"The Da Vinci Code". About what should be the battle ship of the 2020 of the year

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The genius of the architect’s hand slid across the drawing, and the hull collapsed in two, as if another ship had emerged from under the bottom of the frigate. However, what is behind the ship sticks out from under the bottom, to the great curiosity of the readers, we will find out a little later.





The PPA class frigate is not the most usual design, but the perception of its innovations is somewhat smoothed due to the relatively low cost (compared to other innovative projects in the field of modern shipbuilding and legal proceedings).

You can see more through the glazed bridge than from the upper deck: virtual images are superimposed on the Mediterranean landscape. The technology of “Augmented Reality” (AR) has leaped from the screens of smartphones to the “smart” glasses of the bridge of a warship. When looking at the passing vessel on the glass, their parameters and the MMSI ID will be displayed. Clarifications will be given to the observed navigational signs, hydrological conditions, obstacle signaling and depth values. No more fuss and scattered posts. The number of personnel of the watch is halved.





Helmsmen and officers deserve the most complete picture of the environment. We should mention “increased situational awareness” here, but we will refrain from clever phrases, often replacing common sense. The Leonardo-Finmeccanica naval cockpit is really a step towards the fleet new era.

Among other unexpected decisions - during the creation of the frigate PPA, much less attention was paid to the stealth technology, which determined the look of European fleets over the past twenty years. As before, the superstructure extends “from side to side,” and its surfaces are made with regard to the radio reflection and the requirements for reducing observability. But no more bulwarks in the bow and middle part of the hull, giving the former ships a plump “box-like” look and feeling that they are larger than they actually are. Also, as the refusal of attempts to put together a hangar, ducts, bulwarks and a superstructure into a single cumbersome “pyramid”.

A part of the armament is installed directly on the deck, in launch canisters. The creators of the PPA made almost no attempt to improve the appearance, abandoning the idea of ​​hiding deck equipment under a decorative upper deck. All anchor drives, davits, winches, lifting and other equipment are displayed on display, as on ships of the mid-twentieth century.


The predecessor of the PPA is the frigate of Claas FREMM. In the middle part of the hull, behind the height of the bulwarks, the RCC launchers hid



Modernist frigate "Lafayette", which gave the appearance of a whole generation of eurofreates. On the right - what its real upper deck looks like, under a radio reflecting decorative canopy



45-meter bulwark in the bow of the frigate "Gorshkov", giving the ship a complete, smooth silhouette


Fincantieri experts questioned the benefits of large-scale measures to reduce visibility. Or just saved, limiting the necessary minimum? PPA class frigates are not at all similar to peace-time patrol ships: they are even more “zubasts” than their predecessors FREMM. And in terms of the composition of strike weapons, they promise to be among the strongest among modern frigates and destroyers.

The third feature is the power plant with multiple redundant drive. The scheme is not the simplest designation CODAGOL (Combined Diesel And Gas Or (diesel) -eLectric).

According to the calculations, one working diesel will provide the frigate with the ability to maneuver units at a speed of 10-18. When connecting a second diesel, the travel speed will exceed 20 knots. The next option is to turn off both diesel engines and start the gas turbine (28-29 knots.). The fourth option is the simultaneous connection of both DD and GTE, which provides a full turn of the 32 node (design value). The fifth option - in case of damage to diesel engines and the turbine (or the main gearbox), the frigate is able to continue driving on one or two propeller electric motors powered by main or emergency diesel generators. This mode is also considered as the main one when patrolling at low speeds (up to 7 nodes).

With the increase in speed, the rowing electric motors will be able to switch to the generator mode together or separately, increasing the energy capabilities of the frigate.



The Italian fleet is not aware of problems with the “Kolomna diesel engines”; however, all the equipment is of German production (MTU / MAN), with the exception of the licensed GTE LM2500, assembled by the Italian Avia.

Interestingly, many decades later, the sailors returned to the need for high speed for ships with rocket weapons. Instead of the familiar 24-28 nodes, the new frigate is developing the 32 node at full speed. And here - voila! - it is the turn for the bulba of a sharp, cutting form, which was mentioned at the beginning of the article.

Historically, the Italians relied on speed, which in reality did not give them anything, only upsetting the balance of other characteristics. On the other hand, the power and compactness of modern EI allows to reach 30 + knots. without noticeable effort and compromise in design.

The “cutting” bulb and the hull of unusual shape indicate that the “Fincantieri” seriously became interested in the idea of ​​cutting the waves on the move (instead of crossing over the wave due to their own buoyancy in most ships). This solution contributes to fuel efficiency and reduction in the pitching amplitude, which is not so important for sailors' convenience, as to improve the accuracy of radar chart control and partial removal of restrictions on the use of weapons in a storm. The main disadvantage, the strong flooding of the deck, for a modern ship does not matter.

Next we do not expect any surprises. All other elements of the frigate PPA will have a more traditional appearance, corresponding to other projects in recent years.

The “tower” of the superstructure optimized in form with the rejection of mechanically driven antenna devices. The main dual-band radar with eight active phased antennas (HEADLIGHTS) should provide all tasks for detecting, tracking targets and controlling missile and artillery weapons.

Creation on the basis of a single corpus of three modifications - from the simplest “patrol” PPA-LIGHT to the primary PPA-FULL. With the intention to replace with one, unified project, five previous types of warships of the Italian Navy.

Bet on guided weapons. From programmable anti-aircraft munitions to 76-mm machine guns and VN-VX-driven 127-mm projectiles, to long-range cruise missiles of several types. Declared the use of a pan-European naval missile Scalp-Naval and a TESEO-EVO rocket of its own design, for the destruction of sea and land targets.

* * *

The full designation of the project - Pattugliatori Polivalenti d'Altura. According to the dictionary "multipurpose deep-water watch". I believe that for foreign ships in the General Staff, they use simpler and more understandable symbols that correspond to the norms of the Russian language and give an idea of ​​their purpose (like the NATO classification for our weapons).

The PPA is a non-plastic model under glass from the 2019 Army and Fleet exhibition. The lead frigate of the Paolo Thaon di Revel series is scheduled for launching in May this year. Two more corps were laid last year. The planned composition of the series - 7 units. Amazing that news the creation of such powerful combat units is not covered in any way by specialized media. However, we have too much news about our own fleet re-equipment program with hydrographic boats and tugs.

In this case, we have a warship of the far sea zone with a length of 143 meters and a full displacement from 5830 to 6270 tons, depending on the modification.

The estimated number of crew for the modification of "Light" - 90 people. For the "full" modification - 120 people.

The main developer of the project is the shipbuilding giant Fincantieri (Trieste). All radio-electronic systems are developed by the Italian company Leonardo, one of the largest defense holdings in the world.

"The Da Vinci Code". About what should be the battle ship of the 2020 of the year


Armament:

- 16 vertical launchers for anti-aircraft missiles of the Aster family and SCALP-Naval long-range cruise missiles;

- 8 oblique PU for Otomat / Teseo Mk.2E anti-ship missiles (TESEO-EVO) with the ability to attack ground targets;

- Two X-NUMX and 76-caliber gun mounts, with guided missiles. According to the manufacturer, the range of fire with Vulcano ammunition is: up to 127 km (“budget”, uncontrolled), up to 60 km (with active IR guidance) and up to 80 km (with INS + GPS guidance at the target);

- for self-defense in the near zone, two 25 mm remote controlled installations are provided;

- anti-submarine weapons: self-guided torpedoes of caliber 533 and 324 mm (only for the "full" version) and 324 mm (2х3) for all other modifications of the frigate;

- the frigate is equipped with a flight deck (25x16 meters) and a hangar for two anti-submarine / multi-purpose helicopters; a transom stern provides a ramp for the 11-meter speed boat;

- in the middle of the hull there is an 20-ton crane and a place to put the target load. On the presented schemes: two semi-rigid boats or 15-meter amphibious boats or 8 standard containers. Also up to 5 containers can be installed in the free space below the flight deck. All - in accordance with the general trend for modern surface ships.



The key element of the weapon control system is the Kronos radar complex from Leonardo, which consists of a simplified version of four AFAR canals operating in the centimeter range. The “full” version frigates will be equipped with a dual-band version as part of 8 AFAR (four C-band and four StarFire antennas operating in the X range). The former use a range with 3,5-7,5 cm wavelengths, which contributes to a longer target detection range, and the latter uses a range with shorter wavelengths (2,5-3,75 cm), which provides better resolution when tracking small targets in the near zone.

In addition to the Kronos, the Leonardo SPS-732 general detection radar is used for covert surveillance, which prevents premature frigate detection. Its principle is based on the emission of pulses of different intensity in a wide range of frequencies that are indistinguishable from radio interference for the enemy's RTR facilities; The SPS-732 processor gradually accumulates data and, by probability theory, determines the position of the target.



Like most of the same age, PPA class frigates are equipped with a full-view infrared detection system in the near zone.

Four Leonardo development systems provide protection from underwater threats: ATAS towed active antenna with a submarine detection range up to 40 km; towed antenna "Black Snake" for the detection of torpedoes; anti-sabotage alarm system - to protect the frigate in the harbor from combat swimmers; and heat trace detection system. Everything looks great, except for one moment - the description is missing a subsonic sonar.

The rest of the project is beyond praise. Perhaps the best frigate among all similar projects of the beginning of the XXI century.

The most politically incorrect chapter

In the concept of the frigate PPA, as with all its predecessors, there is one strange and difficult to explain. This is not a constructive miscalculation, it is precisely the concept itself, the requirements of the customer.

The most advanced detection tools are combined with a meager anti-aircraft ammunition, in this case - 16 SAM of the Aster family. There are two types of rocket ammunition: “Aster-15”, due to the absence of the first stage, which have the best efficiency for intercepting in the near zone, and two-level “Aster-30” with 100 + km range, designed to combat carriers.

Total 16 starting cells, some of which are supposed to "give" for the placement of shock SC SCALP-Naval. In an era when the means of air attack are the main and, in fact, the only realistic threat to surface ships!

Before us is a superfrigate for 600 + million euros, which has everything except air defense systems. He is able to detect air targets in any quantity, but after a few volleys he will remain completely unarmed before the threat from the air.

He does not even have a closed-loop near-air defense system - an ultra-modern 76-mm machine gun with its own radar and programmable projectiles provides protection only at the rear corners.



It seems to the author that the situation has the following explanation. The fleet commanders and the European developers of naval armaments are confident that none of the potential adversaries is capable of carrying out a massive air attack on the connection of ships in the open sea (mobile target whose coordinates need constant updating). Raise drums and support groups into the air, catch up with the target, strictly maintain intervals and directions, calculate the launch point and carry out the anti-aircraft missile launch, while accidentally “not leaning out” over the horizon and not falling under anti-aircraft fire. For nothing that the frigate has just a dozen of missiles, he will not forgive such a mistake.

Practically no one in the world has neither technical means, nor experience, nor preparation for the implementation of such an air operation.

Therefore, the composition of the armament of the Euro-Frigates is designed only to counter the “pinpoint”, random attacks in the composition of a pair of planes and others.

Another explanation may lie in the low effectiveness of anti-aircraft fire. Much better chances against self-guided missiles are provided by jamming systems and EW facilities. By the way, the PPA class frigates are equipped with modern electronic warfare system ZEUS, capable of interfering with a wide range of frequencies. A dozen missiles on board eliminates the possibility of frigate bombing with conventional bombs.

And one more thing, causing the author a sense of pity for the modern fleet. So much effort, the best modern technology, and at the exit is a “container ship” on 8 containers with humanitarian aid. As if not a navy, but a fleet of the Ministry of Emergency Situations.



Yes, the probability of conflicts of low intensity is quite high. Yes, it's nice to have a multifunctional platform. But if you have already decided to build a ship for a billion, ready to go into a mortal combat, then you probably should admit that such a specific and expensive tool is not intended for humanitarian supplies. Just not intended, it can only bear death. And its design should be optimized for this task on 100%. Caesar - Caesar.

Instead of wasting domestic volumes and deck space to accommodate the “target load”, it may be worth considering how to increase the capabilities of the WARSHIP on which to kill, while not trying to die from the enemy’s response, at the expense of these reserves.

Finale

The situation in the field of naval weapons recalls a quote from Lewis Carroll: "You need to run as fast just to stay in place, but to get somewhere, you have to run twice as fast."

The program for the entry into service of the predecessors, the multi-purpose FREMM frigates, is still nearing completion (during the 2013-2018 period, the Italian Navy managed to join the 7 of the 10 planned ships). But “Fincantieri” is already working on the perspective of the next decades. Not only confining ourselves to “technical design,” but having laid down three ships, which, as of 2019, can be considered as representatives of the most modern existing project of a similar purpose.
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  1. +7
    26 January 2019 08: 08
    Before us is a super frigate for 600+ million euros, which has everything except air defense systems.

    Oleg, in Spain in May laid the first frigate F110. In total, they plan to build 5, the cost of the series ... drum roll ... 4,326 billion euros! This is almost 1 billion dollars per ship! Who was laughing at the price of LCS?
    Air Defense is 2 MK.41 modules for ESSM, the trend however!
    1. +4
      26 January 2019 09: 43
      Quote: Puncher
      Oleg, in Spain in May will lay the first frigate F110

      The project is not ready yet, the first bookmark is scheduled for 2020
      1. +3
        26 January 2019 10: 30
        The Da Vinci Code ... here's the soundtrack for an article about warships

        When Hans Zimmer is in the credits, you listen to movies and watch music
        1. +9
          26 January 2019 10: 40
          Oleg, with the return of you! Do not leave the resource. We are missing you!
        2. +1
          26 January 2019 11: 36



          A on the topic:
          Two towed antennas at the same time will always need to be output:

          One for detecting submarines and one for torpedoes.
          No combined antennas?
      2. -2
        26 January 2019 11: 43
        Quote: Santa Fe
        The project is not ready yet, the first bookmark is scheduled for 2020


        Good afternoon, dear Oleg hi Thank you for your work on the marine theme. I especially liked this

        "Creation on the basis of a single hull of three modifications - from the simplest" patrol "PPA-LIGHT to the first-rank PPA-FULL. With the intention of replacing five previous types of warships of the Italian Navy with one unified project at once."

        And the future lies behind these art systems, despite the talk of the high cost of ammunition for them.

        "- two gun mounts of 76 and 127 mm caliber, with guided projectiles included in the ammunition. The firing range of the Vulcano ammunition, according to the manufacturer, is: up to 60 km (" budget ", unguided), up to 80 km (with active IR guidance) and up to 100 km (with INS + GPS targeting "
        I have no doubt: they will lay it down and do it without too much hype.
      3. 0
        26 January 2019 11: 54
        Quote: Santa Fe
        The project is not ready yet, the first bookmark is scheduled for 2020

        Recently there was news about the bookmark in May of this year. Although maybe it's about cutting metal. But that is not the question. The trend of a mega-expensive frigate with weak air defense.
        1. +4
          26 January 2019 15: 22
          Quote: Puncher
          The trend of mega-expensive frigate with weak air defense.

          Oleg, I welcome the return to service! fellow
          On business.
          Before you build a ship, always determine its tasks and main threats. With tasks, apparently, everything is defined. But the main threats of NK - aviation and submarines - are somehow taken out of the brackets.
          1. 16 cells for missiles / anti-ship missiles (tactical, not KDB) seems to me not enough. Given that one VC is 2-x missile salvo. So this is a reflection of a single PKR attack! So what is next!?
          2. I think the disadvantage is that the ship does not have a subtle GUS. Typically a nasal bulb is used for instrument # 1. So it's just ... something! The speed is good. But when you are constrained in the maneuver due to the fact that the "ropes are hanging behind the stern" you will not gain much and you will not turn away from the anti-ship missiles!
          3. Eight containers for placing additional equipment - this is certainly great. But! how it integrates into the whole "ship complex", especially if frequency compatibility is required ...
          Therefore, my native doychery are closer to me with their thoughtful functionality and iron ordnung, rather than the frivolous Italo-French with their light-weight approach to problems.
          IMHO.
        2. +2
          26 January 2019 16: 01
          Quote: Puncher
          Recently there was news about the bookmark in May of this year. Although maybe it's about cutting metal

          How would I tell you ... Not about the bookmark, but about Launching the first corps in May of this year. They started cutting metal there in December 2016. On the slipways two more.
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          16 cells for missiles / anti-ship missiles (tactical, not CRBD) it seems to me not enough. While there is a 2 missile salvo along one CC

          Perhaps they mean pure self-defense and rely on Crotale NG, which can be stuck in 4, sort of.

          Or really RIM-162 ESSM to adjust Sylver UVP, it is high time.
        3. +1
          26 January 2019 16: 40
          Hmm, you wrote about the Spanish frigate, and I about the Italian. I apologize for the confusion.
    2. 0
      27 January 2019 12: 32
      Quote: Puncher
      Oleg, in Spain in May laid the first frigate F110. In total, they plan to build 5, the cost of the series ... drum roll ... 4,326 billion euros! This is almost 1 billion dollars per ship! Who was laughing at the price of LCS?
      Air Defense is 2 MK.41 modules for ESSM, the trend however!


      Quote: Santa Fe
      "The Da Vinci Code". About what should be the battle ship of the 2020 of the year


      And in my opinion, "new trends"They are far from always indicative, they are really the best examples in everything, and are really more functional ?! I mean that, in my subjective opinion, pr 22350 (like" Gorshkov "), at least in terms of the composition of its weapons, is composed just no less successfully Yes, if according to the capabilities of the radar station, then the military-industrial complex has where to direct its development efforts ...
      As for the rest, project 22350 is quite successful, and if it is possible to quickly and efficiently assemble PO55 gearboxes in the near future, then there are no obstacles at all for continuing the series of 12-15 more units, at two shipyards in parallel. So the price will fall and the fleet will be filled with "hard workers". And at the same time, in the EM / BOD class, the same Yantar could begin construction of 11560 (where one of the proposed project options had 24 VPUs for Onyx / Caliber, and 64 VPU cells for SAM) or 1155 in the form - http : //roe.ru/upload/resize_cache/iblock/221/415_500_1e3cd68611aa859771f9d287689e58ce0/22184ab6a043cd62deb46bac6fb27bb2.jpg.
      GEM similar to the Soviet BOD, - (M7A), where in the role of marching turbines M70 FRU, and in the role of afterburners M90 FR. As I understand it, the main problem there may also be the development and assembly of high-quality gearboxes for power plants ...
  2. +3
    26 January 2019 09: 27
    ATAS towed active antenna

    Smiled, still boo "nix!" named. laughing
    1. +5
      26 January 2019 09: 36
      Active Towed Array Sonar
    2. +1
      26 January 2019 11: 25
      Quote: K-50
      Smiled, still boo "nix!" named.


      Then - "Polundra!" hi
  3. 0
    26 January 2019 09: 33
    Something flashbacks from the First World War are back. Then, too, the countries of Europe created modern and EXPENSIVE dreadnoughts, and then they were simply toad strangled to send such expensive ships into battle! Are we getting back to this idea ???
    1. -15
      26 January 2019 10: 21
      The United States has recently put into operation another Nimitz, worth ... $ 17 billion. + aviation there is another 7 billion, probably. As a result, we have an expensive floating grave worth under $ 25 billion, which is destroyed by 1 or 2 "Daggers" for $ 1.5 million. And who needs it? Is it possible to fight with the banana republics
      1. +2
        26 January 2019 10: 30
        about "destroyed by Daggers" can be more detailed? So far, it is only known that in order to lift the Dagger into the air, you need to pull the MiG-35 out of the air defense and gut it thoroughly. Despite the fact that they are not produced, and soon the remaining resources will end. Moreover, to accompany all this in the air with something
        1. 0
          26 January 2019 10: 49
          Sorry, MiG 31 of course
        2. -11
          26 January 2019 10: 55
          What? No one needs to pull and gut. Under the Daggers, a long time ago they allocated the MiG-31Кwho have been flying for a year and experience this hypersonic novelty. Absolutely more than four hundred sorties with a dagger and practicing tactics and strikes. The resources there are in bulk, plus even more than 90pcs of new canned machines are in stock
          1. +1
            26 January 2019 11: 01
            Read the article for May 22, 2018, since you went to VO
            1. -3
              26 January 2019 12: 50
              You are completely off topic
              1. 0
                26 January 2019 13: 27
                Now the "Dagger" is also equipped with an MRBM with a range of 5500 km and target designation from the "Container" ZGRLS.
                1. -3
                  26 January 2019 15: 27
                  Mmm, that sounds delicious
              2. +5
                26 January 2019 16: 14
                Quote: Alexander Vitalievich
                You are completely off topic

                Surprising is the desire of people off topic to write comments.
                Quote: Alexander Vitalievich
                The United States recently commissioned another Nimitz, worth ... $ 17 billion. + aviation there is another 7 billion, probably.

                The last Nimitz - CVN-77 - was adopted by the fleet on January 10, 2009. It cost $ 6,2 billion.
                Quote: Alexander Vitalievich
                destroyed by 1 or 2 "Daggers" for $ 1.5 million

                There is no reliable information on the use of the X-47M2 against moving targets. Moreover, there is no reliable information about its cost, taking into account the cost of the entire program.
      2. +1
        26 January 2019 18: 57
        "The dagger can still target moving targets? It's like a cut-off Iskander, that is, a ballistic missile without an AGSN. How will it shoot at ships ??? There is information about launches and hits ????
        1. 0
          26 January 2019 19: 20
          One of the Iskander-M modifications is equipped with an optoelectronic seeker.

          As for the AGSN RS-26, there was no information yet.
        2. -1
          26 January 2019 19: 27
          Quote: Beregovyhok_1
          "Can the dagger still target moving targets?

          Naturally. Moreover, this is its main function - anti-ship (suddenly). A strike on ground targets is, of course, also possible, but on sea targets is a priority

          Quote: Beregovyhok_1
          It's like "Iskander" cut off

          This is not a "circumcised" Iskander, but a doped Iskander of the second generation. A rocket of the 1st generation flies a maximum of 7 Machs, a Dagger - 10-12. And, of course, adapted for placement on airplanes (cap)
          Quote: Beregovyhok_1
          There is information about starts and hits ????

          Only about the number of spent launches. The rest of the information is classified
          1. +3
            26 January 2019 19: 53
            It’s a secret ... Until I see with my eyes how the AGSN works in a plasma cloud at a speed of 10 max .... How a rocket performs an anti-aircraft maneuver .... Or at least no clear explanations as possible, I won’t believe it.
  4. -3
    26 January 2019 10: 18
    A frigate is precisely the class with which serious ships begin. If it’s difficult for us to rivet cruisers and destroyers at a fast pace, then frigates stuffed with weapons on the roof should be put into operation at least as quickly as possible
    1. +3
      26 January 2019 19: 59
      It is not difficult for us to rivet ships with a displacement of 7-10 kilotons. There are simply no engines under them. Project 22350 is criticized for its extreme parameters, a large amount of new products and a very high price. If you count it in terms of purchasing power parity, then it costs almost like "Orly Burke".
      1. -1
        26 January 2019 21: 36
        Quote: Beregovyhok_1
        Under them, there are simply no engines

        Already there, but really, it took a lot of time for their import substitution
        Quote: Beregovyhok_1
        Project 22350 criticized just for limit parameters, large volume of new products

        Is this a cause for criticism?

        Quote: Beregovyhok_1
        and a very high price. If calculated by purchasing power parity, then it costs almost like "Orly Burke"

        But here I almost agree - in general, for some reason, our ships do not come out much cheaper than those of the Americans. Unlike the rest of the military equipment. Although not as expensive as "Arleigh Burke", here you clearly went too far) Perhaps you did not count inflation
        1. +1
          26 January 2019 22: 07
          You are right, you didn't. In general, I have only approximate figures. The cost of "AFSS Gorshkov" according to various sources ranges from $ 400 to $ 500 million. We multiply by the Big Mac index (it's a shame, but there are no others), which in July 2018 was 2,79. We get the price of the head 22350 in 1, 2 - 1,5 billion dollars, which is comparable to the price of "Burk" in 1.8 - 2.0 billion.
          1. +1
            27 January 2019 02: 58
            Well, you compared - the lead and serial. 28 Lard Russian rubles price at the head. A lot, but if you look at the terms, how much he was tormented (and at that time people were paid money, despite the downtime, the delays of allies ...). The prices of our corvettes / frigates are high because there is no normal series of the same type, and as a result, the price of their development, production of equipment, staff training, etc. crap is hung on several pelvis, which, in the normal series, is spread over thin layers of all built ones.
            Now they have resumed financing of 2 Gorshkovs in completion, they have ordered 2 more and are preparing an option for another couple. These will already show the cost of the series. Especially if it continues.
            In general, for such as Gorshkov 28 lard - the price is normal. Nabiulina for 2 years with the transfer of US Fed bonds in euros, yuan and yen, 14 billion dollars. pros ... sorry, the loss caused. And nothing . Yes, for this amount, and at such a price, you can re-equip the entire fleet at the Gorshkovs ... And you say it’s expensive.
            1. +2
              27 January 2019 08: 30
              Quote: bayard

              Now they have resumed financing of 2 Gorshkovs in completion, they have ordered 2 more and are preparing an option for another couple. These will already show the cost of the series. Especially if it continues.

              I really hope that they have ordered more. There is no official information yet. The Commander in Chief thickly hinted that the next one would be on the amended project. And these are new OKRs, R&D, cuts, kickbacks, delayed construction and price increases. Our series will not be built. Favorable for the country, but not for the sawmills. Of course, I unfoundedly accuse the KB, Glavkomat and USC of corruption ... But there are three options for the lack of seriality: idiocy of the ones I listed (I doubt), deliberate wrecking (possibly), theft (this is already a compliment against the background of stupidity and sabotage).
              1. +1
                27 January 2019 14: 07
                Those two buildings that were frozen will be completed according to the previous project, and the newly ordered ones according to a slightly changed one - instead of 16 UVP, will be 24, with minimal changes in the case. This is not 22350M, it is rather 22350+.
                Therefore, the series as intended - in 8 pennants, will be built. Of which 4 pcs. with 16 UVP, and another 4 pcs. with 24 UVP.
                In the future, 22350M displacement from 6500 to 8000 tons should go into the series. It can already be expected to have from 48 to 64 air-raids with the installation of an armament section (air-raids) between the superstructure and the hangar ... maybe two helicopters. It will already be a full-fledged destroyer with a corps worked out at Gorshkov, weapon systems, avionics, and power plant (which will be enhanced by a more powerful diesel engine - 10 l / s instead of 000 l / s (for 6 tons), or will receive two turbines on the shaft (for the version of 000 tons)).
                Corruption is bad, but leapfrog and whistle-blowing with projects due to the lack of engines ... and the prolonged debugging of Poliment-Redoubt. They sculpted anything, just not to leave the fleet completely without ships.
                1. +2
                  27 January 2019 14: 19
                  This is still our Wishlist. Officially, even the project has not been done. And now I’m wanging about the Navy’s Wishlist: for such a displacement, they will want a surveillance radar that does not exist yet; more powerful hull, oversized S-400, longer range. And this is already increased energy consumption, that is, instead of diesel engines there will be a gas and gas turbine power plant. All this will require new R&D, many years of testing, and so on. Hope I'm wrong.
                  1. 0
                    27 January 2019 15: 32
                    They want to want something ...
                    For 8000 tons (and most likely such a displacement will be chosen) four turbines will be needed - just like our glorious BOD. And apparently this is for the better.
                    They want the soaked-up S-400 for a long time both for the modernized Eagles, and for the ephemeral Leaders. Let them put it - there will be unification. at 8000 tons. But I would first release a series of 6-8 pieces with Polement Redoubt, see what happened with the Eagles ... and make a decision.
                    Survey radar ... also look at the Eagles and that touched (if any) for the Leaders.
                    In any case, if successful with the power plant, the 22350M series will be large, the ship with a displacement will be decent. A good ship - a good HOOK. A kind of new Polynomial.
                    What’s up with the Eagles at the Eagles? Is there any backlog on them among the Leaders?
                    1. 0
                      27 January 2019 18: 59
                      It’s pointless to shove the C-400 onto a ship (before implementing external target designation) - the radio horizon is about 90 km. Redoubt (with export missiles) - that’s it.
                      1. 0
                        27 January 2019 19: 06
                        This is important for the Kyrgyz Republic and attacking fighters. For them and Polenta with his head. And what to do with high-altitude? With patrolmen, AWACS, tankers and other animals, to whom small heights are contraindicated. How to bring down Hokai on the radio horizon at a range of 300 - 350, or even 400 km?
  5. +5
    26 January 2019 10: 32
    I see that Europeans don’t take a steam bath at all, unlike our analysts from sofas. They stuck a cannon on the ship — here’s a patrolman, put a PU for anti-ship missiles and some RIMM — you’ve got a frigate. And here, if UKSK were not put on a boat on 48 cells and C-300, then it’s shame, not a ship.
    1. +4
      26 January 2019 10: 35
      Quote: Botanologist

      I see Europeans do not steal ubermashiny

      You look at the quality of the radar
      1. +2
        26 January 2019 15: 11
        Quote: Santa Fe
        look at the quality of the radar

        I saw the quality of the radar. But he wrote something about the other - as soon as we have a ship without a PLO, PMO, UKSK, PR and a pair of helicopters, the cries begin - it can’t shoot down satellites, there isn’t enough ammunition for a head-on attack on the AUG, 100 planes can’t be shot down and other things. The Europeans have a more pragmatic approach - the radar is good, so let them dump the enemy quickly.
        1. +3
          26 January 2019 18: 36
          They yell correctly: we have many tasks, but few ships. In which case, there is a pretty good chance that you will have to stand up for yourself alone. And the Italians have a whole NATO fleet, they will sail in, protect them, wipe out the nozzles. With such a radar (in the presence of Link16), he can simply fight "by subscription". Look, at the same Zumwalt, there is no normal radar, but the missiles are like a fool of candy wrappers. So the Italian will shit on our planes with Zumwalt missiles, in which case.
          1. +2
            26 January 2019 20: 50
            Quote: bk0010
            We have many tasks, but few ships. In which case, there is a good chance that you have to stand up for yourself alone.


            We have few ships (apart from outright betrayal and incompetence) because at first they make a "death star" out of any project, and then for 15 years they try to understand why half of the systems do not work, as the admirals dreamed. And in order to somehow not take the blame for wild fantasies with projects, they start to feverishly rivet MRKs - another MRK project - the third MRK project - patrolmen - just something else .... But after 15 years - rejoice! - we have in the ranks a single copy of Gorshkov, brought to mind. And there could be 15 "admirals" in the ranks and one brought up Gorshkov, if they were responsible for projects and their finalization with their heads.
            1. +1
              27 January 2019 00: 22
              Not a death star, but equipment that meets modern threats. We are lagging behind, we must catch up. What is beyond our reach? Radars and air defense systems? Do you really think they are redundant against the AUG air group? Anti-ship weapons, too, do not seem to be very powerful to overcome the Aegis. Maybe sonars and PLO equipment? Let me remind you that the enemy has only 32 Elks, 15 Virgins and somewhere else 3 Wolves are walking. The speeds are not prohibitive, there is no armor. I don't see what to save on. To put not everything - it means a ship without an IBM will be doomed, and it's hard to assemble a normal IBM: everyone is being repaired, the COG is low. Yes, and as 956 and 1155 have shown, you usually need both at once. No, you can, of course, put Hurricane instead of Redoubt, Mosquito instead of Yakhont, Frigate instead of Polyment, etc., it will come out cheaper, but the 21st century is already in the yard, their capabilities will no longer be enough.
              1. +1
                28 January 2019 14: 58
                Quote: bk0010
                Do you really think that they are redundant against the AUG Air Group?


                I do not think they are redundant. I'm not talking about that at all. They are trying to design a ship with us, as if it would go alone to the AUG. As the English admirals who understood in naval battles wrote, if you put 12 guns on a ten-gun ship, only eight can shoot. For me, 5 ships with average performance are all better than one outstanding. At least in terms of reliability and ability for a massive attack.

                Quote: bk0010
                Anti-ship tools, too, seem to be not too powerful for overcoming Aegis.

                Here is how? And what is the probability of Onyx intercepting the Aegis system in real combat conditions? Just not from an advertising booklet, but really?

                Quote: bk0010
                To put not everything - means a ship without KUG will be doomed

                And to put everything - means KUG we will never see because of the high cost, the construction time, disruption of orders, low reliability of diesel engines, the unavailability of Zircon and much more.

                Quote: bk0010
                Yes, and as 956 and 1155 have shown, they are usually needed both at once.

                Here I am about the same.
      2. +2
        26 January 2019 15: 49
        Electronics Italians well done. However, the air defense is not really impressive. Was it really possible to push even more cells at least on the FULL version ?! It seems to me that this is a tricky plan, then there will be another equipment ... In the light version it turns out such a half-frigate, a half-patroller to drive rafts with migrants and keep them in cells in place of containers)
        Of course, the question of such universality (neither here nor here) is controversial. There was a theme, like, that the Moormans were pushing in the government the construction of a new very powerful fleet with sauce of patrolmen and other container ships with red crosses. Maybe true)

        In general, they came up with containers well, they will carry calibers if that! wassat
        1. 0
          27 January 2019 03: 07
          It looks like a reserved place for them to strengthen / modernize (what is covered by containers). If there is a place under the deck, you can embed the UVP, if not, recess inclined launchers. A bad battery will work. And in peacetime - savings ... and containers with humanitarian aid.
      3. 0
        27 January 2019 14: 15
        only on two sides
  6. +1
    26 January 2019 10: 36
    "Caesar - Caesar" - this is only the Americans and partly the Chinese can afford. Moreover, the Americans can also afford to create new qualities of military (non-military, however, also) technology, thanks to the volume and level of fundamental research. GDP (gross product in the sense) rules. And the Europeans need to twitch - there is a big brother and a global player, you can play reasonable sufficiency in his shadow.
  7. -6
    26 January 2019 10: 41
    In short: any frigate and above in modern conditions - floating trash laughing

    Shipbuilders need to chase compact and multiply charged weapons systems such as MNTK and Waterfall, which shoot down attacking ammunition (gliding bombs, missiles and torpedoes), and not their large and low-charge carriers (aircraft and submarines), since the latter will obviously launch the first outside the distance of its detection.

    And we must forget how a terrible dream about the existence of artillery systems of caliber larger than 30 mm.
    1. +1
      26 January 2019 15: 39
      Quote: Operator
      And we must forget how a terrible dream about the existence of artillery systems of caliber larger than 30 mm.

      This is a misconception.
      1. The KNSs all walk in readiness. Artillery fire on the adversary is opened until they sink you.
      2. Art support for the landing of assault forces without barreled artillery (suppression of the newly discovered OS PDO) is simply impossible. Some turntables there can not cope: too much work, and it is dangerous for rotary wings.
      3. Won ama, on their Zumvalt tried to put large-caliber speakers with active-projectiles. Then on the railguns slipped off ... Truth and there zastorch. But, if it were not for the high cost, then all they would have would be the type of top.
      Equipping our 100-mm AU frigates (A-190) is quite reasonable and justified. It seems to be already and AK-192 (130 mm) worked. So, rather early write off artillery in the reserve. Do not repeat Nikita's mistakes!
      1. +1
        26 January 2019 18: 39
        Yes. Plus, I’m wanging the renaissance of universal guns: to destroy small drones with them. And then a rocket is expensive, and firearms do not have enough density for such a trifle.
      2. 0
        26 January 2019 19: 32
        Boa kaa

        Who will let the ship to the coast at a distance of firing of guns - they will sink with the help of anti-ship missiles still on the way.

        In the case of the domestic Navy, the enemy’s PDO OSs are eliminated in the bud not by multi-barreled artillery, but by an 1 (one) missile with a tactical nuclear charge.
        1. +1
          26 January 2019 20: 55
          Quote: Operator
          Who will let the ship to the coast at a distance of firing of guns - they will sink with the help of anti-ship missiles still on the way.


          And if the Kerch incident again? Or somewhere in Africa they will press ours to the shore?
          Afraid of the client - do not go to business.
          1. 0
            26 January 2019 22: 27
            In the Kerch Strait, the 30-mm gun was used exactly the same.

            Why discuss abstract Africa (who, where, whom will squeeze), better offer your version for our military contingent in Syria.
        2. +1
          27 January 2019 10: 08
          Quote: Operator
          Who will let the ship to the coast at a distance of firing of guns - they will sink with the help of anti-ship missiles still on the way.

          The condition for the landing operation (desOp) is the conquest of domination in the water area and the sky above the station (bridgehead) of the landing, the suppression of the enemy's PDO, the destruction of reserves in its nearest rear (tactical zone). All previously explored targets are destroyed in the course of a planned strike of weapons of destruction on PDO. Therefore, the ships of OKOP and aircraft of direct support are working on the newly identified targets. The ships, as a rule, on the areal (group), turntables and ShA - on dotted ... solitary targets.
          But you are right, there is a threat of defeat the enemy's assault force ships from the depth of the defense. There are our Bastiki for 10-12 km from the edge of the water can work on the adversary, since the range allows. Again, aviation ... But to support the amphibious assault forces in the battle for disembarking is still more handy with ship artillery. At least until recently it was like that.
          But.
    2. 0
      26 January 2019 16: 17
      Quote: Operator
      And we must forget how a terrible dream about the existence of artillery systems of caliber larger than 30 mm.

      It is rather surprising here that 155mm with army ammunition still could not be attached.
  8. 0
    26 January 2019 10: 51
    Something theorists for a long time can not decide what the ships of the future should be. Without practice, i.e. wars are incomprehensible
    1. 0
      28 January 2019 20: 28
      The military is always learning the past war.
  9. 072
    0
    26 January 2019 10: 57
    As for the lack of air defense missiles, in the Mediterranean they will act as a cover for coastal aviation
  10. 0
    26 January 2019 18: 01
    Pasta fun laughing -I liked it- "in case of damage to the diesel engines and the turbine (or the main gearbox), the frigate is able to continue to move on one or two propeller electric motors, driven by the main or emergency diesel generators" -and in the event of an emergency DG? laughing
  11. -2
    26 January 2019 19: 03
    Quote: Alexander Vitalyevich
    destroyed by 1 or 2 "Daggers" for $ 1.5 million.

    I would say that even daggers shoot waste. You can cover a pair of Alazani rockets.
    1. 0
      26 January 2019 20: 22
      Alazani ???
      Anti-hail rocket on an aircraft carrier?
      Even if you meant Alabuga, then you must first finish it and take it into service, and then the rocket should be able to overcome the deep air defense zone ...
      Or offer the aircraft carrier to throw snowballs?
      1. +1
        26 January 2019 20: 43
        Is it always necessary to put a smiley to emphasize sarcasm?
        1. 0
          27 January 2019 12: 20
          Here sometimes they write this ...
          So do not tune in to the subtlety of perception ...
  12. 0
    26 January 2019 19: 45
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    16 cells for missiles / anti-ship missiles (tactical, not CRBD) it seems to me not enough. While there is a 2 missile salvo along one CC

    Perhaps they mean pure self-defense and rely on Crotale NG, which can be stuck in 4, sort of.


    Exactly. And it’s absolutely justified - to work on this missile only on missiles, nowadays airplanes will not be substituted (they will be suitable at a low altitude in the dead zone of the radar), and missiles are closer than 30 km to intercept. They launch missiles from 35 km and until they detect them, until they let them in, 11 km of Krotal’s radius are already quite sufficient.
  13. 0
    26 January 2019 20: 31
    I think the Italians are building a frigate "for themselves," that is, near their shores, the air defense will be provided by aviation, and if it is necessary to move forward with partners, let the carrier aviation and Aegis provide air defense there.
  14. 0
    26 January 2019 20: 44
    Yes, quite a while ago Oleg did not please us with new opuses. Sometimes it was thought that he relocated to Tyrosine. The same alarmist.
    1. +2
      27 January 2019 12: 28
      Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs!
      alarmist

      This is when the occasion is insignificant,
      and when the navy is, to put it mildly, too bad, this is an assessment of the situation.
      If you do not agree, argue, and do not put a stigma.
  15. +1
    26 January 2019 23: 13
    "to catch up with the target, strictly maintain the intervals and directions, calculate the launch point and carry out an over-the-horizon launch of the anti-aircraft missile system, while accidentally" leaning out "from the horizon and not falling under anti-aircraft fire." /////
    -----
    An absolutely trivial task for a group of Hornets from any American aircraft carrier.
    They fulfill similar tasks in every exercise.
    1. 0
      27 January 2019 14: 13
      they can stick out, they have at least a minute to start. and even two.
  16. +1
    26 January 2019 23: 43
    Maybe I'm wrong recourse but we have much more placed on the corvettes
    various missile weapons than on this frigate ...
    1. 0
      27 January 2019 14: 12
      Israeli ships have a very specific range of tasks and areas of use
  17. 0
    27 January 2019 12: 29
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    point ... single targets

    After the use of tactical nuclear weapons, there will be no such landing on the bridgehead.
    1. 0
      27 January 2019 14: 00
      Tanks will remain and the like. Decent pillboxes too. They fooled with neutron weapons precisely because nuclear weapons against tanks are not very effective.
      1. 0
        27 January 2019 14: 26
        100-CT tactical thermonuclear charge detonated at an altitude of 500 meters above the ground - this is the neutron weapon.
  18. 0
    27 January 2019 14: 11
    a gross error initially, in my opinion.
    it is not a frigate and not a warship at all.
    this is a representative of a fairly new class of ships - a patrol ship of the far zone - provides patrol and peacekeeping, anti-terrorist and rescue missions far from its coast with the possibility of striking along the coast, landing a limited landing force and self-defense of the ship from ships, helicopters and non-mass aircraft attacks from semi-Papuan regimes ..
    An auxiliary role - in case of war, can be used for sentry service and PLO off its shores.
    The design is optimized for use in peacetime - the replacement of modules, the use of boats and more.
    Yes, absurdities are observed in him, both imaginary and real, but you need to understand that they are building it according to the Italian law on the fleet, so sailors squeeze and pull money according to those articles on which they can.
    For example, they were going to do augmented reality with the help of Google Glasses according to some sources, which is much more real than displaying on glass, which in nature does not exist yet — these are not pilots with a fixed position in the cockpit.
    The price should not be surprising either - it also includes a full ten-year maintenance and logistics of the ships.
    with a full radar there will be only two ships out of seven, I won’t be surprised if they are provided with mounted modules in the middle part with additional cells for the Aster. The rest of the radars are cut into one range - this makes it possible to save and provide flexibility in use.
    76 mm gun is used as air defense of the near and partially middle zone.
    For their purposes, quite normal ships.
    but not frigates.
    and of course, the care about the domestic producer is very visible - the maximum of Italian laughing
    1. +3
      27 January 2019 14: 23
      Isn't a frigate a "far-field combat patrol ship"? I thought so.
      And the corvette is a combat patrol ship of the near zone.
      And the destroyer is a warship guarding large squadron ships from aircraft, submarines and small enemy ships.
      A cruiser is a warship for independent tasks.
      Maybe the terminology has changed?
      1. +1
        27 January 2019 14: 43
        Of course not.
        The patrol ship of the far zone is a peacetime ship, although it can be used for certain tasks in wartime.
        differs in weaker armament, with a sufficiently large displacement and, as a rule, the ability to take on board except the crew, cargo and people, landing means, etc.
        for example, if there is a riot somewhere, and you urgently need to evacuate your people, that's just his task - to come up, land the marines to cover the transfer of people, if necessary, cover the marines with fire, provide protection from helicopters that may be heroically the insurgent people "or a small number of not the most modern aircraft.
        Often the armament for such ships is also mounted in the form of modules, as well as residential ones, but the Italian enthusiasts decided to get a series of 7 pieces for all occasions.
      2. +1
        27 January 2019 14: 46
        Thetis-class ocean patrol vessel

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thetis-class_ocean_patrol_vessel
        or for example.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordkapp-class_offshore_patrol_vessel
        frigates right patrol ships left
        although their functions partially overlap.
        additional weapons are often put in the form of modules.
        but the Italians have their own reasons, as long as the money is given, they need to be mastered, otherwise they may not give to the modules later winked
      3. 0
        27 January 2019 14: 57
        And the destroyer or FRIGATE is a warship guarding large squadron ships from aircraft, submarines and small enemy ships, that’s more correct.
        Perry, for example, was created specifically for these purposes.
        Warships are used, of course, for patrol functions in the far zone, but this is not optimal - a large crew that has nothing to do, and at the same time there are few rooms for other purposes, poor habitability
  19. 0
    27 January 2019 19: 09
    They say weak air defense with strong radars. What prevents to deliver several containers with missiles? In peacetime, in humanitarian aid containers or refugees to repatriate, and in the threatened period, a container with air defense missiles in stock. Long-range missiles in capital cells, and in medium and short-range containers. The arsenal will be impressive.
  20. 0
    28 January 2019 00: 17
    Gentlemen, or maybe still turn on the logic. Here it is, either we have a super frigate in front of us that has super air defense, or we are dealing with a frigate that has a completely ordinary air defense system in stock. From the information presented by the author, if we remove the praises of the Italian school of military shipbuilding, the second option seems preferable. Well-designed combat unit having a balanced composition of weapons.
    The author’s surprise at the large number of places for placing containers is also slightly puzzling. Perhaps I would also be surprised if I found out that Italy is building a series of frigates whose ice resistance is in accordance with the Arc.4 standard. But they do not. And not because they cannot, but because they have no problems with the pipe and America, but there are problems with illegal migration and North Africa.
    Perhaps someone will find the number of parking spaces for containers on the deck and underneath too large, so there from the Sahara at a time on a raft 400 or more souls are rafting in search of a better life under the sky of Naples. Or maybe someone will be embarrassed that a "super frigate" should do this at first glance. So I, gracious sirs, will remind you of how an atomic super cruiser, the cost of operating which during the day is equal to the budget of many African countries, chased the citizens of these very countries, which in their free time were engaged in piracy. And he coped with the task, the honor of Andrew's flag did not drop into the salty waters of the Indian Ocean.)
  21. 0
    28 January 2019 05: 15
    127 mm pleased ... just delicious it can fly normally) I wonder what ammunition.
    Would have thought ... a third of the black sea can be blocked! And about coastal complexes, too, speech.
    1. +1
      29 January 2019 00: 01
      I’m wondering, but we have the development of active-reactive and guided missiles for naval artillery ??? Wikipedia writes that it is planned for the A-192 ... The firing range will increase. Yes, and a cheaper shell than a rocket
  22. 0
    28 January 2019 23: 41
    Quote: garri-lin
    They say weak air defense with strong radars. What prevents to deliver several containers with missiles? In peacetime, in humanitarian aid containers or refugees to repatriate, and in the threatened period, a container with air defense missiles in stock. Long-range missiles in capital cells, and in medium and short-range containers. The arsenal will be impressive.

    So 4 moles of moles per cell are enough for his eyes, they now reach up to 15 km. A range of long-range missiles just in case. Nowadays, an attack on a ship can be either from a high altitude with long-range missiles, when the aircraft enters the radar coverage area, captures the target, fires and leaves. And no sight will help. A rocket in the near approach can be knocked down with krotal or interference. Or from a low altitude, approaching in the dead zone of radars up to 35 km to the ship. It is clear that a long-range missile is also no use.
  23. 0
    31 January 2019 13: 07
    Hee. On the survivability of the ship, mind you - military, not a word. So a toy for the realization of someone's ambitions.

    By the way, when the country is pinned down and it, the country, pays attention to its fleet, then ambitious warships are usually sent to hell (even Tirpitz was mostly laid up), and workhorses work, not so fast, armed, publicized, but more massive and effective in the military-economic plan. Up to barges with guns mounted on them. The Americans, for example, in the 2nd World War riveted aircraft carriers using the technology of cargo ships (50 aircraft carriers of the "Casablanca" type). Super expensive ships are indulging in the immoderate ambitions of sailors. The navy should be treated like a taxi driver's service, because V. the fleet is just a service for the delivery of weapons (see the work of the "Syrian Express"). The rest of the "romance" is at our expense, compare them with fishermen or transport workers - they are looking for efficiency, but what about these?
    About the increased speed. Speed, as the Russian knows, is needed when fishing .... Who catches in. fleet? I understand border guards or patrols. And in. the fleet seems to be supposed to fight, and not catch (if the enemy runs away, then the main task is solved, but if you run away yourself, then you need in FIG). In other words, there are only two tasks in which the ship’s increased speed is really necessary - to catch up and run away. To do this, build in. fleet or still for war? To solve all other problems, the main ships do not need increased speed. Even delivery should mainly be carried out economically / efficiently, otherwise, maybe you win the battle, but lose the war - there will not be enough funds for other battles.
  24. 0
    1 February 2019 07: 21
    The rest of the project is beyond praise. Perhaps the best frigate among all similar projects of the beginning of the XXI century

    But only in terms of size it is not frigates at all, but a very destroyer, and then completely different prices are used.
    About the minimum air defense, the author himself said.
  25. -1
    1 February 2019 15: 20
    Again the theme of invisibility! We already wrote that even for the Su-57, the invisibility factor is not the main thing! And here - about the ship the topic rises, what nonsense! On the contrary, let them see the ship and let them be afraid! More guns for him, torpedo tubes, missiles of various kinds, anti-aircraft guns. A helicopter is not necessary, there are no tasks for helicopters, and there are really no helicopters either, and those that are there are benefits from them like a goat - milk. Rocket silos instead of a helicopter pad. And let them be afraid of meeting such a ship, the strong one does not disguise himself, the strong one is afraid!