Artillery. Large caliber. 122-mm howitzer M-30 model 1938 of the year

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The M-30 howitzer is probably known to everyone. The famous and legendary weapon of the workers' and peasants, Soviet, Russian and many other armies. Any documentary about the Great Patriotic War almost certainly includes firing shots with an M-30 battery. Even today, despite its age, it is a weapon in service in many armies of the world.



And by the way, 80 years, as it were ...

Artillery. Large caliber. 122-mm howitzer M-30 model 1938 of the year


So, today we are talking about the 122-mm howitzer model 1938, the M-30. About howitzer, which many artillery experts call the era. And foreign experts - the most common tool in stories artillery (about 20 thousands of units). The system, where the old, tried by the long-term exploitation of other tools, solutions, and new, previously unknown, were combined in the most organic way.

In the previous publication of this article, we talked about the most numerous howitzer of the Red Army of the prewar period — the 122-mm howitzer of the 1910 / 30 type. It was this howitzer in the second year of the war that replaced the M-30 in numbers. According to data from various sources, in 1942, the number of M-30 was already greater than its predecessor.

There are a lot of materials about creating a system. Understand literally all the nuances of the competition of different design bureaus, tactical and technical characteristics of the guns, design features and so on. The views of the authors of such articles are sometimes diametrically opposed.

I would not like to analyze all the details of such disputes. Therefore, we mark the historical part of the narrative with a dotted line, leaving the readers the right to their own opinion on this issue. The opinion of the authors is only one of many and cannot be the only true and final one.

So, the 122-mm howitzer of the 1910 / 30 model was already outdated by the middle of the 30-s. That "small modernization", which was held in 1930 year, only extended the life of this system, but did not return to her youth and functionality. That is, the instrument could still serve; the whole question is how. The niche of the divisional howitzers would soon be empty. And everyone understood that. The command of the Red Army, the leaders of the state and the designers themselves artillery systems.

In 1928, there was even a rather heated discussion on this issue after the publication of an article in the Journal of the Artillery Committee. Disputes were fought in all directions. From combat use and design tools, to the necessary and sufficient caliber howitzers. Based on the experience of the First World War, several calibers were rightly considered at once, from 107 to 122 mm.

The task for the development of an artillery system to replace the outdated divisional howitzer designers received 11 August 1929 year. In researches on the issue of howitzer gauge, there is no unequivocal answer about choosing the 122 mm. The authors tend to the simplest and most logical explanation.

Ammunition of this particular caliber of the Red Army was enough. Moreover, the country had the opportunity to produce these munitions in the required quantity in existing plants. And third, the logistics of ammunition delivery was as simple as possible. The most numerous howitzer (sample 1910 / 30) and a new howitzer could be supplied “from one box”.

It makes no sense to describe problems at the “birth” and preparation for the serial production of the M-30 howitzer. This is beautifully told in the Encyclopedia of the Domestic Artillery, probably the most authoritative historian of artillery A. B. Shirokorad.

The tactical and technical requirements for the new divisional howitzer of the Red Army Artillery Directorate sounded in September 1937. The requirements are tough enough. Especially in the shutter part. AU required a wedge gate (promising and having great potential for modernization). Engineers and designers also understood that this system is not reliable enough.

The development of the howitzers was carried out at once by three design offices: the Ural Machine-Building Plant (Uralmash), Plant No. 172 named after Molotov (Motovilikha, Perm) and Gorky Plant No. XXUMX (Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant).

The samples of howitzers presented by these plants were quite interesting. But the Ural development (Y-2) was significantly inferior to Gorky (F-25) and Perm (M-30) in ballistics. Therefore, it was not considered as promising.


Howitzer W-2



Howitzer F-25 (with high probability)

We will consider some TTX F-25 / M-30.

Barrel length, mm: 2800 / 2800
Rate of fire, rpm: 5-6 / 5-6
Initial velocity of the projectile, m / s: 510 / 515
Angle HV, degrees: -5 ... + 65 / -3 ... + 63
Firing Range, m: 11780 / 11800
Ammunition, index, weight: OF-461, 21, 76
Weight in combat position, kg: 1830 / 2450
Calculation people: 8 / 8
Issued, pcs: 17 / 19 266

It is not by chance that we brought part of the TTX in one table. It is in this version that the main advantage of the F-25, the weight of the gun, seems to be clearly seen. Agree, the difference of more than half a ton is impressive. And, probably, this fact became the main one in the definition of this design by the Shirokorad as the best. Mobility of such a system is unquestionably higher. It is a fact.

True, there is a "buried dog", in our opinion. Provided for testing M-30 were somewhat easier to serial. Because the gap in the mass was not so noticeable.

There is a question about the decision. Why M-30? Why not more light F-25.

The first and main version was also sounded by 23 March 1939 of the year in the same "Journal of Artillery Committee" No.086: "122-mm howitzer F-25, developed by factory No.92 on an initiative basis, is not of interest for AU now, since The ground and field tests of the M-30 howitzer, more powerful than the F-25, have been completed. "

Agree, such a statement at the time puts a lot in its place. There is a howitzer. The howitzer was tested and there is nothing more to spend people's money on the development of useless tools. Continuation of further work in this direction was fraught for designers with "moving to any sharashka" with the help of the NKVD.

By the way, the authors in this regard agree with some researchers on the installation of an old good piston valve on the M-30, not a wedge. Most likely, the designers went for a direct violation of the requirements of the AU precisely because of the reliability of the piston valve.

Problems with the semi-automatic wedge bolt at that time were also observed in smaller caliber guns. For example, F-22, the universal divisional 76-mm gun.

Winners are not judged. Although, this is from which side to look. Risked of course. In November, 1936 was arrested and sentenced to the 5 years of imprisonment by the chief of the OKB of the Motovilikhinsky plant, BA Berger, a similar fate befell in January of the following year, the leading designer of the ML-152 howitzer A. M Ploskirev.

After this, it is clear that the developers are striving to use the piston valve that has already been tried and tested in production in order to avoid possible accusations of wrecking in case of problems with its wedge-type construction.

And there is another nuance. The F-25 howitzer, which is smaller than its competitors, was provided by the machine tool and the carriage from the 76-mm cannon. The gun was more mobile, but it had a smaller resource due to a more "flimsy" gun carriage. Naturally, the 122-mm projectile gave a completely different recoil impulse than the 76-mm. The muzzle brake, apparently, at that time did not provide the proper reduction of the impulse.

Obviously, the lighter and mobile F-25 was preferred to a stronger and more powerful M-30.

By the way, we found further confirmation of this hypothesis in the fate of M-30. We often write that constructively successful field implements were soon "transplanted" to the already used or captured chassis and continued to fight as SPGs. The same fate awaited M-30.

Parts of the M-30 were used to create the SU-122 (on the trophy chassis StuG III and on the chassis T-34). However, the machines were unsuccessful. M-30, with all its might, was quite heavy. Tumbovaya installation of weapons on the SU-122 took up a lot of space in the combat compartment of the SAU, creating significant inconvenience to the crew. The large departure forward of the recoil devices with their armor made it difficult to view from the driver’s seat and did not allow to place a full-fledged manhole for him on the front plate.



But the main thing is the middle base tank was too fragile for such a powerful weapon.

From the use of this system refused. But the attempts did not end there. In particular, M-30 was used in one of the variants of the now famous Vialad-assisted ACS Violet. But they preferred the versatile 120-mm gun.

The second disadvantage for the F-25 could just be its smaller mass in combination with the already mentioned muzzle brake.

The lighter the weapon, the greater its chances of using it for direct support of its forces with fire.

By the way, it was precisely in such a role at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War that the M-30, which was poorly suited for such purposes, more than once or twice performed Not from a good life, of course.

Naturally, powder gases that are deflected by a muzzle brake, raising dust, sand, soil particles or snow, will more easily yield the position F-25 compared to M-30. Yes, and when shooting from closed positions at a short distance from the front line at a small angle of elevation, the possibility of such unmasking should be considered. Someone in the AU could easily take all this into account.

Now directly about howitzer design. Structurally, it consists of the following elements:

- a barrel with a free pipe, a casing covering the pipe approximately to the middle, and a screw-up breech;



- the piston lock opening to the right. Closing and opening the shutter was done by turning the handle. In the gate, a percussion mechanism with a linearly moving drummer, a helical combat spring and a rotary trigger were mounted, and for triggering and lowering the trigger the trigger was pulled off by a trigger cord. Throwing out of the cartridge case from the chamber was made when the shutter was opened by the ejector in the form of a crank arm. There was a safety mechanism that prevented premature unlocking of the bolt during long shots;



- a mast that included a cradle, recoil devices, an upper machine, pick-up mechanisms, a balancing mechanism, a lower machine with a sliding box-shaped bed, combat propulsion and suspension, sighting devices and shield cover.



The cradle of the clip-on type was placed with pins in the nests of the upper machine.

The recoil system included a rollback hydraulic brake (under the barrel) and a hydropneumatic knurler (above the barrel).



Upper machine pin inserted into the socket of the lower machine. A shock absorber with springs provided the posted position of the upper machine relative to the lower one and facilitated its rotation. On the left side of the upper machine there was mounted a screw turning mechanism, on the right side - a sector lifting mechanism.



Combat move - with two wheels, drum brakes, switchable transverse plate spring. Switching off and turning on the cushioning was carried out automatically when pushing and sliding the bed.







Sights included a sight, independent of the gun (with two arrows) and the panorama of Hertz.





In the history of this legendary howitzer there are still a lot of white spots. The story continues. Contradictory, largely incomprehensible, but history. The brainchild of the design team under the leadership of F. F. Petrov is so harmonious that it still serves. Moreover, it fit perfectly not only in the infantry formations, but also in tank, mechanized and motorized units.

And not only our army in the past, but now. More than two dozen countries continue to be armed with M-30. Which indicates that the gun was more than.

By taking part in almost all wars, beginning with the Second World War, M-30 proved its reliability and unpretentiousness, having received the highest rating from the artillery Marshal G.F. Odintsov: "Nothing can be better than it."

Of course, it can.

After all, all the best that was in the M-30 howitzer was embodied in the X-NUMX-mm howitzer D-122 (30-2), which became a worthy heir to M-18. But about her, of course, will be a separate conversation.

We thank the administration of the Museum of Domestic Military History in Padikovo for providing a copy of the howitzer.
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  1. +2
    11 June 2018 06: 24
    The M-30 proved its reliability and unpretentiousness, having received the highest mark of artillery marshal G. F. Odintsov: “Nothing can be better than it.”
    Of course, it can.
    After all, all the best that was in the M-30 howitzer was embodied in the 122-mm howitzer D-30 (2A18), which became the worthy heir to the M-30.

    In fact, comparing the M-30 and D-30 is incorrect. M-30 weighs 2400 kg, D-30 3200 kg. The M-30 projectile at maximum charge has an initial velocity of 515 m / s, and the D-30 has 690 m / s. The maximum firing range of the M-30 is 11,8 km, the D-30 is 15,3 km. The D-30 has a three-station carriage of circular rotation, the M-30 has a classic sliding two-station carriage. The D-30 is a howitzer of a new, post-war generation, and comparing it to the M-30 is just as incorrect as comparing the M-30 and 122-mm howitzers of 1909 and 1910.
    1. +3
      11 June 2018 11: 09
      Why is it incorrect? One came from the other, given the lack of previous models. Evolution however.
      The large mass of the D-30 is quite explainable by a three-carriage carriage and a longer barrel.
      The high initial velocity of the projectile - again, due to the longer barrel.
      Again, firing at maximum range from either the M-30 or the D-30 was practically not used, perhaps in very rare cases. The most commonly used shooting distance is within 4-9 km.
      1. +1
        11 June 2018 11: 46
        Why is it incorrect? One came from the other, given the lack of previous models. Evolution however.
        These are different generations of howitzers! You will not compare the T-34-85 and T-44, although they are both armed with an 85 mm gun? T-34-85 and T-44 are tanks of different generations.
        Again, firing at maximum range from either the M-30 or the D-30 was practically not used, perhaps in very rare cases. The most commonly used shooting distance is within 4-9 km.

        The maximum firing range of the M-30 is 11,8 km, so of course that they didn’t shoot further than 9 km, since dispersion at maximum range becomes too large. As for the D-30, this is a regimental level howitzer, so there was no need to shoot it further than 9 km. At the divisional level, there were more powerful guns.
        1. Alf
          +4
          11 June 2018 12: 25
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          T-34-85 and T-44 are tanks of different generations.

          And what are they fundamentally different in? The gun is the same, dvigun -V-2. The case is almost the same. If I may say so, the T-44 is the thirty-four brought to the ideal.
          1. +4
            11 June 2018 12: 44
            The other is running, the layout is different, the case is different, the radio operator-shooter is removed, there is no ball apple and mechanical drive hatch on the VLD. Based on the fact that the tanks have the same guns and engine, do you think they are the same? Original however! Maybe then you think the T-34-76 and KV are the same tanks? And what? The cannon is the same, the V-2 dvigun is also in both tanks - than the same tanks according to your logic!
            1. Alf
              +3
              11 June 2018 16: 25
              Fundamental new what? B-2 across? Not serious. Is the case very different? No. Chassis new-torsion bars, so they stood on the HF and IS. Removing the machine gun and transferring the hatch of the mech is a fundamental difference?
              The new generation tank is the T-64.
              1. +2
                11 June 2018 19: 08
                Ah, yes, yes. I understood you. For you, the T-34 and FT-17 are one and the same tank. The dialogue with you is over. You are a troll.
                1. Alf
                  +2
                  11 June 2018 19: 44
                  Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                  The dialogue with you is over. You are a troll.

                  Well, run, run. There is nothing to say, there are no real counter-arguments, and there couldn’t be any.
                  1. -1
                    11 June 2018 20: 02
                    Ugh on you!
        2. +2
          11 June 2018 17: 10
          You're not right. T-34-85 and T-44 are tanks of the same generation. Another thing is that the T-44 is a more advanced machine, created taking into account the shortcomings of the "thirty-four." However, it so happened historically that the fate of the Forty-Four was far less heroic. In addition, she appeared too late due to the appearance of an even more advanced tank - “fifty four.”

          I had to deal with howitzers of both systems. I already wrote about the firing range, and there and there they practically did not shoot at the maximum range, although technically there was such an opportunity.

          You correctly wrote "there was no need to shoot further."
          The farther the firing distance, the more difficult and dangerous the adjustment of fire, the greater the ellipse of the dispersion of shells. Again, when firing at full charge, the gun barrel wears out faster, which ultimately affects the accuracy of the fire.

          As for the artillery of the regimental and divisional level, let’s say the artillery divisions of the motorized rifle regiments of our division were armed with 122-mm howitzers. And in the artillery regiment - a whole gallery of artillery systems - 18 122-mm howitzers D-30, 12 152-mm guns "Hyacinth-B", 18 152-mm self-propelled guns "Akatsiya", 4 240 mm mortar M-240, 2 240 mm self-propelled "Tulip", 18 "Grad".
          1. 0
            11 June 2018 19: 46
            So Makar and T-26 and T-50 can be considered tanks of the same generation. And what? The gun is the same, the same light weight category, and the purpose of the T-50 is to replace the T-26.
            1. +2
              11 June 2018 22: 08
              T-26 and T-50 are tanks of different generations. T-50 - a conventional generation tank T-34, like the T-70, as well as the KV-1.
              Everything in your head mixed up like in Oblonsky’s house. smile
              Although, the concept of "generation" for tanks is applicable more for post-war construction.
              Before and during the war, tanks were classified according to a variety of parameters and in different ways - in terms of weight, purpose, number of towers, chassis ... and so on.
              So the weight category or caliber of the gun is not at all an indicator for similarity or difference.
              1. -1
                11 June 2018 22: 21
                You yourself wrote that the T-34-85 and T-44 are tanks of the same generation. So with what fright did you decide to separate the T-50 from the T-26 generation? Yes, they put in a row T-70 and KV. Actually, the T-70 is a tank developed already during the war, it has nothing to do with either pre-war tanks or post-war tanks, since after the war there were no light tanks in the SA. It’s all mixed up in your head, like in the Oblonsky’s house.
                1. +1
                  11 June 2018 22: 36
                  I wrote that the T-34, T-50, T-70, T-44, KV, IS tanks are tanks with bulletproof armor and were created within 5 years.
                  T-26 is a tank with bulletproof armor and it was created in the late 20s, if we consider the creation of the prototype "Vickers 6-ton."
                  The "first generation" tanks include the T-18, BT, T-37/38, T-28, T-35.
                  To the tanks of the "second generation" - T-40, T-50, T-70, T-80, T-34, T-44, KV, IS-2, IS-3.
                  "Third Generation" - T-54/55, T-62, T-64, PT-76, post-war IS, T-10.
                  "Fourth" - the main battle tanks T-64A, T-72, T-80, T-90.
                  "Fifth" - T-14.
                  1. 0
                    11 June 2018 22: 55
                    In fact, the T-44 belongs to your third generation tanks, according to your classification. He has a T-34 in common with only a gun and an engine. The layout and booking is similar to the T-54, in fact the T-54 is the T-44, with only a 100 mm gun.
                    1. 0
                      11 June 2018 23: 26
                      T-44 is a transitional type tank.
                      T-34-85 was created in the 43rd, T-44 - also in the 43rd, T-54 - in 1945.
                      Structurally, differences naturally exist, but they were created almost at the same time.
                      1. 0
                        11 June 2018 23: 30
                        Oh my God!!! T-34-85 is the same T-34 tank, adopted in 1940, only with a new turret and a 85 mm caliber gun!
          2. 0
            13 June 2018 21: 46
            T-44 is a machine of a completely different generation and design. With transverse engine and torsion bar suspension. This is the T-54. T-54 - This is a redesigned T-44-100. When it became clear that the war was nearing its end, it was possible to double on the T-34-85, and the T-44 should be made suitable for continuous operation in peacetime. And not for 3 fights, like the T-34.
    2. +2
      11 June 2018 12: 22
      I saw these (M-30) howitzers in Afghanistan (Fayzobad) in 1984: they shot their ammunition before being sent to the Union. As I understand it, sending to the Union was for cancellation.
      1. 0
        11 June 2018 22: 10
        And the point of shooting?
        1. +2
          11 June 2018 22: 53
          Quote: Cannonball
          And the point of shooting?

          They told me so. The entire ammunition and the one that was in local warehouses, including those intended for these howitzers. Throughout the day, from morning to evening, they hit the mountains (more precisely, at the points at which Dushmans had been noticed before).
          I am not an expert, but maybe for the M-30 there were shells that were not suitable for firing from the D-30 (they were in the regiment), and there was no point in leaving them in warehouses, after the M-30 was sent to the Union.
          1. 0
            12 June 2018 01: 28
            M-30 and D-30 seem to use some ammunition.
      2. +1
        13 June 2018 06: 12
        I once exported them from there around the same years. Type for repair. 42 pieces of broken weapons. Production 43 and above, but the war years. Repair in Omsk consisted of unloading with a magnet and for scrap. But my question about the repair the foreman answered: -And what is there to repair? You gouged there trunks and all howitzers. We don’t even take them for spare parts ... But the guns worked there for sure ... Not from old age they "died" ... in battle ...
  2. +6
    11 June 2018 06: 53
    Parts of the M-30 were used to create the SU-122 (on the captured StuG III chassis ....)

    Interestingly, when examining the howitzers installed as monuments, it turns out that many of them are still pre-war and of war ... it is surprising that they survived. Here is how this howitzer in the photo, with a riveted bed.
  3. +2
    11 June 2018 07: 37
    Dear authors, tell me, how was the gun guided?
    The fact is that the arrangement of horizontal and vertical guidance mechanisms implies their maintenance with different calculation numbers. Or did the gunner on the left have another handle to control the vertical guidance mechanism?
    For example, at D-30, the handles of the guidance mechanisms are located in one place - near the sight ...
    1. +4
      11 June 2018 11: 24
      From the "Short manual for artillery calculation of 122 mm howitzers model 1938 M-30"

      "Gun commander manages the battle of the gun and the calculation, monitors the battlefield, gives and transmits commands to the gun calculation, points to the target, calculates corrections, sight, pointing angle, determines the type, type of ammunition, type of charge, provides general guidance for the calculation. "

      Actually, "pointing to the target, calculating corrections, sight, pointing angle, determining the type, type of ammunition, type of charge" - work calculator artillery batteries.

      "aimer directs the gun at the target with the help of sights, reports on the readiness of the gun for firing a shot. In case of death, the commander replaces him. "

      "Castle makes vertical aiming guns. It opens and closes the gun’s shutter, monitors the correct placement of the projectile and the charge into the gun’s breech, reports on the distance of the gun’s recoil after firing. "

      "Charging monitors the correct type and type of ammunition, setting the fuse, tube on the projectile, inserts the projectile and charge with the aid of the gun into the breech of the gun, and makes the shot of the gun with the help of the cord. "

      "Installer reports on the type and type of ammunition, charge, sets the fuse on the projectile by type: high-explosive / high-explosive, the tube for the distance of the explosion, changes the charge: full / half, transfers the projectile and charge to the Shell "

      "Shell with a gun there are three shells: the first Shell projectile having received a shell from the Installer puts it into the breech, the second Shell projectile having received a charge from the Installer puts it after the shell, the third shell takes away from the position the shell from the charge. "
      1. +2
        11 June 2018 15: 55
        Quote: Cannonball
        Actually, "pointing to the target, calculating corrections, sight, pointing angle, determining the type, type of ammunition, type of charge" is the job of the artillery battery calculator.

        Strictly speaking, this is the work of SOB, not a computer. Which either calculates / indicates all of the above, or transfers received from the EMP or the battery commander. The calculator only helps him.

        Well, the amendments are different. The calculator considers the amendments to the shooting conditions. Gun commander - considers and introduces individual corrections of the gun, for a ledge, interval, discrepancy relative to the main gun, etc.
        1. 0
          11 June 2018 17: 38
          I was just a computer, that's why I write. The calculator works with the PUO; it also receives target designation from the battery commander (division), rangefinder, meteorologist, reconnaissance and spotters. He sets the azimuth to the target, the declination angle of the gun’s barrel, and the charge number. Naturally, it is all calculated taking into account many amendments.
          In principle, the gun commander does not solve anything, his task is to track the exact implementation of the instructions received from the calculator. It was not for nothing that they joked that the senior computer was the third person in the art division in importance after the division commander and chief of staff.
          1. 0
            11 June 2018 20: 30
            Quote: Cannonball
            I was just a computer, that's why I write. The calculator works with the PUO; it also receives target designation from the battery commander (division), rangefinder, meteorologist, reconnaissance and spotters. He sets the azimuth to the target, the declination angle of the gun’s barrel, and the charge number. Naturally, it is all calculated taking into account many amendments.

            You had an SOB idler.

            Quote: Cannonball
            In principle, the gun commander does not solve anything

            Yah. And who will introduce individual amendments?
            1. +1
              11 June 2018 21: 47
              It may not have been a bummer, it’s just a feature of our artillery division - the vacancies of full-time calculators on batteries, so I had to be present during the firing, and since I obeyed the division’s chief of staff, not the battalion commanders, the calculations were mine. The battalion commanders and gun commanders had only to transfer commands and control firing.

              During battery firing, gun commanders did not have the right to introduce individual amendments, but they could also punish for amateur performances.
              1. 0
                12 June 2018 06: 51
                Quote: Cannonball
                During battery firing, gun commanders did not have the right to introduce individual amendments, but they could also punish for amateur performances.

                ??
                So where you need to shoot only the main battery gun?
                Scary
                1. 0
                  12 June 2018 08: 55
                  All data for firing was transmitted along the computer-battery-fire platoon-gun chain.
          2. +2
            11 June 2018 23: 27
            Quote: Cannonball
            I was just a computer, that's why I write.

            Sorry, but it wasn’t you being called up as a tank commander in the subject of IP / Tiger?

            Your life, saturated, apparently, was taking shape.
            1. +1
              12 June 2018 09: 09
              Saturated. wink Should have been drafted into the GB troops, called up as a tank commander - it didn’t grow together, other "buyers" showed up - got on the Afghan border in artillery, there was a training just near the famous bridge, 4-5 kilometers from the border, So, it turns out, and the border guard stayed a bit, because they spent half the time directly at the border. Then, it turns out, he was a little paratrooper. True, without parachuting, vest and beret. But “beyond the river” I had to fly on the An-12 and Il-76, and “on the armor” ride.
              VUS - a computer, the post "across the river" - a senior computer artillery division of 122-mm howitzers. After typhus, transferred to the Union.
              Upon returning to the Union, he served in the automobile regiment a bit, completed his service "out of state" in the VEO TurkVO.
              1. 0
                13 June 2018 06: 18
                Quote: Cannonball
                the training was, kilometers in 4-5 from the border,

                Jarkurgan? Near Kakayta airfield? Famous training. In my opinion, the Termez fortress regiment taxied there ... I still remember the taste of thorns ...
                1. 0
                  13 June 2018 21: 19
                  Termez training in military unit 61436. Part of the regiment was in the city, in the fortress, and we were at the training ground, in the tent city, 7 kilometers east of Termez airport, just north of Akhunbabaev.
  4. +5
    11 June 2018 08: 26
    Naturally, the powder gases deflected by the muzzle brake, raising dust, sand, particles of soil or snow, will more easily give out the F-25 position compared to the M-30.
    I constantly see and hear this otmaz. With my own eyes I have repeatedly watched the shooting of tank guns and, in my opinion, sand and dust at the same time takes off no less, and even more, than when shooting a more powerful "acacia" ...
    1. +1
      11 June 2018 23: 02
      What are the excuses? The tank has a reservation, so its discovery does not guarantee its destruction! The battery found by art is easily affected even by mortar fire. To be shorter, the resistance under fire of the tank is much higher than that of guns
    2. 0
      13 June 2018 06: 21
      Hmm ... I somehow happened to be ahead of the tank when fired. Meters on 150. The grass burned around and we were crazy ... Only the difference between the gun and the howitzer you do not take into account. The cannon shoots aggressively and dust is inevitable. And the tank actually works on the front end. Therefore, it is well-armored ...
  5. +10
    11 June 2018 08: 37
    The M-30 had 2 numbers per crew, serving horizontal and vertical guidance. The D-30 was initially given the function of also an anti-tank gun, so the helms on the one hand.
    I do not agree with the assessment of SU-122 based on the T-34. The base of the medium tank was quite suitable for the M-30 howitzer. Released 660 self-propelled guns. Release ceased due to the urgent need for anti-tank self-propelled guns, the SU-85 went into the series. One of the variants of this self-propelled gun included the installation of a 122-mm howitzer, such a machine was needed, the army asked for it. But the production of precisely anti-tank systems in 1943 and early 1944 was over-relevant, the T-34-85 have not yet gone into production, and the howitzer self-propelled gun has not yet been put into production, although it has been tested.
    Let’s recall the SU-100 then, the power of the original sea gun was much more than the 122 mm howitzer.
    1. +10
      11 June 2018 11: 20
      Yes, this statement also flinched:
      But the main thing - the base of the medium tank was too fragile for such a powerful weapon.

      The pulse of a 122-mm projectile weighing 22 kg and an initial velocity of 515 m / s is 11330 kg * m / s. The impulse of a 100 mm projectile weighing 15 kg and an initial velocity of 900 m / s is equal to 13500 kg * m / s. As an example, we can cite the mass of guns: the M-30 weighs 2400 kg, and the BS-3 weighs 3000 kg. This is despite the fact that BS-3 is equipped with a muzzle brake. That is, it can already be concluded from these characteristics that the recoil momentum of a 100 mm projectile is greater than the recoil momentum of a howitzer 122 mm projectile.
      1. 0
        13 June 2018 11: 58
        During the development of the SU-100 on the basis of its body, the SU-122P installation with a 122-mm gun and ISU-122 gun ballistics was created. It successfully passed the tests and was recommended for adoption (or even adopted, I don’t remember exactly). He didn’t go into the series, in particular, because of Kotin’s opposition, he saw in her a rival for the production of his native ChKZ, well, and because of a shortage of 122 mm guns.
        So an even more powerful weapon than the BS-3 was completely placed on the T-34 base.
  6. +3
    11 June 2018 11: 36
    For vertical interference, the calculation number was responsible - castle. It was he who was responsible for the combination of arrows (visible in the last photo). Arrows are all! Soldering needles, gluing bristles pulled out of a banner and other folk art to increase the accuracy of vertical aiming (that is, in range).
  7. +4
    11 June 2018 11: 49

    The calculation of the Soviet 122-mm howitzer M-30 is fighting against German tanks. The dead gunner lies on the bed.
    1. +5
      11 June 2018 12: 37
      Staged photo. First of all, howitzers must be dug, rather than building straw "redoubts." Secondly, the photographer should have flashed his heels for a long time when attacking German tanks. Thirdly, the M-30 is a division-level artillery, and German tanks must meet forty-five battalion, regiment and division levels, 76-mm regiments attached to the IPTAP division. Moreover, judging by the epaulettes, this action takes place at least not earlier than the summer of 1943, and this is not the summer of 1941 and not the summer of 1942. Fourth, why is the gunner so inconvenient for cancer? Why not stand inside the bed or skip the bed between your legs? Is it really so convenient to aim?


      Fifthly, the M-30 howitzers are simply stupidly not suitable for fighting tanks. And they should be evacuated to the rear in the first place, and not wait with a grim expression on their deaths in the form of German tanks.
      1. +11
        11 June 2018 13: 18
        Sir, your ignoramus is awesome. You boldly judge things you don’t have the slightest idea about and reason with the appearance of a connoisseur about completely removed objects, although you are unlikely to tear your ass from the sofa for a long time. At the same time, you also manage to cheat people, being nobody and with the name nobody.
        Photo is well known. “Fire on tanks! 3rd Belorussian Front, July 1944. A 122-mm M-30 howitzer battery fights against advancing German tanks. The author of the photo was Anatoly Pavlovich Morozov. In August 1941, together with the staff of the Krasny Voyin newspaper Anatoly Morozov went to war in the Moscow Military District. He worked on five fronts, shooting combat operations of the Red Army. He completed the war in Berlin. He was awarded two orders of World War II, the Order of the Red Star, many medals, including "For Military Merit", " For the capture of Vienna "," For the capture of Berlin ".
        1. +3
          11 June 2018 16: 40
          Anatoly Pavlovich Morozov is a well-known and honored photojournalist. But really, he never shot staged shots?
          1. +3
            11 June 2018 18: 34
            You know, I was not outraged by the idea that the shot was staged, but the peremptory with which a person "from the couch" "broadcasts" about how to fight right, but the correspondent who went through the whole war did not know this, the gunners didn’t they knew, therefore, the staging came out completely useless. About flashing heels at front-line correspondents - I don’t even know what to call it.
            Based on the statements of this "expert", it turns out that those 1500 correspondents who died in the Great Patriotic War did not have time to escape?
            Well, about the production shot. Eliminate this 100% could only the author of the picture. However, I strongly believe that this is a production, I doubt it. First, photojournalists perceived their participation in the battles from the same position as everyone who fought with weapons in their hands and saw around them the same harsh reality that was so strong that it did not require any exaggeration or staged external dramatization. To verify this, just review the archives of front-line photographs.
            By the way, Max Alpert’s picture “Combat” was also called staged, because “the photojournalist could not be ahead of everyone.”
            1. -1
              11 June 2018 19: 12
              Stage photo. You at least kill me, but I can’t imagine that the M-30 would shoot from an UNECOPENED position behind STRAW redoubts!
              Well, the most important evidence of staged shots is the gunner’s pose FOR the machine. He would have stood upside down!
              1. +2
                11 June 2018 19: 36
                Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                Stage photo. You at least kill me, but I can’t imagine that the M-30 would shoot from an UNECOPENED position behind STRAW redoubts!

                Doesn’t it reach that the position has only been dipped and covered with straw, hay?
                And why is there a lack of time for engineering equipment, for example, why is it not clear to you?
                Or you just need to throw dirt?
                Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                Well, the most important evidence of staged shots is the gunner’s pose

                Yeah of course ... well, it's just wonderful .. have you been there?
                1. Alf
                  +2
                  11 June 2018 19: 45
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Yeah of course ... well, it's just wonderful .. have you been there?

                  Colleague Vlad! Do not argue, they will tell you now. that you are a troll and run away.
                2. +1
                  11 June 2018 19: 50
                  Well, yes, reporters are right after the advancing troops. And this is at a time when the advancing troops themselves are sorely lacking in ammunition and soldiers. I would throw these reporters in the place of the commander and above, and in their place I would bring 500 kg of shells and mines, or 5 landing men.
              2. +2
                11 June 2018 20: 32
                Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                Well, the most important evidence of staged shots is the gunner’s pose FOR the machine.

                Where else should he get up?
                1. 0
                  11 June 2018 20: 46
                  INSIDE THE MACHINE. When you drive a car, don’t you follow it, opening the doors and running after it, holding only your hands inside the car?
                  1. +4
                    11 June 2018 21: 00
                    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                    only hands

                    I don’t know where you hold your hands there, but in the calculation one was killed .... means what? However, do not answer, everything is clear with you already ...
                    1. 0
                      11 June 2018 21: 08
                      Have you ever watched movies? Have you been to the theater? Do you really think that the corpses in the film and the theater are real?
                      1. +2
                        11 June 2018 21: 15
                        I think you are fake.
                        And with theatrical howls and props, they don’t go to a serious site.
                  2. +2
                    11 June 2018 23: 08

                    And in this photo again, the gunner stands "WRONG" - NOT ON YOURSELF ...
                    1. 0
                      11 June 2018 23: 12
                      Judging by the RIGHT one, who clogs the fasteners of the bipod with a sledgehammer, and the two members of the crew, who clean the trunk with a banner, the situation is not martial. You should at least take a closer look at the photos you insert.
                  3. +2
                    11 June 2018 23: 08

                    And again, "WRONG" ...
                    BATTLES IN THE CITY OF BRESLAU. CALCULATION OF 122-MM M-30 HOWDOWS LEADS THE FIRE ON AN ENEMY. 1st UKRAINIAN FRONT, 6th ARMY, FEBRUARY 1945
                    1. 0
                      11 June 2018 23: 15
                      Wrong. A normal cap commander would give a gunner. So standing, it's like holding your hands on the steering wheel at 11 and 13 o’clock, or on the automatic transmission, pedaling with both feet.
                      1. +4
                        11 June 2018 23: 20
                        Borrow yourself a reputable time machine and try personally GIVING ON A CAP to the gunner! And then write your "feelings"!
                        There will never be such photos with me! And with YOU SAME ...
                        Therefore, your nit-picking is not worth a "eaten egg"!
      2. +6
        11 June 2018 21: 25
        M-30 howitzers are simply stupidly not suitable for fighting tanks.

        Yeah. That is why in 1943 the BP-460A cumulative projectile was adopted for them ...
        1. 0
          11 June 2018 21: 34
          In fact, the M-30s had disgusting accuracy. This is a howitzer, not a gun:
          In April 1943, tests were carried out by shelling from a 122 mm M-30 howitzer with ballistics close to the U-11 of the captured Tiger hull with a cumulative shell. And then the tank builders were waiting for the first disappointment. Of the 15 shots fired from a distance of 400-600 meters, not a single direct hit was recorded even on a fixed target
          http://flib.flibusta.is/b/146751/read
      3. +2
        11 June 2018 23: 04

        In this photo, the gunner stands as YOU WISH ...
        This is one of a series of photographs taken during and after the battle of the Soviet howitzer division with German tanks. There are recollections of the photojournalist, author of the photo, he told the following: the division made a march to the front line and was unexpectedly attacked by German tanks. The battalion’s batteries, right in the open field, turned around and repelled the attack, knocking out several enemy vehicles. Our, unfortunately, also suffered losses ...
        1. 0
          11 June 2018 23: 16
          Yeah, and the gun commander is standing in the open field at full height, and not hiding behind a shield. And why then came up with this shield, one asks? Overweight only!
          I say: staged photo!
      4. +3
        12 June 2018 07: 28
        This is a famous moment. The battery was on the march. I had to turn around and fend off the tanks. A lot of photos were taken. For me - all the masterpieces of military documentary. Nothing was invented there. There is a photo of an elderly artilleryman after that battle documenting a goby. You’ll never shoot like that.
        Yes, howitzers had to be beaten off from tanks on direct fire.
    2. +2
      11 June 2018 22: 58
      I read somewhere that when shooting at the shooting range at the captured “Tiger” from the Su-122 they didn’t achieve ANY SURVEY during SIX shots by cumulative shells!
      1. 0
        11 June 2018 23: 32
        If there were no hits, then this is the problem of the crew of self-propelled guns, and not the "Dryers".
        1. +2
          11 June 2018 23: 42
          Everything is possible...
          July 8, 1943 during the Battle of Kursk, self-propelled gun SU-122 under the command of Lieutenant R.V. Trainikova from the 1450th self-propelled artillery regiment was ambushed by two German tanks from an ambush. July 10, 1943 the crew of self-propelled guns SU-122 under the command of Lieutenant A.B. Leshchinsky, also from an ambush, knocked out three enemy tanks. July 14, 1943 the commander of the battery of self-propelled guns SU-122 Senior Lieutenant S.S. Mironov from the same 1450th self-propelled artillery regiment knocked out three German tanks.

          Nikolai Konstantinovich Shishkin, the commander of the battery of heavy self-propelled guns SU-152, shared his battles on Belarusian soil in his memoirs.
          “In June, we were transferred to Belarus. Our regiment operated as part of the 3rd Guards Kotelnikovsky Corps. My battery almost always operated with the 19th Guards Tank Brigade of Colonel Pokhodzeev. Corps commander General Vovchenko I.A. and brigade commander Zhora Pokhodzeev were skilled commanders, from whom I learned a lot. It was the best brigade of the corps, and the commander himself was an eagle. Demanding, laconic. You come to his meeting to receive instructions before the battle. He asks: “So, artilleryman, do you know the task?” “I know.” - Understood how to act? - Got it. “Free.”
          I remember one fight. Three tanks of the head patrol, which came out of the forest into the clearing and climbed the hill, were destroyed by the Tiger, which stood openly on the other side of the clearing. It was impossible to get around this clearing, and the brigade commander ordered: “Are you“ St. John's wort ”? So destroy this tank. " My self-propelled gun advanced forward, went to the foot of the hill and slowly climbed it. I leaned out of my hatch to the waist. At some point, I saw a German tank resting its stern on the trunk of a huge tree. The tiger fired. A swirl of air from a disc whistling over my head nearly knocked me out of the hatch. While I was thinking what to do, he still released one or two blanks, but since only a fragment of the cabin was sticking out over the hill, and the trajectory of the cannon shell was flat, he didn’t hit. What to do? Crawl out - perish in vain. And then I decided to take advantage of the capabilities of my 152 mm howitzer gun, which had a hinged projectile flight path. I noticed a bush on this hill. Looking through the bore, I got from the driver the position of self-propelled guns so that the bush was aligned with the crown of the tree, under which stood a German tank. After that, using the sight, he lowered the gun so that the projectile passed above the ground itself. There are a million calculations, but I tell you longer than I did all this. I sat behind the gunner, I saw a bush in the sight. Shot! I protrude from the hatch - the Tiger tower lies next to it, as if it had fallen under the edge! Then they wrote in a brigade newspaper: “Shishkin shoots like Schweik - from around the corner.”
    3. 0
      13 June 2018 06: 24
      Perfect confirmation of how to use howitzers for other purposes. In war as in war ... All that the commander has in his bosom is in battle. If it comes to ... And the tank when hit by such a projectile kirdyk ....
  8. +5
    11 June 2018 12: 16
    "Ural Machine-Building Plant (" Uralmash ")"
    UMP was never Uralmash and never designed or produced any artillery systems.
    Uralmash (UZTM) is the Ural Heavy Engineering Plant. It was at UZTM that, under the leadership of designer Sidorenko, a former officer of the tsarist army, the project of the U-1937 gun was created at the end of 1 (the “U” index meant Uralmashzavod). The first pancake, as it should be, was issued by the high committee: the Red Army artillery department recognized the project as not meeting the tactical and technical requirements (TTT) and by the end of February 1938 a new project appeared - the U-2 howitzers, which the Art Administration approved and made an order for an experimental batch. This is already a great success for the young team of designers. But Sidorenko goes further: on his own initiative he creates a duplex - an artillery system in which two guns of different calibers are superimposed on one carriage. In this case, a 2 mm caliber barrel was also superimposed on the U-95 carriage. This gun received the factory index U-4. This was a completely new word in Russian artillery, because 95 mm caliber has never been used in the Russian army before. According to modern experts, the duplex that Sidorenko proposed could become the best artillery system in the world during World War II. The unification of the divisional gun and howitzer could significantly reduce the cost of artillery production, facilitate the provision of spare parts and training of personnel. But Sidorenko’s proposal was not accepted: the military was carried away by a new idea - to rearm the divisional artillery based on a 107 mm caliber. As you know, this idea did not materialize. But the U-4 gun did not reach the factory tests, the project remained on paper. The U-2 howitzer was not put into service either: field tests showed that the ballistics of the 122-mm M-30 howitzer, created by the young designer F.F. Petrov at Motovilikha at plant No. 172 named after V.M.Molotova, better, and the advantage of the U-2 in weight was recognized as an insignificant factor. As a result, Uralmashzavod began to produce the M-30, a magnificent gun, but created by itself, and not in duplex.
    Source: Sergey Ageev. On the 120th birthday of V.N. Sidorenko. He was a native of old Russia / The Art of Building Machines, No. 20 (13156), May 21–27, 2004
    The authors have an amazing ability to get confused where there seems to be no way to do it.
  9. +1
    11 June 2018 21: 19
    badens1111,
    I hope you do not study the history of the Second World War on artistic movies and books like Gulag Archipelago, Burnt by the Sun, Penalty Battalion and other highs?
    1. +2
      12 June 2018 07: 35
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      other highs?

      Yours?
  10. +5
    11 June 2018 21: 31
    The photo signed "F-25 howitzer (with high probability)" shows the M-30 howitzer in tests, a famous photo. In particular, it was published as an illustration for the article "122 mm M-30 howitzer in historical retrospective", the journal "Technique and Armament. Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow", No. 8, 2013
    Howitzer F-25 in tests here:
  11. +1
    13 June 2018 13: 02
    Another inaccuracy in the article:
    The F-25 howitzer, which was smaller than its competitors, was provided by a machine gun and a carriage from a 76-mm gun.

    F-25 machine gun and carriages from a 95-mm experimental F-28 division gun. Well, or the F-28 from the F-25. Actually, also duplex, similar to U-2 / U-4.
    Actually, here is the F-28:
  12. 0
    13 June 2018 21: 45
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    Oh my God!!! T-34-85 is the same T-34 tank, adopted in 1940, only with a new turret and a 85 mm caliber gun!

    And here is not the same. The T-34-85 was designed on the basis of the T-34 serial tank of the 1942 model, which had significant differences from the T-34 of the 1940 model. In addition to the new turret with a new gun, the hull was modified - the standard turret of the turret was increased from 1420 mm to 1600 mm . Well, a bunch of small differences, depending on the time of production and the manufacturer.
    1. 0
      13 July 2018 21: 48
      He served as a gun commander in the artillery division. It was a good howitzer. Removed from service in 1999.
    2. 0
      13 July 2018 21: 50
      He served as the gun commander in the M-30 artillery division. It was a good howitzer. Removed from service in 1999. On the bolts of several guns were inscriptions in German. We, conscripts, were told that they were captured.
  13. 0
    31 January 2020 11: 05
    By chance, this article fell into Google, but here it is that I could not keep silent ..
    Howitzer F-25 (with high probability)

    0% probability
    122 mm F-25 howitzer developed by Plant No. 92 ... ... military tests of the M-30 howitzer, more powerful than the F-25

    F-25 is more powerful, and the rest of the TTT is better. But the Grabins were not the first to start designing a new cannon when competitors had already tested their cannon, but then still lost.
    The howitzer has passed the test and there is nothing more to spend on the people's money for the development of useless tools.

    They themselves wrote that on an initiative basis. With their factory money they developed. And an unneeded gun would be very useful in the Second World War, because the 92 plant would have made them many times more than the more expensive and less technological M-30 imposed on it.
    The continuation of further work in this direction was fraught for the designers with "moving to some sharashka" with the help of the NKVD.

    Grabin, whose surname the author never even mentioned in the article, and at the 92 plant in Yelyan, not a single person was repressed. And this is in the design bureau, which designed, and the plant began the gross output of the gun, the development of which no one ordered, no one tested, no one took into service, but it already defended Moscow 41g. Winners are not judged!
    The F-25 howitzer, which was smaller than its competitors, was provided by a machine gun and a carriage from a 76-mm gun.

    No. There is a single carriage with F-28. This is duplex.
    The gun was more mobile, but had a smaller resource due to a more "flimsy" carriage.

    Purely the author’s speculation, because this is not confirmed by any tests. Lighter weight is mainly associated with the widespread use of shaped pouring instead of riveting in the design of the gun. The durability of such carriages was proved by 100 thousand guns of the plant 92 on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, and then around the world.
    Naturally, the 122 mm projectile gave a completely different recoil momentum than the 76 mm. The muzzle brake, apparently, at that time did not provide the proper impulse reduction.

    Since the carriage is not from a 76mm gun, there is no point in commenting. Muzzle reduced return by 30%. So it provided.
    F-25 preferred the more durable and with a large resource M-30.

    The resource is tested and tested, which was not the case with the F-25.
    The second disadvantage for the F-25 could just be its lower weight in combination with the already mentioned muzzle brake. The lighter the gun, the greater its chances of using it to directly support its forces with fire ... Naturally, powder gases rejected by the muzzle brake, raising dust, sand, particles of soil or snow, will more easily give out the F-25 position compared to the M-30 .

    Nobody has written down the mobility of the gun in minuses. Therefore, to change position and open fire, say on tanks that have broken through the position, F-25 crews will be able to more quickly. The howitzers are not firing from the front, there is no such strict requirement for the presence of a muzzle brake as there are no guns. So all these claims to the muzzle brake are simply far-fetched.