Ground Combat Vehicle: The Impact of Modernity on the Future

48
In the middle of last May, four samples of infantry fighting vehicles created by various companies were delivered to Fort Bliss military base (Texas). This armored vehicle was brought in to conduct comparative tests, the purpose of which was to identify the BMP that was most suitable for the Pentagon. Specifically, these tests, conducted from 17 to 25 in May, were part of the NDV (Not-Developed Vehicle) technique, which, in turn, is part of the Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV) program.

Ground Combat Vehicle: The Impact of Modernity on the Future
CV9035 BAE Systems on the tests of the GCV program of the US Army at the White Sands range. May 2012 of the year




The GCV program was launched in 2009 year after the cessation of work on Future Combat Systems (FCS). Cancellation of the previous program did not affect the need to re-equip the ground forces and the US Marine Corps with new equipment. Therefore, the developments in the relevant section of the FCS program were saved and used in the GCV. At the same time, these two programs have a serious difference. So, FCS implied the uncontested creation of a completely new infantry fighting vehicle. GCV, in turn, involves three options for the development of BMP. The first of these concerns rethinking the experience and practice of using this class of technology. The implication was that in some cases, the role of an infantry fighting vehicle could be taken on by armored personnel carriers with appropriate weapons. True, over time, Pentagon analysts have come to the conclusion that it is too early to abandon this type of armored vehicles. The second way of development of infantry fighting vehicles is to consider and, in the long term, the start of large-scale production of a combat vehicle that has already been created and meets the requirements of the customer or can be quickly and simply brought into line with them. The third section of the GCV program is the most difficult, expensive and time-consuming: the creation of a completely new infantry fighting vehicle.

Three samples tested by the US Army GCV program at the White Sands range. From left to right: Turretless Bradley, CV9035, Namer. May 2012 of the year




The tests that took place a month ago are part of the second direction. Since the new BMP should go into the troops already in 2017, and the development of a new machine may take much longer, it was decided to once again compare and check the existing types of equipment. Five companies were invited to participate in the program, representing five armored vehicles. This is an Israeli Namer BMP based on tank Merkava Mk4, Swedish CV9035 developed by BAE Systems Hagglunds, General Dynamics Stryker SDVH and BMP M2A3 Bradley, with which they removed their native turret with an automatic gun at BAE Systems. In addition, documents on the German Puma BMP were transferred to the commission responsible for the GCV NDV program, but the real model did not reach America.

For obvious reasons, the details of the course of the nine-day tests were not announced. Nevertheless, it is known that all four delivered vehicles overcame specially prepared tracks with obstacles of various kinds, after which they were transported to the White Sands training ground, where assessment shots were made. It is worth noting that the comparative tests of the four infantry fighting vehicles presented are far from simple. All of them have quite different designs, which entails a lot of consequences. For example, you can compare the Israeli car Namer and the Swedish CV9035. Thus, the “Namer”, being a reworking of the main battle tank Merkava Mk4, has anti-rigging composite armor. CV9035, in turn, is able to protect the crew "only" from 14,5-mm armor-piercing bullets. But in the field of armament, the Swedish development is breaking free: its 30- or 40-mm automatic cannon greatly surpasses the 12,7-mm M2HB machinegun or Mk19 automatic grenade launcher mounted on the "Inner". The same instability among the contestants is observed with their fighting masses. The lightest of the contestants is the Stryker SDVH with its 18 tons. In turn, Namer, as a clear "descendant" of the tank, weighs all sixty.

Israeli heavy BTR Namer on the tests of the GCV program of the US Army at the White Sands range. May 2012 of the year


In general, the comparison of such different machines, although they belong to the same class, is quite complicated. However, in a sense, this is even a plus. The large variation in characteristics, both in running gears and in combat gears, allows drawing appropriate conclusions and, with much greater efficiency, developing the appearance of the BMP of the future. Of course, it is unlikely that any of the presented machines will become the benchmark for all indicators for a promising design, but it will turn out to choose the general direction of development. In addition, in case of failure of the planned development period of a completely new BMP, the NDV program will have one more positive consequence in the form of the purchase of already existing armored vehicles for infantry, meeting most of the requirements currently available. But such a development will only happen if BAE Systems and General Dynamics fail to cope with their obligations.

Back in 2009, these companies were instructed to develop their projects for promising infantry fighting vehicles for equipping ground forces and marines. Regarding the exact course of work, BAE Systems and GD do not yet apply, although they occasionally share various computerized images and diagrams on the subject. At the moment, the available information gives the impression of the continuation of the current development trend of American BMPs. The images presented by BAE Systems and General Dynamics clearly show the characteristic outlines of the tower of the Bradley machine and weapons similar to it. As for the chassis, in its case, you can observe the classic scheme of an infantry fighting vehicle with an engine compartment in the front of the hull and an amphibious assault vehicle in the rear. Obviously, such a layout - by the way, used on all participants of the NDV subprogram except “Stryker” - will be the basis for the machine that will eventually be adopted.

Machines presented by BAE Systems for testing under the GCV program of the US Army at the White Sands test site are in the foreground of Turretless Bradley, followed by the modified M2A3 Bradley. May 2012 of the year


It’s too early to talk about arming new GCV machine projects, but from the published materials it follows the fact that it will also continue the “tradition”. Main weapon in the form of a 30- or 40-millimeter automatic cannon and an additional machine gun (caliber 7,62 or 12,7 millimeter) has long established itself in the best way and it is unlikely that the US military will make a serious change to this set. Is that the requirements for the barrel weapons will be added to the wishes of the automatic grenade launchers or anti-tank missiles. But this area is not something revolutionary new.

It should be noted that the tested and developed infantry fighting vehicles are not the sole purpose of the GCV program. In addition to the BMP itself, this program involves the creation on its base of self-propelled howitzers and so-called. secondary car. Regarding self-propelled guns, it is known that the caliber of the gun will be at least 100 millimeters, but almost nothing is known about the “secondary machine”. At the moment, the military and engineers did not publish detailed information about this type of equipment. Most likely, such a strange term is understood as a universal platform for command-staff, ambulance, evacuation and similar machines. However, confirmation of this version has not yet been. But the customer and the developer say quite a lot about the requirements for the electronics of the promising BMP. The communication, navigation and targeting systems of the vehicle must be fully compatible with the unified communications and control system BCT Network that is being created.

Modified BMP M2А3 Bradley on the tests of the GCV program of the US Army at the White Sands range. May 2012 of the year


There is evidence that by the end of June, the analysis of the information obtained in comparative tests will be completed. Further, all the data will be transferred to the relevant departments of the Pentagon, as well as companies engaged in the development of new infantry fighting vehicles. Accordingly, the appearance of projects can change significantly. At the same time, the adjustment of projects is unlikely to be long and laborious. It is obvious that the developers themselves, represented by GD and BAE Systems, have long been working with the military on the requirements for their developments. However, unfortunately, the degree of adjustment of projects in accordance with the results of comparative tests under the NDV subroutine can be discussed only when the customer and developers deign to show the world not only finished BMP, but also working materials on projects.

Stryker on the tests of the GCV program of the US Army at the White Sands range. May 2012 of the year


On the materials of the sites:
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
http://army.mil/
http://bctmod.army.mil/
48 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. itr
    +4
    19 June 2012 10: 14
    what variety is even shocking
  2. +3
    19 June 2012 10: 39
    When the choice comes, the more pretenders the better, it’s even strange that the Americans began to test for themselves both Israeli and Swedish models. Of all the preceding ones, I prefer Namer - a well-armored base, the weapon system can be upgraded, if the Yankees want a 30 mm gun, you can place an uninhabited module with remote control. The Israelis are testing with blood and sweat each new weapon and equipment.
    1. 0
      19 June 2012 11: 09
      Glad for the Americans, if at least in this ours will be equal to them!
    2. gor
      gor
      0
      23 June 2012 14: 29
      I intend to be good, but the biggest drawback of the intention is not armament, but weight. With such a weight, it is very difficult to transfer equipment in a short time.
  3. Svistoplyaskov
    +5
    19 June 2012 11: 06
    Of the "foreign cars" I like Marder more:

    Marder at Eurosatory 2012
    1. Tirpitz
      +1
      19 June 2012 13: 36
      Is this a modification, or is it a new marder?
      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        +2
        19 June 2012 13: 57
        This is just an option with a new tower and modular protection.
    2. DERWISH
      +1
      20 June 2012 03: 21
      THING !!!!! especially the rearview mirror painfully looks like KAMAZ
  4. +1
    19 June 2012 11: 17
    An interesting review. Many thanks to the author. It’s somewhat unclear what kind of goals the creators pursue. One platform is indispensable. There is a certain inertia in thinking when creating technology. I was also struck by the size of the structures. A vertical height of over 2 meters is a good target.
  5. PabloMsk
    -1
    19 June 2012 11: 23
    Quote: Serg32
    It’s good that the enemies don’t get along, especially the termination of the FCS program, it really would be a new car, and they still have to use the upgraded Bradley, they have no other alternative.


    They are not our enemies .... there are no enemies around us in principle!
    They should be allies, but we are looking for enemies all around ...
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      +10
      19 June 2012 14: 05
      Remember Alain Dales, Brzezinski. They consider us a second-rate nation, where I live in Siberia, they consider it an international territory, threaten the Arctic. And for them we are just a raw material base. So there is not any friendship, and never will be. And believe me, I myself do not want to mix with Asians who are alien to us in everything. Or with those for whom repeated reading of the first sura means expulsion from all diseases. Just for the West, we are strangers and have always been them. The east is just the same worse because it is trickier and tougher. They, like the West, want to use and subjugate us. Won China just breaks into the Arctic. Rather, we need to be on our own, that's all, to live our own way and not to look at anyone, we need to pursue a policy ofizationalism and nationalism, ideally, of course.
    2. Larus
      +3
      19 June 2012 16: 15
      That's right, we are enemies for them, but we don’t. Therefore, we need to smile more and give in more, although nowhere else. Such a policy has led us to F for the last 25 years ... It remains only to wait for the next raid from there to our country.
  6. +3
    19 June 2012 11: 29
    To me personally, from the ones represented - Israelite Nomer likes --- Jews know how to protect people. And Bradley ame-rams need to be changed unambiguously.
    1. Mr. Truth
      +1
      19 June 2012 13: 55
      This is a warrior, even in the corner of the future DPM Desert is dressed, it is shave shave.
      1. +2
        19 June 2012 15: 00
        Like Warrior, I messed up a bit. It would be better.
    2. Alexey Prikazchikov
      0
      19 June 2012 22: 35
      The intent is very specific to the Israelis; this is the best BMP for other armies is a difficult question. Imagine it anywhere in a wooded or marshy area. Plus, again, the merkava chassis. It is simply not even economically viable to accept.
    3. FTALL
      0
      20 June 2012 19: 53
      well, where does the thief besides this guy got out and put out it is just a Molotov cocktail thrown by the demonstrators .. he got on his clothes only because the hatch was open
  7. Nechai
    0
    19 June 2012 13: 18
    Quote: AK-74-1
    Struck also by the size of the structures. A vertical height of more than 2 meters is a good target.

    "Well, very big! And nteen $ mulons! Yesterday and today, and tomorrow too ...
    Quote: PabloMsk
    No they us no enemies .... no around us enemies in principle!

    Paul! Are you serious? No kidding? If "yes", can you decipher your interpretation of "us", "us", etc.
  8. Mr. Truth
    +1
    19 June 2012 14: 09
    By types of machines and their manufacturers, you can really assess the state of affairs in the US military industry and the defense ministry.
    First, these are completely different machines, of different types, (heavy and medium infantry fighting vehicles and the Stryker wheeled vehicle), this speaks not of the scope of the mind, but of the narrowness, the tests should be carried out among the machines according to "weight categories" and not so "I’ll screw up a bunch of everyone” ...
    The second is the direct visibility of the confrontation of the Bae Systems and General Motors.
    without a tower bradley and a striker, they are tested to replace the M113 BTR and the one who wins will receive 1-2 billion annually.
    in general, what’s going on with them there with armor is not entirely clear to me.
    I watched the 65-ton freak that they (BAE) posted in PDF format, I didn't see anything "future" there. All the arrogance about supercars has evaporated, and behaves as if nothing was said about it.
    Moreover, the Americans themselves do not know what they want, then they wanted a 20-ton vehicle, then a 70-ton one, then they want an "objective" brigade of 11500 tons of weight to squeeze in, what kind of military construction is this? And they also take an example from them.
    1. 0
      19 June 2012 16: 41
      I completely agree. First, it is necessary to determine the concept of the use of armed forces, and then develop a technical characteristics under it.
      The event held is more likely not a look at the technology itself, but a study of its possible suppliers - who is stronger in what. Therefore, they will probably develop something new, but using the reserve on existing models.
      1. 0
        19 June 2012 22: 01
        I agree with you.
        It seems to me that amers cannot decide whether there will be a 3rd world war or not.
        If so, then Bradley. (mobility, mass).
        If not (local conflicts in a limited area)
        - that is Namer. and so expensive and heavy, in a word a tank.

        Well, or decide on a 2-type BMP, which is unprofitable.
        1. Mr. Truth
          0
          20 June 2012 09: 15
          Mass will not be, they need only 50-60 battalions.
  9. Alexey Prikazchikov
    0
    19 June 2012 14: 18
    I don’t know how you guys are, but I like Swedish bmp more. The intention is more suitable for Israeli conditions. And the Siwi is versatile, plus many options have been developed for it, and again the weapons.
  10. Diesel
    +2
    19 June 2012 15: 20
    All BMPs seem to be somewhat bulky, impassable and awkward and weigh about 50 tons, and I would like to know the price per unit)
  11. +5
    19 June 2012 15: 36
    It’s interesting and the results will be published? And I understand that we are not talking about the procurement of any of the presented machines, but only about the study.

    In principle, our cuts look at the level - lighter than Namer, the defenses of the Swede, the choice of weapons is also decent - I’m not talking about the cost.
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      -1
      19 June 2012 15: 41
      A suo and a navigation complex, such as control devices which in the West already, as in aviation, began to increase situational awareness. But what about the camera to improve the visibility of the rule and at the same time survival on the battlefield. IMHO, the lion's share of everything is now taken by electronics, and without a good electronics your bmp is just a tin.
      1. +3
        19 June 2012 15: 43
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        A suo a navigation complex as for example control devices

        Every whim for your money.
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          0
          19 June 2012 21: 40
          Hospodi uvas technology is for these vagaries and? So that it was like on Merov BMPs or from Bay systems? Or will you shove a foreign.?
          1. +2
            19 June 2012 23: 46
            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            and uvaz is technology for these vagaries and

            Of course there is, but no, we’ll buy it from Israel.
            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            So that it was like on Merov BMPs or from Bay systems?

            What's so special about it? There are Ukrainian combat modules, video cameras - yes there are as many of them.
            No need to complicate, I ask you, then you become ridiculous.
            1. Alexey Prikazchikov
              +1
              20 June 2012 00: 51
              To western suo you are like to the moon cancer and no one will sell you a nova. You always need something to share with a partner in order to get the latest technology. In addition to thermal imagers, you do not do them either. Plus the quality of the armament of these modules, let me say laughing to put it mildly, leaves much to be desired. And most importantly, in Ukraine, the production culture is completely lost. Just compare the western crawled out bmp and yours. Even the Czech modernization of BMP2 looks like candy.
              1. 0
                20 June 2012 01: 22
                Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                To the western suo you like the moon to cancer

                US? Again ridiculous.
                And what kind of Super Suo is on BMP?
                Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                In addition to thermal imagers, you do not do them either

                I say - any whim for your money, the price is higher, there will be a thermal imager.
                Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                nobody will sell you

                US? We will be sold.
                Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                Plus the quality of the armament of these modules, let me say

                Everyone in BTR 4 accepted into Iraq and said thanks.
                Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                And the most important thing in Ukraine is completely lost the production culture

                unfounded statement refuted by deliveries to Iraq, Thailand, etc.
                Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                Just compare the western crawled bmp and your

                So do it?
                Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                Even the Czech modernization of BMP2 looks like candy.

                The Christmas trees are sticks, how funny you are, I just walk around with you, I still remember about the drone UAV in 2014 and the next day an article about them.
                1. Alexey Prikazchikov
                  -1
                  20 June 2012 01: 35
                  Oh, on curainine, a great electronic industry suddenly appeared? No one will sell you competitors to produce more expensive things. The deal with Iraq and Thailand had primarily a political connotation if you have the brains yourself you will come if your problems are not. About the defects of your technology, only the lazy did not say look for everything on the network. As for the UAV, it’s the announcement of kb, we don’t forget we have a lot of companies that deal with this, and I talked about the first samples so do not distort. By God, they are wretched like chews, you can immediately see the Ukrainian.
                  1. 0
                    20 June 2012 09: 51
                    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                    Oh, on curainine, a great electronic industry suddenly appeared?

                    As with all, hardware components are purchased in China and Taiwan.
                    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                    No one will sell you competitors to produce more expensive things.

                    They will sell, thermal imagers sell vectors, engines ---- we will not buy centaurs, and electronic components are sold separately.
                    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                    The deal with Iraq and Thailand had primarily political implications

                    Well, you have the same thing, and even sell it without money.
                    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                    if you have brains yourself

                    I doubt yours, after such washing, they have vryatli what remains.
                    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                    About the defects of your equipment, only the lazy did not say look for everything on the network

                    If you look, then the Thai contract was canceled last year and they are being procured at UVZ.
                    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                    As for the UAV, it’s the announcement of kb, we don’t forget we have a lot of companies that deal with this, and I talked about the first samples

                    C'mon, don’t get away --- from the swell you already burst to the fullest, about the first samples, just don’t cry.
                    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                    By God, they are wretched like chews, you can immediately see the Ukrainian.

                    Compared to you (not Russians, but this particular individual who has undergone zombies), I'm just a god.
      2. Diesel
        0
        19 June 2012 19: 59
        The camera and super navigation will not save her from an RPG-7 shot) But a tin can deliver infantry and quickly topple it and it will do it faster than this technological miracle
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          0
          19 June 2012 21: 42
          And if the carrier is poorly guided by the battlefield, then nothing at all will be possible. And against RPGs there are anti-cumulative screens.
  12. passmel33
    -6
    19 June 2012 17: 34
    What is being done with the country where the authorities are looking?
    Somehow I stumbled upon a site to search for people http://ydn.ru/fpoisk
    Here you can find information about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries.
    I'm really scared - twist like that any nit-picking can come in and see.
    Addresses, best friends, relatives, above all, for example, there are my photos, phone number.
    It’s good that you can delete, find your page - pass the check and delete
    And then there is nobody who is looking for ...
  13. Ilyich
    +2
    19 June 2012 18: 08
    Oh, how huge they are! In theory, a shot from an RPG should catch well good
    1. FTALL
      +1
      19 June 2012 19: 07
      the main thing is that there would be no shells in bo laughing they burn quickly atoms ... here the shells in the fighting compartment are not separated from the corpse, and when the shells begin to burn, the pilgrims are fried and the burning becomes explosive as a result of the Pakhomis without frenzy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= ICOAudFg6uI
      1. Ilyich
        0
        20 June 2012 03: 04
        FTALLon the contrary: let it be better. More fun bonfires wink
  14. Diesel
    0
    19 June 2012 20: 14
    Quote: FTALL
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcOAudFg6uI


    Smiled! plus you, is it a striker or love?
    1. FTALL
      0
      20 June 2012 15: 59
      laughing this is a famous trick flying tower in this case t 72 asada army
  15. Abramovich
    +1
    19 June 2012 20: 43
    "Namer" is a thing! I had a chance to ride on Namer's great-grandfather, on "Akhzarit" -

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D1%85%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82

    even that armored personnel carrier based on old T-55 tanks was very reliable)
  16. CC-20a
    0
    19 June 2012 22: 22
    As is customary to shout from critics of the whole Russian ... coffins on wheels ... now you can kick the ball ...
    Fuuuu, shame on the West !!! Shvetskaya BMP - a coffin on wheels !, the protection is not better than the BTR-80 ... the drain of years has passed and the west of the current current has caught up with our Soviet level in 1980 laughing
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      +1
      19 June 2012 22: 31
      Firstly, the Swede is much better in protection than the BMP 3 about the BTR 89, I do not even speak. Secondly, there is luxurious electronics and that’s all now. Thirdly, she suffers better undermines. And in the fourth, it can be used as a fully universal chassis. That is, the whole team is on the same platform, and this is already an economic advantage. I already say that there is a possibility of modular ext. hang armor, or screens or dynamic protection and active protection. Plus a bunch of modules from it, even a light tank can be made.
      1. CC-20a
        -1
        19 June 2012 23: 56
        Actually, I just had a banter over Westerners, but oh well, since I answered you so seriously without a banter

        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        Firstly, the Swede is much better in defense than the BMP 3

        Not much, both options die from RPG.
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        Secondly, there is a luxurious electronics and that’s all now

        Not all! Electronics along with pluses have disadvantages, not the fact that a positive quality with a weak database intensity (local conflict) will not turn out to be a minus in a global war. It’s even more likely that one quality when attacking the United States against the Abarigans will give +, but against a comparable opponent it will turn into -.
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        Thirdly, she suffers better undermines.

        I heard a lot about the weakness for undermining our armored personnel carriers, but in fact nothing, but I’m familiar with Chechnya when they saw how an armored personnel carrier was blown up, the wheels broke off, the axle broke but the car remained on the move ... All these screams about our armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and mine protection are 99% is just PR of the West and a problem sucked from a finger. One thing I know for sure, everyone who is more or less sane and in the know, they will all say that where the bir80 explodes there and the ravings shatter into pieces, plus the myth is not a myth, but I believe in it ... that on our technology survival is better under equal conditions of the power of detonation. Generally so! Based on the fact that the BTR80 does not withstand a 152mm landmine under the bottom, the pro-Westerners conclude that the BTR is bad, but for some reason they are silent that not a single BTR and BMP of the west survive on such a charge.
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        And in the fourth, it can be used as a fully universal chassis

        At what plan?
        In terms of what can armored personnel carriers do and can do with a gun? so this is a long time ago that we have almost all types of weapons, pfff ... the same bt80 had developments with a large-caliber weapon, but if you compare bmp with bmp, the same bmp3 has a bunch of different types of turrets. So, in this regard, the USSR did everything a long time ago ... and now in the West they have finally come to this ... and all the difference between them and us is the current in PR ... they just scream and PR most! but they don’t have anything new and over interesting that we don’t have or didn’t have in the developments! This is without cheers of patriotism is simply dry in fact.
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        the possibility of modular ext. hang armor
        We also have BMP3 with additional armor, you did not say anything new.
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        screens or dynamic protection and active protection
        We have the same thing for a long time, well, except for dz for bmp, we have recently
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        Plus a bunch of modules from it, even a light tank can be made.

        From the tractor, you can also dazzle the tank
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          +1
          20 June 2012 00: 57
          Everything is very controversial over the bombings, our guys upstairs do not go from a good life. In defense, the western armored personnel carriers were always higher simply because there the attitude to the life of the soldiers was different. Dazhtank does not always hold about RPGs, but you can still defend yourself anyway we wrote above. By the way, ours, too, is burning from RPG. In electronics, it is designed for such loads, plus greatly simplifies life in the database and this is an additional chance for the living to return. You know about the tractor you too poorly understand the purpose of such machines.
          Learn about the universal chassis before you say anything. In general, learn and self-educate.

          1. CC-20a
            -1
            20 June 2012 17: 38
            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            Everything is very controversial over the bombings, our guys upstairs do not go from a good life.

            And from a bad life chtoli?
            Tell me where are the more likely to survive:
            a) Sitting on armor btr80
            or
            b) Sitting Inside the stalker's armor (armored personnel carrier usa)
            Answer:
            1 - when a landmine is detonated based on 122mm-152mm
            2 - when fired from an RPG.

            Depending on the answer, it will be clear whether or not to talk with you.

            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            In defense, the western armored personnel carriers were always higher simply because the attitude there was different

            Lies, the only right attitude is different, but for better or worse this is a moot point. With what kind of love will you treat the commander in the United States if he shoves you inside their armored personnel carrier and says ride along the serpentine where there is green around and you know that there are a couple of militants with RPGs ahead ...
            laughing
            If only we had an attitude towards the soldiers, what do you think, then we would still go inside the armored personnel carrier as amers ... but thank God we have smart people and not PR managers like in the USA.

            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            Dazhtank does not always hold about RPGs, but you can still defend yourself anyway we wrote above.

            The tank is a separate speech, but .. in your opinion, ours can not and do not want to?
            In general, unlike PR and myth, I am aware that they are sitting on the armor not because it is easier to jump off, but because they defend themselves, protect armor from militants with RPGs, and not because mines, etc.
            And judging by how amers travel in Iraq, they generally do not see anything ahead of them.

            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            By the way, ours, too, is burning from RPG.

            And if you don’t see the difference then ....

            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            In electronics, it is designed for such loads.

            Yes, there are attempts to make electronics reliable, but physics cannot be trampled on, according to the law "the more complex the system, the less reliable" That is, no matter how you improve the electronics in the APC, without this electronics the APC will be more reliable anyway!
            In practice, electronics showed that even the abrams was disabled from machine guns, it seems that this error was corrected, but how much did not notice this is a matter of a real war. By the way, electronics requires a lot of additional components from wires to power supply and all this is scattered throughout the armored personnel carrier, so 1 hole in the body of the armored personnel carrier with electronics will most likely damage the armored personnel carrier and there may be a fire, that is, the armored personnel carrier 80 is several tens of times less critical points defeat than the Swede for example.
            This is a word about survivability, which for some reason many forget.

            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            greatly facilitates life in the database and these are additional chances for the living to return.

            Partly yes, but I described some minuses above. But I’ll correct you, it’s not electronics that makes life easier and chances to survive, but means of detecting and suppressing the enemy — that there is no electronics.

            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            You know about the tractor, you too poorly understand the purpose of such machines.
            Come on belay . And then you do not know the story at all.

            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            Learn about the universal chassis before you say anything. In general, learn and self-educate.

            What are you saying ... oooh how everything is started then)
            Well, let's figure it out.
            Universal - suitable for many very different cases, applications.
            We look BMP-3 ... on its own chassis is:
            BRM-3K "Lynx"
            BREM-L "Runaway"
            2C18 "Pat-S" and 2C31 "Vienna" - Sau
            Object 699 - [b] universal tracked chassis.
            UR-93 and UR-07
            9P157-2 and 9P157-4 and 9P162
            TKB-841
            ADZM "Vostorg-2
            BMEM-3
            I counted only 10 different machines for different purposes on the basis of one chassis, while many different cases of destinations indicate the versatility of the chassis, in addition, the Prem 699 object calls it directly.
            You can also about the E300 chassis; it's about versatility too.

            Let's see what they tell us in fact about the Swedish BMP
            BMP CV90
            - with a 30mm gun
            - with 120mm AMOS
            - with a 40mm gun
            - ARV
            .. basically the same thing ... they just change the tower and sometimes they hang it with extra armor.

            And it turns out why the same thing! it is interpreted differently ... if the western one, then cool universal chassis, and if the same, but ours is no longer cool and no longer universal O_o. Double standards again.

            And so we found out one thing! all the versatility of the chassis of the Swede is simply the use of different towers, which can be done on the BMP-3 and BTR-80, there would be a desire and a need. For example, the BTR-80 chassis was used as a universal chassis for systems such as -
            1В152 - unified command and observation point KSAUO 1V126 "Kapustnik-B"
            1L29 "Mercury-B" - jamming station for radio-fuses of ammunition SPR-2
            2S23 "Nona-SVK" - 120-mm self-propelled artillery gun
            BMM-80 - an armored vehicle for the evacuation of the wounded
            BRVM-K - armored recovery vehicle
            BRDM-3 - armored reconnaissance and patrol vehicle
            BREM-K - armored recovery and recovery vehicle
            GAZ-59037 - civilian SUV
            GAZ-59402 "Purga" - an armored fire engine on a combined rail and air-wheel drive
            9S482M6 - Russian mobile control center for air defense units
            RHM-4 - armored vehicle for chemical and radiation reconnaissance
            RHM-6 - armored vehicle for chemical and radiation reconnaissance
            R-149BMR "Kushetka-B" - command post vehicle
            ZS-88 - broadcasting station
            About BTR-82A / B, I will not say anything, and so I think enough.

            So sir about the mat part ... no .. more precisely, about understanding the essence of the issue and separating the husk from the grain (truth from PR and lies), you should strain a little.
        2. -1
          20 June 2012 09: 30
          All these shouts about our armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and mine protection are 99% just PR of the West and the problem sucked from a finger.

          Only here the fighters think differently.
          1. CC-20a
            0
            20 June 2012 16: 53
            These fighters believe that it’s better to sit on top of your armored vehicles,



            than in a zinc coffin



            So our fighters are smarter than yours)
            1. 0
              20 June 2012 17: 02
              You already decide or All these screams about our armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and mine protection are 99% just PR of the West and the problem sucked from a finger or These fighters believe that it’s better to sit on top of your armored personnel carriers и sitting on the armor "so well protected armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles"

              I’ll ask you even easier: If the BMP and the armored personnel carrier are so well protected from mines, why do the fighters ride them exclusively riding on armor? what
              1. CC-20a
                0
                20 June 2012 17: 46
                I did not say anywhere and did not write that the armored personnel carrier and infantry fighting vehicles are well protected from mines.
                Neither yours nor ours, all armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, with the exception of heavy infantry fighting vehicles weighing over 55 tons, they all die equally from mine explosions and from RPG hits. But the soldier survives undermining and shelling with RPGs most of all where they sit on the armor and not inside.

                Although ... God forbid, your citizens will find out about this, that will be a cry) laughing
                1. +1
                  20 June 2012 17: 59
                  I did not say anywhere and did not write that the armored personnel carrier and infantry fighting vehicles are well protected from mines.

                  Who wrote this? All these shouts about our armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and mine protection are 99% just PR of the West and the problem sucked from a finger.

                  Neither yours nor ours, all armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, with the exception of heavy infantry fighting vehicles weighing over 55 tons, they all die equally from mine explosions and from RPG hits.

                  Again, breed demagoguery? To test the resistance to mines, for example, there is a STANAG standard according to which BMPs and armored personnel carriers are checked. For example, a Stryker with a double V-shaped bottom meets the x standard level, but what about the BTR-80 with this?

                  But the soldier survives undermining and shelling with RPGs most of all where they sit on the armor and not inside.

                  Again your fantasies. It turns out that the NATO troops are driving their fighters into armor, although there are fewer chances to survive and then they pay millions of insurance to families. Do you think they completely forgot how to count money?
                  1. CC-20a
                    -1
                    20 June 2012 19: 18
                    Quote: professor
                    Who wrote this? All these screams about наших BTR and BMP and mine protection is 99% just PR of the West and the problem sucked from the finger.

                    I wrote and wrote clearly, I wrote "Ours", not all. Then he wrote that all this is PR, because your armored personnel carriers and bmps are like coffins on wheels, they are silent (maybe they are afraid to rot in guantanumo winked in the name of "democracy").
                    So the words are true, but your understanding and distortion is not true and shameful;)

                    Quote: professor
                    Again, breed demagoguery? To test the resistance to mines, for example, there is a STANAG standard according to which BMPs and armored personnel carriers are checked. For example, a Stryker with a double V-shaped bottom meets the x standard level, but what about the BTR-80 with this?

                    I have the same APC, I repeat for especially stubborn Jews. The BTR-80, like your striker with a shaped bottom, is equally killed by the 122mm land mine.

                    Quote: professor
                    Again your fantasies. It turns out that the NATO troops are driving their fighters into armor, although there are fewer chances to survive and then they pay millions of insurance to families. Do you think they completely forgot how to count money?

                    That’s exactly how they can count, the amer’s contracts clearly stipulate the conditions of death, inside the armored personnel carrier - one amount, for the armored personnel carrier a different amount or even its absence.
                    And about whether they can count or not, the US government does not know how to unequivocally) otherwise f22 was not so expensive, but in general money for the USA is a green piece of paper that costs nothing, but for the dead soldiers (their families) it costs something.
                    1. 0
                      20 June 2012 20: 13
                      I have the same APC, I repeat for especially stubborn Jews. The BTR-80, like your striker with a shaped bottom, is equally killed by the 122mm land mine.

                      The bottom is in your mind, but for armored vehicles "bottom".
                      You didn’t see the STANAG standard in your eyes, but you yourself are a specialist however !!! wassat

                      That’s exactly how they can count, the amer’s contracts clearly stipulate the conditions of death, inside the armored personnel carrier - one amount, for the armored personnel carrier a different amount or even its absence.

                      You are not just a young dreamer - you are just a LIAR. Such a small liar. You are not able to confirm anything that you invented, neither about the Germans' preference for VAZ products over the German auto industry, nor about resistance to BTR-80 mines, but now another lie about non-existing paragraphs in the contract of American soldiers.
                      Well, at least one of your words, confirm, you are our troll. Especially focus on "the conditions of death are clearly specified, inside an armored personnel carrier - one amount, for an armored personnel carrier another amount or its absence at all". Show us the contract, at least one. At least one page, plizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
                      And then you still think that the conditions of death are clearly stipulated there, if the cowards are inside out then he will not receive insurance. laughing
                      1. Common sense
                        +1
                        20 June 2012 22: 20
                        Will not answer)
                        This is one of the type of people whose conviction of lying does not lead to shame but to aggression ..
                      2. +3
                        21 June 2012 01: 38
                        To convict a person of a lie, you must at least refute him, but this is just an unreasonable and unconfirmed insult, unworthy of an adult and already "gray-haired" person. And it's incomprehensible! How does the STANAG standard relate to the specifically mentioned BTR 80? Explain? But on the merits of the issue, he is right. Below are specific examples about the CV90, Romanian BTR70 (?), And Spanish. BMR600, the PUMA explosions were still shining. I was not interested in the Strykers (they were not included in the mater. Articles), but I am sure that Res. The same. No machine that is not prepared according to MRAP does not tolerate explosions BETTER!
                      3. -1
                        21 June 2012 09: 22
                        quote] To convict a person of a lie, you must at least refute him, [/ quote]
                        In adults, it is customary to confirm their at least controversial statements. If the "opponent" declares that he flew to the moon, then it is he and only he who must provide evidence of this, and not others "refute him" citing evidence, etc. And his statements like "the Internet is big - find your own refutations" are held only in kindergarten.

                        [quote] Below I give specific examples about CV90, Romanian BTR70 (?), [/ quote]
                        In your specific examples, the equipment was blown up on the same landmines (mass indicated?) In equal conditions? Then how can they be compared at all?
                        For comparison and standardization, and came up with the one I mentioned standard.
                      4. +2
                        21 June 2012 13: 38
                        Attempt number 2.
                        Yes, let's say it is clear that he is not an "adult", but it is not clear why you are unreasonably calling him a liar? To accuse a person of lying, he must at least be caught in it. Where and in what did you convict him? Are these simply unfounded emotional insults from an "adult" person? Then what is the difference between you?
                        I would like to note right away that a discussion using quotation of the opponent's words and a critical refutation without providing factual material and reasoning looks a little degenerate and scars the "adult", thinking opponent.
                        The very methodology of investigating the cases of BTT undermining has an ABSOLUTE character and cannot be carried out otherwise, but otherwise, if you are able to provide two identical cases of undermining, then you can bring something new into science! And it is necessary to compare! I took approximately similar cases, was it really not clear a priori? I would also like to add a couple of clarifications on my own. The mass of the land mine, as you call it, can only be known by the performer! And a specialist investigating each specific case operates with the terms something like "the equivalent of the mass of explosives". But it is no less important to know the TYPE of svu (PMU, IED, sheathed, non-directional, directional action), the place of detonation (soil, asphalt), even the time! (Temp. Air day night) and, of course, the obligatory study of the place of detonation.
                        The answer to the question: what is the relation between the STANAG standard and the BTR 80 mentioned in the text, which is not satisfied, in order to compare the BTR 80 with something STANAG came up with? Sounds silly.
                        The "simple" example with the moon is generally out of the way of communication between "adults" people.
                        If you are going to appeal, I would like to read something informative and seriously substantiated.
                      5. -1
                        21 June 2012 14: 10
                        The young man is lying (if he wrote that "in his opinion," he would simply be wrong, and so he is lying) in particular about the existence of some ridiculous clauses in the contract.

                        I would like to note right away that a discussion using quotation of the opponent's words and a critical refutation without providing factual material and reasoning looks a little degenerate and scars the "adult", thinking opponent.

                        In your opinion, it is necessary to "provide factual material" for every nonsense of opponents? I just think that factual material should be provided to the one who presents his fantasies as a common truth. Otherwise, try to prove that I did not fly to the moon on a secret mission.

                        if you manage to provide two identical cases of undermining, then you can turn something new into science!

                        This brought it to science before me. This is called standardization of experiments. In the West (and recently not only) they use the STANAG standard, in Russia they use GOST, which indicates how, where to lay explosives under the test sample. Based on this test, a certain degree of protection is assigned or not assigned to the sample. So if someone claims that the BTR-80 is better protected from mines, then he needs to prove the level of protection in accordance with the accepted standard. For example, the Turkish ARMA armored personnel carrier has mine protection level IIIB STANAG 4569. In order to compare its protection with BTR-80 for example, it is necessary to check this protection against the same standard. Real combat losses cannot be compared.

                        Here is an example for you, as an "adult", of a methodology for assessing the protection of armored vehicles from the effects of mines. Read at your leisure.
                        http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA473218
                      6. +2
                        21 June 2012 15: 10
                        Again you have not caught the young man in a lie. This can only be done with factual material. And you again choose from two of his statements that is beneficial to YOU. This I would call not sovm an honest reception. And it is only with factual material that one can "beat" the opponent, and not compete with him in idleness using only remarks.
                        And in the second post and trying to debate you again "a little" jerk and jump off the topic of detonating BT in combat conditions and frankly trying to blur this topic. Nobody argued that the BTR 80 is better protected from mines better! It was only stated that the result would be approximately one. And I will be glad to hear about the "identical" cases of detonation of BT in combat conditions. And I'm glad that you still noticed. that GOST and STANAG are not the same thing, and that the BTR * 0 has nothing to do with STANAG!
                      7. +2
                        21 June 2012 15: 33
                        It is because of the existence of differences in standards and approaches in testing equipment for undermining combat losses and their analysis that is the only way to compare.
                        Although in many ways very subjective, but nonetheless - the only and visual one.
                      8. FTALL
                        0
                        21 June 2012 02: 15
                        Quote: professor
                        You are not able to confirm anything that you invented,

                        He didn’t come up with it))) do you think that the hryusy can think and even invent laughing it's not a classic, well, how can you not know that, for example, Americans do not go into battle without a cold cola in the contract)) or they do not pay insurance without a flashlight)) on this occasion, there is even a video where an oink like who served with amers tells everyone who is oink TV military secret and shock strength watched knows :)) every piggy must know how it is like "grandfathers fought" kalash is the best part of cultural when piggy lol you’ve already spoiled apparently oily, you have lost some of the cultural code so soon you will cease to be oryus laughing
                  2. +2
                    21 June 2012 16: 16
                    The Double-V Hull (DVH) V-Stryker is a model from almost 2011 and it is not correct to compare these machines. Prietom Stryker of this MOD. will be in service with two of the eight Striker brigades. But the Striker of 2003 and the BTR 80 of 1984, about to undermine the same thing with its own nuances and of course in my opinion.
  17. survivor
    0
    20 June 2012 01: 25
    In any case, such a mastodon on a city street during a battle is a collective coffin!
  18. Messerschmitt
    +2
    20 June 2012 02: 59
    And in the city - a chain, with a gun at the ready! wink
  19. +1
    21 June 2012 01: 21
    Not a single machine that has been prepared according to the MCI can tolerate explosions BETTER! Of course, I don’t take tanks into account. What about the undermining of the Norwegian CV90 (left in the photo), that the undermining of the Romanian BTR70, that undermining the Spanish BMR600 there is only one result - to the landfill and the death of a crew member nearest to the place of detonation. shone, but I am sure that the result is the same. On the CV90, a mechanical drive, on the BTR79, a mechanical drive, on the BMR600, two - a mechanical drive (note 3 incidents) and a medical officer. And between cars just a temporary oversleep of adoption.

    Get well soon! Mine Resistant Ambush Protected. I also mean tracked vehicles.
  20. +2
    21 June 2012 02: 03
    Another hit was an interesting tracked vehicle BvS10 Viking British headquarters. Two crew members were killed - corporal and lieutenant colonel. This is the case of the death of Her Majesty's highest military rank.