Destroyers Zumwalt: the greatest failure in the history of the US Navy?

147
Today, the United States has the most powerful and most capable naval forces in the world. Maybe the Chinese Navy will be able to compete with them in the future. However, taking into account engineering and technical difficulties and the huge costs of building aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, real rivalry can be expected no earlier than the 2050s. This is assuming that the PRC will not face severe political and economic crises characteristic of authoritarian models of governance.

However, the American fleet and the "dark" sides. One of them is the newest Zamvolt destroyers. Separately, it should be said about the "childhood illnesses" of the ship. Light and not very. Recall that in December last year, USS Zumwalt was required to interrupt the tests and return to the shipyards located in Maine. The cause was called a ship breakdown. There have been malfunctions in equipment that protects sensitive electrical equipment from unwanted power fluctuations. And no later than last summer it became known that the second destroyer of the Zumwalt type - “Michael Monsur” - needed to replace one of the turbines due to the fact that during the acceptance tests of the ship its blades were damaged.



In general, such problems, with all the desire can not be called "critical" for the program. In one form or another, they accompany any model of new military equipment, and even more so - a revolutionary one. And the Zamvolt is a truly revolutionary ship. Sooner or later, the difficulties described above are likely to be resolved. However, the destroyer risks entering history fleet as a symbol of complete failure. And that's why.



1. Early program errors

Of course, political changes cannot be unambiguously attributed to the shortcomings of a particular type of military equipment. However, in our case, it was the strengthening of the US global role that had a decisive effect. Recall that the new destroyer appeared in the framework of the program SC-21 (Surface Combatant for the 21st century), which meant supplying the fleet of a number of surface ships- “invisible” new generation. This also included a promising cruiser CG (X), which was abandoned altogether. Most surprisingly, such a large-scale program appeared in 1994, after the Cold War. And conceived as an instrument of new policy. In simple terms, ideally, SC-21 should have been economical, but did not become it.

Now it's hard to believe, but first, the military wanted to get the 32 of the newest destroyer, making the Zumwalt one of the workhorses of the US Navy. Then this number was reduced to 24, then to seven, and finally to three units. That is, only three ships of the Zumvolt type are: the head ships are USS Zumwalt, USS Michael Monsoor and USS Lyndon B. Johnson. The latter was launched in the 2017 year.

At the same time, the United States spent about five billion dollars only on research and development work as of 2016, and the cost of the entire program was estimated at 2015 in the billion US dollars back in the distant 22 year. The price of one ship with such a small lot exceeded the fantastic four billion dollars: to put it mildly, a dubious result for such money. We will not analyze in detail the technical stuffing of the Zamvolta, however, it is clear that the three destroyers will not be able to fundamentally increase the combat potential of the US Navy. But to become a problem in operation - they can.

Thus, it is safe to say that the SC-21 program did not fit into the new American policy. Since at first the United States overestimated external threats, and then underestimated them. Perhaps it would appear now, when the Chinese began to dramatically strengthen their naval forces, the fate of the program would be different.



2. The concept of unobtrusive ships

One more time to remind about all the innovations of Zamvolt, perhaps, no. We only note that the concept is based on reduced observability. The specific shape of the body allows you to hide it from detection by radar stations. It is estimated that the destroyer has a means of stealth, reducing its effective dispersion area by about 50 times in comparison with other warships and ships of similar size.

It would seem - an enormous achievement. But. No ship can be regarded as a "superhero." This is not a lone fighter, but part of the naval component, which includes ships of various types. Perhaps the best example is a carrier strike group or AUG. It is known to include aircraft carriers (or aircraft carriers), cruisers, destroyers, nuclear submarines, frigates and other ships and vessels. The AUG of the US fleet, for example, may include one aircraft carrier, up to ten escort ships (cruisers, destroyers, frigates, submarines) and support vessels.

Imagine that the Americans really managed to make the most subtle cruiser and destroyer, as well as produce dozens of such ships. What's next? It would not have been possible to make an aircraft carrier strike group, in principle. This is a giant noisy “machine”, the main advantages of which are not unnoticeable, but tactical strike potential combined with a very powerful air defense. By the way, for now this is quite enough. And it will be enough, as already mentioned, until the appearance of several AUG in China.

At the same time, no one says that low-profile aircraft are not needed for deck aircraft. For them, this is perhaps just a key indicator: in the current conditions of the abrupt development of the capabilities of medium-range missiles of the air-to-air class and air defense missile systems. But this is a completely different conversation, which does not have a direct relationship to Zamvolt.



3. Poorly designed appearance destroyer

The above problems have forced Americans to "rush" from side to side: where to attach three very large and very expensive ships? Ground for launching cruise missiles? They have a destroyer, and indeed can be many - up to 80 pieces. But the US Navy does not have a shortage of tactical strike weapons carriers. Suffice it to say that each of the converted Ohio submarines can carry up to 154 cruise missiles.

In the autumn of 2018, it became known, the US Navy still found a task for the Zamvolta - the destruction of ships away from the coast. To do this, the US military intends to slightly change the range of weapons, including anti-ship versions of Tomahawk cruise missiles and SM-6 anti-aircraft missiles to protect against air attacks.

De facto, this means that the ship was simply not needed: it’s very difficult to imagine Zumwalt’s attacks on the naval formations of a potential enemy. Here you need to take into account the colossal potential of the deck aviation The United States, in which such a decision is likely to never be needed at all. Recall that the US military has already begun to receive AGM-158 LRASM anti-ship missiles: they will be used by both the navy and the air force.



At the same time there are very serious questions to the artillery installation. Last year, it became known that the US Navy would not buy new ammunition for the Zamvolt destroyers. The fact is that the cost of one LRLAP guided missile for its gun exceeded one million dollars: in other words, it came close to the price of a Tomahawk missile. I don't even want to remember about the railgun, which they wanted to arm the ship with: they had long since abandoned it.

Summarizing all the above, it cannot be excluded that the destroyers Zamvolt are waiting for the fate of the Virginia-class nuclear missile cruisers, which the Americans wrote off much earlier than the expected time limit.
147 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +1
    17 January 2019 05: 29
    The above problems made the Americans "rush" from side to side: where to attach three very large and very expensive ships?

    ... put on a pedestal opposite the pentagon ... laughing
    1. +2
      17 January 2019 18: 36
      ... put on a pedestal opposite the pentagon.

      Laughter in vain. Even if it remains in the amount of 3 pieces, it will remain the first of a new type in history. The F-117 is already history, but it is the first. After that, all US aircraft have an invisible glider.
      Everyone forgets the main point - "stealth" is not only against detection. This is impossible, and not the main thing. And to reduce the range with which you can use the radar seeker of the anti-ship missile.
      1. -3
        18 January 2019 09: 25

        dauria (Alexey) Yesterday, 18: 36
        +1
        ... put on a pedestal opposite the pentagon.

        Vain laugh. Even if it remains in the number of 3 pieces, it will remain the first of a new type in history. F-117 is already history, but he is the first.

        ... now I'll start to cry ... laughing such a loot was dumped by the mericatos into these projects, and so that this iron could not fight and find no application?! .... Well, well, I personally congratulate you and the meager ...
        1. 0
          18 January 2019 20: 24
          such loot is tumbled down by mericatos
          You count your loot! Loot, in general, a relative thing .. In principle, like horses in a vacuum ..
      2. +1
        18 January 2019 14: 53
        Quote: dauria
        Laughter in vain.


        I agree with you, dear dauria hi
        I want to add - this is also a new level in technology, the next step, so to speak. drinks
    2. +1
      16 February 2019 08: 55
      Scientific work on the destroyer has not gone away, all the achievements will go to the archive for further development, well done Americans are moving forward. Only Rogozin is not mistaken.))) And if you do not do nifin, you will never be mistaken at all
  2. +13
    17 January 2019 06: 18
    In fact, it is quite normal. Mattresses have money. And they spend it as they want. As a run-in technology, it is not bad at all. Remember the first-born stealth technology F-117. It was expensive, poor in appearance, it had few weapons and flew extremely mediocre. And then what happened!? The first generation 5 planes were born! And you can’t call them unsuccessful anymore! So, it remains to make a conclusion — we would have their problems recourse
    1. -11
      17 January 2019 06: 45
      Quote: Magic Archer
      Mattresses have money.

      Mattresses have no money for a long time - since 1971, when the USA abandoned the gold standard Yes There are only paper wrappers that you can print as much as you like, for everyone else is afraid to say it and recognize lol The dollar keeps on this - on the bayonets of the American infantryman (sailor, pilot), and the whole world looks into pink skies and believes that this is the way it should ... If there were a TDF, this would not have happened ... feel
      1. +7
        17 January 2019 08: 24
        Quote: Rurikovich
        This is where the dollar rests - on the bayonets of an American infantryman

        "Never have so many owed so many to so few" (Never has so much been owed by so many to so few) - W. Churchill about 1,4 million US troops, who are holding bayonets at 14,5 trillion. dollar money supply. That is, 10 million dollars of money supply M2 per bayonet. And 15 million public debt each, by the way.
        Quote: Rurikovich
        US abandoned the gold standard

        Thank God, Comrade Maduro created the El Petro Oil Cryptocurrency, backed by the oil wealth of Venezuela. We need to give Madura as many useless wrappers as possible so that he returns them to us with his Mavrodiki madurikami. When the dollar bursts, everyone will cry, and Madura and I laugh at them.
        1. +7
          17 January 2019 14: 55
          We have a Maduro howl, Kudrin by name. So God with her with Venezuela, with his MADURAS would understand.
        2. +3
          17 January 2019 15: 24
          Churchill about 1,4 million. US military, who hold on bayonets 14,5 trillion. dollar money supply.

          He was not talking about this. This was said about English pilots whose effective actions ultimately thwarted the German invasion of Britain
          1. 0
            17 January 2019 15: 47
            Quote: glk63
            He was not talking about this. It was said about the English pilots

            )))
            1. 0
              17 January 2019 18: 28
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Quote: glk63
              He was not talking about this. It was said about the English pilots

              )))

              He spoke, he said. And then he added:
              We will go to the end
              we will pay in pounds in France,
              we will pay in pounds on the seas and oceans,
              we will pay in pounds with growing confidence and growing strength in the air,
              we will pay in pounds on our Island, whatever the price,
              we will pay in pounds on the beaches
              we will pay in pounds on the coasts
              we will pay in pounds in the fields and on the streets,
              we will pay in pounds in the hills;
              we will never give up el petro
              and even if this happens, in which I do not believe for a moment that this Island or most of it will be enslaved by el-petro and will starve to death, then our Empire overseas, armed and under the protection of the British Navy, will continue the battle , until, in the time blessed by God, the New World, with all its strength and power, goes to the salvation and liberation of the old with pounds, bucks and euros!
              hi
              laughing
              1. 0
                17 January 2019 21: 32
                Only they have neither an empire, nor a fleet.
                1. +1
                  17 January 2019 22: 38
                  Do we have?
                  1. 0
                    18 January 2019 11: 27
                    The conversation is actually for Britain.
                    And what we need - we have it.
                2. +5
                  18 January 2019 01: 31
                  Quote: Carpenter 2329
                  Only they have no empire

                  It is believed that the Britons were kicked out of places where the headless black majority came to power (and even then not everywhere).
                  In those places where the big-headed white majority, or at least the cunning Asian majority, came to power, the Empire is quite alive for itself, only without unnecessary pathos, of course.

                  Because it is convenient and useful to both parties.
                  1. +2
                    18 January 2019 01: 54
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Quote: Carpenter 2329
                    Only they have no empire

                    It is believed that the Britons were kicked out of places where the headless black majority came to power (and even then not everywhere).
                    In those places where the big-headed white majority, or at least the cunning Asian majority, came to power, the Empire is quite alive for itself, only without unnecessary pathos, of course.

                    Because it is convenient and useful to both parties.

                    And if you dig deeply where the shots come from for "Empire of the Big-headed and Sly-headed", then 9 out of 10 Oxford or Harvard (and 99 out of 100 - the good old Ivy League). Even Trump would seem - no, without the League nowhere.
                    1. +1
                      18 January 2019 02: 20
                      It’s just the United States that doesn’t fit into the "British empire" very much.
                      Quote: Wildcat
                      Even Trump would seem

                      All anti-elite blondes - Trump, B. Johnson, many of them - can be considered anti-elite only among a rather scattered public. As for the Ivy League, it is a relatively recent tradition. Between FDR and Bush Sr. there was only DFK. But in 88 the majors took over America.
      2. +2
        17 January 2019 11: 54
        Do we have gold rubles backed up? If my memory serves me right, then in Russia the ruble is tied to the dollar and print our money, as the United States does, we are simply not able to.
        1. -1
          26 March 2019 17: 16
          We sell natural resources for dollars, then for these dollars we buy securities of Western countries (American securities have the greatest liquidity, therefore we still buy them), but under these securities we print rubles. So our constitution tells us to do. And in order to convert our gold into rubles, we must sell it for dollars, buy securities and print rubles! That is, we give away goods (gold, oil, airplanes), give away dollars, and create worthless paper. And there is no action against this !!! None of Navalny, Grudinin, and others called for a change in the constitution. There are many things that need to be changed, for example, the supremacy of international law over our legislation, the prohibition of the state to lend money to citizens. (That is, the state now attracts private banks, which in turn are borrowed from Western banks, and then we pay loans under 20% and a mortgage for life). Something like this in a nutshell.
      3. +8
        17 January 2019 12: 13
        And some countries of Polynesia still have special shells like money.
        Here is such a strong standard! good laughing
        They are not afraid of any collapses of the dollar, gold or RMB.
      4. +3
        17 January 2019 13: 25
        Quote: Rurikovich
        Quote: Magic Archer
        Mattresses have money.

        Mattresses have no money for a long time - since 1971, when the USA abandoned the gold standard Yes There are only paper wrappers that you can print as much as you like, for everyone else is afraid to say it and recognize lol The dollar keeps on this - on the bayonets of the American infantryman (sailor, pilot), and the whole world looks into pink skies and believes that this is the way it should ... If there were a TDF, this would not have happened ... feel


        And also on a huge domestic market with high purchasing power, exclusive, patented technologies and a huge industrial base (yes, this is despite the talk about what they do in China).
      5. 0
        17 January 2019 22: 37
        Well, you admitted it? So there will be "Happiness" for us now!
    2. +5
      17 January 2019 07: 29
      Magic Archer (Vladimir) Today, 06:18
      F-117. It was expensive, wretched outwardly, it had few weapons and flew extremely mediocre. And what happened then!? The first aircraft of the 5th generation were born! And they can’t be called unsuccessful anymore! their problems

      Oh sure. The ATF programs and the Nighthawk development are not too far apart in time. When assessments appeared based on the results of tests, and then the operation of the F-117, the first pre-production copies of the F-22 were already ready. Therefore, it is more correct to say about the generality of engineering ideas both there and there than in heredity. I'm not even talking about the fact that simultaneously with the above-mentioned programs, the "Spirit" program was implemented. Even if it turned out to be the same gold, then emnip 20 machines are still in service.
      1. +3
        17 January 2019 18: 02
        Spirit is also a dubious thing.
        Sometimes I get the thought that it’s easier to build a platform on the units of long-haul airliners. To fly long and far, it was built cheaply and in bulk, it was cheap to maintain, repaired simply and had a large internal volume for long-range missiles. The task of breaking through the enemy’s air defense for a strategist-level engine ... Firstly, it is unlikely that this air defense is not suppressed first, and secondly, carpet bombing is now irrelevant - it’s easier to get missiles. But the task of air patrolling in an endangered period (roughly speaking - hanging in the air and ready to shoot) - for that, not quite Spirit and not even even the Tu-160 are required.
        However, this is my personal opinion. Aviators know better what they need.
        1. +3
          17 January 2019 19: 04
          Quote: dumkopff
          Sometimes I get the thought that it’s easier to build a platform on the units of long-haul airliners

          Boeing 747 CMCA "Cruise Missile Carrier Aircraft"
          1. +3
            17 January 2019 19: 37
            Well this, of course, is strong. Maybe it would work. But how then to cut the loot? :)
            1. +3
              17 January 2019 20: 32
              Quote: dumkopff
              Maybe it would work. But how then to cut the loot? :)

              Yes, everything was funny there. In the 80s, the military dragged 4 bomber / missile carrier programs: Lancer, Spirit, converted into a B-52 missile carrier and CMCA. When the money suddenly started to run out, they closed SMSA, as the most bespontovy.

              https://warspot.ru/12376-na-zamenu-stratosfernoy-kreposti
    3. +3
      17 January 2019 10: 31
      you, in my opinion, in vain f-117 low value.
      F-117 was quite normal, as for an attack aircraft with guided weapons, it flew.
      And outwardly, at that time it looked just fantastic, they shot movies, they all watched with their mouths open, some kind of spaceship was right.
      And the combat use of the f-117 is more than successful - one accidentally shot down by thousands of difficult sorties.
      the price for such a specific aircraft was not very high, it was 111 million. So it was intended to perform specific complex tasks.
      it is clear that the 5th generation has become better
    4. +2
      17 January 2019 13: 27
      Quote: Magic Archer
      In fact, it is quite normal. Mattresses have money. And they spend it as they want. As a run-in technology, it is not bad at all. Remember the first-born stealth technology F-117. It was expensive, poor in appearance, it had few weapons and flew extremely mediocre. And then what happened!? The first generation 5 planes were born! And you can’t call them unsuccessful anymore! So, it remains to make a conclusion — we would have their problems recourse


      They will run it in, see it, consider the advantages and disadvantages, make "Arleigh Burke - II" taking into account the mistakes on Zamvolta, and launch it in a series of fifty pieces.
  3. +14
    17 January 2019 06: 50
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Mattresses have no money for a long time - since 1971, when the USA abandoned the gold standard

    and our ruble is secured by the country's gold reserves, etc. but nobody needs it.
    and paper wrappers, which can be printed as many as you like, have scored all countries in their gold and foreign exchange reserves. why??
    1. +4
      17 January 2019 19: 33
      This is partly justified historically, partly economically, partly by military force.
      In 1960, the US share in world GDP was about 40%. In 1944, at the time of the formation of the Bretton Woods system, and shortly after the Second World War, the US economy, so I think, accounted for more than half of world GDP. In addition, the US fleet (+ Britons) almost completely ruled the seas, and, accordingly, most of the world's freight traffic.
      The US national debt in 1950 amounted to 94% of GDP. But:
      a) Behind there was a war, which is a costly affair.
      b) There was economic growth after a small post-war recession. In 1950, the growth was 8,7%, in 1951 - 8% (in fact, this is the fastest growth of the US economy in the entire post-war period). And this growth was not "dubious". Those. it was not ensured by the growth of any financial assets, not by an increase in the share of services, and not by taking drugs and prostitutes into account in GDP.
      c) Markets of the whole world have opened before the USA
      By 1960, the US public debt was reduced to 54% of GDP, by 1970 - to 36%. At the same time, the US national debt was needed by the Fed for the operational regulation of the money supply. In the same 90s, Alan Greenspan did not allow to lower the national debt to zero, as this would block the possibility of open market operations for the Fed.
      In addition, the United States pursued a more balanced and cynical policy and did not use dollar assets as an instrument of sanctions. To block part of the bonds belonging to a "country that does not like" or freeze the accounts of a "country that does not like" are already relatively modern inventions and not of great intelligence.
      Naturally, under such conditions, everyone believed in the dollar, believed in American assets and were ready to use it, the dollar, as a universal and reliable means of settlement.
      Currently, the US share in world GDP is 23% and this is at par. If we take PPP, i.e. Given that many currencies are underestimated, the situation may be even less pleasant for the United States. For example, PPP GDP in China exceeds US GDP. The growth of the US economy is 2-2,5% per annum at near-zero interest rates (and this is without question to the methods of calculation). The trade balance has been starkly negative since the late 1990s. Well, somersaults of American diplomacy with blocking and seizure of accounts do not add confidence to the dollar.
      Under such conditions, it can be assumed that many countries will gradually abandon the dollar in international payments, as well as reduce the share of dollars in their gold reserves. Such a strong dominance of the dollar, at the moment, is rather ensured by the strength of habits and traditions (I am more inclined to believe that even at the macro level people’s behavior differs not in rationality and not in a real assessment of the situation, but in following their picture of the world) than in real, fundamental factors . This is not to say that the USA is a colossus with feet of clay. But it should be noted that in the US economy there are a number of serious problems. And the position of the United States and the dollar is far from as strong as 60-70 years ago.
      I answered your question?
      1. 0
        18 January 2019 01: 39
        Quote: dumkopff
        I answered your question?

        Your little educational program on the history of finance is not relevant.

        The dollar was replaced by the pound in international payments because at some point it began to fulfill the functions of money better. Until there is something that is better than the dollar, is it good or bad - the situation will not change. In particular, it now seems established that the currency of the second largest economy in the world - the Eurozone - does not dispute the role of the dollar, and the prerequisites for changes in this matter are not visible.
        1. +1
          18 January 2019 04: 39
          Well, not visible, so not visible.
  4. +3
    17 January 2019 07: 18
    Summarizing all the above, it cannot be excluded that the destroyers Zamvolt are waiting for the fate of the Virginia-class nuclear missile cruisers, which the Americans wrote off much earlier than the expected time limit.

    As technology demonstrators, one figs will come in handy for America. In our country, alas, in general, at least any destroyers from the collapse of the USSR are not being built in principle (well, yes, supposedly "Leader" and all that, but these are really just words - at least in the next 10 years, I would not expect our destroyers. .. and what to expect there? 3-4 units, as always? one thing for each fleet?).
    1. +1
      17 January 2019 07: 40
      As technology demonstrators, one fig. America’s locks come in handy.

      what stupidity. Usually, the cost of such "demonstrations" is the reason for the Senate hearings in the US Congress. Therefore, the military is frantically looking for options for using what has already been built. Unlike the idolaters of the American supergenius in the countries of the former USSR, the Americans themselves understand that the Zumwalt turned out to be an expensive and ineffective toy. And I agree with the author that most likely they will be written off earlier
    2. +3
      17 January 2019 09: 32
      When Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, Commander-in-Chief of the Navy of the Russian Federation, announced in 2009 that a destroyer destroyer of a new project would be laid down in Russia no later than 2012, the article Promising for the Russian Navy destroyer - Fantasize began to walk on American resources like Encyclopedia of safety?
    3. 0
      17 January 2019 11: 37
      Quote: Kuroneko
      We, alas, in general, at least some destroyers from the collapse of the USSR are not built in principle

      Frigate Gorshkov is equal in capabilities and combat potential to a destroyer and certainly he is much more effective and more powerful in arsenal than the destroyer Sarych. At the same time, Super-Gorshkov is being developed, which will also be a destroyer in terms of displacement.
      As for the Leader, then, yes, in the coming years 10 we are unlikely to see him.
      Quote: Kuroneko
      As technology demonstrators, one fig. America’s locks come in handy.

      Apparently yes, since with Tikonderoger and Berkov, mattresses can afford such research and expenses that the whole world pays for, including us.
    4. +5
      17 January 2019 11: 54
      Quote: Kuroneko
      Summarizing all the above, it cannot be excluded that the destroyers Zamvolt are waiting for the fate of the Virginia-class nuclear missile cruisers, which the Americans wrote off much earlier than the expected time limit.

      As technology demonstrators, one figs will come in handy for America. In our country, alas, in general, at least any destroyers from the collapse of the USSR are not being built in principle (well, yes, supposedly "Leader" and all that, but these are really just words - at least in the next 10 years, I would not expect our destroyers. .. and what to expect there? 3-4 units, as always? one thing for each fleet?).

      It’s possible to find an awkward snake volvo as much as you like, but nevertheless it is a full-fledged combat unit. And our Leader is a full-fledged layout, planed from logs.
  5. lot
    -5
    17 January 2019 07: 49
    What a contrast! Americans do not need the latest Zumwalt, and we got hold of 34 - kami from Laos.
    1. +3
      17 January 2019 07: 55
      and we got hold of 34 kami from Laos.

      in your alternate reality should these thirty fours go to the army?
      1. lot
        -6
        17 January 2019 08: 07
        No, a non-analytical propaganda article. do not dissemble. Zumwalt is created by brains. Alternative reality - the last blockbuster about Koshkin.
        1. +5
          17 January 2019 08: 15
          No, a non-analytical propaganda article. do not dissemble. Zumwalt is created by brains. Alternative reality - the last blockbuster about Koshkin.

          you should start using them too. Because in the topic about the zumvolt, for some reason you dragged your bardherd on the topic of T-34 tanks and designer Koshkin. Then we are waiting for "news" from you about the Crimean bridge and the pension reform.
          1. lot
            -1
            17 January 2019 08: 17
            Comment accepted.
        2. 0
          April 6 2019 18: 13
          Sometimes a blockbuster about Koshkin works better than Zumvolt. Was the USSR defeated by the squadrons of Berkov and Tikenderog? No, the Soviet Union was ruined for the most part by propaganda that everything is cooler in the Holy West, etc. What is the role of Hollywood? No matter how important. Investments in the blockbuster will pay off, plus a propaganda effect, and all three of the deadlocks will be sucking money from the budget for 15 years and will be scrapped. Now, unfortunately, fights are going on at the forefront mainly for the minds, and in this war a blockbuster is needed. And military equipment is needed in order to avoid the temptation to resolve the issue by force.
          1. lot
            0
            April 7 2019 20: 09
            Thank you.
            Yes, Ilyich wrote that in general. Damn them, these Zumwalt, we will watch a movie ☺☺
            But then we know ..
  6. +2
    17 January 2019 08: 21
    Quote: Rurikovich
    If there was an IVS, this would not be ...

    An amazing point of view for you.
  7. 0
    17 January 2019 09: 32
    And the author does not take into account crises in free-market management models that occur every few years?
  8. -2
    17 January 2019 10: 10
    As Churchill said: "If you want to ruin the country - give it a cruiser [or better three]" (C) laughing
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. +2
    17 January 2019 10: 18
    Zamvolt's problem is that the classic is unfinished.
    According to the idea, the ship has great potential, like a new platform, but this potential is not something that is not used, not even started.
    The main feature of the ship in the field of armaments - on it are launchers not MK41, but new MK57 launchers.
    They are noticeably larger in size and allow the use of much more powerful and long-range missiles than in the MK41.
    One of the problems of MK41, for example, is the use of cells for missile defense, specifically cm-3.
    The rocket’s energy capabilities are limited by the size of the cell, therefore, it is difficult to use them against ICBMs, for example, and makes them go to great tricks and squeeze out everything that is possible from cm-3 missiles.
    And with MK57 cells, this problem is much easier to solve due to the simple increase in the rocket’s energy capabilities. Similarly with air defense - additional energy capabilities for cm-6, for example, this and a large height, and the use of gas-dynamic rudders, long range and available overload, improved GOS, a large warhead (or even several blocks in the final section to increase the probability of hitting to the target) and so on
    The second possibility of using the cells is to use them for relatively inexpensive correctable versions of the MLRS shells - four per cell for supporting the landing force with a range of 120-200 km, the cells allow direct launch with their own engines.
    The new cells also allow the development of long-range anti-ship missiles, although the latter is not really needed by the Americans, and the Kyrgyz Republic is for striking the ground with a much greater range than the Tomahawks.
    But no one does this, the Zamvolty remained at half development, not a single new rocket has been developed and is not being developed for their cells, they simply adapted the existing ESSMs to new cells, which is just laughter for chickens.
    Until they begin to develop new missiles under the MK57, the Zavolty will remain an expensive absurdity.
    1. +2
      17 January 2019 12: 08
      And what about the launch of the MK57 does not allow the use of an arsenal of missiles from the launch of the MK41?
      What is the problem. We put more (longer) launchers, and not smaller ones.
      That's right, "For growth."
      1. 0
        17 January 2019 12: 24
        allow.
        but really the control system is only under the ECM if I am not mistaken.
        The thing is different - the use of missiles from MK41 does not allow the ship to realize the capabilities laid down, with such missiles it is inferior to that of Arly Burke at least in terms of number of launchers.
        1. +2
          17 January 2019 12: 30
          Arly Burke guard aircraft carriers. Plus, sometimes they are sent to strike
          Tomahawks along the shore for stationary purposes.
          And the Zumvolts are loners. Their low ESR will allow them to sneak up on some
          to a Chinese frigate or destroyer and deliver a preemptive strike to RCC. And go to the ocean
          back. It is an achievable task.
          1. +2
            17 January 2019 14: 28
            Quote: voyaka uh
            And the Zumvolts are loners. Their low ESR will allow them to sneak up on some
            to a Chinese frigate or destroyer and deliver a preemptive strike to RCC.

            Alexei, well, don’t :) :))))))) Any US Navy ship will go unnoticed by a Chinese frigate or destroyer, as long as it remains behind the radio horizon - if it has at least 100500 kilometers of EPR, they will not see it, the curvature of the earth will not will allow :)))
            And the reconnaissance aircraft will see both Zamvolt and Burke, there will not be much difference
            1. +1
              17 January 2019 17: 52
              I do not think that Chinese reconnaissance aircraft will be allowed to reign in the Pacific.
              They will be pressed to the shores. Americans, as you know, very carefully monitor
              dominance in the air.
              And then, without reconnaissance aircraft, - as I described.
              Rocket-to-ship missile combat, where Zumvolt’s radio stealth will be an advantage.
              1. +3
                17 January 2019 18: 00
                Quote: voyaka uh
                They will be pressed to the shores. Americans, as you know, very carefully monitor
                dominance in the air.

                I know. Only here is the question, if the USA has air supremacy, then why should they creep up to the frigate? :)))) They will drown him with aviation and they will not need Zamwalt here
                1. 0
                  17 January 2019 18: 09
                  It is impossible to solve all problems with deck aviation. And Russia,
                  with its small number of aircraft carriers, it knows better than others.
                  Americans also guessed that RCC is a good help for
                  operations at sea. Moreover, China has concentrated large
                  efforts for the potential destruction of aircraft carriers, including even BR.
                  It took America some time to develop LRASM, but, like, they managed to
                  before the looming maritime conflict in the Far East.
                  With three Zumvolt missile cruisers.
                  1. +3
                    17 January 2019 19: 02
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    It is impossible to solve all problems with deck aviation.

                    You already decide somehow, then you have dominance in the air, then you can’t solve all the problems :))))) If the US AB is nearby, then banging a frigate is a matter of the strength of three hours and 4-6 airplanes, what’s so difficult?
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    Americans also guessed that RCC is a good help for
                    operations at sea

                    That's right, and they handed over the LRASM, which goes on 900 + km and which does not need any Zvolvt - anti-ship missiles can be used on the detection range of surface targets with reinforced US air patrols. That is, if the target is detected, it will be in the reach of the LRASM. Why is there a trough-Zamvolt?
                    1. 0
                      17 January 2019 19: 13
                      Indeed, why the country needs three high-speed rocket
                      long-range cruisers
                      cruise missiles?
                      Right, awkward somehow ... laughing
                      1. +1
                        18 January 2019 13: 03
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Indeed, why the country needs three high-speed rocket
                        long-range cruisers
                        cruise missiles?

                        Alas, neither you nor the Americans themselves know about this. Well, the Zamvolts do not fit into the American concept of the Navy from the word "in any way." And they do not fit into any reasonable concept either. Pointless with AUG, useless alone
                      2. 0
                        18 January 2019 13: 14
                        You can describe and analyze in detail and in an interesting way.
                        naval battles of the past.
                        Imagine a sea and air collision between
                        Americans and Chinese in the Western Pacific
                        already happened. Conventional (aggravate their goals
                        regional conflict by radiation and nuclear destruction?).
                        And imagine that in addition to the 5-6 AUG, the Americans’s help is
                        3 Zumvolt missile cruisers attacking Chinese squadrons.
                        Hand on heart, they will be so unnecessary, meaningless
                        and unnecessary?
                        Or just subjective antipathy to ships of a sharply unusual
                        appearance overpowers common sense?
                      3. +2
                        18 January 2019 18: 57
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        And imagine that in addition to the 5-6 AUG, the Americans’s help is
                        3 Zumvolt missile cruisers attacking Chinese squadrons.
                        Hand on heart, they will be so unnecessary, meaningless
                        and unnecessary?

                        They will be completely superfluous, meaningless and unnecessary, because with the funds spent on their construction, it was possible to build the 6 Arly Berkov or the Virginia nuclear submarine, which in such a situation would be much more useful.
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Or just subjective antipathy to ships of a sharply unusual
                        appearance overpowers common sense?

                        What they just did not reproach me for :))))))
                      4. +1
                        18 January 2019 21: 11
                        "for their construction, it was possible to build 6 Arlie Berks" ////
                        ----
                        This argument could be significant if the Americans had
                        LACK OF ARLEY BERKOV. But they have an EXCESS of Arly Burkov.
                        All AUGs are fully provided with them. Superfluous then throw to Syria
                        throw the tomahawks then tie up in aegis to create
                        BRDS interception network (the most foggy version
                        use).
                        It would be foolish for the Americans to go down Arleigh Burke
                        and do not try to create a new type of ship.
                        Which is Zumvolt.
                        Need to look forward a bit? By the way, I remind you
                        that Zumvolt’s crew is only 150 people.
                        Two times less than that of Burke. And that means that
                        in terms of operating costs, both types are approximately the same.
                        ----
                        Americans also have a conveyor belt with Virginia
                        to envy. There is no shortage of submarines.
                      5. +1
                        19 January 2019 00: 59
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        This argument could be significant if the Americans had
                        LACK OF ARLEY BERKOV. But they have an EXCESS of Arly Burkov.

                        Who told you such nonsense?
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        All AUGs are fully provided with them. Superfluous then throw to Syria
                        throw the tomahawks then tie up in aegis to create
                        BRDS interception network (the most foggy version
                        use).

                        Let’s still somehow study in our leisure time why the US destroyers are needed at all.
                        I can’t imagine why you got the idea that Berks are needed ONLY to escort AUG. They are needed not only for the AUG, but also for all the other tasks that are set for surface rocket-artillery ships of 1 rank.
                        In this case, Berkov today 66. That is, on 6 ships on the 1 aircraft carrier. A minimum is needed for 5, that is, it turns out that for everything else there are only 11 ships of this class. In other words, the US Navy is short of Arly Burks, but there is no surplus of them.
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        It would be foolish for the Americans to go down Arleigh Burke
                        and do not try to create a new type of ship.
                        Which is Zumvolt.

                        They tried it. Such .... nonsense turned out :)))))
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        By the way, I remind you
                        that Zumvolt’s crew is only 150 people.
                        Twice less than Burke

                        By the way, let me remind you that the functional of Zamvolt is approximately half smaller than Arly Burke. Zamvolt really can’t work either as a PLO ship or as an air defense ship. And to measure the cost of maintaining a ship by the number of its crew is a complete bad manners. In your opinion, the cost of operating a police helicopter and F-22 is the same, on the grounds that there is only one pilot there and there? lol
                      6. 0
                        19 January 2019 01: 26
                        Destroyers are needed specifically for the protection of the AUG. And they are quite enough.
                        By the way, where did you get the number five? belay
                        Usually the figure is 2-3. And one cruiser.
                        And for other, independent tasks, it is Cruisers.
                        Also ships of the first rank, but larger.
                        So they were built. wink envy of enemies smile . Until
                        Little. To break in a lot of revolutionary technical innovations.

                        "And to measure the costs of maintaining a ship by its number
                        the crew is a complete bad manners "////
                        ----
                        This is bad manners in Russia with its small salaries for military personnel.
                        But not in America, where the military is paid a lot, as during service,
                        and then retired.
                        For your reference: salaries and pensions of contract soldiers account for half of the US gigantic military budget.
                        For this reason, crew reduction is one of the main requirements.
                        Pentagon to ship designers.
                      7. +1
                        19 January 2019 17: 46
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Destroyers are needed specifically for the protection of the AUG. And they are quite enough.
                        By the way, where did you get the number five?

                        The minimum number of such ships for a "standard" AUG
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Usually the figure is 2-3. And one cruiser.

                        In peacetime :))) In the military MNF, 6 aircraft carriers, 2 battleships, 16 cruisers, 40 destroyers and FRG destroyers and 16 destroyers and URO frigates not considered were deployed off the coast of Iraq
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        And for other, independent tasks, it is Cruisers.

                        But the Americans, having completely curtailed the program for creating cruisers, do not agree with you, they considered that they could build destroyers that could cope with such tasks
                        And then - according to its capabilities, Zumvolt is much further from the cruiser than Arly Burke.
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        This is bad manners in Russia with its small salaries for military personnel.
                        But not in America, where the military is paid a lot, as during service,
                        and then retired.

                        M-dya. You obviously could not master the example I cited. Not surprised - any arguments that don't suit you bounce off you
                        Again. The cost of one hour of F-16 flight is THREE lower than that of F-22. And the pilot is alone.
                      8. 0
                        19 January 2019 21: 58
                        With arguments about the number of Arly Berkov, the user of the Town Hall dealt better than me. I will not duplicate it.
                        Regarding the creation of task forces: "One Zumvolt and 2 Virginias" - too.
                        This is perfect, what you need. I suggested something similar ("my submarines are subordinate to Zumvolt") in a dialogue with another opponent.
                        It turned out: the Americans overheard
                        my "brilliant" thoughts laughing
                        ---
                        About the crew of the ships. The analogy with aviation is irrelevant here.
                        The cost of salaries of crews of ships - a huge problem of the Navy
                        America. Therefore, on the newest Zumvolts, he is 150 people,
                        and on the latest LCS, there are 50 people at all funny (with the addition of more
                        3 dozen specialists in systems).
                        And this is a trend (as the Chukchi used to say wink ).
                        All future ships will be a mixture of Zumvoltov and LCS
                        (What a horror!). But how many interesting discussions on VO!
                        It was extremely interesting, as always, to discuss with you hi
                        drinks
                      9. 0
                        20 January 2019 11: 04
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        With arguments about the number of Arly Berkov, the user of the Town Hall dealt better than me

                        I didn’t do it at all :))))
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Regarding the creation of task forces: "One Zumvolt and 2 Virginias" - too.
                        This is perfect, what you need.

                        Read what Zamvolt was originally intended for and where it all came to.
                        The operational group of the specified composition is a bullshit, since it, in principle, cannot operate in the zone of enemy aviation - they will find and drown, Zamvolt is almost powerless in terms of air defense, slightly better than the BOD 1155. Such a group is no less meaningless in the coverage area of ​​American aviation, since in this case the presence of individual ships outside the AUG is justified only by the targets of a long-range radar patrol, which Zamvolt cannot perform, due to the lack of an appropriate radar. Also, "Zamvolt" practically does not add anything to the capabilities of "Virginias", that is, it cannot somehow assist them in battle - in fact, its presence only unmasks the nuclear submarine (since the formation of such a group will not be a secret from the enemy, American documents not only the Town Hall reads)
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        About the crew of the ships. The analogy with aviation is irrelevant here.

                        Very relevant, since you do not take into account the cost of servicing the ship itself. Suppose the average salary of a US sailor is 10 000 dollars / month (this does not happen, but let's say) For the year, 150 people of Zamvolta will receive 18 million dollars. 337 people of Burke - 40,4 million.
                        But Burke’s annual service is 25 million, that is, + the cost of his crew = 65,4 million. And at Zamvolt, the cost of a life cycle is indicated in 4 billion, which, when divided by 40 years, amounts to 100 million dollars per year. Assuming that crew costs are already sitting in this amount, we get that Burke, despite the much larger crew costs 64,5% of Zamvolt :)))))
                        In fact, given the fact that the salary of US sailors (average crew) well, that’s never 10 pieces of greenery - the difference is even steeper, and not in favor of Zamvolt
                      10. +1
                        20 January 2019 11: 19
                        Well, okay ... I was interested in your calculations on tactics.
                        Here's an example: boiling sea and air battles in the Pacific Ocean. Chinese aircraft from the coast and aircraft carriers are continuously attacking American AUGs. Those fight back. Busy. Meanwhile, the Chinese squadrons - frigates, corvettes, divided into groups (including submarines), broke into the vast expanses of the ocean.
                        Chinese aviation does not get there - far ...
                        How to meet them?
                        Why not Zumvoltam armed with LRASMmi do this? Air, of course, is controlled by American AWACS from bases (and not from aircraft carriers). They direct the Zumvolts to the Chinese who have broken through.
                      11. 0
                        20 January 2019 12: 01
                        In the real world, and not spheroconic, the probability of meeting Zumvolt with an enemy aircraft on the high seas (starting miles from 300-400 from the coastline) is about 0.
                      12. 0
                        20 January 2019 14: 31
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        In the real world, and not spheroconic, the probability of meeting Zumvolt with an enemy aircraft on the high seas (starting miles from 300-400 from the coastline) is about 0.

                        Why would he stealth there in this case? :)))))
                      13. 0
                        20 January 2019 15: 25
                        Stealth - for much later detection by radar of enemy ships smile
                      14. 0
                        20 January 2019 15: 53
                        And not only ships. Any aircraft will have exactly the same huge problems of detecting Zumvolt with its fishing boat signature among tens of thousands of tankers, ships, boats and other floating trifles scurrying in the ocean. In order to accurately detect, identify and even point out RCC, it must will approach at distances from which Zumvolt’s air defense will be uniquely shot down. The same problems will be with the much less powerful GOS of enemy RCCs issued by Zumvolt.


                        Zumvolt is the same F-35/22 in aviation ... first saw, first shot
                      15. 0
                        20 January 2019 14: 31
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Meanwhile, the Chinese squadrons - frigates, corvettes, divided into groups (including submarines), broke into the vast expanses of the ocean.

                        Let's say :))))
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Why not Zumvoltam armed with LRASMmi do this? Air, of course, is controlled by American AWACS from bases (and not from aircraft carriers). They direct the Zumvolts to the Chinese who have broken through.

                        Can. Only now Arly Burke will cope with this task much better (they have more conventional ammunition), since in these conditions (shooting LRASM from long distances) neither stealth nor the miracle of the Zwolt cannon bring any benefit. That is, the same task will be performed by Arly Burke. And the second Arly Burke (because you can build 1 on 2 Zvolvt) will help AUG fight the Chinese aircraft
                      16. +2
                        20 January 2019 15: 33
                        Stealth - to go unnoticed to the enemy’s SHIPS, and miracle guns to finish off damaged ships, saving rockets.
                        In general, apart from the thesis: "many, many, many Berks will solve all the problems," I did not see any arguments about the "failure" of the Zumvolts. We made three of them. Exactly how much is needed for the experimental batch. And they are flexible enough to change their tactics and weapons according to the situation in the world.
                      17. 0
                        20 January 2019 17: 28
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Stealth - to go unnoticed to the ships of the enemy

                        Alexey, for this stealth is not needed from the word "at all", because the radar of one ship detects another only within the line of sight.
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        In general, apart from the thesis: "many, many, many Berks will solve all the problems," I did not see any arguments about the "failure" of the Zumvolts.

                        Well, no one forces you to read my comments :))) Actually, everything is written there
                        And if it’s still not obvious to you that Zamvolt, losing to an ordinary Burke in air defense / anti-aircraft defense but standing much more expensive, has only one advantage (stealth) which he simply cannot realize within the framework of the US Navy doctrine (there are no such tactical situations, at which this skill would be in demand), then ...
                      18. 0
                        20 January 2019 19: 02
                        And if it’s still not obvious to you that Zamvolt, losing to an ordinary Burke in air defense / anti-aircraft defense but standing much more expensive, has only one advantage (stealth) which he simply cannot realize within the framework of the US Navy doctrine




                        Replace the words Zamvolt with F-22/35 or Sivulf / Virginia in the text, and Burke with F15 / 16 or Los Angeles)


                        the Americans could rivet their f / 15/16 or Moose further ... because they coped with everything anyway. But for some reason they switched to f / 22/35 and Virginia .... and competitors are still chugging to get closer to f / 15/16 and Moose. Well, to slander about the 5th generation) .... This is called being ahead of the whole planet not even a step in this regard
                      19. 0
                        20 January 2019 11: 55
                        "
                        Zamvolt "is almost powerless in terms of air defense, slightly better than the BOD 1155.




                        Read at your leisure what thread is about SM-6.


                        which "Zamvolt" cannot perform, due to the lack of an appropriate radar



                        Read at your leisure what thread is about AN / SPY-3 and about Zumvolt's BIOS.



                        Also, "Zamvolt" practically does not add anything to the capabilities of "Virginias", that is, it cannot somehow assist them in battle -




                        Read documents sometimes.) Virginia is included in the group to fulfill the functions of the PLO.
                      20. 0
                        20 January 2019 14: 52
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Read at your leisure what thread is about SM-6.

                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Read at your leisure what thread is about AN / SPY-3 and about Zumvolt's BIOS.

                        Town Hall, I explain on the fingers :))))) In order to effectively control the air situation, you need 2 radar - decimeter and centimeter (or even millimeter, but we will say centimeter) ranges. The decimeter sees very well in the distance, the centimeter sees low-flying targets. but in the distance - so-so.
                        So, we resolved this issue by Frigate and Podkat - the 2 radar for various purposes, which is why our EM, BOD, and RKR were seen well everywhere. Americans have long tried to use decimeter radar for everything. It turned out so-so, and then the British and their Daring went along the same path (combining decimeter and centimeter ranges) in general, the United States decided to make 2 radar for its ships - decimeter and centimeter.
                        However, something went wrong with the new decimeter. And Zamvolt received ONLY a centimeter range. So near he sees perfectly, low-flying targets - excellent, but in the distance - from case to case and generally not good. Formally, AN / SPY-3 has a detection range under 400 km, but this is in ideal weather conditions, which are not always the case.
                        That is why initially they put ONLY ESSM - AN / SPY-3 on it further 50 km target designation does not guarantee. And the same is true for CM-6, that is, Zamvolt, by itself, can use the capabilities of CM-6 somewhere in percent by 30% :))))
                        And they put them on it simply because SM-6 in theory can receive command from other ships, that is, Zamvolt is such a super-expensive barge for the ammunition for the destroyer Arly Burke :)))))))))))))))) ))))
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Read documents sometimes.) Virginia is included in the group to fulfill the functions of the PLO.

                        Super :)))) Town Hall, you yourself understood what you wrote? :)))) That is, you are talking about a separate group, and when it comes to its purpose, it turns out that Virginia needs to be distracted by Zamvolt's PLO? :)) )))
                      21. +1
                        20 January 2019 15: 20
                        For the first time, an American warship will be equipped with a radar with an active phased array — six flat phased arrays providing a three-dimensional view of the air and surface conditions in the azimuth range of 360 ° around the destroyer. But the full benefits of AN / SPY-3 are manifested in the conduct of combat guided missiles. The fact is that all modern ships, even those equipped with the Aegis BIUS, can simultaneously fire only a limited number of targets, since each missile launched needs a separate signal from the target’s radar. There are three such radars on the Orly Burke type destroyer, four on the Ticonderoga cruiser, and only one on the 1164 Atlant cruiser. At the same time, no more missiles can be in the air than there are target illumination radars on the ship. Zamvolt, equipped with the latest AN / SPY-3 phased array radar, is free from these restrictions. Active phased arrays AN / SPY-3 consist of thousands of radiating elements grouped into several hundred transceiver modules. Each such module allows you to form a narrow beam to study a specific quadrant of space. The Zamvolta radar is equivalent to hundreds of conventional radars, and the capabilities of computing systems exceed all possible needs. Thus, Zamvolt can simultaneously bombard hundreds of air targets, ballistic and cruise missiles, firing its missiles as if from a machine gun. In addition to the functions of viewing, tracking and target recognition, the active phased arrays AN / SPY-3 are designed for direct control of the ship’s weapons: programming missile system autopilots, target illumination for semi-active Standard-2 and ESSM anti-aircraft missile homing heads, and artillery fire control. Also, AN / SPY-3 is able to perform the functions of a navigation radar, automatically scan the sea surface in search of floating mines and periscopes of submarines, conduct counter-battery combat and electronic reconnaissance. One multi-functional AN / SPY-3 radar will be able to replace several types of radars used today on ships of the US Navy, including the Aegis system AN / SPY-1 radar, A / S target radar AN / SPG-62, navigation radar AN / SPS-67, artillery control radar AN / SPQ-9. With a ton of advantages, AN / SPY-3 has one drawback - its extremely high cost.
                        Source: http://www.modernarmy.ru/article/316/ddg-1000-zumvalt © Portal "Contemporary Art
                      22. 0
                        20 January 2019 17: 20
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        One multi-functional AN / SPY-3 radar will be able to replace several types of radars used today on ships of the US Navy, including the Aegis system AN / SPY-1 radar, A / SPG-62 target illumination radars

                        Alas, this is an advertising sophistry, because initially Zamvolt wanted to equip AN / SPY-3 and AN / SPY-6 (decimeter). Moreover, if AN / SPY-3 really could replace AN / SPY-1, he would have replaced it with the new Arly Burke. Alas and ah, none of this happens.
                        In general, the Town Hall, there are such facts:
                        1) For good visibility, the ship needs a decimeter radar - this is banal physics
                        2) Zamvolt was originally designed for two radars that should have been on it at the same time, but the decimeter did not work
                        3) Zamvolt at birth did not receive long-range missiles; only short ESSMs
                        4) AN / SPY-3 has not been distributed to other US destroyers
                        Well, if this is not enough for you to make an obvious conclusion, then let's part as friends :)))))
                      23. 0
                        20 January 2019 17: 37
                        Well, if this is not enough for you



                        No, not enough. Look at the design dates of Zumvolt and you will understand why initially there were 2 radars, but 1 remained. Progress does not stand still.


                        Distribution was not received for a very simple reason. Financial. To put such a radar on Burke, it is necessary to change both the power plant and the BIUS. In short, you need to build a new Zumvolt in Burke's case). For amers, this is a system-small-scale production of masterpieces and elements from them to "budget" series: F-22 / F35 ... Seawulf / Virginia ... do the same with B-2 / new strategist.


                        Long-range missiles did not receive at first for a number of reasons. At first, the concept of application. Initially, more work on the coast was envisaged. An electromagnetic gun and all that. So far, the concept of the long-range ocean patrol and the "fighter" NK has not been fused with the cannon. missiles. and 100 million for the modification of the radar for this task.
                      24. 0
                        20 January 2019 18: 09
                        Finance ... everywhere about finance ....


                        As part of the Hull / Radar Study, we analyzed three AMDR radar options with respect to their ability to satisfy the needs of the Naval Forces and compared with the AN / SPY-1D (V) radar on previous destroyers.


                        The AMDR radar version with a diameter of more than 6 m with an SPY + 30dB coefficient, which provides 1000 times better noise / signal ratio than AN / SPY-1D (V) radar, was recognized as optimal for the needs of the Naval Forces.


                        Options suitable for installation on DDG-51 destroyers provide significantly lower superiority over existing radars: SPY + 15 dB for AMDR with a diameter of 4,2 m (noise-to-signal ratio is 32 times better) and SPY + 11 dB for AMDR with a diameter of 3,6 m (the noise / signal ratio is 13 times better).


                        As part of the study, four versions of the new anti-aircraft / missile defense ship were analyzed in detail, two based on the DDG-1000 type destroyers and two based on the DDG-51 type destroyers.

                        A more expensive option based on the DDG-1000 involved the replacement of the main TSCE ASBU elements with Aegis ASBU elements and the use of AMDR radar with a diameter of 4,2 m and AN / SPY-3 radar.


                        The cheaper option involved replacing a smaller number of TSCE ASBU elements with Aegis ASBU elements and using a VSR + radar with a diameter of 3,6 m and AN / SPY-3 radar. The more expensive option based on DDG-51 also involved the use of AMDR radars with a diameter of 4,2 m and AN / SPY-3 radars, and the cheaper one, VSR + and AN / SPQ-9B radars. Both of the latter options involved the use of Aegis ASBUs.



                        The Navy concluded that the adaptation of TSCE ASBUs to the needs of integrated air defense / missile defense would be more expensive than in the case of Aegis, which already has a certain missile defense potential. Thus, the choice was made in favor of the destroyers type DDG-51.
                      25. +1
                        20 January 2019 15: 42
                        Super :)))) Town Hall, you yourself understood what you wrote? :)))) That is, you are talking about a separate group, and when it comes to its purpose, it turns out that Virginia needs to be distracted by Zamvolt's PLO? :)) )))




                        The main feature of Zamvolt (except for the most powerful electronics, radar and BIUS) is its stealthiness. Nobody will include another more "visible" surface ship in the group with it. Therefore, only nuclear submarines, which are engaged in PLO. The rest is himself. Something with surface ships, that with a few aircraft that hypothetically can fly to the middle of the Dnieper ... first saw, first shot ... Fifth generation in all its glory)
                      26. 0
                        20 January 2019 17: 22
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Nobody will group with him another more "visible" surface ship. Therefore, only the nuclear submarines, who are in charge of the PLO. The rest is himself

                        The idea is clear, but, due to the almost absent air defense, he can deal with "everything else" only where there is no enemy aircraft. And in such places, Arlie Burke can easily replace him.
                      27. 0
                        20 January 2019 18: 46
                        YOU have an idea for a fix with a "missing air defense". And build your whole theory on this erroneous assumption. Everything is normal with a Zumvolt with air defense. 380 km of range, coupled with its "invisibility" and rearmament on the SM-6 is more than enough for everything that walks and flies in areas where they want to apply it.


                        Due to the SPY-4 removal, SPY-3 radar is to have software modifications so as to perform a volume search functionality. Shipboard operators will be able to optimize the SPY-3 MFR for either horizon search or volume search.
                      28. 0
                        27 January 2019 14: 13
                        You consider everything to be a great war. And they have long been gone. Chasing aircraft carriers to all sorts of Syria is expensive and useless. But the Americans took and flashed around Syria with two ships. If the enemy does not have the right amount of aircraft, he allows a couple of Zamvolts to hit what is required without aircraft carriers.
                        And 5 more US Berks are simply not needed. And the industry must be fed. It has long been clear that for them, war is a way to make money, not spend it.
                      29. 0
                        19 January 2019 02: 09
                        At the same time, Berkov is 66 today. That is, 6 ships per 1 aircraft carrier. A minimum of 5 is needed, that is, it turns out that for everything else there are only 11 ships of this class. In other words, the US Navy is short of Arly Berks, but there is no surplus of them
                        .


                        I didn’t know that the United States constantly kept all 11 aircraft carriers at sea and 55 Berks with them) ... or did they keep an escort of 5 Berks at the berths and in repairs for the repaired aircraft carrier?) ... and where did this joke come from that every aircraft carrier 5 Berklv? ... Ticonderogs I suppose you have already removed from service?)
                      30. +1
                        19 January 2019 17: 47
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        I did not know that the United States kept all 11 aircraft carriers and 55 Berks with them constantly at sea).

                        Both of them have their own KOH. Such a concept, obviously, is unfamiliar to you, and you think that all 66 Berkovs are ready at any given time
                      31. 0
                        19 January 2019 18: 45
                        Well, naturally. Such concepts are only known to you. Like the standard composition of AUG).


                        Try to study 6th grade mathematics at your leisure with these introductory ... each "non-operational" aircraft carrier exempts 3-4 Burks from escort duties. Multiply by the average number of non-operational aircraft carriers and add them to those 22/33 (initially free from these duties) , multiply everything by KON and you will be happy)
                      32. 0
                        19 January 2019 20: 28
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        each "non-operational" aircraft carrier exempts 3-4 Burks from escort duties.

                        Well, let me teach you math. Waiting for your calculation :)))))
                      33. 0
                        19 January 2019 21: 27
                        The math is simple. For any KONE, 15-25 Berkov are left free of escort duties to perform tasks outside the AUG.
                      34. 0
                        20 January 2019 10: 46
                        THAT there is no calculation. Did not doubt it
                      35. 0
                        20 January 2019 11: 42
                        Do you have any other calculations?)
                      36. +1
                        19 January 2019 03: 16
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Indeed, why the country needs three high-speed rocket
                        long-range cruisers
                        cruise missiles?

                        Alas, neither you nor the Americans themselves know about this. Well, the Zamvolts do not fit into the American concept of the Navy from the word "in any way." And they do not fit into any reasonable concept either. Pointless with AUG, useless alone


                        Don't be so excited) ... In the US Navy's Fiscal 2019 filing, Zamwolt's role is defined as anti-surface ships and "invisible" ocean patrols with a group of Zamwolt himself and 2 Virginia attack submarines.
                      37. +1
                        19 January 2019 17: 49
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        In the application of the U.S. Navy for the 2019 fiscal year, the role of Zwamwalt

                        Naturally. Frankly, that we have created a rare nonsense, the Americans can’t, we have to come up with at least something. Just like with LCS
                      38. +1
                        19 January 2019 18: 52
                        Unfortunately, the American naval hawks probably missed your series of articles and are not particularly aware that they did nothing. Therefore, they allocate 2019 million evergreens for 89,7 to adapt ship systems to receiving SM-6 of which they want to buy 600 with a tail in the version and SAM and RCC.


                        They have not yet grown to your analytical level, and for some reason they believe that it is not worth chasing a whole AUG for every corvette across the expanses of the Pacific Ocean.
                      39. 0
                        19 January 2019 20: 28
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        therefore, they allocate 2019 89,7 million evergreens to adapt ship systems to receive SM-6 whom they want to buy 600 with a tail in the version and SAM and RCC.

                        Do you even understand that Zamvolty cannot use them on their own? :)))))
                      40. 0
                        19 January 2019 21: 17
                        And who will stop them from doing this?
                      41. 0
                        20 January 2019 10: 46
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        And who will stop them from doing this?

                        Lack of "long-range" radar.
                      42. 0
                        20 January 2019 11: 41
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        And who will stop them from doing this?

                        Lack of "long-range" radar.



                        And the men didn’t know) ... on Zumvolte the most advanced radar station so far created with a range of up to 380 km.
          2. +3
            17 January 2019 15: 22
            I’m afraid that from a radio horizon of a maximum of 40 km, even a fishing boat, not even a destroyer, will see a modern ship’s radar.
            Low ESR will help against airborne radars of aircraft and anti-ship missiles, especially in difficult jamming environments, and will make it difficult for an adversary to detect and classify and complicate the operation of GOS missiles.
            Yes, and RCC in Zamvoltov no.
            Again, for such a cowboy, the commander will be expelled from service without a pension, so that he would not risk a ship in vain, but did everything as it should for respectable people, call a friend and go aside.
            And from a friend a couple of F-18 squadrons with all sorts of Grolers will fly in and, without straining too much, will make Navskiy Shurk from the Chinese smile
          3. 0
            18 January 2019 04: 43
            voyaka uh (Alexey) Yesterday, 12: 30
            And go to the ocean
            back. It is an achievable task.

            especially go to the ocean laughing wishful thinking again?))
  11. +3
    17 January 2019 10: 34
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Quote: Magic Archer
    Mattresses have money.

    Mattresses have no money for a long time - since 1971, when the USA abandoned the gold standard Yes There are only paper wrappers that you can print as much as you like, for everyone else is afraid to say it and recognize lol The dollar keeps on this - on the bayonets of the American infantryman (sailor, pilot), and the whole world looks into pink skies and believes that this is the way it should ... If there were a TDF, this would not have happened ... feel

    Admit how many candy wrappers on a rainy day under the pillow lies?
  12. 0
    17 January 2019 11: 13
    Quote: Avior
    Zamvolt's problem is that the classic is unfinished.
    According to the idea, the ship has great potential, like a new platform, but this potential is not something that is not used, not even started.
    The main feature of the ship in the field of armaments - on it are launchers not MK41, but new MK57 launchers.
    They are noticeably larger in size and allow the use of much more powerful and long-range missiles than in the MK41.
    One of the problems of MK41, for example, is the use of cells for missile defense, specifically cm-3.
    The rocket’s energy capabilities are limited by the size of the cell, therefore, it is difficult to use them against ICBMs, for example, and makes them go to great tricks and squeeze out everything that is possible from cm-3 missiles.
    And with MK57 cells, this problem is much easier to solve due to the simple increase in the rocket’s energy capabilities. Similarly with air defense - additional energy capabilities for cm-6, for example, this and a large height, and the use of gas-dynamic rudders, long range and available overload, improved GOS, a large warhead (or even several blocks in the final section to increase the probability of hitting to the target) and so on
    The second possibility of using the cells is to use them for relatively inexpensive correctable versions of the MLRS shells - four per cell for supporting the landing force with a range of 120-200 km, the cells allow direct launch with their own engines.
    The new cells also allow the development of long-range anti-ship missiles, although the latter is not really needed by the Americans, and the Kyrgyz Republic is for striking the ground with a much greater range than the Tomahawks.
    But no one does this, the Zamvolty remained at half development, not a single new rocket has been developed and is not being developed for their cells, they simply adapted the existing ESSMs to new cells, which is just laughter for chickens.
    Until they begin to develop new missiles under the MK57, the Zavolty will remain an expensive absurdity.

    I agree with you. In the Netherlands, there were two air defense frigates "Jacob van Heemskerk" and "Witte de Wit" (sold to Chile), so as an option - use the first "Zamvolt" to support the landing, the other two - as ships of the far zone of the air defense of the ship formation ...
    1. +5
      17 January 2019 12: 18
      You are wrong about the ability of Zumwalt in long-range air defense. Physically, he cannot, because at the stage of program reduction, the SPY-3 decimeter radar was simply removed from it, only the fine SPY-4 centimeter radar remained. As a result, Zumwalt is able to perfectly cope with low-flying supersonic anti-ship missiles, but is absolutely helpless in long-range air defense. Therefore, he does not even have SM-3 and 2 on board, only ESSM and SM-6. As a result, he simply supplements the AUG and the Expeditionary Group, being able to do something that ArliBerki cannot do - protecting the compound from attacks by RCC, or working along the coast. Therefore, he is oriented toward fighting ships - as in theory, it will be incomparable in a duel situation with the exchange of volleys of anti-ship missiles, destroying them at the radio horizon.
      1. +1
        17 January 2019 15: 27
        the fact that the radar was cut is also a problem. in principle, you can add.
        But for now, you're right, only to support the landing and to shell the coast, and air defense systems only for defense against anti-ship missiles. As far as I know, even cm-6 is not therelol
        in general, they wanted the best, but for now it’s not very
  13. +1
    17 January 2019 11: 17
    Well tapericha Damantsev owes the author of the article to a duel. Firstly, it’s fashionable ento, and secondly, his beloved child was enchanted.
  14. 0
    17 January 2019 11: 37
    Perhaps ahead of his time, maybe they will bring to mind or not ...
  15. +5
    17 January 2019 12: 03
    Zumvolty not included in the AUG. And they are not going to ascribe to AUG.
    In normal non-war time, they are instructed to move around with lenses that increase
    EPR, as other ships see them on radar, like small fishing schooners.
    Zumvolts are now remaking from drummers along the coast into anti-convulsive ones.
    Add cells for new anti-ship missiles instead of one of the guns.
    He will be armed with approximately 120 missiles, instead of 80 now. Few? smile
    That's actually what it was necessary to write in the article.
    1. 0
      17 January 2019 15: 28
      Honestly, I’d better add MK41 instead of a gun for SAM missiles
  16. +1
    17 January 2019 13: 05
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Zumvolty not included in the AUG. And they are not going to ascribe to AUG.
    In normal non-war time, they are instructed to move around with lenses that increase
    EPR, as other ships see them on radar, like small fishing schooners.
    Zumvolts are now remaking from drummers along the coast into anti-convulsive ones.
    Add cells for new anti-ship missiles instead of one of the guns.
    He will be armed with approximately 120 missiles, instead of 80 now. Few? smile
    That's actually what it was necessary to write in the article.

    And what about the alteration? Whom will he protect? Will he roam alone across the seas and oceans? For that kind of money - a raider is very expensive .....
    1. +3
      17 January 2019 13: 20
      Do not defend, but attack. This is an attack ship.
      Why expensive? If he manages to fill up with his RCC a couple of enemy ships,
      then he will pay for himself.
      But is Peter the Great not so? Also - a loner with RCC.
      1. +1
        17 January 2019 15: 29
        Americans do not fight ships with ships, for this aviation. less risk, more reliable result
        1. 0
          17 January 2019 18: 00
          So it was before, to the generation of more long-range and modern anti-ship missiles.
          Lockheed received the first contract for LRASM
          Mass production began. And they are adapted to the launch cells of ships.
          Zumvolts are their most likely recipients in the fleet.
          1. 0
            17 January 2019 23: 55
            all the same, intelligence is needed, even taking into account the fact that the Lrasm missile is advanced.
            and this is AWAC and all that is attached.
            besides, it is much more convenient to use Lrasma to shoot from Arly Berkov, especially since at a range of application it doesn’t matter which ESR the ship has.
      2. +1
        17 January 2019 23: 09
        Quote: voyaka uh
        But is Peter the Great not so? Also - a loner with RCC.


        No. According to the terms of reference for the project, issued in 1972, the main task of the Orlan project cruisers was "to give combat stability to the forces of the fleet in remote areas of the seas and oceans." So this is a squadron ship.

        Quote: voyaka uh
        Why expensive? If he manages to fill up with his RCC a couple of enemy ships,
        then he will pay for himself.


        Yes? :) Count?
        Take frigates for example. The price is approximately a billion green. So for self-sufficiency Zumwalt needs to roll at least 4 frigates.
        Here are a couple of destroyers like Arly Burke - it's already closer, there is a unit price of under 2 billion. But, excuse me, Arleigh Burke himself and it can go down no worse :)

        But this accounting is not interesting to me. Tell me, how will he find that enemy ship "in the silence of the night", that is, in stealth mode? To get into the ship, you need to give the missile target designation. How?
        1. +1
          17 January 2019 23: 56
          LRASM is a curious rocket. It can be sent in the direction
          approximately the enemy squadron, and then it starts
          "combing the area" is completely autonomous.
          According to different algorithms. Or make spirals, or zigzag. When
          miss the ship, she makes a loop and returns with another
          side. If Zumvolt sends such missiles,
          the probability that they will fail / damage several ships
          quite high.
          1. 0
            18 January 2019 13: 39
            Quote: voyaka uh
            LRASM is a curious rocket. It can be sent in the direction
            approximately the enemy squadron, and then it starts
            "combing the area" is completely autonomous.
            According to different algorithms. Or make spirals, or zigzag


            What's so curious about that? This algorithm has been used for more than half a century in the Soviet heavy PKR-700 Granit. That's right - launching a target in azimuth and homing in the final section. LRASM has supposedly two homing channels only. And it never occurred to any Soviet engineer to write out turns and loops in the missile defense zone of a ship or a group of ships. Apparently, they were forbidden to chemically stimulate the thought process in the workplace. Totalitarian mode, what is already there :)
            And there have always been questions to this algorithm.
            1) nobody canceled the horizon. To aim at the ship, the rocket must rise to a great height, otherwise you can fly over the sea until the tanks are empty, without ever "seeing" anything. And after rising, the rocket will light up on air defense / missile defense radars. For the P-700, this danger was solved by the "flock" application algorithm and a large margin of mechanical strength. They don't write about LRASM.
            2) even to determine the azimuth at a distance of 800 km you need third-party target designation. If you just pull the rocket anyhow, you can blow it anyhow. But you need a very specific ship. For the P-700 and P-1000, a system of satellites and RLO aircraft was used. And then, no one planned to let a lone destroyer or cruiser into a free search on the ocean.
            3) The exact speed of LRASM is not advertised, but with a high degree of probability it will be "tomahawk" - about 800 km / h. The LRASMs advertise a range of 900 km. That is, it will fly to the goal for an hour. Calculate for yourself how far and how unpredictable a destroyer, say, can move during this time. Find her, combing the sea from a height of 20 meters?

            Just get me wrong, I am actually a supporter of the missile-carrying fleet and I believe that heavy anti-ship missiles are exactly what the future holds, but these are still squadron weapons for group combat within a complex military system. Not for "lonely ninjia". :)


            Quote: voyaka uh
            If Zumvolt sends such missiles,
            the probability that they will fail / damage several ships
            quite high.


            A modern ship can quite successfully cope with subsonic targets in the near air defense / missile defense zone. And in the group, using data exchange systems, it will also cope with a raid. Therefore, supersonic and hypersonic, complex trajectories and electronic warfare systems on board missiles. That is why in the USSR it was planned to use at least 100 anti-ship missiles (or anti-ship missiles and simulators) in a salvo to defeat AUG. And, notice (!) From different azimuths! Therefore, planes, boats with anti-ship missiles and ships with Granites and Volcanoes. It is unlikely that LRASM will be able to fundamentally change anything.

            Most likely, Zumwalt will be used exclusively in the "wars with the monkeys", or it will remain another "demonstrator of technologies" of which the US military-industrial complex has produced a lot over the past 20 years.
            1. +1
              18 January 2019 13: 52
              Everything that you wrote is interesting and detailed, about missiles, in no way
              linked to the final lines.
              1) If a major war breaks out, then everyone will be thrown into its "crucible"
              large ships, without thinking about their effectiveness.
              And the Zumvolts will have occasion to shoot power. And how much
              missiles will hit, but how many will be shot down - ... is unknown. Maybe,
              and some Chinese submarine torpedoed Zumvolt - war ...
              2) If there are "wars with monkeys", then they will shoot in the form of a battle
              training (like the Tomahawks in Syria recently. I didn’t want to offend at all
              Syrians, about monkeys - these are your words).
              3) And if there are no conflicts, then, yes, they will be technology demonstrators.
              1. 0
                18 January 2019 15: 28
                You still have to swim to the monkeys, but there are still problems with this.
              2. 0
                18 January 2019 16: 32
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Everything that you wrote is interesting and detailed, about missiles, in no way
                linked to the final lines.


                I agree with you on all three points.

                But, Zumwalt is a destroyer. This means ESF Squad Minor. That is not an artillery ship for squadron combat. And he did not succeed.
                1. 0
                  18 January 2019 21: 00
                  Destroyer? - mine is gone, torpedoes are also surface ships
                  rarely stocked. This term is already in history ... Today it means a warship of a certain displacement. And at Zumvolt it is far off scale
                  for destroyers. He is a natural cruiser. And converted to LRASMy and by
                  weapons will come in full compliance with the term "missile cruiser".
                  1. 0
                    21 January 2019 13: 51
                    Well, I deciphered: "NOT artillery ship. "It is clear that earlier they were torpedoes, but now they are missiles. :)
                    And yes, with a displacement there is definitely everything "nipapdetski" :) :) :)

                    In principle, yes, in its current form the Zumwalt is much more a cruiser than a destroyer. But here again, subtlety, in order to perform cruising functions, he must actively search for targets on his own. Well, you understand what a big cross it will put on his "stealth". Unless, of course, the cruising functions of Zumwalt are reduced to the role of an arsenal ship as part of a ship group under the control of the Aegis system.
                    1. +1
                      21 January 2019 15: 04
                      Well, here's a member of the forum Ratush found information that for 2019 he was allocated funds from the budget for "actions against enemy ships as part of an" inconspicuous group ", where, in addition to him, there are also 2 Virginia nuclear submarines.
                      And likely to direct a group at the enemy will be AWACS aircraft.
                      Of which many Americans.
                      1. 0
                        21 January 2019 20: 13
                        And the AWACS planes themselves will also be inconspicuous? :)
                        As I understand it, having spent wild money on three ships with no prospects, the United States will try to attach them at least somewhere. Well, let's see what they come up with :)
                      2. +2
                        21 January 2019 20: 47
                        And AWACS from whom to hide? Americans without
                        air supremacy over the expanses of oceans in general
                        do not start anything active on water.
                        And with the ships ... here is just the advantage of the recently criticized
                        modular approach: housing is just a platform for
                        quick-change weapons. Flying with a super gun?
                        - replace with RCC, flew with a railgun -
                        on the way lasers ... fellow there is a place, there is electricity.
                      3. 0
                        21 January 2019 21: 03
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        And AWACS from whom to hide? Americans without
                        air supremacy over the expanses of oceans in general
                        do not start anything active on water.


                        It depends on whom to do "face". Syria and Iraq, of course, will not do anything to the AWACS aircraft. Although there is no point in sending an "invisible group" against them. They can be shot from the barge. But some countries have high-altitude high-speed interceptors and anti-radar missiles.

                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        And with the ships ... here is just the advantage of the recently criticized modular approach: the hull is just a platform for
                        quick-change weapons.

                        And Zumwalt, it seems, is not modular. They just can not change anything. The cannon on the nose is not just installed tightly, there is a very cunning ammunition supply system, created for the miraculous projectile, at a price of a million per shot. This gun is generally unique, it cannot even shoot with Escaliburs.

                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Flying with a super gun? - replace it with anti-ship missiles, flew with a railgun - lasers are coming ... there is a place, there is electricity.


                        The guns are not replaced by rockets, they both stood on the deck and are worthless to anyone. And replacing them with rail guns or a combat laser will also fail, as I said, under them is an ammunition supply system.
                        And about electricity, too, is not a fact. Still, the ship was clamped at a price as much as it could and was unlikely to have provided for it a gigantic battery of capacitors for rail gang.
                      4. +2
                        21 January 2019 23: 31
                        Zumvolty - modular. The second gun was removed along with the AZ and inserted
                        nose block of cells for RCC. Such a plan. And there is a place for capacitors.
                        Sumvolt and scolded that "a lot of empty space inside, inefficient layout ..."

                        "It depends on whom to do" fas "." ////
                        ----
                        They now have only one "fas" - China. His fleet is catching up fast
                        American. And some major "skirmish" for influence in the western part
                        The Pacific, in my opinion, is inevitable.
                2. 0
                  27 January 2019 14: 22
                  This is such a stupid term for us - the destroyer. Which now does not mean nichrome, except for the dibilism of those who drag it into the future. And they have it destoroyer, which is somehow much more specific and at the present time.
        2. 0
          17 January 2019 23: 56
          depending on which frigate.
          the usual 300-400 million ....
          1. 0
            18 January 2019 13: 39
            I took the most expensive :)
      3. +2
        18 January 2019 13: 04
        Quote: voyaka uh
        But is Peter the Great not so? Also - a loner with RCC.

        Not at all :)))))
  17. +1
    17 January 2019 13: 45
    They, it seems, were made under the support of the airborne assault, the railgun did not work out, the active-reactive-guided projectiles turned out to be excessively expensive. And it became meaningless without the main weapon. And in the conditions of emphasis on the creation of stealth weapons - they worked out one of the options, just. Expensive, of course. But the leader of scientific and technological progress needs, as without this.
  18. 0
    17 January 2019 14: 36
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Do not defend, but attack. This is an attack ship.
    Why expensive? If he manages to fill up with his RCC a couple of enemy ships,
    then he will pay for himself.
    But is Peter the Great not so? Also - a loner with RCC.

    And "Zamvolta" one will be sent to the theater? Nobody will cover him? Is he able to protect himself? A moot point ...
    1. 0
      18 January 2019 16: 00
      "Is he able to protect himself? The question is controversial ...." ////
      -----
      He has medium-range air defense missiles and missiles against the enemy’s KR.
      What he does not have: Aegis systems to intercept
      Medium range BR. There is no protection against submarines. But other ships are not good at protecting themselves from submarines.
      Here the best way out is to have "your" submarine torpedo bomber in submission.
  19. +2
    17 January 2019 20: 16
    I always thought that the Zumwalt would be useful for night shelling of coastal bases. Take, for example, the illegally filled Chinese islands. On a moonless night, a hundred kilometers from the base, invisible to coastal radars, and a patrol plane can be shot down with a long-range missile defense system. And also in the distance, to distract attention, destroyers that put interference. Shells with ZhPS. One projectile seems to be in six seconds. Runway, radar, hangar 1, hangar 2 ... barracks, fuel depot. And the Chinese will not start a nuclear war in response, because there is mutual containment, and the world will tacitly approve of it, because everyone is unhappy with the Chinese takeover. But the Americans themselves refuted this point of view, because guns are mothballed and will not be used. It remains to come to the conclusion in the title of the article - a useless ship.
  20. 0
    18 January 2019 19: 50
    Summarizing all the above, it cannot be excluded that the destroyers Zamvolt are waiting for the fate of the Virginia-class nuclear missile cruisers, which the Americans wrote off much earlier than the expected time limit.
    In general, as in the old joke:
    - We built, built and finally built.
    - Said, set it on fire! laughing
    And in general - no armor, no guns. Oleg is not satisfied laughing
  21. 0
    18 January 2019 21: 19
    When you go ahead, you always catch all the bumps. So, in principle, they catch, since finances allow them. Which is not to say that they do not benefit from it. The F-117, for example, allowed them to build the F-22 and F-35 - breakthrough vehicles, in fact. All who are building now the 5th generation are guided by them. The same applies to "Zumvalat" - it will serve the emergence of new classes of ships.
  22. -1
    24 January 2019 06: 52
    Quote: Gritsa
    Quote: Kuroneko
    Summarizing all the above, it cannot be excluded that the destroyers Zamvolt are waiting for the fate of the Virginia-class nuclear missile cruisers, which the Americans wrote off much earlier than the expected time limit.

    As technology demonstrators, one figs will come in handy for America. In our country, alas, in general, at least any destroyers from the collapse of the USSR are not being built in principle (well, yes, supposedly "Leader" and all that, but these are really just words - at least in the next 10 years, I would not expect our destroyers. .. and what to expect there? 3-4 units, as always? one thing for each fleet?).

    It’s possible to find an awkward snake volvo as much as you like, but nevertheless it is a full-fledged combat unit. And our Leader is a full-fledged layout, planed from logs.

    Plastic and paper
    1. 0
      27 January 2019 14: 32
      Yeah. Destroyer. Who can only explain why a ship the size of a heavy cruiser WWII carries somewhere in the squadron some mines?
      Imaginations of admirals with almost no fleet set up a couple of mastodons for 4 fleets (in the absence of a dough for a normal fleet) and put in for repair.
  23. 0
    15 March 2019 11: 16
    This is assuming that the PRC does not face the severe political and economic crises characteristic of authoritarian governance models.

    This is an authoritarian management model in Russia.
    .In China, within the framework of the CPC, there are many factions and intra-party competition.
    If the term of the chairman’s term is limited to two five-year terms - i.e. no more than 10 years.
  24. 0
    16 March 2019 04: 29
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Stealth - to go unnoticed to the ships of the enemy

    Alexey, for this stealth is not needed from the word "at all", because the radar of one ship detects another only within the line of sight.

    Shipborne radar complex Mineral-ME.
    The detection range of ARS (active radar) surface targets - up to 250 km.
    [media = http: //www.typhoon-jsc.ru/index.php/production-and-services/special-purpose/mineral-me]
  25. 0
    22 March 2019 16: 24
    At the same time, as of 2016, the United States spent about five billion dollars on research and development alone, and the cost of the entire program back in 2015 was estimated at 22 billion US dollars.

    The author, and not only him, makes a fundamental mistake by considering R&D expenses as expenses. This is not an expense, but an investment that the Americans know how to beat off, not so in other projects. Gained valuable knowledge and technology, it costs money
  26. 0
    17 March 2021 19: 19
    The PRC will not face severe political and economic crises characteristic of authoritarian governance models.

    Will not collide. It is thanks to the "authoritarian" management models. Liberals are more likely to face crises
  27. 0
    17 March 2021 19: 47
    Quote: dauria
    Even if it remains in the amount of 3 pieces, it will remain the first of a new type in history. The F-117 is already history, but it is the first.

    Doubtful primacy. Throw a bunch of dough into an unusable device. As I understand it, the topic of "stealth" technologies has already been repulsed and is slowly starting to move. The grandmas are knocked out, the fuckers are shod, and now the topic must be slowly forgotten. But money is money, and China raises its head, therefore, in order to appeal to common sense, programs are launched to reanimate the production of f-15 and f-16, modernize Burks and extend the operation of Ticonderogs. And the Zamwolts will be placed somewhere far from the eyes and in 10 years they will be written off, like the glorious F-117 without much fanfare and noise. Forty years and a bunch of billions for the United States in terms of defense wasted and wasted developing dead-end technologies. According to the concept, all Zamvolta systems turned out to be flawed - gun mount, propulsion system, unified information system, "revolutionary" body, applied materials. Nothing works as planned. R&D money is wasted. Technology Demonstrator Demonstrating ... Fuck knows what he's demonstrating!
    So neither the F-117 nor Zamwalt will become the first of the new type, since no one will do such things anymore, but will go down in the history of technical curiosities and financial scams.