New missiles for "Anteyev"

157
Currently, the Russian Navy has eight nuclear submarines with cruise missiles project 949A "Antey". The main weapons These ships are anti-ship missiles P-700 "Granit" - unique products with high performance. However, a few years ago it was decided to re-equip "Anteyev". During the planned repairs and upgrades, such ships will receive new launchers for missiles of modern models. The result of this update, first of all, will be the expansion of the range of tasks and a significant increase in ammunition.

Recall, in the initial configuration, the armament complex of nuclear submarine cruisers of the 949A project includes four torpedo tubes with a caliber of 533 mm and two vehicles with a caliber of 650 mm. Along the sides of the hull are placed 24 missile launchers of the P-700 complex, each of which accommodates one missile. With the help of such weapons, the Antey type submarine is capable of attacking enemy surface ships at ranges up to 500-550 km. Defeat the target with a nuclear or conventional warhead. The "Granit" rocket has some special features that allow to increase the effectiveness of a massive strike on the enemy's ship group.




Nuclear submarine K-266 "Eagle" Pacific fleet


Rockets "Granit" are a very formidable weapon, but the existing weapon system may limit the capabilities of the submarines of the project 949А. Over the past decades, a number of promising missile systems have been created, which differ favorably from the P-700 in various characteristics as well as in operational features. One of the consequences of this was the decision to modernize and re-equip existing submarine cruisers.

At the end of 2011, the first press appeared in the national press about the future rearmament of the Anteyev. It was alleged that the Central Design Bureau of Marine Equipment "Rubin" developed a new project "949AM", which provides for the rejection of "Granites" in favor of other weapons. Subsequently, the Ministry of Defense disclosed the details of this program and clarified the expected results.

***

To date, the shipbuilding industry has received an order from the military department and began work on upgrading submarine missile carriers. Officials regularly mention this program and talk about its latest achievements. For example, last year the modernization of the Anteyev was mentioned several times, and a number of reports, in general, were grounds for optimism.

In the middle of February last year, a delegation of the Ministry of Defense headed by Deputy Minister Yury Borisov visited the Far Eastern enterprises of the defense complex. Among other things, the representatives of the Ministry of Defense visited the Far East Zvezda Plant, which is responsible for servicing the Pacific Photo submarines. According to well-known data, three submarines of the 949A Ave. - K-132 Irkutsk, K-186 Omsk and K-442 Chelyabinsk are undergoing repairs and upgrades at once.

During the events at the Zvezda DVZ, Deputy Minister Y. Borisov noted that the Pacific Fleet will be able to receive four modernized Antey with a new weapon by 2021 year. These submarines instead of the regular "Granites" will carry the new "Caliber", well-proven during the recent military operations. The deputy minister indicated that the mentioned deadlines for completion of the work look real. Moreover, at that time it was not excluded that the work on the Omsk boat could be completed before the end of 2018. Also at that time, the possibility of reloading "Stars" with new orders was considered.

A little later, in early March, an interview with the commander of the Pacific Fleet was published in the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper. Admiral Sergei Avakyants clarified the plans of the command regarding the modernization of missile cruisers. He recalled that plans to re-equip the Anteas did exist; as a result of such a program, the Granit missiles will give way to the modern Calibram. At the DVZZ Zvezda, according to the admiral, practical work is already underway to implement such plans. One of the updated submarines should be part of the forces of constant readiness after 2021 year.

12 December last year, the Red Star published a new interview with the commander of the Pacific Fleet. According to S. Avakyants, modernization and re-equipment of existing LSA Ave 949А is under way with the use of precision weapons. In this case, the admiral did not specify the current stage of work or the timing of their completion.


K-186 "Omsk" before arrival for repair


Thus, in recent months, the command of the Navy and the leaders of the Ministry of Defense have disclosed some of the information on current plans, as well as supplemented or corrected the previously announced information. From last year's statements, it follows that the modernization of nuclear submarines with cruise missiles of the 949A project has already started. The first submarine with new weapons will have to return to the fleet no earlier than 2021 of the year. Earlier it was claimed that the modernization of all existing Anteyev will continue until the mid-twenties.

***

According to known data, of the eight Antey-type submarines available in the Navy, only five are currently in service. Three more ships are under repair. "Irkutsk", "Omsk" and "Chelyabinsk" are on the stocks of the factory "Zvezda" and receive the required equipment. The submarine "Omsk" should return from repair in the near future; work on other submarines will end later.

While three “Antheus” of the Pacific Fleet are under repair, two similar submarines continue to serve. These are K-150 "Tomsk" and K-456 "Tver". In the medium term, these submarines will also have to go to the ZVEZD DVZ for the passage of the next scheduled repair with modernization, providing for the replacement of one or another equipment, as well as weapons.

The three remaining submarines pr. 949A "Antey" serve as part of the Northern Fleet. These are the ships K-119 "Voronezh", K-266 "Eagle" and K-410 "Smolensk". In the recent past, from 2011 to 2017, these ships underwent a scheduled repair at the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center, which allowed them to continue their service. In the distant future, the submarines of the Northern Fleet will have to go back to the "Star". It is this company that will have to upgrade them on the 949AM project and install new weapons.

The result of the proposed program will be the modernization of all existing submarines of the 949A Ave. Eight repaired and upgraded submarine cruisers will continue their service in the North and the Pacific, but at the same time they will have some new opportunities. This will ensure the extension of the service life and the expansion of the range of tasks to be solved.

***

The 949AM project is based on a few basic ideas. First of all, this is the desire of the defense department to extend the service life of existing third-generation submarines due to repair and deep modernization. Also, the project is based on the proposal to replace the standard weapons with new ones, which allows to obtain the characteristic advantages and previously lacking opportunities.

The 949AM project proposes the replacement of existing P-700 “Granit” anti-ship missiles with modern products of the Caliber family. Also earlier it was reported that along with them the cruisers will be able to use the Onyx anti-ship missiles. In this case, the upgraded submarine gets ample opportunities in the field of military use of weapons. Depending on the task, the crew will be able to use anti-ship or anti-submarine missile weapons, as well as water-to-ground cruise missiles. Thus, the specialized "ship hunter" turns into a universal shock tool.

One of the main features of the 949AM project is a method of restructuring an armament complex. The TsBB MT Rubin refused to completely replace the standard launchers for the Granit products. The upgraded submarine retains their hulls, inside of which new units should be mounted. Each of the 24 launchers under the P-700 must accommodate a special three-cell module for transport-launch containers of modern missiles. Each cell will be able to take onyx or caliber missiles. In parallel, it is planned to carry out an update of the onboard instruments of the submarine, which are responsible for the preparation and control of shooting.


K-150 "Tomsk"


The main advantage of the nuclear submarine pr. 949AM over the base "Antey" is directly related to the design of new launchers. The total ammunition upgraded submarine includes 72 missiles. At the same time there is the possibility of combining the required missiles in the right proportions. Depending on the upcoming combat mission, a greater number of anti-ship missiles can be loaded onto the submarine, or products can be given priority to attack ground targets.

The 949AM project boats should use Onyx missile as anti-ship armament. This product differs from the "Granite" in smaller dimensions and weight, and also carries a less heavy warhead and cannot be equipped with a special warhead. At the same time, the newer Onyx is made on a modern element base and has the advantages of both operational and combat nature. The maximum flight range brought to 550-600 km - a little more than the "Granite".

The most important feature of the Onyx missile is its compatibility with other modern weapons offered for newly built and modernized submarines. It can be used with the same launchers as the Caliber missiles, including a wide range of products for various purposes.

In the recent past, the possibility of arming the modernized Anteyev with fundamentally new missiles appeared at the level of rumors. According to various reports and estimates, the promising hypersonic anti-ship Zircon missiles could be included in the 949AM armament complex. Nevertheless, official reports on the use of such weapons - unlike the “Caliber” - have not yet been received. As a consequence, it is still not entirely clear whether the upgraded cruisers will carry a hypersonic weapon.

***

According to the latest reports of officials, the work on the modernization of nuclear submarine missile cruisers of the 949A “Antey” project in accordance with the new 949AM project has already started and in the foreseeable future should lead to the desired results. In 2021, or a little later, the transfer of the first modernized submarine from the Pacific Fleet is expected. By 2025, several other ships will follow. Earlier it was reported that all eight "Anteyev" currently in service will receive new weapons.

Not so long ago, the work launched to modernize existing nuclear submarines of 949 Ave showed that the development of submarine forces with an increase in their potential is possible not only through the construction of completely new ships. Existing submarines with updated onboard equipment and modern weapons are also able to make the most serious contribution both to the combat capability of the submarine group and to the potential of the navy as a whole.

On the materials of the sites:
http://mil.ru/
http://redstar.ru/
https://tass.ru/
https://iz.ru/
https://ria.ru/
https://flotprom.ru/
157 comments
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  1. +5
    27 January 2019 06: 42
    In short, the work is in full swing, the results are not coming soon
    1. +11
      27 January 2019 11: 27
      Irkutsk will not be returned to operation from the APRK of the 949 project at the earliest of the 2021 year. APRK in Big Stone since 2001 year, repair began in 2014 year. Either there was no money, then a free slipway, and modernization was already needed there ... Alas, we always managed to build ships better than to repair them later.
      1. +23
        27 January 2019 16: 44
        Irkutsk began a hundred years in the afternoon and have already rescheduled 4 or how many dates are there when it was supposed to be delivered. It's like with the SU-57, even the pictures were, you can do the same here, it will even be worse. And they will introduce it in 2021 or 2022. The second Chelyabinsk in 2022 or later, until 2024. This is all if once again they do not transfer. Others did not even start.
        Omsk in general VTG passes, but not modernization !!!

        Ryabov already took out with his towels the text 80% repeating themselves in other words, 3 times in the text. Ugh.
        Return the cons for articles!
    2. 0
      28 January 2019 07: 26
      Where does such pessimism come from? The bottom line is that if they climb on us, then pi ... q USA is definitely, well, Europe is for the company. Further all relationships are business.
  2. -4
    27 January 2019 07: 02
    The total ammunition of the upgraded submarine includes 72 missiles.

    Yeah ! If you crave, then surely the whole world is in ruins! But then .....
    1. +8
      27 January 2019 08: 08
      + more ammunition in the torpedo compartment: 4-8 PLUR: RPK-7 Wind under 650 mm TA, RPK-6M Waterfall under 533 mm TA, as well as under 533 mm TA, in addition to torpedoes, you can include in the ammunition SLCM, PLUR, RCC family "Caliber"
      1. +2
        27 January 2019 11: 36
        In short - 28 torpedoes and missiles in the ammunition of torpedo tubes.
        1. -4
          1 February 2019 07: 55
          There will be 72 pk RK Caliber for launches, including hypersonic cr missiles with a range of 5000 km!
    2. 0
      27 January 2019 11: 40
      Well no. Not to dust. This is not very big missiles. Even with special warheads and that, only big damage.
      1. +1
        11 March 2019 15: 44
        Quote: 1810BM86
        Well no. Not to dust. This is not very big missiles. Even with special warheads and that, only big damage.

        Since the function of these nuclear submarines is the fight against aircraft carrier groups (oddly enough, some commentators have forgotten about this), it is obvious that in order to leave their focus, it is necessary to modernize and leave the Granites (increase the range, replace the element base), according to the mass-technical characteristics of the data there are no competitors, but exchanging them for Onyx is at least not advisable, at most criminal!
    3. +5
      27 January 2019 12: 01
      Quote: Theodore
      Yeah ! If you crave, then surely the whole world is in ruins! But then .....

      The power, of course, is serious. But to "dust" is far away. For example, on "Ticonderoga" about the same - and nothing, they don't talk about dust. Granite was a heavy anti-ship missile and it was very problematic to shoot it down, given the fact that there was nothing significant against them on the Amer ships. Imagine, an iron log with a thickness of two girths flies to the ship at a speed of Mach 2,5. Try to stop him with some kind of "phalanx". Granite doesn't even need a charge. Its kinetic energy is enough to break Arlie Burke in half like hello. To destroy a destroyer "Onyx" needs 2-3 missiles. moreover, there is no nuclear charge on them. So - parity. Of course, a new element base and all that is a plus. Besides, Granitt had a serious drawback - practically no target designation.
      1. +6
        27 January 2019 12: 42
        Quote: Gritsa
        Imagine flying an iron log in a two-girth thickness at a speed of 2,5 Mach.

        And missiles go astray, what's so complicated?
        Quote: Gritsa
        Try to stop him with some kind of "phalanxes"

        The interference will be delivered and fly away nowhere.
        I remind you. In all cases of using electronic warfare systems, anti-ship missiles with radar seekers flew into milk.
      2. +5
        27 January 2019 13: 36
        besides that, Granite had a serious drawback - almost no target designation

        And onyx targeting is not required?
        So the problem is common.
        And the effectiveness of the missiles is determined not only by the tonnage of the warheads, but primarily by the likelihood of destruction in the conditions of active use of EW and missile defense.
        1. +6
          27 January 2019 21: 29
          Quote: VSrostagro
          And onyx targeting is not required?

          Their development was immediately based on the principle of "fire and forget!"
          Quote: VSrostagro
          And the effectiveness of the missiles is determined not only by the tonnage of the warheads, but primarily by the likelihood of destruction in the conditions of active use of EW and missile defense.

          1. Onyx carries 200 kg BB. Tactical YaBP weighs 145 kg. So, no problem!
          2. Onyx is made using "stealth" technology, it goes after the target is captured (from 45-40 km) at 10-15 m from the water at a speed of Mach 2,5 ... Our people believe that only SM-6 can stop, but they have There are still few ams, and mainly for missile defense sea areas
          3. The manufacturer assures that Onyx has an all-weather monopulse active-passive RLGSN, with frequency hopping. Therefore:
          Interference immunity of the GOS by the developer is claimed as high, including from active diverting noise, dipole clouds, etc.

          Let's hope that this is the case in reality.
          1. +3
            27 January 2019 22: 11
            To "shoot - forget" you need to know the parameters of the target (ie target designation), otherwise "into the milk".
            And about everything else I wrote "probability of defeat".
            1. 0
              29 January 2019 19: 48
              Quote: VSrostagro
              To "shoot - forget" you need to know the parameters of the target (ie target designation), otherwise "into the milk".

              The thing is that anti-ship missiles are fired in the area of ​​the likely target location (OVTs). It is an ellipse with a chord of about 100 km. Knowing the approximate V, K (or the side of the target movement), the data aging time, the source of the AIR, you can easily calculate the aiming point. Further, the GOS selects an error up to 50 km ... It's simple: "fire and forget!" bully
      3. -2
        1 February 2019 07: 56
        Onyx and caliber rockets have nuclear charges!
    4. 0
      28 January 2019 04: 35
      Craving if they get to the enemy. I heard that the 949s are very noisy, how about this?
    5. 0
      28 January 2019 14: 18
      More soon. "; PU Granita" according to undercover "data can accommodate either 3 missile launchers" Onyx "or 4 missile launchers of the" Caliber "family. Although it may not bother, they will make a simplified version of 3 PU Onyx / Caliber instead of one missile launcher" Granite ". Antaeus has 6TA more of them 4 caliber 533 mm and two 650 mm And racks for 28 torpedoes / missiles And since the ships are outdated, in terms of noise characteristics, naturally no one will let them into the World Ocean for slaughter .... he will be able to produce a thervod (of the Sea of ​​Japan and the Sea of ​​Okhotsk) under a hundred SLCMs 3M14. Such is the domestic response to Michigan with 154 Tomahawk missile launchers. Caliber "... Probably, too, you can get a hundred KR 667M955. So, at least, you can quickly saturate our two ocean fleets.
      1. +1
        30 January 2019 00: 02
        Already decided on 3 containers in the mine.
        And so that the caliber does not dangle "like a pencil in a glass" they will make Caliber-M
        and either fly away, or with enhanced warhead.
        1. -1
          1 February 2019 07: 58
          nothing will hang out, three glasses of PK Caliber will be inserted into a glass of Pu granite.
  3. +5
    27 January 2019 07: 58
    What about target designation, experts?
    1. -1
      27 January 2019 08: 19
      CU is not important, in a threatened period, with the containment of the same Japan. Antey can shuffle in the Kuril ridge and "stupidly" wait for the Japanese KUG (10) consisting of: 2 helicopter carriers, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates - giving them from a distance of 100 km. - 6 Onyx anti-ship missiles, and 6 Su-2 bombers also from Matua Island, will just highlight the KUG and launch 34 Kh-4AD anti-radar missiles.
      * If you look specifically at the situation, then a third-party control center is not particularly necessary. 10 Japanese ships can be destroyed using just 25% RCC Granite Ave. 949A
      1. 0
        27 January 2019 09: 26
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        10 Japanese ships can be destroyed using only 25% of anti-ship missiles Granite pr. 949A

        With a special warhead, maybe less. Yes, just do not destroy it, but rather put it out of action.
      2. +15
        27 January 2019 10: 29
        while holding back the same Japan

        Cool from the couch, sipping beer ... I agree. Mr. Rozhdestvensky was not a couch admiral, and even Thomas Hart is difficult to attribute to idiots, but the Japans, both here and there, fought back ... And until 1943, the Yankees were driving around the entire Pacific Ocean.
        PS: But we have a little 35 year old Antey nuclear submarines, and we
        using only 25% RCC Granite

        quickly annihilate a third of the Japanese fleet. Like two fingers on the asphalt ..
        1. -3
          27 January 2019 21: 56
          To anihilate quickly, you need two - three landmines from the Pacific side.
          And the memory of samurai is washed away
          A wave of heavy sea ...
          1. +2
            27 January 2019 23: 29
            And the memory of samurai is washed away
            A wave of heavy sea ...

            Did Uncle Sakharov tell you that he couldn’t deal with his wife? Did he test his theory? Well, at least in the bath? Why doesn't computer simulations show any such tsunami? Probably fools are sitting at the keyboard.
            PS: But I liked the fairy tale about a dozen and a half Granites and TsU out of nowhere more than with Neptune and the tsunami ..
            1. +2
              27 January 2019 23: 44
              Fukushima told me about this.
              And the gloomy Poseidon guarantees.

              A number of marine research institutes in the Union worked on the generation of megatsunami. Their calculations guarantee a wave of several hundred meters. And if you disperse the underwater canyon, then up to 1100 m.
              But the opinion of Soviet academics for you, as I understand it, is not credibility?
              I am not bloodthirsty for the Japanese, but it will be difficult for us to fight in a convention in the Far East.
              Why lose your people, ships, cities and infrastructure, if you can lose the Japanese.
              1. +1
                28 January 2019 00: 47
                A number of marine research institutes in the Union worked on the generation of megatsunami. Their calculations guarantee a wave of several hundred meters

                Well, they raised this topic on VO, and more than once. And about Poseidon, too ... Well, why push the water in the mortar? And about the seismic weapons, and about the compositions with soap ...
                PS: No, I don’t believe in the tsunami ... There are a few megatons there. Earthquake (underwater) of 8-9 points according to Richter, this is not 2-3 MTh of a vigorous explosion. And there are no 1100 meters ..
                1. 0
                  28 January 2019 01: 05
                  Power needed 100 - 150 MT.
                  Depending on the conditions of the seabed, the wave can be 200, 300 and even 400 meters.
                  And in order to 1100 m. - it is necessary to blow up in the canyon, then the wave does not scatter, but goes through the canyon like a waveguide only gaining strength. The US coast has places with such conditions.

                  And it was not Sakharov who told me this, but Academician Ostetsov, a former adviser to President Putin on nuclear energy issues.
                  1. +4
                    28 January 2019 08: 25
                    Both you and your opponent are free enough to deal with this theory. Therefore, it is difficult for you to come to a common denominator. Both of you should remember the following:
                    1. Unfortunately for this type of weapon, the main populated, industrial and military targets are not in the place of ideal conditions for a wave to grow to km. Yes, in North America there are such canyons. And even with traces of the ancient tsunami at around 1 km in height. But what is there to drown? Any forester in the shed? This is unlikely to bring the country to its knees. Anyway.
                    Really catch a wave in, say, a hundred meters. And that ... A lot in general. Lots of. Destruction and sacrifice, especially in Japan, will be colossal. But!
                    If such gifts are accepted for combat duty, the enemy will definitely begin to relocate and concentrate resources important for the army in higher places where the wave will not reach. At least for the sake of returning good after the flood.
                    2. Tsunamis travel very long distances. And if in the case of the United States, for us it’s all the same, because the wave that has reached the eastern coast of America will already lose strength, then in the case of Japan, a residual surge of ten to two meters can threaten not only the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin, but also Vladivostok, Omsomolsk-on-Amur, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. And, horror, to China. The fact that Korea will be washed off with such a multiple explosion along the coast of Japan is somehow violet. That is a non-illusory threat for China, a strategic partner, or even an ally with nuclear weapons, which makes it feel somewhat uncomfortable. China will only be in favor if one hundred million Japanese and Koreans drown. But it can be offended if another million drown in the appendage, so 50 or more Chinese.
                    3. About the comparison of the energy of an underwater earthquake and the destruction of nuclear weapons. The conditions are different. Yes, during an earthquake, the total energy is orders of magnitude higher than undermining even 100 MT. But it is spread even not over the area, but over the enormous volume of the earth's crust. The bias amplitude rarely exceeds meters. The tsunami catches up due to the huge area of ​​the epicenter. Despite the fact that its height is felt and increases only in shallow water. In addition, the epicenter is not always located close to places with ideal conditions for a sharp increase in the wave.
                    Undermining the same "Poseidons" will be done just in the most favorable places and at a short distance from the targets. To reduce the dissipation factors of wave energy. And the detonation will take place in a highly mobile environment - water. And not in the earth's crust. Rather, even exactly at the bottom. To send a high-speed seismic wave along the bottom and after the second in the water in the form of a tsunami.
                    1. 0
                      28 January 2019 09: 19
                      Great review of the topic. But we are not at the General Staff making up the plan of the operation, so an easy pick on the topic that if it comes to war, it is better to gasp right away - not to wave a conventional knife.

                      The world is confidently going crazy and from the headache of "arbiters of destinies" the best remedy is the guillotine. This is also a very good tool for their accomplices.
                      Thank God we have such a medicine, and Russia is very responsive to the grief of another country.
                      Therefore, every Japanese has a kokoshnik, and do not buzz!
                      1. +3
                        28 January 2019 09: 49
                        hi
                        Therefore, every Japanese has a kokoshnik, and do not buzz!
                        A correctly calculated blow to the kokoshnik instantly opens your eyes to the problem by 300-400% and transfers any mentality to the category of Europeans. Regardless of whether the initial view of things is a racial sign or just a sly squint.
                        laughing
                        It also contributes to the treatment of hoarseness and tongue-tied tongue.
                        True, the effect is not yet long-lasting. In some 50-70 years, there may be relapses of the previous understanding of the world.
    2. -5
      27 January 2019 11: 23
      Quote: andy 110
      What about target designation, experts?

      ===============
      And WHAT target designation do you need, "expert" ??? Or do you think that until now, missiles with a range of several hundred kilometers were designed to "fire going nowhere"??? Learn the" materiel "!!!
      1. +10
        27 January 2019 12: 23
        The orbital group MKRTs "Legenda" was launched from orbit. It was replaced by "Liana", which has as many as 4 satellites. What is their coverage area? In what orbit are they, geostationary, or fly around the ball? Did Granites and Onyxes fire at the Liana's control center, at a distance of at least 300-400 km? I honestly try to find this information, but I only hear: "We have such devices! But we will not tell you about them ...".
        1. 0
          27 January 2019 14: 15
          Quote: Beregovyhok_1
          Have Granites and Onyxes fired at the Liana's control center, at a distance of at least 300-400 km?

          =========
          Or maybe they were carried out ?? Who can tell you so easily as "in the spirit" ??? And then why did you decide that "Liana" is the ONLY source of external target designation ??? And what - Long-Range Aviation no longer flies ??? Ships and submarines do not go out to sea ??? Russian merchant ships do not go by sea ??? Meanwhile, all the received data is collected in a single tracking center. This does not mean that they know ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING there, and they cannot "screw up" anything !!! They can! and precedents - WERE! But there were other precedents when, despite all efforts, the AUG maneuvers of "sworn friends" were closely monitored ....
          Quote: Beregovyhok_1
          I'm honestly trying to find this information, but I hear only: "We have such devices! But we will not tell you about them ...".

          Well, this is already completely ridiculous !!! And in response, you have never heard: "This is the diocese of Naval Intelligence! And we also have counterintelligence, which is especially "curious" interested in !!! "Circus, and more!
          1. +7
            27 January 2019 14: 33
            I do not agree with you. Everything that works, our military very quickly show, brag about, regularly cover the test in the media. And everything that doesn’t quite work is sooo secret !!! About aviation as a control center - perhaps, although I have not heard about the target designation function of the A-50. A-100 - possible. But who will let him go to the AUG for 600 km?
            1. +5
              27 January 2019 15: 04
              400 more precisely. radio horizon at an altitude of 10 m.
              the chances are zero.
              1. +2
                27 January 2019 20: 48
                About over-the-horizon radars have not heard?
                About passive radar type Chain / Vega / Valery no?
                Within 3-4 thousand km from our shores there is no urgent need for a space command center. It will work for itself on the central control from ZGRLS
                1. +4
                  27 January 2019 21: 02
                  I heard.
                  forget it.
                  you have a vague idea of ​​the capabilities and functions of over-the-horizon radars.
                  1. +1
                    27 January 2019 21: 11
                    What are you saying!? Those. You, the clairvoyant, perfectly see and say that the AUG order will not be detected by ZGRLS with sufficient accuracy for the control center? And when you try to put them obstructive interference, passive radar will not determine the coordinates of the source with an accuracy of hundreds of meters?
                    Well, argue ...
                    1. +5
                      28 January 2019 00: 04
                      will not.
                      ZGRLS surface waves have a range of about 400 km, to detect AUGs are meaningless, long before that the Hornets will be bombed. They have their own goals and objectives - to monitor the economic zone, for example. Somehow in the Caspian, they held a show with exercises from the ZGRLS. All you need to choose a moment of good passage.
                      ZRLS of a spatial wave have a low probability of detecting small slow targets, since the Doppler effect is used to filter reflection from the sea surface, they give a large percentage of errors in the classification of targets, a large percentage of erroneous targets, have very low noise immunity, resolution, their work depends on the state the ionosphere and a whole bunch of nuances. I'm not talking about the fact that the aircraft carrier is going to be identified there or the yacht pulls an armful of reflectors in tow.
                      To use them for TsU is like shooting ammunition in the wind.
                      their scope is early warning of a possible mass missile attack, reconnaissance in peacetime by statistical methods.
                      in short, forget it.
              2. 0
                27 January 2019 22: 08
                There is still such a modest thing as drones and electronic intelligence. No ship can do without the operation of radars, navigation devices, radio exchanges ... This is direction finding in the passive mode and the triangulation method can give target designation. The signature of warships is very characteristic.
                And you can just crush the JP-ES and they will immediately begin to beat each other out of chagrin and beat against the rocks. There is positive experience in such a humane affair.
                1. +3
                  28 January 2019 00: 07
                  it seems so to you.
                  and an aircraft carrier with an escort can easily go in radio silence or directional antennas, the operation of the navigation radar is limited to a radio horizon of 30-40 kilometers.
                  and from above it flies in the Hokai or Growler radio intelligence mode.
                  forget, in short.
                  1. -1
                    28 January 2019 00: 34
                    If my drone rises 10 meters, then my radio horizon will be 000 km. And the signal from the navigation radar is much more powerful than even the most powerful communication radio transmitter.
                    And if my, say, "Orlan", on its thin wings flies up to the distance of optical visibility? Its speed and signal level can be taken for a bird. If my "Orlan" heroically dies passing the coordinates of the KUG or AUG - it's not a big deal, we will remember it after the defeat of the enemy group.
                    Now "Eagles" are put on 2 pieces even on MRK Buyan \ Karakurt.
                    1. +4
                      28 January 2019 00: 57
                      will be. If you have a radar on a drone like some AWAKS.
                      Only a drone by its radiation will determine any Hawkeye or Growler long before that.
                      And you also need to know where to fly.
                      and one more thing.
                      Orlan-10
                      Max. range of the complex - up to 120 km from the ground control station (up to 600 km in stand-alone mode) [9]
                      no, well, for 120 km you will understand that there is an aircraft carrier; at that time, American marinas will capture the shore 300-400 km in depth already ......
                      1. -1
                        28 January 2019 13: 36
                        "American marinas at that time will capture the coast of 300-400 km in depth already ......"
                        Famously!!! Well then, our Alens riding on the Vanguards will capture a couple of thousand kilometers in depth already ...... USA fellow laughing
                      2. +1
                        28 January 2019 21: 11
                        maybe you should read the whole thread, and not snatch a piece from the post? hi
                      3. -1
                        29 January 2019 00: 10
                        I carefully read the article and its comments. hi I agree with you in many respects, but categorically disagree with such a dashing advance of the Marine Corps (400 km, Karl !!!) inland. Somehow you think very badly about the Russian army and navy. And about Allen on the Vanguard - this is humor, designed to show the absurdity of your statement.
                      4. -1
                        29 January 2019 00: 15
                        I will try again.
                        The radius of Orlan is 120 kilometers.
                        If you find an American aircraft carrier 120 km from the coast, this can only mean one thing - American marines have long gone deep into the territory.
                        otherwise there will simply be no aircraft carrier near the coast.
                        the eagle does not fit for the search for aircraft carriers, in short if. hi hi
                      5. -1
                        29 January 2019 00: 29
                        I did not claim that Orlan is suitable for searching for AUG. Finding an aircraft carrier 120 km from the coast is basically impossible, as well as moving the marines 300-400 km deeper, if shorter. hi
    3. 0
      30 January 2019 10: 51
      Of course they think about it. But since the 3M14 series gauges are designed for stationary purposes, and if there will be a 200-CT SBN, then Jeepies does not need, along with Glogas, an inertial guidance system. 2-3 km from the center of Pocio, as it changes little.
      1. -2
        1 February 2019 08: 01
        Who said? RK Caliber operates 30 types of cr missiles and missile torpedoes, only for ground targets 12 types, anti-ship, 15., Anti-submarine 3.
    4. -3
      1 February 2019 07: 59
      Russian cr missiles already fly 10 km and are able to fly into the Pantygon window, so targeting is all the way through.
  4. +9
    27 January 2019 08: 19
    Modernization is right. It is a pity, of course, that the "Granites" are being removed. Powerful rockets, but there's nothing you can do - oldies. There remains, however, the hope that over time, "Zircons" may appear in their place, as a full-fledged replacement for "Granites". "Calibers" and "Onyxes", with all due respect, are not exactly what you need against AUG.
    1. 0
      27 January 2019 08: 22
      "Calibers" and "Onyxes", with all due respect, are not exactly what you need against AUG.

      It would be better to pump the PKR P-1000 Vulcan with the ability to install on 949A Ave.
      1. +2
        27 January 2019 08: 38
        The idea, of course, is interesting. Only, apparently, the Vulcan will not fit into the Granit launcher - a little too big. If only, as you say, to pump it ... And so - a decent rocket. I like.
        1. +1
          28 January 2019 02: 00
          The volcano is only a surface launch. It would be cheaper and easier to "pump" Granite.
      2. +1
        27 January 2019 12: 10
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        "Calibers" and "Onyxes", with all due respect, are not exactly what you need against AUG.

        It would be better to pump the PKR P-1000 Vulcan with the ability to install on 949A Ave.

        Better yet, they would have withdrawn the two remaining Sharks from the reserve ("Donskoy does not count"), repaired and instead of the strategic missile launchers stuck in the Caliber launchers. There they would have included at least 5 of them. Total - 100 cruise missiles. Such a carrier of an arsenal of weapons. Abruptly "Ticonderogi" will be. Since it can also dive. That would be a good gift to Japam. One would be in Vilyuchinsk, the second in the Sea of ​​Japan peacefully ply not far from Fokino. And if something happens - a salvo of these two monsters would be enough to arrange an armageddon, for example, in Hokkaido, and the desire to think about the Kuril Islands, and even more so to contemplate any landing operations, will disappear instantly.
        But these unique ships rotten aimlessly.
        1. +9
          27 January 2019 13: 46
          It's not just "Sharks". We can say that these are polar "Sharks". These cruisers were originally conceived for ice navigation with the ability to fire from under the ice. It was for this that the R-39 was invented, complete with a depreciation rocket and launch system (ARSS). You can read about it here:
          http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/archive/ot-podvodnogo-starta-k-podlednomu06-06-2013-14-00-00/
          In the Arctic, they simply did not have competitors. The Americans still do not have anything like TRPSN. This is now, when the ice in the Arctic began to melt heavily, the brave American submariners began to go under the ice. Before, they considered this business a very dangerous occupation, and therefore tried not to take risks.
          With a length of 16 meters, the P-39 had a diameter of 2,4 meters. Therefore, its launcher can easily accommodate 7 "Calibers" of any modification. In total, we have 20 "Calibers" in 140 launchers. "Ticonderoga" really has a rest and in full.
          1. +10
            27 January 2019 14: 46
            Somehow you are all very optimistic about the Shark happened. I had slightly different information. A shark is a forced decision, a ship that is very expensive to build and operate, which, moreover, is very easy to spot. When the Americans created the Los Angeles nuclear submarine, it turned out that the combination of its noiselessness, the latest HAC and the latest torpedo led to the Dreadnought effect: all existing ships were outdated and turned into targets. Therefore, in response to ours, they began to create a bastion and a Shark, which was supposed to go under the ice and hide most of its unmasking signs, including the noisiness masked by the creaks of hummocks. And the colossal displacement was caused not only by the features of the missile system, but also by the requirement for technical requirements so that the Shark could launch even after it hit 4 MK48 torpedoes (Moose has 4 TAs). Ours did it. Americans began to invent a boat that could operate on the bastion and created Sea Wulf. Created and fucked up - the boat turned out cool, but cost like 8 Elk. They decided not to build Si Wulfs anymore, but then they ordered two more to support the industry (while they are thinking how to live further) to solve special tasks. And then the Union collapsed and they began to rivet Virginia.
            1. +3
              27 January 2019 16: 02
              Thanks for the American excursion. I want to touch only on "Shark". It turned out to be so big for three reasons. Firstly, the R-39, together with the ARSS, in which they are located, are the largest objects ever installed in launchers of submarine cruisers (the ARSS is 16 meters long). Secondly, the launch mass of the rocket is 90 tons, which is not at all the same as the 59 tons of Trident II. And, finally, thirdly - this boat is not afraid of the ice of the Northern Ocean, - due to its large buoyancy reserve and the presence of a strong felling, it can surface at any time of the year and anywhere, breaking ice up to 2,5 meters thick (thicker not even in winter), which is unlikely to be possible with any of the American submarines. Yes, it is noisy, but there was simply no one to listen to it in those places. Just as there was no one to look out for. And the Akula has one and a half times more torpedo tubes than the Elk.
          2. +3
            27 January 2019 22: 35
            Dear Sharks. And noisy. Repair with modernization will be more expensive than building a new Borei. It is better to finish the construction of Boreyev with Bulava and build four more (two per fleet) with launchers for "Caliber." And preferably for "Caliber-M." And they can also be launched from the Arctic polynya near the North Pole - they will get it.
            1. +1
              28 January 2019 06: 00
              And "Borey" and under the ice is not necessary. A modern ship, not noisy.
              1. -1
                28 January 2019 07: 37
                And most importantly, it is two times cheaper than the multi-purpose "Kazan".
                Of course under the ice is not necessary. With such an arsenal, any average state unfriendly can be weaned from democracy with one salvo.

                Explanation:
                Democracy - from the word DEMOS, is not a people, but only the richest and most noble part of it, to which all the fullness of rights belongs. Therefore, democracy is the power of DEMOS.
                And the people are OHLOS, their disenfranchised part, which is the forage base for DEMOS.
                From the word OHLOS there is a derivative - a vulgar-slang word - LOCH, in which, as in a mirror, the whole attitude of DEMOCRACY to the PEOPLE is reflected.

                The words are Egyptian - from the Greek and Latin dialects of the Egyptian language.

                EGYPT - the country of slaves \ the country of enslavement (etymology).

                Therefore, no democracy, only Russian CATHEDRAL:
                - kokoshnik
                - harp
                - round dance
                - and Russian kvass

                The whole world is in ruin, but we will not give up kvass !!!
          3. +2
            28 January 2019 01: 19
            Quote: Herrr
            With a length of 16 meters, the P-39 had a diameter of 2,4 meters.

            I don’t remember exactly how many meters in diameter. But I remember that I went around the rocket deck of the Shark and looked into open mines - it’s impressive. If 7 Caliber comes in, then you can only welcome
            1. +2
              28 January 2019 05: 56
              You are a happy person. I only saw them in pictures and in the movies. Grand ships.
              1. +2
                28 January 2019 09: 36
                Quote: Herrr
                You are a happy person. I only saw them in pictures and in the movies. Grand ships.

                The work was like this. Young years were given to Severodvinsk - SMP and Zvezdochka. Working as a contractor, I had to visit the "Shark", the "Antaea", the RTM, the "Barracuda". But basically these are BDR and BDRM. On them we went out to sea for testing. It was a glorious time.
                1. 0
                  28 January 2019 13: 43
                  You can even be proud. BDRMy are still in service. None were written off. good
                  1. +1
                    29 January 2019 02: 00
                    Quote: Herrr
                    You can even be proud. BDRMy are still in service. None were written off. good

                    BDRM yes, everything is in order. And there was only one BDR. And he acted as a testing platform. We called this ship "Axon". All torpedo equipment was thrown from the torpedo compartment and a new antenna was placed in front of him. Huge by our standards, and the bow of the boat was with an absurd thickening. And on the deck on the bow they put a "fishing rod" - a turning mechanism like a crane, which made measurements. the rest of the torpedo compartment was occupied by the new equipment of the antenna complex. The deckhouse of the boat was sloped back, like the Borey has now. New antennas were also installed on top of it.
                    we suffered with this ship - it was difficult to drown it, it was even more difficult to subdue it. But the test cycle has passed. Then, in the 90s, many (including myself) did not know what all these pribludes were for. But now it is clear that already then new systems for the Boreyev and Ash trees were being tested. these antennas and equipment are now there. So, even in hard, dashing years, they prepared the groundwork for modern ships.
                    1. 0
                      29 January 2019 04: 42
                      I have no words... hi And, in general, everything is correct. Enemies will come - they won’t come, but you do this. Reasonable, kind, eternal.
      3. +4
        27 January 2019 12: 43
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        It would be better to pump the PKR P-1000 Vulcan with the ability to install on 949A Ave.

        An ancient rocket that has not been manufactured for a long time? Can you still advise P35?
      4. +3
        27 January 2019 21: 41
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        It would be better to pump the PKR P-1000 Vulcan with the ability to install on 949A Ave.

        For me, it would be better to be engaged in stealth, the noise level would have been reduced to 10-12 DB ... And the fact that they are being re-equipped with modern anti-ship missiles is right. A new production base, more BZ will fit together, longer DB will be possible without replenishing the BZ.
      5. +1
        28 January 2019 20: 10
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        It would be better to pump the PKR P-1000 Vulcan with the ability to install on 949A Ave.

        Vulcan has a surface launch
      6. +1
        30 January 2019 10: 59
        No, these are not the ships of the Anti-Aircraft Division as they were 30 years ago. They all went to the 4th decade, it is clear that now no one will send them to the Ocean to hunt for AUG, they will be heard and destroyed (like Kursk?), Possibly even in peacetime. Therefore, they now have a different status: an SLCM submarine missile battery. They will slowly "crawl" in their tervods to the BS, in case of "anything!" .... You all know the range of the SLCM ...
    2. +4
      27 January 2019 11: 34
      Quote: Herrr
      "Calibers" and "Onyxes", with all due respect, are not exactly what you need against AUG.

      =============
      Yah?? 3M-54 - firstly, it can carry a nuclear warhead and, as it approaches the target, it accelerates to 3 strikes (while also maneuvering ... And the 3M-14 is generally an analogue of the "Tomogavka" ...
      That is, as a result of modernization, there should be some "shift in emphasis" - there was just a "hunter for AUG", but became a "universal fighter" ...
      "Granite" is certainly a powerful contraption ... To shoot down - oh, how difficult it is .... But on the other hand, to repel the attack of 24 "Granites" or 72 "Caliber" and "Onyx" ... WHAT is more difficult ??? This is a question !!!
      1. +1
        27 January 2019 11: 46
        But on the other hand, to repel the attack of 24 "Granites" or 72 "Calibers" and "Onyxes" ... WHAT is more difficult ??? This is a question !!!

        the most difficult thing will be to repel the attack of the anti-ship missiles "Zircon" and "Dagger" (!)
        1. -1
          27 January 2019 12: 44
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          the most difficult thing will be to repel the attack of the anti-ship missiles "Zircon" and "Dagger" (!)

          What's so complicated? They do not exist in nature, so there is no difficulty for reflection.
          1. +1
            27 January 2019 16: 12
            Miles, as they say, sorry. Is "Dagger" also cartoons?
            1. 0
              28 January 2019 00: 09
              when shooting at aircraft carriers and ships in general, there weren’t even cartoons, it seems.
              that they never shot is for sure
      2. +2
        27 January 2019 14: 15
        What is there to argue about? "Calibers" are simply handsome. But, nevertheless, special tools have always been preferable to universal ones. And Mach 3 "Caliber" is clearly not up to Mach 6 "Zircon" (I do not consider "Granite" any more, - we passed). And it is better not to use YABC as long as possible, because the beginning is dashing trouble.
    3. 0
      27 January 2019 11: 39
      Maybe the Granites will be given a second life - as missiles for the coastal missile complex, in support of the Bastions.
      1. 0
        27 January 2019 11: 47
        I think BPRK Bastion will also eventually switch to RCC Zircon
      2. 0
        27 January 2019 12: 16
        Quote: Vadim237
        Maybe the Granites will be given a second life - as missiles for the coastal missile complex, in support of the Bastions.

        Hardly. Most likely they are no longer produced and a new release is unlikely to be established. Well, that's not a bad idea. True, it is too big for a mobile installation. Stationary ground only. Poke them along the Kuril ridge, Primorye and Kamchatka - and hello to the "partners"
      3. +5
        27 January 2019 12: 45
        Quote: Vadim237
        Maybe the Granites will be given a second life - as missiles for the coastal missile complex, in support of the Bastions.

        Their service life has long expired, production was completed in the early 90's.
        1. -3
          27 January 2019 17: 13
          It will not be difficult to arrange their production anew at KTRV, they will make it easier and increase the range.
          1. +2
            28 January 2019 01: 35
            Yes, it's not about range. The point is in the old element base, noise immunity. There was infa a couple of years ago about the modernization of Granite, about the possible use of Onyx's "filling" in Granite. I don’t know how possible this is at all, but the idea, in my opinion, is not a bad one. The Kh-32 was made after all, and this is essentially a deeply modernized Kh-22, which is older than Granite.
      4. +4
        28 January 2019 01: 47
        Granite in DBK? belay DBK will then have to be driven into the sea before being launched. lol
    4. -2
      1 February 2019 08: 03
      zircons are launched from the regular Pu RK Caliber, one missile from the RK Caliber is enough to send an American floating carrier with the escort ships from 3-5 thousand km to the bottom!
  5. 0
    27 January 2019 08: 41
    It is a pity that they refused to modernize the 941 "Sharks", and yet each could carry up to 315 "Caliber" or "Onyx" with "Zircon". The great project was launched under the gas cutter.
    1. +2
      27 January 2019 11: 34
      NATO thinks we are cutting our old 941 Sharks, but we hide them in the taiga drinks
      1. +3
        27 January 2019 12: 45
        Beautiful picture! Scale just not respected.
      2. +10
        27 January 2019 14: 01
        Not drawn to scale. The height of the Akula building is a 9-storey building
        1. +1
          28 January 2019 01: 28
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Not drawn to scale. The height of the Akula building is a 9-storey building

          Yeah. And on the rocket deck Kamaz quietly unfolds
        2. 0
          3 February 2019 11: 02
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Scale not respected

          it's 40 meter baobabs ..... it just snowed
  6. +9
    27 January 2019 09: 41
    Quote: Romario_Argo
    TSU does not matter
    [/ I]

    Well, yes, of course, Onyxes over a pack of white sea we will suggest. The problem of obsolescence of coordinates is the cornerstone of the application of PCR.
  7. -1
    27 January 2019 10: 05
    There, it seems, not 24 launchers, but 12 paired launchers, i.e. under 2 granites each.
    1. +1
      27 January 2019 12: 11
      There are 12 on each side.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  8. +8
    27 January 2019 10: 43
    Earlier it was reported that all eight Anteys currently in service will receive new weapons.

    Then it was reported that only four. And given the fact that the terms of modernization of the first two fun go to the right ....
    1. +2
      27 January 2019 11: 23
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      And given the fact that the terms of modernization of the first two fun go to the right ....

      Andrei hi How much money will be enough and how much "Star" will master, but not less than 2. I also think that if I'm lucky, two Antheas will be able to modernize in the 20s. Irkutsk will be returned to service no earlier than 2021. October 16, 2018 OJSC Far Eastern Plant Zvezda (Bolshoi Kamen) launched the Project 186A nuclear-powered missile cruiser of the Pacific Fleet K-949 Omsk. APRK was restoring technical readiness at Zvezda. And the place for Chelyabinsk was vacated ...
      1. +1
        27 January 2019 14: 00
        I generally counted on 4, but ... and 2 - yes, two will be for sure, it’s most certainly
  9. 0
    27 January 2019 11: 38
    Submarine K-119 "Voronezh" (Sea Wolf), the protagonist of Vlad Savin's epic about the populace. I like it!
  10. -3
    27 January 2019 13: 24
    And "Granites" can be fired at the Bases of Terror and American Influence - in the Hot Spots of the Planet!
    Do not waste good.
  11. 0
    27 January 2019 13: 51
    That's interesting. At the NSR, when a boat is taken out of the workshop, the hatches of torpedo tubes and launchers are always closed with a tarp. The same garbage on the chassis. Iron Felixes in the water position are required to stretch this very tarp. And here everyone knows how many and what calibers torpedo tubes ...
  12. +1
    27 January 2019 15: 07
    Of course, this is better than nothing, but you need to soberly assess the capabilities of simple radar seekers Kalibrov and Onyx; against modern electronic warfare, their capabilities are very low.
    Yes, and for use on the shore near the Caliber, opportunities are limited - this is not the Tomahawk with its image guidance system in the terminal stage.
    1. -2
      28 January 2019 14: 01
      However, the "Caliber" is 5-6 times more expensive than the Ax. This is not yet taking into account the PPP. I am based on the amount of the Indian contract (although something other than missiles might have been included in the contract value). Is it really quite sadness with the "Caliber" filling ???
      1. -3
        1 February 2019 08: 06
        and 9-10 times more effective
  13. +10
    27 January 2019 17: 41
    Quote: Romario_Argo
    CU is not important, in a threatened period, with the containment of the same Japan. Antey can shuffle in the Kuril ridge and "stupidly" wait for the Japanese KUG (10) consisting of: 2 helicopter carriers, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates - giving them from a distance of 100 km. - 6 Onyx anti-ship missiles, and 6 Su-2 bombers also from Matua Island, will just highlight the KUG and launch 34 Kh-4AD anti-radar missiles.
    * If you look specifically at the situation, then a third-party control center is not particularly necessary. 10 Japanese ships can be destroyed using just 25% RCC Granite Ave. 949A

    Well, the Japanese suckers will go by ship group without anti-submarine cover, they will not have a distant detection zone with anti-submarine helicopters. They just went for a walk

    Quote: Beregovyhok_1
    The orbital group MKRTs "Legenda" was launched from orbit. It was replaced by "Liana", which has as many as 4 satellites. What is their coverage area? In what orbit are they, geostationary, or fly around the ball? Did Granites and Onyxes fire at the Liana's control center, at a distance of at least 300-400 km? I honestly try to find this information, but I only hear: "We have such devices! But we will not tell you about them ...".

    There is no full-fledged "Liana" yet and it is not clear when it will be. The main component of the system for exploration of the ocean is missing. "Peony" has not yet been launched, although it was originally planned for 2017 and then for 2018. Liana is in 900 km orbit ...
    What target designations can the Liana use to launch Granites and Onyxes when the system is not yet fully operational?

    Quote: Gritsa
    And in which case - a volley of these two monsters would be enough to arrange an armageddon, for example, in Hokkaido.

    Subsonic rockets? And how much could this monster be able to release before it would sink? Well, the armoheddon of an ordinary warhead with a weight of 300-400 kg is cool. 60-80 tons of explosives from two boats around the island - a masterpiece That is 60-80 monophonic bombs and no Hokkaido ???

    Quote: Herrr
    This is now, when the ice in the Arctic began to melt heavily, the brave American submariners began to go under the ice.

    Don't talk nonsense. They went under the ice before. Their "Nautilus" was the first to cross the North Pole under water in 1958 (our Lenin Komsomol passed in early 1962). The first to surface near the North Pole was their nuclear submarine "Skate" on 17.03.1959/17.07.1962/29.09.1963 (our boat "Leninsky Komsomol" surfaced in the area of ​​the joint venture on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX). And only XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX we were the first to swim in the geographic point of the North Pole.

    Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
    It is a pity that they refused to modernize the 941 "Sharks", and yet each could carry up to 315 "Caliber" or "Onyx" with "Zircon". The great project was launched under the gas cutter.

    Do not hesitate, Oleg. Write any number. Well, for example, that each boat will carry 750 "Caliber", "Onyx" or "Zircon". The boat has 20 mines. An elementary arithmetic operation shows that there should be 15,75 Caliber missiles in each silo. It will be located in the mines in 2 floors ???? Or maybe three ???
    1. +2
      27 January 2019 19: 08
      Krasava, "piled" on everyone ...))))
    2. 0
      27 January 2019 21: 25
      Uh-huh. Ohio carries 154 axes each. Apply your "elementary" calculations to them - where did they fit in so much?
      1. -2
        1 February 2019 08: 08
        the range of funny axes is only 450 km, which means useless pieces of iron.
    3. +1
      28 January 2019 06: 23
      Quote: Herrr
      This is now, when the ice in the Arctic began to melt heavily, the brave American submariners began to go under the ice.

      "Don't talk nonsense. They went under the ice before that. The first underwater through the North Pole was their" Nautilus "in 1958 (our Lenin Komsomol passed in early 1962). The first in the North Pole area surfaced their submarine" Skate "17.03.1959. 17.07.1962 (our boat "Leninsky Komsomol" surfaced in the area of ​​the joint venture on 29.09.1963/XNUMX/XNUMX). And only on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX we were the first to sail in the geographical point of the North Pole. "
      That's all right. We sing a song to the madness of the first. You have listed, in fact, "record-breaking athletes", others like pioneers, discoverers, etc. I was talking about combat patrolling, and this is no longer "hurray! Maybe we will succeed," but a state-of-the-art technology that does not provide for categories like "maybe". These are completely different things.
    4. -2
      28 January 2019 20: 39
      It's like that. Each exit is still fixed "when the log is untied"))) They do not semaphore with a tug and an icebreaker. Not to mention the exit requests, conversations with wives - on mobile phones - "here is mine going ..." And also about satellites, "Los" at the entrance, SGAR, BPA, and so on.
  14. +2
    27 January 2019 19: 48
    Quote: Romario_Argo
    It would be better to pump the PKR P-1000 Vulcan with the ability to install on 949A Ave.

    "Volcano" has a surface start - for the submarine it is yesterday.
  15. +1
    27 January 2019 19: 54
    Quote: Gritsa
    Better yet, they would have removed the two remaining Sharks from the reserve

    And the fleet will have "hemorrhoids 2.0".
  16. 0
    27 January 2019 20: 34
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jknbJ2C48VI
    Reference for relaxation: the song "Letter to the Divisional Commander" (Avtonomka-4) by Alexander Viktorov from project 949A.
  17. +2
    27 January 2019 21: 01
    Great boat, powerful, harsh, brutal, like all Soviet equipment smile And the modernization potential has not yet been exhausted.
    The decision not to dismantle the PUs for the Granites is also the right one. This means that it will remain possible to use heavy anti-ship missiles (Granite, in the future Zircon). With all the advantages of Caliber and Onyx, they are too small for aircraft carriers. For such a carcass, Granites were the most. good It is unfortunate that their time is running out.
    1. -5
      1 February 2019 08: 09
      one missile from the RK Caliber is enough to send to the bottom an American floating trough an aircraft carrier along with escort ships
  18. +2
    27 January 2019 21: 24
    sergo1914 (Sergey), dear, "Sharks" were built for 13 years. And how many were projected? How many counterparty enterprises have sent their workers to Sevmash over the years? How many Sevmash workers have left since 1976, when the Sharks began to build, for permanent residence throughout the USSR, and after 1991 throughout the world? How many conscripts served on them? And the midshipmen, and the officers and admirals? And "Hallibarton-Sevmash" (with the head of "Hallibarton" nice guy Dick Haney), which had an office in Sevmash DITR, and similar offices, that they walked freely around Sevmash and "Zvezdochka" and allocated money for the disposal of the APL? And the modernization of the first building, how much was designed and worked on? And in 2010, when two submariners from "Dmitry Donskoy" were removed by the state drug control for selling drugs, they were convicted by the Severodvinsk garrison military court, and 10 more servicemen from this glorious ship were dismissed for involvement in drug sales, did not you know such a sad story? All-all thousands of these people were silent, strictly keeping the state secret of the country which does not exist or the aggressor country? Has Wikipedia been canceled? And how many, not very friendly with the head, servicemen with mobile phones with built-in cameras, were detained by the guards of Sevmash and "Zvezdochka"? And how many of these "defenders" were not detained? ... Or do you think that secrecy is not needed?
  19. -1
    27 January 2019 23: 06
    72 rockets, that's cool.
    The question is, will we give time to reload after the first volley?
    1. -4
      1 February 2019 08: 11
      72 missiles enough to destroy the entire industrial and military potential of the United States
  20. -3
    27 January 2019 23: 51
    Quote: Vadim237
    Maybe the Granites will be given a second life - as missiles for the coastal missile complex, in support of the Bastions.

    Smart by the way! Like) Extra on the one hand, because the bastions as a whole are coping and the extra loot to swell is wasteful now, but for intimidation it is completely - uranium-bastion-granite. I’ll add that if it were still to be stuffed with something tasty like jamming, etc., then super
    1. +3
      28 January 2019 00: 05
      It is not clear from us where to take Granites for Anteys (they have not been produced for a long time), and you want to drag them to the shore. And how are you going to launch them from the shore: to launch them, you need to flood the launchers with water (even on a completely above-water Petra), is this real for a ship, but for a land launcher? No, of course, you can introduce 1-2 cars with pumps and water into the complex, but still it’s too much, IMHO.
    2. +1
      28 January 2019 13: 41
      Do you know the dimensions of the rocket and its weight? What size tractor is needed? Eight-axis? How on "Poplar"? It will no longer be a mobile complex. laughing
  21. 0
    28 January 2019 09: 14
    an important direction, the modernization of nuclear submarines and the construction of new ones is the main thing in the development of the Russian Navy
  22. +1
    28 January 2019 11: 02
    Quote: Herrr
    That's all right. We sing a song to the madness of the first. You have listed, in fact, "record-breaking athletes", others like pioneers, discoverers, etc. I was talking about combat patrolling, and this is no longer "hurray! Maybe we will succeed," but a state-of-the-art technology that does not provide for categories like "maybe". These are completely different things.

    There was also combat patrolling. And many times. In the late 90s (95-99), Americans surfaced more than 10 times at the North Pole. At 86 there were also group surfacing. They regularly, since 1960, have been conducting exercises under the ice of the Arctic Ocean. It is called ICEX. It is known for sure that in 2016 the ICEX-2016 exercise took place, by the way, the twenty-seventh exercise. The question is that now very little has been written about this, and our adversary under the ice basically does not have SSBNs, like ours, but "hunters", the same "Elks" and "Virginias"
  23. exo
    0
    28 January 2019 11: 40
    Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
    Irkutsk will not be returned to operation from the APRK of the 949 project at the earliest of the 2021 year. APRK in Big Stone since 2001 year, repair began in 2014 year. Either there was no money, then a free slipway, and modernization was already needed there ... Alas, we always managed to build ships better than to repair them later.

    Unfortunately, now everything is in balance: we are building as long as we are repairing.
  24. 0
    28 January 2019 12: 23
    Yeah, I would like it to be faster, but the capacities do not allow us to modernize Antei faster. Consider one Asterisk doing this. Maybe I'm wrong. Something else is not heard about the construction of the latest submarines. We talked about Husky and quietly. Well, that drew attention to civil shipbuilding. We do not have a fishing fleet. Everywhere there are only holes.
  25. 0
    28 January 2019 13: 17
    Each of the 24 launchers under the P-700 should accommodate a special module with three cells for the transport and launch containers of modern missiles.

    Granite diameter - 850 mm, Caliber - 533, Onyx - 670. Something is not clear with "three cells" for "each launcher" belay
    1. +1
      28 January 2019 20: 29
      Quote: Astronaut
      Granite diameter - 850 mm, Caliber - 533, Onyx - 670. Something is not clear with "three cells" for "each launcher"

      The diameter of the circumscribed circle (rocket in the container) - 1350 mm
    2. -1
      1 February 2019 08: 12
      diameter of a glass of granite is 120 cm!
  26. 0
    28 January 2019 20: 03
    The new Zircons will also go to the PU for "Calibers". PU are compatible with both types of missiles.
  27. -1
    28 January 2019 20: 30
    Some doubts. Back in the 2000s, unbalanced shafts caused them to beat at speeds above 10 knots. I don’t know how "Zvezdochka" will cope with this. Fifteen years ago they thundered decently.
    The problem of target designation for AMG, at least with some missile. If only in the cities "Caliber" beat. You still need to reach them and leave quietly from Avachi.
    A fragment of the story.
    How do I know? Yes, he himself listened to them through the RSL. The range for foreigners is up to 500 meters, Baton is up to 3 km at a speed of 10-12 knots.

  28. +1
    28 January 2019 23: 02
    Quote: Beregovyhok_1
    However, the "Caliber" is 5-6 times more expensive than the Ax.

    Do not confuse the cost of overseas contracts (to the same India) with our domestic price. On the anniversary of the entry of our contingent into Syria, Shoigu reported on what had been done and how much was spent in rubles. So, if the sums of the cost of the "Calibers" let in at that time are converted into dollars, then the cost of the "Caliber" turns out to be something about 800-850 thousand dollars, while their cost is about 1-1,2 million dollars. And according to foreign contracts, yes, the cost is about 5 million greens

    Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
    Uh-huh. Ohio carries 154 axes each. Apply your "elementary" calculations to them - where did they fit in so much?

    I applied it. Ohio has 7 Tomahawks in each mine. Rockets are in 22 out of 24 mines. In total, this gives the required 154 rockets.

    But you wrote that
    Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051

    It is a pity that the modernization of the 941 "Sharks" was abandoned,and after all each could carry up to 315 "Gauges" or "Onyxes" with "Zircons". A great project was launched under the gas cutter.


    To which they received my answer, so that you do not hesitate and write any number you want. At least 315 "Calibers" or "Onyxes" or "Zircons", at least 750

    My answer to you then is below

    Quote: Old26
    Do not hesitate, Oleg. Write any number. Well, for example, that each boat will carry 750 "Caliber", "Onyx" or "Zircon". The boat has 20 mines. An elementary arithmetic operation shows that there should be 15,75 Caliber missiles in each silo. It will be located in the mines in 2 floors ???? Or maybe three ???


    So count. Caliber mine on the project 941 - 2,4 meters. How many launch containers can I enter there?
    Caliber "Caliber" EMNIP is 517 mm. In TPK - 533 mm. In a circle with a diameter of 2,4 m (mine from R-39) with normal technological gaps between the TPK can be entered 9 TPK missile "Caliber"... Caliber "Onyx" 670-mm. EMNIP TPK has a caliber of 715 mm (although this is not important). In a circle with a diameter of 2,4 meters (mine from R-39) you can enter 7 TPK "Onyx".

    The dimensions of the Zircon are still unknown.

    So, if you multiply 9 TPK "Calibra" for 20 mines or 7 TPK "Onyx" for the same 20 minesthat is to spend ELEMENTARY CALCULATIONSthen you will receive accordingly 180 "Caliber" or 140 "Onyx", Agree that this is slightly less than what you specify 315 "Caliber" / "Onyx"

    So, dear Oleg, you have not actually made even the most elementary calculations. Therefore, have the courage to admit that you are wrong, and not to transfer the arrows to your opponent by asking him questions, "where is so much on Ohio"
    1. -3
      1 February 2019 08: 14
      Zircon is launched from regular PU RK Caliber
      1. +1
        1 February 2019 20: 01
        "Zircon" is not yet launched from anywhere. "avant-garde", "petrel" and "poseidon" either do not exist in nature or in service. I am warning your answer about the invincibility of the Red Army and overwhelming superiority over world imperialism.
        1. -4
          2 February 2019 10: 18
          Zircon has been in service for three years, they are testing new models, calls the X-102 missile cr-10 rocket whose range is 000 km, has been in service for 10 years, they just put a nuclear engine with an unlimited flight range on it, Poseidon is the new bottom Skip torpedo rocket which in service for 4 years!
          1. +1
            2 February 2019 10: 28
            What do you smoke? I serve in the Navy, if that.
            1. -4
              2 February 2019 10: 44
              And what do you do there, do you mop the deck? I wrote a lot about these rockets 5 years ago! And 100mtn torpedoes were in service already in the 70s!
              1. +2
                2 February 2019 11: 35
                Sorry, Comrade Army General !!! Did not recognize the Minister of Defense !!! Please remind the number of the order on the adoption of these products! Or at least a message on mil.ru. And on what ships, in what parts they have been available for 5 years. I’ll ask friends - polishers from the ships.
                1. -4
                  2 February 2019 12: 11
                  Sorry, you forgot to report !! about RK missiles Caliber with a range of up to 4 thousand km, everyone learned only after striking Syria from the Caspian Sea !! And they have been in service for 20 years!
                  1. 0
                    2 February 2019 12: 30
                    What's so little? More precisely, the S-10 "Granat", from which the "Calibers" were born. Then not 20 years, but since 1984. About "Caliber" was announced when the UKSK was created. When did the first ships with export analogs of the Caliber (Indian 11356) appear? And in our fleet? I am talking about arming the army with new types of weapons only when they enter the troops, when there are carriers for them. And now all the new items are only in your imagination, based on faith in the cartoons of the Darkest. If you have something to say with links to sources, then immediately upload them, or better write an article. I will be your fan and I will add madly !!!
                    1. -3
                      2 February 2019 13: 53
                      RK Caliber has 5 modifications that can work with 40 types of cr missiles! RK caliber carriers are already hundreds of ships and submarines, there are also ground-based RKs in standard cargo containers that can be used at least from ports, from bulk carriers and railway trains!
                      1. 0
                        2 February 2019 14: 06
                        Is it trolling? 5 types of missiles and less than 30 carriers (Navy).
                      2. -3
                        2 February 2019 14: 31
                        Only on ground targets 15 types of missiles, prostarabara 13, anti-submarine Rocket torpedoes 3 types !! + hypersonic zircon type!
                    2. -2
                      2 February 2019 14: 00
                      1. +2
                        2 February 2019 14: 07
                        Mass-dimensional model
                      2. -2
                        2 February 2019 14: 32
                        The Club missile launcher has been in service for 10 years.
  29. 0
    30 January 2019 12: 01
    PLA "Eagle" has never been to the Pacific Fleet
  30. 0
    30 January 2019 21: 14
    Quote: Puncher
    Quote: Gritsa
    Imagine flying an iron log in a two-girth thickness at a speed of 2,5 Mach.

    And missiles go astray, what's so complicated?
    Quote: Gritsa
    Try to stop him with some kind of "phalanxes"

    The interference will be delivered and fly away nowhere.
    I remind you. In all cases of using electronic warfare systems, anti-ship missiles with radar seekers flew into milk.

    - And the calibers will not fly into milk? Fly away even faster.
    1. -2
      2 February 2019 10: 20
      Neither granite nor granite will fly anywhere because they cut down all the electronics for the enemy for a few seconds and strike, no one will put any interference.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. 0
    2 February 2019 01: 16
    Quote: mehan
    72 rockets, that's cool.
    The question is, will we give time to reload after the first volley?


    The question is rather whether they will give the first salvo. It is foolish to say the least to put rockets into an old and noisy submarine. I estimate roughly, including the cost of modernization. It will not work to bring it to the US coast for salvo, and in their fortresses it is more efficient to place a file like Gotland. It cost the entire 0.5 million. For 100 billion, you can build several pl and equip missiles. Yes, the BC from kr will be less, but there would still be room to shoot. Such a pl is the only thing that can get close to aug from us, not counting the new apls, which, once or twice, were counted.
    1. -3
      2 February 2019 10: 22
      When these missiles take off and reach US targets there will be no more, the latest hypersonic missiles will fly up to the United States 0.5-5 minutes and only dust will remain, backward Americans will not even have time to fart from fear.
      1. +1
        2 February 2019 23: 30
        Quote: Vanguard2090

        When these missiles take off and reach US targets there will be no more, the latest hypersonic missiles will fly up to the United States 0.5-5 minutes and only dust will remain, backward Americans will not even have time to fart from fear.

        what nonsense do you get? Where does the state drug control look?
        1. -2
          3 February 2019 03: 51
          What do you dislike? I wrote ordinary facts, such is the speed of rockets launched from neutral waters in the USA 5 minutes is enough to finish everything! Or didn’t go to school?
    2. -4
      2 February 2019 10: 23
      there are no new nuclear submarines in the usa, one ancient rusty trash !! Russia will last 0.5-5 minutes to turn the United States into dust!
  33. -1
    9 February 2019 01: 55
    Listen and you can not push aerobalistic missiles in these mines? We will have Iskander on the ground, a Dagger in the air, and modernized 949s at sea will carry anti-ship anti-ballistic missiles?