Soviet options "Uzi"

The Israeli submachine gun Uzi is today a recognizable brand in the global small-arms market. weapons. The weapon is known to a wide range of ordinary people, even those who are not fond of this field, and it can compete with the Kalashnikov assault rifle and the American M16 rifle and their derivatives absolutely precisely for recognition. In many respects, this is connected not only with the characteristic appearance of the submachine gun, but also with its frequent appearance in various films and computer games.

Submachine gun "Uzi" chambered for 9x19 mm Parabellum was named in honor of its developer - Uziel Galya. The weapon was created in 1948 year and adopted for use in 1954, since this model is produced by Israel Military Industries concern, having survived a lot of changes and upgrades, but retaining the worldwide recognizable layout - a barrel that attaches to the barrel . Today, it is Israel’s Uzi that is the reference model of such a layout, but even before it appeared in a number of countries, among which was the Soviet Union, similar models of small arms were assembled. In the USSR, these were submachine guns of Shuklin, Rukavishnikov and Pushkin, which were created during the years of the Great Patriotic War.

Prerequisites for the emergence of submachine guns appeared in the years of the First World War, when the question of raising the firepower of infantry divisions became quite acute. The solution was one - the saturation of troops with automatic weapons. The first way to solve the problem was the development of automatic rifles. But indeed, working samples of such weapons appeared only in the second half of the 1930-ies, before that they simply could not come to replace the magazine rifles, at best, being used only partially, while fully automatic rifles became mass weapons only in 1940-e years At the same time, the need for troops in light automatic weapons did not disappear anywhere. Therefore, the designers turned to the creation of automatic weapons under the pistol cartridge. The first such models were designed in the years of the First World War and at the same time they received the name which established itself for them - submachine guns.

Submachine gun Uzi

In this case, submachine guns were never considered as a substitute for rifles, it was a complementary weapon built into the infantry infantry weapon system. Mainly due to the low power of the pistol bullet and the short range of fire. Submachine guns increased the power of infantry fire at close range, were indispensable in assault operations, were excellent for scouts, paratroopers, and also went to the armament of crews of various combat vehicles, as they had smaller dimensions than rifles.

The history of the appearance of "Uzi"

By the beginning of World War II, the submachine gun was finally formed as a portable automatic infantry weapon for an infantryman, which allowed continuous continuous machine gun fire with pistol cartridges. The effective range was low and did not exceed 200 meters, but for close combat this was more than enough. During the Second World War, various models of pistols and machine guns were massively used by warring countries, while work continued on the creation of new models of such weapons. It was during the war years in the USSR that works were going on to create models of submachine guns, resembling the layout of the famous “Uzi” all over the world today.

It can be noted here that at the dawn of the formation of its own armed forces, Israel was experiencing problems with various types of weapons, including small arms. The Israeli army was armed with many models of weapons produced in different countries, including numerous German, English, American and Soviet-made submachine guns. At a certain stage, the MP40 submachine gun was used as a regular weapon for all types of troops. However, this weapon was technically difficult and expensive, so by the end of the 1940-s in Israel, work began on developing its own sample of a submachine gun that would not be inferior to the MP40 in efficiency, but was simpler, adaptable and adapted to local production conditions and available machine park.

As a result, the Israeli engineer Uziel Gal presented his own vision of such weapons to the military. In terms of layout and appearance, the novelty was in many ways a repetition of the Czechoslovak submachine gun Sa. 23, which was developed by designer Y. Holechekom in 1948, and already in 1949, was launched into mass production. The Czech model was intended primarily for paratroopers and differed advanced at the time the scheme. At the same time, it is not known whether Gal was familiar with the Czechoslovak development, and even more so with the Soviet prototypes that had been tested for five years before the Czech submachine gun.

Czechoslovak Sa submachine gun. 25, from model Sa. 23 was distinguished by the presence of a folding shoulder rest

Soviet submachine guns

Back in 1942, in the USSR, tests of a Shuklin design submachine gun with a similar layout began. Unfortunately, the images of this model of small arms did not reach us, but the description and the GAU test report remained. The discovery of these models for the general public is largely related to the activities of the small arms researcher and historian Andrey Ulanov. Creating a new submachine gun, Comrade Shuklin was guided by the following ideas: he hoped to create a sample of small arms that would be portable and comfortable with constant wear, would be light and replaced personal defense weapons, which were used as revolvers and pistols. main qualities of the existing submachine guns.

The Soviet designer-gunsmith embodied his idea in the form of a model with a free gate, while to ensure the stated qualities of portability and lightness and to bring the weapon closer to the pistols, Shuklin used a bolt that bore on the barrel, and he also minimized the stroke of the bolt (to 40 mm). Using this scheme, the designer received a fairly massive bolt - 0,6 kg, but the total length of the weapon was only 345 mm, and the barrel length - 260 mm. Neither the general view of this submachine gun, nor the drawings of the model have reached our days. But according to the description that has been preserved, it can be stated that, in addition to the bolt that runs to the barrel, there was also a magazine that was inserted into the grip of the weapon. The model was certainly interesting, but not for the 1942 year, when the situation at the front was extremely tense, and GAU was just not up to the implementation of pilot projects and their revision to mass production.

The following deficiencies identified were listed in the Gauk’s review of the Shuklin submachine gun: 1) Complicated manufacturing technology, the bolt and barrel, due to their configuration, required a large number of turning and milling (especially) jobs from workers; 2) difficulties in obtaining the necessary accuracy of the fight with a small weapon weight; 3) the high sensitivity of the presented submachine gun to pollution, since sand and dust between the barrel and the shutter caused delays when firing, the same was confirmed for the sample of the Rukavishnikov submachine gun. Given the identified deficiencies in the GAU, it was considered impractical to further develop the presented model.

Submachine gun Rukavishnikov

In the folded position, the butt plate of the butt could serve as an additional handle to hold the weapon.

In the same 1942, a model of a Rukavishnikov design submachine gun was tested at GAU. Apparently, the model has been preserved to our time and today is in St. Petersburg in the funds of the famous Military History Museum of Artillery, Engineers and Communications. The submachine gun stood out for its round-shaped receiver and the shoulder rest forward. As in the model of Shuklin, the shop was also inserted into the handle, which made the models look like ordinary pistols. The second-hand hold handle and forearm on the Rukavishnikov model were missing. The fate of this sample was the same as that of the Shuklin submachine gun. The commission found the weapon difficult to manufacture, noted the low manufacturability of the model. The sensitivity of the submachine gun to pollution was also noted, leading to delays in firing.

Already in the year 1945, the USSR returned to promising ideas from 1942 more. The result of rethinking the previous work was a new submachine gun designed by Pushkin. In the GAU report, a short shutter (45 mm) and a magazine inserted into the handle were noted for this model. The submachine gun itself was distinguished by the presence of a vented barrel casing and a muzzle brake. The stock is made in the form of a shoulder rest, it was collapsible. The new submachine gun was more compact and lightweight than mass-produced by the Soviet industry PPP. However, the weight gain of the Sudaev submachine gun was not so straightforward. As noted by Andrei Ulanov, in many ways, this gain was achieved by reducing the mass of the shutter, which lost 165 grams compared to the famous PPP shutter. With the reduced mass of the shutter, the Pushkin submachine gun stood out for its rate of fire - up to 1040 rounds per minute against the 650 of the model Soudaev. And here the high rate of fire combined with the light bolt was a bad combination. The measurements showed that he came to the extreme rear position immediately four times faster than on the Soudaev submachine gun, while the shutter speed was 7,9 m / s.

It was difficult to speak about some kind of reliability, survivability and durability of a system with similar indicators. Doubts testers appeared immediately and only confirmed during firing trials. There were no complaints about the submachine gun when shooting single shots, but automatic fire immediately revealed all the problems of the weapon. The extreme rate of fire did not allow making more 2-3 shots, there were delays, misalignment and skipping of cartridges were recorded. Another problem emerged, the valve did not withstand such loads and began to collapse, small cracks were noted on it even before the tests, after the cracks became only more. From the set of characteristics, it was decided to suspend work on this project, the GAU report noted that obtaining a workable weapon model and ensuring the required survivability of the bolt with this design is unlikely.

Pushkin submachine gun

Although the Soviet submachine guns Shuklin and Rukavishnikov did not pass the GAU tests and received negative conclusions, the very fact of the appearance of similar models of small arms and the layout chosen by the designers cannot be ignored. Bringing submachine guns in wartime conditions was a difficult task, but the layout itself was 100% correct, which was later confirmed by life itself. A bolt that runs to the barrel, a magazine located in the control handle, a folding butt - all this after the war will be embodied in the Czech submachine gun Sa. 23 and its derivatives, and a little later at the most famous to date representative of this layout scheme - the Israeli "Uzi".

Information sources:
https://gunsforum.com
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/history_of_weapons
https://www.kalashnikov.ru
http://hisgun.ru
Open source materials

Comments

[Major_Vortex]

The degradation of Soviet military small arms began when they began to make forcedly double-row magazines without rebuilding to hand-held small arms, which do not allow to shoot accurately and at a sufficiently high rate (and in automatic mode). They began to make massively slanting weapons for the army, and everything: pistols, machine guns, self-loading "sniper" rifles.
Illiterate people who introduced this stupid rule would be good to retire and oblivion, because the army for generations received oblique weapons, became less protected, and these are mountains of corpses in the war. The 21st century, and we have all two-row shops without rebuilding even in pistols, and in the latest weapons this error of technological progress is also forced on all samples. Instead of improving the stores with rebuilding and the central supply of a cartridge from the store, which do not open the weapon left-right when shooting and are much more accurate for self-loading and automatic weapons.
In World War II, Soviet weapons still had stores with a central supply of ammunition, and the Soviet Union even defeated a rather simplified but still acceptable accuracy weapon, such as PPSh, TT pistol, etc. Such a store in those years was still quite imperfect and unreliable, sensitive to pollution.
But today it is not a problem to release a smoothly tapering neck of such a store with rearrangement of cartridges in a row not with smooth inner side faces along which the cartridges slide, and which, when dirty, block the supply of the cartridge from the magazine, but make such a design of the tapering neck so that the cartridges in the tapering neck moved along the protruding inward small ribs of a triangular profile with a small radius at the apex, protruding inward from the side faces of the neck. Such a neck will be self-cleaning if garbage gets there and in terms of reliability, such a store with a rebuild will approach a good two-row store without rebuild. Smooth edges are easily clogged and everything is clear with them - this is the last century in arms.

Such a small muck as a two-row store without rebuilding does not have any reasonable technical solutions to the problem, to eliminate the nods of the weapon alternately left and right before each subsequent shot, which interfere with accurate shooting and reduce the rate of aimed fire.

I also looked at the best, very expensive, Western samples of hand-held small arms with double-row magazines without rebuilding. All of them swings when shooting left and right, even in very well-filled and trained hands of experienced shooters, and knocks down the front sight. And this in fact means that the bullet does not fly at the target from such a weapon, but to the left or right of the target. Or you need to stop the weapon completely every time before shooting, aim and only then shoot, which will take much longer and the chance of getting a bullet in the stomach from the enemy to the shooter will increase many times over. The automatic fire mode in such weapons is always pouring cartridges with a spread to the left and right, when even the ancient PPSh in automatic fire mode holds the front sight exactly, and if the congenital design flaws associated with the not very successful design of the shutter are eliminated in the PPSh, then the old PPSh will shoot at accuracy of any modern sample of automatic weapons, even very expensive and "high-precision", but with a two-row magazine without rebuilding.

It's time to tie up with gagging and frivolity in the design of small arms, and begin to make good, and reliable stores with rebuilding and the central supply of the cartridge. With oblique weapons, a soldier is a target in battle, not a warrior.

[dumkopff]

Strictly speaking, your comment goes more into the spam category, or rather, even pathology. There is an overvalued idea, there is a desire to convey it to everyone and everyone. And completely out of place.
And about the rebuilding and the central feed was already here: "Why not a glock? Because a store" dated February 1, 2019 (https://topwar.ru/153332-pochemu-ne-glok-potomu-chto-magazin-proshu-ne -menjat-nazvanie-stati.html). Here's Wamu there.

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: dumkopff

And about the rebuilding and the central feed was already here: "Why not a glock? Because a store" dated February 1, 2019 (https://topwar.ru/153332-pochemu-ne-glok-potomu-chto-magazin-proshu-ne -menjat-nazvanie-stati.html). Here's Wamu there.

Stupid article misleading readers. I read it a couple of days ago. The author of the article justifies the illiterate technical solution that all Soviet-made, and later Russian, weapons made oblique even in comparison with the samples of the first half of the 20th century, manufactured in the USSR on a more primitive technological and scientific base, leads stupid arguments and exposes an easily solved problem as the cornerstone , because of which everyone, supposedly, should go to a two-row store without rebuilding. In practice, Russian and Soviet pistols with such stores are in absolutely no demand in markets where there are normal western modern models of pistols with stores with rearrangement in one row, which have a higher accuracy, accuracy and rate of fire. Nor does it jam anything there. Starting with Stechkin, Russian pistols with two-row shops are nowhere to be bought, where it is possible to purchase more advanced weapons. This is a dead end line for the evolution of magazine weapons, because the problem with the accuracy of weapons with such a magazine cannot be solved technically. This problem is solved in an elementary way - by switching to a magazine with a central cartridge feed.
Here is a picture of the problem of a tapering neck, as the author of the article sees it, in the commentary above I gave a simple and technologically advanced solution that eliminates this problem by 99%, and the weapon returns normal accuracy and rate of fire:

Quote: dumkopff

Strictly speaking, your comment goes more into the spam category, or rather, even pathology. There is an overvalued idea, there is a desire to convey it to everyone and everyone. And completely out of place.

Strictly speaking, they write about weapons here. But Russian weapons are going through hard times, thanks, among other things, to similar authors who skipped physics and mathematics classes at school and advocate illiterate technical solutions that the world rejects and does not accept. Nobody buys Russian pistols in developed arms markets, where there is a normal supply. And the Russian military and security forces will be forced to fulfill their duty with these oblique weapons. When faced with more advanced Western models in the hands of the enemy, the ratio of losses will not be in favor of the Russian military. The problem of such weapons can only be solved by replacing them with a magazine with a central cartridge feed and nothing else.

You have to start thinking with your head, and not let drooling bubbles under my comments. The idea is not overvalued. It is quite simple and technological. I looked at the best Western stores with rebuilding, including those adopted by the American army, which have already passed all the test cycles, and suggested an elementary way to get rid of the speck in the picture - to make the profile of the narrowing neck of such a store self-cleaning. But a two-lane store without rebuilding is just an overvalued idea, but for the enemy to whom such "authors" render a service with their stupidity.

[Catfish]

This comrade is full of all kinds of and overvalued ideas, and he, as always, verbose tries to convey them to others. I know what it's called, but I don’t want to earn another warning.

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: Sea Cat

This comrade is full of all kinds of and overvalued ideas, and he, as always, verbose tries to convey them to others. I know what it's called, but I don’t want to earn another warning.

This is not an overvalued idea. "Overvalued ideas" from illiterate "experts" who do not fully understand the operation of a weapon, because they shoot 3 rounds every six months and drown for a double magazine without rebuilding, or they only shoot at the computer keyboard and finger on the phone screen. Such a magazine kills the accuracy, grouping and practical rate of fire from magazine weapons.
I suggest returning to the normal magazine layout, which again will allow you to shoot normally, rather than throwing bullets left and right, like any (!) Weapon with a double magazine without rebuilding. I specially spent a couple of days free time to study the German reports on the MP-40 store, what was the real problem there, everything was fine during the tests, and when the operation went on, the troops began to fix problems with the supply of cartridges from the store. The problem was contamination of the tapered neck of the store. In pure test conditions, as the Germans then conducted, the store worked perfectly.
I reviewed the mass of our and foreign modern weapons, which were of interest, including the most high-precision and advanced expensive versions of the American AR-15 rifle and the new Russian pistol "Udav" - all samples with a magazine without rebuilding in one row are thrown from side to side when firing ... This is understandable, but I revised it anyway to make sure that not only I understand this, but everyone who shoots with a weapon, and not just the keyboard on the Internet. The accuracy and accuracy of such weapons are limited by the illiterate design of the store. It's time to retire such a store and develop a better one.

And regarding your disobedient language, I already made a remark to you when you insulted me the last time. What makes you think that on the Internet you are the smartest and can give ratings to people. If you yourself don’t realize that a cartridge moving from the side of the magazine when feeding into the chamber works like a pendulum swinging weapons from side to side and reduces the accuracy of the weapon, then figure out the problem, and then make the diagnosis, it’s better for yourself

I wrote above that it’s easier today to make the tapering neck of the store with a self-cleaning rebuild, as I also wrote, this is elementary than sending the military and security forces armed with a bad store and oblique weapons. The angle of convergence of the tapering neck at the store will also be taken from the best foreign stores of a similar design, and everything will be through. Only make the narrowing of the store self-cleaning, which is technologically not a problem at all and is solved once or twice.

And I wrote about reducing the sleeve flange, sorting out the advantages of such a sleeve design in self-loading and bolt weapons, and revising the tutorials on the design of cartridges for small arms - everything is reduced there without any problems. And if the calculation of the new cartridge case is carried out correctly, and not anyhow, then we win both in the accuracy of the weapon, and in the rate of fire, and in the mass of weapons, in the mass of the movable bolt group for weapons with locking. Weapons get under such a cartridge more perfect.

Not prone to jamming with a self-cleaning tapering neck, the magazine can be rearranged in one row, plus a cartridge with a reduced flange and we already have more advanced magazine weapons: a pistol, a self-loading sniper rifle, even an automatic rifle (?!). It does not throw it when firing from side to side, and throws it less when feeding a cartridge from the magazine into the chamber. In the West, they have already prepared for the release of such weapons: stores with rebuilding have worked out, successfully undergo military tests and have been massively armed with the armies of NATO countries since the 80s of the last century. Cartridges with a reduced liner flange have been gaining ground since the beginning of 2000, and it is these cartridges that are being tested for promising weapons for the army. They will shoot even more accurately, and at a faster pace, from a lighter and more accurate weapon.

And here you will spit on the Internet for comments regarding unsuccessful weapons nodes and send young guys to slaughter in the event of an armed conflict with oblique and backward-designed weapons. Forget about exporting such weapons, too, because today’s weapons are chosen from the best modern designs, and not the curve decisions of 70 years ago, which for 70 years could not be put in order, because initially the design was flawed and could not be solved technically by any tricks, which can be used in real weapons.

[Horse, people and soul]

This is called by specialists delirium of invention.

Do not read.

Was it about reduced flanges again?

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

This is called by specialists delirium of invention.

Do not read.

Was it about reduced flanges again?

You yourself shoot from Glock with a normal store, and then you download show-offs for visitors. You behave ugly.
When you buy Stechkin or GSh-18 instead of Glock, then I will probably believe you that you are completely crazy. Not in the iron cabinet in the collection to rust, namely to replace Glock. In the meantime, you just download show-offs for visitors
I have been shooting various weapons since I was 13 years old. And not 3 rounds every six months, as some here. Waves and gunshots did and shot even earlier. But it didn’t end with my gunshot or wounding a passerby, but more civilized - in the sports section of shooting. At the age of 16, he made his first normal pistol and a bunch of other interesting shooters, for which he was invited by the Specialists for a long conversation, as a result of which I was not sent to prison, and was strongly recommended to go to study in Tula. Everything is fine with itching. I have been ill with them for a long time. I saw many different weapons and poked around in it. Only your ruger did not know how his drum locks up, because this company has never been interested in before.

About the reduced flange, you are simply simply stupid and I explained to you last time that the reduced flange is promising not only in long-barreled weapons, but also in self-loading pistols. If you do not even have a pistol at hand how the automatic self-loading weapon works, and where you can "cut corners" to improve the characteristics of the weapon, then you just shoot and do not think about anything. Buy ready-made weapons, don't torture yourself

I’m not only writing about shops and flanges here. I figured out the shortcomings of gas exhaust automation and found solutions to most problems of gas exhaust weapons that negatively affect its accuracy and accuracy, to bring self-loading accuracy closer to good bolt engines, they will be inferior just a little. I am more interested in long-barreled weapons. I love the exact weapon from which you can shoot normally. And I shoot a lot of such weapons, and not just hammer on the clave. Therefore, I know well all the problems of modern weapons. Sovdepovskih recipes on how to make a shooting club that can be pulled over gravel and arable land by tying it to the truck from behind instead of a plow all day, and then hammering the bull with her with a butt between the horns, but I don’t know how to get into a growth figure 300 meters, but as a normal weapon I have my own thoughts. Pistols also intersect a lot with long-barreled weapons in design and in general terms I imagine how to modernize the same GSh-18 so that people like you start buying it.

[Astra wild]

Major Whirlwind, but you weren’t taught at school that poking a stranger is not ethical? It doesn't seem like you would be buddies

[Catfish]

Good evening, colleague ... There is such a category of individuals who, no matter how you teach them, cannot be weaned from their natural habit. And they are rude, as a rule, simply because they cannot do otherwise. Here, as they say, "at least a stake on your head".

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: Astra wild

Major Whirlwind, but you weren’t taught at school that poking a stranger is not ethical? It doesn't seem like you would be buddies

So I don't get into friends either with the Horse or with the "Sea" cat (Kostya). They fell in love with me And I don’t know where to hide from their increased attention to my person. I actually wrote about the shortcomings of the store without rebuilding. I rummage only in farts. And I consider this increased attention to me unnecessary. I’ll criticize the store and offer a more correct one, both a cartridge and a gun. It’s better to do it right away. This is a weapon. 70-year-old store, which was never taught to shoot right in 70 years of torment, it’s time to be softer .... forget. I admire PPSh all evening. Only the delays of an imperfect disk magazine can be eliminated, and all these weapons with two-row magazines without rebuilding landfill sites. It’s bad that many people write here, but they don’t shoot weapons themselves and never thought about why they get with a single-row store and nobody wants to buy with a double-row store. In the West, they thought about it, and made a two-row with a rebuild to work in weapons as a single-row, and did not jam. And everyone is buying, and in NATO these have been in service since the 80s of the last century. And in Russia again, as with a protruding flange cartridge, when the world is already carried away by the reduction of the flange of a flangeless cartridge. 21st century in the yard. And some still have the 19th. It is necessary to wake up intensively so that the 22nd do not oversleep. I wake up. Woke some up. But Horse and Kostya generally fell in love with me

[el_soldado]

and they have been in service with NATO since the 80s of the last century

Please show me at least one sample of a modern submachine gun, submachine gun or self-loading rifle with a magazine that has a rearrangement in 1 row of 2.

when the world is already carried away by the flange reduction of the flangeless cartridge

and here it would be nice to give examples

[Catfish]

Major, how about orientation? I actually belong to the heterosexual and better half of humanity. And your sexual problems do not concern me. You can dream about anything you want, even that Cats and Horses fell in love with you. This is actually called bestiality. All the best, you are our loving one.

[page]

Damn, Major, I don’t understand why everyone has taken over you? On the contrary, I am pleased to read a knowledgeable person, real arguments! Even if you are wrong, then unlike your opponents, you at least explain your position!

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: page

Damn, Major, I don’t understand why everyone has taken over you? On the contrary, I am pleased to read a knowledgeable person, real arguments! Even if you are wrong, then unlike your opponents, you at least explain your position!

Ignore the cons. This is the agony of Russian arms illiteracy. They let foam in, and after half a year or a year they don’t want to remember that they didn’t understand when they would understand. This is not the first time I've been observing this.
When the communists took away all normal weapons from the population, for half a century they fed people with the fables "that all over the world only the USSR makes the right and best weapon, and the rest all do not know how to make weapons." The officers fired 3 rounds every six months from a pistol, when I fired more rounds during a training session than they did in 10 years of such "shooting". Then they gave birth to such monsters as a two-row store without rebuilding in one row in a pistol. Now they will move their brains. Many have already fired from high-quality Western samples and compared them with domestic ones. Domestic pistols with two-row magazines without rebuilding lose to western pistols with rebuilding in one wicket. They will start to think after what I rolled out here. And I will continue to press until everyone who needs it will understand that the life of a soldier is worth more than a good new store with a one-lane rearrangement in a Russian pistol.
We win the rigidity of the pistol frame with a magazine with a rebuild, on which the barrel is mounted, and when firing the frame works on bending. With rebuilding and a narrower upper part of the neck of the store, the gun turns out to be more accurate. Accuracy and rate of fire are won, and due to the disposal of the gun from the pendulum in the store, which swings and twists the gun left and right.
Now large-caliber cartridges are used in pistols, the weight of cartridges and the dimensions of cartridges are growing - the pendulum also grows and wags the gun more strongly. Reducing the weight of the pistol, and now the pistols have become lighter, with a plastic frame - the pendulum is further enhanced by the pistol with a two-row magazine without rebuilding. It turns out trash, not a gun. And all because of one crooked store.
It’s time to reduce the flange of all live ammunition in service, including pistol rounds, and switch to a normal modern store in pistols - with a rearrangement in one row and with a direct supply of a cartridge. And the pistols will shoot no worse than the western ones.

[Ruger-para]

The second time I read you, and I read you carefully, since I never shot myself. The question is, why did all of our designers after PPSh, starting with Sudaev, leave the store without rebuilding? "and it is clear, what is the reason for such obstinacy?

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: Ruger-para

It is strange, after all, the swinging effect when serving as you write should be "recognizable" and understandable, what is the reason for such obstinacy?

It’s not only recognizable (without quotes), the weapon simply swings when the cartridge is oblique from side to side when firing with a single fire, which is automatic, and so strong that it can be seen even from the side when you don’t shoot, but watch the shooting side, but you know where to look and look carefully. With the increase in caliber and mass of the cartridge, the weapon begins to swing even more. When I shoot, I also feel most jambs of weapons. I define some rhinestones, others after getting used to weapons and gradually. A small transverse bullet of a weapon in hand with the magazine pointing down at the weapon with a nod of the weapon on it is a big miss for the target, which increases even more with distance. And this is not treated by any match trunks, balanced automation, or muzzle compensators, not treated at all.
The stubborn ones were not we and it was not for us to know that the communist gods had rotten in their heads when Khrushchev destroyed aircraft and artillery, or when hungry people forcibly began to feed with corn bread instead of wheat bread, but sent an army against the dissatisfied and massively shot people like Bandera burned recently unarmed people in Odessa in Ukraine. What the Communists had in mind and why they couldn’t bring to mind a normal store, how they brought it to the West, let it remain on their conscience.
We need to be rested in the other direction - how to make weapons better, and not worse, so that our soldiers and soldiers die less in situations of fire resistance with the enemy built by more advanced Western models of small arms.

I'm not Khrushchev. It was during his time when they reported on successes, but were bashfully silent about "failures" and were busy with postscripts. This is most likely why. Someone received an order for a "new" store, and the old one was written off. In the West, they did not write off, and today our pistols are inferior to Western ones and do not stand up to criticism. Only old PM and TT are bought there, but these are already very old samples and there are newer ones. TT is Browning, PM is Walther. And then double stores went without rebuilding, which nobody needs nafik.

[Ruger-para]

Well, about the hunger, I somehow didn’t feel small, we had everything, and the bread was delicious. When the corn went, it was nibbled, it was also tasty.
And as for the trunks, I’m observing it myself, no one can normally accept it. Everything is like that: they are releasing for the party’s organs. And it’s all done automatically on the basis of the AK. It wasn’t a hell of a Mauser cartridge to take from the beginning. It wasn’t just like this, for example, did our whole war run mainly with rag ribbons and Maxim? Here it’s for sure, I still can’t understand it at all. They were metal. But they didn’t take them. The Red Army-type was expensive and paid, I saw recently such a thing in the woods, I completely bent it all and the Finnish at least put it in the bow!

[sen]

Well, these are the first "pancakes", it was impossible to beat on the hands.

[riwas]

Yes, the 9 mm cartridge for such submachine guns appeared only in 1951.

[YOUR]

FAQ ?????????????????? And MP-28,35,38,40.41, and Sten, and Beretta MAB M938A (1938, 1938/42, 1938/44 and 1938/49) are still a bunch of PP of various armies under the cartridge 9 * 19.

[sen]

Have you read the title? We are talking about the Soviet "Uzis"

[YOUR]

Read the comment I answered?

[Varreox.]

He's talking about the domestic 9x18, it seems (because he is 51 years old).

[Ali Kokand]

The Schmeisser store from MP 40 is not considered the limit of perfection, even according to the reviews of Hitler’s voyages themselves. And it is the same as the carob in pps, with the lane being rebuilt. A two-row store has its advantages, it is strange to read another.

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: Ali Kokand

The Schmeisser store from MP 40 is not considered the limit of perfection, even according to the reviews of Hitler’s voyages themselves. And it is the same as the carob in pps, with the lane being rebuilt. A two-row store has its advantages, it is strange to read another.

PPSh and MP-40 have a smooth tapering neck, which can wedge the cartridge in the store if garbage gets there. On the MP-40, everything works fine on a clean store, and when dirt got into it in a combat environment, problems were fixed. The Germans have studied everything in detail and there are reports of various commissions. PPSh also has a store with an unsuitable design in the tapering neck, where any rubbish can jam the store. But if you do not copy from the MP-40, but do it normally, then everything will work. Make a self-cleaning tapering neck of the store, where the cartridges do not slide on a flat face, but slide on the 2nd on each side (for the pistol cartridge) or the 3rd (for the rifle cartridge) protruding triangular guides, round the top of the triangular guide slightly so as not to scratch sleeve and did not wear out from friction. And everything will work.

A store with a staggered arrangement of cartridges without rebuilding has a serious congenital jamb: the cartridge enters the chamber not in a straight line: from the store below - into the chamber, but along an oblique path: from left or right from below - to the center forward up into the chamber, which causes additional alternate nods arms left and right. Accuracy as a result drops very much and the weapon is effective only when firing at the closest distances. All weapons with such a magazine have this drawback. For any money and with any match barrel, with the most advanced automation design. Because mowing weapons store such weapons. The rest of the nodes and parts have nothing to do with it. Such a store spoils the whole picture.

They have been letting him out for 70 years, and they have probably already forgotten how to shoot accurate weapons. Because of the nods when aiming, you have to wait until the weapon stabilizes horizontally and then bring the front sight to the target - this reduces the rate of fire. Automatic fire is not treated at all and the cartridges fly around the target, and not at the target. In addition to nodding left and right, the weapon also nods slightly, because the cartridges in the store rise, and as a result, the weapon spins generally along a complex and unpredictable path, and getting out of such a weapon is very difficult. A store with a single-row direct feed cartridge left and right nods are missing and weapons are much easier to control. Therefore, serious western offices buy more accurate pistols with a single direct feed cartridge from the store, rather than two-row without rebuilding.

[prodi]

there, rather, not pecking weapons, but the deformation of the cartridge with a high rate of fire
(I'm talking about two-row food)

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: prodi

there, rather, not pecking weapons, but the deformation of the cartridge with a high rate of fire

The cartridge has a mass. It moves from the store into the chamber with acceleration, not along the axis of the barrel - the central axis of the weapon, but at an angle to the axis, which causes physical forces that blast the weapon from side to side, the weapon also rolls left and right, but it feels like a swinging weapon. For a pistol, this is generally an ass, because the pistol is held in the hand (s) without resting on the butt. But such a store does not bring anything good in long-barreled weapons. This is a pendulum, which the rams walking physics at school and institute did not know. And to finalize the store with a single-row direct feed was a crowbar, because the bosses over these sheep were even more dumb and did not care how many millions of soldiers would die with such weapons on the battlefield. On the second day, they forgot that the store was not entirely good. So until now, Moscow Region has been demanding all weapons with such stores from weapon developers. No one cares why the Russian weapons are oblique, and nobody wants to understand. They sounded in the news that they had developed a new pistol / machine gun and forgot it on the second day. And then people will die with these weapons.

Cartridge deformation, if any, is easier to fight by simply increasing the structural rigidity of the cartridge case and cartridge. But the fundamental laws of physics do not allow the pendulum in the store to be fought. The pendulum must be abandoned in order to get rid of this jamb. And you can get rid of the only way - to provide a direct supply of the cartridge from the store to the barrel chamber, and the old store in the trash.

[prodi]

pecking a weapon with two-row power - a fiction (well, that is, something for the pistol can be.) Increase the structural rigidity of the cartridge - from the same category

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: prodi

pecking weapons with double row food - fiction

If you cancel gravity and other laws of physics, then YES, but in real life - NO. I myself have been shooting for a very long time. And I reviewed all the fashionable and modern weapons, up to very expensive and advertised ones, and how other shooters shoot from such weapons to make sure that all people are humanoids and the structure of joints is the same for everyone. All weapons with a beveled cartridge feed from the magazine wiggle left and right when firing. Absolutely everything: pistols, long barrels with a stock. What is American, what is German, what is Italian, what is Soviet and Russian - any. And a light weapon chambered for a heavy cartridge generally wags terribly strongly - but this is understandable, the mass of moving parts (the cartridge when moving from the magazine to the chamber) is higher relative to the mass of the stationary weapon and the muscle effort of the shooter to hold the weapon evenly. This phenomenon cannot be circumvented at the level of physics. Only by using a magazine with a direct feed of the cartridge from the magazine: exactly along the longitudinal axis of the weapon, which coincides with the axis of the barrel of a normal weapon. The beveled feed will always wag the weapon, so they get rid of such stores wherever possible. In the future, they will get rid of them on machines. Now they shoot from a closed bolt, plus they use protective curtains, like in American rifles, and the stores get less dirty inside. But the Americans have a jamb in the AR-15: a "dirty" rifle gas system that clogs up the magazine. The Americans need a new rifle for such a magazine, with a "clean" gas system.

[prodi]

Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

A slanted feed will always wag a weapon.

this, if only firing a quick fire or bursts from a pistol, and then, you need to check

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: prodi

this, if only firing a quick fire or bursts from a pistol, and then, you need to check

The accuracy of the weapon and the rate of fire are falling - this is enough to recognize the weapon as obsolete and ineffective. I'll take the simplest and worked out as a watch Glock, and you - GS-18. Or take Sig, or Beretta. Even Huckler und Koch, who is less popular in the West. While you aim between shots, I’ll shoot you with an accurate aimed shot. This is a very important point. There is also a 9X21 mm cartridge in Russian pistols without a reduced flange - even with a direct feed, the weapon will chat longer and more vertically (now it talks both vertically and horizontally, which is generally a SHVAH!), Or you can reduce the sleeve flange and this cartridge will equal a weapon chambered for 9x19 mm, and can even bypass it by the speed of stabilization of the weapon in the hand of the shooter after a shot and automatic reloading of the gun.
There are so many nuances if you start to count and think with your head, and not look for where to drink and eat I am only surprised at what hangover MO is sleeping in and does not blow into a mustache. Weapon designers in Russia will create any weapon on order, any cartridges and magazines. And the problem is in the MO. This MO sets the conditions for developers who cut off the key characteristics of the weapon, and it begins to seriously lag behind Western models. And then it all spills into corpses.

[el_soldado]

I'll take the simplest and worked out as a watch Glock, and you - GS-18. Or I’ll take Sig, or Beretta

And let's take Glock and say Viking, and with the same barnaul we’ll shoot side by side in a dash?
Of course, I’m not a real welder and the pistol is really bad, but something tells me that at a typical pistol distance, experience will mean much more than the length of the store
And it’s possible to shoot from Beretta against Stechkin, although it’s more difficult - APSs are not found in civil shooting ranges, alas, but it’s also possible in principle.

[Horse, people and soul]

As an epitaph to the "major" banned for constant rudeness ...

The "shooting" finger will pull the pistol more than feeding cartridges from the magazine without rebuilding.

In fairness, there is one, in my opinion, objective reason why a rebuild store reliably supplies a gun than a store without rebuild.

This reason is the wide range of cartridges. In the USSR there were several cartridge factories producing cartridges with the same bullet shape in accordance with GOST. Having debugged the supply of personalized cartridges from the magazine with such a bullet shape, it is possible to achieve a reliable supply of cartridges to the barrel ramp. But when the shape of the bullet changes, the reliability also changes.

In stores with a rebuild, the cartridge is always fed uniformly onto the ramp of the barrel, and it does not depend so much on the shape of the bullet.

Look at the ammunition collectors website for how varied the bullet shape can be for the most popular 9x19 pistol cartridge.

https://www.municion.com

To talk about the reliability of a store in one system relative to another without considering the reliability of food is how to talk about the merits of a cubic crystal horse in a vacuum relative to a spherical crystal horse in a vacuum.

[Nikolaevich I]

If you "touch" "Uzi", then it seems that Gal did not calm down on the "basic" model ... because. I had to meet the names: "Mini Uzi", "Micro Uzi" ....

[Catfish]

Well, it has already gone pure commerce. It was necessary to feed the kids. )))

[Horse, people and soul]

With micro bullets fly out completely uncontrollably. For Jewish shooting, sticking out his hand with a micro around the corner, perhaps.

Specific weapon.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

If you "touch" "Uzi", then it seems that Gal did not calm down on the "basic" model ... because. I had to meet the names: "Mini Uzi", "Micro Uzi" ....

over time, marketing wanted new things, so that buyers would not forget about the brand.
in principle, the main plus of Uzi is that there is practically no return. the open shutter makes it up.
and so for infantry it is not very suitable because it is short and a little dangerous because of this in battle. (I do not say at effect. distances)
probably the most special forces.

[Strashila]

Let's just say, the USSR could afford design research in the field of armaments, practicing and testing various weapons schemes.

[YOUR]

I don’t understand why so Uzi are worn. A creepy work of Jewish weapons genius. He was not serious in the case of weight, he almost caught up with AKM, and this was with a pistol cartridge. Shooting from the open shutter, and the shutter window is such that the cartridge 12 gauge breaks. Imagine scooping up mud in combat conditions. This Uzi made it and adopted it from hopelessness. It was necessary by any means and means to saturate the troops with a rifleman. Sodran from Czech Sa. 25 which is here in the picture.

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: YOUR

I don’t understand why so Uzi are worn.

They bother because the President of the United States was once guarded by bodyguards with such an Uzi. Reagan was precisely guarded by Uzi. Therefore, such advertising has gone. When there were assassination attempts on Reagan, such Uzi managed to photograph such Uzi at his personal guard, spread the Uzi pictures through the media and went to be taken.

[Major_Vortex]

Even the video found, for the local stubborn minusers, how Uzi became famous throughout America and the entire Western world when there was an attempt on Reagan:

[Horse, people and soul]

If this mustachioed guard hadn’t just shot in the air, he would have become even more famous.



Only this would be his last day, as a guard.

[Catfish]

Well, you, my friend, are already slipping down to the frank vocabulary of the sub-scum. From what kind of mail you have come to this site, something is too much from you to.

[YOUR]

Well, where did you see the battle in the forest or in the desert? In urban conditions, it is quite possibly not bad. Ratchet creating a dense fire. But how does this refute what I wrote? Our special services are armed with AKSU also for this reason a spacious store and the creation of a high density of fire. Do not bring the Lord there will be an attack on the First person in the crowd will go ahead and watering around.
But once again, how does this refute what I wrote ????

[Major_Vortex]

Uzi was widely known in the United States and the West after the assassination attempt on Reagan, when reporters photographed the guards from Uzi. I found the video on the net. Prior to this, Uzi outside of Israel, few knew. Security does not shoot Uzi in the video. The United States had its own submachine guns of this class, but the president was guarded by Uzi. This is the whole intrigue. Uzi is better than American classmates. AKSU is even better. But AKSU under the standard cartridge of 5,45 mm, and not under the pistol. At AKSU, the barrel heats up quickly and it would be necessary for him to change the design of the fore-end in order to place an aluminum radiator around the barrel closer to the chamber and have a normal heat sink. Americans do this on POF's short versions of AR-15 and helps:

Here is a showdown with a longer barrel, but everything is shown in detail:

This rifle has a gas vent like the SVD, not the classic AR-15.

[YOUR]

Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

AKSU barrel quickly warms up

So Uzi quickly heats up the barrel. But the guard does not lead long battles. I'm not sure that the security guard with Uzi had additional stores with him. So for AKSU, the diplomat, adapted for hidden wearing, also does not provide an additional store. Not that case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKb4nuhuRlk
I trust this author more.
At present, of course, AKSU, as a "heavy" weapon for bodyguards, was naturally replaced with a more modern type CP-2, and it was also infa that the AEK-919K still stands.

[el_soldado]

Before this, Uzi outside of Israel, few knew

yeah, and so in 1959, ultrasounds were adopted by the Bundeswehr, and then the Dutch paratroopers and a bunch of people
but - few knew about him :)
watch more videos on YouTube

[Horse, people and soul]

There, the biggest problem there is high rate of fire and kalashmatenie. Cleaning the premises will do, but certainly not for the protection of top officials. In that case, would everyone be shot? A large window - the sand as it enters and is blown out. Least tolerance weapons with low tolerances. The more gaps, the more stable.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

Cleaning the premises will do, but certainly not for the protection of top officials. In that case, would everyone be shot?

as required to prove!

Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

The biggest problem there is the high rate of fire.

Uzi - 600 / m
mp5 - 800 / m

Uzi doesn't shoot so fast. it has a shutter weight of 1 kg!

[Horse, people and soul]

Uzi is different. Mikrozi, that the guard is carrying, seems to be far from 600 rounds per minute, but the most that are 1250 rounds per minute.

Mini Uzi 950-1200 rounds per minute.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

Uzi is different. Mikrozi, that the guard is carrying, seems to be far from 600 rounds per minute, but the most that are 1250 rounds per minute.

I wrote an ultrasound. not micro and mini or whatever. which is discussed in the article.
Moreover, in Israel it is not customary to shoot in bursts. came to the conclusion that single (quick if necessary) shots can solve most problems and fewer rounds of ammunition.

[Horse, people and soul]

There is a well-known case in Tallinn in the early 90s when they received a large (for Estonia) quantity of Western weapons. The police armed Uzi instead of Ksenia ...

So, at the plywood factory, several cops fired after a car running along a viaduct. There is four-way traffic. They didn’t find a single hole in the car and, thank God, they did NOT hit anywhere. After this incident, the Uzi was collected and given to the warehouse for the kaistsitelites.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

There is a famous case in Tallinn ...

The problem is clear here.

[Horse, people and soul]

Kaneshna!

In Estonia, Uzi was not kosher and uncircumcised.

[san4es]

Quote: Horse, people and soul

... in Tallinn ... the police armed the Uzi

... Picture on occasion. Eesti Special Forces:

[Horse, people and soul]

Now I know what the fear of dying from laughter looks like.

[san4es]

... I remember these pictures. At that time, they had gathering reservists in the surrounding forests ... And there are a lot of fun mushrooms

[voyaka uh]

"Imagine how in combat conditions scoops dirt" ////
-----
He draws mud, and scrolls it, without jamming. Large gaps, large shutter, like AKM.
Yes, heavy and inaccurate. But its rate of fire is not very large. And at 50-100 m, shooting in short bursts, you can create a certain density of fire. Not having shot the entire store in seconds. There was a case in 67, when a battalion of paratroopers with an Uzi and several light machine guns attacked Egyptian positions. After a stubborn battle, the Egyptians retreated. The battalion lost two dozen fighters.
The surprise was when it turned out that they had thrown off an entire Egyptian division! Captured Egyptians said that by the density of fire, they thought that against them were large enemy forces. I mean, with the classic Uzi it was somehow possible to fight with the skills of infantrymen.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

In Soviet times, many worthy weapons were invented, but for some reason, they did not go into mass production and were not accepted for service.

[el_soldado]

which for example?

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Quote: el_soldado

which for example?

And the meaning is repeated in the article examples are given. At one time, there was a very good agro-industrial complex pistol, but unfortunately it did not go into production and there were many other weapons that were not realized.

[el_soldado]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

Its time was a pretty good agro gun

if you are talking about a Kalashnikov automatic pistol, then he deservedly lost to APS.
Let's get some more examples.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Quote: el_soldado

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

Its time was a pretty good agro gun

if you are talking about a Kalashnikov automatic pistol, then he deservedly lost to APS.
Let's get some more examples.

If he didn’t lose the APS, they didn’t take him into service for another reason. If you don’t even know this, then there’s nothing for me to continue a dialogue with you. If you do not learn enough of these examples, you will know more.

[Catfish]

Tokarev one of the first samples was with automatic fire, a capacious store and had a forearm. In short, it reminded me very much of p / p, but in terms of the device it was still a gun. Although the Polish P-63 shutter casing moved like a conventional pistol during firing, nevertheless, it was immediately credited to machine guns.

[Horse, people and soul]

In the USSR, these were Shuklin, Rukavishnikov and Pushkin submachine guns

Who will design a new software for us? Pushkin?

Each cook must be able to design PP. Almost (C) V.I. Lenin

The housekeeper made vodka ...

[san4es]

_ Uzi is today a recognized brand in the global small arms market.

... Submachine guns enhanced the power of infantry fire at close range.

[irontom]

Danila ran with Ingram MAC-10

[Catfish]

[quote] ... Submachine guns enhanced the power of infantry fire at close range. [quote]

And they didn't get anywhere! Especially on adrenaline and even more so in hand-to-hand combat (trench). The recognizable brand "Uzi" is good only for one thing - whoever tried to use it at least once in a serious situation, he will certainly prefer the abused "pepesha", for all the insanity of the construction of the fossil "our everything". A hole, a "window" for ejection of cartridges, did not try to cock with the heel, or shoot through it well ... let's say 23 - mimi? Sanchez, colleague, you, as always, brilliantly illustrate any event, but, in my, perhaps not entirely enlightened view, "Uzik" is not worth even a fraction of such efforts. This is people in the language on Facebook and let’s argue why it is so legendary.

[san4es]

Quote: Sea Cat

... and didn’t get anywhere!

_I agree.
... Although, some like it (for clashes in the favelas)

... Well, Sikario with all sorts of drug cartels - it's terrible to catch up with motorcycles

... "Uzik" is not worth even a fraction of such efforts.

_Yes, no effort - there was nothing to do

[Horse, people and soul]

Looking at these guys with trunks of different lengths, Sigmund Freud involuntarily recalls with his invented sex-psychoanalysis.

The guy in the foreground with the short barrel looks happier than the guy next to the long barrel.

[san4es]

Quote: Horse, people and soul

... The guy in the foreground with the short barrel looks happier than the guy next to the long barrel.

... Or maybe he dreamed of "night vision" from childhood ... and even under the cover of "long-barreled"

[Horse, people and soul]

He also has a bike! I do not believe that with such a smile and without a bicycle ... just a bicycle did not fit on the picture.

Now, do you see the bike? No? Me neither. And he is!

[Horse, people and soul]

A dude with a long barrel has a dull look. He figured the prospect of carrying 5-6 kilos plus cartridges in the heat.

[san4es]

Quote: Horse, people and soul

He figured the prospect of carrying 5-6 kilos plus cartridges in the heat.

... and without great

[Horse, people and soul]

There were not enough Veliks at all in Brazil.

The greats intercepted cunning Estonian armored forces.

http://img.allzip.org/g/52/orig/15835690.jpg

[san4es]

Interestingly, Thai special forces, hiding their joy from wearing UZI, behind armored masks :

[Horse, people and soul]

The Iron Mask, Louis Sixth. In six copies.

[Undecim]

As a result, the Israeli engineer Uziel Gal presented his own vision of such weapons to the military. In terms of layout and appearance, the novelty was in many ways a repetition of the Czechoslovak submachine gun Sa. 23, which was developed by designer Y. Holechekom in 1948, and already in 1949, was launched into mass production. The Czech model was intended primarily for paratroopers and differed advanced at the time the scheme. At the same time, it is not known whether Gal was familiar with the Czechoslovak development, and even more so with the Soviet prototypes that had been tested for five years before the Czech submachine gun.
And thirteen years earlier than the Soviet prototypes, a Japanese prototype with a telescopic shutter was tested.

Nambu Model submachine gun. 1930 year I
The Nambu Model I submachine gun was developed by Japanese designer Kijiro Nambu in the first half of the thirties. Combined placing the store in a pistol grip with a bolt that covered the barrel along its entire length, which ensured the small dimensions of the weapon. In addition, the Nambu Model 1 submachine gun had an adjustable pneumatic shutter damper, which made it possible to reduce recoil felt by the shooter and change the rate of fire, providing two automatic fire modes with a rate of 300 or 600 rounds per minute. This sample underwent a number of modifications and was tested until 1935 or 1936, however, due to the complex structure and low reliability, it was rejected by the Japanese army.

[Catfish]

Hi victor And why, interestingly, this constructor didn’t take anything serious into the army’s armament, except, of course, considering a pair of absolutely two pistols and a floor with at least a different cartridge. Is it all about the samurai code?

[Undecim]

And why, interestingly, this constructor didn’t take anything serious into the army’s armament, except, of course, considering a pair of absolutely perfect pistols and a floor with at least a different cartridge.
Hey.
He designed three pistols. In addition to three pistols, the Japanese army also had dozens of its samples, starting with the Arisaka Type 38 rifle and ending with the Type 100 submachine gun. Plus, he created the Nambu Arms Manufacturing Company, which exists today. so there’s nothing to reproach the samurai for.

[Catfish]

Well, the rifle - yes, I read that it was a very good weapon, I don’t know anything about the Tour 100 submarine, except for its structure and appearance. But pistols frankly cause great doubt ...

[Undecim]

But William Ruger, he had no doubt and boldly copied the Nambu type 1949 pistol in 14. The famous Ruger Standard, produced today, was produced. Almost three million copies were sold in different versions - ten times more than Nambu Type 14.
The most successful gun in terms of sales under the cartridge .22LR.

[Catfish]

Vic, the "sneaky" question , and the return spring from "Ruger" where?

[Undecim]

To be honest, I didn't understand the "trick" of the question.

The picture shows Recoil Spring.

[Undecim]

Or so. Position 8.

[Horse, people and soul]

Nambu type 14 without locking? How is a .22LR Ruger?

[Horse, people and soul]

The appearance of the gun does not give rise to conclusions that Ruger licked his gun with Nambu. Nambu Type 14 uses a short-stroke locking circuit. And Ruger is a regular blow tank.

[Undecim]

Haste, as my NS said, is needed in three cases.
Read how and how the company Sturm, Ruger & Company, Incorporated began, English, I hope you speak.
At the same time and read about Ruger Standard. And the fact that Ruger is chambered for .22 LR without locking - why locking under such a cartridge?

[Horse, people and soul]

Well, the story is the story, and the device is the device.



In terms of design, these are two different pistols, very similar in shape.

About history I take my word for it.

[Undecim]

It's good to take a word, but there is such a book - Wilson, RL (1996). Ruger & His Guns: A History of the Man, the Company and Their Firearms.
Everything is described there.

[Horse, people and soul]

I believe! Accepted as an axiom.

[Catfish]

I, in fact, meant that the systems are different, in spite of the external similarity. Different cartridges, no locking, the location of the same return spring. Erma KGP68 is also similar to Parabellum, but these pistols are still different in design.

[el_soldado]

Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

the cartridge does not enter the chamber in a straight line: from the bottom of the store — forward into the chamber, but along an oblique trajectory: from the left or from the right from the bottom — to the center forward up into the chamber, which causes additional alternate nods of the weapon left and right. Accuracy as a result drops very much

and men don’t even know, and all over the world they make self-loading sniper rifles with shops with access to 2 rows: Germans, Americans, and Belgians, and our SVD is also like that ..

[trahterist]

Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

Quote: page

Damn, Major, I don’t understand why everyone has taken over you? On the contrary, I am pleased to read a knowledgeable person, real arguments! Even if you are wrong, then unlike your opponents, you at least explain your position!

Ignore the cons. This is the agony of Russian arms illiteracy. They let foam in, and after half a year or a year they don’t want to remember that they didn’t understand when they would understand. This is not the first time I've been observing this.
When the communists took away all normal weapons from the population, for half a century they fed people with the fables "that all over the world only the USSR makes the right and best weapon, and the rest all do not know how to make weapons." The officers fired 3 rounds every six months from a pistol, when I fired more rounds during a training session than they did in 10 years of such "shooting". Then they gave birth to such monsters as a two-row store without rebuilding in one row in a pistol. Now they will move their brains. Many have already fired from high-quality Western samples and compared them with domestic ones. Domestic pistols with two-row magazines without rebuilding lose to western pistols with rebuilding in one wicket. They will start to think after what I rolled out here. And I will continue to press until everyone who needs it will understand that the life of a soldier is worth more than a good new store with a one-lane rearrangement in a Russian pistol.
We win the rigidity of the pistol frame with a magazine with a rebuild, on which the barrel is mounted, and when firing the frame works on bending. With rebuilding and a narrower upper part of the neck of the store, the gun turns out to be more accurate. Accuracy and rate of fire are won, and due to the disposal of the gun from the pendulum in the store, which swings and twists the gun left and right.
Now large-caliber cartridges are used in pistols, the weight of cartridges and the dimensions of cartridges are growing - the pendulum also grows and wags the gun more strongly. Reducing the weight of the pistol, and now the pistols have become lighter, with a plastic frame - the pendulum is further enhanced by the pistol with a two-row magazine without rebuilding. It turns out trash, not a gun. And all because of one crooked store.
It’s time to reduce the flange of all live ammunition in service, including pistol rounds, and switch to a normal modern store in pistols - with a rearrangement in one row and with a direct supply of a cartridge. And the pistols will shoot no worse than the western ones.

Agony-Your extensive flows of consciousness in the comments.