Military Review

CPV. The machine gun that changed the world

169



Of course, not about anything weapon can say so. There is a weapon that was created with such a large reserve for the future that every new generation of warriors found something of their own in it. Weapons, the potential of which has been revealed for many decades. In this case, significant changes in the design did not occur. Just the experience of combat use revealed new and new possibilities. We are entitled to call such weapons legendary.

It is about such weapons will be discussed in this article. On the legendary heavy machine gun S. V. Vladimirov - CPV. The machine gun, which for most readers is known in one of the most common options - KPVT. But we still call him correctly - CPV.

The idea of ​​automatic small-caliber small arms was not new when the first work in this direction began.

The initiators and legislators of large-caliber modes were European aviation gunsmiths. After World War I, itching to screw something larger in caliber and slaughter than a regular rifle machine gun into the plane.

And in the second half of the 30-s of the last century, full-scale work began on the creation of weapons on the one hand, large caliber, on the other - rapid-fire.

In the Soviet Union, no exception. And the work was carried out on the platform of the cartridge 12,7 x 108-mm. Thus, very long-running projects of DShK, UB machine guns were born.

In 1938, the first 14,5 x 114-mm cartridge pattern was developed for the Rukavishnikov anti-tank gun. The gun went bulky and unsuccessful and did not go into a series. What not to say about the cartridge. Here designers also began to look narrowly at it.

However, in preparation for a big war, the country could not afford to create such weapons. PTR, and even more machine guns of this caliber were not needed by the USSR.

But any theory is verified by practice. The beginning of World War II was the point that can be considered a rebirth, not only the PTR. According to Stalin’s personal instructions, work was urgently resumed. Worked on the PTR and the new cartridge.

16 July 1941, the 14,5 mm cartridge with an armor-piercing incendiary bullet and a steel core B-32 was adopted. 15 August adopted another cartridge - BS-41, with an armor-piercing incendiary bullet with a hard metal-ceramic core. And on August 29 the anti-tank guns of V.А. Degtyarev and Simonov.

The effectiveness of this weapon is the topic of other articles. But the fact that such guns can be used to fight aircraft is important. In the 1941-42 years there were several cases of the destruction of aircraft from the PTR. However, getting into a fast-moving target with one cartridge was difficult. But if you hit ...

Moreover, when conducting an offensive battle, our fighters often encountered well-equipped German pillboxes and bunkers. It was not easy to hit such a structure from the first shot. Already in the middle of 1942, the Supreme Command headquarters set the task of creating an 14,5-mm machine gun for infantry. However, solutions to this problem could not be found.

The fact is that the energy of a machine gun shot is greater than that of an automatic cannon. But, according to the performance characteristics such machine guns should be comparable to guns of small calibers. Therefore, the task was precisely in the choice of the concept of such weapons.

CPV. The machine gun that changed the world


Semyon Vladimirovich Vladimirov, designer of ShVAK and B-20 aircraft cannons, adhered to just such a line. And in November 1943 presented the machine gun for factory testing. Moreover, it was tested anti-aircraft machine gun. Requirements for such weapons were higher.

The tests of the machine gun were successful and, after agreement with the Commissariat of Defense, the plant received an order for the production of machine guns (KPV-44) and an anti-aircraft gun. For military tests required 50 machine guns and one charger. The trials began after the end of the war, in May 1945.

In 1946, the machine gun was adopted in two versions. PKP (infantry machine gun) and anti-aircraft KPV. For 6 years, the troops arrived only in the version of anti-aircraft installations to 8 thousands of such machine guns.



Unfortunately, in stories the creation of this weapon masterpiece is an element of mysticism. Remember, quite often used cliche that the creation often takes the soul, and even the life of the creator? It happened with Semen Vladimirovich Vladimirov. He was killed 12 July 1956, namely when disassembling the spring-loaded parts of the machine gun of its own design. He was buried in the city of Kovrov, Vladimir region.

That machine gun, which we know, KPVT, began to be developed during the life of the designer. From 1952 year. The power of the weapon and its high survival rate in various conditions dictated the need to arm them with armored vehicles.



It suffices to give only one characteristic - the "working" lethal range of a bullet. 7-8 kilometers. Of course, aimed shooting at such distances cannot be conducted. But, you see, power is amazing. Frontal armor of all armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles of the likely enemy KPVT punched with the ease of a sewing machine. By the way, still in the technical assignments for the design of armored vehicles of the West they are guided by CPT.

Add to this the ability to quickly replace the barrel, which is removed along with the casing.

Add smooth automation by moving the barrel.

Add automatic fuses that do not allow a shot to be made when the barrel is not properly attached.

Add the ability to switch the feed direction of the tape.

Add an automatic tape feed lock if the cartridge from the link has not been removed.

There are many advantages that even today look impressive. And all this is done "in a Soviet way." No need for precise clearance adjustment. The machine gun will work in different conditions equally.

Of course, there were also disadvantages.

The complex process of assembly and disassembly (and dangerous, as shown by the fate of the designer).

The recharge is quite long - 10-12 seconds.

Small tape capacity.

When overheating begins to stick the cartridges, everything gets a stake, and the tape can not be pulled out without help from above.

You can say fastidious machine gun, but you can’t do it any other way. Too powerful cartridge.

But, probably, the biggest advantage of the CPV is that initially it was nevertheless an anti-aircraft machine gun. So, the designer initially laid the possibility of using the cartridge with more power than were available at that time products. Under this machine gun you can now develop ammunition.

It remains to list what the soldiers remember for more than 70-year history of the legend.

Single (ZPU-1) and twin (ZPU-2 and ZU-2) installations for anti-aircraft gunners. Particularly known is ZU-2. Adopted in 1955 year. Towed with an automatic sight and the ability to work immediately two gunners.



PGI-1. Mountain modification of the machine gun. Although it was developed in 1954, it was adopted for service only in 1968. tested in battle though not at all in the mountains. It was delivered to Vietnam and successfully worked there against helicopters and American aircraft. It was also used in Afghanistan and Chechnya.



Zpu-xnumx. Also known as GAU 4-Y-56. Adopted in 562 year. It was used in regiments and divisions as its own means of defense. But, alas, the increase in speeds and tactics of ground attack by aircraft, sharply lowered the survivability of calculations.



14,5-mm MTPU. Marine thumb machine-gun installation. Designed to combat surface, coastal and air lightly armored targets. It is installed on combat boats and other sea and river vessels. In 1999, MTPU was “hidden” in a tower.



Twin machine gun installations (from 2М-5 to 2М-7). 2-5 (1952 year) were armed with torpedo boats of the project 123bis and 184. Deck turret installation with a horizontal arrangement of trunks. 2М-6 or 2М-6Т (1952 year) - a variant of the tower installation for artillery boats of the project 1204. The 2М-7 was intended for patrol boats of 1400 and 368П projects and minesweepers.

Life machine Seeds Vladimirov continues. In 1989, a new armor-piercing incendiary cartridge with an aluminum shirt and a hard-alloy core appeared. Already at the beginning of our century, cartridges with an upgraded MDZM bullet and a modernized BZT-M bullet (with remote tracer ignition for night firing) appeared.

However, the scope of application is becoming smaller. Today it is already outdated BTR-70 and BTR-80, small patrol boats. And in the armies of the neighbors, large-caliber machine guns gradually give way to armor with high-speed aircraft guns.

And in the coming years, most likely, we will witness the end of the era of large-caliber machine guns on armored vehicles. And, perhaps, on boats.

Today, a large-caliber machine gun (for example, “The Rock”) is a common thing in infantry. It can already be transferred without disassembling, he "lost weight".

What will be the fate of the CPV, which sooner or later displace the 30-mm automatic gun? Question…
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  1. Vard
    Vard April 13 2018 06: 03
    +18
    There was a case in the army ... During the exercises, the mediator assigned us a victory ... Since the enemy was in the zone of destruction of this machine gun ...
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 April 13 2018 15: 44
      +14
      During the demonstration exercises on the armored personnel carrier, the KPVT began to work nearby, I really sat down. repeat
      1. domokl
        domokl April 13 2018 21: 19
        +8
        laughing Igor, you probably have leg pain then? When I was near, meters in 5, the brick wall of the half-brick fell completely fell and already said goodbye to everyone ... Probably, the machine gun turned out loud. Even for contused ...
  2. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 13 2018 06: 24
    +11
    And in the coming years, most likely, we will witness the end of the era of heavy machine guns on armored vehicles. And, perhaps, on boats. What will be the fate of the CPV, which will sooner or later displace the 30-mm automatic gun? Question
    Well ..... Well, the only hope left for the Chinese is! recourse If they continue to manufacture and offer for sale the 122-mm M-30 howitzers, the Malyutka ATGMs, then they will not part with the 14,5-mm machine gun .... however, they have their own 14,5-mm caliber ... Still "care" is available - cartridge (14,5 x 114) -mm save! Recently, a “rumor” has passed that a “sniper” is being developed in the caliber of 14,5-mm-good luck to the developers!
    1. urc
      urc April 13 2018 19: 47
      +4
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      And in the coming years, most likely, we will witness the end of the era of heavy machine guns on armored vehicles. And, perhaps, on boats. What will be the fate of the CPV, which will sooner or later displace the 30-mm automatic gun? Question
      Well ..... Well, the only hope left for the Chinese is! recourse If they continue to manufacture and offer for sale the 122-mm M-30 howitzers, the Malyutka ATGMs, then they will not part with the 14,5-mm machine gun .... however, they have their own 14,5-mm caliber ... Still "care" is available - cartridge (14,5 x 114) -mm save! Recently, a “rumor” has passed that a “sniper” is being developed in the caliber of 14,5-mm-good luck to the developers!

      In Azerbaijan there is a sniper of this caliber, Istiglal is called.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 14 2018 00: 42
        +4
        Quote: urz
        In Azerbaijan there is a sniper of this caliber, Istiglal is called.

        14,5-mm sniper is produced even in South Africa ... In Ukraine, something "stir up" .... There, by the way, the anti-tank guns of the times of V.O.V. “upgrade”: new muzzle brakes, optical sights (even thermal imaging sights) are set ... But this is all “purple.” The main thing is to keep in Russia the production of barrels and cartridges of the caliber 14,5-mm ...
  3. igordok
    igordok April 13 2018 07: 18
    +13
    In the Military History Museum of Artillery, Engineering and Signal Corps in St. Petersburg, the ZPU-4 stands aside, somehow aloof. At least that seemed to me. sad
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor April 13 2018 07: 35
    +21
    The article is of course interesting, at the Popular Mechanics level for schoolchildren. Some inaccuracies are immediately evident.
    The true ancestor of all large-caliber modern machine guns is the German TuF (Tank und Flugzeug), 13,2mm caliber, developed in 1918. based on MG-08 (Maxim) and adopted at the end of the PMV, as well as the PTR for this cartridge.
    As for aircraft weapons in WWI, the Germans already had 20mm guns and Gatlings. (Shirokorad)
    Rukavishnikov’s PTR is also not indisputable. In June 1941, it successfully passed all the tests and was recommended for arming. ZiS-2. Agree that even the relatively bulky and complex (based on an infantry rifle) ATG produced in sufficient quantities for 1941 German technology was slaughter. Well, and when it was "locked up", they developed optimal ATGM systems for military wars.
    Maybe someone else will add something?
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 13 2018 08: 15
      +19
      Quote: andrewkor
      Maybe someone else will add something?

      There is nothing to add. Here, rewrite everything. It is annoying to see materials of this quality in the section where works of a non-primary level are still encountered.

      However, your statements are also perplexing.
      Quote: andrewkor
      true progenitor of all large-caliber modern machine guns

      The work of this plan was carried out independently in several countries. The German ancestor of M2, of course, was not.
      Quote: andrewkor
      But it is known that the head of the GAU, Marshal Kulik, in a panic from the desa about the thick-armored German tanks, removed not only PTR but also ZiS-2 from service

      Your ideas about VET of those years are rather bizarre. I heard everything about ZiS-2, but the fact that it was destroyed by thick-armored tanks ...
      Quote: andrewkor
      You must admit that even a relatively bulky and complex (based on an infantry rifle) PTR produced in sufficient quantities for 1941 German technology was killer

      For some German technology, especially APCs, it was dangerous. However, the Red Army in those years did not understand the role of the APC, it seems.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ April 13 2018 08: 53
        +4
        [/ quote] Everyone heard about ZiS-2, but the fact that it was destroyed by thick-armored tanks ... [quote]
        Grabin has this in his memoirs “Weapons of Victory”
        1. BAI
          BAI April 13 2018 09: 11
          +8
          withdrew not only PTR, but also ZiS-2

          It seems to me that the main problem was:
          Particular problems were caused by the manufacture of a long barrel, accompanied by a large number of defects.

          Until the technology was debugged, everything slowed down.
          1. faiver
            faiver April 13 2018 12: 40
            +4
            quite right, until the Americans delivered us the machine equipment for the manufacture of long barrels, the number of defects went off scale and not only on the ZNUMX zis, here you can add 2-k and all its derivatives born from this anti-aircraft gun ...
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 13 2018 13: 58
        +4
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        The work of this plan was carried out independently in several countries. The German ancestor of M2, of course, was not.

        The product of John Mozesovich. EMNIP, the German trace was the same: the 12,7x99 cartridge for Papa Ma Deuce - M1921 - was made on the basis of the German 13,25 × 92SR from PTR.
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        For some German technology, especially the APC, it was dangerous. However, the Red Army in those years did not understand the role of the APC, it seems.

        I understood. But industry could not do it - there was no compact powerful engine. As a result, they planned to remake the old T-26s in the armored personnel carrier. But did not have time.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine April 13 2018 16: 07
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          there was no compact powerful engine

          Is it like a Universal Carrier engine?
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 13 2018 17: 05
            +2
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Is it like a Universal Carrier engine?

            And UC is not an armored personnel carrier. This is a self-propelled machine gun. smile
            And in the version of the infantry transporter, he carried, EMNIP, 4 people. While the normal armored personnel carrier was supposed to carry a rifle compartment with a BC. It’s not in vain that our Lend-Lease UCs were given to intelligence units.
            If everything was so simple, then we would have a GAZ-64 BTR. smile
            For a full-fledged armored personnel carrier, an engine for 110-130 horses was needed. Moreover, a compact, and not a monster type GAZ-203.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine April 13 2018 20: 48
              0
              Quote: Alexey RA
              For a full-fledged armored personnel carrier, an engine for 110-130 horses was needed

              That is, Sd.Kfz. 251 is not good enough for KA? Even with less powerful American Zisovsky engine? It is possible, of course.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Moreover, a compact, and not a monster type GAZ-203.

              What tenderness, it is necessary.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA April 17 2018 12: 39
                +1
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                That is, Sd.Kfz. 251 is not good enough for KA? Even with a less powerful American ZiSovsky engine?

                The maximum that the USSR has in the series is the GAZ "Dodge" with its 85 hp. This weakness was enough only for BA 4x4.
                To do an armored personnel carrier under a promising non-serial engine is to repeat the fate of the T-50 and KV-3.
                Under our directions we need to stuff something like White 160AX into the APC.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine April 20 2018 08: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Under our directions, we need to cram something like White 160AX into the APC.

                  Colleague, one more time. You are talking about an ideal APC. You can talk about this for a long time (for example, I would consider only and exclusively the 71st episode for everything), but this conversation is empty.
                  In real life in the Red Army were excellent, on paper, tanks, and the complete absence of armored personnel carriers. Though curves, at least some. That is, the most serious problems in the formation of panzergrenadier groups.
      3. Vladimir 5
        Vladimir 5 April 18 2018 18: 51
        +1
        Need to remember the story. The widespread use of large-caliber machine guns began in 1942, when the Germans began to widely use anti-aircraft large-caliber machine guns on the Eastern Front for ground targets, as infantry weapons .. These were the Erlikons and others. Then, at the meetings of I.V. Stalin, front-line representatives began to assert in chorus about the need for heavy machine guns, of which there were very few. And we have begun the expanded production of heavy machine guns for the front. For some reason, as a rule, weapons were often created in pursuit with us and as a response to the enemy’s available. It’s not time to join the ranks of the discoverers, so that they measure and catch up to us. To do this, it is necessary to redraw the economy, and to do this, first change the cabinet of ministers and the prime minister, who has been treading water for decades and ruining billions in Chubais and other scams ...
      4. avdkrd
        avdkrd 25 May 2018 16: 09
        +1
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Your ideas about VET of those years are rather bizarre. I heard everything about ZiS-2, but the fact that it was destroyed by thick-armored tanks ...

        ZiS-2 removed due redundancy, when it turned out that the information about the "thick" armor of the Germans turned out to be desa. Actually, such an excuse seems to me to be the same as far-fetched - to remove a successful gun due to the fact that its shot penetrates German tanks and supposedly does no harm .......
        1. Vladimir 5
          Vladimir 5 23 July 2018 17: 20
          -1
          The main Zis-2 was the difficulty of manufacturing high-quality trunks, too many were rejected (sometimes up to two-thirds), and therefore the number of products and costs .... Later we went to increase the caliber with an emphasis of 76,2 mm (later Zis-3 )
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 13 2018 08: 50
      +15
      Quote: andrewkor
      The true ancestor of all large-caliber modern machine guns German TuF (Tank und Flugzeug), caliber 13,2mm., Developed in 1918g. based on MG-08 (Maxim

      What is it like ? belay The Maxim machine gun is the progenitor of the DS-39 and SG-43, but Degtyarev and Goryunov have nothing to do with it? And MG-34 is the progenitor of PC? So you can agree to the point that citizen Vasily is the ancestor of the son of citizen Peter Grishenka on the grounds that Vasily was the first to conceive a child Kiryusha and “set an example” for Peter? The idea of ​​a large-caliber machine gun is the creation of the “collective mind” of the 1MV and fluttered in the heads of many ... the first ones grabbed the Kuhlmann ... If you look at the 1-th Soviet "krupnyak" DShK-12,7, then ... it started with 1932 of the year small-scale production of a machine gun under the designation DK (Degtyarev, Large-caliber). In general, the recreation center repeated the design of the DP-27 light machine gun and had power from detachable drum magazines on 30 cartridges mounted on a machine gun from above ...
      Vladimirov developed his CPV on the basis of his own B-20 air gun, which he created in collaboration with other designers (including Shpitalny). .
      By the way, Volkov and Yartsev (VYA-14,5 based on the VYA-14,5 air gun under the 23 x 14,5 mm cartridge for Blum’s anti-aircraft guns ...) were also developed and created during the years of the war for the development of the 147-mm machine gun. a number of countries machine guns caliber 2 ... mm (in Germany MG-15, in Czechoslovakia ZB ...; in the USA T151)
      1. d ^ Amir
        d ^ Amir April 13 2018 13: 06
        +3
        absolutely support !!!!

        This is by the way Vickers ... but we have our own analogue almost in 1900 .... at the Naval Museum in St. Petersburg on display ...
        1. Kibb
          Kibb April 13 2018 22: 57
          +1
          This is 1 pounder - a gun if anything, not a machine gun winkThe progenitor of the famous "Pom Pom." And of course there was an analogue: Maxim’s gun (it’s also the prototype of this Vickers) and Macklen’s gun (by the way, it has quite a modern gas vent) - both are American
        2. Kibb
          Kibb April 13 2018 23: 56
          +1
          THIS is not Vickers. One-pound Maxim-Nordenfeld MK2 sample of Vickers production year 03, on a Vickers anti-aircraft machine. "Vickers" two-pound (pom-pom) - this is a pretty deep modernization. The license expired and it was already possible to add your five kopecks to the design - it was very nice by the way, but the design and most importantly the ballistics were out of date for WWII, but for that the British had a serial automatic anti-aircraft gun in the 20-30s.
      2. Michael HORNET
        Michael HORNET 3 May 2018 21: 05
        +2
        A good machine gun under a good cartridge. But now, perhaps, with the growth of firepower, everything requires a rethinking of the niche
    3. CentDo
      CentDo April 13 2018 11: 31
      +2
      Vickers Model 1918 "Balloon Buster" (British designation). An aviation machine gun, 11 mm, was installed on allied fighters since 1918. Mostly used to deal with balloons.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 13 2018 13: 22
      +5
      Quote: andrewkor
      The RTR of Rukavishnikov’s anti-tank missile is also not indisputable. In June 1941, it successfully passed all the tests and was recommended for arming. ZiS-2.

      Horses mixed in a bunch, people ...
      Rukavishnikov’s PTR was first adopted in 1939. In 1940 it was discovered that the PTR armor penetration was insufficient to combat the enemy’s BTT: 30 mm armor plate did not penetrate the PTR tests. After that, it was decided to abandon the serial production of this PTR. In addition, a competitor arrived - a promising 23 mm Taubin infantry gun.
      So it’s not a matter of heavy armored vehicles at all - PTR didn’t break through onboard the armor of the usual "three rubles".
      The second time PTR Rukavishnikova was tested in June 1941 and in July it was recommended for adoption. But it didn’t go into series again, because the design required a lot of time for putting into series (last time for half a year they couldn’t do it), and in addition the PTR still required refinement (traditional problems with thermowell extraction and automation). Well, again a competitor arrived in time - PTRS.

      As for Kulik, he was just promoting ZiS-2 into production. And they were discontinued by a 45-mm anti-tank gun (again for insufficient armor penetration - only 40 mm from 150 m) and a 76-mm divisional gun - for a small projectile power. In addition, the available quantity of 45-mm and 76-mm guns in the army corresponded or even exceeded the regular needs of the Red Army (76-mm guns were already 133% of the total need).
      And most importantly - all the actions of Kulik were fully consistent with the information available to him.
      Once - test data: the shootings showed that the average BBS 45-mm anti-tank gun penetrates 30 mm from 200 m, and high-quality 40 mm armor from 150 m. That is, already existing German tanks penetrate this anti-tank gun from extremely short distances. Yes and yet - this is the only anti-tank battle in the Red Army, and there are no other specialized anti-tank missiles.
      Two - intelligence data: the Germans are dropping their tanks up to 50-60 mm.
      Three - another intelligence data: in 1941, it officially reported on the existence in the Wehrmacht of heavy tank divisions armed with TT, produced at factories in occupied France and Czechoslovakia. Moreover, heavy tanks were allegedly used during the invasion of France.
      What would be your actions at such an opening? wink
    5. sivuch
      sivuch April 13 2018 14: 32
      +1
      And about 13.2mm, are you not mistaken? Everything, of course, can be, but 13.2 is the French Hotchkiss caliber.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 13 2018 14: 51
        +4
        Quote: sivuch
        And about 13.2mm, are you not mistaken? Everything, of course, can be, but 13.2 is the French Hotchkiss caliber.

        This is 13,25 × 92SR, aka Mauser 13.2mm TuF - a German cartridge of the times of WWII for PTR.
    6. ventel
      ventel April 13 2018 21: 07
      +1
      You made a little mistake the 45mm gun was removed from production and launched the 57mm ZiS-2, though it wasn’t removed for a long time in the middle of the year 41, as the penetration was too excessive.
  5. Serg65
    Serg65 April 13 2018 07: 35
    +6
    Designed to combat surface, coastal and airborne lightly armored targets.

    The most common machine gun installation in the fleet was the installation of the 2M-7 mod. 1951 year.
    1. domokl
      domokl April 13 2018 08: 11
      +3
      Seven went on patrol boats ... She is the only "vertical line".
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 April 13 2018 09: 12
        +3
        Welcome Alexander hi
        Quote: domokl
        Seven went on patrol boats

        Seven went not only on patrol boats, but actively put on raid minesweeps of 1258 avenue, river minesweeps of 151 ave, sea minesweeps of 254 ave, raid boats "Yaroslavets", auxiliary vessels, in Feodosia it was lucky even to see a minesweeper of 361 ave. with a seven on the tank!
        drinks
  6. alex-cn
    alex-cn April 13 2018 07: 36
    +6
    I would not predict the quick death, if not CPV, then of the cartridge, there are still many niches for its use. The development of light, mobile armored vehicles and boats provides many opportunities for both installing it and shooting ...
  7. cobalt
    cobalt April 13 2018 07: 53
    +18
    The house where Vladimirov lived was preserved in Kovrov
  8. san4es
    san4es April 13 2018 08: 42
    +8
    Shooting from the Sea gun 14.5 mm machine gun mount. Anti-sabotage boat Rook ... soldier
    In 1999, at the MAKS-99 exhibition, the 14,5-mm marine MPTP machine-gun mounted on the base of the 14,5-mm KPVT machine gun was presented.

    The performance characteristics of the KPV machine gun
    - Adopted: 1949
    - Constructor: Vladimirov, Semyon Vladimirovich
    - Designed: 1944
    - Manufacturer: Degtyarev Plant (Carpet), Metallist Plant (Kuibyshev)
    KPV machine gun weight
    - 52,3 kg
    Dimensions machine gun KPV
    - Length, mm: 2000
    - barrel length, mm: 1346
    KPV machine gun cartridge
    - 14,5 × 114 mm
    Caliber KPV machine gun
    - 14,5 mm
    KPV machine gun rate of fire
    - 550-600 rounds / min
    KPV machine gun bullet speed
    - 976—1005 m / s
    Sighting range of the KPV machine gun
    - 2000 meters (1500 for air targets)
    Principles of operation: short barrel travel, butterfly valve
    Type of ammunition: tape for 40 rounds hi
  9. shuravi
    shuravi April 13 2018 08: 56
    +9
    Afghanistan, the vicinity of Fayzabad. PGI at a checkpoint.

    1. novel66
      novel66 April 13 2018 12: 50
      +1
      something is hard to see
      1. shuravi
        shuravi April 13 2018 13: 17
        +5
        Quote: novel xnumx
        something is hard to see


        And so?



        Sorry, the conditions for the shooting were not very good.
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 13 2018 14: 05
          +1
          here yes. and I thought - the miracles of disguise
  10. Kibb
    Kibb April 13 2018 09: 32
    +3
    Quote: andrewkor
    As for aircraft weapons in the WWI, the Germans already had 20mm guns and Gatlings.
    . I did not quite understand about the Gatlings - did they have the Germans in the PVV? Or did you want to say that you forgot about them in the article? Maybe all the same Gast?
    Quote: andrewkor
    GAU Marshal Kulik, in a panic from the desa about thick-armored German tanks, withdrew not only PTR, but also ZiS-2

    ZiS-2 - exactly the opposite, it was put into service expecting German heavy-armored tanks
  11. groks
    groks April 13 2018 10: 05
    +6
    If someone is interested in a thorough review of the technical part, then here is https://topwar.ru/33024-krupnokalibernyy-pulemet-
    vladimirova-istoriya-i-sovremennost.html
    Five years earlier and without strange frills.
    1. Tarikxnumx
      Tarikxnumx April 14 2018 08: 55
      +2
      It’s very sad that the cons were removed from the site. The graphomania of Staver and Skomorokhov crawled below the level of “master of demagogy” Kaptsov. Interestingly, they themselves wrote these opuses on their own initiative, or did they give them an order to attract traffic? And so a wonderful example of low-quality rewrite.
      1. groks
        groks April 14 2018 09: 05
        +2
        It is still difficult to understand the reason for their perversions. Staver merged politically before the election itself. At AS, his articles began to be published by notebook liberalophiles.
        But what they have to do with equipment .... Probably an excuse for the lack of new BTR-BMP. He pulled out of the KP truck and drag it. Until the mine covers the calculation.
        Again, this is in line with the transformation of a normal army into a CTO army.
        We will see. Typically, such characters are gradually revealed. So it was already with the St. Petersburg Jew-Satanist (s), who is now not allowed on decent sites.
  12. Snakebyte
    Snakebyte April 13 2018 10: 42
    +2
    The fact is that the energy of a machine gun shot is greater than that of an automatic gun.

    This is true when using the same sleeve. KPV - actually reassigned to a caliber of 14,5 mm automatic 20-mm gun Vladimirova V-20. The German MG-151/15 machine gun turned into the MG-151/20 cannon (the systems created on its basis are still used today). ShVAK grew in caliber from 12,7 to 20 mm.
    It is a pity that in 1938 they did not go along the path of creating a 20 mm munition in a 14,5x114 re-squeezed sleeve. “Thank you” to comrades Shpitalny and Taubin.
  13. Kibb
    Kibb April 13 2018 10: 47
    +5
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    The work of this plan was carried out independently in several countries. The German ancestor of M2, of course, was not.

    Of course not, comparing machine guns close to 0.5 "with CPV is not correct, nevertheless there is a machine gun that can be compared with it directly: ZB-60 (15mm Besa)
    They just forgot about him a long time ago, but the CPV shoots a lot (although I think that BESA can also be found)
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 13 2018 20: 55
      +1
      Quote: Kibb
      Of course not, comparing machine guns close to 0.5 "with CPV is not correct

      I do not compare. I wrote that the use of a large machine gun to combat airplanes was a common hobby during the WWII.

      As for Besa, in the 40s there were several such machine guns. Mg151 is probably more famous than others. But he is purely aviation.
      1. Kibb
        Kibb April 13 2018 22: 31
        0
        Well, you didn’t quite understand me, I just agreed with you. Maybe he didn’t put it right smile .
        MG151 / 15 with the Germans were on semi-artisanal or semi-industrial infantry machines (I don’t know what to call correctly - "homemade work on my knee" probably)
        Here is even 151/20, it seems, on the infantry "machine":
        However, 20mm is considered to be a gun
        And here is a completely industrial version:
        Well such a cart
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine April 14 2018 09: 44
          0
          Quote: Kibb
          And here is a completely industrial version

          Yes, I saw that. But this is handicraft, after all. I have not heard anything about the adoption of the MG into the armament of the infantry.
          By the way. The fact that such a device is used in the Russian and Chinese army, but all the others have refused it, is, as it were, a thought. If anyone, of course, has such a skill.
          1. Kibb
            Kibb April 16 2018 12: 25
            0
            The Germans simply didn’t have as good things with machine guns as it is customary to think - the infantry machine gun in all roles - the MG34 / MG42 is clumsy for separation, and weak for the battalion level - that is, the best company machine gun for that time. The rest was replaced by Czechoslovak, trophy, old maxims and “home-made knees” - that is, besides company machine guns, there were few others, frankly few
  14. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 13 2018 12: 34
    +3
    And in the second half of the 30-s of the last century, full-scale work began on the creation of weapons on the one hand, large caliber, on the other - rapid-fire.

    Much earlier.
    The question of creating a domestic heavy machine gun was raised by the USSR Revolutionary Military Council on October 27, 1925
    © Bolotin
    And in the same year, the development of the CCP began under the patronage of Vickers.
    And in 1928, comrades Kulik and Shaposhnikov signed a togament, according to which the Red Army is needed machine gun for battalions, artillery divisions, etc., weighing no more than 100 kg, without a shield, power - a metal tape of 50 rounds, armor penetration per kilometer - up to 15 mm at an angle of 30 degrees, or 20-22 mm normal. Caliber - about 14 mm.
    So the roots of the CPV grow already from the end of the 20s.
    Already in the middle of 1942, the High Command Headquarters set the task of creating a 14,5-mm machine gun for infantry. However, they could not find a solution to this problem.

    Oh-ho-ho ... actually, machine guns in the caliber of 14,5 mm appeared in the iron before the war. The first 14,5-mm machine gun was planned to be put into series by 1942.
    Moreover, SW. M. Svirin wrote that the production of 14,5 mm cartridges before the war was unfolding just for the CCP. But they did not have time to put the CCP in a series. However, the work was not in vain - the cartridges were useful for the PTR.
  15. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 13 2018 12: 42
    +2
    The tests of the machine gun were successful and, after agreement with the Commissariat of Defense, the plant received an order for the production of machine guns (KPV-44) and an anti-aircraft gun. For military tests required 50 machine guns and one charger. The trials began after the end of the war, in May 1945.

    Hehehehe ... these machine guns were supposed to be made back in June 1944. Production was controlled by the LPS. And then it began ...
    By the decision of Comrade Beria L.P. dated April 14, 1944 to the People’s Commissar of Armaments comrade Ustinov D.F. entrusted to manufacture and deliver GAU KA:
    1. 14,5 mm machine guns Vladimirov "KPV-44" 20 pcs. without installations, to ensure the experimental development of integrated anti-aircraft, tank, armored trains, etc. installations - by June 15, 1944
    2. 14,5 mm machine guns Vladimirov "KPV-44" 30 pcs. on single anti-aircraft installations, for military tests - by July 1, 1944
    However, to date, the plant number 2 has not passed the GAU KA, even the first batch of machine guns (without installations), as a result of which the actual experimental work is disrupted.
    I will forgive your assistance and the relevant NKV decrees on taking measures to ensure the implementation of the decision of Comrade Beria on the delivery of GAU KA 14,5 mm machine guns Vladimirov "KPV-44" in the shortest possible time.
    Please inform me of your decisions.
    CHIEF OF THE MAIN ARTILLERY
    MANAGEMENT
    Artillery Marshal Yakovlev
    5 September 1944 g
    © kris-reid
    What do you think - what happened next? The "bloody executioner" Beria arrived and shot everyone? Avotfig - no organizational conclusions, the deadlines have shifted to the right and then, not completely.
    On the issue: the delivery of a series of 14,5 mm machine guns KPV-44 on anti-aircraft installations.
    I am forced to agree with the deadline for the commissioning of KPV-44 at anti-aircraft installations, as defined by you on January 1, 1945.
    However, there are fears that this period by Plant No. 2 will not be fulfilled as well as the previously appointed dates.
    Inspection at the factory number 2 found that not all the installation details have been launched into production and the assembly of plants is extremely sluggish.
    Head of the GAU of the Red Army
    MARSHAL ARTILLERY
    Yakovlev
    29th of November 1944.
  16. Forever so
    Forever so April 13 2018 14: 16
    +4
    how Shakhrin sings - Don’t rush to bury him. It is in the anti-aircraft version that this machine gun will again come out on top in terms of cost of a shot and efficiency. Drones are now in the yard and no means are enough to drive mosquitoes with slippers. But the guidance system from Shilka and the trunks with cooling from KPVT and an excellent result. cheap and cheerful.
  17. bunta
    bunta April 13 2018 14: 37
    +7
    Figuratively speaking, if the PKK is “under-machine gun”, then the CPV will “be under-machine gun”.
  18. Dormidont
    Dormidont April 13 2018 16: 32
    +5
    Chic machine.
    He died on July 12, 1956 when disassembling the spring-loaded parts of a machine gun of his own design.
    No wonder. A special subject teacher showed us a funnel in the ceiling of a special class. It turns out that some individuals in the classroom removed the recoil pad from the CPV with the cocked shutter. The teacher barely managed to scatter idiots to the side before the CPV shutter slammed into the ceiling. All survived only by miracle
  19. chingachguc
    chingachguc April 13 2018 17: 54
    +2
    if you attach an electric motor with a transmission to such a ZPU-4, it will be the death of the infantry ... the main advantage is the density of fire, which can’t be hidden behind the wall ... and a low base to reduce damage
    1. Curious
      Curious April 13 2018 18: 30
      +3
      Why limit the flight of fancy. Go ahead, think big.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 13 2018 18: 58
        +4
        Quote: Curious
        Why limit the flight of fancy. Go ahead, think big.

        In addition to jokes: Max Popenker assures that in the bins of the Art Museum there is an 8-barrel 14,5 mm machine gun Slostin, designed for the requirements of the GAU from 1946. smile
        "Engineer Lieutenant Colonel Lysenko.
        Designer Slostin managed to well solve the idea of ​​creating a multi-barrel machine gun: a high rate of fire, the possibility of prolonged firing, and the compactness of the system. Refine this machine gun and use it as a means of reinforcement in the infantry. Try to make such a machine gun caliber 14,5 mm. Under it, you can create a good zen. installation.

        Engineer Captain Slutsky
        The tests were conducted well and made it possible to find out what is needed to make judgments about the combat and technical qualities of the Slostin machine gun. A high rate of fire depressingly affects the enemy (cites data from American and German sources). Accuracy of combat at 100 m R50 = 40 cm) can be accepted (provides data on the requirements for accuracy of combat of machine guns in the USA and Germany in 1945). Weight 28 kg, when compared with the Maxim machine gun, is not very large. Vitality can be decent. Reliability can also be improved. The machine gun allows 1500 rounds without cooling the trunks. This gives him a colossal combat rate of fire. Modify the machine gun. There is a place for its use immediately. As an amplification tool for infantry, it is indispensable, the experience of war speaks of this. The infantry loved to use the quad of Maxim, and this would be better than the quad. Make this machine gun chambered for 14,5 mm.

        Engineer Captain Kutsenko
        I agree with the opinion of T.T. Lysenko and Slutsky. For a 14,5mm caliber, it is unlikely to get good survivability. Sudden stopping the drum will adversely affect strength. But to get such a machine gun is very tempting - he has an appointment. The rate of fire for 14,5 mm needs to be maintained, like this 7,62 mm caliber.
        Tape - 250 rounds does not satisfy, you need a minimum of 500 (coupling).
        You can use a 7,62mm machine gun, but give it a good installation or a field machine (carry behind the machine). "
        © kris-reid
        deep in the bowels of the ArtMuseum lies the mentioned hellish machine gun Slostin 14.5mm caliber with 8 barrels
        Comrade Stalin’s main caliber
        © Max Popenker
        1. Curious
          Curious April 13 2018 19: 40
          +3
          Firstly, not in the bins, but in the exposition.
          1. Curious
            Curious April 13 2018 19: 46
            +1
            The machine gun was developed in two calibers - 7,62 mm and 14,5 mm.

            Those who are interested in Soviet small arms know about this machine gun.
            It is mentioned by Bolotin D. H. in the book "Soviet Small Arms." -
            M .: Military Publishing House, 1990.
            A detailed article about him can be found in the journal Kalashnikov in January 2008.
          2. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine April 14 2018 10: 02
            +1
            Quote: Curious
            Firstly, not in the bins, but in the exposition.


            WOW

            From Comrade Stalin to Comrade Schwarzenegger.
            1. Kibb
              Kibb April 14 2018 10: 21
              0
              Well this is not gatling. Smstem is generally different. And so on the IS7 in the early versions he was painted, then they put the CPV
  20. morved
    morved April 13 2018 19: 02
    0
    But is there something known about the staff of the units where the CPV was located?
    PKP - 1-2 platoons in a machine gun company of a rifle battalion is excluded when converted to motorized rifle
    ZPU-2 - anti-aircraft machine-gun company of two platoons of three installations in the rifle regiment. In motorized rifle regiments in the 60s, sometimes instead of ZPU-2 there were ZPU-4 with Zil-157 tractors.
    ZPU-4 - ?????
    BTR-40A - ??????
    BTR-152A (BTR-152E) - ??????
    ZU-2 - in the Airborne Forces, but in what units / formations and in what quantities?
  21. Mihail28
    Mihail28 April 13 2018 19: 47
    +3
    Quote: andrewkor
    But it is known that the head of the GAU, Marshal Kulik, in a panic from the dez about thick-armored German tanks, removed not only PTR but also ZiS-2 from service.

    In fact, they write differently about the reasons for stopping the production of ZiS-2: "This gun, developed under the direct supervision of V. G. Grabin, in 1940, was, at the time of mass production, the most powerful anti-tank gun in the world - so powerful that in 1941, the gun had no worthy goals, which led to its discontinuation (“due to excessive armor penetration” - quote), in favor of cheaper and more technologically advanced guns. However, with the advent of new heavy-armored German Tiger tanks in 1942 ", Production of ouro diya has been resumed. " Quote from Wikipedia.
    About PTR Rukavishnikov is also full of information. For example: "The main reason for this decision was that Rukavishnikov’s complex and time-consuming self-loading PTRs did not differ much in the number of machine hours of machine equipment and production costs from the significantly simpler 45mm anti-tank gun, significantly losing to the 45mm anti-tank projectile in armor penetration." When anti-tank guns were needed, they developed new PTRS and PTRD, and did not resume the production of Rukavishnikov’s PTR for completely objective reasons.
    Before the war with anti-tank weapons in the Red Army, everything was in order (in the sense of quantity). Another question is that the war did not start as planned, and there were huge losses of material stocks, including anti-tank weapons.
  22. Cannonball
    Cannonball April 13 2018 21: 59
    +1
    The fact is that the energy of a machine gun shot is greater than that of an automatic gun

    A highly controversial statement.
    For reference, muzzle kinetic energy:
    DShK-12,7 - 17,3 kJ;
    KPV-14,5 - 28,6 kJ; (for PTRS and PTRD of the same caliber - 31,2 kJ);
    TNSh-20 - 31,9 kJ;
    VYA-23 - 81 kJ;
    25 mm 72-K - 120 kJ.

    German 2-cm-FlaK, 2-cm-KwK - 54,3 kJ.

    Italian 20 mm da 20/65 mod. 35 - 47,3 kJ.

    Japanese 20 mm Type 97 - 50,9 kJ.

    "Cliff" is not particularly dragged into the infantry, 25 kg - it will be hard for a fighter.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 14 2018 09: 56
      +2
      Quote: Cannonball
      A highly controversial statement.
      For reference, muzzle kinetic energy:

      I, too, a little addicted.

      Then he thought that the authors, when they copied from somewhere, mixed up the muzzle energy and the maximum pressure in the barrel. Given the level of training they demonstrate, they are unlikely to distinguish between such things.
  23. shuravi
    shuravi April 14 2018 08: 57
    +1
    Quote: Narak-zempo
    Well, that’s right, her cartridge is a re-pressed 12,7 mm.



    12,7 with a hem.

  24. Cannonball
    Cannonball April 14 2018 20: 01
    0
    Quote: tyu22
    815 x 815 x 0,096 / 2/1000 = 31,9 kJ

    At ShVAK, the initial velocity of the projectile is not 815, but 750-790 m / s, the mass of the bullet is 91-99 g (see characteristics of the cartridge 20 × 99 mm R).
    Although in different sources the information on the characteristics of ShVAK varies. The only thing the sources agree on is that at ShVAK the power industry is clearly not enough for 20-mm guns.
  25. ventel
    ventel April 15 2018 08: 34
    +2
    tyu22,
    And despite the fact that if Russia was a developed country, it would not have economically lost the 1st World War. You know, when German economists arrived in the USSR in the 20s and got acquainted with the economy of the USSR, Stalin somehow asked how many years a country needs to be on par with Germany. What did they say to him 100 years old? Stalin asked if you can speed up the process. but you need to take a gun. And yes, I'm not young anymore.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 15 2018 15: 31
      0
      Quote: ventel
      And yes, I'm not young anymore.

      Strange, but believe in fairy tales.
      This is me about
      Quote: ventel
      possible but you need to take a gun

      There are probably stupid German economists. But the smart somehow did without the Nagans. L. Erhard, in particular.
      Quote: ventel
      how many years does a country need to be on par with Germany.

      It’s hard to say for the whole of Russia, but that part of it that the Nagans didn’t get is about 50 years old.
      https://knoema.ru/atlas/Германия/ВВП-на-душу-насе
      laziness
      https://knoema.ru/atlas/Финляндия/ВВП-на-душу-нас
      elenia
  26. Antokha NN
    Antokha NN April 15 2018 23: 30
    +2
    Quote: tyu22
    ZIS-3.
    + There were serial artillery cartridges.
    - The carriage was on. Under the gun had to redo the gun mount ZIS-2. Guns could do almost nothing throughout the war. Neither destroy a tank properly, nor destroy artillery shells with fragments. The gun for its more than modest performance characteristics was very expensive.

    Why is it a modest performance characteristics? For what year are they modest? For the 42nd, more than decent. The rate of fire is high, right up to 25 rounds per minute. Good RP-effect of the projectile. Good for 42 years of armor penetration, capable of breaking through virtually any armor of that time. Of course, she could not compete with the frontal armor of the Tigers, but with the earlier tanks and self-propelled guns, and with the side armor of the vaunted Tigers, the gun successfully fought until the end of the war. Or, do you think that some other guns stopped on the Kursk Bulge of the Tigers? After all, you yourself know that there were few "St. John's Wort", and PTR and 45mm PTP sho peas against the wall.
    Grabin himself claimed that this gun is light, reliable, convenient, technologically advanced and cheap!
    Quote: tyu22
    No special armor penetration ZIS-2 was not different. At the same time that the ZIS-2 was discontinued in the USSR (supposedly due to some outstanding armor penetration), PaK40 was put into serial production in Germany. The penetration of which was better than that of the ZIS-2.

    Dear, it seems that you are a little off topic. Let's go first. So, what were the tanks in service with the Wehrmacht and the Red Army? Correctly! The Wehrmacht was armed with tanks, which were enough for 45mm shells, and 76mm shells, even fired from the L-11, calmly coped with any of their armor. But the Germans had a fundamentally different problem! Such a problem, that often they had to bring direct-fire 88mm anti-aircraft guns to fight our KV and T-34. Therefore, their PAK-40 is a natural reaction to the current situation. Yes, they began to actively develop it already when in France they encountered French tanks with bulletproof armor, but they were allowed to flow only after the invasion of the USSR. And this moment cannot be discounted.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 16 2018 00: 08
      0
      Quote: Antokha NN
      Grabin himself claimed that this gun is light, reliable, convenient, technologically advanced and cheap!

      Did he happen to have any interest in her?
      Quote: Antokha NN
      up to 25 rounds per minute

      Circus number.
      Quote: Antokha NN
      Good HE shell effect

      Uh-huh.
      Quote: Antokha NN
      and with the onboard armor of the vaunted Tigers, the gun successfully fought until the end of the war

      The tiger 53-BR-350A did not penetrate from 100 meters. Reinforced forehead of the late fours and pieces too.
      Quote: Antokha NN
      Or, do you think that some other guns stopped on the Kursk Bulge of the Tigers?

      They were stopped by certain problems with the chassis, mainly. Mines, guns of all calibers.
      Quote: Antokha NN
      that the “Hypericum" was a little

      St. John's Wort (ISU-152) was not at all, this is a car of the 44th year. SU-152 were, but did not play a special role.
      Quote: Antokha NN
      And this moment cannot be discounted.

      In this you are more or less right. Another thing is that by the 42nd year the Germans basically fixed this joint.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 17 2018 14: 54
      +1
      Quote: Antokha NN
      Good for 42 years of armor penetration, capable of breaking through virtually any armor of that time.

      You forgot to add - theoretically. Because the tabular numbers of armor penetration BR-350A are pure Jacob de Mar.
      In practice, the BR-350A often cracked on the armor. And its production was extremely difficult.
      ... we take a solid cast, grind out a mushroom-shaped head and subject the case to uneven hardening so that the head is solid and breaks through the armor (collapsing at the same time), and the less hard, but less fragile chamber part ensures the passage of a burst charge beyond the armor. Here is such a difficult happiness of the technologist, which in the event of war will require millions of copies.
      © D. Shein
      On June 22.06.41, 350, the BR-1942A wasn’t even in the mechanized corps - as BBS there is “shrapnel to strike”. And even in XNUMX, these BBS were sorely lacking:
      In view of the lack of the required number of kamor armor-piercing shells in artillery units, the shooting of German tanks from 76,2-mm divisional guns with projectiles of other types is common ...
      © From the report “Defeat of the armor of German tanks”. July 1942 NII-48
      So the real armor penetration of the 76 mm divisional gun for 1942 is 35 mm per 200 m.
      3. Shrapnel is still one of the main armor-piercing shellssince it can penetrate up to 300 mm of armor at a firing range of up to 35 meters, which allows it to be successfully used against light tanks, and at close range (up to 200 m) and against the side armor of medium tanks ...

      Not from the good life of the USSR, in the most difficult time of the war, he began to put in series a new BR-350B and BR-350SP.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 17 2018 14: 58
      0
      Quote: Antokha NN
      Of course, she could not compete with the frontal armor of the Tigers, but with the earlier tanks and self-propelled guns, and with the side armor of the vaunted Tigers, the gun successfully fought until the end of the war.

      Oh ho ho ...
      The shelling of 82 mm of the side armor of the T-VI tank from the 76 mm F-34 tank gun from a distance of 200 meters showed that the armor-piercing shells of this gun are weak and, when they meet the tank’s armor, are destroyed without penetrating the armor.
      Caliber 76 mm shells also do not penetrate 100 mm of the frontal armor of the T-VI tank from a distance of 500 m.
      © Note by the Military Council of the Armored and Mechanized Forces of the Red Army on the test results of the German T-VI tank
      And more:
      ... the existing UBR-354B shot and entering the troops, equipped with the BR-350BSP shell (solid), under favorable conditions, is capable of penetrating the side armor of the Tiger tank at a distance of up to 100-200 m ...
  27. Antokha NN
    Antokha NN April 16 2018 18: 20
    +1
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Circus number.

    January 42nd. One of the artillery grounds. Test for the rate of fire of a new gun. Calculation tests were conducted under the command of Captain Tolkachev.
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    The tiger 53-BR-350A did not penetrate from 100 meters. Reinforced forehead of the late fours and pieces too.
    ... They were stopped by certain problems with the chassis, mainly. Mines, guns of all calibers.
    ... St. John's Wort (ISU-152) was not at all ...

    Didn’t even pierce a sub-caliber? Even three hundred meters? Here are the late fours, yes, their foreheads were strengthened, almost like a striped one, and I do not argue with that.
    Tigers in an arc everyone stopped. But the 76mm division was the only more or less acceptable argument in the positions. Not 45koy same fight with the Tiger.
    St. John's wort mean 152mm self-propelled guns. If the memory serves, the SU-152 had two regiments on the arc.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 16 2018 21: 05
      0
      Quote: Antokha NN
      January 42nd. One of the artillery grounds. Test for the rate of fire of a new gun. Calculation tests were conducted under the command of Captain Tolkachev.

      So I don’t argue that this is possible. Only in the "test for rate of fire" - is this a circus.
      Quote: Antokha NN
      Didn’t even pierce a sub-caliber?

      I would not have developed the theme of Soviet food calibers.
      Quote: Antokha NN
      But the 76mm division was the only more or less acceptable argument in the positions.

      I mean, damage the chassis? It is possible. To destroy? No. Take an interest in the losses of the Tigers in that battle. Returnable and irrevocable.
  28. Antokha NN
    Antokha NN April 16 2018 19: 52
    +1
    Quote: tyu22
    At least approximately specify what happened at the Wehrmacht in the summer of 1941.

    Dear, you would re-read the quote to which I replied to you, then there would be no questions on the time frame.
    Quote: tyu22
    Three-inch armor-piercing tolerance was only until May 1942. Then the Germans launched a series of more protected tanks.

    Good word "later." And how soon did they appear on the battlefields in droves? Just as they launched, so immediately immediately and redid everything? Or did they gradually modernize or capitalize the boxes that got to the plant, in view of the impossibility of their repair on site?
    In fact, for a long time the Germans still had to fight in old boxes, with insufficient armor and weapons.
    Quote: tyu22
    But the side armor of the Tigers, where was it to get? Or do you think the Tigers crews were somehow substituted?

    "Bags" were not invented by me. Ambushes too. Urban combat also had opportunities for firing on board, including and Tigers, from self-propelled ZIS-3.
    I also recall that, although not often, the T-34s left the battle with the Tigers as winners, breaking through their armor. I'm talking about the first versions of the T-34.
    Quote: tyu22
    Did you come up with this yourself? The fragmentation of their OFS wartime was approximately equal to the fragmentation of 57 mm OS pre-war production. Because they stuffed shells with all sorts of cheap muck. Officially.

    If you noticed, then I did not say that PF is good or excellent.
    Quote: tyu22
    You read Runet less. You’ll be smarter.
    37 mm “beater” on board coped perfectly with the blind T-34.
    With HF there were problems, their beater took poorly. But there were few of these HFs, they traveled poorly and lacked 47-50 mm Wehrmacht artillery.

    37mm? Thirty-four? belay "Soma to cut back" (c) wassat
    Are you familiar with the concept of "shell effect"? Tell us, please, what is it like for a 37mm shell, which managed to overcome 40mm side armor, which is also not quite right up to the vertical?
    And then, I'm afraid that now we get to the German PTR 28/20, piercing the armor of the HF with a cumulative shell laughing
    About HF. 50mm was short enough, and even then not always. Only the gun’s mask and the driver’s hatch. 75mm armor did not penetrate the little ones. The caterpillars tore. The rollers were damaged. Hinged tanks pierced. No armor.
    Add about KV: remember the historical battle of the company Kolobanov? Only four cars did so many things, the tank division was stopped and survived. But Kolobanov’s tank knocked out 22 tanks and a battery of 50mm guns. What praised PAK-38 did not pierce it? Although they shot!
    Well, okay with this fight, you can classify this fight as an accident (no), but well, the Germans suddenly urgently swooned to modify the PAK-40, if there was such a wonderful PAK-38 and smaller mallet that successfully (again not) coped with T-34 and KV? Maybe you should stop reading all sorts of fables in the internet?
    I also dare to recall that the main losses of tanks, especially the newest medium and heavy ones, in the first month of the war were not so much from enemy fire as from the complete absence of rear and from any interaction between the military branches. By rear, I mean supply of ammunition, fuel, repair, evacuation of damaged and broken vehicles from the battlefield, etc. By interaction I mean interaction, and not throwing tanks to slaughter in isolation from reconnaissance, infantry, artillery, aviation, and other things.
  29. Jmbg
    Jmbg April 17 2018 21: 13
    +2
    Thanks for this article. We in the ShZO in Plevna had one Vladimirov machine gun. Oh my god, he sweeps the parapet and kills the enemy in the trench! Until now, I did not know the history of this monstrous weapon.
  30. Antokha NN
    Antokha NN April 19 2018 20: 45
    +1
    Quote: tyu22
    But did it happen by itself? Or because of the actions of German tank groups?

    Due to the action of enemy tank groups, with the direct support of motorized infantry, artillery and aviation, and timely high-quality reconnaissance.
    Quote: tyu22
    Anti-tank artillery does not fight from ambushes. "Conscientious anti-tank artillery" was forced to fight from ambushes

    Quote: tyu22
    . You don't know anything about the 37 mm VET guns. Which completely took the T-34 on board.
    ... and a few more quotes can be cut ...
    You deny yourself. So only Soviet (although the whole war) or German artillery was forced to fight, at least in the 41-42th years?
    In general, you greatly exaggerate the capabilities of the German PTA during the start of the war. Yes, it is indisputable that the PAK-40 was an excellent anti-tank gun, but that was after the Wehrmacht met our newest tanks, which were often extremely difficult to stop. It was because of our tanks that the Germans accelerated the work of finalizing their guns, which they really needed on the battlefield.
    Quote: tyu22
    about the semi-mythical "battle of the company of Kalabanov,"

    And you read. Also read about the Soviet tank ace, Larionov, who destroyed 41 German tanks on the T-52 in 34m. Read about the battles near St. Petersburg and Moscow, where and how the KV and T-34 tanks were used, and how many losses they inflicted on the enemy, when used correctly. Explore the battle path of the fourth tank, which became the first guards tank, Katukov brigade. Also look at the photos of the damaged HF and try to calculate the number of hits in them.
    Quote: tyu22
    What for? Look at the performance characteristics of the beater. And then attach them to the 40-45 mm side armor of the T-34.

    Why watch the performance characteristics of small things if the Germans stopped releasing them at the beginning of the 42nd? The Germans are not fools, they did not refuse effective and reliable weapons. And what do these 30mm penetrations at 100m on inclined armor give? Only light can be effectively shot. And if the T-34 is pierced somewhere, then ... recall what is the armored effect of this projectile after penetrating through the side armor of the thirty-four? Well you did not answer this question.
    About the response to the increased armor, I agree, there was nothing up to the release of 85, and then 100mm anti-tank guns. And before that, I had to roll out 85mm anti-aircraft guns directly, like the Germans in 41-42m.
    Quote: tyu22
    And with old cannons, too. If we consider the M-42 and ZIS-3, then until the very end of the war.

    If I agree with ZIS-3, then by forty ... something in my memory was postponed that they had already been removed from armament at the end of the war, because there was already very little sense from them, like from the VET. Only armored personnel carriers, light tanks (which were almost gone), and cars were beaten. And on the battlefields the modernized T-3s, T-4s and the entire Hitlerite menagerie reigned for a long time, which were not yet all too tough for even 76mm cannons.
    Quote: tyu22
    And the Germans are fools, let's climb into these bags.

    And, nevertheless, these bags were not rare. Naturally, with our competent command. Moreover, this has been practiced since the 41st year. But remember the Sandemeer operation. It was something. The most experienced German commanders drove their tanks into our bags.
    Quote: tyu22
    Then you need to understand, the T-34/76 was designed and built as a medium infantry tank. This means that, as planned, there should not have been any enemy from the sides. And do not look around.

    But often tanks were thrown into battle in isolation from everything. But I talked about this above.
    Quote: tyu22
    I’d better tell you about the fuel tanks just on the sides, in the fenders.
    I’ll tell you about the oil tank, from which the tankers were most often non-smokers. And they smoke mostly in films.

    Tell me.
  31. Antokha NN
    Antokha NN April 19 2018 21: 06
    +1
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    I mean, damage the chassis? It is possible. To destroy? No. Take an interest in the losses of the Tigers in that battle. Returnable and irrevocable.

    Chassis, tanks, guns, board ... And the battlefield remained ours. Not a lot of damaged equipment the Germans were able to evacuate.
    Quote: tyu22
    Frontline troops no one ever covered. Just because the cover-ups are easy to cover with relatively light artillery.

    Why so? If we are still talking about 41m, then with artillery we are tense, hence the lack of “bombs”, hence 8,8 near the front line.
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    So I don’t argue that this is possible. Only in the "test for rate of fire" - is this a circus.

    It's not that there is a circus somewhere, but that it is possible. It is clear that the combat rate of fire is somewhat lower.
    Quote: Alexey RA
    On June 22.06.41, 350, the BR-1942A wasn’t even in the mechanized corps - as BBS there is “shrapnel to strike”. And even in XNUMX, these BBS were sorely lacking:

    There was a shortage, but there was no absence. But when using a 76mm shell of a different type, according to the main German tanks (basically they were light tanks, wedges and armored personnel carriers), the armor made its way relatively easily.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 20 2018 09: 22
      0
      Quote: Antokha NN
      And the battlefield is ours. Not a lot of damaged equipment the Germans were able to evacuate.

      This is another IMHO, or did you look at the numbers?
      Quote: Antokha NN
      It's not that there is a circus somewhere, but that it is possible. It is clear that the combat rate of fire is somewhat lower.

      You are not in context. Rate of Fire 25 Americans indicated for their anti-aircraft five-inch with separate manual loading. Also shown in exercises. ZiS-3 did not hear about the overwhelming firepower. I heard about 25 pounds, but not about it.
  32. Antokha NN
    Antokha NN 5 May 2018 14: 34
    0
    Quote: tyu22
    What for? Look at the performance characteristics of the beater. And then attach them to the 40-45 mm side armor of the T-34.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NEVezO72po историк на 1ч35мин приводит аргумент не в пользу колотушек. Как думаете, он прав в отношении выбивания гильзы шомполом?
  33. Eget54
    Eget54 6 July 2018 10: 16
    0
    we shot from the CPVTesh cartridge on targets from a supplementary barrel.
    hello to the machine gunners from the tank!