Why "Armata" did not go to the troops

170
Campaign to promote promising Russian troops tank “Armata” has recently taken an unexpected turn. Statement by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov at the end of July (“... why flood all the armed forces with Armata, our T-72 is in great demand in the market, everyone takes it ...”) about the inappropriate procurement of the Armata tank for the army its high cost was unexpected for many.





After winning statements at the highest level about the creation of a promising tank, it suddenly became clear that it was not really necessary for the army. It was previously announced the planned purchase of 2300 tanks, then this number was reduced to 100 tanks; Now they are talking about purchasing an experimental batch of 20 tanks. In addition, according to the Ministry of Defense, in the 2018-2019 years it is planned to purchase only the upgraded T-80 and T-90 tanks.

A natural question arises: what happened and why the plans for this tank changed so drastically?

I can assume that the matter here is not only in the cost of the tank, apparently there are organizational and technical problems. The whole epic with the tank "Armata" - from the rejection of this project by the military at the beginning of development to the rapid production of an experimental batch - raises many questions.

It is still unclear whether the full cycle of factory and state tests envisaged by the standards was carried out, whether the tank accepted the interdepartmental commission and the most important question: whether this tank was adopted by the Russian army or not.

Without holding these events, talking about the creation of a tank is not serious, but for some reason there is no reliable information on these issues. It is only known that such a tank has been developed, has undergone some tests, a small batch of tanks is shown from 2015 on parade on Red Square, and various officials verbally state that it is about to be launched into mass production. Also, little is known about the technical characteristics of the tank, information is mostly sketchy and often contradictory.

It should be recalled that the former Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who was replaced by General Yuri Borisov in April of this year, was actively promoting this tank. It is not excluded that the new Deputy Prime Minister decided to carry out the actions provided for by the regulatory documents on the full test cycle of the tank and after that take the final decision on his fate.

If the entire test cycle was carried out, and the specified characteristics of the tank were confirmed, before the start of mass production, as was customary earlier, it was possible that they decided to carry out complex troop tests. They check the car in real conditions of operation in the army, drive it through different climatic zones and make sure that it meets the specified requirements.

History The development of this tank was not so simple. The start of work was announced in 2011, although this concept of the tank was discussed earlier. There were a lot of questions about this concept, and, as I recall, the military did not approve of it. Then, somehow, a batch of such vehicles was quickly manufactured, and everyone announced the creation of a fundamentally new tank. In such a short period of time it is difficult to go through all the stages of development and testing, especially since several dozens of different organizations had to deal with this.

The events occurring around “Almaty” mean that a fundamentally new machine is not so easy to be born, there are too many new nodes and systems in it that require appropriate refinement and testing. On the tank everything is new: the power plant, the gun, sighting systems, the protection system, TIUS, ammunition, the control system of the tank unit. All this is developed by different organizations, and with the failure of work on some node or system of the tank as a whole will not.

Of course, a promising tank for the army is needed, after the T-64 the tank of the new generation did not appear. An attempt to create such a tank in the framework of the “Boxer” project in connection with the collapse of the Union was not fully completed, and other proposals were limited only to the modernization of the existing generation of tanks and did not receive development.

The Armata project is truly a new generation tank project. Yes, the concept of this tank has a significant disadvantage, but we must look for ways to eliminate it and get a new quality. In this tank, too many new ideas, developed in previous years through the systems and units of the tank, are implemented, and they should not die.

According to the concept of the Armata, there are many different opinions, and at the very beginning of its development I had to debate on the Internet with Murakhovsky, an ardent supporter of everything, whatever Uralvagonzavod would develop. Our opinions diverged. When evaluating any technical solution, at least, one should strive for objectivity, regardless of likes or dislikes of the structures offering it, which is not always the case.

“Armata” has one fundamental technical solution, which calls into question the whole concept of the tank. This is an uninhabited tower, controlled only by electro-optical means. With this layout of the tank, two problems arise: low reliability of control of all tower systems using only electrical signals and the impossibility of implementing an optical channel for observing, aiming and firing from a tank.

The control of all turret systems using only electrical signals sharply reduces the reliability of the entire tank as a whole. When a power supply system or its individual elements fail, it becomes completely non-viable.

The tank is a battlefield combat vehicle, and there is more than enough power loss. In addition, there is a weak link in the power supply system: a rotating contact device located on the bottom in the center of the tank, through which all power supply to the tower is provided.

All the talk about the same thing being done on airplanes does not hold water. The aircraft is not a tank, and its conditions of operation are the most severe. In addition, to provide 3- and 4-fold redundancy is too expensive for a tank, and it is almost impossible to do so.

The problem of VKU in a tank is a pretty serious question. For example, when upgrading the American tank M1A2 SEP v.4, they try to solve this problem by non-traditional methods of transmitting signals through devices in pursuit of a tower, allowing to ensure reliable and interference-free transmission of signals to the tower.

In the adopted layout, the image from the observation and aiming devices can be transmitted to the crew members only by an electronic tele, heat, radar video signal. Most experts are inclined to the impossibility of providing modern electron-optical systems with the same level of visibility as traditional optical channels.

Electronic means of video transmission and three-dimensional image have not yet reached the level of resolution of the optical channel. Therefore, the sighting system without such a channel will have certain disadvantages. In this regard, the tanker “Boxer” with the full duplication of the actions of the gunner and the commander, we additionally installed the simplest double-gun sight for firing in case of failure of all systems of the tank.

Conducted experiments on the use of only a television channel for driving a tank showed that because of the flat television picture, it was almost impossible to conduct a tank. The driver did not feel the track, the slightest obstacle, even in the form of a puddle, put him in a dead end and did not allow him to assess the terrain.

This problem of constructing a circular volumetric image has not been solved. Closest to her decision on the Israeli tank "Merkava". In the Iron Vision system developed for the tank, which receives signals from many video cameras located around the tank’s perimeter, a three-dimensional picture is created via a computer and displayed on the helmet display of the operator.

About the work on the creation of a three-dimensional television image and unconventional ways of transmitting electrical signals to the tower in the framework of the development of the tank "Armat" nothing was heard. This lack of "Almaty" remained. He is very serious and can cast doubt on the whole project. To eliminate these shortcomings, it is necessary to conduct a cycle of development, research and testing, which will allow to evaluate all the pros and cons of such a tank concept.

This tank is trying to implement many promising developments of science and industry, obtained in previous years. It is possible to note interesting solutions for complex protection, when a curtain-type curtain-type curtain-type curtain system works against ATGM, and active defense is taken to remove armor-piercing projectiles with a dovorot tower, but how much is realizable with the enormous difference in speeds BPS and tower drive, still need to check .

The tank implements elements of a tank information control system, the concept of which I developed and laid into the tanker Boxer. Even after so many years, not everything can be realized. The main thing is that a tank division control system is implemented, which takes tanks to a completely different level, allowing them to interact in the course of the battle and provide the commander of various levels with the possibility of effective target designation and target distribution.

In general, the project "Armata" continued implementation of the network-centric tank, the concept of which was developed at the beginning of 80-x and laid in the tank "Boxer". With the collapse of the Union, the project could not be completed until years later, much is being implemented in the Armata tank, and individual systems of this tank can be used to upgrade the existing generation of tanks.

With all the problematic issues of the tank "Armata" it contains a number of promising solutions that really make it a tank of a new generation. Instead of propaganda campaigns with the display of the tank at parades, it is necessary to work out the concept of the tank, eliminate shortcomings and strive to realize all its advantages.
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  1. +2
    13 August 2018 05: 48
    General Tal once opposed the creation of a gas station in the MK-3 / 4 precisely because replacing a person in a tank is much easier than repairing it on the battlefield.
    1. -3
      13 August 2018 12: 07
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      General Tal once opposed the creation of a gas station in the MK-3 / 4 precisely because replacing a person in a tank is much easier than repairing it on the battlefield.

      Not only. With the modern development of technology "in the West" it is not difficult to develop a reliable AZ and reduce the crew by one person, but ... the entire burden of routine maintenance of the tank will fall on a smaller crew. You will not envy them even four of them, but three of them will generally die.

      Why "Armata" did not go to the troops

      He is not needed in this form in the army. Dear, complicated, unreliable, raw.
      1. +11
        13 August 2018 14: 54
        Quote: professor
        With the modern development of technology "in the West" it is not difficult to develop a reliable AZ and reduce the crew by one person

        It’s just a hoax to combine the automatic loader with the HABITATED tower - it’s also hemorrhoids, just not everyone could do it. The mind was not enough.
        1. -7
          13 August 2018 17: 45
          Quote: Setrac
          Quote: professor
          With the modern development of technology "in the West" it is not difficult to develop a reliable AZ and reduce the crew by one person

          It’s just a hoax to combine the automatic loader with the HABITATED tower - it’s also hemorrhoids, just not everyone could do it. The mind was not enough.

          Yeah. Did the Americans and Germans try for a long time and fail? Could automatic transmission, but AZ not mastered? Himself not funny?

          Quote: Bad
          Complete nonsense. Who is stopping the technical crew from doing aviation? No one bothers, except for established stereotypes.

          Life is in the way. A plane costs 10-20 times more expensive than a tank. So dozens of people serve it. And the tankers themselves carry the shells into the tank and pull the caterpillar themselves.
          1. +11
            13 August 2018 18: 01
            Quote: professor
            Himself is not funny?

            There is nothing funny here.
            Quote: professor
            Yeah. Did the Americans and Germans try for a long time and fail?

            In the world there are many things that some can do, while others not - no matter how they puffed up.
            I understand that in your understanding, Germans and Americans are bright elves - immortal and omnipotent - but these are only your delusions.
            1. -2
              13 August 2018 20: 37
              Quote: Setrac
              In the world there are many things that some can do, while others not - no matter how they puffed up.

              Yes. The backwardness of the Japanese, Germans and Americans in mechanics is known throughout the world. True? wink
              By the way, did the French make the first AZ? Were the bourgeois enough?

              Quote: Setrac
              I understand that in your understanding, Germans and Americans are bright elves - immortal and omnipotent - but these are only your delusions.

              You are absolutely right. Take, for example, their auto industry. In this example, it is clear to everyone that they will not pull the AZ.
              1. +4
                13 August 2018 20: 59
                Quote: professor
                Yes. The backwardness of the Japanese, Germans and Americans in mechanics is known throughout the world. True?

                You know better. No difference! Their "advancedness" did not prevent them from lagging behind the USSR in tank building.
                Quote: professor
                By the way, did the French make the first AZ? Were the bourgeois enough?

                Here you are categorically mistaken, the French were the first (although to whom I am lying - not the first) to put automatic and semi-automatic guns on the tanks, but this is completely at AZ or MZ. Although they had enough intelligence for AZ for their "leclerc".
                Quote: professor
                You are absolutely right. Take, for example, their auto industry. In this example, it is clear to everyone that they will not pull the AZ.

                Maybe sometime in the future.
                Let me remind you that on Western tanks, unitary ammunition, and on ours - separate loading.
                1. -8
                  14 August 2018 18: 19
                  Quote: Setrac
                  You know better. No difference! Their "advancedness" did not prevent them from lagging behind the USSR in tank building.

                  In the number of tanks really lagged behind. What Soviet tanks are suitable for, we have seen today in Syria.

                  Quote: Setrac
                  Here you are categorically mistaken, the French were the first (although to whom I am lying - not the first) to put automatic and semi-automatic guns on the tanks, but this is completely at AZ or MZ. Although they had enough intelligence for AZ for their "leclerc".

                  Well, of course. The steam engine was invented by the Artamonov brothers, radio Popov, and Soviet designers in the tank. wassat

                  Quote: Setrac
                  Maybe sometime in the future.
                  Let me remind you that on Western tanks, unitary ammunition, and on ours - separate loading.

                  Or maybe AZ is not interesting to them? He was interested in the French and they made a AZ for themselves, but he is simply not interested in others.
                  1. 0
                    15 August 2018 11: 07
                    Quote: professor
                    Well, of course. The steam engine was invented by the Artamonov brothers, radio Popov, and Soviet designers in the tank.

                    The first Drozd active defense system was installed on the T-55AD tank, and was put into service in 1983. "Drozd" - the first complex in the world, adopted for service and produced in series.

                    Popov was the first to demonstrate a practical radio on May 7, 1895.
                    Quote: professor
                    and others are simply not interested.

                    Others were going to buy KAZ "Trophy"
                  2. 0
                    21 August 2018 17: 45
                    Enlighten about the Artamon brothers and the engine, please.
              2. avt
                +1
                14 August 2018 11: 57
                Quote: professor
                Yes. The backwardness of the Japanese, Germans and Americans in mechanics is known throughout the world. True?

                bully Azrhenway! Professor! One day, VNNIGEP had a chance to get acquainted with the trophy patents of a gloomy German genius (with a Kaiser eagle and an eagle with a swastika) Since it was even saddened - this most gloomy genius patented everything by the campaign towards the middle of the last century in terms of mechanics. wassat bully
                1. 0
                  15 August 2018 15: 05
                  Quote: avt
                  Since it was even saddening - the campaign towards the middle of the last century in terms of mechanics, this same gloomy genius patented everything

                  The validity of a patent depends on the country of patenting, the subject of patenting and ranges from 5 to 35 years.
                  1. avt
                    0
                    16 August 2018 08: 14
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    The validity of a patent depends on the country of patenting, the subject of patenting and ranges from 5 to 35 years.

                    So what ? In your opinion, all paper media are burned in the archive so that no one sees them? bully
              3. +2
                14 August 2018 15: 37
                take something else - for example, generation 3+ nuclear reactors with thermal neutrons or any with fast request
        2. +1
          13 August 2018 20: 47
          Quote: Setrac
          It’s just a hoax to combine the automatic loader with the HABITATED tower - it’s also hemorrhoids, just not everyone could do it. The mind was not enough.


          Not all developed countries considered it necessary to use AZ on their tanks. And they didn’t use AZ, not because they didn’t have the mind to develop them, but because they didn’t have the mind to understand that AZ, along with its advantages, also has disadvantages.
          1. +1
            13 August 2018 21: 03
            Quote: NF68
            Not all developed countries considered it necessary to use AZ on their tanks. And they didn’t use AZ, not because they didn’t have the mind to develop them, but because they didn’t have the mind to understand that AZ, along with its advantages, also has disadvantages.

            I’m talking about this - I didn’t have enough mind to understand the importance of this component of the tank.
          2. 0
            15 August 2018 15: 31
            Quote: NF68
            And they didn’t use AZ, not because they didn’t have the mind to develop them, but because they didn’t have the mind to understand that AZ, along with its advantages, also has drawbacks.

            They probably did not have the mind to create such a AZ in which the advantages would compensate for all the shortcomings. After all, the Russians could not prohibit the flight of Western European technical thought.
            It is likely that the automatic loader was more expensive than the life of Hans, John or Joseph.
        3. 0
          19 August 2018 08: 47
          in fact, the Americans had as many as 3 prototypes with AZ.
          and they refused it for other reasons, but at the same time a rammer appeared somewhere.
      2. +10
        13 August 2018 16: 05
        Quote: professor
        it is not difficult to develop a reliable AZ and reduce the crew by one person, but ... the whole load on the routine maintenance of the tank will fall on a smaller crew. The four of them will not envy them, but the three of them will generally bend.

        Complete nonsense. Who is stopping the technical crew from doing aviation? No one bothers, except for established stereotypes.
        1. +4
          13 August 2018 16: 54
          Quote: Bad
          Complete nonsense. Who is stopping the technical crew from doing aviation?

          And in the field, too, carry a technical crew? For the same loading of shells, refueling, equipment positions?
          The fourth person in the crew is first and foremost additional hands for work in the field.
          1. 0
            14 August 2018 07: 57
            Yes, that’s right, and digging a trench, guarding, monitoring, and, if necessary, adjusting the fire.
            1. 0
              19 August 2018 09: 56
              it’s not even an archaic vision, it’s some kind of retrograde!
              instead of establishing coordination in the army, it is proposed to carry the 4th crew member
              so maybe even take on board the runway for air support, if necessary? and what, always with you, is it convenient?
          2. 0
            14 August 2018 15: 39
            call them not the technical crew, but the repair / supply squad / platoon / company ... request
          3. +1
            15 August 2018 15: 47
            Quote: Flotofil
            And in the field, too, carry a technical crew? For the same loading of shells, refueling, equipment positions?

            And how did it all get into the field?
        2. -1
          19 August 2018 15: 27
          ... back in 90 I read about the test of the tank (it was in the Caucasus, and the operator in Moscow .. The tank carried out commands - changed its place, turned, moved ... So many years have passed and as always ...
      3. avt
        +1
        14 August 2018 11: 53
        Quote: professor
        He is not needed in this form in the army. Dear, complicated, unreliable, raw.

        Massively yes. Here they will roll back on the military, and another 152 mm will be brought to acceptable parameters of reliability and "cost-effectiveness", then yes. Then you can change the 72nd. Again, manuals for operation for crews and generally use in the composition of dissimilar forces will work out. In the meantime, it’s just like during it HF mutated into the IS - it is at the HF stage.
      4. 0
        18 August 2018 10: 05
        The tank can wait, there are new developments and their first step is to launch in a series
      5. -2
        19 August 2018 19: 37
        T-14s are already being tested for a five-year period, at such a time in wartime new generations of tanks appear. The problem is possible in the prospects for development, in unmanned tanks, and which you need to go immediately to, perhaps this explains the slippage with the mass production of the T-14 .... The author's fear of the vulnerability of the T-14 due to electric drive control is untenable, the control is usually duplicated and even in triple ..., and capacious batteries can move the tank a certain distance, etc. ... The development of a combined arms tank has come to qualitative changes, both in tactics of use and
        requirements for performance characteristics, it’s not in a hurry with a quality study, because there is a qualitative change in all military science and technology with a new incomparable level ...
      6. -1
        20 August 2018 04: 42
        Yeah, you know better from Israel.))
    2. +3
      13 August 2018 20: 07
      Aaron hello, it seems to me that flooding the army with armatures, right now, really does not make much sense. Moreover, the new tank, as well as the new car, is not devoid of "childhood diseases". They will gradually adjust everything that is needed and it will be more ready for the mass series!
      And at the expense of the t-72, so this is the most warring tank in history, its modifications are already up to the t-90.
      It’s already like an ak-47, in a way, it’s exactly what everyone takes apart for grabbing like pies because it is simple, reliable and killer, that's all !!!
  2. +19
    13 August 2018 05: 50
    Such "mnogohodovochki" with new weapons, cast doubt on the following projects, in the form of cartoons. So it is impossible, I suppose, the money was not thrown in Siluan's?
  3. +22
    13 August 2018 06: 39
    Instead of propaganda campaigns with showing the tank in parades, it’s necessary to work out the concept of the tank, eliminate the shortcomings and achieve the realization of all its advantages

    That, as far as I know, I understand, now it’s being done (I don’t say how I know).
    And the fact that the project has gone "into the shadows", the fact that all and sundry have stopped calling about it - this is absolutely correct. For nefig. This is a weapon, not a toy Yes
    1. +2
      13 August 2018 07: 36
      With good friends, in some places near Moscow you can see a lot of interesting things in some areas of the land) they don’t particularly secret) and how cars operate at good speeds with closed hatches especially)))
      1. +5
        13 August 2018 07: 51
        Quote: cariperpaint
        With good acquaintances, in some places near Moscow on some plots of land you can see a lot of interesting things ...

        I have no such acquaintances. But there are others wink
    2. +8
      13 August 2018 11: 21
      Let's start from the end:
      In general, the Armata project continued the implementation of the network-centric tank,


      This is not entirely true. Or rather, not at all! The author confuses concepts automation management and interaction, including the exchange of information received in a closed system with the concept of network-centric systems that receive information from external sources in the same real time ...
      All our theorists and generals sin this ... They are mistaken, or pretend to be wrong ... We do not have network-centric systems providing information, its transmission, processing and use as target designation for destruction systems (weapons), control of the destruction of the enemy and all this in real time !!!
      Simpler: we do not even have simple network-centric links such as "UAV-Tank", "UAV-ACS", which provide external target designation and response (destruction of the enemy) in real time ... Only in air defense there is something similar when systems with different radii of detection are combined and exchange target designation, but they do not work covertly ...
      And most importantly! Not from total lag, but from neglect advances in technical progress, it is too early for us to have new technology (Su-57, T-14, "Coalition-SV", "Tornado-S" ....), which is based on the use of network-centric approaches ...
      It is necessary to create these network-centric systems first: We have executive components, but there are no information components and there is no interaction between them in real time ...
      And they tell you fairy tales with "puffing out your cheeks", listen further ....
      1. 0
        13 August 2018 13: 37
        Quote: VO3A
        And they tell you fairy tales with "puffing out your cheeks", listen further ....

        God be with him, if only to us! The trouble is, if the supreme is blowing in the ears!
        1. +1
          13 August 2018 15: 11
          I share your concerns ... I even got carried away a little ... We also have an information component ... We do not have only a concept for network-centric systems, and there is no understanding: what it is ... But these systems provide not only victory in local and in larger conflicts - they remove soldiers from the affected area, they provide data on the enemy without spotters and suicide bombers ... Everything is the same with us the old fashioned way, plus unnecessary toys in the form of a UAV with a remote control and robots on a string ..., who do not help to fight in modern warfare, and Syria confirms this in "full growth"!
        2. +3
          13 August 2018 17: 49
          Quote: uskrabut
          Quote: VO3A
          And they tell you fairy tales with "puffing out your cheeks", listen further ....

          God be with him, if only to us! The trouble is, if the supreme is blowing in the ears!

          Please note that nothing new has been adopted for armament, neither the T-14, nor the T-15, nor the Boomerang, nor the Shell, the list goes on. In which case our army will meet the adversary T-72 and BTR-80, but we are successfully selling T-90. Why old stuff, and someone new? Will it not happen as it did in 1941? I-15, I-153, I-16, BT-5, T-26, etc.
          1. +2
            13 August 2018 18: 11
            This year 30 t-90m and 31 t-80 bvm. With this 10 t90 from scratch and not modernization. This is not counting 72. Two bat.komplekt t-14, one t-15. 12 terminators. What does old junk mean?
            1. 0
              13 August 2018 23: 04
              Quote: cariperpaint
              This year 30 t-90m and 31 t-80 bvm. With this 10 t90 from scratch and not modernization. This is not counting 72. Two bat.komplekt t-14, one t-15. 12 terminators. What does old junk mean?

              Have you read my post carefully? T-14, T-15, BMPT - adopted?
            2. 0
              28 October 2018 14: 10
              Yes, everything is much simpler. Money is needed for development, but it was pulled away, and I still want to. And in a hurry with the pension reform, and with laws on additional taxes, and higher VAT, and with excise taxes on petroleum products, and with higher prices in the spring for gasoline and diesel fuel. All these are links of one chain. Especially great is the announcement where a machine gunner on an infantry fighting vehicle without education, etc. is required. to ensure law and order during public events. And here it’s interesting - he inherited with Armata Rogozin, and with the spaceport ... And everywhere is not to blame ...
      2. +7
        13 August 2018 15: 48
        The question is in the concept - in air defense there is also no ideal network-centrism, any information is primary, and secondary from external sources, with the exception of directly attached air defense systems, passes through the automatic transmission and arrives at the air defense system in the form of central control (tertiary information)
        And, most likely, this is right! The command post is always aware of what and whom it is shelling and who and whom it is interfering with.
        The automation of CB is also going the same way.
        "Ideal network centrism" makes such critical demands on intelligence, communication and information processing systems that no one, including the exceptional, can "digest" them at the current level of technological development.
        In the event of a real collision, all of their network-centric gadgets will run into the cluttered channels of information and intelligence and, by and large, loss of control.
        And you don’t need to tell me about the absolutely noise-immune Link and noise-like radar signals. In the conditions of the training ground, during the "war" with the Arabopapuans, it may be, but with the same China or, ugh, ugh, with the Russian Federation - it will not work!
        1. +1
          13 August 2018 16: 00
          "Ideal network centrism" makes such critical demands on intelligence, communication and information processing systems that no one, including the exceptional, can "digest" them at the current level of technological development.

          Ideal for the exceptional, and we have our own options ...
          There are a number of solutions, but no one is interested ... These are our achievements .. and may work tomorrow ...
        2. 0
          21 August 2018 07: 55
          but until this network-centrism has completely drowned itself out like that, we’re fighting not only with US-level armies, but also, for example, with Chechen fighters, and if there is network-centrism, there will be sabotage tactics to temporarily disable jammers so that it’s decisive the moment this network-centrism worked, it’s like why there is a cure for the common cold, but there is no cure for it
      3. -4
        22 November 2020 19: 37
        Quote: VO3A
        "UAV - ACS"

    3. 0
      13 August 2018 13: 38
      What enchanting stupidity!
      1. +1
        13 August 2018 13: 53
        Quote: DVTamga
        What enchanting stupidity!

        Che do not like it, huh? wink
    4. 0
      13 August 2018 22: 48
      as far as I know, I understand, now it’s done
      Here is the news that was opened)) You might think, before that, no one, or what did not! Everyone sat and waited .. This is primarily a business! In any form. Development is ongoing. At what not only in the Russian Federation! It's just that not everyone advertises raw projects. Well, what you knew about it initially, you can not say ..
  4. +10
    13 August 2018 07: 07
    It is a pity that Yuri Mikhailovich, speaking of the T-14 tank of the Armata platform, recalls only the Boxer project (object 477), completely ignoring object 195 (T-95) and object 460 (Black Eagle). What is the overall difference between the T-14 and the T-95 (object 195) ... Firstly, the abandonment of the widespread use of titanium, a significant replacement of it with steel (the weight of the T-95 with relief due to titanium was about 55 tons), secondly, replacing 152 mm 2A83 gun with 125 mm 2A82-1M and abandoning the auxiliary 30 mm 2A42 automatic cannon. In addition, when trying to "unify" the tank (T-14) and BMP (T-15), the developers had to modify the hull and solve a number of difficult tasks, due to sometimes conflicting decisions on the BMP and the tank. It is unlikely that such a "budget" and "universal platform" solution for the T-14 improved the characteristics of the machine. In addition, let us recall the revolutionary innovation with the armored capsule, where on the T-95 it was justified by a 152 mm cannon, and the ability to hit the enemy from a distance inaccessible to return fire. What we got on the T-14 at the moment.
    In this extremely innovative tank, all tank crew members are located in the front of the hull, in an isolated capsule, which should have allowed a dramatic increase in crew safety by separating it from the ammunition and fuel. At the same time, the design used the old loading system, which did not solve the main problem at all - if a projectile or rocket hit, the tank would still explode. Just next to the remains of the combat vehicle will roll and the armored capsule with the crew.
    There is another, but just a huge problem - for the effective work of the crew, the most advanced technical review systems and fire control systems are needed - sensors, video cameras, sensors, even a phased-array radar as on an 5 fighter. This is extremely necessary, since “in the old-fashioned way” with my own eyes through triplex or leaning out into the hatch, the crew simply cannot have an overview and aiming. And with the electronics in modern Russia, the misfortune is a hopeless lag from the West. As a result, almost all modern electronics Russia was forced to buy in the West. After the introduction of sanctions in 2014, this path was closed, and the advertised import substitution program has neither time, nor money, nor brains.
    Speaking about the Omsk project of the "Black Eagle" tank, I would like to emphasize such a technical solution as the removal of the automatic loader with part of the ammunition into the aft niche. This made it possible to create more comfortable conditions for the crew and increase the level of its security. I would like to hear from Yuri Mikhailovich his opinion on such a technical solution.
  5. +5
    13 August 2018 07: 32
    Yes, for what reason, damn it, everyone forgets in the words of this gentleman constantly what was said about large-scale production ???
    1. +5
      13 August 2018 07: 53
      Quote: cariperpaint
      everyone forgets in the words of this gentleman constantly what was said about large-scale production

      This is all ... journalists. To them, the more deep-fried, the greater the profit.

      Alas, it is almost impossible to get real information from our media. request
      1. 0
        14 August 2018 06: 14
        For real information, and they can plant. For espionage, for example. We had such a Grigory Pasko. The dark story. lol
      2. 0
        16 August 2018 17: 42
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        Alas, it is almost impossible to get real information from our media.

        good day dear! hi
        real?!?
        in this case, we are dealing not with real or real information, but with a stream of consciousness! wassat
        The article begins with outright delirium:
        "Statement of Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov at the end of July (" ... why flood all the armed forces with Armata, we have T-72s in great demand on the market, everyone takes it ... ") about the inexpediency of purchasing the Armata tank for the army in connection with its high cost, it was unexpected for many. "
        how from the fact that the author’s conclusion follows in parentheses, I think even the author himself will not be able to explain. how this can be connected with the fact that the T-14 tank was not intended as an MBT initially, again, is not clear.
        further from this starting nonsense some conclusions begin to be made .. extravaganza!
        as they say KG AM. request
  6. +15
    13 August 2018 07: 40
    With what fanfare in 2015 at the Victory Parade T-14, Boomerang, Kurganets-25, Coalition-SV swept. But they didn’t reach the troops. And the point is not only that the equipment is not ready for delivery to the troops, but that unfinished samples were rolled out for all to see. It was more important to hang out, and not really create a new technique.
    It's the same with the SU-57, with new destroyers, aircraft carriers, and transport planes. And if you remember the "ideal" state of the space industry and how many rockets crashed, then the conclusion suggests itself.
    Some show off and no progress! Science is destroyed, education is destroyed, cadres fled, but there are no new ones. In such a situation, for happiness there will be T-55, BTR-152 and ACS Acacia.
    If the country is in regression, the army cannot be in progress.
    1. -4
      13 August 2018 08: 12
      Yeah, "we will all die" ... Everything is known in comparison. And the catastrophe is not in Russian science and weapons, but exclusively in someone's heads. By the way, the veracity of the "cartoons" has already been confirmed by the Americans themselves, such are the unexpected nuances of the "universal collapse "...
      1. +13
        13 August 2018 10: 46
        They can say as much as they want what they believe, but this does not mean that they believe, and even more so that the "cartoons" are true ... And while we show "those who have no analogs in the world" in single copies, the same state employees are building equipment serially (well, unless that tanks are not mass-produced, although while Armata goes into production, some M2 will be the main US tank, I feel) ...
        Take even the factories that are supposed to produce equipment - UVZ (the creator of Armata) is in debt, the situation is muddy, and they do not work a full working week ... Kurgan residents with their "Kurganets" in general have been sitting for a Nth amount of time with wild losses, everyone want to bankrupt them through court ...
        1. +2
          13 August 2018 13: 18
          UVZ debts are in no way connected with the defense industry. Here it is. As for bankruptcy ... This is not fatal. After him, at least not so with debt will be flattened.
          1. +1
            14 August 2018 06: 41
            I don’t understand roofing felts, roofing felts don’t go - the bankruptcy of the military-industrial complex is not scary .... Ahem .... Because the state does not allow them to go bankrupt and plugs holes in their accounts from the budget! Otherwise (in case of bankruptcy) EVERYTHING that UVZ has will go under the hammer! THOSE. the receiver (unless, of course, UVZ buys the state corporation), in theory, will not be able to assemble the "Armata" (and anything in general), maybe all the machines, the building, patents, etc. will be with other people!
    2. +1
      13 August 2018 10: 03
      Do not panic .... everything will be fine.
      1. +1
        13 August 2018 13: 40
        Of course it will be! Or not.
    3. 0
      13 August 2018 22: 54
      And the thing is not only that the equipment is not ready for delivery to the troops
      Let's be realistic! The point is that the technique is not ready .. And the fact is that there is no technique! All the advantages of the aforementioned technique, at best, end in "grately" overestimated performance characteristics. That is, the task was simply to show .. In fact, there is nothing to show! Everything else, banal conspiracy theories .. New laws of Physics in the Russian Federation have not been invented. Everything else has already been experienced in one way or another before. There are no miracles.
      1. 0
        14 August 2018 02: 55
        Right Apparently everyone who saw her, touched, just used the galaperedol)))
  7. +4
    13 August 2018 07: 45
    There are no unsolvable problems in the "Armata", and military operation with subsequent fine-tuning will put it into operation, possibly change or improve some systems.
    Syria has shown that we still have time for a full debugging, and therefore we will hurry slowly wink
    1. 0
      13 August 2018 22: 58
      There are no unsolvable problems in "Armata"
      There is an unsolvable problem in the tank structure .. Weight! And so yes, even if you (obviously not the deputy of the chief developer of technologies for the Armed Forces) have enough "wisdom" to discuss technical issues .. I'm afraid to imagine who is really involved in defense technologies ..
  8. +2
    13 August 2018 08: 16
    In addition to the price, production may not be ready for the production of such a machine ... but it is crucial to modernize the T-90 using T-14 components ... especially the KAZ and the gun. For a good release, the BMP T-15 / Kurganinets25 and Boomerang are more important for our army. There are no heavy BMPs at all, but BMP-1/2 and BMP-3 and BTR-80/80 are in great need of replacement. And tanks during modernization will last another 30 years (When installing optics, SLAs, information exchange systems, and especially KAZ)
  9. +4
    13 August 2018 08: 40
    Everyone knows that Russia's military budget is almost ten times smaller than the US. However, Russia is creating new weapons. And, perhaps, now, the resource that was planned for the T-14 and T-50 goes to something more relevant?
    1. +3
      13 August 2018 08: 43
      Without producing modern equipment (at least in small quantities), production will degrade and will not be ready to develop further equipment ...
      1. -1
        13 August 2018 11: 36
        This is how production degrades - everyone buys new equipment and staff is trained.
  10. +2
    13 August 2018 08: 58
    There is no money, but ???
    And yet it turns, a new technique is not forgotten, according to normal it is brought to the necessary performance characteristics.
    Well, we didn’t have a war tomorrow and write off the good equipment of the past years, before it ceases to fulfill the tasks assigned to it ??? We’ll stay with guns instead of oil, and we still need to restore a lot from the previous economic, technological potential.
    You can’t be late too, and we don’t feel much trust in those in power ..... anyway, screaming. that everything is lost, prematurely.
    1. +1
      13 August 2018 13: 35
      Quote: rocket757
      You can’t be late too, and we don’t feel much trust in those in power

      what What a strange set of words? Those. you personally do not care about those in power began to rebuild the factories? And how many have already been commissioned?
      1. +3
        13 August 2018 14: 27
        Why ask ---- strange questions to ask. All citizens of the country pay taxes, work for ... everywhere shorter, which bring tax revenues to the budget, profits for business owners, etc. Those. the budget of both is earned by the citizens of the country, mainly.
        Shaw is incomprehensible here? Without the work of citizens, nothing of this would have happened .... nonsense about any different replacement of workers with robots or guest workers is not considered.
        And then just see who has what rights, how they fulfill and a very interesting question for responsibilities.
        And then to see what and where was spent ... hence the feeling that a lot has been wasted or just disappeared in the fog. On the fog, the names of many people close to the authorities and finances "emerge".
        When it’s hard for everyone, all together, the conversation will be different ... NECESSARY!
        When for the majority it is more difficult to go up the ascending order, and the "chosen ones" become richer and bolder, I want them ..... greenery is recalled, lampposts and so on
        1. +2
          13 August 2018 14: 45
          Are you rushing, or what?
  11. +2
    13 August 2018 08: 59
    In the USSR, too, a lot of "parade" equipment did not go to the troops due to technical problems or ambiguity / obsolescence of concepts. Offhand Tu-85 and M-50.
    And on an attempt to create a supertank with a high saturation of electronics "like on an airplane", the French with "Leclerc" were already burned.
    1. 0
      13 August 2018 13: 41
      Leclerc normal tank. Dear of course. From this and useless.
      1. 0
        19 August 2018 15: 32
        About that and speech. Expensive even for one of the strongest economies in Europe (despite the fact that France does not need much, the territory is not the same). And they do not take it for export because of the price.
        But you have to think about the price before, not after.
  12. BAI
    +11
    13 August 2018 09: 21
    I suspect there is a problem with foreign electronics components. And this problem arose because of sanctions. What is the mass production if components must be illegally purchased?
    1. +8
      13 August 2018 09: 39
      Problem, problem ..... yes you need to steal less, including to buy yachts and villas over the hill ...
      The problem was not formed yesterday, but when will it end ???
      He would have said that the moratorium should be lifted and all architects should cover their foreheads with a green brush! Only judges, who, investigators, prosecutors, committee members? On whose ration are the servants sitting?
      Accordingly, whoever has the green stuff, and whoever has all the tip-top!
      1. +1
        13 August 2018 09: 55
        Oh, enough of these fiery revolutionary speeches already !!! Well this does not work. Annoying everyone around! Do not understand the topic of conversation, do not want to figure out what the hell are you pushing your next fiery speeches with? What does the yacht, zelenka and other nonsense? What side does this machine have to do with it?
        1. +3
          13 August 2018 11: 59
          It’s naive to suppose that our home-grown business is very actively investing in the development of production and industry as a whole ... the majority simply make money, spend momentary expenses!
          The indicator is obvious why we have little restored from what was lost during the collapse.
          Obviously, they do not spend money on ephemeral goals for them, on the revival of a great Russia .... that means anywhere, just not here, yachts, villas, factories, clubs ... it’s just plain, visible.
          The argument is that everything is expensive with us, it is not profitable for business, it doesn’t roll .... they are the owners of this country and the conditions of non-favorable conditions are created the same. them!
          1. -2
            13 August 2018 13: 20
            Oh my god .... Well enough already ...
            1. -2
              13 August 2018 13: 39
              Quote: cariperpaint
              Enough already ...

              winked No no!!! Let him continue! So funny Yes good
              1. +1
                13 August 2018 14: 46
                Yes, I bombed the branch with this stream of thoughts))))
      2. -1
        13 August 2018 13: 37
        Quote: rocket757
        Only judges, who, investigators, prosecutors, committee members? On whose ration are the servants sitting?

        laughing You do not have a pearl masterpiece !!! good
    2. -3
      13 August 2018 11: 39
      With the accessories, contact Ruselectronics, they do almost everything.
      1. +2
        13 August 2018 12: 03
        Is this a joke?
        Is everything right and reasonable at such prices?
        This sales for an attempt to restore the production of electronic components does not roll, I hope so far.
        You have to buy too much imported and this is not really complicated, super-duper latest e-mail. Components.
        1. +1
          13 August 2018 13: 40
          Quote: rocket757
          You have to buy too much imported and this is not really complicated, super-duper latest e-mail. Components.

          laughing Well done! And how much did you purchase imported?
        2. 0
          13 August 2018 21: 35
          Go to their website and see who, what, and where they produce.
          1. +1
            13 August 2018 21: 57
            To be proud of the product of "our" manufacturers, where only the packaging and instructions are written with us! I am not against Chinese products, they help us out coolly, but this is all dumb and very often, just DANGEROUS!
  13. +1
    13 August 2018 10: 09
    It’s good that the attention to the T-14 and other models is quieting down, this noise and increased attention to new weapons is nothing. Tests are underway, modernization of existing equipment is also underway. The army, and any one should move further and new types of weapons are needed by about the 30s, but where do the new types of weapons suddenly come from nowhere ??? Russia is working hard on this now. I am sure everything will be fine with both Armata and the Su-57 and other types of weapons. We are armed and now have excellent military equipment, taking into account modernization.
  14. +2
    13 August 2018 10: 11
    Only very large visionary specialists can criticize (or praise) the project, in fact, without knowing anything about it, I, unfortunately, do not belong to such, although as a non-specialist I do not like the dimensions with a low weight (i.e. booked volume) and the ratio of length to width. But that's not the point - it's about mass production. The tank, no matter how "lamented" Yu. Borisov turned out to be relatively inexpensive and quite technically (and technologically) complete (taking into account the "origin" from the used ob. 195). It will be produced, judging by various information, in the amount of 100-250 pieces. per year, which is an acceptable minimum.
    About Borisov. This person, most likely, is a product of information war, which will not tell all sheer misinformation. Why misinformation? Because everything as a result turns out either "not at all like that" or "almost not like that", given that he is not being driven in vain, but is being promoted, apparently this is his main function for which he is appreciated.
  15. -2
    13 August 2018 11: 02
    Yes, everything is as usual - all achievements in the form of PR, one PR, nothing but PR. But no, I also drank and rolled back the budget money allocated for this.
    Transforming them into yachts and mansions overseas for "project managers"
    And the people with his memory, Dolly, will take a ride. They said the same, and even the cartoons showed - it means there is) The first channel will not lie)
    1. +2
      13 August 2018 12: 02
      Sawing becomes more difficult every year, in view of increasing control over costs, and projects other than Armata gora: Petrel, Avangard, Sarmat, Dagger, X 50 missile, hypersonic missile, medium-range airborne, hypersonic anti-ship missile "Zircon", air defense systems - ABM S 500, S 450 and S 600, tactical guided bombs from 250 to 3000 kilograms, unmanned attack vehicles, creation of a sixth generation fighter, a new bomber, production of 50 Tu 160M2, a new transport aircraft, creation of new artillery systems, underwater attack unmanned vehicles, the construction of new PALs and much more - this is all a priority than a fancy tank with a gun and ammunition, similar to the thousand T 72B3 tanks already in service.
      1. +3
        13 August 2018 15: 52
        I think it’s not a matter of price, but the fact that there was a lot of equipment there that wasn’t made in Russia, so, having lost access to this equipment, they begin to sing that the old Soviet trash was modernized 99 times no worse than modern developments.
        1. 0
          13 August 2018 21: 37
          And what could there be such a non-Russian one - that the purchases were moved?
          1. 0
            13 August 2018 22: 44
            Yes, I do not know. Most likely, thermal imagers are ali electronics of the OMS or radars.
            1. 0
              14 August 2018 22: 03
              Schwabe deals with thermal imagers like all optical systems - KRET radars.
  16. 0
    13 August 2018 11: 18
    Wash it was immediately clear. Make a simplified version. This is the norm in world tank building. Yes, and especially no money.
    1. -2
      13 August 2018 12: 03
      Tank forces need new ammunition, and they will go for the money.
      1. +1
        13 August 2018 13: 24
        But what's the point?) You still can’t load long ones at 72,80,90.
        1. +1
          13 August 2018 21: 38
          In T72B3, new ones will fit - within 780mm.
  17. +4
    13 August 2018 11: 47
    it is necessary to modernize the t-34-85 or switch to jihadmobiles (we have seen enough in Syria) and the Kalashnikovs can fight for another 200 years (sarcasm), some just need to steal less and start thinking about the country and the people. is, but everything is decided by "sticky, sweaty hands" in which all the wealth of our people remains.
    1. -3
      13 August 2018 13: 25
      The wealth of the people ... When the scoop of people comes out already ....
      1. +5
        13 August 2018 13: 39
        Not earlier than your guts wink
        1. +1
          13 August 2018 14: 51
          My gut is not an ephemeral substance) and the wealth of the people is from another opera. The wealth of man is what he does. No more and no less. It is your efforts, your work, your education. All that you invest in yourself. Your children. And not eternal chatter about the fact that someone owes you forever.
  18. +4
    13 August 2018 13: 18
    Let's see from this point of view. At one time, Tupolev went to the "sharashka" because his design bureau was the leader in the country in disrupting government assignments. What do we have? "Object 195" under Serdyukov was not allowed into the series, they say it was not glamorous. Converted to "Armata", missed 10 years. "Armata" came out too expensive, raw, etc., etc. Attention question! Who went to the bunk? The same situation is with the Su-57.
    1. +1
      13 August 2018 13: 49
      If there was a desire, then the dampness would be eliminated and the cost would be cheaper (as it was before, a normal working process). Armata tank is normal, with the Union would have been in the series. Now - is unlikely to reach the series. There are many reasons, and, apparently, economic, not the most basic. And the fact that not everyone understands this, so let the old patriarchic mummers rejoice that someone whispered something to them. You never know what they think). Her, and what if she whispers in her ear ?!
      1. +3
        13 August 2018 14: 31
        Quote: DVTamga
        There are many reasons, and, apparently, economic, not the most basic

        You're right. If earlier for a tanker it was enough to get a tractor driver’s level of education, now for mastering Almaty you need a full-fledged engineer with a higher education. But our army is not ready to teach every tankman at the pilot level.
        1. +4
          13 August 2018 17: 55
          Quote: scientist
          If earlier for a tanker it was enough to get a tractor driver’s level of education, now for mastering Almaty you need a full-fledged engineer with a higher education.

          that is, you want to say that the crowds of people on the street, buried in smartphones, have sacred knowledge inaccessible to the tractor driver? Or do you assume that in terms of complexity there everything is incredibly more complicated than Android? recourse
          1. +1
            13 August 2018 20: 31
            It is not a matter of complexity, although it is certainly present. The main problem is the habit of perceiving information and working with it.
            Secondly, there are a lot of electronic systems in Armet, the physics of which significantly differs from the basic level of training of tankers. Without a system of higher education, the button level of a contractor is clearly not suitable here.
            Quote: SanichSan
            the level of complexity there is incredibly more complicated than Android

            OS Androyd. created on the basis of Linux is not a very good example for irony. Because most Russian secure operating systems designed for the military are just created on the Linux kernel. I think that the operating systems of computers in Almaty are no exception. At the same time, it is rather difficult to teach students to work with various configurations of this OS at least at the level of a competent administrator.
            1. +1
              16 August 2018 18: 01
              Quote: scientist
              Secondly, there are a lot of electronic systems in Armet, the physics of which significantly differs from the basic level of training of tankers. Without a system of higher education, the button level of a contractor is clearly not suitable here.

              Of course, the qualifications of staff should be higher! however, given the modularity of the system, it is entirely possible that this has been taken into account. again on the example of smartphones, their repair is far from being only people with higher technical education Yes
              Considering the fact that the T-14 tank was not originally designed as an MBT and the replacement of the T-72 and T-90, it’s quite possible to prepare personnel from contract soldiers. there will not be many specialists. which, incidentally, as I understand it, is now being dealt with on a test batch received by the military.
              Quote: scientist
              OS Androyd. created on the basis of Linux is not a very good example for irony. Because most Russian secure operating systems designed for the military are just created on the Linux kernel. I think that the operating systems of computers in Almaty are no exception.

              very successful wink in any case, you caught a subtle hint.
              Quote: scientist
              At the same time, it is rather difficult to teach students to work with various configurations of this OS at least at the level of a competent administrator.

              Well, what can I tell you ... about 5 years ago there was a hurray-epic with a schoolboy who himself wrote the operating system. upon closer inspection, it turned out to be a rebuilt Linux kernel. if this was done by a student, then why cannot a technical specialist who will service the T-14 be able to do it? and by the way, most likely this will not fall into the competence of the tank service personnel. OS setup is a factory procedure. or do you and the T-14 tanks themselves will be extremely stupid people to collect? laughing

              and also recall one feature of the Linux OS. Yes, this OS is difficult to configure but in an already configured state it is very stable and reliable. also allows you to severely limit the capabilities of the user. admin's dream! Yes what you need for the tank.
              but to train the tankman what you need to click here, then here it will be broads, I think there will be no problems.
              PS
              again, I doubt very much that the T-14 will go to conscripts. with the same success one can lament about how difficult the plane is to control and no one in the troops can fly on it! laughing
            2. 0
              18 August 2018 16: 52
              > At the same time, it is quite difficult to teach students to work with various configurations of this OS, at least at the level of a competent administrator.

              come on ?!
              people that are already born with brains imprisoned for Windows and Makos?

              > yes, this OS is difficult to configure, but in the configured state it is very stable and reliable.

              it's just some kind of holiday!
              any OS is difficult to configure, because it is universal and extremely complex software. Just Windows has a bunch of hard-wired settings, which are difficult to change - that is, they achieve stability by limiting application scenarios.
              Although there are a lot of settings on Windows that are familiar to competent administrators, they are simply not made in self-documenting configuration files, but in the register, the documentation for which is, for the most part, only for MS
        2. -1
          19 August 2018 15: 40
          ... but it might be better not to let the enemy into a tank shot at all, then this armata will not be needed at all ...
      2. +4
        13 August 2018 15: 50
        It seems to me that the problem is that much of the equipment in Armata and SU57 is clearly not Made in Russia. And having lost access to it, we began to sing about the fact that Soviet 99 times modernized remnants were no worse than
  19. The comment was deleted.
    1. -1
      13 August 2018 15: 01
      The same thing in other browsers
  20. +6
    13 August 2018 14: 25
    How many years have I read the discussion of topics raised and it’s always the same thing, the forum usually discusses not what has been raised, but what is most useful for those who read it)))
    It’s more painful that there won’t be mass purchases of Armat! A simple thought, and whether it is necessary, almost no one wants to consider! This subject of discussion needs to be known or to try to learn more about it ...
    Even a bit
    1. +1
      13 August 2018 14: 58
      I wonder why so many tanks Cuba? They have less regular buses.
    2. 0
      13 August 2018 16: 59
      Quote: Cynic
      It’s more painful that there won’t be mass purchases of Armat! A simple thought, and whether it is necessary, almost no one wants to consider!

      The most interesting thing is that it was said from the very beginning that there will not be a massive Armata tank. A quality gain tank - yes. But the rearmament of all linear units was not planned for it.
      Even the USSR was not able to re-equip all armored vehicles with the "elite" T-64 - it was necessary to make first a simplified version of the T-64 (the production of which Tagil successfully shook off), and then - a cheap mass T-72.
  21. +5
    13 August 2018 14: 25
    Controlling all the tower systems only with the help of electrical signals dramatically reduces the reliability of the entire tank as a whole.

    I did not expect to see in the 21st century the opinion that mechanics are more reliable than electronics. The author clearly never worked as an engineer. Do not judge serious technologies having experience working with electronics at the level of home outlets.
    Electronic means of transmitting video signals and surround images have not yet reached the level of resolution of the optical channel.
    Firstly, if any child voiced a similar problem, he will definitely say that driving a tank, plane or car while sitting at a computer monitor is 100 times easier than in reality. Secondly, it’s nowhere to get a 3D image. This technology is almost 20 years old. On most military simulators, it is quite popular and the problems of its integration into combat systems are limited only by expediency.
    1. +2
      13 August 2018 14: 53
      Google the name of the author, then write criticism similar)
      1. +2
        13 August 2018 18: 01
        Quote: cariperpaint
        Google the name of the author, then write criticism similar)

        I must admit that your advice is very sensible. it really explains a lot. soldier
      2. +1
        13 August 2018 20: 10
        Quote: cariperpaint
        Google the name of the author, then write criticism similar

        It will immediately become clear that he is a tanker of the old school, before electronics and modern technologies, he is like walking to the moon, despite the fact that Ph.D.
    2. +1
      21 August 2018 08: 55
      Say 3D images 20 years, this miracle is more than 20 years old (vfx1 - 1995)

      in Hitler’s 3D video they shot accurately, Germans had 3D movie theaters before and during the war,
      (so by the way the likeness of home 2, cooking shows, live broadcasts, the likeness of good night, kids by the way, too)

      and possibly Tsar Nicholas 1 in 3d photo is
      1. 0
        21 August 2018 09: 10
        in 2018, additional reality devices are already being sold
        https://www.magicleap.com
        on Yandex Market you can buy for 250000r
      2. 0
        26 August 2018 09: 41
        I did not see in the video above 3D here
        https://youtu.be/Yom5tPXdauA
        Hitler and Wehrmacht in Stereoscopic 3D
  22. +1
    13 August 2018 14: 46
    It is difficult to give estimates based on the experience of only past developments. The main disadvantages of the T-14 may be its high cost and uncertainty about the completeness of the chosen concept. Most likely, an experimental batch of new vehicles will enter the troops and development will continue to make it as efficient as possible. We can say with confidence that the T-14 is the future.
  23. +5
    13 August 2018 14: 51
    The people will not understand a simple thing - the people and the "party" have long been not united in the entire post-Soviet space.
    It's just that the processes of this "non-unity" in different fragments of the USSR have different specifics and scales, depending on the resources that were inherited from the Union and the ingenuity of the ruling elite.
    Therefore, in one place, the "people" are raised the tone by hypersound and "there is no analogue", in another - by unmanned APC "Phantom" and combat modules "Taipan".
    At the same time, the main purpose of both the hypersonic supercomplex "no-no-no-analogs" and the primitive Centaur boats is absolutely identical - to ensure the calm behavior of sheep in the process of shearing wool.
  24. -1
    13 August 2018 14: 53
    the impossibility of implementing an optical channel for observing, aiming and firing from a tank.

    Is it not possible to install any periscope or fiber optic cables? Or there is no way to duplicate part of the fur systems. drives? I am so far from all this, but I wonder
    1. 0
      13 August 2018 15: 47
      I think that everything depends on the fact that this is possible, but with the use of foreign equipment to which our designers have lost access.
  25. +1
    13 August 2018 15: 46
    I think that a bunch of foreign-made electronics were pushed into Armata (as in SU57) and now, having lost access to it, they began to talk about the superiority of old Soviet trash over new developments. I think that it’s not a matter of money (although it is also of them), but of the inaccessibility of components.
    1. +2
      13 August 2018 16: 41
      Su 57 is waiting for the second generation engine, and there it will already control a swarm of drones.
      1. 0
        13 August 2018 16: 53
        If the project survives, although if you recall that Serdyukov works in the UEC, then it’s quite
    2. +1
      13 August 2018 17: 03
      Not tired of writing the same thing a third time?
      1. 0
        13 August 2018 22: 45
        But, like, he wrote to different people
    3. 0
      13 August 2018 18: 30
      Vladislav, if I’m not mistaken, then you have already written 4 times about the fact that, according to your assumption, in T-14 they pushed various foreign electronics, which is now inaccessible to us. This is possible if the chief designer of the product is a Cossack sent from behind a hill, which is hard to believe.

      For example, in our communication systems we are completely autonomous from the so-called It’s been in the West since 2005. What decisions from abroad are completely unique and never be unique to me.
      1. 0
        13 August 2018 22: 52
        Well, I kind of wrote it to different people, although I have to be more careful here, maybe the same thing.
        But why, by the way, did the Cossack mishandle right away? There, German diesel engines and Ukrainian turbines shoved into the ships and this was considered normal. We buy thermal imagers in France (and not only thermal imagers). Armata was created during normal relations with the West, so they could put a lot of import.
        What can we buy from them? Well, if you recall the filling of the recorder with the drying down by the Turks, then almost all the electronics - processors, memory devices, etc.
        It was just that they unexpectedly wanted to close both the armature and the cabinet, it was strange and it seemed to me that there could be two options: either it was a cut initially, or I already wrote that.
  26. +1
    13 August 2018 16: 39
    As a result, Armata will be like KV. It seems expensive, but in war it will be more tenacious.
    1. +2
      13 August 2018 17: 04
      Quote: Macross
      As a result, Armata will be like KV.

      God forbid! smile
      Because the history of KV is an epic about the hopeless battle of the People’s Commissariat of Defense and the State Control with the Kirov Plant, in which all the requirements of NPOs to correct structural and production defects remained unanswered. As the HF was in 1939, a raw, slow, unreliable bunch of flaws stuffed into an armored corps - that is how it remained.
  27. -1
    13 August 2018 16: 56
    The problem with tanks is that in the modern world they are not really needed. Remember at least one recent conflict where tanks played a decisive role. Even if you have at least 5 thousand tanks, if you lose control over the air, they are useless from the word "absolutely". I could not suppress enemy artillery - tanks are useless, they will be covered on the march. Do you fight in the city (and most of the modern conflicts are here)? It couldn't be worse for tanks. In general, they are only suitable for driving aborigines.
    Hence the conclusions: why do we need a modern tank, if the old one copes well?
    1. 0
      13 August 2018 19: 14
      PontiffSulyvahn (PontiffSulyvahn) Today, 16:56
      The problem with tanks is that in the modern world they are not really needed. Remember at least one last conflict where tanks played a decisive role.
      ==========
      minus the work of the vks, but do not the tanks solve the main tasks of the Syrian army?
      1. -1
        13 August 2018 22: 28
        Before the Russian VKS intervened, the tanks just didn’t decide anything - Assad was losing. Again, the main thing in Syria is not tanks, but infantry. It is she who carries the main burden in the battles. Well, Assad’s opponents do not have many anti-tank weapons.
  28. +1
    13 August 2018 17: 13
    I think that the concept of using tanks and fighting them is still primary. And the creation of tanks obeys this concept. The T-14 tank, with all its revolutionary design, is a continuation of the old Soviet concept of using tanks. That, in general, is understandable - the generals always prepare for the past war. But the experience of Syria and Yemen shows that even protected Abrams and Leopards are well destroyed by the anti-tank weapons that the infantry possesses, especially in urban conditions and rough terrain. I think that BMPT has more prospects in future semi-partisan wars.
  29. +3
    13 August 2018 17: 21
    Where Rogozin is, there is success, there is victory. Rogozin is Mutko, only from the defense industry, not from sports. And the same "Shvets, and the reaper, and the player on the pipe" - is ready to do anything, the result is predictably zero.
  30. 0
    13 August 2018 18: 36
    not really wanted
  31. 0
    13 August 2018 19: 09
    competitors do not sleep, the tank needs to be done and run in the troops
  32. -1
    13 August 2018 19: 11
    All the talk that the same thing was done on airplanes does not stand up to criticism. The plane is not a tank, and its operating conditions are severe.

    The author probably does not know what kind of overload both the plane and the pilot experience at high speeds. The tank never dreamed of
  33. +1
    13 August 2018 19: 29
    Electronic means of transmitting video signals and surround images have not yet reached the level of resolution of the optical channel.

    A strange and not entirely obvious statement to me.
    Conducted experiments on the use of only a television channel for driving a tank showed that because of the flat television picture, it was almost impossible to conduct a tank. The driver did not feel the track, the slightest obstacle, even in the form of a puddle, put him in a dead end and did not allow him to assess the terrain.

    This is realistic .. But as a person who was just standing next to the tank, the question arises: how much visibility through monitors is really inferior to visibility through triplexes? Is it easier to navigate through them? Is it possible to hone orientation skills through a monitor with a tanker? But without a doubt, virtual reality systems with projection of data on the helmet create for nothing just because there is nothing to do.
    Instead of propaganda campaigns with showing the tank in parades, it is necessary to work out the concept of the tank, eliminate the shortcomings and achieve the realization of all its advantages.

    But with this statement it is difficult to argue, of course, as well as with the idea that the volume of technical novelty is huge and requires rigorous testing.
  34. +5
    13 August 2018 20: 19
    I disagree with many in the article. Many solutions implemented on the T-14 migrated to the T-90MS, which indicates the correctness and usefulness of the selected solutions.
    Korotenechko on the issue:
    Nobody knows how many will actually be handed over for trial operation in the troops. Borisov voices what is required by position. What is true there, what is the planned disinformation, and what is the personal opinion - it’s not possible to make out now. In the end, he represents the opinion of the government, and the Defense Ministry always had its own views on weapons issues. This thought was especially amused:
    The whole saga with the Armata tank, from the military’s rejection of this project at the beginning of development to the rapid production of an experimental batch, raises many questions.

    Wait a second .... Moscow Region itself issued TK, approved a preliminary design, accepted the first prototypes and agreed to the experimental batch. what is the rejection of the project?
    Therefore, I doubt that the military themselves put an end to the project, especially given the order to follow up with the T-15 party.
    In my opinion, the T-14 2 has the main problems.
    1) The problem is to fill the gaps in the defense here and now. within the existing budget, this can only be done within the framework of the purchase of the T-90MS and the endless finishing of the T-72. At the same time, everyone understands that the T-72 is relevant precisely "here and now", in tomorrow's situation there will be no place for it. The T-90MS will have a place tomorrow, but only until a certain moment. Today, these 2 tanks have chances in battle, but every year these chances will fade, because on the threshold there are already new ways of waging war. But from this the second problem flows.
    2) New wars are wars of information arrays. Network-centric wars of technology samples using "new physical principles". Actually, the T-14 was created for the transition of the RF Armed Forces to network-centric troubles. So the tank was created, but the rest of the infrastructure is not ready - reconnaissance of the theater of war in real time using a satellite constellation, drones, etc., processing of all collected data, automatic distribution of tasks and targets, and so on. Those. The T-14, in the absence of all other components, has no more combat value than the T-90MS. This is the main reason why the vector of MO purchases has shifted. A new information structure will be ready, they will remember the T-14.
  35. -2
    13 August 2018 20: 51
    Problems with the electrical and mechanical parts of Almaty can clearly be overcome by known means.

    The fundamental problem with the hardware and software complex is that with a shortened carriage, target recognition should be automated, and with this Armata has nothing to do.

    All other decisions in the field of control computerization - a synthesized picture of the environment and an augmented reality helmet - are already available in aviation and even in civilian life.
    1. 0
      24 September 2018 19: 34
      Quote: Operator
      , but with this, Armata has no way.

      And which tank has this "how"?
  36. +1
    13 August 2018 20: 55
    Some kind of chatter is coming, no one wants to work. The impression is that only some hard workers can do something, the rest of the fraternity takes off the financial cream. Our history has many examples when abandoned ideas and developments were implemented by our potential opponents. Apparently the rake is only for us alone.
  37. 0
    13 August 2018 21: 11
    T34, too, at first did not go very well ... I have vague doubts creeping in - are there any different pests in the ranks of the "Red Army"? In 37m, too, many developments were "cut" by the enemies of the people
  38. 0
    13 August 2018 21: 57
    .
    The captain gave evidence of known facts and did not give out anything new.
  39. +3
    13 August 2018 23: 26
    steal less!
  40. 0
    14 August 2018 10: 05
    ... why flood “Armaty” with all the armed forces, our T-72 is in great demand in the market, everyone takes it ...

    From this phrase, the author made a whole article under the heading: "Why" Armata "did not go to the troops." About the fact that everything is gone, the plaster is removed, the client leaves, put out the light, drain the water. They refused from Armata. And of course my favorite: - Putin leaked.
    And if you don’t chase loud headlines and carefully read again even this quotation taken out of speech. It becomes clear that the refusal of the T-14 tank is not mentioned in it. It is said that all the existing tanks are not planned to be replaced by the T-14. So under the USSR there was such a situation. No one changed the entire fleet of equipment at once. First, new tanks and planes went to the GSVG and other units located in the west of the country. And in parts located in the Far East, Central Asia or the Caucasus, the equipment of the previous generation could have been located for a very long time. Not so long ago there was news about the replacement of tanks in the Kuril Islands. Sent there the T-80 instead of the T-55M.
    1. 0
      14 August 2018 15: 46
      You can also complement the fact that in the West and East there are no tanks comparable to the T-14, then why drive the fever? Concepts will appear, then taking them into account, you can finalize and launch in a series ... in the meantime, you need to test and practice the application ... soldier
    2. 0
      14 August 2018 17: 10
      This is exactly the situation when Putin leaked!
  41. 0
    14 August 2018 14: 45
    Why "Armata" did not go to the troops
    The time has not come. Not a single tank has yet been developed from a sheet in such a short period of time that has passed since the beginning of development, even with some backlog of 195 products. The article quite fully outlines the main problems that designers will have to face during the development and refinement of this product. At the same time, the safety issues of the operation of weapons are not at all reflected, which are especially important in the presence of an uninhabited fighting compartment. To address these issues, you will probably have to apply multiple duplication. The tank's systems are all new, it will take years for bench tests, including for a resource in various climatic conditions, and then all this can be repeated as part of the tank. and some questions and in the composition of the unit. Let's hope that all stages of testing will be successfully completed and we will see a tank on the Armata platform as part of the RA Army.
    1. +2
      14 August 2018 17: 16
      Some trolls went weak, no analytics from them. Wimps. One old one tries and past. Listen fools! The time for Armata has come! A long time ago! As for other models of technology. As for staffing decisions in government. Fundamental decisions in diplomacy. The right decisions in the economy! The time has come for these actions and it is time to apply them. Everything else is just an attempt to justify the inaction and lack of brains and will.
  42. +1
    14 August 2018 15: 42
    I don't really understand why the author needs an "oak" tank a la IS-2 ... request If, as a result of combat damage, the electrical equipment of the tank is out of order, the crew / tank must be evacuated. What will they get there through the optical sight and without communication ... request
  43. 0
    14 August 2018 16: 02
    In general, it turned out like A.S. Pushkin in "The Tale of Tsar Saltan":
    "The queen gave birth in the night
    Not a son, not a daughter;
    Not a mouse, not a frog,
    But to an unknown animal. "

    The subsequent decision of the king is also well known to all. However, it was distorted, and in the end received something completely unexpected. However, I am glad that the end of the tale is still good.
  44. 0
    15 August 2018 01: 46
    I'm embarrassed to ask - are "Angara" and "Armata" like twins in money laundering? Well, according to the "Angara" - it is already clear - the stillborn cannot live and Mr. Rogozin is launching a new project using the "Bainokur" (well, they knew how to build cosmodromes under the Soviets). Wait and see - about the modification of the T-72 information - heaps. Even in biathlon, modifications of this grandfather are used.
    (Note - I have VUS 0102, so when I put these tanks on the front line with enemy countries a little in the know)
  45. 0
    15 August 2018 17: 41
    It's a pity that Armata did not go into the series. An interesting progressive concept is embodied in iron: a capsule for the crew and an uninhabited tower with AZ.
  46. 0
    18 August 2018 10: 24
    Dear author, once they said the same thing about replacing the loader with an automatic machine, about your super-revolutionary engine. But for some reason you are defending it, but criticizing new innovations.
  47. +1
    21 August 2018 15: 45
    Still serving in the USSR Armed Forces, and so on. in HRV, I well remember all the problems in the maintenance and repair of weapons and equipment, although these were planned works. If consumables and spare parts were not yet a particular problem, then something more complex, such as REO spare blocks, engines, etc., often rested on the price and the difficulties of transportation and assembly in the full required volume. But in modern realities, because of the speed of re-equipment and the introduction of new technologies, the technical and technological documentation and repair and maintenance technologies that have not been fully worked out, and little experience in operating l / s equipment, I don’t even want to say. It seems that right at this stage, BTS decided to postpone this issue. In the end, the Second World War won on the T34, although the Tigers and Panthers were better in many respects, but technologically more difficult to manufacture. In the end, a tank is a battle machine and its life is short, maybe right, cheaper, and it means a lot than it is expensive, but not so much, i.e. 90% of the battlefield is decided by the training and experience of the crew, and the tank is a machine, a tool, like a rifle.
    1. 0
      18 September 2018 15: 58
      Better in a capsule, but stay alive, with detonation of ammunition, than in a 'simple and reliable', but burnt corpse.
  48. 0
    21 August 2018 15: 49
    Quote: voyaka uh
    It's a pity that Armata did not go into the series. An interesting progressive concept is embodied in iron: a capsule for the crew and an uninhabited tower with AZ

    There are still too many problems, and the main one is with weapons, there is no planned gun and ammunition for it, the driving and control technologies do not meet the requirements of modern combat. It seems to me that I am not an expert that this is a purely conceptual experimental machine for testing technologies and technical solutions.
  49. 0
    18 September 2018 15: 53
    "... The control of all turret systems only with the help of electrical signals dramatically reduces the reliability of the entire tank as a whole ..."
    Well, yes, yes, let's continue to rivet the mass graves of the T-90 ...
    The situation resembles mechanical engineering in GENERAL in the USSR - while in the decaying west, power steering, 5-speed gearboxes, and even 'automatic machines', air conditioners, injection on gasoline engines, in the Union, in the old fashioned way, a steering wheel with two hands groaning twisted, drove a miserable 4-speed gearbox (with all the consequences), steaming in the cabin, and having regular hemorrhoids with carburetors.
    They say, what for us these 'bells and whistles', it's unreliable!
    Today we have a catastrophic lag in this niche (if not forever!).
    And import, with all the bells and whistles, runs much longer than an old-school UAZ, fret or lawn (gazelle), and minimal hemorrhoids, expressed only in timely maintenance.
    So with the warriors.
    Simplicity, of course, is needed for harsh military equipment, but IN MEASURE.
    Otherwise, Rossiyushka will once again be in the catch-up, now in the military service, which for a long time was no longer there.
  50. 0
    24 September 2018 18: 15
    "Armata" and "Zamvolt" are products of the next generation of weapons. that's why they "run in" for so long.
    You can listen to the couch experts and cut everything 72,80,90. And instead of "riveting" raw "Armat".
  51. 0
    12 October 2018 10: 14
    There were also black eagle, and forward sweep and black sharks/aligators and a series of submarines and nuclear cruisers and aircraft carriers, etc. and so on.


    There is nothing much to do, nowhere, nothing to do and no one to do.

    "Boris Yulin on military construction" at Goblin
  52. 0
    28 October 2018 18: 18
    Conducted experiments on the use of only a television channel for driving a tank showed that because of the flat television picture, it was almost impossible to conduct a tank. The driver did not feel the track, the slightest obstacle, even in the form of a puddle, put him in a dead end and did not allow him to assess the terrain.
    And how do people manage to masterfully control cars and tanks in video games, when there is a flat television picture? And even puddles don’t baffle them! laughing