”, the rights to manufacture of which were transferred to CZ (Česká Zbrojovka).




The main feature of the Czech gun is the unusually low placement of the barrel for such weapons, the barrel is not located in the casing but in the frame of the gun. This feature is explained by the fact that the autoloading pistol was originally designed as a weapon for the most accurate shooting, even at the highest rate. The unusually low and rigidly fixed barrel significantly reduces the throwing of the weapon after the shot. For this reason, the gun will be appreciated by all people who are fond of sport shooting.

The official presentation of the new Czech gunsmiths was held on 8 in March 2019 of the year as part of the international exhibition IWA 2019, which is traditionally held in Germany in the ancient city of Nuremberg. Initially, the gun was released in a very small batch consisting of just 500 copies, which received serial numbers from 001 / 500 to 500 / 500. Exclusivity, limited party and rich equipment predetermined the very high cost of a Laugo Arms Alien pistol, which is approximately 5 thousand dollars. In addition to the pistol itself, the scope of supply includes a bag and a holster, three magazines, a collimator sight, an aluminum mouth of the magazine receiver and two shutter-covers. One shutter-casing is designed for installation with mechanical sights, the second - use with a collimator sight.



Laugo Arms Company History


The full name of the company of the manufacturer of an alien pistol is Laugo Arms Czechoslovakia. The mention of the name of a non-existent country should not embarrass anyone, it is a conscious choice of the company's founders and a reference to stories her appearance. The designer of the new 9-mm self-loading Alien pistol was Jan Lucansky. Representatives of the arms market, he is known primarily as a man who created a good 9-mm submachine gun CZ Scorpion EVO 3. Work on the submachine gun Jan with his colleague began 15 years ago in Slovakia in the city of Trencin (for a long time the city had a different name - Laugaritsio), but the project was already completed in the Czech Republic, where the large weapon company CZ acquired all rights to the new submachine gun and brought it to the stage of mass production.

In 2013, Jan Lučanski left Česká Zbrojovka, leaving for “free swimming”. In its current form, a new arms company, known as Laugo Arms Czechoslovakia, was formed only in 2017 year, Prague became its place of deployment. The company itself is positioning itself as a manufacturer of premium firearms. In 2018, the company presented to the arms market its new project of a self-loading pistol for ultra-accurate shooting called Alien, which officially debuted at international exhibitions in the spring of 2019. It may be noted that the “Czechoslovak” name of the new weapons company reflects the cooperation of the two countries, which until January 1 1993 were a single state, and may also carry nostalgia notes that also attract potential buyers.



Features of the gun Laugo Arms Alien


The main feature and feature of the Laugo Arms Alien pistol, which distinguishes it from the rest of the 9-mm self-loading pistols on the world market, is the sports format of the Czech model. The manufacturer claims "the lowest fit of the barrel axis" and is not cunning in this definition. The barrel of a pistol with a total length of 124 mm is fixed in a frame and is only 1,7 mm above the grip of an ordinary shooter, almost at the level of a bent index finger. Such a solution, which was implemented by the creators of the pistol, reduces the angle of tossing a weapon when firing. Thanks to this shooter, it is easier and more convenient to make new shots without spending a lot of time on it. According to experts and representatives of the specialized weapon-based media, who managed to test the model back in the 2018 year, the gun is indeed significantly less “goat” in comparison with similar models in the same caliber. You can notice this not only by feelings, but also visually on videos.

The barrel of a new Czech self-loading pistol is distinguished by the lowest position among all classmates, practically being a continuation of the hand arrow. In the basic version, the mass of a gun without a magazine and cartridges is 1009 grams, the mass of weapons with an empty magazine increases to 1120 grams. In this case, the gun is relatively compact. The total length of the model does not exceed 210 mm, height - 148 mm, width - 29 mm. The trigger force on the Laugo Arms Alien pistol can be adjusted from 1 to 2,5 kg.



The developers themselves do not suffer from special modesty, therefore positioning their “newcomer” as a “semi-automatic revolutionary pistol, possessing a number of patented unique technical solutions”. For example, in the design of the model does not apply the outdated locking system or an ordinary trigger mechanism. The pistol is distinguished by the modular design, which allowed gunsmiths to divide the classical frame of the frame from the handle into two separate elements: the outer body module for the barrel and the handle with a trigger guard.

The manufacturer of the automatic operation system of the Alien pistol is declared as “gas-piston with a delayed semi-free gate”. At the same time, a small diameter vent hole - 1,6 mm - is located just 5 mm from the chamber. The retarder piston and the return mechanism stem are a single U-shaped assembly (the gas piston is on the right, the return piston is on the left), which is located above the barrel of the gun.



In the standard version, the pistol is equipped with mechanical sights, which consist of an adjustable rear sight and a fixed front sight, which received a red fiber optic indicator, which makes it possible to aim better with a lack of lighting. In this case, if necessary, the set of sighting equipment can be easily changed, mounting plates are optionally located on the top cover, which allow to install collimator or even optical sights. Also on the central frame of the barrel there is a Picatinny-type mounting plate integrated into the design of the pistol, which can be used to install a tactical body kit: a laser aiming device, a flashlight, or other devices that facilitate the life of the shooter.

An important feature of the model is that the sights are completely isolated from the shutter and remain motionless relative to the pistol frame at the time of the shot. Replacing the standard mechanical sight with a collimator is made by replacing the bar on which the trigger and sear are mounted.



Tactical and technical characteristics of the gun Laugo Arms Alien:
Caliber - 9 mm.
The cartridge - 9x19 mm.
The length is 210 mm.
Height - 148 mm.
The width is 29 mm.
Barrel length - 124 mm.
Mass - 1009 g (without magazine and cartridges).
Magazine capacity - 17 cartridges (standard).
Author:
Photos used:
laugoarms.com
88 comments
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 24 June 2019 05: 36
    +8
    So here! It seems that nothing can be invented new in the design of the gun, and yet, what an interesting design. Rarely used scheme of automation, and yes even a radical reduction of the trunk line ...
    Can such schemes be considered for a combat pistol? Time will tell!
    1. John22
      John22 24 June 2019 16: 32
      +1
      Low Browning barrel in his first gun did.
      1. jojick
        jojick 27 June 2019 10: 30
        0
        Ri-va-lu-tion. Behind the wandering mechanism of automation - about the same as any modern revolver against the backdrop of 100+ year old grandfather Webbley-Fosberry negative
    2. Eule
      Eule Yesterday, 19: 40
      0
      The idea itself is great!
      Unfortunately, the author did not notice another truly revolutionary solution in the design - a short bolt comb.
      Let me explain - in all pistols, the bolt comb, which with its front angle pushes the cartridge when chambering, and which then "rides" along the upper cartridge forward, is strictly parallel to the axis of the barrel, and is longer than the cartridge so as not to catch on the rim when moving back.
      There is also a part of the shutter behind the chamber, short. Therefore, when moving back, he pushes all the cartridges down with a bevel, slightly extinguishing the recoil. This allows you to lower the barrel below the jumper between the thumb and forefinger, and bring it closer to the axis of the wrist joint.
      The disadvantages of the gun are:
      Changing the trigger and whisper when changing the type of sight, which can change the trigger pull.
      Extreme sensitivity to the quality of gunpowder, it cannot be loaded with any kind of "pornoul".
      I suppose it’s difficult to supply cartridges with strangely shaped and expansive bullets, but the pistol is positioned as a sports gun, and its price is not to carry with you into the trenches.
      A very high price, which will determine its low popularity in sports.
      But in general - since the shortened bolt works, we are waiting for other pistols with a similar scheme.
      PS - it's a pity that my health does not leave me a chance to live until the opening of borders, move to a good climate and do something similar, but with an eye on service.
  2. Uncle Sasha_027
    Uncle Sasha_027 24 June 2019 06: 19
    -15
    Super design! Non-moving barrel and sight, well, they finally gave birth! Another toss compensator and remove all irregularities from the body. Shame on our designers! Cheap, trying to copy from the West "freaks". We have been doing a low position for a long time (GSh-18), but the weight of the GSh is 600 grams, the designers never fired such a thing from a pistol, it's a problem to keep such a weight when firing a regular cartridge! And to shoot with one hand is generally something -))
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 24 June 2019 08: 43
        -1
        So therefore the "shame"!
        Why such a lightweight GSH !?
        And in general, these Russians are doing everything badly. "Why no hat ..."
    2. Alex_T
      Alex_T 24 June 2019 09: 19
      +7
      GSH-18 was created for the army, when you need to constantly carry a pistol on yourself (light weight) and very, very rarely shoot (not so convenient, but powerful). And the "elite", sports, collectible models are created for convenient and comfortable shooting (more weight, recoil less "dries" the hand), but wearing is supposed to be only in the shooting range.
    3. Locksmith
      Locksmith 24 June 2019 10: 43
      +3
      Quote: Uncle Sasha_027
      such a weight to hold when firing a normal patron problem! And one hand to shoot it is generally something -))

      As I understand from the "writers", the GSH-18 has a very pleasant recoil, in comparison with the Viking, it does not twist the hand with the recoil with a weak grip. And the funny thing is much more "intact" than the same Viking. Go (those) to the shooting range, shoot, and then write your (memoirs) posts. request
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 56
        +2
        Light gun must be held very tightly in your hand. Be it even GSH-18, though Glock 17.

        On the 17 Glock, there is a big difference in the shooter's feelings - whether they are sporting ammunition, charged with a minimum power factor or combat NATO 9mm or Russian 7НХNUMX.

        With live ammunition there is no comfort in shooting.
    4. Simargl
      Simargl 24 June 2019 12: 29
      +8
      Quote: Uncle Sasha_027
      By super design!
      Construction - show off. When firing powerful cartridges with relatively slow gunpowder, cartridges will blow. Not just abandoned earrings in favor of a cop groove in the locking scheme Browning, for example.

      Quote: Uncle Sasha_027
      Not moving the barrel and sight, well, finally gave birth!
      The PM has a non-moving barrel. You can stick the frame under the "beard" and set a fixed sight. Margolin has it all.

      Quote: Uncle Sasha_027
      Shame on our designers! Cheap, trying to copy from the West "freaks".
      Who copied and how? There are not so many locking schemes, almost all were invented by 100 ++ years ago.
      1. Dmitry 80
        Dmitry 80 25 June 2019 01: 49
        0
        Now the winner is the one who successfully combined the systems of descent, locking and layout invented a long time ago. It is more convenient to clean the fixed barrel together with the frame :) And in case of a rupture of the barrel on this device, the index finger will be clearly amputated.
        PM after Margolin is like a pelvis after BMW, actions are the same for management, and the results are different. Norm fulfilled, but the feeling that the PM - a weapon to shoot.
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 25 June 2019 07: 21
          0
          Quote: Dmitry 80
          but the feeling that the PM is a weapon to shoot.
          Tymchuk cast?
          1. Dmitry 80
            Dmitry 80 25 June 2019 09: 25
            0
            Pure tactile sensations. Like a hammer. I would prefer something bigger and better, so that the result of firing from one hand and the two-handed grip would not differ (in PM from one hand it turns out more accurately, at odds with common sense).
    5. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 50
      0
      Glock too 600 with a few grams empty. No complaints.

      Complaints with the GSH-18 is when shooting 7H31, which feels like the shooter is not at all the same in comparison with the usual 9x19.
    6. Crimea26
      Crimea26 24 June 2019 18: 24
      0
      Wow! "fixed sight"! Is it okay that every shot still "moves" this sight?
      1. Tarikxnumx
        Tarikxnumx 2 July 2019 16: 10
        -1
        moves, yes. Only from the time of return to the aiming line was the shutter release time taken to the barrel. Yes, tenths of a second, but with high-speed shooting it is essential.
      2. Eule
        Eule Yesterday, 19: 45
        0
        The question is that for collimators, flying with a shutter forward and backward is not useful, and "bridges" are prohibited in a number of competition disciplines, and make it extremely difficult to carry in a holster.
    7. Eule
      Eule 13 January 2022 18: 17
      0
      This is a set-up series that is overpriced for top-notch shooters and wealthy enthusiast collectors. In any case, in 30 years, a pistol from the first batch on the collector's market will cost seriously more. Especially with provenance about winning national or world championships.
      As this batch sells out, there will be a slightly improved series, taking into account the wishes ... there are no forum commentators, but world champions. And there the price will drop a little, it is clear that it will not fall to 650 Glock dollars, but it will be at the level of Wilson or STI, which also does not cost 500.
      This is World Cup-level sports equipment, and it cannot be cheap. If you want cheap sports equipment, take up beach volleyball or swimming.
  3. Klingon
    Klingon 24 June 2019 09: 44
    -2
    Jan Luchansky? Maybe he is a distant relative of Yang LuChan, the creator of Yang style in Tai Chi? laughing
  4. brom
    brom 24 June 2019 10: 03
    +2
    Lebedev's gun to the Czechs does not give rest.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 24 June 2019 12: 31
      +3
      We don’t put a collimator on Lebedev, but in general there is nothing in common between them. And this is another question, who does not give anyone peace. The Czechs have tremendous experience in designing and manufacturing weapons. Even before WWI, half of Europe was armed with their pistols, while in Russia they used the Belgian Nagan. Tradition, practice and professionalism. You would not disgrace with such statements.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 47
        +1
        Well, if you modify the shutter so that the rear sight is placed in the cut of the "dovetail", then you can put Western light collimators of the Dochter type. Or if we accept the MOS standard, then generally any MOS compatible sights.

        https://eu.glock.com/en/technology/mos-configuration
        1. tarakan
          tarakan 24 June 2019 18: 31
          +1
          Hello "horse ...." the question of "civil"
          Why on a pistol, a revolier to put a calligator? As I understand the gun there is a gap between the re-charge of the main weapon, quickly snatched, worked, moved, reloaded.
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 19: 05
            +9
            The collimator is faster than the mechanical sight for a simple reason. The red point of the collimator is in the plane of the target and the eye does not need to rebuild. The red dot and target are equally clear. Another thing is an open mechanical sight. There is clearly visible either a fly or a goal. The eye needs to work here and there many times with a pupil-lens, which is much slower. Whoever quickly aimed precisely, he is alive.

            A pistol for self-defense (including the military’s spare weapons) is usually not equipped with a collimator, since it is difficult to hide civilians in this form, and it is necessary to shoot only five meters away. And here, the athletes use, for example in the division IPSC Production-Optics. Unmodified pistol in factory configuration with collimator sight.

            I did not see the police collimators. Another thing - from spetsury. They have a PP with collimators and automatic / assault rifles, and not with cheap LED, but quite a dear holographic, 600-800 price dollars.

            That is, with the special forces specializing in cleaning up objects, where "on the other side" there is a mixture of "bad guys" and outsiders. Surgical precision is needed there, and there a pistol can be the main weapon.

            Civilian self-defenders do not need a laser or a collimator for a pistol. At a distance of up to 5 meters, the "point your finger" method works great. Only instead of a finger - a pistol. At such a distance, no one uses the sight. Directed - you shoot. Time is the most precious thing.
            1. tarakan
              tarakan 24 June 2019 20: 14
              +1
              Thank you "horse" for the detailed answer "litter for + - I made a mistake, I write from the phone and I have lost the habit of using the Cyrillic alphabet
              Another question, extra details when removing do not interfere? Iravka with a calligator does not complicate the search for targets?
              1. Horse, people and soul
                Horse, people and soul 25 June 2019 15: 35
                0
                There are two options here:

                1) collimator is placed on the bracket on the frame of the gun
                2) collimator is placed on the casing of the shutter (MOS system)

                In the first case, for me personally, it's better, albeit cumbersome. This is the usual configuration for an open-top top gun. The sight does not move with the shutter, the eye is easier from this. This pistol usually has an additional handle at the gate under 90 degrees for ease of cocking.

                With the second option, the sight moves with the slide and I personally don’t like it. This is an option for spetsury - they have seen such. And for athletes Production Optiks.

                The frame does not make it difficult to find the target, since the shooter looks at the target with both eyes and the red dot lies in the plane of the target, and the frame is blurred. The manufacturer also determines how large the glass is in the sight and how thick the frame is.

                There are a huge variety of sports and military holsters where nothing prevents the pistol from being removed.
                These are, in general, open holsters.
            2. Locksmith
              Locksmith 26 June 2019 11: 05
              0
              Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
              Civilian self-defenders do not need a laser or a collimator for a pistol. At a distance of up to 5 meters, the "point your finger" method works great. Only instead of a finger - a pistol. At such a distance, no one uses the sight.

              If you shoot like that with WASP, you will get into a turnip, even if you aim at the chest. And with a great laser !! laughing
              1. Horse, people and soul
                Horse, people and soul 26 June 2019 12: 02
                +1
                Regarding your Wasp, there is one very important nuance.

                For example, according to the laws of Estonia, weapons can be used only at the moment of immediate danger to life. But only at this moment or at the moment immediately forthcoming. It is impossible to get, show weapons, scare with a laser (lasers are not allowed to self-defenders). But if the shot is legal, it makes no difference that there will be a chest or a turnip. The main thing it is desirable to immediately stop the illegal actions of PP (bad guy).

                This is in Russia for 20-30 years with rezinoplyuyami completely corrupted the people. For good to collect rezinoplyui and destroy. To pause and restart from scratch with a normal shortbore, but under very tight control.

                But this is a completely different topic for discussion.
                1. Locksmith
                  Locksmith 17 September 2019 21: 51
                  +1
                  I completely agree with you, I have had an LLC for 15 years, and my total experience is 20 years, and there is no progress towards the legalization of the Constitutional Court. repeat
                2. Eule
                  Eule Yesterday, 19: 51
                  0
                  I also note that in the United States there is no term "collateral damage" and "emergency", so if a policeman shoots someone's car in the process of shooting a black man, then he pays for repairs. And for shooting a passerby, they can be imprisoned.
                  Warning shot is prohibited. Since if there was a threat to life, it was necessary to shoot at the center of the enemy's silhouette. And if there was no threat to life, you can’t shoot. Yes, there may be a balcony above your head, and not an outsider, as was the case in St. Petersburg, the lover of smoking on the balcony survived.
  5. Operator
    Operator 24 June 2019 10: 04
    -2
    It does not take off - the gas outlet and the gun are incompatible (the combination is not childishly heated).

    The Czechs, after they became 1939 under the Germans, were only able to develop quacking.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 24 June 2019 11: 46
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      gas outlet and gun are not compatible

      "Desert Eagle" (Desert Eagle) - also with a gas outlet, but for those cartridges, that he applies this, probably, the best version of automation. But under the ordinary pistol cartridge to make the gas outlet -, in my opinion, complication. For a sports pistol is not critical, for the army - to anything.
      I think so.

      1. Simargl
        Simargl 24 June 2019 12: 34
        +1
        Quote: Bad_gr
        “Desert Eagle” (Desert Eagle) - also with a gas outlet
        In Digla locking scheme - like a machine, and then just slow the shutter. Better than notches in the chamber, but in principle - also trash.
      2. Wildcat
        Wildcat 24 June 2019 12: 39
        +2
        At Desert, when firing, however, the casing with the sights is moved, while for Alien it is not. For sports it is very good, gravity is also good, and the complexity of the design is not very important with reasonable reliability. For other users, the advantages are not obvious and the price is probably biting.
      3. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 40
        +2
        From the desert Eagle is difficult to force myself to shoot more than one store.

        Another thing is a sports gun for IPSC, which usually shoots 50 cartridges per minute of exercise ...
        1. Eule
          Eule Yesterday, 19: 55
          0
          "Eagle" is designed for the American fun of knocking down cast-iron skittles with bullets from 25m. And there is a test for the time of the fall of the last one, this is a spectacular version of the MP-8 exercise.
          The second version of its origin is Sakharov's report on "the possibility of opening 'portals' between planets of the same mass under certain conditions." In general, they were preparing a cannon for a dinosaur. But portals have not yet been made, so there is no new planet to explore yet.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 24 June 2019 12: 31
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      It does not take off - the gas outlet and the gun are incompatible (the combination is not childishly heated).
      As I understand it, there is not just a gas outlet, but a gas retarder, i.e. gases squeeze the bolt forward (retard), which can give frequent pouting and rupture of the liner in certain conditions.
      1. Operator
        Operator 24 June 2019 14: 08
        -3
        In any case, it is necessary to shoot in asbestos gloves laughing
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 24 June 2019 14: 22
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          In any case, it is necessary to shoot in asbestos gloves
          Yes, no, it's not the last century.
          Ceramic inserts (we can assume), gas discharge forward (two tubes under the barrel) - everything is thought out: it’s also sporty.
    3. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 43
      +1
      Heckler Koch P7 is warming up, yes. And it gets dirty. It was made for the police. A few shots and that's it. One of us in the club tried "Production" to shoot with P7-13. Spat and sold.
    4. John22
      John22 24 June 2019 16: 47
      0
      Back in 1976, the company Heckler Koch created the Р7 pistol With a semi-free bolt chambered for 9х19 mm. The braking of the bolt was a piston in which gases were discharged near the chamber.
  6. Alex_S
    Alex_S 24 June 2019 10: 18
    +1
    The principle of the system resembles IL-34 / 35, with changes for a more powerful cartridge.
  7. san4es
    san4es 24 June 2019 11: 28
    +7
    The main feature and feature of the Laugo Arms Alien .... pistol is the sports format of the Czech model ..
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 24 June 2019 12: 36
      +3
      Good day, my friend Sanchez! hi

      No, the author just owes you at least half a liter! Not a fig really could understand by design, until I watched the video. Spasibo AGRICIOUS! drinks
      1. san4es
        san4es 24 June 2019 12: 54
        +3
        Hello Cat hi ... 0,5 is not needed, I drank my tank smile
        The original constructive image of the Laugo Arms Alien pistol is formed by three technical solutions: a gas brake, an upper trigger and an aiming fixture fixed to the shutter.
        In retrospect, in the very first approximation, we can find similar features in the German 9-mm pistol Heckler & Koch P7 and the Soviet small-bore sports pistols MTs-3 "Record" by Pyotr Sheptarsky and MTs-1 / MTsM Mikhail Margolin.

        https://www.kalashnikov.ru/prishelets-pistolet-laugo-arms-alien/
  8. Lad
    Lad 24 June 2019 11: 30
    -6
    Read kamenty and fully agree with everyone. Of course, the Czechs are haunted by the glorious Russian weapons, and so they copy it as they can. Although they can be very bad. They themselves have never done anything new at all. This pistol has a fixed barrel licked from the best in the world of sports (after all, sports) Makarov pistol. Gas outlet of the best in the world sports machine Kalashnikov. Oh yeah, the lower location of the trunk was obviously stolen from Sheptarsky, although they could not steal it to the end. Sucks, in short. All the same, at international competitions, everyone will play with Russian sports pistols and will perform. Just cut the dough, as always in the west. Bohemia is already west?
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 24 June 2019 12: 41
      +4
      Quote: Lad
      This pistol has a fixed barrel licked from the best in the world of sports (after all, sports) Makarov pistol.
      Then Makarov is exactly with Walter. tongue

      Quote: Lad
      Gas outlet of the best in the world sports machine Kalashnikov
      And Kalashnikov - at Mondragona and the gas outlet, and the butterfly valve. The gas outlet is in this gun is, but the rotary shutter - no lol .

      Quote: Lad
      Oh yeah, the lower location of the trunk was obviously stolen from Sheptarsky, although they could not steal it to the end.
      MC-3 "Record" is an inverted "Margolin" under .22 Short laughing . The record was banned at the competition the next day almost.

      And where is that copied?
      1. Eule
        Eule Yesterday, 19: 59
        0
        I read in some women's magazine, which my wife bought, that Colonel Mondragon is still formally wanted in France, although he has already died of old age. His daughter "inspired" several artists, including Picasso, and when rumors reached dad, he arrived, caught Picasso at the exit from the studio, took off his belt and spanked his daughter right on the bench on the street, after which he simply dragged him to the airport. Along the way, stuffing someone's face.
        Hot Mexican dad.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 24 June 2019 12: 56
      +4
      Where did you write off this nonsense, or is it a product of your own "reflections" laughing

      This pistol has a fixed barrel licked from the best in the world of sports (after all, sports) Makarov pistol.



      In nature, there was never a Makarov SPORTS pistol, and a fixed barrel a quarter of a century before Makar was patented on the Walter PP model.

      The gas engine, as in the "best in the world SPORTS (I trudge) Kalashnikov assault rifle," back in 1908 stood on the French Hotchkiss.

      Explain, please, regarding the lower location of the trunk, what did they not manage to steal from Sheptarsky until the end?

      And yes, who and at what competitions with what Russian pistols stands, please enlighten.

      In general, they were pleased, he laughed heartily. And I am not writing for you, but for those who may not be interested in the topic.

      PS By the way, your underground nickname in the past was not "Carbine"? laughing
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 15: 54
        +2
        In the 90s, the Estonian customs confiscated a large cargo of IZH-71 sport pistols sent by Izhmash to (Northern) Ireland, which the Estonian "experts" considered to be PM combat pistols.

        The story is dark with a host in (Northern) Ireland and in general. Izhmash tried to sue, but the matter did not end with anything. Izhmash did not return the money. Pistols remained in Estonia.

        hi
        1. frog
          frog 4 July 2019 12: 07
          0
          Mill sorry, but the 71 is kind of a service weapon? There are sports facilities based on PMA, but, IMHO, these are the 70s or "Baikals" .....
      2. Lad
        Lad 24 June 2019 23: 04
        +4
        No, such a nickname never had. And yes, these are all my inventions. ))) And I agree, Makarov and Kalashnikov are not athletic.)) Sorry for the post, it was sarcasm - a reaction to some other posts that are repeated from topic to topic. Some talk reminds of an old humorous story about how a student learned only one flea ticket. And then that would not always pull out all reduced to a flea. Here and on this site some constantly reduce everything to Makarov-Kalash-tt-Stechkin. If humor failed then sorry. )))
        1. Lad
          Lad 24 June 2019 23: 07
          0
          And thanks for responding. And I thought everyone would take it at face value. )) Probably need to tie with a blunt army humor. (((
          1. Vasily
            Vasily 25 June 2019 07: 30
            -2
            Lad, you are more careful here with humor. Mostly gathered here are tough men, experts. They do not understand humor or sarcasm. At first I thought the people were pretending, but no, it turned out that there is such a cluster of unsmiling in one place. I am fined probably for flooding.
  9. Gray brother
    Gray brother 24 June 2019 12: 23
    +1
    It weighs like "Stechkin" - ahrenet. How did they achieve this?
    1. Old Skeptic
      Old Skeptic 24 June 2019 13: 05
      +1
      Lead hung. lol
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother 24 June 2019 13: 17
        +1
        Quote: Old Skeptic
        Lead hung.

        The main thing is not depleted uranium)))
        1. Old Skeptic
          Old Skeptic 3 July 2019 16: 34
          0
          Chekhov is not sorry.
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 32
      +3
      And the Sig P226, which is completely stainless, weighs 1200 grams empty, which is very good. The return from it is two times less than from the Glock 17. Carry - not everyone likes.

      Here, nuruka na, Stechkin such weight with half the weak cartridge? A burst-firing Glock 18 weighs about as much as a regular 17 Glock - about 960 grams charged.
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother 24 June 2019 20: 15
        0
        Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
        Here, nuruka na, Stechkin such weight with half the weak cartridge?

        To queue in the direction of the target, and not anywhere.
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 20: 20
          +2
          So no queues but it turns out that way and that way will be missed.

          And with the butt the weight of the gun is not critical.
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 24 June 2019 20: 29
            0
            Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
            So without a butt it and so and so will be by the purpose.

            On fifty dollars and shoot. Need to be able to.
            1. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 20: 42
              +2
              Queues something?

              laughing

              With hands?

              laughing laughing

              On 50 meters?

              laughing laughing laughing
              1. Gray brother
                Gray brother 24 June 2019 20: 43
                0
                Quote: Horse, people and soul
                Queues something?

                laughing

                With hands?

                Yes.
                1. Horse, people and soul
                  Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 23: 25
                  +2
                  If we are talking about shooters armed with the Stechkins, then, in your opinion, can everyone be shot like this?

                  I'm just wondering - do you make the difference between almost trick shooting from your hand (no stock!) Auto-fire (!) On 50 (!) Meters and the real capabilities of the average fighter.

                  hi

                  I suppose that shooting with a butt on 25 meters with auto-fire during training can be taught to put in addition to the first bullet and some more to the target. But with auto-ignition and on 50 meters it is a trick for units to find more than one bullet in the target.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 25 June 2019 00: 49
                    +2
                    Hello my friend! hi And I like APS, my wife liked it too. I remember how she crossed out one line diagonally a portrait of one of our statesman of the times of "stagnation". True, from ten meters and the first shot, I advised her to aim at the joint of the bullet catcher with the floor. There was a queue on the floor of the store, and five bullets hit the target in perfect stitching. The men applauded, then presented her with this target, sealed the "achievement" with their signatures. smile
                    1. Horse, people and soul
                      Horse, people and soul 25 June 2019 11: 21
                      +1
                      Oh, and I like it, regarding the PM. Collided with a cropped version without auto-fire.

                      For 10 euro, the simple Glock turns into a burster ...

                      Full auto switch for Glock
                    2. Eule
                      Eule Yesterday, 20: 01
                      -1
                      Did he have a leg from a squeaking machine on the magazine's latch? Common revision.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish Yesterday, 20: 23
                        0
                        Did he have a leg from a squeaking machine on the magazine's latch?


                        Very clever, keep writing. laughing
  10. Old Skeptic
    Old Skeptic 24 June 2019 13: 04
    0
    This is a sports pistol. No need to compare them with army models. There are completely different operational requirements.
    On the basis of technical characteristics and design, and as a serial military model, the PL looks quite decent.
    GSh-18 is also an interesting specimen, but the specialists do not seem to like it, because of the "cracks" around the barrel (although the designers claim that it grows on dirt in this place).
    Who knows. It's one thing shooting, another thing a field.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 26
      +3
      GSH-18 is a lightweight pistol and you can shoot 7H31 with a strong one, not particularly high. Because the specialists who have it, and do not like. The usual 9x19 - no problem should be.

      The gap and Glock there. What goes in through the gaps is blown back. Worse, if the pistol has small tolerances and fine quartz sand gets there, for example. Or Nagar-coke from the powder is formed on such a gun.
  11. senima56
    senima56 24 June 2019 13: 16
    +1
    You guys will not get away: either "too heavy", then "too light", then "too big", and then "too small"! ... Well, wait, here comes the PL-15 (PL-15K), he already will please the majority!
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 19
      +3
      There the external fuse is too flat and small detail. Either it is not needed at all, or it must be of such size and shape in order to work in gloves.
  12. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 14: 15
    +3
    And I liked the low barrel and didn't like the gas piston system at all. On the one hand, the gas piston system gives some "softness" in the work, as in the XK P7, but the pistol heats up more and gets dirty.

    It is quite difficult to find cartridges with the characteristics that the shooter needs, so that they are clean at the same time. Frelodyrs usually advocate the price and thermal stability of the powder, since for a "normal" pistol, powder dirt is not so important. But then ... the pistol will get dirty.

    If there is an ultrasonic bath, then, of course, it is simpler - to disassemble, dump the parts there and leave for half an hour or an hour. What athletes acceptable. All other categories of shooters - this is not always acceptable.

    Although ... the gun is positioned as a sport. And, moreover, because of the price in 5000 dollars - for top shooters.

    And most shooters will survive with Chezoids, Sigami, 1911 and Glokami. Well, Grand Power Slovak there to heap. Also a good and cheap gun.
  13. beeper
    beeper 24 June 2019 15: 52
    +5
    In any case, it is important to prioritize the right way and in the development of weapon models!
    I can’t resist and give for comrades the "dazibao" from my favorite (two-, three-, and, in a new edition, again two-) volumes of P.I. Orlova "Basics of Design":
    "Wenig erfingen, mehr konstruiert" - "Invent less, design more"! wink
    In this case, there is a purely commercial project, the purpose of which is to "sell" to ignorant consumers an expensive super-duper "wunderwaffe" a hole-two shots (I specifically looked through it several times until I saw the edge of the first hole twitching, at 11 o'clock, from the second bullet, otherwise anything can happen in advertising smile ) point-blank "cardboard target! yes ).
    "Czechoslovakia" - I understood that in this case, the nostalgia of some residents for the former common country was "exploited" - this is, like ours, write in the name of the company "USSR" and after all, not only I will be "hooked" with such "marketing move "?! wink
    The Barnitske principle is by no means "unique", but has been known since 1945, or even earlier ?! He, in my opinion, has more disadvantages than advantages!
    The German Heckler-Koch P7 pistol, although it was advertised "lit up" in the hands of the main villain in the very first and triumphant "Die Hard", did not gain such commercial success as its "peer" Glock-17, and there was a lot of the reasons - "slowing down the shutter recoil by the removal of powder gases" (as well as the inevitable "coking" in time of such weapons not cleaned!) was one of the main!
    In the German Р7, the gas chamber was located below and even with a fraction of the discharged powder gases, heated up the trigger guard area, threatening with a burn during prolonged firing, the specially installed plastic protection did not help either!
    In the Czech Alien, it seems, this drawback was taken into account - the gas chamber was moved up, but only formally, since now the area of ​​the trigger guard will "warm", even more intensely, the most heating part of the pistol barrel, with all its powder gases (minus only, set aside for deceleration, "a fraction")! But, apart from weakly expressed, most likely decorative, "cooling ribs-grooves", I do not observe any protection against burns of the "trigger finger" of the shooter in the design of this pistol ?!
    It is not for nothing that there are ALREADY TWO BUTTONS "included" to the pistol! Since such it is, "split on the right", "open" in the most loaded and critical place, the design, with a total thickness of the shutter of only 29 mm, suggests the imminent appearance of fractured signs of "metal fatigue" on the left "cheek", in the area of ​​the "mirror shutter ", and if it is not replaced in time with a spare one, the rear part of the shutter may break with sad consequences ?!
    "Fixed aiming bar" is just a SEE, suggested by the developers and implementers of this rather expensive "product"!
    It is enough (rejecting what is suggested by the advertising brochure) just to look at the configuration of this, U-shaped in section, stamped (welded?) - riveted part to see the obviously cantilever, relative to the rear fastening of the aiming bar, the location of the rear sight (or, much more massive and high collimator device!). But this flimsy console is also influenced by workers, mainly vertical, loads (and, accordingly, one-time-at the time of the shot, rollback and rollback of the shutter, and fatigue, as a result, residual deformations!) Of the "upper trigger" built into it! and its "drives" ??! winked So, the advertised "immobility of the aiming bar" DURING THE SHOT IS EXTREMELY AND EXTREMELY RELATIVE !!!
    In the domestic PSS pistol, the immobility of the aiming bar is provided much more technically and better, and in primitive pocket pistols of the beginning of the last century this issue was more "worked out" than in the "high-tech" Czech Alien.
    There is no full-fledged fuse, I see, there is no stop on the trigger that can be removed when pressed ?! Well, yes, this is a "sports pistol" and only trained shooters who are "not inclined to careless handling of weapons" will work with it ?! God grant that it be so!
    Now about the low-lying barrel - is it a virtue or a disadvantage with a powerful pistol cartridge ?! After all, the greater part of the recoil energy turns out to be directed "into the hand", and not "to rotation" - tossing the muzzle of the weapon, the more traumatic it is for the shooter's body ?! It is clear that for episodic "post-fire" this is not as critical as for constant exercises in shooting from a powerful pistol (I think that the famous Sheptarsky frame in narrow circles around arms, but with a powerful pistol cartridge, would give very ambiguous results in the midpoint of hits, even in the hands of the same shooter, depending on even insignificant changes in the "grip of the handle" (after loading and reloading the magazine) and the general physical condition of the body?! What is imperceptible with a weak small-caliber cartridge will immediately come out sideways with a powerful live cartridge! Not without reason, and the "benefits" of the so-called "linear recoil", when the butt is located on the "barrel line", are not so profitable, since they make such a weapon very sensitive (in terms of bullet exit angle) to the stop point at shoulder!
    And even more so, in a sports pistol, it was necessary to use not a "hard-recoil" gas outlet automation with a stationary barrel, but a "soft" scheme with a "short barrel stroke", in this case, longitudinal sliding, as in the well-known German Parabellum P08 and Walter P38 ...
    In principle, I again "racked up" with my comment, so I end on a positive wave, what did I like about this Czech pistol ?!
    Its small thickness — just 29 mm, the inclination of the handle and the widening of its mouth — for faster insertion of the magazine! good
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 19: 23
      +2
      I fired from the Italian Chappa Reno revolver, where the shot comes from the lower chamber with "heavy" .357 Magnum cartridges and "light" .38 Special. So, I don't want to dispute the rationality of the idea with a low barrel. I did not observe any negative aspects with physiology when recoiling directly into the hand. Subjectively, it was much easier to shoot than from the heavier Smith 686 and Ruger GP100. And it turned out to shoot faster.

      The thickness of the Alien 29 mm is just 1 mm thinner on the gate than the 9 mm Glock.

      Hecklera P7 was made for the police with the expectation that they would not need to shoot more than one or two stores. For this scheme is quite a. But shooting P7 50 and more ammo at a fast pace is doubly masochism. And overheating of the gun and coking - then clean a little pleasant.
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 19: 46
      +3
      the video for this advertising purpose is "sharpened" - what is the "unobtrusively" delayed frame of a perforated one in one hole or two shots (I looked it over several times until I saw the edge of the first hole twitching at 11 o'clock from the second bullet, and then anything happens in advertising at point-blank "cardboard target!


      In the video, dude-IPSCishnik shoots at targets as it is usually accepted in this discipline. At a distance from a crush to meters, 5-10 fires on splits when they point at a target once and hit the trigger twice. So save time. Usually, the middle arrows on the 10 meters make two separate aimed shots.

      The fact that the dude shot at a near target with a split is not unusual, as well as the fact that the target is near. As in life. You can open the door and the "bad guy" is aiming at you outside the door.

      So, when you split from Glock between the holes will be a few centimeters.

      What happened with Aliana is that the hole in the hole is a very good result, characterizing the gun itself - the gun quickly returns to the aiming line.
    3. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 19: 51
      +2
      Its small thickness — just 29 mm, the inclination of the handle and the widening of its mouth — for faster insertion of the magazine!


      If instead of 29 mm take 25 mm on the bolt, then the pistol you described with a tilt of the handle and a magvel for quick insertion of the store - 17 Glock 5 generation - for 600 euros against 5000 dollars for Alien.

      laughing

      Glock 17 Gene 5
  14. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 20: 05
    +2
    An important feature of the model is that the sights are completely isolated from the shutter and remain motionless relative to the pistol frame at the time of the shot.


    In such a design could be avoided and the departure of the bolt above the shooting hand.
    1. Corn
      Corn 25 June 2019 03: 15
      0
      In such a design could be avoided and the departure of the bolt above the shooting hand.
      can not. In fact, all the same traditional shutter-casing.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 25 June 2019 11: 27
        0
        Can.

        yes

        With a certain mutual configuration of the frame, shutter and fixed parts with sighting.
        1. Corn
          Corn 25 June 2019 12: 09
          0
          For the extraction of the liner and the filing of the cartridge, you still need the free running of the shutter. It can of course be hidden under the casing, as in the same lugger, but you yourself were glad for the huge knob behind the handle?
          Well, or a revolver, there is no such "problem" in principle.
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul 25 June 2019 15: 14
            0
            Exactly what to hide. And it doesn't have to be a "huge knob".

            hi
    2. Eule
      Eule 13 January 2022 18: 11
      0
      You can, but it will be a completely different gun. If I manage to learn the language, I will do it, in Ecuador or somewhere else. Khaidurov and Luger managed to remove the shutter overhang beyond the size of the pistol.
      The bridge - casing is also in IZH-XR30 and IZH-35, which, in fact, is also Khaidur's. But the author of the 35th tried to come up with novelty for the sake of novelty, in order to bypass Khaidurov. Yes, it turned out funny, with a falling trigger, but the disassembly button .... the new ones are tight, juniors break their nails. For those who have been used, there have already been cases of self-disassembly of a pistol at competitions.
  15. Operator
    Operator 24 June 2019 21: 02
    -1
    Quote: Simargl
    Ceramic inserts

    Ceramics have a different coefficient of thermal expansion than metal - the combined construction will fall to the Czech mother laughing
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 24 June 2019 23: 11
      +2
      And metal ceramics?
      1. Operator
        Operator 24 June 2019 23: 59
        0
        Metal-ceramic is also different from the metal in terms of the coefficient of thermal expansion.
  16. yehat
    yehat 16 July 2019 12: 31
    0
    Quote: Dmitry 80
    I would prefer something bigger and graspier so that the result of shooting with one hand and two-handed grip does not differ

    your throwing ax is everything.