Armored car "IVECO 65E19WM" - Russian "Lynx"

101
History the creation of this vehicle begins with agreements between the Defense Ministry of Russia, KAMAZ and the Italian IVECO on the possibilities of using an armored army vehicle manufactured by IVECO in the units of the Russian Armed Forces signed in 2008. In 2009, KAMAZ purchases two armored Iveco LMV multifunctional vehicles for testing. The price of one car is almost 400 000 dollars. The main reason for the acquisition of these machines is the operation in more than 10 countries, good explosion protection and the interest of the top military leadership of Russia to this machine. At that time, there were no such machines in Russia that would satisfy the demands of the military. Although the same armored transporter BTR-90, created in 90-s and adopted for supply in 2008, the military refused to adopt, calling to the same unpromising machine. A foreign car without any tenders and full-fledged tests almost immediately put into operation the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

Armored car "IVECO 65E19WM" - Russian "Lynx"


We remember the indignation caused by this fact, which was supported by the tests, where the Italian machine loses to the domestic Tigra - the “Iveco LMV” test on the snowy off-road could not stand it and quietly crawled forward when the Gorky Tigr confidently “ran” the test site. Then the “interested” KAMAZ specialists justified that the bumper was too wide and there was practically no protection from the pallet. These identified errors they have eliminated in the following samples.



The tiger does not have increased protection class 6a in contrast to the "Iveco LMV". But at one time, the military did not make any demands on putting such protection before the Gorky designers. It can also be quickly installed and “put into service” a well-protected Tiger. After all, the Tiger model SMP-2, created for subdivisions of internal troops, already has the protection of the 5 class, and the military version remains without good armor - and after all, the Motherland serves together and is used in military conflicts.

But back to the Lynx. The situation with it became more and more intriguing - by 2010, we bought two more machines for testing (an assembly from KAMAZ). At the exhibitions “IVECO 65E19WM”, only with the Russian name “Lynx”, it is shown only in closed expositions, where the fate of many samples is usually decided. In 2011, a dozen more cars were bought, which were assembled at KAMAZ. However, almost immediately, KAMAZ refuses to participate in a joint project. According to the information provided to the public, the Italian company had problems with the license, because equipment and components are assembled in several countries. After that, the military department itself became a “conductor” of Iveco armored vehicles. In the autumn at the exhibition she appears under the “banners” of Oboronservis. But the “Lynx” was again unlucky, the armored car could not cope with the tests and just went around many obstacles.



According to the general director of KAMAZ, in principle, the Italian IVECO is a very worthy car. Of course, it required some modifications to the Russian reality, but this does not change the essence - the KamAZovsky “Lynx” armored car, and now the ministerial production is a very good vehicle for performing the required tasks. A well-known video about the undermining of an armored vehicle “IVECO”, to be honest, on the contrary, shows a reliable explosion-proof vehicle. After all, if people in the car suffered or even died, it was not from the fragments of a mine, but from the depressurization of the car (open door). We will look at the IVECO LMV vehicles that participated in real military conflicts, and those that did not return, there are problems with explosion protection and anti-bullet protection. In principle, it is impossible, of course, to turn light car in a heavy tank, but, if possible, to this we must strive. Today at the Voronezh Automobile and Repair Plant of the Russian Defense Ministry there is an assembly of Russian “Rysy”. The volume of work performed is very small - fastening cargo compartments, bonnet, winches and spare wheel. Disassembled cars are delivered to the factory by auto-trailers, two cars in one truck carrier. In the 2012 year, according to published plans, almost 60 machines will be assembled. In the future, they will collect more and more cars every year. By the year 2020, the armed forces of Russia will have to receive almost 1800 Rysya. If the situation does not change, Russia will be the owner of the largest fleet of Italian cars “IVECO LMV” called Lynx.

One thing is not clear: according to available information, the value of the contract is about one billion dollars. The cost of one machine "Lynx" more than 17 million rubles. This is despite the fact that the new "BTR-82" costs a little more than 20 million rubles. Armored Tiger costs a little more than 5 million rubles. I would like to hope that the top military leadership of Russia has finally begun to take care of ordinary soldiers and their comfort, and against the background of the Austrians, who also recently adopted the Iveco LMV, the price of the domestic Lynx seems quite acceptable - the cost of the Austrian LMV is more 850 thousand euros.



The indicative moment in our case is the comparative tests of 6 samples of armored vehicles in the United States, among which they will choose the best. But, by and large, in the absence of explosion-proof machines, the blame lies only on the Russian military department, which for some unknown reason did not analyze the current situation and the use of such machines in ongoing military conflicts, and did not give the task to the domestic military industrial complex to develop explosion-proof machines. Only recently began testing the "Bear" and "Typhoon", and do it before ....

The fate of the parts for the armored vehicle “Lynx” is interesting. It’s no secret that so far they are completely foreign-made (Germany and Italy), so in the end, the car is still more expensive (the footboard for the Lynx costs 30 thousand rubles, the body heater barrier 26 thousand rubles) - because the necessary parts are needed now and they cost hundreds one thousand dollars. In the near future, it is planned to create joint ventures for their production according to the formula 50X50 with Italian and German companies. It is possible that the customs duty on sets of machines and their components will be canceled, which will reduce the cost, but for now this is only the nearest prospects.

Key Features:
- wheel formula 4х4;
- wheelbase 323 centimeter;
- gauge 171 centimeter;
- the width of the 2 meter;
- length 4.8 meter;
- height 2 meter;
- Ground clearance 315-473 mm;
- weight of the car full / equipped - 7 / 4.7 tons;
- payload 2.3 tons;
- towing capabilities - 2 tons (trailer), 4.2 tons (maximum);
- Propulsion system - IVECO F1 C;
- engine power -190 hp;
- speed up to 130 km / h;
- travel angle to 60 degrees;
- travel angle on hilly terrain to 30 degrees;
- turn 14.5 meters;
- overcome ford with / without preparing 85 / 110 centimeters;



Information sources:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/elberet545/album/168756/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/broneavtomobil-rys
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/908505.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQ68_kjqqU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tExVQbsaDFg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGTyWc_vXcw
101 comment
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  1. Rusich
    +7
    28 May 2012 08: 59
    The Russian defense industry is Strength !!! Technique is not for the parade But for the war!
    1. pribolt
      +18
      28 May 2012 09: 40
      In general, they should work with such things according to the Chinese scheme; they bought 5 cars; they distributed them according to design bureau;
      1. +9
        28 May 2012 09: 59
        you would tell a joke about the nuance and everything would become clear.
        1. +3
          28 May 2012 10: 18
          I know this joke .... I understand laughing
    2. nnnnnnnnn
      +10
      28 May 2012 11: 47
      How Russian Defense Ministry officials helped Lynx defeat Tiger

      25.01.2012 02:56
      Armored car iveco lmv m65 Lynx The Ministry of Defense of Russia officially announced that it had signed a contract with the Italian company iveco for the supply of 60 armored vehicles lmv m65 lynx back in December 2011. This was announced on January 24 by the representative of the Ministry of Defense Alexander Sukhorukov. He did not name the amount of the deal, but said that the Italians would supply car kits, and the assembly of armored cars would be carried out in Voronezh.
      With the help of bureaucrats from the RF Ministry of Defense, "Lynx" was able to outright defeat "Tiger". Moreover, this victory took place not according to the real combat and technical characteristics of the two armored vehicles, but exclusively at the request of the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, which was simply pathologically interested in acquiring an Italian vehicle.
      At the last arms exhibition in Nizhny Tagil, held in September 2011, representatives of the RF Ministry of Defense with an important air called on the representatives of the Gorky Automobile Plant to demonstrate everything that their GAZ-2330 Tiger is capable of. At the test site "Tiger" showed that it simply surpasses the Italian "Lynx" by an order of magnitude. And the audience saw it, the experts saw it, the representatives of the military departments of different countries saw it. Only representatives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation defiantly did not see this. But the officials from the Ministry of Defense knew the main thing - the contract with the Italians was already ready.
      The iveco armored car caused the laughter of the stands when, having failed to cope with several obstacles, it began to be dashing and go around them at a good pace. Only special forces soldiers who were watching the law and order at the exhibition did not laugh. It is they who will have to experience the consequences of the Italics of the Italians from the Russian Defense Ministry.
      September 2011 Nizhny Tagil. Scam iveco lmv m65 Lynx, she just circles an obstacle.

      And now, on January 24, a representative of the Ministry of Defense Sukhorukov speaks and declares that in preliminary tests "their (iveco) characteristics were better than those of their Russian counterparts." According to the tradition that has developed recently, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation constantly declares the superiority of foreign military equipment over domestic, while not disdaining outright fraud and lies.

      One of the main complaints of officials from the RF Ministry of Defense to the GAZ-2330 "Tiger" is its weak armor protection, and the iveco lmv m65 lynx just meets the modern requirements for crew protection.

      Here, representatives of the Moscow Oblast openly lie. By NATO standards, armor protection fully meets all the requirements, if 50% plus 1 bullet is not broken. What does this mean in practice? If you shoot iveco with SVD ammunition with a B-32 bullet and a fully shot magazine, four bullets break through the armor protection and kill four out of five crew members, then by NATO standards, armored car protection will meet the norm! If officials from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation were in the armored car, then, of course, we can agree that such protection meets security requirements.

      September 2011 Nizhny Tagil. GAZ-2330 Tiger overcomes the same obstacle.

      According to Russian GOST, such safety standards are simply unacceptable. According to our standard, armor protection is not broken if bulges with a microcrack have formed on the inside, through which kerosene leaks (and does not leak). And if the crack is a little larger, then this is not the norm, even if this is one such penetration on 100 hits.
      In addition, officials from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation "forgot" that in the terms of reference for the GAZ-2330 "Tiger" armored car they themselves set requirements to install armor of the 3rd protection class in accordance with GOST R 50963-96 (which corresponds to the 1st level according to stanag 4569). At the same time, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia has been purchasing armored vehicles GAZ-2330 "Tiger" with the 5th class of protection according to the same GOST (2nd level stanag) for the internal troops for three (!) Years. That is, representatives of the RF Ministry of Defense are simply lying, claiming that the Tiger is poorly protected because they themselves demand the supply of just such armored vehicles.

      Another drawback of the iveco lmv m65 lynx armored car is its very cramped interior. Actually, it can fit the driver and another 3 passenger. Moreover, if they suddenly get into the car in full combat gear, then in the event of a combat situation, jump out of it so that everything is at hand can be difficult.

      The armored car "Tiger" in this regard is much more spacious and comfortable. To transport the same number of soldiers, twice as many Italian "Rysy" are needed than Russian "Tigers".

      According to the "Military-Industrial Company", one armored car GAZ-2330 "Tiger", depending on the version, costs 200-230 thousand dollars (5-7 million rubles). In 2009, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation purchased two Italian iveco lmv m65 lynx at a price of 300 thousand euros apiece, and in the future, the price of the Apennine "Lynx" may reach 500 thousand euros for one armored car (20 million rubles).

      In total, the RF Ministry of Defense plans to purchase 1775 iveco lmv m65 "Lynx" armored vehicles.

      If we consider the actions of the Ministry of Defense of Russia in the history of the acquisition of iveco armored vehicles, then from the point of view of Western gunsmiths from the NATO bloc, they can only be praised. They bought equipment that was really inferior to the Russian counterpart, supported the Italian company during the crisis and at the expense of the Russian budget, cut the order for the Russian company.

      But of course, the bureaucrats from the Ministry of Defense will not forget themselves. As the chief military prosecutor Sergei Fredinsky said, the level of corruption in the Russian Ministry of Defense is simply astronomical.

      Browser Alexander Ryazantsev
      1. ak_12
        0
        28 May 2012 13: 28
        IVECO LMV is corny less than "Tiger" therefore its geometric cross-country ability is worse. Well, the "Husar" car which is equipped today, for example, 56 dshbr, has even worse geometric cross-country ability. Do we conclude that all vehicles with a geometric cross-country ability less than that of the "Tiger" are not worthy of acceptance for supply to the RF Armed Forces?

        Reservation. According to Denis Mokrushin, a special correspondent for the National Defense publication, our testers shot almost two hundred 7.62 mm B-32 armor-piercing rifle bullets from our barrel during trials at the LMV, not a single penetration was achieved. The same bullets would have turned any Tiger (except Tiger-6A) into a sieve. What about the "Tiger-6A" because of the enhanced booking, its carrying capacity is so low that with five remaining seats, the military-industrial complex did not even try to mount a turret with weapons on it, the "Tiger-6A" was positioned as an unarmed armored vehicle for transportation command staff. However, the Ministry of Defense still needs armored vehicles on which the installation of turret weapons is provided. Alas, with the turret, the "VPK" company cannot offer even the version of the "Tiger" booked according to the 5th class of protection of GOST, but let's say the company "Zashchita" offers a car "Scorpion-LTA" on which not only the installation of the turret armament is provided, but also the booking according to GOST class 6A, as well as protection of the crew against detonation by 6 kg of TNT. However, unlike the IVECO LMV, neither the Scorpion-LTA nor the Tiger have undergone detonation tests, in any case, the general public knows nothing about the fact and results of such tests.

        It's ridiculous to talk about the cramped interior of a five-seater car with a wheelbase of 323 cm. One can stop talking about the greater comfort of the "Tiger" just by looking at the seats of the crew of the "Tiger" on one side and the "Scorpion-LTA" or IVECO LMV on the other. And if you listen to the problems that arise when you try to get into the Tiger's cabin through the back door in equipment, there is simply no need to talk about the ergonomics of this car acceptable to passengers.

        PS Reading articles like those written by the columnist Alexander Rezantsev, sometimes one gets the impression that if the "VPK" company would put as much effort into the development of "Wolf" cars as it put into the black PR of IVECO LMV, then "Wolves" would already be in the series, and for this reason production of armored vehicles "Tiger" would have already been discontinued.
        1. -1
          28 May 2012 15: 47
          I fully share your comments. tired of reading about the superiority of the tiger, everyone sees that the car is damp, but they continue to prove with foam at the mouth that everything is complete, and only the tiger is "darling"
        2. -2
          28 May 2012 16: 13
          Taki about SUVs, not about armored cars, but I will express myself.
          For everything is known in comparison.
          It is precisely for similar reasons that I, as a keen on ziping and having driven hundreds of miles on dirt roads on various variations of SUVs (and many kilometers in front of the pepelats with arms outstretched, as a Pyatochkovski "navigator"), preferred a wide zip from the glorious city ​​of Toledo, Ohio. (according to vin)
          With an equal budget for the housing construction, the UAZ tears all the nahuruzu, but:
          1. With the active investment of funds, which of course brings the USSR cart closer to the cost of a used foreigner;
          2. With a gradual immersion in the world of auto-shamanism and other tambourines and correctly growing hands, which is useful for men in general.
          3. His saloon you can’t distinguish one figs from a cart, a steering damper (when did the steering wheel hit your wrists on potholes?) And the power steering is put in the garage - optionally. You should be surprised, but it is stupidly worth the money.
          4. The only car with a tent roof (UAZ 469, military) in which I was successfully sprayed with a usual puddle on the St. Petersburg highway 3 times on the way from Tver to Moscow (windows closed, speed 70km, rain ...). And still wet, because from the ceiling through the seam dripping (!?). Spartan pepelats. No frills. Even the right ones. Extreme in itself, in fact of its existence.
          UAZ for Kama Sutra lovers with cars, plus a budget. At the cost of investing den.znakov NOTHING differs from an imported SUV. For to the upper price category, as to the top of Everest. In foreign carts, you can also put domestic parts. Sometimes from a basin-UAZ.
          Why am I doing this? And besides, 90% of the time it should go, and not like the brains of the driver. Oh, I’m not sure in our viburnum! (WITH)

          I hope our guys enjoy Lynx, as an example, albeit an expensive, but high-quality car industry, for the Soldier! What would they enjoy the service, and not the soil for the scenarios of DMB films and other jokes.
          1. 0
            28 May 2012 19: 32
            In winter, I saw an enchanting picture on the Entuziastov highway (aka "The Path of the Pessimists") with the participation of a military UAZ, probably belonging to the Balashikha Air Force personnel (the city borders on Moscow).
            So here; there was a miracle of the Ulyanovsk Automobile, with the rear drive shaft falling out ...
            What can I say .... Well, the dachshund male resembles (the tale of how a joyful dachshund cable could not go up the stairs to a friend) ... Well, the night is almost night ... There are no traffic jams, you are quiet and lonely, but you don’t have to go can. WAI probably expects or even someone else, an accident after all ... And the universal joint lies on the asphalt.
            The Soldier is sorry, it was cold.
            No, it certainly can be said that a bad dancer (about the driver, who the car is attributed to) and the like, but knowing our car will become milder than ever.
            1. Aleksey67
              +1
              28 May 2012 19: 35
              Quote: dmitreach
              The soldier is sorry, it was cold.

              The engine could start and bask winked You can’t ride, but you can bask smile
              1. 0
                28 May 2012 20: 33
                yes it’s possible. he just danced in the circle of the car. maybe out of boredom, or maybe not a full tank of gas ... who knows how much he stuck there and how much gas was in the tank. or maybe there is not only a cardan problem was limited .. I say what I saw.
              2. 0
                28 May 2012 22: 12
                knowing our fuel and lubricants service, gasoline was probably there exactly from point A to point B.
        3. CC-18a
          -1
          29 May 2012 06: 56
          you wrote lies and misinformation.
          There is no dock in the shelling of the Tiger, that Iveco was shot just as sure that this was not according to the contract and the requirement of the Italian side is not to hold bulletproof tests and undermining, as much as possible it was allowed to test off-road properties.
          All attacks and bombings iveko were carried out only in Europe without the participation of tigers, so with 100% certainty I declare that you are lying.

          Quote: ak_12
          It's ridiculous to talk about the cramped cabin of a five-seater car with a wheelbase of 323 cm. You can stop talking about the greater comfort of the "Tiger" just by looking at the seats of the crew of the "Tiger" on one side and "Scorpion-LTA" or IVECO LMV on the other side.

          Laugh if there is no mind to verify the information. The network has a bunch of photos on the insides of both iveco and tiger, and so it’s immediately obvious that inside the tiger there is 1,5 more space than iveco.
          It’s not clear to me what patient and on what this patient was based, making conclusions that Iveco is more capacious.
          Quote: ak_12
          And if you listen to the problems that arise when you try to get into the Tiger's cabin through the back door in equipment, there is simply no need to talk about the ergonomics of this car acceptable to passengers.

          Again, lies or delusions of the patient! The doors of the tiger are no longer than on the UAZ, but personally I have not heard that our fighters are stuck in the doors of the UAZ. This time.
          Two - there are no requirements for the width of the doors from the MO. And your complaints are nonsense.
          The third. Ergonomics inside are always worse; our Soviet fighters do not fit there! Europeans may be worse, but our full-fledged 80kg is not.

          Quote: ak_12
          if the company "VPK" would put as much effort into the development of cars "Wolf" as it invested in the black PR of IVECO LMV then "Wolves"

          That is, right now, you are claiming that Iveka Vanderfavlya is a super duper machine without weaknesses? am
          Maybe instead of Iveco PR you would be better at modernizing and improving it than praising a deliberately problematic machine.

          PS: By the way, cross-country ability for this class of armored vehicles is in the first place. It’s personally sad to me personally that it’s ridiculous that the whole division will get up on the march because the commander’s commander got stuck, I’ll exaggerate but there is some truth in every joke.
          1. ak_12
            -3
            30 May 2012 00: 02
            about which Iveco was shot just as sure that this was not according to the contract and the requirement of the Italian side - not to conduct tests for bullet resistance and undermining


            http://twower.livejournal.com/611921.html

            "For two days, Russian specialists carried out specialized attacks on IVECO with B-32 armor-piercing incendiary bullets using a 7,62x54 ballistic barrel. It was from such ammunition that the manufacturer guaranteed full protection according to the third level STANAG 4569 (it corresponds to the Russian 6a class of ballistic protection according to GOST R 50963 -96). The shelling was carried out from different distances in all possible places of the car: the joints of the armor panels, the edges of the glass, in order to find vulnerabilities. On the first day, 150 shots were fired, on the second - about 60. Not a single penetration was achieved. "

            The doors of the tiger are no longer than on the UAZ, but personally I have not heard that our fighters are stuck in the doors of the UAZ.


            http://twower.livejournal.com/801601.html

            Landing in SPM (with photo and comments)

            That is, right now, you are claiming that Iveka Vanderfavlya is a super duper machine without weaknesses?


            Wunderwales live in your imagination. Photo of "Lynx" with armor of a machine gunner's turret from KAMAZ at the top of the page (GABTU requirement). Here is a photo of the "Scorpion-LSHA B" with the machine gunner's turret armor:



            When will the manufacturer of the armored vehicle VPK-233114 "Tiger-M" bother to install the armor protection of the machine gunner?

            It’s personally sad to me personally that it’s ridiculous that the whole division will get up on the march because the commander’s commander got stuck, I’ll exaggerate but there is some truth in every joke.


            Test Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQ68_kjqqU

            Enemy HMMWV will be the first to stand. Behind them are the biaxial Urals, and only then the Lynx. And here is such a "Lynx" with increased ground clearance (cars of the new standard IVECO plans to start production this year):



            Most likely it will get stuck after the "Tiger" gets stuck.
            1. CC-18a
              +1
              4 June 2012 20: 42
              My words -
              Quote: CC-18a
              All shelling and bombing iveko carried out only in europe without the participation of tigers, so with 100% certainty I declare that you are lying.

              Your Answer -
              Quote: ak_12
              http://twower.livejournal.com/611921.html"Два дня российские специалисты проводили специализированные обстрелы IVECO бронебойно-зажигательными пулями Б-32 с использованием баллистического ствола калибра 7,62х54. Именно от такого боеприпаса производитель гарантировал полную защиту по третьему уровню STANAG 4569 (он соответствует российскому 6а классу баллистической защиты по ГОСТ Р 50963-96). Обстрел велся с разных дистанций во всевозможные места автомобиля: стыки бронепанелей, кромки стекла, с целью найти уязвимости. В первый день было произведено 150 выстрелов, во второй – порядка 60. Ни одного пробития достигнуто не было. "

              The link shows that the tests for bullet resistance and detonation were carried out in Germany ...
              Hence the conclusion, or do you think that Germany is not Europe
              or you deliberately lie and deceive readers, by your own stupidity or by the headstock of the west xs, but nevertheless the fact remains, YOU ARE LIEING!

              Quote: ak_12
              http://twower.livejournal.com/801601.htmlПосадка в СПМ (с фотографией и комментариями)

              The amateur commentaries never interested me.
              The Tiger even has a feed outlet, but Iveco doesn’t.

              By the way, it’s the pro-Westerners who scream that one fodder exit outweighs all the other advantages of other armored vehicles ... it’s enough to recall the BTR-80/90 saga where they vehemently proved that aft was the most important thing. Now, on the sides, the exit is from the western car, and in ours in the stern, the priorities immediately changed; now the exit to the stern is not important! and why? but because there are double standards ... Dear, if it’s easy for you to go around to all sorts of magazines and annals, it’s your problem, I, like some, are not subject to PR. I need facts, and the facts are 1) You are a LIAR! 2) and the Tiger landing is more preferable from the point of view of the West oddly enough 3) Ergonomics and the location of the landing of the tiger would be better 4) The armor resistance of the tiger 6A is not worse than that of Iveco / Lynx.
              And many many others.

              Quote: ak_12
              When will the manufacturer of the armored vehicle VPK-233114 "Tiger-M" bother to install the armor protection of the machine gunner?

              Draste ... are you sick at all? the question is rather rhetorical.
              Either you are a complete LIH or you are completely unaware of the topic of absolute O_O.
              In general, it is Iveco that goes without a protective turret, all this turret with bulletproof armor was made IN RUSSIA as additional equipment AT YOUR OWN ACCOUNT !!! we are MODIFYING Iveco.
              And only the patient can think that what was created in Russia for ivec can not be created for the tiger if necessary, and even the current patient will make a claim that our tiger is not protected by a turret, unlike the ivec which is EXACTLY not protected, we repeat this ourselves.
              In general, I’m in some bewilderment ... as I understand it, I’m talking to a person under the age of 18-20 who has seen enough pictures and there’s no comment of any personal experience to be more objective.


              Quote: ak_12
              Test video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQ68_kjqqU Enemy HMMWV will be the first to stand. Behind them are the biaxial Urals, and only then the Lynx. And here is such a "Lynx" with increased ground clearance (cars of the new standard IVECO plans to start production this year):

              Oh my god .. fool You even never seemed to be driving.
              The video clearly shows that Iveco has less cross-country ability than the Tiger, this time!
              Two! it’s that the Urals will not stand up, unlike your opinion, there are people who drive cars and are aware of the terrain of the Urals ... and unlike you, people on the video just say that the Urals with their high wheels and clearance would never be stuck there, then they will tell you that the Urals drove slower than the tiger only because it is URAL - Truck and has exactly this speed when crossing roads / fields of poor patency. Moreover, it is the Urals, when everyone is stuck, they will pull out and tow everyone.
              You will live a little longer, train by car and then you will understand what was in the video.

              Quote: ak_12
              Most likely it will get stuck after the "Tiger" gets stuck.

              I understood the opinion of the amateur and the schoolboy ...
              Opinions of people over 25 will clearly be in favor of the Tiger on cross.
              And in general, to challenge the Tiger’s higher passability than Iveco was extremely stupid and showed how incompetent you are.
  2. vadimus
    +1
    28 May 2012 09: 20
    Take away the heart, and the potential cannot be taken away from us ...
    1. -1
      28 May 2012 10: 42
      who about what, and bald about a hairbrush.
    2. +2
      28 May 2012 11: 37
      ++++! ! ! To the count of him!
  3. +10
    28 May 2012 09: 35
    It turns out that I had a better opinion of the Voronezh "screwdriver" production.
    And for those who argue that Lynx is bought in order to learn from production experience. What do we adopt? Experience attaching a spare wheel to the body, winches and hood? Are we so degraded that even such an experience needs to be adopted?
    1. +2
      28 May 2012 16: 26
      Well, something like this....
      Putin needed three viburnum for a PR action ...
  4. beech
    +5
    28 May 2012 09: 46
    why did they seize on this lynx !!! Stuck grandmother to cut !!! After all, even a first-grader is clear, it is better to release tigers !!!

    comrades, tell me who knows, why in the army are these armored vehicles, I understand they are in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, special forces, and why are they being driven into the army ?? if they are trying to replace the UAZs, then this is unrealistic, if for command, then in wartime the command is transferred to armored personnel carriers, where is the niche for this machine ?? Thanks in advance
    1. -4
      28 May 2012 10: 01
      How fast are tigers releasing and what is the need for troops?
      And once again I will remind that Arzamas which is a private company produces.
      1. -3
        28 May 2012 12: 48
        Tigers go mainly to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and not to the troops!
    2. -3
      28 May 2012 10: 45
      our army in the North Caucasus performs police functions, that tanks need to ride and surround 1-2 bandits.
      1. -2
        28 May 2012 10: 52
        namely, he is in every way safer than an APC
      2. Splin
        +2
        28 May 2012 22: 13
        Is the Russian army so rich that it can afford to buy a light armored car, the whole advantage of which, in a one-time defense of a fighter about undermining, and cost as much as a full-fledged fighting machine? I can agree that a light armored car as an army class is needed, but of a type like Turkish Cobra, French VBL, with a stretch of Ukrainian Dozor-B. Moreover, the Turkish car here is the most successful example.
    3. radikdan79
      +4
      28 May 2012 11: 24
      beech,
      ... a multi-purpose vehicle intended for the transport of personnel and goods on public roads and outside of them ...
      the fact is that if you book a "UAZ", then it is practically impossible to install weapons on it (well, except perhaps for the PC) without deteriorating mobility. cars of IVECO 65 class (HMMWV, GAZ 2330 "Tiger") allow it. in addition, the design theoretically makes it possible to install various modules on the base chassis, thereby providing a variety of vehicle equipment. the area of ​​application from the command and staff and sanitary to the carrier of anti-tank systems and air defense systems ...
      1. beech
        0
        28 May 2012 12: 25
        radikdan79
        Thanks, explained))
        1. radikdan79
          +1
          28 May 2012 16: 48
          sure, not a problem. Always happy.
    4. Cadet787
      +1
      29 May 2012 01: 04
      Or maybe you should not rush and carefully look at our BRDM-2, how is it fundamentally different from these animals? Put a good diesel engine, fire control system, in addition, it is also floating i.e. carry out deep modernization. It will cost much cheaper. Money loves an account.
  5. Ataturk
    +9
    28 May 2012 10: 10
    Long live the VOVAZIK))))



    and of course, Russian beauty



    I swear I would buy it, 4 pioneer speakers ... 1 bass pioneer. neon lights below ... super tuning, and good bye hamer. leather interior would have done.

    I would muddle some kind of disc under the order. In short, this car has potential not only in the army.

    And those who live in a farm and in the mountains, outside the city, then this car is just a class.
    1. +2
      28 May 2012 10: 34
      2 Lyama and he is yours without reservation
      1. Ataturk
        +3
        28 May 2012 11: 03
        WOW, how much is 2 lem in euro?
        1. Aleksey67
          +1
          28 May 2012 11: 08
          Quote: Ataturk
          WOW, how much is 2 lem in euro?

          A little over 50
          1. Ataturk
            +4
            28 May 2012 11: 16
            Thank you. Super price! For such a beauty, this is a great price. I would take it than Hamer or something like that. I love jeeps. At the X5 itself, but I would not refuse such a handsome man.
            1. M. Peter
              0
              31 May 2012 21: 48
              Quote: Ataturk
              Thank you. Super price! For such a beauty, this is a great price. I would take it than Hamer or something like that. I love jeeps. At the X5 itself, but I would not refuse such a handsome man.

              Well, the civilian tiger has long been.
              By the way, handling is generally super ...
              In Altai, I once tried it, through the snow, by the way, the feeling is indescribable. laughing
    2. rinzhak
      +7
      28 May 2012 10: 42
      Quote: Ataturk
      I swear I would buy it, 4 pioneer speakers ... 1 bass pioneer. neon lights below ... super tuning, and good bye hamer. leather interior would have done.

      I would muddle some kind of disc under the order. In short, this car has potential not only in the army.

      And those who live in a farm and in the mountains, outside the city, then this car is just a class.

      no need to make devils out of army vehicles ... A tuned UAZ and "Tiger" is ugliness.
      But still, can the Tiger be considered a replacement for UAZ, in terms of total weight it is already a truck weighing more than 3500 kg, and it would be more logical to consider it a replacement for the BRDM. But I think UAZ is not worth changing, the only thing is to restore the old interior and dashboard appearance, as it was on 469, but just install a good diesel engine and think about the corrosion protection of the body, otherwise they will rot like cans ..
      1. Ataturk
        +3
        28 May 2012 11: 09
        Quote: rinzhak
        Tuned UAZ and "Tiger" are ugliness.


        ARE YOU SURE?

        This is a tiger




        And IF GIVE HANDS, IT IS GALENVAGEN



        The last little work, and GALENVAGEN resting. Believe me, it’s not rumored that I know what a good UAZ is capable of !!!
        1. -4
          28 May 2012 11: 14
          the fact that he was taken out into separate categories in the trophy Schaub was not very sad looking at the patrols and Kruzak prepared)))))
        2. rinzhak
          -1
          28 May 2012 11: 17
          so what is it? No.
          what is this shapeless box in the first photo ...
          what kind of canopies are because of which UAZ is not visible in the second photo ...
          what kind of stupid plastic muzzle and pipe bumper. I can not stand it when UAZ mounts these high seats with head restraints, and the plastic panel I just want to pull out and throw it all away. I hate plastic on UAZ angry
      2. radikdan79
        +3
        28 May 2012 11: 32
        rinzhak,
        and there was also such a UAZ-3172. promising machine to replace the 469th "goat". it's a pity they weren't allowed into production collapse of the union prevented
        1. rinzhak
          0
          28 May 2012 11: 42
          I don’t think that the Soviet Army and Navy would take such an UAZ into service in exchange for the 469th, the machine is not justified in design more complicated, and then many unnecessary decorative body decisions, which in the army are not unnecessary, sometimes even interfere.
          1. +1
            28 May 2012 11: 51
            so everyone calmed down, goat is replaced by scorpion LSHA

            http://twower.livejournal.com/807403.html вот обзор от Дениса Мокрушина.
            And Tigers and Lynxes are a different class
          2. radikdan79
            0
            28 May 2012 12: 09
            and what is "unreasonably more difficult" in your understanding? the use of gear axles with external (and not internal as on the 469th) gearing? so this is an increase in clearance (although by 30 mm, but it costs a lot); using a spring suspension instead of a spring one? so is the increase in suspension travel and the angle of intersection of bridges. I think it is not necessary to explain the purpose of the blocked cross-axle differentials ... all these measures made it possible to improve the cross-country ability in comparison with the 469th (which has far from the worst cross-country ability). the use of a transfer case with a differential drive of the driving axles (in contrast to the rigid connection of the front axle in the UAZ-469) allows to reduce the load on the gearbox of the driving axles. so all these complications are justified. the salon in the photo is not serial, but assembled according to the principle "from what it was" for sea trials. I think it would be different on production models (especially in the army they don't really like plastic in the cabin). and flat body panels are easier to repair (and armour) than curved panels on the 469. it would be a worthy replacement for the "goat". but it didn't work out ...
            1. rinzhak
              -2
              28 May 2012 13: 34
              Quote: radikdan79
              and what is "unreasonably more difficult" in your understanding?

              what you listed could well be implemented as part of a planned modernization without any significant change in the production cycle of the enterprise, including in the repair units of the Army and Navy. In addition, the UAZ 3172 has non-interchangeable components, which is not acceptable for the army, and then the time and scope of maintenance work is more than 469th. And of course the view! 3172, but it’s not at all military (rather, it’s something from the do-it-yourself series, or the magazine’s folk art Modeler Constructor mid 80s)
              1. radikdan79
                0
                28 May 2012 16: 27
                rinzhak,
                and what interchangeable units does the UAZ-469 have? and with what machines? only the engine from the "Volga" 24? and that is redone ...
              2. radikdan79
                0
                28 May 2012 16: 46
                rinzhak,
                what does "not military" mean? in my opinion, a simpler form for an army transporter is difficult to come up with (easier than in the 469th)
                1. rinzhak
                  +1
                  28 May 2012 17: 03
                  Quote: radikdan79
                  what does "not military" mean?

                  Well, look for yourself, well, aren’t they beauties ?!
                  1. radikdan79
                    +1
                    28 May 2012 17: 11
                    rinzhak,
                    Have you ever tried to "straighten" the front wing after "soft contact" with a birch at the training ground (so that the brigade commander does not insert a lug)? try it ... and take another look at the photo of the UAZ 3172. the body panels in it are more technological and simpler ...
                    1. rinzhak
                      +1
                      28 May 2012 17: 31
                      Quote: radikdan79
                      you have never tried to "adjust" the front wing after "soft contact" with a birch on the training ground (so that the brigade commander did not insert)? try ...

                      You know, I didn’t get "lyuly" from the commanders of the brigade, for me the biggest rank in the army was the battalion commander (when I passed the military service), and so the company commander interposed us. And also - for damage to vehicles, as a rule, it was not the commander of the military unit who inserted the lyuli. and the deputy commander of the regiment, not even the deputy commander for armaments. angry
                      and take another look at the photo of the UAZ 3172. the body panels in it are more technologically advanced and simpler ...
                      it’s necessary to ride more gently, then the broken birch trees will not have to be planted Yes
                      1. radikdan79
                        0
                        28 May 2012 17: 44
                        rinzhak,
                        laughing cleverly. just to see you did not encounter the REAL operation of vehicles in the army. birches are an example to make it easier to understand. but the restoration of damaged equipment after the exercises (thank God that is not in hostilities) is worth a lot.
                        and about "... you need to ride more gently ..." - what did you want from an 18-year-old recruit?
                      2. rinzhak
                        0
                        28 May 2012 17: 53
                        Quote: radikdan79
                        cleverly. just to see you did not encounter the REAL operation of vehicles in the army. birches are an example to make it easier to understand.
                        What are you ?! and I thought the joke was with the brigade commander what
                        collided operator-gunner in the BMP-2 was.
                        but the restoration of damaged equipment after the exercises (thank God that is not in hostilities) is worth a lot.
                        I don’t know where you served, we were instructed and checked carefully before the exercises, and there were no cases when the equipment failed in the exercises. Materiel must be taught more diligently ...
                        and about "... you need to ride more gently ..." - what did you want from an 18-year-old recruit?
                        - I don’t understand your question ...
                      3. radikdan79
                        0
                        28 May 2012 18: 01
                        rinzhak,
                        with the brigade commander - not a joke. here you were the gunner, and I was the driver (cardan, as we said). and there were emergency situations at the exercises (regardless of the knowledge of the mathematical part, so to speak the human factor (as it is now fashionable to say)). so I know not by hearsay what it means "... to bring the technique into proper form ..."
                      4. rinzhak
                        0
                        28 May 2012 18: 17
                        Quote: radikdan79
                        and I’m a driver (cardan, as we said).

                        it's good. we shouted your colleagues with "fuel oil", but I don’t know how it is with you in the repair platoon or in the mat. those. The security was accepted, we all helped the driver to the mechanic.
                        And what drove, ZIL 131 or GAZ 66?
                      5. radikdan79
                        0
                        28 May 2012 18: 24
                        rinzhak,
                        it was easier for you.
                        "URAL" -4320
                      6. rinzhak
                        0
                        28 May 2012 18: 38
                        Quote: radikdan79
                        it was easier for you.
                        "URAL" -4320

                        Bliiin cool car! he has a competent KAMAZ 740 engine, and unlike the 66th GAZik, there is no trouble with clogged breathers on the bridges ...
                        I was studying in the U category 4320 in the C category, by the way, for some reason it seemed to me too complicated to operate a heater with these toggle switches - their mother ..
                        and why, by the way, didn’t provide for switching the fluid coupling from the cab? it’s not convenient to get out of the cab before raising the ford and raise the hood, also when controlling the heater ...
                        although on the other hand, before overcoming the ford, you have to climb out anyway - isolate the battery what
                      7. radikdan79
                        +1
                        28 May 2012 18: 48
                        rinzhak,
                        the car is really cool. unpretentious and reliable (although not everything is so smooth about the Kamaz diesel engine). and with proper handling on the road will not let you down
                      8. rinzhak
                        0
                        28 May 2012 18: 50
                        Quote: radikdan79
                        (although about the Kamaz diesel not everything is so smooth)

                        and what is wrong with it? I think in comparison with YaMZ it is much more reliable ... Although it is better to ask KAMAZists
                      9. radikdan79
                        0
                        28 May 2012 19: 34
                        rinzhak,
                        he really doesn’t like idle speed (this of course applies to all our diesels, but especially to Kamaz-740)
                      10. radikdan79
                        0
                        28 May 2012 19: 39
                        rinzhak,
                        the hydraulic clutch is also turned off on Kamaz (raised the cab, the flag is in the "off" position and forward) fellow
          3. rinzhak
            0
            28 May 2012 12: 36
            whether it is beauty! and nothing more ...
    3. 0
      28 May 2012 15: 17
      Have you ever seen the assembly?
      1. 0
        28 May 2012 16: 32
        ))))) 100500.
        you can still say: UAZ, like an AK automatic, that would serve without fail, you need to disassemble to the base and do it constantly.
  6. 0
    28 May 2012 10: 24
    Good article. Very decent analysis and some emotion. The author is definitely "+". At the same time, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the state defense order will be dealt with by a service withdrawn from the RF Ministry of Defense and subordinate to the RF Government (curator Rogozin)
    The deal is clearly political in nature. This is indicated by the close relations of Putin and Berlusconi.
    And the last one, I would also gladly buy a civilian version of the "Tiger". Diesel in 6 liters, automatic torque converter for 6 gears, razdatka with center differential and lowering 1 to 4. Not a car - a DREAM No corn machine needed.
    1. 0
      28 May 2012 10: 53
      and then look at the consumption and price of diesel fuel get upset and buy a car.
      1. 0
        28 May 2012 16: 10
        I won't buy a car anymore. You have to drive an off-road vehicle on our roads. It is possible to ride an under-drive within the Moscow Ring Road. The Chevy Spark is an excellent car for traffic jams, and outside the Moscow Ring Road only on large wheels. Now the reconstruction of the M7 is in full swing. The road workers "dig troughs" the wheel can be left. It's slippery in winter. And then Kukuruznik 5.7 eats 95th no less.
  7. rinzhak
    0
    28 May 2012 10: 34
    here they are the minuses of an automatic transmission, to everything else on IVECO, as I noticed, there is no automatic change in tires, which ultimately affected the test run on snow-covered virgin snow.
    1. +1
      28 May 2012 10: 54
      + more driving experience
      + These jambs corrected.
    2. ak_12
      0
      28 May 2012 13: 48
      That test run on virgin snow where IVECO got stuck was carried out on combat-resistant wheels with zero tire pressure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQ68_kjqqU

      The centralized tire pressure change system at IVECO is:

      http://trucks.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=71469

      "From the IVECO defense plant in Bolzano, KAMAZ actually received two" multifunctional light-duty LMV vehicles. "They were cleared by customs as" other new vehicles with an engine with a working volume of more than 2500 cm ", with a 25 percent duty. The declared value is 26097780 rubles, or 600 thousand euros, 300 thousand euros per car!

      In addition to the cars themselves came a central priming system control valve, a fuel tank (apparently to be replaced after shelling tests) and a couple of diagnostic CDs.
  8. 0
    28 May 2012 10: 48
    show me a test for undermining a tiger, otherwise it’s all blah blah blah.
  9. radikdan79
    +3
    28 May 2012 11: 05
    at one time, the Ministry of Defense refused to purchase "Tiger" for the army due to the installation of the "Cummins" engine on it (machine). (now it is possible to install a diesel engine of the YaMZ-530 family). and here "Lynx" almost entirely consists of foreign components !!! such zeal of officials is incomprehensible ...
    How shoud I understand this? foreign car with the worst cross-country ability, problems with booking, etc. accept to supply the army (again, without any competition) ?! it turns out again work for "kickbacks" or big politics ...
    1. 0
      28 May 2012 11: 16
      At one time, the Ministry of Defense refused to purchase "Tiger" for the army due to the installation of the "Cummins
      this is a fairy tale machine then it was still raw
      with worse cross
      they were fixed
      booking issues
      is the tiger better?
      1. radikdan79
        +3
        28 May 2012 11: 37
        leon-iv,
        fixed the cross-country problems? - can you tell me where to look at the results of comparative tests of "corrected" machines and the same "Tigers"? and in the army review in Nizhny Tagil participated "changed" machines? ie for the Ministry of Internal Affairs the car is normal, but for the Ministry of Defense it is raw? somehow not logical. at least in the "Tiger" there are no unarmored gaps between the armor panels and holes in the doors in place of the mirror adjustment levers. I am not defending Tiger. it also has jambs. only the funds allocated for the purchase and adjustment of the Lynx screwdriver assembly can be used to improve domestic machines
        1. -2
          28 May 2012 11: 56
          Yes, I recommend to compare the cars that were tested and at the parade
          Ie for the Ministry of Internal Affairs the car is normal
          No, but she is better than nothing. Here is a review on it
          http://k-a-r-d-e-n.livejournal.com/17643.html
          Please provide a reservation scheme for the Tiger and Lynx and we will discuss in the context of crew protection
          That the tigers that the lynxes produce watch shops that are not related to the state and the Moscow Region as a customer can choose. And taking into account the need of the Ministry of Defense for armored cars, let everyone buy together
          1. radikdan79
            0
            28 May 2012 16: 39
            leon-iv,
            unfortunately, there is still no official (ie not pirated) version of the "AutoRevue" magazine # 8 (117) 2012 in the net. where quite in detail and simply tells about the Iveco LMV and its tests. if possible - read this article ("March Lynx"). very interesting, especially regarding the explosion test ... I have no right to use this article without the permission of the author (F. Lapshin).
            1. +1
              28 May 2012 17: 47
              unfortunately I read this is again a journalist who has nothing to do with the military. With a probability close to 100%, I am sure that the lynxes both shot and exploded very well.
              and here for me the key phrase
              In addition, within four years, Oboronservis plans to make half of the components domestic - through the creation of fifty-fifty joint ventures with Italians and Germans.
              And again, without reservation schemes, talking about weakened areas is a guile.
              And now in fact
              - we have 1 tiger that the military does not need, but they buy it out of desperation and are waiting for the Tiger M, which still has questions with the payload due to the increase in mass.
              - Scorpio is being developed
              - Lynx is being bought. Which in itself is not bad, because we simply didn’t have a similar class of armored vehicles + technology, and taking into account the general technological level of the automotive industry in our country is very, very not bad + I’m very likely to get discounts on the supply of machine tools and equipment
              1. radikdan79
                0
                28 May 2012 17: 55
                leon-iv,
                on that and decided - as soon as there are REAL booking schemes "Tiger" and "Lynx" we will immediately discuss it. that we did not have cars of this class before - I agree. and experience in the design and operation of such samples is necessary - this is a fact. just do not sing songs of praise to "western partners" (as well as eastern ones). after all, IT IS WORSE A SMART ENEMY ONLY A SLEEPY-ASS FRIEND ...
          2. 0
            30 May 2012 19: 39
            Quote: leon-iv
            Please provide a reservation scheme for the Tiger and Lynx and we will discuss in the context of crew protection

            Lynx. Here are just comments on the materials did not find :(
            1. +1
              30 May 2012 19: 48
              According to "Tiger" we can say for sure that his armor is not hung on the frame (like in "Lynx"), but is cooked entirely in an armored box.

              Independent suspension "Tiger" unified with the suspension of the BTR-80
              1. +2
                30 May 2012 19: 53
                Civil "Tiger", driver's seat
      2. beech
        0
        28 May 2012 12: 27
        At one time, the Ministry of Defense refused to purchase "Tiger" for the army due to the installation of the "Cummins" engine on it (the car) - Yeah, and the car made all over NATO, this is normal, we will buy, besides, now they are installing yamz on tigers !!
  10. Dust
    +2
    28 May 2012 14: 11
    No matter how good the Lynx is, pushing it for such a screwdriver assembly is still a crime!
    But the Lynx is not very good, besides ...
    1. 0
      28 May 2012 14: 15
      And why is it worse?
  11. borisst64
    0
    28 May 2012 14: 12
    Assessment of the combat qualities of this machine should be given by drivers and fighters after real combat operations.
  12. 0
    28 May 2012 15: 21
    I recommend everyone to read the rating of "Tiger" - and then broadcast about how good he is

    http://k-a-r-d-e-n.livejournal.com/17643.html
    1. -2
      28 May 2012 16: 41
      the phrase will go to the people;
      “The diesel is American. And the assembly is ours anyway. ”

      how all this is sick of it! Well, at least overseas Lynx, I hope they will.
    2. radikdan79
      0
      28 May 2012 16: 58
      Pimply,
      Yes, no one says that "Tiger" is the most super-duper ... it is just not worth spending millions of budget funds on a "overseas miracle", which is far from being a "miracle" ... maybe enough to feed foreign manufacturers? Wouldn't it be better to direct the allocated funds to the development of the domestic military-industrial complex?
      "... and if tomorrow is war, and if tomorrow is in battle ..." where will we get repair kits? in China (which does everything)?
      1. +1
        28 May 2012 17: 35
        Well, yes, it’s better to feed our bribe takers.
        Until they work out a beautiful idea: sawed off from the defense industry - sat down for treason, with confiscation, we will have a reason to discuss the degree of riencornation t72 and other similar topics. I hope those lards that will "master" by 2020 will turn into something tangible, at least into the same Lynx. Itself would have sat down for such a car with pleasure. And for this hour and for that, thank you that footcloths are a thing of the past, and this is in the XXI century! Armament war is a pragmatic thing and not inclined to hurray-patriotism.
        At the expense of China. Thanks to Amers for the Lend-Lease chocolate and stew. Although they are devils, not decent, but in that war the Allies. If, in the future, the cards will lie in alliance between Russia and China, then so be it. An ally, not a red girl, it is not necessary to "kiss on the gums".
        1. radikdan79
          -1
          28 May 2012 17: 46
          dmitreach,
          I agree. if only then the ally would not shoot in the back ...
          1. +2
            28 May 2012 18: 21
            radikdan79, this is a very philosophical fabrication ...
            The Americans, at different times, shot in the back and the legendary Varangian did.
            I'm not talking about the French in 1812 and other Italians with the Germans, with whom we fought for the present. So an ally is not a reliable and momentary thing, depending on Our National interests, on our oil and their appetites. Today it seems like India and Germany seem to be friends, but what will happen tomorrow ... I mean, it’s criminal not to use the real state of affairs today, thinking about tomorrow. It turns out that the Italian Lynx is a profitable solution when its own military-industrial complex resembles a saboteur during the Second World War. And what is most disgusting was the first "shot in the back of the military", in the 90s, by the Government of the Russian Federation. Well, if the topic is further developed, then the Civil War can also be remembered, but that is another story.
            I recommend reading Bulgakov's "Running".
            This is all to the fact that China is not our enemy. For now.
            1. radikdan79
              0
              28 May 2012 18: 26
              dmitreach,
              yes, there is something in it good
              1. 0
                28 May 2012 18: 44
                Thanks for understanding. if only the Antonov Design Bureau (Mriya) and the Nikolaev shipyards were put on their feet.
        2. -1
          28 May 2012 17: 56
          China in the future is a much more likely opponent than an ally. Potential allies for Russia are India, Vietnam, a number of other East Asian countries, which are not satisfied with the growing hegemony of China. And, no matter how blasphemous it may sound to the majority on this site - the West. First of all, France, Italy, Spain, to a lesser Germany
      2. +1
        28 May 2012 17: 53
        You know, before the domestic military industrial complex gives birth to something intelligible and worthy, years will pass. And regular explosions and shelling of vehicles throughout the Caucasus is such an extremely unpleasant stability and TODAY'S DAY.

        Read the same Cardin on the operation of another machine.

        http://k-a-r-d-e-n.livejournal.com/24477.html

        To save the lives of soldiers and police need to have now, not tomorrow.

        Huge funds are allocated for the development of the domestic military industrial complex, and only the return from this is minimal. Damn, Kalash was once on most parameters the best gun in the world. And now? They had purchased the latest machines that had been idle for several years. Great, huh? And then the output is such products that even stop, at least fall. Modernization of the same AK can not be carried out normally already FIG know how many years, so that the automatic corresponded to today.

        Do you know what else the Russian military industrial complex is famous for? Interestingness, inability to today, poor quality of service and assembly, bureaucracy. And only a few companies have learned to move: the glory of Gd, the proportion of such growing.

        Do you really think that in the near future there will be a war with Europe? And China, consider our strategic partner?
        1. radikdan79
          -1
          28 May 2012 18: 12
          Pimply,
          I don’t think so, but as they say, everything happens in life. and you must be ready for everything (as it is not sad). Yes, our military-industrial complex is far from ideal (bribery and bureaucracy are the same ballast). therefore, we are talking about the development of domestic enterprises operating in the military-industrial complex. if there are no domestic developments at least equal to foreign ones, it means buying licenses, building joint ventures. just so that it would all be civilized and aimed at the future (and not so much that you liked to buy it without carrying out a COMPARATIVE TEST COMPARATIVE TEST with similar samples). I have said this more than once. if you buy - the best !!!
          1. 0
            28 May 2012 18: 21
            So the contract with Iveco also involves the purchase of licenses, localization of production, etc. As well as the contract with "Mistral". Moreover, after these contracts, manufacturers began to stir, and even (!) Began to develop equipment on their own initiative. Have you not seen the terms of the main contract anywhere?
            1. 0
              28 May 2012 18: 26
              So far they have not poked a stick into this anthill, because they have not moved for the good of the Motherland. The same Tiger originally ordered the UAE ... So much for the love of the motherland / and its money.
            2. radikdan79
              0
              28 May 2012 18: 31
              Pimply,
              about the "Mistral" - I agree. 2 ships are made by the French, 2 by us. and even the command and control system "Zenith" -9 to boot. but with regard to Iveco, not everything is so simple - the car is an international product and does not have the rights to all the Iveco know-how ...
              1. 0
                28 May 2012 18: 54
                Well, you have to start somewhere. You can still say Alaverdi: IVECO has rights to something. and with the Germans we have a mutual understanding with mutual cooperation.
  13. Gren9
    -1
    28 May 2012 17: 10
    You are strange. There is an article on the same site
    http://topwar.ru/8338-vot-takaya-divnaya-mashina.html
    And the most important comment:
    "IF YOU SAVED AT LEAST ONE OF OUR FIGHTERS THEN THIS MACHINE JUSTIFIED FOR ITSELF."
  14. 0
    28 May 2012 18: 04
    The experts on the explosion safety of machines found the same .... Italians ... just laughter. Whoever has experience is from the Yuarovites ... our specialists taught them how to defend themselves.
    1. +1
      28 May 2012 18: 08
      South Africa has good cars. But connections with Italy were better, and throughout, there were a number of package deals. Iveco also proved itself quite well in recent wars is not from the worst side.
  15. -1
    28 May 2012 18: 18
    Designers and production workers completed the car according to the specifications of the Ministry of Defense ... wrote the comfort of the cart ... received, and wrote a span with springs, then would get a span. Most of our roads have the term direction and winter more than six months. Part of that ... receive courier delivery will be from abroad. And only there will be a demand for them, the price tag will become just gold. The price of a part in a car assembly is one, the price of a part at retail for a spare part is much higher.
  16. +2
    28 May 2012 22: 29
    After the explosion of IVECO, it seems to me that the crew will no longer care. Judging by the frames, there will be excess pressure in the cabin. But barotrauma is not a comic thing.
    The only plus is a quick identification.
    1. ak_12
      0
      30 May 2012 00: 25
      Britain equips its special forces and infantry with a new armored car, a four-ton Supacat 4x4. It is reserved from below to protect the crew from mines, but is almost completely open from above:



      They were blown up on this miracle with mine protection in Afghanistan. As a rule, the one under whose wheel the detonation dies. The further your seat is from the point of detonation, the more likely you are to stay alive. What about IVECO LMV, practice has shown that most often the machine gunner sticking out in the hatch is killed during explosions. Therefore, recently, IVECO LMVs have been so popular without a healthy round hatch, but with remotely controlled installations. But a remotely controlled weapon module is expensive. The Austrians signed a contract for the supply of LMVs almost simultaneously with us, they are installing an Israeli machine-gun module, each machine costs them 800 thousand euros ... However, what can I say, there is still no machine gunner on the domestic "Tigers" for armor protection, and they have protection against detonation designed for 200 grams of TNT.
  17. Drcoks
    0
    30 May 2012 08: 19
    People explain why the heck they are needed? I don’t get it, that's all. to go from headquarters to headquarters? or did the armored personnel carrier become so bad?