Import "stuffing" of the Russian ships: again on the same rake

Introduction


The equipment of Russian ships under construction with imported equipment has its many years of history. Proof of this are ships built according to the programs of military shipbuilding of the Russian Empire of the late XIX - early XX centuries, pre-war shipbuilding programs of the USSR (1935 — 1938), as well as the development program of the Russian Navy on 2011 — 2020.


The only exceptions were ships and ships created under the post-war shipbuilding programs of the USSR 1945 — 1991, in which equipment was given priority in equipment, technical equipment and components mainly of domestic production.

According to the authors, the high proportion of imported equipment in equipping Russian ships and vessels in tsarist times and in the present period is the result of technical and technological backwardness of the domestic industry, including misunderstanding of the role and place of the technical component in our state’s economy, and, therefore, underestimation of the importance of scientific, technical, engineering and working personnel in Russian society.

Is it possible to avoid equipping ships and ships of the Navy with imported equipment? According to the authors, this is possible when replacing diesel, diesel-gas turbine and gas-gas turbine power plants with other types of power plants, for example, air-jet.

About import "stuffing"


Virtually all ships and vessels with imported equipment, as is known, have a number of features that affect not only their use in Russian conditions, but also significantly increase operating costs compared to ships and vessels equipped with domestic equipment. These features include the following.

First, the objective need to address many additional issues related to the presence in the Russian Navy of ships and vessels with imported equipment. For example, training and retraining of all categories of personnel for maintenance of imported equipment; carrying out factory repairs; ship supply with components, spare parts, fuel and fuel, recommended by the manufacturer, etc.

If these issues are resolved by the manufacturer, Russia will need to allocate large amounts of foreign currency to pay for services provided by the foreign party, while at the same time repairing, upgrading or replacing imported equipment will cause ships to be decommissioned for a longer time or repaired. in the producing country abroad, thereby reducing the combat readiness of the Russian Navy. In this case, large financial expenses in foreign currency will also be required, including for the maintenance of the crew and the payment of travel expenses abroad.

In addressing these issues, our country will also have to incur significant costs of foreign currency, for example, to pay for the services of foreign specialists and to purchase the required components, parts, tools, etc. from the manufacturing plant.

Secondly, the use of foreign equipment on ships and ships that are part of the Navy of other countries forces these countries to sacrifice their national interests in one way or another, because it forces them to follow the policy of the producing country, otherwise ships and ships can lose the opportunity to go to sea.

Thirdly, in the event of a deterioration or breakdown in relations between former partners, as a rule, the supply of necessary components, spare parts, etc., as a rule, ceases, and ships and vessels with imported “stuffing” become practically useless. History knows a lot of such examples. So, after the deterioration of relations between Indonesia and the USSR, the cruiser "Irian" (former Soviet cruiser "Ordzhonikidze"), being part of the Indonesian naval forces, due to the cessation of supplies from the Soviet Union naval fuel oil, fuels and lubricants, components, parts, spare parts, etc. for about 10 years he was unable to go to sea, rusted against the wall of the naval base of Surabaya, acting as a floating prison, and was subsequently scrapped. A similar situation developed in the mid-1970s with Ethiopian naval ships manufactured in the USA, Great Britain and Italy.

Fourth, it is well known that the technical characteristics of export products, including ships, ships and elements of their power installations, are somewhat different (sometimes not for the better) from similar indicators of products intended for internal use in a manufacturing country.

Fifth, the priority use of imported products, including shipbuilding machinery, is one of the significant factors hindering the development of not only national industry, but also domestic science and technology.

Finally, no country in the world will provide for export (even to its closest allies) the latest (latest) weapons and military equipment. This also applies to the elements of the power plant. Abroad, as a rule, physically new, but morally obsolete samples, products and technologies are sold.

Facts from the story


In the history of the national navy there were enough examples of equipping warships with mechanisms, devices and weapons of foreign manufacture.

Since at that time steam power plants (CSPs) were the most developed, during the execution of the 1895 shipbuilding program of the year, the ships of the Imperial Fleet of Russia were equipped with CSPs of foreign production, including British triple expansion steam engines with Yarrow steam boilers (shipbuilding company Yarrou Limited), also English Yarrow triple-expansion steam engines with Russian-made licensed French steam boilers Belleville.

Most of the ships (the battleship Oslyabya, the Almaz cruiser, the Zhemchug cruiser, the Aurora cruiser, the Prince Suvorov battleship, the Oryol battleship, the Sisoy the Great battleship, etc.) built using the 1895 shipbuilding program , participated in the Tsushima battle in May 1905.


Battleship "Prince Suvorov". Russian empire



Cruiser Aurora". Russian empire


The main disadvantages of the main power plants (GEM) of domestic ships of the early twentieth century, equipped with imported equipment, were operational problems of boilers (low parameters of produced steam, low productivity, overrun of coal, accumulation of soot in boilers, overheating of boilers, the formation of difficult-to-remove tar deposits in the furnace, flue gas emissions from the furnace to the boiler room and others) and triple-expansion steam engines (low efficiency, large mass-dimensional characteristics, low speed, high crankshaft speed, etc.), and the lack of domestic automatic control systems for boilers and steam engines. In addition, low steam parameters and low steam output of boilers required the presence of a large number of them on the ship - from 18 to 25 units. The shortcomings of the foreign-made power plant significantly reduced the tactical and technical indicators of domestic ships (travel speed, cruising range, maneuverability, reliability, survivability), against the background of which other objective and subjective reasons aggravated, leading the Russian Imperial fleet to the Tsushima tragedy. After Tsushima, the Russian fleet lost its ocean status for almost half a century, and Russia - the status of a great naval power.


Battleship Dreadnought. Great Britain


Delivering outdated shipboard equipment abroad, their ships from the beginning of the twentieth century, for example, the UK has already equipped with boiler-turbine installations (KTU) with more efficient technical means. Thus, the power plant of the ship "Dreadnought", which became part of the English fleet in 1906, consisted of 4's Parson steam turbines and 18 of Babcock and Wilcox boilers.

Lessons from the Tsushima Battle


These lessons were taken into account, albeit partially, in the 1911 — 1914 shipbuilding program. Thus, battleships of the Sevastopol type (4 units) and the Empress Maria type (2 units) introduced into the Russian Imperial fleet during this period, instead of inefficient and bulky triple-expansion steam engines, were equipped with more efficient Parson steam turbines. However, even in this shipbuilding program, the development and equipping of Russian ships with domestic equipment and technical means did not provide for, which made the fleet's combat capability dependent on supplies from the manufacturing countries.

In 30-s of the twentieth century, domestic shipbuilders also sharply faced the issue of equipping ships built in accordance with shipbuilding programs (1935 and 1939) with power plants, which was caused by the technical and technological backwardness of our country. At that time, shipyards could quickly and well build ship hulls of various classes, including cruisers, destroyer leaders and destroyers, but the production of elements of the main power plant (ship steam boilers, ship steam turbines, their servicing mechanisms, etc.) it was developed insufficiently and significantly lagged behind the advanced shipbuilding states.


Battleship Sevastopol. Russian empire


To speed up the process of building new ships for the Navy of the USSR, the country's leadership decided to equip part of the hulls of ships under construction with power plants manufactured abroad, in particular in the UK1. Thus, the first light cruiser of the 26 project (Kirov), the first of the three destroyers of the 1 project (Moscow) and several destroyers of the Leningrad 7 project (the Watchdog series) were equipped. All of these ships were introduced into the combat composition of the Soviet Navy before the war.


The cruiser "Kirov". the USSR



The destroyer of the Watchdog series. the USSR


The Great Patriotic War of 1941 — 1945, as is known, was the hardest test not only for all of our people, but also for military equipment, including ships of the Russian Navy. Unfortunately, not all ships built in 1930 have withstood severe martial examinations. Turn to historical facts.

The fact of the first. June 26, 1941 the leader of the destroyers "Moscow", having completed the combat mission of shelling the Romanian naval base and port of Constanta, headed for Sevastopol. Upon returning to their base, the prevailing operational-tactical situation (enemy raid aviation) demanded the development of the ship the maximum possible course for a long time. Long-term operation of the power plant in ultra-nominal mode led to the destruction of the supporting devices (foundations) of the main steam turbines, which could not withstand the conditions of harsh operation. First, the foundations cracked, and then began to collapse. The reason for the destruction of the foundations was the material of their manufacture - cast iron - a brittle metal that is not able to withstand long-term extreme dynamic stresses. The result of the accident caused by the use of cast-iron foundations was the loss by the leader of the destroyers of the course and the death of the ship from the influence of the enemy weapons.

It should be added that in the peacetime period before the war, the power plants of combat ships operated on nominal and supernominal regimes for a very short time only during the trial running tests, and after the ships were accepted into the fleet, the long-term operation of the ship's power plant on the marginal modes was completely prohibited by a special circular.

The fact of the second. From help-report2 National Commissar of the USSR Navy Admiral N. G. Kuznetsov, the leaders of the country indicated that, as of 21 June 1941, the Navy included 37 destroyers of the “Watchdog” series (7 and 7У project), of which the 10 were combat-capable, the rest were could not go to sea, mainly due to the failure of the superheaters of the main steam boilers and the inability to replace them.

The fact is that shipboard steam boilers manufactured in Great Britain, installed on ships, were designed to use heavy fuel produced in England, while burning in the boilers of domestic naval fuel oil, especially at maximum fuel load, led to the burning of steam superheaters, resulting in a violation of performance of boilers and power plant in general. In addition, the dimensions of the boiler compartment of the destroyers of this series did not allow repairing the tail elements of the boiler system of the boilers under conditions of the ship that were constantly failing, and also excluded their dismantling by the crew for repair in the factory. In the first blockade Leningrad winter 1941 — 1942, the scientists carried out many heat engineering calculations, which showed that the imported steam turbines of the destroyers of the 7 and 7У projects are capable of operating on wet steam, that is, without overheating, and the lack of steam superheaters in steam boilers, although there are few but still does not lead to a significant deterioration in the tactical and technical characteristics of the power plant and the ship as a whole. The results of the work performed allowed the Navy leadership in wartime conditions to make an informed decision on the further operation of the ships of these projects without steam superheaters. Steam superheaters of the ship’s boilers were simply dismantled and, until the end of the war, the destroyer turbines operated on wet steam. However, precious time was missed and many ships in the most difficult for our country first period of the Great Patriotic War performed combat missions, standing at berths and factory walls, without going to sea.

Unfortunately, the considered examples show that the experience of using domestic warships with an imported electromechanical installation obtained during World War II can hardly be considered successful, since some shipboard power plants of foreign production for one reason or another have lost their performance under extreme operating conditions. It is obvious that the failures of the elements of the main power plant significantly reduced the combat capability of both the individual ship and the navy as a whole. It becomes obvious that many ships built according to pre-war shipbuilding programs and equipped with imported equipment were more suitable for parades than for war, as evidenced by the historical facts outlined above.

The lessons of combat use of Soviet ships in the Great Patriotic War were not in vain and were taken into account in the post-war shipbuilding programs of the USSR, ships and auxiliary ships of the Navy of domestic construction were equipped with mechanisms and devices exclusively domestic production, which allowed not only to eliminate the causes of many emergencies, but at the end of the 50 of the last century to bring the Soviet fleet into the world's oceans, and to return to our country the status of a great maritime power.

The ship power industry of Soviet production was at the level of foreign, and for high-speed diesel engines and gas turbines for a long time occupied the leading position in the world. In general, the level of domestic shipbuilding corresponded to the world level with the exception of the production of radio electronics and individual components for ships and ships, which was due to the lag in the production of element base. In general, the level reached by the shipbuilding industry of the USSR provided an opportunity to have a Navy meeting the objectives of the country, and in a certain sense equal to the US Navy.

What about today?


At present, as is known, Russia is implementing a large-scale shipbuilding program for the SPN 2011 — 2020, the purpose of which is to qualitatively and quantitatively update the Russian Navy, including through the introduction of surface ships — frigates, corvettes and small ships — into its combat personnel. as well as auxiliary vessels of the new generation.

Initially, according to the technical task, new warships and auxiliary vessels were to be equipped with main power plants (GEM) of foreign (mainly German and Ukrainian) production, but after the introduction of sanctions, the European Union imposed an embargo on these products as dual-use products, and German MTU Friedrichshafen (Baden-Baden, Germany), a manufacturer of marine diesel engines, despite the presence and partial payment of contracts, stopped the delivery of its products to Russia. At the same time, the GP ZNPA “Zorya-Mashproekt” (Nikolaev, Ukraine) unilaterally severed military-technical cooperation with Russian shipyards.

The absence of ship engines and the impossibility of acquiring them abroad once again raised the question for domestic shipbuilders: “What can replace imported ship main engines?”

The problem of the lack of engines led to the freezing of the construction of ships and auxiliary vessels of the Russian Navy and in fact disrupted the planned implementation time of the national shipbuilding program as a whole. Constructed, but not equipped with engines, the hulls of some new ships and vessels were lowered into the water, where they are in storage until the issue is resolved with the power plants. For example, three frigates of the 11356 Ave. (Yantar plant, Kaliningrad).

To date, a way out of this situation has been found, but in part.

Ship diesel installations of the German company MTU were replaced by domestic ship diesel engines: 10Д49 (16ЧНХ26 / 26) of Kolomna Plant - on frigates and М507Д-1 of the Zvezda plant (St. Petersburg) - on missile boats.

The M90FR gas turbine engines for frigates have already been manufactured in Rybinsk at the ODK-Saturn and are ready to be sent to the Severnaya Verf plant (St. Petersburg), but the fleet needs not just gas turbine engines (GTE), but the main gas turbine-gear units (GGTZA), in addition to GTE, they include gearboxes, the production of which is entrusted to the Zvezda plant (St. Petersburg). However, there is no information about the time of manufacture and supply of gearboxes for gas-turbine engines M90FR.

Thus, to organize a full-fledged import substitution in the equipment of ships and vessels by domestic power plants has not yet succeeded.

Authors' proposal


The collapse of the Soviet Union led to the loss of ship engineering in Russia (ship gas turbine engines, diesel engines, boilers and steam turbines) and today, in the new Russia, it is necessary to re-create this production, which will require considerable time. To speed up the process of equipping ships and ships under construction, you can first develop and implement the simplest and cheapest ship power plants, for example, installations with jet propulsion.

According to the authors, an air-water jet-cavitation apparatus, in which the outlet diffuser is replaced by a nozzle, can be used as a water jet jet or propulsion jet in the proposed power plant. High-pressure air is used as the active (working) medium of such a jet-cavitation propeller, and seawater is used for passive (intake) air.

The backbone element of this power plant is a source of compressed air, for example, an air compressor, designed to compress the required amount of air to the parameters required for the normal operation of the jet-cavitation propulsion unit of parameters. In addition, the power plant incorporates a high-pressure air pipeline, shut-off organs, instrumentation and other elements combined into a single system in their functional purpose. The pressure pipe of the air compressor is connected via an air pipe of high pressure to the working nozzle of the jet apparatus. The jet propulsion unit is mounted inside the ship hull in the lower part of the transom (Eng. Transon - a flat cut of the stern) of the vessel at an angle, with the propulsion output and suction nozzles taken out of the hull and buried beneath the water level. The power plant can have one or several echelons, the number of which is determined by the displacement of the ship.

Echelon power plant works as follows. High-pressure air (VVD) from an air compressor through an VVD pipeline enters the nozzle of an air-water jet-cavitation apparatus, in the working chamber of which, when air flows out of the nozzle, a sufficient vacuum is created for self-absorption of water from the side. At the exit from the jet propulsion, an air-water jet is emitted directly into the water under pressure, creating an emphasis necessary for the movement of the vessel. The change in the ship’s speed at the same time occurs due to an increase or decrease in the parameters (flow and pressure) of air after the compressor, which is fed into the nozzle of the jet-cavitation propulsion unit.

Use as a jet propulsion air-water jet-cavitation apparatus will eliminate many of the disadvantages of the propeller and the traditional jet propulsion.

It is obvious that a power plant with air-water jet-cavitation propellers is more economical and has much smaller weight and size characteristics compared to the installations used today. In addition, by implementing certain constructive measures, it is possible to significantly increase the survivability of the proposed power plant and the vessel as a whole.

The authors believe that the creation of the ship's air-jet power installation (SVVEU), the echelon of which includes, for example, one diesel-compressor (domestic production), consisting of high-pressure air compressor K30А-23 (power 235 kW / 320 hp, air capacity 600 m³ / h and final air pressure 200 ÷ 400 kg / cm²) driven by a JMZ 7514.10-01 diesel engine (277 kW / 375 hp, specific fuel consumption - 208 gr. / kW * h); high pressure air pipelines; high pressure air cylinders; instrumentation and one / two air-water (s) jet-cavitation (s) water-jet (s) propulsion (s) is currently quite realistic, for example, for ships of small displacement, in particular for rocket and artillery boats. Obviously, with the increase in the ship’s or vessel’s displacement, the number of echelons of the AHEC will increase.

For the introduction and use of the proposed power plant, it is necessary to carry out the necessary calculations and field tests. At the same time, the final decision on equipping newly built ships and vessels with the considered power plant, including the mechanisms, devices and systems of domestic production, remains with the leaders who have the authority to do so.

conclusions


HISTORY is an important SCIENCE, because it is a guideline of movement in the right direction, not only for the individual, but also for society as a whole. Those who ignore and do not know the story or do not learn its lessons, subsequently pay dearly for it.

Fulfilling the instructions of Admiral S.O. Makarov, the descendants of "REMEMBER THE WAR", Russian ships and auxiliary vessels of the Navy must be equipped with technical means and systems exclusively domestic production, otherwise you can again step on the same rake.

1 The team leader for acceptance of ship boilers and turbines for ships of the 7 and 7 projects in the UK was Kurzon Ananii Grigorievich, a graduate of the 1934 of the Leningrad Shipbuilding Institute, later a doctor of technical sciences, professor, honored scientist and engineer of the RSFSR, chairman of the Shipbuilding section and deputy Chairman of the Leningrad branch of the All-Union Scientific and Technical Society "Knowledge".
2 One copy of Kuznetsov’s reference report with a resolution of I. V. Stalin was sent to the LCI to eliminate technical deficiencies by the scientists of the institute, a copy of this document was kept in the archive of Kurzon A. G.
3 The high-pressure air compressor K30А-2 is the compressor part of the electric compressor ЕK30А-2.
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  1. Strashila 17 May 2019 05: 37 New
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    This applies to all sectors of the country, the collapse of scientific and technical cooperation. Everything is as if the 30s of the last century have to, not be restored, but created from scratch. The liberal liberals' words about the general integration into the global economy have been clearly observed in recent years, just like a hundred years ago no one will sell anything to Russia, even for a lot of money. Everything is aggravated by the lack of will of the country's leaders and the presence of local policies.
    1. Deck 17 May 2019 06: 28 New
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      Never mind - this is a simple advertising article from three Ph.D.

      according to the authors, an air-water jet-cavitation apparatus can be used in which the output diffuser is replaced by a nozzle

      I immediately remembered the Screwdriver device (because with a screw rushing!)
      1. Tatyana 17 May 2019 07: 12 New
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        The authors are absolutely right!

        Well done Chinese! Now they are installing absolutely everything on the products of the domestic defense industry.
        Because in China there are no liberoid thieves and traitors, defectors, but who are, they are "caught up" and shot.
        And the authorities “above” in the PRC are primarily representatives of the historically state of the forming people, and not representatives of national minorities, as is the case in Russia, for which privatization in the USSR / Russia was a form of destruction of both the Soviet country and indirect transfer her piecemeal in foreign colonial administration. Which, in fact, we are now in defense in case of war with the same USA and the collective West now we have practically.

        Chubais told the truth about privatization. Posted on: 19 Feb 2010 of the year.
        1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 17 May 2019 07: 51 New
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          Turbines for frigates 22350 from the very beginning did in Rybinsk. Saturn made turbines, Kolomna made diesel engines, then it was sent to Zorya, who added her gearbox and gas generator, tested the complete assembly at her stand and sent it to St. Petersburg. It was necessary to import not so much a turbine, but a Ukrainian gearbox, which is part of the DSTU. To date, a turbine has been made, a stand built. The gearbox is ready, now you can assemble the turbine, diesel engine and gearbox at the stand. Photograph of the P055 gearbox.
          1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 17 May 2019 08: 02 New
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            Assembly and testing complex for gas turbine engines and assemblies (gas turbine engines and gas turbine engines) for offshore programs for the production of ship gas turbine engines. Now our industry will have free hands. GEM for 22350 is only the beginning. Such stands remained after the collapse of the Union only in Ukraine at Zorya-Mashproekt.
            1. Tatyana 17 May 2019 08: 12 New
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              And yet, while in power in the Russian Federation there will be such executors of the global democracy plan as “effective managers” Chubais, Kudrins, Medvedevs, Nabiulins, etc. “marketers” - adherents of world globalization — the Russians will even in the defense industry one way or another to step on the rake of the times of 1991 year!

              Why do we need Chubais? (Cognitive TV, Artyom Voitenkov) Published: 14 Oct. 2018
              1. NEXUS 17 May 2019 13: 34 New
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                Quote: Tatiana
                while in power in the Russian Federation there will be such executors of the global democracy plan as “effective managers” Chubais, Kudrins, Medvedevs, Nabiulins and others. “marketers” - adherents of globalization - Russians will even step on the rake of the 1991 times one way or another of the year!

                Those whom you listed do not solve ANYTHING. And in your phrase there is an answer ...
                adherents of globalization,

                Only not adherents, but instigators of this globalization. And these are not even trumps and Putin ...
                1. vladcub 17 May 2019 15: 41 New
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                  Whether we like it or not, globalization is everywhere ..
                  In fact, we began globalization in the eighties. After all, all these joint ventures are the beginning of globalization, but in a different way it is called
                  1. NEXUS 17 May 2019 15: 42 New
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                    Quote: vladcub
                    In fact, we began globalization in the eighties.

                    No ... globalization began where it was before ... I think it started back in the 19 century, and maybe earlier.
                    1. Astra wild 17 May 2019 16: 54 New
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                      I agree with you: globalization appeared much earlier, but it was called differently, but the essence remains the same.
                2. Artunis 19 May 2019 12: 43 New
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                  Do not decide, say, well, well! When deciding on the production of the Sukhoi Superjet, there was a choice between Tu414 and this “super”, naturally the carcasses were hacked and decided on international cooperation with Boeing and other “partners”! And guess who was behind such a decision - well, of course, "effective managers" Gref and Khristenko !!!! Gaidar nest chicks (conditionally of course)! As a result, the carcass project is destroyed and we have what we have, i.e. we don’t have our own liner and this is obsolete, and even then it is 70% imported g ... but. The problem is solved brilliantly! And so in everything for what these gentlemen undertake. I can throw another hundred examples!
            2. Nemchinov Vl 18 May 2019 22: 07 New
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              Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

              Assembly and testing complex for gas turbine engines and assemblies (gas turbine engines and gas turbine engines) for offshore programs for the production of ship gas turbine engines. Now our industry will have free hands. GEM for 22350 is only the beginning. Such stands remained after the collapse of the Union only in Ukraine at Zorya-Mashproekt.

              Approximately the same thing, since 2014 it was already necessary to do (in parallel with Rybinsk) on the basis of Metalist Samara, and let's say on Dieselzipservice (that is, a country like Russia should have at least three different enterprises capable of to produce the widest rated power indicators of marine gas turbine engines !!). And there, to establish the production of analogues DT-59, DS-71, DK-59 (as the main product, say "M-S"), and if possible also other M-063, DN-59, DS-77 (say "Dieselzipservms" ) etc. (according to the nominal power indicators of the gas turbine engine) ... Now it is already lost 5 years !!!, and the government of the Russian Federation continues to hope for one gas-turbine engine manufacturing plant (with a nomenclature of only two types of gas-turbine engines)?!?! This very soon could lead to the collapse of paralysis) of the last BOD 1155, and the cruisers 1164 and so on. In addition, the speed of creating PJSC Zvezda-Reductor, gearboxes for marine power plants, also indicates that placing hopes (in terms of creating gearboxes for marine power plants) at one enterprise is at least reckless, if not to be more precise, criminal negligence ?! Drumias in words and in gear construction for the fleet, there should be a serious alternative (addition, if you like) to the monopolist "which doesn’t really itch," PJSC "Star Reducer" ...
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. Aerodrome 17 May 2019 08: 19 New
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              Tan, the redhead, led Putin's hand to the throne. All further questions are meaningless. hi
              1. Astra wild 17 May 2019 17: 09 New
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                Airdrome, in fact, the GDP has a lot of negative things, but it is truer than G. Aliyev, BNE, M.S. and others: they vowed to be faithful to Lenin’s precepts, but kept their oath? And they were not going to ..!
                Perhaps V.V.P. is true due to the fact that he was not in the Central Committee
                1. Alf
                  Alf 17 May 2019 20: 21 New
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                  Quote: Astra wild
                  but he is truthful than G. Aliyev, BNE, M.S. and others: they vowed to be faithful to Lenin’s covenants, but kept the oath? And they were not going to ..!

                  Did he hold back?
          3. Nemchinov Vl 18 May 2019 23: 02 New
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            Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            To date, a turbine has been made, a stand built. The gearbox is ready, now you can assemble the turbine, diesel engine and gearbox at the stand.
            that's just with the speed of creation / assembly of these same gearboxes (P055, but about 6 RP it is better not to stutter at all yet?!), as far as I understand, the trouble is straight?! ... Or am I mistaken ?!
        2. vladcub 17 May 2019 15: 19 New
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          Tatyana, the Chinese do not have their dizil. They simply agreed 12 years ago with MTU and are producing MTU diesel engines. By the way, in Belarus they didn’t do the same thing: “they invented bicycles, but they agreed with Steyr and they release the Steyer engine at home.
          In 90, MTU suggested we set up a release, but we still had a "friendship" with Ukraine. This was in the media at that time.
          1. Tatyana 17 May 2019 16: 05 New
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            What do you think, our country can win a future war with the enemy, if our weapons are sitting with his industrial "needle". I think that for any rational person this is a rhetorical question.

            Brzezinski, the author of the mechanism of modern globalization, counted on this.

            1. vlad106 17 May 2019 16: 33 New
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              Quote: Tatiana
              What do you think, our country can win a future war with the enemy, if our weapons are sitting with his industrial "needle". I think that for any rational person this is a rhetorical question.

              Brzezinski, the author of the mechanism of modern globalization, counted on this.



              Successive destruction of the state:
              - The collapse of the industry;
              -Education;
              -Health;
              The oppression of the Russian ethnic group, etc.
              People continue to be lulled by sweet tales, I remember how before the collapse of the USSR, our (or still not ours) media at the end of the news ended with the phrase: "And do not be afraid of tomorrow ..."
              Union collapsed. Now tackled Russia
              1. Tatyana 17 May 2019 16: 42 New
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                Quote: vladcub
                Tatyana, the Chinese do not have their dizil. They simply agreed 12 years ago with MTU and are producing MTU diesel engines. By the way, in Belarus they didn’t do the same thing: “they invented bicycles, but they agreed with Steyr and they release the Steyer engine at home.
                In 90, MTU suggested we set up a release, but we still had a "friendship" with Ukraine. This was in the media at that time.

                That's it!
                Chinese and Belarusians at least in a country they produce a foreign product! In the event of war, no one will pick up and take out a factory for the production of foreign products from the territory of the PRC and R. Belarus, and these factories / production will in fact continue to work and produce the products they need for the national security of the PRC and R. Belarus.

                And in the Russian version what do we have - with just purchases from abroad from a potential adversary of foreign products?!
                And NOTHING!
                The enemy will simply stop supplying us with the necessary parts for the finished product - and all final production on this will end here!
                1. Astra wild 17 May 2019 17: 24 New
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                  I read that article and there the author claimed that it is better to maintain established partnerships with Ukraine than to deal with the Germans: it will be cheaper
                  1. Tatyana 17 May 2019 20: 42 New
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                    Quote: Astra wild
                    I read that article and there the author argued that it was better to maintain established partnerships with Ukraine than to deal with the Germans: it would be cheaper
                    Not like that at all! For Ukraine - what is it like now?
                    Ukraine is a Russophobic abscess of the "maydanut defeat" in under the external control of Germany and the USA.

                2. vladcub 17 May 2019 18: 21 New
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                  Tatyana, recalled how in 1981 the Soviet Union scolded the author of the "Chinese miracle" Deng Xiaoping for creating "free economic zones." Only young workers work in western factories, the owner sets the length of the working day, the union is banned, and no sick leave exists. Naturally, MTU willingly opened a factory there. Under what conditions did Steyer open an enterprise in Belarus, I don’t know, but they are unlikely to suffer from charity
                  By the way, in 60-70 Mao rushed with the idea of: developing industry based on his own strength, and Dan was against and was accused of being an enemy of the people and living at the promptings of the imperialists.
                  When Mao rushed about the idea of ​​a “great jerk”, we considered this a way to a standstill. I remember in the International Panorama program, they spoke in detail about Dan's "sins" that he was anti-communist.
                  And now the "Chinese miracle" infuriates America
                  1. vladcub 17 May 2019 18: 25 New
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                    Comrades, excuse me, mixed up the dates: 1981 talked about Dan in detail, and the "Free Economic Zones" appeared in China even later
            2. Astra wild 17 May 2019 17: 18 New
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              Tatyana, in general, I agree with you. But they began to invest in America in the Soviet Union under Brezhnev. Glazyev spoke about this in the early 90s
            3. samaravega 18 May 2019 00: 43 New
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              Where does the quote come from, tell me? Of course, he will never be our friend, but the man is not stupid, he must be read.
              1. Astra wild 18 May 2019 15: 27 New
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                Remember what flurry of publications was about the Yavlinsky program: "how to feed the country"? Then Glazyev was active, and now I don’t hear about him. Maybe they are fried with E. T. Gaidar in the same boiler?
      2. Mikhail m 17 May 2019 10: 13 New
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        The authors did not consider the question of what would happen when a cylinder explodes under a pressure of 200 atm, which is quite possible in combat conditions? Not every shell will produce such broads.
      3. Normal ok 17 May 2019 14: 55 New
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        The general conclusion about the need to develop our own industry is obvious. But the article has enough internally conflicting arguments. for example, at the beginning they write:
        According to the authors, a high share of imported equipment in equipping Russian ships and ships in Tsarist times and now is the result of technical and technological backwardness of domestic industry

        Then, just below write the exact opposite:
        specialists are well aware that the technical characteristics of export products, including ships, ships and elements of their power plants, are slightly different (sometimes not for the better) from similar indicators of products intended for domestic use in the country of manufacture.

        That is, Russian industry is behind and cannot, but our equipment is better !?
      4. Nick 18 May 2019 19: 14 New
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        Quote: Deck
        Never mind - this is a simple advertising article from three Ph.D.

        Not without it, of course. But on a number of issues the authors are right.
      5. Trapperxnumx 27 May 2019 09: 34 New
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        Quote: Deck
        Never mind - this is a simple advertising article from three Ph.D.

        I completely agree with your conclusion, especially after reading this "pearl":
        Delivering outdated shipboard equipment abroad, their ships from the beginning of the twentieth century, for example, the UK has already equipped with boiler-turbine installations (KTU) with more efficient technical means. Thus, the power plant of the ship "Dreadnought", which became part of the English fleet in 1906, consisted of 4's Parson steam turbines and 18 of Babcock and Wilcox boilers.

        The dreadnought was a completely revolutionary ship, a new milestone in military shipbuilding, before it (until 1905 of the year until), the British completely set themselves
        triple expansion steam engines (low efficiency, large mass and dimensional characteristics, low-speed, high speed of the crankshaft and others)
        and did not buzz. Although their cars were better than domestic ones.
        And in fact - both Germany and the USA (advanced technical countries of that time) even managed to shove the very same - triple expansion steam engines even on the first analogues of their "dreadnoughts".
    2. Vadim237 17 May 2019 08: 58 New
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      We have to create from scratch - as the previous one is outdated physically and mentally.
    3. Marat79 17 May 2019 19: 18 New
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      The Soviet Union, to a certain extent, was destroyed for this purpose. The USSR plus the Warsaw Pact countries had their own stable economies.
      1. Vadim237 18 May 2019 01: 13 New
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        Sustainable economy - total deficit.
        1. Nick 18 May 2019 19: 21 New
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          Quote: Vadim237
          Sustainable economy - total deficit.

          This is partly true of Vadim, but the deficit began to emerge as a result of Khrushchev’s voluntary reforms in finance and economic management.
  2. lucul 17 May 2019 05: 40 New
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    Correctly stated.
    I read somewhere that the tender for the development of the railway network in the tsarist empire was won by the French, and it was they who designed them. And "built" the same.
    What ultimately happened is that the entire railway network was built by the French from north to south (or from south to north, as you like), and only a tiny number of roads were built from east to west. So that in case of war, it would be impossible to use the railway to transport troops and shells to the western front - that is, it turns out that there is a railroad in the country, as it were, but it does not seem to be militarily.
    This is called hidden sabotage, and not everyone is able to discern it (and there are many such hidden sabotages that led to the collapse of the tsarist empire). Therefore, the admission of foreigners to key points strategically important for the country should be closed. This should also apply to "foreigners" with Russian citizenship.
    1. viktor_ui 17 May 2019 06: 22 New
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      And what a twist on the French. They completed the construction of the declared and approved estimates of the railway network. And the tsarist Russian dignitary, along with the codela of highbrow "apparently legal engineers," the cat should all have correctly technically endorsed it - where did they look ??? Apparently, in the development of the allocated budget to the dimension of your personal pocket ??? The French Railway - saboteurs and pest programmers into the Roskosmosey ... just magical. Or maybe the answer is simple, greedy and stupid thieves steers projects of national importance with the logical final results of a historical scale akin to disasters. Maybe they simply do not see and do not understand the prospects for the development of the sectors and areas entrusted to them by their stupidity ... well, then this is just a rotten system for selecting professional personnel only. True, she is so rotten ... but such a tenacious infection wassat
    2. mark1 17 May 2019 07: 22 New
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      Quote: lucul
      the entire railway network was built by the French from north to south (or from south to north, as you like) and only a tiny number of roads were built from east to west. So that in case of war, it was impossible to use the railway to transport troops and shells to the western front -

      It seems that many people graduated not only from school (where they studied "... something and somehow ...") but also from higher education institutions, there most likely, among other things, they also taught to think. Look on the map for location s.kh. and industrial RI nov RI (the main transport artery is the Volga Mother. also flows from north to south), remember the Crimean War - well, what a diversion! In the western direction it was also enough (during the Second World War it was enough, but everything was built under the “damned” tsarism).
      I have always been amazed by the ability of our people with a high level of basic knowledge shoved into it, it is easy to take all crap on faith
      1. lucul 17 May 2019 09: 20 New
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        In the western direction it was also enough (during the Second World War it was enough, but everything was built under the “damned” tsarism).

        )))))
        "For comparison, the security of potential opponents with roads was as follows:

        a) From the Triple Alliance, 32 railway lines (14 double-track) approached the Russian border, 13 lines (eight double-track) approached the border from the Russian side. This advantage enabled the enemy to concentrate his army almost twice as fast.
        b) The central provinces were connected with the Urals and Siberia with only two bridges across the Volga.
        c) From the west, 10 railways approached the Volga, and only four departed from the Volga to the east of the country.
        d) Arkhangelsk - the only major port in the Russian North by 1913 - had contact with the main network only through a narrow gauge line to Vologda, which had negligible bandwidth.
        e) With the ice-free northern port of Murmansk (until 1917, Romanov-on-Murman) there was no railway connection at the time the war started.
        Meanwhile, potential opponents of Russia (Germany and Turkey) were geographically positioned so that in case of war they reliably and completely blocked all traditional routes of communication through the Black and Baltic Seas and, accordingly, closed export and import. "
        ))))
        1. mark1 17 May 2019 09: 45 New
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          Quote: lucul
          d) Arkhangelsk - the only major port in the Russian North by 1913 - had contact with the main network only through a narrow gauge line to Vologda, which had negligible bandwidth.

          That's it at all - pearl
          .
          Quote: lucul
          "For comparison, the security of potential opponents with roads was as follows:

          Why do we need to compare all this, our railway network provided the normal maneuver with reserves and the mob period we delayed by no means because of the railway. You drive, my friend, a blizzard (not your own) Before you convict, study the problem.
          1. lucul 17 May 2019 10: 16 New
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            Examine the problem before exposing.

            Do you have Russian as your native language ???
            You understand everything literally, like a foreigner.
            The problem is that EVERYTHING that foreigners did not relate to in Russia went to the detriment rather than the good.
            There was once an article where it was mentioned that ours, in captivity, working for the Germans, harmed them in every way possible. That's the way foreigners do - they also harm us in every way possible.
            1. Lannan Shi 17 May 2019 11: 28 New
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              Quote: lucul
              The problem is that EVERYTHING that foreigners did not relate to in Russia went to the detriment rather than the good.

              You see the point. Foreign capital came to the Republic of Ingushetia not “for the good of the country to do”, but to earn money. However, he did not harm, but simply worked. If you are not comfortable with a situation when they don’t want to do things for you, maybe you should stop dreaming about the magic pike, get off the stove and start working yourself?
              And about the railway, which the French saboteurs built "not as they should," with the intent that RI would lose the war. One on one Germany carried France dry. Everyone understood this perfectly. Including the paddling pools themselves. Will they be supported by limes, at the end of the XNUMXth century it was absolutely unclear. And the option is no, it was much more likely than yes. About the intervention of mattresses, there was no talk at all. And the deliberate wrecking of Rosiii, the only ally, is a sophisticated and perverse way of suicide.
              Another question is that France is not that pike from a fairy tale that you dream of. And in one physiognomy to give Russia everything that is necessary for a big war, it physically could not. As I understand it is this "mildness" that is your main complaint against frog eaters?
            2. mark1 17 May 2019 12: 53 New
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              Quote: lucul
              Do you have Russian as your native language ???

              I have yes, but here you have ... a little confuse the concept of "not" and "neither"
              Quote: lucul
              The problem is that EVERYTHING that foreigners did not relate to in Russia went to the detriment rather than the good.

              You can list the shortcomings and merits of foreigners for a long time - this will be a long and pointless conversation. In principle, Lannan Shi answered you well on this subject. But since you started to give some examples, still bother to study the problem first. I repeat - there are no problems with the railway network either then or now - it is 90% the same in directions and the throughput for that time was satisfactory
            3. victor50 17 May 2019 15: 02 New
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              Quote: lucul
              The problem is that EVERYTHING that foreigners did not relate to in Russia went to the detriment rather than the good.

              Question: Where were the Russians at that time, when the foreigners "touched"? In France? Or stupidity did not allow to realize the quality of foreign "touch"? Everyone is to blame, but not ourselves ... From the moon or something we observe what is happening on our territory ?!
    3. Astra wild 17 May 2019 17: 32 New
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      Colleague lucul, spoke about this at the end of the 19th century Witte, when he promoted protectionism. V.I. Lenin criticized Witte's theory
  3. Naval 17 May 2019 06: 21 New
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    A water-jet propulsion device based on an injection pump, and even a destroyer, is either a brilliant breakthrough in shipbuilding or an unscientific fantasy. When I read, I involuntarily looked at the calendar, no, not the first of April. What kind of compressor and high-pressure cylinders are needed to move a ship with a displacement of 5000 tons at a speed of 30 knots?
    1. Aerodrome 17 May 2019 07: 26 New
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      Quote: Naval
      This is what you need to have a compressor and high pressure cylinders
      "... he took off his pants and how he adjusted the sail, and again swept through the waves!" (student folklore)
    2. frog 17 May 2019 08: 20 New
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      Yes, not even a destroyer ..... 400 mares that can drag in the Navy? Admiral fishing boat ??
      And I completely understand you, dear, I first frantically tried to remember the date)))) Three Ph.D. .... Three, this is no longer a victim of the exam and gadgets, this is just a logical conclusion to natural processes ....
      I am already silent about the fact that these three have forgotten to mention "Buzzards", say, on which there was no import. But no more than two-thirds regularly went to the sea, EMNIP, and so on.
      I really didn’t think that the aroma of Petrik would spread on this resource .... Which V.I. ......
      1. Aerodrome 17 May 2019 09: 53 New
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        Quote: frog
        I am already silent about the fact that these three have forgotten to mention "Buzzards", say, on which there was no import. But no more than two-thirds regularly went to the sea, EMNIP, and so on.

        cheat the subject please ..
        1. frog 17 May 2019 22: 42 New
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          To chew completely - this will be a whole book)))) Yes, and without me already chewed many times .... But in short .....
          In the planned Soviet Union everything was planned)))) And theft and losses and idiocy. As an illustration of the latter, something enchanting was invented, namely: generally speaking, normal people put gas turbine engines on devices of this class. But .... Since in the planned economy all the capacities for the production of the corresponding devices were already loaded, and I really wanted to ship, I decided to stick the vocational school. Again, the power was idle lol And again, that very part of the speech that spoils everything ..... Just like that - it’s boring, but the boilers decided to install advanced ones. With them, too, did not go, changed. They put it too advanced, but in a different way))) However, it turned out (suddenly) a little such a misunderstanding .... Some boilers worked with nuclear power plants, where the system is closed, unlike the destroyer. The chemical composition of the boiler water had to be monitored very carefully. Since selective personnel were going to serve the fleet, and the fleet was large, personnel were ...... not very selective. "Bilge Timurtaz Allahverdiyev was sent to the ship by heaven itself"
          In general, the boilers did not go for a long time, and the steamers were constantly being repaired. Something like this ..... Admirals and other big uncles sitting where necessary)))) forget about those who serve with them. And also - how he does it .....
          Although, what am I talking about ....... "In the operational-tactical mission, the destroyer was named the" landing support fire ship ", since it was planned that the ship would operate mainly together with the landing troops. According to OTP, the ship was intended for:

          suppression of small-sized ground targets, as well as anti-airborne defense facilities, accumulations of manpower and military equipment of the enemy;
          fire support of anti-aircraft and anti-aircraft landing assault in the landing area and at the transition by sea;
          the destruction of surface ships and landing craft of the enemy together with other forces of the fleet. "
          1. Alexey RA 20 May 2019 10: 32 New
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            Quote: frog
            However, it turned out (suddenly) a little such a misunderstanding .... Some boilers worked with nuclear power plants, where the system is closed, unlike the destroyer. The chemical composition of the boiler water had to be monitored very carefully. Since selective personnel were going to serve the fleet, and the fleet was large, personnel were ...... not very selective. "Bilge Timurtaz Allahverdiyev was sent to the ship by heaven itself"
            In general, the boilers did not go for a long time, and the steamers were constantly being repaired. Something like this ..... Admirals and other big uncles sitting where necessary)))) forget about those who serve with them. And also - how he does it .....

            What is characteristic, when the very same "Buzzards" were given into Chinese hands, there were no problems with their exploitation in the Middle Kingdom.

            But of course, the boilers are to blame. smile
      2. Vadim237 18 May 2019 01: 15 New
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        Buzzards are those destroyers in which boilers can explode.
  4. parusnik 17 May 2019 08: 08 New
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    in new Russia, it is necessary to re-create this production, which will require considerable time.
    ... Here are the same questions ... Who will create? State or local capital? And again, where are the specialists, not the engineers ... and those who will assemble .. Next, the production will be created on the basis of domestic equipment or imported ... etc.
    1. Astra wild 18 May 2019 14: 06 New
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      And imported equipment is more expensive and not always of high quality
  5. Altona 17 May 2019 08: 23 New
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    As for the type of engine, a moot point. But about their power plants, they are needed. But again, they need to be done in large numbers and not only on warships in order to reduce the cost of production and get rid of childhood diseases (the quantity goes into quality), which means that a civilian fleet is also needed. And this is of course everything. And since you gave up the market, you yourself understand.
  6. Undecim 17 May 2019 08: 57 New
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    Ph.D. I.R. Dubrovin, Ph.D. E. R. Dubrovin, Ph.D. V.N. Gryshchenko
    Real authors are candidates of technical sciences? I do not believe. It is doubtful that they even studied at school.
    The authors believe that the creation of a marine air-water jet power plant (UHECS), the train of which includes, for example, one diesel compressor (domestic production), consisting of a high-pressure air compressor K30A-23 (235 kW / 320 hp, air capacity 600 m³ / h and final air pressure 200 ÷ 400 kg / cm²), driven into rotation by the YaMZ 7514.10-01 diesel engine (277 kW / 375 hp, specific fuel consumption - 208 g / kW * hour) ; high pressure air pipelines; high pressure air cylinders; instrumentation and one / two air-water (s) jet-cavitation (s) water-jet propulsion (s) are currently quite feasible, for example, for small displacement ships, in particular for missile and artillery boats.
    Consider, for example, the project 1241 missile boat. To ensure the economic speed of 13 knots, the boats have two diesel engines each with a capacity of 4000-5000 hp. That is, the total power of the power plant economical course 8000-10000 hp
    Even if we assume a very bad option and assume that the efficiency of the propellers of the missile boat is at the lower limit of 45% and taking into account the power losses in the drive mechanisms, all the same, 13-3200 hp is consumed to provide the ship with a speed of 4000 knots.
    Question. How are three candidates of technical sciences going to provide a similar speed of a rocket boat with an engine power of 375 hp, even if their ship's air-water power plant will have an efficiency of -100%?
    And another question - have candidates of sciences heard about the law of conservation of energy?
    1. Sahalinets 17 May 2019 09: 31 New
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      Yes, too, laughed. How many miracle units will be needed there, especially taking into account the enormous conversion losses in all these compressors, ducts and injectors? Forty pieces? I'm afraid there will not be enough space in the case, and if they squeeze in, the cutter will simply drown ...
    2. Undecim 17 May 2019 12: 00 New
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      Interestingly, minus one of the authors put?
  7. Vladimir1155 17 May 2019 09: 15 New
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    first you need to clean up your minds, then abandon globalism, if you lower taxes and stop paying tribute to the world behind the scenes, then all industry will revive and begin to crowd out foreign competitors, and now there is a special tax on Russians, Russian obligations to pay it at any cash desk of any store, and the Russian Federation itself pays it to foreigners, because they are foreigners (VAT invented exclusively for the American colonies). That is, it is more profitable to buy any product abroad than to do it yourself. For example, there is wheat in the Russian Federation, but it’s more profitable to buy it in Canada and get a VAT refund from Canadians, and Canadians are more profitable to buy it in Russia and get a VAT refund from the Russian Federation .... and Americans don’t pay VAT to anyone, but they get it from everyone. they like it ..
  8. for
    for 17 May 2019 09: 18 New
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    Quote: Tatiana
    And yet, while in power in the Russian Federation there will be such executors of the global democracy plan as “effective managers” Chubais, Kudrins, Medvedevs, Nabiulins, etc. “marketers” are adherents of world globalization,

    And who appoints them.
  9. Operator 17 May 2019 09: 28 New
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    The analysis of ship power plants is an important thing, but much more important is the correct approach to the purpose / design of the ships.

    For example, the British naval forces in WWII massively escorted convoys in the ocean zone on destroyers with a displacement of 1 (one) thousand tons and did not buzz. And now the minimum displacement of the surface ship of the far sea zone is approaching 10 (ten) thousand tons. On the fig, when there are multi-purpose submarines with cruise missiles on board that can drown any NK without approaching it at 1000 km?

    We do not need to arrange dances with tambourines and portray missile defense ships from destroyers, knowing full well that in the event of a nuclear-missile conflict, all this “missile defense” will be covered with a copper basin - just a few high-altitude nuclear explosions along the routes of the ICBM and BRSD ha by radar jamming by electromagnetic by pulses.

    Small displacement surface ships are needed only in peacetime to patrol the water / economic zone (~ 1000 tons) and escort ships supplying expeditionary forces involved in local conflicts (~ 4000 tons). With all the rest multi-purpose submarines and narrow-purpose NPA will cope.

    Regarding the NK armament, it is not necessary to engage in sado-masochism - patrol vessels are sufficiently equipped with means to combat guided munitions (torpedoes and rockets) in the form of small-caliber antitrust guns and short-range anti-aircraft missiles, since the task of fighting carriers with them is quite capable of the coastal missile systems for targeing FOSS and air defense radar. Escort ships, in addition to the means to combat guided ammunition, are sufficient to be equipped with universal silos (in a reasonable amount), which will allow for the use of anti-ship missiles, long-range anti-aircraft missiles and torpedoes.

    Modern means of mine defense now look like remote-controlled NLAs with a displacement of the order of hundreds of kilograms, which can be placed in almost any reasonable quantity on any NK, starting from powerboats, so they may not be mentioned at all in a decent society.

    Regarding the topic of the article (power plants), due to the great progress of domestic liquid metal reactors used on land (Peresvet), in the air (Petrel) and at sea (Poseidon), it is naturally necessary to resolve the issue of the total use of these YASU for patrol and escort NC. After that, the fleet can forever forget about the existence of a GSU on heat engines and what is autonomy with respect to fuel.
  10. DPN
    DPN 17 May 2019 09: 31 New
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    It’s ridiculous even to read the reasoning of the slaves, as the upper classes will say so. Is there bread, is there anything else you want to see ?. Somewhere in the school curriculum it was written: the mob does not dare, have their own judgments.
  11. Terran 17 May 2019 09: 36 New
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    1. The article, in fact, proposes a replacement not of a power plant, but of a propulsive complex.
    2. If we take into account law of energy conservation, then the proposed replacement of the scheme "Diesel - shaft with screw - Thrust (pushing force)" with the proposed "Diesel or diesel generator - compressor - modified water jet - Thrust" should produce a similar final thrust.
    Those. The initial GEM (in this case the same diesel engine) should be similar in power, adjusted for the difference in the efficiency of further conversion.
    3. The authors not only do not solve the problem posed by their own article, but they also do not reveal any comparative parameters of their propulsive complex, which is sure of an innovative and noteworthy, in comparison with the standard screw circuit. What is the efficiency of the resulting propulsion? Is it higher than that of the propeller when a compressor is added to the line? - there a lot of energy leaves empty heating due to compression. Or maybe vibration / noise / performance ... nothing said.
    4. The issue of problems with diesel engines is known. Thanks for the historical information. No solution has been given. Paying attention to your interesting development of a propulsion without communicating any parameters looks like a banal inappropriate advertisement.
  12. Lapunevsky 17 May 2019 11: 05 New
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    In 1998-2000. I was engaged in the supply of food and some other supplies on about. Sakhalin from the mainland, to military units and brigades of PSCR, to Nevelsk, Kholmsk and about. Shikotan. And it was possible to visit the border ships of the time. I remember there were only three types there - Project 10410, project 205П (not running, were tied up at the pier as training barracks) and so on. 745, more like large icebreaking-type tugs, very slow (up to 13 nodes, max. ). I used to go mainly on 10410 projects and several times I had the opportunity to go to Shikotan from Nevelsk and back to 745 Avenue Transbaikalia. On the way, the crew stopped several Japanese schooners and seiners for inspection. I was taken a couple of times with the inspection team. And then I saw all the wretchedness of equipping the MCHPV ships, comparing it with equipping rusty fishing trawlers and schooners of Japan ... There were two radar stations of surface-to-air detection operating on the Transbaikalia, working out of turn. Namely, "Naiad-M". This is such a huge iron box above the person’s belt (2 units) on the HCG, with a dirty green color with a round screen, on which a casing with an observation slot is put on during the day. And there it’s only to understand what is where and how hard it is. A lot of interference, ripples and stuff. And somewhere below the PCG on the left side there was a room where there was a huge number of devices in iron yellow boxes - and all this was buzzing and buzzing. Air targets flying above 600 meters these stations did not see. The detection range of schooner-type surface targets did not exceed 15 km. And here I saw what stands in the logs of Japanese old rusty schooners and trawlers .... The hefty color LCD screens of the radar station, on which colored marks, without any hindrance, marked various goals. And above each - the name or code of the target. The very same equipment (devices in niches) is ten times smaller than what stood at the Trans-Baikal PSCR. And the most important thing is that “Zabaikalye” Starpom confirmed that these Japanese stations see Russian PSCRs much earlier than they are, which allows poachers to run in time and even avoid detection by border ships of the FSB of the Russian Federation. It was then that everyone kept saying in one voice - we would have such stations on PCNR ... So the USSR, Russia have always lagged behind and very much from the leading world powers in terms of electronics and various high-tech systems. And now - I think the same thing, although things are better still than in 90's. And without imported modern computer and other electronic equipment, the Russian Armed Forces cannot cope with the lag in aircraft equipment, ships, and so on. This is an unfortunate fact.
    1. The seventh 17 May 2019 11: 40 New
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      The sadness of the fact is not that there will never be an imported ECB in the interests of its own army, aviation, navy and economy, but only that there is no desire to have an adequate own ECB ..)
    2. Terran 17 May 2019 11: 50 New
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      Specifically, in the example you cited, this is no lag, and here are the explanations:
      1. When developing a military project, equipment that only has a VP and which is modern on design start to have data on this equipment that should be taken into account in the project. Further, the period of designing a warship is much longer than the period of designing a civilian, the period of construction is also, the period of testing and delivery also. And so it always turns out, ceteris paribus, that the equipment for the commissioned ship is somewhat inferior to the equipment being introduced at the same time on a civilian ship.
      2. For radio navigation equipment, especially at that time - its obsolescence went very quickly in a short time. It’s now the usual navigational marine radars have already physically bumped into the radio horizon and there is not much difference between them in the main parameters, now there are additional gadgets that do not increase the efficiency so much (screening of wave fronts, speed vector indicators, rendering of dissolving traversed paths of targets with tail adjustment) " etc.)
      3. Modernization with the replacement of equipment on the ship and on a frequent vessel - this is heaven and earth! For the military, see clause 1 with all the approvals, and a private trader may not even have to add it to the project to buy the “latest product” at the market and install it on his own, specifically with a modern navigation radar, this is quite simple.
      4. For fishermen, sonar equipment is their bread, and they will not skimp on it. For poachers, the radar is in addition freedom, and therefore they also will not skimp on this and buy a “novelty” as soon as they appear and they will always find the money for it.
      And for this reason, on the new trawlers under construction now, which are built under production quotas, not only radio navigation, but echo sounders and sonars such that the minesweepers under construction pr.12700 would envy.
      1. Lapunevsky 17 May 2019 12: 05 New
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        Yes, in all that you wrote - you are right. Can not argue. But still the facts - the thing is also not disputable. And this backwardness of warships from private owners in terms of equipment - something needs to be done with this, if only to protect our water resources from poachers.
  13. Senior seaman 17 May 2019 11: 29 New
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    There were enough examples in the history of the Russian Navy. equipping warships with mechanisms, devices and weapons of foreign manufacture.

    Since at that time steam power plants (CSPs) were the most developed, during the execution of the 1895 shipbuilding program of the year, the ships of the Imperial Fleet of Russia were equipped with CSPs of foreign production, including British triple expansion steam engines with Yarrow steam boilers (shipbuilding company Yarrou Limited), also English Yarrow triple-expansion steam engines with Russian-made licensed French steam boilers Belleville.

    Most ships (the Oslyabya battleship, the Almaz cruiser, the Pearl cruiser, the Aurora cruiser, the Prince Suvorov battleship, the Orel battleship, the Sisoi the Great battleship, etc.), built according to the 1895 shipbuilding program of the year, participated in Tsushima battle in May 1905 year.

    What is that dream of reason? As I understand it, ships with imported steam-powered plants are listed? Oh well.
    The battleship Oslyabya - Baltic Shipyard.
    cruiser "Almaz" - generally built entirely on the BZ.
    the cruiser Aurora - like the rest of the "goddesses" - the Franco-Russian plant. Imported from him (the factory) only the name, everything else was done on the spot.
    "Prince Suvorov" - all the knowledge base.
    Borodino - French-Russian.
    "Great Sisoy" ... 1) what is the relation of the battleship incorporated in the 1891 year to the 1895 program of the year? 2) The machines on it of the Baltic factory.
    1. frog 17 May 2019 20: 00 New
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      My respect, colleague !!! This opus is not a dream of reason at all, it is generally something indescribable (but, however, not a baobab)))) It's just Petrik 2.0 with the corresponding, so to speak, argumentation. Ph.D. may not know the story))), but, extracting from himself labor, as be scientific, he can search for information. More precisely, he is obliged if he is exactly that candidate. But here I have a baaaalsh question, for how would I imagine the “Lightning” or the “Firefly” with the mentioned units ............
  14. lopvlad 17 May 2019 12: 02 New
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    Import "stuffing" of Russian ships


    what a long ode to the lack of domestic engines for several types of surface ships. The problem of engines is relevant for most countries of the world.
    Do authors of the article consider, for example, the USA, which buy RD-180 engines in Russia and launch spacecraft into space as a technologically backward country? I think definitely not.
    So why should we consider Russia as backward, which has similar problems but already with engines for surface ships.
    1. dgonni 17 May 2019 12: 34 New
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      Because mattresses have their own engines for other rockets. They buy RD-180 for the reason that RD won the competition for atlases. If Musk unfolds, and it unfolds, then the atlases will go to waste and you can forget about selling engines.
      1. lopvlad 17 May 2019 13: 39 New
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        Quote: dgonni
        They buy RD-180 for the reason that RD won the competition for atlases


        they buy for one single reason, simply the lack of their counterparts to the characteristics of the RD-180. For the same reason, we buy foreign engines for their surface ships.

        "If Musk turns around"

        it will take decades to fine-tune its "crafts", and the Pentagon needs to put the load into space here and now. So, in the next 5 years, Americans will definitely buy 180 RD engines.
        Vaunted mattresses, for example, are not able to produce main caliber weapons (cannons) for their Abrams tank and for many decades they have been buying it from the Germans and putting it on their tank. But something from American experts has no articles in the style of "everything is lost. Abrams stands on tanks German cannon. "

        As international experience has shown in replacing foreign components, it is most difficult to replace iron.
        For example, Russia is currently the only country that does not experience fundamental problems with engines for space rockets. In China and the USA, there are these problems, I am silent about the rest of the countries.

        It takes a decade to replace foreign engines for ships. Russia, however, took up import substitution less than 5 years ago, but there are already serious progress and I think in the next 5 years we will replace the missing models.
        1. victor50 17 May 2019 15: 20 New
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          Quote: lopvlad
          But something from American experts there are no articles in the style of "everything is lost. There is a German gun on Abrams tanks."

          So in Germany, the Maidan is not planned! request Our strategists are on the Belarusian chassis, and in my opinion, we don’t really bother about this ?! You, citing the example of the facts of individual coincidences, as a whole distorted the situation. But we do not have engines, it turns out, and no one is going to supply them to us, it seems.
        2. Nemchinov Vl 18 May 2019 22: 49 New
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          Quote: lopvlad
          It takes a decade to replace foreign engines for ships. Russia, however, took up import substitution less than 5 years ago, but there are already serious progress and I think in the next 5 years we will replace the missing models.

          To do this, it was necessary from 2014 (if not earlier, that is, where did the SVR and the GRU look, and why didn’t they warn / warn the government ?!) to rely not only on the Saturn Rybinsk NGO, but to create two or three at once a plant for the manufacture of a wide range of marine gas turbine engines (2-3 types of gas turbine engines according to the power rating at each manufacturer). I pointed out an example with a comment a little higher ... And the same thing (if not the main problem) is the creation of an enterprise manufacturing ship gearboxes for marine power plants, because PJSC Zvezda-Reductor, with its speed of creating / mastering new gearboxes, is very similar to the hero of the once popular television program "weak link" ?!
  15. dgonni 17 May 2019 12: 29 New
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    Here are the authors and muddied lol . Instead of continuing to work on gas turbines and diesel engines, they offer some sort of canoe with an unknown propulsive coefficient and an indefinite emphasis as an alternative. And the fact that any boat with such a mover will be heard by the enemy’s submarines over miles and will remain deaf and blind in terms of lighting the underwater situation, so the authors are not bothered. Lish would shove his idea.
  16. Tests 17 May 2019 12: 30 New
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    mark1, dear, what is the pearl? In the 1 World main cargo area of ​​the Arkhangelsk port - Bakaritsa. There was a narrow gauge railway from Vologda to Isakogorka. There were no bridges across the Northern Dvina. The cargo area Savings earned only in World War II, the railway to it is still called Papaninskaya in Arkhangelsk. I.D. Papanin was appointed in the autumn of 1941 to lead the ports of Murmansk, Arkhangelsk and Molotovsk, his post was then called - I won’t remember ... The railway from Obozerskaya station to Belomorsk station was laid in the Great Patriotic War. The Finns of the White Sea Canal were cut, Petrozavodsk was occupied in 1941. Karelia and the Murmansk region did not have a railway station. communications with the rest of the country .... Yes, and today from Obozerskaya to Arkhangelsk, Severodvinsk and Nenoksy, the railway is not electrified single-track. All trains, both passenger and fast, stand from Arkhangelsk and Severodvinsk to Obozerskaya for about 30 minutes - the diesel locomotive is changed to an electric locomotive.
  17. 16112014nk 17 May 2019 13: 56 New
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    Stalin once said about L.Z. Mehlis: "Can the Mehlis be appointed to creative affairs? Is there anything to destroy, smash, destroy - it’s suitable for this."
    Now the collective "mehlis" in the person of Chubais, Siluanov, Nabiulina, etc., is exactly what is doing this.
  18. vladcub 17 May 2019 16: 00 New
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    Quote: lucul
    Correctly stated.
    I read somewhere that the tender for the development of the railway network in the tsarist empire was won by the French, and it was they who designed them. And "built" the same.
    What ultimately happened is that the entire railway network was built by the French from north to south (or from south to north, as you like), and only a tiny number of roads were built from east to west. So that in case of war, it would be impossible to use the railway to transport troops and shells to the western front - that is, it turns out that there is a railroad in the country, as it were, but it does not seem to be militarily.
    This is called hidden sabotage, and not everyone is able to discern it (and there are many such hidden sabotages that led to the collapse of the tsarist empire). Therefore, the admission of foreigners to key points strategically important for the country should be closed. This should also apply to "foreigners" with Russian citizenship.

    In fact, the first railways in the Republic of Ingushetia were built by the Americans. And regarding the fact that most of the railway lines stretched from North to South, it was traditionally regarded as a positive example. And Soviet historiography considered that there were too many railway lines in the western direction, and in the Far East there was only one branch.
  19. Polente the Wanderer 17 May 2019 16: 46 New
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    Ships were received in this form and with the same characteristics as ordered. If you didn’t know, then you had to pay money for consultations (with third parties).
    As for the proposal of the three Ph.D. - if you offer, then first calculate at least in draft form and submit your project to state authorities, if you are convinced.
    And then get the money for the project, then develop it for many years, then say, well, it didn’t work ...
    1. LeonidL 18 May 2019 02: 28 New
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      Most likely, that’s the calculation, they say, look at the bureaucrats, the public is already worried - chase the loot to us for Tukhachevsky’s ideas!
  20. ABM
    ABM 17 May 2019 19: 46 New
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    Russia will never be able to compete with NATO on the high seas, and under no circumstances! therefore, there is nothing to strive for the creation of the "Big Fleet" - to give the sailors something, so that they would not be offended that they soared in their naval schools, otherwise - as far as possible ... given that to build a ship under several launchers any missiles are a hundred times more expensive than re-equipping several trucks for the same number of launchers with the same missiles
  21. lucul 17 May 2019 19: 50 New
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    Quote: Lannan Shi
    Quote: lucul
    The problem is that EVERYTHING that foreigners did not relate to in Russia went to the detriment rather than the good.

    You see the point. Foreign capital came to the Republic of Ingushetia not “for the good of the country to do”, but to earn money. However, he did not harm, but simply worked. If you are not comfortable with a situation when they don’t want to do things for you, maybe you should stop dreaming about the magic pike, get off the stove and start working yourself?
    And about the railway, which the French saboteurs built "not as they should," with the intent that RI would lose the war. One on one Germany carried France dry. Everyone understood this perfectly. Including the paddling pools themselves. Will they be supported by limes, at the end of the XNUMXth century it was absolutely unclear. And the option is no, it was much more likely than yes. About the intervention of mattresses, there was no talk at all. And the deliberate wrecking of Rosiii, the only ally, is a sophisticated and perverse way of suicide.
    Another question is that France is not that pike from a fairy tale that you dream of. And in one physiognomy to give Russia everything that is necessary for a big war, it physically could not. As I understand it is this "mildness" that is your main complaint against frog eaters?

    Another hutspa pulled up)))
    From the category of the necessity of life of the parasite on the body of the carrier.
  22. Alexey RA 17 May 2019 20: 02 New
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    Common shortcomings of the main power plants (GEM) of domestic ships of the early twentieth century, equipped with imported equipment, were the operational problems of boilers (low parameters of steam produced, low productivity, coal overuse, soot accumulation in boilers, boiler overheating, the formation of difficult to remove tar deposits in the furnace, flue gas emissions from the furnace to the boiler room and others) and triple expansion steam engines

    Common shortcomings of the main power plants (GEM) of domestic ships of the early twentieth century were the savings in the preparation of machine commands and the lack of personnel skills in operating modern boilers. For the training of military personnel was carried out on old ships even with fire tube boilers - and such trained mountain mechanics managed to kill even the eternal Bellevilles (Victory and Oslyabya) in peacetime during the transition to the Far East.
  23. rayruav 17 May 2019 20: 13 New
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    For the information of experts, Belleville boilers were used by the whole world; at that time they were at the level of world standards and Russia fully mastered their production
    1. LeonidL 18 May 2019 02: 26 New
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      "Experts" do not bother with such trifles.
  24. Revolver 17 May 2019 21: 10 New
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    Ukraine should for gas? They have no money? Let them pay in kind, i.e. controlling stakes of the same Zorya-Mashproekt, Nikolaev Shipyards, and Yuzhmash, and Motor Sich, and the Kharkov Tank Plant, and Antonov are also useful. And then simple capitalism: the master-master, produces what he wants, sells to anyone he wants. Moreover, Ukraine itself does not seem to need industry, they see their place in the form of Ceyevropa, i.e. agrarian raw materials appendage of Europe itself.
  25. VladGTN 17 May 2019 22: 52 New
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    The author of Gridasov?
  26. LeonidL 18 May 2019 02: 25 New
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    "According to the authors, a high share of imported equipment in equipping Russian ships and ships during the tsarist era and now is the result of the technical and technological backwardness of domestic industry, caused, among other things, by a misunderstanding of the role and place of the technical component in the economy of our state, and, therefore, and underestimation of the importance of scientific, technical, engineering and working personnel in Russian society. " - An amazing discovery in depth! And who destroyed Soviet science, the system of training qualified personnel at all levels from designers and scientists to professional workers?

    "Is it possible to avoid equipping ships and vessels of the Navy with imported equipment? According to the authors, this is possible when replacing diesel, diesel-gas-turbine and gas-gas-turbine power plants with other types of power plants, for example, air-water-jet ones." - Very interesting opinion of the authors. How do the most learned peasants imagine this? Stop the fleet, start pulling out old power plants and immediately start developing new ones? And the fleet park under them? What about the documentation? And how successful, if at all, will they pass? And why "for example"? there are other options? Can it be easier and cheaper to restore the production of spent and familiar to the Fleet EC, than to engage in the Kurchevsky guns and Tukhachevsky ideas again?
  27. mik193 18 May 2019 10: 27 New
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    And what have you been doing for 25 years before?
  28. iouris 18 May 2019 23: 15 New
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    Consciousness defines being. The filling of the ships is the same as the filling of consciousness.
  29. ser56 21 May 2019 18: 30 New
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    "standing at piers and factory walls, not going out to sea."
    and where could they go in the winter of 41-42 in the Baltic? And even in the summer of 43? request
  30. leonid-zherebtcov 22 May 2019 03: 54 New
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    I absolutely agree ... and indeed the return to the "Stone Age" before 1917 was somehow already tired ...
  31. aleks1673 25 May 2019 22: 38 New
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    the impression is that the author lives somewhere in the 50s of the 20th century! dependence ! overpayment! Yes, just the star "aviation" "motors" do not plow and that's it! can you argue or not, but a couple of hours at full and pi .... and now grow together a lot of foreign cars in the sense of car? and what repair problems are creepy? all transplanted to Lada? to hell! Lada bent! and parts that would be known the whole world produces! to the very brands MTU, MAN, etc. so buy is not a problem! I PR our! just the quality - gov ...... but they don’t want to raise it - they need to invest money, but they will devour it on import substitution! only at sea on their gov ... don't go out! therefore, they prefer to import border - imto for no way out - kirdyk !!!!! even the Chinese - in the sense of engines - are better! since in the 21st century developed and not in the 20th!
  32. Alexey Petrovichev 26 September 2019 11: 20 New
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    Some kind of nonsense. Moscow was blown away at a speed of 30 knots. Ships with foreign steam engines always went better than with a machine of our production. The sending of the article is correct, incorrect justification