Military Review

The myth of the creation in the USSR of the most powerful tank in the world

28
Article published on the site "490 Object". The USSR could create the most powerful tank in the world ". I read the article and was surprised: how could this be written?


The myth of the creation in the USSR of the most powerful tank in the world


The article describes what seems to be in the KMDB them. Morozov in 80-ies developed a double-turbo tank with two engines and four tracks and a crew of two people. At this time in the design bureau, we were developing a promising tank "Boxer", and we never heard of any double-tower miracle. The person who wrote this article has little idea what a tank is. How can you design a tank in which two towers are on the same level? How to ensure circular sweeping of the main gun?

Four caterpillars and two engines. There were no such projects in KB. The author calls this tank "490 Object".

When developing a promising tank “Boxer” at the stage of the search work “Poplar” considered “Object 490”, who died without being born. It was a variant of the tank with two crew members. There were never two towers, two engines and four tracks. At the very beginning of work in 1982 at the “Rebel” research stage, this tank project was closed due to the impossibility of two-man crew managing the tank well, and my units were engaged in justifying the crew for two and three people. They never returned to this option.

The author refers in the article to the source, without indicating what kind of source. Here is the link: “In October 1984, the management of the GBTU and GRAU arrived at the Kharkov engineering design bureau, headed by General Potapov and Bazhenov, to familiarize themselves with the development of the development of a promising tank. The “490 mm caliber gun” (the 125 mm variant was developed) was installed on the “130A Object”, and the talk about raising the caliber has been going on for a long time. There was a debate about which caliber to choose - 140 mm or 152 mm. At that moment, General Litvinenko, the head of the NKT GRAU (Scientific Committee of the Main Artillery and Missile Control), made the diagram very well and clearly demonstrating how effective the 152 mm caliber is for the tank. Since then, the 152 mm caliber has been adopted for the future project, and no one has ever returned to this issue. After the decision was made on the caliber of the gun of a prospective tank, the existing variants of tanks Topn 490 Object and Rebel 490A Object demanded a complete rearrangement.

And now close to this phrase in my book “The last spurt of Soviet tank builders. (The diary of the participant of the development of the tanker "Boxer") ", published on the Internet in 2009:

“9.10.84. The leadership of the GBTU and the GRAU, headed by Potapov and Bazhenov, came to watch “The Rebel” with a large retinue. The attitude of the military to the car was wary, and Bazhenov was biased towards everything.
In the office at the Shomina reported on the tank, violent disputes began, what caliber the gun should have. The "Rebel" was a portable gun caliber 130 mm, and for a long time there was talk about increasing the caliber. A naked dispute began on which caliber to accept: mm 140 or mm 152. At that moment, General Litvinenko, the head of NTK GRAU, made the schedule very well and clearly, and in just three minutes, he proved how effective the caliber of 152 mm is for the tank. ” (From this point on, the 152 mm caliber was adopted for the “Boxer”, and this question was never returned. ”And this tank had the code“ 477 object ”. - Yu.A.)


As you can see, the quotation from the book is the basis of the phrase in the article, but changed to complete absurdity. About some kind of miracle tank "Object XNUMHA" we are not talking. Such a tank did not exist, and the project of the tank with this code was already closed. Nobody was engaged in the repackage of this tank. No one needed this, the OCD "Boxer" began, and it was based on another tank layout - with a crew of three people.

The author makes an even more original conclusion at the end: “Firstly, a promising tank should be as close as possible to previous generations. After all, the use of such a motley OBT park would be not so much technically difficult, but also an incredibly expensive “pleasure.” Secondly, a promising tank had to be relatively cheap in itself in order to conform to the Soviet doctrine of using military equipment. ”

A promising tank cannot be like the tanks of the previous generation, it is also a promising tank. I do not remember. so that when developing the Boxer tank we were also given conditions on the cost of the tank, everyone understood perfectly that it was only possible to achieve fundamentally new quality by introducing new systems and units of the tank, which would inevitably require costs.

Written in an article by I. Legat - simply trivial fabrications of a person who heard something about the development of a promising tank in 80-s, distorted development time, cipher codes, search, research and development and development work on tanks of that time, along the way. affairs attributing to the KMDB the development of a mythical tank. In addition, for the authenticity of the source who cited a source and did not indicate it, he quoted a phrase taken out of the context of my book, which deals with a completely different tank.

But most of all I was amused by a tank with two towers: I had to think of it before that!
Author:
Photos used:
Depositphotos.com
28 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. inkass_98
    inkass_98 31 October 2018 07: 11
    +9
    I won’t say anything about double-turret tanks, since the time of the QMS and T-100, we haven’t done such things anymore, if sclerosis doesn’t change me, and the four-track was a project (279 object):
    1. Sharky
      Sharky 1 November 2018 00: 18
      0
      The author of this article had in mind projects for the simultaneous use of two towers and four caterpillars.
      Four tracks and two engines. There were no such projects in the design bureau.

      And in terms of four tracks with one tower, you're right.
    2. svp67
      svp67 1 November 2018 20: 28
      0
      Quote: inkass_98
      and the four-track was a project (object 279):

      There is an option that we will see more ... "articulated" "four-track" tank for the Arctic
      At this time, in KB, we were developing a promising Boxer tank, and we never heard of a two-tower miracle.
      Until the archives of the design bureau of the Malyshev plant, this period, become public, such "stuffing" will continue. But this "golden" time will not come very soon.
  3. Bull Terrier
    Bull Terrier 31 October 2018 07: 31
    0
    Well, actually everything has now become clearer) the walking idea is still curious)
  4. LSA57
    LSA57 31 October 2018 07: 56
    +8
    In addition, for the authenticity of referring to some source and not indicating it, which resulted in a phrase taken out of the context of my book, which refers to a completely different tank.

    typical reception of unscrupulous journalists.
    they usually use it with custom articles to defame anyone
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor 31 October 2018 10: 20
    +4
    Dear Yuri Mikhalych, you won’t be fooling around on the chaff; right away, you’ll set the brains for various borozopisets!
  6. venik
    venik 31 October 2018 11: 08
    +11
    Many thanks to the author !!! It is always interesting to read the articles of PROFESSIONALS, especially of PARTICIPANTS of development - you will find out the truth!
    However, it is not clear what these photos are like (from the mentioned article by I. Legat "Object 490". The USSR could have created the most powerful tank in the world ", and WHERE did I. Legat get them ?:


    What is it? "Photoshop" or photo of large-scale models ???
    1. san4es
      san4es 31 October 2018 11: 33
      +4
      Quote: venik
      ... WHAT are these photos

      ... Sounds like one of the "fantasies". OKR 490B Protein
      The squirrel is known - there was a pencil sketch, rejected due to too much fantastic ... And the running model of the 4-tracked mover was sculpted apparently to reinforce this sketch at the personal expense of E. Morozov ?
      If we are talking about the one that was made of 2 T-64A with an MT-T cabin, then no - it was done in order to check the theoretical feasibility of the idea of ​​such a chassis. The principle of the circuit is that 2 motors are used. And far from everything that Belka wanted to do was implemented there.
      Well, except for the chassis in the tank and everything else was semi-fantastic.
      A description of the layout was in the BTT Newsletter for 91 years.
      It has 2 5TDF, but cross-country patency is higher - the tracks are independent, and the car is more stable as a result on very rough terrain. But it comes out much more expensive.
      Hydromechanical volumetric transmission designed for ob.490B, which is characterized in that it provides cold start of the main engine after prolonged parking at a wide range of low temperatures.
      Provides:
      - Pumping fluid from the channels and cavities of the GOP before long-term parking;
      - Overlapping by the safety valve of the GOF and CP lubrication lines when pumping liquid from the crankcases before long-term parking;
      - Thermal washing of HOP by pumping heated fluid through its cavities and channels before cold start;
      - Provides a cold start to the main engine after prolonged parking at lower temperatures and, thereby, improves the performance of the machine by expanding the range of operating temperatures of its operation.http: //www.paralay.world/477/477.html
    2. RF man
      RF man 7 November 2018 03: 52
      0
      Quote: venik
      Many thanks to the author !!! It is always interesting to read the articles of PROFESSIONALS, especially of PARTICIPANTS of development - you will find out the truth!
      However, it is not clear what these photos are like (from the mentioned article by I. Legat "Object 490". The USSR could have created the most powerful tank in the world ", and WHERE did I. Legat get them ?:


      What is it? "Photoshoot" or photos of large-scale models ???

      ALL photos indicate the source ...
      So we find the "author" just ripped everything from http://btvt.info/2futureprojects/490_21vek.htm
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. Romka47
      Romka47 31 October 2018 12: 57
      -1
      Yes, you can wait for an answer, wait. I know for sure that this article is true (95 percent) for sure, I love and study the history of domestic tank building for more than 10 years (amateur) in the prince in this article what I knew before, but I don’t remember mentioning about double-towered monsters from the beginning 20th century
      1. Legat_01
        Legat_01 31 October 2018 14: 20
        0
        In other words, Yury Apukhtin asserts that this project is a fake? If so, then the submitted photos are also fiction (I myself, by the way, do not exclude this on 100%). As for the new article itself, the text presented above is extremely messy and leaves many questions. It seems to me that the author should not give out a personal opinion for the ultimate truth.

        When writing material "Object 490". The USSR could create the most powerful tank in the world "the following sources were used:

        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3392819.html

        http://btvt.info/2futureprojects/490_21vek.htm?fbclid=IwAR0PExJ1DhCD6OKb9WJ7Gj8ja7FkIdLWrJbueYIUm_Oz6zMBmjCjaIzrl8Y

        as well as a number of other sources that are not directly related to the object.
        1. Legat_01
          Legat_01 31 October 2018 14: 50
          0
          I repeat, in fact, in the material "" Object 490 ". The USSR could create the most powerful tank in the world" ", an attempt was made to present the information previously presented in the bmpd blog. The author did not invent anything from himself. I would be glad to receive constructive criticism.
        2. Xazarin
          Xazarin 31 October 2018 15: 28
          +11
          Quote: Legat_01
          It seems to me that the author should not give out a personal opinion for the ultimate truth.


          With all due respect, but it “seems” to me that the personal opinion of the person who created tanks for three decades is the ultimate truth
        3. Yuri Apukhtin
          31 October 2018 16: 02
          +11
          Looked at the link to the source, this could be the continuation of the work of Yevgeny Morozov and Anatoly Mazurenko, after their project of a tank with a crew of two people was not accepted and studies on it at KMDB were stopped. They could draw projects of any tanks, but the KMDB was not engaged in their development, and the specialized departments of the KB did not work on it. Such studies could be carried out in the advanced design department. who was subordinate to E. Morozov. and beyond this unit, he did not go anywhere. It could be a purely paper project of a certain group of people and nothing more. The design bureau's efforts were focused on the implementation of the Boxer tank. The development of another tank in parallel with the "Boxer" was not carried out. For this, the design bureau did not have the forces. It is one thing to draw a picture of such a tank, without elaborating on its components and systems, it is another thing to develop a tank project that can be implemented with the specified characteristics and the connection of the necessary subcontractors. The project of such a tank in the KMDB was not only not developed, it was never discussed, I was a member of the NTS KB and could not have been aware of such a project.
          In this material there are two photos of a full-scale mock-up of such a tank. Mounting it or not is not going to judge. I draw your attention to the fact that the workshop and the fence, against which these photographs were taken, did not exist on the territory of the KMDB and the landfill at that time. If these are real photos, then they are made somewhere else. .
          VNIITM has always been interested in the "coupling" project - two hulls with an independent suspension and tried to offer us a promising tank as a base. perhaps E. Morozov tried to implement his ideas together with VNIITM in Leningrad.
          To draw a picture of a tank with two and three towers is not a problem, how feasible it is and what characteristics it will provide for this big question.
          1. tank-master
            tank-master 1 November 2018 23: 18
            +1
            That's right, you wrote ... just now there are a lot of patients living in parallel reality, who are not taken into account in psycho dispensaries, since they are not violent.
            But here they themselves are expressed ... using the capabilities of the computer, drawing photos and 3D models of projects that were only on paper in the general layout department of the HCMB, presenting this as a brilliant project ... while still trying to refer to Your works. By the way, this project is in the HCMB, in paper form .. and the layout is also stored in the general layout department. But it’s clear to specialists that this is complete nonsense .. but the public perceives this at face value. Although working in KHKBM ... I also had to make a non-existent project out of the photo ... so everyone in the photo was sure that the BMPT-84 was shown ... although it was only a project on paper and in 3-D ... and the layout in the tree. What to do, HCMB school.
    2. igordok
      igordok 31 October 2018 17: 55
      -1
      Quote: Kotischa
      conducted an investigation of the photograph of the "mytho-tank"!

      The photo shows a strange shadow. There is no shadow under the track in front, although there is one behind. There is no shadow "gap" between the front and rear tracks.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 31 October 2018 19: 24
        +1
        Quote: igordok
        The photo has a strange shadow.

        There is nothing strange there. Judging by the shadow under the stern of the tank, the sun is almost at its zenith along the tank. The shadow in front of the tank is not from the tank, but most likely from the tree in front, slightly to the right (if you look along the tank).
    3. venik
      venik 1 November 2018 14: 00
      +7
      Quote: Kotischa
      And if in principle, as in the article by Ilya Legat, and in today's refutation of Yuri, everything is unfounded! That the first, that the second hang information on air!

      =========
      Verbally? Hang information on air ??? I don’t know who Ilya Legat is and how much he is competent in the field of tank building, but Yuri Mikhailovich Apukhtin - in references to the primary sources - DO NOT NEED - he himself is the FIRST SOURCE !!! 24 years (from 1970 to 1994) worked at KMDB (for a rather long time as the Head of the Department of Advanced Development). ALL this "kitchen", WHAT, WHEN and HOW it was developed perfectly knows !!!
  8. tank64rus
    tank64rus 31 October 2018 15: 43
    +2
    Tank with two towers T-100 and QMS. These were the last tanks with a multi-tower layout. T-28 and T-35 three and five-turret tanks. They were abandoned in the world because the path turned out to be a dead end. Therefore, I think if there was something at the sketch level, it died there.
  9. Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 31 October 2018 19: 22
    0
    In all fairness, the "howl about object 490" was launched by "Baron Tonkolyuk" in Runet.
  10. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 1 November 2018 21: 34
    0
    I have been waiting for Yuri’s article for a long time, I began to worry that he abandoned Us, but praise the Gods, He is with us. Very interesting, thank you. I have a question for you, were worked out in your KBKBM them. Morozova tank options with front MTO and electromechanical undercarriage. Thank you in advance.
  11. Zaits
    Zaits 1 November 2018 23: 21
    0
    Quote: Kotischa
    And if in principle, as in the article by Ilya Legat, and in today's refutation of Yuri, everything is unfounded! ...
    Today, within 4 hours from the moment of the publication of Yuri's material, at my request, we carried out an investigation of the photograph of the "myth-tank"! Conclusion photography is real, not montage!
    Now the question? If the layout was, even in iron or wood, then why?
    .

    - About the borrowed fragment from the book, too unfounded?
    - Have you explored which photo of the 3 people who walked with the background?
    Traces of falsification are clearly visible on two of them. Unlike VO, on some forum it was quickly truncated (I read it even before the first article appeared on VO, but I didn't remember exactly where). I would also add that one gets the impression of deliberately preserving the "blunders" in these photos.
    But the photo in the title of this article strongly suggests a small amateur layout. There are some signs to think so. But the photo seems to be real.

    In general, even these two points are enough to talk about a frank mystification of the flown up and in.
  12. Zaits
    Zaits 1 November 2018 23: 28
    0
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: igordok
    The photo has a strange shadow.

    There is nothing strange there. Judging by the shadow under the stern of the tank, ...

    There are many shadows, and they are joined rather shittyly.
  13. Zaits
    Zaits 2 November 2018 03: 14
    0
    Quote: Yuri Apukhtin
    ...
    To draw a picture of a tank with two and three towers is not a problem, how feasible it is and what characteristics it will provide for this big question.

    But purely offhand, intuitively, could a real engineer with decent design experience "draw" such a thing?
    Not at the level of the concept, but the way it should be in the hardware. Someone did make such a layout, even if it was small. And either a full-fledged realization was meant, or it is purely fantasy.
  14. Zaits
    Zaits 2 November 2018 03: 33
    0
    Quote: tank-master
    ... By the way, this project is in the HCMB, in paper form .. and the layout is also stored in the general layout department. But it’s clear to specialists that this is complete nonsense .. but the public perceives this at face value. ....

    If this is complete nonsense, why did HCBM need to make a layout? I really can’t understand this.
    Although I am not an expert in this field, but for me it looks crazy. And I can’t imagine that this model was made at the HCMB. There is clearly something wrong with him.
    1. eburg1234
      eburg1234 5 November 2018 11: 31
      0
      Presumably, the layout was done in the advanced design department. This project has a very distant relation to real life, there was no serious study.
  15. Hazard TV
    Hazard TV 6 November 2018 15: 29
    +1
    In the USA, four-track tanks of the longitudinal scheme were being worked out, we somehow did not take root ...
  16. Sergei75
    Sergei75 12 December 2018 22: 34
    0
    And with us everything is like that, to speak with bulging eyes "for the sake of a catchphrase", and then print somewhere else, and others then refer to this heresy ...