Nuclear submarines - carriers of cruise missiles: reality and prospects

67
Around the middle of the XNUMXth century to this day, an integral element of the Naval fleet The USSR, and now Russia, are submarines (submarines) with cruise missiles. Given the overall backlog of our country's fleet in relation to NATO fleets, especially in terms of aircraft-carrying ships, anti-ship missiles (ASM) have always been given special attention.

The first cruise missiles designed to be placed on submarines were the P-5 and P-6 missiles, developed in the late fifties and early sixties. The missiles were housed in airtight containers and intended to launch from a surface position.




Cruise missile P-5


Subsequently, this direction received significant development, as a result of which, at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the submarine fleet had such highly efficient anti-ship missiles as Granit P-700, for hitting surface ships, and C-10 Granat strategic cruise missiles with nuclear war part, to destroy ground targets.


Anti-ship missile P-700 "Granit"


The main carriers of anti-ship missiles P-700 "Granit" are currently nuclear-powered submarines with cruise missiles (SSGN) of the 949A project. Each of these submarines carries 24 rockets. Due to the impressive dimensions of the Granit missiles, the SSGNs of the 949A project have an underwater displacement of 24 000 tons, which is comparable to the displacement of strategic missile carriers with ballistic missiles.


Nuclear submarine project 949A


By the time of the collapse of the USSR, the development of new missiles, such as the P-800 Onyx supersonic anti-ship missile (3М55) and the Caliber missile family, including the 3М-54 and КР 3М-14 missiles for the destruction of ground forces, were close to completion. . Also in the complex "Caliber" includes rocket-torpedoes (RT) 91Р1.
A distinctive feature of the new missiles was that they were initially considered for use from different types of carriers. Modifications of the PKR / KR / RT "Caliber" are placed on surface ships, submarines and ground carriers. Rockets P-800 "Onyx" are also adapted for aviation carriers. The smaller damaging capabilities of these types of missiles, due to the reduction in their dimensions, compared to the P-700 missiles, should be compensated for by the possibility of placing a larger number of missiles on carriers.

Also, the press is actively discussing the appearance in the near future in service of the hypersonic 3M22 Zircon rocket. In the case of its appearance, and compliance with the real characteristics of the declared, the fleet can get effective weapon for the destruction of surface ships of the enemy.


Estimated appearance of hypersonic anti-ship rocket "Zircon"


Termination of the Treaty on Intermediate-Range and Shorter-Range (DRDM) can lead to the emergence of other types of missiles. Despite the fact that the action of the INF squadron on the fleet did not extend, its cancellation may intensify the development of ballistic missiles with a range of several thousand kilometers, and their further “snagging” can lead to the appearance in the Russian Navy of analogs of the Chinese ballistic missile DF-21D designed to destroy surface ships.


So in the Chinese view, the attack of the US carrier strike group with DF-21D ballistic missiles


Since the Granit P-700 missiles are no longer being produced, their shelf lives are coming to an end, and the submarines of the 949A project have not yet exhausted their resources, it was decided to re-equip the SSGNs of the 949А project to accommodate Onyx and KR family "Caliber". Each upgraded submarine of the 800AM project will receive launchers for 949, to accommodate the specified types of missiles.
It is not known for certain how many SSGNs of the 949А project will be upgraded to the 949AM project, according to one data these will be four submarines, according to others all eight units that are in service with the Russian Navy.

There are polar points of view, according to which modern anti-ship missiles are invulnerable weapons that have transformed aircraft carriers into floating coffins, and vice versa that anti-ship missiles are unable to penetrate the aircraft carrier strike group (AUG) - most of the missiles will be destroyed by air defense, and the rest will lose their targets because of for interference.

Most likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The question is how much RCC is needed to destroy a group of surface ships. Agree that it is one thing to release the 24 "Granite" on the ship junction of Japan or Turkey, and another - on the full-fledged AUG of the US Navy. In addition, it is doubtful that the leadership of the Soviet Navy was so incompetent that it made a serious bet on rocket weapons.

Submarines, especially nuclear ones, can be considered one of the most effective carriers of anti-ship missiles. The maximum range of use of modern anti-ship missiles is about five hundred kilometers. For attacking the anti-ship missiles, for example, on an aircraft carrier strike group, it was supposed to concentrate significant surface forces or direct an air group as part of several regiments of the Tu-22М3. Such large groups can be detected by the enemy at a considerable distance, after which the latter will apply active countermeasures — he will lift deck-based aircraft into the air, turn on air defense radars, change course.
In turn, anti-submarine defense (PLO) at the turn of about five hundred kilometers is much less effective. The carrier group is accompanied by one or two multi-purpose hunter submarines. With all the desire, they will not be able to control the area over 785 000 square kilometers. If the actual range of the P-800 missiles is 600 km, then it is necessary to monitor the water area of ​​over one million square kilometers.
Anti-submarine helicopters at such a range do not work, their line is 20-30 kilometers. Deck planes PLO carry out anti-submarine defense at a distance of about 200 kilometers. Thus, the detection of a submarine at the turn of 500-600 kilometers can only be carried out by P-8A “Poseidon” PLO aircraft based on ground airfields.

Due to the difficulty of detecting enemy submarines at such a distance, the main means of countering anti-ship missiles surface ships are anti-aircraft defenses that ensure the physical destruction of the incoming missiles, and jammers designed to deceive missile guidance systems.

Nuclear submarines - carriers of cruise missiles: reality and prospects

Setting the masking curtain surface ship



Surface ship, covered by a masking curtain, in the visible and thermal range


It should be noted that at present the capabilities of air defense have increased markedly. This is due to the adoption of anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM) with an active radar homing head (ARGSN). The presence of such missiles in combination with the possibility of issuing target designation by long-range radar detection aircraft (ARLO) and fighter aircraft, allows air defense systems of surface ships to fire at low-flying anti-ship missiles, which are below the visibility level of the shipborne radar. This significantly increases the chances of AUG to reflect the impact. Gas-dynamic control is also being actively implemented, allowing the missile defense system to maneuver with overloads over 60g, which increases the probability of hitting high-speed maneuvering anti-ship missiles.

In turn, anti-ship missile measures are applied to reduce visibility, reducing the detection range of surface ships by DRLO and radar aircraft. According to unconfirmed data, own anti-jamming tools can also be placed on the anti-ship missiles, designed to disrupt the enemy’s anti-aircraft missiles. Another way to increase the likelihood of an enemy air defense breakthrough is to increase the speed of the missile. This method, presumably implemented in the Zircon rocket, allows to reduce to a minimum the time allotted to the ship to repel an attack. In general, the competition of the sword and shield continues.

The main problem that impedes the use of long-range CRP, is the issuance of target designation. For this, the MKRTS Legend system was deployed in the USSR — a system of global satellite-based maritime space reconnaissance and target designation. The MKRTS Legend system included passive US-P and active US-A reconnaissance satellites. US – P passive reconnaissance satellites are designed for electronic reconnaissance, the US-A active reconnaissance satellites included a radar capable of scanning the surface from an orbit of 270 km. This system is currently decommissioned.


Active Observation Satellite (US-A) of the Legend system


It should be noted that the altitude of the 270 km orbit makes the MKRTS Legend satellites vulnerable to modern US and Chinese anti-satellite weapons.

In exchange for MKRTS Legend, the Liana space reconnaissance system is being commissioned, which includes the Lotos-S (14F145) and Pion-NKS (14F139) satellites. The Lotos-S satellites are designed for passive radio intelligence, and the Pion-NKS for active radar reconnaissance. Permission "Pion-NKS" is about three meters, which allows you to detect ships, made with the use of technologies reduce visibility.


The Pion-NKS satellite of active radar reconnaissance included in the Liana system


According to various data, the orbit of the satellites of the Liana system is at an altitude from 500 to 1000 km. If so, they can be destroyed by SM-3 Block IIA missiles, with a hit zone that is up to 1500 km high. The SM-3 rockets and launch vehicles are available in the United States in significant numbers, and the SM-3 rocket cost is likely to be lower than the Legend satellite MKRTS system and the cost of putting it into orbit. On the other hand, it is necessary to take into account that only the USA and, to a lesser extent, the PRC, have such anti-satellite capabilities. In other countries, the possibilities for the destruction of objects in space are absent or limited. In addition, it is possible that Russian military satellites can counteract the destruction by jamming and / or adjusting the orbit.

In addition to satellite intelligence, reconnaissance aircraft AUG in the USSR were used by reconnaissance aircraft Tu-95РЦ and Tu-16Р. At the moment, these planes are decommissioned. In addition, the huge effective area of ​​dispersion (EPR) of these planes made it easy for NATO aircraft to detect them. In the event of a conflict, all the crews would likely be suicide bombers.

What opportunities for delivering massive PKP strikes will Russia have in the future? Unfortunately, the prospects are foggy. After the last SSGN 949AM’s withdrawal from the Navy, the maximum number of anti-ship missiles (32 missiles) will be carried by multipurpose nuclear submarines (MCPNP) of the 885 Severodvinsk project. These boats are planned to release only seven units in two fleets.
There is no reliable data for the Husky project. According to one information, this type of submarines will be carried out in different versions - a multi-purpose hunter boat, a carrier of cruise missiles, and even a boat carrier of ballistic missiles. On the other hand, it will be the YKSSP of the “Ash” type, but at a new technical level. In any case, so far there is no information that a SSGN will be created on the 70-100-150 CR / PCR base on the Husky.



Nuclear submarine project "Husky", the alleged appearance


The surface fleet has even less possibilities. In spite of the fact that almost pleasure boats are equipped with launching boats for CR / PKR, their total number is small. To organize a massive attack, the PCR will have to collect a whole “mosquito pack”. Seaworthiness and cruising range of corvettes, rocket boats and diesel submarines are limited.
The possibilities of aviation are bigger, but not by much. Each departure of a strategic bomber-missile carrier is monitored by NATO forces, what can we say about the departure of a dozen bomber bomber bomber simultaneously. In the case of the outbreak of hostilities, there is a chance that they will be intercepted before reaching the line of launching the missiles.

Do you need a SSGN for Russia? If we consider the need to counter the CBG or AUG of developed countries, then yes. The modern echeloned defense of the naval compound will be difficult to break through with a volley at thirty, and possibly at sixty PKR. In addition, given the shortage of multi-purpose SSNs, all YCSSLs of the Yasen type will most likely be involved in the task of covering strategic missile carriers. Prospects for the Husky project are vague, especially given the habits of our industry to shift deadlines.

What can be offered in this situation? Implement a new generation of SSGNs based on SSBNs of the Borey type 955A project, and possibly also of the 955B project. An example of processing SSBNs in SSGNs is available - they are American SSBNs / SSGNs of the Ohio type, and they were reequipped from ready-made boats. Despite the fact that the number of carriers of the Kyrgyz Republic from the US fleet is greater than that of all the fleets of other countries combined, they considered such a modernization expedient, and they actively use these boats.
The SSGN is not required to conduct an underwater war with enemy's submarines or to attack surface ships with torpedoes (although it can), therefore the 955А / B project looks optimal for creating a replacement for SSGN of the 949А / AM project.


Borey SSBN


In the coming years, the construction of a series of eight SSBMs of the Borey type will be completed (with the possibility of increasing the series by another two units). After that, on the liberated stocks, the SSGN can be laid on the basis of the 955А / B project. Spent during the construction of SSBN technology will allow to implement the project in the shortest possible time. The cost of the SSGN should not exceed the cost of the Borey-type SSBNs, and it may be reduced by increasing the series (most of the equipment will be unified with SSBNs). Even now, the 955A SSBN is cheaper than the 885 MTsPL project, so building four SSGNs does not greatly affect the construction program of multi-purpose SSNs (you still need to build many more).

Ammunition of the KR / PKR of a single SSGN based on the 955А / B project is expected to be on the order of the 100-120 КР / КР in the vertical start installations (УПП), i.e. one and a half times more than in the 949AM project, with the same displacement.

The required number of SSGNs for the Russian Navy can be estimated at four to eight units (two to four for the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet). Thus, there will be a smooth transition from the SSGN of the 949А / 949AM project to the SSGN based on the 955А / B project. It should also be noted that the 949 / 949А project was an uncompromising fighter with AUG, while the capabilities of the 949А and SSGN-based SSGNs will be much wider.

What tasks can solve the SSGN as part of the Russian fleet?
1. Destruction of warships and enemy ships operating as part of formations and groups, as well as singly. The first and obvious purpose is the fight against AUG. A volley in the 200-240 RCC with two SSGNs will "break through" any air defense. To ensure a similar launch density without a SSGN, all seven “Ash trees” from two fleets will be required. The surface fleet, without air cover, is unlikely to be allowed on the range of RCC launch to AUG. If the Zirkon PKR turns out to be as good as they are told about (8 Makhov on the entire flight path), then it is possible that a single SSGN will be enough to destroy the AUG.

2. Fight against KUG. Other countries' fleets that have weaker fleet support capabilities than the United States are much more vulnerable to a massive RCC attack, since will not be able to provide over-the-horizon guidance on anti-ship missiles. In other words, fleets of countries such as Japan, Turkey, and Norway can be shot by the anti-ship missiles from a long distance with almost no punishment (with target designation, to which we return later).

3. Violation of sea and ocean communications of the enemy. Destruction of convoys going from the USA to Europe. The attack of convoys by torpedoes will always be fraught with the risk of the loss of submarines from the enemy ASW forces. At the same time, the air defense of the convoys cannot be compared with the air defense of the CUG / AUG, therefore, in the presence of target designation, the SSGN will shoot ships from the convoys as ducks in the dash.


The range of a single SSGN during the interception of convoys from the USA to Europe


4. Destruction of important military and economic objects of the enemy on the coast and in the depths of its territory. Massive strikes of the Kyrgyz Republic on objects in the territory of the enemy or its military bases in other countries. A volley in 200-240 KR can cause significant damage to the economy of a developed state. Administrative institutions, power stations, bridges, large factories, and so on can be destroyed.
If the CD can be equipped with electromagnetic warheads (and they are real and effective), then striking them at major cities and industrial facilities of the enemy can cause a collapse of the enemy’s economy.
For the military, this means diverting additional forces to protect the bases, a constant stress effect on the personnel.


The range of the Kyrgyz Republic when striking in Japan


Another scenario is that the regime has changed in the former “friendly” state, and the loans issued earlier by the Russian Federation have decided not to return. By inflicting periodic strikes by the Kyrgyz Republic on the debtor’s government facilities, it is possible to put a new government before a choice - to pay off the loan, or to manage the country from the bunker. The cost of missiles included in the bill. Why? Israel is bombing neighbors, and nothing, we can also try to do so.

5. The implementation of mine productions. Modern sea mines, designed for use of torpedo tubes from 533 mm, may well be adapted to be placed in the CIP by two pieces per launcher. Thus, a mine attack of one SSGN can be 200-240 min. Close the straits, block the ships in the bays, mine ambushes on the way of the convoys.

6. The landing of reconnaissance and sabotage groups on the coast of the enemy. This task is being solved by modernized Ohio-type SSGNs. With appropriate equipment, it can be solved and SSGN based on the project 955А / B.

7. And finally, in the event of further aggravation of relations with the United States, and the breach of agreements on the limitation of nuclear weapons, the SSGNL can be armed with long-range defense and nuclear weapons. Accordingly, Russia's strategic arsenal can quickly be increased by 400-800 (480-960) warheads.

The task “Ensuring the deployment and combat stability of strategic missile submarines” will also be indirectly addressed. Almost identical appearance and acoustic signatures of the SSGN and Borey-type SSBNs can mislead the enemy's forces by redirecting them to tracking SSGNs instead of SSBNs.

Returning to the vital issue of targeting.
Firstly, it is certainly satellites. The development of the reconnaissance satellite constellation is important in the interests of all types of armed forces.
Protection of satellite constellation from destruction can be solved in several ways.
1. Equipping satellites with defensive systems - traps, jamming devices, advanced means of evasion / orbit correction. Perhaps this has already been implemented.
2. Increasing the orbit of satellites in order to minimize the probability of their being hit by “cheap” means of missile defense.
3. Development and deployment of low-orbit groups from compact, cheap but numerous satellites, following the example of satellite Internet projects. Output them bundles of 5-10-20 devices. Each individual satellite will yield to its “big” counterparts, but in the group they will solve problems no less effectively. The goal is to make the destruction of the satellite more expensive than bringing a new one. It will also allow the satellite constellation to be more resilient to the failure of one or more satellites.


Thousands of satellites for global coverage of the planet by the Internet


There should also be a reserve of satellites to ensure the possibility of rapid replenishment of the orbital group. They can be placed in advance in the mines of ballistic missiles or in the mines of the SSBNs in a state of high readiness for launch.

Regardless of the reality of the creation of the SSGN, the development of space intelligence is of paramount importance for all the armed forces of Russia.

The second effective option for reconnaissance and target designation is the creation of long-range reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) by analogy with the Triton MC-4C UAV.


Long duration UAV MC-4C Triton


UAV MC-4C Triton is designed to collect information, surveillance and intelligence. Flight radius is about 3700 km, flight altitude more than 18 km, autonomy 24 h. During one flight, it is able to control an area of ​​7 million square kilometers.

Russia has a significant lag in the part of the UAV, however, promising models are gradually emerging. In particular, the heavy-class Altair UAV, developed by JSC NPO OKB named after MP. Simonov. Flight range will be 10 000 km, ceiling 12 000 m. Flight duration 48 hours.


UAV long range "Altair"


Another interesting model is the Orion UAV, developed by Kronstadt (AFK Sistema). The radius of the flight will be 250 km, the ceiling 7500 m. The duration of the flight 24 hours.


Medium-altitude UAV "Orion"


It should be noted that an important problem of all Russian UAVs is the lack of high-speed satellite communications, which often limits the flight range and capabilities of the UAV for the transfer of reconnaissance data.

Summarizing, we can say that the presence in the Russian Navy of four or eight SSGNs with effective missile weapons, with a developed target designation system, will create a threat to any surface fleet of a potential enemy, any military base around the world. And this threat cannot be ignored, since in this case, no actions to inflict non-nuclear strikes on the territory of the Russian Federation, destroy ships under the flag of the Russian Federation or block the straits are guaranteed not to go unpunished.
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  1. +8
    8 February 2019 07: 12
    Exactly. I first read that UAVs and telecommunications satellites with a high data transfer rate are one complex and Russia's lag in the field of long-range UAVs is caused, first of all, by the absence of such satellites, and not because our design bureau UAVs cannot. So, the problem is much more significant than it seems at first glance and more expensive to solve ...
  2. 0
    8 February 2019 09: 21
    The range of the Kyrgyz Republic when striking in Japan

    Ah ah ah! Here the Japanese are now replicating. There is no Europe on the map, the USA, no, but Japan is ...
    1. +1
      8 February 2019 11: 34
      Quote: Chichikov
      Ah ah ah! Here the Japanese are now replicating. There is no Europe on the map, the USA, no, but Japan is ...

      good and there’s nothing to open mouth on the South Kuril Islands soldier
      well, but seriously - all these Japan-Australia-Colombia and so they know (at least understand) that in the case of a lot of things they will not succeed in escaping with a slight fright.
      and another howl with all sorts of concerns there - just another howl, no more hi
  3. -1
    8 February 2019 09: 57
    Another scenario is that the regime has changed in the former “friendly” state, and the loans issued earlier by the Russian Federation have decided not to return. By inflicting periodic strikes by the Kyrgyz Republic on the debtor’s government facilities, it is possible to put a new government before a choice - to pay off the loan, or to manage the country from the bunker. The cost of missiles included in the bill. Why? Israel is bombing neighbors, and nothing, we can also try to do so.

    it's hard. The author needs to change the smoke.
    and further. the author does not seem to understand that cruise missiles are not vundervaffe, they have plenty of disadvantages and limitations in use. This is just one type of weapon.
    And this also applies to RCC, even more so. In real history, the use of anti-ship missiles against an electronic warfare equipped with a combat-ready combat ship is practically useless ammunition consumption.
    A separate topic is the new wunderwaffe satellites.
    I will tell you a secret - they are for detection, but for target designation aviation is still used.
    1. +6
      8 February 2019 10: 18
      Quote: Avior
      Another scenario is that the regime has changed in the former “friendly” state, and the loans issued earlier by the Russian Federation have decided not to return. By inflicting periodic strikes by the Kyrgyz Republic on the debtor’s government facilities, it is possible to put a new government before a choice - to pay off the loan, or to manage the country from the bunker. The cost of missiles included in the bill. Why? Israel is bombing neighbors, and nothing, we can also try to do so.

      it's hard. The author needs to change the smoke.


      But in fact there is nothing to say? For Russia, this is more than a realistic scenario. As a taxpayer, it is unpleasant for me that the debts of the USSR / Russia are “forgiven” all the time.

      Now the regime will change in Venezuela and that's it, money will say "adyos amigo".

      Quote: Avior
      and further. the author does not seem to understand that cruise missiles are not vundervaffe, they have plenty of disadvantages and limitations in use. This is just one type of weapon.


      So what? I propose to abandon all other types of weapons and replace them with cruise missiles?

      In the US, some fools filled the CD all the carriers. And underwater, and surface.
      And we have few carriers for a large number of CDs. I see the easiest way to fix this.

      Quote: Avior
      And this also applies to PKR, even more so. In real history, the use of anti-ship missiles against an EW-equipped combat-ready combat ship is almost useless ammunition consumption.


      That's all again. RCC are not needed. The United States was doing Harpoons in vain, the USSR P-500 / P-700 / P-800 Russia was doing something foolishly, and also the French, Norwegians, and the PRC. Give up RCC, period. Only torpedoes. And free-fall bombs on Hephaestus.

      GOS are improving, processing algorithms too. GOS can be multispectral - RL / IR / visible range. And taking into account the fact that there have been no wars between the powers of the "first rank" (fortunately) for a long time, nothing can be unequivocally stated. I doubt that the captain of the destroyer "Arlie Burke" will want to check how his air defense or electronic warfare will beat off a volley of a dozen P-800 anti-ship missiles.

      Legend (Grau index - 17K114) - Soviet / Russian system of global satellite naval space reconnaissance and targeting to naval forces. The system allowed to fully monitor and predict the tactical situation in the world ocean and transmit information in real time to ships, submarines and ground points.


      Satellites are not the "wunderwaffe", the basic element that enables the military to conduct operations on a global scale. Without them, there is no normal communication and intelligence. Without them, any army is incomplete. Without high-quality satellite constellations, it is better not to rock the boat at all, but to sit quietly, hoping that they will not be touched.
      1. -1
        8 February 2019 10: 59
        For Russia, this is more than a real scenario.

        this is a completely unrealistic scenario. if Israel really, as you write, for example, did this (and he does nothing of the sort, not only in reality, but even in plans), then Israel would be so isolated that in a year everyone would run away again around the world. And in the Kremlin, fortunately, they understand why such a scenario is unrealistic.
        Now the regime will change in Venezuela and that's it, money will say "adyos amigo".

        they will say what a habit it is to maintain some kind of losers all the time.

        That's all again. RCC is not needed. The USA did nothing Harpoons, the USSR P-500 / P-700 / P-800 Russia something is foolish

        are needed. for example, if it turns out to strike at a non-finished ship or at a non-normal rab.
        but it is not vundervaffe and only it is impossible to put on them.
        The Chinese understand this, aircraft carriers are building.
        GOS can be multispectral - RL / IR / visible range.

        this is how new ones do.
        Only not in Russia. Russia will continue to do fast to the detriment of the quality of the GOS. It will be like the Doomsday War.
        the captain of the destroyer "Arlie Burke" wants to check how his air defense or electronic warfare will beat off a volley of a dozen P-800 anti-ship missiles.

        Arly Burke does not have and never had a captain. There was a commander.
        And he is not a partisan in the field, he acts as part of the fleet.
        The system made it possible to fully monitor and predict the tactical situation in the oceans and transmit real-time information to ships, submarines and ground posts.

        This is from the realm of fantasy. transmitted information only on the area over which it flew, a couple of times a day above a specific place, and transmitted to a ground point.
        for half a day AUG on 600 km could go away if necessary, what is there target designation.
        and still it is necessary to reach the start line, and additional exploration should be done before launch, so that all your П -... do not stick to the accidentally sailing tanker.
        1. +3
          8 February 2019 11: 25
          Quote: Avior
          This is a completely unrealistic scenario. if Israel is true, as you write, for example, you are doing this (and he doesn’t do anything like that, not so much in reality, but even in plans), then Israel would be in such isolation that within a year everyone would run away again around the world. And in the Kremlin, fortunately, they perfectly understand why such a scenario is unrealistic


          Yeah. Mossad destroys the enemies of Israel around the world. In Syria, fly over foreign territory without hiding it.
          It is not necessary to demand debt out loud. You can bomb under the pretext of combating an illegitimate regime - terrorists.

          Quote: Avior
          are needed. for example, if it turns out to strike at a non-finished ship or at a non-normal rab.
          but it is not vundervaffe and only it is impossible to put on them.


          Once again, where in the article call all throw on the rocket?
          And the KR / PKR is made not only by the Russian Federation. If the electronic warfare was so effective, then no one would make anti-ship missiles to destroy only unavailable ships. So here you make a "wunderwaffe" out of electronic warfare.

          Quote: Avior
          The Chinese understand this, aircraft carriers are building.


          The Chinese generally build everything, how far you can reach. And I did not say that aircraft carriers are not needed, and are not effective. But the fact that, taking into account how our frigates are being built, before the construction of the AUG we are like to China ... well, you understand ...

          Quote: Avior
          this is how new ones do.
          Only not in Russia. Russia will continue to do fast to the detriment of the quality of the GOS. It will be like the Doomsday War.


          Who knows what in KB develop? Maybe we don't know something. India gladly invested in Bramoss (P-800), China also makes analogs.

          Quote: Avior
          Arly Burke does not have and never had a captain. There was a commander.
          And he is not a partisan in the field, he acts as part of the fleet.



          As part of the fleet, he will receive not 10 and 200 RCC, for which the SSGNs are needed.

          Quote: Avior
          This is from the realm of fantasy. transmitted information only on the area over which it flew, a couple of times a day above a specific place, and transmitted to a ground point.
          for half a day AUG on 600 km could go away if necessary, what is there target designation.
          and still it is necessary to reach the start line, and additional exploration should be done before launch, so that all your П -... do not stick to the accidentally sailing tanker.


          It is not necessary to go to the start line if you follow the AUG at a distance of 500-600 km. Those. launch is possible almost instantly after the issuance of target designation. Flight speed П-800 = 2М. 600 km these anti-ship missiles will be overcome in 15 minutes. AUG will move no more than 15 km (this is on 30 nodes).
          1. +4
            9 February 2019 12: 21
            Quote: AVM
            It is not necessary to go to the start line if you follow the AUG at a distance of 500-600 km. Those. launch is possible almost instantly after the issuance of target designation.
            Andrew, first of all, Thank you for the article: at least someone raises a maritime theme. And this is good. good
            Second. One cannot so freely operate with the concepts of "launch line", "launch is possible almost instantly", etc. There is such a thing as "weapon tracking". This is when the anti-ship missile carrier is in the zone of possible salvo positions (in the firing sector and when the NK target is within range). But the point is that the AUG is a group and extremely difficult target with a strong missile defense / air defense system. Therefore, it was planned to destroy them during fleet operations with the use of MRA, PLA, NK with anti-ship missiles and anti-aircraft submarine divisions, and not single SSGNs. Anti-aircraft submarines were created at the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet. And a continuous crap for CD, ZKD and NSh was the organization of the WZMD when striking the AVU ... The first is the location of the units relative to the main target, which still needs to be "identified". The second is the calculation of the launch time for each unit, based on "Ch" - and this is the time of the anti-ship missile approach to the target board ...
            The third. Lots and lots of hassle ... There is no instant start-up ... it all depends on the time of data obsolescence, the source of information (accuracy of its location and accuracy of the control unit), knowledge of the EDC or at least the approximate speed and direction of movement of the AUG ... All this is calculated and only after that the shooting data are entered ... At least it was in our time.
            For the article - thanks. drinks
      2. 0
        8 February 2019 22: 41
        The USA used the same axes in Iraq in conjunction with aviation that they didn’t cut axes, they sought from the air. The satellite constellation will help significantly narrow the target search area, but it will still be a huge water area. The fact that satellites will provide stable communication and interaction between different types of troops and weapons is undeniable. Multispectral GOS with advanced target selection is also not with us yet. Maybe in the long run.
      3. 0
        20 February 2020 13: 12
        Dear author, thanks for the article! But still, you went too far with "bombing former allies for debts." I am sure many have read "bomb Ukraine" here. Russia, in principle, has never engaged in the destruction of civilian objects (unlike the United States). Your reasoning in the article is correct, but absolutely obvious to everyone interested in military topics. CD on Borei is good, but not the best option, the carrier is too huge, the future belongs to smaller submarines and UUVs. Microsatellites on LEO are also good, there are even our civil geodetic satellites with radars for mapping, they fly at an altitude of about 200 km, and weigh about 200 kg (I don’t remember exactly the data, you can search, Baumanka, it seems, did). But I'm not sure that they can be launched in large quantities directly. I agree that the ICRC is important, moreover, I think it is more important than the surface fleet and SSGN itself, and certainly more important than any Armata, Typhoons
    2. +3
      8 February 2019 11: 06
      Why then? "Legend" gave out the control center.
  4. -11
    8 February 2019 10: 33
    Satellites and UAVs of long-range radar reconnaissance are useless rubbish in a local or global nuclear conflict, since they will be guaranteed to be destroyed in the first minutes of hostilities.

    The only means of external target designation for the destruction of the AUG is the Container ZGRLS, which detects any surface target larger than the corvette at a distance of 6000 km. According to the plans of the RF Ministry of Defense, the number of such ZGRLS should be about 10 units, i.e. cover all sea approaches to the RF.

    At the same time, only anti-ship peacekeeping units with active RGSN and phased antenna arrays, 1-Mtn can be a means of defeating aircraft carriers as part of the AUG at the first stage of a nuclear conflict, during which the aircraft carrier will be in a circle with a diameter of 15-15 km relative to the originally defined position.

    There will be no second chance of hitting aircraft carriers with the help of the BRSD - through 5-10 minutes after the outbreak of hostilities, the HMWD will be put out of action by the enemy's MRBD blows, so for each AUG, medium-range missiles must be launched at 2-3.

    The only chance for aircraft carriers to survive at the first stage of the conflict will be their non-crossing of the 6000 km range, but this means the enemy's refusal to use carrier-based aircraft in the first strike. The second strike can be delivered only after their approach to a distance of 2000 km (combat radius of carrier-based aircraft + flight distance of LRASM missiles), i.e. approximately 100 hours after the start of the conflict. During this time, the AUG can be detected by air and electronic reconnaissance and destroyed by the Zircon, Caliber-A and Dagger missiles carried by Tu-22, Su-34, Su-35 and MiG-31.
    1. +1
      8 February 2019 10: 51
      Does Russia have a phased array antenna?
      1. -5
        8 February 2019 11: 06
        In Russia, the BRDS as such will appear only at the end of this year - Shoigu (C).

        AFAR for aircraft (Su-57) are already available.
    2. +4
      8 February 2019 11: 33
      Quote: Operator
      The only means of external target designation for the destruction of the AUG is the "Container" ZGRLS, which detects any surface target larger than the corvette at a distance of 6000 km

      You naively reason, however. The ZGRLS you praise work on the principle of wave reflection from the ionosphere. This gives rise to large dead zones, the inability to determine the type of ship or vessel, a huge dependence on meteorological conditions, etc. Will you shoot all discovered fishing schooners, merchant ships, tankers and dry cargo vessels? Such radar stations do not allow missiles to be aimed at a target at all. There has not been a single such successful test.
      1. -6
        8 February 2019 11: 39
        The dead zone of the ZGRLS "Container" is 1000 km from the location of the radiating antenna field, the remaining 5000 km are completely under radar control.

        In addition to azimuth and range, the ZGRLS determines the EPR of the target (i.e. classifies corvettes, frigates, cruisers and aircraft carriers), and also estimates the relative spatial position of the ships in the AUG order.

        If ZGRLS determined the azimuth and range to the target, then what prevents them from transmitting these parameters to the BRDS - Zen Buddhism, no? laughing
      2. +1
        9 February 2019 12: 45
        Quote: kjhg
        Such radar stations generally do not allow directing missiles at the target. There was no such successful test.

        You are not right. 2013, 2015 years in the Caspian Sea according to the data of the Main Directorate of the All-Union Radar Radio Control System, shots were fired which were considered successful True D to 400 km, but enough for the Caspian.
    3. +1
      8 February 2019 11: 41
      Quote: Operator
      Satellites and UAVs of long-range radar reconnaissance are useless rubbish in a local or global nuclear conflict, since they will be guaranteed to be destroyed in the first minutes of hostilities.


      Than nuclear weapons? Then it will definitely not be a local conflict.
      Destroyed everything in all orbits? And before the GSO reach?
      And yes:
      There should also be a reserve of satellites to ensure the possibility of rapid replenishment of the orbital group. They can be placed in advance in the mines of ballistic missiles or in the mines of the SSBNs in a state of high readiness for launch.


      And after all, we are not necessarily talking about global conflict. As of our fleet, Japan or Turkey, as it were, have not piled us.

      Quote: Operator
      The only means of external target designation for the destruction of the AUG is the Container ZGRLS, which detects any surface target larger than the corvette at a distance of 6000 km. According to the plans of the RF Ministry of Defense, the number of such ZGRLS should be about 10 units, i.e. cover all sea approaches to the RF.


      Destroying them is even easier than satellites. And 6000 km is not the whole ocean. But yes, this is an important addition.

      Quote: Operator
      At the same time, only anti-ship peacekeeping units with active RGSN and phased antenna arrays, 1-Mtn can be a means of defeating aircraft carriers as part of the AUG at the first stage of a nuclear conflict, during which the aircraft carrier will be in a circle with a diameter of 15-15 km relative to the originally defined position.
      There will be no second chance of hitting aircraft carriers with the help of the BRSD - through 5-10 minutes after the outbreak of hostilities, the HMWD will be put out of action by the enemy's MRBD blows, so for each AUG, medium-range missiles must be launched at 2-3.


      If they do, it will be even easier, the same Boreas, but with such MRBD + DD from satellites and the border in 6000 km is canceled. In the article:
      Termination of the Treaty on Intermediate-Range and Shorter-Range (DRDM) can lead to the emergence of other types of missiles. Despite the fact that the action of the INF squadron on the fleet did not extend, its cancellation may intensify the development of ballistic missiles with a range of several thousand kilometers, and their further “snagging” can lead to the appearance in the Russian Navy of analogs of the Chinese ballistic missile DF-21D designed to destroy surface ships.


      Quote: Operator
      There will be no second chance of hitting aircraft carriers with the help of the BRSD - through 5-10 minutes after the outbreak of hostilities, the HMWD will be put out of action by the enemy's MRBD blows, so for each AUG, medium-range missiles must be launched at 2-3.


      Or HRT.

      Quote: Operator
      The only chance for aircraft carriers to survive at the first stage of the conflict will be their non-crossing of the 6000 km range, but this means the enemy's refusal to use carrier-based aircraft in the first strike. The second strike can be delivered only after their approach to a distance of 2000 km (combat radius of carrier-based aircraft + flight distance of LRASM missiles), i.e. approximately 100 hours after the start of the conflict. During this time, the AUG can be detected by air and electronic reconnaissance and destroyed by the Zircon, Caliber-A and Dagger missiles carried by Tu-22, Su-34, Su-35 and MiG-31.


      Or earlier rockets from the SSGN. Can you imagine how much you need to concentrate the Tu-22, Su-34, Su-35 and MiG-31 to launch 100 missiles? Easy to count - 100 aircraft. And how many of them we have, and how many will survive after the start of the war, when the same Tomahawks fly by airfields?

      The SSGMs have a significantly higher combat stability during a sudden attack.
      1. -5
        8 February 2019 12: 04
        A local nuclear conflict by definition does not concern the territory of the nuclear-weapon States parties to the conflict. All the rest of the space (the territory of the states - limitrofov, the water area of ​​the seas, space) can be used indefinitely to conduct such a conflict.

        In case of a threat to our interests from non-nuclear states, in accordance with our military doctrine, we can launch a nuclear strike against them, so Japan and Turkey smoke bamboo.

        An air defense radar system at the beginning of a conflict can be destroyed only in one way - by striking a medium-range missile or an SLBM launched from a distance of 3000 km, with a flight time of at least 5 minutes. This is quite enough to transfer the coordinates of enemy AUG for our MRBD.

        Satellites are good, but they are put out of operation several seconds before the outbreak of hostilities by laser irradiation from the Boeing-747.

        We have too few submarines, they are too noisy and depend on the performance of satellite communications to receive the coordinates of enemy AUGs, so that they can seriously count on the submarines in the fight against AUG. Although as an option, the submarine will completely go down.

        I completely agree with the MIRV, but we still have to see what exactly Shoigu will roll out at the end of this year - an analogue of the one-piece Courier or an analogue of the Pioneer with three warheads.

        To disable an aircraft carrier, at least two ballistic missiles are sufficient (regardless of their carrier) - the special warhead of the first missile with the help of EMR disables AUG radars, the special warhead of the second missile is vaporized by the carrier.
        1. +2
          8 February 2019 12: 27
          Quote: Operator
          A local nuclear conflict by definition does not concern the territory of the nuclear-weapon States parties to the conflict. All the rest of the space (the territory of the states - limitrofov, the water area of ​​the seas, space) can be used indefinitely to conduct such a conflict.


          All massive satellites in space can be knocked down only by massive use of nuclear weapons in space, in which case the missile attack warning satellites will fail, this will be the reason for the start of a nuclear war.

          Quote: Operator
          In case of a threat to our interests from non-nuclear states, in accordance with our military doctrine, we can launch a nuclear strike against them, so Japan and Turkey smoke bamboo.


          Hardly. Here is a good article on this topic, everything is painted there:
          https://topwar.ru/153069-morskie-razbojniki-protiv-jadernogo-sderzhivanija.html

          Quote: Operator
          An air defense radar system at the beginning of a conflict can be destroyed only in one way - by striking a medium-range missile or an SLBM launched from a distance of 3000 km, with a flight time of at least 5 minutes. This is quite enough to transfer the coordinates of enemy AUG for our MRBD.


          Or unobtrusive KR.

          Quote: Operator
          Satellites are good, but they are put out of operation several seconds before the outbreak of hostilities by laser irradiation from the Boeing-747.


          This program is minimized, efficiency is not confirmed. And I do not think that the laser will reach satellites in geostationary orbit (40 000 km).

          Quote: Operator
          We have too few submarines, they are too noisy and depend on the performance of satellite communications to receive the coordinates of enemy AUGs, so that they can seriously count on the submarines in the fight against AUG. Although as an option, the submarine will completely go down.


          I would say that we still have "average" submarines, and how noisy they are, the data vary.
          1. -4
            8 February 2019 13: 52
            I cited the undisputed risks for the operation of radar reconnaissance satellites, ZGRLS and nuclear submarines - of course, additional risks can be cited, but this is optional.
    4. 0
      20 February 2020 13: 24
      Haha! You made a mistake in almost all theses. There can be no radar on the BSSR warhead, not even on the Iskander - the temperature of the radome heating does not allow it to be made of radio-transparent materials.

      And generally reread your message. At first you write, perhaps. UAVs will be destroyed in the first minutes of the war, therefore ZGRLS are needed, and then write that ZGRLS will be destroyed in 5-10 minutes. Well, what kind of childishness))

      Everything is fundamentally wrong, even the fact that the ACG will be the target in the war of the apocalypse - their role in YaSa is very limited. These are gunboats
  5. -3
    8 February 2019 11: 01
    Quote: AVM
    In the US, some fools filled the CD all the carriers. Both underwater and above-water. And we have few carriers for a large number of CDs. I see the easiest way to fix this.

    Do not be leveled at the United States in this matter. States tossed the Papuans with tomahawks, but they, as we know, do not have EW and ABM. That is why the rockets are subsonic and without anti-air defense systems and onboard EW, and the guidance of the TOP versions is based on the GPS signal. Do not make me laugh!
    I believe that before the 90xx of the 20 of the 20th century, the P-700 were effective against AUG, after the development of AEGIS and the appearance of new interceptor missiles from the US, things are a little different. We need a fundamentally different level of AUG weapons. Hypersound to help us, but not fundamentally old PCRs.
    1. +2
      8 February 2019 11: 08
      Quote: Zoer
      Quote: AVM
      In the US, some fools filled the CD all the carriers. Both underwater and above-water. And we have few carriers for a large number of CDs. I see the easiest way to fix this.

      Do not be leveled at the United States in this matter. States tossed the Papuans with tomahawks, but they, as we know, do not have EW and ABM. That is why the rockets are subsonic and without anti-air defense systems and onboard EW, and the guidance of the TOP versions is based on the GPS signal. Do not make me laugh!
      I believe that before the 90xx of the 20 of the 20th century, the P-700 were effective against AUG, after the development of AEGIS and the appearance of new interceptor missiles from the US, things are a little different. We need a fundamentally different level of AUG weapons. Hypersound to help us, but not fundamentally old PCRs.


      Hypersound seems to be planned in "Zircon". But you shouldn't make "Wunderwaffe" out of AEGIS either. Yes, the capabilities of air defense have increased, and this is indicated in the article, but they are also not unlimited. Not the fact that the AUG will repel a volley of 200 P-800 anti-ship missiles.
      1. +1
        8 February 2019 11: 15
        It does not reflect exactly. 200, even 150 rockets will overpower warrants. But the problem is not only in target designation, but also in the distribution of targets. I have not heard of this feature in the P-800
        1. +1
          8 February 2019 11: 30
          Quote: Beregovyhok_1
          It does not reflect exactly. 200, even 150 rockets will overpower warrants. But the problem is not only in target designation, but also in the distribution of targets. I have not heard of this feature in the P-800


          Yes, of course, it is desirable to distribute orders on all ships, but the core of the AUG aircraft carrier is the largest and radio-contrast target. If all the anti-ship missiles who have penetrated the AUG air defense system will fly into the aircraft carrier too well. There will be no AUG. Connectivity will be greatly reduced, and in terms of air defense and PLO plan, you can finish off.
          1. +4
            8 February 2019 14: 38
            Quote: AVM
            Yes, of course it is advisable to distribute warrants to all ships, but the AUG carrier’s core is the largest and most radiopaque target

            If intelligence reported exactly, and in the center of the AUG order there really is AB.
            And that was a precedent when they removed the radar picture of the warrant, saw a major target in it, reported the discovery of AB, accompanied its rank by rank. And then they conducted a visual additional reconnaissance of the warrant - and were surprised to see the KKS carcass on the spot.
        2. 0
          8 February 2019 16: 05
          "Will not reflect accurately. 200, even 150 missiles will overwhelm the air defense orders."
          Everything is correct. Moreover, as far as I remember, according to some calculations, a salvo of 3 "batons" was enough to disable / destroy the AUG.
          1. +2
            8 February 2019 20: 14
            Quote: Alexey Vasilievich I
            Moreover, as far as I remember, according to some calculations, a salvo of 3 "batons" was enough to disable / destroy the AUG.

            EMNIP, on the Northern Fleet in the 80s for the guaranteed disabling of the AUG it was considered necessary to use a pair of "stingrays" / "seagulls", a pair of "loaves" and one or two mrap.
          2. +2
            9 February 2019 13: 23
            Quote: Alexey Vasilievich I
            according to some calculations, a salvo of 3 "batons" was enough to disable / destroy the AUG.

            It all depends on the "organization of the salvo", its scope - the time interval for the launch of the 1st and the last anti-ship missile salvo. "If in a bunch, but soon, so why not pile on Nimitsu" - lovely! fellow
            1. +1
              9 February 2019 16: 16
              "It all depends on the" organization of the salvo ", its scope - the time interval for the launch of the 1st and last anti-ship missiles of the salvo."
              Totally agree with you. Coordination is very important.
      2. +2
        9 February 2019 13: 18
        Quote: AVM
        Not the fact that AUG will reflect the salvo 200 PKR type П-800.

        But it depends on the so-called. "the scope of a volley".
        With a sufficiently large RH, single CDs, as a rule, are suitable for the goal, rarely for 2 CR at the same time. Therefore - not the fact that 200 RCC, going one by one, will decide the fate of AUG. It’s another matter if the intervals are shorter than the response time of the AIA, and even better at the same time from different heights and directions, and under the cover of the sighting interferences of EW complexes! bully
  6. -1
    8 February 2019 12: 00
    The author has painted everything beautifully and even seems to have made the right conclusions! (Summarizing, we can say that the presence in the Russian Navy of four or eight SSGNs with effective missile weapons, with a developed target designation system, will create a threat to any surface fleet of a potential enemy, any military base around the world. And this threat cannot be ignored, since in this case no actions to strike non-nuclear strikes on the territory of the Russian Federation, destroy ships under the flag of the Russian Federation or block the straits are guaranteed not to go unpunishedand.) However, everything flows and changes, and the states at the exit already have such dronchiki! (https://topwar.ru/153706-amerikanskij-morskoj-ohotnik-sovershil-avtonomnyj-pohod.html#comment-id-9065669) so that the boundary line for the submarine to strike will be pushed back with such drones 1000 and more kilometers! That will not allow the boat to realize its potential and even more so to get target designation! Given that this type of drones will have a displacement from 1000 tone and autonomy from 120 day. So for our boats, everything looks very sad!
    1. +1
      8 February 2019 12: 21
      Quote: dgonni
      The author has painted everything beautifully and even seems to have made the right conclusions! (Summarizing, we can say that the presence in the Russian Navy of four or eight SSGNs with effective missile weapons, with a developed target designation system, will create a threat to any surface fleet of a potential enemy, any military base around the world. And this threat cannot be ignored, since in this case no actions to strike non-nuclear strikes on the territory of the Russian Federation, destroy ships under the flag of the Russian Federation or block the straits are guaranteed not to go unpunishedand.) However, everything flows and changes, and the states at the exit already have such dronchiki! (https://topwar.ru/153706-amerikanskij-morskoj-ohotnik-sovershil-avtonomnyj-pohod.html#comment-id-9065669) so that the boundary line for the submarine to strike will be pushed back with such drones 1000 and more kilometers! That will not allow the boat to realize its potential and even more so to get target designation! Given that this type of drones will have a displacement from 1000 tone and autonomy from 120 day. So for our boats, everything looks very sad!


      How many of them are needed to control the water area over 1 000 000 square. km? They have an excitement limit of 7 points, in many seas they almost never can work. Well, their effectiveness has not yet been confirmed.

      I was also interested in such unmanned vessels as a means of tracking the CUG / AUG. In peacetime, he swims and swims, transmits data in real time. And if you drowned, the flow of data was interrupted, then most likely the war. At least there will be the last coordinates.
      1. +1
        8 February 2019 13: 02
        This is a development model with a displacement of only 145 tons! The working drone will have 1000+ tons and it will have no problems with seaworthiness!
  7. +3
    8 February 2019 12: 59
    I read articles about the fleet on the site and do not quite understand why many people talk about the lag of the Russian fleet about the western one. Which western? Is all NATO being considered? But why then only Russia is considered - doesn’t NATO have other rivals, then Russia and China should be considered at least. If the countries - so let's look at the fleet of the same England - Russia's advantage is obvious. If you compare with the United States, then yes, the United States is ahead, but the tasks that face the US fleet and the Russian fleet are completely different. The task of the U.S. Navy is to control maritime trade routes and project power. The task of the Russian fleet is to control maritime borders and special economic zones. For this, the Russian fleet is more than enough. Indeed, in the event of war, the Russian fleet will not have to search for their fleet in the oceans - it will approach the sea borders of Russia and here Russia has enough to detect, target and destroy opportunities, coastal missile systems and aviation are added. And do not forget that the maintenance of large ships is a lot of money, why waste it?
    1. +2
      8 February 2019 13: 32
      Quote: HBG_Belarus
      I read articles about the fleet on the site and do not quite understand why many are talking about the lag of the Russian fleet about the western one. What western? Is all NATO considered? But why, then, only Russia is considered - unless NATO has no other rivals, then Russia and China should be considered at a minimum. If by country - so let's consider with the fleet of the same England - Russia's advantage is obvious.


      Because Russia can conflict both with the entire NATO, and with the NATO members separately. Will China go for us? Another question. No matter how he joined the opposing side, anything can happen. But there is no point in considering the option of the United States against England.

      Quote: HBG_Belarus
      If we compare it with the United States, then yes, the United States is ahead, but the tasks that confront the US Navy and the Russian Navy are completely different. The task of the US Navy is to control the sea trade routes and implement the projection of force. The task of the Russian fleet is the control of sea borders and special economic zones. For this, the Russian fleet is more than enough.


      Then why build ocean ships at all? Maximum to make rocket boats. But then with the desire to have the status of a great power, you can say goodbye.

      Quote: HBG_Belarus
      After all, in the event of war, the Russian fleet will not have to search for its fleet in the oceans - it will approach the sea borders of Russia, and here Russia has enough opportunities to detect, target designate and destroy capabilities, adding coastal missile systems and aviation. And do not forget that the maintenance of large ships is a lot of money, why waste it?


      In the zone of the coastal complexes it makes no sense to enter it, if only when they know exactly what they suppressed.
      We don’t have so much aviation, for sure there will be a use for it in the event of a conflict.
    2. +2
      8 February 2019 16: 22
      "The task of the Russian fleet is to control sea borders and special economic zones."
      Not at all like that. These are the tasks of the FSB border service.
      The main task of the fleet is to ensure the protection and combat stability of our strategists at sea.
  8. +5
    8 February 2019 13: 21
    The article is interesting. Respect to the author. In principle, a submarine needs as much as we can produce and maintain. Ideally, 2 submarines per 1 AUG. Probably they will still be cheaper than AUG. But for the money probably 4 ceiling. It is also necessary to do an underwater hunter. Without them, too, nowhere. The only and in my opinion the biggest problem here is the issuance of target designation for launch. Here in the comments the dispute was that RCC was a waste of money. They say aviation is capable of solving the problem, but RCC is not. And the EW is to blame for everything. But after all, aviation will not shoot ships from machine guns? Airplanes will launch the same anti-ship missiles, that's the whole difference. And if you follow the logic of things, then aviation is also an empty place in a naval battle. Now about the nuclear strike. And who said that they would do it? Yes, and why? if you want to capture a country for its resources, the use of nuclear weapons is contraindicated. Radioactive contamination will turn your victory into PIERA. So it’s not worth it to bother. That's basically all I wanted to say.
  9. +3
    8 February 2019 16: 41
    A good article, if not to find fault with trifles. In general, the idea is correct to make a modification of Borey under RCC / KR. Only with knocking out debts too much, but laughed. laughing good
  10. +1
    8 February 2019 18: 34
    In principle, one of the rare articles on the topic with which I agree. The volley density of cruise missiles of our ocean fleets must be increased. And, in principle, the idea of ​​Borey converted to cr completely healthy. Again, you can mix ammunition. QUESTIONS OF DEFINITION ARE ALSO SOLVED.
    First of all, satellites. Including civilians. We are planning to build a "Sphere" of several hundred satellites. Such a system will quite help to detect a large ship formation or convoy and determine its position. And when approaching the target, the missile will already produce direct guidance itself. Or you can provide a special rocket in the swarm, which will direct the rest. Well, five are drones. Besides Altair, it could be an OWL. They may well patrol the oceans in shifts.
    In general, I do not see fiction. An idea has a right to exist.
  11. -4
    8 February 2019 19: 25
    The military are always preparing for the last war - who needs to fight the ship groupings in the event of a global war, when the continents will be wiped off the face of the earth within an hour? - to imagine a nuclear-free war when the submarines will sink nuclear warheads with nuclear warheads - it is also impossible. And how the submarines will use the CD against the AV-this, probably, only the "great admirals" can come up with how the submarines will receive data about the area where the AUG is located and the orders to use the CD? ships? -durdom.
    1. +1
      10 February 2019 12: 37
      Quote: Bone1
      The military is always preparing for the past war - who needs to fight ship groups in the event of a global war, when the continents will be obliterated within an hour?


      continents within an hour will be wiped out - it is necessary to say this.

      Quote: Bone1
      It is also impossible to imagine a nuclear-free war when the submarine will be nuclear weapons to sink ships carrying nuclear ammunition.


      Why the submarine will shoot it with nuclear charges, and why sink ships carrying nuclear ammunition, it is probably only you understand.

      Quote: Bone1
      And how the submarines will use the CD against the AV-this, probably, only the "great admirals" can come up with how the submarines will receive data about the area where the AUG is located and the orders to use the CD? ships? -durdom.


      And how should they even apply them? Why built 949, 885?
  12. +1
    8 February 2019 21: 40
    Greetings!
    I think that the Russian Navy needs three types of submarines:
    1. strategic
    2. diesel electric for the near field,
    3 SSGN / multi-purpose / special.
    Since I am a fan of unification (reasonable), I suggest that submarines from each point be done on the basis of one project. This will lead to savings in production and operation.
    With regards to the anti-ship missile / KR weapons, I think it is necessary in the ammunition of one SSGN to have this weapon in a ratio of 50/50, since in a modern war, goals can change very quickly and the destruction of a pair of dry cargo ships with some valuable / important "molybdenum" or power plant will cause tremendous damage to the enemy. For this, SSGNs and torpedoes and anti-ship missiles and RK are needed.
  13. -3
    8 February 2019 21: 58
    "Violation of enemy sea and ocean communications. Destruction of convoys en route from the US to Europe. Attacking convoys with torpedoes will always carry the risk of losing submarines from enemy anti-aircraft missile forces. times of the 2nd world war!
  14. -1
    8 February 2019 22: 11
    very important topic! To develop nuclear submarines, unmanned aerial vehicles, space weapons instead of reticulent destroyers and battleships obsolete more than 100 years ago
  15. -1
    9 February 2019 01: 25
    Listen and you can not push aerobalistic missiles in these mines? We will have Iskander on the ground, a Dagger in the air, and modernized 949s at sea will carry anti-ship anti-ballistic missiles?
    1. 0
      10 February 2019 12: 34
      Quote: CaptainObvious
      Listen and you can not push aerobalistic missiles in these mines? We will have Iskander on the ground, a Dagger in the air, and modernized 949s at sea will carry anti-ship anti-ballistic missiles?


      If on the basis of "Iskander", taking into account the withdrawal from the INF Treaty, they make an extended-range missile, which may be adapted for the fleet.
  16. +1
    9 February 2019 19: 35
    Quote: AVM
    1. Destruction of warships and enemy ships operating as part of formations and groups, as well as singly. The first and obvious purpose is the fight against AUG. A volley in the 200-240 RCC with two SSGNs will "break through" any air defense. To ensure a similar launch density without a SSGN, all seven “Ash trees” from two fleets will be required. The surface fleet, without air cover, is unlikely to be allowed on the range of RCC launch to AUG. If the Zirkon PKR turns out to be as good as they are told about (8 Makhov on the entire flight path), then it is possible that a single SSGN will be enough to destroy the AUG.


    Rather, the second is more realistic. The variant with the destruction of enemy ships as part of formations or groups - a game of "Russian roulette". Do not forget that AUG has a radius of the order of the order of hundreds or two kilometers. Plus AWACS aircraft with a detection radius of 4-6 hundreds of kilometers, operating at a distance of 4 hundred kilometers from the AUG. Plus a couple of PLA's on guard. I'm not even talking about the rather powerful anti-submarine warrant support, both combat and informational. To reach the range of a salvo, the boat must also receive target designation from an external source. Do they exist, these external sources of target designation?
    A volley of 200-240 missiles is possible and will "break" air defense orders. It all depends on a number of factors. For example, which missiles will be used and from what distance
    Concerning "Zircon". It is unlikely that its range will be 1000 km, as in the picture. Rather, a more realistic figure of 400 km. How many missiles can a SSGN launch before they sink ???

    Quote: AVM
    2. The fight against KUG. Fleets of other countries, which have weaker capabilities for aviation support of the fleet compared to the United States, are much more vulnerable to a massive attack of anti-ship missiles, since will not be able to provide over-the-horizon guidance of missiles to the RCC. In other words, fleets of countries, such as Japan, Turkey, and Norway, can be shot by anti-ship missiles from great distances practically with impunity (if there is a target designation, which we will return to next) ..

    I can agree when it comes to the Turkish or Norwegian navy. But the Japanese fleet compares favorably in this respect from Turkey and Norway. First, they have naval air support, albeit not as powerful as that of the United States. Then, what do you mean by the term "from a great distance." How many kilometers is it? Moreover, do not forget that the range of anti-ship missiles is close. For "Onyx" it is within 1 km when flying according to the scheme hi-hi-hi, and in 120 km according to the scheme lo-lo-lo... In all other variants, this range fluctuates between 120 and 400 km. The anti-ship missiles of the "Caliber" complex have a slightly greater range, 550-600 kilometers, no more. It is not known what the Zircon will have, but we will not consider it too big ...

    Quote: AVM
    3. Violation of sea and ocean communications of the enemy. Destruction of convoys going from the USA to Europe. The attack of convoys by torpedoes will always be fraught with the risk of the loss of submarines from the enemy ASW forces. At the same time, the air defense of the convoys cannot be compared with the air defense of the CUG / AUG, therefore, in the presence of target designation, the SSGN will shoot ships from the convoys as ducks in the dash.

    That's it AT THE APPEARANCE... It is very difficult to say what the air defense of the convoys will be like. Weaker, of course, than that of the KUG / AUG, but as "ducks" it will not work to shoot them. They will not be left completely defenseless, and given the superiority in submarines in the United States - the chances for several boats to disrupt ocean communications is more of a fantasy. Even if the entire convoy is destroyed, a "hunt" will begin for these boats, which will not stop until the boats are eliminated ...

    Quote: AVM
    4. Destruction of important military and economic objects of the enemy on the coast and in the depths of its territory. Massive strikes of the Kyrgyz Republic on objects in the territory of the enemy or its military bases in other countries. A volley in 200-240 KR can cause significant damage to the economy of a developed state. Administrative institutions, power stations, bridges, large factories, and so on can be destroyed.
    If the CD can be equipped with electromagnetic warheads (and they are real and effective), then striking them at major cities and industrial facilities of the enemy can cause a collapse of the enemy’s economy.
    For the military, this means diverting additional forces to protect the bases, a constant stress effect on the personnel.


    The impression from your "forecasts" is that the USA does not have an overwhelming superiority in the navy, incl. and the submarine fleet, and we have. A massive blow to the coast can be inflicted. If these are countries such as NATO countries (and even then not all). How do you imagine striking along the coast and deep into the territory of the United States, if there is a 5 fleet on the same East coast of EMNIP, the main task of which will be precisely to combat such threats ????
    200-240 cruise missiles will be able to inflict damage only in one case - when equipped with special warheads. In all other cases, 400 kg of explosives are unlikely to cause serious damage to the economies of developed countries. Especially if it is "Caliber"

    Quote: AVM
    The reach zone of the Kyrgyz Republic when attacking Japan.

    With such a strike, there is a very high probability that these cruise missiles will not hit the target. From the word at all. Do not forget that the long-range rocket type 3М14 navigation system is based on and on the control of electronic maps of control points. Which EMNIP in the number of 15 pieces. If the first control point is not passed and the course is not adjusted, the accumulation of an error at the INS will begin and where it will fall. UNKNOWN

    Quote: AVM
    Another scenario is that the regime changed in the former “friendly” state, and decided not to repay the loans previously issued by the Russian Federation. By inflicting periodic attacks on the government facilities of the debtor by the Kyrgyz Republic, the new government can be faced with the choice of paying off a loan, or managing the country from a bunker. The cost of fired missiles should be included in the bill. And what? Israel is bombing its neighbors, and nothing, we, too, may well try to do so ..


    I agree with comrade Avior (Sergei) and not with you, dear Andrey. For Russia, this is more than NOT a REAL scenario. The fact that we "forgive" debts to everyone except our own citizens is a question for the country's leadership. But your scenario is ABSOLUTELY unrealistic. Even if we do not take into account the technical impossibility of carrying out such an operation (a very small number of "Calibers" and "Onyxes" and a meager number of their carriers), then such a development will lead to a completely different development of events. Let's say the regime will change in Venezuela and that's it, money will say "adyos amigo". Suppose that our fleet manages to allocate several boats for striking and several ships for transporting ammunition. So, what is next? Ammunition must be reloaded at sea. and this means that both transport and boats will be vulnerable at the time of reloading of ammunition to the same SU-30 of the Venezuelan Air Force. In addition, striking Venezuela's infrastructure will lead to the "new" government of Venezuela turning to the United States for help in defending its country's sovereignty from unprovoked Russian aggression.
    In fact, Israel is bombing a neighbor while at war with it, and not because the neighbor did not repay their loan
    egov, and with cruise missiles.
    1. 0
      10 February 2019 11: 57
      Quote: Old26
      Rather, the second is more realistic. The variant with the destruction of enemy ships as part of formations or groups - a game of "Russian roulette". Do not forget that AUG has a radius of the order of the order of hundreds or two kilometers. Plus AWACS aircraft with a detection radius of 4-6 hundreds of kilometers, operating at a distance of 4 hundred kilometers from the AUG. Plus a couple of PLA's on guard. I'm not even talking about the rather powerful anti-submarine warrant support, both combat and informational. To reach the range of a salvo, the boat must also receive target designation from an external source. Do they exist, these external sources of target designation?
      A volley of 200-240 missiles is possible and will "break" air defense orders. It all depends on a number of factors. For example, which missiles will be used and from what distance
      Concerning "Zircon". It is unlikely that its range will be 1000 km, as in the picture. Rather, a more realistic figure of 400 km. How many missiles can a SSGN launch before they sink ???


      Well, about target designation is written. Must be satellites and preferably UAV. If this is not / will not be, then there is no point in making the ocean fleet at all.

      The article lists the areas that need to be controlled by AUG - this is a huge territory. 400 km is outside the PLO AUG zone - only Orions / Poseidons, well, and possibly PLA (but there are only two). Even when the AWACS detects the launch of rockets, and, accordingly, the coordinates of the SSGN, it will take time to reach it. And AUG will be engaged in missile defense in the first place. The first threat will be those of Orion / Poseidon, if they are close.
      Earlier, I wrote about the need to develop air defense for submarines, and I have no doubt that it will appear as a bunch of conformal radar / thermal imager on the periscope + anti-aircraft missiles with ARLGSN and thermal guidance, which will work on Orion / Poseidon / DRLO and repeatedly increase the chances both to increase the survivability of the submarine, and to increase the likelihood of defeat AUG due to the impossibility of over-the-horizon firing at the anti-ship missiles (DRLO shot down). The article did not return to the subject of air defense, because for most, this idea is too radical. Here the US or the PRC will do - then URA patriots will frantically search for evidence that we were the first, such as - http://www.freepatent.ru/patents/2382313

      Quote: Old26
      I can agree when it comes to the Turkish or Norwegian navy. But the Japanese fleet compares favorably in this respect from Turkey and Norway. First, they have naval air support, albeit not as powerful as that of the United States. Then, what do you mean by the term "from a great distance." How many kilometers is it? Moreover, do not forget that the range of anti-ship missiles is close. For "Onyx" it is within 1 km when flying according to the scheme hi-hi-hi, and in 120 km according to the scheme lo-lo-lo... In all other variants, this range fluctuates between 120 and 400 km. The anti-ship missiles of the "Caliber" complex have a slightly greater range, 550-600 kilometers, no more. It is not known what the Zircon will have, but we will not consider it too big ...


      It is "though not as powerful as the United States." In my opinion, they don’t have ARLO on deck.
      "With a large removal" just think - 400-600 km.

      Quote: Old26
      That's it AT THE APPEARANCE... It is very difficult to say what the air defense of the convoys will be like. Weaker, of course, than that of the KUG / AUG, but as "ducks" it will not work to shoot them. They will not be left completely defenseless, and given the superiority in submarines in the United States - the chances for several boats to disrupt ocean communications is more of a fantasy. Even if the entire convoy is destroyed, a "hunt" will begin for these boats, which will not stop until the boats are eliminated ...


      The points are not ducks, but if you have target designation with the 400 km convoy skiff. And find or not - another question. If several PLARK + several hunters act, so far one will be caught, the other will be shot at by another convoy. This is not a diesel-electric submarine in WWII, and it can give change.

      Quote: Old26
      The impression from your "forecasts" is that the USA does not have an overwhelming superiority in the navy, incl. and the submarine fleet, and we have. A massive blow to the coast can be inflicted. If these are countries such as NATO countries (and even then not all). How do you imagine striking along the coast and deep into the territory of the United States, if there is a 5 fleet on the same East coast of EMNIP, the main task of which will be precisely to combat such threats ????
      200-240 cruise missiles will be able to inflict damage only in one case - when equipped with special warheads. In all other cases, 400 kg of explosives are unlikely to cause serious damage to the economies of developed countries. Especially if it is "Caliber"


      Of course, for the USA, it's like shooting salt at an elephant. But for compact, highly technology-dependent countries, 200-400 rockets is a serious argument - power plants, bridges, large enterprises. Same Japan, Qatar, but who knows? And I'm interested in EMR ammunition. If they are effective, cities without light will not add joy to the enemy.

      Quote: Old26
      With such a strike, there is a very high probability that these cruise missiles will not hit the target. From the word at all. Do not forget that the long-range rocket type 3М14 navigation system is based on and on the control of electronic maps of control points. Which EMNIP in the number of 15 pieces. If the first control point is not passed and the course is not adjusted, the accumulation of an error at the INS will begin and where it will fall. UNKNOWN


      It is clear that the analogue of TERKOM will be hard, but it is difficult to drown out Glonass in the sea, and on land, orientation will be added to the heights. I am more confused by the lack of optical guidance in the final section. May greatly improve accuracy.

      Quote: Old26
      I agree with comrade Avior (Sergei) and not with you, dear Andrey. For Russia, this is more than NOT a REAL scenario. The fact that we "forgive" debts to everyone except our own citizens is a question for the country's leadership. But your scenario is ABSOLUTELY unrealistic. Even if we do not take into account the technical impossibility of carrying out such an operation (a very small number of "Calibers" and "Onyxes" and a meager number of their carriers), then such a development will lead to a completely different development of events. Let's say the regime will change in Venezuela and that's it, money will say "adyos amigo". Suppose that our fleet manages to allocate several boats for striking and several ships for transporting ammunition. So, what is next? Ammunition must be reloaded at sea. and this means that both transport and boats will be vulnerable at the time of reloading of ammunition to the same SU-30 of the Venezuelan Air Force. In addition, striking Venezuela's infrastructure will lead to the "new" government of Venezuela turning to the United States for help in defending its country's sovereignty from unprovoked Russian aggression.
      In fact, Israel is bombing a neighbor, being in a state of war with him, and not because the neighbor did not return credits to them, and with cruise missiles.


      That's it, carriers are few. And one SSGN with 100 KR can release 5 KR per week, exerting strong psychological pressure. Two months of duty - then another SSGN came.

      And they can appeal to anyone - “The great powers do not sacrifice themselves for the sake of the allies”, in Syria we are hollowing, the United States is hollowing, but we don’t touch each other, for the consequences. And in the case of the same Venezuela, even the territory is not required to enter. Buzz and plyatyat. And yes, it is not necessary to talk aloud about loans. They took one Maduro, settled in a country house in the suburbs and we can talk about the illegitimate government that came to power with the support of the CIA (which is likely to be true).

      Israel, of course, is primarily due to self-defense, it’s not necessary to consider them goodies, they don’t really care about the opinion of the world community.
  17. +1
    9 February 2019 19: 38
    Quote: AVM
    5. Implementation of mine productions. Modern naval mines, designed for the use of 533 mm torpedo tubes, can very well be adapted for placement in the UVP two pieces in one launcher. Thus, the mine ammunition of one SSGN can be 200-240 minutes. Close the straits, block ships in the bays, mine ambushes on the way of convoys ..

    Your campaign SSGN becomes, as in the Russian proverb "and the Shvets, and the reaper, and on the pipe" If you adapt the launchers for placing mines there, you can forget about placing cruise missiles there. And again you have it sacred number 200-240. Even if you put TWO MINES in each launcher, as you write, then 2 mines multiplied by 16 launchers give only THIRTY TWO MINES IN THE AMOUNT, not your 200-240. What straits, bays, mine ambushes on the way of convoys can be put by one or two boats. No, you can block the fleet of Ukraine or Romania with Bulgaria. But only.

    Quote: AVM
    6. The landing of reconnaissance and sabotage groups on the coast of the enemy. This problem is being solved by modernized Ohio-class SSBNs. With the appropriate equipment, it can also be solved by SSBNs based on project 955A / B.

    Yes, Ohio has 2 to 4 mines for these purposes. If you are going to do this on the "Borea", then the number of mines will be reduced to 12 and all your "constructions" will turn out to be unrealized and unrealistic

    Quote: AVM
    7. And finally, in the event of further aggravation of relations with the United States, and the breach of agreements on the limitation of nuclear weapons, the SSGNL can be armed with long-range defense and nuclear weapons. Accordingly, Russia's strategic arsenal can quickly be increased by 400-800 (480-960) warheads.

    What, if not a secret long-range missiles, you can equip the SSGN?

    Quote: AVM
    Indirectly, the task "Ensuring the deployment and combat stability of strategic missile submarines" will also be solved. Almost identical appearance and acoustic signatures of the SSBN and SSBNs of the Borey type can mislead the enemy forces by redirecting them to track the SSBNs instead of SSBNs.

    Don't consider your opponent stupid. And it is unlikely that such a ruse is misled by the enemy. Moreover, usually SSBNs and SSGNs are based in different places. And it is better to "overlook" than "overlook". Even if it were possible to build another 4-8 SSGNs on the basis of the Borey project, we will do it no earlier than 15-20 years later, since Borey are built exclusively at one enterprise and the stocks there are not dimensionless. So it will be easier for them to track both strategists and cruise missiles.

    Quote: AVM
    Returning to the vital issue of targeting.
    First of all, these are definitely satellites. The development of reconnaissance satellite constellation is important in the interests of all types of armed forces ..

    There is no decrease, no increase ...

    Quote: AVM
    Protection of satellite constellation from destruction can be solved in several ways.
    1. Equipping satellites with defensive systems - traps, jamming devices, advanced means of evasion / orbit correction. Perhaps this has already been implemented.

    What will the "Trap" give if the Americans implement, for example, the version of the Soviet "kamikaze satellite". Who will blow itself up at a distance of 1 km and stuff the enemy's reconnaissance satellite with several thousand balls?
    Evasion means? Well, of course, there are engines, as well as a certain amount of fuel, but only the change in orbit is a "long-lasting" process. Especially if there is a change in orbit inclination

    Quote: AVM
    2. Increasing the orbit of satellites in order to minimize the probability of their being hit by “cheap” means of missile defense.

    Yes, easily. Yes, even on a geostationary or on a VEO type "Lightning". Just what will "see" such a satellite from such an orbit ??? From a height of 3 hundred kilometers, satellites such as KN-11 and KN-12 have a resolution of 15 centimeters. And from a height of 5 thousand kilometers ???

    Quote: AVM
    3. Development and deployment of low-orbit constellations from compact, cheap, but numerous satellites, following the example of satellite Internet projects. Withdraw their bundles of 5-10-20 devices. Each individual satellite will be inferior to its "large" counterparts, but in the group they will solve problems no less efficiently. The goal is to make the destruction of the satellite more expensive than the conclusion of a new one. It will also allow the satellite constellation to be more resilient to the failure of one or more satellites.

    Well, there are. Kubsat (cubsat) are called. Dimensions can be a dozen centimeters. That's just permission they have such that they are unlikely to see anything smaller in size than an ocean liner ...
    1. 0
      9 February 2019 21: 28
      Quote: Old26
      Your campaign SSGN becomes, as in the Russian proverb "and the Shvets, and the reaper, and on the pipe" If you adapt the launchers for placing mines there, you can forget about placing cruise missiles there. And again you have it sacred number 200-240. Even if you put TWO MINES in each launcher, as you write, then 2 mines multiplied by 16 launchers give only THIRTY TWO MINES IN THE AMOUNT, not your 200-240. What straits, bays, mine ambushes on the way of convoys can be put by one or two boats. No, you can block the fleet of Ukraine or Romania with Bulgaria. But only.


      Let me tell you a secret. A modern submarine, for example Project 885, is "both a Shvets, and a reaper, and a gamer on a pipe." And the CD launches, and carries out torpedoes and mine laying.

      The SSGN will not have 16 mines, but 96 or more, depending on how many launchers for the CD can be placed in the weapons bay. The mines have the same diameter of 533 mm as the KR "Caliber". both of them can be launched from torpedo tubes, but the length of the mines is 2 times less. So it turns out 200-2540 minutes.

      Quote: Old26
      Yes, Ohio has 2 to 4 mines for these purposes. If you are going to do this on the "Borea", then the number of mines will be reduced to 12 and all your "constructions" will turn out to be unrealized and unrealistic


      The number of CDs will be reduced by approximately 12-24 pcs. And that's all.

      Quote: Old26
      What, if not a secret long-range missiles, you can equip the SSGN?


      If on the basis of S-10 "Granat" they made a non-nuclear "Caliber", then the reverse process can be relatively easily implemented.

      Quote: Old26
      Don't consider your opponent stupid. And it is unlikely that such a ruse is misled by the enemy. Moreover, usually SSBNs and SSGNs are based in different places. And it is better to "overlook" than "overlook". Even if it were possible to build another 4-8 SSGNs on the basis of the Borey project, we will do it no earlier than 15-20 years later, since Borey are built exclusively at one enterprise and the stocks there are not dimensionless. So it will be easier for them to track both strategists and cruise missiles.


      Borei will finish building in 2021-2023. The slipways will be released.
      And about the confusion - when leaving the point of basing, yes, and in the straits or somewhere else in the ocean they may be confused. And this task is indirect.

      Quote: Old26
      What will the "Trap" give if the Americans implement, for example, the version of the Soviet "kamikaze satellite". Who will blow itself up at a distance of 1 km and stuff the enemy's reconnaissance satellite with several thousand balls?
      Evasion means? Well, of course, there are engines, as well as a certain amount of fuel, but only the change in orbit is a "long-lasting" process. Especially if there is a change in orbit inclination


      If yes if ... When implemented, then it will be clear.
      If in orbit everyone will scatter clusters of balls, then there will be no satellites at all. No one's
      And now they are implementing a direct hit with guided on the IR sensor. In addition, kamikaze satellites will also not be cheap. Clearly more expensive than SM-3. And we need this to shoot down was expensive and difficult.

      Quote: Old26
      Quote: AVM
      2. Increasing the orbit of satellites in order to minimize the probability of their being hit by “cheap” means of missile defense.

      Yes, easily. Yes, even on a geostationary or on a VEO type "Lightning". Just what will "see" such a satellite from such an orbit ??? From a height of 3 hundred kilometers, satellites such as KN-11 and KN-12 have a resolution of 15 centimeters. And from a height of 5 thousand kilometers ???


      Obviously, satellites will require more advanced ones, but it’s better to see worse from a higher orbit than to see nothing if the satellite was shot down. Allowing 15 permission is certainly awesome, but you can donate it to 1-5 m.

      Quote: Old26
      Well, there are. Kubsat (cubsat) are called. Dimensions can be a dozen centimeters. That's just permission they have such that they are unlikely to see anything smaller in size than an ocean liner ...


      One yes. But there should be a lot of them. The principle of the dragonfly eye. The total resolution of the system may be high.
  18. +1
    9 February 2019 23: 44
    Quote: AVM
    Let me tell you a secret. A modern submarine, for example Project 885, is "both a Shvets, and a reaper, and a gamer on a pipe." And the CD launches, and carries out torpedoes and mine laying.

    The SSGN will not have 16 mines, but 96 or more, depending on how many launchers for the CD can be placed in the weapons bay. The mines have the same diameter of 533 mm as the KR "Caliber". both of them can be launched from torpedo tubes, but the length of the mines is 2 times less. So it turns out 200-2540 minutes.

    The boat of the 885 project is of course universal, more precisely multi-purpose, but at the same time it cannot do all that you say. Yes, it can launch torpedoes, even put mines through TA, but if you put mines on the launch ones, then you can put a big and fat cross on the ability to launch cruise missiles from them. Or or. Either you are trying to launch cruise missiles at the 32 target, or are trying to place mines. There is no third. Shakhty on boats project 955 SIXTEEN... How many missiles you can put there depends on the type of cruise missiles. There are more "calibers". They can theoretically be put into the mine in the amount of 9. "Onyxes" - less by a couple of pieces. On the 885 project, there are only 8 launch silos in which a maximum of 4 missiles can be accommodated. Ammunition for TA on boats of Project 955A, as well as on Project 885 - up to 30 units. If the crews are not members of the "suicide corporation", then mines will not be the main weapon of these boats. Laying minefields is an auxiliary, and by no means the main task. So in any case, the 955 project does not even reach 200 in terms of the number of CDs. As for the mines, I repeat. If you load two mines into an SLBM launcher, then you still won't get more than fifty

    Quote: AVM
    The amount of CR will be reduced by about 12-24 pcs. And that’s it ..

    On Borea, this may not be so critical, although if only 4 out of 16 mines are used for saboteurs, then the number of CDs will decrease by 28 for Onyx and by 36 for Caliber. For Ash it is even technically impossible , since there are EMNIP inclined launchers. But even if they use again 4 mines, then four ammunition will remain 16 units. Out of 32. That is, it will be reduced by half

    Quote: AVM
    Quote: Old26
    What, if not a secret long-range missiles, you can equip the SSGN?


    If on the basis of S-10 "Granat" they made a non-nuclear "Caliber", then the reverse process can be relatively easily implemented.

    Easily. But here only the SSGNK are mainly intended for work on AUG. And what can a boat with subsonic cruise missiles (not anti-ship missiles), even with SBCh, be able to do with AUG? The launch of such missiles from a distance of a hundred kilometers on the AUG will lead to the fact that the missiles will be shot down almost immediately after leaving the water. On the shore - there it is possible. But the SSGNT for firing at the shore with nuclear missiles is still somewhat redundant. Yes, and the maximum distance such a rocket will go more than 3 hours. Meaning???

    Quote: AVM
    Quote: Old26
    Don't consider your opponent stupid. And it is unlikely that such a ruse is misled by the enemy. Moreover, usually SSBNs and SSGNs are based in different places. And it is better to "overlook" than "overlook". Even if it were possible to build another 4-8 SSGNs on the basis of the Borey project, we will do it no earlier than 15-20 years later, since Borey are built exclusively at one enterprise and the stocks there are not dimensionless. So it will be easier for them to track both strategists and cruise missiles.


    Borei will finish building in 2021-2023. The slipways will be released.
    And about the confuse - when leaving the base point, yes, but in the straits or somewhere else in the ocean they can also be confused. And this is an indirect task ..

    In 2024, it is planned to lay down two more boats of Project 955A. The issue of building boats of Project 955B has not yet been resolved. And if it is decided, then from 26-27. So I'm afraid that by 2021 - 2023 the stocks will not be free. They try to keep track of all outputs. In the ocean, it can be confused, but don't you think that immediately after they come out on the tail, boats-hunters will try to land .. ???

    Quote: AVM
    Quote: Old26
    What will the "Trap" give if the Americans implement, for example, the version of the Soviet "kamikaze satellite". Who will blow itself up at a distance of 1 km and stuff the enemy's reconnaissance satellite with several thousand balls?
    Evasion means? Well, of course, there are engines, as well as a certain amount of fuel, but only the change in orbit is a "long-lasting" process. Especially if there is a change in orbit inclination


    If yes if ... When implemented, then it will be clear.
    If in orbit everyone will scatter clusters of balls, then there will be no satellites at all. No one's
    And now they are implementing a direct hit with guided on the IR sensor. In addition, kamikaze satellites will also not be cheap. Clearly more expensive than SM-3. And we need this to shoot down was expensive and difficult.

    And what, a super-complex engineering task is to place a charge on the satellite in 100 kg and make the fragmentation field to be formed. Disk or tapered ???
    And no one will scatter any balls, especially clusters. For in principle they will not give anything, especially if the scattering place is at a distance of several hundred kilometers. Tired of all this talk about a bucket or a car of nails in orbit. Anti-satellite systems have always been and remain focused.
    Well, the fact that they put a kinetic interceptor is not the worst option. Much better than blowing a megaton charge and destroy both the enemy and its own.
    How is it that suddenly kamikaze satellites will be more expensive? So in 60-70 it was not an expensive affair, but now it has suddenly become expensive? Are ball bearing balls more expensive? Or ordinary explosives? Much cheaper than the same SM-3. And unlike the SM-3, such a satellite can rotate in orbit as much as needed ...

    Quote: AVM
    Obviously, satellites will require more advanced ones, but it’s better to see worse from a higher orbit than to see nothing if the satellite was shot down. Allowing 15 permission is certainly awesome, but you can donate it to 1-5 m.

    Of course, you can donate and the photograph will not be clear what it is? Car or launcher, and maybe a pipe carrier or a car with tree trunks?
    Do you seriously think that it is very easy to shoot down a satellite? It took the Americans several weeks before they were able to shoot down a satellite with a rocket from a ship, and even when it was in the plane of fire. Well, one can and can be, but 5 or 7, and if they are scattered at altitudes from 300 to 1000 km with different orbits inclinations? Or do you think that you will have a mass of anti-satellite missiles to solve such problems ???

    Quote: AVM
    Quote: Old26
    Well, there are. Kubsat (cubsat) are called. Dimensions can be a dozen centimeters. That's just permission they have such that they are unlikely to see anything smaller in size than an ocean liner ...

    One yes. But there should be a lot of them. The principle of the dragonfly eye. The total resolution of the system may be high.

    So this is not a dragonfly eye. These are small satellites scattered at a great distance. They do not give such a view. Every man for himself ...
    1. 0
      10 February 2019 11: 00
      Quote: Old26
      The boat of the 885 project is of course universal, more precisely multi-purpose, but at the same time it cannot do all that you say. Yes, it can launch torpedoes, even put mines through TA, but if you put mines on the launch ones, then you can put a big and fat cross on the ability to launch cruise missiles from them. Or or. Either you are trying to launch cruise missiles at the 32 target, or are trying to place mines. There is no third. Shakhty on boats project 955 SIXTEEN... How many missiles you can put there depends on the type of cruise missiles. There are more "calibers". They can theoretically be put into the mine in the amount of 9. "Onyxes" - less by a couple of pieces. On the 885 project, there are only 8 launch silos in which a maximum of 4 missiles can be accommodated. Ammunition for TA on boats of Project 955A, as well as on Project 885 - up to 30 units. If the crews are not members of the "suicide corporation", then mines will not be the main weapon of these boats. Laying minefields is an auxiliary, and by no means the main task. So in any case, the 955 project does not even reach 200 in terms of the number of CDs. As for the mines, I repeat. If you load two mines into an SLBM launcher, then you still won't get more than fifty


      Let's leave 885 alone. About her speech in general in the article was not, it is shown as an example of universality. Mines in it are launched through TA, rockets remain in the mines.

      The distinction of the Borey SSGK from the Ohio base SSGNCs is that the Ohio was converted from the existing submarine. The armament compartment in the Borey SSGN can be placed more rationally, without reference to the 16 pipes, so to speak square-nested. But it may be structurally more convenient to the mines, it is for designers to decide.

      And yes, PLARK ammunition will be determined by its task. Need to put 200 min? Then the CD in the mines will not, this is understandable.

      Quote: Old26
      On Borea, this may not be so critical, although if only 4 out of 16 mines are used for saboteurs, then the number of CDs will decrease by 28 for Onyx and by 36 for Caliber. For Ash it is even technically impossible , since there are EMNIP inclined launchers. But even if they use again 4 mines, then four ammunition will remain 16 units. Out of 32. That is, it will be reduced by half


      Again, I repeat - The distinction of the Borey SSGK from the Ohio base SSGNCs is that the Ohio was converted from the existing submarine. The armament compartment in the Borey SSGN can be placed more rationally. The length of the "Bulava" 12 meters, KR - 8-9 meters, in containers the difference will be meters 3-4, i.e. perhaps when designing, and not during reworking, a place for saboteurs can be made under the armament compartment, without reducing ammunition. In any case, I would say so, the task is secondary, I would not trade it for reducing ammunition.


      Quote: Old26
      Easily. But here only the SSGNK are mainly intended for work on AUG. And what can a boat with subsonic cruise missiles (not anti-ship missiles), even with SBCh, be able to do with AUG? The launch of such missiles from a distance of a hundred kilometers on the AUG will lead to the fact that the missiles will be shot down almost immediately after leaving the water. On the shore - there it is possible. But the SSGNT for firing at the shore with nuclear missiles is still somewhat redundant. Yes, and the maximum distance such a rocket will go more than 3 hours. Meaning???


      Strange. Will our fighting last for less than three hours? Why, then, in general, the CD with SBSH? Aviation X-102, for example? Or the so-called "Petrel"?

      And again you have mixed everything. SBCh is on the ground. In the article, all tasks are listed in points. Equipping SSGN missiles with SBCh is a simple way to increase the nuclear arsenal, if necessary.

      By the way most of the world RCC subsonic.


      Quote: Old26
      In 2024, it is planned to lay down two more boats of Project 955A. The issue of building boats of Project 955B has not yet been resolved. And if it is decided, then from 26-27. So I'm afraid that by 2021 - 2023 the stocks will not be free. They try to keep track of all outputs. In the ocean, it can be confused, but don't you think that immediately after they come out on the tail, boats-hunters will try to land .. ???


      Exactly what is “planned” can “plan out”. By 955B in general, it seems like the cancellation was.

      Quote: Old26
      And what, a super-complex engineering task is to place a charge on the satellite in 100 kg and make the fragmentation field to be formed. Disk or tapered ???
      And no one will scatter any balls, especially clusters. For in principle they will not give anything, especially if the scattering place is at a distance of several hundred kilometers. Tired of all this talk about a bucket or a car of nails in orbit. Anti-satellite systems have always been and remain focused.
      Well, the fact that they put a kinetic interceptor is not the worst option. Much better than blowing a megaton charge and destroy both the enemy and its own.
      How is it that suddenly kamikaze satellites will be more expensive? So in 60-70 it was not an expensive affair, but now it has suddenly become expensive? Are ball bearing balls more expensive? Or ordinary explosives? Much cheaper than the same SM-3. And unlike the SM-3, such a satellite can rotate in orbit as much as needed ...


      and right there

      Quote: Old26

      Of course, you can donate and the photograph will not be clear what it is? Car or launcher, and maybe a pipe carrier or a car with tree trunks?
      Do you seriously think that it is very easy to shoot down a satellite? It took the Americans several weeks before they were able to shoot down a satellite with a rocket from a ship, and even when it was in the plane of fire. Well, one can and can be, but 5 or 7, and if they are scattered at altitudes from 300 to 1000 km with different orbits inclinations? Or do you think that you will have a mass of anti-satellite missiles to solve such problems ???


      You contradict yourself. "That is what is difficult to do," then "One satellite was shot down for several weeks." If everything is simple, then we must deal with it, if not - then do not bother.
      As for the kamikaze satellite, since they are so simple, it means hanging their kamikazes near their reconnaissance 2-3 to destroy the approaching enemy vehicles.

      Quote: Old26
      So this is not a dragonfly eye. These are small satellites scattered at a great distance. They do not give such a view. Every man for himself ...


      The question is how many there will be. And how the image will be processed, and how they will be located. That is, for example, a bunch of grapes is displayed. A bunch of cubes 10 pcs. and they are placed at a distance of 5-10 km from each other in a certain order. With one shot you can’t get it all down, but shooting everything is expensive and troublesome.
  19. 0
    10 February 2019 05: 28
    Israel neighbors bombed because of loans?!?
    1. 0
      10 February 2019 10: 35
      Quote: M. Michelson
      Israel neighbors bombed because of loans?!?


      Not. But Israel is hammering on its neighbors because of the smallest, even potential threat. Including those, part of whose territory is occupied. I actually do not care, let them understand.
      I am attracted to Israel’s determination to use weapons without regard to others.
  20. +1
    10 February 2019 14: 30
    Quote: AVM
    The armament compartment in the Borey submarine can be placed more rationally, without being tied to exactly 16 pipes, so to speak, square-nested. But maybe it is structurally more convenient for mines, it is for designers to decide.

    And yes, PLARK ammunition will be determined by its task. Need to put 200 min? Then the CD in the mines will not, this is understandable.

    These are all words. Rational, irrational. Do you consider the designers of “Rubin” clumsy, who of all the options have chosen the most irrational. Don't forget that launchers need to be versatile. What is the diameter you propose to make? A diameter of 533 mm, 650, 720, or 1,5 meters?
    Even if we assume that the caliber of the launch shafts are not made the same as that of the 955 project, but by others, then these will no longer be boats of the 955 project, but something else. But EVEN IF SUPPLYthat such a caliber of launchers will be 1,5 meters - such pipes in the hull of the boat can be placed a maximum of 1,5 times more, for example 24. There will be no "square-socket" type. For simply WHERE WILL BE open the lid mine. Opening one at this location, you close the other with the lid of the shaft. Do you consider it constructively convenient ???
    Look at the shafts of this boat. How they open. If you place another "line" of mines, where they will open


    But the boat itself. Mine located irrational? How many even smaller diameters can we put into this building without disturbing its fluid dynamics ???


    Ammunition is really determined by the task. But at the same time, the NUCLEAR SUBMARINE WITH WINGED ROCKETS not a task UNDERWATER MINING PLAYER. The submarine is designed in principle for one task - the fight against enemy KUG / AUG. An additional task may be the task of striking along the coast, although firing subsonic missiles along the coast will be effective only if the air defense of the country you strike is weak. Or when she has no air defense at all. Or when before this this country "ironed" ballistic missiles with nuclear charges. Otherwise, the probability is very high that from a large number of CDs, little will reach the goal

    Quote: AVM
    Again, I repeat - The difference between the Borey submarine and the Ohio-based submarine is that the Ohio was converted from an existing submarine. The armament compartment in the Borey submarine can be placed more rationally. The length of the Mace is 12 meters, the Kyrgyz Republic is 8–9 meters, the difference in containers is 3-4 meters, i.e. perhaps during design, and not during alteration, a place for saboteurs can be made under the weapons compartment, without reducing ammunition. In any case, I would say so, the task is secondary, I would not exchange it for reducing ammunition.

    I repeat. Do you think that the location of launchers on the boat is not rational, both from the point of view of the design solution, and from the point of view of hydrodynamics ???
    Saboteurs under the weapons compartment? Or maybe it is better to place them inside the first loop of the reactor? As well?

    You can find out where you are going to place them under the weapons compartment? Is there a place? Or will they lie there? And the way to the surface how do you plan? Or does it no longer matter? And where will the self-propelled underwater vehicles be located?



    You have some kind, forgive amateurish idea of ​​design. You want to do everything at once. So that you have a boat carrying boplov, and rockets, and mines. And such JUST DO NOT HAPPEN. Design is always a compromise. The boat must be a universal weapon. And in order to change the target, it should not go to the base, change its ammunition there. I repeat, the idea of ​​making an underwater mine layer from a submarine mine diverter is not the best idea and practically unrealizable. You will end up with a highly specialized ship, which must be placed almost in the dock to complete the next mission.

    Quote: AVM
    Strange. Will our fighting last for less than three hours? Why, then, in general, the CD with SBSH? Aviation X-102, for example? Or the so-called "Petrel"?

    And again you have mixed everything. SBCh is on the ground. In the article, all tasks are listed in points. Equipping SSGN missiles with SBCh is a simple way to increase the nuclear arsenal, if necessary.

    By the way most of the world RCC subsonic.

    And how long do you think the fighting will last? A week? Month? Half a year? If with the USA, then everything can end in an hour and a half. And maybe even less. Everything else will be finishing on individual goals. Or the suppression of individual foci of resistance. And there they can snap ...
    Why KR with special parts? For war with serious opponents at the initial stage, they are ineffective. To fight a weak opponent, they can come in handy, and it may be enough normal charges.
    Why do we need aviation X-102 with a charge? Only in order in the event of war to ruin another town in the territory of the enemy. If you are lucky there will be no air defense zones on the route. Maximum for stripping ....
    Sach on the ground? For God's sake. But you don’t know if it will reach the target with its subsonic speed, especially since it will have to fly to the target for several hours. But in principle, it is possible, if necessary, to knock down and from a large-caliber machine gun. And from an MPA or short-range anti-aircraft missiles - without any problems at all. Only one thing is needed. To fix it in flight. And then how it will not tell you no one. Increase in arsenal by equipping all cruise missiles on a boat with nuclear warheads? This has never happened. Even in Soviet times, in the midst of the Cold War, the submarines did not carry ALL nuclear missiles. EMNIP on 949 project boats from 24 missiles only 4 or 6 were with nuclear charge. But not all 24. And here you are going to not only place hundreds of missiles on such 2-2,5 boats, and equip everything with nuclear warheads. That is, the sinking of such a boat - just minus 2,5 hundreds of charges ????

    Most RCC subsonic? Yes, in principle, this is true, approximately 60 percent. And especially when it comes to short- and medium-range missiles. For a long range use and supersonic. Again in different countries in different ways.
    1. 0
      10 February 2019 16: 29
      Quote: Old26
      These are all words. Rational, irrational. Do you consider the designers of “Rubin” clumsy, who of all the options have chosen the most irrational. Don't forget that launchers need to be versatile. What is the diameter you propose to make? A diameter of 533 mm, 650, 720, or 1,5 meters?
      Even if we assume that the caliber of the launch shafts are not made the same as that of the 955 project, but by others, then these will no longer be boats of the 955 project, but something else. But EVEN IF SUPPLYthat such a caliber of launchers will be 1,5 meters - such pipes in the hull of the boat can be placed a maximum of 1,5 times more, for example 24. There will be no "square-socket" type. For simply WHERE WILL BE open the lid mine. Opening one at this location, you close the other with the lid of the shaft. Do you consider it constructively convenient ???
      But the boat itself. Mine located irrational? How many even smaller diameters can we put into this building without disturbing its fluid dynamics ???


      No need to attribute to me what I did not say. And here is what the designers have chosen for the SSBN? Yes, it is possible to place the launch stations in existing mines like this:


      And you can, as here:


      It is better to decide just the designers. Obviously, in the first version of the work less, but in the second more ammunition.


      Quote: Old26
      Ammunition is really determined by the task. But at the same time, the NUCLEAR SUBMARINE WITH WINGED ROCKETS not a task UNDERWATER MINING PLAYER. The SSGN is designed, in principle, for one task - the fight against the enemy's CUG / AUG.


      This is already decided on the basis of the needs of the Navy. If there is such an opportunity, the task may appear the same.

      Quote: Old26
      As an additional task, there may be the task of striking the coast, although firing subsonic rockets at the coast will be effective only with weak air defense from the country on which you strike. Or when she has no air defense at all. Or when before this country "ironed" ballistic missiles with nuclear charges. Otherwise, the probability is very high that from a large number of CDs, little will reach the goal


      And how the defense will beat off a massive blow subsonic KR is another question. Only high-altitude detectors will help here, since conventional air defense interferes with relief. And the US defense is weaker than the Russian.



      Quote: Old26
      Saboteurs under the weapons compartment? Or maybe it is better to place them inside the first loop of the reactor? As well?

      You can find out where you are going to place them under the weapons compartment? Is there a place? Or will they lie there? And the way to the surface how do you plan? Or does it no longer matter? And where will the self-propelled underwater vehicles be located?


      And from the side, in a nearby mine, is it normal? The difference in the length of the starting Mace and Caliber / P-800 is approximately 4 meter. The apartments ceiling 3 meter. And the devices are generally located outside.


      Quote: Old26
      You have some kind, forgive amateurish idea of ​​design. You want to do everything at once. So that you have a boat carrying boplov, and rockets, and mines. And such JUST DO NOT HAPPEN. Design is always a compromise. The boat must be a universal weapon. And in order to change the target, it should not go to the base, change its ammunition there. I repeat, the idea of ​​making an underwater mine layer from a submarine mine diverter is not the best idea and practically unrealizable. You will end up with a highly specialized ship, which must be placed almost in the dock to complete the next mission.


      I did not write about UAVs on the PLARK, they are launched from the shore. Although if you make a one-time UAV scout based on Caliber, it will be a good help.
      Ammunition before the release is optimized for the task and this is normal. It is for this and make UVP. Ammunition changes on Tikonderogs and on Arly Berks, and on others. PU under one rocket (949A) is just not normal. Calibers run from TA 533 mm, mines, too, what's the problem? You do not know that mines can any boat with 533 mm TA put?
      And in the dock it is not necessary to put it to change ammunition. The normal operation of loading the BC, as in 885 or the same SSGN "Ohio".


      Quote: Old26
      And how long do you think the fighting will last? A week? Month? Half a year? If with the USA, then everything can end in an hour and a half. And maybe even less. Everything else will be finishing on individual goals. Or the suppression of individual foci of resistance. And there they can snap ...
      Why KR with special parts? For war with serious opponents at the initial stage, they are ineffective. To fight a weak opponent, they can come in handy, and it may be enough normal charges.
      Why do we need aviation X-102 with a charge? Only in order in the event of war to ruin another town in the territory of the enemy. If you are lucky there will be no air defense zones on the route. Maximum for stripping ....


      This is if in the nuclear version, but it does not necessarily begin. The exchange of non-nuclear strikes is quite real, even with the United States, something to talk about others. As for air defense, it’s still a controversial question how many low-flying CDs they will intercept.

      Quote: Old26
      Sach on the ground? For God's sake. But you don’t know if it will reach the target with its subsonic speed, especially since it will have to fly to the target for several hours. But in principle, it is possible, if necessary, to knock down and from a large-caliber machine gun. And from an MPA or short-range anti-aircraft missiles - without any problems at all. Only one thing is needed. To fix it in flight. And then how it will not tell you no one. Increase in arsenal by equipping all cruise missiles on a boat with nuclear warheads? This has never happened. Even in Soviet times, in the midst of the Cold War, the submarines did not carry ALL nuclear missiles. EMNIP on 949 project boats from 24 missiles only 4 or 6 were with nuclear charge. But not all 24. And here you are going to not only place hundreds of missiles on such 2-2,5 boats, and equip everything with nuclear warheads. That is, the sinking of such a boat - just minus 2,5 hundreds of charges ????


      And sinking SSBNs with 200 charges is this normal? This is me about the Shark 941 - 20 missiles on 10 warheads. And Ohio and more can carry. And in Soviet times, we were not in such a deep ass as now, in terms of conventional weapons.

      A lot of CD from a large-caliber machine gun beat? Or is it like in Iraq when Apache seems to have been knocked out of karamultuk?
  21. 0
    10 February 2019 14: 34
    Quote: AVM
    Exactly what is “planned” can “plan out”. By 955B in general, it seems like the cancellation was.

    To begin with, this project was postponed. Until the end of this period, the armament program, that is, until 2027. Whether this project will be implemented, I don’t know, but in any case, in the year 21 the slipway is unlikely to be free due to the fact that two more boats are planning

    Quote: AVM
    You contradict yourself. "That is what is difficult to do," then "One satellite was shot down for several weeks." If everything is simple, then we must deal with it, if not - then do not bother.
    As for the kamikaze satellite, since they are so simple, it means hanging their kamikazes near their reconnaissance 2-3 to destroy the approaching enemy vehicles.

    Not at all. You don’t understand that, technically, the problem is sometimes solved very simply and cheaply (kamikaze satellites), but organizationally — the process of shooting down is rather complicated. At first, it took us 2 turns. At the end of the tests, it was a half-turn circuit. When using ground means - interceptor missiles - this problem is even more complicated.
    At the same time, even if it is difficult, you still need to "bother". And not to approach this according to the principle - easy - we will do it, hard - well, he nafig
    Hang 2-3 of your "kamikaze" next to your companion ??? Are you so sure that you can deduce absolutely accurately and level the speeds with an accuracy of fractions of a meter per second? Or link them together. And how are you going to do this with satellites that move on a VEO or geostationary ????
    Or do you think that the "duel" will take place at the "pistol shot" range? Our ISs had a forward range of about 1 km. Back - about 400-500 meters. You are going to destroy any satellite that comes this distance to the reconnaissance satellite. The problem of interception has always been only one thing - to accurately bring the kamikaze satellite to the target.

    Quote: AVM
    The question is how many there will be. And how the image will be processed, and how they will be located. That is, for example, a bunch of grapes is displayed. A bunch of cubes 10 pcs. and they are placed at a distance of 5-10 km from each other in a certain order. With one shot you can’t get it all down, but shooting everything is expensive and troublesome.

    In fact, there can be up to 60-70 cubesats on a carrier. But they are displayed "one by one", and not in clusters. They can be used as intelligence satellites only at the very first stage. When good resolution is not required from satellites. So, what is next? You are placing a bunch. although no one in the world has ever done this (how will you achieve the same position in space and synchronization - you probably only know. The next one will be at a distance of 5-10 km. But the fact that you will not receive an image suitable for identification, for example, a launcher, is a 100% guarantee. are capable of shooting at night and cannot perform multispectral shooting.
    1. 0
      24 February 2019 13: 15
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: AVM
      The question is how many there will be. And how the image will be processed, and how they will be located. That is, for example, a bunch of grapes is displayed. A bunch of cubes 10 pcs. and they are placed at a distance of 5-10 km from each other in a certain order. With one shot you can’t get it all down, but shooting everything is expensive and troublesome.

      Actually, there can be up to 60-70 cubesats on a carrier. But they are displayed "one by one", and not in clusters. They can be used as intelligence satellites only at the very first stage. When good resolution is not required from satellites. So, what is next? You are placing a bunch. although no one has ever done this in the world (how will you achieve the same position in space and synchronization - you probably only know. The next one will be at a distance of 5-10 km. The point is, if you do not get the desired picture due to the low permissions.


      Accidentally stumbled upon an article on Habré. Just about the group launch of small satellites and their synchronous placement in orbit, also with a change of location.

      Artificial constellation picture

      And then in the year 2018 appears ... a startup called StartRocket, the purpose of which is to create a certain recognizable picture (half the size of the moon) in the sky, clearly visible on Earth with the naked eye, with the ability to change its light state to display any logo or word.

      That is, they have already threatened a larger sector in the sky than a small dot in the “Star of Humanity”.

      To form a multipoint image (picture) in the sky will be a swarm of small satellites (cubsat), equipped with large reflective elements (it is planned that this will be an unfolding sail from Mylar with a diameter of 10 meters), which can be turned (and also changing the arrangement of satellites in the line) the amount of reflected sunlight and receive different images.

      Estimated number of satellites in one swarm (for a string of 5 letters): 20 x 5 = 100 pcs.

      This technology in the StartRocket called "Orbital Display", it is based on the management of a fleet of cubes, at an altitude of 400-500 km. It is planned that such a matrix of cubsat will be in orbit of the Earth and move at a constant speed, allowing the picture from the reflected sun candle to remain in the field of view of the observer for only a few minutes.

      It is planned to control the constellation of such satellites in its own MCC from the Earth in order to promptly change their trajectories in order to avoid collisions with other satellites in Earth orbit or with space debris.


      https://habr.com/ru/post/441180/
  22. +1
    10 February 2019 21: 13
    [quote = AVM] No need to ascribe to me what I did not say. And here is what the designers chose for SSBNs? Yes, it is possible to place launch launchers in existing mines as here:

    And you can, as here:
    The best way is for designers to decide. Obviously, the first option has less work, but the second has more ammunition. [/ Quote]
    But in the first case, the number of missiles is limited by the number of SLBM launchers in each of which there are 7 "axes". There are 154 cruise missiles on the boat. In the second case, in the launch shaft of the boat there is ONE WINGED ROCKET with a caliber of 533 mm. And that's all. Such launchers can be arranged in three rows, but their number is limited by the size of the rocket compartment. Even if you can place 25-30 such mines in a line, the total number of missiles will not be more than 90 pieces. NO 200-240

    [quote = AVM] Quote: Old26
    Ammunition is really determined by the task. But at the same time, the ATOMIC SUBMARINE with WINGED ROCKETS is not, under the tasks performed, a SUBMARINE MINING LOADER. The submarine is designed in principle for one task - the fight against enemy KUG / AUG.

    This is already being decided based on the needs of the Navy. If there is such an opportunity, the task may appear the same. [/ Quote]
    Sure. from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Maybe the need for the fleet to set minefields will appear, but "minus" the boat from the combat strength, of which there are not so many, will only say that the admirals who have gone to this do not even live in the last war ...

    [quote = AVM]
    Quote: Old26
    As an additional task, the task of striking along the coast can be, although firing subsonic missiles along the coast will be effective only if the air defense of the country you are striking against will be weak. Or when it has no air defense at all. Or when, before that, this country was "ironed" with ballistic missiles with nuclear charges. Otherwise, there is a very high probability that from a large number of RCs, few will reach the target.

    And how air defense will repel a massive blow by subsonic missile defense is another question. Only high-altitude detectors will help here, because relief is interfering with conventional air defense. And the US air defense is weaker than the Russian. [/ Quote]
    When launching from a boat, the rocket rises first to a height of about 150 meters. You decide what the radio horizon will be for everyone. In high-altitude and low-altitude detectors, in radars on ships, in radars of fighter aircraft, not to mention DRLO airplanes?
    Do you seriously think that the attack of cruise missiles will be all over the border of the country ??? The principle of cruise missile navigation is familiar to you? Each of the sides, or rather the intelligence of each of the parties, is trying to figure out possible routes of attack. And they will not go in waves of several hundred pieces.

    As for air defense, each country has its pros and cons. We have a strong ground defense, the Americans have a naval defense, and they have more fighters ...

    [quote = AVM]
    Quote: Old26
    Saboteurs under the weapons compartment? Or maybe it is better to place them inside the first loop of the reactor? As well?

    Can I find out where you are going to place them under the weapons compartment? Is there a place there? Or will they be there lying? And how do you plan to surface? Or does it no longer matter? And where will the self-propelled underwater vehicles be located? [/ Quote]

    Is it normal in the side mine? The difference in the length of the launch Mace and Caliber / P-800 is approximately 4 meters. The apartments have a ceiling of 3 meters. And the devices are actually located outside. [/ Quote]
    In the next mine - yes, there are no pritenzy. And the devices outside are also no pritenzy, but not under the weapons compartment, as you suggested. I also agree with the difference. And under the launcher, under the weapons compartment there are no valves? Is there a bare space ???

    [quote = AVM]
    Quote: Old26
    You have some, excuse the amateurish idea of ​​design. You want to do everything at once. So that your boat carries boplov, and rockets, and mines. And there just DOESN’T HAPPEN THIS. Designing is always a compromise. The boat should be a universal weapon. And in order to change the target, she should not go to the base, change her ammunition there. I repeat, the idea of ​​making an underwater mine layer from PLARK is not the best idea and practically unrealizable. You will end up with a highly specialized ship, which, to complete the next mission, should be almost docked [/ quote]

    I did not write about UAVs on the PLARK, they are launched from the shore. Although if you make a one-time UAV scout based on Caliber, it will be a good help.
    Ammunition before the release is optimized for the task and this is normal. It is for this and make UVP. Ammunition changes on Tikonderogs and on Arly Berks, and on others. PU under one rocket (949A) is just not normal. Calibers run from TA 533 mm, mines, too, what's the problem? You do not know that mines can any boat with 533 mm TA put?
    And you do not need to put it on the dock to change the ammunition. The usual operation of loading the CD, as on 885 or the same Ohio submarine. [/ Quote]
    What did I write about the UAV? Dear Andrew! You are writing an article about the possibilities of using the boat both as a PMZ, and as a SSGN, and as a carrier of saboteurs, but it seems you do not know that the BOPL is not a UAV (besiotny aircraft), but a COMBAT
    Before the release, it is really optimized at Burke and Ticonderoga too. But at the same time NEVER focuses exclusively on one weapon. Tikonderyogi can take the maximum amount of missiles, and some of the Berkov may be in the shock version, and some in the zenith (or even anti-missile). But it is never done that there is only one type of weapon. And you have that way. If you are going to put mines, placing them in the silo, then in these silos you will have nothing else.
    As for the launch of mines through TA - and I did not deny it. But here only 200-240 mines you talked about will not be there. A dozen - a maximum.
    Do not put in the dock? May be. But the boat will definitely go to the factory. For in the mine of the 855 project boat there are certain structures in which cruise missiles are located. And to place cruise missiles there as an ammunition package is elementary, but if you are going to put mines ....

    [quote = AVM]
    Quote: Old26
    And how long do you think the fighting will last? A week? Month? Half a year? If with the USA, then everything can end in an hour and a half. And maybe even less. Everything else will be finishing on individual goals. Or the suppression of individual foci of resistance. And there they can snap ...
    Why KR with special parts? For war with serious opponents at the initial stage, they are ineffective. To fight a weak opponent, they can come in handy, and it may be enough normal charges.
    Why do we need an aviation X-102 with a charge? Only in order to destroy another town in the territory of the enemy in case of war. If you are lucky, there will be no air defense zones on the flight route. Maximum for stripping .... [/ quote]

    This is if in the nuclear version, but it does not necessarily begin. The exchange of non-nuclear strikes is quite real, even with the United States, what can I say about others. As for air defense, it is still a moot point how many low-flying KR they will intercept. [/ Quote]
    Do you seriously think that if the question should be the ship (or boat) should die from the impact of non-nuclear missiles or is there an option to carry the commander to the grave with him the enemy does not use nuclear charges? Or planes from an aircraft carrier will iron the city with non-nuclear charges (the name is not so important, Leningrad, Murmansk, Severdvinsk or some other), and in this zone will our boat with a nuclear cruise missile, it will not allow a nuclear charge to the bottom of the aircraft carrier? Or if such a boat turns out to be in the zone, well, Guam’s example, the boat doesn’t bounce on the airbase at which there are a dozen other nuclear strategists, knowing that the fighting is already under way and not knowing whether strategic nuclear weapons have been used or not?

    [quote = AVM]
    Quote: Old26
    UBC on the ground? For God's sake. But you don’t know whether it will reach the target with its subsonic speed, especially since it will have to fly for several hours to the target. But in principle, it can, if necessary, be shot down from a heavy machine gun. And from MZA or short-range anti-aircraft missiles - without any problems at all. Only one thing is needed. Fix it in flight. And then how it works out no one will tell you. An increase in arsenal by equipping all cruise missiles on a boat with nuclear charges? This has never happened before. Even in Soviet times, in the midst of the Cold War, SSGNs did not carry ALL nuclear missiles. EMNIP on boats of project 949A out of 24 missiles, only 4 or 6 were with a nuclear charge. But by no means all 24. And you are going to not only place 2-2,5 hundreds of missiles on such boats, but to equip everything with a nuclear charge. That is, the sinking of such a boat - immediately minus 2,5 hundreds of charges ????
    [/ Quote]
    And sinking SSBNs with 200 charges is this normal? This is me about the Shark 941 - 20 missiles on 10 warheads. And Ohio and more can carry. And in Soviet times, we were not in such a deep ass as now, in terms of conventional weapons.

    A lot of CDs from a heavy machine gun were planted? Or is it like in Iraq when Apache was sort of shot down from a karamultuk? [/ Quote]
    Is it technically possible? No, theoretically, of course it is possible, but modern complexes are able to shoot off the pier. And in the patrol zone SSBNs still need to be found. At least this is possible only theoretically.
    Of the heavy machine guns? EMNIP such cases of damage to cruise missiles were in Iraq (at the initial stage) and a couple of cases in Yugoslavia.
    1. 0
      11 February 2019 09: 29
      Quote: Old26
      But in the first case, the number of missiles is limited by the number of SLBM launchers in each of which there are 7 "axes". There are 154 cruise missiles on the boat. In the second case, in the launch shaft of the boat there is ONE WINGED ROCKET with a caliber of 533 mm. And that's all. Such launchers can be arranged in three rows, but their number is limited by the size of the rocket compartment. Even if you can place 25-30 such mines in a line, the total number of missiles will not be more than 90 pieces. NO 200-240


      In the article:

      Ammunition of the KR / PKR of a single SSGN based on the 955А / B project is expected to be on the order of the 100-120 КР / КР in the vertical start installations (УПП), i.e. one and a half times more than in the 949AM project, with the same displacement.

      By approximate estimations, 96 will be located in mines, 110 if by rows + 4 / 10 can be launched from TA, hence 100-120. Of course, this is not accurate, but 96 should get into it.

      A volley in the 200-240 RCC with two SSGNs will "break through" any air defense.

      It is understood that there will be at least 2 boats per fleet.

      Modern sea mines, designed for use of torpedo tubes from 533 mm, may well be adapted to be placed in the CIP by two pieces per launcher. Thus, a mine attack of one SSGN can be 200-240 min.


      Quote: Old26
      Sure. from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Maybe the need for the fleet to set minefields will appear, but "minus" the boat from the combat strength, of which there are not so many, will only say that the admirals who have gone to this do not even live in the last war ...


      The whole point is that reworking the SSGN for this is not required. Fighting develops unpredictable. Sometimes it is more important to detain the enemy, to prevent access, than to destroy something - A2AD (restriction and prohibition of access and maneuver) - the concept of deterring the enemy by creating an increased danger for the deployment or movement of enemy forces in the protected area.
      The only problem is whether it will be possible to place these mines in two. They are suitable in length, some kind of container adapter may be required. But here the Navy can decide whether they need it or not.

      Quote: Old26
      When launching from a boat, the rocket rises first to a height of about 150 meters. You decide what the radio horizon will be for everyone. In high-altitude and low-altitude detectors, in radars on ships, in radars of fighter aircraft, not to mention DRLO airplanes?
      Do you seriously think that the attack of cruise missiles will be all over the border of the country ??? The principle of cruise missile navigation is familiar to you? Each of the sides, or rather the intelligence of each of the parties, is trying to figure out possible routes of attack. And they will not go in waves of several hundred pieces.


      First, as already mentioned, not only the United States can be an adversary. Yes, and 100-200 missiles (200 with two boats) for the United States except psychologically unpleasant.
      Secondly, if the CD with SBS, then they have a range of the order of 2000-3000 km. You can run from different directions, even across the Mexican border.
      Strangely, when the USA made the first Tomahawks with the SBCh, they said what a threat they had to the USSR / Russia, now, as you say, you might think that there is no point in the CD at all. But now, in addition to navigation co. the map is also Glonass, of course in the event of a nuclear conflict, its functionality will be in doubt, but for the SBC, the email may be enough. cards.

      Quote: Old26
      As for air defense, each country has its pros and cons. We have a strong ground defense, the Americans have a naval defense, and they have more fighters ...


      This is true, but it is assumed that when hitting the ground target, the launch must be outside the naval air defense. Still, the United States has a huge border. A fighter can not hang in the air constantly. That balloon radar, if the project is implemented massively, can really become a problem. We ourselves would not interfere.

      Quote: Old26
      In the next mine - yes, there are no pritenzy. And the devices outside are also no pritenzy, but not under the weapons compartment, as you suggested. I also agree with the difference. And under the launcher, under the weapons compartment there are no valves? Is there a bare space ???


      This is how the bay will be designed. Maybe the place will remain, then I can not say anything. In my opinion, the landing of saboteurs for such a large boat is not the highest priority and is given rather by analogy with the same SSGN Ohio. It is probably better to make the mines longer, with a reserve for increasing the length of the CR / PKR (more warhead or range) or some Iskander with an accelerator and a range of 1500-2000 km.
      And again, mines can be laid in a longer 3 mine; order 300 min. I know you consider setting mines with a SSGN impractical, but, I repeat, anything is possible. Mines are a dangerous weapon.

      Quote: Old26
      What did I write about the UAV? Dear Andrew! You are writing an article about the possibilities of using the boat both as a PMZ, and as a SSGN, and as a carrier of saboteurs, but it seems you do not know that the BOPL is not a UAV (besiotny aircraft), but a COMBAT


      Yes, I did not know, and maybe I forgot, I will consider it for the future.

      Quote: Old26
      Before the release, it is really optimized at Burke and Ticonderoga too. But at the same time NEVER focuses exclusively on one weapon. Tikonderyogi can take the maximum amount of missiles, and some of the Berkov may be in the shock version, and some in the zenith (or even anti-missile). But it is never done that there is only one type of weapon. And you have that way. If you are going to put mines, placing them in the silo, then in these silos you will have nothing else.


      So I spoke about the maximum amount of ammunition for each task. I do not mind combining, this is already a military matter. It is clear that there can be mixed ammunition - 70 RCC, 20 KR, 20 mines (2 in 10 mines) + TA.

      Quote: Old26
      As for the launch of mines through TA - and I did not deny it. But here only 200-240 mines you talked about will not be there. A dozen - a maximum.
      Do not put in the dock? May be. But the boat will definitely go to the factory. For in the mine of the 855 project boat there are certain structures in which cruise missiles are located. And to place cruise missiles there as an ammunition package is elementary, but if you are going to put mines ....


      About the amount I have previously written, about the placement, too. I reasoned logically. If the KR / PKR Caliber can be launched from 533 TA and mines, then taking into account that the PKR / KR Caliber can be launched from UVC, for the mines an adapter container can be made on 2 pcs. Those. mines are loaded into UVP on 2 pcs. like kr. Perhaps, from a constructive point of view, this cannot be done, or perhaps the military does not really need it. But I voiced the suggestion.

      Quote: Old26
      an hour and a half. And maybe even less. Everything else will be finishing on individual goals. Or the suppression of individual foci of resistance. And there they can snap ...
      Why KR with special parts? For war with serious opponents at the initial stage, they are ineffective. To fight a weak opponent, they can come in handy, and it may be enough normal charges.
      Why do we need aviation X-102 with a charge? Only in order in the event of war to ruin another town in the territory of the enemy. If you are lucky there will be no air defense zones on the route. Maximum for stripping ....


      So on the SSGNC can be the same
      in the event of war to ruin another town in the territory of the enemy


      Quote: Old26
      Do you seriously think that if the question should be the ship (or boat) should die from the impact of non-nuclear missiles or is there an option to carry the commander to the grave with him the enemy does not use nuclear charges? Or planes from an aircraft carrier will iron the city with non-nuclear charges (the name is not so important, Leningrad, Murmansk, Severdvinsk or some other), and in this zone will our boat with a nuclear cruise missile, it will not allow a nuclear charge to the bottom of the aircraft carrier? Or if such a boat turns out to be in the zone, well, Guam’s example, the boat doesn’t bounce on the airbase at which there are a dozen other nuclear strategists, knowing that the fighting is already under way and not knowing whether strategic nuclear weapons have been used or not?


      Maybe will follow orders? Or maybe not, and shake off the SBCh. I do not know.
  23. AAK
    0
    11 February 2019 10: 37
    Colleagues
    I’ll propose first to reflect on where our SSBNs will have to perform the tasks the author of the article will have, what they will actually be (in terms of priority and real capabilities of the Russian Navy), and, accordingly, on the basis of which projects and with what weapons it is more expedient to build these SSBNs and how can they be applied ...
    1. Based on the prevailing reality, the greatest potential threat to the Russian Federation in a possible military conflict or a full-scale war with the US / NATO, in my opinion, are:
    a) MDBs in Europe (especially in eastern, hypothetically - and in Japan) - problems with finding launching positions during deployment, minimum flying time after launching, difficulties with intercepting military air defense during massive use, low (compared to ICBMs) flight path and small KVO, the ability to strike when firing at maximum range, to the Volga region, the Urals and Western Siberia (from Japan - almost all of Primorye, lower Amur and Kamchatka), i.e. - the optimal first strike with the maximum defeat of the entire range of targets (government centers, silos and patrol areas of the Strategic Missile Forces mobile complexes, naval and air force bases, including air defense centers, locations of large groups of military units, cities, industrial, transport, civilian and military infrastructure);
    b) ICBM SSBNs of the USA, Great Britain and France - the problems are the same as in the previous paragraph, slightly longer flight time (but 1,5-2 times less than that of stationary ICBMs from the United States), achieving goals throughout the Russian Federation , as well as a significant number of targets hit, given the use on boat ICBMs RGCh with IN and a fairly small CVO;
    c) stationary-based ICBMs;
    d) equipped with missile launchers of the Kyrgyz Republic MB with nuclear submarines and surface ships, naval aircraft of the Kyrgyz Republic and discharged nuclear warheads of strategic and naval aviation, to a lesser extent - non-nuclear missile launchers.
    Thus, our existing SSGNs (pr. 949A, 855) are applicable with a certain effect only when hitting surface ship groupings (AUG, KUG - this is only the 4th most dangerous threat), and hypothetical (based on pr. 955A / B ) taking into account secrecy and combat stability - also as a small reserve in a retaliatory nuclear strike when equipping the KR with nuclear warheads.
    I do not think that large ship groupings, incl. AUG, during the course of hostilities will come closer to our borders closer than 800-1000 km. On the North Atlantic TMD, the most likely location is near the shores of the middle part of Norway or the western part of the North Sea, flight of carrier-based aircraft through Scandinavia - launches over the northern Baltic-Finland, reach - the entire Kola Peninsula, the White Sea basin, Kaliningrad, Peter, Severodvinsk, Cherepovets, Pskov, then on the list ...
    All 6 main submarine basing points of the Russian Federation Navy are located 100-400 km away. from the Norwegian border and vulnerable to a preventive / first nuclear missile strike. Even in peacetime, all VMB-PB SFs are constantly monitored by satellites, each submarine exit or large surface ship is recorded, and a simultaneous exit to the sea (that is, they are not visible from the satellite ...) is at least 2-3 SSBN / SSBN / The nuclear submarine is already an announcement of an alarm at the control center of the situation of the US Navy. Immediately there is a take-off of anti-submarine aircraft from bases in Norway and Iceland, plus the notification of all surface ships and US / NATO submarines in the area. And in the threatened period, not to mention wartime, in addition to the listed measures, access to the ocean from the Kola and Motovsky bays via the Kildinsky reach will be controlled by at least 5-10 enemy nuclear submarines.
    So let’s imagine how our heroic submariners enter the Norwegian Sea, not to mention the North Atlantic. The sea is behind the enemy, the existing 5-6 ships of the 1st rank of the Northern Fleet will not do the weather, they cannot go further than the Norwegian waters without the risk of being sunk. There is no support and is not expected to support them from their ABs and their PAs; fighters will not go farther than 500 km from the coast, i.e. the sky is also beyond the enemy. The radius of control of the underwater / surface situation, even with the GPBA issued and at low speed, is 50-150 km, depending on hydrology. For "communication with the Center" - you need to swim up to 50-60m, release a buoy with an antenna for at least a few minutes to receive information, in the air - only someone else's "Orions" with "Poseidons" (2-3 each for at least each our boats), in addition to the RSL and MA, there are radar and RTR equipment, and at sea there are a lot of enemy submarines ... and you need to go at least 1000-1500 km to the launch line of the CR / RCC, and first detect AUG / KUG, determine , at least approximately, their composition, to calculate the firing data, and when the first rocket came out from under the water and the launch area was detected, then the chances would survive become minimal ... And we will also take into account that we will have SSBNs in the Northern Fleet in the next 2 years - as many as 3 combat ready, in 5 years, if the industry does not fail, there will be 5-7 of them (1-2 “Ash” after construction and 2 Antey ”from re-equipment, but 1-2 can again go to repair ...). And what are the chances of first reaching, then hitting, and also returning, maybe ...?
    What kind of struggle is there with the enemy’s shipping (you simply can’t get to the New York-Rotterdam shipping line), what is the mining of enemy ports and communications (here let Nikol Morskoy even have time to mine the approaches to their bases), and what sort of DRG landing on the Florida coast ...
    On the Pacific TMD - everything is many times worse ... There is only 1 real base for the nuclear submarines / SSBNs / SSFs of the Pacific Fleet - Rybachye-Vilyuchinsk, in Sovgavan - no infrastructure, from Vladivostok, if there is a war, no one will just leave, one Japanese fleet is enough, there even without the United States will do. In order to fight the forces of the USA and Japan in the Pacific Ocean, the PLARK from Rybachy must first be scoured out into the ocean, then along the Kuril Islands to the south to the launch line, and given the absence of our fleet there at all - the word "kamikaze" ceases to be Japanese ...
    Therefore, before projecting 955 “Zircons” and 50 “Caliber” along the embankment on Prospect 100B, followed by the rout from the 1st to the 7th US fleets, we need to take care at least to ensure that our boats can freely leave the bases and support their deployment in a threatened period ...
  24. 0
    April 3 2019 19: 25
    Yes, the article deals with many of the things that we don’t have. Even the Husky is presented as if she is already on the fleet. If yes, if the satellite Peony also circled like high above the ground.
  25. 0
    April 20 2019 15: 18
    The forecast is coming true: the Navy may receive two submarines of the new project "Borey-K"

    https://topwar.ru/157084-vmf-rf-mozhet-poluchit-dve-submariny-nositeli-krylatyh-raket-novogo-proekta.html
  26. 0
    9 August 2019 11: 56
    PRK "Omsk" returned to the base after repair and modernization - https://topwar.ru/161071-aprk-omsk-vernulsja-k-mestu-bazirovanija-posle-remonta-i-modernizacii.html
  27. 0
    6 August 2021 00: 14
    Quote: dgonni
    This is a development model with a displacement of only 145 tons! The working drone will have 1000+ tons and it will have no problems with seaworthiness!

    Like mattresses in front of the whole planet. We can do that too.