Reusable space: promising projects of US spacecraft

Comments

[Sirocco]

I think that we will never know about the real goals of the American space program, it’s top secret, and guessing on the coffee grounds is not a thankful task,
My opinion is that in vain we supply them with engines, thereby untying their hands in solving problems in space in another direction, let them puzzle how they fly today.
Well, and most importantly, I am surprised by the persistence with which they are pushing Musk and Co., isn't this just part 2 of SDI? ))))) It's no secret that everything that is promising and profitable is a secret, a taboo, and then private business has pulled itself together, like a jack-in-the-box, not every country can handle a space program, and the genius Musk mastered the space program from scratch, in a "couple" of years and went for it, well, this is not serious, and God forbid our people decide to involve businessmen in this topic, then it's kaput for Roscosmos, and Russia as a space power. So, all this flood with Musk is somehow annoying, not everything is as simple as it seems. You can compare this situation with a beautiful blonde, and her figure is beautiful, and her face, and she is dressed beautifully, but when she opens her mouth, she spews ... with her tongue)))))

[Mussasi]

We already had businessmen who wanted to launch their own rockets. Roscosmos, as a monopolist, naturally did not allow this. Therefore, all these enterprising people not only left, they went to the States and there help people like Elon Musk.

[AUL]

Quote: Mussashi

We already had businessmen who wanted to launch their own rockets. Roscosmos, as a monopolist, naturally did not allow this. Therefore, all these enterprising people not only left, they went to the States and there help people like Elon Musk.

Could you tell me more about these businessmen of ours? A link of some sort? Because this is a very dubious statement.

[Mussasi]

Quote from AUL

Quote: Mussashi

We already had businessmen who wanted to launch their own rockets. Roscosmos, as a monopolist, naturally did not allow this. Therefore, all these enterprising people not only left, they went to the States and there help people like Elon Musk.

Could you tell me more about these businessmen of ours? A link of some sort? Because this is a very dubious statement.

Give you a link for each question. Yes, there is none, it’s all going for the largest.
And so, for example, you can type in Google "Russian private cosmonautics" and find out a lot.

[Dead duck]

Quote: Sirocco

and the genius Musk from scratch, mastered the space program, for a couple of years and poper

Yeah, only the naive believe in these tales ...
magically, he suddenly found himself with the necessary specialists from closed "into the quiet" companies, as well as the necessary technologies and enterprises.
But this is all by accident, he’s just a marketing genius and a showman.

[voyaka uh]

"magically, he suddenly turned out to be the right specialists" ////

Why is there magic? He offered specialists breakthrough interesting topics,
creative freedom. And high salaries in addition.
Those who were fired by NASA, who are tired of Lockheed's established hierarchies and
Boeing switched to an interesting high-paying job.

[Dead duck]

Quote: voyaka uh

He offered specialists breakthrough interesting topics,
freedom of creativity.

everything is much more interesting there ...
even in western sources they notice it.
he was simply connected to the project as a good showman and manager.
and specialists who are needed by everyone and do not always get fired or shut down firms that are needed for the industry.
Tales of garages and knees, on which everything is done no longer pass.
"After all, if the stars are lit, then does anyone need this?"

[EnGenius]

SpaceX is an attempt to influence the cartel of traditional American corporations in order to stimulate a reduction in prices there, which the US government can hardly pay. For this, Musk was provided with all the necessary accompanying information - technological, material science, medical and biological. Naturally, all this was "transferred" from the state agency NASA, the rest was taken from commercial patents, for which the term of ownership of the copyright holders had expired.

[voyaka uh]

"Naturally, all this was" transmitted "from the NASA state agency" ///

NASA has opened all its secrets for EVERYONE. Old-timers from Roscosmos
can also go to the NASA website and take secrets (English only
need to understand ).

[FIFA from Cardiff]

How many groans, sobs, squeals around super-duper mask devices, which are reusable and super-duper load-bearing, etc., HOWEVER, demand determines supply, including in space, and demand is tight these days
1- there is no need to launch heavy missiles because there are no heavy loads
2 - there is no need for reusable systems because there is no such massive demand for launches.
We have already tested the concept of reusability on our own skin on shuttles, and the benefits from it are not at all obvious - well, the mask of 8 out of 10 engines was well lowered without breaking to the surface, and then what?
1- it is necessary to return those engines to the base for revision and preparation for the next launch
2- part of the components of those engines 100% will have hidden defects that will sooner or later emerge on the next Challenger

[andrewkor]

And yet, you must admit that the Space Shuttle program has fulfilled its task, although not without costs, in addition, a breakthrough in technologies with the transfer of these to the ground has recaptured some of these costs.

[ares1988]

As far as I remember, it was not the FH + Dragon v2 sheaf that was certified for manned flights, i.e. for flying around the moon. And certification of F9 + Dragon v2 for flights to the ISS remains in the plans.

[Blackmokona]

That's right, certification for manned flights on the F-9, on the contrary, is called the highest priority for which all forces will be thrown.

[Letnab]

Interestingly, it looks very similar to one of our, still Soviet developments. And taking into account the words of test pilot M.O. Tolboev that foreigners settled in the Gromov LII, it turns out that our development is now with the Americans ...

[Dead duck]

Quote: Letnab

looks very similar to one of our, still Soviet developments

Kit"...
http://www.buran.ru/htm/bors.htm
And the program "Spiral" was.

[Simple]

We got from the bottom of the ocean.
The project was revived twice in the USA.

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: Letnab

it turns out our development is now with the Americans ...

it if they bought a spiral in monino and would be taken away to the USA, it turned out
Here is a purely American development.
Work on flying vehicles with load-bearing enclosures in the USA was carried out in the 60s-70s. Even here on the site there was a series of articles about that thing.
Naturally, the developers could not ignore the results on the launches of Bor-s, which is quite logical.

[Pacifist]

Dream Chaser is an exact copy of the "Spiral" of Lozino-Lozinsky. Only the landing scheme was conceptually changed, the runners were changed to wheeled chassis, and so was a complete redundancy.

[AUL]

Yes, you can immediately see a great specialist! I looked at the photo - and immediately determined that it was an exact copy! Probably, he knows thoroughly both the structure of the "Spiral" and this device. According to this logic, the "Buran" is an exact copy of the "Shuttle", the Tu-144 is an exact copy of the Concorde, and the Mercedes is an exact copy of the Volga (only the radiator grille scheme has been conceptually changed).

[Kir]

AUL with the Tu-144 Mahu Dali, since the 144th had previously taken off (which means the Concord is a “copy of the Tu-144), and even surpassed the British Frenchman in a number of decisions, regarding the rest, then considering how much time the people there stayed with us and how in fact, from scratch (if you believe the "true" history of the emergence of US private traders) they created flying patterns, then here Obviously Strongly that side does not agree on who and on the basis of which their patterns were made.

[Arikkhab]

Why is this "Tu-144 - an exact copy of Concord"? There is an external resemblance, but the planes are quite different (a different arrangement of engines already eliminates the “exact copy”)

[Usher]

Shuttle and Buran are visually different, and Concorde and Tu-144, so don't bother here speak outThis is a licked Spiral. 1 in 1.

[AUL]

Yes of course. It just seems to me that when comparing two samples, first of all, understanding people do not look at the appearance, but at the filling, functionality and parameters. And appearance ... So the laws of aerodynamics are the same everywhere, that then in the USSR, now in the USA.

[Kir]

AUL, the filling It makes no sense to compare, especially since how much time has passed, so it makes sense to compare Aerodynamics, Maneuverability (the shuttle in this vein has given way to our Space) and Materials, at least how they could solve the problem of heat-protective tiles (in Buran they couldn’t be cool).

[Wims]

Duck blizzard was created as a copy of the shuttle on the instructions of the party, despite the fact that our scientists immediately said that it was not promising and very expensive.

[arkadiyssk]

Buran is not even close to a copy of the Shuttle, but a pathetic attempt at cosplay. All that unites them is their appearance, although in fact the Shuttle had engines that pulled the entire rocket up, and Buran only had maneuverable ones (well, we couldn't make compact cruise engines that would fit in the Buran), so the entire structure was lifted up by Energia. So Buran turned out to be golden and unliftable even for the USSR.

[AUL]

Kir
In addition, I wrote my first post. The man saw in the photo external the similarity (undoubtedly very large) with the Spiral and hastened to declare that it was an “exact copy” and a “complete redundancy”. For such a statement, you need to know thoroughly how the device and parameters of the Spiral, and the device and parameters of the staff apparatus. I don’t think that the author has sufficient knowledge of one and the other. And judging by the similarities in the photo is, as it were, softer to say, not too reasonable.
PS And do not convince me of the difference between Buran and Shuttle, Concord and Tu. I wrote:

By this logic, Buran is an exact copy of the Shuttle, Tu-144 is an exact copy of Concord, and Mercedes is an exact copy of the Volga

[Kir]

I’m talking about something else - that ours was, and in many respects, better than our foreign counterpart.

[Kir]

This "pathetic" attempt exceeded the United States in terms of thermal protection, and weak engines ensured greater maneuverability in space, plus it had a fully automatic landing, which the locals did not have.
The shuttle is a single system, but we had, to some extent, a More Intelligent System - a super-heavy rocket + the ability to launch any type of load.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

the shuttles could land in automatic mode; moreover, almost all landings in the predominantly automatic one passed, and the astronauts only let out the landing gear. I’ll leave the rest of the Urya Tryndezh on your conscience.

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: Pacifist

Dream Chaser is an exact copy of the "Spiral" of Lozino-Lozinsky. Only the landing scheme was conceptually changed, the runners were changed to wheeled chassis, and so was a complete redundancy.

far from accurate
and even more
absolutely not a copy
but has similar aerodynamic contours
something like sedan cars.

[donavi49]

The article is not very complete.

We forgot about the Boeing Starliner - which flies first (July-August and if the test flight is considered successful, in November 4 astronauts will arrive for the first time on the ISS not on the Union).


They also forgot about the Bezos system (who is now the richest man in the world and quietly finances his own space program without any PR) - the most progressive in terms of orbital flights and tourism.

[shinobi]

Not that, all this is interesting, but not that! The dead-end branch has been developed. No one has removed the main cost of starting up in a vertical start, so two steps to the trash! And this is the main price of starting up. And we don’t have to stupidly chase behind them. There are wonderful designs by Myasishchev Design Bureau, from the last century, and the future lies behind them.

[AUL]

Quote: shinobi

Not that, all this is interesting, but not that! The dead-end branch has been developed. No one has removed the main cost of launching in a vertical launch, so no one removed. Two steps to the trash! And this is the main price of starting.

You explain it to the Mask, otherwise he, stupid, saves the first steps and drives him into a new space. Here you go!

[Setrac]

Quote from AUL

You explain it to the Mask, otherwise he, stupid, saves the first steps and drives him into a new space. Here you go!

The salvation of steps is indeed a dead end branch of development. It is necessary to develop in the direction of reducing the number of steps, and in the future, to single-stage reusable devices.

[Falcon5555]

Everything cosmic must be reusable - this is obvious.

[Arikkhab]

And do not the Soyuz-series descent vehicles be used repeatedly?

[voyaka uh]

Disposable - landed disposed of.
And build a new one.

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: ArikKhab

And do not the Soyuz-series descent vehicles be used repeatedly?

no!
although the ship was designed and tested with the possibility of 10-fold use in the series did not go, because all the forces were thrown on Buran.
Well, the current RF is not up to it.

[Old26]

Quote: Sirocco

I think that we will never know about the real goals of the American space program, it’s top secret, and guessing on the coffee grounds is not a thankful task,

Well, part of the programs, of course, is "grooved." For the same X-37 minimum information. About missions generally almost complete zero

Quote: Sirocco

My opinion is that in vain we supply them with engines, thereby untying their hands in solving problems in space in another direction, let them puzzle how they fly today.

I would agree with this thesis, but alas, the number of flights on RD-180 engines does not exceed 20%. In 2017 there were 5 Atlas-5 launches with this engine and one Antares-230 launch with the RD-181 engine. Total approximately 24% (7 out of 29)
For 2018, Americans are planning to launch 42 carriers, of which 7 are Atlases and 2 are Antares. again the same 21%. that is one fifth. So they don’t have to rack their brains ...

Quote: Sirocco

Well, and most importantly, I am surprised by the persistence with which they are pushing Musk and Co., isn't this just part 2 of SDI? ))))) It's no secret that everything that is promising and profitable is a secret, a taboo, and then private business has pulled itself together, like a jack-in-the-box, not every country can handle a space program, and the genius Musk, from scratch, mastered the space program, in a "couple" of years and went for it, well, this is not serious, and God forbid our people decide to involve businessmen in this topic, then it's kaput for Roscosmos, and Russia as a space power. So, all this flood with Musk is somehow annoying, not everything is as simple as it seems.

NASA went down the road when it stopped pulling a blanket over itself, raking under itself all the space programs. And it would not hurt our Roscosmos to launch private traders on the market while they are still there.

Quote: Mussashi

We already had businessmen who wanted to launch their own rockets. Roscosmos, as a monopolist, naturally did not allow this. Therefore, all these enterprising people not only left, they went to the States and there help people like Elon Musk.

The LIN Industrial company still exists. As long as

Quote from AUL

Quote: Mussashi

We already had businessmen who wanted to launch their own rockets. Roscosmos, as a monopolist, naturally did not allow this. Therefore, all these enterprising people not only left, they went to the States and there help people like Elon Musk.

Could you tell me more about these businessmen of ours? A link of some sort? Because this is a very dubious statement.

http://spacelin.ru/proekty/sverkhlegkaya-raketa-t
aymyr /
It can be easier. Google the name "Ultralight Taimyr, Adler, Aldan" launch vehicle

Quote: Pacifist

Dream Chaser is an exact copy of the "Spiral" of Lozino-Lozinsky. Only the landing scheme was conceptually changed, the runners were changed to wheeled chassis, and so was a complete redundancy.

Well, since it’s not skiing, but wheels, it’s not a complete redistribution. In addition, we are talking exclusively about the appearance. And what is inside is still unknown. Yes, they are similar to each other, but the same Buran in one of its variants was very similar to a shuttle, and the TU-144 was similar to Concorde. It looks like, but not a complete copy. so here

Quote: shinobi

Not that, all this is interesting, but not that! The dead-end branch has been developed. No one has removed the main cost of starting up in a vertical start, so two steps to the trash! And this is the main price of starting up. And we don’t have to stupidly chase behind them. There are wonderful designs by Myasishchev Design Bureau, from the last century, and the future lies behind them.

And there is no other yet. There are no VKS, starting from the airfield, no reusable missiles, as they were painted talking about the future. use what is achievable so far ...

Quote: ArikKhab

And do not the Soyuz-series descent vehicles be used repeatedly?

No. They are disposable. On the Chelomeevsky truck, we tried several times to use reentry vehicles, but there they were unmanned

[AUL]

Old26 , Thanks for the link. Somehow I was not aware of these matters.

[Mussasi]

There is also Cosmocourse; they recently received a license for this activity from Roscosmos.
[media = http: // http: //www.cosmocourse.com/]
[media = http: // http: //fastsalttimes.com/sections/c
ompany / 1161.html]

[evil partisan]

Of course, I understand everything: reusable flights and all that. But who the hell will take responsibility for the control of the same return stages?? And there is a ton of work for defectoscopes, taking into account the specifics of the "products". And they may not be facing Magadan, but something similar in the same States. Maybe all this (NC) has already been reduced to the level of ordinary technological processes. God willing! But I strongly doubt it...

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: Angry Guerrilla

But who the pancake will take responsibility for the control of the same returned steps ??

who-who?
obviously, the manufacturer
or do you want to find out which cantor will be "Comrade Major" who is closely watching the work of defectologists from the private shop of charlatans?

[lazy]

the biggest problem with reusable ships is that, say, company X produced 10 ships in 10 years for the state, which will then be used for 20 years, and company X what to do for 20 years and what to live on? when you can rivet disposable rockets for 30 years and have stable income

[Jo Swar Htet]

How does reusable operation (launch vehicle) affect engine life and structural life?