ASH-12 assault foreign market

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Due to the fact that the domestic ASH-12 automaton will be offered on the foreign market, it will not be superfluous to look at it again weapon, to evaluate its positive and negative aspects, as well as to clarify certain points that relate to ammunition.

The prospects and specific markets for weapons are not clear due to the not-so-warm relations between the countries, but Rostec has already announced its participation in the Defexpo India-2018 exhibition. Of course, there is no such thing as to show the goods, but they do not start selling it, therefore you can draw certain conclusions.



ASH-12 assault foreign market


Writing another article about this weapon, which will again be given all the same information as in previous materials, does not make sense, however, some points that were not previously explained or were not described accurately enough, should be considered, but you need to start in the first place, with ammunition.

Cartridges for ASH-12

Very often, if not in 90% cases, photos of 12х12,7 cartridges are added to the ASH-55 machine guns description, yes, indeed, the weapon is powered by these ammunition, with this metric designation, only ammunition for ASH-12 is shown in the photos and cartridges for rifle "Exhaust", which have the same metric designation. Such confusion leads to the fact that one can often find incorrect data on cartridges and, as a result, a wrong idea about the capabilities of the weapon.



If you pay attention to the image with ammunition, then only the first four from the top in the first column are directly related to ASH-12, but in the second column, from the second to the fourth, ammunition is already used in the VSSK Vykhlop. Despite the same metric designation and the same sleeve, it is obvious that ammunition is completely different and will have different parameters.

Strangely enough, but in open sources there are no data either on the weight of the bullets or on their initial speeds, there is only a brief description of the 4 types of ammunition.

The design of the machine ASH-12

Despite the fact that there are more than enough data on the weapon itself, inaccuracies are also found here. Apparently someone, one of the first to write an article about this weapon, called the AL-12 an "increased" Thunderstorm, from which the comparison went, which is absolutely incorrect. Despite the fact that both machines have a bullpup layout, they are completely different in their design and principles of automation.



Now the majority of self-loading rifles and machine guns use part of the powder gases discharged from the barrel to reload. Automation, built on this principle, in various versions, has already become a “classic” for certain categories of weapons, from which the ASH-12 machine gun seems not the most common in terms of design. For reloading, this weapon does not use some of the powder gases, recharging is carried out by the recoil energy in the short course of the barrel, but the barrel bore is locked when the bolt is turned.



The main reason for the use of such a scheme of automatic weapons, is not the most pleasant impact when shooting, in particular when firing "queue". With such an automation system, the recoil impulse becomes stretched in time, which is positively perceived by the shooter, which means that the weapon becomes not only more comfortable to use, but also more stable when firing. In addition, with proper workmanship, weapons of similar design are easier to maintain. The disadvantage is the relatively low accuracy of firing, which in this case is not particularly important in view of the short distances of use.

Competitors ASH-12

Once the weapon enters the market, it would be nice to look at those samples that can compete with the domestic machine. Unfortunately, it is not possible to give an accurate assessment of the competitiveness of the ASH-12 without specific figures for its ammunition; for the same reason, it is not easy to pick up competitors to the domestic assault rifle.



If you take for comparison cartridges with heavy bullets, designed primarily to ensure that even an elephant crouches when hit, the .50 Beowulf cartridge comes to mind. In addition to the heavy bullet caliber 12,7 millimeters in this munition is another big plus, namely the design of the liner. Despite the large caliber, the bottom is smaller than the diameter of the sleeve itself and corresponds to the dimensions of the cartridge 7,62х39. Thus, many bolt rifles can use this ammunition after replacing the barrel, if the receiver box allows. Semi-automatic weapons are unlikely to be able to safely move from one cartridge to another. The following parameters are typical for the cartridge variant with a bullet mass in 19 grams. With a barrel length of 610 millimeters, the initial speed of the bullet is 570 meters per second, respectively, the kinetic energy of such a bullet will be equal to 3160 Joule. In total, with a semi-shell or expansive bullet, hitting with such kinetic energy at an unprotected target will require only one; it will not be necessary to shoot a second time.



Even more “interesting” ammunition is the .50 Alaskan cartridge, which is very close in metric designation to 12,7x55, namely 12,7x53. For a cartridge with a bullet mass of 34 grams, which the powder charge starts at a speed of 516 meters per second, corresponds to the kinetic energy of 4500 Joule.

In fact, this list can be continued for a very long time, since there are more than a dozen of such ammunition. Here you can add and cartridges from Winchester and Colt, but the absolute majority of these munitions have one thing in common, they are designed for hunting a large beast, which is felled with a single shot, although the range of such munitions is broad, but it does not have armor-piercing, but especially two-bullet cartridges.

Of course, there are variants of cartridges that are closer to military requirements. For example .50 Hushpuppy. This munition, by the way, is very close in its idea to the domestic SC-130, namely, by installing a bullet from 12,7х99 into another sleeve, our designers also did with the cartridge 12,7х108. It is indeed possible to draw parallels between these cartridges, but this will already concern the VSSK Vykhlop and its foreign analogues.

Will there be a demand for ASH-12?


First of all, you need to pay attention that such an automatic weapon is very specific. It is for this reason that direct analogues with it, at least, widely known, no. This uniqueness of the domestic automaton is explained by just a very narrow range of tasks in which it will be indispensable. This will have an impact on sales. Not good for sales will go and the fact that the weapon eats non-standard ammunition, which also have to be purchased.



To be objective, the ASH-12 is clearly not widespread, even if it is offered in combination with RS and VSSK Vykhlop at the lowest possible price. Most likely, the weapons will be of interest to countries in which there is an internal terrorist threat, and since counter-terrorist organizations are usually few, it means that they will need not tens of thousands of weapons, especially narrowly specialized weapons.
56 comments
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  1. +3
    April 20 2018 05: 46
    It is necessary to release a civilian version - for hunting and self-defense. We have lovers.
    1. +16
      April 20 2018 05: 54
      Already there, though the civil version of the exhaust - MC-588))
      1. +1
        April 20 2018 10: 12
        By the way, here http://podpricelom.com/ognestrelnoe-oruzhie/gladk
        ostvolnoe / mts-558.html # i-10, as ammunition for the MTs-588, they posted a photograph of machine-gun cartridges.
      2. +9
        April 20 2018 12: 27
        Machine for its performance characteristics is just fantastic! fellow On the one hand, it is specialized, and on the other hand, it is universal.
        First, about the specialization: a large-caliber cartridge 12,7 × 55 mm with a light aluminum core, providing a high stopping effect of the bullet, the person just knocks down and no longer rises. Just one bullet, which falls into absolutely any place in the body, is enough. And try to give a turn to the wooden door. If we shoot, let's say from Kalash, there will simply be holes, and if from this automatics - the door leaf at the moment will turn into chips! belay I also have to say that in urban combat decrease in the probability of third-party damage due to the rapid loss of its energy with increasing distance firing oh how topical! This machine solves this problem perfectly!
        Now about versatility. Suppose we need to work with a silencer - please use PS-12 cartridges with a heavy bullet and the speed of this bullet is done subsonic. good I don’t need to explain further ..
        Move on. We wanted to work a short distance against all types of armored vehicles and against lightly armored vehicles - there are also no problems, we put PS-12B cartridges (with an armor-piercing core) and crumble our barmalei to our health. You won’t hide from this bullet in bulletproof vest or armored personnel carrier. In a word, the FSB nickname got a good machine gun good
      3. 0
        10 June 2018 19: 11
        Quote: AlexMark
        Already there, though the civil version of the exhaust - MC-588))
        Is it special for bears?
        The thing is certainly not bad, but I just can’t imagine where to use it in everyday life, and given its future price (I think for 200 thousand), although I won’t be surprised that they will buy it for those.
    2. +5
      April 20 2018 05: 55
      Quote: martin-159
      It is necessary to release a civilian version - for hunting and self-defense

      Without a fly.
      Quote: martin-159
      We have lovers ...

      ... trunk in your own ...? Perverts wassat
      1. +2
        April 20 2018 07: 26
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        ... trunk in your own ...? Perverts

        And then Ostap suffered .... laughing
        PS
        Without a fly.
        There are plenty of collimators.
        1. +1
          April 20 2018 07: 28
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          And then Ostap suffered ..

          Osiahow are you so ... messy? belay
          1. +5
            April 20 2018 07: 29
            Pussycat - how many arrows can you translate already? Do not ruin your talent, go to Russian Railways! good
            1. +1
              April 20 2018 07: 48
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Kisa

              Osia?
              You talked with me about some Ostap. Because of the two of us Osia - yet you, I thought that you (again) decided to complain about life. And here are some arrows?
              I understand (c) request
              PS:
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Full collimators

              Not recommended, big and ... uncomfortable. Better then leave the fly laughing
              1. +10
                April 20 2018 07: 52
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                I understand (c)

                The fact that you have an understanding of the problem, already half the visitors to the site know! good
                P.S. Notice - the troll has an orange jacket! wink
                1. +1
                  April 20 2018 07: 56
                  In-in.
                  Come on, treat your trolling ... but whatever you want, but I went to work.
                  There is such a transport company, RedExpress is called ... and so it has been playing for a week in the "3rd Street of Builders": what needs to be taken to St. Petersburg is taken to Moscow, and vice versa.
                  I’ll explain to her how much ruberoid is in Odessa ... and you will be healed for now.
                  PS: just do not drink vodka - it will not help. And in general - it’s harmful stop
                  1. +1
                    April 20 2018 12: 45
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    while you heal.
                    PS: just do not drink vodka - it will not help
                    Okay, I'll take a beer! laughing
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    And in general - it’s harmful

                    Everything is harmful, if without measure. wink
                    PS
                    Not recommended, big and ... uncomfortable. Better then leave the fly laughing
                    Have you ever shot with a collimator? Try it, much more convenient than the bar. Though from a rifled, even from a smooth-bore. hi
        2. +1
          April 20 2018 22: 18
          Distances are small and usually I am against the “Kalikov” but at medium distances, and for specialists with a good supply, an awesome “Vesch”.
    3. 0
      April 20 2018 09: 06
      But just how much will it cost?
    4. 0
      April 20 2018 12: 07
      About RSh-12 is silent again
    5. +1
      April 25 2018 09: 55
      Quote: martin-159
      Need to release a civilian version - for hunting

      To whom it is, but for me hunting is also aesthetics. In my understanding, a hunting rifle should have a classic look (layout), have wooden elements (butt and fore-end), and not have a body kit.
      I myself hunt with a not quite classic look (in my understanding) weapons, I have Saiga-12 in a tree, I want to take a break, such as IZH-27E1S (now MR-27E1S). Still, hunting is not fighting and weapons should be appropriate ...
      1. +2
        3 May 2018 20: 57
        This is prejudice)) Saiga-12 is a very effective hunting gun
  2. +3
    April 20 2018 05: 51
    The machine with 12.7mm cartridges is the same in Stalker you can go for a bloodsucker wink but seriously, shooting through the wall at the enemy or breaking through the armor can come in handy, the only thing that bothers is what kind of recoil does this gun have? The SVD could not do the automatic mode precisely because of the enormous recoil.
    1. +7
      April 20 2018 05: 58
      So the controller with a single shot can lay laughing
      It is because of the impact and refused him to the removal of powder gases. And 12,7x55 is not 12,7x108, so in terms of return, everything should be at least acceptable.
      1. +3
        April 20 2018 06: 12
        It's nice to see a tramp, after all, they walked through some wasteland)
        1. +3
          April 20 2018 09: 39
          By the way, a weapon for introducing into fashion games is promising. And it looks solid and the parameters are impressive. In Stalker, there are a couple of places where with such a monster it would be possible to clear up.
          And the advertisement again. Popularization among the masses to increase demand.
          1. 0
            April 20 2018 22: 57
            Here in fashion just! But in practice, why is it better than 9A91? Believe me, from it the result will be no worse!
    2. +1
      3 May 2018 20: 59
      About the "effective line" of a bullet of several tens of grams is not even funny
      Specialized single-shot weapon with a glushak on targets in the bronics
  3. +8
    April 20 2018 06: 15
    For so many years to read and see the same photos. Here's a normal video how this machine gun shoots. What's the catch?
    1. +5
      April 20 2018 06: 25
      And I don’t like him in the photo wink
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. 0
    April 20 2018 06: 52
    The idea is interesting, but why not implement it under a reinforced pistol cartridge. For the sake of interest. The unit will lose weight, become more compact, more accurate. Anti-terrorist structures will receive powerful software for working in urban conditions.
    1. -1
      April 20 2018 07: 15
      There is already a thunderstorm under 9mm (both Wedge and Cypress and Cedar), but under a powerful 12.7mm with a blunt (which means well stopping) bullet there wasn’t yet
      1. avt
        +3
        April 20 2018 12: 02
        Quote: nikoliski
        Thunderstorm is already under 9mm (and Wedge and Cypress and Cedar)

        wassat With what a fright in a row, albeit with brackets, lined up ??? Only because
        Quote: nikoliski
        under 9mm (
        ??? A reluctance to see the difference?
      2. +1
        April 20 2018 22: 21
        Yes, people do not understand what exactly a blunt bullet with such an energy of impact is like a "runner-up sledgehammer."
      3. 0
        April 21 2018 20: 55
        Quote: nikoliski
        Thunderstorm is already under 9mm

        Long gone. And whoever held it in their hands doesn’t speak very well about reliability.
  5. +3
    April 20 2018 07: 30
    In general, this machine comes out interesting.
    We did it for a long time, pictures on an Internet walk.
    They write that they have been adopted by the TsSN. But at the same time, we did not see a single photo of the commandos with this machine, nor a video of firing from it. One gets the feeling that in reality the machine didn’t get accustomed to the word at all (unlike the exhaust), and now they want to push it abroad.
    If anyone is in the subject, please tell me, am I right or not?
    1. +6
      April 20 2018 07: 39
      TsSN is Alpha, and what does Alpha use and where, I think it’s not worth showing (the fucking Yeltsin years finally passed, where perhaps the command post on the nuclear submarines was not shown (and maybe I just didn’t see it), the less the enemy knows the better, personally for me the fact that we have a hypersonic dagger was a revelation (it means all the same the secret began to work again, and not like in the 90s, see what it is, take off for free)
      1. +6
        April 20 2018 08: 03
        What Alpha uses is very much shown, for example, the Punisher car (which once again went to the remake) was shown in the report on the operation of the SPC before this vehicle was declassified.
        1. 0
          April 28 2018 18: 09
          Quote: rait
          What Alpha uses is even shown, for example, the Punisher car

          And also the armored car "Viking"
    2. 0
      April 20 2018 09: 01
      Maybe they just don’t have money to buy such toys fellow
  6. +1
    April 20 2018 09: 00
    Better guns allowed winked There, the Chinese are already driving 12.7 caliber rifles with 200 rounds of ammunition in addition to the M4 MP5 clones, and even read good-looking pistols somewhere. belay And our civilian arms market is generally undeveloped wink Surprisingly and insulting for our Market crying And what’s interesting, they already have a queue to line up, but you could replenish our budget from the proceeds from the sales of our products, from which you can buy everything you need for our army
    1. 0
      April 20 2018 22: 25
      If I knew my brother how tteha in the safe "warms the soul." There are other toys that are both more expensive and sportier ... But a legitimate TT is a "weight"!
  7. +3
    April 20 2018 09: 01
    The device is certainly interesting, but absolutely unpromising. It’s okay to enter it somewhere ... only the civilian market remains, for lovers of hunting for large grains.
    1. 0
      April 20 2018 09: 14
      Tickle your nerves like that winked
  8. 0
    April 20 2018 09: 40
    Automatic machine under the cartridge from the "Berdank" ... A kind of cute, pretty, retro wink
    1. +2
      April 20 2018 11: 18
      Quote: tchoni
      Automatic machine under the cartridge from the "Berdank" ...

      Where is this? belay
      1. +1
        April 20 2018 13: 45
        And he was, stood at the end of the century before last in the Russian imperial army, 4,2 linear cartridge "Berdan", not to be confused with a similar caliber to Smith and Wesson. By ideology, this patro, of everything that was in service with us, is closest to what the ASh-12 uses. The same heavy bullet, with a low initial speed. The most curious thing is that the “Berdanka” under this cartridge was popular with hunters. Evil tongues, however, argue that the main reason for this is the cheapness of the massively removed from the armament and sold rifle (partially remade into a smoothbore). But the father of my uncle, who had the pleasure of using such a thing in his youth, claimed that the rifle was indeed accurate.
        1. +3
          April 20 2018 14: 55
          Quote: tchoni
          stood at the end of the century before last in the Russian imperial army, 4,2 linear cartridge "Berdan", not to be confused with a similar caliber to Smith and Wesson. By ideology, this patro, of everything that was in service with us, is closest to what the AS-12 uses

          ASh-12.> Caliber: 12,7 mm ............ Berdan cartridge> 4,2 lines> 10,67 mm
          12,7-mm and 10,67-mm ......... do you think this is close? M-d-ah! Then the 14,5-mm KPV machine gun did not have to be created .... why? when there is already an 12,7-mm DShK machine gun ... the calibers are close!
          And why remember the "Berdan cartridge" with black powder. When can I take the "close" cartridge: .416 Rigby?
          1. +1
            April 20 2018 16: 05
            Look at the energy and general philosophy of bullets. At 4,2 lines at 58 and at 12,7 at 55 it is very close. But 12,7 x 108 and 14,5 x 114 energy is almost two times different. Like the volume of the sleeve. The last one is, in fact, a sleeve of a 20 mm gun, compressed under 14,5 mm. So comparing ammunition based only on caliber is, to put it mildly, incorrect.
            And remembering the Berdan cartridge was worthwhile to illustrate the "step back" in the shooting business.
            1. +4
              April 21 2018 05: 59
              There was such a period in the history of small arms when ammunition of a relatively small caliber, but with high energy was created.: P35 (7,92 x 107 mm); Patrone 318 (7,92 x 94 mm); ZVV (7,92 x 145 mm); Soviet 7,62 x 122 mm / 7,62 x 155 mm ....
              And modern: 1) .408Chey Tac (10,3 x 77 mm); 2) .416Barret (10,6 x 83 mm)
              And, in the end, it turns out that the popularity of the cartridge does not always depend on energy and caliber ...
  9. +1
    April 20 2018 10: 12
    "Despite the same metric designation and the same sleeve, it is obvious that the ammunition is completely different and will have different parameters from each other."
    This alone should be alarming. Ammunition with one designation, but different parameters in the army should not be!
    1. +2
      April 20 2018 11: 21
      Quote: alex-cn
      Ammunition with one designation, but different parameters in the army should not be!

      Add a letter to the designation ... and there will be different designations!
  10. +4
    April 20 2018 11: 07
    "Oddly enough, in open sources there is no data on either the weight of the bullets or their initial speeds, there is only a brief description of the 4 types of ammunition."

    Cartridges 12,7 × 55 mm for ASh-12. From left to right - with a light bullet, two-bullet, with a heavy bullet, with an armor-piercing bullet.
    “The ShAK-12 assault rifle complex is built around specially designed large-caliber automatic rifle cartridges of 12.7mm caliber, using a 55mm long cylindrical sleeveless barrel from the SC-130 subsonic sniper cartridges for the VSSK“ Exhaust ”rifle, also developed at TsKIB. The range of cartridges includes the following types equipment: PS-12B with an armor-piercing bullet weighing 18 g; PS-12 with a heavy subsonic bullet weighing 33 g; PD-12 - two-bullet, the mass of each bullet is 17 grams; PS-12A with a light bullet with an aluminum core, the mass of the bullet is 7 grams. The effective firing range with a two-bullet cartridge is about 100 meters, armor-piercing - up to 300 meters, with a heavy or light bullet - about 200 meters. "
    1. +2
      April 20 2018 14: 02
      Thank you for such information. hi
  11. +2
    April 20 2018 11: 42
    And what to guess: shove it up? In special forces, of course ... Special Forces should not do just one "Kalash"! Yesterday-AN-94 ... today-ASH-12 ... tomorrow- PP Cheetah ... By the way, why ASH-12? And from which side-SHAK-12? Is it the same thing, or are there two differences? (I heard something about the 2 "12 caliber" machine.) And the cartridges (12,7 x 55 mm) and (12,7 x 53 mm) must be confused carefully ... like (12,7 x 108 mm) and (12,7 x 99 mm) ... with the same powder mount, power may vary.
    1. +7
      April 20 2018 12: 07
      "The ASH-12 assault rifle, which is the central element of the ShAK-12 assault rifle complex, was developed at TsKIB SOO (a division of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau - KBP) by order of the FSB of Russia. The assault rifle was adopted by the FSB special forces in 2011 as part of the complex, which also includes several types of cartridges 12.7x55mm, two types of silencers ("tactical" for firing with supersonic bullets and normal for low-noise firing with subsonic heavy bullets), as well as shops and other necessary accessories. "
      About cartridges - see above. Guessing and inventing nothing.
  12. 0
    April 20 2018 21: 57
    The main thing to do do not stop
  13. 0
    April 23 2018 15: 02
    To be objective, the ASH-12 is clearly not going to be widely used, even if it is offered in combination with the RC and VSSK “Exhaust” at the lowest possible price.
    I wonder what kind of "widespread" weapons can be created for special units? Strange statements.
    1. +2
      April 23 2018 16: 40
      What is written in the article.
      1. 0
        10 June 2018 19: 15
        I duck that why mention something that is already clear.

        Mark, make a reservation right away - I don’t know who the author is (well, I didn’t read the signature, I didn’t read smile ) articles and this is not a collision but a surprise.