Weapons of the Second World. Large-caliber aviation machine guns

51

What machine gun was the best in your opinion?

1. Breda-SAFAT, Italy - 0 (0%)
0%
2. Ho-103 (101,102,104), Japan - 2 (1%)
1%
3. Type 3 Fleet, Japan - 2 (1%)
1%
4. MG-131, Germany - 21 (10.5%)
10.5%
5. Hotchkiss Mle 1930, France - 1 (0.5%)
0.5%
6. UB, USSR - 103 (51.5%)
51.5%
7. "Browning" 0.50 AN / M2, USA. - 71 (35.5%)
35.5%
To begin with, let's say that the best machine gun rifle caliber in the opinion of our readers was ShKAS.





This is an expected decision and quite understandable. Although, of course, the machine gun was rather average in essence, and not very reliable. However, that is, that is: it was very progressive weapon.

But today we will start talking about serious weapons. On machine guns of large calibers. About those who were in the teeth to even crush an armored car.

In general, it is difficult to draw a clear line in terms of caliber. Well, the 12,7-mm is a machine gun. 20-mm is a gun. What about 15 mm? Where does the German creation MG.151 go?

The gun can shoot projectiles, that is, carrying the fuse and explosive charge. But sorry, Breda-SAFAT 12,7-mm is quite normal to shoot exactly 12,7-mm projectiles, each of which contained almost a gram of explosives!

Complicated.

But nevertheless, let's go to the table, on which lies a huge pile of these awesome structures. There are already more participants, and there is also something to talk about.

The heavy machine gun was the first to be assembled and used by the Germans. And even in the First World War. It was an anti-tank machine gun MG 18 TuF - Tank und Flieger Maschinengewehr. If you translate it thoughtfully: a machine gun for (well, it’s clear that it’s against) tank and aircraft, that is, anti-tank and anti-aircraft machine gun.

It was a conventional MG 08, but beefy under the chuck 13,25 × 92 mm. 50-gram cucumber confidently break through the distance to 800 m 22 millimeter of the then armor.

Weapons of the Second World. Large-caliber aviation machine guns


But 50 units of all of them were released, Germany lost the war, and they forgot about the machine gun. Until a certain time.

But then came the moment when rifle bullets funfully drummed on the armored carcasses of 40's aircraft, causing cackles on the one hand and righteous anger on the other. In Pokryshkin's well-written, he tried to pick U-88 with ShKAS ...

The designers realized that they need to change something. And so it began ...

1. Breda-SAFAT, Italy


In the past, we briefly talked about the 7,7-mm machine gun of this bikaliber family. Criticizing. So, that machine gun was GOOD! We will not say the same about its large-caliber fellow.



If the 7,7-mm rifle cartridge for muzzle energy was not very different from any other classmates, then the choice of ammunition by the Italians would perplex anyone, not that non-experts.

British cartridge 0.50 from "Vickers". Very weak cartridge. I can even say the weakest in the world. Why Mussolini, who was in charge of armaments, rejected Hochiss's heavier French patron, we can only guess. But the French patron was one and a half times heavier and had more acceptable characteristics. Perhaps this is the case in the eternal Franco-Italian confrontation.

The only plus in the Breda machine gun was the presence of explosive cartridges prohibited by an international treaty, whose 37-gram shells contained 0,8 grams of pentrite.

By the way, in some sources the “Breda-SAFAT” 12,7-mm machine guns are presented almost like a copy of Browning. It is difficult to say why people are doing this, but the fact is that although in the guise of machine guns there are some common features, the Brad machine gun was very, very far from the creation of Browning.

Breda-SAFAT was inferior to Browning in absolutely all characteristics. The Italian cartridge 12,7x81SR is expectedly less powerful than the American 12,7x99. And this entailed a decrease in the muzzle energy, the sighting range, and even the Italian machine gun was not very quick-fire. And in the synchronous execution, the machine gun fire rate dropped from 700 to 450-550 rounds per minute, which was no good at all.



But since there were no other machine guns (Scotty's product does not count), the “Breda-SAFAT” was put on everything that took off under the Italian sign. With the expected unintelligible outcome.

Advantages: reliable.

Disadvantages: rate of fire, frankly weak cartridge with low ballistics.

2. Ho-103 (101,102,104). Japan


With heavy machine guns for Japanese aircraft generally occurred historical joke. The Japanese Air Force, having entered the war in China, immediately thought about the fact that weapons should be strengthened. And since everything was very bad in terms of development on their own in Japan in those years, the imperial military bowed to the allies.



The Japanese would like to purchase a license for the latest German machine gun MG.131, but received a complete refusal. The Germans did not dare to take such a step, being somewhat confused. First, Germany in 1939-40 had complete love and understanding with the USSR. The necessary strategic materials flowed from the Soviet Union.

At the same time, the USSR gave Japan a cold shower on Hassan and Khalkhin Gol. And Japan was not so cool supplier. Therefore, in the end, pragmatic Germans decided not to quarrel with Stalin ahead of time, selling some kind of machine gun to the Japanese.

As a result, the Japanese Air Force was left without a large-caliber machine gun at all, and this problem could be solved only by 1941. But how ... In China, a pretty decent amount of American Browning M1921 machine guns was tattered.

The Japanese in the best traditions just copied a machine gun (not the worst, yes), without bothering about the license at all. But in order not to quarrel with the United States finally and irrevocably, the machine gun was sharpened under ... the Italian cartridge 12,7х81SR!

The one with a burst chuck.

As a result, in 1941, adopted by the Japanese army (emphasize) aviation the excellent large-caliber machine gun No-103 was adopted, which fully satisfied the needs of the air force, both in offensive and defensive weapons.

The machine gun turned out lightweight, compact, reliable and rapid-fire (in the wing or turret version). There were disadvantages. Like all Browning machine guns, he barely succumbed to synchronization, sagging in rate of fire. Plus a weaker Italian cartridge.

But the main disadvantage was that the machine gun synchronized with the motor on certain engine operating modes reduced the rate of fire from the declared 900 rpm to 400! But over time, having rebelled, the pilots of the Nakajima Ki-43 fighters (which the No-103 first went to) took advantage of the engine modes that did not lower the rate of fire.

Practically all Japanese military fighter jets were armed with several of these machine guns, both in synchronous and in wing versions. But the Japanese gunsmiths could not defeat the fall in the rate of fire.

Advantages: reliability.

Disadvantages: low rate of fire in the synchronous version.

3. Type 3 fleet. Japan


Probably, it is surprising to see another Japanese machine gun, but alas, that’s how they had fun. The army is in itself, naval aviation is itself a queen.



We are returning to China again, where, having fought in 1939, those who fought, that is, naval aviation, became thoughtful. Generally, at naval pilots' problems drew up earlier than anyone else. The A6M, the main fighter, seemed to be good, but the two Type 92 machine guns, which were essentially a reworking of the very ancient Lewis, were downright depressing.

And for deck dive bombers and torpedo bombers, the only “Type 92” on the turret in general could be considered a purely psychological weapon.

And there were also claims to the gun, but this is not about them. Here, in 1940, the Japanese naval commanders began to think about a large-caliber machine gun for their pilots as a variant of intermediate weapons.

Then the Japanese turned again to the allies, that is, to Germany. And here begins the continuation of the anecdote with MG.131. Yes. Land forces were refused. And the sea - no !!!

Representatives of the naval aviation appealed to the Germans with a request for a machine gun at the very beginning of 1941, when in Germany everything was already set in places, and the war with the USSR was a matter of resolution. And formal reasons for refusal simply did not exist.

And by the end of 1941, not only documentation was supplied to Japan, but also the necessary equipment for the production of machine guns.

The Japanese military were, on the one hand, in complete ecstasy, on the other - it would be worth thinking about. THREE large-caliber machine guns of different systems with THREE types of cartridges - is that, you know ...

But nevertheless, the machine gun "Type 2" played a role in improving the defense capability of Japanese naval aviation, and a significant role. But it was a prelude to the main theme, the machine gun "Type 3". However, I already wrote about this.

However, the Japanese invented the FOURTH machine gun!

They became "Type 3". This time the Browning AN / М2, already mentioned by us, was copied, but under the French patron of Hotchiss 13,2x99 mm!



The only more or less distinct explanation is that the Japanese wanted a more powerful weapon. The bullet of the 13,2X99 cartridge mm was pretty heavier than the German 13-mm bullet.

The machine-gun impromptu turned out to be a success, the aircraft of the Japanese Air Force of the ground forces were armed with “Browning” with an Italian patron, and the naval Air Force with “French Browning” with the French.

Advantages: reliability, powerful cartridge.

Disadvantages: weight, low rate of fire.

4. MG-131. Germany


In 1938, the Rhine Metall presented the MG.131 heavy machine gun. Caliber 13-mm, model 1, so in accordance with the accepted system of notation.



The machine gun was supposed to replace MG.15 and MG.17, and, in all respects, in the turret, wing and synchronous versions. But the development of a little nodged, and the machine gun was adopted only in the 1941 year.

The machine gun immediately interested the allies of Germany, because it had many positive features in the design. MG.131 turned out to be a very compact and light weapon, in fact, it could be compared in weight with rifle caliber machine guns. Small sizes again allowed to install it without problems anywhere. The machine gun had an electropneumatic recharge and electric descent.



It is clear that for these things had to pay. The weakest point of the machine gun was ... cartridge! 13x64B was frankly weak. Light bullet with honestly say, not the most successful form, could not provide decent ballistics. Not very impressive and the initial speed of the bullet.

All this made the machine gun is not a very dangerous weapon. If we compare it with our Berezin or American Browning, they worked quite normally at distances up to 600 meters, while the German after 300 meters was practically useless because the bullet lost energy more than 7 times the shooting was just pointless.

However, reliability and rate of fire compensated for the shortcomings, as they could, and until the end of the war MG.131 carried out service as the main medium-caliber aviation weapons, being installed on all German aircraft from the 1942 of the year.



Despite the shortcomings voiced, MG.131 turned out to be quite an effective weapon and was popular. Moreover, in the ground forces they gladly used this machine gun, replacing the electric trigger with the usual firing mechanism.

Advantages: weight, reliability, rate of fire.

Disadvantages: disgusting ballistics weak cartridge.

5. Hotchkiss Mle.1930. France


Not to mention the French. In the end, it was precisely the Hochkiss machine gun that first flew into the sky as an aviation fixed-mounted machine gun. And this happened on February 11 1914.



In general, the light and compact "Gochkiss" were put on airplanes by all who had access to them. And those who did not have machine guns, tried to get and make copies.

In the middle of the 30-s in France, they also came to the conclusion about the need for large-caliber machine guns. “Hotchiss” was quite suitable as a weapon that could be installed, for example, in the collapse of the cylinder of the Hispano-Suiz engines for firing through a screw bush. The guns, as it were, have not yet figured out normal.

In 1937, the machine gun turned out. Immediately in all guises, turret, wing, it was possible to install in the camber of the cylinders. The only serious improvement was the increase in the rate of fire from clearly insufficient 450 rpm to quite a normal 600. And the pneumatic reloading mechanism, quite original.

The cartridges came from a container connected to the receiver of cartridges by a flexible feeder. Roughly speaking, the cartridges under the action of the air entered the machine gun ... self-filling, as in mitralia. But everything was very simple and did not require complex feeding systems.

The only thing that hampered the introduction of a machine gun in the French aircraft, was the lack of funding and some complacency. The machine gun appeared in the 1930 year, as it follows from its labeling, but it was not released in sufficient quantities before the start of normal hostilities in the 1940 year.

And this is despite all that the fleet and the army very calmly used the Hochissss XM machine gun as anti-aircraft and light armored vehicles.

The result was an interesting situation, reminiscent of a modern country. In huge quantities, the Hochkiss machine guns and their ammunition were sold abroad. Among the importing countries were Italy (!!!), Spain, Greece, Belgium, Poland, China, Brazil, Chile. In Japan, Hotchkiss machine guns from 1933 were produced under license as "Type 93", being the main infantry machine gun of the Japanese army and navy during the 2 World War II. 13,2-mm cartridges are also massively manufactured in Japan under license.

And Japan was the only country except France, which began to use the French 13,2-mm cartridge in aviation.

After the occupation of France, the Germans used the captured Hotchkiss Mle 1930 machine guns in the Wehrmacht units, designated MG 271 (f) or in the air defense system as "1,32 cm Flak 271 (f)", quite normally.

There are reports of Germans who tested the French machine gun in Germany in 1941. Armor-piercing cartridge 1.32 cm Pzgr 821 (e) at an angle of meeting 30 degrees at a distance of respectively 100, 300 and 500 meters punched a plate of hardened homogeneous armor, respectively, 12, 10 and 8 mm thick. At an encounter angle of 0 degrees, the thickness of the armor increased to 22,5, 18 and 14, respectively.

Fighters "Pote-631", which are armed with these machine guns (reliably) were very good. It is a pity that not for long.

Advantages: powerful cartridge with good ballistics.

Disadvantages: rate of fire and the weight of the machine gun.

6. UB - Universal Berezin. the USSR


One can argue for a very long time about who will take the first place in our rating. The Berezin machine gun does not just have all the chances, but with arguments it can be called the best in class. Not without nuances, of course.



In general, the machine gun was younger than many classmates. BS (Synchronous Berezin) was adopted by 13 April 1939. And, boldly emphasize, the machine gun did not HAVE an infantry / land analogue. That is, it was created as a large-caliber aviation machine gun.

The designer of the machine gun, Mikhail Evgenievich Berezin, really created one of the weapon masterpieces that we can be justly proud of. And considering that the machine gun was the first work of a young designer at that time, it remains only to express the deepest regret that Mikhail Evgenievich lived so little.

Like a BS machine gun was just gorgeous. Good durability and reliability of automatics are noted. The advantage was the excellent rate of fire for 1000 rds / min for a large-caliber machine gun, which, we note, fell to 700-800 rds / min when working with a synchronizer.

Foreign analogues often with 800 rds / min just started a conversation.

And the important moment was the cartridge 12,7х108 mm. Very powerful and with very good ballistics. Add to this the rate of fire and we obtain at the output that, by the mass of the volley, the Berezin machine gun exceeded many 20-mm air guns of that time.

UB is Universal Berezina, although it can be called improved. The machine gun was immediately created in three different versions, which varied depending on the installation location: synchronous - UBS, wing - UBC, and turret - UBT. At the same time, the basic mechanisms and details of all three machine guns were kept identical, with the exception of the firing mechanism, which introduced some changes related to the specifics of the use of this weapon. In UBK and UBS, the outdated cable reloading mechanical scheme was replaced by a pneumatic one, for which purpose a pneumatic cylinder was placed above the venting tube.

It was the first Soviet aviation machine gun in which the pneumatic reloading system was implemented, greatly facilitating the life of the pilot and the operation of the machine gun in combat conditions. In total, over 150 thousands of these machine guns were produced.

It is clear that the UB was the only Soviet heavy machine gun in aviation. It was installed on almost all aircraft of the Red Army Air Force, the question was only in quantity. Maximum - 3 put on the MiG-3, fighters Yakovlev had 1-2 machine guns.



Naturally, UB turrets formed the basis of defensive weapons on Il-4, Tu-2, Ep-2, Ap-2, Pe-2, Il-2 bombers. UBK replaced the standard weapons "Boston" and "Hurricane".



If you compare the UB with the classic Browning machine gun AN / M2, which formed the basis of the weapons of Allied aviation, it is worth saying that the American was inferior, surpassing only in advertising. Moreover, it was inferior in almost everything: at the rate of firing at 24%, in kinetic energy at the muzzle cut at 15%, at the mass of a second salvo almost one and a half times. And Browning was heavier on 8 kg. The only parameter where the American was stronger is the initial speed of the bullet. But this 1% can not be considered such an advantage, if in our opinion.

Yes, and with the other colleagues in the shop is not easy to compare. More precisely, if we take MG-131, "Breda-SAFAT", then the superiority of the Soviet machine gun can be described as overwhelming.

The only machine gun that could somehow catch up with the UB was the Japanese "Type 3", that is, the American "Browning", sharpened under the heavier French cartridge 13,2-mm.



Advantages: a good layout and a simple device mechanism, simple loading and unloading, high rate of fire.

Disadvantages: cable reloading in turret versions, small unification of parts.

It was strictly forbidden to all manuals while simultaneously disassembling several machine guns to mix their parts.

7. Browning 0.50 AN / M2. USA


Unlike the army heavy machine guns that appeared in the early 20-s, the Americans were busy with the aviation over 10 years. And as a result, the 12,7-mm machine gun appeared in the 1932 year.



But in the end, a single machine gun was developed for the army, aviation and navy. Moreover, a very innovative, as they say. Innovation consisted in the appearance of a universal tape receiver, which worked both on the left and on the right side, with a single working mechanism, and an easily-interchangeable barrel. Also, the aircraft version of the machine gun received a lightweight barrel.

By the end of 30's, the .50 Browning AN / M2 machine gun became the main component of US aircraft weapons, displacing the 7,62-mm version.

The war confirmed the fairly high fighting qualities of the machine gun. American fighters armed with Browning fought everywhere, from North Africa to the islands in the Pacific. Well, what a difficult opponent for the Germans were building "fortresses", bristling with all the same "Browning", can not be said.

Browning aircraft machine guns proved to be unpretentious, reliable, convenient, combining sufficient power of ammunition and density of fire products.

Americans consider their ".50 Browning AN / M2" the best small arms, rising to the sky of that war. And one of the proofs was the fact that the machine gun was copied with pleasure by both allies and opponents.



The British generally spat on the development of their weapons systems and began to arm themselves with Browning.

In general, the machine gun was good, but in fact - the golden mean. Among the majority of world samples, he looked quite ordinary, standing out, perhaps, with excellent ballistics.

There were also nuances of the type of too rigid cartridge tape from all-metal links. Excessive rigidity led to distortions of cartridges in the receiver and jamming of the entire system at large angles of the tape. In the early models of the P-40 and P-51, we had to completely redesign the design of the wing batteries, rearranging the machine guns vertically without breaking the ribbon.

Performance characteristics of rating participants:



Sources:
Yevgeny Aranov. Browning aircraft machine guns.
Yevgeny Aranov. Aircraft weapons of the Red Army Air Force.
Yevgeny Aranov. Aircraft weapons of France.
51 comment
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  1. +9
    24 May 2019 18: 30
    We are patriots! Choosing a BS of course!
    1. +1
      25 May 2019 19: 12
      Yes, where does patriotism? For example, I chose Berezin because he is REALLY better than all the other competitors.
      1. 0
        14 July 2019 21: 54
        Yes, all the specialists and patriots, but my grandfather was just a gunsmith on IL-2 and didn’t choose to fight and 3,14 ride — a big difference and I doubt that at least one of the commentators saw the machine gun but ...!
        1. 0
          14 July 2019 22: 15
          No matter how you want to cheat everyone, but many machine guns not only saw, but also worked with them. I served in the tank and dealt with the SGMT, KPVT and the guys from the intelligence provided the opportunity to seriously communicate with the RPD. I didn’t have to fight, but this is not my fault. Your grandfather - respect and respect, but our fathers did not sit out in the rear. And I doubt that a tantrum like you should take part in hostilities. Front-line workers as a rule do not insult people who cannot respond in the way that it is customary among men to respond to insults.
    2. 0
      26 May 2019 10: 23
      And the device is in short supply which allowed the shooter to pick out the often-not-extracted sleeve from the machine gun barrel. He had failures, and not rarely
  2. +14
    24 May 2019 18: 45
    In total, over 150 thousands of these machine guns were produced.

    The USSR is a wonderland.
    The DShK, which the army, navy, and air defense desperately needed, were made with a bang, and only ten thousand of them were released during the war. A much more complex rapid-fire machine guns under the same cartridge could make ten times more.
    1. +6
      24 May 2019 19: 29
      The author went over a bit with the release of UB machine guns - Total released: in 1941 year - 6300, in 1943 year - 43 690, in 1944 year - 38 340, in 1945 year - 42 952 pieces. Those. in the area 130 thousand pieces.
      But what do you suggest, if the production capacity did not allow to produce more DShK, leave the aircraft without large-caliber machine guns?
      And in the air defense there were a large number of small-caliber automatic guns with a caliber of 25 mm and 37 mm.
      1. +7
        24 May 2019 19: 41
        Quote: YOUR
        But what do you suggest, if the production capacity did not allow to produce more DShK, leave the aircraft without large-caliber machine guns?

        No, I am not offering this.
        Problems with DK / DShK were known in 30-x. And since the air gun under the same cartridge has no problems with production, it would be reasonable for the Degtyarevites to take a closer look and understand - what are we doing wrong.
        Quote: YOUR
        And in the air defense there were a large number of small-caliber automatic guns with a caliber of 25 mm and 37 mm.

        Uh-huh ... weighing over a ton and "sitting" at the division level. An analogue of a light MZA, capable of accompanying the same infantry in an offensive, we had a DShK. More precisely, it was not - for there were too few of them.
        1. +3
          25 May 2019 00: 34
          Scoundrel with you.
        2. +4
          26 May 2019 11: 15
          Quote: Alexey RA
          DShK, which the army, navy and air defense desperately needed

          You have probably confused the DShK with the post-war DShKM. And DShKM is a very mediocre product. And already DShK and at all, "tear it off and throw it away."
          The reason is that Degtyarev incorrectly selected a cartridge for a recreation center. It is too powerful for weapons of this class. Now, with the help of modern technology, the situation has somehow stabilized. But in the time of 2MB, this was still a long way off.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          A much more complex aircraft rapid-fire machine guns under the same cartridge

          Aircraft machine guns have a different barrel cooling mode. The excessive power of the Soviet cold-water cartridge did not interfere with them.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          take a closer look and understand what we are doing wrong.

          This was then clear, the skeleton of the rifle complex, the cartridge, was not like that. But then it was impossible to fix it.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Uh-huh ... weighing over a ton and "sitting" at the division level. An analogue of a light MZA capable of accompanying the same infantry in an offensive, we had a DShK.

          The only Soviet capable MZA was 72-K (Soviet Oerlikon). But they began to pay attention to them at the end of the war, and before that they were leaning on the 61-K (Soviet Bofors). Which were just awful what. But the range-altitude digits were better for them.
          As a result, the Red Army had air defense during the war - the DShK fired poorly, and the 61-K fired very poorly. 3/51-K could cause the Germans except a funny laugh. A 52-K was not much better (but better).
          The RKKF was especially "fun". In fact, the ships of the RKKF anti-aircraft weapons (before supplies under Lend-Lease) were completely deprived. What was (Soviet) on them could not be called "ship air defense". Therefore, the German aircraft did what they wanted with them.
          1. 0
            26 May 2019 23: 33
            DShK shot badly, and 61-K shot very badly

            And what were the DShK and 61-K bad about?
            3/51-K

            What’s this all about?
            1. +2
              26 May 2019 23: 45
              Quote: maximghost
              And what were the DShK and 61-K bad about?

              Density of fire, above all. They have a very poor heat balance.
              In DShK, this is a consequence of Degtyarev incorrectly selected for the DC cartridge.
              A 61-K, in principle, could not be done well. Just like the air-cooled Beaufors, in principle, it sucks.
              Water-cooled Bofors was pretty good. But the Soviet 37 mm water-cooled anti-aircraft guns did not exist.
              Quote: maximghost
              What’s this all about?

              This is a Soviet 76 mm anti-aircraft gun.
              1. -1
                27 May 2019 01: 13
                This is a Soviet 76 mm anti-aircraft gun.

                If we are talking about ship installations based on 3K, then their names are 34-K, 39-K and 81-K. , about any 51-K I have not heard.
                A 61-K, in principle, could not be done well. Just like the air-cooled Beaufors, in principle, it sucks.

                Is that why in all countries there were 37 and 40mm air-cooled anti-aircraft guns in commodity quantities?

                Density of fire, above all. They have a very poor heat balance.
                In DShK, this is a consequence of Degtyarev incorrectly selected for the DC cartridge.

                A barrel with a radiator was supposed to help with this. As far as I know, the DShK still shot down Soviet planes in Afagn (jet, by the way), and are still being used. This, kmk, is an indicator of effectiveness.
                1. +1
                  27 May 2019 09: 50
                  Quote: maximghost
                  If we are talking about ship installations based on 3K,

                  And where does the ship installation?
                  Quote: maximghost
                  I haven’t heard about any 51Ks.

                  The Internet is up to date. Rummage around.
                  Quote: maximghost
                  Is that why in all countries there were 37 and 40mm air-cooled anti-aircraft guns in commodity quantities?

                  From hopelessness. Certain echelons simply had nothing to block, so they were released.
                  But this is with the general saturation of the troops of another MZA. In the USSR, there was no saturation of the troops of another MZA. Therefore, the emphasis on issue 61-K was made erroneously.
                  Quote: maximghost
                  As far as I know, the DShK still shot down Soviet planes in Afagn (jet, by the way), and are still being used. This, kmk, is an indicator of effectiveness.

                  From a slingshot you can also knock out an eye. But talk of its effectiveness as a weapon is somewhat exaggerated.
                  1. 0
                    27 May 2019 13: 29
                    The Internet is up to date. Rummage around.

                    Really found. But usually they write about him as a 76mm anti-aircraft gun arr. 38 years old.

                    From hopelessness. Certain echelons simply had nothing to block, so they were released.
                    But this is with the general saturation of the troops of another MZA. In the USSR, there was no saturation of the troops of another MZA. Therefore, the emphasis on issue 61-K was made erroneously.

                    If we take the practical, and the maximum speed rate, the erlikon and 61k are almost the same - 120-130 rounds per minute, and this is with a much more modest projectile. For this reason, 20 mm anti-aircraft guns were popular in the twin, quad (after the war, and was built) versions.

                    Regarding dshk, the duration of its use speaks for it. If there are proofs that confirm it, then that it was a bad heavy machine gun - I’m happy to read it. And yes, the Gorchkins machine gun cartridge is also more powerful than the Browning, but the Germans used it with pleasure.
                    1. 0
                      27 May 2019 15: 01
                      Quote: maximghost
                      But usually they write about him as a 76mm anti-aircraft gun arr. 38 years old.

                      Nothing unusual. The gun, like a 3-K.
                      A carriage was later used for the 52-K.
                      Quote: maximghost
                      If we take the practical and maximum rate of fire, the erlikon and 61k are almost the same - 120-130 rounds per minute

                      This is not true. The practical heat balance of 72-K is 2 times better with copecks than with 61-K. We have a 61-K passport combat rate of fire of 120 v / m. In fact, of course, more modest, about 110 V / m, no more. In this scenario, we have a rate of 72-K of about 240 v / m.
                      This is a noticeably greater density of fire. Although not so "high-rise".
                      But the Yu-87 was not bombed at high altitudes. Yes, and Yu-88, too.
                      Once again, the passion for the release of 61-K. it was a mistake. 72-K would be much more out of place.
                      Quote: maximghost
                      Regarding dshk, the duration of its use speaks for it.

                      You confuse DShK and DShKM. DShK was not used for long.
                      Quote: maximghost
                      but the Germans enjoyed using it.

                      The Germans generally "used everything with pleasure." Even PPSh and three-line. They had very serious strains with weapons.
                2. +1
                  27 May 2019 11: 39
                  Quote: maximghost
                  This, kmk, is an indicator of effectiveness.


                  This is an indicator of poverty.
      2. 0
        27 May 2019 11: 50
        25 mm caliber had a very limited release, so only 37 mm can be considered.
        1. 0
          27 May 2019 13: 47
          The 71-K gun produced about 5000 units. Later, on its basis, marine anti-aircraft guns were created. Not long ago removed from service with ships.
          1. 0
            27 May 2019 14: 32
            Quote: YOUR
            The 71-K gun produced about 5000 units. Later, on its basis, marine anti-aircraft guns were created. Not long ago removed from service with ships.

            I don’t know 71-K, I know 72-K. Given that by the end of 1942 there were only 400 installations and problems with the release of shells, probably the presence of this system in the troops can be considered miserable.
            In particular, in 1944, the consumption of ammunition for the caliber of 37 mm amounted to 7 million 164,4 thousand shells versus 707 thousand for the caliber of 25 mm, this is when they became almost 2 thousand, after the deployment of production at the second plant. If we take into account the weight of the metal that was sent to the flight by both, the difference will triple. So we can assume that it was practically not there until 1943, and starting from it, it sometimes began to appear at the front. Production was curtailed in 1945.
    2. 0
      27 May 2019 00: 18
      I read somewhere that the DShK had a price comparable to forty. Perhaps this is the case.
  3. +5
    24 May 2019 18: 47
    Light bullet with honestly say, not the most successful form, could not provide decent ballistics. Not very impressive and the initial speed of the bullet.


    The initial speed 780 m / s, the ammunition consisted of explosive bullets and armor-piercing containing incendiary or tracer element in the base.
  4. +3
    24 May 2019 19: 10
    Thank you wonderful article
  5. +2
    24 May 2019 19: 32
    Thank you, very interesting, did not know much!
  6. +3
    24 May 2019 20: 00
    Quote: Alexey RA
    In total, over 150 thousands of these machine guns were produced.

    The USSR is a wonderland.
    The DShK, which the army, navy, and air defense desperately needed, were made with a bang, and only ten thousand of them were released during the war. A much more complex rapid-fire machine guns under the same cartridge could make ten times more.

    UB and DShK have a different purpose: it is logical to assume that UB was a priority, and DShK was overshadowed, well, and the production capacity was not enough.
    1. +4
      24 May 2019 20: 19
      Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
      UB and DShK have a different purpose: it is logical to assume that UB was a priority, and DShK was overshadowed, well, and the production capacity was not enough.

      DShK, relegated to the background - this is unscientific fantasy. Because the DShK demanded as many as two Commissariats — the defense and the navy (more precisely, three — it was also needed by the NKVD for the maritime security). And in the NKO he was immediately demanded by both the air defense troops and the ground vehicles. And then the GABTU was connected.
      1. +3
        24 May 2019 22: 24
        Quote: Alexey RA
        DShK, pushed into the background - this is unscientific fiction.

        I agree! It seems that the problems of DShK for the most part were of a technological nature. Perhaps it was worth trying to adapt the UB for the army too.
      2. +1
        25 May 2019 20: 42
        DShK, which is typical, was developed in the aviation version.


        http://airwar.ru/weapon/guns/dak32.html
    2. +5
      25 May 2019 00: 59
      Machine guns were produced by different factories, so it's not about the capacity of the factories, but about the attitude to the machine gun. I don’t understand why the authors did not mention the 12,7mm ShVAK machine gun, the first domestic aircraft heavy machine gun. "Further events add questions. In 1932-1933, Shpitalny-Vladimirov's large-caliber machine gun passed field tests, showing an extremely high rate of fire, reaching 700-800 rds / min, which contrasted with the first serial DK, which issued only 300-400 rds / min. At the same time, the details of the test reports are absent.And already in 1934 it was put into service under the name of the 12,7-mm aircraft machine gun of the Shpitalny and Vladimirov system - ShVAK (Shpitalny - Vladimirov - aviation - large-caliber). Intrigues are added by the fact that when B. G.Shpitalny in 1934 received his own OKB-15 "by the highest order", the chief developer of the ShVAK Semyon Vladimirovich Vladimirov at the same time, in May 1934, was suddenly transferred from the Tula Central Design Bureau of Small Arms (TsKBSV) not to his leader in a new structure, but to Kovrovskoe PKB, led by Degtyarev, where he continues to fine-tune the ShVAK. Translation of Vladimirov together with the machine gun project in Kovrov is amazing about moreover coincides with the stoppage of work on the DK machine gun, which was removed from production in 1935 under the pretext of a low practical rate of fire. At the same time, Shpitalny, actively lobbying for his ShVAK, apparently convinces Stalin that the new heavy machine gun is ideal not only for aviation, but also as a universal weapon for the army and navy as an anti-aircraft and anti-tank
      1. +4
        25 May 2019 12: 11
        Quote: Amurets
        I do not understand why the authors did not mention 12,7mm ShVAK machine gun


        What to mention it? The 86 pieces that were released are nothing in the full sense of the word. The machine gun did not go into the series, respectively, did not fight. We are talking about weapons that participated in the Second World War. Everything is very simple.
        1. 0
          25 May 2019 14: 23
          Quote: Banshee
          What to mention? The 86 pieces that were released are nothing in the full sense of the word. The machine gun did not go into the series, respectively, did not fight
          In principle, I did not write the address to whom the comment is intended. He intended Ezekiel 25-17 I apologize
  7. +2
    24 May 2019 20: 51
    Breda-SAFAT 12,7-mm quite normally fired exactly 12,7-mm shells

    Strictly speaking, the difference between a bullet and a projectile is the presence of a leading belt. The shell has it, the bullet doesn't.
    1. +2
      25 May 2019 06: 22
      There is "International humanitarian law and protection of victims of armed conflicts. Prohibited methods and means of warfare."
      "This ban is intended to exclude the use of explosive bullets as ammunition causing unnecessary suffering. The ban on explosive ammunition weighing up to 400 g does not apply to cannon shells of 20-25 mm caliber."
      So the use of shells less than 20 mm is prohibited.
      https://www.mil.by/ru/all_about/metod/lecture1.doc
      1. +3
        25 May 2019 07: 09
        But everybody scored this ban. Although, 14,5x114 or 12,7x104 MDZ are unlikely to cause suffering when hit, the victim dies on the spot.
      2. +4
        25 May 2019 10: 56
        Of course, this is all true, but if we are guided by formal signs, then explosive (sighting) bullets are not shells. Well, as for the prohibitions - even anti-personnel mines forbid and forbid everything, and there is no end in sight.
  8. +1
    24 May 2019 22: 06
    Thanks to the author. Interesting.
  9. +5
    24 May 2019 22: 29
    The authors somehow overly free comparison criteria in the article deduced. The delirium is reliable but bad because the low rate of fire, especially in the synchronous version. It turns out that Browning has exactly the same poor rate of fire in the synchronous version, but is still good. Probably because the cartridge is more powerful :) And the Americans did not put their Browning in the hood for a screw. They knew what was bad. The German has a very weak cartridge but is still good. Probably because it's easy :) Japanese kamikaze just right, point-blank shoot.

    But in general, I liked the article anyway, Thank you!
  10. +5
    24 May 2019 22: 35
    In general, it is difficult to draw a clear line in terms of caliber. Well, the 12,7-mm is a machine gun. 20-mm is a gun. What about 15 mm? Where does the German creation MG.151 go?
    There is an officially accepted classification, then that up to 20mm is a machine gun, and from 20mm and above - a gun.
    1. 0
      25 May 2019 06: 49
      And where is the 14.5mm CPV?
      1. +2
        25 May 2019 07: 37
        Quote: Nagan
        And where is the 14.5mm CPV?

        And was it used during the Second World War? Apparently, I didn’t understand something then.
        The shortcomings of universal machines delayed the adoption of a machine gun for armament, and the proving ground of the system passed only May 1948 of the year

        But in general, 14,5 × 114 mm is exactly what a cartridge is, not a projectile. So KPV is definitely a machine gun.
    2. 0
      25 May 2019 10: 20
      I first learned about this weapon from the article * Friedrich-brother * Emil * as about a gun on the Me-109F-2, Since then I consider it a gun,
    3. 0
      25 May 2019 14: 47
      Quote: Cats
      There is an officially accepted classification, then that up to 20mm is a machine gun, and from 20mm and above - a gun.

      We ShVAK-20 in documents called automatic or in general machine gun, despite the caliber - considering it a re-fired machine gun SHVAK-12,7:
      Large-caliber machine gun ShVAK was originally designed by the engineer Shpitalniy for 12,7 mm caliber.
      In order to increase the effect of his projectile (bullet) in the future, the engineer Shpitalny adapted this machine gun by replacing the barrel for firing 20 mm with fragmentation (explosive) shells. Due to the high rate of fire (20 rounds per minute) and the presence of a fragmentation projectile that satisfactorily operates on aircraft structures, the ShVAK automatic machine created as a result of this work is a powerful aviation weapon. Therefore, by the decision of STO No. OK-800 ss of 100, it was decided to adopt for aviation armament ShVAK submachine gun exclusively 20 mm.
      Comprehensive tests of this system in 1936 as anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons of a rifle regiment showed that the transition from a caliber of 12,7 mm to 20 mm is disadvantageous from the point of view of air defense and anti-aircraft missile defense.
      Due to the fact that the ShVAK automation was originally designed for a 12,7 mm caliber, it was necessary to use an extremely light weight shell (20 grams against the normal weight for this caliber of 91-125 grams) and a short length for using a 150 mm cartridge. As a result, the projectile received reduced ballistic qualities, leading to a rapid loss of initial velocity.
      This circumstance leads to a significant decrease in armor penetration. 20 mm ShVAK machine gun and reduce the distance of anti-aircraft fire compared with a 12,7 mm machine gun ...
      © Commander 2nd rank Khalepsky, head of the Artillery Department of the Red Army Corps Commander Efimov. "Information about 12,7 mm and 20 mm ShVAK machine guns."
  11. 0
    24 May 2019 22: 49
    The designer of the machine gun, Mikhail Evgenievich Berezin, really created one of the weapon masterpieces that we can be justly proud of. And considering that the machine gun was the first work of a young designer at that time, it remains only to express the deepest regret that Mikhail Evgenievich lived so little.

    This is what worries me - ALL, quite young and very talented designers (and not only) of the USSR - Frunze, Berezin, died an incomprehensible death.
  12. 0
    25 May 2019 07: 08
    I wonder why UB was used only in aviation? It would seem that put on the thumbs mount and get an anti-aircraft (and not only) machine gun for the Navy. And the same cabinet in the back of a GAZ-67 or Willis would be a great mobile anti-aircraft cover for troops and a worthy replacement for horse carts (well, then Toyota Hilux, which became the basis of jihad mobiles, mostly incidentally armed with DShKs). But no, they made the DShK for these purposes, and in quantities clearly insufficient to saturate the troops. But the war ended, and the production of UB came to naught, it was replaced by 23mm and large guns. And the production of DShKs, on the contrary, was increased, it was put on each tank, and he went to the troops on a wheeled carriage, very reminiscent of Maxim. In the Russian Federation, it seems to have been replaced not so long ago with Kord, but there are many places where it is actively used even now, in particular in jihad-mobiles, since there are a lot of them around the world.
    1. +1
      25 May 2019 14: 56
      Quote: Nagan
      And the same cabinet in the back of a GAZ-67 or Willis would be a great mobile anti-aircraft cover for troops and a worthy replacement for horse carts (well, then Toyota Hilux, which became the basis of jihad mobiles, mostly incidentally armed with DShKs). But no, they made the DShK for these purposes, and in quantities clearly insufficient to saturate the troops.

      The reason is simple and well known: aviation weapons are designed for short-term use (you can’t shoot more than one ammunition anyway - there are no more cartridges on board) in almost ideal conditions of clean air with subsequent maintenance qualified staff (and not by calculation forces). To protect against dust, even the trunks were sealed with percale guns.
      When transferring aircraft weapons systems to the sinful land, a full fifth point begins - even if revised. Because the whole life of army automatic systems takes place in an atmosphere of dust and dirt, and at times - and prolonged firing (especially in air defense). The army already had experience in using the "grounded" ShVAK-20 - TNSh. And this experience was negative - in the summer of 1942, there were massive reports from tank brigades about TNSh failures and the transformation of the T-60 into machine-gun "females" (using PMV terminology).
    2. 0
      26 May 2019 07: 00
      Actually, the UBT from downed planes was sometimes used in the anti-aircraft version, I came across photos of such installations, but it was an amateur art.
  13. +1
    25 May 2019 07: 51
    But then came the moment when rifle bullets merrily drummed on the armored carcasses of aircraft of the 40s, causing a yell on one side and righteous anger on the other.

    In fact, the aviation big ones showed themselves a little earlier than the 40s. In Spain, our pilots considered the Italian CR.32 the most dangerous enemy, because only its 12,7-mm (those "bad" Breda-Safat) pierced the armored backs. It was according to the analysis of the Spanish battles in the USSR that they began to include large-caliber weapons in the TTZ for fighters.
  14. +1
    25 May 2019 10: 25
    The 12,7 mm * Safat * showed itself very well in Spain at * Fiat-32 *, its heavy bullets inflicted serious damage on our fighters, And when shooting the 32nd I-16 was more stable, and the accuracy was higher
  15. 0
    25 May 2019 19: 08
    Thanks to the authors, an excellent article that reads like a detective novel. hi
  16. +2
    26 May 2019 10: 22
    Still, the shooters were in short supply with a device that allowed them to pull a sleeve stuck from the barrel out of the BS (did the BS have this?) If I am not mistaken, he wedged not so rarely
  17. +1
    27 May 2019 12: 34
    It's great to vote on the "numbers" from the plate
    If we take the modification ".50 Browning АN / M3" - with an increased rate of fire of 1150-1250, then it surpassed the UB in terms of rate of fire and the weight of a second salvo.
    Reliability - at times.
    Factory brigades only had time to go to the airfields for complaints, to solve problems with the operation of UB - a low production culture and low qualification of regimental gunsmiths.

    Browning had no such serious problems:
    Having spent more than a month on board the aircraft carrier "Saratoga" in the area of ​​hostilities, Captain Schoeffel reported to Washington that over the entire period of his observations by aircraft of the aircraft carrier, more than 200 thousand 12.7-mm cartridges were used for machine guns ".50 Browning AN / M2" and for this time, only two serious machine gun failures and two dozen minor flaws were identified. Captain Schoeffel said that although one of the purposes of his inspection trip to the Pacific was to identify the shortcomings of the machine gun, he had difficulty finding reasons to nag about the high effectiveness of the weapon.

    You can’t say the same about UB - delays in firing fighters at the initial stage of the war are commonplace. The first thing right after take-off is a test line of weapons

    Take on the scale of production:
    Large-caliber Browning M2 was produced in the USA in huge series. During World War II alone, they were released by more than 2 million units both in the infantry, tank, anti-aircraft version - Browning.2 M50 HB, and aviation - Browning.2 AN / M50 in dozens of modifications.


    By the way, modification ".50 Browning - GAU-21 is still in use."

    If the UB were an excellent weapon, it would be modernized and used after the war, however, it was withdrawn from service as the resource of the aviation equipment on which it was flying out took off.