Military Review

F-22: positive trends and unhappy perspectives

83
Not so long ago, the last serial fighter, the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor, rolled off the assembly line of an aircraft factory in Marietta. Prior to this event, there were many years of research and design, testing, financial problems and, most importantly, disputes over the prospects and feasibility of the project. As a result, supporters of the F-22 won, although they “suffered losses” - less than two hundred aircraft were made instead of the originally planned 750. Another point that is often used as an argument against the project is its combat use. The fact is that "Raptor" added to the list of those few American aircraft that did not have time to take part in hostilities before the termination of its production. Almost all of his predecessors went to war for several years after the start of production, but F-22 itself failed to do this.



Nevertheless, the F-22 fighter can not be called completely hopeless and hopeless. Thanks to the development of the aircraft in the army, it was possible to improve to some extent a number of parameters. Thus, at the beginning of operation, servicing of machines required about 20 man-hours per flight hour. Now this parameter is very close to 12. Similarly, the cost of the flight hour has fallen - now it is in the 19-20 area of ​​thousands of dollars. It is possible that within a year or two this parameter will equal the cost of the flight hour of the F-15 fighter (about 17 thousand). Finally, last year, the readiness of the F-22 aircraft ranged around 70%. As for the other fighters, their readiness rarely exceeds 65%. Perhaps this is due to particularly close attention to the new fighter. However, the reduction in operating costs can be perceived, among other things, as a hint at the achievement of one of the goals of the program - cheaper maintenance, repair and other ground works.

A few days ago, the list of problems F-22 added a new item. It became known that several pilots who had been entrusted with a new technique were not at all pleased with this fact. According to them, the fighter’s oxygen system has a lot of problems that can lead to any consequences, including catastrophic ones. It should be noted that the problems of the air regenerator are being pursued by the Raptor not for the first and second years. No less regularly appear the proposals to remove this new equipment and replace it with a good old oxygen bottle. There are supporters among the military too, but there is no consensus at the Pentagon. The fact is that with repeated refueling in flight, the only limitations in flight range are the physical capabilities of the pilot and the resource of the aircraft’s breathing system. If instead of an oxygen cylinder of limited capacity, an oxygen regenerator is installed, then the range will be limited only by the pilot's capabilities. However, the regenerative system is still quite raw. In recent years and the time of serial operation of the F-22 fighter, there have been almost no positive changes in its attitude. Of course, a modern regenerative system is a head or two taller than that made at the end of 80's, but its operational characteristics have not yet reached an acceptable value.

The relatively high cost of a specific F-22 type aircraft and, as a result, a relatively small amount of production combined with the problems of another fighter of a new generation - the F-35 Lightning II - can put USAF in a very uncomfortable position in the very near future. Initially, the F-22 was created as a successor to the F-15: a heavy fighter with excellent onboard equipment and weapons. The F-35, in turn, was conceived by the F-16 changer, a lightweight and cheap fighter with less good characteristics. Now it turns out that the heavy “fancy” aircraft already exists (although it has a number of problems), and the light and cheap is not, in the first place, ready to be put into service, and secondly, it cannot be called cheap. It can be assumed that in numerical terms F-35 will repeat the fate of Raptor and also will not become a mass product. Even the timely delivery of the F-35 to the full-fledged series does not guarantee the absence of some “failure” in the supply of new equipment. In addition, do not forget about the next modification of the old technology - F-16V. This upgrade option for the old F-16 is much cheaper than building new cars.

Finally, the fact that developing countries increasingly prefer to buy Russian Su-made planes is a matter of some concern for the fate of the new American fighter jets from the US military and experts from around the world. In a number of competitions, the exported American equipment has already lost, but something completely new in the face of F-35 is not yet ready. F-22, in turn, is generally not offered for sale abroad, although there is reason to expect this in a few years. But the production of aircraft for sales to third countries could help reduce the cost of fighters produced for themselves. But the Pentagon is in no hurry to give permission for the sale of F-22. According to various estimates, the conclusion of contracts for the supply of "Raptor", if it takes place, will not happen before 2015 of the year. This means that the American F-22 by then will step on the heels of FGFA - the export version of the Russian T-50, jointly developed by Russia and India.

And yet, the F-22 has the opportunity to prove himself in business and prove his worth to opponents. Recently, there were reports of the transfer of several "Raptor" from the United States to the United Arab Emirates. The detailed reasons for this, as always, are not in a hurry to publish the command of the American Air Force. As a result, many speculations appeared, and a considerable part of them concerned a hypothetical war with Iran. Several arguments are presented in favor of this version, but the opinion of expert I. Kramnik seems to be the most plausible. He believes that in the event of a conflict, the F-22s will be sent to do what they were created for. Even before the Islamic revolution, Iran managed to get dozens of American F-14 fighters. Despite their considerable age, these machines can still cause problems for the American aviation, especially F-15 or F-16 aircraft. These fighters over the past seventies managed to go through several upgrades, which, however, may not have the proper consequences in a real battle. Therefore, the United States has every reason to fear the 25-30 available to Iran F-14. In its combat characteristics, the Raptor is significantly superior to the Iranian F-14. But the main thing you should pay attention to is his ability to detect targets. F-22 can detect and attack Iranian fighters before they can respond. So the F-22 is "at risk" to finally take up its direct responsibilities.

Modern war is characterized by the absence of complete superiority of one side over the other. Therefore, a certain number of "Raptors" will undoubtedly suffer to some extent. Judging by the available data, damages already moderate for a number of technological reasons in most cases will require repair in the factory. This is not the good side of the plane. At the same time, as if preparing for the upcoming repairs, the assembly line "Raptors" was preserved at the Lockheed Martin factory. Another version concerning the preservation of the line concerns the possible order of a new batch of these aircraft. The fact is that the existing 187 serial drilling machines can not cover all the needs of USAF. About five hundred F-15 fighters of various modifications are currently in service. And even with the boldest assumptions, such a number of them cannot be completely replaced by two hundred Raptors. In addition, the upgrading potential of the F-15 is already coming to an end, and there is almost no benefit from continuing improvements.

F-22 Raptor fighter from the very beginning had very high hopes. For reasons beyond his control, this aircraft could not meet all expectations, for which it was almost immediately subjected to harsh criticism. However, childhood diseases of the machine are almost completely eliminated, operational performance is constantly improving, and its first war looms on the horizon. Nevertheless, the positive trends in the fate of "Raptor" are unlikely to be able to convince the haters of the project and force them to change their opinion. Responsible persons of the Pentagon in such conditions can only analyze the data, build forecasts and decide what the US Air Force needs, for what and in what quantity.

Information sources:
http://www.af.mil/
http://rus.ruvr.ru/
http://www.f22-raptor.com/
Author:
83 comments
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  1. ward
    ward 17 May 2012 09: 06
    +34
    One ... two ..... three ... four .. five ... who didn’t have time to sit down, it's not my fault .. said the Iranian military and turned on the GPS jammer ...
    1. alex21411
      alex21411 17 May 2012 09: 30
      +20
      Or Russian special in Iranian military uniform laughing
      1. tronin.maxim
        tronin.maxim 17 May 2012 11: 07
        +9
        In general, the end of the Americans! laughing
        1. alex21411
          alex21411 17 May 2012 13: 16
          +5
          They will be executed there in Popendam and Rotherdam, although they love it, whoever understands them, perverts ...
      2. Gym teacher
        Gym teacher 17 May 2012 12: 30
        -3
        Quote: alex21411
        Or Russian special in Iranian military uniform

        The Iranian leadership in the person of Ayatollah calls Russia weak Satan. America he calls strong Satan

        Great ally
      3. Denzel13
        Denzel13 17 May 2012 19: 12
        +3
        Only he does not put it that way laughing
    2. Dub4ik
      Dub4ik 17 May 2012 11: 10
      +6
      Quote: ward
      One ... two ..... three ... four .. five ... who didn’t have time to sit down, it's not my fault .. said the Iranian military and turned on the GPS jammer ...

      laughing
      1. father tudy-syudy
        father tudy-syudy 17 May 2012 12: 05
        -10
        Damn, well, I'm just smiling with Russian official propaganda:
        For the whole world, Americans themselves and voluntarily give out information about this super-plane, indicating errors and shortcomings, I emphasize it myself,
        and Surkov's propaganda use this information - trying to "mercilessly" criticize this aircraft! .... ABSURD! lol
        Yes, you show your details with such details in this topic, do not talk TALES, but just TAKE AND SHOW ?!
        The United States has already completed the production of the series and is constantly refining this ultra-modern machine, eliminating the inherent flaws that are natural for everything completely new, and the Russians are trying to criticize something else with foam from the mouth laughing With the complete absence of one's own ..
        Anecdote of the last 2 years good
        1. Gym teacher
          Gym teacher 17 May 2012 12: 33
          -1
          The US Air Force has received 187 newest "Raptors" in recent years

          As part of the Russian Air Force - officially 250 Su-27s suitable for flight, built back in the years 80-90. The only replenishment of fighter aircraft - a few MiGs that Algeria refused
          1. Eugene
            Eugene 17 May 2012 12: 47
            +10
            Do not forget about the MiG-31, recently delivered SM-3, a certain number of SU-30K and Su-35.
          2. Tersky
            Tersky 17 May 2012 16: 13
            +18
            Quote: Fizruk
            The US Air Force has received 187 newest "Raptors" in recent years

            Russia has 1900 S-300PMU (air defense of the Air Force) and 200 S-300V (military air defense) systems in service, as well as the S-400, enough for Raptors. Given the difference in the cost of the latter and the missile for the air defense complex, who "flies in"?
        2. 11Goor11
          11Goor11 17 May 2012 13: 07
          +12
          TTD Su-27 is quite comparable with the characteristics of "this super modern machine"
          The latest modifications of "Dryers" are superior to "Predator".
          For example, the opinion of an independent expert, a very experienced test pilot from Australia,
          do not be lazy on this page an interesting comparison table
          http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-081109-1.html

          Stealth? There is a lot of conflicting information about stealth.
          American jingoistic patriots: "We are invisible"
          Our realists: "Nu-nu ... get a rocket"
          (and it has already happened more than once)

          Watch the film how American engineers used to create stealth, the scientific work of Pyotr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev, and then at a conference in France, Ufimtsev said that he worked not only on the possibility of creating stealth, but also on its confident detection, and not to be unsubstantiated right there at the conference he gave out the principles of how to see the "invisibility". Everyone was shocked :)))
          here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq-xlLcL_1k
          Petr Ufimtsev the Creator & Father of Stealth Technology - Russian Stealth
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 May 2012 13: 35
            -12
            About the latest modifications of the Su-27, and how they will make the damned Raptor - that's great. Posreatism is not tight?
            1. 11Goor11
              11Goor11 17 May 2012 14: 20
              +13
              Pimpled:
              About the latest modifications of the Su-27, and how they will make the damned Raptor - that's great. Posreatism is not tight?


              With him (poetsreatizm) - life is more fun lol
              I'm not saying that Russia will "crush these jackals with one left",
              we are talking about our asymmetric answer
              "You give the same functionality in less bucks!"
              and indeed it is.
            2. Igorboss16
              Igorboss16 18 May 2012 10: 11
              +5
              that you think how can the plane participate in the battle if, after an altitude of 7 thousand, the pilot is chopped off
        3. alps
          alps 17 May 2012 13: 20
          +9
          The article is not about the publicity and honesty of propaganda, but about the quality of the aircraft. The Americans themselves VOLUNTARY litter out of the hut, which means that it is not bad, but very bad with the plane, and they began to speak openly so that when the pilots of the partner countries began to die on them, it could be said that we warned you .. .
          1. EJIEKTPOBO3
            EJIEKTPOBO3 17 May 2012 13: 34
            +6
            Quote: alps
            The Americans themselves VOLUNTARY will take out the horseradish from the hut, which means that it’s not bad, but very bad with the plane


            And when did they have a good time with aviation? They didn’t succeed even with the fourth generation - the Su-27 and MiG-29 surpassed the expensive and bulky F-15 and single-engine F-16 by head

            Everyone remembers the burning B-29s in the sky of Korea and thousands of downed Phantoms in Vietnam. lol
            1. Old skeptic
              Old skeptic 18 May 2012 01: 34
              +1
              Into the account of Phantoms you have bent. The score is really in our favor about 2: 1 but not thousands:
              For the entire period of hostilities from 1966 to 1972, 54 MiG-21 aircraft were shot down, during the same period, the "twenty-first" destroyed 103 Phantoms.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 17 May 2012 13: 38
            +3
            Well no. This is just another system. In the United States, a huge number of balances that help make uncomfortable information public. Everything is customary to hide here, the slightest problem is the other way around - it pops up very quickly.

            In addition, various forces often use the press, commissions of inquiry, etc., to advance their interests. Depending on these interests, the aircraft becomes either super cool or impossible bad.
            1. 755962
              755962 17 May 2012 15: 20
              +2
              Mysteries of F-22 Fighter Ailment Continue to Grow
              While the Air Force is looking for reasons why pilots feel bad flying on the F-22, new puzzles about the troubled stealth fighter appear: why do technicians on earth feel bad as well as pilots?
              http://mixednews.ru/archives/17963
        4. Jungar
          Jungar 17 May 2012 21: 03
          +3
          Smiling is, of course, not bad. Only the one who laughs last laughs well. And the last will be the one who is considered weak, but this weak in an incomprehensible way knows how to mobilize at the right time and, to the horror of the strong and developed, becomes a giant. Many expressed themselves in this spirit, and without a smile at all, for example Bismarck. And about "show", I recommend not to hysteria ahead of time - the time will come and you will see everything for yourself! Then I will smile too!
        5. Nazrug
          Nazrug 17 May 2012 23: 05
          -1
          What kind of nonsense did he understand? Have you ever read an article?
        6. SSR
          SSR 18 May 2012 21: 55
          +1
          eee like a woodpecker a strong bird but not a falcon.
          "To the whole world, the Americans themselves AND VOLUNTARYLY give out information about this super-aircraft, indicating errors But father tudy-syudy,"
          I say quarrels ... but I can not help it ... I'm sorry ...
          rumor you are dolbyatyat ... well, it's impossible for more than 10 years to hide the sores of a woodpecker ... which was supposed to stomp on export partners for a long time.
          for the failure of the contracts .. and so they .... lay straw ....
          with all this, I do not justify our .. dolbo .... woodpecker.
          but specifically you .. dolphin ... there is a jingle but it doesn’t. highly. I ask ... well, troll gentlemen, strong ... otherwise it is sad to read the forum.
  2. Olegovich
    Olegovich 17 May 2012 09: 19
    +25
    Despite the problems, the Americans were able to master advanced technologies, and also very quickly produced these 187 pieces. This suggests that productivity is very high and limited only by financial capabilities. In the event of war, they will be able to get very quickly the required number of aircraft, (unlike us).
    Conclusion: the Americans are not asleep, and despite the problems, they are developing. We have no choice but to continue the accelerated revival of the aviation industry.
    We have "points of growth": we have recently mastered the production of engines for missiles, helicopter plants have increased their productivity very quickly, engines for aircraft are being produced at an accelerating pace.
    1. Armata
      Armata 17 May 2012 09: 49
      +8
      For each of their cakes we have C300 and C400. drinks
      1. Olegovich
        Olegovich 17 May 2012 10: 04
        +9
        Quote: Steam Train
        For each of their cakes, we have C300 and C400

        Eugene, only support! good And for this it would be nice to take a couple of raptors "for experiments" as a trophy.
        1. alps
          alps 17 May 2012 13: 24
          +6
          For experiments, it would be more interesting to send the S-300 to where the Raptors fly laughing
          1. beech
            beech 17 May 2012 20: 51
            +2
            let's say .. in Iran))
      2. Muxalet
        Muxalet 17 May 2012 10: 14
        +17
        The fact is that before the Raptors enter the battle, the enemy’s air defense should already be destroyed. Stealth F-22 is needed not so much against air defense as against other aircraft. But other planes, with weak radar, can see the F-22 only at close range. But by that time, the Raptor would have discovered them and destroyed them for a long time.
        1. Old skeptic
          Old skeptic 18 May 2012 01: 51
          +3
          That is, the “super-plane” will fly like a king on name days, and the Fe-15,16 will cover it with its fuselage. Why is he so handsome?
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 17 May 2012 13: 38
        -5
        Here it is doubtful. C300 learned to suppress.
        1. beard999
          beard999 17 May 2012 18: 21
          +8
          Quote: Pimply
          C300 learned to suppress.

          You could not clarify a number of questions:
          1. Who, and when, learned to suppress the S-300?
          2. What forces and technical means were involved in the "suppression"?
          3. What modification of the S-300 and in what composition was “suppressed”?
          4. Under what conditions was "suppression" carried out - during hostilities, exercises, field modeling, etc. etc.?
          And if it does not bother you, give links to information sources.
          1. matvey.z
            matvey.z 17 May 2012 23: 20
            +14
            [quote = beard999]
            I'll try. wink
            F-22 Raptor vs C300V.
            The subtle pride of the US Air Force somewhere in the European part of the Russian Federation includes a radar and ...
            0 seconds Turn on radar.
            + 5 sec. The nearest "Kolchuga": "The source of the PShS, EIIM is taken for escort:
            *** watt, median: *** GHz, range: *** meters, azimuth: *** elevation: ***
            The signatures are being calculated "
            +20 sec. "Kolchuga": Signature analysis results are ready. With a probability of 78%, the source is an AN / APG77 product manufactured by Tuches Instrument. Individual signature is not correlated - PTP data archive is empty.
            +25 sec "Baikal": The object is queued for a "chime", divisions NN, MM and KK - to perform, "four sweeps", in turn ...
            +25,2 sec territorial 5N36-e (chorus) - "acknowledged"
            +45 sec they are: "small-sized blood pressure NLC, trace information is attached"
            +50 sec "Baikal" - to the military 9C457: "Neighbor, help me, there is a complicated guy here, he can bite, but you seem to be more powerful, and even stronger ..."
            +50,2 sec 9С457: "quit"
            +50,4 sec "Baikal": NN, MM and KK, we check the route every 15 sec, in turn.
            +2 min "Baikal" - to the military 9С457: "the specified route - here it is, it's yours"
            + 2 min 0,2 sec, military 9S457: "quit"
            + 2 min 0,4 sec 9С457 - "Ginger": "keep the track, check and drive" on the aisle ""
            + 2 min 0,4 sec 9С457 - attached to "Newspapers", 9С32 and 9А83: "Getting ready"
            + 2 min 15 sec 9А83: "TPK 1 and 2 - ready"
            + 2 min 30 sec. "Ginger": "the track is confirmed, 9С32 is in sync, while" dry ", the range seems to allow"
            + 2 min 31 sec 9С457 - 9С32: "drive, duty cycle - four, refined coordinates - 9А83rd"
            + 2 min 32 sec AN / ALR-944: "Warning! SA-12 Giant in standby mode detected!"
            + 2 min 35 sec 9А83: "coordinates are valid, SOC is ready"
            + 2 min 36 sec 9С457 - 9А83rd: "double start, inertial, while without illumination".
            + 2 min 37 sec 9А83: "first went"
            + 2 min 38 sec 9А83: "the second went"
            + 2 min 50 sec 9M83 No. 1: "the first stage is everything"
            + 2 min 51 sec 9M83 No. 2: "the first stage is everything"
            + 3 min 9С457 - 9С32: "prepare a correction, the duty cycle is one, five seconds, then - again by a quarter"
            + 3 min 01 sec AN / ALR-944: "Warning! SA-12 Giant burst scan detected! Launch probable!"
            + 3 min 05 sec 1Lt John Doe: "Kill'em all, baby! Two JDAMs, please ..."
            + 3 min 10 sec 9С32 - 9М83-m: "second stage - ignition, accept correction"
            + 3 min 12 sec, "Ginger" - 9С457: "Oh, b ... it shoots! And, apparently, - at us!"
            + 3 min 13 sec 9С457: "The newspapermen - to work, 9С32 and 9А83 - to endure, the rest - 500 meters back!"
            + 3 min 40 sec: 9С32-9А83: "There are 20 km left, they are yours, and I will eat ..."
            + 3 min 46 sec 9А83: "SPC - backlight!"
            + 3 min 47 sec AN / ALR-944: "Alarm! Alarm! Tracking detected! Chaff released!"
            + 3 min 48 sec 1Lt John Doe: "O, holy shit!"
            + 3 min 49 sec 9M83 # 1: "BOOM-M!"
            + 3 min 50 sec 9M83 # 2: "BOOM-M!"
            + 3 min 51 sec 9А83: "Ffuh! The deed is done, but what am I, a fool to stand alone in an open field? Eat ... quickly!"
            + 3 min 55 sec 5N36 division NN: "I fix a volumetric fixed target with zero Doppler in coordinates ***, ***, ***. The track of the tracked NLC is empty."
            + 4 min 30 sec JDAM # 1: "BOOM-M! Inflatable 36D6 has been successfully hit!"
            + 4 min 30 sec JDAM # 2: "BOOM-M! The place where 9А83 stood half a minute ago has been successfully hit!"

            Like this ...
            Baikal - ACS of the air defense group
            Newspaper - station for radar protection from anti-radar missiles
            Ginger - Military Radar Program Review
            Mail - a radio intelligence station
            36D6 - all-height three-coordinate radar for detecting targets of an air defense complex
            5N36 - command post of combat operations control of the air defense complex
            9A83 - military launcher with four missiles
            9M83 - military anti-aircraft guided missile (SAM)
            9C32 - military multi-channel missile guidance station
            9С457 - military command post control of operations
            AD NLC - aerodynamic low-flying target
            PShS - pseudo noise signal
            Radar - airborne radar station
            RTR - radio intelligence
            TWS - target illumination station
            TPK - transport and launch container
            EIIM - equivalent isotropically radiated power
            AN / APG77 - Radar with AFAR on the F-22 Raptor
            AN / ALR-944 - F-22 Raptor Exposure Warning System
            JDAM - precision weapons (bomb or missile)
            SA-12 Giant - S-300V military air defense system (according to NATO classification)
            1. Ares
              Ares 19 May 2012 13: 07
              0
              Quote: matvey.z
              F-22 Raptor vs C300V.
              The subtle pride of the US Air Force somewhere in the European part of the Russian Federation includes a radar and ...
              0 seconds Turn on radar.


              Unfortunately, all your beautifully designed theory loses its relevance at the very beginning. No one will shine their radar in the entire district with unsuppressed air defense. The raptor will receive target designation and reconnaissance information from AWACS, satellites, UAVs and its own passive sensors. Do not turn off logic and objectivity when you want to see what you want.
              1. matvey.z
                matvey.z 22 May 2012 12: 17
                +2
                Quote: Ares
                all your beautifully designed theory

                It isnot mine.
                Reprint of course. This is a joke.
                Do not take it seriously.
      4. Kamaz
        Kamaz 17 May 2012 15: 36
        -7
        No matter how powerful our East Kazakhstan area would be, they will crush us with a number or like in the Second World War ...
        When our (at that time latest) heavy KV tanks were forced (due to
        ill-conceived actions of our leaders) to restrain the German armada alone!
    2. Zerstorer
      Zerstorer 17 May 2012 10: 13
      +9
      Olegitch - I support. I add that it is better to overestimate the enemy than to underestimate him.
    3. patline
      patline 17 May 2012 10: 32
      +6
      Chesssna, sometimes the impression is that this direction of invisibility-stealth is somehow dead-end. Well, it is simply impossible to make invisible - that which is visible. There are other detection technologies for one invisibility technology.
      And all of these Stells, so it was - the guys from the KGB got into the minds of the developers there.
      http://oko-planet.su/politik/politikarm/112405-troyanskiy-kon-dlya-vvs-ssha.html
      - here I read about the operation of disinformation.
      So to say, the answer to the SDI, to which ours were led.
      1. Very smart
        Very smart 17 May 2012 13: 24
        +6
        patline
        Everything is not so simple and straightforward. This is not about invisibility as such. It is necessary to achieve invisibility by technical means of the probable enemy. Or significantly reduce the detection distance. To achieve the result, several fundamental solutions are used: the main ones are geometry (application of the theory of reflections),
        - absorbent coatings,
        - decrease in exhaust temperature, etc.
        Everything is not hopeless and the result is achieved. But for every ... there is a bolt with a left-hand thread. Signs of a higher order come out, according to which detection can be carried out just as successfully - a trace field, distortion of other physical fields, etc.
        And as a result, everything is decided by a specific operator on the equipment or pilot. If he is well prepared, then the aircraft has practically no chance.
      2. alex21411
        alex21411 18 May 2012 21: 43
        +1
        A good article, I read something like that in a newspaper for a long time ... Such articles go well under beer)))
    4. fatalist
      fatalist 17 May 2012 10: 54
      +3
      There are big doubts about the ability to quickly increase the production of modern fighters.

      Modern fighters are very complex, they consist of a bunch of parts, many of which are unique and are produced individually. They are assembled in small series (rather than riveted like cars on an assembly line).

      If you need to quickly increase production, the first question will be components, the release of which can take a lot of time. Next, the small-batch assembly will become a limiter - you can increase the maximum number of shifts to three.

      It will not work quickly to connect other plants to the assembly - special equipment, training of assemblers, etc. are required.
      1. Armata
        Armata 17 May 2012 11: 04
        +4
        Yes, what kind of series can I talk about if they still haven’t solved particular design problems. I do not think that their system is very different from ours, but if we have problematic units with more than 2% of the total design, the machine will never go into series. Only if there is a willful decision from above. I don’t think they’ll put it on stream. In the best case, as a past, their deadlock will merge the allies in the bloc by force.
        1. vpm
          vpm 17 May 2012 11: 50
          +3
          I think not, given the amount of money already spent, it will most likely be brought to mind. And why there was no combat use, the machine is too expensive to risk it and at the same time, the existing fighters perform urgent tasks with less problems and costs. Neither in Iraq nor in Libya it was simply advisable to use it, because it was created for a completely different opponent. The first conflict in which it will break in will probably be a war with Iran. Subsequently, who knows, perhaps we or the Chinese will have to fight with him. In the meantime, they accumulate operational experience and optimize costs, that is, by the time our T-50s go into production, they will already have two hundred used vehicles. This is a lot, it is not necessary to underestimate this factor.
          1. pinachet
            pinachet 17 May 2012 12: 39
            +5
            a trained pilot and a su 35 will do a good job with a raptor, and we already have almost used these dryers.
    5. Civil
      Civil 17 May 2012 12: 34
      +1
      that's it ... the bastard flies ...
    6. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 May 2012 23: 16
      +7
      Quote: Olegych
      Despite the problems, advanced technology Americans were able to master, and also very quickly produced these 187 pieces.

      In fact, this aircraft is made with 1997, and serially with 2001. 187 aircraft for 10 years - this is for 18-19 aircraft per year
    7. Old skeptic
      Old skeptic 18 May 2012 01: 46
      +4
      The pace is good; Dinosaurs closed for the price. The question is: Where is the money Zin? With 14000000000000 billion state debt and a comparable debt of private capital, as well as citizens, a waste economy will not withstand a serious war. Not enough money.
    8. CC-18a
      CC-18a 18 May 2012 04: 30
      +2
      You are a little misunderstood the situation with the rapor.
      There is such a concept as a plan - a goal - a task ... it is set in advance before starting to move in this direction.
      When, after the movement and reaching the point of movement, it is called a plan or a goal, it’s a hoax, you are just in this hoax.
      F22 was not planned in 187 pieces, F22 was planned as a replacement for previous generations, and this is thousands and thousands of pieces, but the problems in realizing the task are such that it is impossible to achieve the goal plan with a raptor. If you discard all the pathos and propaganda, f22 is a complete failure! 187 pieces is as much as the Americans could make and it is not so much as they want, that is, they could not, and then a complete lie has already gone! about the great superiority of this flying mistake and this is understandable ... what remains to be done except to bluff, that this bluff shows one wonderful fact - non-participation of f22 in conflicts ... amers will do anything just to show their superiority, and if this not done means they have problems.

      Now, regarding the US industry, they have impudent capitalism, it will not allow to quickly and significantly increase production volumes, and their mentality will also not allow them to increase production to the necessary levels. It all comes down to who pays? If you fight with the Russian Federation where there are serious resources, this is a sharp separation from the Russian Federation and its economic potential, which means a complete failure in the resource base for the United States and its allies, for production you need resources and not green candy wrappers. Although, again, there are attempts to cultivate patriotism in the United States, but so far this has turned into debelism.

      The rest are right, it is necessary to raise the industry, which is being done, though again, one does not have to go too far.

      Secretly, by the way, in the Russian Federation there is only one good thing left from the USSR, as far as I remember, up to 6% (somewhere in 2004 I looked) of the budget goes to the costs of "the mobilization economy" or whatever it is called, I don't remember, the point is that the industry is supported so that in the event of a major war, quickly switch from peaceful rails to the military, as well as what I am doing without understanding, a mystery shrouded in darkness and probably it's good that nothing is known.
  3. alex21411
    alex21411 17 May 2012 09: 26
    +5
    Nothing, let these chickens fight, and we will look at them ... we will know everything about them, and therefore we will improve our own for the better ... Perhaps we will not need to have hundreds of our PAK FA against them, 70-90 is enough pieces maybe ...
    1. Hammer
      Hammer 17 May 2012 09: 48
      +4
      Well, given the length of our borders and the J-20 being developed by the Chinese, then we won’t manage with either 70, 90, or 100 cars ... but given that our T-50 is cheaper than an American once .... .... the right amount for our air force. And if the Hindus still do not jump off the topic, bent by pin-dos under the F-35, then finally everything will be in chocolate. But is there enough determination for our leadership to bring everything to its logical end. But this is not only the plane itself, but also missiles, and engines, and much more ...
      1. Muxalet
        Muxalet 17 May 2012 10: 09
        +8
        No need to engage in cap-making .... On this plane, the amers filled a lot of cones ... and accordingly, the proper conclusions were drawn ... we can talk a lot about the fact that this is a waste of time and money ... but whoever is not mistaken does nothing .... in any case, in these technologies, amers are ahead of Russia ... to understand this, it is not necessary to be a narrow-profile aviation specialist ... We can of course set 10-15 Dryers against 1 Raptor and set the number ... but besides technology, the pilots will die, and the number is not in American favor ....
        But actually, once amers made good planes, but now they are only expensive.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 May 2012 13: 41
          -5
          A raptor alone will not exit. And there aren’t so many dryers to set like that.
        2. CC-18a
          CC-18a 18 May 2012 05: 08
          +3
          Quote: Muxalet
          , in these technologies, amers are ahead of Russia ..

          You know, there is such a book in which records are written ... well, there are how many minutes you can eat upside down, or the farthest spit with a triple sheepskin coat.
          In everything and everyone it is impossible to get ahead ... for in such cases it turns out that we are ahead of us both in dullness. It may be difficult to understand, but I hope you will understand what it is about.
          So it is with this invisibility of the rapotor. They are ahead in terms of inconspicuousness in the configuration of the airframe only because they were doing it and we got down to it and decided that we should not do it. Only here the amers very well then publicized it all, the only thing they know how to do is PR. As a result, the brains of the whole planet are shredded and twisted as they want, and FIGs now you can prove to you that in the USSR, at one time, long before the United States, they worked on this topic and, on the basis of not laws of physics and mathematics, concluded that the movement was deadlock.
          Yes, the United States moved farther than anyone else ... but is it good or bad? that’s the question ... as I wrote about the book above ... there are all sorts of useless achievements! stealth in my opinion in this regard just.
          Say that stealth or high speed with a powerful radar and long-range missiles is more important, it is f22 and mig31 ... in my opinion mig31 is preferable dry for those reasons, current mig31 did not open just that’s the whole point. Moreover, f22 is quite visible by our air defense forces.
          Here we have mig31, the fastest and highest altitude fighter with powerful radar ... mig31BM is even cooler ... is that not a reason to be proud and shout that the one who flies faster or who sees the radar further will win?

          10-15 Dryers vs 1 Raptor

          1-2 modernized drying (su-27SM for example) is enough.
          Personally, I’m not very worried about these unlucky and steamed f22, I am more concerned about f15 different mods. and f16 a little bit, well, and f18 you can say.
          I just know from life experience, those who scream the most and those who most of all "beat" themselves in the chest are the first to run in cases of battle! and perish. Those who are silent are not PR turn out to be the strongest and most persistent.
  4. borisst64
    borisst64 17 May 2012 09: 49
    +5
    "and his first war looms on the horizon"

    We understand that about Iran, but somehow I do not want to believe. Can it cost?
    1. alex21411
      alex21411 18 May 2012 21: 51
      +1
      God forbid that it will cost ...
  5. Indigo
    Indigo 17 May 2012 10: 03
    +7
    It should be recognized that the progressive movement (albeit delayed) gives a more reliable result. Skipping generation 4 with ++, you can in details with a good car get into something bad that will essentially kill the car.
    This is really much more costly and a headache.
  6. Joker
    Joker 17 May 2012 10: 44
    +11
    The F-22 is a good aircraft, but due to wild cuts in the US Army, it will not be finalized soon. The Americans, with their policies, divide and conquer, dug a hole for themselves, they now have no allies at all, there is a crowd of hangers-on who will scatter if they are not financially stimulated. But if they went our way, helped Canada, Mexico, Brazil, then they would have a powerful enclave in the end, which would be separated from other countries by sea. Plus, it would be possible to develop the same raptors together with allies, real allies, and not hangers-on, and then I think they would have everything cheaper and better, but while they locked themselves up and mess around, they don’t have enough ideas, debts, the country is falling apart and that's it the government, like rats on a sinking ship, is trying to grab a piece of fat and jump from it. In pursuit of money and power, they populated the population, so that they would not be indignant, would breed gay people and any shusher, and in the end they would end like their beloved Romans, they would be captured by barbarians (that is, we smile ) Only a reduction in the army can help the Americans now, and the money saved must be allowed into the economy and to pay off debt, no one is going to attack them, no one needs them. To pay money to everyone for moral damage and finally bring about normal democracy as it was intended, the minority should not rule the majority, that’s all, that’s democracy, freedom of choice. But the Americans will not do this, because the government does not have patriots, but uncles with vacuum cleaners to collect money and America will whimper for another ten years and die completely and in its place a dozen different countries will end up in the civil war in 1861. all the same, the Confederates won and in the Cold War we won wink
    1. saruman
      saruman 17 May 2012 12: 54
      +5
      Joker, straight to the point! I think so. I have respect for Americans, but there are fewer such Americans. The nation of entrepreneurs and hard workers is turning into speculators and dibiloids. Worst of all, we are being asked to copy "American democracy" in its infancy and complete degradation.

      And the project F22 "Raptor" reminds me of the Soviet T-64 tank, the same breakthrough and high-tech, but having a lot of flaws, did not participate in real battles and was not exported anywhere. However, I already wrote about this ..
  7. Jeen
    Jeen 17 May 2012 10: 49
    +4
    Explanatory article
  8. Dub4ik
    Dub4ik 17 May 2012 11: 08
    +3
    Oh, how fun it will be if the Iranian "old man" F-14 blows the Raptor laughing
    1. ecdy
      ecdy 17 May 2012 11: 55
      -6
      Dreaming is not harmful
      1. Eugene
        Eugene 17 May 2012 12: 58
        +9
        Yes, actually there is nothing impossible and there are examples of this: F-117 shot down by the ancient S-125 air defense system
      2. Dub4ik
        Dub4ik 17 May 2012 13: 36
        +7
        ecdy,
        Quote: ecdy
        Dreaming is not harmful

        why so? they seem to be able to maintain F 14 in good condition without US support. The aircraft itself is not bad (and you should not forget about the AIM-54 missile). Well, I think that the pilots are more prepared than Iraqi, so that they will receive a strong rebuff in case of something.
  9. sania1304
    sania1304 17 May 2012 12: 32
    +1
    How can I change the flag?
    1. matvey.z
      matvey.z 17 May 2012 23: 05
      0
      Quote: sania1304
      How can I change the flag?

      answer: it is necessary to change citizenship .....
      joke.
      Start-Control Panel \ Network and Internet \ Network and Sharing Center
      On the left, the 2nd (Change adapter settings) is something through which the connection left click, the right property is 0CP / IPv4-property- Use the following IP address
      (if the provider allows)
  10. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 17 May 2012 13: 11
    +3
    I read the article. The impression is good. Comments smiled. Only a few cap-tune moods are frustrating.
  11. EJIEKTPOBO3
    EJIEKTPOBO3 17 May 2012 13: 17
    -1
    PAK FA will soon be swept out of the sky F-22 around the world. American trash has no chance
    1. Tirpitz
      Tirpitz 17 May 2012 13: 32
      +4
      What is hatred for? PAK Fa already in the series? How many have entered service? Is there any operating experience? Any problems detected and resolved? On June 21, the same mood reigned in the USSR army; on 23, it quickly changed.
      1. EJIEKTPOBO3
        EJIEKTPOBO3 17 May 2012 13: 42
        +4
        Quote: Tirpitz
        PAK Fa is already in the series?

        F-22 planned 750, but even 200 units were not built. Production of the American freak is stopped, the future belongs to PAK FA

        Quote: Tirpitz
        Is there any operating experience?

        The F-22 also does not have it, not in one battle this miracle did not participate

        Quote: Tirpitz
        Any problems detected and resolved?

        At Raptor all problems are detected and fixed? laughing wassat lol
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 May 2012 13: 42
      -5
      And how soon?
      1. EJIEKTPOBO3
        EJIEKTPOBO3 17 May 2012 13: 48
        0
        According to the State Defense Order, serial production of the T-50 PAK FA and delivery of the fighter to the Armed Forces is planned to begin in 2015-2017.
        1. Joker
          Joker 17 May 2012 14: 04
          +2
          Really soon, already in 3 of the year, during this time it is possible to design the 6 generation aircraft. Let's not guess ahead of time how we will see the characteristics of the package, then we will compare.
          1. EJIEKTPOBO3
            EJIEKTPOBO3 17 May 2012 14: 26
            +3
            Quote: Joker
            Let's not guess ahead of time how we will see the characteristics of the package, then we will compare.


            They are already known - PAK FA is in many ways better than F-22
            1. Dub4ik
              Dub4ik 17 May 2012 14: 48
              0
              Quote: EJIEKTPOBO3
              They are already known - PAK FA is in many ways better than F-22

              um ... are they famous? and where you can read about it? smile
            2. Russian sniper
              Russian sniper 17 May 2012 14: 50
              +2
              Compare PAK FA and F-22 so far only on paper or in a virtual battle. smile Cars will show themselves completely only in a real battle in the air.
        2. Tirpitz
          Tirpitz 17 May 2012 17: 20
          -1
          It’s just that it is planned to start deliveries from 2015-2017 (at best), look at the fulfillment of the state order, the signing of contracts, then laugh. The pace of production? How much a year? 10-20? China has already built a second instance, we have four of them. The main thing here is production volumes and training for pilots, they (USA) have 187 pieces flying, crews are trained.
          1. CC-18a
            CC-18a 18 May 2012 05: 17
            +1
            do not fly)))
            More precisely, they fly like this near the base now.
            And more recently, they flew low, because of a caisson illness, it seems, now it seems the same way, there is a ban, they don’t let fly too high.
            Prior to this, there were restrictions on cruising speed, it is known for some reason that it was forbidden to fly fast and too sharply laughing about how !!!
            As pilots who have never felt betrayed their aircraft will show themselves in battle ... it’s clear that it’s bad! as cadets after 2-3 flights only. This is not hatred, but a dry, sound, logical analytics.
            Yes, and in operation f22 many flights were prohibited many times.

            These are the pies)))
            Reality is one thing and PR is another; PR is a chemical / tank. Hussein’s weapon and powerful f22, the reality is that Hussein didn’t have an x ​​/ tank of weapons, and f22 is most likely an ordinary airplane at f18 level.
            1. alex21411
              alex21411 18 May 2012 21: 59
              +2
              Catch positive + drinks
  12. Letun
    Letun 17 May 2012 14: 53
    +6
    EJIEKTPOBO3
    And when did they have a good time with aviation? They didn’t succeed even with the fourth generation - the Su-27 and MiG-29 surpassed the expensive and bulky F-15 and single-engine F-16 by head
    ,
    And about this you ask A.I. Pokryshkin and his pilots. They famously fought on the Cobras. I would not say so confidently that the United States has a poor school of aircraft manufacturing. In the same Korea, our MiG-15 pilots also did not consider Sabers to be a bad aircraft. The bulk of the Americans shot down there flew on the F-84, F-80, and other technology inferior in performance characteristics to MiGs.
    The US has problems with a 5th generation fighter because they have a 5th generation fighter. We do not have such problems yet because, well, you understand ...
    1. Muxalet
      Muxalet 17 May 2012 19: 02
      0
      And then we released them already in pursuit ... :)
  13. volcano
    volcano 17 May 2012 16: 26
    +5
    I support everyone who talks about the danger of hatred. Our PAK FA is not ready yet. How many of them put into service is not known. On the other hand, the production speed of the Raptors was impressive. YES and the size of our Army and in particular the Air Force is alarming. All the same, quantity matters. And as for our dryers, which the Raptor will tear in anticipation of the appearance of PAK FA, I can express not my own opinion, but my professional opinion (pilot of the Lipetsk air center) that we need 1 of our dryers for 5 Raptor. though I don’t remember which ones. For what I bought, for what I sold. THE ENEMY IS BETTER TO REVALUATE. THEN IT WILL BE EASY BETTER.
  14. Tirpitz
    Tirpitz 17 May 2012 17: 10
    -1
    Quote: EJIEKTPOBO3
    F-22 planned 750, but even 200 units were not built. Production of the American freak is stopped, the future belongs to PAK FA

    PAK FA do not even plan to 250.
    Quote: EJIEKTPOBO3
    The F-22 also does not have it, not in one battle this miracle did not participate

    Operational experience and combat use are two different things.
    Quote: EJIEKTPOBO3
    At Raptor all problems are detected and fixed?

    Not all. But they are discovered and eliminated.
  15. MacTavish
    MacTavish 17 May 2012 17: 41
    -3
    F-22 plastic trough flies like plywood over Paris
  16. Prorox
    Prorox 17 May 2012 19: 58
    +2
    Well, this "miracle" does not fly, as it was stated, you have to come up with excuses in the course of the "play", I do not want to mess around with amers anymore, like with a stealth system (a microwave and C-125 are attached), a laser airplane is useless fun, which is remarkable again dug out to see the loot it took a cut.
  17. Obie
    Obie 17 May 2012 20: 19
    -1
    The people, so which plane can really replace the F-22 with the Americans in the next 10 years ???
    1. sedoii
      sedoii 17 May 2012 23: 08
      0
      In my opinion, the bet will be placed on the F-26 Stalma
      By the versatility of this aircraft, the silence around it.
  18. Diesel
    Diesel 17 May 2012 22: 40
    +4
    The main advantage of the raptor is its stealthotherwise it’s no better than 4th generation aircraft, it’s all about missile capabilities (interference immunity, range, launch speed, maneuverability, active GPS, passive GPS, etc.) Yes, it can detect further and launch a couple of missiles, but these missiles fired at maximum distance - a drop in the ocean, any missile defense and the release of traps will bring all efforts to naught, if he wants a real threat to provide it will have to come closer and there they will most likely find him and the planes will be in approximately equal position and again it comes down to pilot experience, aircraft maneuverability and missile efficiency. My opinion is that stealth on KILLERS completely useless, because modern means of destruction do not allow to hit targets at those distances where there is a guaranteed advantage of stealth
    1. matvey.z
      matvey.z 17 May 2012 23: 16
      +2
      Quote: Diesel
      The main advantage of the raptor is its stealth,

      Not only:
      Traction Control Vector
      Rectangular nozzle
      Reducing infrared radiation (blowing air into the nozzle from the 1st circuit
      Increased survival, the principle of "First look - first kill" (the first discovered - the first hit).
      Thermoplastic carbon plastics (Avimid K-III "DuPont") - maintainability and heat resistance, improved characteristics of permissible damage.
      Cruising supersonic speed (without afterburner)
      Integrated communication system
      Launching missiles and dropping bombs from internal compartments at supersonic speeds.
      1. Old skeptic
        Old skeptic 18 May 2012 02: 21
        +3
        Quote: matvey.z
        Traction Control Vector

        Only in one plane

        Quote: matvey.z
        Rectangular nozzle

        This is good, but the draft vector is not all-round.

        Quote: matvey.z
        Increased survival, the principle of "First look - first kill" (the first found - the first hit)

        This is an enemy radar issue.

        Quote: matvey.z
        Thermoplastic carbon plastics (Avimid K-III "DuPont") - maintainability and heat resistance, improved characteristics of permissible damage.

        Maintainability of plastics is a moot point, and heat resistance all the more

        Quote: matvey.z
        Cruising supersonic speed (without afterburner)

        Engine issue

        Quote: matvey.z
        Integrated communication system

        Do we have such systems?


        Quote: matvey.z
        Launching missiles and dropping bombs from internal compartments at supersonic speeds.

        Supersonic discharge from hatches wink and the sash will not tear?

        We get the Su-35, which has been produced for ten years, true for others. But it is cheaper and its ancestor is S-27, which means it is possible to increase production if that.
        I think so.
      2. Ares
        Ares 19 May 2012 13: 23
        +1
        Quote: matvey.z
        Not only:
        Traction Control Vector
        Rectangular nozzle
        Reducing infrared radiation (blowing air into the nozzle from the 1st circuit
        Increased survival, the principle of "First look - first kill" (the first discovered - the first hit).
        Thermoplastic carbon plastics (Avimid K-III "DuPont") - maintainability and heat resistance, improved characteristics of permissible damage.
        Cruising supersonic speed (without afterburner)
        Integrated communication system
        Launching missiles and dropping bombs from internal compartments at supersonic speeds.


        And please do not forget that he has the most advanced radar from all the serial fighters in the world, and one must also assume the greatest maneuverability. (UVT, thrust-weight ratio, aerodynamic number, wing load) Yes, and the possibilities for the supercritical are impressive, he does not only cobra, but also somersault (complete coup).
  19. Ilyich
    Ilyich 18 May 2012 05: 16
    +4
    I reason as an amateur, but I remember the saying that a good plane looks beautiful. (with which I agree) So: does it seem to me alone that this glider is slightly pregnant?
  20. Diesel
    Diesel 18 May 2012 07: 27
    +1
    Ilyich, In the picture PTB chtoli ?! and why then stealth? laughing
    1. Ilyich
      Ilyich 18 May 2012 19: 43
      +2
      do i know I say: amateur smile
  21. Diesel
    Diesel 18 May 2012 07: 50
    +1
    Quote: matvey.z

    Traction Control Vector

    For DVB is not effective
    Quote: matvey.z
    Rectangular nozzle
    Reducing infrared radiation (blowing air into the nozzle from the 1st circuit

    But is this not done for the sake of stealth?
    Quote: matvey.z
    Increased survival, the principle of "First look - first kill" (the first discovered - the first hit).

    Survivability is at the level of other fighters, but "the first to find, the first to kill" will work if the enemy aircraft is inactive at all
    Quote: matvey.z
    Thermoplastic carbon plastics (Avimid K-III "DuPont") - maintainability and heat resistance, improved characteristics of permissible damage.

    + 50 to coolness, yes? laughing
    Quote: matvey.z
    Cruising supersonic speed (without afterburner)

    In BVB will not help
    Quote: matvey.z
    Integrated communication system

    Okay
    Quote: matvey.z
    Launching missiles and dropping bombs from internal compartments at supersonic speeds.

    And what is better than simple pendants ?! -_-
  22. Follow us
    Follow us 18 May 2012 10: 40
    +1
    He laughs well who laughs last who has S-400 smile
  23. Pilot200809
    Pilot200809 18 May 2012 13: 53
    +1
    Follow us, The one who shoots first laughs well (phrase of the famous general) ... more on the text laughing