When Russia will have a strong fleet

273
The entry into service of the next "Virginia" and "Arly Burke" is met by the statement that there is no need for Russia to compete with the number of ships with the originally naval powers.





Continental power fleet is not needed


A continental country does not need a fleet and many ships have no purpose. The thesis is good, correct, but initially contains an error. "Continental Power" unexpectedly for all has four fleets on all sides of the world!

And here the fun begins.

Well, not a number, so skill. If the fleet of our "partners" is regularly reinforced with 1 rank ships, it would be fair to see the construction of at least one destroyer for the Russian Navy every few years. How justified is this expectation? In my opinion, more than! Otherwise, when the 60: 0 is on the board, there can be no talk of any real rivalry.

Reports about increasing the presence of the Navy in the oceans sharply diverge from reality. The number of ships does not match the statements.

The fleet is primarily ships, not talk. Assess the extent of rearmament of other countries over the last 5 years. And this is not the most significant participants!

The Italian fleet was replenished with 5 frigates (6700 tons) with long-range air defense / missile defense systems. An important technical aspect that determines the complexity of structures and their significance. Having completed the FREMM plan, the Italians immediately laid the next generation of frigates (destroyers), such as PPA. With such a pace and following the schedules to the middle of 2020, the number of modern Italian ships of the 1 rank will safely cross the line into 15 units.

In the distant solar India for the period 2015-2019. 2 rocket destroyers "Type 15А" were put into operation and 4, larger and more advanced "Type 15B" "Visakapatnam" (8000 t), were laid. By now all of them have been launched.



Britain, long lost the ambitions of a great maritime power, in the period 2015-2019. commissioned the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier and a pair of high-speed Tide-type integrated supply ships (39 000 tons). The active construction of destroyers during this period was not conducted - at the turn of the 2010-s. "Royal Navy" has already received a six "Derring". The next generation of 1 rank warships should be City-type frigates (8000 tons), the head of which was laid in 2017.

Honorable 10-place?


The domestic fleet is located somewhere at the level of the fleets of regional powers and the compact European naval forces. All that we have over the past decade in the lists of new arrivals of 1 ships of rank (or ranked as such, for lack of others) is the 5 frigates of the Admiral Series.

The Navy steadfastly holds positions only at the expense of submarine forces, but it is too early to talk about any “restoration” and “growing Russian threat”. During the previous "five-year plan" not a single nuclear submarine entered into service.

The UK fleet for the same period was replenished with two nuclear submarines of the "Estyut" type.

The Indian Navy in 2016, with great difficulty, received "Arikhant", his first-born nuclear submarine shipbuilding. Along with the “Arikhant”, the Russian Navy operates the Russian multipurpose NERPA K-152 PLA, leased for 10 years. Consideration is being given to the financing of reconditioning with the subsequent transfer of the Indian submarine to the next submarine (probably K-322 Kashalot, which has been on the Amur GCC for many years, awaiting a decision on its fate). The backlog in technology is compensated by a keen desire to have a modern fleet. The Indians use every opportunity, and, we must pay tribute to them, they achieve the desired results.

Italy has never had ships with nuclear power plants. But she is the only one among the parties mentioned who possesses technologies for the construction of non-nuclear submarines with an air-independent engine. Modern Todaro-type naval submarines, built at the Finkantieri shipyard, are fairly advanced combat vehicles that are not inferior to nuclear-powered ships on the limited scale of the Mediterranean Sea.

About how many submarines managed to put into operation the leading maritime powers, in this context, it is not necessary to mention. In order to avoid getting under the article about "insulting feelings."

We had time for the deadline, but then we were late ...


There is a tendency in the world to reduce the time required for the construction of ships — ahead of schedule, which is facilitated by the growth of labor productivity, coupled with the desire of contractors to fulfill their obligations as soon as possible and to make a profit.

"Currently, the shipyard is building the UDC with some advance schedule and does not exclude the transfer of its Turkish Navy already in 2020 year instead of the planned 2021."

(News on the progress of construction of the universal landing craft L 400, Anadolu, Turkey.)

However, our USC has its own traditions, from which it is not going to recede anymore. Movement of any dates - just go!

When Russia will have a strong fleet

Poster of the start of 2019 of the year as a vivid example of news about fleet reinforcement


Legend of this stories that is. "Admiral Kasatonov" was laid in 2009, launched in 2014 and since then "strengthens" the naval composition of the Navy from year to year. It does not have time to date and moves to the right. The “Thunderer” corvette has been built from 2012 onwards. As if it is already time - seven years for a guard ship near zone. Another corvette, the “Mercury”, was laid on 2016, and it was clearly added to the list by mistake. His scheduled entry into service - 2021.

Multipurpose PLA 4 generation K-561 "Kazan", the second in the series after the head "Severodvinsk." Eight years from bookmark to launch (2017). Another three years for the completion and testing. Transfer to fleet transferred from 2019 to 2020.

Terms of construction are not just long. They are irrational. For such results, you can bring to justice the entire USC top management. And there will be real deadlines equal to the deadlines for which the ships were built.

Excuses are not accepted


I believe there will be those who say: the tests are important. It is impossible to transfer to the fleet unprepared and untested ships.

But, gentlemen ... there is such a thing. If we build ships and submarines for a dozen years, and then conduct tests for years, military equipment will inevitably become obsolete before being commissioned. It can be said with confidence that SUCH construction / completion / testing periods are a vicious practice and there is no positive meaning in it.



However, there are examples and more abruptly. IRA "Karakurt", 800 tons of displacement, plan to build for three or four years, with a constant increase in time! With that, they do not have ANYTHING. Neither expensive and complex air defense / missile defense systems, which allow "to strike a bullet with another bullet," nor megawatt radars, nor complex and sensitive hydroacoustics. What to expect from 800 tons?

The amazing paradoxes accompanying the implementation of military shipbuilding projects (and the defense industry in general) have their explanation in the form of a criminal article. And this is not a "betrayal." This is a more banal article 160 "Assignment or waste".

A simple explanation of complex matters.


It has long been clear that in the structure of the defense industry there are no orders and instructions, there are only orders. Managers at all levels execute orders from their superiors with the sole intention of increasing the share of their own profits in the implementation of each project. If the entire amount of the allocated funds goes to profit, then it does not matter - the project will simply be abandoned. And they will proceed to the consideration of the next “commercial offer”.

There is no other motivation for “effective managers”. That is how they see their task. A responsibility? Own do not throw.

Incredible construction time. Lack of production units. In the fleet, there are different types of ships and weapons against the background of irresponsible promises about the most incredible, fantastic weapons. Who will be responsible for the words about the creation of 200-node torpedoes with artificial intelligence, about the development of fifth-generation submarines (when in practice they barely mastered a pair of 4th-generation MAPLs), a 9-fly cruise missile and other near-scientific nonsense? ..

When the time comes, follow the usual excuses. Lack of shipyards, lack of technology, lack of personnel, and finally, lack of funds. It looks frivolous.

Shipyard is not a unique natural phenomenon.


The same shipyard is not a unique natural phenomenon, similar to the peninsula of Crimea. Shipyards tend to be built in a relatively short period of time.

Russia is able to build a cosmodrome in the midst of Siberian wilderness and the Zenit Arena stadium with a moving field of 7000 tons. But for some reason it turns out to be powerless before the construction of a 300-meter slip or a covered slipway with a bridge crane. On the territory of already existing shipbuilding facilities with all communications. Fortunately, domestic enterprises of this kind have no problems with the territory - all of them were created according to wartime calculations, with the dispersed infrastructure on the area 10 times larger than that of foreign military shipyards.

Instead, 30 has been saying for years about the remaining shipyards in Nikolaev, “the only place where aircraft carriers could be built”.


Construction of the tanker "St. Petersburg" project XNUMHK class "Aframaks" at the shipyard complex "Star". Deadweight: 114 tons. Main dimensions: length - 114000 m, width - 250 m, draft - 44 m

Or about the lack of personnel. Of course, they are not. Why a lot of cadres with the indicated volumes of purchases of military equipment? That Su-57, that “Armata”, that superfrigate “Gorshkov”. A handful of specialists will successfully handle the scope of work.

All the indicated problems do not exist. There is only a reluctance to produce "unparalleled" technology in any noticeable amounts. Because it will reduce the rate of profit.

Prospects are available, positive outlook


Any plans and expert calculations based on them - how many ships at the current update rate will be in the fleet for the 20 year, do not make sense. By the way, those calculations look very bad. Worse, only Roscosmos calculations on the base on the moon.

Experts believe that if the corvette or frigate in existing conditions are built on average 7-10 years, then the destroyer "Leader" will be built even longer. Too long to ensure the timely replacement of 1-grade ships of decommissioned. And the timing of the construction of an aircraft carrier may even be delayed until the end of the century.

Gentlemen, this is nothing. The current pace of construction of corvettes, frigates - imitation of activity. The superpower fleet is not built like that. The pace of construction is artificially slowed down / interrupted / stopped for known (already mentioned) systemic reasons.

It took enough time to realize that all the promises and plans of the last decades were not just broken. They were literally turned inside out!

The announcement of the appearance of 8 "Ash" before 2020, immediately sounded too unrealistic. But hardly anyone could have imagined then that, according to the results of the great and terrible state defense order, by the specified deadline, the current composition of the Navy would be just ONE multi-purpose boat of the 4 generation. All the same K-560 "Severodvinsk".

This is an imitation of activity.


The laws of logic are inexorable - if you do not build ships, they never will. The fleet will eventually decrease to the size of a coastal fleet capable of performing border and environmental protection functions. And then completely disappear. The same thing happens if you simulate rearmament, transferring the Navy to one ship every few years. For a country with four fleets and global ambitions!

But it is if they continue to say beautiful words instead of deeds.

If the key figures in the state and the military industrial complex really decide that the country needs a military fleet, this fleet will be built at a completely different pace. And it will be necessarily built! We have all the necessary capabilities, facilities and technologies, and will only continue to develop in the future. And if you need foreign assistance and components, we will not be shy. Those who achieve their goals are not judged. They are respected.

On this optimistic note, allow me to bow out, giving readers the opportunity to express their opinions.
273 comments
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  1. +10
    13 June 2019 05: 23
    The "continental" power is surrounded on three sides by seas-oceans ... How is it that the fleet is not needed !?
    1. +15
      13 June 2019 05: 33
      The entry into service of the next “Virginia” and “Arly Burke” is met by a statement no need Russia has to compete with in the number of ships with primordially maritime powers.
      Peter 1st, the propeller in the grave is spinning ....
      1. +18
        13 June 2019 06: 00
        No matter how funny it may sound, the Destroyers Leader will be built already at bulk

        At the very least, the existing team for 20 years has clearly proved that they will not build a fleet
        1. +7
          13 June 2019 06: 06
          So money is needed for this, but rich Russia does not have it, they have friends, friends are also important.
          1. +11
            13 June 2019 09: 22
            And laugh from the attempts of Ukraine ...
          2. +6
            13 June 2019 19: 58
            And what could be more important than the Leader’s friends?
        2. +16
          13 June 2019 06: 32
          At the initial stage, Oleg will not build anything already, but I completely agree with you about the current team; the advertisement has already reached about June 20, there will be another portion of noodles for three hours. hi
          1. -12
            13 June 2019 07: 24
            but where will others find for what means to do this?))) draw?
            1. +21
              13 June 2019 09: 02
              Quote: Bull Terrier
              but where will others find for what means to do this?))) draw?

              Tell me, Where did the Russian Empire find money for the Fleet? Where did the Soviet Union find (the remains of the Fleet of which we are currently using) ??? Do you want me - will you tell me?
              20 of the Largest Yachts of the Russian Oligarchs - at a Cost Above All Costs to the Russian Navy for the Last 25 Years! And their (Yachts) - far from 20 !!!
              So maybe not everything is right in our country ???
              There is an article on this topic in VO from 17.10.2018.
              The mood is spoiled in the early morning, painful and insulting for Our Navy!
              ALL - The Great Rulers of Russia, understood the Importance of the Fleet for the Country, sometimes I can’t through it - they built it and strengthened it. These names are in Our History!
              Well, Everyone - the reigning dwarfs, only had fun and squandered what they had inherited from their ancestors, and no one remembers these names except with bitterness and irony!
              The Russian people have an excellent proverb .... Good Glory - Better Wealth! But not all unfortunately understand its meaning!
              1. -14
                13 June 2019 09: 11
                Well, at least start with the fact that now it’s not RI and not a union. and what does anyone’s yacht have to do with it? Do you want to start taking money from others? to build a fleet with this money? and serve him for whose money then? start picking up from the middle class? and when they run out from whom to take? I understand everything, just trying to continue the logical chain of your words.
                1. +24
                  13 June 2019 09: 19
                  Somehow, I really doubt that you understand! Among our oligarchs - All as one Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg, innovators inventors from Zero earned fortunes with their own breakthrough ideas? Or all the same - those who turned out to be in the right place at the right time on time ??? And who was lucky to choose a reliable friend? Who owns all the wealth of our country under the Constitution? And who really? Do you naively believe that the wealth of 1/6 of the land will not allow Russia to build and maintain a combat-ready Navy, or are you just fooling around?
                  1. -15
                    13 June 2019 09: 27
                    and what is there to do at the right time in the right place? but this is lyrics. you did not answer, do you want to take something from those who live well? I'm not fooling around, I'm trying to understand how you want to take something from someone in the modern world.
                    1. +6
                      13 June 2019 09: 31
                      Yes, it’s very simple - To return to the People the Resources of the Country belonging to him (the People) - according to the Constitution! The term Nationalization, do you know?
                      1. -11
                        13 June 2019 09: 32
                        you can not continue on) these utopian ideas are familiar to me.
                      2. -3
                        17 June 2019 12: 48
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Return to the People the Resources of the Country belonging to him (the People) - according to the Constitution! The term Nationalization, do you know?

                        Take everything and share. Balls. What does anyone's yacht have to do with building a fleet, obscurantist? Are yachts being built at USC shipyards instead of warships? Or at the expense of warships? The yachts of American billionaires do not prevent America from building a fleet. And no one calls for nationalization there. It just doesn’t occur to them.
                2. +2
                  13 June 2019 10: 42
                  why such a long chain? let's take it away first!
                3. +9
                  13 June 2019 11: 24
                  Quote: Bull Terrier
                  Well, at least start with the fact that now it’s not RI and not a union. and what does anyone’s yacht have to do with it? Do you want to start taking money from others? to build a fleet with this money?

                  Where are the yachts from? Because all large companies do not pay taxes in the Russian Federation. In the USA this is impossible, in Europe they are fighting the same.
                  The small business, which was not able to derive income from taxes, is crushed by large business and networks.
                  1. +5
                    14 June 2019 00: 49
                    Quote: goose
                    Where are the yachts from? Because all large companies do not pay taxes in the Russian Federation. In the USA this is impossible, in Europe they are fighting the same.

                    Well, that's the reason for nationalization. After all, it was suggested that big business return to the Russian jurisdiction? It was . Even two offshore zones were created for them in Kaliningrad and Vladivostok (Russky Island). Participation in large-scale (and profitable) investment projects (national projects) was proposed and ... in response ... brazenly and categorically ... at the St. Petersburg Forum ... under cameras ... in the presence of foreign guests ... "Not a penny at the national .projects will not give "and the demand to give them power and a new perestroika. As in the "90s saints".
                    Even Siluanov’s jaw dropped.
                    This is treason and sabotage. This is tax evasion and the theft of national wealth. And criminal liability is a consequence. With the confiscation of everything and everyone, including friends and relatives.
                    So in fairness. And there is always a law for a fair decision.

                    And not to do this now, tomorrow they will sell their business to our sworn partners - Deripaska's example is obvious. And the "partner" has the aluminum industry.

                    But the fleet needs to be built, and there is a reason for that.
                    But responsibility for sabotage and sabotage must be extremely harsh.
                4. +4
                  13 June 2019 17: 47
                  And where did the Communists get the money to keep in service 377 submarines (including 250 nuclear) (1986 year) - to build and maintain 40 cruisers, BODs and destroyers, and even more 1500 smaller ships.
                  1. +3
                    13 June 2019 17: 53
                    The percentage of military expenditures of the USSR and the USA was approximately the same. From the report of the CIA- US GDP -4,4 trillion dollars. USSR-2,8 trillion. $. Military spending 315 billion USD and 220 billion dollars, respectively. I repeat all the figures from the CIA report.
                  2. 0
                    14 June 2019 18: 36
                    Quote: Sergey K
                    And where did the Communists have the money to keep in service 377 submarines (of which 250 nuclear)

                    And they did not have-printed candy wrappers. The result is bankruptcy and the collapse of the USSR.
                    1. +1
                      15 June 2019 18: 27
                      Can you build a nuclear submarine on candy wrappers? You accidentally don't have such candy wrappers - I’ll buy it at any rate
                      1. 0
                        20 June 2019 18: 37
                        Quote: Sergey K
                        You do not have such candy wrappers by chance - I will buy it at any rate

                        I do not have. Nobody had them. There were none at all.
                        This is the essence of the Soviet-style economy - building up an unsecured cashless money supply. Therefore, in conditions of a total deficit in the USSR, the director of the enterprise did not have the right to manage the wage fund, the size of salaries and bonuses was strictly regulated. Your desire to get a candy wrapper would qualify while a gross violation of financial discipline and theft of socialist property. Until the execution, depending on the size of your desire.
                5. +1
                  14 June 2019 15: 04
                  Quote: Bull Terrier
                  and when they run out from whom to take? I am

                  Have yourself loved ones! The poor have a pancake friends of the president! We help those who stay afloat with money on world exchanges! The corrupt officials! And all the many slimes of the current gang of crooks. You are still asking!
              2. -12
                13 June 2019 09: 53
                Where did the Russian Empire find money for the Fleet?

                Firstly, the Russian Empire was stably a 2-3 economy on the planet, so there was money.
                Secondly, the RI failed to build an adequate non-sailing fleet.
                Where did the Soviet Union find it?
                The USSR spent more on the army and navy than the United States, and the “tough exhaust” for such a monstrous cost was extremely modest.
                The 20 Largest Yachts of the Russian Oligarchs - at a Cost Above All Costs to the Russian Navy for the past 25 years!
                Do you care about strangers and honestly earned yachts? Do you propose again to start dispossessing, taking and sharing? Or do you think other countries have less?
                1. +14
                  13 June 2019 10: 34
                  Quote: Corn
                  Where did the Russian Empire find money for the Fleet?

                  Firstly, the Russian Empire was stably a 2-3 economy on the planet, so there was money.
                  Secondly, the RI failed to build an adequate non-sailing fleet.
                  Where did the Soviet Union find it?
                  The USSR spent more on the army and navy than the United States, and the “tough exhaust” for such a monstrous cost was extremely modest.
                  The 20 Largest Yachts of the Russian Oligarchs - at a Cost Above All Costs to the Russian Navy for the past 25 years!
                  Do you care about strangers and honestly earned yachts? Do you propose again to start dispossessing, taking and sharing? Or do you think other countries have less?

                  Well, I will try to answer in order:
                  Do not tell me who made the transition from the Industrial to the Raw Material Economy? Who opened the markets and ditched domestic producers? Who was so eager for the WTO - not having the opportunity to put up customs barriers?
                  Regarding RI - at the time of the beginning of the WWII, the industrialization that was begun, the entry of RI into the War - Stupidity, the weak and short-sighted king, was not finished, actually paid for it!
                  The USSR spent quite adequate means on the Army and Navy, which is actually confirmed by the fact that you have the ability to press keys and write posts. If we exclude free fraternal assistance (which was the cost of ideology) - the whole world ... a fairly normal economy, but with distortions, with insufficient development of the private sector and entrepreneurship, But ... The country was restored after the Second World War, the Army and Navy are combat-ready, Cosmos obeyed, people did not starve and calmly retired at 55 and 60 years old, could afford this pension - to help children and once a year to relax on the Sea.
                  I don’t care about strangers Honestly earned money, the key word here is Honest and not Earned!
                  You didn’t answer the question to whom the Wealth of the Country belongs, and I don’t need your answer ... because - according to the Constitution, the Earth, Mineral Resources and Minerals belong to the People and not to a handful of exploiters. Nationalization and period.
                  In Russia, even the Raw Material Economy is represented by some ugly semblance of it. Modest Norway - not the largest producer of minerals created on their background - The largest stabilization fund in the world!
                  Yes, some people need to be held accountable with the confiscation of "honestly" earned funds.
                  1. -17
                    13 June 2019 11: 51
                    Do not tell me who made the transition from the Industrial to the Raw Material Economy?
                    So it has always been like that, the structure of the economy has always been based on raw materials. Ask the first person that came “where are the treasures of the richest country” - and he will probably answer - “in the land”, not in people, not in talent ...
                    Who opened the markets and ditched domestic producers?
                    so you ruined it, I think it was you and those like you who made the absolute maximum possible for the country to be a haven for speculators, criminals and other degenerative state corporations in the state’s suction. Even domestic decent producers are forced to flee the country, about foreign investors (who, for example, raised almost the whole of East Asia in the shortest possible time) and have nothing to say, they shy away from lepers.
                    Who was so eager for the WTO - not having the opportunity to put up customs barriers?
                    they entered the WTO only in 2012, and something I did not notice a decline in production since then.
                    The USSR spent quite adequate means on the Army and Navy, which is actually confirmed by the fact that you have the ability to press keys and write posts.
                    The logic is gorgeous. “There would be no World War 2, there would be no me.” Hitler thanks too say?
                    Nationalization and period.
                    And hello Venezuela with Iran, and get up from our knees, yeah.
                    Modest Norway - not the largest producer of minerals created on their background - The largest stabilization fund in the world!
                    if you haven’t noticed, then the Norwegians are not much better than Swedes, Danes or Finns. Maybe it’s because of the civilized approach to building the state and society, without joy for “how, with the help of repressions and genocide, we managed to raise the economy”, without the “strong hand” of the tsar / leader / autocratic president, but not in any way fossilized?
                    1. +10
                      13 June 2019 12: 11
                      Corn, you are an “extraordinary” provocateur! So juggle - you need to have talent! Wasting time and chatting is no longer fun!
                      But you write more - you can eat better!
                      1. -11
                        13 June 2019 12: 18
                        I think you should accept a simple and well-known truth:
                        Throughout its thousand-year history, the Russian did not live as well as under Putin. Yes, not everything is perfect in the country, but it could have been worse.
                        Accordingly, the enemy of Vladimir Vladimirovich is the enemy of the fatherland.

                        That's all for me. hi
                      2. +6
                        13 June 2019 13: 30
                        Well, you are bent: Fatherland!
                        Or maybe you have it and it is your everything, your fatherland?
                        Well, the portrait you have in every room, that’s understandable.
                        Is there a red corner?
                      3. -1
                        14 June 2019 09: 36
                        Karl is wrong, first of all, a person’s life does not depend on his estate, but in the will of God, where did you get the idea that serfs were not happy? Do they have endorphins not produced? As for the alleged abundance in the Russian Federation and in the West, it was bought at a high price, namely the massacre of infants = their own children! Now people kill abortmies three million Russian a year, boast that the resources intended for their children, they eat cars and suits for trinkets trinkets and this you call a good life? As for resources, RI used all its resources, and Lenin and Trotsky took them west for paying for the revolution. Stalin stopped this, agents of the world behind the scenes shot and returned all the resources to the country. Traitors the top Communists sold the country, we are a quasi-colony of the Committee of three hundred like the whole world. We are robbed and exploited, a third of GDP is exported through offshore and sovereign funds, and the government strangles the industry with taxes and other means at the direction of the IMF, so as not to create competition for foreign manufacturers belonging to the company Wangward, that is, the Committee 300. Most of the domestic industry is already managed by Wangward ( Rusal, Norilsk Nickel and others), only Rosneft and Gazprom remained with Putin and they are also squeezed through the bulk and the revolution.
                      4. 0
                        14 June 2019 17: 54
                        Well then look at your cons!
                  2. +1
                    13 June 2019 12: 42
                    Quote: ANIMAL
                    according to the Constitution, Earth, Mineral Resources and Minerals - belong to the People and not to a handful of exploiter miners. Nationalization and period.

                    I do not quite understand the idea. 2/3 of oil last year was produced by state-owned companies (Rosneft, Gazpromneft, Tatneft). The remaining third (Lukoil, Surgutneftegas) are still capitalists, especially the latter.
                    For gas, gas production is actually monopolized by Gazprom.
                    Diamonds are a state.
                    Who else would you like to tweak? Metallurgists?
                    1. +7
                      13 June 2019 13: 32
                      The main thing is not a formal name.
                      A profit sharing system.
                      Here is Gazprom state, and that all the profits go to the budget, and whence then the dividends are billions.
                      This is what the state shows or not.
                      1. 0
                        13 June 2019 14: 16
                        Quote: Revival
                        The main thing is not a formal name.

                        I did not understand the idea. Do you propose to nationalize a state company or what?
                      2. +2
                        14 June 2019 01: 07
                        Apparently we are talking about the nationalization of non-state shares.
                        It seems to me that the nationalization of ALL offshore capital (assets) should be carried out under the headings "tax shelter", "theft of state property" and "treason".
                        Are offshore zones in the Russian Federation open? Nat investment projects and state co-financing proposed? Everything else is sabotage, wrecking and treason.

                        And the highest measure of social protection in law enforcement.

                        You will see - everything will work out right away.
                      3. -3
                        14 June 2019 06: 51
                        Quote: bayard
                        You will see - everything will work out right away.

                        I will not see.

                        Mom's Bolshevik note.

                        1. Offshore capital is called offshore because it is outside the national legislation ("beyond the shore"). Therefore, it is impossible to nationalize it, unless you arrange a worldwide revolution, of course. For the same reason, "internal offshore" is the delirium of shameless officials and illiterate journalists.

                        2. Normal people, unlike you, have a lot of passports, and they are rare in Russia. So the highest measure of social protection will most likely be applied to you. Here it is such a thing, there would be a desire, but there will be guilt before the working people.

                        3. So as not to get up twice. The notorious trillion in offshore is little. He will not decide anything.
                      4. +3
                        14 June 2019 15: 06
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        In normal people

                        normal people live in their homeland ... and those who have a lot of passports can’t live like that, they’re afraid ... request
                      5. 0
                        14 June 2019 15: 09
                        Quote: ser56
                        normal people live in their homeland

                        Here they will be under the highest measure of social protection.
                      6. +2
                        14 June 2019 17: 12
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Here they will be under the highest measure of social protection.

                        Do you want another round of repression? bully what for? it’s more important to establish reasonable rules in the country so that people can / benefit from honest work / earn ...
                      7. +1
                        14 June 2019 17: 29
                        Quote: ser56
                        what for? more important to establish reasonable rules in the country

                        More important, but bayard requested the first category.
                      8. 0
                        14 June 2019 19: 42
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        what for? more important to establish reasonable rules in the country

                        More important, but bayard requested the first category.

                        Only for particularly irresponsible and criminals falling under it. Our court was the most humane, and it should be \ become.

                        You have to pay for the right to earn money in Russia - with investments. This is beneficial for an honest investor and does not infringe on his rights.
                      9. 0
                        17 June 2019 20: 21
                        A trillion offshore is not enough! It was on him that the reformers headed by Chubais counted - Chubais said - "Perestroika appointed me captain, because I was able to throw the passengers overboard, then I would have saved the sinking ship! In 10 - 20 years, TRILLION dollars will return to build a new Russia "
                        Unfortunately Chubais was mistaken - they did not return ...
                    2. +6
                      14 June 2019 08: 10
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      2/3 of oil last year produced by state-owned companies

                      These "state-owned companies" are 49% owned by Western capital, and its influence on the policies of companies is very significant.
                      1. -3
                        14 June 2019 08: 37
                        Quote: goose
                        These "state-owned companies" are 49% owned by Western capital, and its influence on the policies of companies is very significant.

                        Is the influence of Western capital on Rosneft, Gazpromneft and Tatneft quite significant?

                        Putin’s hands are tied, yeah. We must rally and tolerate, I think.
                      2. +7
                        14 June 2019 08: 54
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Is the influence of Western capital on Rosneft, Gazpromneft and Tatneft quite significant?

                        Exactly. Often, a foreign share in state-owned companies is a majority stake, and the Russian part is divided between different structures, as a result, owners of the majority stake play the first violin on the board of directors. Something like this. Tatneft to a lesser extent, but Gazprom Neft and Rosneft do just that. From the instructions of the Government they dodge, as from crazy bullets.
                      3. -1
                        14 June 2019 09: 30
                        Quote: goose
                        but Gazprom Neft and Rosneft do just that. From the instructions of the Government they dodge, as from crazy bullets.

                        Are Miller and Sechin dancing to the Rockefellers tune?

                        Oh well. It turns out that such a picture of the world exists.
                    3. +1
                      14 June 2019 19: 56
                      Who else would you like to tweak? Metallurgists?


                      There is also not without a state, so to speak. Shares of metallurgical enterprises began to be squeezed out into financial structures related to the government rather long before. Simply, it was not advertised, and the dominance of gos.tachastiya never appeared ...

                      In fact, nationalization took place in the country, and that fatty in the form of credit fords-tricks and mortgages in Moscow, which the citizens perceived as something self-evident - this is her, this creeping nationalization, effect. By the way, already exhausted, we need a new focus. Pokus
                      1. 0
                        14 June 2019 20: 22
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        We already have a state there, so to speak.

                        Everything is complicated there. It is even more convenient for the state (in the person of its best representatives) that nominally the property is held by private owners. As the saying goes, put away - take a closer look.
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        that fat thing ... this is her, this creeping nationalization, effect

                        It’s a pity to upset you (and you won’t believe it), but nationalization reduces the efficiency of the enterprise always. Even Moscow, which is believed to be choking on money, is lower than São Paulo in incomes of citizens, not to mention Warsaw (counting median income in Russia is generally equivalent to espionage).
                        So the effect is in the sense that the focus, and not the Mondeo, is visible.
              3. 0
                13 June 2019 09: 57
                Quote: ANIMAL
                Where did the Russian Empire find money for the Fleet?

                The Special Committee on strengthening the navy for voluntary donations found the money! Are you ready to donate?
                Quote: ANIMAL
                Where did the Soviet Union find

                The Soviet Union did not need to be found, cutting back on the development of agriculture and the production of consumer goods was more than enough for the construction of super giants! Are you ready to stand in line for bread and sausage?
                Quote: ANIMAL
                20 of the Largest Yachts of the Russian Oligarchs - at a Cost Above All Costs to the Russian Navy for the Last 25 Years! And their (Yachts) - far from 20 !!!

                Only Gorbachev’s dacha in Foros is the annual income of the Omsk, Tomsk and Novosibirsk regions!
                Quote: ANIMAL
                So maybe not everything is right in our country ???

                Of course not right! The authorities need to be toughened up not only by the oligarchs, but also by the people, half of the media should be closed, only the Village Hour should be shown on TV, meetings, seeing off foreign delegations and the weather forecast!
                Quote: ANIMAL
                Great Rulers of Russia

                Wildly sorry, Lenin V.I. too great ones?
                Quote: ANIMAL
                The Russian people have an excellent proverb

                There is a very good one ... Walking broadly do not tear your pants! But not all unfortunately understand its meaning!
                1. -8
                  13 June 2019 10: 31
                  yes sense to explain it? after the words about nationalization, you can no longer listen. people live in the past, but for some reason they are trying to drag the past into the future. without realizing that people are completely different now. this can no longer be fixed. just wasting time. sometimes it seems to me that our country will begin to live well and develop in a modern way only when we who were born in the USSR disappear and do not pull it back with our memories.
                  1. +3
                    13 June 2019 10: 51
                    Quote: Bull Terrier
                    yes sense to explain it? after the words about nationalization, you can no longer listen. people live in the past, but for some reason they are trying to drag the past into the future. without realizing that people are completely different now. this can no longer be fixed. just wasting time. sometimes it seems to me that our country will begin to live well and develop in a modern way only when we who were born in the USSR disappear and do not pull it back with our memories.

                    That's the whole point, that I don’t need to explain anything, I gave my duty to the Homeland (although I did not understand when I owed it) soldier more than successfully fit into modern realities, I have income far above average tongue and built his welfare without sitting next to the government and not sucking on raw materials! Also spared the need to earn food through comments on the Internet laughing Yes I also have Wife Beauty, MSMK Athlete, European Championship love and Two (for now) beautiful Kids! Yes
                    1. -3
                      13 June 2019 10: 54
                      it’s strange that you don’t understand one simple thing: when they start to pick up something from some people, then you will also get under the distribution. if this begins then it can not be stopped. my life is similar to yours and I don’t really want to take part in this.
                      1. +1
                        13 June 2019 11: 01
                        You see, I - I am completely calm about this! I repeat, I was not in power, I did not sit on the resources of the Country, I did not engage in speculation. Anyway .... If something happens to me - Spouse feed, My fish love laughing - due to His past sporting achievements - preparing the new Sporting Elite of the Country!
                      2. -4
                        13 June 2019 11: 03
                        in the 17th year you know people for the most part, too, there was nothing to touch the various estates for. but it didn’t help them. I repeat, it's like a snowball. will sweep away everyone. and those who deserve and those who have nothing to do with it.
                      3. +4
                        13 June 2019 11: 15
                        Yes, where does 1917 come from? I am against the revolutionary path of development! Do you think that nationalization is possible only through the revolution? You are deeply mistaken! I knowingly gave you the example of Norway.
                        I am silent about the Gulf Countries - we have slightly different realities. There are many examples of successful nationalization in countries such as the UK, Italy, Germany, France, etc. Learn the question - Everything is freely available!
                      4. -5
                        13 June 2019 11: 27
                        you do not understand me either. no one will give anything voluntarily. nationalization is a dead end. you give Norway as an example, but we are sorry for its size. its population and ours at almost the same indicators. These examples for each individual work but not for the others. this is a futile argument actually.
                      5. +6
                        13 June 2019 11: 36
                        Here the problem is different! This is not a dispute, but unfortunately a polemic! Norway is not an example? Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy - too! Latin America - apparently also does not fit ... well, excuse me, I don’t know how things are going on there in Nebira and in the constellation Sagittarius.
                        Believe me - they will give it VOLUNTARY, and more than once they gave it, especially when you let me know - what can be lost. All oligarchs and those close to them are just Dust under the wheel of the State. The only question is what the Governor of the STATE needs!
                      6. -1
                        13 June 2019 11: 43
                        not an example for one simple reason — you mentioned Britain. what years was it? end 40 in my opinion? and in 80 privatization began and 10 years went. France? 80 in my last time? and you are aware that the owners were paid compensation and their sizes are generally not funny. we don’t have that kind of money. Well, in the third subsoil and stuff, they both belonged and belong to the constitution. nothing has changed the state gives just to extract from them and receives part of it. I speak rudely. Further more, it is that Gazprom or Rosneft are joint-stock companies with large stakes owned by the state. do not pull the owl on the globe.
                      7. 0
                        13 June 2019 12: 04
                        Guys, everything is right, the differences in you are only in the details and accents on the syllables smile , I support both, because I know both for a long time, especially St. John's wort, and he is his boyfriend. hi
                      8. +5
                        13 June 2019 13: 39
                        And what does it mean no one will give their ...
                        Why is it your own if they declare that it is common?
                        Your position resembles:
                        The thief stole from you, you caught up with him, and a passerby tells you, well, you see, he doesn’t return voluntarily, well, let him go with your good not to arrange a fight.
                        Wipe and forget it turns
                      9. -4
                        13 June 2019 15: 23
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        You are deeply mistaken!

                        No, Alexey, you are simply mistaken! Nobody will let you build Norway in Russia! And what are you going to nationalize? Most of the extraction of natural resources and so belongs to the state!
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        the Governor of the State!

                        That is, the current one who pulled Russia out of the pit, is it not a statesman for you?
                      10. +4
                        13 June 2019 20: 24
                        Please tell me, do you really consider Him a Sovereign? Without irony, to be honest ... I didn’t vote for him more than once (I’m deceiving, I chose him in Komsomolsky without voting) .... until 2018 (and here I was fond of Crimea, the last term is nothing do not be afraid and write your name in the history of Russia) and .... the result ??? We save the sanctioned friends, we raise the pension (it’s violet to me), a country with a growth rate of the banana republics .... in my opinion, it’s somehow not according to the State it.
                      11. -2
                        14 June 2019 09: 39
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Please tell me, do you really consider Him a Sovereign?

                        Personally, I am. (although there was no question for me). Yes, there are many mistakes, yes, not everything that is done is like it. But if you compare our country in 90's now, this is a huge gap. Almost cosmic scale difference. And do not say that the whole thing is stupid in the price of oil. For some reason, it seems to me that if EBN were in power now, they would not have lived much better than 90's.
                      12. -7
                        14 June 2019 12: 47
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Do you really consider Him a Sovereign?

                        Yes, I think so! In addition, I believe that he is much more a statesman than Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko, Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Grudinin combined!
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        until the 2018 of the year (and here I was fooled, for the Crimea, that the deadline is last - and you can not be afraid of anything and write your name in the history of Russia) and .... the result ???

                        laughing My friend St. John's wort, well, to be honest, my answers are purple to you! You would have a bag of money and a little more fat .... Life is a success!
                      13. +1
                        14 June 2019 14: 01
                        Today is a wonderful day! I went fishing with small ones, successfully, rested - ate, I look out the window as the Kids feed the bird. The mood is excellent, it is not necessary to go to the city until Monday. bully
                        Why did Sergey (apparently) decide that I was not interested in your answer? On the contrary, it’s very interesting.
                        To begin with, that bag of money - I probably do not need, enough of what is available for cars, apartments and a country house. Started with Spouse love - Travel again, as Kids can be rafted by grandmothers. Shmat sala is also not needed, in the first place I don’t really like it, and in the second place I have enough of my own - I cook and treat my friends. I hope the definition from the second post about "slobbering intellectual" does not apply to Me. So - now the question!
                        Particularly interested in what, in your opinion, did He do - precisely as a Statesman? Give five examples, I will even help you ...
                        1. He stopped the war in Chechnya, more precisely - he bought the world, which is also not a bad decision.
                        2. He returned the Crimea.
                        Well, then ??? I’ll climb into the cellar for the “cold” and I will wait for an answer. Alexei.
                      14. -1
                        14 June 2019 14: 22
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Interested in what, in your opinion, He did - precisely as a Statesman?

                        Sorry, I don’t know your name ...
                        What did he do? And then my friend and do not have to go far! He made the inner life of Russia such that you can calmly ..
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Go fishing with small ones, have a good time, take a rest - eat, look out the window as the Kids feed the bird. Great mood

                        Is not that enough?
                        It was he who achieved the conditions in the country under which ...
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        a bag of money - YOU probably do not need it, enough of what is available for cars, apartments and a country house. YOU started with Spouse - to travel again, since Kids can be rafted by grandmothers. Shmat sala - also not needed

                        You tell me of course that you achieved everything yourself and it has nothing to do with it! And partly be right! Why from part? I have little doubt in your honesty and decency, but here you answer honestly ... Under the previous rulers of Russia-USSR, would you be able to achieve the same results in your life?
                      15. +2
                        14 June 2019 14: 40
                        My name is Alexey, 1976 - year of release!
                        I also went fishing with Dad and Grandfather, Grandmother - by persuasion and slap in the neck ... forced to feed the chickens and for this I gave me the coolest great for eight years - KAMU!
                        Dad with Mom - were in Bulgaria, East Germany and Yugoslavia. Therefore, somehow I did not quite understand - what kind of achievement is this ???
                        And yes ... like that, all by themselves, I only thank the motherland for the free higher education, well, Duck and three years in the MP Black Sea Fleet ...
                        Spouse - in general Everything for the Motherland Everything for Victory, from the age of 12 in training camps and competitions, practically did not live at home .... Therefore, she earns Excellent!
                        Do you think in the Soviet Union-this would be unattainable?
                        I repeat the question - specific actions as a statesman?
                      16. -1
                        14 June 2019 15: 35
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        three years in the MP Black Sea Fleet

                        what Did you take part in the storming of the house against General Khryukin?
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Dad with Mom - were in Bulgaria, East Germany and Yugoslavia

                        Your dad and mother were one of the few lucky ones, mine never even went to the resort like this, father, an experimental carpenter, received 180 p. Mom-senior nurse 80 p. Moreover, so that she would have a pension of 100 p., She had to work for 5 years at 2 rates, for this mother, since 15 years, I almost did not see. Having worked on the collective farm for 30 years, my grandmother received a pension of 30 p. Parents didn’t get an apartment, although 427 were in the queue, they had been waiting for ILNX for 412 for years, their father was nearly arrested once because he brought a sand car without documents. Being in the 8 class, I earned money on my KAMU by folding the 8 boxes of the month at the Forestry Plant. Let's just say that my middle childhood passed in the city of Suvorov, Tula region. Starting from the 2 class, my mother woke me up early so that I could buy white bread in the store, because after 3 min. After opening, the bread ended. I spent Saturday and Sunday in the company of my grandmother, because my parents went to Moscow for groceries.
                        To enter a university, it was necessary to join the Komsomol, without it, even though you were the most, the most child prodigy, the probability of admission was minimal.
                        Do our memories of childhood and youth differ?
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Do you think in the Soviet Union-this would be unattainable?

                        Unattainable what?
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        bag of money - I probably do not need, enough of what is available for cars, apartments and a country house. Started with Spouse - travel again,

                        It? Yes, I think that this would not be achievable, well, unless of course you are the son of party workers, the prosecutor, the head of the KGB department, the head of the police department, the military commissar, and the director of the plant.
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        specific actions as a statesman?

                        Don’t be offended by Alexey, but your logic is lame. Well, if you do not understand my examples ...
                        He defeated seven-bankers, stopped the collapse of the country, created an economic situation that had a beneficial effect on the development of small and medium-sized businesses .. yes, yes .. look at the growth of welfare of the Russian population from 2002 to 2008. He managed to overcome the mafia of the Yeltsin general and begin the reform of the army. He began the construction of highways of federal significance. He laid down long-term programs aimed at updating and improving the administrative system ...... and at least for this he can not be called a statesman?
                        Alexei, it happened so that you became president ..... what would you do? It would be interesting to see your thinking about this?
                      17. +2
                        14 June 2019 16: 00
                        I do not understand about Khryukin belay
                        I am not an attack aircraft! hi
                        In the seven-bankers .... Friedman, Aven and Potanin - languish in the dungeons?
                        Regarding the collapse of the country, I partly agree with Tatarstan - it turned out smoothly. Well, what kind of choice did he have?
                        On the reform of the army - I do not find decent words, Serdyukov - the main reformer? Yes - the idea is Great, but the execution? And, most importantly - there are no guilty! I'm waiting for everything - when Vasilyeva will sing a new song ....
                        On the road - well, also not an example. Where is the river fleet ???
                        Navy fleet - in general, sob.
                        Sergey, I even have a VUS - Individual! So in managers do not break.
                      18. -2
                        14 June 2019 20: 05
                        I can't find decent words for army reform, Serdyukov - the main reformer? Yes - the idea is excellent, but the execution?


                        Syria has passed you by? Well, or find a young one, who fought on the same adjacent territory in 2014 - I had a lot of such people in the circle of communication. And I am very - VERY impressed with what they were telling. Given that for them, of course, it seemed self-evident.

                        So, the execution turned out to be quite on the level, just with separate excesses, and they overlooked behind the fleet, yes.

                        And whoever contacts our ground forces, let him prepare to catch the ratio of losses "from 1: 100 and above in favor of the Russians."
                        Well, Syria.
                      19. -1
                        15 June 2019 08: 59
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        I do not understand about Khryukin

                        You definitely served in the 94th BMP in 810?
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Great idea, but execution?

                        The main thing is not execution, the main result! The 2014 army was fundamentally different from the 2008 army!
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Friedman, Aven and Potanin - languish in the dungeons?

                        laughing What for??? What is the use of them in the dungeons? They shared money with their homeland and are sharing right now.
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Well, what kind of choice did he have?

                        Yes to hammer on everything, squeeze out a piece fatter and live happily without hassle and an irregular working day, what is not an option? Birch and Hodor would only be happy!
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        On the road - well, not an example either

                        Why is this so?
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Where is the river fleet ???

                        Why do you need it?
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Navy fleet - in general, sob.

                        It was necessary to sob in 90's when a chop was made from the fleet !!
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        The managers are not torn.

                        Well, to understand, you need to try to put yourself in the place of the critic.
                      20. 0
                        15 June 2019 14: 09
                        Good afternoon. I wrote personal data in PM. I see that our argument does not produce results. Therefore, I propose to finish it. The only thing that pleases is that We Both two are worried (albeit in different ways) for the Fleet. Well, we see a few different reasons ... good luck to you. hi
                      21. -1
                        17 June 2019 09: 42
                        Have a nice one you too! hi
                      22. +2
                        14 June 2019 17: 56
                        About the Komsomol, you gave a blunder. No obligation was required, since I also studied at TPI.
                      23. -1
                        15 June 2019 07: 05
                        I didn't give a swing! I don’t know how it was with you in Tomsk, in Frunze it was so with rare exceptions. Although I think that Ligachev and Zorkaltsev carried out some kind of "democracy" in your region.
                      24. -6
                        13 June 2019 15: 17
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        preparing the new Country Sports Elite!

                        That's why you and your wife and children will be put to the wall! And nobody will be interested in yours
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        I was not in power, I did not sit on the resources of the Country, I did not engage in speculation.

                        Do you have uncle seeds? And if I find it?
                        Your hut on the edge in your "bright" future will not work!
                      25. +4
                        13 June 2019 15: 42
                        Quote: Serg65
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        preparing the new Country Sports Elite!

                        That's why you and your wife and children will be put to the wall! And nobody will be interested in yours
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        I was not in power, I did not sit on the resources of the Country, I did not engage in speculation.

                        Do you have uncle seeds? And if I find it?
                        Your hut on the edge in your "bright" future will not work!

                        Excuse me, are you at all in yourself? To the wall Me, Wife and children ??? Have you read Solzhenitsin ??? BLOOD totalitarianism seems?
                        From a previous post, I realized - that you were underweight in the USSR - sausages were underweight ... it happens, but this ... They’ll put them to the “wall” - A clear sign of mental illness! For what? for Coaching current and future champions? Athletic performance is like the prestige of the Country ...
                        Or for the fact that, in our free time, we are engaged in the rehabilitation of sick children with exercise therapy on the water, are we looking for sponsors for this?
                        What are Seeds? In what year and which gateway were you stuck? Do you really sincerely believe that the People are one solid Lumpen and Gopnik? Well .... I am truly sorry for you!
                      26. 0
                        14 June 2019 09: 49
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        Have you read Solzhenitsin ??? BLOOD totalitarianism seems?

                        He just knows the history of the country and people well. And you would not hurt. When it comes to "take away and divide everything", no one asks about previous achievements, but looks at a car-apartment-dacha. Or do you think that if you really have no envious people? Believe me, if your income is decently above average, then you are deeply mistaken.
                        Of course THEN they may cry "who we lost." But personally, this will not make it easier for you.
                        Or do you really think that those who started this torment in February 1917 thought that after six months they would tear up their trousers and hide their family values ​​across the border? No, of course, Vsezh thought that now we’ll expel these, we ourselves will live ... Or were the peasants so eager to work on collective farms for workdays? Do you really think so?
                        Good intentions, you know yourself.
                        We must not live by dreams, but today, here and now, do what we can. By forces. And not build "projects for a world revolution."
                      27. +1
                        14 June 2019 13: 00
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        For what?

                        Oh my friend, there would be a man, AND WHAT they will always find!
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        In what year and which gateway were you stuck?

                        laughing You see, you are already desperate for your family!
                        Quote: ANIMAL
                        The people - one solid Lumpen and Gopnik?

                        Sincerely not! Only after the slobbery intellectuals raise a butch (you see they lack freedom), lumpen and gopniks naturally came to power!
                      28. +1
                        14 June 2019 20: 00
                        And who will ask you something? Is there a car? And Vasya, who joined the party of nationalizers, did not have her homeless.
                        Shoot the counter.
                        And then my wife, and then beautiful, but does not give Vasya, disorder, it is not proletarian. To the wall too.

                        After all, this was all already gone, why again? Moreover, in fact the creeping nationalization has already passed, if you look at how many assets belong to companies with state capital, it turns out that the state is our main capitalist. And this is without taking into account the withdrawals of profits through various tax mechanisms.

                        The increase in the standard of living that was in 2005-2014 is from there, if that.
                2. +1
                  13 June 2019 19: 16
                  Quote: Serg65
                  The Soviet Union did not need to be found, cutting back on the development of agriculture and the production of consumer goods was more than enough for the construction of super giants! Are you ready to stand in line for bread and sausage?

                  Pff ... You still ask - is the guardian for the USSR ready to voluntarily and forcibly give half of the salary on loan to the state? Ali already forgot about government bonds? wink
                  1. +1
                    14 June 2019 13: 07
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Ali already forgot about government bonds?

                    From chegozh, two of the houses still lie behind Zverev’s signature wink
                    After all, it’s not only the state loan that is interesting, for some reason many have already forgotten voluntary subbotniks with 8-hour salary deduction to the Peace Fund, Sundays under the slogan five-year plan for three years ... COMPLETED AND EXCEEDED, REACHED AND EXCEEDED !!!!!
                    hi Welcome Alex!
                    1. 0
                      14 June 2019 20: 07
                      And the potatoes? Not in the sense of eating, but in the sense of going to the farm and digging? And aid to African countries? "White bread for black children, black bread for white children"?
                      Topic not disclosed, Sergey.
                      1. -1
                        15 June 2019 06: 53
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Topic not disclosed, Sergey.

                        I don’t complain about childhood, I had a wonderful childhood ... slingshots, scarecrows, arson, Hungarian, neighboring gardens, pigeons fried on a fire ... the ordinary life of a Soviet boy ...
                3. +1
                  14 June 2019 09: 31
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Of course not right! The authorities need to be toughened up not only by the oligarchs, but also by the people, half of the media should be closed, only the Village Hour should be shown on TV, meetings, seeing off foreign delegations and the weather forecast!

                  Good night, the kids forgot. No way without them.
              4. +5
                13 June 2019 17: 45
                20 Largest Yachts of Russian Oligarchs


                I read and don’t understand - why did you have to remove the Tsar, then remove the Union, and then breed the new tsar and new nobles, but they don’t understand how to fight and die on the Borodino field, and build yachts .... Russians won’t understand .. ..
                1. +1
                  14 June 2019 09: 51
                  Quote: Keyser Soze
                  why would you remove the Tsar, then remove the Union

                  Many people are asking this today. Therefore, they don’t want to remove anyone already. Do not be dashing while it is quiet
              5. 0
                14 June 2019 11: 59
                I propose to recall how the whole world, after the defeat of the Russian squadron, revived the fleet by the whole people. My great-grandfather, who was also shot by the Bolsheviks, donated a quarter of his fortune to the construction of a new imperial fleet, and he was also an alegarch. And our modern alegarchs chew snot that they are sub-sanctions. And he fought to the last breath against the Balsheviks in the Volga and Central Asia, not just like these.
            2. +1
              14 June 2019 15: 04
              Quote: Bull Terrier
              but where will others find for what means to do this?))) draw?

              we have so many different funds that God knows where they lie .... Some ZVF under 500yards ... request
          2. +2
            13 June 2019 10: 33
            again they will tell us that there is no time for buildup)
          3. -1
            13 June 2019 20: 01
            “Under Navalny” (conditional), of course, nothing will happen. The current "Team" the best that is in Russia, they will not - and Russia will not.
        3. +6
          13 June 2019 06: 49
          No matter how funny it may sound, the Destroyers Leader will be built already at bulk

          Bulk in prison should have been sitting for a long time by law. But for some reason, the government will not put him in any way. I wonder why?
          1. +5
            13 June 2019 07: 18
            Bulk in prison should have been sitting for a long time by law. But for some reason, the government will not put him in any way. I wonder why?

            And who to throw into the thick of all the speeches, and then yell about the Maidan and the fifth column then?
          2. +1
            13 June 2019 07: 31
            I will answer with the words of the iron chancellor: "If you cannot destroy, then lead!"
            1. -1
              15 June 2019 18: 28
              Quote: Friedrich
              I will answer with the words of the iron chancellor: "If you cannot destroy, then lead!"

              N. Machiavelli: “If you cannot defeat the crowd, head it”
          3. +12
            13 June 2019 07: 31
            Quote: Artemiy_2
            Bulk in prison should have been sitting for a long time by law. But for some reason, the government will not put him in any way. I wonder why?

            Duc, Navalny is in a sense convenient for Putin's ruling regime! Over the years of Navalny's existence, the image of a "mutant" ("semi-oppositionist", half-clown ...) has developed. Not everyone takes Navalny seriously ... his rating does not exceed 9%, in my opinion ... If you "remove" Navalny, then. .. (a holy place is never empty!) ... a more convincing (!) oppositionist (leader) may appear: smarter, more strong-willed with "non-standard" (unexpected for the authorities ...) methods ...
            1. +6
              13 June 2019 09: 44
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              the image of a "mutant" ("semi-oppositionist", half-clown ...)

              tried and tested, in the same clip were clowns from television series and reality shows, with the same rating
            2. +5
              13 June 2019 19: 19
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Duc, Navalny in a sense is convenient for the ruling regime of Putin!

              I’ll tell you more - our entire opposition is convenient for the current government. For they are the best agitators for Putin. smile
              And we have no other opposition. No one is ready now even to go to Shushenskoye for beliefs.
        4. -1
          13 June 2019 09: 38
          Under Navalny, nothing will be built, do not flatter yourself. Under him, the remnants of the fleet will be cut into metal, to please the western "partners" And the army with the Aerospace Forces there, in open-hearth furnaces.
          1. -2
            13 June 2019 20: 04
            Because GDP is “our everything”, leader, savior, last hope. We are so insignificant that no one is worthy anymore
        5. +2
          13 June 2019 10: 24
          With bulk, nothing will be built and there will be no country.
        6. 0
          13 June 2019 13: 01
          with bulk on the star will be built Gerald Fords and all sorts of Arles.
        7. +2
          13 June 2019 13: 24
          Quote: Santa Fe
          No matter how funny it may sound, the Destroyers Leader will be built already at bulk

          Do Navalny in the country's development program says the need to build destroyers? A link to such documents?
      2. +2
        13 June 2019 07: 09
        Airdrome, I agree here: Peter1 WANTED and built.
        1. +2
          13 June 2019 07: 26
          And then they also plundered the treasury, enriching themselves through the construction of the fleet.
          The population was not asked if a fleet was needed or not. The state did not have to worry about social support of any kind, about teachers, pensioners, schools, and other non-military sectors. Then it was enough for theft and the fleet. And if not enough, then a new tax or file.
          And here you see, not enough for everything.
          But the boyars do not sleep. Prince Chubais has proposed introducing a new tax just now. It will be called Mendeleaic. Its essence is to pay for each element of the periodic table. They will start with carbon, and then we'll see.
          That’s sure to be the fleet!
          Peter would be pleased.
        2. +3
          13 June 2019 07: 33
          Quote: knn54
          Petr1 WANTED and built.

          Peter I, often, built on human bones ...
        3. 5-9
          +1
          14 June 2019 10: 39
          He did not want to. The fleet was needed to solve very specific, urgent and nearby tasks. Moreover, the linear fleet showed itself practically in no way, and all victories are the actions of the rowing littoral fleet. And then the fleet came into its usual Russian naval state (from which it came out sporadically, briefly and expensively) - into disrepair.
      3. 0
        13 June 2019 09: 11
        So you need to put the shaft, and connect to the generator.
      4. 0
        2 September 2019 07: 56
        Quote: Aerodrome
        Peter 1st, the propeller in the grave is spinning ....

        Peter didn’t have a Strategic Missile Forces, VKS and other ICBMs, otherwise all the other countries would have turned on something with Peter ..
        Paradoxically, but our leadership has an understanding that the (oceanic) fleet for Russia is an unthinkable crap, absolutely not giving any advantages, the author cited the pace of construction from the "partners" (and if something happens, you will have to deal with everyone, and not individually) and looking at them there are no chances to catch even theoretical .. Because for this we need the people of some kind of a billion and a half and the economy is ten times more than the current one, then you can play "ships", but for now it is a waste of money .. Aviation, space, rocketry will give parity to all attacks of "partners" is much more effective and we will be able to do this, unlike the naval program .. The time of galleons (battleships, battleships, AUG) has passed there is no point in organizing a sea battle when you can glaze the home port .. We have everything necessary for development in our country, we do not need colonies, we don’t need to drag resources from the distant sea, we supply goods with pipes. And if someone turns off, then you just need to show political will and put the stupid impudent in place, and how this will be done by the AUG or a pair of ICBMs is no longer important ...
    2. +8
      13 June 2019 07: 20
      When Russia will have a strong fleet

      With the modern Guarantor and his hangers-on oligarchs, the answer is one: - NOT SOON!
    3. -3
      13 June 2019 07: 32
      No money - no ships. Fleet pleasure is very expensive. By GDP in dollars, 11th place. Less than Canada, Italy, Brazil
      Honorable 10-place?
      strictly parity. What is enough, then we keep it.
    4. 0
      13 June 2019 12: 54
      A lot of things are needed. You have to choose the most. In addition, the work week should be reduced to 4 days ...
  2. +9
    13 June 2019 05: 26
    And this is not "betrayal." This is a more common article 160
    This is just this betrayal!
    And not only in the navy!
  3. +6
    13 June 2019 05: 27
    In fact, the "big" "classic" - "balanced" fleet, in the new conditions, Russia does not need it, it is really, very expensive pleasure, and the place of the Russian fleet is now limited - it does not have any special geopolitical ambitions - a lot of its territory out, empty. It used to be that the fleet was needed to cover the flanks of its ground forces and to deploy the submarine fleet. Now it is outdated, in the event of a global conflict, the fleet will not have time to turn around, they will kill it right in the bases, and in any case it will be weaker than the combined enemy fleets and will be quickly destroyed. Russia needs a powerful submarine fleet capable of independently breaking through enemy submarines and powerful mine-barrage forces, and new types of mines with "artificial intelligence" are needed that can move under water at different distances, maneuver if necessary, move to a positional position and back, select targets and etc. and able to be in position for years in combat readiness.
    1. +7
      13 June 2019 07: 02
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      In fact, the "big" "classic" - "balanced" fleet, in the new conditions, Russia does not need it, it is really, very expensive pleasure, and the place of the Russian fleet is now limited - it does not have any special geopolitical ambitions - a lot of its territory out, empty.

      For the development of thought set (+). good
      I can add only one: out of four fleets, SF and TF have access to the world ocean in surface quality, and both fleets are perfectly blocked in the event of a global war. About the BSF and BF, we can say that this is the Navy of domestic consumption (due to geographical conditions).
      The submarine fleet of the SF and TF has greater capabilities and accessibility to access to the ocean.
      I support you in the thought of waging war using new methods and means.
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Now it’s out of date, in the event of a global conflict, the fleet does not have time to turn around, they crush it right in the bases, and in any case it will be weaker than the united fleets of enemies and will be quickly destroyed.

      good
      Repeat day after day:
      Generals always prepare for last war
      Moreover, if these are generals from the Ministry of Emergencies, or from some financial economy, or from electronics, or some other cavalry.
      The author presented excellent material, red thread the thought passes that one cannot rush slowly. It’s time to move from the tortoise step to at least a slight agility ...
      I think this is the main thing:
      TO ACHIEVE ADVANTAGES IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ARMED FORCES WELL ALL ALL MEANS: FROM FULL MOBILIZATION (until it's not too late), BEFORE FULL CONFISCATION AND DEATH PENALTY.
      1. -4
        13 June 2019 07: 34
        I support. We’ll start with the oligarchs, then we’ll move on to millions, then just to prosperous and pennants,
        dispossess you.
        But first, we’ll define you at the shipyard to show how to build an imperial fleet so that it alone can withstand all the capitalists of the world in all directions at the same time.
        Passed already under Peter (then they also stole mercilessly) and under the Bolsheviks (when all "talkative experts" were assigned to a master class)
        1. +7
          13 June 2019 07: 44
          I'm not at that age to do some kind of construction. I already rebuilt my own at the installation of overhead lines. He was going to fist ... Dunya go fist ... Was it scary to live in a 192 meter apartment? They passed under Peter .. Under the Bolsheviks, he determined the master class ...
          Younger people will come and find you a place and determine your merits in the rank of "silent professional embezzlers" ...
          1. -3
            13 June 2019 07: 52
            The standard answer of a "khataskraite" is: you have to shoot, but there's nothing for me, I plowed mine. Do not worry, the young will find a place for you in the shipyards.
      2. 0
        14 June 2019 15: 12
        I support. Moreover, it is generally surprising that after the actual collapse of the education system, the lack of qualified personnel, we are still able to build something at all. Moreover, the developed designs, the same frigates 11356 and PL 636 are being built at a fairly reasonable pace. But with the new big trouble (remember the debugging of Poliment). That’s why I pray that, God forbid, they would take one instance for sawing Leader or Storm for 20 years, and the serial construction of already worked out structures and systems, the same Yasen submarine, frenate 22350 and the destroyer 22350m based on it continued.
      3. 0
        14 June 2019 18: 03
        In general, the SF is also practically locked, starting from the exit from the bases. All Atlantic passages are controlled by NATO fleets and submarine sonars.
    2. +1
      13 June 2019 19: 21
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Russia needs a powerful submarine fleet capable of independently breaking through enemy PLO

      No chance. If only because the main opponents of submarines operate in a different environment and therefore are invulnerable to submarines. But submarines are very vulnerable for them.
    3. +1
      13 June 2019 20: 06
      The main thing is not to forget to timely purchase Chinese and Korean microchips for AI
  4. +5
    13 June 2019 05: 28
    Now it’s not important how you earn, now it’s important how much. Surely effective managers make good money and this is the main thing in our country.
    1. +4
      13 June 2019 05: 34
      Quote: savage1976
      Surely effective managers make good money and this is the main thing in our country.

      the word "for sure" is superfluous.
      1. +5
        13 June 2019 05: 53
        I agree))) I just didn’t manage to calculate their income myself.
      2. 0
        13 June 2019 07: 06
        Quote: Aerodrome
        the word "for sure" is superfluous.

        Surely this:
        Quote: savage1976
        Now it’s not important how you earn, now it’s important how much. Surely effective managers make good money and this is the main thing in our country.

        SARCASM!!! Yes
        But the two either did not understand or disagree, unlike us.
        And we don’t leave ours either! Yes
  5. +2
    13 June 2019 05: 33
    For such results, the entire top management of USC can be held accountable. And there will be real terms equal to those for which ships were built.

    good Despite the ranks and ranks.
    Excuses like, "Due to circumstances beyond our control", sweep aside.
    There is a risk of deliberate overestimation of the deadlines at the stage of concluding a contract, strict independent monitoring.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. +16
      13 June 2019 05: 56
      This year, the first Poseidon carrier, the Belgorod nuclear submarine, was launched.

      The media is lowered.

      The question is in the existence of Poseidon. In the form in which it was presented. Super speeds for large displacement objects, super depths, artificial intelligence and unprecedented scope

      Considering the price of other “promises”, the answer to this question, as well as about the 9machw rocket in onyx dimensions, is rather banal. Pre-election grenade. Its main value is that such a promise cannot be verified, any parameters can be set.
      1. +8
        13 June 2019 07: 38
        Considering the price of other “promises”, the answer to this question, as well as about the 9machw rocket in onyx dimensions, is rather banal. Pre-election grenade.


        Your words would be yes to God in the ears, but alas, this cut goes approximately from 1984 year and eats unmeasured money continuously all this time. This is the most gigintsvkaya naval scam in human history, apparently.
    2. +8
      13 June 2019 06: 20
      What kind of economy is this and the fleet, there is a clear correlation, China is the 1st world economy, and the fleet is also the first, Russia is 11-12th in the economy and the fleet is about the same, everything is clear!
      1. -2
        13 June 2019 06: 50
        Russia 11-12 place in economics

        Russia is actually the 6th place
        1. +6
          13 June 2019 07: 50
          If at par GDP then 12.
          1. +1
            13 June 2019 20: 19
            A completely devastating score in the field of the number of industrial robots per 1000 workers. In the Republic of Korea - 300+, USA - 172, small European countries - 20-100. We have ... 5. Cybernetics - the walking girl of capitalism, we will go the other way, in a word ...
            1. +1
              14 June 2019 08: 21
              Quote: 3danimal
              Absolutely devastating score in the field of the number of industrial robots per 1000 workers

              A very good example, modern means of production are robots, like tractors used to be. It is they who create the greatest added value and, accordingly, the GDP.
        2. 0
          13 June 2019 12: 42
          Well, if you take GDP at PPP, then the sixth of course, but then it does not fight with my theory wink
        3. 0
          14 June 2019 18: 26
          laughing laughing laughing why did you get a minus ???
      2. 0
        13 June 2019 20: 20
        The first is the USA, at the moment. Second China, Third Japan ...
  7. +7
    13 June 2019 05: 42
    Here, the author, unlike many of his publications, cannot but agree.
    1. -6
      13 June 2019 06: 17
      Indeed, the Russian Navy in quantitative specifications lags behind the Navy's main geopolitical opponents! And it is very unfortunate. But now we are at the stage of the revival of the fleet, well, we don’t have a magic wand, and geeks for whom our own pocket is more expensive than the country are still full.
      But let's go, send new ships, new (fundamentally new) weapons.
      And one more thing, purely on personal feelings: just recently, during the time of Anatoly Eduardovich, it seemed everything - the seams had arrived, a disaster! But a man who seemed to be also far from military service came, and the situation changed dramatically and quite quickly! Shoigu - really engaged in the defense of the country! But recovery is always more difficult!
      1. +5
        13 June 2019 07: 20
        Quote: Valery Valery
        Shoigu - really engaged in the defense of the country! But recovery is always more difficult!

        If it’s difficult for him, let him call his daughters for help. And then I see that it is not at all difficult for him to go to Japan ... This is much more important than conducting a personal inspection in the fleets ... belay
        Quote: Valery Valery
        But a man who seemed to be also far from military service came

        And was it necessary to immediately invite a person who is far from military service to the position of the Ministry of Defense? What prevented the placement of any specialist at all in the form of Serdyukov? This vicious practice continues for many years, when lawyers and various teachers who are far from it are involved in the economy, journalists - in space, - health engineers - economists, banking system - accountants ...
        This is only in humorous programs when they are twisted and twisted:
  8. 0
    13 June 2019 05: 49
    All the forces urgently to build aircraft carriers? What is the purpose? Expansion around the world? Or, all the same, the case when Russia may need a STRONG fleet, this is the case when it is necessary to use "Vanguards" and "Ash", in extreme cases, "Zircons" from all carriers ... AUG and other Ticonderoga are a means of PRESSURE on those who do not have it!
    1. +6
      13 June 2019 07: 26
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      All the forces urgently for the construction of aircraft carriers?

      Perhaps the construction of the AUG is not the cheapest procedure, but could the $ 2019 withdrawn from Russia since the beginning of 40 somehow contribute to this?
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      it is a means of PRESSURE on those who do not have it!

      The presence of a huge dog in the yard does not require inserting into the inscription: "Caution! Angry dog!" words - "evil". Yes Sometimes just this kind of "pressure" is enough ...
    2. +9
      13 June 2019 09: 30
      Well, the article also says that even with submarines the trouble is:
      even Putin himself spoke at the beginning of GPV-2020 about 8 Ash-trees = according to the results of 1 Severodvinsk + if Kazan is in a hurry.

      Let's go to Pacific Fleet - there whole ONE atomic multipurpose boat. Which itself must ensure the deployment of naval strategic nuclear forces. Against the heap Virginia (obviously 5-6 boats will be allocated) and Elk + some more Soryu will come from Japan.
      You say so there are diesel boats! There is. They are in Vladik for 2500km from the base point of the marine component of the strategic nuclear forces.

      And the deployment itself at the Bolshoi Theater cannot be provided with diesel engines.

      Bottom line - the naval component of the strategic nuclear forces will fire ammunition directly from Vilyuchinsk. Or will be destroyed trying to get out of the bases.

      The main question is, why then do you need to spend public money on expensive nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles? If there are no covering forces and deployment support. The submarine fleet of NATO and vassals is similar in relation to the surface fleet (that is, there is not much chance) against Russia (+ excesses like in the Pacific, when all nuclear multipurpose boats rotted and even Bratsk and Samara, which they planned to fix quickly, were actually suspended for bidding with the Hindus )

      Cheaper and most importantly, it’s more efficient to purchase a similar number of the same mobile systems (Yars). With the condition of shooting from the base, the Yars will be both more efficient and more stable (because it’s possible to bring them to the route from the deployment point faster and it will be much more difficult to use weapons of destruction on them).
      1. 0
        13 June 2019 13: 25
        At the end of last year, the K-331 Magadan multipurpose nuclear submarine, which had been in the water area of ​​Far East Plant Zvezda in Bolshoy Kamen for about 10 years, was waiting for repair, was put into the boathouse of the plant, which was vacated after the K-186 Omsk nuclear submarine was withdrawn 949 project. I expected that instead of “Omsk” there will be another 949A for repairs with modernization. Chelyabinsk was waiting for its turn.
      2. 0
        14 June 2019 09: 58
        You have touched on a deep topic. Tof is not so weak in the surface attitude he is steeper at the moment than the SF, three BOD plus a cruiser, against one BOD plus a cruiser constantly sent to Syria .... The question is why the fleet in Vladivostok is not worse than the Baltic and has only one Tsushima as a way out? There can only be two answers. 1. a surface fleet is generally useless in principle, and is not suitable for ensuring the safety of a nuclear submarine base. And the safety of the Submarine Exit is ensured by underwater systems, coast-based aviation and the invisibility of the submarines themselves .... then it is his place in Vladik as a useless thing. 2 A surface fleet would be useful in Vilyuchinsk, but its meaning is not in war, but in the careers of careerists, and their convenience, then a cozy Vladivostok with its cafes is more comfortable than foggy Kamchatka, and careerists becoming admirals and moving to the General Staff of the Navy keep the fleet in Vladik for their sons and nephews, providing them with a convenient career on ships of the first rank and screaming about their urgency due to the lack of pitching. And these sailors are destined for uncomfortable submarines in the north and Kamchatka, as well as minesweepers and IPCs, where cap5 commanders have nowhere to grow ....... Nuzhngo need to transfer the entire Pacific fleet to Petropavlovsk. Baltic them Caspian altogether disband. Three fleets of Russia are quite enough, but they are strong, providing safety, nuclear submarine bases, and control of the Bosphorus. Who minus that careerist and is afraid of pitching ... minus the truth.
  9. +3
    13 June 2019 06: 14
    By the way, “Belgorod” took the 1st place from “Severodvinsk” in the struggle for the Guinness Book of Records as the biggest long-term construction. good
    1. -6
      13 June 2019 06: 56
      Belgorod has been under construction since 2012. Enough to tell these tales about the 30-year long-term construction of Belgorod and deceive gullible people
      1. +3
        13 June 2019 07: 52
        no need to tell gullible people that the boat was built in 7 years stop By the way, not yet built. The anniversary will be 35 or 40 years old
        1. -5
          13 June 2019 07: 59
          specifically, as a status carrier, it has been built since 2012. Prior to that, it was on conservation
          1. +5
            13 June 2019 08: 06
            great good
            in 15 years they will tell us that Belgorod, as the carrier of the bathyscaphe, is being built in just 1 year. And about Granites Caliber Poseidons for him, etc. they will forget. But construction will continue on a new project
            1. -7
              13 June 2019 08: 07
              you do not know how to troll. Bye
  10. +6
    13 June 2019 06: 25
    The fleet is such a thing, here you can’t do cartoons
  11. +1
    13 June 2019 06: 27
    That took and spoiled the mood right in the morning. I don’t understand how to live now.
    1. +4
      13 June 2019 07: 28
      Quote: MooH
      That took and spoiled the mood right in the morning. I don’t understand how to live now.

      Eat your sandwich with caviar and go to work in your DG and there think and understand ... laughing
  12. +10
    13 June 2019 06: 30
    The first article by Oleg Kaptsov, with which I agree 300%, of the fleet, we do not have only talk.
  13. +1
    13 June 2019 06: 48
    Something I do not understand, is there some kind of competition in the world in the number and tonnage of ships? England is an island, they have as many as 29 infantry battalions in the NE (including the palace guards, paratroopers, military advisers and instructors). Italy is a peninsula surrounded by friendly countries. Not to mention the fact that both countries are part of NATO.
    1. +8
      13 June 2019 07: 25
      Something I do not understand, in the world there is some kind of competition in the number and tonnage of ships?

      No competition

      For the competition you need a ship level daringa / berka / 055. At least one 1 for 5 years
      1. -14
        13 June 2019 07: 31
        Quote: Santa Fe
        No competition

        what If Mr. Kaptsov himself joined the social defamation contest of the Russian Navy, then he could see the development of the fleet starting to step on his feet .... or the election campaign had already begun, and Oleg ???
        1. +6
          13 June 2019 07: 39
          Serge hi where are our destroyers ?? launched "Gorshkov" around the world, we show the flag, laugh at the chickens
          1. -9
            13 June 2019 07: 54
            Quote: novel xnumx
            where are our destroyers ??

            Roma, well, why do you fly-destroyers? Their absence prevents you from sleeping? laughing
            1. +5
              13 June 2019 07: 56
              yes, it interferes !! I want big ships!
              1. -3
                13 June 2019 08: 52
                Quote: novel xnumx
                I want big ships!

                What obsessions come to you what ... Tie Roma, I'm starting to worry about you !!!
                1. +1
                  13 June 2019 08: 55
                  can you think strategically? the more really large ships, the higher the likelihood of a successful coast defense by drowning them in the narrow!
                  1. -1
                    13 June 2019 09: 14
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    the higher the likelihood of a successful coast defense by drowning them in narrow spaces!

                    what Nakhimov Pavel Stepanych was not in your ancestors?
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    can you think strategically?

                    I can of course ... sometimes. There is a reason?
        2. +2
          13 June 2019 07: 40
          What kind of development? Thank God 22350 is not hacked to 4's ships. That's all development. And they could, Sergey.
          1. -5
            13 June 2019 07: 57
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            What kind of development?

            laughing Alexander, yes transplant everyone to zero, or going to meet the desire to shoot the Communists, as it were, business then! And you will develop laughing
            1. +2
              13 June 2019 11: 17
              Do not attribute to me such nonsense, please.
              1. -1
                13 June 2019 11: 40
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Do not attribute to me such nonsense, please.

                Received
      2. 0
        13 June 2019 07: 48
        Then it makes sense to bring countries located in completely different conditions?
  14. -1
    13 June 2019 07: 03
    It depends on what is considered a "strong" fleet. If oceanthen it is justified if available overseas territories... These were colonies among the European metropolises; in the late USSR - "countries of socialist orientation". Without overseas bases, the "ocean" fleet will be just a set of show-offs.
    So it's up to "territories".
    1. 0
      13 June 2019 10: 34
      This is stupidity bordering on betrayal.
  15. +4
    13 June 2019 07: 08
    Uncertainty with the fleet is a consequence of political uncertainty ...., there is no consensus - insidiously capitulate now or bargain a bit ....
    1. +5
      13 June 2019 09: 03
      Quote: wooja
      Uncertainty with the fleet is a consequence of political uncertainty ...., there is no consensus - insidiously capitulate now or bargain a bit ....


      Let's imagine, for example, that some persons appointed you the director of a plant in order to liquidate this very plant. Naturally, this task has been brought to you and you represent your role. But being not a stupid person, you understand that if you destroy him in a moment, you will not become just as quickly necessary, they will hang all the dogs on you (they will tell the workers of this plant that it is you who are to blame for everything) and they will remove you, well, so that "ends in the water" just in case. If you fall apart for too long, then you will not be needed either, they will find and therefore you start to maneuver, then destroy a little faster, then a little slower, then even restore somewhere a little so that the plant workers do not lift you up on a pitchfork. And so you break it down little by little (you naturally cannot refuse, who are you give) and everyone yourself see how to stand on an equal footing with these certain persons, because now it is no longer a question of a good and satisfying life, it is a question of survival.
      1. +2
        13 June 2019 09: 06
        like that....,
      2. 0
        14 June 2019 20: 15
        Imagine, for example, that some persons appointed you the director of a plant in order to liquidate this very plant. Naturally, this task has been brought to you and you represent your role. But being not a stupid person, you understand that if you ruin him in a moment, you will not become just as quickly necessary, they will hang all the dogs on you (they will tell the workers of this plant that it is you who are to blame for everything) and they will remove you, well, so that "ends in the water" just in case. If you fall apart for too long, then you will not be needed either, they will find and therefore you start to maneuver, then destroy a little faster, then a little slower, then even restore somewhere a little bit so that the factory workers do not lift you up on a pitchfork


        This is a fairytale. Nobody collapses the factories like that, the incomes of the staff are cut, he leaves (in the case of the country he dies), the shop can be closed.
        Tales children chelenov Communist Party rassayvay.
        1. 0
          15 June 2019 08: 57
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Imagine, for example, that some persons appointed you the director of a plant in order to liquidate this very plant. Naturally, this task has been brought to you and you represent your role. But being not a stupid person, you understand that if you ruin him in a moment, you will not become just as quickly necessary, they will hang all the dogs on you (they will tell the workers of this plant that it is you who are to blame for everything) and they will remove you, well, so that "ends in the water" just in case. If you fall apart for too long, then you will not be needed either, they will find and therefore you start to maneuver, then destroy a little faster, then a little slower, then even restore somewhere a little bit so that the factory workers do not lift you up on a pitchfork


          This is a fairytale. Nobody collapses the factories like that, the incomes of the staff are cut, he leaves (in the case of the country he dies), the shop can be closed.
          Tales children chelenov Communist Party rassayvay.


          A tale of lies and a hint in it.
          Why didn’t you understand Alexander?
          1. 0
            15 June 2019 14: 03
            A hint at the circumstances that never existed outside the inflamed brains of people with memory like a fish. I remember a minute ago, I don’t remember two.
            1. 0
              15 June 2019 18: 23
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              A hint at the circumstances that never existed outside the inflamed brains of people with memory like a fish. I remember a minute ago, I don’t remember two.


              You definitely don’t understand anything.
              1. 0
                15 June 2019 18: 31
                Well, how not to understand that when he joins Crimea, Putin simply masks his anti-people essence of the country's liquidator.

                Only this is rut.
                1. 0
                  15 June 2019 19: 18
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  Well, how not to understand that when he joins Crimea, Putin simply masks his anti-people essence of the country's liquidator.

                  Only this is rut.


                  And the Crimea has nothing to do with it!
                  Gon say? How then to understand all of our reality?
                  1. 0
                    15 June 2019 20: 56
                    How, then, to understand our whole reality?


                    And what to understand ... in 2005-2008, Putin and the Company switched the financial flows from the sale of carbohydrates to the interior of the country, moreover, they ensured that this money reached ordinary people in the form of an increase in salaries and consumer loans. In fact, it was and is creeping nationalization - only instead of taking away the property from the owners, financial flows were taken away from them, and part of the blocks of shares that went to financial structures, whose chains of owners, somewhere in the end, rested on the Government of the Russian Federation. So they raped Khodorkovsky's YUKOS, and I remember how Putin personally stuck out in our region and, as eyewitnesses said, "broke" the local oligarch. All this caused a furious rise in the standard of living for Russia - you can compare yourself with the Germans and cry, but in fact, the inhabitants of Russia have never lived this way in history, in principle. Well, when did it happen that Moscow was in many ways ahead of New York in quality of life? When was Paris a garbage dump compared to St. Petersburg? And so that residential buildings have no parking spaces? In the provinces, thousands of kilometers from Moscow? Only since then.
                    In the US, a couple of cars in the family is a long time ago, but was it the norm before Putin? And now how?
                    No, everything is far from ideal, of course, but it is incomparable with a single period of the previous history.
                    Since 2014, the process has gone in the opposite direction - firstly, the effect of quasi-nationalization has been exhausted, secondly, the fall in oil prices, and in the third place people are credited with the credit of the economy, too, died.
                    People feel the loss of pace in their own pockets, but they cannot understand anything - our people are dark, they don’t have logic, and most importantly, they have a very bad memory.
                    Taken together, these three factors give rise to an increase in dissatisfaction with the existing government. the "rebels" have little mind, then they express their claims to the authorities simply completely divorced from reality, and are easy to manipulate, in especially pathological cases they can be agitated for any nonsense, if you add to it "and it will be like in the USSR" (and how a person with a leaky memory can remember how it was in the USSR? Only fragmentarily).

                    That's how I understand the situation.

                    By the way, there are ways out of the deadlock, and they are trying to find them, but see what kind of people we have - and it’s the people who are the personnel supplier for the government. Therefore, everything is done slowly and crookedly. But I can say - at least the Ministry of Industry and Trade began to think in the right direction. Checked personally.
                    It turns out, however, as always, most likely, but there is nothing to be done, a society like that.

                    So exhale and enjoy the moment, good or bad for you, but Russia is nearing the end of one of the happiest periods in its history, enjoy what you can, soon it will end.
                    1. 0
                      15 June 2019 21: 32
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      How, then, to understand our whole reality?


                      And what to understand ... in 2005-2008, Putin and the Company switched the financial flows from the sale of carbohydrates to the interior of the country, moreover, they ensured that this money reached ordinary people in the form of an increase in salaries and consumer loans. In fact, it was and is creeping nationalization - only instead of taking away the property from the owners, financial flows were taken away from them, and part of the blocks of shares that went to financial structures, whose chains of owners, somewhere in the end, rested on the Government of the Russian Federation. So they raped Khodorkovsky's YUKOS, and I remember how Putin personally stuck out in our region and, as eyewitnesses said, "broke" the local oligarch. All this caused a furious rise in the standard of living for Russia - you can compare yourself with the Germans and cry, but in fact, the inhabitants of Russia have never lived this way in history, in principle. Well, when did it happen that Moscow was in many ways ahead of New York in quality of life? When was Paris a garbage dump compared to St. Petersburg? And so that residential buildings have no parking spaces? In the provinces, thousands of kilometers from Moscow? Only since then.
                      In the US, a couple of cars in the family is a long time ago, but was it the norm before Putin? And now how?
                      No, everything is far from ideal, of course, but it is incomparable with a single period of the previous history.
                      Since 2014, the process has gone in the opposite direction - firstly, the effect of quasi-nationalization has been exhausted, secondly, the fall in oil prices, and in the third place people are credited with the credit of the economy, too, died.
                      People feel the loss of pace in their own pockets, but they cannot understand anything - our people are dark, they don’t have logic, and most importantly, they have a very bad memory.
                      Taken together, these three factors give rise to an increase in dissatisfaction with the existing government. the "rebels" have little mind, then they express their claims to the authorities simply completely divorced from reality, and are easy to manipulate, in especially pathological cases they can be agitated for any nonsense, if you add to it "and it will be like in the USSR" (and how a person with a leaky memory can remember how it was in the USSR? Only fragmentarily).

                      That's how I understand the situation.

                      By the way, there are ways out of the deadlock, and they are trying to find them, but see what kind of people we have - and it’s the people who are the personnel supplier for the government. Therefore, everything is done slowly and crookedly. But I can say - at least the Ministry of Industry and Trade began to think in the right direction. Checked personally.
                      It turns out, however, as always, most likely, but there is nothing to be done, a society like that.

                      So exhale and enjoy the moment, good or bad for you, but Russia is nearing the end of one of the happiest periods in its history, enjoy what you can, soon it will end.


                      What you wrote is not at all convincing, at all. You can break up everything you wrote with numbers, but if you would like you would find these numbers anyway, so it will be in vain.
                      I agree that this will end. What will be the big question afterwards.
                      You better write about the fleet.
  16. +3
    13 June 2019 07: 10
    The construction terms are going through the roof. But why?
    I think everything is simple, it is unprofitable to build QUICKLY, because it needs to be invested in the modernization of production, it is necessary to hire more workers, it is necessary to seek new contracts that are not the fact that they will.
    So, ships are built on this for almost ten years at times, so people work, and there will be orders. And the profit - in our time, on state orders is made simply - part simply goes straight into the pocket and is divided among the right people.
    1. +2
      13 June 2019 19: 29
      Quote: Bad
      I think everything is simple, it is unprofitable to build QUICKLY, because it needs to be invested in the modernization of production, it is necessary to hire more workers, it is necessary to seek new contracts that are not the fact that they will.

      Yeah ... the problem is that Zvezda has nowhere to supply its 112-cylinder monsters except for the fleet. And the management is faced with the question - is it worth investing in the expansion of production, if in a couple of years the GPV in the part of small ships will be taken and cut, because the "caliber carriers" after leaving the RIAC are not particularly needed, and for the MPK diesel engine with 112 "pots" ?
      And on the other hand there is Kolomna. Which is fully loaded for many years with orders from Russian Railways. And which the naval diesel engines saw, if not in a coffin, then very close - for they pay little money for them, but a lot of fuss with them. And this fuss also requires money.
      1. 0
        14 June 2019 20: 17
        Well, kakby star not only made monsters. And not only can they do.
        If the money that was spent on "Pulsar" would be used on the same Star, but wisely, they could create something on the basis of the existing serial small diesel engines that they previously had in production. And raise the service.
        Sense would have been quite.
  17. +2
    13 June 2019 07: 22
    There is nothing special to add to the article, everything is correct. For those who believe that the Russian fleet is not needed, let us first look at the globe. Our land is 70% the surface of the oceans and seas. Those who own a strong fleet own most of our globe.
    1. -6
      13 June 2019 10: 40
      Do we need to own most of the zemshara? Our interests are 1/6 and its surroundings. We are not going to land troops on the coast of Canada and conduct convoys there. My opinion, as a non-sailing person, but flying: the first thing is to develop aviation. Powerful aviation will multiply any fleet by zero. What about the fleet? Nuclear submarines and their destruction.
      1. +1
        13 June 2019 13: 08
        According to this logic, the next aviation and army in the list, why do they need nuclear weapons, and then why do we need a thousand warheads and hundreds enough to cover NATO. And how to protect the remote islands where there is no aviation.
        1. -6
          13 June 2019 13: 18
          Logically, we do not need an ocean fleet. A fleet is needed for coastal defense and nothing more. We need: a multi-layer air defense system, powerful aircraft and strong ground forces. Nuclear triad - by itself. Are we not going to project power onto the whole globe?
          1. -1
            13 June 2019 18: 36
            By whose logic, American or English? Then, of course, yes. But for our Russian, it’s definitely needed! Firstly, the carrier group is a healthy factor, no worse than a couple of nuclear bombs. Now imagine the situation: In Belarus, anti-Russian Maidani hit the Poles with a urine in the head, they decided to hit the Kaliningrad region while Belarus doesn’t let our troops pass, their aircraft and fleet are not able to come or our ships will go out, will an aircraft carrier be needed here or not? And do not say that Poland is a member of NATO and they will throw a nuclear bomb on it, there will be no such thing. In this situation, the Poles will be scared off by a strong Baltic fleet, with an aircraft carrier. Fantasy of course, but life is not predictable.
            1. 0
              13 June 2019 18: 43
              How many minutes will an aircraft carrier last in the Baltic Sea, which is shot through from the coast? The fleet does not dance against the coast. Any shipping in the Baltic will be prohibited by coastal means. In the Kaliningrad region, it is enough to have a powerful ground group, a sufficient number of aircraft and a small fleet to defend the coast from possible landings.
              1. -1
                13 June 2019 19: 37
                And the communications to this area? They are only by sea. You place at least a hundred divisions there without supplying them with a cord, for this I translated a (fantastic) example of how and why a strong fleet is needed, there will be maritime communication, there will be the possibility of protection. Isn’t it either the task of the region, or a blow to a neutral country to break through the corridor, and all are neutral in the NATO bloc.
                1. 0
                  13 June 2019 19: 54
                  The maximum width of the Baltic Sea is about 350 km. This means that it is shot through by almost any coast-based anti-ship missiles located, for example, in the Baltic states. That is, no convoys are possible until the destruction of these complexes. And it’s much easier to hit them either by forces of the ground forces, or by crushing them by aviation. Yes, a fleet is needed, but gigantomania, especially in the Baltic, is useless. It is better to use these funds to strengthen the valiant VKS.
                  1. -1
                    13 June 2019 20: 40
                    To drown, the ship still needs to be discovered, the earth is round. The missile launcher can shoot at three hundred kilometers, but they can’t see the target from this distance. The ship is not a plane, it’s sailing low. For guidance, it’s either close or close to it from the plane, but he will not be allowed to fly in peace, and launching will not mean that the rocket will fly.
                  2. -1
                    14 June 2019 08: 47
                    Quote: AS Ivanov.
                    Better to use these funds to strengthen the valiant VKS
                    moreover, not only the VKS, but also the air defense, strategic missile forces, and SV require amplification!
                    fully support! The Baltic and Caspian fleet, this is only a cut of the budget of the Ministry of Defense for unnecessary admiral positions. Sawing not only in the USC!
                    but also in the navy! the contents of the Aircraft Carrier is also cut, because he has no combat missions and capabilities. Reducing to three fleets is a rational decision, and leaving the three ships of this rank in the Caspian and Baltic.
              2. -1
                14 June 2019 08: 49
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                small fleet for coastal defense

                for this, he is also not needed, coastal defense is more effective from the shore than from the water
          2. -1
            14 June 2019 08: 53
            The fleet is needed only as the long arm of the nuclear triad, that is, in the form of nuclear submarines and the structure of their support, exit and return, and it is just that they are given insufficient attention only 6 units remain, this is when screaming about meaningless aircraft carriers destroyers and other career ladders for those who are afraid pitching.
          3. 0
            14 June 2019 20: 18
            and strong ground troops.


            They are already the second in the world after the American ones, and when they collide, close to our borders and amers do it. somewhere else?
            1. 0
              15 June 2019 09: 28
              remember 1941
              1. 0
                15 June 2019 13: 36
                http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2019-03-29/1_1039_agressia.html
          4. 0
            21 June 2019 11: 25
            There is no one to effectively cover the underwater component of the "triad", the article says this.
  18. +9
    13 June 2019 07: 40
    A handful of specialists will successfully cope with the set scope of work.
    ..The handful is getting smaller and smaller ... I will tell Kramol, why do we need a fleet, what should we defend? .. "Russian aluminum", which became American without any military actions? ... They take and surrender the country from the inside. that all the developments and developments will become foreign ... without war ... They write a lot about it now, how we will reflect the aggressor as everything is, but the more such articles, it seems that we will not have to reflect anyone ... they will say, well, it happened ..
    1. -1
      13 June 2019 10: 34
      Donkey loaded with gold will take any fortress ...., in the 41st did not ride, in the 91st it went off with a bang ...
      1. 0
        21 June 2019 11: 34
        Have you ever tried to study these events on your own?
        What is the donkey in 1941? Banal calculation of brute force, training (the Germans did not mow 3/4 of the command staff), surprise, and he almost paid off.
        By 1991, they went almost bankrupt, with a bunch of debts, already very dependent on oil prices (the Pipe was built under Brezhnev, if that). I had already borrowed from Western governments, for political requirements (or drowned in the blood of striking miners, but the problem was that there was a high probability that the punishers would refuse to do this and deploy weapons in the opposite direction). It turned out that without repression and total silence of the problems of the USSR can not exist ...
  19. +5
    13 June 2019 08: 48
    When will Russia have a strong fleet?
    When will a nationally oriented government appear and followed by the economy (and not its semblance).

    And this is not "betrayal." This is a more commonplace article 160 “Assignment or embezzlement”.
    Assignment and embezzlement are the essence of betrayal.

    This is not our power!
  20. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      13 June 2019 10: 15
      The construction of oligarch yachts is financed by the oligarchs themselves and they build them over the hill.
      .... But not happy, it turns out that we can’t build ships of this class at home ...
      1. +3
        13 June 2019 10: 22
        Quote: parusnik
        .... But not happy, it turns out that we can’t build ships of this class at home ...

        The main thing in the yacht is decoration and comfort. And all the luxury tinsel only over the hill, so historically.
  21. 0
    13 June 2019 10: 22
    Nothing to add correctly.
  22. -1
    13 June 2019 10: 27
    It’s not clear from the article, why do we need to build warships if money can be “mastered”?
  23. -8
    13 June 2019 10: 29
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    Russia needs a powerful submarine fleet capable of independently breaking through the PLO of opponents and powerful mine-defensive forces.

    Russia needs a large mosquito fleet of surface defense ships and submarine strike ships and uninhabited nuclear-powered powerplanes.

    The displacement of the ships should not exceed 1000 tons, which is quite enough to accommodate the sea-based analogue of the Pantsir-M air defense missile system with the Gvozd anti-aircraft missiles, the RBU with homing anti-torpedo missiles and universal silo launchers to accommodate the Zirkon, KR missile launchers. The caliber of "anti-aircraft missiles of the sea-based analogue of the S-400 air defense system or missile-torpedoes (as appropriate), as well as quadrocopters and remote-controlled small-sized underwater vehicles for anti-submarine and mine defense.

    The displacement of the nuclear submarine should also not exceed 1000 tons, which is quite enough for the habitability of 11 crew members (with automation at the level of the UUV), 4 universal torpedo tubes, 10 Zircon missile launchers, 10 Shkval M6 torpedoes and RBU with anti-torpedo missiles.

    Low-tonnage submarines provide 100-interest sweep 200-mile Russian sea area from enemy submarines (with an order of magnitude smaller degree of secrecy), as well as create mode 24h7h365 a risk of command points in the US national territory, with the flight time 6 minutes to a depth of up to 1000 km from the coast of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, becoming a complete analogue of American medium-range missiles in Europe.

    Well, the cherry on top in the face of atomic NSVs in the Poseidon's mass dimensions: a 40-ton displacement and a variety of 10-ton payloads - from 100 Mtn special warheads to reconnaissance equipment.

    The specified structure of the Navy is universal for any theater of military operations (including the Baltic, the Black, Caspian, Okhotsk and Japanese seas) and allows to provide the ship composition at the level of the main enemies at an order of magnitude lower costs. At the same time, each of the domestic ships at a distance of 1000 km will be able to sink an enemy surface ship of any class (up to an aircraft carrier) using a pair of Zircon hypersonic missiles with 100-ktn special warheads or at a distance of 25 km any enemy submarine using a supercavitating homing rocket torpedo "Shkval" M6 with 5-ktn special warheads.

    The first step in this direction has already been taken in the form of a new - geopolitical type of nuclear weapons by the NPA Poseidon, which is pushing the naval component of the Russian strategic nuclear forces to the first place in our nuclear triad.
    1. +3
      13 June 2019 15: 37
      Run faster from the heat!
      You are apparently sunbathing right in the sun.
      Or at least take a white panama hat over your head
    2. 0
      14 June 2019 20: 20
      At the same time, each of the domestic ships at a distance of 1000 km will be able to sink an enemy surface ship of any class (up to an aircraft carrier) using a pair of Zircon hypersonic missiles


      He already what, flew on 1000 km? What a twist!

      Yes, this is the same Andrew Operator wrote laughing
  24. +4
    13 June 2019 10: 33
    Thank you for the article. And, that the most filthy end and the edge of this Putin's circus is not visible. Actual affairs are replaced by rattle in the media. Here many ask the question: Where to get the money? And they will not be! Here, a month ago, 450 billion were thrown from the budget for oil pumps from the leverage, so that prices at gas stations would not rise. By lovu- a month ago, Rosneft AI95 stood at 45,25, and now it is 45,90. I remember when they threw people to retirement age, the annual budget savings were even less than now unfastened to the oil workers!
    And we will continue to listen to the chatter, "we will build" and not "we have built." But 450 billion rubles is for a minute - the cost of 4 (four) cruisers 1144 from scratch.
    1. -3
      13 June 2019 19: 00
      450 billion were allocated to maintain the current level of oil production and the development of new fields. Without this, the size of oil production may begin to decline. Previously, there were foreign investments, now, for obvious reasons, they are not. So, this money is investment in the domestic industry, about which they buzz without stopping.
      1. 0
        13 June 2019 21: 08
        Oil production, yes, it’s a pancake industry, here’s a full-cycle auto plant for me, this is an industry, refrigerators do at worst.
        1. -2
          13 June 2019 21: 36
          And you yourself will buy these cars with refrigerators? It is difficult to compete with leading manufacturers, our products will be more expensive and less quality, for obvious reasons. No? So I will not. Especially if all the components will be our production. So these plants are candidates for bankruptcy. You can, of course, force the consumer to buy domestic by introducing barrage customs duties, but you will be the first to howl.
          1. 0
            13 June 2019 21: 48
            If the organization of production is organized as it should, then everything can work out, and our quality will be worse than the Chinese. I work in industry, and I know that our people are not stupid, and they know how to monitor quality if they wish (it depends on the company, they monitor it somewhere specifically, but somewhere they don’t know what it is).
          2. 0
            13 June 2019 21: 55
            As for more expensive, also not a fact. We have less salaries if the productivity at the enterprise is at the level, then it certainly will not be more expensive. And for the productivity to be at the level, you need to invest in updating the production, and everything will be fine.
      2. +1
        13 June 2019 23: 23
        And if we say straightforwardly, the oilmen who paid to the budget were pulled back! I am amazed at your shamelessness, you dashingly justify the lawlessness of the "poor" oil pumps. Does Russia need such a type of oil industry that not only works only for itself, but also pulls money from the budget forced out of the people? The next year, their appetite increased to 1,3 trillion.
        Or maybe the reason is different - the bust of "defective managers" with wild bonuses.
  25. +4
    13 June 2019 11: 38
    "The young man hopes ..." What "superpower" ???
    Superpower is, first of all, people, not territory! The basis of the social elevator in Russia is nepotism, and not the mind of honor and conscience. As a result, these short-sighted people, guided by a momentary whim (do not blame everything on the USA), destroyed science, engineering schools and education in Russia.
    The fleet, like aviation, is currently a very knowledge-intensive and very technologically sophisticated industry. Just to restore everything that is destroyed, you need at least a hundred years. And this is only under favorable conditions, which something is currently not observed ....
    The "superpower" can only be saved by the socialist structure of society (and this is just one of the factors), in which it is possible to organize large state social and industrial projects. But we ourselves have driven ourselves into the stall, and we revel in the lie that we are the fucking stupidest. And the big polar fox is already peeking out over the horizon and sneeringly grins at our pathetic attempts ...
  26. +3
    13 June 2019 11: 42
    The Soviet backlog will eventually come to naught! Russia will not be able to compete even with third world countries, not to mention mattresses! Too bad money is doing its job!
  27. +1
    13 June 2019 12: 31
    In fact, everything is quite simple, we look at the ratio of military and merchant fleets. The maintenance of the navy pays off only thanks to the turnover of goods.
    1. 0
      14 June 2019 20: 21
      Our tonnage merchant fleet is three times less than that of the United States, and the number of vessels under the national flag is generally larger.

      And what is there to watch and count?
      1. 0
        17 June 2019 13: 33
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        And what is there to watch and count?

        Watch turnover with the Russian Federation in monetary units and gross profit.
        1. -1
          17 June 2019 13: 40
          Commodity turnover with the Russian Federation?
  28. +1
    13 June 2019 12: 55
    With such a guide - never.
  29. +3
    13 June 2019 14: 45
    How they joked twenty years ago:
    Moscow-style business: steal half, do the rest for something.
    Business in St. Petersburg: steal everything and do nothing at all.

    So it’s still not so bad, since at least something is being built.
  30. +4
    13 June 2019 15: 18
    Why are there many personnel for the indicated volumes of purchases of military equipment? That the Su-57, that the "Armata", that the super-frigate "Gorshkov". A handful of specialists will successfully cope with the set scope of work.

    A handful can't handle it the number of specialists does not depend on the volume of production, worked out and gone into a series - it depends on the complexity of the task and organization. According to the last one, I’ll explain that if the designer is not responsible for errors in the working draft (and now no design bureau is responsible for errors in the design documentation), the factory must have at least a qualified specialist correcting the documentation / or composing a letter and explaining and confirming the design bureau their error / or Specialist from the operational group from KB at the factory.

    In general, the article cries out the soul, and not reasoning on the topic ...
    According to Vissarionovich's behest, "if you criticize - suggest, ..." My vision, what is needed:
    1. The doctrine (changing no more than once every 10 years) that requires MO from the fleet in terms of functions, their priority, and allocated costs.
    The doctrine seems to exist, but it does not exist.
    Conclusion: to develop the Doctrine as a guide and not as a document "in order to be"
    2. The Navy determines the types of ships and vessels and their number to ensure item 1 and their unification.
    This bunch of "smut" and even unsuccessful ones is the pure fault of the Navy (corruption in its various forms). There is nothing to blame on the industry (KB and Factories), they will always and must offer their options and fight for an order, both for our Defense Ministry and for foreigners.
    Conclusion: connecting organs to control tall faces in the Navy.
    3. The Navy in the person of the 1st Institute, etc. must develop quality TK on these ships and vessels.
    Sin by hack work, and constant additions during the construction process (naturally with a change in the project, procurement, terms and the entire bureaucracy of orders for the Moscow Region).
    Conclusion: the introduction of responsibility (not necessarily penalties, you can also reward) persons developing TK for the analysis of the project result. The beginning, and, preferably, the completion of design and development work on complex weapons systems before the issuance of TK for a project in the design bureau, i.e., prospective weapons systems for marine carriers should be created for the future of future projects, and the project has worked out products.
    4. Development of a high-quality project based on an informative and interconnected with RKD 3-D model.
    Third-party design bureaus are not responsible for the project, only for the timing of issuing the products of their vital activity, but for those. construction support (fixing your own project jambs) is a separate contract, with a price commensurate with the cost of the project. The 3D model is often done because it is "spelled out in the contract" simply for the availability of such, with missing systems and elements, simplification and coarseness, without information on elements, links and binding to documents of the RKD, etc. Those. the colossal potential provided by powerful 3D CAD systems (Aveva, Cadmatic, Catia, etc.) for working out high-quality documentation right away, without alterations, with all bills, export from the model of working drawings and diagrams, and working out the smallest changes in all project documents is everything is not used, and a lot of money is wasted for licenses of this very expensive software. Instead of working from a model, no one needs a model according to the drawings.
    Conclusion: the same "digitalization" in shipbuilding is for the most part work from the MODEL and a single database, with the production of sections in a clean size, linking routes and systems in the model, and not "in place", the formation, automatic creation of picking lists pr . and so on ...
    Reform the system of design licenses - design licenses must receive individually engineers confirmed the level of qualifications in the profile committee. Then the offices of "Horns and Hooves" that bought it will disappear, as well as the extinct design bureaus that have only a sign left and give the offices "horns and hooves" for subcontracting. Then the engineer will value his license and be responsible for the quality, and the plant will receive the Project and not a set of documents. And the contract will receive a design bureau, which shows how many and what engineers are working
    5. The creation of its industrial production of marine equipment, by direct copying of foreign samples, following the example of Chinese colleagues.
    Timing of equipment supplies, obtaining information on both for the project, physical impossibility of procurement due to sanctions, maintenance of the life cycle, etc.
    Conclusion: State support with concessional lending, protection against prosecution for copyright infringement, an open database on the website of the relevant ministry according to the list of relevant equipment range and quantity, as well as industry enterprises with specialization, to help draw up a business plan and establish cooperation between industry enterprises.
    6. Restructuring shipyards.
    Many, I apologize, are ballast people without control over the appropriateness of their activities.
    A bureaucracy with many necessary signatures of people who do not even understand what they are talking about.
    Builder posts should all be excluded from the system ruthlessly leave only the responsible supplier to close the UP / USH / UX certificates. - according to experience, the most useless people (even "woman's kingdoms" such as financiers, personnel officers, accounting, marketing, etc. give efficiency, because with a large number of them there are people who do the work of the department), all issues are resolved only by the master and the designer, the builder performs only the role will "transfer".
    Corruption schemes with overstatement by labor masters of basic and additional works.
    Conclusion: the maximum exception of all job elements between the issuance of a task / solution by an engineer - master / worker. Reducing the number of bosses and introducing a rigid hierarchy without parallel structures with duplicated functions. Electronic document management. A single database and a 3-D model provided by or associated with the Designer.
    1. -2
      13 June 2019 17: 46
      Another person from the past. Yes, you understand that NOW IT DOESN'T NEED.
      1. +2
        13 June 2019 21: 00
        The article is called "When Russia will have a strong fleet" with a description of specific problems, but, alas, without proposals for solutions, and I showed my vision of solutions on the topic.
        When the articles "Who needs a fleet" or "Whining time, for life is… but" come out, then, in my opinion, your comment will correspond to the topic.
  31. +1
    13 June 2019 15: 20
    After what Gorbachev and Yeltsin did, it will take many more years and funds to restore everything destroyed / lost. And the theft at the same "shock rate" as it is necessary, if not completely stop, then at least reduce to some relatively safe level ..
  32. -2
    13 June 2019 15: 40
    To demonstrate the St. Andrew’s flag in the entire water area of ​​the World Ocean, it is necessary to build the entire 1 (one) nuclear battleship “Admiral of the Fleet Oleg Kaptsov” which has no analogues in the history of naval fleets:

    Displacement - 100000 tons
    Dimensions - length 300 m, width 40 m, draft 12 m
    Armor protection - composite, equivalent to 2000 mm homogeneous steel
    Ice class - Arc9
    Stealth coating - homogenized carbon with ferromagnetic nanoparticles
    GSU - two nuclear reactors with a total capacity of 200 MW, four steam turbines
    Speed ​​- maximum 30 knots, cruising 20 knots
    Laser armament - hyper-emitter in infrared and X-ray
    Rocket armament - “Zircon”, “Caliber”, C-500 in universal mine launchers
    Artillery armament - 600 caliber mm howitzers with active-reactive homing missiles, 30-mm six-barreled automatic guns
    Torpedo armament - Fizik-M, "Flurry", T-5
    Mines - sea mines for various purposes
    Anti-submarine weapons - anti-torpedoes, RBU, depth charges
    Nuclear weapons - spear-class combat missiles, torpedoes, mines and depth bombs
    Aircraft armament - drone drone vertical takeoff, multi-purpose helicopters of executive class
    Underwater armament - robotic unskilled vehicles
    Amphibious weapons - high-speed hovercraft
    Radar armament - radar with AFAR centimeter range
    Hydroacoustic armament - GAK with under heel, towed and flexible antennas
    Crew - 5000 man, including crew, technical personnel, air force, marines battalion, combat swimmers, mixed-type song and dance ensemble
    The tactics of combat use - autonomous navigation under the escort of their own UAV and NPA with calling at the ports of the Americas, Europe, Asia and Africa.

    The commanders of battleship for long service on VO - fleet admirals O. Kaptsov, A. Chelyabinsky, M. Klimov, A. Timokhin laughing
    1. +2
      13 June 2019 21: 09
      I don’t know why, but laughed out loud
    2. -1
      14 June 2019 03: 10
      Yes, my friend you ate Nashensky small-town strateguses, so you have !!! With pleasure, plus!
  33. +2
    13 June 2019 16: 13
    your positive at the end didn’t improve the picture (- so we’ll be real soon to lose the fleet. how many more destroyers and Navy crews will serve? although 3-4 of them are already on the go
    1. -3
      13 June 2019 21: 09
      Destroyers in the scrap. Extremely unsuccessful project. BOD another 15-20 years
  34. -4
    13 June 2019 16: 23
    Incredible construction time. Lack of production units. In the fleet there are different types of ships and weapons against the background of irresponsible promises about the most incredible, fantastic weapons.
    The uniformity of ships is a trap, this is the death of a scientific school. Therefore, there will always be a significant variety of combat units, as scientific thought must be developed. Or she will not. And they will release Arly Burke and 40, and 50 years, because With the Gadgets, everything went wrong. And why? And therefore ...
    1. +3
      13 June 2019 17: 49
      The uniformity of ships is a trap, this is the death of a scientific school.

      You confuse cause and effect. Turn over your offer and everything will immediately fall into place.
    2. +2
      13 June 2019 20: 50
      The uniformity of ships is a trap, this is the death of a scientific school.

      What prevents the development of a scientific school without the construction of experimental freaks, especially with modern modeling capabilities?
      While the Kalashnikov assault rifle, PM and SVD were in service, nothing prevented the development of the small arms school, during this time a lot of good samples were not accepted weapons in view of the slight advantage compared to the old system at the level of replacement costs, but growth continued. And as soon as the gap in characteristics reaches the threshold, they change. How much the T-72 and its modernization of the T-90 are in service - this did not prevent the development of the school and the presentation of studies of new models.
      Just do not say that there are prototypes in the metal, the ship is not an automatic machine and not a tank.
      The question of the survival of the school is not in the construction of experienced freaks, but in the orders for projects, and these are completely different costs and consequences. And to support the trousers, any design bureau dealing with ships can easily, if there are normal specialists (and not crickets on poles, all his life he does a drawing of only one system, and he knows nothing else around and everything is given to him on a silver platter) make projects for a citizen. And military projects should be done according to the Ministry of Defense tenders with competitive projects from other design bureaus and a detailed analysis of the level of "progress of design schools"
      And then, as in an old joke, where a Jew went to the Rebbe, whose chickens were dead, and he kept inventing what patterns to sprinkle the chickens with, until all the chickens eventually died, “what a pity, but I had so many ideas! "
      1. 0
        28 June 2019 14: 43
        You see, VAZ 2101 Zhiguli began to be produced, and the car turned out so successful that it could be produced for 30 and 40 years ... The trouble came later, when it turned out that its school of automotive engineering had not been created, i.e. she died...
        Therefore, no one disputes that a war is best met with advanced and proven military equipment, which is mass-produced ...
        But no one knows what kind of technology will be the same, advanced, in a new war ... Therefore, it makes no sense to produce thousands of T-72s that are morally obsolete in a future war.
        And here you need to look for a compromise. You need to constantly improve the models of weapons in order to be at the forefront. We need to train design schools! And it is necessary to produce a limited series of these weapons, so as not to be "without trousers" during the threatened period. So that the number of samples can withstand the number of samples of likely partners.
  35. ABM
    0
    13 June 2019 17: 59
    impossible to compete with the whole world! you need to choose priorities. In my opinion, having four balanced fleets for Russia is an exorbitant load!
    1. +1
      15 June 2019 04: 12
      I agree. Available "technical toys" must match the capabilities of the economy.
  36. 0
    13 June 2019 20: 28
    Perhaps the privatization of a number of military enterprises would help. When restoring the legal, judicial system, of course. It is obvious that the government official has little interest in development, it is enough to report / have a break. There are positive examples of other countries.
    1. -2
      14 June 2019 03: 05
      Rather, on the contrary, the complete nationalization of strategic and defense industries, with the strictest military acceptance and control ... the truth is, the reality is that relying on disinterested and loyal "overseers" is most likely useless.
      1. 0
        15 June 2019 03: 11
        I made a proposal based on reality. It works well in a number of countries ...
        The "overseers" are in no way dependent on you and me, therefore, they will act only in their own interests.
  37. +2
    13 June 2019 21: 58
    When Russia will have a strong fleet

    From what I see around, I read on the Internet - most likely never.
    With the current form of economic management (that is, under capitalism), what is now in the fleet is the maximum. What is being built is the peak of our current (for the next fifty - one hundred years) opportunities. Then it will only get worse - they will finally write off the Soviet-built ships. The construction speed of new warships, as well as their combat capabilities, will steadily decline. This is all because the current Russian economy will not be able to handle a "strong fleet". We cannot afford this today.
    Corruption and nepotism only exacerbate the situation.
    I really want to make a mistake, but so far I don’t see how I can do it.
  38. -2
    14 June 2019 03: 03
    "A continental country does not need a fleet and there is no need to have many ships. The thesis is good, correct, but initially contains a mistake." - The thing is that catching up and overtaking is simply not affordable, and the ratio of 60:01 or 60:02 will practically not change anything. Therefore, the leadership of the Russian Federation is looking not for the traditional answers like "We will build a Big Fleet in the five-year plan!", But for balanced and asymmetric ones. When building a Fleet, one must first of all proceed from what geopolitical and strategic tasks it is desirable to solve with this tool and what are the possibilities of basing such a Fleet in the ocean, and, most importantly, what funds are available in the budget for solving these tasks. Everything is simple - no money - no Fleet.
  39. +1
    14 June 2019 03: 43
    Great article - everything is clear and on the shelves.

    The author smashed the miserable propagandists and servants of bots to them, who in unison insist that Russia is a continental country.
    Is the USA or China island?
  40. 0
    14 June 2019 03: 51
    Quote: LeonidL
    the RF leadership is looking for answers not for the traditional type "We will build a Big Fleet in the five-year plan!", but for balanced and asymmetric


    You yourself are not funny - asymmetric answers.

    Such answers look like a clap on the female genitals (excuse me for detail) for hitting the face with your fist.

    Such is the asymmetry.
    1. 0
      14 June 2019 20: 25
      Vaash is an opponent-specific person, you can never explain ANYTHING to him.
  41. -1
    14 June 2019 05: 18
    A strong fleet is definitely needed.
  42. +2
    14 June 2019 07: 03
    There will be no fleet. They will cut money from small to large for the construction of the fleet, especially at the R&D stage. A couple of dozen more billionaires appear on the Forbes list, of these very "builders". And the fleet will end. And we ordinary people will only quietly resent from year to year what bad leaders we have in our country, etc. etc. Nothing will NEVER change in Russia. As they stole, they will. And since in the country everyone is already 30 years old, as on the drum, the grown-up generation will spit 10 times more
  43. -1
    14 June 2019 08: 37
    Oleg Kaptsov wrote quite rightly, and all because there is no responsibility for decisions, Under Stalin, for the collapse of work and even more so for cutting, theft would have been brought to justice immediately, There will be a need for a fleet, on surface ships it is still redundant, though due to the ships that all Equally, they no longer go to sea and do not go out. RTOs after exiting dovs will not be needed either. It is sufficient to have several frigates of three to five on the ocean, and on the Black Sea Fleet the three. That’s where the real failure is, the submarines and minesweepers, the MPC, are obviously not enough, and the construction of submarines is behind the needs of the fleet and they are also written off .... it is necessary to reorient shipyards for submarines and minesweepers. You can minus the truth, those who are afraid of pitching and consider the ship not as a combat unit, but as a convenient career step,
  44. 5-9
    +1
    14 June 2019 10: 55
    Before starting the Khachuuflot bagpipe again, suggest what to refuse, because the resources are not rubber. What do you deign to refuse:
    From air defense, air defense or air force?
    Well, at the same time, justify why we need a fleet, but do not need what you want to refuse.

    Well, at the same time, explain how our autotopes (if they set up a bunch of ships so that they have something to flood) will break the centuries-old traditions of the Russian fleet (except for a few episodes against the Turks) and the 150-year-old continuous tradition of prosracing everything and complete uselessness (taking into account the cost / effectiveness criterion ) and they can really portray something in a real war. The remaining branches and types of troops have shown their legal capacity since Soviet times. The fleet is not.
  45. +3
    14 June 2019 11: 48
    Quote: vladimir1155
    Under Stalin, for the collapse of work and even more so cut, theft would immediately be held accountable.


    Well, then under Stalin.

    The President once said about the tough measures: "This is not 1937".

    It would not have happened that with his connivance the year 1991 will come. In essence, that is.
  46. +1
    14 June 2019 11: 58
    Quote: 5-9
    What you please refuse:
    From air defense, air defense or air force


    Stupidity to speak, please.

    For such a large country as Russia, EVERYTHING is needed -

    and what you listed, and the fleet as well.

    So after all, Russia has a fleet - as many as four.

    The problem is that they exist and remain on the SOVIET

    backlog. But the RUSSIAN hurt all somehow does not start -

    even what was developed as projects in the USSR, in the Russian Federation

    all will not bother to finish building normally (without shifting the deadlines

    right), and put into operation.

    And what can we say about new developments - the landing ship,

    an aircraft carrier, a battleship - all this is mumbled on paper, hunkered on the lips,

    PR with mock-ups, shaking the air, and things are still there.

    And probably for so many years (2000-2019) even THREE ships of the first rank

    Already it would be necessary (blood from the nose) to put into operation.


    The absence of one such ship is the best indicator of the competence of the authorities.
    1. 5-9
      0
      14 June 2019 12: 05
      What is needed is for God's sake who argues. Fly to Mars, every Russian on a Mercedes (of course Russian assembly) - also needed! And so that 3 children in the family and 100 m2 per nose.
      The fleet’s problem is further aggravated by the fact that those enterprises of the military-industrial complex that produce products that really affect defense are maintained and then tightened.
      Based on the situation "Along Senka and Cap", we have nothing but SSBNs and the forces guarding their deployment area - according to the Hamburg score, we do not need anything beyond what is already (still) and sluggishly built. ICBMs, tanks, aircraft, air defense systems are needed more than ships.
  47. 0
    14 June 2019 12: 01
    In fact, we are indeed a continental power, or rather a transcontinental one. The only one on the planet. We do not need to globally control the sea trade routes - the veins of the world economy. Our routes of communication are reliably covered by the territory of the country. For this, the Transsib and BAM were built, now the Northern Sea Route. Why do we need a huge and monstrously expensive fleet? The main task of our fleet is to cover SSBNs for a few minutes so that they can shoot back. In peacetime - local control of minor geopolitical outcomes and display of the flag. In accordance with the document "Fundamentals of the state policy of the Russian Federation in the field of naval activities for the period up to 2030", the Russian Navy has the task of PRESERVING the honorable second place. Any different ratings for the number of tonnage and aircraft carriers are empty. The main thing is this: "Igor Sutyagin, currently a researcher at the Royal Joint Institute for Defense Research (RUSI), estimates the number of NSNWs in the Navy at 330 warheads (by carriers - more than 56% on submarines, by designation - 50% are intended for ASW missions). He estimates Russia at 860-1040 warheads.At the same time, an authoritative review by Hans Christensen and Robert Norris cites a double figure - 760 NSNW warheads for the Navy, with a total of 1950 NSNW warheads in Russia. the largest number of NSNW ". The nuclear submarine is the backbone of the Russian Navy, it allows us to control the World Ocean (at all depth ranges) where we need it. The presence of the most powerful icebreaker fleet in the world allows us to control the Arctic throughout its entire length. Where we need it. As the ancients said - give me what I need and I will do without too much. And don't confuse Russia and China. China is forced to build a large fleet, it does not yet have SAFE transcontinental routes of communication.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        14 June 2019 12: 55
        You, as a classic general, are preparing for the past war. Read the official document indicated by me, do not be lazy. And corruption in the USA is as much higher than corruption in the Russian Federation in its volumes, as is our military budget. Sawing the budget famously everywhere. One Zwolvt is worth it. And what about the latest U.S. aircraft carrier that can't take an air wing? The latest English aircraft carrier flows like a hole in a bucket ... The actions of all world leaders are dictated by the laws of Geopolitics, I mean it. At the present stage, we can do without an arms race and do it competently. But in general, just as Carthage must be destroyed, so the loot will defeat evil.
  48. 0
    14 June 2019 12: 20
    When will Russians become world soccer champions? When the Brazilians will become world hockey champions.
  49. 0
    14 June 2019 12: 35
    Quote: jhltyjyjctw
    Why do we need a huge and monstrously expensive fleet? The main task of our fleet is to cover the SSBNs for a few minutes so that they shoot


    How dashing it all turns out -

    The USA created a powerful fleet, the USSR also created

    at the time of the mid-1980s, a considerable fleet, China

    also creates a powerful fleet, Turkey also has a sickly fleet.

    So there were fools everywhere - they spent money no matter what.

    If only they could build air defense systems, and live on

    happily ever after.

    The Italians build ships, the French, the British.

    All fools.

    And for a country with the largest territory, a handful of boats is enough

    to cover the SSBN.

    No, the point is different. It's just that the "alternative center of power" turned out to be so

    exaggerated that apart from the odious oligarchs and infernal corruption

    is not different. But admit it in public - no, no.

    1. 0
      14 June 2019 14: 17
      USA, Britain, Japan, China - powers with a huge coastline and access to the open ocean, Turkey has straits. And in our apartment there is gas.
      1. 0
        14 June 2019 18: 50
        Only now they are a little "afraid" about strengthening the Japanese fleet against the background of their decrepitude in that region.

        But nothing, there is "Yarsy" - "Poplar", how we bang, how we burn.

        In general, everyone was scared. All sleep.
  50. 0
    14 June 2019 17: 51
    There is a good saying - stretch your legs for clothes! And from whom what to protect? The main branches of Russian industry are already under the control of Western companies. Starting from aluminum. so they don’t need to fight.
  51. 0
    14 June 2019 18: 48
    Quote: iouris
    And in our apartment there is gas


    Yes, what is there? And more oil. They are persecuted for green papers. Where can we build some aircraft carriers?
  52. +2
    14 June 2019 20: 15
    “If the key figures in the state and the military-industrial complex really decide...” - These “key figures” are now busy with something completely different - the transit of Putin’s power has begun and they are frantically building reserve airfields for themselves. But they don’t care about the country and they don’t connect their future or the future of their children with it.
  53. -1
    15 June 2019 18: 45
    I read it with interest and pleasure (from the quality of the comments and article)
    I thought about the deep meaning - Russia is great, and problems with distance began in the Middle Ages (with the advent of such distances in the country) and continue.
    In Russia, open spaces rule everything. And they are impregnable. And for the residents themselves. In general, the problem is precisely that all theaters are remote from each other. Replacing one with another is fraught (there was a successful case - Chesma, there was Tsushima, and there was 1941...)
    And this will not change (except perhaps teleportation). Being strong at different points is impossible and expensive.
    The way out here is not only in the people themselves and the work...
  54. +1
    17 June 2019 09: 49
    I think that the constant “beating” of our Russian Navy rearmament program has become a trend and has no rational link. Initially, the command’s approach was not correct. It was necessary to modernize the existing ones and develop promising ones. And everything went wrong for us. And they didn’t really take up modernization. Although potentially from the first ranks it was possible to upgrade 8 - 1155, 1 - 1155.1, 3 - 1164, 3 -1144, 1 - 1143.5, which would amount to 9 destroyers, 3 cruisers, 3 nuclear cruisers, 1 aircraft-carrying cruiser, and this is not counting the landing ones ships (I’m not considering submarine forces now). I don’t take buzzards out of dislike, it’s just too expensive to modernize and maintain so many different projects. Plus, the Sarychs have a real problem with their boilers, and the BODs have proven themselves to be reliable workhorses. This would be a completely combat-ready fleet that could be used for many years to come. In the meantime.... we could experiment with polyment redoubt and other know-how. Our entire rearmament has been staked on the construction of promising frigates, and in the future, nuclear destroyers. The first of them, the long-suffering Gorshkov, was finalized only in 2018. And it's okay. Great news. You can put it into series. There’s just not much modernization for the old guys. You can forget about the construction of Leaders for years, but the ocean zone must be closed! So Supergorshkov was born. And so in all components: strike NK, underwater and landing. But now everything should level out. There is already a concept for a frigate of the 1st rank (And most importantly, there is its saturation!!! Turbines and diesel for Supergorshkov will be the same as for just Gorshkov, only in larger quantities; weapons too, but more launchers). Here comes the destroyer. If only they would build a series.
  55. +1
    17 June 2019 12: 06
    Key figures in the state and the military-industrial complex are licking everything and every itchy spot among the US and NATO members so much that no good can be expected. Are you crazy: they can’t dramatically increase their fleet of yachts! Slaves, you can’t be like that!!!
  56. -1
    18 June 2019 19: 56
    I agree with the author. We've had enough of stinking commerce and "effective managers". The Unified State Examination generation is at the helm, with empty brains. And thirst for profit.
  57. 0
    21 June 2019 08: 22
    In our country, we need to nationalize all large enterprises, mining and processing of minerals. Then at least some sense will appear. It’s up to the state to decide whether it’s profitable or not to produce, to monitor deadlines. It’s not up to a handful of aligarchs to decide what the country should do. I’m not saying to remove private business. Let small enterprises remain. There is no need for examples of military actions. Take at least man-made or natural disasters on a global scale. What a private trader says, it’s not profitable for me, it’s expensive. Remember the global earthquakes in Armenia, the Chernobyl accident. The whole country was involved in eliminating the consequences. There is no need to cite the United States as an example. They have a different policy and tax system. These are the consequences of the privatization of strategic enterprises that we are dealing with. Just look at how many fields are empty. And then we buy everything from China. The Bolsheviks were not fools when they created collective farms. The village must feed city! There are no collective farms, no orders for agricultural machinery. We buy tractors abroad. We broke the entire chain of cooperation. Shame, we buy engines for airplanes abroad. Look who owns the seaports. Foreign citizens. Talk about the military fleet, but what about the civilian fleet. The last ships were sold abroad. Until the government and the president take control of the oligarchy with their enterprises, there will be no sense. Look, you can’t cut down a tree, you can’t sell the harvest harvested on your own land. And here private companies sell oil, gas, diamonds, etc. abroad. The government has no control over its own resources and their processing. And we need to start with education, from primary school. Abolish the EG, paid study. Soon there will be no one to work, there will be no specialists. Look how many professors the country lost during the creation of FEFU. It’s a shame, the whole world is laughing. There were sarcastic comments from Americans when they visited it. The state cannot control enterprises and the timing of the construction of anything. And you’re talking about the timing of the construction of ships. A private owner will do so as profitably as possible. He can even steal defense order money and nothing will happen.
  58. 0
    22 June 2019 13: 25
    Quote: jhltyjyjctw
    And corruption in the United States is as much greater in volume than corruption in the Russian Federation as their military budget is ours.

    Nobody argues. One "BUT". Their official saves in dollars, stores them there and spends them there. Nothing is leaving the country. Our official writes in rubles, converts everything into dollars and takes it to them. Thus covering the notorious American debt. There he has a business, real estate and an American bank account.